Ok, concern trolls, we now know that Robert Deer, who shot up and attempted to blow up and PP and stated “no more body parts” upon arrest wasn’t a transgendered leftist, and believed the following:
But in court documents and interviews with people who knew Mr. Dear well, a picture emerges of an angry and occasionally violent man who seemed deeply disturbed and deeply contradictory: He was a man of religious conviction who sinned openly, a man who craved both extreme solitude and near-constant female company, a man who successfully wooed women but, some of them say, also abused them. He frequented marijuana websites, then argued with other posters, often through heated religious screeds.
“Turn to JESUS or burn in hell,” he wrote on one site on Oct. 7, 2005. “WAKE UP SINNERS U CANT SAVE YOURSELF U WILL DIE AN WORMS SHALL EAT YOUR FLESH, NOW YOUR SOUL IS GOING SOMEWHERE.”
A number of people who knew Mr. Dear said he was a staunch abortion opponent, though another ex-wife, Pamela Ross, said that he did not obsess on the subject. After his arrest, Mr. Dear said “no more baby parts” to investigators, a law enforcement official said.
One person who spoke with him extensively about his religious views said Mr. Dear, who is 57, had praised people who attacked abortion providers, saying they were doing “God’s work.” In 2009, said the person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of concerns for the privacy of the family, Mr. Dear described as “heroes” members of the Army of God, a loosely organized group of anti-abortion extremists that has claimed responsibility for a number of killings and bombings.
Now can we point out that irresponsible rhetoric from politicians ranting and raving about baby parts and abortion and Planned Parenthood might have contributed to his murderous spree? Is it still too soon? Just tell me when you feel comfortable. I don’t want to rush you.
Jesus fucking christ, I am so sick of the sniveling horseshit from people every time some lunatic is prodded into doing something evil. It’s a gigantic hoocoodanode, ain’t it? How were we supposed to know that this might cause problems:
During the second Republican presidential debate on 16 September, Fiorina made a sharp impact when she said: “As regards Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking while someone says ‘We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain’.”
If you continue to believe that kind of political rhetoric had no impact on this and other previous murders, you’re as full of shit as Fiorina but don’t have the balls to go all in like she does.
kindness
The right sees this as easy pickings. Liberals won’t fight back along the same lines. They’re right for the most part. Meaning at some point the camel’s back will be broken. Then what?
Lee
stochastic terrorism:
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/heres-how-far-right-christians-incited-stochastic-terrorism-at-a-colorado-springs-planned-parenthood/
The same method that ISIS uses. Except ISIS has the balls to own up to what they are doing.
different-church-lady
Not when we have this backlog of Syrian refugees to vilify.
Lee
Ugh comment in moderation…not sure what triggered it :(
Yutsano
No point JC. Rafael “Calgary” Cruz has already declared him a leftist transgendered activist. No amount of facts will sway any of the true believers nor their media enablers.
Lee
stochastic terrorism
Same tactic an Daesh(?) uses, except that they own up to what they are doing.
Scout211
Isn’t his name Dear? Typo?
ET
It seems that the only time violent rhetoric can prod people are when that violent rhetoric comes from Muslims, video games, and rap music. Otherwise someone is just crazy and then it just a big giant hoocoodanode.
Lee
@Scout211:
Whatever the other word is for ISIS. I had a comment in moderation and was thinking something like that triggered it.
Steeplejack
@Lee:
FYWP currently does not like “naked” links—raw HTML. Prettify your link with the link-mo-tron above the comment box so you get something in the form
<a href="URL">TEXT</a>.Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Sorry, the allowable window to do that was from 2:53 am to 2:56 am on Sunday 11/29. If you didn’t seize your chance during the allowed time, it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now.
Betty Cracker
@ET: Or #BLM. The same whiny fucksticks who counseled caution in the wake of the Planned Parenthood murders fell all over themselves to attribute cop murders to #BLM.
Adam L Silverman
@Lee: As we discussed here a little while back in August:
https://balloon-juice.com/2015/08/19/post-modern-violence-from-leaderless-resistance-to-lone-wolves/
Adam L Silverman
@Lee: I freed it. Go to your happy place.
Steeplejack
@Lee:
Scout211 was referring to “Deer” in the first sentence of the original post.
eemom
What balls? SHE’s the one making that assertion; more specifically, whining that saying otherwise is “left wing smear tactics.” God, but I despise that she-scumbag.
Roger Moore
Of course it’s still too soon. It’s just speculation until he says outright that he attacked Planned Parenthood in an attempt to prevent abortions and that he was motivated by the videos. Even then, we’ll have to worry that he was coerced into saying that by the police. Just remember, speculation that exonerates the right wing (or implicated their enemies) must be taken at face value until conclusively disproved, while anything that implicates them (or exonerates their enemies) is speculative until proved to the right wing’s satisfaction.
Shorter: heads, the right wing is innocent, tails the left wing is guilty.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
That’s the wrong Robert Dear. Rob Deer was a free swinging slugger who played for the Milwaukee Brewers, among others, and struck out a lot.
Bill Arnold
@Lee:
This might be the winning argument.
(Does anyone know who coined the term “stochastic terrorism”?) EDIT ah Adam Silverman was on it in August.
low-tech cyclist
@Lee:
That’s it, alright. My only quibble would be that the word ‘stochastic’ is more the vocabulary of math books than anything else, and it’s gonna shut people’s brains down when they see it.
I’d call it crowdsourced terrorism. I think people will get that.
Mike J
Some of that sniveling horseshit was on the front page right here, from a poster who is usually pretty damned good.
Poopyman
@Bill Arnold: The term shows up on Daily Kos on January 11, 2011, triggering a flurry of uses. The DK article uses it like an existing term, but that Google Thing hasn’t shown me anything earlier.
Roger Moore
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
He didn’t just strike out a lot; he was a master of the Three True Outcomes: walks, whiffs, and taters.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack: Also, I found out this morning that FYWP doesn’t like long links. Links have got be clothed and short.
ETA: I tried a dropbox link and got kicked to the bit bucket twice.
Felanius Kootea
I like the term stochastic terrorism. Now I wish a politician would forcefully point out that this is what the Republican candidates who bash PP are doing.
Steeplejack
@BillinGlendaleCA:
How long is long? I have occasionally linked a Google search result or a Google Maps page, and those can be really long.
But maybe it’s another temporary artifact of the current work in progress. (Fingers firmly crossed.)
Germy
benw
OT: somebody wake up redshirt! Mad Max: Fury Road wins the National Board of Review Best Film of 2015.
Belafon
Lady Macbeth worried too much. If she’d done it right, she would have blamed Duncan for his own murder.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack: I linked to a GIF file on my dropbox. I ended up going to TinyURL and shortened it and that was OK for FYWP.
ETA: Or it could be that FYWP doesn’t like links to dropbox anymore.
trollhattan
Blog fav Jack Ohman lays it out in a way conservatives can understand: with pictures.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: I didn’t coin the term. Somebody several years ago set up a blog at a .ca url named stochastic terrorism blog, made one pose defining the term, and has never done anything else there ever again. I think I linked to it in my August post on the topic.
catclub
@eemom:
Said person has dropped like a stone in the polls. Ignorable.
trollhattan
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
Dear in the head
lightslines.RSA
See John Sides for a summary of Nathan Kalmoe’s work a few years ago, after Gabby Gifford was shot. Kalmoe:
The PP attack isn’t about the same kind of metaphorical language, but I think there’s reasonable similarity.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
Especially because they scream that Obama has blood on his hands whenever he says that maybe cops shouldn’t shoot unarmed law abiding citizens and get away with it. That’s inciting violence against cops, but what the GOP is doing is totally different, because.
trollhattan
@catclub:
Lucky us. All the lunacy of Bachman with none of the Midwestern “charm” or the crazy eyes.
gogiggs
Why do you insist on politicizing this political issue?
pat
The real problem is that this “baby body parts being sold by PP” is out there now and no one who wants to believe it will be persuaded that it is not true.
And if it is true, then all violence against PP is justified. I don’t see any good outcome, as long as the so-called media is willing to let it go without vigorous challenge.
eemom
@catclub:
She might be the VP pick for whatever maniac they end up nominating, though. UGH.
Maybe not as stupid as Sarah Palin, but an even more despicable liar.
Also, I hate her face.
Hungry Joe
Re …
“Now can we point out that irresponsible rhetoric from politicians ranting and raving about baby parts and abortion and Planned Parenthood might have contributed to his murderous spree?” — No.
“Is it still too soon?” — Yes.
“Just tell me when you feel comfortable.” — Never.
“I don’t want to rush you.” — You’re rushing us.
Calouste
The religious conviction of get-out-of-jail-free-card evangelism.
Mary G
“He smoked marijuana, therefore he must be a lefty liberal.” – what I imagine is their fallback position.
dedc79
Fiorina’s line about the videos at the debate understandably got the most attention, but Cruz’s was in some ways worse. It was pretty close to a call for vigilante “justice”:
The clear implication was that planned parenthood was committing crimes and that the government wasn’t fulfilling its obligation to prosecute those crimes. What’s an abortion-hating citizen to do?
Hungry Joe
@eemom: Fiorina isn’t a threat to win anything because, I think, she reminds too many people of their horrid, wretched, nasty fifth- (or sixth- or seventh- or whatever-) grade homeroom teacher.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
Well, it’s obvious the man is an atheist and a communist, I mean no TRUE Christian(tm) would say that.
Mike J
@pat:
Bad Jackie wants to believe. You would think that people would be happy to learn that their worst fear is unfounded and horrible things aren’t really happening, but not Bad Jackie.
scav
Only rap music and video games are dangerous incitement to violence. Outright calls for violence by ministers of the faith and politicians are patriotic and religiously justified and absolved from all downsides, while reaping all the benefits possible.
bluehill
Hateful political rhetoric doesn’t incite violence, but rap music and violent games clearly do.
BillinGlendaleCA
@scav:
@bluehill: And yet, other countries have violent entertainment and the kids listen to rap. There’s something different here, if I could only think of the difference…
bluehill
@BillinGlendaleCA: hmmm. What could it be???
mai naem mobile
These pigs will never understand or admit to it. And other non-RWNJ,non-abortion recipients or seekers won’t get it until fourteen year old Cousin Emily or forty six year old Aunt Jessica dies getting a back alley abortion.
geg6
I HATE these fuckers. That is all.
MomSense
@geg6:
Seconded. I was just about to write the same thing when I saw your comment.
EriktheRed
@Scout211:
If you take the bewildered look in his eyes in his photo into account, “Deer” isn’t too far off.
geg6
@MomSense:
Great minds. ;-)
Roger Moore
@bluehill:
Who could it be, I just don’t know. Could it be … SATAN!
J R in WV
@MomSense:
Me too.
Despicable people fomenting terrorism in our midst, using the most vile lies imaginable.
And the “mainstream media” won’t even touch the Republican violence with the proverbial pole to inform people that it isn’t both sides doing it, it is one side fomenting violence, all alone by themselves.
Using despicable lies to do it, also. I hate their unAmerican propaganda!
ETA: Jack’s “cartoon” is great, on point, accurate. Highly recommended!
EriktheRed
In case this hasn’t been posted yet:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/joann-windholz-planned-parenthood-culprit
jl
@Roger Moore: Hmmm… Satan keeps those kids in those socialist atheistic other countries from doing so much violence to each other… and for that reason, they don’t all carry guns around, and therefore cannot defend their own freedom….
Yes, it all makes sense now.
Elie
As I read the bitter pain, humor and anger in our comments alls I can do is have another martini and plan to read more philosophy in prep for the spiritual challenges ahead. That and music. All of the arts. Only language for what’s ahead
tazj
@geg6: I have to say that is the way I feel right about now. I’ll just add I have what I’ll just describe as a complicated obstetrical history and leave it at that. I’m sure no one wants to know anymore than that or even that. However, this is what makes me so upset when I read things especially from men declaring that people who believe in a woman’s right to choose have a cavalier attitude toward life. I always said when I was going through things that I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy and I still don’t but sometimes I think that if they could experience things for a few minutes they might understand. Pro-choice doesn’t mean you want women to have abortions but you just understand the need for access to safe medical care without fear.
I see how the GOP now realizes people need access to mental healthcare in the wake of another shooting. They’re all talking about it now especially Paul Ryan.
Another Holocene Human
@Hungry Joe: Not any teacher I ever had but she does remind me a bit of an evil elementary school principal I had who tried to get me to rat out my parents to CPS because they opposed her policies in the PTA.
Thankfully, even as a kid I saw through that shit.
Another Holocene Human
@tazj: I dunno, I think some of them (and that includes those creepy pro-choice women) are just evil pieces of fuck and they do not care, nay, they enjoy their cruelty towards those with fertility and pregnancy problems. Whether it’s celibate clergy taking out concealed aggression against breeder lay people or horrid wretches who think your suffering, anguish, and heartbreak somehow enhances their social position (the baby you lost would have done better than theirs in school and life, or your untimely death means they win, or maybe your suffering proves you don’t have God’s favor and they do, whereas your happiness enrages them), these maladjusted malevolent souls have it in for their fellow humans. No accounting of ugly childbirth facts will sway these sadistic shitstains.
J R in WV
@EriktheRed:
Every other sentence this person utters is a falsehood. She is using the big lie to swing against liberals and progressives who believe in reproductive health care for all.
She is fomenting violent terrorism in America with every word in her post, which she had deleted already. But others have copies of her vile sedition and support for terrorism. More than support, she is begging violent pseudo-christians to engage in terrorism, murder for their false religion.
I know real Christians, and this woman is not one. She is something else, something vile and despicable, almost exactly like the executioners of ISIL in the desert of the Mid-East. A killer in the name of her religion.
I gotta stop now. Dinner is starting to smell good, and this woman could ruin my enjoyment of one of Tamara’s recipes.
LongHairedWeirdo
I’ll go you one better. Anyone who preaches that abortion is murder has to eat a bit of this.
I don’t care if they say that they only expect peaceful, law abiding resistance. Western society agrees that force is justifiable to stop murder. If you preach abortion is murder, people will naturally assume you’re a coward, or you feel constrained by popular opinion to lie, and disregard any call for peaceful, law abiding resistance.
(Or, of course, as is the case with a huge, huge, majority of pro-lifers: they *claim* they feel abortion is murder because it gives them a morality-stiffy and tribal identification, but deep in their hearts, they know damn well it isn’t.)
Steeplejack (phone)
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Sometimes FYWP objects to some (unknown) character string in a URL. I get that occasionally with standard YouTube links.
Satby
@mai naem mobile: that’s what it finally took to get abortion legalized. It looks like people will have to die needless and agonizing deaths again for people to wake up. And that includes all the non-voters who think their access to birth control is safe.
PurpleGirl
@tazj: I doubt that the GOP sees the need for better mental health care. Really, really doubt it. If you can’t pay for it, you can’t have it. They do not care at all about people’s problems. They didn’t change after Sandy Hook, they didn’t change after any of the mass shootings. They only care for themselves and that is all. Have a mental health problem, either get over it or tell it to Dog.
tazj
@PurpleGirl: Yes, it’s really hard to believe after everything that’s happened that they’ll finally do something positive now. Especially because they all hate the ACA, I don’t know how they’re going to suddenly spend money for healthcare. It’s probably just a ruse to distract people from working on gun control legislation, but this is what some Republicans were claiming they were going to do today.
Gvg
Another similarity between our “conservatives” and the radical Islamists is how often the violent martyrs are not sincere in their lifestyle choices. They don’t themselves live the way their original religious leaders preached but feel free to attack others. I really despise the type when I meet them here.
Laura
@Satby: it looks like WOMEN will have to die again to get SOME people to wake up about abortion rights. For others, women dying again IS the goal. Wages of slutty, slutty sin, dontcha know.
D58826
If, as the Goopers claim, the anti-PP speech has no impact then why are all of the GOOPPER candidates shouting about PP at the top of their lungs. If at a more general level speech has no impact then why does corporate America spend billions of dollars to convince us that product A is better than product B. Why does the Pope go around the world making speeches and giving sermons if his words have no impact. Maybe he just likes to take airplane rides. Since speech has no impact I’m sure Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson will have no problem if the government shuts down their media empires. Yea Right!!!
Paul in KY
@low-tech cyclist: Crowdsourced terrorism is definitely a better way to say it.
Paul in KY
@pat: No way is ‘all violence justified’ against PP!!!! If those stupid videos were true, all they were doing was selling parts from an already aborted fetus. PP didn’t truck the woman in to get the abortion, she would have come in of her own volition & had it done.
pat, you are completely wrong about that.
Paul in KY
@J R in WV: The name is ‘Christian Identity’ or ‘Satan’s Fake Christians’