Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

The words do not have to be perfect.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

American History and Black History can not be separated.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Cancel the cowardly WaPo and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / The NRA Holiday Song

The NRA Holiday Song

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NEWTOWN, CT - DECEMBER 16: Twenty seven wooden stand in a yard down the street from the Sandy Hook School December 16, 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut. Twenty-six people were shot dead, including twenty children, after a gunman identified as Adam Lanza opened fire at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Lanza also reportedly had committed suicide at the scene. A 28th person, believed to be Nancy Lanza, found dead in a house in town, was also believed to have been shot by Adam Lanza. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
NEWTOWN, CT – DECEMBER 16: Twenty seven wooden stand in a yard down the street from the Sandy Hook School December 16, 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut. Twenty-six people were shot dead, including twenty children, after a gunman identified as Adam Lanza opened fire at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Lanza also reportedly had committed suicide at the scene. A 28th person, believed to be Nancy Lanza, found dead in a house in town, was also believed to have been shot by Adam Lanza. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
‘Tis the season to be shot up
FA-LA-LA-LA-LA, LA-LA-LA-LA
Mentally ill transgendered leftists
FA-LA-LA-LA-LA, LA-LA-LA-LA
Shame on your for making this political
FA-LA-LA-LA-LA, LA-LA-LA-LA
We don’t know all the facts yet
FA-LA-LA-LA-LA, LA-LA-LA-LA

Reader Interactions

211Comments

  2. 2.

    NotMax

    DECEMBER 16: Twenty seven wooden stand

    Say what?

    Also too, must hail from at least last year unless someone snagged a time machine on Cyber Monday.

  4. 4.

    RaflW

    We have not yet achieved peak wingnut. But it is getting closer. Not surprised that the attending death toll is rising, however.

    Sickened, but not surprised.

  5. 5.

    Skippy-san

    This is not going to come out right, but I really hope the shooters are not Arabs. If they are, Katie bar the door-the insanity will be unbelievable.

    I for one will not be happy to welcome our new brown shirt overlords.

  6. 6.

    TaMara (BHF)

    Well ABCNews is pushing the ISIS motive, so must have been dark skinned people this time.

    My exact words when I turned on the tv to hear that another mass shooting was Fuck. Still stands. A developmental center??

  7. 7.

    Redshift

    One of the guests on Diane Rehm yesterday made a very good point (in reference to the previous shooting.) If we “don’t have enough facts yet” to discuss political motivations for a shooting then we also don’t have enough facts to blame it on mental illness. If there hasn’t been time for any solid information to come out about motives, then there obviously hasn’t been time for a psych evaluation. A good way of calling out the fact that anyone insisting that “he was obviously crazy” is just trying to deflect responsibility.

  8. 8.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Redshift: According to Rick Santorum, America has a “scourge of mental illness”. I’d be interested to find out from Republicans why Americans have the lion’s share of the world’s mentally ill. Maybe Europe didn’t send their best?

  9. 9.

    Anoniminous

    @TaMara (BHF):

    Spokeswoman said, “some kind of function today, an event, and during that event is when multiple shooters came in and just started shooting” so it wasn’t the development center, per se.

  14. 14.

    PaulW

    We need to have the copyright/trademark office rename the NRA to the National Murder Association because THAT is all they promote now.

  15. 15.

    mistermix

    @TaMara (BHF):

    Well ABCNews is pushing the ISIS motive, so must have been dark skinned people this time.

    I realize that the job of TV news at times like these is speculation but why would ISIS want to take out a gathering of county officials at a facility for the developmentally disabled? The whole point of mass terror is to scare the masses, not some narrowly targeted group like this.

  16. 16.

    JPL

    So they evacuated the local discount mall because someone saw a middle eastern man in fatigues with a possible gun. Waterman Discount Mall in San Bernadino.

  17. 17.

    MazeDancer

    There is a reason they are not releasing the name of the group that rented the conference center today. And it is not respecting privacy.

    Every reporter would have asked immediately who was that group.

    There is something different about this shooting. Crazy people don’t usually wear bullet-proof vests and tactical gear. Or flee the scene. Escape, or even saying alive, are not of interest.

    Who knows what the story is, but it seems different that usual. And how heart-breaking there is a usual.

  18. 18.

    jl

    @mistermix: 24/7 news has to continuously pump out something that can be dressed up as news worthy and topical content, no matter what. They can’t allow the inevitable time lag that occurs after quickly developing emergencies for reliable facts to be known to get in the way. So they drag endless ‘experts’ through the studio to talk about whatever can be even remotely related to the event. So, streams of blather about Daesh, whatever audience pleasing scary talk about bad guys who did previous attack, guns, gun control politics, whatever.

    Edit: reports of White male suspects have been removed from the news reports I’ve seen. So we really have no clue who did it. But no shortage of white armed reactionary racist nutcases living near and in the Inland Empire.

  19. 19.

    RaflW

    @Just Some Fuckhead: The dirty secret of mental health is that politicians, particularly the tax-cutting kind, have no interest whatsoever in treatment, care, housing or support for those who live with it.
    Did anyone ask Santorum about THAT?

  20. 20.

    JoyceH

    My suggestion – people in favor of sensible gun control should JOIN the NRA – in enough numbers, they could outvote the crazies and replace the current leadership, get Wayne LaPierre and his ilk out of there. Now, truthfully, I don’t think this would really work, because I don’t think the NRA is about its own membership anymore and no longer represents gun owners, but gun manufacturers – but the steps they would have to take in order to beat back such a move would make it clear that they are actually a lobbying organization for big business and exist entirely to prevent regulation of that business. It would certainly liven up the NRA’s annual meeting, wouldn’t it?

  21. 21.

    scav

    @John Cole:
    Here’s my first draft. (still playing a little loose in places)

    Deck the halls with guns and ammo,
    Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
    Tis the season to be shot at,
    Fa la la la la, la la la la.

    Don we now our holstered penis,
    Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
    Troll the libtards with our blood trail,
    Fa la la la la, la la la la.

    See the bodies fall like timber,
    Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
    Empty clip and then reload.
    Fa la la la la, la la la la.

    Join the chorus all together,
    Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
    It’s too early to lay blame,
    Fa la la la la, la la la la.

    Fast away the old crime passes,
    Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
    Hail the new, ye shooting bastards,
    Fa la la la la, la la la la.

    Sing the ad theme, all together,
    Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
    All that’s needed are automatics.
    Fa la la la la, la la la la.

  23. 23.

    Chris

    @TaMara (BHF):
    Well ABCNews is pushing the ISIS motive, so must have been dark skinned people this time.

    At this point, I’m really worried about ISIS shootings over here. Not because of the real damage they’d cause (I’m under no illusions; I’m still far likelier to be shot by some Confederate flag worshiping asshole than a jihadist), but because Paris has sent the loonies into overdrive in a way that Boston didn’t (campaign season probably has a lot to do with it), and I can picture some shitty repercussions if they start having more incidents like that to point to.

    (And thanks to the NRA, there’s plenty of potential for these kinds of shootings).

  24. 24.

    Cermet

    Maybe the report of armor and the like is wrong but if not, than this is most likely a militha group – not very likely Daesh has access to such level of military equipment here. Zero chance they are black, so the issue is, what militha group and why did they pick that target. This is scary if it is an organized militha – but if it is, maybe …maybe, these nut jobs will be called the terrorist they are. Still, rather it not be since that would indicate we, as a country, have crossed into yet another level of wingnut insanity. Scary either way, I guess.

  26. 26.

    pat

    Guardian reporting on sheriff’s press conference: At least 14 dead.

    FBI saying they DO NOT KNOW if this is a terrorist incident.

  28. 28.

    scav

    @trollhattan: They really didn’t even bother to do anything with the name. Frosty as Coal? Low rent imagery, so why bother if it doesn’t bother to heat anything? It’s not white. Clean Burn, the Coal Lump at least scans. As does Bang Bang, the Lone Wolf for that matter. There must have been some magic in that ammo clip he found, for when he placed it in his gun, it began to rattle on!

  29. 29.

    JMG

    The only way Daesh could insure this would be a big time incident and not just another same old US mass shooting would be to get caught. These guys didn’t do that, so I’d be surprised if they weren’t as American as apple pie rather than falafel.

  30. 30.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Holy crap. I’ve been checking twitter to see if anyone identified the group that was meeting, but I don’t see anything. Of course, there are something like 93K tweets on that hashtag.

  31. 31.

    Misterpuff

    @RaflW: Not that I’ve seen. But Chris Matthews did ask him why the divergence between Yurp and the US in mass shootings. Frothy went directly to Paris but Tweety was having none of it. Said that’s Terrorism. Why does Europe have such a low rate of mass casualty shootings, maybe the regulation of guns? Santorum was forced to hand wave. And then Tweety shut it down.
    Tweety is infused with Villager midi-chorians but lately he is seeing the Fascism for the trees.

  34. 34.

    jl

    @pat: Police Chief at interview said they don’t know whether it is terrorism ‘in the traditional sense people are thinking about’ (with finger quotes), but added that it is obviously some kind of domestic terrorist incident. Not sure exactly what he meant, I think they are just trying to be careful not to get rumors started.

  36. 36.

    JMG

    @Iowa Old Lady: This is pure uninformed speculation on my part, but I don’t see a government facility offering caregiver-type services renting out space to any old group for a party. I suspect these were public employees of some kind.

  37. 37.

    jl

    @Myiq2xu:

    ” The real culprit here is climate change. ”

    Go read up on how the current Syrian civil war started before making ignorant comments that humiliate yourself.

  38. 38.

    Cermet

    @bystander: A little early for that conclusion. Again, if so, then we are in trouble. Lets see but some group is very dangerous and this isn’t over by a long …bad choice of words. I mean the killers are still at large.

  39. 39.

    Chris

    @Misterpuff:
    Frothy went directly to Paris but Tweety was having none of it. Said that’s Terrorism.

    Yes, I’ve seen that meme pop up with a couple wingnut acquaintances (that Paris invalidates everything ever said about European gun laws). Of course, even with the incident in Paris, America is still light years ahead of France in murder-by-gun rates, even once you adjust for population size.

  41. 41.

    trollhattan

    @scav:
    It’s so phenomenally low-rent you have to wonder why they bothered? My guess is some coal exec’s kid was in a JC film class.

  42. 42.

    Brachiator

    @TaMara (BHF):

    Well ABCNews is pushing the ISIS motive, so must have been dark skinned people this time.

    The last news report I saw, no one had offered any descriptions of any suspects. Nothing more than talk about a black SUV in which some might have fled.

  43. 43.

    p.a.

    To It’s Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas

    It’s beginning to look like Peak Wingnut
    everywhere you go.
    I’m skidding on spent gun shells, hearing sounds of shots not bells
    Take cover stay low low low

    It’s beginning to look like Peak Wingnut
    That’s what the NRA has in store
    Libs may whine about Not Again, but it’s just a question of when
    America promises more more more.

  48. 48.

    joes527

    News interview with witness who saw all 3 gunmen at the same time. It looks like the: “at least 3 gunmen” bit is accurate.

  49. 49.

    trollhattan

    @rikyrah:
    About the only way I can think of to undercut this for “vilest ever” would be to go shoot up an SPCA on free adoption day.

  50. 50.

    imonlylurking

    @scav: Change the 2nd to last line, from

    All that’s needed are automatics.

    to

    All we need are automatics.

  51. 51.

    p.a.

    @Cermet: If it were Daesh, why San Bernardino? 60 miles from LA, go to LA for max effect. Not trying to downplay the horror, but there’s a reason Daesh struck Paris not a provincial ctr.

  53. 53.

    WereBear

    One reason the US might have more mental illness is that I don’t think countries with a more solid safety net, a society that is less tooth & claw Darwinian, simply does not create the same kind, and amount, of stresses.

    And for any mental illness, even a TBI, stress is going to make it worse.

  54. 54.

    trollhattan

    @SatanicPanic:
    Me too. San Berdoo is poor and working class, not the sort of place I’d imagine somebody wanting to get attention and press coverage attacking. I can only guess there was a big beef with the facility staff or admin, but that’s me using logic where it doesn’t belong. And if a group, who’s the ringleader? Was he even there?

  56. 56.

    ? Martin

    @SatanicPanic: Yeah, I don’t see it. I don’t know what to make of this, to be honest. Could be anything, really.

    But it’s not the facility that makes me think it’s not international terrorism but the fact that they went for a conference room. That sounds like it it was someone familiar with the place, maybe with a grudge. But that makes more sense if it’s a lone individual and not a group.

    I’m amazed that there is a manhunt on with no known number of suspects. That’s almost unheard of.

  59. 59.

    Scout211

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I just read on CNN that there was a report that employees from the Public Health Department were using the conference room for a luncheon. They were quoting a female who works at the regional center.

    More speculation that may end up wrong, of course.

  60. 60.

    jl

    @SatanicPanic: For California, there are a lot of white racist extremists there. Pockets of extreme conservatism with guns. So, I can see how some local right wing nuts might target San Berdoo.

    But, we have no idea. Funny that initial descriptions of the suspects were removed from reports I saw, and no info on descriptions is coming out. So, we have no clue really who did it. But San Bernardino is one of the places in CA where if there were a terrorist attack, right wingers would immediately come to my mind as a good bet.

  62. 62.

    trollhattan

    @? Martin:
    The Charlie Hebdo murders took place at a staff meeting they’d clearly researched, but I don’t see anything remotely political in today’s carnage.

  64. 64.

    beltane

    @? Martin: Whatever group was meeting in the conference room could easily have been the target of multiple people’s rage. For all we know, the shooters could be siblings or otherwise related. Earlier this fall, there was a mass shooting involving a social worker here where I live. The shooter acted alone, but it’s easy enough to envision a scenario where she would have had accomplices.

  65. 65.

    JMG

    @schrodinger’s cat: Compare and contrast with the Paris attacks. The latter went for large public gatherings, sought an enormous death toll (could’ve been thousands in that stadium), and for all but one attacker, suicide was part of the deal. Here we have unknown gunmen targeting a specific meeting that not too many people probably knew about, then fleeing. No hostage taking, no suicide. It doesn’t fit the pattern.
    Of course, if religio/ideological terrorists are adapting the tactics of US nutbars, that’s really scary.

  66. 66.

    Brachiator

    @beltane:

    If the getaway SUV was black, that’s enough for the media to run with the scary black people angle.

    The local media hasn’t done that. And right now, with so little real information, anything coming from the national media is a waste of time.

  67. 67.

    beltane

    @Brachiator: I was watching NBC earlier. They were more awful than I though they’d be, doing everything they could to push the ISIS angle. Local news is always much better in these situations.

  68. 68.

    Patricia Kayden

    We should just elect the head of the NRA next November and call it quits. This is a country of the gun and for the gun. There is no ceiling on the number of people who have to be gunned down before people demand that their government pass gun reform.

  69. 69.

    SatanicPanic

    @? Martin: yeah, this is really an odd story

    @jl: I thought about that. I know Riverside is that way as well. But why some social services center? The whole thing is weird.

  70. 70.

    JPL

    Dressed in black with a black mask.. That’s according to someone who spoke to his wife. His wife only saw one person.

  72. 72.

    Tommy

    @TaMara (BHF): I think I have become imune to mass killing. Shootings. It used to freak me the fuck out. Now I guess I have just got used to it. How sad is that.

    Oh and I will just add my father is a shooter. A stud with a gun. Not a liberal by any means of the word. He thinks people that think if we had more guns some citizen would stop a person from killing all they wanted to kill is shit all stupid!

  73. 73.

    Kryptik

    @Brachiator:

    It might be pointless far as actual facts, but ‘waste of time’ is selling it short. It’s important to see what they say, because it could be peddling shitty narratives and memes that could make it even harder to do shit about something like this even when the facts come out.

  75. 75.

    eemom

    I would really, REALLY like to see Wayne LaPierre shot in the face. Does that make me a bad person?

  79. 79.

    Ned Ludd

    As someone upthread mentioned, a local network news affiliate was reporting that a spokesperson from the center had said that the main shooting took place in conference room where Dept of Health workers were assembled.

    Now google “california dept health abortion” to see how the wingnuts have been whipped into a froth recently over claims from California churches that the state Dept of Managed Health Care was forcing them to finance employee health plans that covered abortion.

    Speculation of course.

  80. 80.

    scav

    Again, loose first draft.

    O Come All Ye Gun Nuts,
    Armed to the Eyeteeth.
    O come ye, O come ye to “insert crime scene here”
    Come and behold them,
    Mounds and mounds of corpses;
    O come, let us recount them,
    O come, let us ecount them,
    O come, let us recount them,
    Gifts to the Second.

    O Sing, choirs of members,
    Sing of Rifled triumphs,
    Sing of the congressmen doing the work.
    Gutting the laws’ hold:
    Open Carry for All.
    O come, let us arm them,
    O come, let us arm them,
    O come, let us arm them,
    Arm One and All.

    All Hail! National Rifle
    Association of the Highest!
    Gun Nuts for evermore be Thy name adored.
    Word of the Second, shots in flesh appearing;
    O come, let us add more,
    O come, let us add more,
    O come, let us add more,
    Rip into flesh.

  81. 81.

    Cermet

    @trollhattan: one attacker yes, a grudge but three!? And a government agency with their employee’s -sounds more like a targeted attack by a group with a specific agenda – again, too little known but really hope it wasn’t a militha group. That would indicated … never mind. Need more details. Maybe just a single gunman with an automatic. Then the attack for a grudge makes sense. People panic and maybe thought there were more people.

  83. 83.

    Scout211

    From CNN online:

    The shootings were in the conference center at the Inland Regional Center, the center’s executive director, Lavinia Johnson, told CNN. She believes the county’s Department of Public Health was having a holiday party there. Johnson said the fire alarm went off in her building, and people began to evacuate but then the order came to stay in place. Later police came and took people out of their offices.

  85. 85.

    eemom

    @JPL:

    That is kind of you, thanks. But mostly I worry about my children, in this fucked up mess of a country where NOT getting shot is increasingly a matter of fucking LUCK.

  86. 86.

    jl

    @SatanicPanic: Some reports say that there was some local government function going on in the building, the developmentally disabled center itself was not the target.

    So, really nothing solid to go on. My hunch about local right wing terrorists or nutcases is just based on what local material is available for something like that. That is not much. Could be anything.

  87. 87.

    D58826

    Speaker of the House is having a moment of silence and keeping the victims in our prayers but the Congress is not about to change the law that allows people on the no fly list to still buy guns. I guess someone has to be able to protect the no fly list.

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    @Kryptik:

    It might be pointless far as actual facts, but ‘waste of time’ is selling it short. It’s important to see what they say, because it could be peddling shitty narratives and memes that could make it even harder to do shit about something like this even when the facts come out.

    Right now, no one knows exactly what has happened, let alone why. You can’t do shit about something if you don’t know what you are dealing with.

    Reacting to uninformed speculation, or even worrying about uninformed speculation, gets you nowhere.

    Now, if we had some fool like Trump jumping up and giving an interview that he saw thousands of Mooslims shooting up San Bernadino, you’d have something to worry about. But otherwise…

  90. 90.

    Betty Cracker

    President Obama was doing an interview when he was briefed on the shooting. Here’s what he said, according to the NYT:

    The one thing we do know is that we have a pattern now of mass shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the world, and there’s some steps we could take, not to eliminate every one of these mass shootings, but to improve the odds that they don’t happen as frequently, common-sense gun safety laws, stronger background checks and, you know, for those who are concerned about terrorism of, you know, some may be aware of the fact that we have a no-fly list where people can’t get on planes but those same people who we don’t allow to fly could go into a store right now in the United States and buy a firearm and there’s nothing that we can do to stop them.

    I’m glad PBO mentioned the fact that people who can’t get on planes CAN buy guns. That one tidbit of information encapsulates the utter insanity of our approach to guns quite nicely.

  91. 91.

    MazeDancer

    AP says the San Bernadino Department of Public Health was having a banquet in the conference room.

    Who would target them? And for what?

    MSNBC analyst saying maybe they got the wrong address. That has happened before.

  92. 92.

    Stella B

    Da’esh isn’t going to attack San Bernardino. San Berdoo is a meth capital, not the nation’s capital. Hell, Da’esh isn’t even likely to attack LA.

  94. 94.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    Wingnut of my acquaintance just described this as sounding more like a Die Hard movie with every report.

  95. 95.

    Brachiator

    @beltane:

    I was watching NBC earlier. They were more awful than I though they’d be, doing everything they could to push the ISIS angle.

    Wow. That’s pretty wretched.

  96. 96.

    JPL

    @eemom: The NRA is taking away my right to shop, go to church or walk in a park without wondering about someone with a gun. fkfkfkfkfkfk

  97. 97.

    Stella B

    @Calouste: Botany Bay wasn’t established until after the Revolutionary War. The UK transported its convicts to America prior to that. Australia was established as a reaction to the loss of the larger part of the British penal system. People who were convicted of small thefts were given the choice of transportation or death from the late 17th century on.

  98. 98.

    Tommy

    @eemom: Nope. I would like the guy to spend a holiday weekend in my house. He’d see guns are not something we fear and we might kind of get behind him if he wasn’t so bat shit crazy.

    There is a story I tell. My state is anal about guns, as it should be. I have a gun permit. I don’t own a single gun nor will I ever. Dad made me get it because if he dies I get his guns. It is the law. Dad is a stickler for following the rule of law.

    I got that permit and nobody is coming to take away your guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  99. 99.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @JoyceH:

    A scene from The West Wing:

    Congressman Skinner: You know I never understood why you gun control people don’t all join the NRA. They’ve got two million members. You bring three million to the next meeting, call a vote. All those in favor of tossing guns… bam! Move on.
    Josh Lyman: It’s a heck of a strategy, Matt. I’ll bring that up at a meeting.

  101. 101.

    scav

    “I Saw Mama Take Down Santa Claus” is a natural, but I don’t really know the original. But there’s no way Santa’s not going to escape Ground-Standing during the ‘Mercan leg of his delivery run.

  104. 104.

    ogliberal

    Wingers on Twitter all over the name Farooq Saeed. Not confirmed anywhere – the alleged source is police scanner. Again, completely unconfirmed.

  105. 105.

    Ned Ludd

    @MazeDancer: Why target Dept of Health? There is the rather tenuous abortion angle I mentioned upthread.

    Another possibility that occurs to me, although it’s a pretty big stretch: the hardcore anti-vaccination fringe has lately been associating with Tea Partiers and RWNJs and has been ramping up the militancy of its rhetoric lately in the wake of CA SB277. Lots of Holocaust analogies, at least one Australian activist calling for violence via execution of public health officials, etc.

  106. 106.

    Tommy

    @JoyceH: They are already there and nothing changes. I am not a gun owner. Everybody I know is. The people that I know that own guns are pretty anal about them. I am 46 and have asked to go hunting when them. They will have none of it, giving me a gun, if I don’t take classes on safety. I think 99 percent of people with guns own them in a manner that doesn’t worry me much.

  107. 107.

    Brachiator

    @pat:

    Latest from the Guardian is that the murderers could still be in the building..??

    People need to calm down. The police are doing a room by room search of the building. There has not been further shooting. Other claims have been that suspects may have fled the scene in an SUV. Nothing much more is known.

  109. 109.

    pat

    I thought it was interesting that after all the talk of a black SUV, someone who was at the presser could come away with that idea.

    This is so weird…. three shooters target the Dept. of Health at a banquet….

  113. 113.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @Betty Cracker: The thing is, the no-fly list is too broad, with people put on it for no discernible good reason. They can’t prohibit people on that list from buying guns, because then there would be some due process, and they’d actually have to defend why someone is on it. So, while I do believe that we’d be better off with more gun control, in this specific comparison, it’s the no-fly list that’s the problem.

  115. 115.

    MazeDancer

    Criminal angle? Maybe some public official was covering up some meth lab and stopped? Easy target building with zero security. Event that would have been announced in advance.

    Certainly 3 trained guys with equipment who didn’t want to die seems kind of criminal. Otherwise, buying the vests and bullets would leave a trail. Everything would leave a trail with riled up haters.

  121. 121.

    trollhattan

    @Germy:
    Oh that’s just dandy. In response can this week premiere “Black Man Finally Takes Yer Gunz Friday”?

  125. 125.

    D58826

    @beth: AP and NBC reporting the same thing. They think they have the suspects cvornered with two down and the third returning fire

  126. 126.

    Amir Khalid

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
    Anyone here remember Rahinah Ibrahim, the Malaysian academician who was put on the no-fly list and sued to get off it? How your DHS pulled all kinds of shit when the case came to court, like preventing her American citizen daughter from flying to the US to testify? That no-fly list a problem in more than one way.

  128. 128.

    ? Martin

    Hard to tell from reports, but it sounds more like 5 suspects – 3 in one vehicle and 2 in another, but its easy to confuse these reports.

  129. 129.

    RaflW

    @eemom: Does that make me a bad person?

    A little bit. And yet totally understandable to me. Sometimes the temptation to meet big evil with a little of the same medicine is quite human a desire.

  130. 130.

    Brachiator

    Here’s the sad, terrible thing. The people who were hurt or killed:

    Kat Kit was waiting for her daughter to come out of routine surgery at Loma Linda University Medical Center when helicopters started unloading shooting victims and emergency workers began setting up triage areas.

    The scene, she said, was surreal.

    “I’m afraid, I’m scared and I’m sad,” said Kit, who lives in Fontana.

    Authorities say at least 14 people were killed and at least 14 others were wounded by up to three shooters.

    Nerves were high in the hospital’s waiting room.

    “They haven’t caught them yet,” said Linda Frankenbergen, who was waiting for her husband to come out of surgery.

    “And that’s scary,” Kit said, “because they could come in here.”

  132. 132.

    Arm The Homeless

    Anyone else hear that the truck had Utah plates? Rental?

    I sure hope this is their “spark”, it’s been a while since we got to flame-broil some sovereign morons.

  133. 133.

    Cermet

    A shoot out appears to be in progress or had been and looks like the black SUV is involved. Not sure. Anyone else seeing whats going on? maybe an officer down … could be a false event. confused

  136. 136.

    SatanicPanic

    @Cermet: they’re just standing there, waiting for something. I guess they don’t know if there’s someone still hiding in the car

  137. 137.

    Kathleen

    @Cermet: The police chief mentioned several times that the shooters “were on a mission” (in those exact words) and had carefully planned the attack.

  138. 138.

    Peale

    @? Martin: disgruntled employee or customer doesn’t make much sense if there’s three shooters. You’d have to be really fucked up to shoot up the workplace on behalf of a friend.

  140. 140.

    p.a.

    From LA Times:

    Keith Nelson, vice president of the Inland Regional Center’s Board of Trustees, said the shooting took place in building No. 3 on the campus.

    Building No. 3 is the only building on the campus that is open to the public and does not require a work badge to enter, Nelson said.

    The conference room, which holds up to 200 people, was decorated for a holiday party, said Marybeth Feild, board president and chief executive of the center.

  144. 144.

    Cermet

    Glad the officer is ok; hope this isn.t an innocent SUV …ugh. Still look like they are afraid of the SUV.

  148. 148.

    Cermet

    They say a suspect is down but don’t see proof. Shoots fired and they confirm a suspect shot …strange that they don’t know if this is the person of interest.

  149. 149.

    lamh36

    WesleyLowery 10s10 seconds ago Washington, DC
    Police now say 17 wounded, 14 dead in San Bernardino. “There is an active scene, there may be a suspect down.”

  153. 153.

    Davebo

    @Betty Cracker: Actually being on one of the many no fly lists doesn’t prevent you from getting on an airplane Betty.

    Which just shows how idiotic they are. I was suspicious but it wasn’t until a KLM clerk at AMS explained that my name was on the list however they’d modified their software to submit the proper paperwork immediately so I could board my flight home that I realized it.

  154. 154.

    p.a.

    Except to increase their cred, Daesh, Qaeda, Red fuckin Brigade, Bader Meinhoff, pick a boogey man, don’t need to run ops in the US. We’re doing their job for them. And a bang up job at that.

  155. 155.

    Cermet

    The black suv is pinned between two armored cars. They keep saying one of the attackers has been shot.

  156. 156.

    BBA

    I say you just round up all the white men in the country (including me), lock us all in a gulag and throw away the key. This would be easier than passing gun control.

  157. 157.

    Mike J

    Now saying only one guy in the SUV. Hope they got the right guy. I still remember LA cops shooting random pickups while chasing a cop killer.

  159. 159.

    blueskies

    @Tommy: My experience is just the opposite. I, too, am surrounded by gun owners, both friends and family. Just running through the numbers in my head quickly, exactly TWO out of dozens are safe. TWO.

    All the rest of them do stupid shit with guns and booze, guns and anger, guns and sloppiness. Now that I think on it, the Baby Jezuss must be looking out for them, because it’s a freakin’ miracle that only one of the them has been injured over the years and years and years of stoopid.

  160. 160.

    Lord Baldrick

    There are 300,000,000+ guns in the US – too many to ever take out of circulation.

    There is only one practical solution:

    BAN AMMO

    Ammo is not an ‘arm’ and is not covered by Scalia’s Second.

    Guns last for decades/centuries. Ammo does not.

    BAN AMMO

  161. 161.

    ? Martin

    @Peale: There have been instances of multiple family members going on a rage over a perceived offense to a child or loved one. But this is a hardcore ending – doesn’t sound like that kind of situation.

    I worry for the people living in the homes right there. When police freaked out over a couple delivering newspapers in the Chris Dorner manhunt, they put a ton of bullets into homes behind the vehicle. Thankfully nobody hurt, but it was at 4 or 5 am. Hell of a way to wake up.

  162. 162.

    ? Martin

    It looks like the driver got out and started shooting. There’s a picture of an assault rifle on the street opposite the SUV and I think they either shot or arrested that individual.

  163. 163.

    Cermet

    They are holding a very short distance from the SUV; acting like they believe it has a bomb and possibly a person still inside. Holding weapons on the SUV at near point blank range. Strange.

  164. 164.

    trollhattan

    @? Martin:
    These years later I’m still flabbergasted they emerged unscathed from that truck. The cops utterly ventilated it.

    Everybody should go back to revolvers.

  172. 172.

    lamh36

    SUV on MSNBC believes is from scene.

    3 men in vehicle. One person rolled out and arrested, and the other 2 open fire…one is dead, one is wounded.

    Per Pete Williams MSNBC just now on tv.

    Has anyone heard anything different?

  173. 173.

    scav

    @Mike J: There’ll be celebrations in the public-panic-free-publicity room at Gun Pushers Central. Good Guys with Guns, Bad Guys with Guns, it all translates to Good Sales For Guns.

  174. 174.

    Citizen_X

    @Mike J: It says it’s a “medical clinic,” not specifically a women’s clinic. Do you know otherwise? Because, Jesus Christ, don’t start alarming us with misinformation.

  175. 175.

    Really?

    Watching Al-Jazeera and their reporter says “Police say they’re not sure if this SUV is the one” or some such… Wow, that could be quite a mistake.

  177. 177.

    Mike J

    @Cermet: Just read on twitter that the clinic is saying the shooting, which was outside, was unrelated to them.

    Tom McKay ‏@thetomzone 2h2 hours ago Manhattan, NY
    Woman who answered phone at Clínica Hispana in Houston, Tx. assured me shooting today was not related to the clinic.

    A tweet from somebody I don’t know and a news report with practically no info, that’s everything I’ve heard about it.

  178. 178.

    Jeffro

    Obama- call out the National Guard to protect PP clinics and related sites. Protect Americans’ safety and rights!

  179. 179.

    different-church-lady

    @Citizen_X:

    Because, Jesus Christ, don’t start alarming us with misinformation.

    Yeah, leave that kind of stuff to the pros at cable news.

  181. 181.

    different-church-lady

    @Really?: What are the odds of them stumbling across the wrong SUV that was coincidentally filled with a perfectly innocent threesome bearing assault weapons?

  182. 182.

    goblue72

    @Mike J: The clinic is Clinica Hispana in Houston. Appears from their website that is a family health clinic and they have a women’s clinic providing OB-GYN, pregnancy and contraceptive services BUT DO NOT perform abortions.

    And the shooting was outside the clinic in a parking lot. Its quite easily unrelated generic street crime.

  185. 185.

    Mike J

    @Citizen_X:

    It says it’s a “medical clinic,” not specifically a women’s clinic. Do you know otherwise? Because, Jesus Christ, don’t start alarming us with misinformation.

    Houston Feminist on twitter characterized it as a women’s clinic.

    Their web site says one of their locations is/has a women’s center. The shooting was not at that location.

  187. 187.

    Cermet

    Witnesses claim the people in the SUV opened fire on the Cops so has to be the suspects. Not a mistake, at least …

  188. 188.

    goblue72

    @different-church-lady: This is America. Half the cars on the road are probably black SUVs. And a not immaterial number driven by people who are armed.

    But joking aside, agreed – can’t see it being anything but the suspects.

  190. 190.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @p.a.:

    Even if foreign terrorists run ops in the US, it ain’t going to be in San Bernardino. New York, Los Angeles, and MAYBE Chicago if they wanted to make some kind of “we can strike at the heartland” message.

    The Tsarnaev brothers may have wanted to see themselves as Islamic jihadists, but they were just another set of disgruntled homegrown terrorists who had more in common with Tim McVeigh than with Mohammad Atta.

  192. 192.

    goblue72

    @Lord Baldrick: Just because it won’t fix things immediately, is no reason not to start. Ban guns and start forcibly collecting them. Not all will get removed from circulation but LESS will be in circulation than today.

    Getting rid of half the guns is better than getting rid of none of them.

  194. 194.

    goblue72

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): If terrorists REALLY wanted to freak America out, they’d find some Mayberry type town in flyover country and stage a big attack.

    New York, LA, Chicago – for half of America those are just cesspools of libtards. And folks in those big cities almost expect it at this point, and typically seem to respond with a “Don’t mess with New York” or “Boston STRONG” type attitude. Its flyover country that flips out and insists we go bomb Iraq.

  196. 196.

    Germy

    Whatever happened to the highway sniper? They caught the guy who insisted they had the wrong guy, and then I lost track of the story. Did the sniping continue, or did they really get the right guy?

  197. 197.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @goblue72:

    That’s the point, though — only people who live in the US realize that places other than LA and NYC exist. No foreign terrorist is going to fly into LAX and sit in traffic for three hours to shoot up San Bernardino.

  199. 199.

    Thoughtful Today

    …

    There is NO “peak wingnut”.

    The assumption that crazy can’t get crazier is … crazy.

  200. 200.

    Germy

    UPDATE:6:38 p.m. Live footage shows SWAT teams converging on a stationary, shot-up black SUV in San Bernadino. According to police, it is the escape vehicle from the earlier mass shooting. One person within the vehicle “rolled out” and surrendered to authorities, they report. Two men in the vehicle opened fire, one was reportedly shot and killed, and the other taken into custody.

  203. 203.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    “Active shooter” sticks in my craw. Like they’re playing a lively game of basketball. It’s so slangy and indirect. Call it murder because that’s what it is.

  204. 204.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @goblue72: The statistical evidence strongly suggests that the effect on gun deaths of getting the number of guns out of circulation that is anywhere near politically feasible would be pretty small. Changes at the margins of where we are now aren’t very significant; the reason you get different answers on whether or not the number of guns in different parts of the U.S. is correlated with additional gun deaths is that all of them cluster close to, but on either side of, zero. To make a real impact, you’d have to come a lot closer to European levels of gun ownership than is really possible.

    Given that, I’m highly skeptical that this is the issue we should be spending our political capital on. In a world in which what you can accomplish is limited, there are much better prospects for making people’s lives better by concentrating on other issues. That doesn’t mean stop talking about it, because it’s possible that sufficient attitude changes could occur to make serious gun control possible.

  205. 205.

    D58826

    Fortunately Mike Hucklebee has explained it all. The facility today was a gun free zone therefore the victims are at fault for their own deaths. I’m so glad that we have such wonderful Christians running for president..

  206. 206.

    goblue72

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: In politics, you have to start somewhere. So you start by reducing gun ownership by X%. Then you take another pass, and reduce it more, then more, then more.

    Its incremental and it takes time and discipline. And you don’t get there overnight. But you have to start somewhere.

  207. 207.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @goblue72: Yes, and I would rather start by focusing on income inequality. Your incremental changes aren’t free or easy, and you didn’t actually address the point that there are better ways to spend the effort.

  208. 208.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): More in common with the Columbine shooters, IMO.

    Tamarlan targeted a sporting event because he was angry about what happened to his career. He committed murder prior to that (it is now believed) because the victims supposedly sold his little brother weed. Dylan and Eric all over again….

  209. 209.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Income inequality is almost an independent variable to this mass murder shit. You’re only going to bring gun deaths down by reeling in the black market guns … not to mention the EZ no waiting period supply of mass armaments to people seeking permanent solutions to temporary problems.

    If the economy were kinder maybe there would be a few less family annihilations and so on, but all the data I’ve ever seen indicates that gun control is a first order measure and the economy is pretty distant as a factor.

  210. 210.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @Another Holocene Human: I’m not claiming that reducing inequality will reduce gun deaths. I’m claiming that focusing on income inequality will do more to help people than will the same amount of effort spent trying to reduce the number of guns in U.S. society. Unless you think political capital is infinite, you have to create priorities, and the evidence is that gun control could suck up a huge amount of effort with insignificant benefits.

  211. 211.

    prob50

    I understand the need or desire to approach this terrible shit with levity. Indeed, sometimes we need it to lighten the pain and despair this type of carnage foments. But right now I’m having trouble getting in the spirit. My funny bone wanted to play but I just told it to STFU and go to it’s room.

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