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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This fight is for everything.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

I really should read my own blog.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Let me file that under fuck it.

He really is that stupid.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

The revolution will be supervised.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

This blog will pay for itself.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: Hey, Christians — RTFM!

Open Thread: Hey, Christians — RTFM!

by Anne Laurie|  November 17, 20155:27 pm| 223 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Religious Nuts, Republican Venality, Assholes

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You might not like Republicans calling for a ban on refugees. But it's smart politics. https://t.co/n2eW1umGrx pic.twitter.com/IC2RQDm2v7

— Chris Cillizza (@TheFix) November 17, 2015

You may not like appealing to the supremacy of the German race, but it was smart politics. https://t.co/zLv26NRej3

— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) November 17, 2015

US Jul ’38: What’s your attitude towards allowing German, Austrian & other political refugees to come into the US? pic.twitter.com/7hMfLbXWFE

— Historical Opinion (@HistOpinion) November 16, 2015

Matthew 25:41 – King James version:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Conservatives are going to spend the entire run up to the election preaching white hot fear, aren't they? https://t.co/1zhglXFvkL

— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) November 17, 2015

“I’m sorry, Pastor Erickson, but that theological degree isn’t a get-out-of-your-obligations-free card. You really should have read the operating manual, while you had the chance.”

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223Comments

  1. 1.

    ? Martin

    November 17, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    Good job GOP. Your limitless cowardice has resulted in you being on the wrong policy side with two of your biggest religious lobbies:

    Two of the country’s largest and most influential religious groups, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the National Association of Evangelicals, are urging the United States not to halt the resettlement of Syrian refugees after the deadly terrorist attack in Paris last Friday.

    “Of course we want to keep terrorists out of our country, but let’s not punish the victims of ISIS for the sins of ISIS,” Leith Anderson, NAE president, said on Tuesday.

  2. 2.

    jckramer

    November 17, 2015 at 5:36 pm

    It isn’t fear, it’s hatred. Americans are really good at hate. Fear is just the icing on the hatred cake.

  3. 3.

    Anoniminous

    November 17, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    Holy McGoly, Batman. Russia dropped 500 tons of ordinance on ISIS today.

    The Putin worship starts in … 4 … 3 … 2 …

  4. 4.

    MattF

    November 17, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    I’m repeating myself here, but compassion is at the core of faith. I’m tired of trying to figure out what so-called Christians are up to, so here‘s a link on compassion in Buddhism.

  5. 5.

    Tom Levenson

    November 17, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    Preach it A-L!

  6. 6.

    Chris

    November 17, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    Good job GOP. Your limitless cowardice has resulted in you being on the wrong policy side with two of your biggest religious lobbies:

    Not to worry. Plenty of Catholic and evangelical voters will once again be happy to side with their party over their religion, even if their leadership doesn’t.

  7. 7.

    Iowa Old Lady

    November 17, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    This reminds me of the hysteria over Ebola before the 2014 election. We were all going to die! An Ebola free nurse had to be quarantine no matter what the law was! Then the election happened and apparently Ebola was cured because I never heard anything more about it.

    Which shows how fear was being ginned up for political purposes.

  8. 8.

    JPL

    November 17, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    This was on the NYTimes updates.
    Thomas de Maiziere, the German interior minister, said that that would be unusual for a bona fide migrant, and he suggested on Tuesday that the passport found at the bombing scene might be a “false trail” placed deliberately by the Islamic State attackers to turn public opinion against Syrian refugees.

    Well it worked.

  9. 9.

    ? Martin

    November 17, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    @Anoniminous:

    Russia dropped 500 tons of ordinance on ISIS today.

    Mostly dumb bombs. Not much improved over WWII carpet bombing, or barrel bombs. Get lots of dead children that way.

  10. 10.

    p.a.

    November 17, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    What’s the relationship of the NAE to the Focus on Family-style fraud groups? And the Cat’lic bishops will be ignored by CatCons just like they ignore the (as I’ve heard him ‘smeared’ (to them it was)) ‘Jesuit’ Pope.

  11. 11.

    Darkrose

    November 17, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Today’s conservative so-called Christians would have had zero time for the couple with the new baby fleeing a massacre (especially since the victims were post-born). And if you told them the kid would grow up to be a radical preacher, they’d be ready to start hammering in the nails immediately.

  12. 12.

    dedc79

    November 17, 2015 at 5:48 pm

    From the Vox link at the end:

    If you are really worried about a crazy person killing you inside a movie theater, you shouldn’t be worried about foreign terrorists, most of whom have no idea where Macon, Georgia, is. You should be worried about garden-variety crazy people, like the guy who murdered 12 people in a Colorado movie theater in 2012, or the other guy who shot 11 people in a Louisiana movie theater in 2015. Between 2000 and 2010, gun violence killed more than 100,000 people, while terrorist attacks killed around 3,000.

  13. 13.

    Bubblegum Tate

    November 17, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    Fortunately this batshit crazy Marco Rubio fanfic has all the answers for defeating ISIS. Here’s a taste:

    With Raqqa flattened, the President went on television to announce that America was again at war. Most Americans supported him. After all, he had been elected in the wake of the events of October 12, 2016, when ISIS sleepers in America had struck at shopping malls across the country. While the killers in Phoenix and Dallas had been unable to murder more than a half dozen because of armed citizens (police credited dead terrorists to a retired schoolteacher with a Glock 19 and an insurance salesman carrying a Kimber M1911A1), hundreds of defenseless Americans were massacred in gun-free shopping malls in Los Angeles and Chicago.

    “Our goal is simple. We are going to destroy ISIS and kill its members. There will be no negotiations, no hesitation, no hands tied behind our backs. They wanted war. They will have it,” said the President. The new GOP Senate majority leader dispensed with the filibuster, and the declaration of war passed easily. The President also announced that all Americans must pay their fair share to support the war effort, and imposed a temporary 7% payroll tax on working Americans. Those not working must also pay their fair share too, he said; he signed a bill cutting all social programs 7% and shifting the savings to the military. The Democrats went ballistic; the President’s approval rating hit 60%.

  14. 14.

    p.a.

    November 17, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    @MattF: In Thailand, possibly Myanmar, there has been majority Buddhist violence against Muslims. No one immune.

  15. 15.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 17, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    Speaking of religion:
    I am listening to the late great exponent of Hindustani classical music Bhimsen Joshi, singing in Marathi, devotional songs composed more than 500 years ago called abhangas. Very Zen.
    Abhangas are a part of the corpus of saint poets of the Bhakti movement which was Hinduism’s reform movement. The saint poets translated Sanskrit scriptures in Marathi and also composed prayers in Marathi and other local languages. The Bhakti movement was huge in Maharashtra from the 12th to 17th century.
    Bhakti movement was egalitarian, these abhangas are in Marathi and anyone can recite them, gender or caste no bar. Unlike Sanskrit which was the exclusive preserve of Brahmin men. Instead of a permanent schism like Christianity the Bhakti movement was eventually absorbed into the mainstream Hinduism, at least in Maharashtra.
    An example, Majhe Maher Pandhari : Translation: Pandhari (Pandharpur) is my mom’s home.

  16. 16.

    JMG

    November 17, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    Our society is no longer capable of bearing the burdens of constitutional democracy. Too frightened, too ignorant, too apathetic, or all of the above.

  17. 17.

    MattF

    November 17, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    @? Martin: Yeah, but ‘smart’ weapons require smart targeting. I don’t think anyone has sufficient information to pick out significant targets in ISIS-controlled areas.

  18. 18.

    Bubblegum Tate

    November 17, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    @? Martin:

    Good job GOP. Your limitless cowardice has resulted in you being on the wrong policy side with two of your biggest religious lobbies:

    Nah, wingnuts have already split the difference: They’re saying we should only admit Christian refugees.

  19. 19.

    craigie

    November 17, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    @dedc79:

    Those are just facts. They don’t matter.

  20. 20.

    burnspbesq

    November 17, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    @? Martin:

    Get lots of dead children that way.

    Think Putin gives a damn?

  21. 21.

    SatanicPanic

    November 17, 2015 at 5:52 pm

    I really hope conservatives are too afraid to go see Star Wars at the movies, because I was worried I’d have to wait until January with all the people planning on going

  22. 22.

    Roger Moore

    November 17, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    @Anoniminous:

    The Putin worship starts in … 4 … 3 … 2 …

    What do you mean “starts”? The authoritarians in this country have never given up worshiping Putin, especially when he’s allegedly making Obama look bad.

  23. 23.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    I was disappointed by Sanders on terrorism and the ME at the debate, I thought not strong enough.
    But I think he did better yesterday.

    Terrorism Will Not Strike Fear in American Hearts | Bernie Sanders
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQapCcpjUnY

    Don’t have time to look for anything from HRC, but would be interested if anyone has a link.

  24. 24.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 17, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    @JMG: GOP: Home of the perpetually scared.

  25. 25.

    trollhattan

    November 17, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    @? Martin:
    That’s a lot of ordinance. Where’d they find all that paper?

    Over on our side of the pond, Florida Woman and Manatee Man are at it, hammer and tire. I want to marry that headline.

    Woman charged with running over ex-husband’s foot after fight over sex at storage facility

    MANATEE, Fla.

    A 45-year-old woman was charged with domestic abuse after running over her ex-husband’s foot after an argument about having sex in the rear of a storage unit, according to the Manatee County Sheriff’s Office.

    Wendy Luper was married to the victim for 12 years, divorced and has gotten back together with him in the past six months, according to an arrest report. The two went to a storage unit in the 5700 block of 14th Street West at 6:54 p.m. Saturday to get some of the victim’s stuff.

    While parked in the rear of the facility, Luper undressed and asked the victim if he wanted to have sex, according to deputies. He agreed and told Luper to lay down, but she said no because she didn’t want to have sex in that position.

    The two began to argue, and the victim decided to go for a walk to “avoid an altercation.” When he returned Luper was parked in front of the facility waiting, and told the victim to get his stuff out of the car and denied his request for a ride by telling him to “(expletive) off,” according to the report.

    The victim started collecting his possessions from the car, and Luper threw an unknown object at his head, making him fall back, deputies said. Luper continued yelling at him, and as he was trying to take items out of the car she accelerated, driving over the victim’s right foot.

  26. 26.

    dedc79

    November 17, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    @JMG:

    Our society is no longer capable of bearing the burdens of constitutional democracy. Too frightened, too ignorant, too apathetic, or all of the above.

    I challenge you to pick a point in American history when we pass any of the metrics we’re failing right now.

  27. 27.

    D58826

    November 17, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    Just listening to the Chuckles and MCNutts show (so you don’t have to). According to McNutts we should not partner with Russia to fight ISIS since their goals and values differ from ours (luckily FDR and Churchill didn’t follow that advice in 1942). We should not partner with Iran either because they are evil. 10k American troops and some unnamed local partners will knock out Deseah without much of a problem. Then we can knock out Asad and put a modern secular government in his place. So easy. In the meantime Huckleberry is highlighting the half dozen or so terrorist attacks by Muslims in this country. He was quite upset about the Marathon bombers and since they came to this country as kids it makes sense to ban 3 year old’s like Christie wants. He is very concerned about our school kids being murdered by some Muslim, never mind Adam Lanza and the 20 six year olds at Sandy Hook.

    Now without downplaying the horror of these attacks or the evil of Deseah I wonder if I’m missing something. Deseah has maybe 50-60k fighters spread across mostly desert north west Iraq and south east Syria. They are surrounded by hostile Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, and Syria. How in any conceivable way are they a serious threat to the US/Europe or civilization in general. Over the past 5 weeks they have carried out terror attacks in Turkey, Egypt, Beirut and Paris with 530 or so killed. In the US alone 30k people die in traffic accidents each year. There is probably a similar death toll in Europe. In the US we kill another 30k a year in gun related violence.

    SO why are we running around like it is the recreation of Nazi Germany?

  28. 28.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    Steve Benen ‏@stevebenen 18h18 hours ago

    Obama showed some real leadership today. Lesser pres might’ve chosen easy way out

    49 retweets 55 likes

    Jonathan Allen ‏@jonallendc 21h21 hours ago

    Obama delivering a powerful defense of American concepts of religious protection.

    17 retweets 19 likes

    Ryan Lizza ‏@RyanLizza 17h17 hours ago

    Obama’s full remarks today are worth reading. No Dem or GOP candidate has come close to grappling w/complexities of fighting ISIS as he did.

    270 retweets 282 likes

    Matt Apuzzo ‏@mattapuzzo 21h21 hours ago

    This is the most I’ve ever heard Obama sound like the career national security professionals my colleagues, competitors and I talk to daily.

    36 retweets 22 likes

    Sahil Kapur ‏@sahilkapur 21h21 hours ago

    Obama is again expressing his contempt for instinctive militarism and bravado.

    68 retweets 62 likes

    LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 16h16 hours ago

    We have nothing to fear but those who mistake fear for strength.

    95 retweets 126 likes

  29. 29.

    ? Martin

    November 17, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    @MattF: Yeah, that’s why it’s been pretty selective stuff. Hitting oil trucks, the limited military vehicles, etc. From the sounds of it they’re using drones to scout an area and then sending in jets to hit what they happen to spot. Not terribly strategic.

    However, blowing up children sends a stronger message.

  30. 30.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 17, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    There was apparently a gun scare at G’s old high school in Oak Park (IL) and swear to god the first fucking comment on the news site was that it had to be ISIS. Because if it’s been horses the previous 100 times this has happened, it’s gotta be zebras now, right?

  31. 31.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    National GOP poll – UMass

    Trump………….31%
    Carson…………22%
    Cruz…………….13%
    Rubio…………….9%
    Fiorina………….4%
    ¿Jeb?………….. 3% ◄

    Can anyone stop the ¿Rubiomentum?

    Katy Tur ‏@KatyTurNBC 12h12 hours ago

    At Trump rally, 1st a Christian prayer then volunteer intros,”I like Trump bc he’s gonna send those Syrians home”, then star spangled banner

    36 retweets 35 likes

    Praise Jesus!

  32. 32.

    SatanicPanic

    November 17, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    @dedc79: My favorite response to any complaint about Americans- we used to be worse!

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    November 17, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    @JPL:

    Well it worked.

    The whole process worked, but the fake passport was just the icing on the cake. The freakout over refugees was well underway before the attack.

  34. 34.

    Running Squid

    November 17, 2015 at 6:03 pm

    @JPL: This is just someone else saying maybe. Everyone is to quick to double down on the side they were already on.

  35. 35.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:03 pm

    If you need a feel good moment from France, see here (h/t Reddit).

  36. 36.

    Roger Moore

    November 17, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    Fortunately this batshit crazy Marco Rubio fanfic has all the answers for defeating ISIS.

    I can hear the fapping without even needing to follow the link.

  37. 37.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    @jl: I saw that. I was proud of him.

    Last month he had repeated dodged the issue on Chris Hayes show. At one point, Hayes, a Sanders supporter, described Sanders’s dodging as “claptrap”.

    It takes a big person to recognize his or her error and change and he did.

  38. 38.

    Gimlet

    November 17, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    More from the Xenophobe

    The Obama administration is deliberately sending Syrian refugees to states led by Republican governors, Donald Trump alleged Tuesday.

    Trump, who was speaking to conservative radio host Laura Ingraham, said of the refugees, “They send them to the Republicans, not to the Democrats, you know because they know the problem … why would we want to bother the Democrats?”

    “In California, you have a Democrat as a governor; in Florida you have Rick Scott so they send them to the Republicans,” Trump told Ingraham. “Taking these people is absolutely insanity.”

  39. 39.

    piratedan

    November 17, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    @jl: terrorism may not strike fear into the hearts of Americans, but not if CNN and Faux news have anything to say about it

  40. 40.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    Looks to me like the US Christians are winning the war against our modern day Christmas story.

    Away in a war zone
    No home and no bed
    The little Syrian boy
    Washed up on the shore dead

  41. 41.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    @Bubblegum Tate: hilarious. cut social security 7% and seniors will drag little marco out of the white house and tar and feather him.

  42. 42.

    ? Martin

    November 17, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    @burnspbesq: Not at this moment. Not sure Hollande cares either, for that matter. We sure as fuck didn’t care in 2002.

    What do you want to bet that in the next month we make amends with Al-Assad and the non-ISIS rebels and Kurds so the US, Russia, France, Iran, Iraq and others can make a concerted go at this? We put up with Stalin for 5 years, after all. There will be a semi-coherent strategy going into the election, and whatever shitshow emerges from that motley coalition will fall on the next WH occupant.

  43. 43.

    Stacy

    November 17, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    I’m not religious in the least bit, but Dog help us.

  44. 44.

    dedc79

    November 17, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    @SatanicPanic: In fairness, I was responding to an assertion that we’re worse now than we once were.

  45. 45.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    @D58826: I can understand your point, but the cars are not intelligent opponents plotting to kill us all and wanting ever more death and destruction. So, that is why the small numbers of deaths and injuries loom large. Sort of like, well, only a few hundred are dead in some new Ebola outbreak, so why worry so much. Well, you don’t worry, the numbers go up.

    There are plenty of very practical and pragmatic reasons to help with the refugees as well as moral and ethical ones. Tukey, Jordan and Lebanon have over 3 million Syrian refugees. Think about that. We tell them to eff off and they can worry about the refugees on their own selves, how much will they be willing and able to help? (though, by GOP logic we could just order them too in loud voice and resolve and they would surely do whatever we want whenever we want.)

    It appears that even if a refugee was involved (which is still uncertain) most of the plot was due to Belgian and French nationals and residents, so avoiding alienation and isolation of those communities seems more important than freaking out over (perhaps) one out of hundreds of thousands of refugees. It seems like forgetting far more than half of the potential threat.

    If the GOP can block admission of refugees (who are from Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey, IIRC) then Obama should ask the GOP how much dough the GOP is willing to cough up to help our ALLIES in the fight against ISIS/Daesh to cope with the problem. Not very much is my bet.

    As Sanders more or less said, these people talk tough, and then rush into stupid things and make a huge mess.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    @? Martin: Sounds plausible.

  47. 47.

    Mary G

    November 17, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    @Baud: That clip was awesome, and made me tear up a little. What a great dad. “France is our home.”

    It was also awesome that it opened over the page, I watched and closed it and I was still right there on your comment. Excellent redesign element now that it works, Tommy! I also like the dotted grey line between the comments.

  48. 48.

    Gex

    November 17, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    @? Martin: They can’t alienate the Bishops or the evangelicals. They can disagree on the refugees, but they will never abandon the GOP on women’s and gay issues. They’ve been able to live with wars they disapprove of and executions they disapprove of. Hell, they’ve been able to live with the steady impoverishment of the white working class. So long as they agree that women and gays are lesser, they will be the best of buds.

  49. 49.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    @Gimlet:

    ” why would we want to bother the Democrats? ”

    That is so damn weird. Jerry Brown made a statement today that California will accept refugees, no problem. As far as I am concerned, they can come to California. Better to keep the bigots away.

  50. 50.

    geg6

    November 17, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    How can I continue to live in this country when I have nothing but contempt for the majority of my fellow Americans?

  51. 51.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 17, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Another antidote to the GOP ugly: Gandhi’s favorite bhajan, by the saint poet Narsi Mehta from Gandhi’s (and Modi’s too) native Gujarat. The bhajan is in Gujarati, the language of the state of Gujarat.

    Vaishnav jan to tene kahiye, peed parayee jane re Sung by a Muslim Qawwali troupe.
    Translation: Only one who understands the pain of others is a Vaishnav (devotee of Vishnu)

  52. 52.

    Patrick

    November 17, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    @D58826:

    In the meantime Huckleberry is highlighting the half dozen or so terrorist attacks by Muslims in this country.

    Hasn’t there been more attacks by Christians in this country during the same time frame with abortion clinic attacks etc.?

    BTW – If Muslims harassed women the way Christians harass the poor women going to the abortion clinics, we wouldn’t hear the end of it.

  53. 53.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    @? Martin:

    What do you want to bet that in the next month we make amends with Al-Assad…

    I predict that Putin will broker an Assad replacement that is acceptable to the Russians. Assad v2 will control an area large enough to include Tartus.

  54. 54.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 6:26 pm

    Reuters Poll — Nov 14 to 16 (Page 4)

    Should US deploy ground troops against ISIS in Syria?

    No……………………76%
    Yes…………………………24%

    A 3 to 1 margin. That’s what you call a fucking rout.

  55. 55.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    @David Koch:

    But if you ask those same people, they will say Obama is “weak” and they will not approve of the direction of his foreign policy with respect to ISIS.

  56. 56.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    @David Koch: Good. Hopefully that 76% will do something with their opinions.

  57. 57.

    Chris

    November 17, 2015 at 6:29 pm

    @geg6:
    How can I continue to live in this country when I have nothing but contempt for the majority of my fellow Americans?

    I ask myself that frequently. Won’t say “majority,” but “half” seems adequate.

    @MomSense:

    That’s what I’d put my money on, yes. Assad goes, his regime stays the same, with our tacit approval.

  58. 58.

    D58826

    November 17, 2015 at 6:29 pm

    @jl: I realize that we tend to react much more strongly to the low-probability but gruesome event (think shark attacks) then the more mundane risks of daily life. The most dangerous part of the trip is the car ride to the airport but people still fear flying. The thing is our ‘leaders’ have to get past that and get the rest of us past it also. Otherwise we will go charging off and getting involved in another land war that we can’t win just because of a couple of terrorist attacks. Attacks that were designed to do just that. We need a bit more Spock and a bit less McCoy.

  59. 59.

    Patrick

    November 17, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    @jl:

    Terrorism Will Not Strike Fear in American Hearts

    Then why did Sanders oppose closing Gitmo?

  60. 60.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    @D58826: I don’t think that’s fair to McCoy.

  61. 61.

    dedc79

    November 17, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    Kasich Proposes New Government Agency To Promote Judeo-Christian Values

    It’s a serious pet peeve of mine when Christian zealots (like Kasich) stick “Judeo” in front of “Christian” to make whatever they’re selling sound less like the 21st century Crusade that it actually is.

  62. 62.

    maya

    November 17, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    This is a golden opportunity for Depend® (emphasis on Men’s Maximum) to buy a spot at the next Repo debate.

  63. 63.

    D58826

    November 17, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    @Baud: Probably not but was thinking of the more emotional rersponse

  64. 64.

    BR

    November 17, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    @D58826:

    The most dangerous part of the trip is the car ride to the airport but people still fear flying.

    I’m not sure that’s true. Only the per-mile risk is significantly lower with flying, but most flights are significantly longer than the car ride to the airport, so in total it’s probably higher.

  65. 65.

    scav

    November 17, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    @Patrick: Haven’t you noticed that ‘mercan Christians are pre-forgiven for all their actions? For multiple misdeeds according to Our Lady of Wasilla. Only non-Christians are held to account for non-compliance with the niggling bothersome details of forbidden behavior. Asserting Christainity is thus all the evidence needed of being a good person — not forgetting that behaving exactly as the bible tells without the brand-logo of Christianity in no way indicates you are a moral person.

  66. 66.

    trollhattan

    November 17, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    @David Koch:
    Think you mis-typed “27%” there. Yeah, it adds up to 103% but that just so happens to be the percentage of America’s Awesomeness.

  67. 67.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    Jindal is out!

    Gilmore is still in!

  68. 68.

    Chris

    November 17, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    @Baud:

    McCoy would be demanding that the U.S. throw its doors open and take in every refugee.

  69. 69.

    Chris

    November 17, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    @dedc79:

    Christ.

    And this is the “serious” “moderate” of the GOP?

  70. 70.

    dedc79

    November 17, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    @Chris: I know, right? Terrifying….

  71. 71.

    trollhattan

    November 17, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    @Baud:
    And there, on the Republican primary battlefield, died the nation’s dream of President Kenneth the Page. [sadface]

  72. 72.

    slag

    November 17, 2015 at 6:40 pm

    My favorite contribution to this discussion was Obama essentially calling out Republican leaders for being unAmerican: http://qz.com/551441/watch-barack-obama-take-a-stand-against-a-religious-test-for-refugees/.

    So many of the differences between Dems and Repubs really come down to what we value most about this country. I wish that fundamental reality wouldn’t get continually clouded by all this “big government/small government” mommy/daddy bullshit. It really is a distraction with no foundation in reality.

  73. 73.

    Chris

    November 17, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    @dedc79:

    I said yesterday that even if we ever got serious about rebuilding and reshaping Middle Eastern countries we invaded Marshall Plan style, I could no longer imagine that happening without a unified push from the GOP to insert a strong component of Christian-Right-missionarism into the mission (ten years ago, yes; today, no). Looks like I was right.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    @Chris:

    Christ.

    And this is the “serious” “moderate” of the GOP?

    Kasich’s plan is already bearing fruit.

  75. 75.

    Iowa Old Lady

    November 17, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    Jindal is apparently dropping out of the race. Not that it makes any difference to anyone but him.

    ETA: Candidate Baud beat me to it.

  76. 76.

    D58826

    November 17, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    @Baud: He said it wasn’t his time. It will NEVER be his time

  77. 77.

    Belafon

    November 17, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    @dedc79: The Department for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice.

  78. 78.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    Piyush Jindal issues executive order banning Syrian immigrants.

  79. 79.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    @Patrick: Well, Sanders claims that the proposal to close Gitmo was a scam, and the prisoners would still be denied due process even when in the US.

    You might think that is BS, and Sanders did it because he was scared. If he was a demagogue spreading panic about it to the public, like the GOP is now, let me know.

  80. 80.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    @David Koch: Might have been his last act as a presidential candidate. So, it is historic!

  81. 81.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 6:49 pm

    @D58826:

    Sure, I agree. No reason to panic. But like a communicable disease epidemic, terrorism can have its own internal and explosive (no pun intended) dynamic. Different from random traffic accidents or being hit by a meteor. Need to be calm and smart, but need to approach small numbers differently too.

  82. 82.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    @maya: Thanks for financial play. I’m buying right now.

  83. 83.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 17, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    @BR:

    I’m not even sure that’s true — fatal plane crashes in the US and most of the developed world are almost vanishingly rare now. We’ve had some oddball events in the past few years that would skew the statistics (like the disappearance of that Malaysia Air flight, and the other one that was shot down) but crashes due to mechanical failures like we saw in the 1970s or 1980s are very rare today.

  84. 84.

    D58826

    November 17, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    Another bit from Huffington

    WASHINGTON — The Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the attacks in Paris Friday night, which killed 129 people and injured many more, renewing the discussion about how the U.S. should respond to the militant group. But experts say this debate is obscuring a larger point about America’s relationship with terrorism: Put frankly, even the best-calibrated response to the Islamic State, also known as ISIS, will never fully expunge the threat.
    “We cannot eradicate terrorism any more than we can eradicate armed robbery,” said Andrew Bacevich, a military analyst who was one of the more vocal skeptics in the run-up to the Iraq War. “The best we can hope for is to reduce it to tolerable proportions.”
    “Eliminating or eradicating the threat is impossible,” said Richard Haass, the chair of the Council on Foreign Relations. “We could be 99.99% effective and there would still be enough people to cause real harm. The goal should be to reduce — dramatically — the scale of the threat and what it can accomplish.”

    The best we can do is not due something stupid and make the situation worse.

  85. 85.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    @D58826: As Kerry said in 2004 and for which he got reamed.

  86. 86.

    dedc79

    November 17, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    @Belafon: Kasich would probably take that name and run with it unless/until someone got around to telling him where it came from.

  87. 87.

    BobS

    November 17, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    @D58826: Your confidence in Turkey may be misplaced.

  88. 88.

    oldgold

    November 17, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    I am not sure the GOP wants the Presidential race to focus on foreign affairs/security. They do not have a candidate that has any experience in this area. Zip! On the other hand, we do. And, they have spent the last quarter century defining her as a ruthless bitch. Just sayin’.

  89. 89.

    Eric S.

    November 17, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    Question: When I look at the site on my cell phone the most recent post on the front page is Cole’s “I’m Back.” I can use the arrows on individual posts to move beyond that. It is not a problem on my laptop. Is this a known problem with the redesign or is this an individual issue for me?

  90. 90.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    @oldgold: My thought as well.

  91. 91.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Mnem, I don’t think I knew that G and I went to the same high school (presumably at very different times). Is he a native Oak Parker?

    To your point, alas, they are as crazy and irrational there as anywhere in the country.

  92. 92.

    jl

    November 17, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    @BobS: Yes, left on its own, Turkey will use an effort against ISIS to mess with the Kurds. But that is not a reason to not try to get a deal with them that will produce more good than harm.

  93. 93.

    Running Squid

    November 17, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    @D58826: It also has to do with control. When driving you have control of the car and even if something happens (another person is dui and hits you) you still have at least some control to minimize the problems. While flying you rely entirely on another. Control or at least perceived is very important for what makes people scared.

  94. 94.

    D58826

    November 17, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    @BobS: Maybe. On the other hand ISIS may have bitten off more than it can chew with Putin. The Russians would have no problem turning the ISIS area into an unlivable waste land if need be.

  95. 95.

    Hal

    November 17, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    Sigh. I’m just in one of those moods where I’m deeply disappointed in this country as a whole right now. Not just the blatant politicization of this refugee crisis and the sudden lack of compassion, but everything the past few years. Reminds me of one of my favorite dialogues from Angels in America:

    I hate America. I hate this country. It’s just big ideas, and stories, and people dying, and people like you. The white cracker who wrote the national anthem knew what he was doing. He set the word ‘free’ to a note so high nobody can reach it. That was deliberate. Nothing on earth sounds less like freedom to me. You come to room 1013 over at the hospital, I’ll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean. I live in America, that’s hard enough, I don’t have to love it. You do that. Everybody’s got to love something.

  96. 96.

    Chris

    November 17, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    @Hal:

    Yeah, I sympathize with that exhaustion. The era of the teabaggers has done more to destroy my faith in humanity than the era of George W. Bush did.

  97. 97.

    Calouste

    November 17, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    @Bubblegum Tate: That’s some way out there fantasy. I mean, a Republican president raising taxes??

  98. 98.

    trollhattan

    November 17, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    @D58826:
    Vlad’s put himself in a box with the dual mission of protecting Assad and now, kicking some ISIS ass for downing a Russian passenger jet. He was spending most of his efforts on the other rebels, some of whom were also being harassed by ISIS, making them somewhat useful to Vlad.

    Pity.

  99. 99.

    Tazj

    November 17, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    @D58826: Well, Daesh isn’t Nazi Germany but if Republicans really believe they are they shouldn’t quibble about teaming up with Russia and Iran to defeat them. It’s not like Stalin wasn’t horrible but we couldn’t have defeated Nazi Germany without him and the Russian people.

  100. 100.

    srv

    November 17, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    @Baud: Cuck Down!

  101. 101.

    BobS

    November 17, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    @D58826: Maybe? You need to familiarize yourself with the role Turkey has played getting fighters/weapons in and oil out of eastern Syria. They may be “hostile”, but ISIS is not the primary target of their hostility.

  102. 102.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    USA Today:
    Steve Jobs’ biological father was Syrian migrant, some note

  103. 103.

    Steeplejack

    November 17, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    @Eric S.:

    It is a known problem.

    When I call up the front page on my phone—which I rarely do, because I navigate almost always from one post to the next one—the top post showing is an old one (Adam Silverman’s from yesterday), but when I press the browser refresh button the page updates to the current status. Does that not work for you?

  104. 104.

    danielx

    November 17, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    Since it’s an open thread….I needed a Tunch fix today. Decided to use the google machine on Tunch, and of the pics that came up, two of the first eleven on the pic page were of the late great magnificent fat bastard.

  105. 105.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    November 17, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    @Eric S.: I think it’s both. I’ve been trying to recreate it on the various platform and browser combinations available to me, and I can’t.

    Which suggests that there is some setting that I should be able to find that would fix it for other people.

    I will note that this has been a chronic complaint for years about how certain browsers interact with cache manifests. I just don’t know enough to say if it’s WP not properly updating the cache or the browser not properly responding to said update.

  106. 106.

    bk

    November 17, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    @BR: Nope. Per passenger miles, there is a 300% greater risk of getting killed in a motor vehicle accident than in a commercial airplane accident. Per NHTSA statistics.

  107. 107.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    @Hal:

    Sigh. I’m just in one of those moods where I’m deeply disappointed in this country as a whole right now. Not just the blatant politicization of this refugee crisis and the sudden lack of compassion, but everything the past few years. Reminds me of one of my favorite dialogues from Angels in America:

    Yes, I’m right there with you.

  108. 108.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    @danielx: Tunch was one fine-looking cat.

  109. 109.

    Steeplejack

    November 17, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    FWIW, my (Android) cell phone appears to be running the “old” version of the Balloon Juice mobile site. I assume it will be replaced by a new version at some point, but for now it’s way better than the scaled-down, micro-sized version of the desktop site that came on November 1.

    I was thinking maybe the back-end work they have been doing has resulted in the old mobile version not being properly or regularly updated.

  110. 110.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 17, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    @MomSense: There are a lot of decent people in this country. Unfortunately most of them have the megaphones that the purveyors of hatred do.

  111. 111.

    slag

    November 17, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    @Hal: @Chris: I feel like Cab Calloway telling Jake and Elwood that they need to get to church, but seriously, watch the Obama speech: http://qz.com/551441/watch-barack-obama-take-a-stand-against-a-religious-test-for-refugees/. Not only was he made in America, he was elected by America. Not too shabby.

  112. 112.

    raven

    November 17, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    Tweety is off the fucking rails again. Everyone he has on ends up getting screamed at that Syrians need to stand up and fight for their country. I’d just love to kick his fucking ass.

  113. 113.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 17, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: * Most of them don’t

    FYWP won’t let me edit my comment.

  114. 114.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    So Bobby Jindal is out…

    Mostly everyone in Louisiana was like… really…really

  115. 115.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    @lamh36: Can Pataki be far behind?

  116. 116.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    @raven: Fuq tweety.

    Is his wife still running for office? If so, one would hope she’d tell him STFU, or is she running as a Republican?

  117. 117.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    My Baud 2016 was stolen from my lawn. This is the third one stolen.

    I think the college students are hanging them in their dorms.

  118. 118.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    It’s sad. It takes so much effort to break through the media stranglehold. When it comes to terrorism, the fear is vastly disproportionate to the threat but fear sells so it is amplified by our media and too many of our politicians.

  119. 119.

    Steeplejack

    November 17, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    @lamh36:

    Heh, love your GIFs. One for every occasion.

  120. 120.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    @raven:

    I would love for you to kick his fucking ass.

  121. 121.

    p.a.

    November 17, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    @dedc79: let the ‘Judeos’ disagree with the ‘christians’ on said policy and watch how fast the ‘christians’ drop the ‘Judeos’ from the equation.

  122. 122.

    Calouste

    November 17, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    It says something about the GOP primary race that out of the four current/recent governors, three of them are the first three candidates to drop out.

  123. 123.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    @Germy:

    I hear college kids like to get high contemplating my presidency.

  124. 124.

    shell

    November 17, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    Our glorious governor , Chris Christie, has done them one better. He insists he wouldn’t even let in a toddler refugee.
    Oh, Chris, its hard to imagine you sinking any lower in the basic human decency department. Why won’t you follow Jindal and give it up already?

  125. 125.

    TaMara (BHF)

    November 17, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    @David Koch: That was the best link I’ve seen all day.

  126. 126.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    @Baud: Pass the bubbling sherlock and vote for Baud

  127. 127.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    JoshDorner
    Hillary to give major national security address on Thursday in NYC at the 92nd St Y.

  128. 128.

    Zinsky

    November 17, 2015 at 7:41 pm

    Deuteronomy 10:15 – “You shall love the stranger, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt”.

    Matthew 25:35 – “I was hungry and you gave me food. I was thirsty and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you welcomed me”.

    If these right-wing tools want to trumpet their “Judeo-Christian” values as being so superior, they damn well better know what their sacred texts say!

  129. 129.

    Redshift

    November 17, 2015 at 7:41 pm

    @p.a.: Nah, it’s not like they’re paying any attention to them anyway. They only include “Judeo-” to pretend they represent all of ‘Murica’s founding principles (instead of just their twisted cult), not because they give a thought to what actual Jews think.

  130. 130.

    Eric S.

    November 17, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Manually clearing the cache brought my phone up to date. I should have thought of that. Thanks.

  131. 131.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 17, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    He is — his mom and aunt still live in River Forest and both of his siblings are in OP. My family is from the North Shore, but we met out here in CA.

  132. 132.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    @bk:

    Nope. Per passenger miles, there is a 300% greater risk of getting killed in a motor vehicle accident than in a commercial airplane accident. Per NHTSA statistics.

    And most drives to the airport are less than 1/3 the length of the plane trip, so on average, BR is right: the plane flight is more dangerous than the drive to the airport.

  133. 133.

    J R in WV

    November 17, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    I feel like I need to explain 2+2 is four, and how a,b,c works to the Republicans. Here goes:

    The purpose of terrorism and terrorists is to commit ghastly acts which induce paralyzing fear in their target audience, like NYC 14 years ago and Paris last weekend. Their goal is fear, terror and an inability to make good fact based strategic plans. And the Republicans might as well be members of their cult.

    By acting out their disrespect of President Obama at the moment when we need to be united against an external enemy, by helping ordinary people to become fearful in a situation where no one in the US needs to fear a personal loss, the Republican party is actively working for the terrorists, working to make Americans very afraid, terrorized, exactly the goal of the attackers in France.

    Many more people were killed in traffic accidents in the US last week (annualized average of over 600 deaths a week) than were killed or wounded in Paris last week by terrorists. Over 32K people died on our highways in 2013, an order of magnitude more people than were killed on 9-11-2001. Yet no one wishes to accuse the automakers of terrorism?!

    “[L]et me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes…” And so much less to fear than the world had to fear in 1933, when FDR said those powerful words. And the Republicans want to use fear and unjustified terror to attack those who would fight paralysis and create well planned strategies to fight terror.

    That seems nearly as despicable as the killers in Paris, and the rapists where ISIL controls the populace.

  134. 134.

    beltane

    November 17, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    @Baud: My son says all his friends are voting for you.

  135. 135.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 17, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    @Zinsky: Amen to those two texts — especially the first one since it speaks to being kind to strangers. We need some of that kind of Christianity right about now.

  136. 136.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    Gas today was $1.78/gal lowest for me in a while…

    Thanks Obama

  137. 137.

    p.a.

    November 17, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    @Redshift: To them, just as liberals aren’t real Murcans, liberal Jews aren’t really Jewish. Bloody Bill; real Jew (I think theologically he’s actually agnostic, but that’s not the point). Likudniks, West Bank settlers; real Jews.

    And they do love the Tanakh (I just went to Judiasm 101) with its active, angry, jealous, vengeful god.

  138. 138.

    misterpuff

    November 17, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    @dedc79: “We need to beam messages around the world” about the freedoms Americans enjoy, Kasich said in an interview with NBC News Tuesday. “It means freedom, it means opportunity, it means respect for women, it means freedom to gather, it means so many things.”

    I believe he just described secular liberalism.

  139. 139.

    beltane

    November 17, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    A relative of the only American killed in the Paris attack has words of compassion for the people of Syria.

  140. 140.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    @beltane: the problem is the polls aren’t calling the people who support Baud! so his strength is under measured.

    Just wait till the election and all the Baud!inistas pour out into the voting booths.

  141. 141.

    ThresherK

    November 17, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    @lamh36: I thought they’d react to Jindal more like this.

  142. 142.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    The great Shirley Bassey
    History Repeating

  143. 143.

    Mandalay

    November 17, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    @slag: I wish President Obama would stop using the tired and stupid phrase “That’s not who we are”. He is invariably wrong when he invokes it.

    In this instance, applying a religious test to our compassion is exactly what a sizable chunk of this country wants to do, and it’s not just Republicans. Ask Chuck Schumer.

  144. 144.

    Kay

    November 17, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    @dedc79:

    Christian zealots (like Kasich)

    He’s not a Christian zealot. He’s the candidate for upper middle income, college-educated Republicans who don’t like being perceived as mean or ungenerous or small-minded.

  145. 145.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    @Mandalay: You’re right. One should never appeal to people’s better angels.

  146. 146.

    Chris

    November 17, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    @slag:

    YES! YES! JESUS H. TAP-DANCING CHRIST! I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!

    Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

  147. 147.

    japa21

    November 17, 2015 at 8:10 pm

    @Redshift: I wonder how some of these folks would respond if they were informed that Islam is closer to Christianity than Judaism is. Nah, I know how they would react. They can’t accept reality no matter what.

  148. 148.

    amk

    November 17, 2015 at 8:10 pm

    @Mandalay:

    so then, what he should say, that’s what we are?

    of all the nutty things that the rw’ers spew, this is what gets your goat? #stupid

  149. 149.

    Tripod

    November 17, 2015 at 8:11 pm

    Remember the shit eating grin Romneybot had after his Benghazi press conference?

    Lulz. The GOP can keep on fucking this chicken as long as they want.

  150. 150.

    EthylEster

    November 17, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    I just noticed a change in how the back arrow works now.

    It used to be that you could click on the linked name in a reply and read the message being replied to and then use the browser back arrow to get back to the reply. Now the back arrow takes you (i.e., me) out of the comments to the post.

  151. 151.

    Mike J

    November 17, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    @Zinsky: Actually deut 10:19. Interesting to see other translations too, like

    So you must love the resident foreigner because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt.

    Side by side here

  152. 152.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 17, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I guess somebody never had one of those teachers or parents who looked at them with big, sad eyes after they screwed up and said, I know this isn’t what you’re really like.

  153. 153.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    November 17, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    @EthylEster:

    That has been a known problem for weeks.

  154. 154.

    NotMax

    November 17, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    @misterpuff

    Secretary of Propaganda? Department of Jingoism? Launching of a new social media platform: Two-facedbook?

    But – but – the W Bush administration actively shut libraries, closed down library programs and dismantled informational services associated with U.S. consulates and embassies, Herr Kasich. Any pithy opinions about that?

  155. 155.

    David Koch

    November 17, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    I wish Obama would just say “I’m tired of these muther-fucking snakes on this plane”.

    but nooooooooooooo.. He has to go all Sidney Poitier dignified “To Sir with Love” and “In the Heat of the Night” on us.

  156. 156.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Try being a PK.

  157. 157.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 17, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    @amk:

    Apparently the President of the United States is supposed to say, We’re assholes and always have been, what’cha gonna do?

    Oh, and I misstated the parental/teacher scolding above. It was more like, I know you’re better than this. Were there any words more likely to make you feel about an inch tall after you were a jerk to someone?

  158. 158.

    slag

    November 17, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    @EthylEster: Yeah. That’s no good. It discourages me from tracing replies back to original comments, making it even harder to follow a thread.

  159. 159.

    amk

    November 17, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    @EthylEster:

    yup, tommy borked it permanently. just a chuck posted a cure for firefox.

  160. 160.

    sukabi

    November 17, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    @misterpuff: was it out of the same side of his mouth that he’s advocating setting up an agency for spreading judeau christian values…
    “We need to beam messages around the world about what it means to have a Western ethic, to be a part of a Christian-Judeo society,” Kasich said in an interview Tuesday with NBC.

  161. 161.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 17, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    @MomSense:

    I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic schools for the first 5 grades. We’re like a whole legion of PK’s — that’s why we have to call religious authorities “Father.”

  162. 162.

    Mike J

    November 17, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    Grrr. Power off, running on generator. Looked at my oven. 220v, 40 amps. Looks like ordering pizza since the generator won’t do 9kwatts and I don’t want to stand outside and grill.

    Again I say, “Grrr.”

  163. 163.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 17, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    Home of the Brave my DD 214 issued ass.

  164. 164.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 17, 2015 at 8:22 pm

    @Kay: Yup. Nail. Hammer. HIT!

  165. 165.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2015 at 8:22 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    I love being from there :-)

  166. 166.

    Mandalay

    November 17, 2015 at 8:22 pm

    @raven:

    Tweety is off the fucking rails again.

    He certainly is. One of tweety’s pet peeves is when people pronounce “Cheney” the normal way. He pounces, and smugly tells them that the correct pronunciation is “Chee-Knee”, even though I have never heard anyone ever say the name that way.

    But he was having such a meltdown tonight that he pronounced “Cheney” the same way as the rest of the world. As well as being a slobbering fool, the man is a complete fraud.

  167. 167.

    vheidi

    November 17, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    @p.a.: Nobel peace prize winners with feet of clay

  168. 168.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    @NotMax: Ministry of Love?

  169. 169.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 17, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I can’t remember exactly how or why we heard this, but apparently a group from one of the surrounding communities was meeting about a project, and one of them said, Okay, let’s not Oak Park this to death. apparently OP’s city council has a certain reputation for going around and around and around when they need to make a decision.

  170. 170.

    Germy

    November 17, 2015 at 8:28 pm


  171. 171.

    NotMax

    November 17, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    @Mike J

    No help other than a smile, but reminded of this great product spoof.

  172. 172.

    Exurban Mom

    November 17, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    @Bubblegum Tate: That is simply the most sickening fever dream of insanity I have had the misfortune to read.

  173. 173.

    JPL

    November 17, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    @Germy: I got plenty of nothing also.

  174. 174.

    amk

    November 17, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    @Germy:

    well said.

  175. 175.

    KithKanan

    November 17, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    @Mike J: time to get a decent toaster oven? At least if your generator can handle 1500w or so.

  176. 176.

    slag

    November 17, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    @Chris: Luckily, all those Republicans hoping to get the band back together in Syria aren’t likely to get their way.

  177. 177.

    Mandalay

    November 17, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    @amk:

    so then, what he should say

    He should just stop saying “that’s not who we are” when there is overwhelming evidence that it is exactly “who we are”.

    Time and again he makes the same overinflated claim, and it’s always demonstrably false….

    2010: We can’t turn law-abiding American citizens —- and law-abiding immigrants —- into subjects of suspicion and abuse.

    2010: We are not a nation that falls prey to doubt or mistrust. We don’t fall prey to fear.

    2012: We’re heartbroken over the loss of innocent life.

    We can turn law-abiding American citizens —- and law-abiding immigrants —- into subjects of suspicion and abuse.

    We are a nation that falls prey to doubt and mistrust.

    We are not heartbroken over the loss of innocent life.

  178. 178.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    This idea that America is basically good, and founded on good values of fairness and generosity of spirit, and some of us are currently falling short of those essential founding values and just need to live up to them… it’s a lot of nonsense, but it’s historically useful nonsense. Lincoln, FDR, King, they all got mileage out of it. Frederick Douglass was clearly deeply uncomfortable with this rhetorical tactic but he eventually decided he could use it beneficially.

  179. 179.

    Citizen_X

    November 17, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    @dedc79:

    Kasich Proposes New Government Agency To Promote Judeo-Christian Values

    Yeesh. First Amendment challenge, anyone?

  180. 180.

    KithKanan

    November 17, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    @Running Squid: Which is fairly ironic since that control is a large part of what makes driving more dangerous, since you (in the generic) are almost certainly not as good a driver as you think you are, or as someone who drives a lot more than you do (bus travel is also far safer per-passenger-mile than driving in a personal vehicle, though not quite as safe as flying).

    And I say this even though the loss of control when I’m not driving freaks me out too.

  181. 181.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    I rebelled by going to the Catholic Church.

  182. 182.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    @Mandalay:

    We can turn law-abiding American citizens —- and law-abiding immigrants —- into subjects of suspicion and abuse.

    We are a nation that falls prey to doubt and mistrust.

    We are not heartbroken over the loss of innocent life.

    Yeah, that would be a speech that gets positive results.

  183. 183.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: But it annoys Mandalay.

  184. 184.

    Mandalay

    November 17, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    it’s a lot of nonsense, but it’s historically useful nonsense.

    It’s counterproductive to make the claim when it’s obviously not true.

    Right now the governors of 31 states are saying that they will not accept Syrian refugees. That is who we are as a country.

    The president is making himself look clueless about how a sizable chunk of the country feels.

  185. 185.

    slag

    November 17, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: I like it. It offers much more opportunity than your average, “Fuck it, I’m outta here!” And while there’s always been a deep and profound dissonance running through our history, you still have a Lincoln, King, Douglass, and Obama to show for it. That ain’t nothin’.

  186. 186.

    amk

    November 17, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    @Mandalay:

    so, how many politicians, both past and present, have met that particular ‘high & moral’ standard you set for the kenyan?

  187. 187.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    @Mandalay: It is an aspirational statement couched a statement of fact. Something to try to live up to. It is not intended as a literally true statement.

  188. 188.

    Citizen_X

    November 17, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    The President also announced that all Americans must pay their fair share to support the war effort, and imposed a temporary 7% payroll tax on working Americans.

    …and there was the clink of champagne glasses on Wall Street, as day-traders, hedge fund managers, and trust-fund brats celebrated, once again, the untouchable sanctity of their money.

  189. 189.

    NotMax

    November 17, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    @KithKanan

    Not the greatest meal in the world, but keeping around a few emergency packets or containers of instant stuff that requires boiling water allows one to use a coffeemaker, powered by the generator, to produce water near enough to boiling temperature to whip up something edible.

    Or there’s always that ol’ dodgy standby, an immersion heater (do they even still make those?).

  190. 190.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: The dangerous flip side is the claim that America is inherently good, so whatever damn thing we’re doing now is for goodness, human rights and democracy. I can understand being wary.

  191. 191.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2015 at 8:57 pm

    @slag: Most of them sometimes went super-dark about the country’s essential founding flaws, too. Lincoln had this tendency to think out loud about how maybe the terrible things that were happening were divine punishment for not measuring up, for the North and South alike. But, you know, you don’t always deploy that side of it.

  192. 192.

    Baud

    November 17, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    America sucks! Baud! 2016!

  193. 193.

    Mandalay

    November 17, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    how many politicians, both past and present, have met that particular ‘high & moral’ standard you set for the kenyan?

    Nice strawman you built there.

    It’s President Obama who is setting the high standard. It is all fine and good to appeal to our better natures, but there is massive evidence that a good chunk of the country does not have a better nature, and strongly disagrees with him about Syrian immigrants. He makes himself look out of touch when he dismissively says “that’s not who we are”.

  194. 194.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    @Mandalay: I don’t read Obama as being dismissive when he makes statements like that.

  195. 195.

    amk

    November 17, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    @Mandalay: so, you got nothing then? only the rw meme that he is ‘out of touch’?

  196. 196.

    frosty

    November 17, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Passenger miles. You have to multiply the distance the plane flies by the number of passengers. I’ll take a SWAG that the plane flight is 100 times safer since there’s probably at least that many passengers.

    Of course, if there’s 4 people in the car, you multiply the mileage there, too.

  197. 197.

    slag

    November 17, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: In this case, though, Obama freely acknowledged that “dark impulse” and essentially argued that we have a choice. He’s clearly arguing that we don’t have to feel predestined to make bad choices. And that if we can unify around the ideal rather than falling into destructive habits, that’s the place at which we can begin to defeat ISIL.

  198. 198.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 17, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    @amk: I think TOC’s JS fix (greasemonkey) Even Better Balloon Juice, addresses the back button issue. Mine works correctly, and I’ve installed EBBJ as well as More Better Balloon Juice (css at Stylish).

  199. 199.

    amk

    November 17, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Yes, I have his installed fix too and it helps hugely with the back button issue in a non-threaded blog like this. But it also fucked up the edit function.

  200. 200.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I am waiting until the rebuild is finished before installing anything. I live in hope that all will be well.

  201. 201.

    Steeplejack

    November 17, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q), @Omnes Omnibus:

    I installed MBBJ but have not installed EBBJ. The former was necessary to stanch my pain, but I held off on the latter, hoping that the rebuild will be finished soon and will solve the (main) problems. I also have a little snippet of code that I inserted manually into MBBJ to give me a serif font (Georgia).

    Did you see T.’s offhand comment either last night or this morning about doing some planning for a new project? It sounded a little tone-deaf, given the current circumstances, but perhaps I’m overly sensitive.

  202. 202.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2015 at 9:51 pm

    @frosty: Aagh! You’re right. On average, the plane flight will kill more fractional people than the drive to the airport, but that’s because there are more people in the plane, and if you’re trying to figure out the probability that you’ll get killed on this flight, you’re just one person.

    Thanks…

  203. 203.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    November 17, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    @Mandalay:

    So, again, what is he supposed to say when he is trying to encourage people to accept immigrants? Telling us that we’re all assholes and we’ve always been assholes will accomplish … what exactly? How does saying that get us to the goal of accepting more immigrants?

  204. 204.

    Ohio Mom

    November 17, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    @EthylEster: yup, me too.

  205. 205.

    Satby

    November 17, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    @Baud: That made me cry. But in a good way.

  206. 206.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    November 17, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Right, but when you’re trying to appeal to “the better angels of our nature,” I don’t get how on earth it’s productive to essentially say, You guys are all assholes who wouldn’t know the moral thing to do if it bit you in the ass.

    Like I said above, Obama is doing the teacher/parent I know you’re better than this routine. Is this a Midwestern thing and parents in other regions just tell their kids that they’re lost causes who can never improve?

  207. 207.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    November 17, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    @Steeplejack: Saw that also and wondered, but there are a number (or at least a couple) of potential interpretations.

  208. 208.

    Satby

    November 17, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    @Steeplejack: no, simply refreshing isn’t working for quite a few people. Mostly Android based phones and tablets.

  209. 209.

    Steeplejack

    November 17, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Check the thread upstairs:

    I have John as a client and another person on his side. They could not be happier.

  210. 210.

    Anne Laurie

    November 17, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    @p.a.:

    let the ‘Judeos’ disagree with the ‘christians’ on said policy and watch how fast the ‘christians’ drop the ‘Judeos’ from the equation.

    Nah, the ‘christians’ need to hang on to the Old Testament, because that Jeebus dude didn’t say enough bad things about gays and women and unbelievers.

  211. 211.

    redshirt

    November 17, 2015 at 10:29 pm

    @Anne Laurie: This is one of your best posts AL. Thanks for it.

  212. 212.

    redshirt

    November 17, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    I thank the non-maker I was brought up in a completely areligious family, and the reason for that was the Catholic – Protestant war of two generations prior. On my Father’s side my Grandfather was a Protestant and my Grandmother was Catholic and each family disowned them, which sounds like some Romeo + Juliet shit, and maybe back in the 40’s it was, but for my entire life they seemed to hate each other. He an absolute drunk, which is probably the reason. But they died married so I guess they’re in Heaven now, at least according to those D&D rules.

    My Mother’s side is a weird mystery, which involves Stephen King.

  213. 213.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 17, 2015 at 10:36 pm

    @Baud: wow

  214. 214.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 17, 2015 at 10:39 pm

    @jl: Bullshit. Getting killed by our machines is just normal, we accept it. Death by mass murderer is horrific in that it is unexpected. News because it is unexpected. Once it’s the cost of doing business, we suck it up. Like everyday gun violence.

    Who says cars aren’t trying to kill us? You have to plan for safety. Only gradually and after great agitation and scandals and a generational change has that been done.

  215. 215.

    terben

    November 17, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    My question about the biblical quote from Matthew is this. What does god have against goats?

  216. 216.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 17, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): But crashes per vehicle mile traveled for cars have also dropped significantly in the last 20 years due to improvements in traffic and vehicle safety and DWI laws.

  217. 217.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 17, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    @Running Squid: Plenty of people ride as passengers in cars and SUVs and are still scared to fly.

    It might be all the funny noises. Or the fear of heights. Or that pesky drop in oxygenation levels that makes you so foggy/lethargic/nauseated in the air. Asphyxiating is a VERY primal fear.

  218. 218.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 17, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    @Calouste: It was regressive, though (fap fap fap fap fap).

    Notably not taxed: investor class. Only slobs who work for a living with their backs and schlubs who used to work for a living. Owning things is free in Marco’s America.

  219. 219.

    redshirt

    November 17, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    @Another Holocene Human:

    It might be all the funny noises. Or the fear of heights. Or that pesky drop in oxygenation levels that makes you so foggy/lethargic/nauseated in the air. Asphyxiating is a VERY primal fear.

    People create their own fears, of course.

    Fear of flying is completely absurd when compared to the actual danger of driving, especially motorcycles in shorts no shirt no helmet and beach sandals on the pedals. We’ve all seen it. And yet, who’s afraid of that?

    Fear is not rational and often does not respond to logic.

  220. 220.

    Anne Laurie

    November 18, 2015 at 12:41 am

    @terben:

    What does god have against goats?

    They don’t take direction well. As Big Daddy of a shepherd tribe, Yahweh wants a flock where the members meekly yearn to be herded, like sheep do — not a bunch of individualists who insist on being persuaded, like goats. True story!

  221. 221.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 18, 2015 at 6:43 am

    @frosty: It’s crashes per VEHICLE mile, fatalities per PASSENGER mile. HTH.

  222. 222.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 18, 2015 at 6:43 am

    @slag: And he outta know, he smokes.

  223. 223.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 18, 2015 at 6:46 am

    @Anne Laurie: I thought it was because they were too randy and ate everything. Metaphor for the Hebrews’ unloved urban neighbors.

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