Graham says "kill every bastard" is a better ISIS approach then "bomb the shit out of them." https://t.co/chZPFsL3O8 pic.twitter.com/6zcmpV3VJY
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) November 23, 2015
Every so often, we’re reminded just how ugly a bullet we dodged in the 2008 election. Dave Weigel, in the Washington Post:
… This weekend, as candidates barnstormed in the first primary states, the fear of terrorism dominated the questions they got from voters. Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey O. Graham of South Carolina courted those questions, making eight weekend stops on behalf of the latter’s presidential campaign. As they trekked from VFW hall to diner to VFW hall, the senators were really selling a new military commitment in Iraq and Syria — 10,000 U.S. soldiers bolstering an allied (mostly Arab) force and crushing the Islamic State…
“If you’re worried about going to the mall, you won’t worry if I’m president,” Graham said at a town hall in Manchester, N.H. “If you’re worried about your kids getting on the planes going home for Thanksgiving, you won’t worry if I’m president.”
…. Both McCain and Graham argued that colleagues such as Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) are using the no-refugees issue as a smoke screen to distract from their skepticism about fighting the Islamic State on the ground. But keeping refugees out isn’t enough to keep the country safe, according to McCain and Graham — and voters still need to be sold on that.
Town hall by town hall, the two friends and colleagues were trying to move voters from a general sense that the Islamic State needed to be defeated to a certitude that U.S. troops needed to be on the ground. That was not happening yet. Trump could promise to “bomb the s—” out of the Islamic State and get an ovation for what Graham saw as a laughable half-measure…
People like the idea of dropping bombs from the sky to make the boogeymen go away. The idea of sending their kids and grandkids off to get killed or mutilated, not so much. You’d think this bias would be understandable at least to the bombs-from-the-sky guy who ended up in a Vietnamese prison camp, but noooo…
A related Weigel interview:
… Washington Post: At the last event, the former mayor of Manchester said he was having trouble wrapping his head around another war because he couldn’t remember the last time we’d won anything. How big a problem is that as you make the case here?
McCain: I think the best way is to make people realize, as they are beginning to, that we’re either going to fight them over there, or we’re going to fight ’em here. The impact of Paris is not just the loss of life. It’s the ability of these people to commit horrendous acts of terrorism in the capitals of the world. And they’re saying that we’re next. We shouldn’t discount that.
Graham: I’m embracing victory. This is a war that I intend to win. I am intending to create an environment where you don’t have to worry about going to a mall, putting your kid on a plane — [instead] that a terrorist has to worry about getting on the phone or getting in a car. You’ll never convince me we can’t win. We must. We will. The best way to prevent another 9/11 is to destroy the caliphate while we still have time, and to stay in the region until things, over the arc of time, change…
Embracing victory! RESOLVE! Green Lantern power ring!
@HeerJeet *McCain* (who has every reason to loathe Trump) said days ago he would vote for him over HRC because he's a loyal Republican
— Ryan Kearney (@rp_kearney) November 23, 2015
John McCain, whose captivity as a POW Trump mocked, will vote for Trump if he's the GOP nominee. https://t.co/VOvF8v5Yo7
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) November 23, 2015
I'm hearing people argue John McCain will say he is voting for Trump but secretly won't. To me, that's worse than voting for Trump.
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) November 23, 2015
redshirt
I remember most every day. Any day I read the news.
God bless Barack Hussein Obama.
piratedan7
no.. politics isn’t tribal at all, its all about issues and making a measured judgement regarding a candidates pros and cons….
Adam L Silverman
Someone should explain to Senator Graham that the issue isn’t planning for military victory. We’ve got ton of contingency plans, continuously updated for every part of the world. The real issue is planning for what happens after the military victory to secure the peace.
The Republic of Stupity
I second that.
The way Republicans have been freaking out over Paris and trying to find a way blame that ugliness on Obama, you’d think the attacks actually happened in THIS country.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
I knew I should have picked up whipped cream when I was at the grocery store earlier, because OF COURSE my sister in law texted me and asked me to bring it, just like she does every year. Sigh.
amk
repub seniles are far worse than dems.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Unlike your granddaughter, we are actually using taxpayer dollars to pay for Senator Graham to have professional staff/advisors to provide him with these insights.
Thoughtful Today
It’s deeply discordant to read Graham and McCain talking about putting boots on the ground to go after foreign terrorists after having just reading this article, “American Terrorist”, by Pastor Michael Waters, whose key point is that
in the wake of five protestors being shot while peacefully protesting the death of Jamar Clark near the Fourth Precinct police station in Minneapolis, it is once again revealed that the most longstanding and deadly terrorist groups in America have always operated under the banner of white supremacy. White supremacists have long terrorized our nation, especially the black community, and, as such, white supremacists continue to pose the greatest threat to our national security.
NotMax
Looks as if the “you won’t be scared to go to the mall” phrase must have tested well, as Graham is quoted spewing it in two different articles and I expect will parrot it ad infinitum from now on and fit it into a response to any and all questions.
For FSM’s sake, man, you’re (poorly and inexplicably) running for president, not babysitter..
piratedan7
@Adam L Silverman: obviously he should fire them because he’s still an inherently dumb motherfucker.
Thoughtful Today
[blockquote fixed]
“American Terrorist”, by Pastor Michael Waters:
Darkrose
@Thoughtful Today: Speaking of being afraid to go to the mall, I’m getting to the point where I’m nervous about driving anywhere by myself. Is Graham going to do something about the out-of-control cops that make me afraid to drive?
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: This type:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/for-lindsey-graham-years-of-light-duty-as-a-lawmaker-in-the-air-reserve/2015/08/02/c9beb9fc-3545-11e5-adf6-7227f3b7b338_story.html
Sen. Graham moved up in Air Force Reserve ranks despite light duties
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@NotMax: The only thing I’m scared of when I go to the mall is the fucking perfume displays. Well, eleven months of the year. For the next 40 days, I’ll also be scared of the traffic and insipid Christmas music.
David Koch
you betcha
David Koch
there is no arab force (ie sunni). that’s the problem.
The quds force and general soleimani are pretty good but they’re shia and persian and they don’t like that.
Thoughtful Today
Darkrose says:
Of course you know the answer to your rhetorical question, “No“, but it deserved highlighting.
sigaba
@NotMax:
Just in time for Black Friday. (Insert War on Christmas joke here.)
David Koch
I was just at the mall tonight, I couldn’t find a parking space, I had to use a self service check out lane at the store because the regular lanes were 20 deep, and then as I left they were putting up barriers for the people who sleep overnight for the thursday doorbusters.
Certainly the invisible hand of the Dow Jones index isn’t worried.
redshirt
@David Koch: This is one of my nightmares.
David Koch
They sure look worried.
David Koch
no. he’ll vote for Trump cuz McCain is up for reelection in 2016 and is frighten of losing his primary to the teatards he helped create.
Major Major Major Major
Happy Thanksgiving, or, as they say over here, “יוֹם חֲמִישִׁי”!
David Koch
loyal republican
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
Do American taxpayer dollars pay for John McCain and Lindsay Graham to travel the world together? I’ve been wondering about this ever since 2012, when they fetched up here in Malaysia for a few days.
seaboogie
@Amir Khalid: What the hell is up with that bro-mance between the two of them, and how do they not get how publicly weird it is for them to get their macho war machine thing on together, ad nausem? I don’t think it’s sexual – just some weird, deep (probably separate) Freudian shit that I guess you get to indulge in if you’re from the south where it is not only accepted, but expected – that eccentricity is the rule, rather than the exception. But I’ll goll-dam guarantee you that those two have weird little meetings in what is their current equivalent of a blanket fort with a flashlight.
? Martin
@NotMax:
Of course it did. But it reveals the deeper truth which is that conservatives are cowards. I’m not scared to go to the movies or the mall or on a plane. Hardly anyone I know is scared of those things, but GOP voters clearly are. Party of chickenshits.
BGinCHI
Happy Thanksgiving from the Central European Time Zone.
And please, kids, don’t get into any fucking ground wars while I’m over here. 7 more months. You can do it!
mclaren
If by “boogeyman,” you mean infants in their cradles and young girls getting married in wedding parties, then, yeah, I guess.
Of course, blowing up children and innocent women creates a lot more terrorists than it kills. If the goal is to get rid of terrorists, that strategy will not work. If, on the other hand, the goal is to create lots of terrorists in order to assure continued funding for the U.S. military, then it’s a great idea.
Source: “Study Finds U.S. Drone Strikes in Pakistan Miss Militant Targets and “Terrorize” Civilians,” DemocracyNow.org, 26 September 2012.
Americans are sadistic cowards. The motive power in American society is: 1) cause as much suffering as possible (because in our puritanical culture, no pain, no gain! And suffering ennobles!) and, 2) avoid putting your own ass on the line.
Burning brown babies accomplishes both goals, so we’ll have lots more of that.
The South American countries have machismo; Italy had mussolinismmo…America has torturismo.
David Koch
@? Martin: Well, their base (old whites) have always been easy to scare (the russians are coming!, willie horton! gay marriage! ebola!). But you rarely see old people at the movies or the mall.
mclaren
@The Republic of Stupity:
Did you read the AUMF? Didn’t you pay attention to the Bush Doctrine?
The world is now a global battlefield against terorrism, which means that a terrorist attack (according to the Bush Doctrine) anywhere in the world is an attack against America.
America is the world’s globocop, so we must combat terrorism everywhere on the planet. Read the AUMF.
Do you have any idea how insanely broad that directive is?
Any nations, organization, or persons. Anywhere in the world. That committed or aided the 9/11 attacks or harbored such organizations or persons. Anywhere in the world.
And wait! There’s more.
“In order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.”
So any attack against anyone anywhere on the planet can be taken as evidence of a possible future threat against the United States. Therefore the U.S. must chase down anyone anyone who commits any terrorist act at any time against anyone on the planet, in order to prevent now and forever, into the limitless future, any attack ever by anyone anywhere against the United States.
That’s insane.
The president is not god. The U.S. commander in chief is not the Lord of All Time and Space. There is no possible way to prevent any possible future attack at any time anywhere against the United States.
But that is what the AUMF directs the president to do.
This is why the AUMF is the most insane and self-destructive piece of legislation ever passed in America. Because it orders the president to use limitless resources and infinite military power to prevent any attack ever against the U.S. by anyone at any time from now until the end of eternity.
That’s not only impossible, it’s a recipe for eternal war.
The idiots and fools who drafted and voted for the AUMF apparently never read Sun Tzu:
JDM
@? Martin: they gotta go to the mall a lot since they’re in constant need of new underwear.
satby
Party first!
NorthLeft12
Sen. Lindsey “The Terrorists are Coming!” Graham
Can someone please explain what is the approximate size of “the arc of time“?
I am sure it is much longer than a Freidman unit, and it has the feel of something that has relevance in the areas of geology and astronomy, but who knows? Fifty to one hundred years would be my guess.
NorthLeft12
@piratedan7:
While I normally don’t have much good to say about consultants, I think you are asking a lot of them if you expect them to make the esteemed Sen. Graham look thoughtful, intelligent, calm, reasonable, brave, and respected.
My dog man, they’re not miracle workers!!
low-tech cyclist
The only reason I’d be the least bit worried about going to the mall is if some white guy in his 20s or 30s, with an AR-15 and a bag of grudges against the world, decided that my local mall was the place he was going to settle all those grudges, once and for all.
Since Lindsey Graham says that if I’m worried about going to the mall now, I won’t worry when he’s President, I guess that means he’s the President who’s going to take everyone’s guns away. Good for him!
NorthLeft12
Oh and by the way, FUCK YOU McCain!
Patricia Kayden
@? Martin: If I was afraid, it would be because of random mass shootings committed by Americans, not because of brown terrorists/refugees.
leeleeFL
@low-tech cyclist: THIS THIS THIS. Sorry was I shouting! BTW Happy Thanksgiving all!
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
Well, this, and also always refighting the previous war. No wonder there’s no winning.
Josie
@Patricia Kayden: This is so true. I am much more afraid of random crazy white men with a gun or authoritarian out of control policemen than I am of any foreign terrorists. I am becoming leery of going to large public gatherings, but it has nothing to do with Syrians or and other ME persons. In this country we have produced our own homegrown terrorists.
Althea
Butchin’ it up again, I see.
stinger
When McCain chose Palin as his running mate, the big fear was that he’d not last his term(s) and we’d end up with President Palin — gad, my fingers nearly refused to type those words. Anyway, we now know that he did, in fact, live out what would have been his first term. So, thought experiment: What would Palin’s role have been in a McCain-Palin administration?
Mike in NC
@Amir Khalid: Oh yes, U.S. senators live like the pampered aristocratics of Old Europe, with almost unlimited funding if they can justify it. I’m simply thankful those two warmongers will never move to an even more dangerous level of power.
Joey Maloney
@Major Major Major Major: יום חמישי. No one uses the vowel points unless you’re writing for little kids. Which, ok, the BJ commentariat…
Where are you? I’m in Yafo.
Amir Khalid
@satby:
McCain’s been to Malaysia, so he might recognise this phrase: Parti dulu, negara kemudian.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I want someone to ask Senator Graham to walk us through this, on TV: A twenty-something native-born American who’s been ‘radicalized’ (for lack of a better word), without ever going to Syria, and has decided to do something like Newtown or Aurora with a different motivation. He lives in a Long Island suburb, or Dallas, or Phoenix. His friends and family have noticed he’s been acting a little weird and although never religious reading a lot of weird stuff, but they have kids and jobs and fantasy football leagues and they roll their eyes and get on with their own lives. He shaved and got a haircut and went to a couple of gun shows to get his weapons. He’s planning to attack a shopping mall, or a downtown intersection at rush hour… but then, he hears that under the leadership of Lindsey Graham! the United States is going to send 100,000 troops back to Baghdad and west to the borderlands to fight a hot war with Daesh. “Well, fuck it”, says our hypothetical wannabe terrorist, “I’ll just make my way to Damascus and fight over there so we don’t have to here!” Is that how he thinks it works? See also, the suburbs of Paris, Brussels, London, Homburg…. (where I imagine they would find it a lot harder to get the weapons)
Geeno
@Major Major Major Major: You live in Brooklyn?
Germy
@stinger:
But would the extra stress of the presidency make a difference in his longevity?
Stress-free life to sit and heckle the white house from the sidelines.
Blood pressure goes up when you’re in the hot seat, defending everything you do. The far left hates him, the far right hates him. He could have easily keeled over on the job.
Tripod
They always worry about going to the mall. It’s full of the youth, and brown people.
Germy
@Tripod: Some malls ban unaccompanied teenagers, and the browns get followed around by security from store to store.
Not a welcoming environment.
And although citizens see the mall as our “public square” it’s really private property. No protesting allowed, and you can be escorted out at any time.
Lurking Canadian
In a sense, these guys are correct. The only way to reduce the threat of future Islamic terrorism to zero is genocide.
This is why sane people understand that reducing the risk to zero is not a reasonable goal. However, if you are insane, or racist, or cowardly (or all three, like your average Republican politician) so that the value you place upon your own safety is infinite compared to any number of Muslim lives…
Scapegoat
‘Murricans who are trying to demolish their own social and physical infrastructure will surely be enthusiastic about building (and sustaining for decades) the same in Syria.
mtiffany
I think Ms. Graham has read her copy of ‘The Secret’ one too many times…
opiejeanne
@David Koch: That’s because we visit the mall early in the day, and at our theater the markdown for movies is before noon, any day of the week. No more Senior Discount on movies where I live.
mclaren
@NorthLeft12:
Forever.
The AUMF creates a war without end. It’s nuts. We need to shut this insanity down stat.
mclaren
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oh, goody! So Senator Graham is proposing a strict ban on handguns and assault rifles and all semi-automatic weapons, plus extremely stringent background checks to own double-barrel shotguns, and a ban on all pump-action shotguns!
Great. Glad to hear it.
sm*t cl*de
@Germy:
I would not have relished the job of being McCain’s food-taster.
D58826
I wish some one would ask Butters and McNutts wherte these 1200k American troops would be based and supplied. If Iraq had wanted 100k residual Americans troops in 2007 they would have agreed to that in the SOFA. Maybe Saudi Arabia would allow them to stage from their territory. Oh wait that didn’t work out so well in 1991 and the rise of Ben Laden. Turkey maybe? They are more concerned about Kurdish independence than ISIS and they refused transit rights for the 4th ID in 2003. aybe our dear ally Israel would allow us to enter Syria via the Golan. And maybe there are pink unicorns. The US Israel relationship is a one way street. We give and they take. If we ask for something in return we get the one finger peace sign. A couple of years ago Bibi announced a new settlement block just as VP Bidfen was getting off the plane for a visit. The message was obvious. So that leaves going in to Syria over the beach. It would take 100k troops just to secure the base camps and supply routes to eastern Syria. And every mile of that supply line would be over territory controlled by Assad or one rebel group or another, none of which have any love for the US. For those with short memories it took 5 years to secure the 24 mile road between the Green Zone and the Baghdad airport.
Obama’;s approach might not be very good but all the rest are infinitely worse. But as long as the critics can beat their gums on Faux news and write angry editorials in the WSJ but never have to provide the details of their plan we will continue with this pointless debate
mclaren
@D58826:
I think you meant “120K American troops.” But actually, 1.2 million American troops is more realistic. To deploy that many troops, we would need another draft.
Yet another in a long list of reasons why American military intervention in the middle east is counterproductive and foolish.
mclaren
Define “victory.” Define “winning.”
If “victory” means no terrorist attacks ever again anywhere until the end of time, victory is impossible.
If “winning” means no bombings or shooting anywhere ever again, it’s a delusion.
I embrace reality. Out here in the real world, bad things happen elsewhere in the world, and America (not being omnipotent) can’t fix or stop all of them.
The U.S. government needs a 12-step program for foreign policy.