I’m enraged by the news in Zander’s post below. Happy to let any of seditionists out of the Malheur HQ — but only into the welcoming arms of federal custody.
That’s a legitimate political view — and you know what sane and patriotic people do with such views? They call their representatives in Washington to let them know how they feel.
I just left a message at Senator Warren’s office and spoke to a nice young (I’m guessing) staffer in Rep. Joe Kennedy’s. Markey is next on my list. I told them how disgusted I was at the action of the Malheur thugs — stealing our property, yours, mine, and the whole damn American people’s while, many of them, stealing from the public till for years and years.
The key though is that I also made a request: I want my Congressional representatives to put the question to federal law enforcement as to why they are not enforcing the law, either by denying the radical right wing intimidators their freedom of movement as long as they remain on the people’s property, or by arresting them when they do choose to wander.
It’s not much, but it’s not nothing either. These folks only succeed because their supporters are vocal and active, while the hundreds of millions whom they rip off, disrespect and aim to intimidate and coerce just want to go about their business. A little volume on our side of the playground is actually significant.
So call your official peeps! Takes a minute or two, and it’s worth the effort. This is also one where the partisan identification of your representatives matters a little less than on some of the calls to action this blog has made. Armed take-overs of public buildings strikes a little close to home for a lot of Congressfolk.
So call! Be polite; know the message you want to send; thank the kids on the other end of the line for their help; and lets start making the country marginally more sane, one firmly worded dispatch at a time.
The phone numbers:
House and Senate switchboard: 202-224-3121. Individual senator phone numbers. Individual representative phone numbers. (Both lists by state. You can sort by last name as well.)
Have at it, friends.
ETA: In case you want to call the Executive Branch directly (as some in the comment thread would seem to do), here’s the White House comment line: 202-456-1111. Feel like give Justice a ring? 202-353-1555.
Image: Gerrit A. Beneker, Telephone Operator (A Weaver of Public Thought) 1921.
Bnad
Let them come and go as they please. The lifeblood of their protest is drama, mostly self-created. It’s in the public interest not to add to that drama. If you’re one of them, driving back to the siege with food, past rows of parked FBI and local law enforcement vehicles that do nothing to stop you and maybe even wave, it kind of takes the wind out of the sails of your grand stand for freedom.
Tom Levenson
@Bnad: Strongly disagree. Cut ’em off and wait. Then arrest their sorry asses and pursue the maximum sentences allowed by law.
benw
CCF’s a pretty boring acronym. Can’t we start calling them the League for Opposing Obama’s Nefarious Socialists? Or the Daring Independent Patriots for Saving the Homeland from Islamic TerroristS?
Betty Cracker
@Tom Levenson: I’m with you, Tom. The fact that Bundy père appears to have gotten away with mooching off public lands and threatening federal employees is what emboldened these morons. A violent confrontation may not be necessary, but consequences most definitely are.
Waldo
I think there’s some good that can come from all this. Next time you see a homeless person, instead of giving them a handout, give them a handgun — and a bus ticket to Oregon.
Germy
cartoon of the day
Corner Stone
If I were the parent of a black child I would be fucking furious. My kid can’t play in the park or walk home from the store without getting killed? Let a black man commit the crime of selling tax free loosies and it’s ok to choke him to death but these fools get their johnsons fluffed by LEO?
I believe in fomenting equal justice under the law, and that means no one above it just as much as no one below.
This isn’t a hostage situation where you’re trying to negotiate the women and kids out. These guys took proactive steps to knowingly break the law. Gov should take steps to bring them to their day in court. The sooner they arraign these clowns the sooner we can all forget about them and get back to complying with President Trump’s latest yoooge and classy EO.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: As am I. I’m furious that they still have heat. How soon before someone arranges a pot luck supper and they can all sing around the camp fire.
Mike J
You think congress should be dictating tactics to law enforcement? You think this is going to make things *better* next time there’s a protest after a cop has murdered a kid?
dedc79
Agree with Tom and Betty. If some of them want to leave to grab some food that’s the ideal time to arrest them one at a time. Then the ones left behind will quickly realize that they’re stuck with only the food left in the building, and it won’t take long for them to surrender. Cutting the power will speed things along too.
The Moar You Know
Shit, you’ve been suckered as bad as the Idiot Brigade. Do you really think these guys can just make a beer run and drive back, no questions asked?
This is how you pick ’em off a few at a time.
joes527
I couldn’t disagree more.
Congress is the wrong branch to be calling on this.
If only there was a branch of government that the FBI belonged to …
Gimlet
Each day this drags on, the tab goes up by how much?
Letting them come and go allows this to continue.
schrodinger's cat
Is this a slow news week?So far there have been easily >10 FP posts on this story.
geg6
@Mike J:
So, who, exactly, do you propose we complain to about this situation? Or are you like the LEOs out there, perfectly happy to just let this all slide so we don’t have to trouble our beautiful minds about this and the differences between this situation and all of those where unarmed black and brown kids are gunned down for no reason whatsoever by LEOs?
Mary G
Even the whacko Oathkeepers don’t think this occupation was such a good idea. They have “inside info” that a federal special ops team has been sent in.
geg6
@Mary G:
Because they’re never delusional any other time, right?
That said, if the Oathkeepers think these guys are idiots, I can’t begin to imagine the level of idiocy out there in Malheur.
Soylent Green
@joes527: Joes527 is right. This is the White House’s call.
Mike J
@geg6: I would prefer smart policing when dealing with protesters I agree with rather than more dumb policing when dealing people I disagree with.
joes527
@Mike J:
Of course not. For one thing, they don’t have the power.
What they _can_ do is hold a series of Bird-ghazi! hearings over the next several years. Evidently Tom thinks that will improve the situation.
Tom Levenson
@joes527: Called the DOJ too. Comment line: 202-353-1555. Also called Nancy Pelosi’s comment line: 202-225-0100. Will call the White House in a bit; trying to get a little work done this afternoon.
IOW: You aren’t limited to your representatives. But they are the most common pathway for citizens to contact specific federal agencies. If you want to go further, amen, bretheren and cistern. (Didn’t come out right, that last, did it?)
Dork
@The Moar You Know: I really hope it’s not true, but by the words of the local Sheriff, it appears to be. If they were being arrested one by one, I’m pretty sure CNN would be reporting this….
jl
@Mike J: The idea is not to get Congress to micormanage law enforcement, but to show our representatives that there is popular opinion countering the reactionary white militia and federal government welfare cheat/ con man constituency.
I will call, and also express very strong support for further restrictions on cattle grazing on federal land and where still permitted, ending federal grazing subsidies since they need to pay the total cost of their land use.
Tom Levenson
@joes527: You could be more silly. But it would take some work.
jl
@joes527: Well, I guess we can cal the WH too. That is a good idea. Why not call both. I will. Thanks.
Maybe get up one of those WH petitions on it.
trollhattan
In the meantime what about the people who, you know, would like to come and enjoy the wildlife refuge? They’ve had the opportunity stolen from them, as have area businesses who earn tourist dollars (although I suppose media and FBI dollars are making up for that).
joes527
@Tom Levenson: Not trying to be silly. I find the idea that Congress should be injecting itself into Law Enforcement tactical decisions deeply, deeply disturbing.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m as frustrated by the hall pass as you are. But I believe that Congress a) has no power to dictate police tactics, and b) SHOULD have no power to dictate police tactics.
Waldo
Man, there’s never a Jade Helm around when you need one.
geg6
@joes527:
Nobody is saying they should dictate police tactics. Please show where someone has said that.
What we are saying is that the first contact we, the people, have, theoretically, when we want to know what the feds are going to do about something we oppose/support is our congresscritters. That is how they gauge what the voters want. If we always just sit back and let only the crazies be heard from, the crazies are the only ones who are being listened to.
Tom Levenson
@joes527: Here’s the issue: Ordinary citizens do not have a ready lever to pull to influence decisions at the DOJ or in the FBI. We do have representatives in Washington. It is a long-established and routine part of the job of a member of Congress to act as the conduit for constituent complaints with executive agencies. People call their representatives for all kinds of such help. When an executive action troubles us, calling the White House is great. Calling the DOJ is great. But calling your rep. is the most direct way available to let the agencies know that there is a citizen-and hence a political- dimension to their actions.
Nothing here about dictating law enforcement. It’s all about making sure that the civil power has a connection to the civil polity it policies.
JPL
@Tom Levenson: It’s easy to ask if your rep has made a statement about the militant takeover of a wildlife sanctuary. I’m neat the Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area, Island Ford Unit and if militants took it over, there would be an uproar.
The Thin Black Duke
It’s bad enough when a black child waving a toy gun is murdered by a white cop. But what’s worse is when there’s a video of this atrocity and it doesn’t make a damned bit of difference. So when I see these wanna-be Rambos waving their guns around, it makes me angry and it makes me sick to my stomach and it brings tears to my eyes when I realize that these assholes are probably going to get away with their bullshit. Meanwhile, every time I see flashing blue lights in my rear view mirror, I’m scared to death. Thanks for reminding me of my status in White America, folks.
Paul in KY
@benw: I like the 2nd one. Both good, though.
Rashi
@srv: poi vey
Lee
Have not clicked the links but have they actually left & come back yet?
Because I’m thinking this might be a bit of disinformation on the part of the feds.
“Sure you can come back”
As soon as the idjits are away from the spotlight and their ‘fortifications’ they quietly slip the cuffs on them with little drama and a lot of safety.
Paul in KY
@The Moar You Know: I hope you’re right. Have seen way too much kowtowing to white idjits.
WarMunchkin
@schrodinger’s cat: I dunno, I feel like the mass, organized sexual assault story in Cologne is a discussion-worthy story, despite the fact that it’s catnip for wingers.
Germy
@WarMunchkin: Or more Trump vileness?
What sort of man is Trump?
rp
This is an idiotic story IMO, and we’re spending far too much time thinking and talking about these morons. Law enforcement should treat them like the inconsequential idiots that they are.
Felonious Monk
Ammo Bundy and The Shit-Heads for Free-Dumb playing their first venue on the Give Us Snacks or Give Us Death tour. Book them for your wildlife refuge now. Tour dates going fast.
goblue72
One law for whites. One law for blacks. The longer this goes on like this, the more and more whatever shred of moral authority that the government has just disappears down the rabbit hole.
Keith G
Really?
Call a Senator?
How about the White House? If this is an enforcement cluster fuck (I do not think that it is) shouldn’t those with ultimate enforcement accountability receive a “WTF?” message form those concerned?
Edit:
@goblue72:
Where does Obama and Lynch fit into this line of thinking?
joes527
@Tom Levenson: I also find ordinary citizens calling in to direct police tactics to be deeply disturbing.
We aren’t talking about police acting illegally or unconstitutionally. Stop-and-frisk had to be stopped because it was unconstitutional. All branches on deck to stop police from acting illegally is entirely appropriate.
We aren’t talking about a pattern or general practice. Yes, white men are treated differently than all others in this country. But this: “you can go to the store and we’ll hold your place at the siege for you” thing that we are talking about here … there isn’t a pattern of this treatment even for good old boys.
So we are talking about a particular (legal) police tactic in a particular situation. (a tactic that, yes, I find incomprehensible)
Applying the power of the Congress, or even the power of the people to such a specific tactical decision in a specific situation would be an illustration of how democracy can get it wrong.
Matt McIrvin
Oh God, Conor Friedersdorf is starting to lecture liberals on how they’re getting liberalism wrong in regard to the Oregon standoff. I don’t even want to read it.
Rashi
@Keith G: Obama isn’t black. I mean, maybe his skin color is.
The Moar You Know
@WarMunchkin: May well be catnip for wingers but this is going to have far more lasting, ugly effects on the world than six idiots occupying a birder center in the middle of nowhere.
When Europe cracks down – and they inevitably will – it’s gonna be fucking ugly. Third Reich ugly, minus death camps (I hope).
geg6
@Matt McIrvin:
I saw a little about this at LGM. Apparently, we liberals and the Failquaeda bunch have the same goals. Somehow. I don’t understand what exactly. I’m too stupid for young Conor’s brilliant and cogent analysis.
glory b
@Corner Stone: I’m the parent of two black young people and you are absolutely correct. The young people I know have seen this and think the same.
“Chuckle chukle, wait the loons out” isn’t helpful. Some of us are upset at being seen as a nation where a blantant defiance of the law is treated appropriately for some, met with overwhelming force for others and shrugged off for a third group.
Keith G
BTW, now local Native American tribes are making their dissatisfaction known with the illegal takeover .
“We were here first.”
low-tech cyclist
@joes527:
As others have said, what power??
All Congress can do is request an explanation. And that’s all we’re asking for when we call up. (I’ve called Hoyer (my Rep) and both my Senators already.) That doesn’t force the hand of whichever Federal law enforcement agency is handling this. But it does relay the message that citizens want to be sure that these bozos aren’t let off the hook. What the Feds do with that message is up to them.
Sounds to me like the way democracy ought to work.
goblue72
@Keith G: Their color does not insulate them from criticism. Anymore than the “I got a black friend” insulates a white person from criticism of doing racist stuff or perpetuating racism.
One can be a person of color and through one’s actions – or lack of actions – participate in – and perpetuate – institutionalized racism.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
The problem with a lot of the reporting on this, as seen by this person who has picked up most of it by osmosis, is that lots of people talking about what’s happening must only be seeing part of the picture. I think gvg in a previous thread said it pretty well.
Why would the local sheriff or state patrol officer be arresting people for actions under federal jurisdiction? He wouldn’t (it seems obvious to me, but maybe I’m missing something).
Until the BLM or NPS or whoever runs the federal site out there (or whoever has the jurisdiction over federal crimes on federal land) speaks up, it’s all a bunch of noise.
Just because nothing’s happened yet that the press is talking about doesn’t mean that nothing is happening. It took 15 days after 9/11 for the US to have any presence in Afghanistan, and almost a month to start the actual operation (October 7).
Liberals calling Congress, the White House, etc., is almost always a good idea. :-)
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
goblue72
@joes527: It is a time-honored tradition – and perfectly legitimate – in democracy to call your elected representatives when you find something that the executive branch of government is doing that you find wrong/bond-headed/etc. Your average district staff person for a Congressperson probably spends half their time on just that – its called constituent services.
Germy
@goblue72:
Lord knows the RWNJs tie up the phone lines over every little thing they get scared/angry about. They certainly outnumber liberal commenters on my local news online. I suspect they make more phone calls, too.
goblue72
@Germy: And unsurprisingly, they get paid attention to.
Yutsano
@Tom Levenson:
Indeed. The IRS even has a whole procedure in place just to handle Congressional inquiries. It’s a fair assumption that all the other executive branch agencies do as well. Contacting congresscritters because a particular action is not being done is the correct action here.
This also depends on how much control the FBI has on the situation at the moment. I haven’t seen a good source saying they have taken over for the local law enforcement, just that they’re present. I think the FBI SHOULD be in charge right now, but that doesn’t mean they are quite yet.
Alex
That Beneker portrait is great! Really shows the juxtaposition of modern tech and ways of working with Edwardian holdovers on femininity.
AnotherBruce
@Mike J: If there were any apparent law enforcement I might agree with you, buy letting felons make trips to the grocery store does not imply “enforcement’ in any way.
Keith G
@goblue72: FWIW, I agree.
I would add my view that FEDERAL decision makers are taking advantage of the unique situation that these clowns have not taken over a US Court or an active US Dept of Interior office space, but are way out on the middle of butt fuck nowhere.
As critical as I can be of this executive branch, it is maybe a bit ironic that I am one saying, “I bet they have a plan and are letting it play out.”
One can always escalate to force if that option becomes the only tenable exit, and if that happens, I would not want to be in that building chewing on jerky.
Maybe the Feds with badges and guns want to take this chance to show lesser law enforcement that pulling a gun does not have to be the first action.
joes527
@low-tech cyclist:
Wait – I was told that my Bird-ghazi! hearings comment was silly. You do realize that hearings is how Congress requests an explanation? (and “Hearings” is just the name: everyone talks, no one listens)
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Keith G:
Wouldn’t that be a nice take-away lesson from this!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott..
PurpleGirl
@jl:
ending federal grazing subsidies since they need to pay the total cost of their land use.
I agree. No more special prices for the grazing rights. They seem to think that if the land were privatized, they could rent the grazing rights for cheap. Okay, that’s a fantasy because they haven’t realized that if the land were privately owned, the Invisible Hand of the Market ™ would raise prices to make real profits and they’d have to pay a hell of lot more for that grazing.
Soylent Green
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Soylent Green: Thanks very much for the clarification. I appreciate it.
Cheers,
Scott.
joes527
@PurpleGirl:
No. They think that if the land were privatized, it would belong to them by right. They believe that they earned the land by making it useful.
Not. Kidding.
goblue72
@Keith G: Could be, but that seems a bit too similar to the “Obama is just playing 11th dimensional chess” type stuff.
I think the easier conclusion to reach is that the administration feels like this could blow up in their faces and they don’t want to risk it – and they’d rather sit in the back seat and let the locals either solve it or fuck it up. And if the locals fuck it up, then they have political cover to jump in.
kc
@Bnad:
Hell to the motherfucking no. What next, are we gonna let them take over Yosemite National Park? Yellowstone?
prn
Questions for the lawyers here. IANAL, but my spouse has a JD from a top-ranked law school (we started a business after he graduated, and while he’s never practiced, he is very interested in federal law, it’s really a passion of his)
Anyhoo, we were discussing this situation, and his take on it is that the Feds are playing this just right. Right now, these yahoos are a big pain in the ass, but they’ve really haven’t done anything yet but that would earn them serious jail time. But, if they are arrested later, the Feds can issue search warrants, confiscate their computers, gather evidence of conspiracy. And if they can prove acts covered by RICO, this would open them up to serious prison sentences AND civil forfeiture, causing them to lose their homes, businesses, privately-owned land, etc.
This assumes follow-up by the Federal government of course, but such a long game could have the most impact on these assholes
rawhide rawlins
There should be NO grazing, paid for or not, on the public lands. Those lands need to be protected for the native species that are being wiped out by overgrazing for profit. Outlaws are outlaws, armed ones deserve special treatment.
debbie
@joes527:
The Paiute Nation would disagree with that:
Heliopause
@goblue72:
That thought occurred to me too, but I dismissed it because it is so morally repugnant. An entity with the power to deal with a dangerous situation leaving it to an entity that lacks that power, for reasons of political cover? That would be disgusting. I hope your hypothesis is wrong.
Steve from Antioch
1) the occupy Malheur people are idiots
2) publicly, local and federal law enforcement is doing exactly the right thing
3) I hope and expect that the FBI has HRT cleaning their weapons nearby if things go south
4) the hatred and petty vindictiveness displayed by some people calling for more aggressive actions merely show that such people are driven by emotions and should probably work some on their anger issues.
Steve from Antioch
@prn@prn:
Conspiring to take the property of the federal government is one example of sedition under the US code, so they can already be charged with that, and IIRC that can carry a 20 year sentence.
low-tech cyclist
@joes527:
I know it will shock you to hear this, but that isn’t Congress’ only tool. Thanks to the pioneering work of Alexander Graham Bell, Congresscritters can have a staffer get on the phone and talk directly to the appropriate person in the appropriate agency, without having to wait for a committee to vote to hold hearings.
Captain Blood
I say we drop several MOAB 10 ton bombs on them, then send in commandos with machine guns and flamethrowers and turn their corpses into fiery goulash. Then we bring in large John Deere plows and plow under their remains and then salt the earth so that no living thing grows there again. What say you, mates??