Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

An unpunished coup is a training exercise.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Cole, when it comes to calico cats, restraint is overrated.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Cole is on a roll !

Elections aren’t won by handwringing, cowering, and/or bashing your own candidates.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

The gop couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

The US Supreme Court is on the ballot in november.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Motown is Joe-Town!

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

There’s always a light at the end of the frog.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

If marriage is the equivalent of selling yourself into slavery, women with self respect should reject the offer.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

You are here: Home / Music / Sunday Morning Open Thread: Happy Hanukkah!

Sunday Morning Open Thread: Happy Hanukkah!

by | 163 Comments

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Yeah, the holiday doesn’t officially start until sunset, but who knows how much news will be happening then? Meanwhile, candles against the darkness, sweets, potato pancakes, community — what’s not to like?

As for my choice of music, could be much worse, per NPR:

… On Saturday, the eve of Hanukkah, NPR’s Scott Simon took the opportunity to open up the songbook with Josh Kun, co-founder of the Idelsohn Society for Musical Preservation…

“It’s funny, you know, my relationship to Hannukah songs really comes through — I guess what you could say the back door, but maybe it’s the front door — of Christmas songs. So first, like, my favorite Jewish Hanukkah songs are actually some of the greatest Christmas songs that have been written by Jews … like kind of, oh, all of them? “[I’m Dreaming of a] White Christmas,” “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” — most of the great English-language pop Christmas songs were written by American Jews. Some of the greatest Christmas albums are, of course, Christmas albums by American Jews like Barbra [Streisand], Neil [Diamond], Barry [Manilow] and the like….”

Reader Interactions

163Comments

  1. 1.

    Jerzy Russian

    I think it is also nearly time for Sinterklaas in Holland. Christ, where has the year gone?

  3. 3.

    Keith G

    On average, this week has been 10 deg cooler than last year at this time.

    This trend is forecast to continue for at least the next 7 days. So, I am loving the (nearly) cold weather and the short span of daylight. The proper mood is perfectly being set.

  5. 5.

    Keith G

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Except that for that one weekend in May when we got several months worth of rain all in 48 hours….and the near repeat of that in October.

    Interestingly, many more of the “common folks” down here will acknowledge anthropogenic climate change. They are wary of the possible remedies and that is egged on by the people who have an industrial interest in doing nothing.

    But, my interest and intention today is to quickly get work done at the café so I can get home and enjoy cool weather cuddle time with the girls (the two cats who run my home).

  6. 6.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Keith G: What is this rain you speak of? I’ve heard that, yes, it will cost too much to do anything about climate change. So we just wait for the sea to envelop us. My house is also run by two girls, the canine variety.

  10. 10.

    Keith G

    FWIW, my neighborhood is about 45 ft.

    Well, there is a very large Hobart mixer across the kitchen that just timed out of the job it was doing. I need to get back at it. Fresh backed goods at “my place” in an hour or so. All are welcome.

  14. 14.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    Just got home Saturday from 4 tough days working in Canada. First thing I learned was that my great-uncle Richard had died. I just saw him at Thanksgiving. He was 84 years old, and my 98 year old Grandma’s baby brother. They lived in the same senior care center. Grandma’s still regaining her strength from a broken hip, and losing Rich is going to hit her hard. It’s a sad day.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    @Keith G: Lucky — it’s still in the high 70s / low 80s here, and will remain so all week. It’s supposed to be a little bit cooler.

  20. 20.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    @Baud:
    Thanks. The funeral will be a mob scene. He was a Korean war vet and active in the VFW and Legion. Had 4 kids, 14 grandkids and 17 great-grands. I knew this year would be a tough one. So many people in my family in their 80s and 90s. You know it’s gonna happen but the blow still lands hard.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    Had 4 kids, 14 grandkids and 17 great-grands.

    That’s great. I wish I could have grandkids. Most of your family seems like they’ve had good long lives. What more can you ask for?

  26. 26.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    @Baud:
    Indeed. That root of my ancestry is free of any inherited tendency to disease. They pretty much keep running until they fade out in their 80s or 90s.
    He’ll be buried in the same cemetery where we visited my mother’s grave (other root) last month. It’s a nice spot that’s been collecting the remains of my mother’s and father’s families back to the 19th century.

  31. 31.

    Kay

    I’m getting the Christmas tree today. I buy it from the Lions – it’s their big fundraiser. I also have to get a stocking for my (new) son in law because they’re staying here for Christmas. In order to hang that stocking on the available hangers I have to remove my eldest son’s, but he and his wife go to Denmark for Christmas and have for the last 2 years so I have to bump him. I told him and he feigned outrage but he knew I wasn’t going to hold that slot forever! :)

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MattF: An old South side buddy of mine’s favorite curse was “Fuck you, you fucking fuck!” What Matt lacked in eloquence he more than made up for with vehemence.

  37. 37.

    Marc

    This year I’m getting eight gifts from Cards Against Humanity, as part of this years Holiday B******t promotion. Yesterday I received a sensible pair of socks – just like the first gift (received Friday), save the fist had a menorah with two candles lit embroidered on them and the latest pair has threelit. I have a feeling I know what the next gift I’ll receive will be…

  38. 38.

    Central Planning

    It’s unseasonably warm here in Rochester. No temperatures below 32F forecast for the next 10 days. I suspect we’ll be having a brown Christmas this year.

    My 14yo daughter swore she would rake the rest of the leaves and get them to the curb. That hasn’t happened. “What leaves are you talking about? I don’t see any!”. Oy!

  40. 40.

    Kay

    I hope Ted Cruz wins the nom because he’s so creepy – staging his family like this is just weird:

    “Thanks to the (few) rules governing campaign Super PACs, candidates aren’t technically allowed to coordinate with them. Which means candidates can’t technically feed them hours and hours of raw video footage for future campaign ads. Candidates can however, casually leave them on a neglected YouTube account for Super PACs to find. And thank god they can, because Ted Cruz did.”

  42. 42.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Cruz seems like the type of dad you’d see as the star of a 1950’s family sitcom if it were directed by Tim Burton.

  45. 45.

    Amir Khalid

    @debbie:
    If President Ted carpet-bombs ISIS’ stomping grounds in Iraq and the Levant, he will kill many of them, but also far more of their victims. He will destroy infrastructure that will take decades to rebuild. He will make “America” one of the Devil’s many names in those parts. And, as you say, he won’t succeed in eliminating them.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    We’re bombing the hell out of ISIS and have been for months, but obviously we’re not going to let facts get in the way of GOP politicking.

    Congress has done their usual complete and utter abdication of their duties and has not actually debated or voted on this bombing campaign, so the next thing we’ll hear is about how the executive is over-reaching by conducting what is a war without Congressional involvement.

    Congress is broken and no one in political media wants to admit it, so we’ll continue to focus on the President as if he’s a king, and power fills a void, so the President will act more and more like a king. Congress likes it that way.

  53. 53.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    By the way, did the vote to unionize at VW in Tennessee surprise you? I think it might be the beginning of the end of Redness in labor, but I might also be overly hopeful.

  56. 56.

    p.a.

    @debbie: Hello? Linky? That’s good news, even better, unexpected good news. Is the governor threatening to cut the water and utilities to the plant off?

  57. 57.

    Botsplainer

    My feeling is that a Ted Cruz presidency will bring about some form of nuclear devastation in Washington DC and lower Manhattan by improvised devices, as well as an attempted USAF coup that has to be put down by the Navy and Marines. That will be followed by economic collapse, an internationally-policed demilitarization and partial occupation.

    Bibi will be the one to set it off with the heartfelt backing of Cruz. If he isn’t turned into radioactive dust when his government collapses under combined assault,, his head will be rolling around in some dusty square in such surviving Arab or Iranian city that becomes a temporary capital of a unified Muslim polity.

  58. 58.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    @debbie:

    By the way, did the vote to unionize at VW in Tennessee surprise you? I think it might be the beginning of the end of Redness in labor, but I might also be overly hopeful.

    It’s my understanding that unionization was a VW management priority. VW has union involvement on the board, so they were motivated to bring a union to the table here. That makes VW somewhat unique because of German attitudes to labor.
    I’ve been in and out of a couple of VW plants in North America and I can say from sad experience that the workplace conditions that US workers enjoy because of union power are not shared by their brethren to the south.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    It didn’t really “surprise” me because I know they never give up. You know only skilled trades voted, right? That’s a “micro union”. It’s 11% of the workers. It’s a win but I noticed conservatives are playing it up and labor is downplaying it, probably because they know conservatives will use it as a rallying cry “they’re invading the south!”

    I think it’s kind of sad, but maybe typical, that the people who make the higher wages and have more job security voted to unionize while the really vulnerable people did not.

    RTW is dead in Ohio, so that’s good. They had to put it to a vote in the lower chamber because that’s what the rules dictate, but they’re afraid of the kind of backlash they got with Senate Bill 5 and they don’t want that in an election year.

  60. 60.

    rikyrah

    OT:

    I call it Southern Strategy without the dogwhistles…but, whatever floats your boat. It’s still CLINGING TO THE WHITENESS.

    Nick TimiraosVerified account
    ‏@NickTimiraos
    Behind Trump’s surge: a new brand of secular populism that appeals to blue collar voters http://on.wsj.com/1HLY8UU

  61. 61.

    p.a.

    Skilled trade workers only:

    The workers who specialize in repairing and maintaining machinery and robots at the German automaker’s factory in Chattanooga voted 108-44, or 71 percent, to have the UAW negotiate collective bargaining deals on their behalf.
    The vote comes nearly 20 months after the union was narrowly defeated in an election involving all hourly plant employees.

    From Detroit News

  62. 62.

    p.a.

    @Kay:

    That’s a “micro union”. It’s 11% of the workers.

    On the bright side, the 89% get to keep their guns and their faith the Jebus lets them win the lottery.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: Meanwhile, as Europeans are “lining up*” for the opportunity to drop some more meaningless bombs on already destroyed ISIL targets, our “Arab allies**” are shifting their resources to Yemen and or holding them back because Syria is now nothing more than a complete clusterfvck:

    Europe joins Obama’s air war in Syria as Arab partners quietly stand down

    *last week the French sent out to bombing forays

    ** the phrase “Arab Allies” is a contradiction in terms.

  66. 66.

    Chris

    @Botsplainer:
    My feeling is that a Ted Cruz presidency will bring about some form of nuclear devastation in Washington DC and lower Manhattan by improvised devices, as well as an attempted USAF coup that has to be put down by the Navy and Marines. That will be followed by economic collapse, an internationally-policed demilitarization and partial occupation.

    I could see Ted Blofeld-Cruz instigating a nuclear war with the thought that it’ll mostly be the cities and not the heartland that’s targeted in the counterstrike. Especially if the war is with a country that only has a limited number of nukes (i.e. not Russia) and therefore can’t actually carpet-nuke the entire U.S.A.

    Is it bad that when I get to the end of Independence Day nowadays, my thought is “oh fucking shit, now we’re going to have to recover from the worst attack in world history with a government that’ll be controlled by Republicans for at least the next two generations?”

  68. 68.

    Kay

    @p.a.:

    It’s good they’ve been forced to get really creative, though. I wish they could get thru to people that if a labor union negotiates a good deal for a segment it’s a new ceiling, and a new ceiling benefits every single person in that sector. That “free rider” thing is real. Non union benefit from a unionized segment. My middle son was working for a non-union employer here and they had to respond to higher wages in the unionized plants that surrounded them. He didn’t stay because he got an apprenticeship with a union but he would have – it was a “good job”- training, high hourly wage, benefits. If they didn’t have to offer that here to get and retain people they wouldn’t.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    This.

    It’s tempting to say “when you fight them they back off!” but of course the key to that is you have to win and not every state has a referendum process and that was an exceptionally well-run campaign :)

    I hope it’s true and they’re just bullshitting their donors with the vote. It really could hurt them though and they are desperate to not just carry the state in the Prez election but also retain the Senate seat.

  70. 70.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Mr IOL has Fox on in the other room. I don’t know how he stands it. They are so obsessed with Obama that he’s all they can talk about, no matter what the story is ostensibly about.

  71. 71.

    rikyrah

    Why this single mother of 3 moved her family to the UAE

    By Monica Leftwich December 3

    Rarely do you hear about a newly divorced mother relocating to the Middle East for a new life. But that’s what Tanai Benard, 32, did two years ago, when she and her three children moved to Abu Dhabi.

    The move had been a dream that the Texas mother and her then-husband had — before he backed out. Benard filed for divorce shortly before boarding a plane for the United Arab Emirates.

    So I wondered: How does a single mom make it work in a new country? I chatted with her over Skype recently. Here’s a lightly edited transcript of our conversation.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2015/12/03/why-this-single-mother-of-3-moved-her-family-to-the-uae/

  73. 73.

    WereBear

    Had fun yesterday: got a Sinatra button from our local music store, celebrating his 100th. So at an event I was attending for work, an older lady leaned close and said she liked it, she was a fan. I said it was because of his 100th and she lit up, so I got to say:

    “Ring a ding ding!”

    She dissolved in giggles. Sometimes you get a golden opportunity…

  74. 74.

    D58826

    @debbie: He also said that we will see if the sand glows in the dark, which seems to be an allusion to nuclear weapons.
    In the meantime Rubio wants American ground troops in the Middle East as part of an US/ARAB coalition to fight ISIS. Not holding my breath on the Arab part. He also defended his vote against linking the no fly list with background checks. According to Rubio, and others, most of the people on the list have done nothing wrong so it would be unfair to deny them the right to but a gun. Which begs the question if people on the list have done nothing wrong then why are they even on the list?

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Salon is out-Saloning itself this go around

    Just let the Republicans win: Maybe things need to get really bad before America wakes up
    A GOP victory would bring disaster. Perhaps that’s necessary to destroy their credibility — and wake up Democrats
    SHANE RYAN

  76. 76.

    p.a.

    @Kay: My union accepted 2 tier wage/benny agreement and medical premiums in 2012. It’s the beginning of the end: newbies aren’t going to strike to preserve benefits they don’t get. The feeling at the time was, if we went out we’d never get back. I retired 2/2015. Contract expired 8/2015. They’ve been working sans contract since then. Little movement. No contract = no raises, no grievance/arbitration procedures; discipline is at the discretion of the company. They haven’t yet cut off medical but it’s an option. That would = strike.

  80. 80.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    It’s also that the GOP legislators are idiots and don’t see the harm in what they’re doing by bringing RTW back up again. It must be killing Kasich to see this starting up again, but it will be fun watching. I wonder how Kasich will deal with confronting numerous versions of himself (My way or…).

  81. 81.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @p.a.: Yeah, but people need to remember that when things get worse, sometimes the “bottom” is the hole they lower your coffin into.

  82. 82.

    D58826

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I read the entire article. It was a justification for why progressives should sit out the election in 2016 and let Hillary lose. Progressives then can regroup and build a winning platform for 2020. It seems Hillary isn’t ‘pure’ enough. Does that make her a DINO? Anyway what he seems to miss is if the GOP takes the White House in 2016 they will probably be able to put 2-3 very young and very conservative justices on the Supreme Court as well as the lower courts It will be a rerun of the Lochner era in which the rights of the 1% will rule supreme. It won’t matter whither the progressive legislation comes from a state or the federal government it will be declared unconstitutional. And that is assuming there will be federal or state progressive legislation even passed. With the GOP in control of the federal government what little voting rights enforcement that is being done will disappear. As to the voters realizing that the GOP is a disaster just look at Wisc. Kansas, Fla. and Maine. All of these retrograde governors were reelected. Only Pa. threw out the reactionary governor but the state legislature is still controlled by the reactionaries. Two weeks ago the voters in Kentucky voted to deprive themselves of medical care. A GOP victory in 2016 will roll back most of the 20th century progress that progressive fraught for. Sitting out the election because Hillary isn’t GOOD enough will cement GOP control for a generation or more since they will do their level best to see that the progressive vote is minimized.

  84. 84.

    Botsplainer

    @Chris:

    Is it bad that when I get to the end of Independence Day nowadays, my thought is “oh fucking shit, now we’re going to have to recover from the worst attack in world history with a government that’ll be controlled by Republicans for at least the next two generations?”

    Republican intransigence would be mitigated by massive infrastructure builds, shovel-ready full employment, defense buildup directed toward space defense, absorption of alien technology and the utter end to God-bothering (as the alien invasion ended any notion of current human theology for the vast majority).

  91. 91.

    Relax

    Jeb doing the Sunday Show rounds this morning–starting with George Stephanopolous. This will be in preparation for the new Jeb informercial that will be up and on the air in New Hampshire this week. Smiling knowingly while saying “Donald Trump will not be the nominee”. Knowingly, mind you.

    Word is if this works we’re going to buy a full hour of primetime, broadcast TV to do an even bigger infomercial on NH TV, starting with the Boston market. That’s right, one full hour, PRIMETIME , all Jeb and nothing but Jeb.

    We’re going to carpet bomb the shit out of the airwaves. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

  93. 93.

    shell

    @Iowa Old Lady: Its like developing a leak in your roof, but your husband is reluctant to spend the money to fix it. So you think,”Okay, let it just get worse till the ceiling caves in and then he’ll finally agree to fix it.”
    That makes just as much logical sense.

  94. 94.

    Peale

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: since they now run that same article every week in one form or another, I’m guessing it’s either the only topic that gets clicks there these days. Or “oblivion” is the new editorial stance at Salon.

  95. 95.

    Relax

    BTW, the big donors are still fully onboard. They are going “all-in” for Jeb and deeply believe he gives the GOP the best chance for victory in November. As long as the billionaires keeps that cool hard cash flowing, Jeb is in it to win it.

  96. 96.

    Glidwrith

    @rikyrah: I can’t hope for a Cruz nomination-he strikes me as truly evil. Trump is a dumbshit who has no knowledge of the workings of government. Cruz is part of the system and would be Cheney unbound.

  98. 98.

    Iowa Old Lady

    I know there’s no such thing as peak wingnut, but you have to admit right-wing rhetoric is already pretty close to hitting bottom. We don’t need to have that rhetoric put into action.

    I’ve said before that the third party voters are like anti-vaxxers, preserving their own purity and letting the rest of us provide herd immunity (though the election of W shows that plan sometimes fails). The “let it hit bottom” rhetoric is worse than that because it doesn’t even hope for the rest of us to save the situation.

  99. 99.

    scav

    Nothing is more convincing and beguiling than putting out the leftovers from dishes no one wanted in the first place on the table again and again, with nothing else on the table for hours on end. There’ll be a little amusement when he begins to get all moldy about the edges: we can run a pool as to whether he’ll go green or that fuzzy white first. Long-shot the slimy red-orange.

  100. 100.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Iowa Old Lady: Oh, there’s so much worse it could get. I haven’t seen anyone directly urging people to murder their neighbors yet, and the calls for mass extermination in death camps are still pretty fringe.

  101. 101.

    D58826

    @Matt McIrvin: This argument may have made some sense back in the day of Rockefeller/Eisenhower/Howard Baker style republicans but not today. To allow the current GOP to gain control of the WH is just turning the entire country over to the 21st century version of the ‘let them eat cake’ French nobility of the 1780’s.

  102. 102.

    Germy

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think we need to start asking ourselves whether a Republican ratfucking campaign is paying Salon to run these articles. Because it’s just too consistent.

    That was my first reaction, because of something I saw on LGM about American Crossroads dumping money in an “Attack HRC From the Left” sockpuppet scheme.

  103. 103.

    Keith G

    @Iowa Old Lady: I will go you one further. Those who say “Let things get worse” are those folks who will be insulated from the effects of those things that will get worse. One of the reasons there is such a lack of common sense in many of our democratic political types and the younger liberal, leftist, and/or democratic types in the media is their upbringing and life experience. Many of them are just too damn well off.

    When I was a pup, national reporters had usually put their time in working union jobs in small town and city newspapers. They understood labor issues and they understood bare-knuckle politics very well. During that same time, as often as not, politicians had grown up cutting their political teeth in neighborhood wards and city council elections eventually working their way on the state politics.

    I value a good education, but my god we don’t need any more political writers having English degrees from Harvard or Yale. And I have noticed that even in some local political races, there are candidates who instead of growing up through the local political process are businessmen with Ivy League degrees condescending to help the little people run their government as well as supply regulatory relief and economical succor to whatever business interests they are associated with.

  104. 104.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:
    @D58826:

    I’m at the point where, if the author if one of those pieces “from the left” is white, I just presume they are content with the GOP’s racial policies. Possibly oversimplified, but they don’t deserve any greater consideration.

  105. 105.

    Amir Khalid

    @Peale:
    There’s also a Hillarista piece they rewrite every week as a sort of counterbalance to the Bernista piece. Between them the two pieces seem like a repetitious argument between two people who aren’t listening to each other.

  106. 106.

    ? Martin

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Maybe things need to get really bad before America wakes up

    I’m sure the same argument was offered in Germany around 1928. The argument presumes that most voters would be disgusted by the results, but there’s little evidence to support that.

  107. 107.

    D58826

    We should also remember the last two times that the democrats nominated a very liberal candidate for president. Mondale and McGovern didn’t turn out real well. It seem that Americans like their social safety net programs but they don’t want o make it look like they do.

  108. 108.

    Germy

    @Amir Khalid: There was a time when I found SALON valuable. Lately, they make me pissed off at myself for falling for their clickbaity titles that have nothing to do with the articles, or ridiculous essays like “Let the GOP win, and wreck things so bad the pendulum will swing back towards a utopia.”

  109. 109.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Iowa Old Lady: as Joe Conason explained, or tried to, to Bill Maher, Ralph Nader (ETA: That should be Michael Moore, talking about Nader) and Susan Sarandon in 2000, to you there’s not a dime’s worth of difference cause you got lots of dimes.

    @Peale: I almost miss the days of Camille Paglia, who at least brought some freak-show levels of absurdity to her rants.

  112. 112.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: Cruz seems like the type of dad you’d see as the star of a 1950’s family sitcom if it were directed by Tim Burton.

    Or John Waters

  114. 114.

    Peale

    I learned that if one puts ones Fitbit next to a table fan, the vibrations from the fan can be recorded as steps. Either that or I walked 21 miles in my sleep last night.

  119. 119.

    Amir Khalid

    From Salon’s Bernista piece:

    But consider this: What if we didn’t vote, and Hillary lost as a result? Like it or not, that makes a profound statement. It would likely force the Democratic party to move left on economic issues and, fearing another schism, throw its weight behind a far more progressive candidate in 2020.

    I think it would more likely bring the Democratic party to conclude that it can’t count on progressives, and thus to cling even more tightly to the centre.

  121. 121.

    Baud

    @Amir Khalid: FWIW, if Bernie gets the nomination, I expect Salon to run piece after piece from women who say the Democratic Party betrayed them and doesn’t deserve our vote. Whatever it takes to get clicks.

  123. 123.

    JMG

    Hillary Clinton as a Senator and candidate has been pretty solidly in the middle of the Democratic mainstream. There were few Obama voters in 2008 who wouldn’t have supported her had she won the nomination.
    My only worry about her is that she might be unable or unwilling to resist pressure to create another Middle East ground war. The American people would be in favor of that for about three weeks. Then the war wasn’t over, the Democrats would get the blame for the quagmire.

  124. 124.

    ? Martin

    @Amir Khalid: Yeah, great plan – further reduce voter turnout so that special interests can play an even larger role in who gets elected. I’m sure that’ll reliably work out in favor of the most liberal candidate.

  126. 126.

    Matt McIrvin

    @? Martin:

    I’m sure the same argument was offered in Germany around 1928.

    It’s actually one of the most famous examples. “Nach Hitler, uns!”

    …though that was in 1933 after he’d actually taken power, so they may have just been trying to put the best face on things.

  128. 128.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Amir Khalid: What this would do, more likely than not, is to guarantee that the Democrats would never win political office again. The GOP would make damned sure of that.

  129. 129.

    GregB

    @Relax:

    My Father was complaining that he could not watch his sports scores this morning because there was a half an hour Bush infomercial on “fer Chrissakes!”.

    Watching Trumps spokesperson Pierson on CNN and she was just a master at horseshit, obfuscation and attack.

    The country is really descending into a new level of madness. There’s that wingnut politician celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace with a Christmas card showing his whole family displaying their various types of weaponry and then there is Erick Erickson so unhinged that he’s shooting up NY Times editorials and displaying the photos of such.

    All the King’s horses and all the King’s men don’t know how to put things back together.

    Too bad they didn’t decide to throw all of this money at the workers and citizens.

  131. 131.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Anyone else thinking this line doesn’t have quite the oomph Jeb! thought it would?

    Sam Stein ‏@ samsteinhp 1h1 hour ago
    “A caliphate the size of Indiana” – Jeb, describing ISIS.

  132. 132.

    WereBear

    @Amir Khalid: I think it would more likely bring the Democratic party to conclude that it can’t count on progressives, and thus to cling even more tightly to the centre.

    I agree. That is basically what happens when progressives don’t turn out. If you don’t vote, you are invisible.

    I see this as the dark side of Identity Politics. If the candidate isn’t just like you, too many “yous” pout and act like it is a consumer transaction, where the magical market will listen to them and supply a sparklier, more unicorn-friendly, version.

  133. 133.

    J R in WV

    .
    .
    .

    But who will sit through a 15 minute infomercial about !Jeb?? Much less an hour long TV show starring – !Jeb??

    I can barely stand a 30 second commercial without either cutting off the TV tuner app, running the volume to near zero, or clicking on a web page leaving the TV tuner buzzing aimlessly behind the web browser.

    And I watched some of that Ted Cruz bulk tape, about 4 minutes of !!! 16 hours!!! OMG it was horrible.

    “Hug again, a little longer this time.” or “Tell him “You’re my best friend, almost!”” hearing the direction and script prompting in the background made it so obviously real that it was completely and totaly false! And how phony Cruz and his whole personality really is!

    Wow. And TRump. You just can’t say how bad what Trump is saying is – it’s past description. Evil, immoral, bullying, short-sighted, arrogant, falsehood, and cocky in all the wrong ways.

  135. 135.

    p.a.

    @Amir Khalid: The Democratic Party doesn’t count on or discount progressives. It doesn’t like them. The Democratic Party is feckless. For every Warren there’s a dozen Rahms. Bernie isn’t at home in the Dem Party. He just has to run as a Dem. Look at the Dem machines in NY and Mass. If there were any opportunity for progressive dominance it would be there. A Cuomo? Albany? Hah! Mass is better, but the party keeps throwing up hacks to run for Gov and losing to Repubs, albeit kinda sorta Rockefeller Repubs.

  136. 136.

    Anoniminous

    @? Martin:

    It was. The German Communist Party, under orders from Stalin, rejected an offer from the Social Democrats to form an Anti-Nazi alliance because Fascism was late-stage Capitalism that could only be imposed for a brief time before the proletariat rose to their historic role of overthrowing Capitalism and instituting Socialism.

  139. 139.

    debbie

    @D58826:

    Sitting out the election because Hillary isn’t GOOD enough…

    There are those in the Tea Party saying the same thing if Bush is the nominee. Why anyone would willingly let their country and fellow Americans suffer for another 8 years is beyond me.

  140. 140.

    scav

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “A caliphate the size of Indiana” – Jeb, describing ISIS.

    Well, that would just bring them to parity with Indiana (land of the flak-jacketed open-air markets of xianian tolerance and safety — with pizza pieties!).

  141. 141.

    MattF

    @J R in WV: I just called my sister to wish her a happy birthday– and she mentioned that one of her oldest and dearest friends has become a Trump fan. She said “I had to restrain myself from leaning over the table and throttling her.”

  143. 143.

    Anoniminous

    Next time someone asks me how the Germans were so stupid and callous to support Hitler I’m going to point at Trump.

  145. 145.

    p.a.

    @Baud: Well, Uncle Joe may have been wrong on the mechanics, but it only took 12 years to spread Socialism over large swaths of Europe, and another 4 years for China. And 50-80 million deaths, but Uncle Joe was a big-picture guy.

  149. 149.

    WereBear

    @p.a.: Karl Marx was wrong about many things, but his seminal philosophy was utterly irresitible to feudal populations under pressure to modernize.

    While unworkable in long-term practice, communism has the virtue of simplicity and fairness. It’s easy to discuss and has a direct emotional appeal.

    And it is no wonder than countries with a long history of some form of monarchy would, in times of crisis, cling to the Strong Man who makes promises that appeal to them. The colonies wanted to crown George Washington. Fortunately, he had no direct heirs, and he was an incredible man who refused, thus setting a democratic precedent.

    We are living through a global upheaval the like of which has only happened a few times before, like the long death throes of the Roman Empire and the social earthquakes of the Reformation.

    Gutenberg II, Electric Boogaloo.

  150. 150.

    p.a.

    @MattF: Yes. They and the German capitalists thought they were using him. Oopsie. Nazi electoral growth had plateaued. Didn’t seem they would gain power democratically as the Italian Fascists had. German conservatives were a great help.

  151. 151.

    Anoniminous

    @WereBear:

    A lot. The depressing political history of the last years of the Wiemar Republic is only surpassed by the depressing economic and political-economic history of the last years of the Wiemar Republic. Nazi vote peaked at 37% in the July election of 1932, fell to 33% in the November election and that was the last one before Hitler was name chancellor and started his “palace coup” (kinda).

  153. 153.

    Anoniminous

    @WereBear:

    If I was a Chinese peasant unable to feed my family because the local landlord and warlord were taking 80% of the rice I grew for rent and taxes and my youngest daughter was kidnapped to serve as a sex slave I’d listen *really hard* when the Communist Party organizers came around.

  156. 156.

    FlipYrWhig

    @p.a.: Why it’s almost as though the number of progressives in America is smaller than the number of moderates and that the composition and policy priorities of the Democratic Party reflect a compromise between progressives and moderates!

  157. 157.

    Ruckus

    @GregB:
    Too bad they didn’t decide to throw all of this money at the workers and citizens.
    They could just pay the taxes that would support a vibrant economy and society and it would be less than they are paying towards winning politically and the cost of hiding the rest so they don’t have to pay taxes. But of course then they couldn’t be bullies and have a huge poor class to lord it over. Can’t have that.

  158. 158.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    @Keith G:

    True fact — in the 1990s, the Los Angeles Times required its staff writers to have a masters degree in journalism, and I’m pretty sure the requirement continued to these days of mass layoffs and buyouts at the paper. My MFA in screenwriting is looking like a better bargain than the MAs in journalism some of my college newspaper colleagues got.

  161. 161.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    awe, you have Christmas stocking slots…that’s so sweet (not being snarky, because we never hung them as a child, and I always wanted to)

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