Several of you have mentioned being bullied into saying “Merry Christmas” to people instead of “Happy Holidays.” Fox News is behind it, of course. The Fox News audience is so sloshed on eggnog spiked with spite and self-pity that they’ve deputized themselves as a national holiday language police squad. The irony is that the effect is so un-Christian it would make Baby Jeebus sit up in his manger and spray all three wise men with projectile vomit.
I’ve experienced this phenomenon myself this season, albeit in mild form. There’s a local grocery chain that I just adore, but I did some work for them years ago at their corporate headquarters, and they are an exceptionally conservative, Jesusy outfit (or were at the time). This year, I suspect the word has gone out to their staff that they are under no circumstances to wish customers “Happy Holidays” but instead an emphatic “Merry Christmas.” Or maybe some staff at my local branch are just freelance language policing — I honestly don’t know — but it’s noticeably different this year.
Anyhoo, most staff are perfunctory about it. But I can tell when the “Merry Christmas” is truly meant as a cultural marker rather than a sincere expression of holiday cheer. How? I’m not sure I can describe it, but there’s a malicious gleam of anticipation in the speakers’ eyes as they mouth the words, as if they are just salivating to catch you out as a fellow Christian who will respond with your own triumphant “Merry Christmas!” or as a hell-bound heathen Happy Holidayist at whom they can sneer.
At first, I wondered if I was just being paranoid about this. But an encounter at the checkout line yesterday convinced me it really is a plot. I usually just say “you too!” in response to “Merry Christmas,” but this time, I said “Merry Christmas” back. The cashier leaned in and whispered mock-confidentially, “At least it’s not illegal for us to say that. Yet!”
I wanted to rump-pah-pah-punch him in the junk. But I settled for rolling my eyes instead.
Please feel free to share your Happy Holidays persecution stories here or discuss whatever — open thread!
PS: In a no-doubt futile bid to keep this thread from spiraling into a spoiler-filled Star Wars discussion, I will once again offer a link to a hidden Star Wars thread. It requires desktop mode if you’re on a mobile device, but all you have to do is click the image below to be transported to a galaxy far, far away where you can discuss the movie (or argue about the idiocy of fellow viewers’ opinions) without ruining it for those who haven’t seen it yet.
WereBear
Fortunately, I haven’t encountered any meanness. But I shop at the tiny stores locally, or online. This insulates me.
a different chris
Oh Betty, how dare you not volunteer to nail yourself to that cross they’re dragging around everywhere. The nerve of some people!
Bg
Please tell me it’ not Publix
WereBear
In the spirit of Festivus, my BJ fans might want to join my Holiday Raffle.
But if you insist, it is a Christmas Raffle. Or Boxing Day. Or Kwanzaa.
Arm The Homeless
Our Publix had a dreaded, Happy Holidays banner at the front of the store, but the chipper cashier was sure to use Merry Christmas as she rung up my cheap wine and gellato.
Sometimes I wish them a Fruitful Kwanzaa, but usually I just smile and thank them for the well wishes.
Mike J
I always carry some gelt around at this time of year to reward the people who don’t say merry Christmas.
dedc79
My “Happy Winter” greeting doesn’t seem to be getting any traction (I mean, why assume people are celebrating any holiday at all?). I’m hoping that’s just a reflection of the fact that it’s about 40 degrees normal than it should be this time of year.
Brachiator
I refuse to be dragged into the Xmas v Holiday mess. When I was growing up, I would say Merry Xmas to most people around because the vast majority of them were Xtians. Even though I was God’s little agnostic from a very early age. Later, if I knew what faith another person was, I would try to acknowledge that particular faith, and not just some generic Holidays BS.
And it’s Xmas carols, not holiday music. But hell, there are people who consider themselves Xtians, but still find a way to sacrifice chickens to Xango. Right on.
But (swear to the Speed Force) yesterday evening while dining I heard two old white coots get themselves into a lather over the war on Xmas and Xtians even though no one around them gave a fvck. And this morning, the Asian lady who sold me some donuts, after giving me change, said, “Oh, I forgot. Merry Xmas.” I think she was just being friendly, so I shot back a “Happy Holidays” to her, just to be option friendly. And I made a note to make sure to go by her shop come Chinese New Year.
Cause that’s how I roll.
WereBear
@dedc79: I use Happy Solstice until I can’t any more, then Happy Festivus. For some reason, retail workers love that one.
pacem appellant
I found this youtube video helpful in understanding and even coming to terms with FOX’s War on Xmas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIzfRlYqdX0
TL;DW; It’s a marketing ploy for their gullible quarry.
dmsilev
Response: “When the time comes, I’ll be sure to point Them in your direction”
Ohio Mom
Whatever it is, it’s spread to Southwest Ohio. Yesterday I was on line at Starbucks and the fellow ahead of me turned around apropos of nothing and abruptly wished me a Merry Christmas just right in my face
Earlier that day, I was on the phone to a school office, talking to someone I’ve met only briefly to get some very general information about next sester’s calendar, and she announced at the end of the call that she wishes everyone Merry Christmas and then added, Merry Christmas.
I was thrown off balance each time and responded, “I’m Jewish but thanks. You have a Merry Christmas.” What threw me off balance, and what I might not be totally conveying, is the aggression both of these people offered their good wishes with. They barked at me, and out of the blue. Did not leave me feeling warm and fuzzy at all.
Today I’ve stayed home so far.
dedc79
Oh, Mcsweeney’s
WaterGirl
I wonder what Jesus will have to say to all these so-called christians if he comes back for the second coming they all believe in. Somehow, I don’t think they’ll like what he has to say.
gene108
You know the sad irony of the Fox News “War on Christmas” is that with each passing year this country gets less and less focused on Christmas, and Fox News really doesn’t seem to care.
When I was young, in the 1970’s and 1980’s, pretty much everything was closed on Christmas, except the Chinese restaurant or 24 hour greasy spoon diner that never closes.
Now plenty of things are open on Christmas.
It’s just another “holiday” like Memorial Day or Labor Day, when office workers get the day off, no mail is delivered and retail / services stay open.
Betty Cracker
@Ohio Mom:
Yes! That’s it. I’m a cultural Christian (i.e., an atheist raised by Christians who still celebrates Christmas and Easter for the feasts, presents and candy), and I find that aggressive brand of holiday well wishes irritating AF. A sincere “Merry Christmas” from someone who makes the reasonable assumption that I’m a Christian is totally welcome and heartily returned.
Elizabelle
@WereBear: Happy Festivus is great.
“Allahu Akbar, Amigo” might stop them in their tracks too. It’s friendlyish.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: They are losing their privileged world. But since they are so nasty about sharing, I cannot be sad.
WereBear
@Elizabelle: man, if I lived anywhere else, without the job I have, I’d do it.
MattF
This is all just more fodder for the ‘inscrutable gentiles’ folder. In any case, I’m reading ‘The Witches’ by Stacy Schiff, about the Salem witchcraft trials of 1692. The Massachusetts Puritans were as crazy-Christian as any group has ever been, but, for the record, celebration of ‘Christmas’ was illegal.
Mike R
Okay so we have to say Merry Christmas to make them happy or we get the stink eye. My question why do they hate our freedom?
raven
Dude pulled that shit on me while we were getting coffee at the bakery. I don’t think he was ready for me to jump ugly.
goblue72
I’m an atheist, but I don’t understand the butthurt on the left when people say Merry Christmas. 77% of the U.S. adult population identifies as Christian. Deal with it. If I lived in Egypt, I wouldn’t go around complaining about everybody celebrated Ramadan. If I lived in Israel, I wouldn’t bitch about Passover. As far as I am concerned, the 85% or whatever of the population that believes in some form or another of invisible sky gods/goddesses/etc are just superstitious nincompoops. But I don’t feel the need to run around pissing about it. Because, at the end of the day, Richard Dawkins is a total wanker.
Its either that, or everybody has to be a-ok with making ALL religious affiliated greetings verboten. No more Happy Hannukah. No acknowledging Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah. Or Passover. Or Ramadan. Or what have you. And remove the Festivus post from the blog. And everybody needs to be working tomorrow and Friday and all of next week. Cancel your vacations – the office will be open.
And as religious holidays go, its one so bastardized/secularized at this point that my Chinese non-Christian in-laws have a Xmas tree in their house and do Secret Santa every year. As far as they are concerned, “Christmas” equals this holiday where a fat magical demon in a red suit flies around giving gifts while everyone eats a lot of ham and drinks spiked wine and this weird egg drink that they aren’t exactly sold on. And there ain’t nothing wrong with that. I’d rather celebrate a bastardized religious holidays that involves everybody spreading cheer/love/peace, drinking lots of nog and giving each other gifts, that the actual secular holiday we all celebrate that involves mythologizing over that time a bunch of white religious zealots got on a boat and landed in somebody else’s country and then proceeded to wipe them out with smallpox, and steal all their shit.
Iowa Old Lady
American Christians who think they’re being persecuted need to get over themselves. I have no problem saying “You too” to someone who wishes me Merry Christmas. I wish them joy in celebrating their religious holiday. All I ask is that they extend the same courtesy to me.
Germy
curb your miss universe
Betty Cracker
@goblue72: Nobody (at least in the OP and this thread so far, anyway) is butt hurt about a sincere “Merry Christmas.” It’s the militant, in-your-face, yer-not-gonna-make-me-say-Happy-Holidays-hippie! brand of ultra-Christianist holiday bile that we’re objecting to.
schrodinger's cat
What is the need to wish people weeks in advance either for Christmas or generic Holidays?
gelfling545
My niece who is pagan responds with wishes for a Merry Yule. She says people look puzzled.
Mnemosyne
Tomorrow and Friday are the logical days to say “Merry Christmas,” so don’t be too shocked if there’s a sudden increase even at places you haven’t been hearing it.
I haven’t run into much Xmas aggression, but I always want to ask them what they have against New Year’s. Is it not a real holiday? Are they planning to work in protest? Stay home and read their Bibles rather than sinfully celebrate the end of another year? Inquiring minds want to know.
I got to tease my Fox-watching brother when he said that he and my mom aren’t having an Xmas tree. My response was, “What are you, communists?”
(It’s because they have young cats who will try to climb and/or eat a tree, but that’s no excuse!)
Adam L Silverman
What’s most amazing is they resurrected what was an anti-Semitic campaign from the 1920s. The War on Christmas was, originally, according to the crypto-fascists and their fellow travelers on the American Right, an international Jewish conspiracy to destroy Christianity. It was resurrected in the 1950s by the crypto-fascists descendants in that generation – the Birchers, with the string pullers morphing into the UN, internationalists, Communists, and those with cosmopolitan views. This still managed to overlap with anti-Semitism, the Birchers just painted with a broader brush. And now Fox has resurrected it and actually gotten what they wanted: people riled up, polarized, and angry over a holiday greeting! The Movement (movement conservatism) is always nihilistic and always looking for enemies to police its boundaries.
Mustang Bobby
@Betty Cracker:
I have a feeling that they would just love it if somehow it became illegal to say it. After all, Christianity is based on self-inflicted martyrdom.
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
When there are 2 major holidays 1 week apart, it’s more economical to say, “Happy holidays,” than, “Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.”
Why do you hate the New Year and want people to stop referring to its approach?
;-p
goblue72
@Betty Cracker: In your case, I can see it, since the cashier literally sotto voce’d you a “at least we can still say it.” But a lot of folks here are relaying stories where just said “Merry Christmas” and the listener is just CONVINCED they were rightwing religious nutbars being all aggro.
I’m seeing a lot of projection here.
Mike J
@Brachiator:
Winter Wonderland? Frosty the Snowman?
goblue72
@raven: What exactly did he say?
dexwood
My wife and I were settling up with the cashier at Target Sunday morning and the guy behind us was kind of chatty, friendly enough, but out of the blue he asked my wife if she says Merry Christmas. She said, “Merry Christmas, happy holidays, whatever comes to mind, I don’t care.” He said, “well, we Christians need to stick together, who are you voting for? I’m voting for Ben Carson.” I had had enough of him, settled up with the clerk, turned to him and asked, “what makes you think we’re christians? Not everyone is.” He started to sputter a reply, but I cut him off saying Carson is an idiot so I guess you are too. We walked away laughing.
japa21
@goblue72: I have never been offended by someone saying Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays, or whatever. I do think that some on the left challenged the propriety of saying Merry Christmas to someone whose belief system was unknown. I couldn’t care less.
What is more bothersome today is the militant aggressiveness of some of those who insist that the only proper greeting is Merry Christmas.
As said by several people above, you can get a sense when the greeting is more of a “in your face” challenge than a sincere wishing.
goblue72
@Mnemosyne: As a professional drinker, I consider New Year’s Eve to be Amateur Hour’s Eve.
goblue72
@japa21: So, like, you just “know” what the other person is thinking. Interesting.
Bill
I’ve started wishing everyone a Festive Kwanzaa
.
Miss Bianca
“At least it’s not illegal…yet.”
“Wow, and thank God we’re not living in the 17th century! Because, you know, our Christian forefathers would have had you put in the stocks or jailed for saying it! Yeah, I love separation of chuch and state, don’t you? MERRY FREAKING CHRISTMAS!””
Guaranteed to have them backing up, backing off, or calling security….
Ohio Mom
@Betty Cracker: Exactly. I’ve exchanged Christmas greetings and the occasional present my whole life, happily. Doesn’t threaten my sense of who I am in the least, typically do not bring up our religious differences, no need to. But those two yesterday had huge chips on their shoulders — never experienced that before.
terben
Ah Betty, the Airing of Grievances done in the best spirit. Happy Festivus!
jl
@Mike J: All good Christians know Jingle Bells is mandated in the Gospels.
The idea that the conventional modern Christmas ceremonies have anything to do with Christianity is absurd. They seem to be a mix of the more genteel elements of the original Saturnalia, and pagan Norse midwinter customs.
So, I say Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas, or Happy Saturnalia as the whim of the moment moves me, and I do not care a rat’s ass what others say, or what they expect, or whether I think I notice a malicious tribal gleam in their eye, so long as they neither pick my pocket nor break my leg.
Edit: and thanks to Balloon-Juice, I will remember to add ‘Happy Festivus’ to my repertoire of early Winter greetings.
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
So body language and tone of voice are insufficient for determining someone’s state of mind? Only the exact words count?
chopper
when someone says merry christmas i usually respond with gut yontiff confuses em for a second at least.
max
@Brachiator: And this morning, the Asian lady who sold me some donuts, after giving me change, said, “Oh, I forgot. Merry Xmas.” I think she was just being friendly, so I shot back a “Happy Holidays” to her, just to be option friendly. And I made a note to make sure to go by her shop come Chinese New Year. Cause that’s how I roll.
I fucked up an hour or two ago and said, ‘Oh… Merry Christmas!’
I should, of course, have continued my war on conformism by saying ‘Merry Festivus and Happy Christmas’.
max
[‘Oh, well, I was a little distracted.’]
FlipYrWhig
I don’t especially like the “Merry” part either. Have you ever used the word “merry” outside of “… Christmas”? I feel like that just comes from the Dickens Christmas shebang — which by the way is exceedingly pagan on every level.
ETA I think I tend to say “Have a good Christmas” to people I know celebrate it. “Merry” is just too silly to say.
Keith P
I just want to have a nice greeting that I can automatically say without having to think too much about it. I only know one family that would make a big deal out of not using “Christmas”, mainly because the wife is recently retired and spends a large chunk of her day watching Fox News. Last year (or maybe the year before), was a big discussion about how the Duck Dynasty family are being persecuted, and every year, it’s like that….some hotbed issue du jour on Fox that has to be the center point of a holiday celebration.
geg6
@goblue72:
I usually just say “And to you,” but I have had that same experience of feeling it was said in a very aggressive way, with lots of body language indicating gearing up to have an argument. To say that non-verbal cues are illegitimate tells me you must have a lot of trouble interpreting them yourself. No judgement, but maybe you’re the one with the problem.
jl
The only time I have been taken aback by criticism of my Holiday/Christmas/New Years customs, was in grad school. A couple of graduate students from Africa were taken aback by the selfishness and barbarity shown by people in the US in not observing boxing day.
I mean, jeesh, so rich we all were, and could not even spare some change to get little gifts for the postperson, other people we had continuing, even if rather tenuous, business with? WTF?
These were people from former English colonies. I remember it started with I saw a friend of mine trying to attach a boxing day present for the mailman at the mail boxes in my grad school apartment. I asked what the heck he was doing.
Mustang Bobby
In Welsh it’s ‘n arab Nadolig. But it’s got “arab” in there so you might get Homeland Security on your ass if you say it. Better to go with Nadolig llawen a blwyddyn newydd dda, which combines Christmas and New Year’s greetings.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: Sounds like fun. Any hints for when I try it?
Mike in NC
The FOX News phony “War on Christmas” is merely one item on their menu for aggrieved old conservative white people, who love to reference ‘political correctness’ in their rambling Letters to the Editor. They don’t actually understand the term, but O’Reilly and Limbaugh and Hannity repeat it over and over.
Personally, I think being ‘PC’ means they can’t use their favorite ethnic slurs in public at present, but Trump plans to fix that as part of his plan to make America great again. (How come he never states when America stopped being great in the first place? 1865? 1964? 2008?)
Goblue72
@Mnemosyne: If someone is screaming at you, it’s reasonable to infer they are angry.
But there’s a lot of reading between the lines here amongst folks who are pre-meditated to get their nose out of joint over a “Merry Christmas.”
srv
Shorter cracker: Bah humbug!
Iowa Old Lady
@Mike in NC: I see the War on Christmas resentment expressed more by pundits than by people I meet every day, and there are lots of Evangelicals in Iowa. Most people are content to live and let live.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@gelfling545: They go from puzzled to pissed when you explain that the winter solstice, Yule, is the holiday adopted as Xmas as Xtianity migrated to and through northern Europe. I mean, someone who did that a few times told me that’s what happens.
Shana
FWIW, when someone wishes me “Merry Christmas” I usually just say something like “Well, it’s not a holiday I celebrate, but thank you and Happy Holidays to you.” I’m jewish, in an area that’s pretty multi-cultural, lots of asians, lots of middle easterners, lots of southeast asians – Northern Virginia, suburbs of DC – but you still get a fair number of the intolerant xian-types too.
Of course in my younger, less patients days I’d get pretty tired of Merry Christmas by the end of the season and start snapping at people.
Bill
@goblue72:
I’m an atheist too, and I don’t know a singles atheist – or person “on the left” – who gets butthurt over a sincere “Merry Christmas.”
mmeep
I moved back to the Midwest from CA eight years ago, near the holidays, and was immediately confronted (as if I had wide-angle horse vision while doing acid) by Mao-ist building-size images of Jeebus, sort of a downscale version of hell reminiscent of the wonderful rainy Los Angeles in “Blade Runner” and a rib joint whose electronic sign proclaimed, “Happy Birthday, Jesus” WITH NO IRONY AT ALL, and now I’ve gotten used to it. But my all-time favorite church sign (and you have to be an aficionado to truly enjoy the competing signage) was one that read, “Merry Christmas! Oops, can we say that?” and I’m all “gee, 99 fucking percent Christian and you’re still worried??” So it’s a thing, Betty. I work in a rather public job, and like the saying goes, once you can fake sincerity the rest is easy. Merry Christmas, one and all (of you nutjobs)! Fuck ’em.
Botsplainer
Stalin was right in his treatment of religion. Close their churches, re-educate the fervent, jail the leaders…
mm
I always say Merry Christmas.
I’m Jewish and I feel that if it wasn’t Christmas season, many Christians wouldn’t give a flying f*ck about anybody else’s religion. So it just seems hypocritical to me for them to say happy holidays or season’s greetings.
They understand nothing about Jewish holidays, cannot understand why I might want to take off for major holidays like Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah.
Chanukah seems like such a made up holiday for the kids to get presents when all their gentile friends do.
ShadeTail
@Goblue72: Wow, you sure are an arrogant little pissant, aren’t you? You weren’t there, you have no idea what went down, and yet you have the gall to accuse *them* of projecting? Get over yourself.
mm
And further,
I have no problem with Christmas Trees and holiday music. They aren’t religious symbols. I object to a Menorah on the City Hall lawn as well as a display of the 3 wise men. Those are religious symbols and have no place in the public square.
srv
Even that comedian guy is hedging his bets:
goblue72
@geg6: I don’t actually have problems with that. I spent a large part of my professional day sussing people out.
As I noted, seems to me that a lot of folks here are pre-disposed to get their nose of joint / be annoyed by “Merry Christmas”. Predispositions have a tendency to color perceptions. There’s a reason eye witness testimony tends to be quite unreliable.
Pogonip
@Goblue72: On the bright side , it gives them extra opportunities to complain about Jeebus. Still waiting to hear their names for other religious figures such as Buddha and Mohammed. Not that I’m in favor of childish nasty nicknames for religious figures, just curious as to what they’ll come up with.
And they wonder why Democrats can’t win elections…
Schlemazel
BETTY! I don’t know why I didn’t remember this for your thread on the dreaded holiday letter, it is perfect. Its a Tom Waits song: christmas-card-from-a-hooker-in-minneapolis
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
Maybe it’s an Ohio thing. I’ve had a few people wish me Merry Christmas, then stare at me very hard, waiting for my reaction. Both times, I said, “Backatcha,” and walked away.
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
Just to confuse you even more, in the UK they say, “Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year.” No idea why or how it got swapped on the trip over the Atlantic, and not sufficiently curious to try and find out.
Iowa Old Lady
I suspect retail workers are the ones who take the real brunt of the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays resentment. As if working retail at Christmas wasn’t already hard enough.
Pogonip
@mm: Well, if it makes you feel better, I understand. If I were president Jewish Federal employees would be permitted to come to work on 25 December and then take their own holiday off, likewise other religions, and I’d encourage all other employers to do the same.
In Bexley, Ohio, the members of a Jewish men’s club have a long tradition of manning the emergency dispatch lines on Christmas so as many officers as possible can have the holiday. This is certainly a more constructive approach to religious differences than snarling “Merry Christmas!” or whining about same. And let’s not forget the Moslems on the bus! I toast those brave and good people (with a Coke Zero, not booze).
I have no problem with atheism, either. My problem is with jerks.
Joel
The Christmas/Holidays thing is just one of those things where I searched my pockets and couldn’t find a single fuck to give.
Pogonip
@Iowa Old Lady: Lord, yes. My mom worked retail for years. It’s a horrible job at best. And now I go in a store in December and the clerk will say, timidly, “Happy holidays?” hoping I won’t flip out on her. At least Mom didn’t have to deal with that.
JustRuss
@Mike in NC: As far as I can tell, the only War On Xmas is being waged by movie studios that debut their blockbusters on December 25. And of course sports events scheduled on that day. Has Bill O’Reilly ever ranted about that?
goblue72
@Pogonip: No kidding. But I am sure someone at some point will put a spaghetti strainer on their head and claim its their religion because “ha ha”.
Meanwhile, a buddy of mine with a sense of class that is a mile deep and who is Muslim posted a “Merry Christmas” post on his FB page earlier this week wishing all his Christian friends a Merry Christmas. And during Ramadan, we will likely be returning the favor, as well as teasing him about how tasty our lunch sandwich is.
I mean, shit, there’s a heck of a lot more valuable and interesting – or even, dare I say, cheerful – things Betty could have posted. Instead, she went out of her way to publicly bitch because some random cashier at some grocery store in bumfuk Florida on December 23rd conspiratorially said Merry Christmas to her.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Iowa Old Lady: Even getting to work is difficult if you work at a mall, I’ve been the wife’s driver for the last 4 weeks.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@debbie: It’s certainly quite a SW Ohio thing, at least for the last 5 years. Old white pissed off Protestants (sort of) making sure the pagans and other heathens understand their contempt for such lowlife types. I tend to smile and tell them I’m not Xian, but enjoy the festive season and hope that they have a joyous holiday themselves. Depending on the circumstances, I’m occasionally sincere.
Genuine holiday wishes expressed as Merry Xmas are always returned with a smile and Happy Christmas to you as well, or some such. I understand how Xian became the default assumption, and I’m happy to be gracious in reply to good wishes offered as such, as opposed to with aggressive condescension.
Cheryl from Maryland
When I was in elementary school in the South during the 1960’s, two Jewish students in my class were not allowed to make up tests which fell during Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Hanukkah (although they often were at school during Hanukkah). With a great deal of commotion, that proscription was finally dropped, but like most little kids with an overdeveloped sense of justice, I was struck by the crazy unfairness of it. That this stupidity is coming back is wretched.
debbie
@MattF:
I’m also reading that book. I wonder if the author is intentionally comparing the Puritans to the Tea Party?
goblue72
@Pogonip: That’s how a prior firm I worked at handled it. Dec 24 and 25th were the baseline holidays. You could take those two days off – or, if you were of some other religion, you could work those days and instead take Yom Kippur & Rosh Hashanah off, or some other set of days, depending on your choice. Most of the non-Christian employees were Jewish, so typically those folks would take off for YK/RH.
Bg
@Arm The Homeless: We got a “happy holidays, have a great day” from a cashier in the Key Largo Publix right before Betty posted this, is why I asked
debbie
@chopper:
That was my usual holiday greeting when I lived in New York and it didn’t seem to bother anyone. I get looks of dismay from observant Jews when I say it here in central Ohio. Can’t figure why, but have no wish to enter some sort of Talmudic debate with them.
The Other Chuck
@goblue72: Hey Philip Glass, find a new note. Maybe a new thread to bitch in. And Happy Festivus to you too.
Tim from MI
True Story –
My wife and I went to a birthday party at a bowling alley a few weeks ago. There was a Santa there that was making the rounds. As he approached, I wished him, “Merry Christmas”, and my wife said, “Happy Holidays”. I immediately thought, “uh, oh”. Sure enough, we received a several minute lecture on why we should say the former and not the latter. We politely tolerated it, but the whole time I’m thinking, “I can’t believe I’m getting the tea bagger treatment from freaking Santa!”. Why does no one, and I mean no one, in the media refer to this as ‘political correctness’?
Enhanced Voting Techinques
Again, Christmas is a pagan holiday with a Monotheistic make over. A hundred years ago a these same Christians would have been protesting the celibration of something so unChristian at all, so doubtlessly as soon as “Merry Christmas” is being said by everyone they will just flip back to Christmas is EVIL,’ cause drama queens have to drama.
And speaking as a godmocking unbeliver – Merry Christmas to you all.
So there.
Mnemosyne
@Pogonip:
That can get surprisingly messy in workplaces where you don’t have or need 24/7 staff. At one of my old workplaces, we had a guy who was a Jehovah’s Witness and really wanted to work on Christmas Day for religious reasons, but it would have required opening the building just for him, so the company said no.
Many workplaces offer “floating holidays” now that allow people to take their religious holidays off (and I remember hearing a lot of bitching from people who wanted to get Good Friday as an official paid holiday and not have to use one of “their” floating holidays for it).
Christmas is weird because it’s not just a religious holiday, it’s also a federal holiday, so you start getting into labor laws that require overtime pay on that day and other such things.
FlipYrWhig
@Pogonip:
Democrats lose elections because atheists are mean to Christians on the Internet?
FlipYrWhig
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: Even _A Christmas Carol_ isn’t concerned with marking the birth of Christ. It’s all about gift-giving and eating and game-playing and hearty fellowship.
Trentrunner
I personally like the time-honored well-placed “Oh, fuck the fuck off.”
Hungry Joe
As a Jewish atheist I just can’t make myself say “Merry Christmas” — it’s enough that I have to hear it all the time, and be smothered in red, green, and tinsel. Still, when someone says “Merry Christmas” to me I assume it’s meant well, and I come back with a smile (most of the time, anyway) and a “Same to you.” As for retail clerks, I knew all too well what their work lives are like, and somebody would have have a swastika tattoo to make me give him a hard time about ANYTHING.
Linnaeus
Visiting my family for the holidays, and one of the houses in their neighborhood has a sign that says, “It’s OK to say Merry Christmas”. Right down the street from a car that has a bumper sticker that says, “Marriage = man + woman”.
Happy Holidays.
Betty Cracker
@goblue72: The commenter above who called you an “arrogant little pissant” had it exactly right.
Pogonip
@FlipYrWhig: Well, there are many reasons, but a big one is definitely the open contempt for a religion practiced by a large number of voters. (Consider how devout Juiceists might react if Jesus and his followers went out of their way to make sneering references to Butty Cracker.). They’d do better to pick on a religion that commands Thou Shalt Not Vote.
Pogonip
@debbie: What does gut yontiff mean?
JustRuss
@FlipYrWhig: Sure, but A Christmas Carol also has ghosts and spirits, which are straight out of the Bible,….aren’t they?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@goblue72: According to the NORC’s GSS, 21% of Americans had no religion in 2014, vs. 7% in 1990. 28% are “Conservative Christians” It won’t be long until they’re even more of a minority that they worry about becoming…
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
A Streeter
No one’s corrected me about “Happy Holidays” yet, but if it happened my inclination would be to respond, “Well then, sad and dreary holidays, if that’s how you like them.”
Pogonip
@goblue72: Somebody who watched too much Fox said ” Merry Christmas” to her. The horror! The horror!
a different chris
@Mike in NC:
As Stewart Lee said…
chopper
@Pogonip:
“good holiday”
Jacel
I keep wishing to have the presence of mind and absence of filters at the moment when greeted “Merry Christmas!” in that conspiratorial way, to respond with, “It’s still Advent season, you dumbass heretic!”
lamh36
Merry Christmas from NOLA!
Louis Armstrong, Christmas in New Orleans
a different chris
Must be nice to live someplace where you don’t know that it’s not unusual for people to use ‘Merry Christmas’ as a test to see if you’re the right sort of person or not. Come to Mississippi. You’ll learn.
Tony J
@Mnemosyne:
No we don’t. Okay, to be strictly honest I’ve occasionally heard ‘Happy Christmas’ (Happy having two very clear syllables, equally stressed) and even said it myself, but never, ever ‘Merry New Year’. That’s always ‘Happy New Year’, usually shouted very loudly while drunk.
Jolly Holidays!
FlipYrWhig
@Pogonip: I really don’t think that’s a factor, any more than Republicans’ open hatred of all manner of people, places, things and ideas has any impact on their won-lost record. If the side with more obnoxious dicks lost elections, we’d have won every election since Pericles.
Pogonip
@FlipYrWhig: Well, that depends on what you consider most obnoxious. I maintain that going out of your way to insult the majority religion is not a smart political move. Going out of your way to insult any religion is merely a dickhead move, e.g. Donald Trump. It can pay off politically but it’s a wicked thing to do.
Pogonip
@Jacel: *chortle*. I like it! May try it myself.
Pogonip
@chopper: Same to you!
(Had I ever heard anyone say “Gut yotniff!” I’d have probably responded with “Gesundheit!”)
Pogonip
@JustRuss: They certainly are. The Witch of Endor summons Samuel’s ghost. The Holy Spirit conceives with Mary and descends upon the apostles at Pentecost; contrariwise, a whole passel of evil spirits is forced out of the Gadarene fellow and into a herd of pigs which the evil spirits then drown ( I always wondered if the pigs’ owner sent the bill to Jesus or to Satan). And on and on and on.
Pogonip
For my last word (you’re welcome!) on this topic, those who wish to enlist in the War on Christmas should consult my father, the commanding general thereof; he’s been grinching for at least 66 years. Oddly enough, he’s also a loyal O’Reilly viewer.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Hungry Joe: Check yer email…
east is east
@Hungry Joe: As a liberal atheist, I have no problem with anyone saying Merry Christmas. It’s an expression of—hey, good luck and we are all in this together—–When did the left get so stupid as to not just say Merry Christmas. It’s like Happy Birthday. You don’t have to fucking mean it.
Shell
Whats funny is these Christmas Greeting -police think they’re somehow getting one up on all us godless secularists. But as Cole pointed out above, nobody really gives a good god-damn how you salute the season. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Seasons Greetings, its all good as far as Im concerned.
********
And as I noted before, TCM’s lineup of movies is just what the ‘Put Christ Back In Christmas’ crowd would want. Right now they’re finishing up “King Of Kings”. Or as it was known in production “I Was A Teenage Jesus.”
Karen
When someone wishes me “Merry Christmas” sometimes I say I don’t celebrate but thank you. However, as I’m outnumbered as a Jewish person, I automatically say “Merry Christmas.” I say it like “Have a nice day.” It makes people smile and it’s no skin off my nose.
phein55
Have a Christ-ey, Christ-ey Christmas,
It’s the best time of the year,
Lord Almighty have a
Christ-ey Christ-ey Christmas, this year!
JDM
My go to response when someone says something like what the cashier leaned forward and said is to put a big smile on my face and gently say, “don’t be stupid”. The smile confuses them, but it’s genuine; I’m trying really hard not to laugh out loud at them.
Sometimes I change it up and say, with the smile, “I’m sorry, but that’s a load of horseshit”.
dianne
I was at a large store (initials: JCP) two weeks ago and was in line while the clerk regaled the lady ahead of me with his complaint that he was told to say “happy holidays” and he said “I do but I’m quietly sad inside”. Then he went into his take on the situation while the rest of us had to wait and wait while he unloaded his angst. Finally, I got up to the counter and he asked me how I felt about it all. I told him since I don’t watch Fox News, I don’t buy into the bogus war on Christmas BS and just don’t care what people say. “Oh, he said. I just like to see how people feel” Clearly, he expected outrage on my part.
He really is doing his employer a disservice by not just getting us all through the line in a quick and efficient manner instead of turning what should have been a commercial transaction into a rant against his employer.
I left but since I’m in a red district of a very blue state, I’m sure he found more people in agreement with him than not. And probably turned some away from shopping there in he future which will impact his own job eventually. What a dope.
Pinacacci`
I work retail in a toy store no less, and have been exchanging greetings with many, many shoppers…it is easy to tell the difference between those who are sincere (almost everybody) and those who are challenging you to (be a christian/be christianically correct/be a fellow foxite/join the fight because they see saying “Merry Christmas” as a weapon in a war because they are pathetically deluded about their ongoing American Martyrdom).
Response varies, “you too” or “Have a fun Christmas” usually…
Just chiming in with those who claim to be able to tell who is being aggressive about it. Because it’s usually obvious.