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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: “Welcome to Hell”

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: “Welcome to Hell”

by Anne Laurie|  January 5, 20166:30 am| 109 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Open Threads, Nobody could have predicted

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pic.twitter.com/6Maz9Sxk8S

— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) January 5, 2016

Simon Maloy, in Salon, has some “Irrational hopes for 2016“:

Well, it’s officially 2016. Welcome to hell! The presidential election is still nearly a year away, which means there’s plenty more time to build on the surreal and debased politicking that marked the last six months of 2015…

Ed Kilgore, at NYMag, recaps some useful history in “Here Comes Iowa, for a Whole Month”:

When the apple dropped on Thursday night, we formally entered a presidential election year. In the last two cycles, the first voting event — the Iowa caucuses — occurred immediately, on January 3. But this year, thanks to some energetic maneuvering by both parties to discourage states from rushing toward the early parts of the calendar (a.k.a. “front-loading”), we’ll be treated to an entire month of post-holiday corn-fed political goodness from Iowa before voters gather on Monday, February 1. Since an awful lot of caucusgoers have in the past changed their preferences in the last couple of weeks (with 2012 winner Rick Santorum the last to surge out of nowhere in the past few weeks), the extra time adds some extra drama to the race…

Since the Donald seems to do relatively well among independents and even some registered Democrats, it’s worth noting that Iowa allows registered voters to change their party affiliation at the door on Caucus Night. Fortunately for all the candidates, the Republican caucuses (unlike those held by Democrats) feature simple candidate-preference straw polls that don’t take a lot of time or training…

Like the Democrats, the Republicans will hold a debate in South Carolina this month (on January 14, a Thursday, with the Fox Business Network sponsoring). But they’re also holding a Fox News debate in Iowa on January 28, on the brink of the caucuses. This unusual event will probably have sky-high ratings in Iowa, and could immediately precede the release of the final Des Moines Register/Bloomberg poll, a highly regarded survey conducted by Iowa pollster Ann Selzer that has been known to capture — and perhaps stimulate — late momentum. The timing of both these events is especially significant for Republicans insofar as last-minute switching from doomed candidates is very likely…

Though polls sometimes don’t adequately capture how likely it is that respondents will actually turn out on a cold night to a caucus, Clinton has led Sanders in every published poll of Iowa since September. In the RealClearPolitics average of recent polls, Clinton has 50 percent in Iowa, Sanders has 38 percent, and Martin O’Malley has 6 percent.

While Sanders may have an enthusiasm advantage, grassroots organization could be a different matter. Aside from the head start Clinton has from her 2008 contacts in the state, and the fairly extensive infrastructure set up by the Ready for Hillary super-pac before she announced, she’s benefiting from overwhelming support from unions that are politically active in Iowa. She’s been endorsed by three of the most significant: AFSCME, SEIU, and the Machinists, along with both teachers’ unions. That means she will have hundreds of organizers on the ground to identify supporters, get them to their precincts, and train them on what to do when they arrive (not as easy a proposition as in the Republican caucuses, since Democrats don’t just vote for their favorites but instead go through a lengthy process of dividing up into preference groups, redividing if there are candidates who don’t meet a minimum “viability” threshold — as will be the case in many precincts with Martin O’Malley supporters — and then electing delegates to a county convention)…

As noted above, the Republican results reported by the news media on Caucus Night will be based on simple preference ballots cast by caucusgoers. For Democrats, the numbers you will see are actually percentages of estimated state convention delegates for each candidate based on how many county convention delegates they’ve actually snagged. Candidate spinners and the media will be on hand to help the rest of the country “understand” what it’s all supposed to mean. And a lot of the hype you’ll hear between now and February 1 will be designed to shape what opinion leaders think of it all…

***********
Apart from getting out the pig-manure-proof waders, what’s on the agenda for the day?

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Reader Interactions

109Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 6:48 am

    what’s on the agenda for the day?

    Wondering what the IQ level must be to qualify for an intelligent over the shoulder boulder holder

  2. 2.

    Mustang Bobby

    January 5, 2016 at 6:52 am

    Well, what’s an armed rebellion without a little nosh?

  3. 3.

    MomSense

    January 5, 2016 at 7:00 am

    You can’t fight tyranny on an empty stomach.

  4. 4.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 7:04 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’ve already got the home automation thing down, take that Zuckerberg. Fuckin low tech peasant.

  5. 5.

    Anne Laurie

    January 5, 2016 at 7:07 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Wondering what the IQ level must be to qualify for an intelligent over the shoulder boulder holder

    Dang, you got me excited about the hope of some miraculous nanotechnology fiber that might be able to adjust for the reality that no two sets of boobies are exactly identical, something that would make surreptitious adjustments a thing of the past.

    But no… it’s just a chest-embracing fitbit, for fashionistas who can’t bear to spoil their ensembles with a cheap-looking plastic bracelet. (And from the pics at your link, probably even more uncomfortable than the average underwire model, ugh.)

  6. 6.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 7:12 am

    @Anne Laurie: Huh. I was just kinda hoping it could do taxes or something.

  7. 7.

    debbie

    January 5, 2016 at 7:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “Women gravitate towards wearables, but they don’t want an item they have to put on or worry about every day,”

    The poor dears.

  8. 8.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 7:13 am

    @Anne Laurie: You’d think the fashionistas would have Apple Watches. I have a rather stylish Android Ware smart watch that works for me.

  9. 9.

    Face

    January 5, 2016 at 7:17 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: A true “smart bra” is one that voice-actively unhooks during naughty time.

  10. 10.

    MomSense

    January 5, 2016 at 7:19 am

    My linking fu is weak right now so I will just point people to an article at shakesville that raises an important issue concerning the fundraising of Sanders and Clinton for down ticket Democratic candidates. Clinton has raised 18 million for down ticket Dems and sanders has raised zero. Zero. This pisses me off for a lot of reasons so I hope primary voters ask him how the hell he will get any of his economic policies through Congress if he isn’t even working to elect sympathetic people to serve.

  11. 11.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 7:24 am

    @MomSense: Cause if Bernie gets elected there will be a revolution, things will just get passed.

    [/half snark]

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 7:33 am

    Add this to the “Things I don’t want to know” file:

    After cleaning a 91-year-old’s bondage gear, I couldn’t look at him the same way again

  13. 13.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 7:33 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’ve already got the home automation thing down,

    Clap on, clap off.

  14. 14.

    Iowa Old Lady

    January 5, 2016 at 7:33 am

    I’m counting down the days until caucus (27 now). I want these people out of here.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 7:34 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Fifty Years of Grey

  16. 16.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 7:37 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: How long are they saying it will take to clean up the Ted Cruz oil slick?

  17. 17.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 7:39 am

    @MomSense: I’ve raised more money for the Dems than that.

  18. 18.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 7:39 am

    @Baud: Ouch

  19. 19.

    gene108

    January 5, 2016 at 7:41 am

    Jesus fucking Christ, when did winter get here!!!

    Gah…I need to figure how to afford to head South for the winter…

  20. 20.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 7:41 am

    @Baud: I don’t have the clap, there’s pills for that.

    ETA: I have Wink and Wemo.

  21. 21.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 7:44 am

    The rain is arriving soon, I hear my wind chines.

  22. 22.

    Germy

    January 5, 2016 at 7:48 am

    World’s smallest man (1956) dancing with his cat

  23. 23.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 5, 2016 at 7:51 am

    @MomSense: Or an empty head.

  24. 24.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 5, 2016 at 7:55 am

    @MomSense: Perhaps Sanders doesn’t understand that it’s not just about him and that he will need a supportive Congress to get anything done.

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 7:55 am

    @Germy: There’s a Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie joke in there somewhere but I can’t quite find it.

  26. 26.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @Germy: Wow. He (the world’s smallest man circa 1956) is much more confident in cats’ general disposition than I am.

  27. 27.

    raven

    January 5, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @gene108: It’s 25 in Athens, where were you going to go?

  28. 28.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    January 5, 2016 at 8:00 am

    @Germy: Neat.

    Kinda-sorta related:

    The Amazing Shrinking Priebus

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 8:00 am

    @raven: Did you ever go to Jungleland as a kid?

  30. 30.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 8:01 am

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    The Amazing Shrinking Priebus

    I think they make pills for that.

  31. 31.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 8:01 am

    @Patricia Kayden: After so many years in Congress, if he hasn’t figured that out by now, I doubt he ever will.

    On the slightly less snarky side, Hillary has raised a whole $18,000,000 for Congressional candidates? Well, Book the cruise! we’re on our way now!

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 5, 2016 at 8:04 am

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    There’s that number again!

  33. 33.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 8:08 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I don’t know what a decent number would be for a presidential candidate to have raised. (Some number greater than zero, I’m sure.)

  34. 34.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 8:12 am

    @Germy: I respect people who can always find a comfortable airplane seat.

  35. 35.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 8:14 am

    @Baud: I usually don’t have much of a problem.

  36. 36.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    January 5, 2016 at 8:17 am

    Apart from getting out the pig-manure-proof waders, what’s on the agenda for the day?

    I really have no idea. I was sent here to Mexico yesterday, but the reason makes no sense. So eventually I will find out why, really.
    In the meantime the food is great and I’m enjoying Badass Amateur Hour in Oregon.

  37. 37.

    Gimlet

    January 5, 2016 at 8:17 am

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/fox-pundit-oregon-militia-are-not-thugs-like-black-protesters-because-they-fight-government-gone-wild/

    Conservative Fox News contributor Deneen Borelli on Monday said that armed militiamen were forced to take over a federal building in Oregon because the government had “gone wild.”

    Fox News host Martha MacCallum noted that the media had been criticized for giving the anti-government militia more favorable coverage than black protesters would receive if they took over federal property.

    “Nothing like the left-wing media using an opportunity to really cloud the instance that’s gone on in Oregon,” Borelli complained. “What people need to understand, what’s going on in Oregon, it is really an overgrowth of government, government gone wild is outreach of government.”

    “You have these individuals who are trying to save their property, save their ranch because the overrun of government is not doing that,” she continued.

    MacCallum wondered if it was fair for the media to refer to unarmed black protesters as “thugs” while labeling the armed militiamen as activists without mentioning that they are white.

    “What happened in [Ferguson, Missouri] is really outrageous because you had individuals who were very destructive, they destroyed property, they destroyed their community,” Borelli opined. “We’re looking at Oregon. Right now, these individuals are being peaceful, they are outraged about the overgrowth of government. It’s government gone wild.”

  38. 38.

    raven

    January 5, 2016 at 8:18 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I saw that question this morning, I don’t remember. We’d go out to Mt Baldy some weekends. My old man loved to start landslides, shoot the 22’s and generally raise hell!

    I’m pretty sure this was at the San Diego zoo circa 1956 or so

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8424/7728079828_a5188d530a_b.jpg

  39. 39.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 8:20 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I respect you.

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    I really have no idea. I was sent here to Mexico yesterday, but the reason makes no sense.

    Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to recapture this guy.

  40. 40.

    MomSense

    January 5, 2016 at 8:22 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I think that was just the fourth quarter fundraising amount.

  41. 41.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 5, 2016 at 8:22 am

    “You have these individuals who are trying to save their property, save their ranch because the overrun of government is not doing that,” she continued.

    Really? It’s their property? No it’s not. It belongs to the government and to the American people by extension. What’s going on in Oregon is nothing but White terrorism which would never be tolerated if the actors were Black or Brown.

    I recall an entire block of homes being destroyed in Philadelphia which resulted in the killing of innocent people when the government couldn’t get at a few Black fugitives. Now we see how docile the government is when the actors are White.

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 8:22 am

    @Baud: Neither do I, but I do know that the much reviled Debbie Wasserman Schultz raises that much for her fellow Congress critters before she sits down to lunch. That’s how she became head of the DNC. $18 mill won’t even buy a 30 sec ad on Oct TV, so let’s not pretend that Hillary is doing a whole lot for her fellow Dems. And to be honest, the best thing she can do to help her fellow Dems come Nov. is win (coat tails and all that) and the same for Bernie should he be nominated.

  43. 43.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 8:25 am

    @raven: Since you were talking about a place in Simi last night, I wondered if you’d gone over the hill to visit Jungleland in TO. I grew up hearing the lions and tigers roaring.

  44. 44.

    amk

    January 5, 2016 at 8:27 am

    @Gimlet: aaand?

  45. 45.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 8:27 am

    I see white streaks on my outside cameras; the rain has begun.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 8:28 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    According to Open Secrets, $18 million is about 2% of the entire amount Dems spent in the 2014 election cycle for House and Senate races. And I assume money is still being raised. So not the lion’s share by any means but not nothing IMHO.

  47. 47.

    MomSense

    January 5, 2016 at 8:31 am

    @Baud:

    The 18 million was the amount Clinton raised in the 4th quarter for down ticket Dems. She raised 39 million for her campaign in the same quarter. Sanders raised 33 million in the 4th quarter for his campaign and zero for down ticket Democrats.

  48. 48.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 8:33 am

    Does anyone watch “Nurse Jackie”? I couldn’t sleep last night and binge-watched a significant chunk of the first season. That is one nutty hospital!

  49. 49.

    amk

    January 5, 2016 at 8:34 am

    @MomSense: Go Hill$.

  50. 50.

    gene108

    January 5, 2016 at 8:40 am

    @raven:

    It’s 25 in Athens, where were you going to go?

    Thinking Southern Hemisphere, where it is peak summer.

    Maybe Australia or South Africa.

  51. 51.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 8:40 am

    @MomSense: That makes a little more sense, considering this run is supposed to go over a billion $. Still, seeing where Bernie is sitting, I think the criticism has more bark than bite. Bernie is no where near the well identified politician that Hillary is. She is a known commodity among Dems and can afford to bank on that fact at this point in time. Bernie is still trying to get people (other than the Berniebots) to take his candidacy serious.

  52. 52.

    JPL

    January 5, 2016 at 8:41 am

    @Patricia Kayden: When Obama was first elected, the same people made the point, that the White House was the people’s house.

  53. 53.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 5, 2016 at 8:45 am

    @gene108: I always liked Tahiti.

  54. 54.

    Matt McIrvin

    January 5, 2016 at 8:46 am

    I don’t wish for a Trump nomination, because even if the guy can’t win, the more prominent he is the more people are going to get killed. I think that’s already clear.

  55. 55.

    MomSense

    January 5, 2016 at 8:49 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    His fundraising numbers for his campaign are right up there with Clinton. Setting aside how much money we need to raise to field good campaigns against oligarch funded campaigns, Sanders benefits from all the work the Democrats have been doing for years to try and build up the organization. Even if the amount of money is symbolic (I don’t think it is!) shouldn’t he use his significant fundraising ability to help the organization whose nomination and support he seeks???

  56. 56.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 8:52 am

    The bird sanctuary yeehawdis posted another recruiting video, this time emphasizing that there’s plenty of convenient parking once recruits bypass the media scrum.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 8:53 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Agree.

  58. 58.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 8:54 am

    @Baud:

    According to Open Secrets, $18 million is about 2% of the entire amount Dems spent in the 2014 election cycle for House and Senate races.

    Sounds to me like one of the reasons we can’t get people to turn out for midterms. (meaning under funded)

  59. 59.

    Baud

    January 5, 2016 at 8:55 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Here’s the page I found.

  60. 60.

    Kay

    January 5, 2016 at 9:02 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m genuinely curious why none of them have jobs or responsibilities where they live. A protest is one thing, it’s +/- 4 hours, tops, but these people can just drop everything, travel from Arizona and camp out for weeks?

    The week after Christmas, no less, when 99% of people are dragging their ass back to work or school. I took the week between off and all I heard yesterday from everyone I encountered was “we’re all back at work”- you know, varying levels of enthusiasm :)

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 9:06 am

    @MomSense: I’ll repeat:

    Bernie is still trying to get people (other than the Berniebots) to take his candidacy serious.

    As to Bernie’s outsider status in the Dem party, that has been the major point against his seeking the Dem nomination from the gitgo and I have made that exact point myself on occasion. Hillary has been raising Money for various Dems for how long now? Since at least January of 1992? She has a lot of good will built up for all that. Bernie is not going to get the same support from Dems in Congress as Hillary no matter how much money he threw at them now. If I were a congress critter my attitude would be, “Oh, so now you want to be my friend?”

  62. 62.

    PurpleGirl

    January 5, 2016 at 9:07 am

    @Kay: At another blog I asked: Don’t these morans have jobs to go to? Or are they independently wealthy and don’t need to work? Maybe their wives work? Inquiring minds want to know.

  63. 63.

    Gimlet

    January 5, 2016 at 9:08 am

    Government late with my check so I can’t join the protest against evil government.

    https://twitter.com/Stonekettle/status/683883520079446016/photo/1

  64. 64.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 9:09 am

    @Kay: Dollars to doughnuts a not-insignificant portion collect government funds in one form or another, either as mooch-ranchers (Bundy gang), disability check recipients, Social Security recipients, military retirees, etc. The rest are probably loud-mouthed layabouts who are supported by their wives.

    I wish some media organization would take up your suggestion from yesterday and look into who stands to gain if this group achieves its aims, i.e., privatizing federal lands. Follow the money!

  65. 65.

    MomSense

    January 5, 2016 at 9:11 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I just want to get more Dems to the Congress!

  66. 66.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 9:12 am

    @Baud: I trust you ;-) but thanx for the link.

  67. 67.

    dogwood

    January 5, 2016 at 9:14 am

    @MomSense:
    For the first time in years I read a diary at Kos the other day. It was about raising money for the DNC. I had to stop after 50 comments or so; those people are unhinged. According to the Clinton camp, she is working for herself AND the party and Bernie’s is just pooping on the party. Enter the Sanders clan. Bernie wants to go to the party and bring all the Cheetos, but the mean girls running the DNC have it out for him.

  68. 68.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 9:17 am

    @MomSense: As do we all.

  69. 69.

    rikyrah

    January 5, 2016 at 9:20 am

    Good Morning, Everyone :)

  70. 70.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 9:25 am

    Add this to the “You gotta be Kidding Me” file:

    Sonic youth: vaginal speaker lets you play tunes to foetuses

    I guess head phones are just too hard to by now.

  71. 71.

    NonyNony

    January 5, 2016 at 9:26 am

    @Kay:

    I’m genuinely curious why none of them have jobs or responsibilities where they live. A protest is one thing, it’s +/- 4 hours, tops, but these people can just drop everything, travel from Arizona and camp out for weeks?

    It’s remarkably hard to track down exactly who Ammon Bundy is in various new stories, but it turns out that Ammon Bundy is a small business owner:

    Ammon Bundy runs a Phoenix-based company called Valet Fleet Services LLC, which specializes in repairing and maintaining fleets of semitrucks throughout Arizona. On April 15, 2010—Tax Day, as it happens—Bundy’s business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program. The available public record does not indicate what the loan was used for or whether it was repaid.

    It’s weird to me that the boss could just up and leave his business like that. Did he leave someone responsible in charge? Is it a slow time for business? Also – did he not realize that the end game of something like this was likely to at best result in him being levied a very large fine and at worst end up with him dead? With the midpoint being that he’s in jail? Who runs his business then?

    White privilege is a powerful drug I guess.

    (Just checked out his Yelp reviews – looks like the merry pranksters haven’t gotten there yet.)

  72. 72.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 9:28 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: too hard to COME by now. grumble grumble

  73. 73.

    Satby

    January 5, 2016 at 9:29 am

    @NonyNony: over half a million dollar loan guaranteed by the jackbooted tyranny of the government’s SBA. No wonder he had to take a stand!

  74. 74.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 5, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @NonyNony:

    Bundy’s business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program.

    That’s some serious gov’t over reach there.

  75. 75.

    NonyNony

    January 5, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @Satby: To be fair, while Ammon uses the rhetoric of being “anti-big government”, from the things I’ve seen him quoted as saying his ideology seems to be that the government is supposed to be there to provide handouts to people like him and to defend them in their use of government handouts. So it is kind of completely consistent with his stance that he would want the government to give him money while also wanting the government to give him land.

  76. 76.

    SarahT

    January 5, 2016 at 9:43 am

    @Betty Cracker: LOVED “Nurse Jackie” – sucks that it’s over.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    January 5, 2016 at 9:49 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I wish some media organization would take up your suggestion from yesterday and look into who stands to gain if this group achieves its aims, i.e., privatizing federal lands. Follow the money!

    I genuinely loathe Rand Paul- I think he’s a complete phony- and he said “return the land to the states and people” which immediately set off my bullshit meter.

  78. 78.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 5, 2016 at 9:50 am

    @Satby: Oh, come on, now. That’s money a hard-working guy like him deserved, not like those moochers with their food stamps buying t-bone steaks.

  79. 79.

    Kay

    January 5, 2016 at 9:52 am

    @SarahT:

    I loved it too. I watched the whole thing over a couple of weeks and no one else in my household liked it so they kept wandering in and bothering me. I don’t know what any of them said over that period.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 10:01 am

    @SarahT: I wasn’t much of a TV series watcher before streaming came along (I am generally unwilling to commit to a schedule), so there’s a backlog of quality series I get to enjoy now. I’d never seen “The Sopranos” or “The West Wing” until the series were long over. So great to be able to watch them on my own timetable; long live Netflix and Amazon Prime! ;-)

  81. 81.

    MomSense

    January 5, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @dogwood:

    I haven’t been to KOS in years. You are very brave to wade in the comments there.

  82. 82.

    SarahT

    January 5, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @Kay: Sounds like my husband when I’m trying to watch just about anything !

  83. 83.

    Oatler.

    January 5, 2016 at 10:14 am

    I’ll be showing solidarity with the Oregon revolutionaries of the Occupation Of the Federal Building, right after my morning dump,power nap and afternoon cartoon marathon.

  84. 84.

    SarahT

    January 5, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @Betty Cracker: If you enjoy really (REALLY) dark comedies like “Nurse Jackie”, you might try “Getting On”, which hbo just cancelled after only 3 seasons – guess not many people wanted to watch a comedy about a geriatric care unit. But as the family caregiver for my mom, it really hit home.

  85. 85.

    rikyrah

    January 5, 2016 at 10:17 am

    There Are No Better Alternatives to Trump
    by BooMan
    Mon Jan 4th, 2016 at 10:58:32 AM EST

    Byron York talks to right-wing billionaires to try to ascertain why they aren’t coordinating to take Donald Trump down. He comes up with five categories of explanation:

    First, creating an organization and spending millions of dollars to carpet-bomb Trump with negative ads in key states isn’t easy; there aren’t many people who could pull it off. Second, some donors think an anti-Trump offensive not only would not work but would backfire on an already unpopular GOP establishment. Third, some who do believe it could work think it should not be attempted until Trump’s critics have agreed on an alternative candidate — which they haven’t. Fourth, the anti-Trump opposition can’t decide who should lead such an effort. And fifth, most GOP strategists and money movers continue to believe Trump will ultimately fail on his own, that in the end he will not be the Republican nominee.

    I think we can safely ignore the first and fifth answers because they’re basically unresponsive. On the first, the premise of the question is that these billionaires could pull off a carpet-bombing of Trump but simply aren’t doing so. On the last, if a carpet-bombing is unnecessary, then what are we even debating?

    The real explanation can be found in the second, third and fourth points. I am going to discuss them out of order.

    The single biggest problem is that there are no acceptable alternatives to Trump. Jeb was supposed to be their guy but he just can’t get any traction. Scott Walker and Rick Perry have already dropped out. Ben Carson’s campaign is in free-fall. Chris Chistie was once a hot commodity with the billionaires, but the closing of the George Washington Bridge put an end to that romance. Marco Rubio has his Miami Vice problem, and if there is one thing that Jeb campaign has been largely successful at in this campaign, it has been warning big donors about the skeletons in Rubio’s closet. Other than Ted Cruz, that leaves no one with the finances, polling numbers, and potential to win that billionaires need to see before they get invested.

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 10:19 am

    @SarahT: I will check it out — thanks! I liked “Six Feet Under,” which was pretty dark. Well, I liked most of it. It had a few weak seasons but was otherwise a solid series, IMO.

  87. 87.

    Capri

    January 5, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @Patricia Kayden: It’s all apples and oranges. In the Philadelphia incident, it was the Philadelphia police department that was responsible. In Ferguson, it was their police department. In Oregon it’s the federal BLM or some other non-paramilitary organization. Certainly race plays a role, but it is the absence of a militarized police force that is keeping the situation from ramping up.

    Calling every official in any capacity “the government” doesn’t help.

  88. 88.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    January 5, 2016 at 10:28 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Actually, the pills for the clap are rapidly becoming ineffective. So, depending on the strain you have, there may not be a pill for that.

  89. 89.

    rikyrah

    January 5, 2016 at 10:32 am

    I agree with this.

    ………………..

    THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 1/4/16

    New calls for federal probe of Snyder admin in Flint water fiasco

    Bryn Mickle, Flint Journal/MLive editor, talks with Rachel Maddow about why his organization is calling for a federal investigation, including subpoena power, of what the Rick Snyder administration knew, and when, about the problems with lead and the new water supply to Flint.

  90. 90.

    rikyrah

    January 5, 2016 at 10:35 am

    Kasich, running for president, professes ignorance of Oregon standoff
    4:50 p.m. CST January 4, 2016

    Ohio Gov. John Kasich, who is seeking the Republican presidential nomination, said while campaigning in Iowa on Monday that he had no knowledge about a standoff in eastern Oregonwhere armed anti-government protesters have taken over a federal wildlife refuge.

    The Oregon protest, which began Saturday night, has attracted national news headlines on radio, TV, newspapers and from Internet sources. But Kasich — a former U.S. congressman — repeatedly told a reporter from The Des Moines Register on Monday that he didn’t know anything about it. Then Kasich excused himself and headed outside to his vehicle.

    Kasich’s profession of no knowledge about the situation was unexpected because presidential candidates who visit Iowa are routinely quizzed at length about current events and policy issues while on the campaign trail. His response to the question about the incident involving federal property in Oregon came just after he finished a campaign appearance before more than 100 people at a coffee shop in West Des Moines’ historic Valley Junction business district. During his remarks to the audience, he talked at length about how he would respond in a tough manner against ISIS terrorists if he were elected to the White House.

    Kasich campaign spokesman Rob Nichols emailed The Des Moines Register about four hours after the event in West Des Moines with an update: “He’s aware of the issue. This was an error in staff briefing,” Nichols said.

  91. 91.

    father pussbucket

    January 5, 2016 at 10:36 am

    “White privilege performance art”

  92. 92.

    rikyrah

    January 5, 2016 at 10:37 am

    @rikyrah:

    ASKING anyone in Michigan..

    Have the UNITED STATES SENATORS from MICHIGAN spoken up and out about this poisoning in Flint?

  93. 93.

    Paul in KY

    January 5, 2016 at 10:44 am

    @Kay: They’re probably all on the dole.

  94. 94.

    rikyrah

    January 5, 2016 at 10:47 am

    UH HUH
    UH HUH

    Trump takes mainstream tone, no longer too fringey for GOP
    Rachel Maddow looks back at the 2012 Republican primary in which Donald Trump had a strong start but was ultimately too embarrassingly fringey for mainstream Republicans, compared to 2016 when Trump, still of-the-fringe, is the Republican front-runner and redefining the party’s mainstream.

  95. 95.

    Germy

    January 5, 2016 at 11:03 am

    Ladies and gentlemen, a left-wing version of ALEC

    Local Progress is a national coordinating organization for left-wing US city councillors that supports initiatives like higher minimum wages, bans on fracking and deportation detention centers, multilingual information for voters, guaranteed sick leave, predictable working hours for part-timers, restricting foreclosures, and improving access to voting.

    The group was formed as a kind of left-wing version of ALEC, which drafts anti-worker and pro-corporate legislation for state legislatures (ALEC has formed a municipal version to compete with Local Progress).

  96. 96.

    EthylEster

    January 5, 2016 at 11:09 am

    @Betty Cracker mentioned nurse Jackie : I have the final season on hold at the lib. A very convincing portrait of a control freak/addict. Fantastic lead performance. Ultimately it’s about how terrifying motherhood can be to an insecure person. Sometimes very hard to watch.

  97. 97.

    gvg

    January 5, 2016 at 11:13 am

    @rikyrah: You know I think I can argue that the rank and file GOP voters could have found it convincing that their supposed representatives were so out of touch with them when most of the leadership jumped on the JEB bandwagon and called him the favorite etc. I thought Jeb had to have been getting really dumb advice to even think he had a chance in less than a generation and if he or another Bush did have a chance they would have to clearly pick different advisors, have specific positions that weren’t connected to the past mistakes and spell out where things could have been different. Instead he just went with the same ole plot and people and is surprised no one likes him except some wealthy guys…whose names need to remembered as people whose advice should not be followed. The GOP tribe may be anti Obama but they didn’t like Iraq’s results, nor shrugging off getting Osama, nor bankers getting off scot free. Romney’s insults didn’t impress either. They may be too anti Democrat to vote for us, but their own base should be realizing their leaders are treacherous. So their looking for…something else.

  98. 98.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 5, 2016 at 11:33 am

    Any chance of a new thread to discuss the President’s upcoming (11:40 am EST) remarks on guns?

  99. 99.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 5, 2016 at 11:34 am

    @Baud: Sadly, this bleeding heart liberalism will impede your run for President.

    @Capri: So if we had the exact situation in Oregon except the actors were non-White, would the BLM just sit them out? Doubt it. This is the ultimate showcasing of White privilege. I don’t care which level of government is responsible for letting Bundy and his fellow terrorists get away with taking over a federal building and making threats to law enforcement officials. If Bundy was Black, BLM wouldn’t be so lenient.

  100. 100.

    Germy

    January 5, 2016 at 11:44 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thank you for the reminder. I’m watching it now on broadcast TV

  101. 101.

    gogol's wife

    January 5, 2016 at 11:46 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Are you okay? (Maybe this is answered upthread.)

  102. 102.

    Sherparick

    January 5, 2016 at 11:47 am

    @Kay: The Federal Government is the People’s Government. Says so in the opening lines of the Constitution they claim they revere so much.

    Just a thought, but given the batshit insane reaction by our Republican friends and the Right-Wing Borg to the President’s modest actions on extending background checks to dealers who sell firearms at gun shows, I can’t help but think the President is just trolling these people to reveal to world just how insane they all are.

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/obama-goes-around-gop-takes-new-steps-prevent-gun-deaths#break

  103. 103.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 11:50 am

    PBO gun safety action thread up!

    @gogol’s wife: Yes, thanks! :)

  104. 104.

    Adam L Silverman

    January 5, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    @Kay: @PurpleGirl: @Gimlet: @Betty Cracker: A lot of them are on disability. Some of them are retired military, so they have their military retirement. Other’s have Veteran’s benefit disability income. Others receive significant subsidies for their farms/ranches. As has been reported, Ammon Bundy has a large SBA subsidized loan for his ranch, but he also owns a fleet maintenance business. Mike Vanderboegh, the founder of the III Percenters and proprietor of the Sipsy Street Irregulars Blog, is on 100% disability, but he hates the government. It is unclear what Ritzheimer does. Hell, its unclear if he ever actually served in the Marines, let alone in combat, but I’ve never seen anyone reference how his income in comes. Ryan Payne is an electrician – its unclear if he has his own business and someone is now managing it for him or how his income in comes either. Payne has, however, pissed of a lot of other Veterans because he’s claimed to be a Ranger and he’s not even Ranger tabbed, let alone served in the Regiment. Rather he was an infantry scout in a Military Intel company.

    All of this goes with what we were discussing last night. What seems to us like incoherent reasoning: dependent on the government for income while absolutely despising the government and calling for or engaging in violence against its tyranny, is internally coherent to them. They’re owed it. They’ve earned it. They deserve it. Its not the same thing. Etc, etc, etc.

  105. 105.

    Betty Cracker

    January 5, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m somewhat familiar with that mindset. My father is a wingnut who always complains about government spending, but when the Gulf oil spill tangentially affected his business, he had no qualms about collecting a check. It’s useless to point out the contradiction.

  106. 106.

    Satby

    January 5, 2016 at 12:53 pm

    @rikyrah: Yeah, that’s been a fucking travesty. And the damage from lead exposure will affect them for decades. Snyder and his appointed emergency management team need to go to jail over that.

  107. 107.

    Satby

    January 5, 2016 at 12:58 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: and every man collecting either a veteran pension or disability payments from the government should lose them based on their insurrection against that government. Doesn’t the military code of conduct still apply to retired military?

  108. 108.

    Capri

    January 5, 2016 at 3:14 pm

    @Betty Cracker: When I’ve run across folks like your Dad the first thing I ask them, as soon as they let someone get a word in edgewise, is, “So, what branch of the government do you work for?” To date, every single one is getting a check of some sort from Uncle Sam. Even the guy who went on at length about how he won’t allow dimes in his pockets because they have a picture of FDR on them (i.e. the original socialist) was a state employee.

    They are like teenagers – who live in their parents house, eat the food provided by their parents, wear the clothes provided by their parents, enjoy health care because they are on their parent’s policies – but spend all their time crying about how rotten their parents are and how they are independent actors.

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