Got a question for you guys. My NHT speakers are dying, and I simply don’t use my stereo enough anymore to listen to music to warrant purchasing an expensive new system. I do however, like to watch a good bit of movies and television, so I am thinking a surround bar setup might be my best option. Any suggestions?
I was looking at a Yamaha soundbar that got good reviews, but thought I would ask you all.
Diana
no opinion on the sound bar but if everyone votes for isolated speakers you can get a surge protector power manager whose outlets only work if the Master Outlet (the one for the power for the screen) is plugged in. It prevents phantom power usage… hit the switch on the surge protector, and you turn off the four outlets for four speakers. Cost $25, works with up to six speakers.
Also I just got into Philips Hue lighting. anybody here else got one?
Holden Pattern
I have pretty much been relying on The Wirecutter/The Sweethome for product reviews — they do a combination of testing and metareview that’s really been valuable so far. Also, the marginal value of me combing through reviews for most products is not even close to the cost in time and information overload.
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-soundbar/
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-soundbar/
Punchy
Yamaha audio equip is good quality stuff. Unless you can afford some Bang & Olufsen wonderfulness, Yamaha is a good choice IME.
raven
I use a Vizio and it works great.
GregT
grep avsforum for the current picks. Last year I went with Pioneer SP-SB23B based on reviews. Not sure if it’s available any more. But it has a great sound.
Kyle
Sound bars are great. I bought a Vizio and then watched one of the recent Star Trek movies. My floor and windows shook. It’s great.
WaterGirl
New Year’s Resolution: To set up the sound bar system I bought 2.5 years ago. I dust it regularly, if that counts for anything.
Ruckus
@raven:
There are good Vizio and not so good.
We had one that was bought by a friend and it sucked. Took it back to Costco and purchased a much higher rated Vizio. The sound is pretty good, especially for the price. It doesn’t compare to my Cerwin Vega studio monitors but it’s not bad at all.
John
My research tells me Yamaha is good, and the higher end Vizio, and Bose. But the Bose is pretty expensive for what it is IMHO, along the line of B&O. Spend at least a competitive $100 and they all seem to be pretty good.
WaterGirl
@WaterGirl: Who am I kidding? I do dust it whenever I dust, which is not regularly.
schrodinger's cat
New Year Kitteh wishes every one a happy purry new year.
jsled
Hard to go wrong with The Wirecutter’s recommendations. Note that they recommend the Sonos Soundbar for the best soundbar, but at $700 it’s really hard for me to justify that.
Ultraviolet Thunder
I’m an audio nerd first and foremost.
What’s wrong with the NHTs? Those should be good quality. All the ones I’ve owned have been worth fixing.
WaterGirl
@Ultraviolet Thunder: What the heck is a NHT?
jeffreyw
I had a mid range Zvox that was nice, but my new TV is too big for it so it got moved into the bedroom where it languishes. I bought an LG soundbar for the new one that is not worth a damn. Looking real hard at the Sonos bar but it’s scary expensive.
PeterGriffin
Why not just fix the NHT’s? How are they dying? There isn’t much to any speaker and NHT is a well regarded brand. Any crossovers or replacement speakers from Parts Express are cheap and excellent quality
I suppose sound bars are ok for movies and TV but they don’t perform well with music. Be a shame to ash can the NHTs when they might just need a pair of $25 crossovers
Ultraviolet Thunder
@WaterGirl:
A pretty good brand of stereo speakers. Originally stood for Now Hear This, but abbreviated into a TLA for brevity. Guy named Ken Kantor started the company, and he knows his stuff.
bystander
Happy with the sound bar I got from Amazon, the Retail Branch of Satan, Inc. They frequently have good deals. Can’t remember the brand we got, but it has a subwoofer that could probably bug the neighbor’s downstairs if I weren’t such a considerate kind of guy.
Zinsky
I love my Sony SA-CT260 sound bar and related WCT260 subwoofer. You can play your iPod or IPad through it via Bluetooth and it sounds great too!
jeffreyw
Nice thing about the newer soundbars is that they can act as an external bluetooth speaker, the pricier ones tap into your LAN and can stream tunes over the internet, or from your own library if you have one you are proud of.
debbie
From back when they made bookshelf systems, my at 22-year-old Yamaha is still going strong.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@efgoldman:
Unless they’re damaged by accident or abuse, the only thing that usually fails is the foam surround ring of the woofer. It dries up and rots. I have a stack of replacement foams on my desk here. You can fix them but it takes steady hands, practice and sharp tools.
Virginia (fka Abo Gato)
@Diana: My husband got a bunch of the hue bulbs and put them in our living room and near the kitchen. He’s the lighting guy around here so I really don’t know much about the workings, but he is making some really awesome lighting on our artwork. Controlled by the app, you can change the color of each individual light. We do have a hanging blown art glass lamp and with a hue bulb in that, he can make the glass do amazing things.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
We’ve got a Yamaha YAS-101 with our 42″ Panasonic plasma set. It made a huge difference in the sound quality.
I think we got it on sale for just a little over $100 from B&H, but it was a few years ago.
I need to get another one for our 50″ LG plasma set, but it’s sitting on a stand that is only ~32″ wide so we’d need something smaller. It seems like roughly comparable bars to the YAS-101 are over $200 now, but maybe it’s just a matter of waiting for a good sale. Maybe use one of the price tracking tools before you’re ready to buy something.
HTH a little. Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@efgoldman:
Example photo of a rotted speaker foam from one of my magazine articles.
Steeplejack
I have embarked on a lower-end quest, just to upgrade to any speakers from the big-ass TV’s inadequate built-in ones. In the process I did get sidetracked into a little exuberant window-shopping.
Cole, at the high end ($500) I would recommend the Sonos Play:5 speaker. It connects to your wi-fi network and can stream music from all your network-connected sources (computer, tablet, cell phone, etc.), but, unlike the other Sonos models, it also has a 3.5mm jack to which you could connect your TV (with a RCA-to-3.5mm cable). I listened to it at Best Buy yesterday. The sound is phenomenal, and it takes up much less space than a sound bar. Also, if you get the Sonos bug (and/or inherit from a rich aunt), you can add other speakers and do up the whole house.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B014LFINIA
At the low(er) end, I saw some promising Vizio sound bars around $200. I don’t know how important true “surround sound” is to you, vs. just great sound. Vizio has a highly rated 5.1 bar (SB-3851-CO, $218) with satellite speakers (which might be a hassle). The 2.1 SB3821-C6 (not surround sound, no satellite speakers) is $139. Both have wireless subwoofers.
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
FYWP! Fixed to correct naked link that I forgot about. D’oh!
I have embarked on a lower-end quest, just to upgrade to any speakers from the big-ass TV’s inadequate built-in ones. In the process I did get sidetracked into a little exuberant window-shopping.
Cole, at the high end ($500) I would recommend the Sonos Play:5 speaker. It connects to your wi-fi network and can stream music from all your network-connected sources (computer, tablet, cell phone, etc.), but, unlike the other Sonos models, it also has a 3.5mm jack to which you could connect your TV (with a RCA-to-3.5mm cable). I listened to it at Best Buy yesterday. The sound is phenomenal, and it takes up much less space than a sound bar. Also, if you get the Sonos bug (and/or inherit from a rich aunt), you can add other speakers and do up the whole house.
At the low(er) end, I saw some promising Vizio sound bars around $200. I don’t know how important true “surround sound” is to you, vs. just great sound. Vizio has a highly rated 5.1 bar (SB-3851-CO, $218) with satellite speakers (which might be a hassle). The 2.1 SB3821-C6 (not surround sound, no satellite speakers) is $139. Both have wireless subwoofers.
trollhattan
Soundbars are great for simplicity and spousal acceptance. Don’t have one but a high-end Yamaha I listened to did a good job of providing a spatial experience from a one-dimensional array (magic!). IMHO a sub is still needed. Cheap bars don’t seem to provide depth, just stereo.
Am using a 5.1 setup of Monitor Audio speakers through an Onkyo receiver, which I really like but the spouse, not so much–too much clutter.
Oh well.
WaterGirl
@Ultraviolet Thunder: Thank you!
Steeplejack
@jeffreyw:
I’d look at the Sonos:5 instead of the Playbar. YMMV.
jeffreyw
@efgoldman: I have a pair of Pioneer CS-99s in some nice walnut cabinets that I ordered through the Pacific Exchange while en route back to the World in 1970. Still work great, I have them hooked to a Harman Kardon amp in the back garage.
Suzanne
We have a Vizio soundbar in our den, which is the secondary TV space, used primarily for video games and YouTube, but not for extended viewing. We got it at Costco a couple of years ago, so I’m sure they don’t have it now. It was approx $200, and we both think it sounds good for the money. We don’t go for volume, tho.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@jeffreyw:
I’m listening to ’60s vintage Altec Boleros with custom horn tweeters. Nothing wrong with these 50 year old drivers.
Diana
@Virginia (fka Abo Gato): thank you! I’ll try glass, it’s an idea…
raven
@jeffreyw: And a Sansui reel to reel! I packed my speaks before I sent my hold baggage on the way!
jeffreyw
@Steeplejack: It is a tad cheaper than the playbar, does the TV remote control the volume?
Corner Stone
@jeffreyw:
I was not going to say anything because the Sonos is quite pricey, but the Playbar added to a SUB and two Play 3’s absolutely changes your viewing experience. I can now hear all the small bass routines that a bunch of my watchable shows were adding but my old TV setup could not pick up. Even my moms is agog at how the new setup makes everything pop.
Thinking about adding two small Sonos Play 1s in the high corners.
Probably too pricey for most but I decided the Playbar made sense and I am happy I did.
Steeplejack
This thread seems custom made for my audio rant. As I said above, I recently decided to get off my ass and upgrade the sound on my TV. I did some fantasy window-shopping on line but also rooted around and dug up a pair of speakers and a subwoofer that had been connected to my computer three or four years ago. I thought that if I could connect them to the TV with a converter cord (RCA to 3.5mm) that would be a good, cheap solution.
It turned out that what I had was the subwoofer and two speakers of a Cyber Acoustics 5.1 surround-sound setup. I never deployed the rear speakers because it was too much clutter in my previous apartment. I wouldn’t want to deploy them here, either, which is fine, because I believe they got lost in the move.
More to the point, what also seems to have gotten lost in the move is the special 5.1-to-3.5mm cord that I need to connect these speakers to anything. I couldn’t find a replacement at Micro Center yesterday but eventually did find a 5.1 cord and a 5.1-to-RCA converter on line that together cost about $30. I haven’t pulled the trigger yet because I’m not 100% sure that would work, and at that cost I’m almost in the zone of just getting a low-end but good set of new speakers. This (partial) Cyber Acoustic set (CA-5150) is so old it doesn’t even show up on their website any more.
Anyway, end of story. I feel purged.
ETA: Any recommendations on sub-$100 computer/TV speakers welcomed.
jeffreyw
@raven: I went with the TEAC!
Steeplejack
@jeffreyw:
I haven’t done it personally, but the Sonos site says yes. You can configure it to respond to a non-Sonos remote.
The other possible issue is that the Playbar uses an optical connector, while the Play:5 has a 3.5mm jack.
jeffreyw
@Corner Stone: Sounds like a fucking awesome setup!
Ultraviolet Thunder
@efgoldman:
Some speakers use/used butyl rubber in place of foam. Old old speakers like my Altecs used treated fabric surrounds. The foam has performance advantages (lighter, more flexible) and is cheaper, but typically lasts only a decade. But after 10 years they’re ready for you to buy new speakers anyway.
ETA: at times of slack employment I’ve made decent income just from refurbishing speakers with rotted foams.
I’ll never do a pair of Bose 901s again (9 tiny drivers each).
A.J.
I tried a Costco soundbar a few months ago and decided it was just not giving me what I could get from spending a bit more on real speakers.
But then, I like my bass with movies and love to hear music richly. Went with stereo speakers, a sub, and a center for dialogue. Super happy with my setup.
whiskeyjuvenile
nthing sonos playbar
Steeplejack
@efgoldman:
What ’phones? I’m guessing Grado.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@efgoldman:
Headphones now make up a major part of music listening. Few younger people listen to music in rooms like we used to. Hipsters, maybe.
I’m designing a tube based headphone amp to run off of USB. The power budget is a measly 5W (5V X 1A), which is a severe limitation. I don’t use headphones much myself but I like this challenge. Getting 100V to run the tube out of a 5V source is proving interesting.
jeffreyw
@Steeplejack: The reason I ask is that the TV has an optical out connection but the TV remote will not control the volume on the sound bar unless the sound bar can see the remote signal. I suppose the TOSLINK does not carry volume info?
ETA: I do see a headphone jack on the back of the set, looks like 3.5mm, has component and RCA inputs but just the TOSLINK and the headphone outputs.
Corner Stone
@jeffreyw: It does its thing on the awesome action movies etc, but really, just day to day normal TV viewing is so much better it is crazy.
I get all the Terminator/Die Hard/Heat bad ass stuff, which is really fun, but all the non-premium cable channels have all these hidden music routines I have not been hearing for years. And yeah, it’s just filler stuff but it really does enhance my every day viewing BS. So, completely worth it for me.
DCF
In an earlier life, I procured and sold mid-High End (as opposed to ‘Hind End’) sound systems. The challenge I faced in researching the products (1984 – 1996) was, first and foremost, to identify the ‘performance plateau’ where additional monies purchased only incremental sonic improvements. The store(s) primarily offered American and U.K. products, with a core line (or two) of Japanese companies (i.e., Denon).
The goal, in essence, of sound reproduction is to measure its quality/characteristics with the ‘absolute sound’ – the sound of actual acoustic instruments playing in a real space.
If video sound sources are the primary use to which the sound bar system will be put, we’re in a different category of standards here…three options, at significantly different price points, where the budget alternative(s) will provide 80 to 90 percent of its pricier sibling. I exclude here the $1500 – $1800 options unless the buyer has more listening-intensive (i.e., music) priorities.
1) The Sonos PLAYBAR. A component that suffers from a lack of inputs, and is neither Bluetooth or AirPlay compatible. The sound quality and ease of use, however, are best-in-class ($699);
2) Vizio SB4051-C0 (with wireless subwoofer and satellite speakers). An outstanding bargain in the price/performance category. Multiple inputs and options, excellent sound quality and connectivity ($275);
3) Vizio SB3821-C6. A $140 sound bar with wireless subwoofer that leads the pack in this price category.
Hope this helps you in your search….
Corner Stone
@Ultraviolet Thunder: When my son goes to bed I plug in the Sony MDRX10/Red into an iPad to watch and/or listen.
jeffreyw
And it looks like there is an output labeled HDMI/ARC but I have no idea what that’s for or how to use it.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Corner Stone: I have old ones: Grado SR-60 and SR-80s, and Beyer DT-990 studio ‘phones. But I recently picked up a spendy pair of Logitech sound canceling headphones. I use them on airplanes and to make cellphone calls in noisy environments. They’re not sold as high end gear but they sound outstanding. Sometimes a pair of earcans is the only solution.
Keith P
A bit outside the box but you should give the Amazon Echo a look. It’s basically always -on Siri with a surprisingly good speaker setup.
Note it’s a single speaker unit but the quality is just real good for its size.
Steeplejack
@jeffreyw:
I’m hypothesizing here, but I think that on a lot of TVs when you select “external speakers” the TV says, “Screw it, not my problem any more.”
. . . Did a quick Google search, and it appears to vary (wildly) by TV.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@srv:
I’m that guy, but I’m woefully behind on modern gear. Doc Bottlehead makes good, simple kits. I can vouch for the Bottlehead preamp circuit as being technically sound. No pun intended. If that works for you, go for it. Don’t go crazy on expensive capacitors, tubes or volume controls. They make little difference.
Steeplejack
@efgoldman:
I lived on Okinawa from 1967-69 when my father was in the Air Force. He put together an awesome audio system. I copied a lot of LPs to tape (three albums per tape) on his Teac. And when I went to college I took a Panasonic tape/AM/FM combo system that even had an aux jack for the Dual turntable I added later.
That was a brief period when the electronic stuff you could get overseas was awesome and often not even available in the States.
phein55
Consumer Reports is touting a $200 model in their latest subscription solicitation. Check it out at your local library.
Genghis
Get the NHT’s reconed. There will be someone in your area who recones speakers for local musicians, they can usually make the NHT’s sound brand new for not much dough.
Alternatively, get some other used speakers from the 70’s, Advent Model One’s for example.
Best…H
Corner Stone
@Ultraviolet Thunder: I had a pair of old studio class Sony’s but when the right speaker failed I decided to try something else.
Those were unbelievable for the relatively expensive price point (at the time). But they were completely unsuitable for travel. Loved them, though.
Genghis
For example: http://www.heavysoundco.com/
Victor does great work, might be worth a phone call and shipping to get him to do the job. He may also have some reconditioned speakers for sale.
Lots of these guys are craftsmen working out of their garages or basements. It’s a lost art… fixing stuff.
Best…H
Corner Stone
Speaking of which, Backdraft (Kurt Russell 1991) on my Sonos setup is a completely different experience than the last 25 years of watching.
That backdraft explosion freakin burns now.
Lee
I’ve got a Sony HTXT1. We’ve been very happy with the sound. Has blue tooth as well as 3 HDMI inputs.
It is big enough to give a bit more of the lower range
John Cole
@Corner Stone: email me some pics of your setup, pls.
Howard Beale IV
@WaterGirl: NTH stands for “Now Hear This”.
Bobby D
@Ultraviolet Thunder:
5W tube is NOT a small power budget for audio. I’ve got, and have built, several 5w tube class A guitar amplfiiers that will deafen you and piss off the neighbors. Class A tube power is a whole different ball of wax than solid state.
I seriously doubt there is anything wrong with your current speakers unless the critters have been peeing on them or the WV humidity has rotted the surrounds or cones themselves. I’ve got various speakes and studio monitors from 5-60 years old. Altec, Bose, HK, JBL, and random low end stuff. Also guitar cabinet speakers dating to the late 60s. Hifi tube amps from the 70s, etc.
If you actually do need towers and have the space, don’t want to spend a lot, and aren’t an audiophile freak, just go to a big box and get the $200 pair of Pioneer towers, SP-FS52s. I’ve got a couple pairs of these in a vacation house and the basement practice room. Triple 5.25″ drivers and a dome tweeter in each. Balanced sound and more than sufficient for 99% of the population.
Howard Beale IV
I built some homemade speakers back in the late 1970’s that now are my rear speakers in my home theater system. I replaced the original ElectroVoice SP-8C’s with Bag End 10″ Woofers, but I kept the ElectroVoice T-35’s as you can still get replacement diaphragms for ’em. My front speakers are Klipsch KLF-30s and my center channel is a KSC-6, with the whole rig being driven by a Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040.
I was driving the speakers with a Dared DV-6C (a hybrid amp using 3 Mullard 12AX7s as premaps with NXP Class D amps,) but since my Meinere’s flared up, it has put a serious crimp in my musical enjoyment, so I took it out and am looking to sell it.
And if the fullness in my right ear doesn’t go away, I may just shitcan the whole rig entirely.
Happy New Year.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Bobby D:
Not 5W output, 5W total power consumption. The tube heater alone consumes nearly 2W (6.3V @ 0.300A).
I’ve built many tube amps and they’re drastically inefficient. I want this to be able to drive headphones off of no more than 5W of input power from a USB socket. With bass and treble controls as well.
Howard Beale IV
@Ultraviolet Thunder: “What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier.”
–Paul Klipsch
trollhattan
@Bobby D:
In my experience the biggest killer of speakers is clipping from a cheap solid state amp. In this could be Steve, but fried voice coils or crossovers might could be a thing also, too.
Howard Beale IV
@Bobby D: Class A will consume the same amount of power regardless of the signals you put into it-always have, always will. That’s why the other amplification typologies came into existence-and that’s why Class D is the predominant method used in virtually all consumer electronics today-its cheap, efficient, and less likely to color the sound.
Paul
I have a Visio sound bar that has wireless subwoofer/rear speakers. I highly recommend it. http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-s5451w-c2/
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Howard Beale IV:
Eh?
Class A amplifiers are linear amplifiers – the output power depends on the input power in a linear way.
Of course, Class A amplifiers have low efficiency because the transistors/tubes are never turned off (to reduce their distortion of the signal), but they do have variable output power and thus variable power consumption. They don’t run at full power all the time.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Howard Beale IV
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I stand corrected.
Seaan
@efgoldman: Don’t worry about the surrounds on your ADS 710, they use buytl rubber which rarely have aging problems. For my ears, those are still great speakers and you would have to spend dearly to get a clear improvement.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Howard Beale IV:
No, you’re both right but you don’t know it because you’re failing to differentiate terms.
Simplified, a Class A amplifier set up to consume 25V at 4A (100 Watts of power consumption) will always consume 100W whether it is putting out power to the speaker or not. With no input music signal and no output to the speaker, 100W is dissipated in the amplifier as heat. At full music output (theoretically 25W), the amplifier is consuming 100W of power, dissipating 75W in the amp as heat and pushing 25W to the speaker, where it is turned into sound (and mostly heat).
David VanHooser
I’m a Magneplanar guy. Bought the smallest, cheapest model 15 years ago & have been very happy. Wouldn’t work with a cat around, though. What happened to the NHTs?