Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

The willow is too close to the house.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

No one could have predicted…

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

You are here: Home / Books / A Shuttered Past

A Shuttered Past

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I think we need some antidote to the depths of derp we’ve seen (and on this blog picked over with all the horror that follows a good look at last night’s supper this morning) coming from the Syrians Are Coming brigade of bed-wetters.

So, instead, let’s take a look at someone who used their media smarts for good — and, in doing so, helped forge the chain that led to the fact (glory be) that we have the president we do right now, serving as a bulwark against the stupid that would have toppled a lesser person.

That would be this man:

Frederick_Douglass_c1860s

 

That’s Frederick Douglass, of course, in a shot taken in the 1860s.

Here he is as a younger man:

Unidentified_Artist_-_Frederick_Douglass_-_Google_Art_Project-restore

 

And in old age:

Frederick_Douglass_LOC_collodion_c1865-80

Those are three of the 160 surviving photographs taken of Douglass — a figure that currently ranks as the most confirmed separate portraits taken of any American in the 19th century.*  Scholars John Stauffer, Zoe Trodd and Celeste Marie-Bernier have a new book out, Picturing Frederick Douglass,  In it they use a sequence of images to drive a new biography of Douglass, and in doing so allow us to see technological change as it was lived — and used — by a brilliant observer of his own life and times.  As the authors write in the introduction, Douglass loved photography, and saw it as an exceptionally potent tool for making the world a different and better place. Douglass loved the fact that

What was the special and exclusive of the rich and great is now the privilege of all. The humblest servant girl may now possess a picture of herself such as the wealth of kings could not purchase 50 years ago.

In that context Stauffer, Trodd and Marie-Bernier make the case that Douglass saw photography as  tool to alter social reality:

Poets, prophets and reformers are all picture-makers–and this ability is the secret of their power and of their achievements. They see the what ought to be by the reflection of what is, and endeavor to remove the contradiction.

 

Such reasoning (and more besides) led Douglass to the photographer’s studio over and over again, actively seeking out the camera as a tool that could help him create the reality of African-American humanity, presence, significance.

Photography allowed him to be seen.  In that determined, asserted presence,  you have (it seems to me) an early herald of of the circumstances in which Barack Obama could become president.  Alas, in the fact of the racist and vicious forces with which Douglass had to contend, we can be similarly reminded that in our times the sight of a black man commanding our gaze drives too many among us into spasms of demented, terribly dangerous rage.

But put that aside for a second, and look at some fabulous images of an extraordinary — and extraordinary-looking — man.  (A few more examples.)

And if you feel the need for some open thread, well take that too.

*The runners-up are cool too:  In the research for this book, the authors found George Armstrong Custer, that avatar of puffed-up vanity, taking second place, with 155 portraits.  Red Cloud came next at 128, followed by Whitman and Lincoln at 127 and 126, the poet and his captain connected again.  It seems likely, according to these writers, that when further work is done, Ulysses S. Grant may trump them all, but that doesn’t change the point of what Douglass set out to do.

Images:

1.  c. 1860s

2.  c. 1850, daguerrotype

3. before 1880, Brady-Handy collection.

Reader Interactions

132Comments

  3. 3.

    NotMax

    Sitting for portraits, shirking the work to be done.

    Just like Obama and golf.

    /rwnj presumed response

  4. 4.

    mzrad

    Thanks for this. I love teaching _The Autobiography of Fredrick Douglass_ to undergrads. My reading in the realm of literature about the African American experience (including _Our Nig_, _Uncle Tom’s Cabin_, _Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_, _The Street_, _Native Son_, and _Beloved_) is limited but I’m grateful for having had the opportunity to study with Susan Gubar at Indiana University.

    Photography in the c19 is fascinating.

  5. 5.

    srv

    Professor Levenson, a friends daughter visited last week and she’s applying to colleges. Her interests are art, writing (has written two 30K word novels) and science. ACT is 34 or something. Top 10 of around 400 in her senior class in SoCal.

    She’s looking at Santa Cruz, Berkeley, UCLA (apparently too hard to get into) and Iowa because of the Workshop. Folks want her to stay in-state for cost, but I told he she needs to look at BU, MIT or at least somewhere NE. IDK anything about MIT’s undergraduate program – would you have a list of top 5 other schools with good undergraduate programs that would mix writing and science? Thx.

  6. 6.

    Luthe

    What was the special and exclusive of the rich and great is now the privilege of all. The humblest servant girl may now possess a picture of herself such as the wealth of kings could not purchase 50 200 years ago.

    Suck it, selfie haters. Fredrick Douglass just came out of the past and smacked you down.

    Two other fun things I have learned about selfies: 1) future historians and anthropologists are going to think they are the best thing ever, because clues about how people lived everyday lives in the past as like gold to them; 2) The Venus of Willendorf was a selfie.

  7. 7.

    Thoughtful Today

    In the previous thread, I asked, perhaps unfairly, Amir Khalid, who I’ve assumed is a Malaysian citizen:

    How will Malaysia aggressively police the slavery that’s widely reported being used in Malaysia?

    The TPP, which Clinton will support with a few tweaks, has aspirational language that condemns slavery. But I don’t see any _teeth_ in those provisions as it largely outsources such labor practices to the member-countries.

    And there’s history showing the Clintons’ right-wing-neoliberal-liberalizing-free-trade economic trade policies have _not_ been a path to freedom to oppressed people.

    The Clintons’ right-wing economic policies in 1993 supported the Most Favored Nation status with China.

    The claim was that free-trade would democratize trade partners.

    22 years later the dictatorship of China is _stronger_ because of Clintons’ right-wing economic policies and America’s middle class _weaker_.

    Clinton supporters are welcome to explain how China’s oppressive labor tactics are different from slavery, it’s a fair point, but it’s a lawyerly point that’s often a distinction without a difference.

  10. 10.

    Tom Levenson

    @srv: MIT is great, (but you knew I would say that). Wellesley is very good too — and its students can cross register at MIT (and many do). There is a new five-year BA/BS double degree program that lets Wellesley students get degrees from both institutions. Among the Ivy’s, I’m a big fan of Columbia as just a hugely exciting place to study (my nephew went there and thrived.) Given the size of the institutions your friend’s sprout is looking at, I’m guessing that the liberal-arts college is less her thing, but there are a number of really good ones that have both strong undergraduate science research opportunities and good liberal arts. I’m not up enough on them to know which ones are particularly strong in creative writing, but that’s something to be researched.

  17. 17.

    Brachiator

    @efgoldman:

    He must have been hugely intimidating in person.

    One historian, Waldo Martin, remarked that Douglass was a kind of antebellum sex symbol, and that both black and white women “unquestionably found Douglass irresistibly charming.”

    It was also noted that “as compliments regarding Douglass’ charm and eloquence grew, so did suspicions that he was not really an ex slave.” Refusing to inject “a little of the plantation” into his speeches, he instead wrote his Narrative, which became a great success.

    Perversely, Douglass and other black abolitionists became so acclaimed when visiting Britain that “white women an men sometimes colored their hands and faces,” noted in Gregory Stephens book, “On Racial Frontiers.” On the other hand, Douglass not only cheered the elites, but inspired the lower classes, who “chanted his slogans and wrote lines from his speeches on church walls.”

  19. 19.

    srv

    @Tom Levenson: Wellesley sounds interesting, I didn’t think of any schools that might have cross-registration with smaller liberals arts colleges. I mentioned Washington in St. Louis to them but really just heresay knowledge about it.

    They’re intimidated about the cost, my neice got through BU from the same level of affluence and a little over 1/3 worth of scholarship so they could probably pull it off. Maybe look at a smaller/cheaper college for a couple of years and then transfer in.

    Thanks.

  23. 23.

    Thoughtful Today

    Amir Khalid, for the half-dozen plus posts where you addressed me even though I hadn’t commented in those posts, I’m okay with this (so far) single instance of turnabout.

  24. 24.

    NotMax

    @srv

    Among smaller, more intimate liberal arts schools with strengths in both disciplines and impressive faculty to student ratios, she might look at Swarthmore (shares course availability with Haverford and Bryn Mawr, perhaps others by now) or Macalester (shares with University of St. Thomas, St. Catherine University, Hamline University, and Augsburg College).

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    @NotMax

    Should have included the part in bold below.

    Among smaller, more intimate liberal arts schools with strengths in both disciplines and impressive faculty to student ratios and generous financial aid packages

  28. 28.

    Crashman

    @srv: Your friend’s daughter sounds really accomplished. For what it’s worth, my cousin was a similarly good student and BU offered him a full scholarship about 6 years ago. He wound up going to Brown instead, which I suppose I understand, but it’s hard for me to imagine turning down a full ride. Maybe she could get the same?

  29. 29.

    Mike in NC

    After reading the nasty, distorted comments from Ted Cruz in Iowa, am I a bad person for wanting to watch rats eat his face?

  33. 33.

    NotMax

    @Luthe

    Time enough to last minute cram for that exam or put finishing flourishes on a paper!

    srv: Located somewhat off the beaten track, but she might also check out Grinnell.

  36. 36.

    Cervantes

    @srv:

    MIT: unbeatable science programs, great writing programs — although it’s more difficult to get into than UCLA, a concern you mentioned above.

    NYU and Hamilton College both have great writing programs — as does Michigan.

    You’re not wrong about WUSTL, either.

    And has she looked at smaller places, such as Reed?

    As an undergraduate, is she looking for a writing program that’s heavily mentored?

  38. 38.

    srv

    @Crashman: Will have to ask my sister what the real number was, somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 from memory. She had a full boat to some of the tiny colleges out in the country but don’t remember which ones. BU just knocked her eyes out, they dragged her off the campus.

    @schrodinger’s cat: UMASS would be more affordable and enough to cross-polinate.

    She just needs to get out there and see it all. Applying a lot of places but cutoffs for next Fall are probably Jan/Feb…

    @NotMax: Grinnell is a great idea, female relatives who worked on masters there. Probably a bit more diverse than Iowa and a lot less binge drinking.

  41. 41.

    Cervantes

    But put that aside for a second, and look at some fabulous images of an extraordinary — and extraordinary-looking — man.

    Thanks for the post. Truly an antidote.

    (Apart from Custer, whose vanity was the least of his problems.)

  42. 42.

    srv

    @NotMax: Oberlin… that’s the one I couldn’t remember. I kept thinking Olin – niece was offered a full boat there. Too modern for her, but would have turned her into a real conservative.

  44. 44.

    srv

    @Cervantes: She might have mentioned Brandeis, but didn’t know anything about BU/etc. She has dual citizenship with Canada (that’s what they said, but IDK if that’s true – she was born there), so I mentioned Toronto too.

  45. 45.

    Gimlet

    The GOP farm club for bigots just keeps putting out fresh faces.

    The Hill

    Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) says refugees fleeing war-torn Syria are trying to come to the U.S. for a “paid vacation” in the form of generous welfare programs.

    “I’m one of these folks that think we need to stop paying these folks to come here, and we’re paying them about $15,000 a year in free health care, free food, free shelter, free clothing, free transportation,” Brooks said on the Dale Jackson Show on Friday, as first reported by the liberal media outlet ThinkProgress.

    “You know, just go down the litany of wealth-transfer programs that these people are entitled to, and that answers very quickly why so many of them want to come to the United States of America, we’re paying them to come here,” Brooks continued. “Paid vacation!”

  46. 46.

    NotMax

    @Gimlet

    If memory serves, he’s the same piece of work who promised to launch impeachment proceedings at 12:01 p.m. on inauguration day if Hillary gets in.

  48. 48.

    Wordpress Developers

    So, all, how is the site performing this evening? I think that the server upgrade was completed and the site seems plenty zippy on my mobile connection iPhone, and caching issues seem to be improved for me. I won’t be back online until Monday but will try to check in again later this evening. I’m hoping that RSS and cache issues and mobile refresh and related issues are resolved!

    – Alain

  49. 49.

    Cervantes

    @srv:

    BU’s writing program is good. They have Sven Birkerts, Christopher Ricks, and others — good writers but also good teachers.

    My other recommendations are above. If she wants a small school out West, look at Reed and maybe the Claremont schools. In the North-east look at Hamilton.

  50. 50.

    debbie

    @WordPress Developers:

    I always have to re-refresh on my iPad. When I open the site, it’s where it was when I last visited.

    ETA: The site loads much more quickly on my laptop. No minute-long churnings.

  51. 51.

    Cervantes

    @Amir Khalid:

    “Troll”?

    You object to your being asked about slavery in Malaysia?

    Or you object to anyone being asked about slavery in Malaysia?

    Is this slavery a figment of someone’s imagination? If it is real, should we ignore it?

  52. 52.

    frosty

    @srv:

    would you have a list of top 5 other schools with good undergraduate programs that would mix writing and science? Thx.

    Look at Harvey Mudd College in Claremont. Primarily focused on science and technology, but requires (or used to) a third of the credits to be in the humanities.

  64. 64.

    NotMax

    @WordPress Developers

    Just curious (not a complaint, truly curiosity) what the perceived utility of the circle with the total number of replies is, as the number of comments is already listed in the post itself (twice) and people are mostly going to be scrolling down past the circle toward the most recent comments anyway.

    Now, if it were clickable to jump to the comment number shown… (although that contains its own self-evident drawbacks too).

  65. 65.

    Sibelius

    @debbie: I still have to do a hard refresh on my new Macbook. I don’t know whether it’s me not knowing how to use this thing yet or not.

    I’m tired of the pizza headed cat I’ll tell you that.

    My iPad seemed fine last night.

  67. 67.

    Mike J

    @NotMax: It’s a circle, so it is self-evidently cool. You get to use border-top-left-radius and all its little friends. It isn’t obvious how to make a circle in html, so if you have an excuse to throw one in, you do.

  69. 69.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    Would add that lots of folks have requested that the back button actually go back.

    (Not a problem have encountered personally, but certainly one many others have expressed dismay about.)

  70. 70.

    Mike in NC

    @rikyrah: There don’t appear to have been many movies about Frederick Douglass. He was played by the late Raymond St Jacques (uncredited cameo) in 1989’s “Glory” opposite Matthew Broderick and Denzel Washington.

  71. 71.

    a different chris

    Have the page titles been eliminated, on purpose? (title bar says “Balloon Juice” on every page, not just the front page)

    Less information is almost never better.

  72. 72.

    The Other Chuck

    @Cervantes:

    You object to your being asked about slavery in Malaysia?

    He objects to being asked by some asshole who only wants to provoke, not discuss. That’s what a troll is.

  74. 74.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cervantes:
    Bringing up slavery in Malaysia is one thing, and not objectionable per se. I don’t defend such labour abuses here and I never will; I’ve already said so. Bringing it up specifically to change the subject when asked to defend his arguments is lame. Thoughtful Today began bringing it up because of what he considered my dismissiveness towards his favourite presidential candidate. TT said so himself. He seems to think this an effective refutation of my opinions re Bernie Sanders. That’s why I don’t take him seriously.

    I’m not the only commenter he does this to.

  75. 75.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @WordPress Developers: Hi Alain – thanks for checking in. It’s plenty speedy and all your hard work is appreciated. Now that the server upgrade went through, will the team get a change to look at accessibility issues with the design? A commenter who uses a screen reader noted yesterday that it was a design component that needs some attention.

  77. 77.

    The Other Chuck

    @WordPress Developers: How about creating that page where people can report issues with the site? I think Cole mentioned putting it in the “About” menu next to the Lexicon, though I suggest it belongs under “Contact Us” instead.

  80. 80.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Frederick Douglass was indeed and extraordinary looking man, and the strength of his gaze in portraits is remarkable. It’s reminiscent of the gaze in many of indigenous portraits by Edward Sheriff Curtis, and Chief Joseph comes to mind. In fact there’s even (to my eye) a striking similarity of physiognomy.

    ETA? Was that an excessively ornamental way to note that they resemble one another?

  83. 83.

    Mike J

    @NotMax: I mentioned it a few days earlier too. I don’t use a screen reader, but my clients are of a size that whole teams of people have to sign off on everything, including accessibility, so running it through Jaws is always a step in the process before turning it in.

    It’s easier to make it work right if it’s baked in from the beginning. Moving the menu can be kind of a pain. Generally you put the code for sidebars, top menus, etc at the bottom of the code and use css to make them show up where you want.

    Some people will let you get away with a link to jump past all the header stuff and get right to the content. It’s sort of a 1998 solution, but it works.

  85. 85.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    @efgoldman:

    Tab offers only a one-time approximation, you clueless old fart.

    ETA: And remind me, where’s the tab key on my tablet (or phone)?

  86. 86.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @NotMax: Thanks for linking that. I still have link phobia.

    @Corner Stone: I was trying to mock myself! Plus, Baud! says he won’t let me be on the ticket because I’m not really from Idaho. I’ve suggested I used use the fka part of my name, but negotiations have stalled. I’ve told him I’ll be more than satisfied with Interior or Justice if I can’t make the ticket.

  87. 87.

    eemom

    I liked the thingie the blog used to have where you could click on the previous and next posts without going back to the home page, but that seems to be gone. Or am I missing something?

  88. 88.

    NotMax

    @eemom

    The little gray “ears” at midscreen which follow along as you scroll do that now. With some exceptions on mobile devices.

  90. 90.

    Steeplejack

    @eemom:

    If you’re on a computer (maybe an iPad), there are pop-out “wings” on either side of the page that allow you to go to the previous or next post. Phone or (Android) tablet, you’re out of luck, because the redesigners apparently didn’t bother to check whether their new design successfully translated to that environment.

    ETA: And of course they removed the previous permanent links that accomplished the same thing.

  91. 91.

    Steeplejack

    And I’m still getting the “server connection reset” error at about the same rate as before the tweaking this afternoon.

  95. 95.

    Thoughtful Today

    Amir Khalid says: “I don’t defend such labour abuses here and I never will;”

    Amir, you explicitly joked about slavery under the photo of a beautiful black baby.

    Forgive me for being humorless, but I’ve known too many right-wingers that have made that “joke” to find it funny.

    That you’re preferred American President supported the TPP, which would expand trade relations with the slavery riddled country you’re living in, is on the short list of serious issues I profoundly abhor. It’s the same right-wing-neoliberal nonsense Bill pushed in ’93.

    President Clinton’s betrayal of his campaign promise to revoke the dictatorship of China’s Most Favored Nation status deeply wounded American workers, helped the Billionaire Walton heirs whom Hillary had worked for as a Board Member of Walmart, and empowered China’s dictatorship.

  96. 96.

    Steeplejack

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I was wondering if HHA was going kind of meta there, like “upgrade redesign” meant “redesign of the upgrade.” Actually, I guess that’s the only way to read it.

  98. 98.

    Cervantes

    @Amir Khalid:

    Thanks for the response.

    Bringing up slavery in Malaysia is one thing, and not objectionable per se. I don’t defend such labour abuses here and I never will

    Granted a priori. (I doubt anyone here thinks otherwise.)

    But to me, the question is still germane because of the TPP. Supporters thereof can’t say it does much for labor rights if they can’t even show how it addresses slavery. (Labor abuses don’t get much worse than that.) And said supporters also need to acknowledge that opposition to the TPP on this basis, e.g., on the part of Sanders, is not only legitimate; it is important, not merely in terms of economics and markets but morally. In short, supporters of the TPP should either address the slavery thing head-on or acknowledge that they are ignoring the morality of it.

    If that’s not what Thoughtful Today has in mind, I’d be surprised.

    Bringing it up specifically to change the subject when asked to defend his arguments is lame. Thoughtful Today began bringing it up because of what he considered my dismissiveness towards his favourite presidential candidate. TT said so himself. He seems to think this an effective refutation of my opinions re Bernie Sanders. That’s why I don’t take him seriously.

    If I’m reading you correctly: you’d address the same questions more seriously if only someone else were asking them. That is an ad hominem argument par excellence.

  103. 103.

    Corner Stone

    @Cervantes: Friend, that is certainly true. However, specifically to what you are attempting to pull off here, with regards to TT and AK, I have to forcefully disagree with your false constructs and less than obvious tie-ins to get to where you are in the interrogative stage.
    IOW, guilty feet have got no rhythm.

  105. 105.

    Cervantes

    @The Other Chuck:

    Not sure about the distinction you’re trying to make. What do you think he’s trying to “provoke” if not precisely a discussion?

    Is he trying to provoke a pillow-fight? A riot? A server break-down?

  106. 106.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cervantes:
    You’re reading me wrong. By his own admission, he brings it up not because it has anything to do with the topic at hand, but solely to divert from his refusal to answer challenges to his line of argument.

  109. 109.

    Cervantes

    @Amir Khalid:

    You’re reading me wrong. By his own admission, he brings it up not because it has anything to do with the topic at hand, but solely to divert from his refusal to answer challenges to his line of argument.

    I’ll wait to see that admission.

  111. 111.

    Corner Stone

    @Cervantes: HAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!
    And Ha!
    Ah, the counter-counter battery to a line of argument that is obviously ridiculous on its face.
    Yes, I went full caps. Because this is nonsense and anyone who wants to engage in it is a nonsense garbage time person.

  112. 112.

    Corner Stone

    @Cervantes: What do you mean by “produced”?
    And if it’s not vegetable produce then how can we ascertain what you mean?
    (not saying you know how to certify organic produce)
    Thanks

  114. 114.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Steeplejack: It was sort of meta – “redesign of the upgrade” is pretty much exactly what I meant. It was an attempt to politely refer to the phenomenon that some of the poor design choices of the upgrade seem to be getting, ah, adjusted.

  116. 116.

    Corner Stone

    @Cervantes: Garbage? Do you mean things that have been discarded? Or maybe those that society have left behind?
    (Not necessarily saying you can answer that)
    Maybe we can discuss some other time as I am off now, thanks!

  118. 118.

    Corner Stone

    @Cervantes: Not sure what you think you are ultimately going to get here. Do you somehow want AK to admit to some sort of complicity? It’s an argument that is simply ridiculous on its face.

  122. 122.

    Steeplejack

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Also, thanks for the good wishes in the thread last week about staying with the dogs. RWNJ brother is actually good with them: Polly, the aged whippet, and Woody, a (mostly) black greyhound who came off the track about a year and a half ago. Polly is a lover. Sleeps on the bed with me and just wants the comforter unfurled periodically so she can get under. Woody is still a little skittish at times (around everyone, not just me) but very good-natured. We are getting along fine, although at times they drive me nuts. They keep trying to pull this substitute-teacher thing of “We’re really supposed to get three—no, four—meals a day, but it was written down wrong in the instructions.” Yeah, right. So every time I make a move to the kitchen they come stampeding in after me. “Meal time!”

  125. 125.

    Thoughtful Today

    The “topic at hand” is specifically about a former American slave.

    It directly ties into the, uhm, … debate …, of Clinton’s support for the TPP and it’s expansion of trade with slavery riddled Malaysia.

    I get that Clinton _paused_ her support of the TPP, but her long connections with abusive labor practices, going back to her Board Membership of the anti-Union Walmart corporation, her support for her husband’s right-wing economic ideology that kept MFN status with the dictatorship of China, runs right into her long support of the TPP.

    She made ‘hard choices’ that I know hurt American workers, helped enrich Billionaire heirs, and empowered _nasty_ practices in foreign nations.

    She hasn’t changed, she’s just avoided the … debate.

  128. 128.

    Corner Stone

    @Amir Khalid: Why do you continue to bother? TT and Cervantes have their own reasons for this. They each remind me of M_C in their ridiculous persistence on this line of thought/questioning.

  131. 131.

    Cervantes

    @Corner Stone:

    Not sure what you think you are ultimately going to get here.

    What I think I am going to get here, if your comments are any indication, is a whole lot of nothing. What I think ought to be addressed was already stated above.

    Do you somehow want AK to admit to some sort of complicity? It’s an argument that is simply ridiculous on its face.

    Complicity in what?

    What is this facially ridiculous argument you perceive? Let’s hear it.

  132. 132.

    Cervantes

    @Amir Khalid:

    @Thoughtful Today: slavery riddled Malaysia.

    This is a wild exaggeration.

    Leaving word choice aside for a moment, positing for your sake that “riddled” is not the mot juste, do you have an actual substantive response to the questions that were raised?

    As for what the right word is — and how much slavery, or forced labor, or abuse, there is — I assume you know Charles Santiago. He’s not your local Member of Parliament but he’s close (Klang is his constituency). He says “Malaysia [is] home to modern-day slavery of the worst kind.” Granted, he’s not a member of the ruling party, but is he wrong?

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