Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Donald Trump, welcome to your everything, everywhere, all at once.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

A consequence of cucumbers

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

When we show up, we win.

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Let there be snark.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: CLAANNNNNNG

Thursday Morning Open Thread: CLAANNNNNNG

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ballard acappella racoon cymbals

(Ballard Street via GoComics.com)
.

That raccoon is my spirit animal for the new year.

***********
What’s on the agenda for the day and/or Amateur Night New Year’s Eve?

Reader Interactions

170Comments

  3. 3.

    magurakurin

    @raven: The best part about that thread, though, was the way that a discussion about whether or not you should blow your stack led to people blowing their stacks.

    Happy New Year ya filthy animals. I got about 3 and a half hours left to go in 2016

  4. 4.

    Another Holocene Human

    What’s up with the shift if Jewish voter demographics? Inadequate sample size? That shift looks yuuuge and what could it possibly be based on in the last three years?

  5. 5.

    raven

    @magurakurin: I went off on a guy that abused the shit out of a Hertz Rental lady one morning at Midway a couple of years ago. The dude was a stone punk, lawyer I think. Some times it’s the right thing to do.

    eta I was an old man at the time.

  6. 6.

    ThresherK

    Off to Motor Vehicle the place which the right tells me never gets anything done on time, efficienty, or politely. Who am I gonna believe, them or my own lying eyes?

    PS Example one: Instead of regular Thursday hours they’re opening early, 7.45a, for those of us who just can’t ring in the New Year without registering a new (used) car.

  7. 7.

    Amir Khalid

    For those following the Saga of Amir Khalid’s Left Pinky:
    I saw an orthopedist as the University of Malaya Medical Centre today. He said it was a good sign that the swelling in the pinky finger has begun to subside on its own, and prescribed a six-week course of antibiotics to help it along. I am to see him again after an x-ray and a blood test on the 21st, halfway through the antibiotics course, to make sure they are helping. If not, there’s an outside chance the swelling is not bacterial but something else. But the orthopedist thinks this unlikely.

  10. 10.

    Anne Laurie

    @raven: I’m at the point where I’d rather have new acquaintances go, “Gosh, never would’ve guessed you were that old!” rather than “Aren’t you too young to be bitching so much about your ailments?”

    @magurakurin: Back atcha!

    @Another Holocene Human: Pure guess: Younger Orthodox Jewish voters getting ornery about the BDS campaigners… who, to be honest, can be every bit as annoying as the worst of the Bernie Bros when it comes to their purity of essence.

    @Amir Khalid: That’s good to hear. I look forward to your report of a clean follow-up!

    (And now, off to bed; see you in the evening… )

  13. 13.

    PurpleGirl

    Good morning and Happy New Year all.

    @magurakurin: I went to bed at some point during that thread. So it devolved into a fight?

    And I was watching the Twilight Zone marathon. Will keep watching it today. Always thought the stories were good. I like seeing the actors in their younger days.

  14. 14.

    ThresherK

    @Amir Khalid: I am aware of the pinky’s importance; one cannot enjoy high tea properly without extending it, for one thing.

    Are you left-handed by any chance? (I am, so I ask that of anyone who gets something blotpfed on their left arm.)

  16. 16.

    ThresherK

    @PurpleGirl: Well, first, the power went out. Then some fellow’s car wouldn’t start, but fired up on its own after he stepped away. Inevitably, houselights flashed on and off with no apparent cause.

    After that came the rock throwing and general hysteria. Whocoodanode?

  19. 19.

    magurakurin

    @raven: I have a temper, too. I have really tried to get it under control over the past few years. I figure, I quit drinking, so I can quit blowing my stack. But sometimes, like you say, it’s just the thing to do. But over there, it could get you shot. Have to be careful in the States. But overall, losing my shit just makes me feel bad and the world stays the same after I’m done, so I’m really trying to knock it off.

  22. 22.

    magurakurin

    @PurpleGirl:

    So it devolved into a fight?

    Not a bad one. The usual suspects. Not really of note, except when considering the overall topic. I thought it was funny. Probably actually wasn’t.

  23. 23.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud:

    I was certain with your socialist healthcare that you would lose a kidney.

    That’s what I’ve been told, and that the USA has the best healthcare system that money can buy. [USA USA USA]

  24. 24.

    Baud

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Yeah, they say that, but I was trying to buy some replacement skin the other day, and apparently our Big Socialist Government (I.e., Obama) has made it illegal to trade in body parts. Another way the Man keeps the poor down.

    [Think that will snag me a couple of libertarian votes?]

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @ThresherK: Mrs OHB and I got ours done yesterday. Took even longer than usual for the 30th of a month because 2 of the usual 4 people couldn’t make it in due to the flooding. The remaining 2 were even surlier than normal (I think they all have their smiles surgically removed upon hiring) but as always, polite and efficient. If I want somebody to be happy to see me, I’ll get a dog. Wait a minute, I already have a dog.

    So my wife worked from home yesterday because of the flooding. About noon, her work place suddenly realized that by 4 pm the Meramec was going to swallow I-44 and their own parking lot with all the cars in it. RUN AWAY!!!

    On the good side, that means she doesn’t have to make that commute for another day or 4 (rivers have all crested out here, supposed to crest in STL this wkend)(than comes the clean up). On the down side I now get to listen to her tell me “DON’T DO THAT!” all day long.

  26. 26.

    PurpleGirl

    @ThresherK: I think it would be great if the SyFy channel was to show the Twilo Zone episode (It May Look Like a Walnut) of the Dick Van Dyke show at the end of the Twilight Zone marathon.

  28. 28.

    Sherparick

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Given all the investment Bibi has made with his right-wing Republican friends to paint Obama as the worst President ever as far as Israel is concern, this shift is surprisingly small. What I found interesting was the slight shift of white women back to the Democrats, because there are still so many of them (approximately 36% of the total population). I would not be optimistic about “young” white voters staying Democrats. Large majorities of boomers so identified in the 1970s and they have ended up in the Villages watching Bill O’Reilly and voting the straight Republican ticket. The pull of white privilege in a multiracial nation is strong. https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=SIPRNET&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004

  29. 29.

    Amir Khalid

    @ThresherK:
    I am indeed in the Southpaw Club — with you, Nicole Kidman, Barack Obama (among other recent POTUSes), Paul and Ringo from the Beatles, Nils Lofgren, Jimi, Leonardo da Vinci, and too many others to mention..

  30. 30.

    Another Holocene Human

    Speaking of marathons, I caught part of the Dr Who marathon over Christmas while visiting my aunt. Nobody warned me that shit is addictive. I’ve watched an ep or two (old Dr Who) in the past and liked it but wasn’t motivated to watch more.

  31. 31.

    BGinCHI

    Happy birthday early risers.

    Warm and rainy day in Bergen as we slouch towards the New Year.

    Had a great holiday up in the mountains (in Jotunheimen National Park) and now girding loins for fireworks tonight which are supposed to be huge here. I think the Norwegians also dress up in costumes and do some kind of mild trick or treating…. We shall see.

    Am I the only one who is sick as hell of seeing articles on “What a terrible 2015” it was? As if there have been years on the planet of total peace and prosperity.

    Here is the headline I want to see: “2015 Marred By Existence of Republican Party and Right Wing Americans.”

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Jeebus Mawy and Yosef, it’s even worse than I thought:

    Traffic anywhere near the Meramec valley was a fright and will remain so through Thursday. A 24-mile stretch of Interstate 44, from Gray Summit to Interstate 270, was closed. Sandbaggers worked to spare Interstate 55 at Arnold.** The Meramec swamped major feeders, including Missouri Highways 21, 30, 109 and 141, and many more smaller roads.

    ** they failed. I-55 is closed this morn too. The Meramec has always been a ‘volatile’ river, but this is the first time in my memory that it swamped 44 and 55.

  36. 36.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @BGinCHI:

    Here is the headline I want to see: “2015 Marred By Existence of Republican Party and Right Wing Americans.”

    What? You can’t find that in the socialist hellhole you’re living in?

  38. 38.

    dogwood

    @rikyrah:
    It was too late for me to reply to you last night. But your comment about the money in music royalties reminded me a a great story Dolly Parton tells. Sometime in the late ’60’s she was contacted by col. Parker who informed her that Elvis wanted to record “I Will Always Love You”. She was thrilled . When she met with Parker, he informed her that Elvis would require half of the publishing rights. She refused and the rest is history.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    Meanwhile, at the top of the world.

    Temperatures at the North Pole rose above freezing point, 20 degrees Celsius above the mid- winter norm and the latest abnormality in a season of extreme weather events.

    Canadian weather authorities blamed yesterday’s temperature spike on the freak depression which has already brought record Christmas temperatures to North America and lashed Britain with winds and floods.
    [snip]
    …Canada has not kept complete records of North Pole weather but that it was nonetheless “bizarre” to see such high temperatures on the ice pack in the middle of its long night. Source

  40. 40.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @Amir Khalid: Ooh, that’s a whammy. First, welcome to the club–we hafta get some secret handshake. Second, if your penmanship is anytng like mine, hope your pinky travails don’t make it worse.

    Too bad it wasn’t your right ring finger. Darn if I found a use for mine yet; if I ever lost a bet it’d be the one to go.

  42. 42.

    WereBear

    @Amir Khalid: Hurrah for Amir’s pinky! Glad it’s getting attention.

    We have a First Night celebration in town and we will be taking in select events. Don’t know if Mr WereBear will make it to the ball drop from the fire truck. But then the fireworks will wake him anyway :)

  43. 43.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Saw a photo of St Louis with a row of what appear to be periscopes peering up out of the Mississippi.

    They are actually the tops of streetlights.

    Yikes.

  44. 44.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @PurpleGirl: First world problems for us. I swing between awe at the raw power of Mother Nature and something that is a strange mix of bemused and amused at the continuing distinctly American hubris in the face of it. We didn’t learn a damn thing from the ’93 flood. I doubt very much we are going to learn a damn thing this time either. This** is the face of global warming and we are going to pretend there is no bogeyman.

    ** GW predicts a marked increase in major rain events like this one. This one is caused by the strongest El Nino ever recorded (only since the 1950s) and a whole lot of climate scientists are saying there is a direct connection between the strength of this El Nino and the warmest year ever recorded.

  45. 45.

    Baud

    It’s new years in Australia.

    It’s only 9 pm in Kuala Lumpur, so an early happy new year to you, Amir.

  46. 46.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @ThresherK: I have never had a really bad experience at a DMV except for when the State had hiring freezes, leaving the DMV seriously understaffed.

    But this Zootopia trailer set in a DMV is still hilarious.

  50. 50.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    @Another Holocene Human:
    My Detroit area suburb is about 98% white, 50% Jewish, 250% state median income and votes 86% Dem. We also have extremely high voter turnout.
    The nearest non-white family to us is an African-American household on the next block. They always have GOP yard signs every election season, so they’re contrary to trend in several ways.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    I don’t understand how we could be gaining with every group except Jews but still have difficulty winning elections.

  53. 53.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    @Baud:
    Well, the poll above is based on likely voters but I’ll still say turnout is the difference. Look at how much better the GOP does in off-year elections. It’s the same demographics, but more Dems turn out when the Presidency is on the ballot.

  54. 54.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MattF:

    He’s wonderful. I saw him perform live with Diana Krall in Atlanta at least a decade ago. He was terrific then, and he’s only got better.

  56. 56.

    Amir Khalid

    My left pinky thanks the Juicitariat for all the kind wishes. Actually the orthopedist and I did discuss some worst-case scenarios — bone cancer rather than a bacterial infection thereof, the likelihood of the infection engulfing my whole hand, turning it into a bloated pussy mess requiring the big chop, and other such lovely possibilities. But as I said, he doesn’t think any of that is likely.

    @Just One More Canuck:
    So did Rahm Emanuel, for a while.

  60. 60.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    True. This is why school millage taxes are so hard to pass in MI. Retirees have no kids at home, fixed incomes and time to go to the polls so they turn out to vote against any increase. The moms & dads who could benefit from more money for the schools are too busy to vote.

  61. 61.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: I know. Sporadic voters, and a media that pisses on or ignores Democrats every chance they get. It’s a big problem, and Republicans figured out how to game the system and stuck to the plan.

    The St. Louis flooding sounds horrendous. From the NY Times:

    Rivers are not expected to peak until Thursday, at the earliest, and the flood crest will be making its way down the Mississippi well into next week. While the Mississippi was expected to remain a few feet short of its record height at St. Louis, downstream at places like Cape Girardeau and New Madrid, Mo., and at Memphis, it could approach or equal records set in the floods of 2011 and 1993, the Army Corps of Engineers and the National Weather Service reported.

    …. The hardest-hit region is eastern Missouri, particularly here, in the small towns along the Meramec southwest of St. Louis, where the river winds its way toward the Mississippi. The usual declarations from victims that they had never seen anything like it somehow fell short, as the Meramec and its tributaries shattered previous flood records Wednesday. In places, the Meramec rose 27 feet above flood stage — as much as three feet higher than had ever been recorded.

    … The deluge struck at a time of year that usually brings snow, not rain. The region’s worst floods usually hit in spring and summer, but an unusually wet and warm fall had saturated the ground.

    Then, from Saturday through Monday, a powerful line of slow-moving and unseasonably warm storms spawned a string of tornadoes near Dallas and dropped heavy rain across an arc hundreds of miles long.

    A few places in southern and eastern Missouri, including the town of Union, a short drive upstream from here, recorded more than a foot of rain in two days.

    Misery.

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    My left pinky thanks the Juicitariat for all the kind wishes. Actually the orthopedist and I did discuss some worst-case scenarios — bone cancer rather than a bacterial infection thereof, the likelihood of the infection engulfing my whole hand, turning it into a bloated pus-filled mess requiring the big chop, and other such lovely possibilities. But as I said, he doesn’t think any of that is likely.

    @Just One More Canuck:
    So did Rahm Emanuel, for a while.

  64. 64.

    Elizabelle

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    The moms & dads who could benefit from more money for the schools are too busy to vote.

    In all honesty, maybe we need to start shaming some people. Voting needs to be a priority, every single time. It’s their duty as parents, as citizens.

    The elderly and fearful and gullible should not have such an outsized influence in voting results (whereas the wealthy and connected benefit the most overall).

    And I know a lot of Democratic voting elderly; they know what they saw over their lifetimes. It’s pathetic that younger voters get all exercised over sports and pop culture, but don’t turn out to vote in enough elections.

    This economy without jobs for them, with expensive education, did not happen by itself. They need to wise up.

  65. 65.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    I gotta get on a plane. Leaving rainy Alabama to head home. This will be interesting. My wife says the roof leaked and ruined a wall. A nice wall I put up myself. I think there’s carpentry in my near future. Well, at least I have 3 days off to get a start on it.

    Have a happy new year everyone.

    Time to board…

  67. 67.

    Schlemazel

    @Amir Khalid: Well, that is a positive, hope 16 continues on an upswing & the drugs are all you need.

    @raven: I believe you & I are about the same age & I didn’t feel old at 60 but all the shit that has been happening I find 64 feels really old so I guess everyone’s mileage my vary.

    @magurakurin: Glad I went to bed & missed it. I don’t know if it is the written word missing inflection or the lack of face to face but people can sure get excited about nothing online.

    Happy New Year juicers!

  70. 70.

    Baud

    @Schlemazel:

    I don’t know if it is the written word missing inflection or the lack of face to face but people can sure get excited about nothing online.

    Take that back, jerk.

  71. 71.

    Big R

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: I had not realized you were visiting Tuscaloosa, otherwise I would have extended an invitation to get together. I thought you lived here, and so I went, “Oh, I’ve got time.”

    Gather ye rosebuds, etc. I’ll get you next time.

  72. 72.

    Schlemazel

    @Baud:
    I was gonna make a ‘your momma’ joke but that reminded me of a commercial I saw in the other day. You guy ends up getting a ride from an Amish guy in his buggy & asks him how he gets by without the Internet, “We do OK without the Internet. I get pictures of your mom by mail.”

    I thought that was hilarious.

  73. 73.

    Satby

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Not just old people but the IGMFY contingent, which spans all generations. The incessant drumbeat of all taxes being “too high” has completely disconnected people from the thought that taxes pay for things they expect to have living in society. And young people, including my own kids, are positive they’re never going to see a dime of social security because they’ve heard for their whole lives it’s broke. 40+ years of propaganda has shattered the idea that a social contract exists for all of us.

  74. 74.

    SarahT

    Marx Brothers movies all day on TCM. Also, happy, HEALTHY 2016 to all @ B-J, and your nearest & dearest, too !

  75. 75.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Elizabelle: I really don’t blame people who are living on a fixed income for voting against these property tax increases. They are looking at no real increase of income for the rest of their lives while everything around them goes up. There is a fix, tho I do not know how easy it is: Freeze property taxes for those collecting SS.

  78. 78.

    BGinCHI

    @Another Holocene Human: Yep, that’s right. Coined by a poet in the 19th C.

    It’s a dramatic, lovely area of deep valleys and rugged mountains and few people. Lots of little villages and ski areas and cabins of families in Oslo and Bergen (it’s halfway between them).

  79. 79.

    BGinCHI

    @BillinGlendaleCA: The conservatives here are laughably sane.

    Though the current government is cutting education, so come to think of it all conservatives are fucking idiots.

    Selfish Reactionaries would be a fitter moniker.

  81. 81.

    Elizabelle

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’d means test that, in all honesty. The wealthy collect Social Security too.

    With some mechanism for considering real estate values in your area. A $500,000 home in SoCal is far different from half a million spent in the flyover states.

    I think the Democrats have to change the message on taxes. They’re what we pay to maintain a[n allegedly] first world and civil society. Which is developing a lot of cracks, as money is Hoovered up by the wealthy and the commons are gutted.

    Republican lite — no one needs to pay taxes, except that millionaire, behind that tree! — is indefensible.

    People need to see what they get for their taxes. Americans take so much for granted, until it’s gone, and then some of them end up scapegoating a convenient target.

  82. 82.

    BGinCHI

    @Elizabelle: Agree totally.

    And I’d add that they need to change the discourse on taxes from “income taxes are the only taxes” to “taxes are paid by everyone in various forms, and by middle and lower income people at a high rate for their incomes.”

    When someone says poor people don’t pay taxes I can barely constrain myself from beating the shit out of them. Figuratively, of course.

  84. 84.

    Poopyman

    @Amir Khalid: Glad to hear about the pinky, but a six-week course of antibiotics? If it’s by chance a fluoroquinolone or Cipro one of the advertised side effects is tendon rupture. Didn’t get that, but what it did to me was to mess up the cartilage in my knees. Fortunately it was temporary and didn’t really effect them for the first couple of weeks.

    Bottom line, mind the side effects, because they can be nasty.

  85. 85.

    Satby

    @Elizabelle: That’s what I was saying in my reply above. I’m gobsmacked by the disconnect between things people are disgusted by, like the situation in Flint, and the reduction / refusal to pay the taxes needed to maintain basic civil necessities like safe water.

  86. 86.

    Schlemazel

    @Elizabelle:
    THe problem is that the GOP has done a great job of convincing people they get nothing for their taxes. They get elected & insure the average taxpayer gets screwed & this reinforces the idea that taxes are a waste.

    Dems have tried for years to explain that taxes are necessary and failed because people don’t see what they are getting (largely because the GOP screws that up) or that they are paying money that goes to the wealthy instead of the community good.

  87. 87.

    Elizabelle

    @BGinCHI: The “47%” is such cheap ass propaganda, and says a lot about the person spouting it. We all pay taxes in some form.

    Telling a low information voter that the corporations and the wealthy have hijacked the tax system, and are benefitting from it, while gutting public services for what used to be the middle class, should not be that hard.

    I don’t blame you for being overseas. I think about it a lot myself.

  89. 89.

    Schlemazel

    @Felonius Monk:
    I don’t know – in that way it was not a good commercial. We where having pizza in Chicago & the TV was on to one of the sports channels so probably something that appeals to the dudebro segment.

    EDIT: I just googled the line & discovered it is Slim Jims.

  90. 90.

    Felonius Monk

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Let me see… How do I say this in the politest terms possible….

    I woulda gone with just a simple Fuck You, Rick. —-– Less effort. Feels better.

  91. 91.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Elizabelle: Here in MO, it’s a local tax set by voters in a particular school district. There are also funds distributed by state and Feds but that is a separate issue.(one I can rant about for hours). Not sure about the means testing. It sounds good but it brings up a whole different set of politics, one that I am sure Kay is far better versed in than I.

  93. 93.

    msdc

    Interesting chart. I wish I had the statistical/polling knowledge to figure out how whites under 40 can show a huge shift toward the Democrats, whites over 40 show a marginal shift toward the Democrats, and yet whites as a whole move slightly toward the GOP. Those must be some racist 40 year olds!

    I suppose the two smaller moves are just float, but you’d think the large shift among younger voters would be moving the needle more.

  94. 94.

    Satby

    @Schlemazel: And even people who should know better, like my kids who have had to listen to me their whole lives on the subject, have a hard time understanding that because the propaganda that taxes are just wasted money is pervasive. Though it’s obvious even to obtuse Tea-baggers that the wealthy have rigged the system for themselves. Their racism requires that they blame the wrong people for that.

  95. 95.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Elizabelle: There’s a simple solution to the turnout problem – stop requiring that votes only be taken 6 AM – 6 PM on a particular Tuesday. There’s no reason – none – why voting can’t be done over a month before election day. Yeah, it would cost the jurisdiction some money. So does only recording the preferences of those who can easily vote during restricted hours.

    If the cost is a big problem, we can move to a vote-by-mail system. It hasn’t bankrupted Oregon.

    Once voting is less of a burden for people without transportation, without reasonable working hours, without sensible leave policies, etc., then we can work on automatic voter registration, also too. Something like 24% (51 M) Americans aren’t registered (according to a 2012 Pew survey).

    It’s not just people not caring. There are real burdens in the way we do elections now.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  97. 97.

    Elizabelle

    @Schlemazel: Democrats could do a better and simpler job. Stay on message.

    The middle class is disappearing. It’s not Obama’s fault. He tried and mostly succeeded at giving Americans another avenue for healthcare, since jobs are diminishing and changing and no longer a reliable vehicle for obtaining medical care (if they ever were).

    People can sense this, even if they don’t think about it more formally. It’s what’s feeding the interest in Trump and demagogues, and the cynicism about politicians and what they hear on the “news.”

    There’s such a clear difference between the parties and their aims, and yet the cynical won’t even honestly discuss it.

    I think talking about the Supreme Court, over and over again, might be the message that resonates. Virtually no one likes Citizen United.

  99. 99.

    BGinCHI

    @Elizabelle: To make a gross generalization in terms of comparison (obviously anecdotal and observational), I’d say the biggest different I have really noticed is that there is just flat-out less stress, anger, and desperation here.

    Maybe less “excitement” in terms of less violence, sports culture (there is tons of that, but mostly people actually doing sports), but far more patience, quality time, and a kind of cultural leisure that is becoming freakish in the US.

    What conservatives get so badly wrong is that the surest way to insure traditional values (such as family and so on) is a political system of progress, tolerance, and prosperity for the greatest number.

  100. 100.

    Elizabelle

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Totally agree with you.

    Election “Day” needs to be a thing of the past. It needs to be an extended period, and mail-in or in person voting ahead of time — with a paper ballot — is mandatory.

    I worry about vote suppression in 2016. We are all going to have to be out there, making sure people and registered and have the ID needed to vote. The philosophical arguments can wait for another time; we have to get our votes counted.

  101. 101.

    Felonius Monk

    @OzarkHillbilly: I know you were, but that particular issue is one that nobody should be polite about. These idiots are hurting people and they should be held accountable which in my mind includes high walls and steel bars at a minimum.

    ETA: I hope the New Year brings you some relief from the flooding. Stay safe.

  102. 102.

    Thoughtful David

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
    Almost always DMV problems are caused by understaffing caused by underfunding. It’s the old conservative trick of making sure government can’t work and then complaining “See! Government doesn’t work!” Conservatives always see the DMV as a place they can cut, and Democrats don’t usually see it as a fight worth fighting. So in practically every state the DMV experience is miserable.

  103. 103.

    Just One More Canuck

    @msdc: I read the graph differently – the shift of whites over 40 is towards the Republicans, and the shift of whites overall is towards the Democrats

  106. 106.

    Satby

    @Felonius Monk: They’ll never be held accountable. “Emergency Managers” were only appointed to areas of MI with no clout to begin with. They ignored the citizens complaining for months. A very noisy doctor and GM refusing to use the water is what made them notice, not regular people complaining. Because the citizens don’t count in our system any more.

  107. 107.

    Schlemazel

    @Elizabelle:
    The social contract is dead. Too few people think that they can do better by helping everyone do better. Too many people believe they only do better at the expense of everyone else. I don’t see how we can ever change that because the modern world makes it so easy for the masters to move jobs and hide their money; there is no way to level the field and show results.

  109. 109.

    Amir Khalid

    @Thoughtful Today:
    “A Certain Kind of Republican” would be closer to the truth. The blurb (I didn’t bother looking at the story either) describes those staunch Trumpistas as Republicans who register as Democrats. Actual Democrats want Trump to be the nominee only because they fancy Hillary’s chances against him.

  110. 110.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @OzarkHillbilly: Our jurisdiction has property tax relief (not just homes, but annual auto taxes, too) for the elderly, disabled, etc. 6 page .pdf. The income limit is “only” $72,000 for any home property tax relief, but that should cover the vast majority of retirees.

    I assume we’re not alone in having programs like that.

    There are school bonds on the ballots almost every election, and they always pass, but I do worry that it won’t take much for the burden of proof to shift dramatically. Schools are quickly destroyed when they can’t raise bond funding. I do wish the school board, and the board of elections in general, would advertise what’s on the ballot much more in the weeks before the election. There are always stories about people not knowing that it’s election day when the time comes. :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  112. 112.

    PurpleGirl

    @Elizabelle:

    I’d means test that, in all honesty. The wealthy collect Social Security too.

    Do you mean property taxes? Not to start something but I’m against means testing Social Security. That turns it into a welfare program and makes it easier to cut. To keep it solvent, I’d prefer to apply payroll taxes to the whole salary not just a portion of it because for most people the payroll does fall on the whole salary.

  115. 115.

    NonyNony

    @msdc:

    Interesting chart. I wish I had the statistical/polling knowledge to figure out how whites under 40 can show a huge shift toward the Democrats, whites over 40 show a marginal shift toward the Democrats, and yet whites as a whole move slightly toward the GOP.

    Whites over 40 have a small shift towards Republicans and Whites in general have a small shift towards Democrats (it’s a confusing chart, but if the grey bubble is on the left that’s a shift towards the Dems and a grey bubble on the right is a shift towards Republicans). In fact, whites over 40 and Jews are the only two groups in their sampling that show any shift at all towards Republicans – all of the other demographics are moving away from them.

    As to why the huge shift in whites under 40 is only showing up as a small shift in whites overall – white Baby Boomers are a huge demographic bubble. And so a small shift in their numbers rightward is going to counterbalance a much larger shift in the later generations leftward. (Especially when likely voter models come into play and the younger demographic sample gets downweighted due to the historic realities of younger voters not bothering to vote as regularly as older voters tend to.)

  116. 116.

    japa21

    @OzarkHillbilly: Quick question. I am supposed to drive from Chicago to Ft. Leonard Wood tomorrow. Usually take 255 to 270 and catch 44 there. I think that should be okay. How about west of 270? Is 44 open the rest of the way?

  117. 117.

    Satby

    @Amir Khalid: I read the story, and it’s all about “self-identified Republicans”, some of whom are still registered as Democrats from years ago so presumably the Reagan Dems of yore. They may never have changed their registration, but no one has counted them as Democratic voters for eons.

  118. 118.

    Elizabelle

    @PurpleGirl: Hi there. Speaking of property taxes, and that collecting Social Security (ie. being 65+) might be too broad a screen.

    Agree totally about applying payroll taxes to the complete salary.

    I’d also impose a ginormous tax on executive compensation over a reasonable amount. We are not better served by our new corporate overlords making 300:1 the average worker’s income. That needs to stop, and could, but for the wealthy having purchased Congress.

  119. 119.

    Schlemazel

    @bemused:
    I’m the guy that proposed a kickstarter to make an automated guillotine that could handle 4-6 people a minute. That might offer a clue as to which solution I would prefer.

  121. 121.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Wish it were so here. Had a school levy increase in one of he wealthier towns in STL area fail in the last election because…. words. Anyway, after the election the school board had to make cuts in order to balance the budget. Those were “retaliatory” cuts.

    I sh!t you not. People actually think there is a magic money sh!tting unicorn in every school district

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    @BGinCHI: Great comment (you at #99).

    I’d say the biggest different I have really noticed is that there is just flat-out less stress, anger, and desperation here [in Western Europe].

    You are right about the desperation hiding underneath too much of contemporary America.

    It’s misdirected, on purpose, too.

  123. 123.

    magurakurin

    @Amir Khalid: The most interesting thing of that article was that district map of Trump support. I’d love to see one of those for the Democratic race.

  124. 124.

    Amir Khalid

    @Satby:
    Just as I thought: some NYT copy editor has written a blurb that makes it unnecessary to read the story, like a trailer that gives away the whole movie.

  125. 125.

    Linnaeus

    @Satby:

    I’m cynical enough to agree with you – the people who need to be held accountable won’t be. Snyder’s task force doesn’t have any real power to do anything and the legislature sure as hell won’t investigate.

  126. 126.

    WereBear

    @Elizabelle: Democrats could do a better and simpler job. Stay on message.

    The middle class is disappearing.

    And yet when the Democrats field a candidate who is making that his single issue, he is torn down by other Democrats who should know better.

    Is it so hard to say Bernie Sanders is right about economic inequality? It’s the truth.

    Is telling the truth just so damn hard?

  129. 129.

    Satby

    @WereBear: I think everyone agrees he’s right on economic issues. Where we don’t necessarily agree is that economic issues are the whole ball of wax. Maslow’s hierarchy doesn’t account for racism.

    Edited because my Kindle keeps correcting my already correct spelling.

  130. 130.

    Schlemazel

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    There is an asshole in Iowa who sells his services to dingbats fighting school levies, he has had good success here in Minnesota and the campaigns are all outrage based. Magic money indeed. One of his accolytes even got elected to the state house. he proposed a bill requiring school districts spend 75% of all their income on things required for classroom instruction. He gave up when he discovered he couldn’t find one spending less than 80%.

    BTW – the guy from Iowa is a religious-based nut job. I am convinced he sees the destruction of public education as a huge win for christian madrasas . Whether thats because they are a source of income or just tru-believers I don’t know.

  131. 131.

    Amir Khalid

    @WereBear:
    The knock on Bernie is not that he cares so much about economic inequality and the disappearing middle class (and the ever more marginalised working class) but that he treats pretty much everything else as secondary. A candidate for President has to have a plan for the whole job, not just one part of it. One who runs on a single issue deserves the fate of Larry Lessig.

  132. 132.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Elizabelle: As recently as 2006, Nashville, TN had a means tested reduction of property taxes. I think, though I’m not completely sure, that it was for Social Security recipients; my mother was well into her SS years when the loss of Dad’s SS check qualified her. We went through the calculation every year to reassure her that working part time at her church was worth losing that tax reduction.

    Those conversations frequently veered off into “now imagine if you had to do this kind of thing to make sure you didn’t lose your Medicaid”, which I know she used later to object to assholes ranting about the lazy poor. I was so proud.

  133. 133.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @japa21: No, 44 is closed from 270 to Grey Summit and is supposed to stay that way thru the wkend. Right now they are recommending taking 70 west and then cutting south at some point. I would suggest grabbing US 54 at Kingdom City west to Camdenton (@ Lake of the Ozarks) then Hwy 5 south to Hwy 7 south to 44 and east from there to St Roberts and the Fort. A guy I worked with at the Fort made that commute every day (Camdenton to the Fort) and it’s good road.

    Here is the MODOT Traveler Map for up to date info.

  134. 134.

    Elizabelle

    @Satby:
    @WereBear:

    I am thrilled with Bernie Sanders being in the race, and expect to see Elizabeth Warren out there too.

    They’re right about economic inequality; it’s a message that needs to get out there. The young already hear it. They have to turn out and vote for the Democratic nominee, period.

    BG in Chicago (but temporarily in Norway) spoke of the European vibe. Europe had aristocrats, so they knew to regulate and temper capitalism.

    We in the US pay the price for allowing the myth-based an oversized voice in American politics. The US was not founded to be a Christian nation (separation of Church and State, peeps). It does take a village. Not everyone who tries hard will do well. Science is hard, and important.

    We’ve been brought to this juncture by selfishness and fantasy.

  135. 135.

    Ruckus

    @Amir Khalid:
    Yes dominate hand injuries are not a lot of fun. Have had both hands in casts, fortunately not at the same time (a friend has had this happen) and while neither is fun the loss of the dominate hand for a couple of months makes for fun times. My friend with both hands/wrists in casts said you get to find out how much your girlfriend really likes you. In a real big hurry.

    And here’s hoping that you heal nicely and in a hurry.

  136. 136.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Thoughtful David:

    So in practically every state the DMV experience is miserable.

    NC must be an outlier, then. The only reason I dread going to the DMV right now is the parking situation. The last storefront they were in had plenty of parking with a good traffic pattern; the current one is terrible.

  137. 137.

    srv

    Here’s your Morning Edition for you:

    Not only is Donald Trump a “jerk” in the eyes of Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush, but he’s also “a creature of Barack Obama.”

    “I would argue that Donald Trump is, in fact, a creature of Barack Obama,” Bush said during the Boston-based interview, set to air Thursday.

    “But for Barack Obama, Donald Trump’s effect would not be nearly as strong as it is. We’re living in a divided country right now, and we need political leaders rather than continuing to divide as both President Obama and Donald Trump, to unite us,” he said.

    The hater is in your mirror: The Myth of Silicon Valley Libertarianism

    There’s a reason why the Silicon Valley libertarian revolution hasn’t materialized: they’re actually an entirely new type of Democrat.
    …
    when Paul opened his campaign speech with a line that usually garnered him cheap applause among libertarians, it backfired in San Francisco.
    …
    “Who’s a part of the leave-me-alone-coalition?” Paul cried, expecting a big response. Only three people in the audience clapped. It was so awkward that Paul had to make a joke to shake off conspicuous bomb. “Not that many, huh?

  138. 138.

    NonyNony

    @Amir Khalid:

    FTA:

    His very best voters are self-identified Republicans who nonetheless are registered as Democrats. It’s a coalition that’s concentrated in the South, Appalachia and the industrial North

    What Cohn is dancing around here are the “Reagan Democrats” (actually more like Nixon Democrats, but whatever) that Democrats have supposedly been failing to kowtow to since the Civil Rights Act was passed. The salt-of-the-earth working class folks who Democrats have failed to attract with their promises of “socialized” medicine and minimum wage increases for reasons that DC pundits pretend to be baffled about.

    One thing that Trump has done is make it much, much harder for the Village press to pretend that the idea of the long-term “Reagan Democrat” was about much of anything other than a racist backlash against Dems for the CRA.

  140. 140.

    japa21

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks. I took a better look at the map and changed my mind. However, am thinking of taking 270 around the north of St. Louis, getting off at 100 and taking that to Gray’s Summit. Does that sound doable?

  142. 142.

    MomSense

    We had freezing rain last night and it is treacherous this morning. The fluffy snow is now covered with a thick layer of ice which made the dog’s pee walk interesting. May need to wear ice skates for the next one.

  143. 143.

    Elizabelle

    Gotta scoot. Catch you guys later. Will try to whinge less. (It’s fear and despair of Republicans …)

    @MomSense: Hello there and be safe.

    Didn’t you have a second, houndlike dog for while? Does Korra still have a companion?

  144. 144.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @japa21:

    getting off at 100 and taking that to Gray’s Summit.

    Yes, it is doable, and might actually work better than what I proposed because it is a wkend. Right now it is the only secure route around the flooding which, as someone at the DMV yesterday who had just driven it pointed out, means EVERYONE is using it to get around it. Normally that is a 30-45 min drive in mostly suburbia, but she said it took her better than 3 hours. It being NY day with no commuters and no school buses it will most certainly be better but I have absolutely no feel for how much better. If you can hit it in the AM, I think you should be OK. PM is anyone’s guess.

  146. 146.

    japa21

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks. Of course, I am then coming back Sunday and who knows what it will be like then.

    Appreciate your help. Figure if it is about 30-45 minutes it actually would add about 25 minutes, whereas the other route would add at least 1-2 hours, I think.

  148. 148.

    Ken

    @japa21: The river crests are supposed to be today and tomorrow, but it may take a few days for the water to subside, then a few more days to get the roads open – or longer if there’s been damage.

  149. 149.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @japa21: Yes, my proposal would add that much, but nothing east of there is secure. 100 will definitely take longer than usual, just unknowable how much longer. I grew up on 100 (Manchester Rd, east of 270) and absolutely loathe driving on it these days because of all the hateful people that live along it now. Going that way, I would recommend smoking a nice fat doobie first. ;-)

  151. 151.

    Randy P

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    After the incident was over, Mitchell can be heard blaming his fellow officers for releasing the dog.

    “God damn, guys, you gotta f**king tell me!” he yelled. But Mitchell didn’t give the other officers any time to tell him before letting loose the dog.

    Why aren’t officers trained to take a few seconds to figure out what the hell is going on, who to shoot, etc? Why do they rush in with guns/dogs blazing before they even know who to blaze at?

    That’s the thing that struck me first about the Tamir Rice shooting. Drive up, shoot. No delay between the two.

  152. 152.

    catclub

    @NonyNony: Yes, 60%! Yes 60% of whites are GOP voters. I am white but not a GOP voter. I am still appalled. Also appalled that white women are not substantially better than white men.

    Oh well.

  153. 153.

    catclub

    @srv:

    and we need political leaders rather than continuing to divide as both President Obama and Donald Trump, to unite us,” he said

    This from any GOP candidate drives me crazy. Show me where Obama has said something divisive. Not something they think they heard, but something he has said.

  154. 154.

    Amir Khalid

    It’s just turned midnight in Kuala Lumpur. I’m sitting at home, and I can hear the fireworks going off in the park by the Petronas Towers. Selamat Tahun Baru to one and all.

  156. 156.

    J R in WV

    I went to the DMV the other day (12/28) re renew my driver’s license. It was jammed, the large waiting room was 80% full, which is a couple of hundred people. They give you a tag with a number, and call numbers /window IDs over the pa and on a screen.

    Most people weren’t there for new driver licenses, I was in and out in less than 30 minutes. By dividing people up by their needed task and having 18 windows with different functions, they reduce the wait to a practical minimum. It used to be horrible, everyone stood in the same line, got to the window and learned that they were missing something, or were in the wrong line.

    Before that every license plate in the state expired on June 30, and you could only renew it at the DMV HQ in Charleston, like a 12 hour drive from some places pre interstate highway. There was a tiny business in every town that lived on taking people’s paperwork to DMV and bringing back the title/registration/plate. DRivers Licenses were at the state police at the time, I’m pretty sure.

    So things do get better…

    I’m about to buy a new used PU truck, 2005 F-150, seems just like what I need, a work truck, a little beat up, less than KBB value. We are meeting the seller at a garage to get it looked at before making the exchange. I’m
    quite tense about it, which is unusual.

    Happy New Year! not going out to friend’s annual NYE party. just not feeling that well.

  158. 158.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Randy P:

    That’s the thing that struck me first about the Tamir Rice shooting. Drive up, shoot. No delay between the two.

    That’s what makes it murder.

  159. 159.

    MomSense

    @Elizabelle:

    She is without companion as she is not “into sharing” at all. Some dogs are single pet dogs and she is one of them although she adores her best friend from puppy class who is able to be here all the time without any trouble.

  162. 162.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Amir Khalid:

    And Selamat Tahun Baru right backatcha! Happy New Year to all Juicers. Stay safe, be well, and coax out every bit of good that 2016 has to offer.

  163. 163.

    Tom

    @ThresherK: I LOVE our local DMV. They let you do a lot of stuff online and even if you have to come in, the folks there are knowledgable, friendly and polite.

  164. 164.

    catclub

    @Tom: There was a bit in Obamacare about voter registration via the exchanges. It was ( I think) that every encounter with the government _should_ include the opportunity to register to vote. Also at the DMV. I was intrigued. I have not seen much more about it.

  166. 166.

    David Koch

    @NonyNony: The media is still tryin to white wash the racism. They say they’re anti-establishment or they fed up with Washington and want an outsider. They still refuse to acknowledge that they are racists who are flocking to Trump’s naked racism.

  168. 168.

    Lurking Canadian

    @Amir Khalid: happy new year, Amir.

    And to everybody else too, when it gets to be time. I’ve been chasing my eight-year-old boy around Ottaea all week, so I’m hoping I’ll get to be asleep loooong before midnight.

  169. 169.

    catclub

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    There are real burdens in the way we do elections now.

    And they are not by accident. When I realized that Mississippi has its governor’s election on odd numbered years – which in principle costs more for a separate election from ANY national election – It is obvious that making voting easy (or cost effective) is not the goal.

  170. 170.

    David Koch

    @WereBear: McGovern and Dukakis were right about issues but they weren’t electable. If campaigns were about contemporaneous issues, then democrats would never lose. But they aren’t are they – just ask Gore and Kerry.

    You’re asking us to ignore that Sanders is 75 years old, a socialist, a pacifist, has a paper trail of kooky essays, has never run a difficult race, has a terrible campaign team, and the long history of the republicans and the corporate media swiftboating such candidates to shreds. If you can’t pass the eligibility threshold, what good are ideas.

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