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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Panic At The Disco

Panic At The Disco

by Zandar|  November 13, 201510:03 am| 185 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Republicans in Disarray!, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome, Nobody could have predicted

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Speaking of Trump tirades and GRAIN-STORING PYRAMID, it’s time to check in with BuzzFeed writer Ivor Tossell’s “Five Stages Of Trump” tweet once again.

5 stages of Trump thinkpiece: 1. Ha Ha, Trump 2. Why Trump Can’t Win 3. Explaining Trump 4. We Must Respect Real America 5. Oh God, Oh God

— Ivor Tossell (@ivortossell) July 25, 2015

Hello, Stage Five!

Less than three months before the kickoff Iowa caucuses, there is growing anxiety bordering on panic among Republican elites about the dominance and durability of Donald Trump and Ben Carson and widespread bewilderment over how to defeat them.

Party leaders and donors fear that nominating either man would have negative ramifications for the GOP ticket up and down the ballot, virtually ensuring a Hillary Rodham Clinton presidency and increasing the odds that the Senate falls into Democratic hands.

The party establishment is paralyzed. Big money is still on the sidelines. No consensus alternative to the outsiders has emerged from the pack of governors and senators running, and there is disagreement about how to prosecute the case against them. Recent focus groups of Trump supporters in Iowa and New Hampshire commissioned by rival campaigns revealed no silver bullet.

In normal times, the way forward would be obvious. The wannabes would launch concerted campaigns, including television attack ads, against the ­front-runners. But even if the other candidates had a sense of what might work this year, it is unclear whether it would ultimately accrue to their benefit. Trump’s counterpunches have been withering, while Carson’s appeal to the base is spiritual, not merely political. If someone was able to do significant damage to them, there’s no telling to whom their supporters would turn, if anyone.

Dr. Heckle and Mr. Jive here haven’t just upended the apple cart, they’ve set it on fire and are throwing flaming apples at everyone they can find. They’ve taken the bread and circuses grift to the endpoint and everyone’s all stunned to see that in the era of reality show politics that the hooting masses love the guys that aren’t supposed to have any chance of winning.

Oh, and there’s this.

According to other Republicans, some in the party establishment are so desperate to change the dynamic that they are talking anew about drafting Romney — despite his insistence that he will not run again. Friends have mapped out a strategy for a late entry to pick up delegates and vie for the nomination in a convention fight, according to the Republicans who were briefed on the talks, though Romney has shown no indication of reviving his interest.

And the Republicans will look up and shout, “Save us!”

And Mitt Romney will look down and whisper “47 percent.”

Oh well, I guess those sidelined mega-donors will have to console themselves with all the local, state, and House races that they’ve bought over the last five years. I’m sure they’ll be okay even if they don’t win the White House.

The rest of us?  Well…not so much.

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Reader Interactions

185Comments

  1. 1.

    JPL

    November 13, 2015 at 10:06 am

    The big money will support the Republican nominee…………

  2. 2.

    redshirt

    November 13, 2015 at 10:07 am

    At last!
    We will defeat the Republican Establishment
    and we. will. know. peace.

  3. 3.

    Poopyman

    November 13, 2015 at 10:08 am

    I’ve been saying for months it’ll be Mitt, whether he wins a single primary or not. I wonder how much rule-breaking the Establishment can get away with and not have the whole process descend into chaos.

    Oh, wait ….

  4. 4.

    Mudge

    November 13, 2015 at 10:09 am

    I haven’t seen it anywhere yet (no in depth search) but Dr. Ben, who has inside information from secret sources that “the Chinese are in Syria”, has undoubtedly been talking with God again.

  5. 5.

    dmsilev

    November 13, 2015 at 10:12 am

    @Poopyman: That would literally fracture the GOP (not that that is such a bad thing…). Trump and Carson represent two of the main segments of the GOP base, the Angry White Men and the evangelicals. If the third segment, Big Money, pulls a rule-bending fast one to shut out the other two, those voting blocs are not going to just meekly line up behind the Romneybot 3000. They tolerated him last time because he did actually win all those primaries and had a legitimate claim to the nomination, but a “smoke-filled-rooms” nomination? Forget about it.

  6. 6.

    HinTN

    November 13, 2015 at 10:12 am

    Tommy – The mobile site is stuck at Still Alive

  7. 7.

    Amir Khalid

    November 13, 2015 at 10:18 am

    I agree with Ivor Tossell. That’s why I’m leery of any prediction that Trump is gonna bite it in the primaries, you’ll see. What if he don’t, man? What then?

  8. 8.

    Schlemazel

    November 13, 2015 at 10:23 am

    @Poopyman:
    That would be great if it happened! I think the Taliban and the nutballs would each want to run a different candidate of their own. the only thing that would make me happier than a Mitt/Carson/Dumpster 3-way against the Dem would be if the splitters ran Congressional candidates too. There is not enough marinara in the world to cover the noodly appendages I would be honoring if that happened.

  9. 9.

    geg6

    November 13, 2015 at 10:24 am

    And Trump is throwing it out there that the black guy he’s running against is incurably violent. Like a child molester.

    Jeebus. I’ve never seen anything like this primary in my life. And I’ve seen a lot.

  10. 10.

    Bill

    November 13, 2015 at 10:26 am

    There is almost no chance Romney jumps in and becomes the nominee. It’s highly unlikely he can get on the ballot in key states (some filing deadlines have already passed). And a brokered convention with Mitt walking away the winner is fantasy.

    Trump and Carson are doing well because the “base” hates establishment Republicans. They’ve been told for decades that they should expect a Randian paradise from anyone with an R after their name, and the R’s have failed to deliver. Right now Mitt is the poster child for their disappointment. They’re ready to burn the place down to get what they want. If the moneyed elite work a back room deal to get Mitt the nomination, the pitchforks and torches are coming out. The Republican party would cease to exist.

    Establishment Republicans will continue to look for a way to undermine Trump and Carson. If they can’t find one, you can bet your ass the money will get behind whoever the base picks.

  11. 11.

    Schlemazel

    November 13, 2015 at 10:27 am

    @Amir Khalid:
    It will be interesting to see if he is still in it after New Hampshire. Once there are only 3-4 serious contenders having 25% of the vote is not going to win many primaries. I’d expect State parties, particularly those with only a caucus system, to push hard for a ‘favorite son’ or non-committed with the thought being they could leverage that as power during a split convention.

    A bloody fight at the RNC would be a thing of beauty and a joy to warm the 2016 winter

  12. 12.

    debbie

    November 13, 2015 at 10:29 am

    @Bill:

    I agree. I think Romney, even more than any other “establishment” candidate, would guarantee the RWNJs will either stay home or try for a third party.

  13. 13.

    Germy Shoemangler

    November 13, 2015 at 10:30 am

    interview with the woman who read her book during the Trump rally.

    “I’m genuinely not interested in [Trump] as a person, but if you have the chance to see a presidential candidate, why not?” Idusuyi said.

    She and some friends ended up with a spot directly behind the Republican candidate after seeing an open seat and being invited into the VIP section by a campaign staffer.

    “I think we were chosen for obvious reasons,” Idusuyi told Jezebel. “We are minorities and there weren’t a lot of minorities there. He also instructed us to sit in the middle, so we kind of already knew what this was.”

    Idusuyi insisted she went into the rally with an open mind, but she took out her book and began reading after Trump demanded the removal of some protesters, and she said supporters cheered after a supporter removed a woman’s Obama hat and tossed it into the crowd.

    “I thought, ‘That’s bullying, that’s aggressive,’” she said. “I don’t think Trump handled it with grace. I thought, ‘Oh, you’re really not empathetic at all.’ That’s when the shift happened.”

  14. 14.

    EconWatcher

    November 13, 2015 at 10:31 am

    I don’t know, I remember the 2012 cycle well enough that I’m not that impressed with the craziness just yet.

    Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, and Newt Gingrich all had their day in the sun back then.

    I’ll grant you that Trump and Carson seem to be displaying a little more hang time. But no vote has yet been cast.

    I think it’ll be the same result: A rollercoaster of wackiness, after which a relatively mainstream figure emerges, but damaged from the process.

  15. 15.

    Germy Shoemangler

    November 13, 2015 at 10:32 am

    @geg6:

    And Trump is throwing it out there that the black guy he’s running against is incurably violent. Like a child molester.

    the morning TV news shows played some brief clips of that trump speech, and it looked and sounded like the crowd sat in stunned silence, like some middle school kids being scolded by the principal. But I know the tv news loves to selectively edit.

    Does anyone know if his speech went over well? It seemed really over the top, even for trump…

  16. 16.

    Botsplainer

    November 13, 2015 at 10:33 am

    Needs more cowbell.

  17. 17.

    Schlemazel

    November 13, 2015 at 10:33 am

    @Bill:
    The money, like the morons, does not believe the crazies will actually try to do the stuff they say they will do. They should ask Junkers, Siemens, Krupp and Farben how that worked out for them after 1932

  18. 18.

    NonyNony

    November 13, 2015 at 10:35 am

    Trump apparently decided to try to bring the knives out for Carson and in doing so managed to call Iowa Republicans “stupid” (while he was in Iowa) and fumble with his pants while “re-enacting” Carson’s belt-buckle stopping a knife scenario. Kevin Drum created a hilarious GIF of Trump fumbling with his pants that will likely cause me nightmares.

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/11/strain-losing-ben-carson-has-finally-driven-donald-trump-crazy"

    Anyhoo – this is the umpteenth time that Trump has done something that has pundits quoting Bullwinkle J Moose about how he’s going down, and yet every time they’ve got the wrong hat. We’ll see if this one sticks – if Trump is really lashing out because he’s “dropping” in the polls then there is no amount of popcorn in the world that will be able to supply me for my schadenfreude binge as he flames out and takes as many of the rest of the clown car out with him as he falls.

  19. 19.

    max

    November 13, 2015 at 10:38 am

    And Mitt Romney will look down and whisper “47 percent.”

    MITT! MITT! C’mon MITT! You know you want to!

    max
    [‘Finish the death of the House of Bush.’]

  20. 20.

    JPL

    November 13, 2015 at 10:39 am

    @Amir Khalid: I think Trump explodes on stage. He’ll walk off and say the American people don’t deserve him.

  21. 21.

    geg6

    November 13, 2015 at 10:40 am

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    He kept saying, “How stupid are the people of Iowa?” Normally, I would expect they’d be insulted by that but I don’t know about that any more.

  22. 22.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 10:42 am

    @debbie: Romney, yes. Two time loser, once to the black guy, once to the woman.

    But others at LGM have mentioned Paul Ryan. I think the media would give him a disgustingly huge tongue bath, if he came out of a brokered convention. So I am hoping not to see a brokered convention.

  23. 23.

    benw

    November 13, 2015 at 10:43 am

    @JPL: as far as the big money is concerned there’s not an electron microscope in the world that can detect a difference between the Republicans, whether or not a giant wall gets built or the pyramids are airlifted to the US and filled with grain. The money will still get shoveled to the top as fast as their grubby mitts can fly.

  24. 24.

    dedc79

    November 13, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Did you mean: Panic! At the Disco?

    (Can’t stand that band, btw)

  25. 25.

    Just One More Canuck

    November 13, 2015 at 10:47 am

    @HinTN: For me it’s stuck at Adam Silverman’s post from 830 last night (“a Dustbowl…”)

  26. 26.

    Germy Shoemangler

    November 13, 2015 at 10:47 am

    @geg6: animated gif from that speech.
    What will future historians make of us?

  27. 27.

    ThresherK

    November 13, 2015 at 10:48 am

    @Germy Shoemangler: This is amazing.

    Except for BJers, my cat can’t jump on my keyboard without finding threads full of smarmy self-styled “independents” who rationalize supporting everything right-wing, Tea and authoritarian.

    And they cling to the fantasy that they’re open-minded*.

    But this woman really seems to have walked the walk on giving Trump a chance.

    (*PS This is the mythical moderate voter NPR keeps trying to appeal to.)

  28. 28.

    Germy Shoemangler

    November 13, 2015 at 10:50 am

    Socialism vs. Capitalism

  29. 29.

    Poopyman

    November 13, 2015 at 10:50 am

    dmsilev: ” but a “smoke-filled-rooms” nomination? Forget about it. ”

    Bill: “There is almost no chance Romney jumps in and becomes the nominee. It’s highly unlikely he can get on the ballot in key states (some filing deadlines have already passed). And a brokered convention with Mitt walking away the winner is fantasy.”

    Not a vote in this election cycle has yet been cast, and we’ve seen some shit that hasn’t been seen in US politics in my lifetime, if ever. This is what the messy death of a political party looks like. Nothing is fantasy anymore.

  30. 30.

    Poopyman

    November 13, 2015 at 10:52 am

    Hey! The Back button takes me to the last comment I was reading!

    Yay Tommy, Alain, et al!

  31. 31.

    cmorenc

    November 13, 2015 at 10:54 am

    @Bill:

    If the moneyed elite work a back room deal to get Mitt the nomination, the pitchforks and torches are coming out. The Republican party would cease to exist.

    You speak of this as if it would be a bad thing. However, what would follow from the ashes of the GOP is less certain – in what form might the monster regenerate and from where might it summon its strength, such as the GOP did after the Goldwater disaster in 1964?

    Also, if the democrats are gifted with such an electoral chance, would we be able to use it wisely this time to effect a fundamental realignment in our favor? Even a three to five % realignment of the electorate would have huge political consequences.

  32. 32.

    eric

    November 13, 2015 at 10:55 am

    @catclub: this. I have been saying this for weeks. he is culturally conservative and fiscally conservative (read “conservatice” = “RWNJ”). The press likes him. the GOP just blew him. He can carry a swing state (read “swing state” = “media”).

  33. 33.

    satby

    November 13, 2015 at 10:55 am

    OK, I know you’re all excited by having numbers back, but the numbers-names-names quoted-quote fonts a different size-blue lines= bleh… it’s a borderline unreadable mess. TheotherChuck has been doing heroic work with his style sheets, but it’s been nearly a full-time job keeping up with all the tweaking, I’m sure.
    Is readability just too much to ask for a blog that you, you know, READ?

  34. 34.

    JPL

    November 13, 2015 at 10:56 am

    OT.. Dave Weigel is watching a Jeb event and has this on his twitter

    Jeb! on how he’s battle-tested: “I’ve got scars on my rear end and on my head.” Me, quietly: “Rear end?”

    wtf

  35. 35.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 10:56 am

    @Amir Khalid: Then we whip his as.

  36. 36.

    eric

    November 13, 2015 at 10:56 am

    @JPL: was this jeb or vitter?

  37. 37.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 10:57 am

    @Poopyman: And I’ve enjoyed a sentimental reunion with the little scrollbar button that was invisible for so many days. Welcome back, friend!

  38. 38.

    Thoughtful Today

    November 13, 2015 at 10:57 am

    !

    Sanders v. Trump has Sanders winning by wide poll margins.

  39. 39.

    Roger Moore

    November 13, 2015 at 10:58 am

    @Mudge:

    Dr. Ben, who has inside information from secret sources that “the Chinese are in Syria”, has undoubtedly been talking with God again.

    Those voices in his head are not God.

  40. 40.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 10:58 am

    I get the feeling Trump is getting bored with the whole thing. I mean, it was fun for him for a while, but now… isn’t it time for a round of golf?

  41. 41.

    Poopyman

    November 13, 2015 at 10:59 am

    @JPL: You have to remember the two parts are co-located.

  42. 42.

    Hoodie

    November 13, 2015 at 10:59 am

    I don’t see how they arrive at any one of these clowns given the fractiousness of the GOP. Everyone has some influential group that will deem them unacceptable. The elites don’t want Trump, Carson or Cruz for various reasons. The nativists don’t want Bush, Rubio or Kasich. The rest don’t matter.

  43. 43.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 11:00 am

    @dedc79: Love em. Have seen them twice. Great band. Some excellent songs by them are:

    The Only Difference between Suicide & Martyrdom…
    That Green Gentleman (Things have Changed)
    I Write Sins, not Tragedies
    The Ballad of Mona Lisa
    Hurricane
    Nicotine

  44. 44.

    Germy Shoemangler

    November 13, 2015 at 11:05 am

    LOL GOP has described Trump’s recent speech as

    LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 3h3 hours ago
    LOLGOP Retweeted Jenna Johnson
    Like the last days of a slightly disinterested cult leader.

  45. 45.

    Watchman

    November 13, 2015 at 11:05 am

    Keep thinking that “Holy shit we have got to stop Trump/Carson” will get the country excited enough to vote for Hillary Fucking Clinton when for 95% of America it doesn’t matter which Wall Street asshole is in charge.

  46. 46.

    shell

    November 13, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Cue the tiny violins….
    “James O’Keefe Detained And ‘Banned In Perpetuity’ From Yale”

    Me-Oh-My-Oh.
    *************************

    This semi-serious spec about drafting Romney as The GOP savior has me gob-smacked. They really think their best and only chance is running their two-time loser?
    ****
    Oh, and I see the numbers are back on comments. Yay!

  47. 47.

    Germy Shoemangler

    November 13, 2015 at 11:07 am

    @Poopyman:
    I’ve enjoyed a sentimental reunion with the little scrollbar button that was invisible for so many days. Welcome back, friend!

  48. 48.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 13, 2015 at 11:11 am

    Check out all the Bernie fans in the comments here (both on G+ and on Salon) pledging not to vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election:

    https://plus.google.com/u/0/116542827541491301720/posts/5vfBbpBj6vy

    I think we might have a serious problem.

  49. 49.

    canuckistani

    November 13, 2015 at 11:13 am

    Speaking from Rob Ford land, do not underestimate the willingness of idiots to vote for that unelectable moron.

  50. 50.

    waspuppet

    November 13, 2015 at 11:16 am

    Why exactly do they consider Mitt the one to unite everyone/wise everyone up?

    The other thing is, if the GOP is smart (tough call, though any bunch who wins elections with such thoroughly reviled ideas has some kind of skill) they should be very worried that the 50 or so percent who back Trump and Carson are going to sit out the general if they’re not the nominee. I don’t see a real guarantee that they’ll turn out for even Rubio, much less Jeb(!).

  51. 51.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 11:20 am

    The 538 article on how bad the US population thinks the economy is, is depressing.

    Basically, a rich woman with a thriving landscaping business says the unemployment rate is just as high as it ever was. Nobody notices the substantial improvements in the economy from 2008 – when we were losing 600,000 jobs every month, and companies like McDonalds were worried they would not make payroll.

    Too many people believe Cruz when he says the world is on fire [but things were great back when we had that GOP president, whose name escapes us all]. Drives me crazy.

  52. 52.

    cmorenc

    November 13, 2015 at 11:20 am

    @satby:

    OK, I know you’re all excited by having numbers back, but the numbers-names-names quoted-quote fonts a different size-blue lines= bleh… it’s a borderline unreadable mess. TheotherChuck has been doing heroic work with his style sheets, but it’s been nearly a full-time job keeping up with all the tweaking, I’m sure.
    Is readability just too much to ask for a blog that you, you know, READ?

    Agree 100% – the #1 task of good blog design is readability, and not how it looks as a piece of graphic visual art. Latest example of failing at this principle – what’s with the miniature thread titles?

  53. 53.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 11:21 am

    @waspuppet:

    Why exactly do they consider Mitt the one to unite everyone/wise everyone up?

    Paul Ryan. I do not want a brokered convention.

  54. 54.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 11:22 am

    @catclub: The Economy Is Better — Why Don’t Voters Believe It?

    at 538.com

  55. 55.

    Botsplainer

    November 13, 2015 at 11:23 am

    @cmorenc:

    My gripe is that as a guy of um, a certain age, I’m having to zoom the site in order to read it.

  56. 56.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 11:24 am

    2. Meanwhile, the Washington Examiner’s Jason Russell asks: Where are the Republicans’ spending cuts? Excellent question.

  57. 57.

    rikyrah

    November 13, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Marco Rubio: Yes, Big Government CAN create jobs…for my voters

    By Greg Sargent November 11
    One of the most significant moments in last night’s GOP debate came when Ted Cruz took a subtle shot at Marco Rubio over the latter’s support for Big Sugar. Cruz attacked the idea of “corporate welfare,” citing “sugar subsidies” as an example of the problem, noting that sugar farmers supply 40 percent of the funds spent on lobbying in exchange for such government giveaways.

    As Steve Benen notes, this signals a coming attack Cruz will use on Rubio, since the latter has supported such subsidies in the past, and conservatives oppose these subsidies. Rubio had previously been targeted on this topic by a blistering Wall Street Journal editorial, which argued that the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s sugar subsidies program amounts to crony capitalism for big sugar producers that are allied with Rubio, and that Rubio’s support for it exposes “a tendency to hedge” on his “limited government conservatism” when he thinks it’s “politically beneficial.”

    On ABC News this morning, Rubio was pressed by George Stephanopoulos to respond to that editorial. His answer is notable:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/11/11/marco-rubio-yes-big-government-can-create-jobs-for-my-voters/

  58. 58.

    Richard Mayhew

    November 13, 2015 at 11:26 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I don’t.

    This happens every primary season (do you remember the PUMA purity brigade and the Hillary is 44 crowd, do you remember the Deaniacs in 2004?)

    What usually happens after a candidate with passionate supporters loses in the primary is those supporters get good and drunk after the concession speech, wake up with a hang-over, bitch and moan for a bit, see that their next available options are either a candidate who beat their preferred candidate but is relatively close to their preferred positions or a candidate who is very far from their preferred positions. And then once they have a good greesy cheeseteak sub (my hangover beater), they get to work on their second option instead of working for their 98th option.

    That is not 100% true (see Hillary is 44 ) but it is overwhelmingly common unless there is a massive split in the party where the opposition party has preferred positions that are fairly close to the defeated faction’s positions. That is not the case within the Democratic Party in 2015/2016.

  59. 59.

    gene108

    November 13, 2015 at 11:27 am

    @Schlemazel:

    It will be interesting to see if he is still in it after New Hampshire. Once there are only 3-4 serious contenders having 25% of the vote is not going to win many primaries.

    McCain was winning with about 30% to 35% of the vote in 2008, but it was a winner take system in 2008, so he locked up the nomination early on, as he got more votes than other contenders.

    Even, if the “kiddie” table folks drop out, you are still looking at a half dozen candidates, who think they have a shot, on top of Trump and Carson. The following won’t be dropping out anytime soon, which include the “Cuban Bros”, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, John Bush, John Kasich, Randall Paul, and at least of one the following Carly, Christie, Bobby J and Rick Santorum.

    25% will be a good showing in such a crowded field.

  60. 60.

    rikyrah

    November 13, 2015 at 11:28 am

    Morning Plum: Marco Rubio’s clever immigration straddle

    By Greg Sargent November 11
    Last night’s GOP debate laid bare with unusual clarity the deep and nasty divide within the party over immigration. That divide has a policy and political component: The first is over what to do about the 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country — should they go, or should they stay, and if so, on what terms? The second is over a related dispute over whether Republicans have to make genuine efforts to appear more welcoming and inclusive and broaden the party’s demographic appeal to win the White House.

    At the debate, Donald Trump doubled down on his calls to deport the 11 million, aligning himself with one side of this argument. But John Kasich and Jeb Bush forcefully and unequivocally denounced Trump’s stance as policy fantasy and political suicide, aligning themselves clearly with the other side.

    As many news accounts have observed, Rubio last night did not get drawn into this debate. But on ABC News this morning, George Stephanopoulos tried to pin Rubio’s position down — and the Florida Senator responded by straddling that seething divide. Rubio declined to directly denounce Trump’s call for mass deportations:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/11/11/morning-plum-marco-rubios-clever-immigration-straddle/

  61. 61.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 11:29 am

    @catclub:

    Where are the Republicans’ spending cuts? Excellent question.


    Off the top of my head (without researching any actual policy proposals) I would assume massive cuts to the social safety net (such as it is), cuts to the EPA, to the FDA and to the Dept. of Labor.

  62. 62.

    gvg

    November 13, 2015 at 11:30 am

    They could switch to Romney only if the potential GOP voter pool realized that Romney would only lose and the rest will get blown out. I don’t think they are capable of realizing that yet. We know they keep concluding that the last guy wasn’t a real conservative and if only they had run someone else, the voters would have agreed with them. They haven’t realized that their problem is the voters DON’T majority agree with them. Gerrymandering has fostered an illusion in them of their own numbers probably. I had been thinking that they needed to be blown out behind a “true” conservative to start reforming. It just hit me there people are so deluded it may take 2 blowouts to make it thru their thick sculls.
    Everytime they run a true nut, there is always a chance something could mess up on the Democratic nominee, and they could get in so I hate the Russian roulette game. A heart attack seems more likely than a scandal after all the “vetting” Hillary has been through. I really wish she was younger.
    Every single one of these clowns would be a disaster so I am not sure I want to get worked up that it might be Trump or Carson. Past elections that I know about have been nothing like this one. Last two times I sort of thought that McCain and Romney were the most respectable who were still nuts enough to run. IF there are any sane GOP potential candidates I think they are looking at the electorate and keeping quiet. No sense in getting labeled loser.
    The real danger of only 1 party sane is corruption. You can’t vote out a crook because the alternative might give the nut party a majority.

  63. 63.

    Brachiator

    November 13, 2015 at 11:30 am

    Party leaders and donors fear that nominating either man would have negative ramifications for the GOP ticket up and down the ballot

    At this point, I can actually imagine a scenario in which Trump not only wins the GOP nomination, but also the presidency. Trump would probably have a problem with Latinos, but he might nail the white male vote, since this election is likely to magnify gender gap issues between the Republicans and Democrats.

    It would be outrageous to see the Republicans continue to have to deal with a president they despise.

    The whole thing would be a disaster for the country, but it would be fun to watch from a distance.

    Carson doesn’t stand a chance in any universe of becoming president, but this might also be another way that the establishment GOP can find a way to neuter Trump. Evangelicals love Carson, but are not buying what Trump is putting down.

  64. 64.

    gene108

    November 13, 2015 at 11:31 am

    @catclub:

    The 538 article on how bad the US population thinks the economy is, is depressing.

    I think part of it is that people took such a beating during the Great Recession that even though the economy is better, they personally are not where they were 8-9 years ago, so they are not feeling the good economy as much as people have in other recoveries.

  65. 65.

    gratuitous

    November 13, 2015 at 11:32 am

    Odd. All the Republican crowds seem to get revved up when their candidates denounce the Democrats promising people “free stuff.” But they get even more revved up when their candidates promise to send 11 million people out of the country, presumably costing not a cent, or when a candidate says he’d bomb the shit out of other countries, which similarly won’t cost anything.

    Meanwhile, we continue to pay for those wars started by the Dim Son, once all shiny and new and full of promise, but now all scuffed and dingy and not working right. The bills just keep coming every month, though. From this recent, real-world experience, our Republican friends have learned < 0.

  66. 66.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 11:34 am

    @Germy: I think the point is to ask: What cuts have the GOP candidates actually named?

    I bet zero of them have named ‘massive cuts to the social safety net’. I bet they have not said they will cut EPA – people like clean air and clean water.

  67. 67.

    japa21

    November 13, 2015 at 11:35 am

    All those who think Trump calling Iowans stupid will doom him are forgetting part of Trump’s appeal. I don’t think any of the other GOP candidates could get away with it but Trump can. He is the loudmouth, brash, but considered correct bully. People will remember him being the same way towards folks on his reality show. And those people still looked for his approval.

    Instead of going “What an idiot himself. Who does he think he is calling us idiots?’ many of the voters will think more along the lines of “Gee, this guy knows what he is talking about. Maybe we are idiots if we are supporting Carson.” For every current supporter he may lose from these comments, he may win 1.5 current Carson supporters.

  68. 68.

    Just One More Canuck

    November 13, 2015 at 11:35 am

    @satby: @cmorenc: And the portions are too small

  69. 69.

    Applejinx

    November 13, 2015 at 11:39 am

    If they’re mad at Trump and want to stick it to the establishment and beat Hillary Clinton, they can draft Sanders. One extremism is much like another.

    This suggestion sounds crazier than it is. What happens if the people trying to make Trump into their old-white-guy-yells-at-Washington hope, get handed Romney or something? Technically they’re allowed to vote for whoever, right up to the last moment.

  70. 70.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 11:39 am

    @gene108: I think that is a smaller part than the press barely covering good news at all. 68 straight months of job growth should be a bigger deal, in spite of the poor wage growth. Budget deficits falling far faster than anyone predicted should be a big deal.

    The only rosy side of this is that no boom in growth also means that recession is VERY unlikely in the next few years.

  71. 71.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 13, 2015 at 11:40 am

    And so it was that later
    As the miller told his tale
    That the blog, at first just ghostly,
    Turned a whiter shade of pale

  72. 72.

    Poopyman

    November 13, 2015 at 11:42 am

    Attention blog developers! I can’t seeeeeeeeeeee!

    (The text has gone to a light beige, and no one will be able to read this comment until it gets fixed.)

    ETA: I like OO’s description better.

  73. 73.

    redshirt

    November 13, 2015 at 11:43 am

    @Applejinx: It’s those other Iowans that are stupid. Not me and mine.

  74. 74.

    benw

    November 13, 2015 at 11:43 am

    Woooooo! This comment is a ghooooost!

    ETA: noooooo! It’s noooooottt!

  75. 75.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    November 13, 2015 at 11:44 am

    @Bill:

    They’re ready to burn the place down to get what they want. If the moneyed elite work a back room deal to get Mitt the nomination, the pitchforks and torches are coming out. The Republican party would cease to exist.

    And yet, they own more than half of the state houses in the country. I don’t see the GOP going anywhere anytime soon.

  76. 76.

    Lord Baldrick

    November 13, 2015 at 11:47 am

    test test test

  77. 77.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 11:48 am

    I like the dashed line between comments. Improves readability.

  78. 78.

    Bill

    November 13, 2015 at 11:49 am

    @cmorenc:

    You speak of this as if it would be a bad thing.

    I wasn’t really commenting one whether it’s good or bad. Just that the establishment is smart enough to realize they have to hold together the Republican coalition if they want to have any chance of winning national elections.

  79. 79.

    benw

    November 13, 2015 at 11:50 am

    @catclub: almost all of them have signed off on a budget like Paul Ryan’s, which proposes massive cuts to education, labor, SS, Medicare/caid, and the EPA. Some, like Trump, have specifically said they’d cut the EPA, and Jeb has said he’s stop the EPA from doing it’s job, although I haven’t heard how he’d cut it. An even bigger point to remember is that none of those terrible, horrible, no good, very bad cuts would make up a tiny amount of the deficit caused by every single candidates massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations.

  80. 80.

    Watchman

    November 13, 2015 at 11:54 am

    @gene108: When the economy really isn’t better for 99% of us and outright worse for 90% of us, what the fuck did you think people were going to believe about the economy and the Democrats?

  81. 81.

    Capri

    November 13, 2015 at 11:54 am

    Dealing with republicans right now reminds me of dealing with heroin addicts. They know what they are doing is killing them, but for the life of them they can’t stop.

    If a single candidate other than Trump could bring themselves to admit that any of the backwards tax cuts = prosperity trickle down bullshit is, in fact, voodoo economics with a 30 year track record of not working they would probably rise right up their with the non-politicians.
    But the other candidates can’t because doing so disqualifies them as a republican.

  82. 82.

    Amir Khalid

    November 13, 2015 at 11:54 am

    We’re still being solicited to DONTATE VIA PAYPAL, per the text above the “Donate with PayPal” button. That’s so cute.

  83. 83.

    gwangung

    November 13, 2015 at 11:54 am

    @Watchman: Keep thinking that. That’s what the oligarchs want you to think.

  84. 84.

    Eric U.

    November 13, 2015 at 11:56 am

    who was it that said “strap a dog to the roof of the clown car and Mitt will agree to drive”?

  85. 85.

    JPL

    November 13, 2015 at 11:56 am

    Now I’m convinced that Carson is getting his info from the internet… This is from TPM
    Ben Carson says his “sources” on Syria are better than the White House

  86. 86.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 11:57 am

    @gene108: Compare the Obama economy with the Bush anti-terrorism record:

    But the impression that Bush was successful, or even especially well-focused, on protecting Americans from terrorism is an inversion of reality, and the fact that it can still be asserted with a straight face is the residue of one of the most successful propaganda campaigns in American history.

    Maybe in seven or eight years people will notice that the economy has been pretty good.

  87. 87.

    Randy P

    November 13, 2015 at 11:58 am

    @Germy: Also anything that smacks of regulation. No IRS auditors, no FDA meat inspectors, no OSHA.

  88. 88.

    eric

    November 13, 2015 at 11:59 am

    @Germy: and the department of Commerce and the department of commerce.

  89. 89.

    Applejinx

    November 13, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think we might have a serious problem.

    Who’s ‘we’, kemosabe?

    Some of those commenters have a point: if the Republicans are imploding this hard, then the Dem primary is the real election here.

    It is on Hillary Clinton to convince us she’s gonna triangulate her ass all the way over into Bernie territory. We know she can throw somebody under the bus, we just don’t know if it’ll be Wall St. For anybody who would like to see Hil do that and take on the mantle of a Roosevelt and get the best legacy ever and eight years of awesomeness, this is how you do it.

    It is certainly not Bernie supporters’ job to win Hillary the primary, it’s her job to prove she can do as well or better than Bernie. Had she not literally represented Wall Street as a New York Senator (or represented Wal-Mart as a board of directors member) it would be easier for her, but that’s called a ‘challenge’ and you’re disrespecting her by trying to waive that challenge.

    Making (idle) threats to write in Bernie is not breaking the law, it’s power fucking politics and using that as a threat is not a stunt. This stuff matters. Hillary could convince me but then again she’s just as capable of weaseling in some way where I’d think electing her would be a big mistake, possibly even worse than riding out the utter disaster of a Peak Republican government, a sort of final explosion that destroys everything and probably leads to violent uprising.

    It would take a LOT of Hillary gaffe to convince me that was better than an Establishment Hillary term, but it’s not impossible. In particular if she hints at austerity politics and doesn’t go full Krugman (if not full Mark Blyth, even better) then it might be better to have the guy breaking your fingers one by one with a big pliers, than the metastizing cancer. Some of the stuff in our politics can go under the radar but is unthinkably pervasive and damaging. Look at TPP.

    This is the time to be making threats like ‘write in Bernie’ and if there are specific policy issues you’re holding out for, this is the time to hammer those AND back them up with your threat. I have a hard time imagining any issues other than economic to do this over, but then that’s the language I’m seeing when I see that threat. Wall street establishment Hillary, gonna re-enact Bill C’s globalism.

    My support for Hillary is entirely predicated on the assumption that she’s not stupid and knows that’s out of tune with the times. Both she and Bill are gifted politicians and should know this.

    If they don’t and I’m really, really, REALLY convinced that she would pivot back to what used to be the center in the 80s, I would write in Bernie too. Note the condition. These things are as important to the future of the country as racism and belt buckles.

  90. 90.

    Watchman

    November 13, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    @gwangung: LOL.

    Cause the oligarchs were so terrified of the last Clinton administration, right?

  91. 91.

    rk

    November 13, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    I saw the 9 minute speech. The crowd did not sit in stunned silence. I’m not voting for Trump and think he’s a joke, but he’s actually doing what the media and the moderators did not bother or dare to do ie. rip apart idiot Ben Carson and his demented stories. Whatever one thinks of Trump, he’s right about Carson (yes, the pedophilia analogy is waaay over the top). Carson is the one who’s made up the nonsense. If the stories are made up, he’s the guy who’s fed into the stereotype of the violent black male. It makes me angry to think that Carson’s manufactured this story to become popular with the evangelical right wing crowd. Listening to Trump, it becomes clear that he’s not going away unless he chooses to walk away.

  92. 92.

    catclub

    November 13, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    @Watchman:

    When the economy really isn’t better for 99% of us and outright worse for 90% of us

    NO. When 5% more have jobs than under 10% unemployment, this is wrong. Maybe not tremendously better off, but still better.

  93. 93.

    Randy P

    November 13, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    @Watchman: You realize your numbers don’t agree with reality, right? Are you getting them from GOP press releases?

  94. 94.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    @Capri: None of those weirdo single-issue voters gives a crap about the economy (in comparison with their pet issue).

  95. 95.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    @JPL: Think he also mentioned that some Nigerian prince is going to fund his campaign…

    Edit: Realize that foreigners cannot fund election campaigns.

  96. 96.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    @rk: Thanks, I sort of suspected that. In the brief clips I saw on CBS (and ABC) it looked like the crowd was quiet through his speech. I’m certain they wanted the video to illustrate their “Trump is fading” narrative.

  97. 97.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    @Applejinx: Whomever is the Democratic nominee, you enthusiastically support them and, if necessary, pretend they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    That’s what you do once the primaries are over.

  98. 98.

    Watchman

    November 13, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    @Applejinx: Finally.

    Somebody understands what’s going on here. Clinton did more damage to our country with his “balanced budget”, welfare reform, DOMA, repealing Glass-Steagal, Alan Greenspan and Larry Summers, and his wandering dick than Shrub did.

    Keep telling yourself that Bernie fans under 35 like me are going to stick with the Democrats when Hillary gets nominated.

  99. 99.

    Mike J

    November 13, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    @catclub:

    Maybe in seven or eight years people will notice that the economy has been pretty good.

    If Hillary wins, there will be a certain class of Republican pundits that will say nice things about Obama. It’s easy enough to throw out some nice words about a previous Democrat (who can’t hold office again and therefore isn’t a threat) as a way to beat up whatever Democrats are currently in power.

    There have been Republicans who said nice things about Bill Clinton, just to beat up Obama, and they ran a ten year witch hunt against him. They won’t actually mean it, but beltway types always want indie cred

  100. 100.

    gene108

    November 13, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    @gvg:

    I had been thinking that they needed to be blown out behind a “true” conservative to start reforming. It just hit me there people are so deluded it may take 2 blowouts to make it thru their thick sculls.

    They suffered two blow outs in 2006 and 2008. Didn’t sink in.

    They need to lose and lose and lose at every level, so there is nothing left of the Republican Party but a laughing stock.

    Maybe a decade or two of consecutive losses.

    But I just do not see that happening.

  101. 101.

    Watchman

    November 13, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    @Paul in KY: Fuck that.

    Earn my vote or you don’t get it.

  102. 102.

    redshirt

    November 13, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    @Watchman:

    Keep telling yourself that Bernie fans under 35 like me are going to stick with the Democrats when Hillary gets nominated.

    Yeah! Nader 2000! Sparkle Ponies!

  103. 103.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 12:18 pm

    @Watchman: You are full of crap, IMO.

    To say that Bill Clinton’s presidencies were worse than Batshit McChimpy’s, is just insane.

  104. 104.

    Heliopause

    November 13, 2015 at 12:18 pm

    It’s interesting to contrast the reaction of GOPCentral, assuming this reporting is correct, to that of the 538 crew, who are quite sanguine about an “establishment” candidate eventually taking the nom. They currently are bullish on Rubio and Cruz (as if we should be sanguine about that).

  105. 105.

    debbie

    November 13, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    @Mike J:

    If Hillary wins, there will be a certain class of Republican pundits that will say nice things about Obama.

    If this happens, I’m pretty sure I will die of shock. The blood-bath they’d fall into from their own would be fearful.

  106. 106.

    Schlemazel

    November 13, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    @gene108:
    I believe the GOP has moved away from winner-take-all contests in many states. That means winning with a plurality in a 6-way is not gonna get ya home. Who is left in a mess like that will depend upon whose sugar daddy is will to throw money down a rat hole. I’m not convinced many will unless they believe they can make a deal in a brokered convention and even that is an iffy deal as those guys all know what a bunch of slippery lying sacks of double-dealing shit they all are and won’t trust each other.

  107. 107.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    It’s a Trap!

    No one thinks attacking Mrs. Clinton from the left is likely to turn the most liberal Democrats into Republican voters. But Steven Law, president of American Crossroads, said the goal was simply to erode what should be her natural core of support.

    “It can diminish enthusiasm for Hillary among the base over time,” he said. “And if you diminish enthusiasm, lukewarm support can translate into lackluster fund-raising and perhaps diminished turnout down the road.”

    This year, Zac Moffatt, a co-founder of Targeted Victory, a right-leaning political technology firm, who handled Mr. Romney’s digital operation and has worked with groups like America Rising and American Crossroads, laid out the strategy in a memo to several clients. “There was a hole to fill in the market,” he said, and if Democrats were not willing to challenge Mrs. Clinton, Republicans could do it themselves.

    “We were seeing people on the left who were interested in content about Hillary Clinton, and that there would be opportunities for groups to share this information with Democrats on the left,” Mr. Moffatt said.

    To reach these groups, Mr. Moffatt had a plan: using micro-targeted advertising units on social media platforms like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.

  108. 108.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    @Watchman: I guess you did vote for Nader back in 2000, or were you in middle school?

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    November 13, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    @gene108:

    I think part of it is that people took such a beating during the Great Recession that even though the economy is better,

    The economy is personal, and I think that some economic indicators are not always meaningful at the individual level.

    Wages are still stagnant, people are still underemployed, jobs in many industries are disappearing. People do not see that their lives have improved, or see that it takes more effort to even try to stay at a reasonable standard of living.

    And you are right that the situation was so bad years ago, especially during the Bush Administration, that improvements to the economy are not even close to restoring past periods of prosperity.

  110. 110.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 13, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    @Paul in KY: Pretty sure Watchman is Zandar’s stalker. He’s going to vote the opposite of however Zandar votes.

  111. 111.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 13, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    @Watchman: Yeah, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg is worse for America than Samuel Alito.

    Douchebag.

  112. 112.

    mai naem mobile

    November 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    I don’t think Trumpy started as a serious candidate. I think it was a vanity campaign aimed at embellishing his rep. It appears that the crowds at his events have convinced him that he’s a serious candidate. Granted it’s a low bar, but Trumpy appears to be studying issues more than Caribou.Barbie did.

  113. 113.

    danielx

    November 13, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    @cmorenc:

    However, what would follow from the ashes of the GOP is less certain – in what form might the monster regenerate and from where might it summon its strength, such as the GOP did after the Goldwater disaster in 1964?

    Considering the numbers of wingnuts out there whose major hobbies are fondling their firearms and fantasizing about guerilla warfare because THEY ARE BEING OPPRESSED, I don’t like to think about it too much. I say oppressed because they really do view the idea of other people receiving government benefits or being allowed to exercise their rights (you know, like voting or getting married or saying/believing whatever they choose) as oppression. If they can’t get the results they want at the ballot box because reality gets in the way (as has been the case for the last couple of decades), they”ll be contemplating bullet boxes, just like Snowbilly Snooki. (Trump/Palin ’16 – the mind boggles.) After all, they’ve been told for decades that all the problems are due to brown people and dirty fucking hippies and environmentalists and faggots and perverts or whoever the bete-noir-of-the-day is, and the more eliminationist the rhetoric has gotten. Now the “Republican establishment” is totally panicking because in their view, the inmates have escaped the asylum and are backing Randall McMurphy and Alfred E. Neuman. When they start publicly throwing around lines like “This business has turned into show business…We can’t afford to have somebody sitting in the White House who doesn’t have governing experience and the gravitas to move this country ahead.”, you know they’ve reached the pissypants stage.

    Note: use of the word ‘gravitas’ alone signals someone completely unacquainted with today’s Republican primary voters, since most of them wouldn’t know what ‘gravitas’ is if it came up and and bit five bucks worth of ground chuck out of their right butt cheeks.

    The “Republican establishment” – and the Villagers, bless their flabby black hearts – seem to have completely missed the fact that there no longer is a “Republican establishment” in the sense of rational thinking adults who can actually do arithmetic and recognize the complexities of running a country of three hundred million-odd people. The “Republican establishment” has been replaced by nihilists who would rather burn the motherfucker down than compromise – on anything. The Republican base wants the pounds of flesh they’ve been promised for so many years, preferably raw and still bleeding, and they don’t give a fiddler’s fuck about who gets hurt in the process. The base has been fed rage hormones in their daily intake for a long time and now the rough beast is slouching towards Bethlehem at last, as chronicled by Driftglass and many others.

    Dr. Heckle and Mr. Jive

    – today’s win on the intertubes.

  114. 114.

    Zandar

    November 13, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Oh, he is.

    And bye bye, Watchman.

  115. 115.

    Goblue72

    November 13, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    Goldwater so destroyed the GOP in 1964, that by 1968, Nixon was President.

  116. 116.

    Gravenstone

    November 13, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: He’s not going to vote, just run his mouth and try to piss people off. Attention whores gotta whore, after all.

  117. 117.

    gogol's wife

    November 13, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    @Poopyman:

    You tempted me into trying it. It bumped me back to the original post, out of the comment thread entirely.

  118. 118.

    The Other Chuck

    November 13, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    Looks like markup-wise, the current BJ comment system is a massive step backward, having lost nearly all the semantic information that used to be structured in spans and classes. It’s going to take javascript like EBBJ to get even the alternating colors back, it’s beyond CSS’s ability to fix now.

    Thing is, I’m burned out on coding and pretty much all tech in general. I spent last night deleting all my photos and facebook posts, and I’m going to take an axe to my github and bitbucket accounts today. So barring a relapse on my part, I think someone else is going to have to pick up the baton.

  119. 119.

    PaulW

    November 13, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    Big Money will not necessarily support the nominee if the nominee is blatantly toxic to the general electorate. They’re not about to throw good billions after bad trash. They’ll likely fund as many of the Senate and House runs as possible, but if it’s Trump / Carson and they’re polling below 39 percent in the general campaign, forget it.

  120. 120.

    HinTN

    November 13, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    @Just One More Canuck: I can get here on mobile by way of the archives…

  121. 121.

    Bill

    November 13, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: I probably should have said: “The Republican Party will cease to exist as a national party” There’s no doubt that if the party implodes those politicians and voters go somewhere. And they may well retain those statehouses. But without the coalition Nixon built and Reagan solidified, they can forget about national elections.

  122. 122.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: I guess he’s changed his moniker. Thanks for the info..

  123. 123.

    Princess

    November 13, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    @Randy P: That’s where GOP trolls usually get their numbers from.

  124. 124.

    Riley's Enabler

    November 13, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: You owe me a monitor cleanse.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N3f9ALU58U

  125. 125.

    gogol's wife

    November 13, 2015 at 12:36 pm

    @Germy:

    Don’t forget the FAA. I’m afraid to read the article in this month’s Vanity Fair, about how U.S. airlines are outsourcing their major maintenance to countries where the mechanics don’t speak English, and the FAA’s budget has been cut to the point where they can’t provide inspectors.

    ETA: English being the language of aviation manuals.

  126. 126.

    PaulW

    November 13, 2015 at 12:36 pm

    the thing that gets me is how the party elites are looking to draft Mitt back into the game. He is not a direct threat to the likes of Trump or Carson: it’s a good bet the party base won’t take Mitt for a third time (and last time they held their noses to support him because none of the Not-Mitt candidates – Cain, Perry, Newt, Santorum – just couldn’t stay focused).

    If Mitt gets into the race, it’s because of one thing only: Jeb. His campaigning has been so haphazard and tone-deaf that the Establishment is thinking he can’t even make the race competitive towards a brokered convention (if Trump / Carson win enough delegates that convention is the ONLY way to stop them). The deep pockets are looking for someone they know and trust – Kasich and Rubio aren’t cutting it apparently – that they think can get into a double-digit poll number and stay there well enough to endure until July 2016.

  127. 127.

    gene108

    November 13, 2015 at 12:36 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    They moved away from the winner take all by 2012. They wanted to to mimic the energy the Democrats had in 2008.

    It’s just people, who think 25% of the vote is underperforming or something, in a crowded field are not considering recent history, when McCain was doing only slightly better in 2008 and won the nomination.

    Winning 25% of the vote will be enough for maintaining front runner status, until the less successful candidates start to drop out and by then the person racking up the most votes will probably have the aura of a winner around him (sorry Carly, you ain’t gettin’ that far), which will not hurt his chances.

  128. 128.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 13, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    @cmorenc: Here’s the thing, also too. The Other Chuck has a More Better Balloon Juice CSS at Stylish that fixed nearly all of the readability issues – and brought back (subtly) alternating background colors for comments. Also javascript adjustments, Even Betterer Balloon Juice, at greasemonkey. Together those adjusted just about everything but blue colored bolded text, or the absence of comment numbers.

    Then there was a change overnight Wednesday that made all those fixes go away. : ( And The Other Chuck has indicated he’ll be unavailable for tech projects for a lengthy period. He suggested anyone interested in taking over those could contact him. To date, I’ve not persuaded Mr. Q to do so.

    It can be better, and it was much better, until overnight Wednesday.

  129. 129.

    Riley's Enabler

    November 13, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: You owe me a monitor cleanse.

    Also, FYWP for eating my comment and attached link to Annie Lennox’s version of the song. To paraphrase Mister Pierce, “I do so despair of the rebranding”.

  130. 130.

    Thoughtful Today

    November 13, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    One reason a tiny, tiny minority of Sanders supporters are so alienated from Clinton is comments like: “Sanders. One extremism is much like another.”

    Sanders’ policies are preferred by majorities in America.

    Majority opinion being sneered at as ‘extremism’ is … Clintonian triangulation on steroids.

  131. 131.

    trollhattan

    November 13, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    @PaulW:
    The clip of him blowing his prepared “Washington, Iowa” quip was painful/hilarious in equal measure. I actually feel sorry for the guy–he’s so uncomfortable out there. He’d make a fine day manager at Cheesecake Factory, I think.

    Cruz miscounting his five federal agency death list was as bad, but I feel nary a twinge of sympathy for that guy. What a vile waste of human skin.

  132. 132.

    Poopyman

    November 13, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    @gogol’s wife: Sorry. Yes, did the same thing to me when I returned. Either I erred or the fiddling that returned black text to the comments reset the back button. Probably the former, actually.

  133. 133.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    @The Other Chuck:

    I spent last night deleting all my photos and facebook posts, and I’m going to take an axe to my github and bitbucket accounts today.

    Why?

  134. 134.

    Waysel

    November 13, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    @Botsplainer: Totally.

  135. 135.

    PaulW

    November 13, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    just remember this about elections: it’s going to be a two-horse race (unless Trump gets cut from the GOP and he jumps in as an Indy to retaliate),

    Voter turnout is a necessity.

    Voting against the Republicans – pushing an anti-immigrant, anti-government, anti-people agenda – across the board is a must.

  136. 136.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 13, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Or, see what The Other Chuck said above. Thanks for the great fixes, TOC.

  137. 137.

    danielx

    November 13, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    @Goblue72:

    Goldwater so destroyed the GOP in 1964, that by 1968, Nixon was President.

    Nixon became president in 1968 because the Democratic Party imploded during that period, much as the Republican Party is doing now.

  138. 138.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 13, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    Oh, hell’s bells. I appear to have somehow created a threaded comment. I have no idea what or how or why. ::sobs::

  139. 139.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 12:45 pm

    OT:

    Noting that the comments are being worked upon as we speak. This is not a “we gave them the comment numbers and still they bitch” comment, but an observation and a suggestion which might aid in appearance.

    That is, if the comment numbers were in a box of the same bluish tone as they now show up, with the numerals the same color as the grayish background (as if they were reverse printed). See the bluish circle with the total comment replies number up top for an example. Appearing as such would not only serve to differentiate them from linked names and/or text of the same bluish color in the comments themselves but make it visually obvious that the numbers are a part of the layout and not a part of the comment itself.

    Again, not a complaint, just a possibility to chew on.

    @Schlemazel

    R primaries up through March 15 are proportionate, after that they are completely winner takes all (as things now stand).

  140. 140.

    Germy

    November 13, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I prefer replies going to the bottom of the page myself.

  141. 141.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 13, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    And the Reply button is gone, so I can’t even reply to Bella Q telling her that she broke the blog.

    This does not seem to be moving in the general direction of “better”.

  142. 142.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    Oh, I see, the Reply button/link moved to the left side. I was looking for it on the right.

  143. 143.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Idle hands Threaded comments are the devil’s playground.

  144. 144.

    Calouste

    November 13, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    @Schlemazel: Technically it is about the number of delegates, but in reality whoever wins one of the early primaries (mainly New Hampshire) gets such a boost in media and undecided voters that it really doesn’t matter if it is proportional or winner takes all. There will be very little talk about delegate counts, and far more talk about who has won the most primaries, and (for Jeb) who has finished in the back of the field.

  145. 145.

    Amir Khalid

    November 13, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    @Germy:
    If you hit Reply on a threaded reply your own reply winds up in the thread too. But I’m not sure how the thread got started. Do you know?

  146. 146.

    Corner Stone

    November 13, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): It’s hideous! Burn it! BURN IT WITH FIRE!!

  147. 147.

    sukabi

    November 13, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    The only possible way the Repubs silence Trump and Carson is thru a “Wellstone Event”.

  148. 148.

    SenyorDave

    November 13, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    I am not a huge fan of Hillary Clinton, and I am much closer politically to Bernie Sanders. But I will vote for Clinton over Sanders in the primary (I live in Maryland, and expect there will be a good chance that Clinton will have won by then). In my mind it is about electability, and I believe Sanders has the Socialist label to overcome.
    At this point I would vote for a carbon steel rod (Simpson reference) over any Republican candidate for national office. They simply are not a viable option, and for president it is paramount. Anyone who says Clinton is no better than a Republican should think about the Iraq war. Because it doesn’t happen under President Al Gore. Period. Justices Robert and Alito. No way under any Democrat, even James Webb.
    Under a Republican president, the EPA? Wave goodbye. Roe v Wade, gay marriage? Goodbye, if a liberal justice leaves in the next couple of years.

  149. 149.

    Gravenstone

    November 13, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    @Germy: And it begins, threaded comments …

  150. 150.

    Randy P

    November 13, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Seems pretty pointless to discuss any particular feature of the style while it’s obviously in flux.

    Instead I’ll propose a meta-discussion: Rather than the chaotic discussion method of “make any change and immediately you will get loud teeth-grinding and garment-rending both for and against the change”, what if we had public discussion on style changes? At least some of them? (Meaning PROPOSED changes, before they are implemented).

    Our style-sheet programmers can keep their Godlike ability to make arbitrary changes and ignore the will of the public. But at least there would be a single place and perhaps a process for registering the opinions, and more importantly, the reasoning behind those opinions.

    For instance right now a relevant topic would be threaded comments. Some people love ’em. Some people consider them the Spawn of Satan. Me, I kind of like them up to a certain depth. When you’re starting with such a narrow comment space and you get down to 3-character-wide columns, it gets a little silly.

    Edit: I’m thinking something like the public comment forums that public utilities run, before implementing a change that you know they’re going to do anyway, but they pretend the public has input.

  151. 151.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Thanks for darkening the delineations between comments.

    Personally don’t care for the dashes instead of a solid line (makes the comments look akin to supermarket coupons to be cut out), but can learn to live with it.

  152. 152.

    Poopyman

    November 13, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    Comment threading comes in, comment threading goes out. You can’t explain that.

  153. 153.

    Amir Khalid

    November 13, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    Threaded comments should not have been added without telling the commenters. They need to be got rid of.

  154. 154.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 13, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    @Randy P: Did you miss the earlier proclamation that design by committee would not be tolerated? Any attempts to defy that will be put down promptly. By those in god mode, who will fuck you up. Here and perhaps other places as well.

    Not up for discussion, in other words.

  155. 155.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 13, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Kind sir, please note my comment at #152. Make observations about user experience at your own risk. I believe you are aware of this, and admire your courage. (In my case it’s recklessness: “bring it on brother.”)

  156. 156.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    @Amir Khalid

    They need to be got rid of.

    Lindsey Graham wants to bomb them.

    ;)

  157. 157.

    shell

    November 13, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    dont think Trumpy started as a serious candidate.

    Remember Pat Paulson from “The Smothers Brothers” show? (Ye Gods, Im old) It started out as a stunt; near the end it looked like he had started to take himself half-seriously. And yeah, he got votes.

  158. 158.

    Randy P

    November 13, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): If we all rush Mount Olympus, Zeus can’t hit us all with lightning bolts, right?

    Can he?

    You with me guys? Guys?

  159. 159.

    Randy P

    November 13, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): There appears to be a maximum depth of 3. Not sure if it’s a bug or a feature, but it seems repeatable so far.

  160. 160.

    Paul in KY

    November 13, 2015 at 1:23 pm

    @SenyorDave: Hear, hear!!

  161. 161.

    srv

    November 13, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    If you don’t think Trump can do to Hillary what he did to Bush and is now doing Carson, you haven’t seen anything yet.

    Americans are ready to move on from fantasy to reality.

  162. 162.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    @shell

    (Ye Gods, Im old)

    Am old enough to remember MAD magazine running their mascot.

    The posters seem strangely … prophetic. #1 – #2

  163. 163.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 13, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    I’m so old I remember when Rick Santorum had a winning streak in the Deep South and the money people were panicking about Willard and were gonna draft a White Knight to save them from the White Horse that was pulling up lame. That Knight was Brave, Brave Sir Jeb!

  164. 164.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 13, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    Threaded comments?

  165. 165.

    gogol's wife

    November 13, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    @SenyorDave:

    No more needs to be said. It isn’t rocket science, or even brain surgery, is it?

  166. 166.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 13, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: They were here. Now they’re gone.

    And what is this delineation between comments that people speak of? I can find none. Is that a casualty of The Other Chuck’s CSS tweaks?

  167. 167.

    Amir Khalid

    November 13, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    The hip hop artist from Idaho stumbled upon them by accident. It looks like Tommy and Alain are futzing around with tweaking the comment system. Text is now highlighted in pink, for some reason; the Post Comment button is also pink; and there’s a quite unnecessary pink edge on the comment buttons.

  168. 168.

    Amir Khalid

    November 13, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    They seem to have had second thoughts about the pinking of the comments. Good.

  169. 169.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    @Gin & Tonic

    Screenshot, just for you.

  170. 170.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    @Amir Khalid

    Well, it is Friday the 13th.

    :)

  171. 171.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 13, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    @SenyorDave: I personally don’t think electability should really be a concern when thinking about Sanders vs. Clinton, because I don’t really understand these things and I don’t think anyone does. On the Republican side, the candidates who are regarded by all pundits as the least electable are actually doing the best in head-to-head polls.

    My strategic concern, as someone who would probably vote for Sanders on purely ideological grounds, is more what a strong primary showing by Sanders does if Clinton gets the nomination, as she almost certainly will. The 2008 model is that it’s all to the good: a contested primary gets liberal voters fired up to vote, and builds media attention and enthusiasm.

    On the other hand, there does seem to be a core of Sanders supporters who have a strong personal animus toward Hillary Clinton, think of Sanders primarily as the man who will defeat Hillary, and are clinging to a fantasy that he actually will be President. They could turn into quasi-Naderites and I’m not sure I want to encourage them. But, yes, if they’re anything like the 2008 pro-Hillary PUMAs, they’ll be a non-problem.

  172. 172.

    satby

    November 13, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    @cmorenc: and on both my browsers about 1/3 is actual blog, the other two thirds of the screen is white space for ads (on the right) and wWTF knows what on the left, as well as the gaping black space at the bottom.
    This rolled on November 1, and 12 days later is only slightly-marginally better.
    This is beyond ridiculous at this point.

  173. 173.

    satby

    November 13, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    @Just One More Canuck: Hey, the users helped make this blog successful. I’m ok with some technical tweaking, I worked in IT for eons, but this continues to be a mess for no apparent reason.

  174. 174.

    Brachiator

    November 13, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    On the Republican side, the candidates who are regarded by all pundits as the least electable are actually doing the best in head-to-head polls.

    Right now, the pundits have no idea who on the Republican side might or might not be electable. And they have little to go on historically. Trump and Carson could be modern day Pat Buchanans. Voter preference here would be indicating the ideology that the GOP base would like to see pursued. But until people start actually voting for candidates in the primaries, all the pundit speculation is weak sauce.

  175. 175.

    satby

    November 13, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I know, right… I just hit the wall on it all when I saw the style sheet was borked by the overnight changes,

  176. 176.

    satby

    November 13, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    @The Other Chuck: Thanks for all you did Chuck, this has been 12 days of constant insanity, just to read a blog.
    It’s a tribute to John’s community that he built here that we all keep trying.

  177. 177.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 13, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    @NotMax: Got it. They were a casualty of The Other Chuck’s style sheets. It’s too bad that the new commenting system makes his CSS mods ineffective, and it’s doubly too bad that he’s out of this game.

  178. 178.

    Amir Khalid

    November 13, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    The comment text is now as big as the blockquote text: frikking huge.

  179. 179.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m just gonna have some kind of cocktail tonight and pretend the MBBJ style sheet still fixed the sux. ::pouts::

  180. 180.

    Fair Economist

    November 13, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    @Calouste:

    whoever wins one of the early primaries (mainly New Hampshire) gets such a boost in media and undecided voters that it really doesn’t matter if it is proportional or winner takes all.

    This has been true in the past, but because 1) the fields have been smaller and 2) money woes force those falling behind to drop out. Right now we could easily get Trump, Carson, and Cruz all the way to the convention just as grifters; throw in an establishment candidate and you have a 4-way race. It’s very easy to have nobody with a majority then. Winner-take-all after March 15th will help, but there can still be state-to-state variation and a lot of delegates will already have been assigned (Super Tuesday).

  181. 181.

    Ruckus

    November 13, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    @gratuitous:
    They are revved up by things that they think show that they are powerful. They are like most, just another cog in the world. Making them powerful cogs without them having to do anything, pay for it, participate in it, that’s a positive for them. Saving money by cutting their taxes is a positive because it makes them a teeny, tiny bit wealthier (and of course it makes the rich, richer, but then that means more better jobs and something to aspire to). Of course they’d live in a shittier world but they don’t think that much of it anyway, what with all those minorities and poor people, which tDumpster wants to get rid of.

  182. 182.

    Ruckus

    November 13, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    @Watchman:

    Now I have to edit my comment to even make one?

    Not better for 99%. Do you remember the last 8 yrs? At all? I know there will be and are people who haven’t benefited, of course there are. Now if you want to say things aren’t as good as they might have been or if not as good as they were 10 yrs ago, maybe. But not better at all?
    You my friend are full of shit.

  183. 183.

    NotMax

    November 13, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    @Amir Khalid

    Caution, size queens at work.

    ;)

  184. 184.

    Ruckus

    November 13, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    @satby:
    It’s a tribute to John’s community that he built here that we all keep trying.

    I wonder how long this will last.
    I’ve already had times that I want to read the blog but it’s been so difficult what with the successive can’t reloads when posting or scrolling, the constant changes that make readability/usability worse that I’ve ignored the site for long periods of time. How long til many of us just go away………

    ETA Forgot to add the null article issue, a real pain in the ass.

  185. 185.

    1stgengirk

    November 14, 2015 at 3:23 am

    @JPL: can’t bring up the most current posts. Always one page behind.

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