In the aftermath of yesterday’s shooting at the Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs we still don’t know much. While speculation, good, bad, moronic, and/or otherwise, about the shooter and his motives have abounded, all we really know is his name and where he is from. The shooter, identified as Robert Lewis Dear, is from North Carolina. Where he has two properties. One of which is an off the grid shack near Black Mountain. No real word on his other property in NC. Police are also searching a property about an hour away from Colorado Springs that has been identified as Dear’s local/Colorado address.
Until the police release further information all we can do is wait, and for those so inclined, speculate as to motive. While the Colorado Springs Police Department spokeswoman indicated that they “did not know his ‘mentality, or his ideas or ideology'”, the Colorado Springs mayor made the following remarks: “people could make ‘inferences from where it took place'”.
Corner Stone
“But I know I love you…”
Corner Stone
Since we’re speculating, I am going to go with his being radicalized by his local cleric.
JPL
Except for the police officer, we don’t know who else died.
Davis X. Machina
Backwoods NC is where Eric Rudolph hid out for years, isn’t it?
Corner Stone
Also, too, does anyone else find it really out of bounds that Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal has repurposed the song “Milkshake” by Kellis to sell their product?
Adam L Silverman
@Davis X. Machina: Yes. He was raised there too. And Rudolph and his family attended a Christian Identity church. Whether this has any actual relevance with what happened yesterday, I have no idea.
I’ve edited this for clarity. Changing “his to “Rudolph and his”. I have no idea what, if any, religion Dear belongs to, nor what house of worship he attends/attended. Sorry for any confusion.
Corner Stone
@JPL:
And contra what some have said on this matter, right wing fundies do not give a shit about the lives of police officers. In their war on women, LEO is just a side note that sometimes, semi-unfortunately, gets in the way.
NotMax
Colorado Springs:
Both a fundamentalist/evangelical hub and a military hub. The two are decidedly not mutually exclusive there.
JPL
We do know that the terrorist was a white male so he has to have mental illness. Only white males who have a mental illness commit an act of violence.
The Ancient Randonneur
Has Trump reported seeing thousands of Christians celebrating the terrorist attack in Colorado Spring yet?
c u n d gulag
How horribly appropriate for a day named “Black Friday:”
Three unplanned deaths at a Planned Parenthood.
It’s too early to know if this attack and the resulting deaths is the work of yet another “Christian” “Pro Life” zealot or not, since he was only recently captured alive.
But this took place in Colorado Springs, one of the hot spots for uber-“Christian” lunacy, so my guess would be yes.
And based on that guess, I’d like to say the following:
Part of me is glad he was taken alive, to study what caused this terrorist – yes, TERRORST! – to do something this heinous. And see if there’s any way possible to stop future domestic “Christian” terrorists.
Another isn’t, because this terrorist will now become yet another martyr for the misogynistic cause of fundamentalist “Christian”terrorism.
Let me ask our fundamentalist “Christians:”
Where in the New Testament do you see that these acts of domestic terrorism would be condoned by your “Prince of Peace?”
And how do you distinguish the actions of your fundamentalist “Christian” terrorists, from the Muslim fundamentalists that you loath?
All I see as an Agnostic, are the same ends and means, only for different Prophets and religious texts.
p.a.
@JPL: Fucking gun humpers become all socialisty about psychological medical screening when it comes to keeping access to guns.
Derelict
One thing is certain: No matter what his motives, the only possible response we as a society can have to this is to remove all restrictions on gun ownership. Because, clearly, if heavily armed police wearing body armor and driving military vehicles cannot deal with a shooter, then it’s up to untrained civilians to do the job.
GoBlue72
@Corner Stone: Yes.
Germy
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: Maybe it’s out of bounds that something called Cinnamon Toast Crunch is being marketed as a substance humans should eat for breakfast.
Cluttered Mind
If his name were Arabic then I imagine it’d be pretty easy to “make inferences” since there would be wall to wall talking heads about TERRORISM!!!!! all over the news. But he’s a white man, so we have to wait and see and be certain not to judge him prematurely or make wild guesses or accusations about who he was or what he believed, right?
JPL
@p.a.: They don’t become mentally ill until after the buy the gun.
duh
Origuy
Jezebel has some more information. Although some of it comes from Buzzfeed, so take it with a grain of salt.
No, of course he wasn’t a right-winger:
redshirt
I’m sure he was not just an Obama voter but he donated heavily in 2008. Book it, libs.
Origuy
Buzzfeed mentioned that his Colorado voter record lists him as female. From that, RWNJs have concluded that he “self-identifies as female”. Data entry errors never happen in their world, I guess.
p.a.
@JPL: comment was about their hypocrisy, not efficacy of screening.
Ultraviolet Thunder
The predictable posts have begun on Facebook in traditional form;
“SO NOW YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS, HUH? HUH?!?!”
John Revolta
@Cluttered Mind: If his name were Arabic and he shot up a Planned Parenthood clinic, the right wing would be all “Well, I guess there’s some good in every religion……..”
Corner Stone
@c u n d gulag:
I’m sure you meant this a different way, but they never have any planned deaths at a PP.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: La la la la la. Boys are waiting.
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman:
Then you’re not as bright as I thought you were.
I’m so sick of this “we don’t know what his motive was” bullshit. We know.
TaMara (BHF)
I’m still waiting for all the I Support Planned Parenthood, We Are All Planned Parenthood and Parenthood Strong memes on my book of faces. And of course the ability to turn my profile picture pink.
When do you think that’ll all start? It is pretty cold out today…but probably not cold enough for hell to have frozen over.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@John Revolta: if he was Arabic and shot anything he’s be horizontal, refrigerated and toe tagged.
Calouste
@JPL:
Gun ownership is a mental illness.
schrodinger's cat
Has any reporter asked Fiorina for her reaction?
skerry
@TaMara (BHF): Go to the Planned Parenthood Action page and you can see how to turn your profile pink.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: Eric Robert Rudolph’s family attended a Christian Identity church when he was a child. That is relevant and germane to understanding Rudolph’s behavior. Since we have little to no information on Dear, including which, if any, religion he belonged to and house of worship he attends/attended, it means what was relevant for Rudolph isn’t necessarily relevant to Dear.
Chris
@NotMax:
No, unfortunately they’re not, which should terrify anyone.
Putting aside the implications of a job that needs to be secular public service being taken over by religious tribalists, I really do not want people handling our nuclear weapons to be one sermon away from deciding that the End Times Have Come.
Corner Stone
Say what, now?
“White Americans Are Biggest Terror Threat in U.S.: Study”
“The New America Foundation found that twice as many people have died in attacks by right-wing groups in America than by Muslim extremists since 9/11.”
The Ancient Randonneur
One of the myriad benefits of being a white male is that I don’t have to answer questions about why “my people/gender” do the things they do. It leaves me more time to mansplain/whitesplain other stuff.
rikyrah
UH HUH
UH HUH
GOP Candidates Take Different View of Heroin Crisis
November 27, 2015
excerpt:
Several GOP presidential contenders have advocated treating the nation’s growing heroin epidemic as a health crisis, not a criminal one. But most stop short of advocating the same approach to other drug laws, notably those involving marijuana and crack cocaine, which disproportionately affect African Americans.
Such views highlight the resonance and reach of the opiate epidemic — but also a persistent racial and geographic divide in American politics. The heroin epidemic has overwhelmingly hit whites. It has also skyrocketed to the top of voters’ lists of political priorities in the same bands of America — rural states, the suburbs and notably the early voting state of New Hampshire — that track directly with where Republicans must perform well to win back the White House next year
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gop-contenders-are-talking-about-drug-abuse-but-racial-and-partisan-rifts-persist/2015/11/27/af5dfa14-87c0-11e5-9a07-453018f9a0ec_story.html
MattF
@Mike J: Well, combining ‘guns’, ‘fetuses’ and ‘Jesus’ produces a variety of possiblities.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Mike J: Eric Rudolph’s religious upbringing probably doesn’t have much to do with the PP shooter.
Marc
On a lighter note, Cards Against Humanity had a Black Friday sale where you could give them $5 and get nothing. They got over 71k. Here is how it was used:
http://cardsagainsthumanity.com/blackfriday/
Germy
Is this man nervous?
JPL
@Calouste: True!
Corner Stone
@The Ancient Randonneur:
It’s a real balancing act, I have to admit. Do I tell that poor woman now how she should be raising her kids? Or wait until Sunday to commiserate with Camille and Jean Paul, et al, how we need to do more to help those people?
It’s a real got dam dilemma, I am here to testify.
Cermet
@Corner Stone: but police – many being complete AO’s, support the very party that targets them – both via the NRA and the tea bag party gun nuts that belong to that party. Cops aren’t just stupid, they are insanely stupid – many. Certainly not the few smart ones who read this blog …
Anya
Ugh! The police officer’s co-pastor said to CNN that the police officer defended Planned Parenthood eventhough he dissagreed with the “abortion industry”! WTF! PP is a healthcare provider. Our media’s is complicit in dehumanizing PP staff. I am so dissapointed in the coverage so far.
? Martin
@Germy: Oh, yes. Let me go spit on their door a few more times.
I’m going to predict they have a police officer/guard there this weekend.
Cermet
@c u n d gulag: Answer me where in the bible does it condemn abortion? In fact, the exact opposite – it – the so-called word of dog … (or was that god) – supports the kill of all fetus’ in woman AND doesn’t even say the fetus has a soul until after the first trimester. So, what are these asswipe preachers saying?
scav
@Anya: The “Faith Industry” has a high percentage of scams associated with it, not to mention a tendency to providing systematic cover for even more egregious personal illegal behaviors.
Grung_e_Gene
Look white men are never terrorists. It’s just one of those many privileges. Even if his motivation become clear, right-wingers will delay and obfuscate until enough conservatives hooked into the incestuous rw Internet believe he was an Obama Supporting Leftist.
Bobby Thomson
@Cluttered Mind: yes. Which is bullshit. Fuck the pearl clutchers. The guy’s a right wing Christofascist nut job.
Prescott Cactus
If I had lady parts, I’d get knocked up just so I could have an abortion to piss these people off.
The Thin Black Duke
@Bobby Thomson: Damned right. As Maya Angelou said, “When a person shows you who they are, believe them.”
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman:
He walked into a Planned Parenthood office and shot eleven people. He did not go to a Trump Rally, he did not go the NRA museum.
We know why he did what he did. Denying it is lying.
rikyrah
Just finished watching Field of Dreams…again…crying my eyes out.
SiubhanDuinne
@Anya:
I disagree, of course, with the term “abortion industry,” although it’s unclear whether it was used by the officer, his pastor, or the CNN reporter.
But I can’t take issue with the fact that the police officer defended PP even though he doesn’t/didn’t support their goals. This is what the police and other public servants are supposed to do, for pete’s sake! (I’m talking to you, Kim Davis.) This is what their profession demands.
SiubhanDuinne
@rikyrah:
I luv luv luv Field of Dreams!
Villago Delenda Est
Yes, they could. The Forced Birthers have been praising him as a hero.
raven
@Anya: If it bothers you so much write them a note
[email protected]
Villago Delenda Est
@Germy: He should be nervous. He’s a terrorist enabler and propagandist. He’s as guilty as Julius Streicher was.
Germy
@Anya:
Not a peep out of Carly Fiorina.
Iowa Old Lady
@Gin & Tonic: Irish people reacting to American cereals:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=irish+people+react+to+american+cereal+youtube&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=FA3DE358A442B8E72C48FA3DE358A442B8E72C48
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Mike J:
There is a high probability that we know, yes. The mayor of Colorado Springs has hinted at that, yes.
It is unlikely that Eric Rudolph and the Church of Israel have anything to do with Richard Dear. That’s what I objected to: you appeared to misunderstand Adam’s post and think that he was talking about Dear when he described Rudolph. That’s all.
Dear claimed at various points to be an art dealer. He moved to an arts-and-crafts area of NC. That it’s within 100 miles of Rudolph’s stomping grounds of Macon County isn’t exactly evidence of a connection.
Germy
Sometimes the reply button turns blue and becomes part of the link.
JPL
From NBC.com
Germy
misterpuff
@Corner Stone: Get offa my lawn, Corner Stone, ya kid you.
I feel your “pop culture love” pain.
You get used to it.
JPL
@Germy: Yes it does.
NotMax
@Germy
Related.
Man oh man, that is fugly. Anyone else getting that bar across the top of the page?
WereBear
I’d like to see every woman’s organization in America rise up and denounce the assholes who lie and enable this kind of violence, and if they can’t get on TV they should take to social media and just beat beat beat the truth into every head.
It’s a crime they haven’t already. But now it is imperative.
Obsessive focus works. We should try it.
D58826
I agree that the best approach at this point is not to jump to conclusions and wait for the investigation to play out. On the other hand a lightly held working hypothesis that he was attacking PP for some ideology reason does not seem unreasonable at this point. After all I seriously doubt that he traveled 2000 miles from the backwoods of North Carolina to attacked this building because he didn’t like the color scheme in the men’s room.
FlyingToaster
@Iowa Old Lady: The Irish share my daughter’s opinion. Apple Jacks she loves. Occasionally she’ll take Fruit Loops. Otherwise, she wants the various Organic Os from either Trader Joes or Wegmans. Honey nut, chocolate, strawberry, yadda yadda yadda.
PopTarts taste like the house cupcakes from with the “best creme” topping. I’m not sure that food is supposed to taste like recycled coke bottles plus sugar syrup.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@D58826:
He didn’t have to travel to Colorado to find a Planned Parenthood. We don’t know why he was in Colorado. Everyone is obsessing over his cabin in the NC mountains when he was recently living in Hartsel, Colorado.
D58826
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: True/ what I do find a bit odd is that 24 hours into this and we seem to know nothing about the other two victims. No gender, age, why they were there, nothing. Even the families have gone quiet. Usually get a statement to respect their privacy, which of course is understandable. But in this case nothing. I’m not suggesting some deep dark black helicopter conspiracy but just that it is odd.
Wag
The Denver Post has an article about the shooter. And, no surprise, he sounds like a total RWNJ survivalist.
“Planned Parenthood shooter led reclusive existence in mountain enclave”
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29176954/planned-parenthood-shooter-led-reclusive-existence-mountain-enclave
NotMax
@D58826
Not all that odd for a major holiday weekend. Lots of the usual places which would be doing investigation/confirmation/reporting are likely short-staffed.
D58826
@NotMax: I guess. But the police/emergence management type of agencies usually release the demographics if not the names. I guess in this error of TMI it’s odd when there is ‘to little’
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@NotMax: Also, I noticed that some of the TV reports were blurring the faces of people rescued from the PP facility. There seems to be a recognition that kooks out there too often go after people in any way associated with Planned Parenthood. I don’t know that that’s another reason for the delay, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
D58826
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Hadn’t thought about that angle but given the overall environment and the fact that Colorado Springs is a hotbed of fundamentalist activity it would make sense.
NotMax
@D58826
Also too, next of kin conceivably could have traveled for the holiday.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: Would you, for the love of some deity, somewhere, anyone really, use actual freaking names. I’m talking about Eric Rudolph, I’m presuming you’re talking about the Dear guy from yesterday, but honestly I can’t tell anymore.
I’m going to try to clear this up one last time: I am not, NOT, again NOT!, saying/asserting/positing/suggesting that Dear did NOT shoot up Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs. I am NOT trying to excuse it or even to claim that it isn’t likely a case of domestic terrorism, whether or not he’s charged that way. I am saying that just because both he and Rudolph both lived at one time in NC that you can’t simply assume there is a connection between the two. That’s it.
sharl
@Adam L Silverman: I think most of us understand you just fine. It’s just that so many of us are really angry, frustrated and just plain tired of this shit, and for some it can be hard to discuss awful incidents like this in – I dunno – a clinical or rational manner when all riled up.
Adam L Silverman
@sharl: I got it, that’s why I didn’t respond with profanities and “am I typing slow enough for you to follow me now?” I get being angry and frustrated. I’ve got no problem with it and no business telling people how to feel. But it isn’t necessary to take it out on me by being purposefully obtuse.
I’m not mad at MikeJ, just want to see if I can get him tracking with what I’m actually saying.
Villago Delenda Est
The NC connection is interesting, but really has little to do with what we know right now. It’s an effective red herring to avoid addressing the fact that Colo Springs is a hotbed of fundamentalist wackaloonery, and it makes perfect sense that some sort of terrorist attack on a PP would take place there, given that you’ve got all these forced birth assholes in the general vicinity.
Botsplainer
Eric Rudolph connection?
boatboy_srq
Interesting that he felt compelled to pursue PP, not in NC or any adjacent state, but Colorado. So much for the Reichwing’s vaunted federalism: if CO wants PP, it’s not up to some wingnut from NC to correct that (not that it’s up to any wingnut anywhere to do anything about it, but especially fugly that the sort of wingnuts who clamor for “home rule” for themselves can’t abide the same practiced by other people).
Villago Delenda Est
@Botsplainer: People are speculating on that, because Rudolf hung out in that area and apparently had support from the residents. Which makes them all accessories after the fact, aiding and abetting a known terror suspect. If Rudolf had done something like bomb the NYSE, you can bet the vermin of the deserting coward malasstration would have hunted high and low for him. Attacking the symbols of capitalism is terrorism. Attacking Planned Parenthood is the action of a hero.
Villago Delenda Est
@boatboy_srq: He struck in Colorado because he has been living in Colorado, and Colorado Springs is a hotbed of American Taliban activity.
mark k
I used to go to camp at Rockmont in Black Mountain, N.C. in the 68-70s. One of the most beautiful areas in the country. Billy Millionaire Graham lives next door in Montreat in his gigantic mansion. Some of the nicest people in the world and plenty of insane, racist hillbillies around there, too.
I just think he is crazy and was living a worthless life. Then he found that the Republicans told him he could be a hero by killing the fetus killers and there you go. I’ve lived in Pensacola since ’84 and have seen this madness up close for too long. Nobody ever did anything about it in this good ol boy network. A psychopath named Jim Burt (who it turns out, abandonded his first family, to quote his son “He aborted us”) who was finally brought down by HIS actions after fondling a pregnant 16 y/o and the newspaper here finally did there job and looked into this evil scum.
Whats sick is this is established law: abortion is legal. There is no such thing as “preborn”. The anti-choice people are evil and need to be shutdown once and for all. I’m not optimistic. People in the south still maintain slavery wasn’t that bad and the Civil War was about the price of cotton.
I’ve finally decided we need to start arresting people like they do in France for denying the holocaust. except for saying abortion is murder. That, as we see here to a crazy person, is yelling fire in a theatre. Also, for any of you fascists out there, abortion was illegal for Nazis so throw that lame-o “Just like Hitler!” bullshit in the toilet with your brainwashed, hateful soul.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Villago Delenda Est: Western NC is a big place. Dear’s cabin at Black Mountain and his house at Swannanoa are almost 100 miles from Rudolph’s stomping grounds in Macon County. (By road, at least. I haven’t done an “as the crow flies” distance.) Dear would have been a lot closer to Billy Graham’s training center in Asheville.
@boatboy_srq: We have no information on when or why Dear moved to Colorado, but he does have a house there. Before he was in NC, he was in SC for many years.
mark k
Just saw where the shooter told a cop “No more baby parts”
Lay this squarely at the feet of the despicable, craven Republicans.
Adam L Silverman
@Botsplainer: @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: @Villago Delenda Est: He moved about 65 miles east of Colorado Springs in 2014. Paid 6K for some property in the middle of nowhere and was living there in a beat up old trailer he moved onsite.
pseudonymous in nc
A reporter from the Asheville paper went up to Dear’s properties and talked to people who knew him from there, and they all said “creepy dude”.
I’m sure people will clarify how it’s relatively easy to buy property in utter bumfuck and put a trailer and camper on it — if you have the dollars at hand, I suppose — but that’s a pretty weird way to live.
Adam L Silverman
@pseudonymous in nc: happens in a lot of places. When we had out place in New Mexico you could drive around and see double wides on a lot of properties. People were land rich, so to speak as they had land, but didn’t plow a lot of money into their living arrangements on the land.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks. I’d poked around a bit, but RL keeps intervening.
sharl
@pseudonymous in nc: Unless a guy like that hooked up with a group that was under surveillance – and he does not sound like a join-a-group kind of guy – how in the hell would you ever see the likes of him coming in advance, before he arrives on site one day with gun(s) blazing?
I’m guessing (pure speculation) that he had a battery-powered radio in whatever dump he was occupying at any given moment, from which he could pick up wingnut radio. [That shit can be heard everywhere, if rural (and non-rural!) Ohio is any indication.] So he’d be loaded for bear with anti-PP and anti-Obama propaganda, along with plenty of other issues to give him continuous ragegasms.
The Fool
Carly Fiorina has a lot of blood on her hands.