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You are here: Home / Music / Sunday Morning Open Thread: Happy Hanukkah!

Sunday Morning Open Thread: Happy Hanukkah!

by Anne Laurie|  December 6, 20155:03 am| 163 Comments

This post is in: Music, Open Threads, Religion

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Yeah, the holiday doesn’t officially start until sunset, but who knows how much news will be happening then? Meanwhile, candles against the darkness, sweets, potato pancakes, community — what’s not to like?

As for my choice of music, could be much worse, per NPR:

… On Saturday, the eve of Hanukkah, NPR’s Scott Simon took the opportunity to open up the songbook with Josh Kun, co-founder of the Idelsohn Society for Musical Preservation…

“It’s funny, you know, my relationship to Hannukah songs really comes through — I guess what you could say the back door, but maybe it’s the front door — of Christmas songs. So first, like, my favorite Jewish Hanukkah songs are actually some of the greatest Christmas songs that have been written by Jews … like kind of, oh, all of them? “[I’m Dreaming of a] White Christmas,” “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” — most of the great English-language pop Christmas songs were written by American Jews. Some of the greatest Christmas albums are, of course, Christmas albums by American Jews like Barbra [Streisand], Neil [Diamond], Barry [Manilow] and the like….”

Started a new Hanukkah tradition this year where I hang up the phone on my dad because he says he likes Marco Rubio.

— OhNoSheTwitnt (@OhNoSheTwitnt) December 6, 2015

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Previous Post: « Late Night “Clowns with Guns & the Clowns Who Manipulate Them” Open Thread
Next Post: Some Happy News »

Reader Interactions

163Comments

  1. 1.

    Jerzy Russian

    December 6, 2015 at 5:30 am

    I think it is also nearly time for Sinterklaas in Holland. Christ, where has the year gone?

  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2015 at 6:08 am

    How do you say “Bah! Humbug!” in Yiddish?

  3. 3.

    Keith G

    December 6, 2015 at 6:12 am

    On average, this week has been 10 deg cooler than last year at this time.

    This trend is forecast to continue for at least the next 7 days. So, I am loving the (nearly) cold weather and the short span of daylight. The proper mood is perfectly being set.

  4. 4.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 6, 2015 at 6:18 am

    @Keith G: Obviously this means that climate change is a liberal hoax.

  5. 5.

    Keith G

    December 6, 2015 at 6:36 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Except that for that one weekend in May when we got several months worth of rain all in 48 hours….and the near repeat of that in October.

    Interestingly, many more of the “common folks” down here will acknowledge anthropogenic climate change. They are wary of the possible remedies and that is egged on by the people who have an industrial interest in doing nothing.

    But, my interest and intention today is to quickly get work done at the café so I can get home and enjoy cool weather cuddle time with the girls (the two cats who run my home).

  6. 6.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 6, 2015 at 6:39 am

    @Keith G: What is this rain you speak of? I’ve heard that, yes, it will cost too much to do anything about climate change. So we just wait for the sea to envelop us. My house is also run by two girls, the canine variety.

  7. 7.

    Keith G

    December 6, 2015 at 6:50 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: You may be okay after the seas rise, as you are surrounded by hills, yes? Speaking of which, you are up early.

  8. 8.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 6, 2015 at 6:53 am

    @Keith G: Not really, but I’m at about 500′ elevation. I’m up late, not early.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Happy Hanukkah! The holiday for celebrating our independence from foreign oil.

  10. 10.

    Keith G

    December 6, 2015 at 7:05 am

    FWIW, my neighborhood is about 45 ft.

    Well, there is a very large Hobart mixer across the kitchen that just timed out of the job it was doing. I need to get back at it. Fresh backed goods at “my place” in an hour or so. All are welcome.

  11. 11.

    raven

    December 6, 2015 at 7:12 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I brought a beach towel for LilBit since it is 36 here at the bakery!

  12. 12.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 7:15 am

    @raven:

    I’m glad it’s colder. The warm weather was starting to creep me out.

  13. 13.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2015 at 7:27 am

    @Baud: Still (relatively) warm here. Supposed to be in the 60s by the end of the week.

  14. 14.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    December 6, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Just got home Saturday from 4 tough days working in Canada. First thing I learned was that my great-uncle Richard had died. I just saw him at Thanksgiving. He was 84 years old, and my 98 year old Grandma’s baby brother. They lived in the same senior care center. Grandma’s still regaining her strength from a broken hip, and losing Rich is going to hit her hard. It’s a sad day.

  15. 15.

    JPL

    December 6, 2015 at 7:36 am

    @Baud: Yesterday I finished cleaning up the leafs and mowed. The grass hasn’t gone dormant yet.
    Thanks Al!

  16. 16.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 7:36 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    Man, that sucks. So sorry.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 7:36 am

    @JPL:

    So goddamn fat.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    December 6, 2015 at 7:37 am

    @Keith G: Lucky — it’s still in the high 70s / low 80s here, and will remain so all week. It’s supposed to be a little bit cooler.

  19. 19.

    Betty Cracker

    December 6, 2015 at 7:38 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Sorry to hear that. Poor grandma.

  20. 20.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    December 6, 2015 at 7:39 am

    @Baud:
    Thanks. The funeral will be a mob scene. He was a Korean war vet and active in the VFW and Legion. Had 4 kids, 14 grandkids and 17 great-grands. I knew this year would be a tough one. So many people in my family in their 80s and 90s. You know it’s gonna happen but the blow still lands hard.

  21. 21.

    JPL

    December 6, 2015 at 7:41 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: That is so sad.

  22. 22.

    JPL

    December 6, 2015 at 7:42 am

    @Baud: It’s a tad late in the season for green grass and roses blooming.

  23. 23.

    Keith G

    December 6, 2015 at 7:44 am

    @Betty Cracker: Luckily?

  24. 24.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 7:47 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    Had 4 kids, 14 grandkids and 17 great-grands.

    That’s great. I wish I could have grandkids. Most of your family seems like they’ve had good long lives. What more can you ask for?

  25. 25.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 7:47 am

    @JPL: on the bright side, maybe we’ll have winter baseball one day.

  26. 26.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    December 6, 2015 at 7:53 am

    @Baud:
    Indeed. That root of my ancestry is free of any inherited tendency to disease. They pretty much keep running until they fade out in their 80s or 90s.
    He’ll be buried in the same cemetery where we visited my mother’s grave (other root) last month. It’s a nice spot that’s been collecting the remains of my mother’s and father’s families back to the 19th century.

  27. 27.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 6, 2015 at 7:58 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Should be in the lower 60’s by the end of the week. Today, upper 70’s to low 80’s.

  28. 28.

    Keith G

    December 6, 2015 at 8:02 am

    @Baud: There is winter league basabol here in Texas.

  29. 29.

    Amir Khalid

    December 6, 2015 at 8:15 am

    @Jerzy Russian:
    In the Netherlands, Sinterklaas is accompanied by his very non-PC cmpanion, Zwarte Piet, a bumbling, slow-witted black man. The UN has denounced the depiction of Zwarte Piet as racist.

  30. 30.

    MattF

    December 6, 2015 at 8:19 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: FWIW, my grandma’s favorite curse was “Go shit in the sea.”

  31. 31.

    Kay

    December 6, 2015 at 8:22 am

    I’m getting the Christmas tree today. I buy it from the Lions – it’s their big fundraiser. I also have to get a stocking for my (new) son in law because they’re staying here for Christmas. In order to hang that stocking on the available hangers I have to remove my eldest son’s, but he and his wife go to Denmark for Christmas and have for the last 2 years so I have to bump him. I told him and he feigned outrage but he knew I wasn’t going to hold that slot forever! :)

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2015 at 8:25 am

    @MattF: An old South side buddy of mine’s favorite curse was “Fuck you, you fucking fuck!” What Matt lacked in eloquence he more than made up for with vehemence.

  33. 33.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 8:25 am

    @Amir Khalid: The Netherlands leaves up to its name for once.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 8:27 am

    @Baud:

    Leaves = lives

    Sigh.

  35. 35.

    debbie

    December 6, 2015 at 8:37 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    You say, “Pfft!” with a look of disgust. Or at least that’s how my grandfather expressed it.

  36. 36.

    Betty Cracker

    December 6, 2015 at 8:37 am

    @Keith G: I meant you’re lucky. I’m wishing the weather was a bit more seasonally appropriate here.

  37. 37.

    Marc

    December 6, 2015 at 8:38 am

    This year I’m getting eight gifts from Cards Against Humanity, as part of this years Holiday B******t promotion. Yesterday I received a sensible pair of socks – just like the first gift (received Friday), save the fist had a menorah with two candles lit embroidered on them and the latest pair has threelit. I have a feeling I know what the next gift I’ll receive will be…

  38. 38.

    Central Planning

    December 6, 2015 at 8:41 am

    It’s unseasonably warm here in Rochester. No temperatures below 32F forecast for the next 10 days. I suspect we’ll be having a brown Christmas this year.

    My 14yo daughter swore she would rake the rest of the leaves and get them to the curb. That hasn’t happened. “What leaves are you talking about? I don’t see any!”. Oy!

  39. 39.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 6, 2015 at 8:50 am

    3d GIF of The Beatles – Abbey Road album cover

  40. 40.

    Kay

    December 6, 2015 at 8:57 am

    I hope Ted Cruz wins the nom because he’s so creepy – staging his family like this is just weird:

    “Thanks to the (few) rules governing campaign Super PACs, candidates aren’t technically allowed to coordinate with them. Which means candidates can’t technically feed them hours and hours of raw video footage for future campaign ads. Candidates can however, casually leave them on a neglected YouTube account for Super PACs to find. And thank god they can, because Ted Cruz did.”

  41. 41.

    debbie

    December 6, 2015 at 9:02 am

    @Kay:

    First thing I heard this morning was his declaration that when elected, he would carpet bomb ISIS out of existence. Because that’s always worked!

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2015/12/05/cruz-carpet-bomb-isis-into-oblivion/76796154/

    Edit: He actually said “into oblivion.” Even better.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 9:03 am

    @Kay:

    Cruz seems like the type of dad you’d see as the star of a 1950’s family sitcom if it were directed by Tim Burton.

  43. 43.

    bk

    December 6, 2015 at 9:05 am

    @MattF: Gai cocken ahfen yam, I think?

  44. 44.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 9:05 am

    @debbie:

    And by ISIS, he means liberals.

  45. 45.

    Amir Khalid

    December 6, 2015 at 9:12 am

    @debbie:
    If President Ted carpet-bombs ISIS’ stomping grounds in Iraq and the Levant, he will kill many of them, but also far more of their victims. He will destroy infrastructure that will take decades to rebuild. He will make “America” one of the Devil’s many names in those parts. And, as you say, he won’t succeed in eliminating them.

  46. 46.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 9:15 am

    @Baud: Sorry to point out relying on miracles to achieve oil independence is a conservative policy.

  47. 47.

    debbie

    December 6, 2015 at 9:16 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    he will kill many of them, but also far more of their victims

    Just like the good Christian he is.

  48. 48.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 9:23 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I always liked Ball Four‘s shitfuck! To be occasionaly replaced by fuckshit! A friend’s dad had a nice PG one-size-fits-all: motheruchee!

  49. 49.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2015 at 9:23 am

    @Amir Khalid: Kill them all, let God sort them out.

  50. 50.

    satby

    December 6, 2015 at 9:30 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Condolences to and your grandmother on your uncle’s passing.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    December 6, 2015 at 9:32 am

    @debbie:

    We’re bombing the hell out of ISIS and have been for months, but obviously we’re not going to let facts get in the way of GOP politicking.

    Congress has done their usual complete and utter abdication of their duties and has not actually debated or voted on this bombing campaign, so the next thing we’ll hear is about how the executive is over-reaching by conducting what is a war without Congressional involvement.

    Congress is broken and no one in political media wants to admit it, so we’ll continue to focus on the President as if he’s a king, and power fills a void, so the President will act more and more like a king. Congress likes it that way.

  52. 52.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 9:33 am

    @debbie: people keep implying he’s not a good Christian. I think he’s the prototypical Christian.

  53. 53.

    debbie

    December 6, 2015 at 9:40 am

    @Kay:

    By the way, did the vote to unionize at VW in Tennessee surprise you? I think it might be the beginning of the end of Redness in labor, but I might also be overly hopeful.

  54. 54.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2015 at 9:45 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    Sorry for your loss.

  55. 55.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Good Morning, Everyone :)

  56. 56.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 9:46 am

    @debbie: Hello? Linky? That’s good news, even better, unexpected good news. Is the governor threatening to cut the water and utilities to the plant off?

  57. 57.

    Botsplainer

    December 6, 2015 at 9:46 am

    My feeling is that a Ted Cruz presidency will bring about some form of nuclear devastation in Washington DC and lower Manhattan by improvised devices, as well as an attempted USAF coup that has to be put down by the Navy and Marines. That will be followed by economic collapse, an internationally-policed demilitarization and partial occupation.

    Bibi will be the one to set it off with the heartfelt backing of Cruz. If he isn’t turned into radioactive dust when his government collapses under combined assault,, his head will be rolling around in some dusty square in such surviving Arab or Iranian city that becomes a temporary capital of a unified Muslim polity.

  58. 58.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    December 6, 2015 at 9:47 am

    @debbie:

    By the way, did the vote to unionize at VW in Tennessee surprise you? I think it might be the beginning of the end of Redness in labor, but I might also be overly hopeful.

    It’s my understanding that unionization was a VW management priority. VW has union involvement on the board, so they were motivated to bring a union to the table here. That makes VW somewhat unique because of German attitudes to labor.
    I’ve been in and out of a couple of VW plants in North America and I can say from sad experience that the workplace conditions that US workers enjoy because of union power are not shared by their brethren to the south.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    December 6, 2015 at 9:53 am

    @debbie:

    It didn’t really “surprise” me because I know they never give up. You know only skilled trades voted, right? That’s a “micro union”. It’s 11% of the workers. It’s a win but I noticed conservatives are playing it up and labor is downplaying it, probably because they know conservatives will use it as a rallying cry “they’re invading the south!”

    I think it’s kind of sad, but maybe typical, that the people who make the higher wages and have more job security voted to unionize while the really vulnerable people did not.

    RTW is dead in Ohio, so that’s good. They had to put it to a vote in the lower chamber because that’s what the rules dictate, but they’re afraid of the kind of backlash they got with Senate Bill 5 and they don’t want that in an election year.

  60. 60.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2015 at 9:53 am

    OT:

    I call it Southern Strategy without the dogwhistles…but, whatever floats your boat. It’s still CLINGING TO THE WHITENESS.

    Nick TimiraosVerified account
    ‏@NickTimiraos
    Behind Trump’s surge: a new brand of secular populism that appeals to blue collar voters http://on.wsj.com/1HLY8UU

  61. 61.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Skilled trade workers only:

    The workers who specialize in repairing and maintaining machinery and robots at the German automaker’s factory in Chattanooga voted 108-44, or 71 percent, to have the UAW negotiate collective bargaining deals on their behalf.
    The vote comes nearly 20 months after the union was narrowly defeated in an election involving all hourly plant employees.

    From Detroit News

  62. 62.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 9:59 am

    @Kay:

    That’s a “micro union”. It’s 11% of the workers.

    On the bright side, the 89% get to keep their guns and their faith the Jebus lets them win the lottery.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2015 at 9:59 am

    @Kay: Meanwhile, as Europeans are “lining up*” for the opportunity to drop some more meaningless bombs on already destroyed ISIL targets, our “Arab allies**” are shifting their resources to Yemen and or holding them back because Syria is now nothing more than a complete clusterfvck:

    Europe joins Obama’s air war in Syria as Arab partners quietly stand down

    *last week the French sent out to bombing forays

    ** the phrase “Arab Allies” is a contradiction in terms.

  64. 64.

    debbie

    December 6, 2015 at 10:00 am

    @Kay:

    RTW is dead in Ohio, so that’s good. They had to put it to a vote in the lower chamber

    Are you talking about the hearings they had just last week? They voted that down already? I can’t keep up with all the shenanigans.

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2015/12/04/1-dont-pick-a-new-fight.html

  65. 65.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2015 at 10:01 am

    @Botsplainer: I have to say that I find you to be overly optimistic.

  66. 66.

    Chris

    December 6, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @Botsplainer:
    My feeling is that a Ted Cruz presidency will bring about some form of nuclear devastation in Washington DC and lower Manhattan by improvised devices, as well as an attempted USAF coup that has to be put down by the Navy and Marines. That will be followed by economic collapse, an internationally-policed demilitarization and partial occupation.

    I could see Ted Blofeld-Cruz instigating a nuclear war with the thought that it’ll mostly be the cities and not the heartland that’s targeted in the counterstrike. Especially if the war is with a country that only has a limited number of nukes (i.e. not Russia) and therefore can’t actually carpet-nuke the entire U.S.A.

    Is it bad that when I get to the end of Independence Day nowadays, my thought is “oh fucking shit, now we’re going to have to recover from the worst attack in world history with a government that’ll be controlled by Republicans for at least the next two generations?”

  67. 67.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2015 at 10:05 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:DOH! *last week the French sent out 2 bombing forays

  68. 68.

    Kay

    December 6, 2015 at 10:06 am

    @p.a.:

    It’s good they’ve been forced to get really creative, though. I wish they could get thru to people that if a labor union negotiates a good deal for a segment it’s a new ceiling, and a new ceiling benefits every single person in that sector. That “free rider” thing is real. Non union benefit from a unionized segment. My middle son was working for a non-union employer here and they had to respond to higher wages in the unionized plants that surrounded them. He didn’t stay because he got an apprenticeship with a union but he would have – it was a “good job”- training, high hourly wage, benefits. If they didn’t have to offer that here to get and retain people they wouldn’t.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    December 6, 2015 at 10:11 am

    @debbie:

    This.

    It’s tempting to say “when you fight them they back off!” but of course the key to that is you have to win and not every state has a referendum process and that was an exceptionally well-run campaign :)

    I hope it’s true and they’re just bullshitting their donors with the vote. It really could hurt them though and they are desperate to not just carry the state in the Prez election but also retain the Senate seat.

  70. 70.

    Iowa Old Lady

    December 6, 2015 at 10:11 am

    Mr IOL has Fox on in the other room. I don’t know how he stands it. They are so obsessed with Obama that he’s all they can talk about, no matter what the story is ostensibly about.

  71. 71.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Why this single mother of 3 moved her family to the UAE

    By Monica Leftwich December 3

    Rarely do you hear about a newly divorced mother relocating to the Middle East for a new life. But that’s what Tanai Benard, 32, did two years ago, when she and her three children moved to Abu Dhabi.

    The move had been a dream that the Texas mother and her then-husband had — before he backed out. Benard filed for divorce shortly before boarding a plane for the United Arab Emirates.

    So I wondered: How does a single mom make it work in a new country? I chatted with her over Skype recently. Here’s a lightly edited transcript of our conversation.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2015/12/03/why-this-single-mother-of-3-moved-her-family-to-the-uae/

  72. 72.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 10:18 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: Don’t worry, the Fux shift to HRCmageddon is coming.

  73. 73.

    WereBear

    December 6, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Had fun yesterday: got a Sinatra button from our local music store, celebrating his 100th. So at an event I was attending for work, an older lady leaned close and said she liked it, she was a fan. I said it was because of his 100th and she lit up, so I got to say:

    “Ring a ding ding!”

    She dissolved in giggles. Sometimes you get a golden opportunity…

  74. 74.

    D58826

    December 6, 2015 at 10:24 am

    @debbie: He also said that we will see if the sand glows in the dark, which seems to be an allusion to nuclear weapons.
    In the meantime Rubio wants American ground troops in the Middle East as part of an US/ARAB coalition to fight ISIS. Not holding my breath on the Arab part. He also defended his vote against linking the no fly list with background checks. According to Rubio, and others, most of the people on the list have done nothing wrong so it would be unfair to deny them the right to but a gun. Which begs the question if people on the list have done nothing wrong then why are they even on the list?

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 6, 2015 at 10:25 am

    Salon is out-Saloning itself this go around

    Just let the Republicans win: Maybe things need to get really bad before America wakes up
    A GOP victory would bring disaster. Perhaps that’s necessary to destroy their credibility — and wake up Democrats
    SHANE RYAN

  76. 76.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 10:26 am

    @Kay: My union accepted 2 tier wage/benny agreement and medical premiums in 2012. It’s the beginning of the end: newbies aren’t going to strike to preserve benefits they don’t get. The feeling at the time was, if we went out we’d never get back. I retired 2/2015. Contract expired 8/2015. They’ve been working sans contract since then. Little movement. No contract = no raises, no grievance/arbitration procedures; discipline is at the discretion of the company. They haven’t yet cut off medical but it’s an option. That would = strike.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    December 6, 2015 at 10:30 am

    @Baud: How true!!!

  78. 78.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 10:30 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve flirted with that idea also. The addict theory: gotta bottom out to break the mold.

  79. 79.

    dmsilev

    December 6, 2015 at 10:33 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: They’re just trolling us now, right? If not, my response would be “The contradictions were heightened in 2000. Let’s not do that again.”.

  80. 80.

    debbie

    December 6, 2015 at 10:33 am

    @Kay:

    It’s also that the GOP legislators are idiots and don’t see the harm in what they’re doing by bringing RTW back up again. It must be killing Kasich to see this starting up again, but it will be fun watching. I wonder how Kasich will deal with confronting numerous versions of himself (My way or…).

  81. 81.

    The Thin Black Duke

    December 6, 2015 at 10:41 am

    @p.a.: Yeah, but people need to remember that when things get worse, sometimes the “bottom” is the hole they lower your coffin into.

  82. 82.

    D58826

    December 6, 2015 at 10:41 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I read the entire article. It was a justification for why progressives should sit out the election in 2016 and let Hillary lose. Progressives then can regroup and build a winning platform for 2020. It seems Hillary isn’t ‘pure’ enough. Does that make her a DINO? Anyway what he seems to miss is if the GOP takes the White House in 2016 they will probably be able to put 2-3 very young and very conservative justices on the Supreme Court as well as the lower courts It will be a rerun of the Lochner era in which the rights of the 1% will rule supreme. It won’t matter whither the progressive legislation comes from a state or the federal government it will be declared unconstitutional. And that is assuming there will be federal or state progressive legislation even passed. With the GOP in control of the federal government what little voting rights enforcement that is being done will disappear. As to the voters realizing that the GOP is a disaster just look at Wisc. Kansas, Fla. and Maine. All of these retrograde governors were reelected. Only Pa. threw out the reactionary governor but the state legislature is still controlled by the reactionaries. Two weeks ago the voters in Kentucky voted to deprive themselves of medical care. A GOP victory in 2016 will roll back most of the 20th century progress that progressive fraught for. Sitting out the election because Hillary isn’t GOOD enough will cement GOP control for a generation or more since they will do their level best to see that the progressive vote is minimized.

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2015 at 10:46 am

    @Kay:
    Kay,

    thanks for all the labor knowledge you drop here at BJ

  84. 84.

    Botsplainer

    December 6, 2015 at 10:50 am

    @Chris:

    Is it bad that when I get to the end of Independence Day nowadays, my thought is “oh fucking shit, now we’re going to have to recover from the worst attack in world history with a government that’ll be controlled by Republicans for at least the next two generations?”

    Republican intransigence would be mitigated by massive infrastructure builds, shovel-ready full employment, defense buildup directed toward space defense, absorption of alien technology and the utter end to God-bothering (as the alien invasion ended any notion of current human theology for the vast majority).

  85. 85.

    shell

    December 6, 2015 at 10:53 am

    The Wrath Of Khanukkah!

    http://rhymeswithorange.com/comics/december-6-2015/

  86. 86.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2015 at 10:53 am

    @Kay:

    I hope Ted Cruz wins the nom because he’s so creepy

    LOL

    but, you tell the truth

  87. 87.

    Iowa Old Lady

    December 6, 2015 at 10:54 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: People who say let it get worse are obviously not worried about their health care, right to vote, equal pay, right to unionize, access to abortion and contraceptives, religious freedom, education, etc. Frankly at this point, they are my enemy.

  88. 88.

    MattF

    December 6, 2015 at 10:56 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oy. “Worse is better” is a fallacy that just won’t die. You have to keep saying, “Worse is not better, worse is worse.”

  89. 89.

    shell

    December 6, 2015 at 10:58 am

    As always, its a complete mystery why my last comment got stuck in moderation.

  90. 90.

    Chris

    December 6, 2015 at 10:58 am

    @Botsplainer:
    (as the alien invasion ended any notion of current human theology for the vast majority).

    How’s that?

  91. 91.

    Relax

    December 6, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Jeb doing the Sunday Show rounds this morning–starting with George Stephanopolous. This will be in preparation for the new Jeb informercial that will be up and on the air in New Hampshire this week. Smiling knowingly while saying “Donald Trump will not be the nominee”. Knowingly, mind you.

    Word is if this works we’re going to buy a full hour of primetime, broadcast TV to do an even bigger infomercial on NH TV, starting with the Boston market. That’s right, one full hour, PRIMETIME , all Jeb and nothing but Jeb.

    We’re going to carpet bomb the shit out of the airwaves. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

  92. 92.

    Chris

    December 6, 2015 at 11:00 am

    @rikyrah:

    Co-signed. There are a lot of people I like reading here, but Kay is either at the top of the list or not very far from it.

  93. 93.

    shell

    December 6, 2015 at 11:02 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: Its like developing a leak in your roof, but your husband is reluctant to spend the money to fix it. So you think,”Okay, let it just get worse till the ceiling caves in and then he’ll finally agree to fix it.”
    That makes just as much logical sense.

  94. 94.

    Peale

    December 6, 2015 at 11:04 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: since they now run that same article every week in one form or another, I’m guessing it’s either the only topic that gets clicks there these days. Or “oblivion” is the new editorial stance at Salon.

  95. 95.

    Relax

    December 6, 2015 at 11:04 am

    BTW, the big donors are still fully onboard. They are going “all-in” for Jeb and deeply believe he gives the GOP the best chance for victory in November. As long as the billionaires keeps that cool hard cash flowing, Jeb is in it to win it.

  96. 96.

    Glidwrith

    December 6, 2015 at 11:06 am

    @rikyrah: I can’t hope for a Cruz nomination-he strikes me as truly evil. Trump is a dumbshit who has no knowledge of the workings of government. Cruz is part of the system and would be Cheney unbound.

  97. 97.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 6, 2015 at 11:11 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think we need to start asking ourselves whether a Republican ratfucking campaign is paying Salon to run these articles. Because it’s just too consistent.

  98. 98.

    Iowa Old Lady

    December 6, 2015 at 11:16 am

    I know there’s no such thing as peak wingnut, but you have to admit right-wing rhetoric is already pretty close to hitting bottom. We don’t need to have that rhetoric put into action.

    I’ve said before that the third party voters are like anti-vaxxers, preserving their own purity and letting the rest of us provide herd immunity (though the election of W shows that plan sometimes fails). The “let it hit bottom” rhetoric is worse than that because it doesn’t even hope for the rest of us to save the situation.

  99. 99.

    scav

    December 6, 2015 at 11:16 am

    Nothing is more convincing and beguiling than putting out the leftovers from dishes no one wanted in the first place on the table again and again, with nothing else on the table for hours on end. There’ll be a little amusement when he begins to get all moldy about the edges: we can run a pool as to whether he’ll go green or that fuzzy white first. Long-shot the slimy red-orange.

  100. 100.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 6, 2015 at 11:19 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: Oh, there’s so much worse it could get. I haven’t seen anyone directly urging people to murder their neighbors yet, and the calls for mass extermination in death camps are still pretty fringe.

  101. 101.

    D58826

    December 6, 2015 at 11:23 am

    @Matt McIrvin: This argument may have made some sense back in the day of Rockefeller/Eisenhower/Howard Baker style republicans but not today. To allow the current GOP to gain control of the WH is just turning the entire country over to the 21st century version of the ‘let them eat cake’ French nobility of the 1780’s.

  102. 102.

    Germy

    December 6, 2015 at 11:30 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think we need to start asking ourselves whether a Republican ratfucking campaign is paying Salon to run these articles. Because it’s just too consistent.

    That was my first reaction, because of something I saw on LGM about American Crossroads dumping money in an “Attack HRC From the Left” sockpuppet scheme.

  103. 103.

    Keith G

    December 6, 2015 at 11:30 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: I will go you one further. Those who say “Let things get worse” are those folks who will be insulated from the effects of those things that will get worse. One of the reasons there is such a lack of common sense in many of our democratic political types and the younger liberal, leftist, and/or democratic types in the media is their upbringing and life experience. Many of them are just too damn well off.

    When I was a pup, national reporters had usually put their time in working union jobs in small town and city newspapers. They understood labor issues and they understood bare-knuckle politics very well. During that same time, as often as not, politicians had grown up cutting their political teeth in neighborhood wards and city council elections eventually working their way on the state politics.

    I value a good education, but my god we don’t need any more political writers having English degrees from Harvard or Yale. And I have noticed that even in some local political races, there are candidates who instead of growing up through the local political process are businessmen with Ivy League degrees condescending to help the little people run their government as well as supply regulatory relief and economical succor to whatever business interests they are associated with.

  104. 104.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 11:31 am

    @Matt McIrvin:
    @D58826:

    I’m at the point where, if the author if one of those pieces “from the left” is white, I just presume they are content with the GOP’s racial policies. Possibly oversimplified, but they don’t deserve any greater consideration.

  105. 105.

    Amir Khalid

    December 6, 2015 at 11:32 am

    @Peale:
    There’s also a Hillarista piece they rewrite every week as a sort of counterbalance to the Bernista piece. Between them the two pieces seem like a repetitious argument between two people who aren’t listening to each other.

  106. 106.

    ? Martin

    December 6, 2015 at 11:32 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Maybe things need to get really bad before America wakes up

    I’m sure the same argument was offered in Germany around 1928. The argument presumes that most voters would be disgusted by the results, but there’s little evidence to support that.

  107. 107.

    D58826

    December 6, 2015 at 11:33 am

    We should also remember the last two times that the democrats nominated a very liberal candidate for president. Mondale and McGovern didn’t turn out real well. It seem that Americans like their social safety net programs but they don’t want o make it look like they do.

  108. 108.

    Germy

    December 6, 2015 at 11:35 am

    @Amir Khalid: There was a time when I found SALON valuable. Lately, they make me pissed off at myself for falling for their clickbaity titles that have nothing to do with the articles, or ridiculous essays like “Let the GOP win, and wreck things so bad the pendulum will swing back towards a utopia.”

  109. 109.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 6, 2015 at 11:36 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: as Joe Conason explained, or tried to, to Bill Maher, Ralph Nader (ETA: That should be Michael Moore, talking about Nader) and Susan Sarandon in 2000, to you there’s not a dime’s worth of difference cause you got lots of dimes.

    @Peale: I almost miss the days of Camille Paglia, who at least brought some freak-show levels of absurdity to her rants.

  110. 110.

    trollhattan

    December 6, 2015 at 11:39 am

    @Baud:
    Cruz is the neighbor-foil used for comic relief and unexpected antagonism.

  111. 111.

    Mike E

    December 6, 2015 at 11:40 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I see George RR Martin must have developed a random history generator app…

  112. 112.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 6, 2015 at 11:41 am

    @Baud: Cruz seems like the type of dad you’d see as the star of a 1950’s family sitcom if it were directed by Tim Burton.

    Or John Waters

  113. 113.

    Mike E

    December 6, 2015 at 11:42 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Freak show absurdity… I suppose GOS is charming that way

  114. 114.

    Peale

    December 6, 2015 at 11:44 am

    I learned that if one puts ones Fitbit next to a table fan, the vibrations from the fan can be recorded as steps. Either that or I walked 21 miles in my sleep last night.

  115. 115.

    Germy

    December 6, 2015 at 11:45 am

    The Shame Project
    Shame the hacks who abuse media ethics.

  116. 116.

    Amir Khalid

    December 6, 2015 at 11:46 am

    @Germy:
    Online media as a whole seems to be going that way. Alas, and also a-lack-a-day.

  117. 117.

    trollhattan

    December 6, 2015 at 11:46 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Jesus, like we backlashed against Reagan by giving him second and third terms (via HW)?

    If that’s the Shane Ryan who reviews TV shows, he should stick with that.

  118. 118.

    trollhattan

    December 6, 2015 at 11:49 am

    @Peale:
    Feeling a little tuckered today? That’s a lot of mileage.

  119. 119.

    Amir Khalid

    December 6, 2015 at 11:51 am

    From Salon’s Bernista piece:

    But consider this: What if we didn’t vote, and Hillary lost as a result? Like it or not, that makes a profound statement. It would likely force the Democratic party to move left on economic issues and, fearing another schism, throw its weight behind a far more progressive candidate in 2020.

    I think it would more likely bring the Democratic party to conclude that it can’t count on progressives, and thus to cling even more tightly to the centre.

  120. 120.

    Peale

    December 6, 2015 at 11:53 am

    @Germy: I’ve written a post called “17 ways Salon jumped the shark” for Diply.

  121. 121.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 11:54 am

    @Amir Khalid: FWIW, if Bernie gets the nomination, I expect Salon to run piece after piece from women who say the Democratic Party betrayed them and doesn’t deserve our vote. Whatever it takes to get clicks.

  122. 122.

    Germy

    December 6, 2015 at 11:55 am

    @Peale: link? I’d like to read it. “one simple trick to stop reading SALON – salon editors hate this”

  123. 123.

    JMG

    December 6, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Hillary Clinton as a Senator and candidate has been pretty solidly in the middle of the Democratic mainstream. There were few Obama voters in 2008 who wouldn’t have supported her had she won the nomination.
    My only worry about her is that she might be unable or unwilling to resist pressure to create another Middle East ground war. The American people would be in favor of that for about three weeks. Then the war wasn’t over, the Democrats would get the blame for the quagmire.

  124. 124.

    ? Martin

    December 6, 2015 at 11:56 am

    @Amir Khalid: Yeah, great plan – further reduce voter turnout so that special interests can play an even larger role in who gets elected. I’m sure that’ll reliably work out in favor of the most liberal candidate.

  125. 125.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 6, 2015 at 11:58 am

    Here’s some great news!

  126. 126.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 6, 2015 at 11:58 am

    @? Martin:

    I’m sure the same argument was offered in Germany around 1928.

    It’s actually one of the most famous examples. “Nach Hitler, uns!”

    …though that was in 1933 after he’d actually taken power, so they may have just been trying to put the best face on things.

  127. 127.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 11:58 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Scratch & Cruz? Cruz & Sniff?

  128. 128.

    The Thin Black Duke

    December 6, 2015 at 11:59 am

    @Amir Khalid: What this would do, more likely than not, is to guarantee that the Democrats would never win political office again. The GOP would make damned sure of that.

  129. 129.

    GregB

    December 6, 2015 at 11:59 am

    @Relax:

    My Father was complaining that he could not watch his sports scores this morning because there was a half an hour Bush infomercial on “fer Chrissakes!”.

    Watching Trumps spokesperson Pierson on CNN and she was just a master at horseshit, obfuscation and attack.

    The country is really descending into a new level of madness. There’s that wingnut politician celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace with a Christmas card showing his whole family displaying their various types of weaponry and then there is Erick Erickson so unhinged that he’s shooting up NY Times editorials and displaying the photos of such.

    All the King’s horses and all the King’s men don’t know how to put things back together.

    Too bad they didn’t decide to throw all of this money at the workers and citizens.

  130. 130.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 6, 2015 at 11:59 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Wow!

  131. 131.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 6, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Anyone else thinking this line doesn’t have quite the oomph Jeb! thought it would?

    Sam Stein ‏@ samsteinhp 1h1 hour ago
    “A caliphate the size of Indiana” – Jeb, describing ISIS.

  132. 132.

    WereBear

    December 6, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I think it would more likely bring the Democratic party to conclude that it can’t count on progressives, and thus to cling even more tightly to the centre.

    I agree. That is basically what happens when progressives don’t turn out. If you don’t vote, you are invisible.

    I see this as the dark side of Identity Politics. If the candidate isn’t just like you, too many “yous” pout and act like it is a consumer transaction, where the magical market will listen to them and supply a sparklier, more unicorn-friendly, version.

  133. 133.

    J R in WV

    December 6, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    .
    .
    .

    But who will sit through a 15 minute infomercial about !Jeb?? Much less an hour long TV show starring – !Jeb??

    I can barely stand a 30 second commercial without either cutting off the TV tuner app, running the volume to near zero, or clicking on a web page leaving the TV tuner buzzing aimlessly behind the web browser.

    And I watched some of that Ted Cruz bulk tape, about 4 minutes of !!! 16 hours!!! OMG it was horrible.

    “Hug again, a little longer this time.” or “Tell him “You’re my best friend, almost!”” hearing the direction and script prompting in the background made it so obviously real that it was completely and totaly false! And how phony Cruz and his whole personality really is!

    Wow. And TRump. You just can’t say how bad what Trump is saying is – it’s past description. Evil, immoral, bullying, short-sighted, arrogant, falsehood, and cocky in all the wrong ways.

  134. 134.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 6, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I know! I sure wasn’t ready to say goodbye quite yet, and now it looks as though I won’t have to. At least, not this way.

  135. 135.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    @Amir Khalid: The Democratic Party doesn’t count on or discount progressives. It doesn’t like them. The Democratic Party is feckless. For every Warren there’s a dozen Rahms. Bernie isn’t at home in the Dem Party. He just has to run as a Dem. Look at the Dem machines in NY and Mass. If there were any opportunity for progressive dominance it would be there. A Cuomo? Albany? Hah! Mass is better, but the party keeps throwing up hacks to run for Gov and losing to Repubs, albeit kinda sorta Rockefeller Repubs.

  136. 136.

    Anoniminous

    December 6, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    @? Martin:

    It was. The German Communist Party, under orders from Stalin, rejected an offer from the Social Democrats to form an Anti-Nazi alliance because Fascism was late-stage Capitalism that could only be imposed for a brief time before the proletariat rose to their historic role of overthrowing Capitalism and instituting Socialism.

  137. 137.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    @Anoniminous: I can’t believe that didn’t work.

  138. 138.

    Anoniminous

    December 6, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    @Baud:

    It is a puzzlement, isn’t it?

  139. 139.

    debbie

    December 6, 2015 at 12:15 pm

    @D58826:

    Sitting out the election because Hillary isn’t GOOD enough…

    There are those in the Tea Party saying the same thing if Bush is the nominee. Why anyone would willingly let their country and fellow Americans suffer for another 8 years is beyond me.

  140. 140.

    scav

    December 6, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “A caliphate the size of Indiana” – Jeb, describing ISIS.

    Well, that would just bring them to parity with Indiana (land of the flak-jacketed open-air markets of xianian tolerance and safety — with pizza pieties!).

  141. 141.

    MattF

    December 6, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    @J R in WV: I just called my sister to wish her a happy birthday– and she mentioned that one of her oldest and dearest friends has become a Trump fan. She said “I had to restrain myself from leaning over the table and throttling her.”

  142. 142.

    Peale

    December 6, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: it’s like The Upper Michigan Peninsula, but ruled by crazy people.

  143. 143.

    Anoniminous

    December 6, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    Next time someone asks me how the Germans were so stupid and callous to support Hitler I’m going to point at Trump.

  144. 144.

    WereBear

    December 6, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    @Anoniminous: I do wonder how many Germans said, “Oh, Hitler is just saying that to get elected. He doesn’t mean any of it!”

  145. 145.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    @Baud: Well, Uncle Joe may have been wrong on the mechanics, but it only took 12 years to spread Socialism over large swaths of Europe, and another 4 years for China. And 50-80 million deaths, but Uncle Joe was a big-picture guy.

  146. 146.

    MattF

    December 6, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    @Anoniminous: And the old-line Prussian Establishment despised Hitler. So, don’t expect much help from the old-line Republican Establishment.

  147. 147.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    @p.a.:

    Obama’s failure to start WWIII was the biggest sell-out of all.

  148. 148.

    MattF

    December 6, 2015 at 12:33 pm

    @p.a.: Lots of broken eggs, but where are the omelets?

  149. 149.

    WereBear

    December 6, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    @p.a.: Karl Marx was wrong about many things, but his seminal philosophy was utterly irresitible to feudal populations under pressure to modernize.

    While unworkable in long-term practice, communism has the virtue of simplicity and fairness. It’s easy to discuss and has a direct emotional appeal.

    And it is no wonder than countries with a long history of some form of monarchy would, in times of crisis, cling to the Strong Man who makes promises that appeal to them. The colonies wanted to crown George Washington. Fortunately, he had no direct heirs, and he was an incredible man who refused, thus setting a democratic precedent.

    We are living through a global upheaval the like of which has only happened a few times before, like the long death throes of the Roman Empire and the social earthquakes of the Reformation.

    Gutenberg II, Electric Boogaloo.

  150. 150.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    @MattF: Yes. They and the German capitalists thought they were using him. Oopsie. Nazi electoral growth had plateaued. Didn’t seem they would gain power democratically as the Italian Fascists had. German conservatives were a great help.

  151. 151.

    Anoniminous

    December 6, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    @WereBear:

    A lot. The depressing political history of the last years of the Wiemar Republic is only surpassed by the depressing economic and political-economic history of the last years of the Wiemar Republic. Nazi vote peaked at 37% in the July election of 1932, fell to 33% in the November election and that was the last one before Hitler was name chancellor and started his “palace coup” (kinda).

  152. 152.

    p.a.

    December 6, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    @Baud: Still time. ;-(

  153. 153.

    Anoniminous

    December 6, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    @WereBear:

    If I was a Chinese peasant unable to feed my family because the local landlord and warlord were taking 80% of the rice I grew for rent and taxes and my youngest daughter was kidnapped to serve as a sex slave I’d listen *really hard* when the Communist Party organizers came around.

  154. 154.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    December 6, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    @WereBear:

    Gutenberg II, Electric Boogaloo.

    Awesomesauce, is that description.

  155. 155.

    Baud

    December 6, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    @Anoniminous:

    I’d blame Chinese Obama for the high taxes and regulation of job creators that kept me from becoming an oppressive landlord myself.

  156. 156.

    FlipYrWhig

    December 6, 2015 at 12:54 pm

    @p.a.: Why it’s almost as though the number of progressives in America is smaller than the number of moderates and that the composition and policy priorities of the Democratic Party reflect a compromise between progressives and moderates!

  157. 157.

    Ruckus

    December 6, 2015 at 1:09 pm

    @GregB:
    Too bad they didn’t decide to throw all of this money at the workers and citizens.
    They could just pay the taxes that would support a vibrant economy and society and it would be less than they are paying towards winning politically and the cost of hiding the rest so they don’t have to pay taxes. But of course then they couldn’t be bullies and have a huge poor class to lord it over. Can’t have that.

  158. 158.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    December 6, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    @Keith G:

    True fact — in the 1990s, the Los Angeles Times required its staff writers to have a masters degree in journalism, and I’m pretty sure the requirement continued to these days of mass layoffs and buyouts at the paper. My MFA in screenwriting is looking like a better bargain than the MAs in journalism some of my college newspaper colleagues got.

  159. 159.

    patricak ii

    December 6, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    that sounds like a pewtty straight up description of Indiana.

  160. 160.

    Geoduck

    December 6, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    In case no one already covered it…
    The best Hanukkah song ever

  161. 161.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    @Kay:

    awe, you have Christmas stocking slots…that’s so sweet (not being snarky, because we never hung them as a child, and I always wanted to)

  162. 162.

    tybee

    December 6, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    seriously good news

  163. 163.

    tybee

    December 6, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    my first date with the current mrs tybee was november 2, 1976, the night jimmeh was elected.

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