Early reports say at least one of the terrorists in Paris was a recent Syrian immigrant. The GOP clowns are falling all over themselves to connect terrorism and immigration here. Tailgunner Ted:
“President Obama and Hillary Clinton’s idea that we should bring tens of thousands of Syrian Muslim refugees to America: it is nothing less than lunacy,” the Texas senator said, in an interview with Fox News.
The Democrats will undoubtedly be asked about that at tonight’s debate. What should they say?
Do you think the Paris attacks will drag the US deeper into the Syria morass? The Chairborne Division is sure hot for it.
PS: I’m finding the blog’s back-room buggy as hell, at least when accessed via iThangs. Didn’t want y’all to think I’d attempted another coup. If any FPer has access problems and needs my help, give me a shout in comments. I promise to read it this time!
Germy
Yes.
BGinCHI
Because the guy had a Syrian passport doesn’t mean it’s legit. As the Guardian is reporting, Syrian passport are a “hot commodity” to get into Europe right now, so it’s possible this was used to get entry for nefarious purposes.
But what’s worse, to my mind, is that on one hand you brag about being free and exceptional while at the same time vowing to curtail freedom and access to it because of conflict.
Um, how about solving the fucking conflict instead? Or is that too hard, Ted?
Corner Stone
Our US foreign policy, or this blog?
Discuss.
Derelict
How should they answer? Perhaps something along the lines of “The United States is deeply sympathetic to the plight of displaced persons everywhere. We pledge to provide as much resources as necessary to any country that will take these people in. We will help with food, medicine, and anything else needed. But, for the time being, we will not be accepting refugees from this region until we can develop safe, effective, and efficient ways to make sure we’re not admitting people intent on doing harm.”
And, BTW, I find the front page motif of having the same damn graphic at the top of every post to be very annoying. That, however, is somewhat ameliorated by how often the site fails to load or makes my browser freeze solid.
Germy
Whatever they say will be misrepresented tomorrow. RWNJs will make stuff up, and the networks will selectively edit.
Corner Stone
@BGinCHI: It’s not very interesting that so far all responses to this event have been various ways to kill or punish people somewhere else. No one , to my knowledge, has yet to say, “Hey, let’s uh…make things better in minute but measurable/noticeable potential ways?”
BGinCHI
@Corner Stone: Alternatively, it’s also “messing around militarily in the Middle East without a long range plan has consequences. And they are here now.”
Instead of only blaming the jihadis, which we can certainly do, I’d point a finger at the neo-cons before I’d point it at the poor, starving Syrian refugees.
srv
Qbama.
I’m sure all those Syrian refugees arriving will be completely vetted and ISIS would not make any attempt to seed jihadis into that population like they have for Europe.
For those curious, we’re going to let in more Syrians than we’ve let in Iraqis in the last decade.
Mike J
Some people really hate refugees.
SarahT
I think that any Dem response tonight should include this:
Neil deGrasse Tyson
@neiltyson
Nov 9
3,400: Americans who died by Terrorism since 2001 3,400: Americans who died by household Firearms since five weeks ago.***
***Because at least one American died in Paris last night, guess that makes the terrorism death toll 3401. Anyone know the gun violence death toll since Nov. 9 ?
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Okay, well played.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Derelict: If you install More Better Balloon Juice on Stylish – thank you The Other Chuck – you won’t see the same graphic, or the redundancies after Leave a Reply. Other things are much better also, too.
Elie
So much pain and turmoil ahead. These people know how to make us crazy and it will take a lot – a lot to keep even a semblance of balance in the years – yes years ahead. Pray for us
Benw
The terrorists want to sow fear, hatred, and chaos. With every successful attack, the racists and the warmongers give them exactly what they want. And gain power and influence while dragging the rest of us down with them. Why would either side want the other to actually go away?
Cervantes
@Benw:
Don’t we all?
p.a.
@BGinCHI:
Even with long range plans, you better have a plan B, C, D, E…
Maybe a Kennan- style containment of ISIS? Support Turkey, the Kurds, Shia Iraq (should we assume the Shiite/Sunni division is a done deal?), Jordan, Lebanon, Iran. Can we support Kurds without pissing off Turkey, Iran, what’s left of Iraq? Can we give support (and I’m not talking arms necessarily) without tainting those governments? Will our support lead to more repression in those nations (the only definite answer I think: yes it will).
A fraking mess.
Amir Khalid
It’s already been pointed out, but is worth repeating: the vast majority of these Syrian war refugees are trying to get away from the killers. Ted Cruz, that vile grandstanding little shit, is opposing an Obama proposal supported by Hillary because
— it’s an Obama proposal and Hillary supports it.
— Ted’s appealing to anti-Muslim prejudice among people whose votes he wants.
Hillary and Bernie should mention the humanitarian arguments for accepting Syrian refugees. I remember that another commenter here mentioned that potential refugees get the heck vetted out of them before any host country will let them stay. It’s worth pointing that out too. That’s all that needs to be said, really.
Betty Cracker
@Cervantes: No.
debbie
@BGinCHI:
No way that can be accomplished with soaring rhetoric, which is all he has.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
Or maybe both? Do you think the people planning and carrying out these attacks can be dissuaded from continuing their strategy?
Cervantes
@Betty Cracker:
No, you and I may not want to — but in the last twenty years, say, who do you think has done most to “sow fear, hatred, and chaos” in the Middle East?
Who are your top three candidates?
schrodinger's cat
It got lost in yesterday’s news from Paris but Ted Cruz has come out against legal immigration also. He is vile. May he never get anywhere near the levers of power.
schrodinger's cat
@Cervantes: Bush, Cheney and the ruling junta in Saudi Arabia.
Benw
@Cervantes: only with regard to the site redesign, otherwise no.
Cervantes
@schrodinger’s cat:
I’d take those.
How about the government of Israel? Or the government of Iran?
Emma
According to the news at the Guardian, one of the terrorists was a French national and another came in through Greece on a Syrian passport.
Not refugees.
p.a.
@Corner Stone:
Sadly, this begs the question, is the US even competent to do this any more? I’m trying to think; Marshall Plan/Japan, Camp David Accords (more Sadat than US IIRC), Clinton/Balkan intervention, Bretton Woods (yes a vehicle of US domination but also stability), containment/engagement with USSR (and even then, if Gorbachev had decided to use the army the SU could still exist), Nixon/China can be successes for peace. Against that; VietNam, Iran/Shah, longtime support of S. Africa, Cuba ‘policy’, Allende,
Bush’s Iraq/Palestine/our MidEast (and domestic energy) policy since the first oil embargo.
Doesn’t fill you with confidence.
Gary
Is there any way to get rid of the “Our most recent posts” section? It just takes up screen real estate without adding anything useful—the recent posts are right there on the page, or would be if they weren’t scrolled off the screen because of the damned “our most recent posts “section..
Omnes Omnibus
The Paris attackers hit the city’s young, progressive core. One of the things that can be done is to not allow terrorist attacks to stop people from living their lives. This is not Bush’s suggestion of going shopping following 9/11. This is about not letting an attack change who we are (both in France and here).
MattF
@schrodinger’s cat: Maybe it’s just me, but I have a sense that Cruz’s attempt to gain an edge with demagoguery on this issue is falling flat. We shall see.
p.a.
@MattF: Well he has lots of competition. It’s not like he’s off the beaten path in that crowd.
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree. Living well is the greatest revenge. Going about one’s business as usual. When I was in Mumbai last year I was staying in the area which was hit by the attacks of Nov 2008. Its the nerve center of the city.
A couple of the sites targeted were in my path, took a train from the station which was hit. People were going about their business as usual. If there was a plaque/s to commemorate the dead at the CST station or Metro Cinema or Cafe Mondegar, I did not see it.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Sadly, I think you may be right. And we weren’t the ones who were attacked last night.
schrodinger's cat
@MattF: His attempt may be falling flat but he is giving the other clowns ideas.
Cervantes
@Benw:
Touché!
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat: I was living in London at the time if the 1984 Brighton bombing. It made the front pages as it should, but people continued on with their lives. One learns to look a little askance at unattended baggage and things like that, but these are stunningly uncommon events. I hope people are out in restaurants and bars in Paris tonight.
benw
@Cervantes: site redesign jokes, the gift that keeps on giving! :)
debbie
@schrodinger’s cat:
I had to take a business trip (JFK to Florida) right after Lockerbie. You can bet there was lots of staring at others’ luggage in the long security lines.
Betty Cracker
@Cervantes: I don’t really know enough about world politics to provide a good answer. GWB would have to be on my list — seems like he was instrumental in enabling Cheney and the Israeli hardliners too, so I’ll let him stand in for them. The Saudi ruling family makes my list also. And maybe whichever corrupt asshole ruler in Africa who has caused the most death and misery.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@p.a.:
I replied back in what is probably now a dead thread but, just as the Vietnamese were the ones who successfully put an end to the killing fields in Cambodia, any lasting solution is going to have to come from Syria’s neighbors. And that means figuring out a way to get Saudi Arabia and Iran (to name just two) on the same page and working together.
There’s a reason Samantha Powers titled her book about this shit, The Problem From Hell. At this point, there’s really no way to solve it without people dying.
Mike G
@Derelict:
This.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Saudi Arabia and Iran, together? Surely, you jest.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat: @Omnes Omnibus: Paris tonight.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
I do expect them to get asked about it tonight.
I just got an e-mail from MO’M about it:
Excellent sentiments, and I agree with them.
But what one does beyond that is the question. I would hope we would have learned, and be able to apply, sensible lessons from the early 2000s.
Cheers,
Scott.
askew
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Thank you for posting that. I would hope to see those same sentiments echoed by Sanders and Hillary.
I am most curious to see if Hillary continues her run to the right on immigration. She has yet to issue an immigration plan, has skipped multiple immigration forums and bragged about voting multiple times for borders to keep out “illegal immigrants” just last week. For someone who consider refugee and immigration issues among the most important this election cycle, that was troubling language. I would hope she would take tonight to apologize for using that derogatory term and that she would not back away from taking in Syrian refugees.
askew
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
That’s what Kerry just announced in Vienna in part right? Saudi Arabia and Iran were included in the talks – http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-14/syrian-transition-plan-achieved-by-u-s-allies-kerry-says
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@schrodinger’s cat:
I guess I’m feeling a little Don Quixote today.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@schrodinger’s cat:
Broadway-related (but not “Hamilton”-related) link.
p.a.
@schrodinger’s cat: Britain and France were at each other’s throats for generations. France and Germany also. Of course it took war after war to beat it out of them.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (tablet): You’ve changed.
schrodinger's cat
@p.a.: Iran and Saudi Arabia haven’t arrived at that juncture yet. I hope they do so soon.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Omnes Omnibus:
I was apparently making myself the talk of the town.
But I think the fever is only in remission, so expect more “Hamilton” madness in future days.
dman
Anyone else find it odd that one would be carrying a passport with them on a suicide mission?
Makes about as much sense as finding a passport in the burning rubble of the towers.
Always need a proper boogeyman
Running Squid
@dman: I don’t find it unusual. Immigrants and people visiting foreign countries are typically supposed to carry these documents (or copies) with them. Its a normal and regular thing.
Libarbarian
@BGinCHI
JET FUEL CAN’T MELT SYRIAN PASSPORTS!!!
JET FUEL CAN’T MELT SYRIAN PASSPORTS!!!
JET FUEL CAN’T MELT SYRIAN PASSPORTS!!!
Libarbarian
Fact 1. Daesh said months ago “we’re going to sneak people in among refugees”
Fact 2. Attacker has Syrian passport and Greece has record of processing that person through as refugee.
Only possible conclusion: FALSE FLAG!! JET FUEL CAN’T MELT SYRIAN PASSPORTS!!!
Smh