Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

“They not like us!” (that’s for sure!)

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Come on, man.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Republicans don’t trust women.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

In after Baud. Damn.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

You are here: Home / The Right Course of Action

The Right Course of Action

by | 211 Comments

This post is in: 

I love this:

Federal authorities are planning to cut off the power of the wildlife refuge in Oregon that has been taken over by militia, exposing the armed occupiers to sub-zero temperatures in an effort to flush them out.

Armed militants will begin their third day at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a remote federal outpost in eastern Oregon, on Tuesday, and have vowed to remain for months in protest over the treatment of two local cattle ranchers.

A federal government official told the Guardian that authorities were planning on Monday to cut the power at the refuge.

“It’s in the middle of nowhere,” said the official, who is based in Washington, DC, and has knowledge of the planned response to the militia. “And it’s flat-ass cold up there.”

The official, who asked not to be named, said they were not privy to the FBI’s plan of action. However, they said the US Park Service, which is leading the crisis management reaction to the occupation in liaison with the FBI, planned to cut the power to the building where the militiamen are spending their nights.

Any such move would mark a significant escalation in the crisis. The local sheriff, FBI and other law enforcement officials have so far held back from confronting the militia, who are heavily armed and have lookouts on a watchtower.

The militia have said they do not want a violent confrontation but made clear they are armed and prepared for the arrival of law enforcement officials. However, it appears that federal authorities were planning to use the power cut, and an attempt to starve the militia of supplies, in order to force them out.

“After they shut off the power, they’ll kill the phone service,” the government official added. “Then they’ll block all the roads so that all those guys have a long, lonely winter to think about what they’ve done.”

I love the mocking paternalistic tone of that last quote- “You kids just sit there for a while and think about what you’ve done.”

They’re already sending out smoke flares for cheetos and socks, so I think a couple weeks of no internet and heat and they’ll either slink out or go all Donner party.

Reader Interactions

211Comments

  4. 4.

    Mustang Bobby

    They’re already sending out smoke flares for cheetos and socks, so I think a couple weeks of no internet and heat and they’ll either slink out or go all Donner party.

    Or they’ll torch the place, adding arson to the list of charges.

  6. 6.

    different-church-lady

    ‘Couse, we know how this turns out:

    1) Fantasy Rambos start burning the furniture
    2) Cabin catches fire
    3) Obama and the government take the blame for their deaths

  7. 7.

    catclub

    planned to cut the power to the building where the militiamen are spending their nights.

    Any such move would mark a significant escalation in the crisis.

    This is the way the Poles escalated the crisis in 1939 by continuing to be Poles in Poland.

  8. 8.

    gf120581

    Or they may try to shoot some protected birds for food and end up with poaching charges against them. Oh the irony.

  9. 9.

    Paul in KY

    I’d do it intermittently. No power for 13 hours..turn it back on for 14 mins…off for 3.7 hours..on for 2 minutes…and so on.

  12. 12.

    Emily68

    All these nut-cases are heavily armed. I’m betting eventually they start shooting each other to get the last granola bar.

  13. 13.

    amk

    how cutting off power would ‘mark a significant escalation in the crisis’? Who is this asshat?

  15. 15.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Emily68: Reminds me of the South Washington Granola Wars, early 90s. There we were in the cafeteria drinking our agent orange juice.. wow, powerful flashbacks.

  17. 17.

    different-church-lady

    @Emily68: Ever read up on the Mutiny on the Bounty guys? Within about 10 years of sailing off to paradise most of them had killed each other.

  18. 18.

    Davebo

    @amk: At this point doing anything at all is a significant escalation.

    I for one am happy assuming this report is true. As of 10:30PM last night the power was still on.

  19. 19.

    khead

    So the FBI has taken over and plans to cut the power?

    Has anyone checked to see what the Gruber family is up to nowadays?

  20. 20.

    Capt. Seaweed

    Power to the People! Just not for these assclowns.

    Freeze ’em out. Winter is a long way from over in the high desert…

  21. 21.

    amk

    @Davebo: ok, how about singing some lullabies then? oh, that’s right, they’ll be offended that the gobinment is not giving them country songs.

  23. 23.

    The Moar You Know

    Fence it off and walk away. Make sure to take out the access road so the media can’t get up there and keep their story in the news.

    Laugh as idiots try to walk out across fifty miles of sub-zero desert.

    Problem solved.

  24. 24.

    dmsilev

    I think the Feds should go all psy-ops on them. “We’ll send you some snacks, but Michelle Obama will choose which snacks to send.”.

  25. 25.

    sigaba

    How much you wanna bet these guys brought a weeks worth of food and about 75,000 rounds of ammo?

  26. 26.

    RSA

    A federal government official told the Guardian that authorities were planning on Monday to cut the power at the refuge.

    No authorized personnel are in the buildings at present; anyone concerned about the waste of taxpayer money should approve of this action.

  27. 27.

    rikyrah

    The look on the judge’s face!

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA AHHA

    ……………………

    WATCH: Kentucky man shouts ‘punk a** n****r’ at black judge — and gets slapped with 60 days in jail
    David Edwards DAVID EDWARDS
    05 JAN 2016 AT 11:38 ET

    A Kentucky man is spending 60 days in jail after he used a racial epithet in front of a black judge on Monday.

    In courtroom video obtained by WDRB, Jefferson Circuit Court Judge Olu Stevens is seen revoking Adam Satterly’s bond on drug charges.

    “Punk ass n*gger!” Satterly shouts as he turns to walk out of court.

    Moments later, Stevens asks deputies to bring Satterly back into the courtroom.

    “Is there something that you wish to say to me?” the judge asks.

    Satterly argues that he had directed the slur at his brother, not the judge.

    “No, no, no, I didn’t mean it like that,” the defendant insists.

    “Oh, you didn’t mean it like that?” Stevens replies skeptically. “You don’t speak those words in here. And that word particularly, you don’t use that word.”

    “I’m going to give you 60 days for having used that word. I’m going to hold you in contempt right now for having used it in this courtroom. It’s disrespectful; don’t ever do it again.”

  31. 31.

    Betty Cracker

    @sigaba: The photo at the linked article shows a pitiful store of food. Don’t know about the ammo, but I suspect you’re right.

  32. 32.

    Satby

    Wonder if that’s why they’re starting to make noises about leaving “if the community wants them to”. With sorrowful comments about how they can’t make the locals “fight for their freedom”.

  35. 35.

    Hungry Joe

    It’s starting to remind me of an old Woody Allen story about Central American revolutionaries hold up in the jungle. In the end they pledged eternal fealty to the CIA “in exchange for no fewer than fifty barbecued chickens.”

  39. 39.

    H.K. Anders

    Any such move would mark a significant escalation in the crisis.

    No, no, no. Cutting the power is not escalation. Going in armed and trying to re-take the building by force is escalation. Using passive tactics to encourage them to leave voluntarily is de-escalation.

  41. 41.

    bystander

    Saw somewhere else a screen cap of a supportive email to the Patriots at the Bird Sanctuary. The writer bemoaned the fact that he couldn’t join the Brethren because his monthly government disability check was late. The damned Obama. He can’t even get free money distributed on time.

  42. 42.

    Culture of Truth

    “Any such move would mark a significant escalation in the crisis.”

    Nothing says escalation like not giving terrorists free electricity.

  43. 43.

    Culture of Truth

    I initially proposed giving them dial up internet at 1993 speeds. Hilarity should ensue.

  46. 46.

    Davebo

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t think they took off to Oregon planning on occupying this place.

    Once they saw the locals were telling them to pound sand they probably spent sixty seconds formalizing a silly plan and hit the local Safeway for Ramen and Bud Light on the way out of town. By now I’d imagine they’ve already burned through whatever sparse firewood they could find around there and will soon be looking at the few trees on the compound wondering how hard it is to burn uncured wood.

  47. 47.

    AnderJ

    Instead of burning the park down, they might also chop down all the trees to make a fire. That will look nice on their rap sheets. Poor birds, though.

  48. 48.

    Germy

    Audubon Society of Portland issues statement

    “The occupation of Malheur by armed, out-of-state militia groups puts one of America’s most important wildlife refuges at risk. It violates the most basic principles of the Public Trust Doctrine and holds hostage public lands and public resources to serve the very narrow political agenda of the occupiers. The occupiers have used the flimsiest of pretexts to justify their actions – the conviction of two local ranchers in a case involving arson and poaching on public lands. Notably, neither the local community or the individuals convicted have requested or endorsed the occupation or the assistance of militia groups.” – excerpt from a statement by Bob Sallinger, Conservation Director at Portland Audubon

  49. 49.

    Woodrowfan

    once their phones lose power and they get cut off from social media they’ll start thinking about going home. no attention? no point.

  53. 53.

    NonyNony

    @Germy: I’ll take “things that the Conservation Director at Portland Audobon never thought he’d be writing when he interviewed for the job” for $500 Alex.

  54. 54.

    Mike J

    @Woodrowfan:

    once their phones lose power and they get cut off from social media they’ll start thinking about going home. no attention? no point.

    They’ve already made noises about, “well if these people don’t want to be free, maybe we’ll just go home'” but they haven’t figured out how to put this in action without looking like they lost.

  57. 57.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @raven: Hey Mr. Macho – did you know that some Indian kinda longhair dudes took over a federal building back in the day? AIM or some kinda acronym.

  60. 60.

    Germy

    @NonyNony: From the Conservation Director’s statement: “Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was established in 1908 by President Theodore Roosevelt to protect the vast populations of waterbirds that were being decimated by wanton killing by the plume trade.”

    How would Teddy Roosevelt handle these characters, if he were president today?

    But it’s a fight they’re looking for, so let them sit quietly and eat snacks.

  62. 62.

    Fair Economist

    I wish they’d started earlier, but it’s definitely the right course. Trespassing and vague incitements to treason aren’t capital crimes. Walking while black shouldn’t be either, of course, but that’s not a reason to blow these guys away.

  63. 63.

    Heliopause

    A course of action is just that, a course. This is just the first obvious step, there is still the real possibility that events could get out of hand and this could end badly, and I find the jubilant comments above that they’ll surrender quickly in exchange for Cheetos and Diet Pepsi to be very premature.

  65. 65.

    Germy

    @MattF:

    I think the karaoke machine is a nice touch.

    Playlist:

    “And Your Bird Can Sing”

    “Rockin’ Robin”

    “Bye Bye Blackbird”

    “Fly Like An Eagle”

  67. 67.

    PaulW

    thing is, I do want these gun-nuts to evict themselves from the park on their own terms and without violence, but I also want the federal gov’t to round these jokers up when they can and charge them all for seditious conspiracy under the law. No more coddling these SOBs.

  70. 70.

    Benw

    You know you’re a badass militia when the crisis response is being lead by the US Park Service. “Come out or we’ll cut the power, and can you make sure the racoons aren’t getting into the trash bins over by campsite 18? Thanks!”

  71. 71.

    jl

    I noted that the quotes I heard in the media last night from these lethally dangerous nut jobs focused on the crazy. Some Bundy kid nattering away about how it was unconstitutional for the federal government to hold any property at all except for a few things explicitly mentioned in Constitution: forts, armories, blah blah blah.

    Total nonsense that most people, including if they were alive, Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Madison, would immediately understand was total nonsense.

    Or…. maybe the corruption of the Constitution started when those traitor founders went ahead and built federal government hospitals for the maritime sailors on federal government property (that they had no intention of ‘disposing’ asap).

    In the spirit of the Yeehawdist cause, I guess we could dig up their bodies and crucify them after death, though admittedly it has been awhile. Apparently that is part of the Saudi Arabian death penalty ceremony for their next bunch of victims on their list.

  72. 72.

    NorthLeft12

    I think an airdrop of supplies is in order. I would suggest spicy beef jerky, Twinkies, Frank’s Hot Sauce, and some Jolly Ranchers.

    I think this is an appropriate diet for these sad sacks.

  77. 77.

    sigaba

    How long before Alex Jones accuses the government of “planting” these guys in the park in order to make the sovereign citizen movement look ridiculous? You can see it now: “They took over that federal building too easily! They must have had inside help!”

  80. 80.

    NorthLeft12

    @Germy: Yeah, you don’t want to mess with a few million pissed off birders. They would put these 3% half wits to shame.

  82. 82.

    dmsilev

    @Benw: If they still won’t come out after a week or so, the Park Service’s backup plan is to unleash the birder fanatics. _Nobody_ fucks with the Audubon Society.

  83. 83.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @jl: I always go to rural yokels with rigorous secondary education in the school of hard knocks when I want expert constitutional advice. These guys intuitively understand the constitution like the blueprints to a trailer septic system or a Chilton’s manual for a ’82 ford explorer. God bless American and God bless the Constitution!

  84. 84.

    WJS

    @NorthLeft12: Bird watchers are opposed to these things called “cats.”

    To protect native wildlife from free-roaming cats, people have sought a variety of solutions. Collars with bells reduce the capture of prey by 34-48 percent. Battery powered electronic devices that warn the prey when lights go on or alarms go off when the cat pounces toward the prey can also reduce cat predation. And a recent test in Australia of the “pounce protector, a lightweight neoprene bib worn on a collar” showed that bird captures were reduced by 80 percent.

    http://srel.uga.edu/outreach/ecoviews/ecoview070826.htm

  85. 85.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Bobby Thomson: I must admit, however, that in this context “hold up” has a comical undertone. Can they hold up as they hold out against the tyranny of the US Park service? Especially if insufficient quantities of snacks are sent?

  86. 86.

    joes527

    I think this is great, and I’m all for a measured response, but three days into the standoff is time to float a trial balloon about cutting the power???

    I would have expected power/water/telephone to be cut right away. Do they have cell coverage? that one might take a bit more time.

  87. 87.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @The Moar You Know: I think you finally found a use for Trump’s wall, and I bet Mexico would gladly pay the construction cost (unlike the real Trump wall).

    Personally I’m rooting for Donner party because the fewer of these yahoos that survive, the better for the rest of us.

  88. 88.

    NorthLeft12

    @PaulW: They have guns and plenty of ammo. I’m sure at least one of these patriots would attempt to open the cans with a well placed shot or two.

  89. 89.

    Kay

    @jl:

    The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

  90. 90.

    Benw

    @PaulW: lol. I hate when the supermarket is out of Planter’s Dry Roasted and I have to buy those shitty Militia Nuts. They’re too soft and bitter.

  92. 92.

    Sherparick

    @amk: The U.S. taxpayer is paying for the electrical power so I don’t understand how this is an “escalation” to say we will not subsidize this foolishness.

  93. 93.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @joes527:

    I think this is great, and I’m all for a measured response, but three days into the standoff is time to float a trial balloon about cutting the power???

    Look, this is everyone’s first insurrection. Baby steps.

  95. 95.

    Mike R

    @Kay: Come on Kay, that’s just the false flag constitution. The real constitution is in their heads and can be changed to suit any idiotic whim that springs into their little pea brains.

  97. 97.

    tom

    > and have vowed to remain for months in protest

    Months? I thought they were planning on staying there for years?

  104. 104.

    jl

    @Kay:

    Kay, Kay, Kay, what are we going to do with you? Can you not read?

    ” The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State. ”

    ‘Dispose of’ means they had only the power to sell it all off (to the right kind of people, who as per the elder Bundy, who maybe shouldn’t really be required to pay or it) asap, except for forts, powder magazines and customs houses at ports. Puuulleeasse.

    Reading it any other way is putting a maritime court fringe on the Holy Constitution!

  106. 106.

    Mnemosyne

    You probably don’t want to cut the landline, because you want to give them a way to contact the negotiator so they can surrender. But cutting off the power and internet? Hell, yeah. I have a feeling these idiots didn’t realize that the “high desert” of Oregon is a lot colder and snowier than the high desert of Nevada.

  107. 107.

    Gretchen

    Looks like they’re planning on cooking. I see bags of potatoes and flour. No electricity may impede that.

  109. 109.

    Benw

    @dmsilev: true dat.

    “Come out with your hands up!”

    “Fuck off, park ranger scum!”

    “I’ve got a few thousand middle-aged Audubon members here and I’m gonna tell them that the blue-crested water loon which hasn’t been spotted here since ’73 is inside there!”

    “You wouldn’t!”

    “I’ll also tell them you might scuff the display cases!”

    “We surrender!”

  114. 114.

    Lee

    A couple of weeks at most.

    If they make it 10 days without power, I’ll be somewhat impressed.

  117. 117.

    Mnemosyne

    @MattF:

    You know that landlines don’t require electricity unless the phone itself requires it, right? That’s how I was able to call my brother after the Northridge earthquake knocked my power out.

  118. 118.

    ? Martin

    One other thing the feds could do is clarify their position against mandatory minimum sentences and move that pressure over to Congress. That’s at least part of the grievance here, and it’s a valid gripe (even if the reaction is completely batshit).

  121. 121.

    DCrefugee

    All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
    While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too

    Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl
    Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl

  122. 122.

    jl

    I saw an exhibit at Yosemite about the first group of people who policed the national park: Buffalo Soldiers, fresh from combat duty in the Philippines.

    So, these guys like the Old Ways so much, I say we at least do that much for them. Since, as per AIM occupation of Alcatraz, this could take up to two years, we have time to adjust and cater to them. It would be an indulgence, but we want to show good will.

    We have time to get some troops from Afghanistan, probably special forces, give them some R&R and then training for national park ranger or BLM agent work, and send them in to deal with it.

  125. 125.

    jl

    @? Martin: That apparently isn’t their issue. Their demands I heard in the media last night and this morning were to go back to Olde Tymey real Constitution rules for federal lands, which means selling 99 percent them off to the right kind of people of this group’s liking.

  126. 126.

    Kyle

    Let’s “escalate” it further. Pull up some big ass speakers and start playing Linkin Park or some other music that will drive them nuts, and then blast bright lights at them all night. It won’t take long.

  127. 127.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    @amk:

    weren’t the mandatory minimums pushed by the rw’ers in the 90’s to solve the ‘crime waves’ incarcerate large numbers of niCLANGS?

    Fixed.

  128. 128.

    Mike J

    In a shocking turn of events, Obama declares the ranchers are right. The federal government can’t hold property. All government held land to be turned over to the tribes who originally occupied it, who may then charge market rates for grazing.

  129. 129.

    Iowa Old Lady

    If they’re using well water, I believe a cut in power will end that. Friends of mine with a well needed a pump to get that water into their house.

  130. 130.

    Mnemosyne

    @MattF:

    Yes, landlines can be cut. My point is that it might be a bad idea to cut the landline along with everything else since it might make it hard for the negotiator to stay in touch once everyone’s cell phones run out of juice.

  131. 131.

    jl

    @Mike J: That would take care of the correct reading of ‘power to dispose of’. All righty then.

    Edit: and actually I agree with the general idea, though there are tricky treaty and Native American self governance issues, but I think generally, something to be said for doing that with some federal land.

  133. 133.

    Kay

    @Lee:

    If they make it 10 days without power, I’ll be somewhat impressed.

    I won’t. Everyone else in the country is satisfied with this public trust “ownership” abstract idea except these people. They’re not happy unless it’s being bought and sold. Not that any of them could even buy it.

    What part of “doesn’t belong to you, specifically” don’t they understand?

  134. 134.

    ET

    Kill the power, kill the phone service, kill the water, and – this requires some cooperation – STOP INTERVIEWING THEM ON YOUR CABLE STATION…… Having everyone ignoring them as much as possible is a better strategy because these losers crave attention. Sure we have to take them seriously but we don’t have to legitimize their “demand.”

  135. 135.

    catclub

    @jl: yes. that next bit:

    make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States

    is like the first phrase of the second amendment, not germane, at all.

  136. 136.

    Roger Moore

    @MattF:
    Land-line phones are powered through the phone line. That’s why you can plug them in to just the phone jack and they’ll still work, though fancy features like answering machines and cordless handsets do require wall power. This is one of their big advantages over IP phones for people who want a house phone; as long as the phone company has backup power, the phone will continue to work even if the power is off.

  137. 137.

    jl

    @catclub: that means all needful Rules and Regulations for selling it off asap to the right kind of people of this group’s liking, silly. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to trick you with fancy egghead word games.

    Obviously this blog is a nest of Masonic Illuminati commie Bilderburgers, or whatever they are called.

  138. 138.

    Roger Moore

    @? Martin:

    That’s at least part of the grievance here

    They’re upset that the government owns land and imposes onerous requirements like lease payments and grazing restrictions for people who use it. The jail sentences are just a BS excuse to complain.

  139. 139.

    Mike J

    @Roger Moore: Which is why if you get phone service through your cable company, the cable modem they’ll rent you has battery backup. They couldn’t move into the market until they had a halfway plausible story to tell about 911 access.

  141. 141.

    Shell

    Why do I have a feeling these guys have zero survival skills. Maybe they can use their many bullets to spark a campfire.

  142. 142.

    Mike J

    @jl:

    Obviously this blog is a nest of Masonic Illuminati commie Bilderburgers, or whatever they are called.

    Reminder that next month’s meeting is a pot luck with a raffle see who controls the Fed for the next year. I’m bringing a pie.

  144. 144.

    Peale

    @Mnemosyne: We can give them a white handkercheif and a stick to tie it on that they can wave when it comes time to negotiate. There aren’t hostages here to consider. There’s no rush.

  146. 146.

    Shell

    Since they insist they don’t want anything from the government, they should be glad that they’re losing their power. Surprised they didn’t insist on it themselves.

  147. 147.

    Paul in KY

    @Kyle: I’d say Flaming Lips. As I know, without the freaky light show, they’ll be pleading for it to stop after an hour.

  148. 148.

    dogwood

    @? Martin:
    Your point is well-taken. Mandatory minimums do not serve justice. However it was the Feds that took on this case. Id be interested to know which JD took on this case, and the feasibility of a subsequent JD to shut it down.

  150. 150.

    coin operated

    @? Martin:

    That’s at least part of the grievance here, and it’s a valid gripe (even if the reaction is completely batshit).

    I beleive they’re pissed that the Hammonds were sentenced at all. Look at all the chaff released around the conviction.

    That said…If they bothered to read the trial synopsis, they’d know why the Hammonds went for a plea. That prosecutor could have laid a real smackdown on them…I’ve seen less evidence used to secure murder convictions.

    Edited for some clarity…

  153. 153.

    Lord Baldrick

    I have sent them a ups package consisting of condoms, vaseline, and my 400 GB collection of Disco favourites. I predict a fabulous month for the boys in the bund.

  154. 154.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Satby: they’re not actually. It turns out that was Ryan Bundy who tweeted that. A short time later Ammon Bundy tweeted that they are staying until their demands are met.

  155. 155.

    different-church-lady

    @MattF: I thought the way a telephone worked is you paid a company $90 a month and then poked at the screen futilely until it did something vaguely resembling the thing you wanted it to do (which, for many people, is throwing birds at pigs and taking photos of lunch).

  156. 156.

    different-church-lady

    @ET:

    STOP INTERVIEWING THEM ON YOUR CABLE STATION

    This happens all by itself after week two.

  157. 157.

    PurpleGirl

    @PaulW: The Feds should be out by the roadside to the major road and arrest them as they try to get on the highway.

  159. 159.

    Kay (not the front-pager)

    @schrodinger’s cat: They didn’t bring much but they do have a plan for resupply: supporters will mail them snacks and government employees (postal carriers) will deliver them. Ta da! Problem solved!

  160. 160.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WJS: I also thought a Donner family themed buffet restaurant would be a money maker. BYOB: bring your own beef. Smith party of 12 your table for six is now ready. That sort of thing.

  161. 161.

    Lee

    @Kay:

    And you have how much experience in near/sub zero weather?

    They’ll be able to stay inside to get away from the wind, but the cold will still be there and it would be very difficult to have a fire inside without damaging the building. Part of the request for supplies was cold weather gear.

  162. 162.

    mokeyeb

    @The Moar You Know:

    alternative plan:

    10 bottles of n-butyl mercaptan (distilled essence of skunk)
    helicopter

    evac will be complete in 30 min, no injuries
    (center uninhabitable for two weeks)

  163. 163.

    rikyrah

    How the Leader of the Oregon Armed Protest Benefited From a Federal Loan Program

    Ammon Bundy decries federal “tyranny,” but he sought aid from the government to help his company.
    Mon Jan. 4, 2016 5:42 PM EST

    As one of the leaders of a band of armed, anti-government activists who have taken over a Fish and Wildlife Service building in Oregon, Ammon Bundy has denounced the “tyranny” of the federal government. And he has brought a new round of attention to the anti-government militia movement that in 2014 rallied behind his father, Cliven Bundy, when the elder Bundy and armed supporters confronted federal agents in Nevada. But not long ago, Ammon Bundy sought out help from the government he now decries and received a federal small-business loan guarantee.

    Ammon Bundy runs a Phoenix-based company called Valet Fleet Services LLC, which specializes in repairing and maintaining fleets of semitrucks throughout Arizona. On April 15, 2010—Tax Day, as it happens—Bundy’s business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program. The available public record does not indicate what the loan was used for or whether it was repaid. The SBA website notes that this loan guarantee was issued under a program “to aid small businesses which are unable to obtain financing in the private credit marketplace.” The government estimated that this subsidy could cost taxpayers $22,419. Bundy did not respond to an email request for comment about the SBA loan.

  165. 165.

    Kay

    @Lee:

    I’m not impressed with the protest. I think the move to turn public lands over to the states is about privatizing a public asset. It is always, always about the money.

    I also expect such strict constructionists and constitutional scholars to understand why Congress can’t act on behalf of individual defendants without implicating separation of powers issues. They want a do-over after they pled? Is that it? Maybe a special law that undoes a judicial determination? The special snowflakes of the conservative movement don’t impress me. If they get really cold they can trek all the way out to their cars in the parking lot and go home, right? That sometimes happens to me in public parks.

  166. 166.

    pat

    Not sure if they will or will not cut the power, but an inconvenient side effect of not having power would probably be frozen pipes, maybe causing quite a bit of damage…..

    Just a thought.

  167. 167.

    Heliopause

    @Lee:

    And you have how much experience in near/sub zero weather?

    I find it odd the near certainty in these comments that these are just a bunch of bros who are in way over their heads. Maybe they are. But we really don’t know much about most of them and their life experiences. As far as supplies go, we know that reporters haven’t seen much, but they’ve only seen what they’ve been allowed to.

    My guess is that if the internet had been in widespread use in 1993 the Koresh cult would have been widely mocked as hapless losers, right up until the smoldering end.

  169. 169.

    al

    Something I have yet to see reported is if the Hammonds were in compliance with the county burn ordinance when they set those fires.

  170. 170.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Living in the west, and in a state that is heavily dominated by ranching interests in rural areas, I can empathize a lot with what the locals in Oregon are dealing with. We have a few of these isolated, small, family ranchers here in NM who get into all kinds of disputes with the NSF and the BLM all the time, never amounts to much. They’re constantly battling the Mexican Grey Wolf Recovery in Program, which is annoying as all hell. Recently a small city here got into it with the NSF about grazing/water rights on behalf of a few cow-poke. http://www.abqjournal.com/396231/news/otero-county-ranchers-confront-feds-over-water.html

    Reading up on the background of the Hammond family is really interesting. They’ve been pesky little fanatical locals for over a decade. Lots of little pissing contests with the Feds and local law enforcement over whether or not they should be able to jam their lard-assed cattle all over every single piece of public land. They set fire to land they have no rights to because it was interfering with their ability to let their cows debride the entire Refuge and National Forest.

    Not only that, but they’ve been setting fires for years to piss off the Feds, the worst of which was when they waltzed in and poached deer, butchered them and then waltzed back out sticking their middle fingers up with a nice little fire that cost the taxpayers something like $650 thousand dollars. Not to mention how much these loonies cost us in all the “farming” kickbacks and reduced leasing fees they get.

    I have to say, none of our NM ranchers were stupid enough to set fire to the forest here to prove a point. They still have a bit of sanity and compassion for the people they would impact. Not so with the Hammonds, apparently. So the Feds and local law enforcement have been pretty patient with them, in my opinion, again their location being a rural area where everyone knows them and so I bet they tried pretty hard to avoid these charges and their subsequent big Federal prison sentence. But they brought it on themselves, and in some ways they were appeased so many times that they got too big for their britches. That’s why they’re so shocked something will finally stick to their sorry asses. My guess is that they’ll never do the full five years, especially with sentence reform being a big issue right now. I’m not even sure they should have gotten the full five years in the first place, a shorter sentence might have been just as effective. They’re felons now, which I think could interfere with their daily lives just enough they’ll think twice about risking some poor 20 year-old college Wildlife Science Major GS 5 BLM Seasonal Hire Forest Fighter’s life ever again. Mother fuckers.

    But the boobs occupying the Refuge Center? I hope they get Goddamned life in prison. To cross state lines and use someone else’s misery to start some kind of non-sensical and fact-free fight over land rights by aligning themselves with full-fledged domestic terrorists and religious bigots? To be espousing a completely traitorous political philosophy that essentially threatens violence against anyone who disagrees? Jesus change the scenario and date in history and make them Communists or Anarchists and they’d be dead right now.

    Even more irritating? Seeing pictures of how they’ve broken into the storage sheds, are eating the food left behind in the breakroom by day to day employees, and driving around in government trucks and ATV’s. Having had kids who did that kind of work over the years, those images just pissed me the fuck off.

    I hope they get fucking life in prison.

  171. 171.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @Paul in KY: But only to certain circuits variable. I want to see the entire Monsters are Due on Maple Street self-infliction here.

  172. 172.

    Ella in New Mexico

    What puts one into moderation? The word “fuck”? Or is it “boobs”? Just checking for future reference. FYWP

  174. 174.

    Kay

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    If they burn the building down they should be charged what it costs to replace it. I once waited half a day to put a canoe in a “scenic river”. You can’t imagine the trials I have endured. Why should those other people be allowed to use it at all? Because they paid for the permit 3 months ahead of time? Tyranny!

  175. 175.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Heliopause: Agreed. I think it’s wrong to underestimate these guys. All my information leads me to believe they’re fully capable of roughing it for a long time, should they choose to. They’re no nubes when it comes to outdoor survival skills.

    I really do think that if they don’t get enough attention, they’re gonna up the ante. I really do see them destroying Federal property or worse in hopes the Feds will move in and they can get their Ruby Ridge/Waco scenario.

    I say don’t give it to them, not a single, tiny drop. Close the gates, surround their egress, and wait them out.

  176. 176.

    PurpleGirl

    @dmsilev: I remember a Star Trek convention where I was standing outside a small meeting room telling the attendees to leave the hallway because in that meeting room there a Hadassah meeting going on and you don’t want get the Hadassh ladies mad at us do you? It kept the sound level down for a while. They were waiting for the Leonard Nimoy who was rumored to be coming to the convention that afternoon.

  178. 178.

    jl

    @Ella in New Mexico: Maybe so. But if they do know what they are doing, where is the evidence of competent preparation? I see none at all. Either they have no clue what they are doing out there in the cold, or they suddenly decided to pull this stunt on short notice after they got frustrated and testy (in a toddler sort of way) after they didn’t get the results that they wanted at the lawful and peaceful protests. Probably the latter, since, if the news stories I saw were correct, they did not even have a list of demands when asked, after they first occupied the place.

    Either is not a good sign of people who know what they are doing.

    There are two dimensions of ‘seriousness’ and ‘knowing what they are doing’ here. Do they know what they are doing in terms of living for a long time in a cold place (or actually, one night in a cold place)? I hope they do, otherwise they might get themselves hurt (Edit: or dead).

    Can they harm themselves or others with their guns? But all sorts of things qualify them to accomplish that, and many of those have nothing to do with ‘knowing what they are doing’. Stupidity and poor impulse control being two examples.

  180. 180.

    beasley

    @Davebo: I’m one of the people living in the northwest. Although it’s warmed up, still isn’t balmy. Cutting off the heat and closing the roads sounds good to me. I doubt mail delivery will be standard procedure…I’m with the person who believes any snacks should go straight to the PO break room.

  185. 185.

    mclaren

    As I’ve said before, these idiots will eventually give up for some blankets and a pizza. National guard? Gimme a break. All they needs is some cops and a pepperoni.

  186. 186.

    beasley

    @Ella in New Mexico: Ppeople who are fully capable of roughing it bring enough supplies to begin with. Forecast for the Baker City area says night temperatures will range from 16 degrees to 24 degrees for the next ten days. Cut the power, block the roads, and wait them out. Addenda. I’m from WA state. There as a national park service employee killed in Mount Rainier National Park a couple years ago. The sympathy I have for these jerks is nil.

  187. 187.

    Death Panel Truck

    “And it’s flat-ass cold up there.”

    Goddamn right it is. I lived two counties east, in Owyhee County, Idaho, for five years. Not a place you want to be without heat in January.

  189. 189.

    Death Panel Truck

    @Kyle: I’d play “Philosophy of the World” by the Shaggs. They’d be begging for mercy before the first song is over.

  190. 190.

    Soylent Green

    The funniest part is their pledge to stay for years, as this takeover of the site was never planned. They wrapped up their march up in Burns, disappointed that the Sheriff of Nottingham did not immediately grant them full access to all of the king’s hunting grounds and that their patriotic act did not draw more global attention.

    Before they hit the road, they surely stopped at the Safeway in town to stock up on Slim Jims, as there are no services for the next about 300 miles on their drive back to Nevada.Then Ammon the Moroni had a brainstorm as they passed the sign for the refuge headquarters.

    A year ago while driving back home from a visit to Steens Mountain, on the road that passes through the refuge area, I took my car up to 130 mph because I wanted to see what it could do. This is easy to get away with in remote and desolate places where there is nothing there at all but sagebrush and a straight stretch of empty highway on which an hour can go by before you see another car.

  192. 192.

    Heliopause

    @jl:

    But if they do know what they are doing, where is the evidence of competent preparation?

    They successfully occupied a federal property and have the complete attention of international media.

  193. 193.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @al: DOJ on the resentencing of the Hammonds:

    EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.

    A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012. The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.

    The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.

    The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.

    […]

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  194. 194.

    Mnemosyne

    @Heliopause:

    A lady in the Midwest who threw an online temper tantrum because another customer had a heart attack on New Year’s Eve has gotten international attention, too. Does that mean she knew what she was doing when she posted her nasty Facebook review?

    These guys are from Nevada. The high desert of Nevada is very different than the “high desert” of Oregon, and survival camping is not the same in every location. They may believe themselves prepared, but I don’t believe their bragging.

  195. 195.

    FridayNext

    @Heliopause:

    Nope. Coke Zero. First, Coke Zero has a black label and was created for real manly men like this guys. Also, among people of certain racially determined ideology, Pepsi has a history of coding black while Coke codes white. I’ve actually read some oral histories of African-Americans from the Jim Crow era in which they discussed getting their asses kicked by whites for drinking Coke. I also have in-laws in Florida who won’t drink Pepsi for this reason. They don’t know the full history, but they do remember a time when Pepsi marketing to African-Americans and featured middle-class blacks being economically successful in their advertisement.

    So, yeah. Send them some Tab and Moxi.

  196. 196.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @jl:
    @beasley: Except we don’t know what they’ve got in their vehicles. And they have decent protection from the cold even with no electricity with merely decent sleeping bags and a box of matches. I doubt the photos are a full accounting of all they have, and are more of a publicity stunt to appeal to sympathetic folks. Plus, it appears that local people have “shown up” to talk to them, and I’m guessing they brought them supplies.

    Anyone who’s ever gone hunting in winter knows how to stay warm with the latest super insulating gear, and how to pack the eats light and calorie rich in case you get lost.

  199. 199.

    Heliopause

    @Mnemosyne:

    All of this misses the point.

    They are successfully (so far) occupying a federal property.

    They are receiving massive publicity and seem to have limitless opportunities to air their grievances to eager reporters.

    They have the capability of hurting and killing people if they so choose.

    Their formal demands obviously can’t be taken seriously, so if we keep to what they can pragmatically expect they’ve already succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

    The high desert of Nevada is very different than the “high desert” of Oregon

    Why do people keep bringing this up as if it means anything? Nobody has the slightest idea what their capabilities are in this environment, it’s all just speculation and bald assertion. If you have in-depth information on the identities and backgrounds of everybody in that compound please share it.

    And in the end, does it truly matter if they are there six days or six months? This operation has already been a huge success for them, for the reasons I gave above.

  201. 201.

    debbie

    @Heliopause:

    They successfully occupied a federal property and have the complete attention of international media.

    Kind of like Bush/Cheney’s Shock and Awe, right? No plans once you’re in there. Brilliant strategy!

  202. 202.

    Peter VE

    Plow the access roads closed with the next snowfall. Cut the power. Disconnect the phone line so they can’t call out, except a direct tie to a negotiator. Play with laser pointers at night.

  205. 205.

    a different chris

    I vote for a full-on ‘self-deportation’ strategy. I would hope FBI or whoever knows who all these idiots are, though wouldn’t be surprised if they have purposely avoided looking at them too closely, in the name of ‘not escalating hostilities’ or whatever weasel-words are used when it’s only some aw-shucks white guys with guns.

    Cancel their business licenses. Suspend their driver’s licenses. Cancel their car tags. No more contracts for land use. Let them learn what self reliance really means. Then, as they’re starving to death and living in a culvert under the highway, pick them up whenever the opportunity presents and cart them off to jail to stand trial for all the bullshit that’s led up to now.

  207. 207.

    magurakurin

    @Heliopause: That part of Oregon is almost in Nevada. The high desert of Neavda and high desert of Oregon are pretty much the same place. The Bundys are from the desert around Vegas and that is the Mojave Desert quite different from the Great Basin deserts to the north. But yeah, for all we really know these guys could have spent the last five years working in Wyoming. Either way though cold as hell in that part of Oregon. I went through there once on a road trip exploring the Great Basin. Empty, empty spaces. Beautiful stars at night.

  210. 210.

    TriassicSands

    No question about it, the ideal outcome would be for these right wing idiots to eat each other.

Comments are closed.