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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: Hillary Clinton, Soldiering On

Open Thread: Hillary Clinton, Soldiering On

by Anne Laurie|  January 12, 20162:10 pm| 91 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Hillary Clinton 2016, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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Hillary Clinton (in response to @GlennThrush Q about her crowds): "I'm feeling good. I'm feeling really good." pic.twitter.com/aJzRG68ivM

— Liz Kreutz (@ABCLiz) January 11, 2016

Ahead of Iowa Black and Brown forum, Trayvon Martin's mother endorses Clinton https://t.co/8UZzq8TRR3

— Jennifer Epstein (@jeneps) January 11, 2016

NYMag reports “Gabby Giffords Endorses Hillary Clinton in Democratic Primary”:

Prominent gun-control advocate and mass-shooting survivor Gabby Giffords will support Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary, according to CBS News. The former Congresswoman’s endorsement, obtained by CNN, insists that Clinton is the only candidate for president “that has the determination and toughness to stand up to the corporate gun lobby.” The announcement follows a very public and emotional push by President Obama for more gun control measures over the past week, during which he announced a series of executive actions designed to shore up and expand existing gun laws — moves strongly supported by Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly. Obama has also declared that he will not campaign for any candidate who does not support “common-sense gun reform”…

Hillary Clinton statement accepting @GabbyGiffords & @ShuttleCDRKelly endorsement includes jabs at Sanders on guns pic.twitter.com/q4efJOJxK4

— Jennifer Epstein (@jeneps) January 10, 2016

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Reader Interactions

91Comments

  1. 1.

    Mike J

    January 12, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    Ahead of Iowa Black and Brown forum, Trayvon Martin’s mother endorses Clinton

    Who knew Trayvon Martin was just a tool of Wall Street?

  2. 2.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    At a campaign rally in Waterloo, Iowa, the former secretary of State called for a 4 percent surcharge on all annual income above $5 million. As opposed to a raise in the top marginal tax rate, Clinton’s surcharge would apply to any and all forms of income, regardless of its source. At present, capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than income — a policy that famously allows billionaire investor Warren Buffet to pay a lower rate than his secretary. According to Clinton’s aides, the surcharge would affect only one in every 10,000 taxpayers, while generating $150 billion in new revenue in its first ten years.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/clinton-touts-plan-to-soak-rich-silence-sanders.html

  3. 3.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    I had my local TV news station on (for the weather update) and they handwaved HRC away by saying Sanders was “neck and neck” with her, even though she’d picked up a handful of endorsements. They didn’t bother going into any detail about WHO was endorsing her; they made it sound like some boring backroom thing. They’re always very dismissive of her. Or else frowning with concern over every new email “revelation”.

  4. 4.

    Funky Claude

    January 12, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    Q. What did they call the notoriously stingy Mexican drug lord?
    A. El Cheapo

  5. 5.

    opiejeanne

    January 12, 2016 at 2:33 pm

    @Germy: My husband had CNN on downstairs this morning and they were yammering about their own poll showing Bernie way, way ahead of Hillary in Iowa.

  6. 6.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    @opiejeanne: When the MSM acts all enthusiastic about Sanders ahead of HRC, doesn’t it strike you that their enthusiasm is not for Sanders, but for the chance he’ll be defeated by a GOP candidate? That’s the impression I get from them.

  7. 7.

    Amir Khalid

    January 12, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    @opiejeanne:
    In Iowa. The HuffPo poll aggregate still shows her with a big national lead.

  8. 8.

    sparrow

    January 12, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    nervous, Anne Laurie? The BJ comentariat is pretty much the choir here. Iowa, on the other hand…

  9. 9.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 12, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    My friend Andrea Mitchell (I always seem to be in the car when she’s on, and what Mr Springsteen said of TV is often true of Sirius/XM– 57 channels and nothin’ on) was pretty much asking {ETA:) Nancy Pelosi why Hillary doesn’t just give up and go home. Later in my search for something that wasn’t Adele or the Thompson Twins, Thomas Roberts had on some nutcase congress critter accusing Obama of violating the Constitution. Turns out it was Vicki Hartzler, who totally deserves a respectful hearing on national media.

    “You know I have a lot of doubts about all [Obama’s birth certificate].…I don’t understand why he didn’t show that right away.” When asked to clarify her doubts during press availability after the event, Hartzler said: “I have doubts that it is really his real birth certificate, and I think a lot of Americans do, but they claim it is, so we are just going to go with that.”

  10. 10.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 2:59 pm

    …

    I respect Hillary’s efforts to address gun violence.

    Bernie’s Clintonian triangulation on that solitary issue may cost him.

    It’s a timely issue and pivots from Hillary’s horrible foreign policy disasters (the Iraq War crime currently metastasizing into the Daesh).

    It’s also a singularly strong instance of Hillary taking a firm hand against corporations.

    If you’re looking at the broader frame:

    Money matters.

  11. 11.

    sparrow

    January 12, 2016 at 3:05 pm

    @Thoughtful Today: It’s hard for me to believe anything Hillary does is sincere. She is addressing gun violence now because she sees it as strategic (it’s one of the only things on which she can run to the left of Bernie and not sound like a total Commie). It would be great if she follows up once in office (which I still think likely to occur), but I’m not holding my breath. She’s an opportunist through and through. This will be dropped as soon as she’s sworn in. We’ll also never hear about the tax hikes for the wealthy again either.

  12. 12.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 3:10 pm

    …

    Superdelegate endorsements are anti-democratic.

    Please show some respect for actual voters, Germy.

  13. 13.

    Amir Khalid

    January 12, 2016 at 3:13 pm

    @sparrow:

    It’s hard for me to believe anything Hillary does is sincere.

    This seems to be the common strain among the Bernista commenters I’ve encountered on this blog. But I’ve never been one to look to politicians for sincerity myself. There are no saints in politics. I have no reason to believe, as you seem to do, that Hillary means to abandon her campaign promises as soon as she is sworn in. I can’t imagine her doing that as President if she hopes to be sworn in again in 2021.

  14. 14.

    Applejinx

    January 12, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    That is totally fair and right. Bernie was always running to push Clinton to the left economically, win or lose. If Hillary’s going to lose, by all means let her push Bernie to the left on gun control, as it’s super important. I hope not to the extent that he loses Trump defectors in the general election and alienates voters, but it’s important and it’s disgraceful we can’t do better on the gun issue than we are. Let’s see Hillary really nail Bernie to the wall on that issue, it helps push the Overton window in a good way.

  15. 15.

    Dan

    January 12, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    Remember folks: winning both Iowa and New Hampshire is required for Bernie if he’s going to have a realistic path to the nomination. And it’ll still be an uphill battle. My understanding is the remaining early states look much, much better for Hillz.

  16. 16.

    jl

    January 12, 2016 at 3:22 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    HRC’s campaign is much better this cycle than in 2008. I have no idea whether she is sincere about this or that issue since I cannot read her mind. I think that she will at least try to do what she says she will do, and that is good enough for me. Just as it is good enough for me wrt Sanders.

    I think the real differences between her and Sanders on gun control are too minor for her to make it a critical campaign issue, and one that will sway people wavering between her and Sanders. I think foreign policy, student debt and education finance reform, financial reform better issues.

    But if HRC wants to make it hard on herself, who am I to say anything? I don’t think it will make much difference in the primary. If she starts doing things that will hurt her chances in the general election I will get worried.

    Edit: I also think her rather (IMHO) overly combative tone will do her better in the general than in the primary against Sanders. I heard a clip of her stump speech this morning, and thought she should save that tone for the GOPers.

  17. 17.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 3:25 pm

    Does anyone think Bloomberg will jump in?

  18. 18.

    pamelabrown53

    January 12, 2016 at 3:25 pm

    @Germy:
    On Christmas Eve I had a party and my partner’s family (oops wife, as of Dec. 15) were friggin’ elated at the prospect that Sanders could win the dem. nomination. Doesn’t mean they’re right but they were absolutely gleeful.

  19. 19.

    ThresherK

    January 12, 2016 at 3:28 pm

    @Germy: It’s a well-known fact that nothing boosts the MSM’s opinion of a Democrat as much as being in second place during the nomination struggle.

  20. 20.

    pamelabrown53

    January 12, 2016 at 3:28 pm

    @Thoughtful Today:
    Wouldn’t worry about the super delegates. Most of them will follow the results of the primary voters. At most, they would be the tie breakers.

  21. 21.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    George Zimmerman has called Obama a “baboon” and a “piece of garbage” so I wonder which GOP candidate he’s endorsing?

  22. 22.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    …

    What’s required is more delegate votes.

    And could someone do the math on how anti-democratic Superdelegates are?

    What are regular voters worth these days in the Democratic Party?

    Regular voters were worth 1/10,000th of a Superdelegate in 2008, are they worth more or less these days?

  23. 23.

    Betty Cracker

    January 12, 2016 at 3:34 pm

    @pamelabrown53:

    oops wife, as of Dec. 15

    Congratulations!

  24. 24.

    Ridnik Chrome

    January 12, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    @Germy: I hope he does. He would end up looking like a fool, and it would serve him right…

  25. 25.

    Cacti

    January 12, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    @Mike J:

    Who knew Trayvon Martin was just a tool of Wall Street?

    The “real allies of minorities” have since been savaging his mother on Facebook.

    Classy.

  26. 26.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    @ThresherK: They also love democrats who won’t run (biden)

  27. 27.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 3:39 pm

    @Ridnik Chrome: President Bloomberg. Can you imagine? The U.S. as a billionaire’s playground (even more so, anyway).

  28. 28.

    Cacti

    January 12, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    Other tools of the oligarchy as of this week:

    Planned Parenthood
    The Brady Campaign
    Gabrielle Giffords

  29. 29.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    Erm…

    Clinton supporters Mike J and Cacti are the only people I’ve read connect those two dots.

    Anyone else who’s done so should be ashamed.

  30. 30.

    Amir Khalid

    January 12, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    @Germy:
    As a Democrat? A Republican? An independent? And hasn’t he missed some critical deadlines already?

  31. 31.

    pamelabrown53

    January 12, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    @Betty Cracker:
    Thanks so much for the congrats. After 20 years, I find myself stuck on the word “partner”.”Old habits…etc.”.

  32. 32.

    jl

    January 12, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @Dan: I heard the pollster running the outfit that shows Sanders over HRC in Iowa saying how his poll really shows how Sanders has opened up a real lead. It’s just one poll, so I don’t understand how the poll shows any such thing. I suppose the guy feels like he has to flack for his polling organization, is all.

    If they are close, then after NH and IA are over we will know more about whether the supposed enthusiasm gap for HRC is a real thing. We will also know about Sanders ability to scale up his VT organization and GOTV.

    Sanders has probably solved his money problem in competing in the next round of early primaries in bigger states. Does he have the time and organization to overcome problems with lack of familiarity? I think HRC still has to be heavily favored.

    I guess corporate media might start treating it like a real race. Though what difference it makes, I dunno, since I even if they do, not much chance they will pay more attention to the issues, just more focus on cheezy horse race angles and trying to blow up spats between the campaigns into big news.

  33. 33.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 3:45 pm

    Democratically elected support from:

    National Nurses United

    MoveOn.org

    And possibly a caucus near you!-)

  34. 34.

    Germy

    January 12, 2016 at 3:46 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    And hasn’t he missed some critical deadlines already?

    Bloomberg has been both a democrat and a republican. Maybe he’ll start a third party: the billionaire party. He can write checks covering any missed deadlines.

  35. 35.

    Matt McIrvin

    January 12, 2016 at 3:48 pm

    They’re really close in Iowa in the Huffington Post average (and Sanders is still ahead of Clinton by a nose in NH).

    Sanders still seems to be gaining in IA. He could take it. He’s still a considerable way behind Clinton nationally.

    However, beware of anyone touting a single poll when there are a lot of them available. Cherry-picking with an agenda in mind is rampant.

  36. 36.

    pamelabrown53

    January 12, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    @Cacti:

    While Hillz is racking up serious endorsements (loved the PP endorsement for recognizing her leadership on women’s health issues), I’m also seeing a zeitgeist that is anti-establishment on both ends of the political spectrum. Still, think Hillz will win though it might take longer. IMO, it’s all good…as long as we can keep our rancor in check.

  37. 37.

    Betty Cracker

    January 12, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    @jl:

    I guess corporate media might start treating it like a real race. Though what difference it makes, I dunno, since I even if they do, not much chance they will pay more attention to the issues, just more focus on cheezy horse race angles and trying to blow up spats between the campaigns into big news.

    Sad but true. I don’t think it would be a bad thing to have a competitive primary. It wasn’t a detriment when Clinton and Obama were duking it out in 2008 — seems like it raised Democratic enthusiasm considerably. The coverage back then was all horse race, but in a way, that was understandable; there was very little difference between Clinton and Obama policy-wise in 2008.

  38. 38.

    jl

    January 12, 2016 at 3:51 pm

    @jl: And health care reform. Sanders still does not have a detailed health care reform proposal out, AFAIK. If anyone one knows where to find it, let me know. I don’t see anything on his website. As a Sanders mega-donor, that concerns me. If HRC pointed that out, and asked whether Sanders’ push for single payer will produce something or just mess up PPACA, I think that would have more impact. Maybe would get Sanders’ ass into gear in producing one. He should have a detailed plan because it is one of his signature issues.

    There is also some Sanders Campaign website just opened up, and I cannot tell from either that or the main Sanders site how the two are connected. If they are not, the Sanders campaign should be on top of that and get out some information on what is going on, seems to me. I can’t find any info on main Sanders site. If anyone knows, let me know please.

  39. 39.

    jl

    January 12, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Hey BC, I have an idea. Get up a live stream of your cranky chickens and add some random computer generated primary pundit talk. You might steal some market share and make a few bucks. It would work great if you could get them to come up and glare into the camera real close. Put the cam next to the feeder.

  40. 40.

    Ridnik Chrome

    January 12, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    @Germy: I’m sure he can, just like he was able to take care of that whole term-limit thing when he was mayor…

  41. 41.

    Emerald

    January 12, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    I’m not so sure Sanders is going to pull out a win in New Hampshire. Right now it looks as though he will, but apparently his lead there is strongly confined to Independents.

    Bernie’s problem is that most of the Indies in New Hampshire this year appear to be focusing on the Republican race. Again.

    Both Bradley and Obama were ahead in the NH polls before they lost. Like Bernie, their support came from Independents. So if those Indies chose to vote in the other primary as they did in 2000 and in 2008, that’s going to hurt Bernie.

    Hillary is way ahead with registered Democrats in New Hampshire. Just sayin.’

  42. 42.

    Amir Khalid

    January 12, 2016 at 4:00 pm

    @Ridnik Chrome:
    How did he bully his way into running for and winning a third term, anyway? I wouldn’t have thought that was possible.

  43. 43.

    jl

    January 12, 2016 at 4:02 pm

    I guess I am cynical or something, but even if I have been supporting Sanders, I don’t have particular loyalty to him, and if I switch to sending HRC money and support, will be the same. I wish these people well in their personal lives, but in public life, they are civic tools to get stuff done. Nothing more and nothing less.

    That is especially true this year, when the GOP alternative risks catastrophe. I have one and only one bottom line for HRC and Sanders: are they making themselves useful for a big (Edit: in fact, an amazing yoooge terrific and classy) Democratic win in November 2016.

    Edit: I also with the GOPers well in their private lives, even more so than the Democrats. I fervently wish that some amazing opportunity opens up for each and every one of them as private citizens that they all drop out of politics, loybbing, thinktaking, public speaking, forever.

  44. 44.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 12, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    @Amir Khalid: In New York City there is only one religion, and only one political party: money.

  45. 45.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 4:05 pm

    National Nurses United voted Democratically in their endorsement of Bernie.

    I don’t want to diminish Planned Parenthood’s support. The historian that decided Planned Parenthood would support Hillary understands the historical impact a woman can make.

    But please respect the Nurses, who are disproportionately women, making informed democratic choices about who to support for President.

  46. 46.

    gene108

    January 12, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    @Thoughtful Today:

    It’s a timely issue and pivots from Hillary’s horrible foreign policy disasters (the Iraq War crime currently metastasizing into the Daesh).

    To be fair to the Congress, at the time, Bush & Co. did not say they wanted a declaration of war with Saddam and boots would be on the ground the second the bill passed Congress.

    Bush & Co. said they wanted AUMF as a tool to force Saddam to let inspectors in and if Saddam did not do this, there would be war.

    Saddam let the inspectors in.

    This would’ve been a huge policy win for the neo-cons, but they were just jonesin’ for war so bad they went ahead with it anyway.

    @sparrow:

    It’s hard for me to believe anything Hillary does is sincere. She is addressing gun violence now because she sees it as strategic (it’s one of the only things on which she can run to the left of Bernie and not sound like a total Commie). It would be great if she follows up once in office (which I still think likely to occur), but I’m not holding my breath.

    Hillary wanted reauthorize the Assault Weapons Ban in 2008. Obama did not want to change the status quo at the time.

    Conservative media are distorting an answer given by Hillary Clinton during a debate in the 2008 Democratic primary to falsely claim that Clinton generally opposed the federal regulation of firearms during the 2008 race, but in a reversal now, favors such federal laws. In fact, in the 2008 debate answer cited by conservative media, Clinton was talking about one specific policy — whether states should require or not require the registration of handguns — and her current support for federal laws to improve background checks on gun sales and ban assault weapons are consistent with her campaign positions in 2008. Clinton’s recent call to repeal the federal law that grants civil immunity to the gun industry is also consistent with her vote against the law as a U.S. Senator in 2005.

    Link

    She’s been for gun control, when other candidates wanted to skirt the issue.

    Maybe you just do not like the Clintons, I don’t know.

    But on gun control Hillary’s been pretty consistent.

  47. 47.

    Brachiator

    January 12, 2016 at 4:09 pm

    @sparrow:

    It’s hard for me to believe anything Hillary does is sincere. She is addressing gun violence now because she sees it as strategic

    Tell ya what. Let’s all be sure to vote for her, make sure she gets into the Oval Office. Then, we will absolutely be able to see whether she goes back on any promises.

    Dan:

    Remember folks: winning both Iowa and New Hampshire is required for Bernie if he’s going to have a realistic path to the nomination.

    Apart from providing break room conversation topics, I don’t think either of these two early primaries are all that important. It will be more worrisome if Sanders loses, but it will not doom his chances.

  48. 48.

    gwangung

    January 12, 2016 at 4:10 pm

    @Thoughtful Today: To be honest, this is a good thing. Shows some solid mainstream support for Sanders. And the way this campaign shapes up, these endorsements will, for the most part, still go to the winner—few sore losers in this race.

  49. 49.

    David Koch

    January 12, 2016 at 4:14 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    there was very little difference between Clinton and Obama policy-wise in 2008.

    except the part where Obama wanted to normalize relations with Cuba and Hillary denounced him, except for the part where Obama said he would go to Pakistan to get bin Laden and Hillary said it was an insult to our ally Musharraf, except for the part where Obama said he wanted to talk to Iran and Hillary said that’s “naive”, except for the part where Hillary threaten a nuclear strike on Iran and Obama denounced her, except for the part where she used race baiting to whip up white resentment and he did not.

  50. 50.

    gene108

    January 12, 2016 at 4:20 pm

    @David Koch:

    except for the part where Obama said he would go to Pakistan to get bin Laden and Hillary said it was an insult to our ally Musharraf

    And this is wrong how?

    Offing bin Laden did piss off Pakistan. People, who helped us hunt Osama down, have faced retaliation from the Pakistani government.

    I’m glad Osama’s dead, but this did not do us any favors with Pakistan and is a big deal for Pakistan.

  51. 51.

    WaterGirl

    January 12, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    @David Koch: Thank you I have never understood how people didn’t think there was a big difference. Did you leave out the part about support for the Iraq war/

  52. 52.

    Bartholomew

    January 12, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    Economic issues are probably a bigger deal the choir suspects.

    “… Look at which candidate is doing better against Donald Trump. Look at the last national poll and you find that Bernie Sanders is beating Donald Trump by 13 points, Hillary Clinton by seven points.”

    Sanders has been making that argument at almost every Iowa stop this weekend, a head-turning addition to his extremely consistent stump speech. Frustrated by media coverage that has covered Donald Trump’s insurgent campaign far more closely than Sanders’s — by one calculation, 23 times more closely — the candidate and his supporters are starting to ask why his strong poll numbers aren’t news.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/09/as-clinton-says-only-she-can-win-sanders-points-to-the-polls/

  53. 53.

    Heliopause

    January 12, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    Take this for whatever it’s worth; three weeks in advance of the 2008 Iowa caucus the polls were reasonably close to predicting the relative standing of the candidates in the actual caucus. Edwards had a small surge relative to Clinton but otherwise not much change, relatively speaking.

  54. 54.

    dww44

    January 12, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    @Germy: Re the email revelation thing, I’ve got an email from a conservative relative with a Youtube video of Bob Woodward expounding on HRC’s emails. This is not one’s usually raging right wing relative. He is frequently thoughtful. I need to rebut/reply to this from a couple of days ago, but haven’t had the time to research. Can anyone provide some insight and/or links?

    The purpose of watching this brief video is Bob Woodward’s simple and accurate explanation of how you subvert potential discovery. I don’t expect anyone to change their mind about HRC.

    In my job I deal with email discovery from the technology side as it is my job to provide the lawyers with the emails. I’ve seen people trying to hide their emails by doing the types of things Bob talks about. I can tell you it does not work. The only way to hide email is to not turn it over.

    https://youtu.be/o2ivPLpLCgs?t=29s

    I am just so tired of this email issue with HRC and wish to be able to satisfy myself that there is no there thee?

  55. 55.

    Bobby Thomson

    January 12, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @Mike J: #feelthegunshotwound

  56. 56.

    Brachiator

    January 12, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @gene108:

    Offing bin Laden did piss off Pakistan. People, who helped us hunt Osama down, have faced retaliation from the Pakistani government.

    Phuk ’em. Unfortunately, Pakistan has never been a reliable ally. Also, the schism between the government, the military and the intelligence services adds to their lack of reliability. This probably also kept Pakistan from actually helping us find bin Laden, and making sure that he would be delivered to US authorities.

    We were damned if we did anything, damned if we “allowed” Pakistan to take the lead in searching for bin Laden.

    That said, I do hope that we took steps to help those who provided assistance in capturing bin Laden.

  57. 57.

    Ridnik Chrome

    January 12, 2016 at 4:33 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Yep. But the City Council’s deal with Bloomberg is also the main reason why Bill De Blasio is mayor now instead of Christine Quinn…

  58. 58.

    Anoniminous

    January 12, 2016 at 4:37 pm

    @Germy:

    The Infotainment Mediums are desperate to turn the conversation away from the GOP car wreck.

  59. 59.

    sparrow

    January 12, 2016 at 4:43 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Actually, I do really believe Bernie would follow through, to the extent possible, on his campaign promises. I don’t think your personally low expectations are a great reason to vote for Hillary.

  60. 60.

    pamelabrown53

    January 12, 2016 at 4:45 pm

    @Thoughtful Today:
    Who the hell is disrespecting the Nurses? The major point (IMO) pertains more to the sustained siege of Planned Parenthood. Hillary has shown decades of leadership. She earned their endorsement. It saddened me greatly to read way too many “liberal” commenters vowing to dump their support of PP because they endorsed Hillary.

    The Postal Workers endorsed Bernie; I thought he deserved the endorsement because he showed leadership. It wouldn’t occur to me to withdraw my support of the USPS because they endorsed Bernie.

  61. 61.

    David Koch

    January 12, 2016 at 4:47 pm

    @gene108: oh please. Pak ISI has been working hand and glove with Al Qaeda, the taliban, the Haqqani, while hiding their biggest asset bin Laden. As to bin laden, he was still engaged in active planning of terror activities, right up to the end.

    but that’s besides the point. the question was where there any big policy differences btwn the candidates.

  62. 62.

    jl

    January 12, 2016 at 4:50 pm

    @Germy: I’ve been following corporate media interviews with both of them, and their treatment of both infuriates me.

    I do not follow their interviews with GOPers closely at all, I have my health to think about. My impressions from the interviews:

    Dems: try to avoid boring issues, except when cannot be avoided, make sure to trot out same tired centrist bothsidesdoit attitude, from BS WaPo point of view. Try to gin up crisis and disarray from campaign spats. Figure out some tired repetitive and already chewed over gotchas for HRC and Sanders. I see interviews that are almost identical, including the infuriating laziness, ignorance and cynicism of the interviewers. It is almost like they all have the same script.

    GOPers: breathless excitement and drama. But then, as Shakespeare wrote in King Lear (paraphrase since no time to look up): filths savor only their own.

  63. 63.

    David Koch

    January 12, 2016 at 4:57 pm

    President Sanders will be giving the SOTU address approximately a year from today – taking the first steps to dismantle and crush capitalism and tossing it on the trash heap of history.

    Viva la revolución!

  64. 64.

    Roger Moore

    January 12, 2016 at 5:02 pm

    @sparrow:

    Actually, I do really believe Bernie would follow through, to the extent possible, on his campaign promises.

    And I think Hillary would try to follow through on her campaign promises. To me, a big question is who would better be able to follow through, and I have to give the advantage to Hillary in that department.

  65. 65.

    Brachiator

    January 12, 2016 at 5:09 pm

    @David Koch:

    President Sanders will be giving the SOTU address approximately a year from today – taking the first steps to dismantle and crush capitalism and tossing it on the trash heap of history.

    And then someone will gently nudge him, and he will look a little sheepish for having fallen asleep and dreaming while President Clinton was delivering her SOTU address.

  66. 66.

    Anoniminous

    January 12, 2016 at 5:10 pm

    My opinion, supported by careful inspection of the flight of birds and close examination of a sheep’s liver, is if Sanders is elected President we’ll also see a Dem take-over of the House and Senate. Somewhat more seriously, electing Sanders would be a total shift in US politics, the equivalent of electing FDR in 1932.

  67. 67.

    Bobby Thomson

    January 12, 2016 at 5:14 pm

    @gene108: fwiw, Clinton flip flopped on that and advised the president to go for it. Secretary Clinton was a lot better than candidate Clinton.

  68. 68.

    Cacti

    January 12, 2016 at 5:17 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    And I think Hillary would try to follow through on her campaign promises. To me, a big question is who would better be able to follow through, and I have to give the advantage to Hillary in that department.

    To that end, the biggest source of my skepticism that Sanders could enact any of the legislation he’s advocating is the fact that not one single member of the Dem Senate Caucus has endorsed him. These are his erstwhile friends and colleagues.

  69. 69.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    …

    I strongly support Planned Parenthood’s mission of providing health care.

    Bernie’s health care aspirations are better for that institution’s mission.

    Planned Parenthood can be a flag ship model for providing Universal Healthcare.

    Win! Win! Win!

  70. 70.

    VFX Lurker

    January 12, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    @Thoughtful Today:

    The Hyde Amendment would prevent Bernie’s single-payer system from giving women certain health services.

    We need Planned Parenthood.

  71. 71.

    Betty Cracker

    January 12, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    @David Koch: There were SOME differences between the two, and you’ve pointed them out. But from a big picture perspective, they weren’t that far apart. Still aren’t.

  72. 72.

    Roger Moore

    January 12, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    @VFX Lurker:

    The Hyde Amendment would prevent Bernie’s single-payer system from giving women certain health services.

    The Hyde Amendment is a law like any other. If I’m going to ask for a pony Congress really wants to pass single payer, I can ask for one that talks they can overturn the Hyde Amendment while doing it.

  73. 73.

    chopper

    January 12, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    @Thoughtful Today:

    Superdelegate endorsements are anti-democratic.

    so are caucuses, but if sanders wins iowa i doubt you’ll be making that point.

  74. 74.

    sparrow

    January 12, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    @Cacti: That can hardly mean they wouldn’t work with him. It could mean they assumed Hillary would be the nominee, and didn’t want to face up to having endorsed her rival later when she became president.

  75. 75.

    sparrow

    January 12, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    @chopper: I would. The primary should be a straight nationwide vote, on the same day, period.

  76. 76.

    ellie

    January 12, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    Bernie Sanders will not win in a general election. He comes across as a cranky old man. All the MSM has to do it harp on the scary socialist 24/7 and it is landslide for whatever monster the GOP puts up.

  77. 77.

    Cacti

    January 12, 2016 at 6:28 pm

    @sparrow:

    That can hardly mean they wouldn’t work with him. It could mean they assumed Hillary would be the nominee, and didn’t want to face up to having endorsed her rival later when she became president.

    If the only consistent feature in the total lack of endorsements from his immediate colleagues is Bernie, I’m somewhat skeptical that the problem is everyone else.

  78. 78.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 6:39 pm

    …

    Bernie beats Trump by wider margins than Hillary.

    Consistently.

    Those wide margins are serious coattails.

  79. 79.

    David Koch

    January 12, 2016 at 6:42 pm

    @ellie: How can ending and burying capitalism be scary? Especially when replacing it with socialism will lead to an egalitarian worker’s paradise.

  80. 80.

    sparrow

    January 12, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    @Cacti: No, I think the problem is Hillary.

  81. 81.

    Cacti

    January 12, 2016 at 7:13 pm

    @Thoughtful Today:

    Bernie beats Trump by wider margins than Hillary.

    Consistently.

    Those wide margins are serious coattails.

    Yeah, about those polls showing Bernie doing so swell in hypothetical general election matchups…

    You know that Bernie’s never had any serious negative attention from the GOP or national media in his public career, right?

    About how many seconds after he secured the nom do you think it would take for Koch/Adelson wing of the GOP to roll out the TV ads of “Bernie Sanders, Mayor of Burlington, used to keep a Soviet Union flag on his office wall” or a montage of Bernie, Chairman Mao, and Joseph Stalin, on endless loop.

  82. 82.

    Irony Abounds

    January 12, 2016 at 7:26 pm

    I hoping that Hillary and Bernie battle to a stalemate so that the convention turns to Delaware’s favorite son, Joe Biden (remember when states used to do the favorite son routine – oh guess I’m admitting I’m older than I want to be).

  83. 83.

    Thoughtful Today

    January 12, 2016 at 7:35 pm

    ^
    …

    ^ Clinton supporter Cacti reaching out to Bernie voters, everyone.

    By writing Koch ads.

    Koch’s don’t need Clinton supporters help, they’re doing fine:

    “New book: Father of politically active Koch brothers built a refinery for the Nazis.”

    A forthcoming book by New Yorker writer Jane Mayer says that the father of the politically influential Koch Brothers helped build a refinery in Germany in the 1930s that was important to the Nazi war effort.

    Mayer’s book, “Dark Money,” examines the role played by a handful of super-rich families in the evolution of the political right in the United States, from the Gilded Age of the last century to the Tea Party today. She describes the donor network assembled by the Kochs, which has committed to spend hundreds of millions this election year, as returning the country to an era when the super rich got their way by underwriting federal office-holders and their election campaigns. The recent spike in largely secret spending, she maintains, has had a profound effect on state and local as well as national politics, and helps explain the lack of progress in the United States in addressing problems such as global warming and income inequality.

    Koch daddy reportedly sold Stalin useful tech as well.

  84. 84.

    David Koch

    January 12, 2016 at 7:53 pm

    @Cacti: What wrong with having a communist flag on your office wall?

  85. 85.

    mclaren

    January 12, 2016 at 8:11 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    But I’ve never been one to look to politicians for sincerity myself. There are no saints in politics.

    Bingo. All pols lie. These are politicians we’re talking about — people with a law degree who weren’t smart enough or hard-working enough to make the big bucks doing corporate law or criminal litigation.

    Besides, even people with the best intentions find themselves trapped by circumstances sometimes so that they can’t fulfill their promises. That happens. Harry Truman tried to carry through on FDR’s “four freedoms” by getting a nationalized single-payer health care system through congress, and the AMA bastards ground Truman into hamburger. JFK wanted and tried to push desegregation and medicare, but only LBJ was able to ram through the Civil Rights and medicare bills, and then only because he capitalized on JFK’s tragic death and the mood of the country in 1964. Barack Obama wanted to do lots of things and then got trapped by circumstances in Iraq and Afghanistan, a bunch of traitrorous generals (Petraeus and McChrystal) who leaked info about the war to congress to put Obama in an untenable position and then refused Obama’s direct order to draw up plans for troop drawdowns, instead giving Obama plans for troop surges against his explicit orders.

    Jimmy Carter is probably the most extreme example of a guy with great policies who was totally sabotaged by the Beltway insiders. Carter energy plan would’ve given us energy independence long ago, but the congresswhores wrecked it. Carter’s efforts to reduce the size of the U.S. military were sabotaged by the military-industrial complex. Carter’s efforts to expose grotesque criminality and sedition by the CIA and the rest of the U.S. intelligence community were savagely cut off, and he was punished brutally by the press and the beltway insiders for all these crimes against the inside-the-beltway consensus.

    So, yeah, Hillary is insincere. She probably won’t enact 1/10 of the progressive policies she’s talking about. But, hey! At least she’s talking about progressive policies. The asshole Republicans are talking about returning us to the Confederacy. Hillary may be insincere, but at least she’s enough of a liberal not to want to roll back the New Deal and outlaw unions and turn the clock back in America to 1858.

  86. 86.

    mclaren

    January 12, 2016 at 8:13 pm

    @Cacti:

    You know that Bernie’s never had any serious negative attention from the GOP…

    This is the same Bernie Sanders whom Faux News calls a “communist” on a regular basis?

    While Trump repeatedly calls Sanders a `maniac’ and `a communist’?

    What planet are you living on?

  87. 87.

    mclaren

    January 12, 2016 at 8:19 pm

    @Irony Abounds:

    I hoping that Hillary and Bernie battle to a stalemate so that the convention turns to Delaware’s favorite son, Joe Biden…

    Because you love Biden’s claim that `We need a D-Day in the war on drugs.” And you adore Biden’s introduction of the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, containing all the unconstitutional provisions of the USA Patriot Act. And you’re thrilled with asset forfeiture — the original law for which Biden wrote and personally rammed through congress. And you were delighted with the Iraq War, which Biden relentlessly supported for 4 long years. And you’re delighted by the gross corruption Joe Biden is mired in, with his son sitting on a Ukraianian gas & oil company while Biden was VP.

    Yeah, great candidate. I guess Boss Tweed wasn’t available…

  88. 88.

    Cacti

    January 12, 2016 at 8:29 pm

    @mclaren:

    This is the same Bernie Sanders whom Faux News calls a “communist” on a regular basis?

    While Trump repeatedly calls Sanders a `maniac’ and `a communist’?

    What planet are you living on?

    Wow, he’s been called a few names?

    He’s really been through the fire then. ;-)

  89. 89.

    David Koch

    January 12, 2016 at 9:44 pm

    I don’t communism as a drawback today.

    capitalism is on it’s death bed, and come January 20th 2017, President Sanders is pulling the plug

  90. 90.

    Amir Khalid

    January 13, 2016 at 12:35 am

    @mclaren:
    No, I don’t mean to say that only the corruptible go into politics. I mean that politics demands compromises. How many can one make, and still claim sainthood?

  91. 91.

    AxelFoley

    January 13, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    @Applejinx:

    I hope not to the extent that he loses Trump defectors in the general election

    Why does anyone on the left want Trump defectors? Seriously, why do some on the left still try to court racist assholes?

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