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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: Could Not Happen to A More Deserving Party

Open Thread: Could Not Happen to A More Deserving Party

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But seriously… NYTimes, “For Republicans, Mounting Fears of Lasting Split”:

The Republican Party is facing a historic split over its fundamental principles and identity, as its once powerful establishment grapples with an eruption of class tensions, ethnic resentments and mistrust among working-class conservatives who are demanding a presidential nominee who represents their interests.

At family dinners and New Year’s parties, in conference calls and at private lunches, longtime Republicans are expressing a growing fear that the coming election could be shattering for the party, or reshape it in ways that leave it unrecognizable.

While warring party factions usually reconcile after brutal nomination fights, this race feels different, according to interviews with more than 50 Republican leaders, activists, donors and voters, from both elite circles and the grass roots.

Never have so many voters been attracted to Republican candidates like Donald J. Trump and Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who are challenging core party beliefs on the economy and national security and new goals like winning over Hispanics through immigration reform.

Rank-and-file conservatives, after decades of deferring to party elites, are trying to stage what is effectively a people’s coup by selecting a standard-bearer who is not the preferred candidate of wealthy donors and elected officials.

And many of those traditional power brokers, in turn, are deeply uncomfortable and even hostile to Mr. Trump and Mr. Cruz: Between them, the leading candidates do not have the backing of a single senator or governor…

The issues animating grass-roots voters — opposition to immigration, worries about wages and discomfort with America’s fast-changing demographics — are diverging from and at times colliding with the Republican establishment’s interests in free trade, lower taxes, less regulation and openness to immigration.

The fractures could help a Democrat win the White House if Republicans do not ultimately find ways to unite, as one candidate, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, warned last week.

The divide was evident at a recent Greenville, S.C., gathering of bankers and lawyers, reliable Republicans who shared tea and pastries and their growing anxieties about where their party is going. In a meeting room near the wooded shore of Furman Lake, the group of mostly older white men expressed concern that their party was fracturing over free trade, immigration and Wall Street. And they worried that their candidates — mainstream conservatives like Jeb Bush — were losing.

“It’s all really hard to believe that decades of Republican ideas are at risk,” said Barry Wynn, a prominent Bush donor at the meeting…

One can but hope, she said piously. Now, if it weren’t for just one pesky little problem on our side…

Reader Interactions

156Comments

  1. 1.

    Phil Perspective

    In 2014, 61% of Democratic supporters ended up voting, compared with 73% of Republicans.

    What reason did Democrats, saw DWS, give Democrats for turning out? Something like “Free college for everyone!!” Or “We’ll confiscate Bill Gates wealth and redistribute the money!!” Anything positive?

  2. 2.

    Mike in NC

    Elderly conservative white Republicans are seeking the right candidate to guide the country back to the comforting era of the 1950s.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    One of the reasons “establishment” Republicans are in so much trouble is they promised their base a lot red meat they knew they could never pass or achieve. Like repealing Obamacare, shutting down the EPA, sending Lois Lerner and Valerie Jarrett to jail, whatever tickled the once naughty bits of the wheezy Medicare-scooter jockeys.

  4. 4.

    Feathers

    The Dems unwillingness to take state level races seriously is a true problem. And when the Republicans have progressive activists with their hands full just trying to deal with problems on the ground. And an older generation that is openly racist and misogynist (at least if you show up and are Irish or Italian, they let you know why they like you so much). So getting the vote out in off years is a problem that needs more focus.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    The recapture of drug lord Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman took a surprise, Hollywood twist when a Mexican official said security forces located the world’s most-wanted trafficker thanks to a secret interview with U.S. actor Sean Penn.
    [snip]
    On Friday, Mexican Attorney General Arely Gomez said that Guzman’s contact with actors and producers for a possible film about him helped give law enforcement a lead on tracking and capturing the world’s most notorious drug kingpin. Source

  6. 6.

    danielx

    The Republican Party is facing a historic split over its fundamental principles and identity, as its once powerful establishment grapples with an eruption of class tensions, ethnic resentments and mistrust among working-class conservatives who are demanding a presidential nominee who represents their interests.

    Translation: the rubes have figured out the major concern of the Republican Party is protecting the interests of rich assholes and when the deal goes down everything is subordinate to that goal.

  10. 10.

    benw

    @Mike in NC: dibs on making Obama my manservant if that happens! “Barack, be a cool cat and take the jalopy and lay a patch down to the delicatessen and pick me up a pack of Pall Malls! Don’t stop and dilly-dally with the hip daddy-o’s or I’ll get frosted,” I’ll say.

  11. 11.

    Cacti

    @srv:

    This is the rebirth of the GOP into a Populist Party.

    More like this is the evolution of the GOP from a proto-fascist political party to a fully fascist one.

    White people fearful of lost status to “them” is all they have.

  13. 13.

    Cacti

    @MomSense:

    The 1950s save for the tax rates.

    I think you could talk working class whites into higher top tax rates, as long as you guaranteed blacks would return to the back of the bus.

  14. 14.

    Wag

    @Phil Perspective:

    I have minimal problems with Bill Gates. He built something of value and has been generous with his donations , especially with regards to malaria vaccine research. I would focus on redistribution of the Koch brother’s money.

  16. 16.

    Mike J

    @Wag:

    I have minimal problems with Bill Gates. He built something of value and has been generous with his donations

    And never refused to put license plates on his car because he hated the gubbmint, like Steve Jobs.

  17. 17.

    Eric U.

    @srv: he must not watch football, due to performance enhancing drugs, the tackles are more vicious than ever. It’s just that they can’t lead with their head

    Watch a game from the ’70s, and it looks pretty tame. It takes real effort for defenders to tackle. Not now

  18. 18.

    trollhattan

    @srv:
    Confess I never tire hearing pontificating fake toughguys. Next thing you know those sissy NFL dudes will be all, “But I don’t want brain damage!” and other sissy copouts.

  19. 19.

    danielx

    The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of who will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn’t even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it.

    – Davis X. Machina

    If that is the core group of a Populist Party, so be it. Real trouble will arise when they realize they’re not going to get all* the insane stuff they want, because they don’t have the votes at the national level. That being said, they’re not doing badly at all at the state level, which is where a lot of, if not most, decisions happen that affect peoples’ day to day lives.

    *Compromise is regarded as treason, and they’re not big on delayed gratification either since as far as they’re concerned they’ve been waiting to return to the Fifties since…the Fifties. Whether that refers to the 1950s or 1850s depends on who you talk to.

  21. 21.

    debbie

    I’m no supporter of starting a war in Syria, but what is McConnell thinking, saying this out loud?

    Look, I don’t want to tie the hands of the next president. The next president may want to actually defeat ISIL. And I think an AUMF, an authorization to use military force, that ties the president’s hands behind his back is not something I would want to do to a new president who’s going to have to clean up this mess, created by all of this passivity over the last eight years.

    (Not to mention the irony of that last sentence!)

  23. 23.

    lol chikinburd

    Never been so relieved to have another human being in the house again. Sister’s here (though sister’s bag is still at her connecting airport).

  24. 24.

    hkedi

    @srv: HAHAHAAHhaha!!! HAHhaahHAHAaa!! *Gasp* HHAAHAHAH!! HAHAHAhahah! Hah. Hahhhaaa. Haha. ahah.. hhaaa.. *snerk* *gasp* HAHAAHAHA!!!! Hah! HAHA!!! hahaaa…

    Really, pull the other one, it’s got bells on it.

    AHAHAHAHAHA!!!! *Gasp* Hahhaahaaaa,,,,,

  26. 26.

    trollhattan

    @srv:
    Well, you’re not running for president so you’ve got that in your favor. Am confident Baud for President is 100% against calling the NFL players sissies.

  27. 27.

    MomSense

    @lol chikinburd:

    I was late to the thread the other night but wondered if you have a funeral consumers alliance in your area. They may be able to help with cost and options.

  29. 29.

    lol chikinburd

    @MomSense: I’m not aware of one, and the rest of the market here doesn’t look that much more favorable. Family’s helping, though.

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: President Obama’s requests to Congress for an AUMF for dealing with Syria and/or ISIL? 3. Congressional passage of an AUMF for dealing with Syria and/or ISIL? 0.

  34. 34.

    Mike J

    @David Koch: M-F they’ve been showing 1 hour shows from the 80s, which are really past his prime. Saturday and Sunday they show 90minute shows from the 70s. Last night they had Ann-Margret, Flip Wilson and George Carlin. Tonight it was Charlton Heston, David Brenner and Norman Mailer.

  35. 35.

    NotMax

    @Mike J – @David Koch

    Here’s the page with info regarding where it is currently available.

    Full and uncut is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. My understanding is that there remain some music rights and other clearances which have not been settled.

  37. 37.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @trollhattan: Hey, that’s a given. What the modern Pres candidate needs for victory is to bring out a certain number of Saskatchewan Roughrider and New England Steamroller fans without losing the NFL set.

    I can be Baud’s one-man focus group.

  38. 38.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: OT, but can we look forward to a Balloon Juice Bunker Standoff post tomorrow? Will the supply of a cavalry steed combined with the Idaho nut job group declining Bundy’s invitation to leave escalate things? At least between the two groups?

  39. 39.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    Okay, I did not knowingly submit that 3x. It never completed the first 2x. Please delete.

  40. 40.

    Mike J

    @NotMax:

    My understanding is that there remain some music rights and other clearances which have not been settled.

    Mea culpa. Still very different from watching a modern talk show. Comedy bits seem much faster paced. Saw a Carnac the other night. Bangbangbang.

  43. 43.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @amk: Then again, repeating a mildly amusing bon mot to make it look ever more effortful and labored, rather than moving on to the next joke, is the first rule of comedy!

  44. 44.

    Mike J

    Seattle’s police chief invited to the SotU, sitting with first lady, because she’s in charge of making cops not shoot people.

  48. 48.

    sparrow

    That link to the policy disparities between white and non-white is interesting. The non-white voters sound, dare I say it, socialist. (government should provide free college, more services, guarantee basic income, etc).

    Why aren’t they supporting the socialist candidate then?

  50. 50.

    Mike J

    @sparrow:

    Why aren’t they supporting the socialist candidate then?

    This sounds like the Republican argument. “If the n*****s weren’t so stupid they’d vote for me!”

  51. 51.

    Punchy

    It will be funny as shee’ot to watch all these GOP Senators be forced to “support” and expound on his virtues should Cruz win the nommy. Its well-known he’s popular as gonorrhea with his peers, so the level of obviously fake flattery and transparently phony platitudes will just make it hit 11 on the absurd scale….

  54. 54.

    Glidwrith

    @lol chikinburd: FWIW, my aged parents have almost been boasting about the coffin deals they found with Costco. I haven’t looked it up myself, since I find it a bit creepy, but maybe it will offer some options.

  59. 59.

    Amir Khalid

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I remember that the multiple-post thing once quintuple-posted a comment that made it seem like I had an unhealthy obsession with women’s breasts. I suspect the thing is sentient and has a sense of humour.

  60. 60.

    pluege

    ahhhh, to proudly display the disgusting republican/conservative id or continue to hide it – THAT is the question? What is a poor disgusting, craven republican/conservative voter to do.

  61. 61.

    PurpleGirl

    @Wag: Yes, his medical donations world wide have been very good; on the other hand, domestically he gives to school systems only when they will take advice from him on school reform. When I worked for an educational non-profit and saw where he gave his money and for what, I had the feeling he wouldn’t mind destroying the country’s public schools.

  63. 63.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @David Koch:

    If that Carson documentary is the one from American Masters, it is superb. I also recommend the one on David Geffen, if it is available. Very informative about an interesting period in popular music (’70s)—surprisingly so.

  66. 66.

    PurpleGirl

    @lol chikinburd: Good to hear you’re getting some one-to-one real world support. As good as BJ support is (and it’s an important part of this blog community) I think having your sister there will help take some of the pressure off you. Take care of yourself, be well.

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    Rank-and-file conservatives, after decades of deferring to party elites, are trying to stage what is effectively a people’s coup by selecting a standard-bearer who is not the preferred candidate of wealthy donors and elected officials.

    On one of the Sunday shows, a pundit noted Trump’s strength among non-college educated lower income white males and pondered, with some accuracy, that their view is that “Trump is a bully, but he’s our bully.” The GOP money guys created the monster, and now it’s turning on them.

    There was the question of whether Trump is attracting disaffected Democrats and non voters who have abandoned both parties.

    Most national polling still seems to show Democrats (Clinton or Sanders) beating any Republican, but this could change if Trump and Cruz do well in the early and middle primaries.

    Cacti:

    More like this is the evolution of the GOP from a proto-fascist political party to a fully fascist one. White people fearful of lost status to “them” is all they have.

    It may be all they have, but it may also be all they need. Some are looking for easy, simple answers, and Trump is eager to satisfy.

  71. 71.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @amk: I love my Roughriders, but at some point making fun of the obviously more talented NFL is a thing one does around the edges, especially as an American who doesn’t have a jingoistic stake in things.

    The intermix of players is vaguely like thinking of how good American NHL teams would be if all the Canadian talent were dead-set to playing for the Canadian Seven given the slightest chance.

  73. 73.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @Glidwrith: Would it cross the line into creepy if there’s a rep handing out leaflets for coffins, a la the roofing guys at our warehouse store?

  75. 75.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @amk: I am not in charge of the fucking blog. I merely pointed out a fact. Sorry I bore you; I do try so hard to entertain one and all. May I offer you a refund?

  76. 76.

    sparrow

    @Mike J: wtf? I didn’t say they were stupid, I was genuinely asking, *if the poll correctly shows that they are far more socialist in ideals than white people*, why are they are supporting Sanders in lower numbers than Clinton? and in much lower numbers than white people? It may just be personality/name recognition/poll is wrong, whatever. I would like to understand it. There is obviously a disconnect there.

  78. 78.

    sparrow

    @David Koch: Ok, a not unreasonable explanation. Still seems strange to me given the huge swings in those graphs (some are as large as 40 points!). But then, there is also the issue that many of those same swings in opinion were seen between registered and unregistered people, so it could be that the disconnect between polling of likely voters and the expressed preferences of minorities is also not as big as it seems at first.

  79. 79.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @sparrow: Because they don’t think Sanders has a chance of winning. Also, the fact that Sanders tends to reduce everything to economics and the world doesn’t work that way. That is this white guy’s assessment.

  81. 81.

    eemom

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    My good Omnes, what has happened to this blog? You’ve always been the voice of reason and still are….yet these altercations with Jean and Joan and a who knows who are increasingly frequent. Don’t think it’s your fault. Jussayinzall.

  83. 83.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @Omnes Omnibus: CFL rules.limit the number of import players on active roster, and on the field, at one time. The appeal of CFL play for guys who might have a better shot in the NFL by going to the latter’s training camps and practice squads creates the need for an odd calculus figuring out which American players to try to sign and give one of those limited spaces to.

    As for the NHL bit, Americans want to play for the NFL if they can. But Canadians aren’t adverse to playing NHL hockey for American teams (Sid Crosby in Pittsburgh, rather than his home Ontario,for example). It’s an inexact comparison, I’ll admit.

  86. 86.

    sparrow

    @David Koch: Sorry to beat on this, but I’m trying to understand your point — if 47% of the country, last June, when Sanders was still relatively unknown were willing to elect a socialist, I think that’s actually not that bad. Are you saying that the minority voters, shown in that poll to heavily prefer increased government services, more spending on the poor, government reducing inequality, and a guaranteed job and standard of living, do not know that they are supporting socialist positions? I’m just not seeing how this is “stuff white people like”. This is in that poll! Read it: http://www.demos.org/publication/why-voting-matters-large-disparities-turnout-benefit-donor-class

  89. 89.

    Anoniminous

    @sparrow:

    Good questions. To answer them requires socio-political research and field work, e.g., polling, that nobody is going to fund. Without data one can only speculate, my feeling based on personal experience and anecdotal evidence is they are supporting Clinton because she is a “known product,” as it were. The most marginal segments of the US population are completely disengaged from politics; the marginal-yet-engaged don’t have the luxury of supporting an outsider and risk a GOP take-over of the Federal government. Clinton is seen as the safe choice.

  90. 90.

    Dmbeaster

    @srv:

    Weakness is not a virtue:

    At a Reno, Nevada, rally the GOP front-runner said professional football — like the United States — have both gone “soft.”

    “You used to see these tackles and it was incredible,” Trump said.

    “The whole game is all screwed up,” Trump added. “Football has become soft, like our country has become soft.”

    Well, concussions would explain Trump love.

  91. 91.

    eemom

    I say, WTF has happened to this blog? Our good Omnes has always been the voice of reason and still is….yet these altercations with Jean and Joan and a who knows who are increasingly frequent. Don’t think it’s Omnes’ fault. The rest of y’all aren’t listening to good sense. Better fix that before next November or we’re all fucked. kthxbai.

  94. 94.

    Anoniminous

    @eemom:

    The overwhelming probability is Clinton is going to win the nomination and the presidency. The PUMA foo-foo is something Democrats have to go through every four years or so to keep our juices flowing. I remember arguing with a Gephardt supporter that THE ONLY WAY for the Democratic Party to reclaim the Reagan Democrats was to nominate Gephardt instead of that idiot from Arkansas …. OTHERWISE & blah, blah, blah.

  95. 95.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m sorry. It started with a little joke about CFL and NFL fanbases in the Prez election, and then this new medication I’m on seems to have had the side effect of make0ing me more loquacious and less lucid at the same time!

    Looking back I don’t know exatly where I was going so I’ll just stop here.

    On the plus side, my infected sinuses are draining like a washer on final spin cycle.

    Cheers. I’m off to try and get some much-needed sleep.

  98. 98.

    eemom

    @Anoniminous:

    The overwhelming probability is Clinton is going to win the nomination and the presidency.

    From your keyboard to God’s ears. Clinton, Sanders, O’Malley — I honestly don’t care which it is, as long as it’s the D. Otherwise, we are FUBAR.

  109. 109.

    sharl

    I see Yutsano was on it…

    Some twitter commentary:

    Steve Silberman ‏@stevesilberman

    Bowie’s son confirms the death report. Rest in peace.

    Duncan Jones @ManMadeMoon

    Very sorry and sad to say it’s true. I’ll be offline for a while. Love to all.

    Steve Silberman ‏@stevesilberman

    Goodbye, David. You probably saved the lives of millions of gay/trans/odd/”extraterrestrial” kids. RIP.

  112. 112.

    Amir Khalid

    Apparently his family kept his illness a secret until now. Damn. Another giant of music gone. RIP David Bowie.

  113. 113.

    trollhattan

    @Yutsano:
    Noooo!!! Holy crap, it was his birthday two days ago. Very sad news, indeed. One of a kind artist and a very interesting one at that. Loved his collaborations with Eno.

    RIP, Ziggy.

  116. 116.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Amir Khalid: Apparently his family kept his illness a secret until now.

    I’m glad that worked for him and for them, he was spared the spotlight as he faded away. He earned it.

  117. 117.

    Brachiator

    @Punchy:

    It will be funny as shee’ot to watch all these GOP Senators be forced to “support” and expound on his virtues should Cruz win the nommy. Its well-known he’s popular as gonorrhea with his peers

    If Cruz is popular with voters, who gives a rat’s ass whether he would win a Senatorial popularity contest? And if by some evil spell Cruz was elected president, these same Senators would be clinging to Cruz’ coat tails hoping it would help their chances for re-election.

  118. 118.

    Elizabelle

    Front page of NYTimes now. Says “Legendary Musician.” That’s about right.

    Saw the Serious Moonlight Tour (Let’s Dance). It was wonderful.

    From NYT:

    The multitalented artist, whose last album, “Blackstar,” was released on Friday — on his birthday

    I’d seen some brief commentary on Blackstar, but nothing to indicate he’d been ill. Well kept secret.

    Last live performance in 2006, per NYT.

  119. 119.

    Brachiator

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    How many of the people voicing support for Trump will actually vote?

    The primaries haven’t begun yet. We will soon find out.

    Also, obviously, the Tea Party and other phenomena were attempts by the GOP to cultivate and direct ground level dissatisfaction. Trump is the beneficiary of this dissatisfaction. He is probably as surprised as the money men. But these people may be hot to vote for someone. It’s just a question of who can make the most of the opportunity.

  120. 120.

    David Koch

    @sparrow: it doesn’t mean 47% will vote for a socialist. It means only 47% would be open to voting for a socialist. For example, the poll says 92% would vote for a black person. Now no one would ever get 92% of the vote (Obama didn’t get 92% of the vote, he got 53% of the vote). Obviously what they mean is 92% would only consider voting for some one who is black. So it doesn’t mean that Sanders has 47% of the voted locked in and waiting for him.

    Another way to look at it is Obama had 92% of the country open to him and he got half of that group. I’m sure you realize how hard it was for Kennedy to break the religion barrier. I’m sure you know how hard it was for Obama to break the color barrier. Well a socialist starts 45 points behind a black or catholic person. A socialist would have half the chance Kennedy and Obama had of winning. It’s like swimming with lead weights attached to your feet.

    That said, I think his polices are fine and it’s important to move overton’s window to the left.

  121. 121.

    sharl

    Hey, Sarah Proud & Tall, if you’re lurking here, are you able & willing to put up a Bowie tribute post? You seem about the best front-pager for the job – or at least on the short list – and I think it’s mid-day over in Oz, so maybe you’re awake(?).

    (I need to reactivate the damn e-mail address I use to log on here, otherwise I could use the Contact drop-down thingie on the right…)

  122. 122.

    ruemara

    Bowie looked ill. I saw some shots of him arriving to see rehearsals of his new play. I was hoping my eyes were just being unkind to an old guy, but it seems they were seeing what I should have prepared myself to know was coming. This is terrible, because I’ve adored Bowie since I was a little kid. How is there a world without him creating in a corner of it?

  124. 124.

    amk

    @David Koch: Also, clintons have identified themselves with blacks for years. Heck, even obama had to show to them that he can win before they supported him. sanders, who had campaigned only from snow white constituency in his entire career and didn’t even identify himself as a dem until recently, can’t just walk in and expect to scoop their votes just because he is promising utopia for every one.

  127. 127.

    Arclite

    RIP. One of the greats. This song came out a few months after I was born, yet it was a staple of mine and my friends all throughout high school.

    Ground Control to Major Tom
    Your circuit’s dead, there’s something wrong
    Can you hear me, Major Tom?
    Can you hear me, Major Tom?
    Can you hear me, Major Tom?

  129. 129.

    David Koch

    @sparrow: I also want to add many good intentioned people constantly make the mistake that people vote on issues. There are too many low information voters in this country who don’t vote on issues. They work hard. After a commuting back and forth and spending 10 – 12 hours at a grueling job they just don’t have the time (if they have a family) or energy to spend hours every week analyzing the news. So they tune in during the fall debates and during conventions and they watch the commercials and that’s how they come to their decision. Not through a issues matrix.

    Ya know Dukakis ran on a great economic program, based on the Massachusetts miracle and he led Bush 55-38 with only 100 days to the election and then he lost by 8 points (a 25 point turnaround) not because of issues but because of a bunch of inflammatory commercials.

    Obama did so well not simply due to issues or his towering oratory but because he crushed his opponents with ruthless commercials and withering debates.

  132. 132.

    Anya

    A favorite of my parents and mine; his music was soundtrack of my childhood. This label is thrown a lot but he was a true artist. RIP Goblin King, my childhood obsession.

  133. 133.

    mclaren

    Nobody seems to grasp at a gut level how big this is. This is shaping up as a once-in-a-lifetime event. The 2016 election seems likely to represent a political and social watershed, something that transforms existing politics and society and breaks political parties.

    I lived through the 1968 election, and that was hugely disruptive — but likely not as disruptive as this one,
    since both political parties survived the 1968 debacle. When I was a kid I watched the entire country fall apart in 1968, and to me 1968 is still “the year of hell” when everything just came unglued.

    Assassinations, riots, a criminal elected president, political parties in chaos, political figures calling for parents to murder their children (Ronald Reagan: “If it takes a bloodbath [to end the antiwar demonstrations], let’s get it over with.”)…total chaos.

    Like that 1966 Star Trek episode “The Naked Time” but on a vast scale…

  136. 136.

    mclaren

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Actually Sanders gets low support among blacks because of paid astroturfers like Omnes who spew out the self-fulfilling-prophecy AKA lie that “Sanders is not electable.”

    As for everything in America not reducing to economics…hahahahahaha!

    American Revolution: economics.

    Civil War: economics.

    WW I: economics.

    WW II: economics.

    Civil rights riots: economics.

    Women’s rights: economics.

    DHS goons busting Occupy movement heads: economics.

    Endless unwinnable wars: military-industrial-complex economics.

    War on drugs: big pharma economics (they want to be only ones legally able to sell drugs)

    Racism: white people whose jobs are getting offshored scared shitless minorities will take their jobs — ECONOMICS.

    America is a nation of sadistic bully-worshiping religious fanatics, and the altar at which this shithole of a country worships is…MONEY.

    In shithole America, it’s economics all the way down.

  137. 137.

    mclaren

    @David Koch:

    There are too many low information voters in this country who don’t vote on issues.

    Case in point:

    I talked with one of my neighbors the other days. She says she’s not voting for Bernie Sanders. Why not?

    Because of the things the character who played him in a Saturday Night Live skit said.

    “You do realize that’s a skit, don’t you? A comedy sketch? Are you telling me you’re deciding who to vote for in the next presidential election based on a comedy sketch on television?”

    She became very defensive and left in a huff.

  138. 138.

    mclaren

    @opiejeanne:

    They really do not remember the 1950s.

    Ah, the good old threat of constant nuclear annihilation, the smell of DDT in the air, leaded car exhausts touching the air with that frisson of tetraethyl brain-damage..back when thalidomide was medicine, and real men were born with flippers instead of arms…!

    Those were the days.

  139. 139.

    mclaren

    @David Koch:

    Obama did so well not simply due to issues or his towering oratory but because he crushed his opponents with ruthless commercials and withering debates.

    Um…no.

    Obama did so well because the U.S. economy collapsed a couple of weeks before the presidential election, and people were running around in abject panic as though their hair was on fire.

    McCain/Palin were leading Obama/Biden in the polls until the world economy imploded.

    Five years ago, the collapse of investment banking firm Lehman Brothers ushered in the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression. What may not be as vividly remembered is how the economic disaster that occurred just weeks before Election Day changed the media’s campaign coverage, and perhaps the outcome, of the presidential race.

    Source: “How the Lehman Bros. crisis impacted the 2008 presidential race,” Pew Research Center, 13 September 2013.

  140. 140.

    Chris

    Rank-and-file conservatives, after decades of deferring to party elites, are trying to stage what is effectively a people’s coup by selecting a standard-bearer who is not the preferred candidate of wealthy donors and elected officials.

    It says a lot about how nakedly subservient to these party elites the GOP is, that a campaign by a group of voters to win more primaries than the other candidates, entirely within the rules, is being described as a “coup.”

  141. 141.

    Another Holocene Human

    @benw: What a lack of imagination. I’d hire Obama as my lawyer and PR firm. I don’t have the income to pay him what he’s worth but I’m confident he could change that.

  142. 142.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Wag:

    I have minimal problems with Bill Gates. He built something of value and has been generous with his donations , especially with regards to malaria vaccine research. I would focus on redistribution of the Koch brother’s money.

    I have all the problems with Bill Gates, but I thought extralegal seizures is what we were against. (Not to mention questionably legal seizures by police departments nationwide. Gross.)

  143. 143.

    Another Holocene Human

    @amk: I don’t think that’s quite fair. The Clintons showed out in 2008. But to be fair HRC has worked hard to try to shed the perceptions of 2008, hired a lot of Obama’s old people from what I understand, and did her best to get out in front of issues like police violence against people of color. Sanders has just bungled, bungled, bungled. I’m sorry, but somebody who at the end of the day circles back around to everything being an economic inequality issue just does not represent my interests as a liberal voter, and I suspect many African American voters feel the same way.

    That said, Sanders does have some outspoken young Black urban fans. But how is he doing in SC? Any improvement since the fall?

  144. 144.

    Thoughtful Today

    “47% will vote for a socialist” is actually a huge number when looked at through the percentage of the
    “Turnout of voting-age population (percent)”:

    2014 36.3%
    2012 53.6%
    2010 37.8%
    2008 56.8

    Any party that got a total of 47% of the total voting age population votes would be in a strong position to have a super-majority.

    Bernie’s leadership on his popular policies would _increase_ the Democratic Party’s voter turnout in 2018 and 2022.

  145. 145.

    amk

    @Another Holocene Human: Yes, there were SC moments went clintons panicked and went off the reservation for some time. But at the end of primaries, which both sides fought with their hearts, both the players decided to bury the hatchet. You cannot deny their appeal to blacks built over years despite the 2008 election rumbles.

  146. 146.

    Thoughtful Today

    Clinton’s racist dog whistles in 2008 became the single issue that shifted my support to Barack.

  149. 149.

    debbie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think McConnell’s stating his willingness to let the ISIS “situation” remain for an entire year is going to be more than a little problem for the GOP.

    In other incidents of ridiculousness, NPR interviewed the VW CEO at the Detroit Auto Show, who again apologized for letting people down and stated that it all came down to VW not understanding the questions they were being asked about emissions. The transcript’s not up yet, but here’s the audio. LIstening, I sensed a Monty Python sketch.

  151. 151.

    ET

    Karma really is a bitch and the Schadenfreude is keeping me warm. The GOP establishment spent years taking the votes and money from the evangelicals, bigots, and other assorted Republican “riff raff” and then mostly ignoring what they want (and how they wanted it) with a pat on the head and a condescending “we hear you, but we know better” now those people have decided they aren’t going to sit quietly. Frankenstein’s monster is awake and wrecking the lab, the castle, and now is working his way to the nearest town.

  152. 152.

    Soylent Green

    After Obama’s first win, we libs celebrated the imminent demise of the Republican Party. Here we go again.

    They can run a fascist vulgarian or a potted plant and will still get their 45% floor this November. They will keep the house, senate probably, and their dominance in the states. We will see another four to eight years of obstructionist bullshit and howler monkey media and rampant xenophobia.

    How does this ever change if Democratic voters refuse to vote in midterms?

  153. 153.

    The Gray Adder

    @Phil Perspective: How about “we’re better at governing than the other guys?” That ought to be enough, but sadly, too many people like to sit home and cry about their pet issues. Maybe after another eight years putting up with whichever mental defective the Republicans deign to give us to run the government into the ground, our memories will be sufficiently jogged.

  154. 154.

    J R in WV

    @lol chikinburd:

    That’s good, company will help and you can make decisions together. My brother and I sat at his kitchen table and went through things together, and it was calming at a stressful time to have someone to work with.

    Best wishes!

  155. 155.

    eyelessgame

    The quote that absolutely jumps out at me and makes me scream to the heavens in frustration:

    “The Republican Party has never done anything for the working man like me, even though we’ve voted Republican for years,” said Leo Martin, a 62-year-old machinist from Newport, N.H., who attended Mr. Trump’s Claremont rally.

    Why in the everlasting fuck did you vote Republican all those years then, you unbelievable moron?

  156. 156.

    mclaren

    @eyelessgame:

    Because working men like that white guy never needed (or thought they never needed) anything done for them. While blacks and women and other minorities were getting decimated by Republican offshoring of jobs and slashing of social service, the white males with solid jobs didn’t care.

    Now, however, the white males with solid jobs are discovering that their jobs are also getting offshored, and now that they suddenly need social services, the Republicans are cutting ’em.

    Classic case of “Fuck You, I’ve Got Mine.”

    And unlike the other so-called liberals on this thread (except for Thoughtful Today), I’ve got hard data to back up my claim. See the article “41% of the nation’s poor are white, nearly double the number of poor blacks.” Poverty wasn’t a problem in Reagan’s America…not until poverty started to hit white males. Then, suddenly, it became a big problem. Offshoring wasn’t an issue, not as long as it affected only poor people and minorities…but when it started to affect the middle class, then it became a big problem.

    (Incidentally, these data definitively disprove the fashionable cynicism about cardboard boxes and curtain rods and roasting sparrow so chic with the Balloon-Juice commentariat. Nothing is as popular on Balloon-Juice as juvenile nihilistic cynicism, because it gives the perfect excuse for sitting on your fat lazy asses and doing nothing.)
    Incidentally, we must remember to ignore Thoughtful Today’s comment. He’s using actually poll numbers — can’t have that. Data-driven discussions of reality are simply not appropriate for a liberal discussion, right?

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