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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Late Night Year-End Leftovers Open Thread

Late Night Year-End Leftovers Open Thread

by Anne Laurie|  December 30, 20152:05 am| 43 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Open Threads, Just Shut the Fuck Up

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I don't see if, unless the RNC offers to get him on swing state ballots. https://t.co/dyPwhmxvDH

— daveweigel (@daveweigel) December 28, 2015

Speaking of minor prospective candidates whose announcements you might’ve missed over the holidays, Jim Webb must’ve had a bad family Christmas, because on Saturday morning he put up a long facebook rant complaining that Hillary Clinton just doesn’t have the testosterone to be a real commander in chief — too busy talking about “partners” and “saving lives”, as women are so prone to do. Then he and his twitter-friends started trading quips about how maybe Webb should run as an independent, a prospect highly exciting for political horserace touts like the guys at Bloomberg Politics:

… A run by Webb, who often manages his own social media accounts and has also used them recently to promote a petition in favor of his run and to deliver kudos to Bernie Sanders in his battles with the Democratic National Committee (“nothing more than an arm for the Clinton campaign,” Webb tweeted), could further complicate the already unpredictable 2016 election.

While observers typically have analyzed the prospect of a third-party or independent run by Republican front-runner Donald Trump—or even one from Sanders—Webb could still alter the dynamics of the race even with his smaller profile.

A recent CNN poll, for instance, forecast tight races between Clinton and several Republican contenders in hypothetical match-ups for the general election. Webb’s campaign has told Bloomberg Politics it would concentrate on mobilizing voters in the ideological middle, along with people who have become dissatisfied with politics…

Webb could also get a boost from the organizers of the general election debates, who are preparing for the possibility of three candidates onstage, albeit ones who thus far, have managed to command far more support than Webb the roughly one percent of Democratic support Webb managed to muster by the time he quote the race…

For some reason, self-proclaimed “centrism” or not, it’s the yakkers on the right to far-right side of the aisle who seem most excited about another “independent” vote-leaching candidate. And one with a history of shooting off his mouth, quite often in the direction of his own foot, too!

I very much doubt this will go beyond increasing Jim Webb’s visibility on what Calvin Trillin called the Sabbathday Gasbag broadcasts, but at least now you’ll know what the jokes are about.

Nothing says "Well-oiled campaign" like a Christmas weekend trial balloon where the spox doesn't return calls pic.twitter.com/o9fvar97v8

— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) December 27, 2015

No, Jim Webb Probably Would Not Be A Viable Independent Candidate For President https://t.co/POHSy3QgVc

— Doug Mataconis (@dmataconis) December 28, 2015

But that's never been an obstacle to appearing on Morning Joe. https://t.co/C8rdMKiad5

— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) December 28, 2015

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Previous Post: « Open Thread: One More Klown Down, But JEB! Clings On…
Next Post: Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Slog Onwards »

Reader Interactions

43Comments

  1. 1.

    NotMax

    December 30, 2015 at 2:23 am

    Same empty speculation every four years.

  2. 2.

    Karmus

    December 30, 2015 at 2:25 am

    This is, of course, good news for John McCain.

  3. 3.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    December 30, 2015 at 2:31 am

    Is he this year’s Unity ’08/No Labels model?

  4. 4.

    Citizen Alan

    December 30, 2015 at 2:44 am

    “Following the Nader playbook”??? Jesus tap-dancing Christ. I VOTED for Nader and I don’t have any use for someone following the Nader playbook.

  5. 5.

    amk

    December 30, 2015 at 2:47 am

    I will have what bloomberg is having.

  6. 6.

    Rashi

    December 30, 2015 at 2:52 am

    What does Webb have to sell that anyone wants to buy?

  7. 7.

    a different chris

    December 30, 2015 at 3:28 am

    All Jim Webb’s testosterone still couldn’t keep him from being beat by a girl and a Socialist.

  8. 8.

    Mike J

    December 30, 2015 at 3:45 am

    4.4 in socal, 4.8 in Victoria and I can see a volcano from my window. Well, I can’t see it right now,. It’s dark. I suppose if it starts erupting, I’ll be able to see it.

  9. 9.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 30, 2015 at 4:15 am

    @Mike J: You probably don’t see that volcano much in the daytime either(I know I didn’t).

  10. 10.

    EconWatcher

    December 30, 2015 at 4:16 am

    As a former Virginia resident, I remain grateful to Webb for ending the shameful, odious career of George Allen. And I think Webb is a multi-talented guy (warrior, writer, etc.) As a Senator, he was also several years ahead of the curve in trying to start a national conversation about our messed up criminal justice system, including our ludicrously high incarceration rates.

    But someone who loves him needs to tell him that political leadership isn’t one of his talents. He has no sense of timing or ability to market ideas. He accomplished virtually nothing as a Senator, and when his heart was in the right place, he couldn’t sell it. Plus, he really embarrassed himself on the Rebel flag.

    Having read his attack on Hillary’s foreign policy, while I sort of agree with him on Libya, I doubt that was actually Hillary’s call, and I didn’t find it compelling on the whole.

    But I saw absolutely nothing sexist in it, no reference that could possibly refer to testosterone or what “women are prone to do.” In fact, it seemed pretty clear he was criticising both Clinton and Obama, with more focus on Clinton because she’s the one running for President.

    Did I miss something, or do you just throw accusations of sexism at any man who criticizes Hillary? if the latter, do you think this is helpful in getting men to take sexism seriously? Just curious.

  11. 11.

    BGinCHI

    December 30, 2015 at 4:33 am

    @EconWatcher: There are things I like about Webb too (esp. beating that fucking George Allen). But as you say, he’s really not a leader for anything resembling a pluralistic entity. He would be a terrific mayor in a city that has corruption, or maybe even a governor.

    That FB “rant” doesn’t seem sexist to me, but it does seem wrong-headed. He’s saying that HRC fucked up (in doing Obama’s foreign policy bidding, btw) by not understanding the consequences of doing regime change in the Middle East. But there is the supposition that if you have a better strategy, or tactics, you can do it properly. If he said explicitly that there is no good way to intervene in the ME without unleashing these kinds of religious fanatics, then I would understand where he is coming from. But, unless he is a complete isolationist, I don’t see what he’s offering.

    The problem with international diplomacy and geopolitical tinkering is that you always, if you are competent, do the best you can, but are then a prisoner of forces that may act such that nothing works out.

    The problem with Republicans and Reactionaries is that they don’t have good faith, thus they don’t really try, since they see the military option as the strongest part of diplomacy.

    Hence war. Hence profit.

  12. 12.

    EconWatcher

    December 30, 2015 at 4:41 am

    @BGinCHI:

    On balance, in the majorly f’ed up environment of the Middle East, the least horrible choice was probably to leave Saddam, Qaddafi, and Assad in place, while containing them with embargoes, no-fly zones, etc,–not an isolationist stance, but not an interventionist one either. Webb seems to be saying this at least of Qaddafi. And if so, I agree with him on that.

  13. 13.

    David Koch

    December 30, 2015 at 4:50 am

    I don’t see how Webb takes votes away from Clinton, especially running to her right on intervention.

  14. 14.

    EconWatcher

    December 30, 2015 at 5:00 am

    @David Koch:

    Unless my reading comprehension has lapsed (always a possiblity), I think Webb’s comment is actually to the “left” of Clinton on intervention (if left and right are meaningful terms here).

    Webb is saying that the U.S. did not properly think through the implications of helping to oust Qaddafi, which helped lead to the rise of ISIS and more instability in the Middle East. He notes that Qaddafi, however much of a monster, was actually suppressing radical Islamism, and when that suppression was removed, the result was worse for us. If I’m reading him correctly, I agree, and I would say the same for Saddam and Assad.

    I think you may have been misled by AL’s diatribe about testosterone and “what women are prone to do” (a bit ironic that she accuses Webb of a “rant”). Webb appears actually to be advocating more thinking about long-term consequences and less “testosterone” (ie, less thoughtless ousting of bad guys, who may be replaced by worse guys).

  15. 15.

    Keith G

    December 30, 2015 at 5:14 am

    @EconWatcher: Interesting assessments.

  16. 16.

    David Koch

    December 30, 2015 at 5:31 am

    @EconWatcher: Thanks, Econ. I didn’t read that. what I had in mind when I posted that is his opposition to the iran deal.

    He criticized President Obama’s Iran deal, which Webb said will let the regime in Tehran “eventually acquire a nuclear weapon.” The administration negotiated with Iran from “a position of weakness and I think it encouraged” its ally in Russia to engross itself in the region over “the past several weeks,”

    I also forgot how he supports the Confederate flag.

  17. 17.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 30, 2015 at 5:40 am

    @David Koch: Iran seems to be abiding by the terms of the deal having sent a bunch of uranium to Russia yesterday(saw it on LOD yesterday).

  18. 18.

    EconWatcher

    December 30, 2015 at 6:01 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    The Iran deal is about the only positive recent development I can think of in the Middle East, of any significance. I’ve always thought we’d have a better shot over the long haul of developing an actually beneficial relationship with Iran than with, say, a “friend” like Saudi Arabia.

  19. 19.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    December 30, 2015 at 6:09 am

    @EconWatcher:
    A friend of mine from Tehran is visiting family in Iran at the moment. I get a very different view of the country through her. Including some spectacular scenery, as she’s a snowboarder. Iran would be a great partner for the US, but I don’t see that happening soon. It’s a shame because it’s relatively stable and shares numerous mutual interests with us.

  20. 20.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 30, 2015 at 6:23 am

    @EconWatcher: @Ultraviolet Thunder: Except the whole “Death to America” thing.

    [/snark]

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 30, 2015 at 6:24 am

    “According to ESPN.com, some unfortunate soul put down $165,000 on the Seahawks to beat the Rams straight up — despite the meager $15,000 potential payoff.” In case you don’t know (and why would you? it’s the lambs) the Rams won.

    There’s a sucker born every minute.

  22. 22.

    raven

    December 30, 2015 at 6:30 am

    Fuck Webb.

  23. 23.

    Peale

    December 30, 2015 at 6:34 am

    I should be happy that the Internet link on the plane is working for a change. But the only reason I’m paying for it is because the the entertainment system that I paid united airlines for as part of my ticket is broken and I have a 12 hour flight ahead of me without a movie. I know, I know, I shouldn’t complain. There’s more to life than getting what you paid for. And these newfangled systems are bound to break down. Heck, I rarely fly united airlines and this is the second time this has happened to me on one of their flights in the past three years.

    Yeah, I hate to bemoan what is really a first world problem. And really things are much better entertainment wise on planes than those dark ages when there would be only one heavily edited family friendly inoffensive movie available for everyone. But you see the thing is, in my 30 years of flying, the personal entertainment system is really one of the few things about the flying experience that’s improved. The seats are smaller. On a lot of coach domestic flights you have to pay for a meal now. Luggage is a premium. Choosing your seats is a premium. The airlines are now even selling the ability to skip rough the awful security gates more quickly. Fuck. It’s been 10 years since the shoe shit head…can we keep our shoes on now?

    What’s pissing me off, I think is that on the United Flight from Newark to Denver I took earlier this week to transfer to Tokyo I also didn’t have a working in flight entertainment system. Well I did. But because I was in coach, it wasn’t turned on unless I swiped a credit card to pay for it. Until I figured out how to turn the damn screen off, I was subjected to a continuous advertising loop on the content that would be available were I willing to whip out a card and pay a little extra. United has figured out how to make in flight entertainment profitable and optional on domestic flights, obviously. And so another thing that used to be “included in the price of a ticket” has been taken away, domestically. Or at least on flights of less than 5 hours.

    I guess I shouldn’t complain, and I’m glad the Internet access I paid a little extra for is working this time. I normally wouldn’t pay for such things, but what the hell. I got nothing else better to do for 12 hours. I might as well use my time venting about how United airlines has pissed me off. The flight attendenant assures me that he’ll personally see to it that I’m put in touch with the customer service office when I land. Venting a little now should help so I don’t go off on another airline employee who can’t fix the problem.

  24. 24.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 30, 2015 at 6:44 am

    @Peale:

    I guess I shouldn’t complain,

    Oh bullshit, you’re being held prisoner** in an over crowded cell with inadequate food and water, and what is more, they are making you pay for it.

    *seriously, the ACLU would be all over any jail or prison in a ny second over conditions like those in a plane

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 30, 2015 at 6:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: OK, I was a little hyperbolic about the inadequate food and hydration, sue me.

  26. 26.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 30, 2015 at 6:54 am

    For some reason, self-proclaimed “centrism” or not, it’s the yakkers on the right to far-right side of the aisle who seem most excited about another “independent” vote-leaching candidate.

    Since Bush soiled the Republican brand, with the Tea Partiers making it even worse, ‘moderate’ conservatives, who want to grind minorities and the poor while being praised as mature, wise adults, have felt a yearning to prove that people like Trump and Akin do not represent their beliefs. They’re sure that Democrats are just waiting to adopt their… well, basically they want another Reagan Revolution. Also, they’re too mature to be partisans.

    @EconWatcher:
    NATO, with support of the Arab League, helped oust Qaddafi, in the middle of a violent civil war that was entirely locally started. We started the aerial action at the request of all three parties (including the rebels), who could not react before a military engagement where Qaddafi promised to slaughter an entire city of hundreds of thousands of people. The words ‘regime change’ that are being thrown around are technically accurate, but wildly misleading. People act like we decided on our own initiative to remove a dictator we didn’t like, turning a stable country into chaos, which isn’t even close to true.

  27. 27.

    Peale

    December 30, 2015 at 6:59 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: yeah. For the most part this plane is clean. Unlike, say, the United airlines flight I took to Tokyo earlier this week that had a lavatory without a working sink. Felt a little awkward not washing my hands after I pee’d, but hey, at least the toilet flushed and we didn’t have to pay a nickel to use it. (Don’t give them ideas).

    The plane is otherwise clean. I’ll give them that. It helps having about half the seats taken up by Japanese and the rest mainly Americans. Few Europeans, who I’ve noticed tend to just throw their trash I the floors of planes (yeah…I’m looking at you Germans and Dutchmen. You know who you are!!!)

  28. 28.

    Just One More Canuck

    December 30, 2015 at 7:07 am

    @Mike J: @BillinGlendaleCA: it depends on which volcano. I grew up in Victoria and could see Mt. Baker easily

  29. 29.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 30, 2015 at 7:21 am

    @Just One More Canuck: But I bet you couldn’t see it most days(rain, ya know). I’ve seen Mt. Baker pretty well from Dungeness Spit.

  30. 30.

    EconWatcher

    December 30, 2015 at 7:23 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I’m aware that threat to civilians was a big reason for intervention. But the threat may have been hyped, and after Iraq we should certainly be asking whether our interventions will help civilians. https://newrepublic.com/article/121879/hillary-clinton-should-take-blame-disastrous-libyan-intervention

  31. 31.

    Just One More Canuck

    December 30, 2015 at 7:41 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: From where I lived in Victoria, on a clear day I could see both Mt. Baker and Hurricane Ridge – but not many clear days in the winter.

    We stopped at Dungeness Spit last year on our way from Mt. St Helens to Victoria – had some time to kill before the ferry left. Mt. St Helens blew all our minds (my daughter’s especially) but the whole trip reminded me just how awesomely beautiful that part of the US and Canada is

  32. 32.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    December 30, 2015 at 7:51 am

    @Citizen Alan:

    LOL. You gave me a good laugh to start the morning.

  33. 33.

    msdc

    December 30, 2015 at 7:58 am

    @EconWatcher: Not the first time an AL summary has borne little to no relation to the linked article.

    That said, “studying the Nader playbook” alone is enough to disqualify Webb from any higher office.

  34. 34.

    raven

    December 30, 2015 at 7:59 am

    @Just One More Canuck: Where’s Doe Bay in relation to that? I camped there once.

  35. 35.

    raven

    December 30, 2015 at 8:06 am

    @raven: I guess I mean Orcas.

  36. 36.

    Just One More Canuck

    December 30, 2015 at 8:16 am

    @raven: Orcas island is east of Victoria/north of Seattle, about half way between Victoria and Mount Baker. Dungeness Spit is near Port Angeles, south of Victoria/northwest of Seattle

    did you do any sea kayaking while you were there?

  37. 37.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    December 30, 2015 at 9:10 am

    Webb will give the Hillbots someone safe to vote for when Bernie wins the nomination.

  38. 38.

    FlipYrWhig

    December 30, 2015 at 9:19 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Nothing Hillary Clinton supporters like better than a crotchety, cantankerous sexist!

  39. 39.

    Tom

    December 30, 2015 at 9:38 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Given that this is the message from the GOP candidates as well, I don’t see this as a big issue.

  40. 40.

    Joel

    December 30, 2015 at 9:52 am

    @EconWatcher: Well, Iran is more democratic, for one. And we have more common adversaries.

  41. 41.

    liberal

    December 30, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    We started the aerial action at the request of all three parties (including the rebels), who could not react before a military engagement where Qaddafi promised to slaughter an entire city of hundreds of thousands of people.

    That’s simply bullshit. And Qaddafi’s actions after that show that it’s bullshit.

  42. 42.

    Howlin Wolfe

    December 30, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    @EconWatcher: I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Iran.

    Our policy toward Iran, much like that toward Cuba, is based more on a grudge, which is based on a well-deserved poke in our eye because we overthrew their democratically elected government in the ’50s and installed the brutal regime of the Shah.

  43. 43.

    Morfydd

    December 30, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    @raven: Have you been to Doe Bay in the last 10 years? I went about 14 years ago and the owners were just infuriatingly terrible – rude, incompetent, and they’d let the whole place decay. About ten years ago new owners came in, sold about a third of the property to pay for renovating the rest, and they’ve really turned it around. A friend went to a festival there this fall and said they’re still keeping the positive momentum. It’s a beautiful place.

    Visiting family in Port Angeles this week and the earthquake shook the house for about 30 seconds. Twitter was on it in under a minute, which was amusing.

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