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You are here: Home / Open Threads / I stain my sheets I don’t even know why

I stain my sheets I don’t even know why

by DougJ|  November 20, 20153:16 pm| 176 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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The Coalition Of The Wetting is even more frightened than I expected. Niall Ferguson:

I am, instead, going to tell you that this is exactly how civilisations fall.

[….]

Like the Roman Empire in the early 5th century, Europe has allowed its defences to crumble.

[….]

Poor, poor Paris. Killed by ­complacency.

At this point, I guess we should all know that bed wetting is a core conservative value.

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Reader Interactions

176Comments

  1. 1.

    Hunter Gathers

    November 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    I need to invest in Depends.
    There’s money to be made with all the grown up pants wetting going on.

  2. 2.

    Yutsano

    November 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    Someone please remind me why Niall is taken seriously. By anyone.

  3. 3.

    Elizabelle

    November 20, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    Peak Wingnut.

    Pants Wetting.

    Same initials. Coincidence or not? Discuss.

  4. 4.

    JPL

    November 20, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Don’t worry Chris Christie is going to protect us all.. link

    According to twitter
    He wasn’t threatened He saw a guy taking pics of crew & emailing them in Arabic (said his seatmate)
    The plane had to return to the gate..

  5. 5.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Apologist for the British Empire says what?

  6. 6.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    The depth of conservative cowardice is really staggering, and there doesn’t seem to be any internal check against it.

  7. 7.

    Ripley

    November 20, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    Has his girlfriend started to cry yet?

  8. 8.

    Belafon

    November 20, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    Won’t their guns protect them? Won’t their god?

  9. 9.

    billy

    November 20, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    that would be the Holy Roman Empire I believe.

  10. 10.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    Ferguson is behind a paywall.

  11. 11.

    piratedan

    November 20, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    they’re PROUD to tell you that their right to own their own personal arsenal supersedes you’re right to watch a chick flick without being gunned down or even vote without two forms of ID and they’re also PROUD to enjoinder the black booted thugs of big govmint to sequester away anyone else that doesn’t appear to be a gawd feering conservative American.

    They are a puzzle of contradictions to be sure… Makes me wish that someone would arrest Rupert Murdock for crimes against humanity, because that bastard has sowed more fear for profit and been responsible for the brain death of many a person than anyone else I could name.

  12. 12.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    @JPL: I think we need to ban all foreign languages. Who knows what these Norwegians are plotting?

  13. 13.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 20, 2015 at 3:28 pm

    Same song, different day. Only this time I’ve heard it before.

  14. 14.

    Doug!

    November 20, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Yeah, the other link I found for it was too.

  15. 15.

    scav

    November 20, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    The fall of civilization?!? Oh, let us sit upon the ground and morn the fate of a few souflèes, at best. In Niall’s World, getting a thumbnail bruised and having it fall off invariably leads to death of the entire body! Perhaps even All the extended kinship!! I mean, this is the resiliance of that supposedly world-colonizing superior Western culture and values?

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    November 20, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    Poor, poor Paris. Killed by ­complacency.

    Oh, so Paris is actually gone now. I hadn’t realized, this is serious. [Scratches Paris off future vacation site list.]

  17. 17.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    @Yutsano:

    Someone please remind me why Niall is taken seriously.

    Accent. Also, too, he tells some people what they want to hear.

  18. 18.

    Loneoak

    November 20, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    It’s times like this when I remember all the times that Andrew Sullivan claimed every human virtue as a core conservative value.

  19. 19.

    NotMax

    November 20, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    Smutch is the new black.

  20. 20.

    Doug R

    November 20, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/IristheVirus17/media/oh-noes-everybody-panic.gif.html

  21. 21.

    JPL

    November 20, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    Here is another article about Gov. Christie saving the day! link

  22. 22.

    Hoodie

    November 20, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Although bed wetting is certainly common among conservatives, this may be more an example of Niall Ferguson’s grifter status than the conservative bedwetter syndrome. He’s been playing this Winston- Churchill-standing-in-the-breech schtick for quite a while. Wealthy Americans seem to be suckers for decline of Europe tripe like this. It’s much easier and more fun and lucrative to do this than writing dry academic papers that gather dust in college libraries.

  23. 23.

    Rock

    November 20, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    I’m intrigued by the apparent hyperbole. Paris is not dead, and I say that not to diminish the deaths of 130 people, but to point out that it is a delusional statement. Or are conservatives predicting that truly catastrophic event is now unstoppable?

    This same style of rhetoric is used by numerous presidential candidates, implying or explicitly stating that Daesh is an existential threat to Western culture. Do they really believe that?

    It’s particularly galling because there are threats that to me some significantly more likely to end Western civilization (climate-change, an epidemic, resource scarcity…).

  24. 24.

    Doug!

    November 20, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    @Hoodie:

    You may be right that this more about grifting than anything else.

  25. 25.

    RaflW

    November 20, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    Perfect post title, sir!

  26. 26.

    mtiffany

    November 20, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    Poor, poor Paris. Killed by ­complacency.

    Poor, poor Niall Ferguson. Long dead on the inside yet still shambling around.

  27. 27.

    Peale

    November 20, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    So in summary, everything is either Munich in 1938 or Rome in 475 1/2.

    Another way that civilizations fall is that the British win a war and force your country to buy opium in exchange for tea and porcelain. Another way they fall is that the Japanese annex you because you believe in an outdated neo-Confucianism and purposefully cut your kingdom off from technological advances in order to maintain your power. Another way they fall is that Eurpeans bring small pox. Another way that they fall is that the river system changes and everyone has to move someplace else.

  28. 28.

    rikyrah

    November 20, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    @Rock:

    I’m intrigued by the apparent hyperbole. Paris is not dead, and I say that not to diminish the deaths of 130 people, but to point out that it is a delusional statement.

    Timothy McVeigh killed more people in Oklahoma.

  29. 29.

    jl

    November 20, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    Ferguson is such weak sauce. Rome? Seriously, Rome?
    He should shriek about the Mongol destruction of Kiev!
    That will get them shitting their pants nonstop.

  30. 30.

    Joel

    November 20, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    Nail is talking about his career, right?

  31. 31.

    RaflW

    November 20, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    @trollhattan: What Niall wants to say is that Paris has been ruined already by the Muslim hordes who have been lawfully admitted. The white euro-Paris of his boyhood is gone.

    But that would be obviously racist, so instead he blathers darkly about the fall of civilization.

  32. 32.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 20, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    @Rock: Ever hear conservatives going about about “Eurabia”? They’re convinced that Europe is nearly majority-Arab Muslim and on the verge of turning into the Caliphate (because, you know, they breed like rabbits and white people won’t). They’ve been convinced of this for decades. Citing actual statistics to the contrary does not help. Often they throw around factoids and numbers that are just completely made up.

  33. 33.

    dedc79

    November 20, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    Funny Violent Femmes story. Last year I was down in New Orleans for a long weekend and went to this great music store (the name is escaping me at the moment) that was hosting local bands all day long. This one band was playing a bunch of New Orleans music, some songs in french, some bluegrass stuff. At the close of their set, they invite a guest up from the audience, the band starts playing and we all immediately recognize it as a cover of Blister in the Sun. Only this isn’t just any cover – the singer sounds exactly like the original. Well, as it turns out, the reason he sounded so much like the singer from the Violent Femmes is because he was the singer from the Violent Femmes.

  34. 34.

    Peale

    November 20, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    @jl: He said Great civilizations, of which there are only two: Rome and Britannia. I swear, he must have gone to school in 1912.

  35. 35.

    RaflW

    November 20, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    @Rock: “This same style of rhetoric is used by numerous presidential candidates, implying or explicitly stating that Daesh is an existential threat to Western culture. Do they really believe that?”

    Yes. They believe it so much that they’re precipitating it. Our culture will be unrecognizable soon if the drive to jettison all pretense at human decency proceeds at this week’s pace.

  36. 36.

    slag

    November 20, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    ‘Coalition of the Wetting’ is poetry.

  37. 37.

    NotMax

    November 20, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    Have tried several times since last night to link to this video but FYWP just will not let it go through, so gonna try modifying the URL so that it can searched or copied and pasted instead, and reached by eliminating the asterisks

    “We must not give in to the temptation to close ourselves off.”

    – French president Hollande

    France’s proposed acceptance of 30,000 refugees stands.

    h*ttps://www.*youtube.*com/watch?v=2_p04U63ASE

  38. 38.

    Peale

    November 20, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Maybe that’s what he means by “complacency.” Not fucking enough to produce the 5-6 children necessary to counter the humping horde that is Islam.

  39. 39.

    JPL

    November 20, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    So is Ferguson saying that France was as strong as the Roman Empire before the Paris attacks?

  40. 40.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 20, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    @Peale: It’s certainly a notion with a lot of (terrible) history behind it. See Sir Cyril Burt, etc.

  41. 41.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    Europe recovered from the self-immolations of WW I & II, but not this?

  42. 42.

    trollhattan

    November 20, 2015 at 3:51 pm

    @RaflW:
    Ah, that Paris. Remember back in the day when Japan, Inc was going to own us and everything lock, stock and sushi bar? How’d that end?

  43. 43.

    Brother Dingaling

    November 20, 2015 at 3:51 pm

    That’s why Rome fell? My preacher told me it was buttsex

  44. 44.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 20, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    @rikyrah: But that is central to his point! Oklahoma hasn’t been contributing much to Western Civilization since then either.

  45. 45.

    mai naem mobile

    November 20, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    The 101st Fighting Bedwetters – Leading from Behind – The Many and The Shameless. Asidere Nos In Vobis

  46. 46.

    Felonius Monk

    November 20, 2015 at 3:55 pm

    Can we now call them «conservacowards»?

  47. 47.

    trollhattan

    November 20, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    @p.a.:
    This is different. We’re now being advised to “Wake up and smell the falafel” not sauerkraut.

    I wish I were making that up.

  48. 48.

    RSA

    November 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Oh, so Paris is actually gone now. I hadn’t realized, this is serious. [Scratches Paris off future vacation site list.]

    I was deeply sad in 2001, having to cross New York City off the list of living examples of civilization.

  49. 49.

    azelie

    November 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    @dedc79:

    Gordon Gano has been known to hang around south Louisiana. Here he is with the Lost Bayou Ramblers in Lafayette:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOPJZ3EilU

  50. 50.

    redshirt

    November 20, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    The Roman Empire did not fall until the 1450’s.

  51. 51.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Mandatory lutefisk meals at least once a week.

    Oh the humanity!

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    November 20, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    Six attempts in various threads since last night and FYWP will not let any link to this short video on youtube through, no matter how configured.

    So please take a minute to search Google for the following complete title:

    France Still Welcoming Syrian Refugees, Unlike Many U.S. Governors

    The video ought to show at the top or right near the top of the listings.

  53. 53.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    @redshirt:

    The Roman Empire did not fall until the 1450’s

    Yes, and you know to whom? Booga-booga!

    “Why did Constantinople get the works?
    That’s nobodies business but the Turks…”

  54. 54.

    scav

    November 20, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    @RSA: It barely survived the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire (146 dead). Luckily, they died in the name of profit, so the place squeeked through.

  55. 55.

    Heliopause

    November 20, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    Like the Roman Empire in the early 5th century

    Why does everybody always act like this was a bad thing?

  56. 56.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    @Hoodie: I don’t buy it. This has been going on for years, from more people than just Niall, and on more topics. Toss in Iran nuclear deal, toss in the border issue, toss in stand your ground where you have the right to shoot people that look at you wrong.

    I get that it may be grifting and it may be political opportunism, but it’s still cowardice, it’s completely widespread on the right, and that carries a cost.

  57. 57.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    From the column:

    It is conventional to say that the overwhelming majority of Muslims in Europe are not violent, and that is doubtless true. But it is also true that the majority of Muslims in Europe hold views that are not easily reconciled with the principles of our modern liberal democracies, including those novel notions we have about equality between the sexes and tolerance not merely of religious diversity but of nearly all sexual proclivities.

    Do the principles of western democracies also include genocide by starvation? Are the 60 million Indians who died due to famine and starvation during the course of the British rule while Ferguson’s ancestors were lining their pockets its crowning glory ?

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    November 20, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    The French themselves are making a point of staying calm, indeed of going out to cafes to show that they refuse to be intimidated.

    But French President Hollande has also stepped up attacks on ISIS military targets, partnering with Russia. And there is this, at home, from a recent BBC story:

    He wants to change the constitution to allow a continued state of emergency – it’s actually described as a “state of siege” in his speech – allowing French people to be stripped of their citizenship and barred from the country if they have a second nationality and are convicted of terrorism, to look again at when police can use deadly force, putting plans to cut defence spending on ice and recruiting 5,000 more officers.

    Perhaps most importantly, the determination to destroy the Islamic State militant group is put above getting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad out of power.

    If a rapprochement with the Russians was on the cards before, this strengthens President Vladimir Putin’s hand and desirability as a partner.

    It is hardly “Keep calm and carry on”.

    And the French right wing, like Republicans here, are going nuts.

    Ferguson and others like him are jerks, but it is going to take more to pull them back from their hysteric ledges.

  59. 59.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    @efgoldman: Are they providing Aquavit to go with it?

  60. 60.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    @trollhattan: One of my old Internet friends just went ahead with her scheduled vacation in Paris, and is currently having a fine time there. Everyone seems happy to see her.

    (edited for infelicitous phrasing)

  61. 61.

    Calouste

    November 20, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: I think the party Fergusson is associated with doesn’t have much up with religious diversity or tolerance of nearly all sexual proclivities.

    And to tie this to the previous thread, Fergusson is a professor at Harvard.

  62. 62.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    @Brachiator: Hey, fascism doesn’t just happen, you have to work at it.

  63. 63.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    @trollhattan: It was “hummus” when Robin Williams said the line in Aladdin.

  64. 64.

    Tommy

    November 20, 2015 at 4:10 pm

    Like the Roman Empire in the early 5th century, Europe has allowed its defences to crumble.

    Of all said, that quote is kind of hard to read.It might be the one thing accurate.

  65. 65.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    @Calouste: The right wingers here have more in common with religious fundamentalists in the Middle East than they care to admit.

  66. 66.

    redshirt

    November 20, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    @Heliopause:

    Why does everybody always act like this was a bad thing?

    The legacy of Rome still defines Europe – European states of 2015 are still largely reflective of former Roman provinces.

    Plus, the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church are direct continuations of Roman systems.

    And finally, it’s my crusade to convince the world that the Roman Empire fell in 1453, not 475. It lasted almost a thousand years after what we’ve been taught was the end.

  67. 67.

    Calouste

    November 20, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Perhaps most importantly, the determination to destroy the Islamic State militant group is put above getting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad out of power.

    Can’t see anything wrong with getting rid of Daesh been given a higher priority than getting rid of Assad. While Assad is an oppressive, murderous dictator, he doesn’t actually have genocide as one of his goals and keeps his shit within his own borders.

  68. 68.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    @? Martin: My winger relatives have been pissing their pants since the Panama Canal ‘giveaway’. (Longer than that probably, but before that I had minimal contact with them.) Their mental image of the US is of a sort of Belize, while at the same time they’re bloody sociopaths cheering on every REPUBLICAN military intervention. Literally the only things I’ve ever seen on their TV is Fux news, and war movies- the glorification kind, no Full Metal Jackets, Breaker Morants…

  69. 69.

    Tommy

    November 20, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: That might be about the happiest thing I can hear.I can’t speak for Paris but pretty sure I am not going out on the limb to say it is a safe city.

  70. 70.

    trollhattan

    November 20, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:
    TDS just did a funny mashup of Huckabee’s fixation on the food metaphor. Surprised Christie ceded the metaphor without a fight.

  71. 71.

    Southern Goth

    November 20, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    @redshirt:

    Is there anybody, outside of maybe some fascist Italians, that pines for the re-establishment of the Roman Empire?

  72. 72.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    @Tommy: How so?

  73. 73.

    Wilson Heath

    November 20, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    I was already referring to the Hoveround brigade in their tricorner hats as the incontinental army.

  74. 74.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    @Southern Goth: they’ll settle for a military that somebody respects.

  75. 75.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 20, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    So, has Niall signed up to go to Syria and take on Daesh himself? Or to even man the walls of Vienna, for that matter? No?

    Then STFU you cowardly sack of shit.

  76. 76.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    @Wilson Heath: Keep your powder and Depends dry, boys!

  77. 77.

    redshirt

    November 20, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    @Southern Goth: Who’s talking about that? It’s nigh impossible.

    If anything, America has inherited the legacy of the Roman Empire. So we’re it.

  78. 78.

    Hoodie

    November 20, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    @? Martin: No disagreement here, but Ferguson knows better and is just a grifter. He will go with any bullshit that gets him in with the wealthy types that buy this decline of civilization narrative and are suckers for the whole scholarly Brit role playing. Ferguson is pond scum.

  79. 79.

    Peale

    November 20, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    @Brachiator: Yeah. I get the point of the whole “No. Obama. We must destroy them, not contain them” rhetoric. But I really would like to ask the French what they plan to do about it. These weren’t Syrians who attacked France. Primarily, they were European citizens of Moroccan descent. Yes, many of them had been to Syria, or wanted to go. But both France and Belgium weren’t able to stop and pick up a ringleader who was filmed in Syria with corpses. If the US commits to speeding up the action – commits troops to hold the territory in Iraq – and Russia does the same in Syria, a lot of those European soldiers are going to work their way back home. I doubt France or Belgium is going to be any more successful picking them up. Escalating wars tends to create even more refugees. So what’s the plan for dealing with those? Or are we going to avoid those simply because we are going to be so super fast with our new troops that those ISIS dudes aren’t gonna have a chance to slip out of the country and those people whose houses we’re destroying aren’t going to try to live somewhere else?

    If the plan is to just kill them all in Iraq, good luck. I honestly think that after almost 15 years, we may have killed 12 Taliban. Yeah, the papers say that there’s been more. But as of today there are 25,000 Taliban. And 15 years ago, there were 25,000 as well.

    I really would like someone to convince me that the expensive “massive shock and awe” approach is better. Its just more expensive. Do we have examples of terrorist groups that have been destroyed by massive intervention? Weakened for a time maybe, but in the past 14 years, has there been one group that no longer exists because we decided to focus on it for awhile? If not, then why bother?

  80. 80.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 20, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    @p.a.:

    the glorification kind, no Full Metal Jackets, Breaker Morants…

    Ah, missing out on the authentic war movies for the fantasy ones. Gotcha.

    They probably won’t enjoy Saving Private Ryan or Enemy at the Gates, either.

    Markup that is not put into place with the buttons still not working, btw.

  81. 81.

    Goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 4:22 pm

    These are the same xenophobic bedwetters screeching about “Mexicans” and how “Mexico” is secretly trying to re-Mexicanize the Southeast into Mexifornia.

    That would be the same Mexican immigrants who are leaving the U.S. at a faster rate than they are entering.

    Per Pew Research Center, there has been a net loss of 140,000 Mexican nationals from the US. between 2009 – 2014.

  82. 82.

    jl

    November 20, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    @Goblue72:

    ” Per Pew Research Center, there has been a net loss of 140,000 Mexican nationals from the US. between 2009 – 2014. :

    Geez, what a party pooper you are.

  83. 83.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    @Tommy:

    I can’t speak for Paris but pretty sure I am not going out on the limb to say it is a safe city.

    Well, Paris so far this year (both attacks included) has slightly more homicides than gun-totin’, self-protectin’ Dallas, a city half the size of Paris.

  84. 84.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    @Goblue72: So if we had built a border wall, there’d be 140,000 more undocumented here because they couldn’t get out?

  85. 85.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    @? Martin: Clearly, Parisians aren’t trying hard enough.

  86. 86.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    @? Martin: I’d imagine so.

    I’d provide a link to the study, but I’m too afraid of getting stuck in moderation.

  87. 87.

    EthylEster

    November 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    OT but I just noticed that the blogroll link to RealClimate.org is pointed at someplace I’ve never been. Is this a well-known problem (bad link) or has the domain name really expired…as it says at the top of the page the current link takes you to?

    Or am I losing my mind?

  88. 88.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 20, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    @efgoldman: You know, I pride myself on being a wide-ranging and adventurous eater, but the thought of something being processed in lye before going into my mouth is a barrier I can’t get over.

  89. 89.

    Mike in NC

    November 20, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Seems like the American media is in full blown “ISIS is coming to kill you!” panic mode. Those of us traveling long distances to visit relatives next week are almost guaranteed a miserable time getting there.

  90. 90.

    scav

    November 20, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    @efgoldman: Well, if they’re to be our new Overlords, I’m signing up under the Linie confessional, and I’m hoping for a little salmon on the flatbrøt.

  91. 91.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    November 20, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    Well, I think that this only proves that being scared to death of everything is what makes one a tough guy. Only gutless cowards fail to quake in fear of Syrian orphans and branches scraping against the house at night.

    In all seriousness, though, I can’t help almost feeling a little sorry for these people. How do they make it through the day with such overwhelming fear of everything?

  92. 92.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 20, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    @Mike in NC: It’s vital to give as much help as possible to the panderers of the Klown Kar in order to keep the horse race narrative intact for the general election a year less two weeks from now.

  93. 93.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 20, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Xenophobia is a helluva drug.

  94. 94.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    @Goblue72: That’s a trend begun under GW. One way to cut immigration is to trash the economy.

  95. 95.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    @? Martin:

    Pew study: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

    Meanwhile, of those Mexican nationals emigrating TO the United States, those migrants are increasingly more highly educated and skilled – http://news.rice.edu/2015/11/19/baker-institute-paper-number-of-high-skilled-mexican-entrepreneurs-migrating-to-us-has-increased/

    This is also the case for the Syrian refugees – a significant percentage of Syrian refugees have university-level degrees, and Syrian refugee population migrating into Europe is MORE likely to be an educated professional or from a more affluent background than other migrants into Europe.

    Quite glad my state’s (California) governor came out in favor of accepting the refugees. California gets it. You don’t want the best and brightest from the rest of the world? Fine. We’ll take ’em.

  96. 96.

    Archon

    November 20, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    Has anyone ever asked what the endgame is to conservative ideas and preferred policies, like as a human species endgame? At this point I would guess that most conservatives haven’t even considered looking ahead that far, or more darkly that the conservative project currently at it’s core is nihilistic. If human progress is the goal it’s literally impossible to look at conservative policies (at home or abroad) as idealistic or even positive, much less utopian.

  97. 97.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 20, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    @Archon: They want to undo all human progress since about 1400 or so.

    They want to return to feudalism.

    In this sense, they are firm allies of Daesh.

  98. 98.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    @goblue72: Posted the links. And of course, borked into moderation.

  99. 99.

    Amir Khalid

    November 20, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Traditional German Brezeln (pretzels, in English) are also dipped in lye before baking.

  100. 100.

    Lordwhorfin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    There is NO ‘Peak Wingnut.’ As this week so aptly proves.

  101. 101.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: olives, hominy, soft pretzels

  102. 102.

    scav

    November 20, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Important for hominy too.

  103. 103.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    @Archon: no endgame. Cleek’s Law all the way down.

  104. 104.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    @p.a.: The trend has actually accelerated from what I understand since the recovery started. That is, the net loss rate has increased not decreased, as the economy has improved.

    Rather, there is in part a cultural shift – the single biggest factor for return to Mexico cited by emigrants is family reunification. And the percentage of Mexican immigrants with friends or family in the U.S. has fallen.

    And by some measures, the number of immigrants from Mexico has now been surpassed by the number from China and the number from India.

    The more things stay the same, the more they change.

  105. 105.

    trollhattan

    November 20, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    @Lordwhorfin:
    We are left hoping wingnut keeps accelerating until it breaks free of earth’s gravity altogether. And they can’t have the moon, either.

  106. 106.

    Enhanced Voting Techinques

    November 20, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    Like the Roman Empire in the early 5th century, Europe has allowed its defences to crumble.

    Yes because socialism is just so much like castrophic crop failures combined with a massive trade deficite, never ending series of panepidemics and invasions.

    ISIS = Attila the Hun, how could we be so blind?

  107. 107.

    delk

    November 20, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    And just like that, my civilization destroying gay marriage has been rendered useless.

  108. 108.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 20, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: You lye!

  109. 109.

    Felonius Monk

    November 20, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    the thought of something being processed in lye before going into my mouth is a barrier I can’t get over.

    Then I presume you never ate real bagels or real pretzels. Both are boiled in lye before baking.

    ETA: Probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to boil all these PantzWetters in lye.

  110. 110.

    Elie

    November 20, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    @Peale:

    These soldiers have to be paid (Daesh) and the money mostly comes from territory they hold, This has shrunk recently, though obviously other financing from oil and rich patron Qtari and Saudi leadership. The best way, in my opinion which obviously is not professional, is that we make it expensive both in terms of costs of our blowing up their leaders and the necessary financial and IT forensics to disrupt their financial, communication and recruitment networks. They are including new nation state enemies in Russia and China (though they haven’t carried out anything around China’s interests yet – just threatened. They are spread pretty thin right now is my guess, though they seem to have plenty of foot soldiers. Leaders who know how to organize and implement these hits are rarer and each time they get killed, replacements must be trained and replaced. Their increased visibility with increasing international hits brings more of their surface area under investigation and possible attack. This will and is a long battle of attrition with some military aspects, but mostly policing and technical disruption. We should prepare ourselves for disappointments and set backs but a 500k army sitting in Syria or dotted through the ME would not change shit.

  111. 111.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    @p.a.: Moon cakes, some asian noodles, corn tortillas.

  112. 112.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    @goblue72: Leave it to conservatives to fight the last war. Hope the Mexican repatriation is due to improving conditions there, although as I type that, Mexico relies on oil prices, doesn’t it?

  113. 113.

    Patrick

    November 20, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    When a white guy killed 20 school children between 5 and 10 years old in Connecticut right-wingers did not want to do a damned thing to make sure it didn’t happen again. But when some European citizens commit a terrorist attack in France, right-wingers apparently are as scared of Syrian refugees as a five year old is of ghosts.

    Racism or insanity? Or both?

  114. 114.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 20, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    @p.a.: Things I don’t eat.

  115. 115.

    Elie

    November 20, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    @goblue72:

    Yeah, I heard on the radio that the net direction of Mexicans is out of the US….

    Should have an interesting impact on construction, farming and other industries up here in the NW.

  116. 116.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 20, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    @Archon: The ones who take the long view tend to be very big on hierarchy, authority and obedience. The whole human species, from races and nations down to the nuclear family, carefully sorted into higher and lower groups and higher and lower people, with the higher nobly administering and the lower happily obedient. And everyone ceding authority to the correct God at the very top.

    You get the purest form with the religious guys and the Mencius Moldbug-type neo-reactionaries. They’re convinced it’s the only way to avoid a parade of horribles of modern society.

    The more libertarian types claim to be against this vision, but scratch them and you’ll usually find an advocate of a similar hierarchy who just wants the sorting to be done by who has the most money, or the biggest bitcoin-mining machine or whatever. They may leave out God and the state.

  117. 117.

    Schlemazel

    November 20, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    @efgoldman:
    I have had Lutefisk twice in my life. The first time it was an inoffensive nothing that when dipped in butter was just OK. The second time it was like eating lye-based wallpaper paste. Apparently knowing how to cook it is key.

    I worked with a guy who still had family in Norway. He went to visit & asked them about lutefisk. Their response was “We haven’t eaten that shit since we got refrigeration!”

  118. 118.

    GxB

    November 20, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    @efgoldman: Could be worse – could be surstromming.

  119. 119.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    November 20, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    @Patrick:

    I’m voting for both.

  120. 120.

    Germy

    November 20, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    @Archon: Their endgame is to free the genius captains of industry from pesky taxes and regulations. Once this is accomplished, the golden age will commence, with wealth trickling down to good, hardworking citizens.

  121. 121.

    pseudonymous in nc

    November 20, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    I’m old enough to remember when Niall Ferguson was a historian. Long, long time ago.

  122. 122.

    Germy

    November 20, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    I’m old enough to remember when Niall Ferguson was a historian.

    that’s old!

  123. 123.

    scav

    November 20, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: well, then, avoid canned mandarine oranges too (Public Service Announcement).

  124. 124.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Do the principles of western democracies also include genocide by starvation?

    Apparently so. In addition to the famines in India you mention, there’s the Irish Potato Famine- Ireland was still a net food exporter even as more than a million Irish starved to death- and the American destruction of buffalo herds to starve the Plains Indians into submission. I’m sure there are more that don’t come to mind immediately.

  125. 125.

    Germy

    November 20, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    Cats that look like pinup girls

    Maybe I’m in the wrong thread.

  126. 126.

    Schlemazel

    November 20, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    @Felonius Monk:
    Most people have never eaten a real bagel, only those abominations sold at places like Einstein’s.

    Corn meal is treated with lye also, Native Americans and South Americans figured this out centuries ago but pellagra was rampant in the southern US until European decedents figured it out.

  127. 127.

    Elie

    November 20, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    @Patrick:

    Honestly, there is NO answer that is rational or logical. It is downright painful to hear the horror of this situation over and over, knowing there is no real way to wake these people up…. the fear that we might not be able to contain their fear and anxiety and that bad things can happen… They are changing living in this country into a nightmare of hate and bottomless pit of sadness and fear. We are in the midst of an epidemic as virulent as ebola… All we can do is wring our hands and stand ready to take a real stand if necessary –

  128. 128.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    @Germy: Maybe Rick Santorum was right.

  129. 129.

    Germy

    November 20, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    @goblue72:

    Maybe Rick Santorum was right.

    He most certainly was. Just look at those cats.

  130. 130.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    @Archon:

    Has anyone ever asked what the endgame is to conservative ideas and preferred policies, like as a human species endgame?

    I think their expected endgame is The Rapture. Long term planning is unimportant if the world is going to end any time.

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    @goblue72:

    And by some measures, the number of immigrants from Mexico has now been surpassed by the number from China and the number from India.

    IIRC, it’s that the number of new immigrants from Mexico is now outpaced by those from China and from India. Mexico still leads in the total number in the country already.

  132. 132.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 20, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    @Elie:

    They are including new nation state enemies in Russia and China (though they haven’t carried out anything around China’s interests yet – just threatened.

    I think they recently executed a Chinese hostage, so China may have an increased interest.

  133. 133.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: You can get yummy unlyed olives (vinegar/wine/lemon juice processed) at any Middle Eastern market IF YOU DARE ;-) Lye processed corn makes more nutrients available. Pozole at any Mexican restaurant or taco wagon IF YOU DARE, usually on weekends. And corn tortillas have it over flour for me.

  134. 134.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    @Felonius Monk:

    Then I presume you never ate real bagels or real pretzels. Both are boiled in lye before baking.

    Bagels are not boiled in lye; they’re boiled in water. Depending on the style, the water may have a little bit of salt, sugar, or honey added, but not lye.

  135. 135.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    @? Martin:

    corn tortillas

    Not quite. Corn for tortillas (or hominy) is traditionally treated with lime (i.e. calcium hydroxide) not lye (sodium or potassium hydroxide).

  136. 136.

    Karmus

    November 20, 2015 at 5:11 pm

    My dear friend is in tears because her sister in Texas is dying, like her best friend a few years before, and she’s fallen between the cracks of the health-care system. She very probably would not have done so had that state not rejected Medicaid expansion. My friend and I live in Florida, and I at least have been between the cracks for many years–at least I am physically stable, although I do have health needs that are not being met. How many tens or hundreds of thousands of people, of American citizens, are suffering or will suffer because of the political games being played with people’s lives? But these bedwetters are fine with that. They just want to be scared by the boogeyman. Kentucky is a perfect example of voters taking it up the poop chute and smiling and saying, “more please, as long as those people suffer too.” I suppose they can nod at each other and say, “at least we’re not in Paris.” Such oblivious idiocy boggles my mind.

  137. 137.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 5:11 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Do the principles of western democracies also include genocide by starvation?

    New England settlers left their hogs unpenned so they could root out and destroy Native Americans’ crops, which were unfenced (or insecurely fenced against pigs).

  138. 138.

    Sad_Dem

    November 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    @Peale: “So in summary, everything is either Munich in 1938 or Rome in 475 1/2.”

    Just like people with past lives were soldiers in Charlemagne’s army–never Pepin the Hunchback’s.

  139. 139.

    Brachiator

    November 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    @Peale:

    Do we have examples of terrorist groups that have been destroyed by massive intervention?

    Depends on how you want to define terrorists. For now, the Tamils in Sri Lanka have been ruthlessly suppressed and that country’s civil war ended.

    But you could go back to the harrying of the North, when William I laid waste to English opposition to his rule in 1069. Effective? Very. Don’t want to look at the Danish and English opposition to William as terrorists? A matter of perspective.

    Could a Republican president be as ruthless, and drop any pretense of “regime change” in order to “guarantee” that the American people would not be bothered by the possibility of a terrorist attack? Would people rise up to prevent it?

  140. 140.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 5:15 pm

    @Roger Moore: correction noted

  141. 141.

    Sad_Dem

    November 20, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    @delk: “And just like that, my civilization destroying gay marriage has been rendered useless.” Don’t feel so bad. You helped.

  142. 142.

    catclub

    November 20, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    @Rock:

    Paris is not dead

    Whatever happened to Boston Strong?

  143. 143.

    p.a.

    November 20, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    @Brachiator: being on an island helps contain any insurgency.

    Sherman’s march thru the South was effective. The gvt of the US just didn’t have the will to keep it up for a generation, which was necessary.

  144. 144.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    @Roger Moore: From the study in my link:

    Using this measure for 2013, about 147,000 Chinese immigrants came to the U.S., compared with 129,000 Indian immigrants and 125,000 Mexican immigrants.

  145. 145.

    Mary G

    November 20, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    Here’s some more depressing news: Wapo’s newest poll shows majority of Americans agree with the bedwetting Republicans:

    — By 54-43, Americans oppose taking in refugees from the conflicts in Syria and other Mideast countries even after screening them for security.

    — By 52-47, Americans are not confident that the U.S. can identify and keep out possible terrorists who may be among these refugees. (One bright spot: 78 percent of Americans don’t think religion should be considered in determining whether to accept refugees.)

    — By 81-18, Americans think it is likely that there will be a terrorist attack in the U.S. in the near future that will cause large numbers of lives to be lost.

    — By 55-45, Americans are not confident in the ability of the U.S. government to prevent further terror attacks against Americans here.

    — By 72-25, Americans say that it is more important for the government to investigate terror threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy, rather than refraining from intruding on personal privacy.

    I’ve decided to go to bed early, eating chocolate and listening to audiobooks by Georgette Heyer, and pretending the rest of the world doesn’t exist.

  146. 146.

    Calouste

    November 20, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    @Elie: It very similar to the tactics Lawrence of Arabia used to get the Ottomans out of the Arabian peninsula. Blowing up trains and railroads didn’t really have much impact, because the Ottomans could replace them, but targeting locomotives crippled them, because they couldn’t really fix them themselves and getting spare parts from Germany was problematic during WWI.

    The same applies to Daesh. Suicide bombers are, by their very nature, expandable. The recruiters, trainers, organizers, and bomb experts however are not expendable, there aren’t many of them and training them takes time and requires certain skills. And these guys are mostly operating from the territory Daesh controls in Syria.

  147. 147.

    benw

    November 20, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    The RWNJs have gone from “Oh God! The government is coming for MEEEEEE!” to “Oh yeah? The government is coming for YOOOOOOOOOU!” so fast my head is still spinning.

  148. 148.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    @Roger Moore: Correct, but why would one discriminate between eating lye vs lime treated food? Both are pH around 12. Lye is at least water soluble and easier to dilute.

  149. 149.

    bemused

    November 20, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    @Archon:

    No long term thinking similar to corporations looking only as far as the end of current quarter profits, their stock market status, and their shareholders.

  150. 150.

    Calouste

    November 20, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    @Sad_Dem:

    Just like people with past lives were soldiers generals in Charlemagne’s army–never Pepin the Hunchback’s.

    Accurified.

  151. 151.

    goblue72

    November 20, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    @Mary G: Not surprised. I have pretty low opinion of the intellectual and emotional capacities of most Americans.

  152. 152.

    WaterGirl

    November 20, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    @? Martin: I thought BGinChi was our man on the ground in Norway? (Or did I just blow his cover?)

  153. 153.

    bemused

    November 20, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    Ha, I live in Scandinavian heavy MN and would never touch lutefisk even though my parents would get it for holiday “treat”. When I saw that the clerks at the grocery store meat counter had to wear plastic gloves to handle the lye soaked shit, I couldn’t fathom why anyone would want to eat it.

  154. 154.

    ? Martin

    November 20, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    Ok, so Houston and Paris are pretty much exactly the same size in terms of population. Last year Paris had 73 homicides, Houston had 242. 16 people were killed in the Hebdo attacks earlier this year, and 130 in the most recent attack. Assuming the same rate this year as last, but adding in the 146 from the two attacks, Paris (219) would still be safer than Houston (242), in spite of the nearly 1 million conceal-carry license holders in GOP-loving Texas.

    Now, I’m sure all of those Houston victims were deserving, or some shit, but we really need to get a bit of perspective in this country.

  155. 155.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    @Roger Moore: There are many examples, I haven’t read this book myself but it talks about the Late Victorian Holocausts caused by the Invisible Hand. Is this is what the Republicans want for the rest of us?

    ETA: Its not a coincidence that the parts of India that British ruled over the longest, are among its poorest.

  156. 156.

    JMG

    November 20, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    @Mary G: This was a country frightened of destitute children from Central America last year. Ignorance, and America’s general knowledge of the world outside itself is damn near nil, breeds fear.

  157. 157.

    Satby

    November 20, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    @Felonius Monk: I use food grade lye in my soap.

  158. 158.

    Brachiator

    November 20, 2015 at 6:03 pm

    @Calouste:

    Can’t see anything wrong with getting rid of Daesh been given a higher priority than getting rid of Assad. While Assad is an oppressive, murderous dictator, he doesn’t actually have genocide as one of his goals and keeps his shit within his own borders.

    Keeping his shit within his own borders, I guess, leaves out the millions who have fled, fearing murder and oppression.

    And a September 28 Atlantic article made the following claim, looking at Russian support of Assad:

    Assad’s plan, it seems, is to deliberately aid the rise of ISIS—what I call the devil’s gambit. The logic is simple and ruthless: radicalize the opposition so that the Syrian dictator looks like a lesser evil to domestic and foreign audiences. Here, Assad benefits from the inherently polarizing nature of civil war, as a cycle of atrocities and revenge pushes all sides to the extreme.

    He has further spurred radicalization by focusing the regime’s fire on moderate enemies, while reportedly releasing jihadists from jail and purchasing oil from ISIS. In recent months, the Syrian military allegedly used air strikes to help ISIS advance toward the city of Aleppo. Khaled Khoja, a Syrian opposition leader, claimed that Assad’s fighter jets were acting as “an air force for ISIS.”

    What a mess.

  159. 159.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    @? Martin:

    Correct, but why would one discriminate between eating lye vs lime treated food?

    Lime is both less basic (pKb of about 2.4 vs. 0.2) and much less soluble than lye. The solubility is probably more important. A saturated lime solution is only about 2-3 mM, which keeps its pH within reasonable bounds and means food prepared with lime can be eaten without further treatment. Lye is much more soluble- it’s actually deliquescent- so lye solutions can be extremely caustic, and some foods prepared with lye actually need to be neutralized or rinsed clean before they’re safely edible. That’s an important difference.

  160. 160.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 6:15 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I haven’t read this book myself but it talks about the Late Victorian Holocausts caused by the Invisible Hand.

    I would be careful with anything Mike Davis wrote. He cares a great deal more about exiting rhetoric and political point scoring than rigorous adherence to the truth. You need to be very careful about both his factual evidence and his interpretation.

  161. 161.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Keeping his shit within his own borders, I guess, leaves out the millions who have fled, fearing murder and oppression.

    And Syria’s long-term involvement in Lebanon.

  162. 162.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 20, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    @Roger Moore: That’s the overall feeling I got. Hence the disclaimer.

  163. 163.

    a different chris

    November 20, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: No! They are polar opposites! The Wahabists are blinkered pig-ignorant sociopaths who believe their religion is true and all other religions are false, therefore anything they do is justified. While at the other end of the spectrum, the Christianists are blinkered pig-ignorant sociopaths who believe their religion is true and all other religions are false, therefore anything they do is justified. So it’s blatantly obvious which side is Good Guys and which side is Bad Guys, and if you can’t spot the difference you need your head examined!

  164. 164.

    Roger Moore

    November 20, 2015 at 6:49 pm

    @a different chris:

    So it’s blatantly obvious which side is Good Guys and which side is Bad Guys, and if you can’t spot the difference you need your head examined!

    Yep, it is obvious. The one who spells God’s name the right way is pure good, and the one that spells it the wrong way is 100% evil. Either that or they’re both awful and need to be locked in with each other and away from the rest of us.

  165. 165.

    shell

    November 20, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    Fuckin Hell! Whats the matter with these people?

  166. 166.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 20, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    Jesus people, Paris was not killed by complacency. Paris was killed by Philoctetes – aided and abetted by Oenone’s refusal to heal him.

  167. 167.

    redshirt

    November 20, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: That’s some high falutin obscure reference right there.

  168. 168.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 20, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    @redshirt: I am just surprised that no one here went there before me.

  169. 169.

    redshirt

    November 20, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Really? You have a classy sense of expectations.

  170. 170.

    Uncle Cosmo

    November 20, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    @efgoldman: Once upon a time there was a brilliant description on the Net of an American’s experience with lutefisk. One thing I remember was the author’s description of how to prepare for ingesting the stuff.

    One begins by assembling the necessary equipment: A blindfold, a bottle of ketchup, a pack of saltine crackers, a dishtowel, a bottle of akvavit & a shot glass. The process:

    (1) Fill the shot glass with akvavit & put a dollop of ketchup on a saltine.
    (2) Toss down the alcohol.
    (3) Put on blindfold.
    (4) Eat the saltine.
    (5) Bite on the dishtowel.
    (6) If you can still distinguish the taste of the dishtowel from the taste of the saltine, return to step (1).
    (7) If you cannot distinguish them apart by taste, you are drunk enough to eat lutefisk.

  171. 171.

    Sad_Dem

    November 20, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Bravo!

  172. 172.

    Procopius

    November 20, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    @Hoodie: I would say academics at Oxford and Harvard have misled themselves. Fergusson is not a historian. He is a novelist. Like most undergraduates he memorized enough facts to pass his exams and then promptly forgot them. He discovered there is more money to be made telling made-up stories than from telling stories derived from research and study.

  173. 173.

    sneezy

    November 20, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Markup that is not put into place with the buttons still not working, btw. As a test, all the markup in this reply was inserted manually. Let’s see if it works.

  174. 174.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 21, 2015 at 12:44 am

    @redshirt:

    If anything, America has inherited the legacy of the Roman Empire. So we’re it.

    Wake me up when State of Florida decides to build roads 1/10 as durable as the Romans’.

    You know who else did interesting stuff with rainwater collection? The Indians.

  175. 175.

    J R in WV

    November 21, 2015 at 12:47 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Lots of corn is processed with lye, like taco shells, grits, hominey, etc.

    ETA: Not that I’m advocating the preparation and consumption of lutefisk!!

  176. 176.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 21, 2015 at 12:49 am

    @scav: Actually, the Cherokee used potash, but, yeah, Mexicans use lime.

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