Calls from today: ☑️Challenge without challenge flag ☑️QB and umpire sacked ☑️Bortles passes beyond LOS. Twice https://t.co/jk0ca1c3if
— Football Zebras (@footballzebras) November 30, 2015
There are 122 NFL officials for this season. 23 officials have less than two complete seasons of NFL experience. They all have significant college experience, but a sixth of officials are raw.
Speaking as a college official who will never work the highest levels of the professional game, there is a massive jump in processing speed needed as an official jumps up a level of competition. I know when I made the jump from high amateur to semi-pro and scholarship college ball, the game was significantly faster for the first few dozen games. I found myself thinking instead of riding the flow of the game. I was reacting to problems instead of anticipating situations. I found myself slow on split second decisions because I was sorting out whether I should be applying USSF, NFHS or NCAA interpretations. Initially I was applying USSF interpretations as my default because that is where I had several thousand games worth of experience. That led to some bad errors that my crew usually bailed me out on.
If the NFL is attempting to hold their worst officials accountable by dropping them, the NFL needs to replace those officials. The replacement pool are officials working college. There is a transition period for the individual official to come up to NFL game speed and build NFL default assumptions. Secondly, NFL crews are tight knit crews where there needs to be a trust between the officials to each do their own job. Building crew solidarity and trust takes time as well.
If the NFL is churning a sixth of their ref crews every two years, there will be lots of mistakes even if these officials are the best football officials in the country.
? Martin
These guys aren’t as terrible as the refs in the NE game last week, but they deserve credit for trying to be as terrible.
JPL
@? Martin: They are really close…
Cacti
Saw that Gronkowski was carted from the game in the 4th.
What’s the story w/ that?
JPL
Since I’m a good sport, congrats to Denver.
Richard Mayhew
Refs did not decide the Patriots-Broncos game. They made a few decisions they’ll probably want back on film review, but they were not decisive.
JPL
I lied by the way…
redshirt
The refs literally gave this game to Denver.
Brutal.
Richard Mayhew
@Cacti: best case is an MCL injury which would be 4-6 weeks or the AFC divisional round when Edelman gets back.
The Patriots just ran out of healthy bodies
chromeagnomen
@Richard Mayhew: how about the bogus OPI on gronk on the drive that might have put the game out of reach in the 4th? or the bogus holding on what would have been a sack on the denver drive inside the patriot 10?
Richard Mayhew
@redshirt: Disagreed, the Gronk OPI was a light call and the Chung holding was iffy but consistent with the Gronk OPI. They called the arm extension consistently. And consistency is the biggest thing as they were not calling shoulder prying nor bent elbow levers either way.
They got the 4th time out right. The Patriots had some bad fumble luck and they ran out of depth.
Kurt Montandon
I know you East Coasters don’t like to admit that anything football related happens west of the Rockies, but there can’t possibly have been a worse call than “roughing the passer” in Cardinals-Niners. Or taking five minutes to figure out what down it is.
Richard Mayhew
@chromeagnomen: I am thinking as a referee right now. At every major tournament’s prep clinic, we are told “Consistency is key, please be consistently good, but if you can’t be consistently bad as teams can adjust to that. They can’t handle a ref who is all over the place”
The ref’s were not all over the place. I thought they were calling arm extensions into the body core too easily, but they made that call consistently. Everything else they were letting go on PI. There is a platonic form of officiating and rule enforcement and then there is a pragmantic form of what is actually drawing a whistle/flag on any given night. By the 4th quarter, teams should know where the pragmatic foul line is and they can adapt to that even if it is not an ideal line.
Cacti
Didn’t see the game, so can’t comment on the caliber of officiating. Historically though, NE has always had a tough time winning in Denver, even in the Brady/Belichick era.
Prior to tonight, TB/BB were 2-4 at Mile High.
David Koch
So who was Payton rooting for?
Can’t believe he was rooting for Brock Osweiler.
baring injury, we’ve seen the last of Manning.
Cacti
So the Carolina Panthers are the last undefeated team in the league.
Didn’t see that one coming.
2liberal
@Richard Mayhew:
in the 4th quarter the refs took away a Patriots 51 yard completion , a Patriots first down, and a 2nd down sack of osweiler all to the Bronco’s great advantage. They flagged the broncos once which cost them next to nothing.
The patriots ran out of players , got winded in that thin polluted air , and gave it a good run. The refs sure didn’t give them any breaks on two close calls (i have no idea on the OL holding call).
Richard Mayhew
@redshirt: Patriots had chances to make plays (Chung dropped interception on D. Thomas bobble) and they could not close the deal at the end of the 4th Q before the first go ahead touchdown.
Ruckus
@Richard Mayhew:
You made a point in the original post about having to decide which rule book you were working under when switching up to a different level. That happens at all levels, I once had to fire someone who could not properly decide which rule book he should be using. And worse he argued with me when I read him the correct decision from the pro book but he kept trying to use an amateur book. His decisions almost ruined the consistency that we had worked a long time to foster and created discontent among both the officials and the participants.
Punchy
@Kurt Montandon: That was BRUTAL. The Niner sacks the QB straight up, but Palmer lifts his head up at last minute and DBs helmet hits his chin. RtP, they call. The DB did abs nothing wrong. Complete and ridiculous BS….
Richard Mayhew
@2liberal: The hold on the 51 yard completion was an obvious and play decisive hold that everyone in the stadium could see (that is the effective criteria for what the NFL calls as the hold — decisive and obvious)
With a different crew of refs, the game may have swung slightly in the Pats favor on the two PI calls, but that is normal variance of how that foul is called. The rest of your concluding paragraph is the decisive component — they Patriots were gassed with no healthy depth after injuries started .
Richard Mayhew
@Ruckus: The mental transition is probably the hardest as everyone in soccer who is moving along is in good enough shape to jump I’m in adequate shape for soccer but if you gave me a few months to train for the FIFA assistant referee fitness test, I could pass with room to spare. Most of the guys who are in really good shape could pass that test if they had to take it tomorrow afternoon. The really in shape ones can do it as they are doing a beer mile. The interval runs are what kill me http://www.footballwest.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/referee_documents_and_forms/FIFAFitnessTest_E.pdf
The rule differences are minor but they are JUST enough to trip someone up. The bigger issue is the pragmatic interpretation of what exactly constitutes a foul as a high school foul is very different than a D-3 women’s foul which is very different than a D-1 men’s foul which is slightly different than a USL-Pro foul which is slightly different than an MLS foul which is very different than a CONCACAF foul which is very different than an EPL foul.
An EPL foul that is a simple direct free kick can be a justifiable red card in high school. And a FIFA/World Cup/EPL red card ( contact above the shoulders without significant force) is just not part of the American soccer culture, as if there is contact above the shoulders it is only coming with force so it is something American referees don’t deal with until they do D-1 and D-2 college men’s soccer games with large number of international players.
For me, I default my assumptions to NCAA rules and adjust from there as that is the highest level I work and where I make my money.
Mike G
American management ideology in so many cases is predisposed to devalue quality of work and workforce experience levels when it costs money in the short term, or even when it doesn’t but it gets in the way of treating the workforce like interchangeable cogs. Being concerned about quality and supporting real team building (not just rah-rah BS) complicates the disempowerment they find essential to intimidating and dominating the workforce.
Marduk
@2liberal: don’t forget the egregious uncalled PI on the first play of overtime. Consistent ticky-tack PIs on the pats, consistent let ’em play muggings for the horsies.
But every team gets their turn getting jobbed by the refs so can’t really complain too much. Hopefully this was the last screw job the pats will get this season.
Ruckus
@Richard Mayhew:
Well this was a different sport but def pro level. Was trying to acknowledge your point that consistency and rules interpretation are both very important to being correct. There is and should be less room for error the higher one goes in any sport.
patrick II
It may be a disadvantage for Gronk to be quite so big and strong as defensive backs seem to hit him low instead of taking him on high as usually happens to the receiver on pass receptions.
Richard Mayhew
@Ruckus: I was agreeing with you. The mental transition going up the ladder is the hardest part as what used to be a foul is now run of play and if you call that contact, everyone looks at you funny as you just lost credibility for being competent.
The three consistencies are a bitch (in-game, between game for the same referee, between games among different referees). Most decent officials are good at monitoring the first consistency. It is the other two that drive league administrators and referee assessors/trainers nuts.
RobertDSC (Quad Intel Mac)
I’m disappointed my Pats didn’t win tonight in Denver. Now it’s back home against Philly. Gotta go to work this week, get back on the winning track.
Richard Mayhew
@patrick II: The DB was making a reasonably fair challenge. If Gronk’s feet were on the ground, the hit would have been on the thigh. Gronk was airborne at the time of contact which is probably a good thing regarding the severity of injury as there would have been less twisting forces ripping things apart.
James E Powell
@Richard Mayhew:
Seriously? The two ticky tack calls – the OPI on Gronk & the holding on Chung – were both calls that are almost never made. The non-call of the head shot on Brady? Please.Those are game-changing, outcome determining calls/non-calls.
Richard Mayhew
@Mike G: And part of the solidarity is in-crew error correction, mentoring and coaching combined with trusted assessments and feedback. At the levels I work, football is the only major sport where the officials are in the same crew 90% of the time. It changes how they see the game.
Only at the MLS is there strong podding but not fixed crews. Lower levels there is soft podding and clusters that come together for certain types of games. My highest and best use is as an assistant referee with a center and the other assistant referee people I’ve done 300+ games with over the past 15 years. Throw us in on a near guarantee brawl game, and we’ll get out with both teams offering us beers at the end. I know that Patrick wants me to call THAT as a foul but THIS is OK and he needs to know that #26 is being a douchenozzle deserving an ass chewing. The communication is crisper, clearer and far more information dense which allows for more seamless decision making. And that crispness only happens with repetition with a crew.
Throw me in that same game with two other well credentialed but new to me and new to each other referees, and we’re lucky if we get out without anyone pressing charges.
Keith P.
Yeah, but the refs are OK compared to NBA refs. How hard is it to call traveling? It’s one of the first things you learn in basketball.
Ruckus
@Richard Mayhew:
Understand about you agreeing. We both are, I was just giving a bit more info on a completely different sport that consistency and correctness is always important. In many ways my sport was easier to officiate at because we made fewer immediate calls that could change the outcome of the event. But calls that did have to be made could reverberate for months and even very occasionally, years.
Eric U.
I thought it was pretty funny that the touchdown that put Denver ahead featured one of the offensive lineman with a fist full of one of the Pats face masks. I don’t understand holding at all, you can take a guy and throw him on the ground, and that’s not holding. But if you are effectively blocking him, that is holding. It seems like a rule that is made for corrupt refs. And I think a system with a lot of turnover is going to feature quite a bit of corruption. Not sure if that’s what I was seeing tonight, but it’s really hard not to think about points shaving when I see things like that.
@Keith P.: travelling is intentionally called very leniently in the NBA so they can have better highlight reels. But the NBA has had ref corruption scandals, and I refuse to watch any more because their bias towards “protecting stars” looks far too much like corruption to me.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Eric U.:
A trend that started after MLB miniaturized the old knees-to-nipples strike zone. But, hey, batting averages went up, as did home runs.
Eric U.
@efgoldman: yeah but take that 6th step and you’ll be called. Like I said, I don’t watch any more, but when I have they allow many steps. I think refs are reasonably consistent about allowing 4 steps, but 5 is questionable.
Roger Moore
@Eric U.:
I think the refs are also willing to let players get away with traveling when they have a clear path to the basket and want to show off with a flashy dunk.
Betty Cracker
The reports on the late sports round-up shows say Gronkowski’s injury isn’t serious. Hope they’re right. Not a Patriots fan at all, but he’s a loveable lug.
Kendall
Well if you watched highlights of the Bills game you learned that taking 5 steps with the ball does not equate to a catch.
Patrick ii
@Richard Mayhew:
I didn’t say it should be a foul, just that, because of his size and strength dB’s tend to take on Gronk low, and because of that he has more chance of a leg injury. Less chance for concussion I suppose.
Edmund Dantes
@Richard Mayhew: no they didn’t. It was same motion. One was OPI and one was DPI. Plus they ignored the illegal hands to the face as the Denver player pushed off on Chung with a full arm extension. Yet Chung gets a DPI.
Edmund Dantes
Also by rule, the defender initiated the contact on Gronk past 5 yards. So it should be illegal contact before he ever gets called for OPI
Uncle Cosmo
For all the complaining this morning about this or that questionable call, it would be hard to come up with any more egregious example of officiating incompetence than (what should have been) the last play of the Jags-Ravens game two Sundays back, which literally reversed the outcome of the game.
As a Ravens fan I’m not going to bitch too hard about the outcome, which merely put the capstone on a thoroughly snakebit season (but wait! there’s more!) & might move them up a notch or two in the 2016 draft. But as much as all yinz might hate on Poe’s Crows (NB as FDR so trenchantly put it, we welcome your hatred), you gotta admit that this sort of shit just. Ain’t. Right. And hopefully brings the day closer when booth officials are empowered to call infractions in real time to pull the field zeebs’ chestnuts out of the fire as they mill about in mass confusion.
DLG
@Eric U.: Many (by no means all) of the allegedly missed NBA traveling calls are due to application of plain vanilla (e.g. US high school) interpretive standards rather than NBA interpretive standards. Specifically, NBA definition of the “gather,” that is, the moment the offensive player picks up the ball and the step count begins, is later/more generous. Combine this with the NBA’s more generous interpretation of Jump-stop style two-footed landings on the final step and you get plays that would be four-step travels under H.S. rules but are legitimately non-travels under NBA interpretation. (Can’t see how one could get to “five” or more H.S. steps even under NBA rules though.)
This is another example of Richard’s point about the importance of interpretive standards at different levels of competition.
Paul in KY
If they are churning them, it is probably to keep their salaries down a bit.
Paul in KY
@patrick II: He has to be aware of that & jump em or try to get low enough to blunt it or try & stiff arm them into the turf.
Paul in KY
@Keith P.: I think they are told to err on side of talent when it comes to traveling.
Edit: See Eric U. beat me to it.
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: I hate the Cheatriots, but I do like the cut of his jib.