Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

This fight is for everything.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: Only When the Tide Goes Out Do You Discover Who’s Been Swimming Naked

Open Thread: Only When the Tide Goes Out Do You Discover Who’s Been Swimming Naked

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Lotsa competiton for “worst person in the world” this week…

Those showing their arses are getting some pushback, at least…

***********

Reader Interactions

140Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Lotsa competiton for “worst person in the world” this week…

    Glad to not be in the running for once.

  4. 4.

    Woodrowfan

    the thing to remember about Ben Stein, is that in his scene in “Ferris Buehler” (sp) he didn;t think he was being boring. He thought that was how normal people talk and act.

  5. 5.

    Felonius Monk

    Make America Great Again: Swap 2 rightwingers and/or far right godbotherers for each Syrian refugee.

  6. 6.

    different-church-lady

    OK, so let’s see if I’ve got this straight: three thousand+ people were killed by terrorists in two major American cites while George W. Bush was president, and that equals keeping us safe. While four US citizens and scores of non-US citizens were killed in overseas countries, and that means Obama can’t keep us safe.

  8. 8.

    scav

    @Jerzy Russian: It’s like peak wingularity — there is no lower bound on this stupidity/cowardice/heartlessness. I’ve given up being surprised on the downside, although can still unexpectedly work up a rage. Merry American Christmas: They’re practically wetting themselves over the excitement of getting themselves another little existential war and with an excuse to immigrant/refugee bash!

  10. 10.

    Mike J

    People bring up the 1938 polls for not allowing Jewish refugees, but why does nobody connect the dots with Cruz? When he said Christian refugees only, he wants to turn away Jewish refugees all over again.

  11. 11.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Well, I am simply shaking with rage at the incredibly stupid strawman post a FB friend put up just now. It’s a link to Allen Fucking West, and a picture of a crowd with the caption”Simple Question: Would Islamic countries welcome millions of Christians?”

    I don’t know what’s happened to this woman. She always seemed to be very rational, humane, compassionate. And, I thought, fairly liberal, although to be fair we didn’t discuss politics until very recently. She loves animals (that hasn’t changed). But she apparently got a hair up her ass about Justin Trudeau during the campaign (she’s Canadian) and in the few short weeks since JT was elected Prime Minister my friend has turned into a raving mass of reactionary rhetoric and knee-jerk hatred of foreigners, immigrants, refugees, and liberals with either a lower-case or capital L. I’m really distressed. Don’t want to lose her as a friend but am searching for the words to post that indicate how strongly I disagree with her (not to mention her tasteless citation of Allen Fucking West).

    EDITED to correct spelling of Allen Fucking West.

  13. 13.

    gogol's wife

    @Jerzy Russian:

    I’ve been too busy to read the blog today, and I’ve just looked at today’s posts and think I’ll go lie down in a darkened room with a wet cloth on my head.

  15. 15.

    Poopyman

    @SiubhanDuinne: Friendship is a two-way street. What’s her reaction going to be when she reads your totally liberal FB post?

    OK, so maybe you’re like me, and just don’t post much of yourself, but are you worried about how she’ll react to your political views? Will that damage the friendship?

  16. 16.

    PeakVT

    A nation of bedwetters. Well, at least 27% of us are. They cry a lot more than the rest of us, though.

  18. 18.

    Nate Dawg

    @SiubhanDuinne: could point out how petty it is. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, to give the man stealing your shirt, your cost as well, to walk 2 miles with the stranger who asks you to walk one mile….

    Or you can use ahistorical hypotheticals to relieve yourself of all moral duty. Your choice.

  22. 22.

    HinTN

    @SiubhanDuinne: I manage to respectfully disagree with my wingnut friends (yes, that can happen) and they can tut-tut with their like-minded brethren over my woolly pated bleeding heart liberalism. Sometimes it’s just not worth the fight but you have to day you think otherwise when they go cuckoo.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    knee-jerk hatred of foreigners, immigrants, refugees, and liberals with either a lower-case or capital L.

    I don’t see how you can be friends with someone who hates you. Disagreement is one thing, but hatred is another.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: Glad to see some pushback on this, here there and everywhere. The Prez is certainly letting the bedwetters have it. I hope he keeps mocking Ted “Say It To My Face” Cruz until Cruz slips and says something he can’t walk back.

  28. 28.

    MattF

    For the record, Felix Salmon has been following and debunking Ben Stein’s economic inanities for a long time– try googling ‘salmon’ and ‘ben stein watch’ for examples. However, Salmon eventually gave up on it, Stein’s economic ignorance was too vast, and Salmon apparently decided to move on.

    But with Stein venturing into the jungles of pop psychology and blameobamaology, he couldn’t resist taking note.

  29. 29.

    Jeffro

    @srv: I can see John Oliver or Stephen Colbert offering to lead that regiment straight into the heart of ISIL territory, just as soon as they get 100 wingnut armchair commandos to sign up.

    Or just ten.

    Or maybe just Erick Erickson, Ari Fleischer, and a random FB wingnut to be selected by lottery

  32. 32.

    Satby

    @Baud: yeah. I have just let go of some friendships because in the end analysis, if they despised people like me, they really didn’t like me either. It’s just that old habits are hard to break, and friendship with me was a habit.

  33. 33.

    Mike in NC

    Ben Stein (AKA Ben Slime), Cheney, and Rumsfeld all are veterans of the Nixon administration. They should have been jailed years ago.

  35. 35.

    Another Holocene Human

    OT: server has just barfed on me repeatedly today. No thread for you! Fix it, Cole, dammit.

    Also, all of you who whined about white space, now Tommy went and took it away and comments are all jammed up against each other and I hate you all.

  36. 36.

    Germy

    @Another Holocene Human:

    TOmmy has finished on his end, and now Alain and I are working on a few things. We’re getting rid of the default image and kaiboshing the most recent posts things, as well as a few other things. I’m finally feeling better and will be more hands on. I need to just knuckle down and learn how to code WP.

  43. 43.

    scav

    @Baud: Chicago City council also did a symbolic vote against Bruce Rauner’s pandering to the worst instincts. link. I still think if gov Pander is going to go with knee-jerk suspicion of entire populations, his next move should be the wholesale investigation and round-up of Illinois police and their families for possible mingling of private and other funds. There’s far more evidence of that as a local cultural of wrong-doing and don’t they really really need the cash in this benighted state?

  44. 44.

    PeakVT

    @Another Holocene Human: This can be fixed in Firefox if somebody writes a script that alters the CSS (which controls the page formatting). I’ve done it before for myself after previous “upgrades” of the site, but I have no time these days for such things.

  45. 45.

    Germy

    @Schlemazel:
    FRIENDLESS, adj. Having no favors to bestow. Destitute of fortune. Addicted to utterance of truth and common sense.

    FRIENDSHIP, n. A ship big enough to carry two in fair weather, but only one in foul.

    (Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary)

  46. 46.

    NotMax

    @Baud

    Uh-oh. A word that doesn’t test well in parts of the country.

    After all, philosophy was Greek, and we all know (wink wink, nudge nudge) about them Greeks.

    :)

  48. 48.

    redshirt

    I made the mistake of listening to the WEEI morning show and I think it was Jerry was going on an on about Obama’s comments about Republicans being scared of Syrian refugees. He called Obama a child, naive, ignorant, churlish, and a fool who has no grasp of the issue.

    For as long as I could listen, I was taken aback, because it’s pretty much the opposite of the reality, but you could tell he believed it 100%.

    The wingnut spell is powerful and can completely take over a person.

  50. 50.

    Thoughtful David

    @SiubhanDuinne: No–you have to respond. Otherwise they think everyone agrees with them. If you respond, they have to put both brain cells together and it gets them one step closer to thinking.

  53. 53.

    Tenar Darell

    @SiubhanDuinne: Um, if her posts have degenerated to the point where you’re constantly distraught, may be time to say: “Please don’t share these things anymore if you care about our friendship.” Think of it like an intervention. Maybe your comment will be enough to get some daylight into the rabbit hole she’s gone down. Because there is another option – unfriend her. Because there’s a limit, it’s possible you’ve reached yours, and then you do have to disengage to protect yourself.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    @Tommy:

    Tommy, can you give us a status on the fix for the Android mobile webpage? I keep having to refresh the page manually (a second time) to see if there are new comments.

  61. 61.

    kindness

    It seems to me the level of venom from the right has risen significantly lately. I swear, I really do think they are purposely pushing the buttons of the lunatic base (it isn’t a fringe anymore) hoping one of them will kill Obama. I don’t put it past many of them. Take Ari up above. If that isn’t asking someone to ‘please kill this man’ I don’t know what else it could be.

  63. 63.

    Bobby Thomson

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    my friend has turned into a raving mass of reactionary rhetoric and knee-jerk hatred of foreigners, immigrants, refugees, and liberals with either a lower-case or capital L. I’m really distressed. Don’t want to lose her as a friend

    Sounds like you already have. You could try writing a thoughtful post on your own page and see where that goes. Just don’t compromise yourself.

    “Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.”

    “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

  64. 64.

    Nate Dawg

    Lawrence O’Donnell has a really good point: media needs to stop calling Abdelhammid Abbaaoud a “mastermind” because it glorifies a mass murdering psychopath.

  65. 65.

    Jerzy Russian

    I forgot to ask this earlier, but is the safe word still the same, or do we have a new one after the redesign? I would rather not hang out around here without a safe word.

  68. 68.

    Germy

    @kindness:

    It seems to me the level of venom from the right has risen significantly lately.

    It got really venomous in 2009. Something must have happened that year.

  72. 72.

    redshirt

    @different-church-lady: I have to listen to as much sports radio as possible for my Fantasy Football career (won 100$ last weekend), and I confess I sometimes enjoy D&C show as long as they’re not talking politics. They get Tom Brady interviews for example.

    I read wingnut websites so I’m well aware of this phenomena, but to hear it, to hear the passionate sincerity that was completely wrong, I was taken aback.

    Because he would not doubt say I was completely wrong, too, right?

    Is there no objective truth?

  73. 73.

    Bobby Thomson

    @MattF: the moderate Kasich was always a media creation. He’s at least as right wing as the rest of them. Not turning down free money doesn’t make him a moderate.

  75. 75.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Germy: Distinctly not on there: fixing the manic server barfs issue.

    eta: seriously, whoever is whining about balloon man must not be dealing with the “no data from server” error multiple times a day. I don’t even see balloon man. wtf ever.

  76. 76.

    Germy

    @Baud:

    Thank you. Aside from the server timeout issue, that’s my only major complaint.

    Cole is teaching himself how to code. I have covered my eyes, but I am peeking between my fingers.

    (I keed, I keed)

  80. 80.

    Mandalay

    @Baud:

    I don’t see how you can be friends with someone who hates you.

    Part of the problem is the lack of alternatives to the word “friend”, especially with respect to online relationships.

    It would be an interesting experiment to have 50 BJ posters meet for a few hours without revealing their BJ names until the end of the evening. I suspect that the correlation between those we like/dislike online and those we like/dislike in person would be very low.

  81. 81.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    I don’t see how you can be friends with someone who hates you.

    I don’t think she hates me personally, but I think she’s worked herself into a frenzy of hating what I believe.

  85. 85.

    Germy

    @MattF: True. But I’ve always suspected that people like Lush Rimbaugh and Hean Shannity (as well as the citizen wingnuts who comment on various newspapers) almost prefer a “democrap” in power. Because it’s easier and more fun to heckle the opposition from the sidelines than it is to defend your team when they’re in charge.

  89. 89.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @MattF:
    I remember the Clinton clears pretty well. The venom did not even approach this level. What was fringe then is mainstream now. Mean-spirited insults then are articles of faith now. Boehner, treated as a moderate now, is vastly more obstructionist than Newt Gingrich ever was. There sure wasn’t anything like this Republican presidential primary. A black man was elected president, and as predicted, White America lost its shit. I’m part of White America, and I watched it happen around me, horrified.

  92. 92.

    Schlemazel

    @redshirt: sometimes enjoy D&C show

    That is something I didn’t expect they would do before an audience. Does planned parenthood charge admission?

  96. 96.

    Mandalay

    @Baud:

    That’s why I don’t go to meet ups. I wouldn’t be able to stand all the looks of disappointment.

    That’s just more evidence that you are presidential timber in my book.

  98. 98.

    Germy

    @Frankensteinbeck: It has something to do with the rise of Rupert’s media empire. I remember the early days. Certain co-workers would get a little smirk on their faces and repeat what they’d seen on his channel.

  100. 100.

    MattF

    @Germy: Well, I had an officemate who was a dittohead, back in the day. I avoided arguing with her, but she wasn’t much fun. And back in the ’90’s I knew some media types who hated the Clintons with an intensity that matched anything you see today.

  101. 101.

    redshirt

    @efgoldman: WEEI is simulcast on a local station in Maine, but I happened to be driving to Boston yesterday so was listening to the mother station.

    The rest of their shows are quite good, with no politics. For sports talk, if you’re into that.

  104. 104.

    Citizen Alan

    @Tenar Darell:

    Because there is another option – unfriend her.

    Actually, on Facebook, there’s a third option: Unfollow her. That way her posts won’t show up in your feed. If she continually responds in an inflammatory manner to your posts, you can customize your postings so that she doesn’t get yours. Do both and your only interaction with her will be notifications for birthdays and maybe anniversaries. Which, for about half my Friends list, is all I really want.

  105. 105.

    Ruckus

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    No one can decide for you if this person is worth the effort that she seems to be putting you through. But some one once pointed out to me that if someone hates the things that you don’t and loves the things that disgust you then it’s time to decide how good of friend they are.
    I’ve unfriended a number of people on FB over the last 3-4 yrs and have gotten very wary of new people, I vet them first. Read their page, if they allow, check likes, groups, etc. I don’t need a thousand friends that really aren’t. This includes people I’ve known for decades.

  106. 106.

    Citizen Alan

    @kindness:

    I swear, I really do think they are purposely pushing the buttons of the lunatic base (it isn’t a fringe anymore) hoping one of them will kill Obama.

    To this day, I’m convinced that was what Caribou Barbie was doing when she told large audiences that Obama was “paling around with terrorists” because he was once in a room with Bill Ayers.

  107. 107.

    Anne Laurie

    @MattF: You think you’ve got problems — imagine trying to put together a post knowing that SITE FAILED TO RESPOND TIMED OUT TRY AGAIN? is going to drop by at least once during the process.

    I’m hoping that the mini-glitches are related to getting the new code installed, brick by brick, and that eventually Cole will call it finished and we can all stop flinching every time we hit reload…

  110. 110.

    Mandalay

    @efgoldman:

    I’ve been to three or four meetups (we don’t have enough of them) and have found exactly the opposite to be true.

    In that case I defer to your real world experience.

    @Satby:

    I think personality seeps through, even when people are putting on an online persona.

    You may be right. My thinking was that we largely form our opinions of people on-line based on their persona (their tone, rudeness, aggression, condescension, pomposity, etc.) But when we initially meet in person those ugly internet traits would evaporate (excepting the grade-A assholes of course), and would not be much of a factor in determing whether you liked someone or not in the flesh. But maybe not.

  112. 112.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Another Holocene Human: MBBJ css fixes that. At least on Firefox for me. I don’t see comments jammed together, the background alternate white and light gray and bold text is in black. Also above the reply box it reads only “Leave a Reply.”

  115. 115.

    J R in WV

    Pretty good defence of American values, compared to Ari’s outrageous hatred. Those Bushites committed war crimes for breakfast and lunch, and then celebrated at dinner.

    To imagine that President Obama is willing to risk his life, and his wife and kids, because he hates America… how crazy is that? And to foment hatred of the president, how close to treason is that?

    What a bunch of monsters! They should all be in prison, that prison in Germany that Albert Speer was the last inmate of. Or Abu Ghraib maybe. In the basement.

  120. 120.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @MattF:

    back in the ’90’s I knew some media types who hated the Clintons with an intensity that matched anything you see today.

    Yes, but the trick is, what you could find if you looked, then, is mainstream now. Hell, I knew someone who dressed in black coming to class on the day after Clinton’s election because America we would all be dead in four years. He got it listening to Rush. Rush hasn’t changed, but national GOP officials and spokesmen like Rove weren’t being forced to publicly apologize to him, like happened in a string in 2009-2010. Gingrich staged a shutdown confrontation. Those have been the norm during Obama’s presidency. The metrics on obstructionism shot up way above anything seen in Clinton’s presidency, or ever, period. The whole ‘compromise on anything whatsoever and face a primary’ phenomenon sure wasn’t there. Whitewater was the only thing that came close, and it was a farce and an insult, not an issue in presidential campaigns like Benghazi and Birtherism. You didn’t get a clown like Trump shooting into the lead in the presidential campaign by calling Mexicans rapists and murderers. The insanity has always existed, but when a black man became president, it took over.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    “After the first of the year, that’s when the gloves will come off,” said Tom Rath, a longtime New Hampshire Republican operative who is advising the campaign of Governor John Kasich of Ohio.

  122. 122.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: Amen and here’s hoping that growing/showing a spine is contagious. Nothing like turning the tables on these terrified little GOP demagogues.

  123. 123.

    Jeffro

    @Trentrunner: omg, that had to have been my 4th-most-pissed-off W administration moment (but there were so many to choose from, it’s difficult to line ’em all up)

  126. 126.

    Jeffro

    @kindness:

    It seems to me the level of venom from the right has risen significantly lately.

    A party in its death throes, with nothing to offer, facing a relatively unified opposition party…they’re gonna ramp up the fear factor every time. It’s all they have to offer. Not saying it’s right, but not entirely unexpected.

    I swear, I really do think they are purposely pushing the buttons of the lunatic base (it isn’t a fringe anymore) hoping one of them will kill Obama.

    You know, really, they’ve been doing this all along with their open-carry rallies outside presidential events, with the way they stoke the truly nutty base and allow the most offensive things to be said about the President. I’m not being blase’ about it, but they’ve kind of been doing it for 7 years now.

  127. 127.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Germy:
    It does, but there’s a chicken/egg issue with the racial tensions that made FOX popular. A whole lot of racists and evangelists have been getting increasingly nervous over the last five decades as the world becomes a weird place they don’t recognize, with a scary colored person everywhere they look. I personally think it’s a feedback loop. The racism created FOX, which fed the racism, and so on.

    @Citizen Alan:
    I don’t rule it out, but I’m thinking more a huge group of people sharing a warm ‘Man, it would be great if somebody shot Obama’ fuzzy thought. It hovers on the edge of intentional encouragement. Human thought and emotion is weird.

    @chopper:
    I cut my nose shaving, once. Not my proudest moment.

  139. 139.

    Splitting Image

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I don’t know what’s happened to this woman. She always seemed to be very rational, humane, compassionate. And, I thought, fairly liberal, although to be fair we didn’t discuss politics until very recently. She loves animals (that hasn’t changed). But she apparently got a hair up her ass about Justin Trudeau during the campaign (she’s Canadian) and in the few short weeks since JT was elected Prime Minister my friend has turned into a raving mass of reactionary rhetoric and knee-jerk hatred of foreigners, immigrants, refugees, and liberals with either a lower-case or capital L. I’m really distressed. Don’t want to lose her as a friend but am searching for the words to post that indicate how strongly I disagree with her (not to mention her tasteless citation of Allen Fucking West).

    I’ve had a couple of friends go over to the dark side over the past few years. As suggested above, it can be helpful to unfollow them at first, rather than unfriend them, which will give both them and you some breathing space.

    If after awhile you don’t really feel much of an inclination to add add them back to your news feed, and checking their timeline shows that they’re not just going through a short-term hissy fit, then the friendship may be completely broken. This has been the case for me.

    JT the PM seems to have revealed some of the same problems in Canada that Obama did when he beat Clinton in 2008. A few Clinton supporters chose to become Republicans rather than support the “inadequate black male”. Some fair-weather “progressives” seem to be following the same route since their chosen party didn’t win last month. This included a few of my friends, although most of them shook it off after a week or two. Sadly, not all.

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