*
Have at it!
* A classic Berke Breathed Bloom County election strip. Found here.
CNN streaming it here.
Guardian liveblogging here.
by Adam L Silverman| 215 Comments
This post is in: Domestic Politics, Open Threads, Politics
*
Have at it!
* A classic Berke Breathed Bloom County election strip. Found here.
CNN streaming it here.
Guardian liveblogging here.
Comments are closed.
Baud
I didn’t realize that was tonight.
dmsilev
Important safety tip: Don Lemon is running the post-town-hall show. Click away as soon as the thing ends.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Your invitation was misplaced perhaps?
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: The post town hall thread will come with a Don Lemon trigger warning. As in warning: Don Lemon is a trigger.
Elizabelle
Is this thing streaming live somewhere? I gots no cable and no TV.
Good to see the Democrats out before Iowa.
dmsilev
@Elizabelle: Because CNN is run by assholes, the stream is apparently only accessible by people with cable subscriptions.
Sorry, guess you’re stuck with our play-by-play.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
DWS strikes again.
dmsilev
First question to Bernie Sanders: “Define what you mean by Democratic Socialism”.
Lord Baldrick
@Elizabelle: Try livenewschat dot eu.
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: Actually that’s not bad. Gives him a chance to actually define it his way, rather than a la Luntz.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
All D debates should be town halls.
Anne Laurie
@dmsilev:
I think they ‘unlocked’ this townhall — I’m streaming it right now, and we’ve never been cable subscribers!
Eric S.
@Baud: your invite was lost in the mail.
dmsilev
@Adam L Silverman: It was a fair question, and I think he answered it well (focusing on income inequality, and having the government pay for things like college tuition to help level the gaps).
Germy
Will the republicans be doing any townhall debates?
Mike J
@dmsilev: That’s the best question he could hope for. IF you want to convince people it’s not scary, you need for them to hear what you mean.
Baud
@Germy:
Yes, but they call them fundraisers.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Then, sui generis by definition, they wouldn’t be debates. They’d be town halls.
JPL
@Elizabelle: CNN International.. link
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@dmsilev: Not only that, but you have to log-in to your account at your cable provider to see more than 10 minutes of it. Some of us have cable but never use our cable web accounts.
Grrr.
Cheers,
Scott.
Punchy
Eh….cant be bothered. Got a crossword puzzle to attack.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: Just turned it on. Didnt realize they were on one at a time.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: I figured you weren’t watching/watching yet. Just being a smartass.
Baud
Baud says, “If people want to criticize me, go to hell.”
dmsilev
@Baud: That’s how they get around the DNC’s “debate” rules. MSNBC did a similar town hall a couple of months ago.
EriktheRed
Glad to see Bern didn’t take the bait on that loaded “era of big government” question?
Baud
“How will you end gridlock?”
“By not being black.”
JPL
I like Bernie but gotta say, there is no way repubs will work with him.
Baud
You goddamn lazy, Americans. Stand up, I say. Stand up!
Baud
You lie, citizen!
dmsilev
@JPL: Yeah. I hope he doesn’t really believe that.
Cacti
@Baud:
And revolution fairy dust.
Baud
@dmsilev:
It’s a universal answer that no one believes.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: They’re not going to work with anyone. Remember what several said in 2012, most notable Grover Norquist, about Romney? That all they needed was a President with a Republican party affiliation to sign whatever legislation a Republican majority Congress put in front of him. All they want is compliance. If they can’t get that then its obstruction.
Baud
Stupid moderators.
Mike J
@Punchy:
Today is Monday. Shouldn’t take longer than three or four minutes.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Adam L Silverman: Yup. And that’s why they don’t want Trump or Cruz. They’re not afraid of the Giants in the GOP in Congress.
Cheers,
Scott.
David *Rafael* Koch
hellva matching going on right now
Serena vs Sharapova in Qrt Finals of Aussie Open on ESPN 2
Baud
Reddit is making fun of Phil Simms. This is my favorite Simms’ quote.
Adam L Silverman
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Actually I’ve seen several reports that the reason the establishment, whatever that is this week, is embracing/coming around to Trump is that they think he’s a cypher and they’ll be able to provide the actual policies and strategies and then he’ll just sign them. I think that’s delusional, but what do I know?
SiubhanDuinne
CNN cut me off after 10 minutes, so I guess I’ll just follow the Grauniad‘s liveblog.
dmsilev
@Adam L Silverman: I’m going to Godwinate the thread: That’s exactly how the German conservative political establishment felt about Hitler.
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: I don’t think that’s technically a Godwin violation, but whatever.
PhoenixRising
@Adam L Silverman: Nope, that’s textbook Godwin, but it happens to also be true.
dmsilev
@Adam L Silverman: Unfortunately, I think I am guilty of validating the letter of the law: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman:
Well, Roy Rogers would recognize Lemon as Trigger if Trigger were walking away from Rogers
Baud
I’m sad to say that the town hall questions so far aren’t all that all that different.
Elizabelle
@JPL: thank you. The link works well; listening now.
@SiubhanDuinne: try JPL’s link. It’s like newslink.eu or something like that. And no commercials!
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: @dmsilev: I know what the letter says, but in this case decent historical example should override in spirit.
hilts
@dmsilev:
I’ll take Don Lemon over Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddow.
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t think you can violate Godwin’s Law. That would be like violating The Law of Gravity. Godwin’s just states that the longer a discussion lasts the great the probability that Hitler and the Nazis will be introduced. Hence, you often see comments like “fastest Godwin ever.” That’s my understanding of it anyway.
JPL
@Elizabelle: If it cuts off, refresh. I think what happens is that they expect you to link to an ad. That extends the time.
This Bernie impresses me.
amk
@Baud: well, now you know how MOM feels.
Elizabelle
@JPL: Yeah. I am liking what I hear of Bernie.
Baud
@JPL: How is he different from other Bernies?
Adam L Silverman
@amk: Excellent! Well played, well played indeed!
Baud
I give the answer an 8.5.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Adam L Silverman: I agree that it’s delusional.
The “establishment” GOP people seem to me to be in two camps at the moment:
1) Hoping against hope that Trump implodes and Kasich or someone similar manages to successfully challenge Cruz. But having no plan to actually make that happen because they’re too afraid of the Teabaggers, still. Tut-tutting in the background, “Oh it’s so horrible what Donald has done to my party!!”
2) Making happy noises about Trump and how grand he his while recognizing that he would be a disaster as a candidate (glass jaw, a crybaby, a huge history that is contra to the Teabagger orthodoxy, etc.). They’re attempting to get in front of the mob that is going elsewhere, to prove they’re still relevant. “Hey, I worked my heart out for Trump! It’s not my fault he lost!! Please don’t primary me!!!”
If either Trump or Cruz wins, they’re going to keep being the nasty people they are. The brave, brave GOP in Congress will whimper and do whatever T or C want on most things. It would be pathetic, and dangerous.
Fortunately, I can’t see that future happening because HRC will wipe the floor with them. The question is, how big will her coattails be.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@Baud: Passion.. Something you could learn.
Baud
@JPL:
You think I’m not passionate?
JPL
@Elizabelle: Bookmark the page because they have different announcers during the day, and cover the worldwide news. Shocking I know.
schrodinger's cat
Don Lemon sounds like a fictional character. The only other Lemon is I know is Hercule Poirot’s secretary. Ms. Lemon who was the epitome of efficiency.
Schlemazel
@Baud:
Its like sincerity, if you don’t have it fake it.
Baud
@Schlemazel:
I’ll have to start commenting in ALLCAPS.
Schlemazel
@schrodinger’s cat:
Would Lemony Snicket count?
p.a.
@dmsilev: Just finished Richard J. Evans’ Third Reich trilogy. I hesitate to used the word ‘excellent’ given the subject matter, but it is deeply researched and informative.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: don’t forget bold and italics. And maybe some animated emoji too.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@JPL: Thanks!
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
MOM is on last? Who’s gonna stay up for that?
Betty Cracker
I thought Bernie did pretty well.
JPL
@Baud: Let me just say, I haven’t seen a feel the Baud hashtag. At least not spelled that way.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: I hear the new commenting system will give us those. And the blink tag.
Schlemazel
@Baud:
Well, yelling works for the Dumpster Fire so maybe all caps is the way to go
Cacti
Why does Bernie continue to insist that the repeal of Glass-Steagall was a cause of the subprime crisis?
The $5 trillion of worthless commercial paper originated overwhelmingly with non-bank financial institutions, aka the “shadow banking” industry.
Even Elizabeth Warren concedes this point.
hilts
RIP Marvin Minsky
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/business/marvin-minsky-pioneer-in-artificial-intelligence-dies-at-88.html?_r=0
Baud
BAUD! IS ???
ETA: The correct emoji are not showing up.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle:
I did try it, but it didn’t work for me. Neither did the CNN International link. I guess I’ll see highlights tomorrow morning.
p.a.
@dmsilev: Hitler had a plan and people willing to die (not to mention kill) for him. Trump has a ghost tweet-writer and followers who will dump him as soon as he gets bored or loses a few primaries.
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodinger’s cat:
Miss Felicity Lemon, who devoted her every waking moment to inventing the best filing system EVAH!!
Baud
@JPL:
Restraining order.
Gin & Tonic
@hilts: Aw, man…
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: are those ducklings?
Lord Baldrick
Debate also on radio
Westwood One or Sirius
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
They look like ducklings, but they are supposed to be an OK symbol.
satby
@Adam L Silverman: I thought they were bunnies.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: @satby: So your motto is Baud: More Squee for the Common Man?
schrodinger's cat
@Cacti: CItibank and BoA were the biggest TARP beneficiaries, repeal of Glass Steagall made the crisis more severe, it did not cause it.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: That could work.
Adam L Silverman
First question for O’Malley is a damn good one.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: Agree.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: For those of us who can’t be bothered to actually watch, what was it?
Baud
@Gin & Tonic: about his crime policies in Baltimore.
Baud
I wonder if the people selected to ask MOM questions are disappointed.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: A young African American woman (this context matters) asked him how to square his zero tolerance policing policies and minimum mandatory sentences for minor drug crimes, which asymmetrically negatively impact African American communities with his current platform.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Why do you ask that? I’m curious.
Baud
All this talk about climate change when there is still snow on ground. Shame.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
Sousaphones?
JPL
@Gin & Tonic: To expand on Baud’s comment, under O’Malley blacks were incarcerated at a high rate compared to whites. He explained that at the time he was going after the dealers. When he went into office he was burying hundreds of black boys and went after the reason why. By the time he left office, the numbers changed, because a lot of the dealers were off the street.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I thought they were either lemons or peaches.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s a two person race. I wonder if people are really interested in what he has to say.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: There’s no snow on the ground here.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: I thought that was were you were going, but wasn’t sure.
JPL
@Baud: Being of open mind, I do.
Baud
@JPL: I haven’t locked up your vote?
magurakurin
@Baud: The people in Ohio certainly aren’t since he isn’t on the ballot there and he is forbidden to run a write in campaign.
dmsilev
O’Malley: “We’re the only species on the planet without full employment”
I dunno, I’ve seen some awfully mooching ducks at the local pond. Did they earn that bread?
Baud
@magurakurin: That was an embarrassment.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
O’Malley is only 53. This presidential run – and a likely speech at the convention? – is giving him good national exposure for later in 2020 or as DNC Chair or ?
Baud
O’Malley’s city plan is interesting. He might make a good HUD Secretary.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Baud: You promise us an America that’s just ducky?
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: No snow on the ground over here. It was actually more than 40 F here, in January where we barely make it to the teens in many a year.
JPL
@Baud: haha Only a few comments ago, I had a restraining order.
Elizabelle
It is a different world, the one the Democratic candidates live in — full of possibilities — vs. the fear and gloom and doom and FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE the GOP is selling.
Have to wonder about the mental health of those paying attention to the GOP, with an ear to voting for them.
Ick.
Baud
@JPL:
Oh no. I had the restraining order against the hashtag.
schrodinger's cat
@Elizabelle: They are paranoid and lonely.
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat: I thought the recent storm had made it up to Massachusetts.
JPL
I like this format because rather than putting them in an arena and battling it out, you can learn about each of their policies and beliefs.
Baud
The questions are getting more diverse. It’s nice.
Anoniminous
@Elizabelle:
The GOP is a bunch of old angry white guys who dimly realize their life was a complete waste of space/time and nobody is going to give two damns two seconds after the will is read.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Baud: He’s got a lot of good ideas. He’s got a lot of potential to do a lot of good. But he was facing an uphill run against HRC even in the best of circumstances. This time he was immediately pummeled about Baltimore after the killing of Freddy Gray (around 9 years after he was Mayor) and didn’t have good answers for criticism of his record there. I think he has developed a good answer, but it would be stronger if he could point to people from Baltimore who support him.
The stars didn’t align for him in this race. And maybe he’s not a good fit for President – I don’t know. I do hope that he continues to be active in government.
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@Baud: True. What would the trump say… yooge farms.. yooges crops
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: I think one should get a gladius, one a trident and a net, and one a whip and a sicarius. Three candidates enter, one emerges. Call it Spartacus: Corn and Granite.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: Only on the coast. We didn’t even get a dusting.
Cacti
In probably the least surprising move of the night, CNN’s headline on Sanders:
“We will raise taxes”
JPL
haha.. I was feeling the Bern and now O’Malley until the lifting up stuff.
@Adam L Silverman: Sounds like a fox plan.
Baud
Bernie and O’Malley have had their best nights tonight. Maybe Clinton can make it a three-fer.
PhoenixRising
Damn, Martin O’Malley said the F word.
The enduring symbol of our country is not a barbed wire fence, it’s the Statue of Liberty.
Well, if that’s all he delivers, he brought it.
Elizabelle
I am liking Martin O’Malley too. Not as first choice, but he could be a really good surrogate during the general. He’s appealing. I like how he says “thank you”, sincerely, after hearing the question.
HRC up next.
KS in MA
@PhoenixRising:
Loved it!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Cacti: That worked well for Mondale.
Anne Laurie
@Baud
Cape Cod (which usually doesn’t get as much snow as the mainland) got hammered. Here on the ocean end of the state, we got a few inches (more south of the Pike, about 3″ up here on the North Shore). I don’t think the ragged edge of the storm reached as far as SC’s stomping grounds before veering out to sea.
Mike J
I really thought TPM’s bullshit hed “Obama Subtly Puts His Thumb On The Scale For Hillary Clinton” played into the fevered imagination of the conspiracy theorists. The story implies that Obama prefers Clinton to Sanders. Preferring one candidate to another is a far cry from unfairly manipulating the game.
Goblue72
@JPL: Like they’re gonna work with Clinton. Anymore then they worked with Obama. They’re gonna oppose whomever it is, subject to relative case by case bargaining strengths depending on the situation and size of GOP caucus.
Baud
So far, this moderator isn’t offensive. Low bar. But still.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Is it Chris Cuomo? He has been good.
Betty Cracker
I like what O’Malley has to say. But he reminds me of those super-intense guys at a conference or corporate event who took the “maintain eye contact” and “firm handshake” tips in the “Climbing the Corporate Ladder” a little too much to heart. The kind of guy who’d inspire you to take the stairs to avoid being trapped with him in the elevator.
Keith G
@Mike J: The job of a headline c. 2010 is to get da clicks. Did you click through?
Baud
@Elizabelle: I’m not thrilled that he asks the questioners what they think of the answer.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: LOL.
JPL
@Goblue72: Okay.. I had to double check because I didn’t think I mentioned Hillary.
PhoenixRising
@Betty Cracker: MOM reminds me of the boss I had that made me come home and say, ‘Honey, I want you to grow your business to the point where you can hire me, because this phony positive-thinking crap is in truth as good as it’s going to get, in our culture of white male promotion’. Honestly, the guy wasn’t an asshole, and he was sincere…but he inspired me to get out of the professional workforce.
cmorenc
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
So long as this asshole Bloomberg with an egomaniac third way “savior” complex doesn’t come in and hand the election to Cruz or Trump (similar to how LaPage became governor of Maine )- the GOP in control of all three branches for even two years can fatal damage to not just every progressive accomplishment or institution since the New Deal, but they will make sure to sterilize the ground for decades to come against any possibility of restoration with SCOTUS appointments, expensive wars, and vote suppression at the federal level. It’s unfortunate that our current electoral structure makes third-party candidates and votes for said candidates so perversely risky (could be avoided by an “instant runoff” system) – but the two established parties will fiercely defend their fiefdoms against such a possibility, even though the result is so destructive to democracy.
PhoenixRising
I’m bemused by the fact that the only questioners CNN can find for Hillary to win over aren’t old enough to rent a car.
JPL
Hillary is showing some passion.
@Betty Cracker: When I switched over to antenna years ago, one night when sleep escaped me, I surfed and came across a class about elevator talk. Although, it was hilarious, it also put be to sleep.
BillinGlendaleCA
@cmorenc:
Then again, we have difficulty in running elections and counting votes as it is.
dmsilev
Benghazi!
Baud
@JPL:
You’re really rubbing it in with the passion thing tonight.
Baud
I’m not happy with the questions for HRC tonight. Not that substantive yet.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Are they asking about choosing china for state dinners again?
magurakurin
The young folks who asked her questions looked like deer in the headlights as they listened to her answer. I think a lot of them have no idea who Clinton actually is other than what they read on their facebook pages and reddit.
Belafon
@Mike J: He has so much sway with the press.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Not quite that bad yet. But it seems more meta than about specific issues so far.
Amir Khalid
Someone refresh my memory. Isn’t Don Lemon the CNN guy who said aliens abducted MH370?
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
Black hole.
Cacti
@JPL:
Excuse the young revolutionary.
He’s got a bad case of Clinton Tourettes.
Common symptoms include delusions, and feeling a Berning sensation that you believe is immune to any facts or political realities.
magurakurin
Bernie looks like a little leaguer when you compare him to the stories she is telling now. The woman has been down in the trenches on the international stage. Sanders has nothing in this arena. Nothing.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: The aliens were in the black hole.
ETA: We obviously need to build a wall around the black hole.
ETA2: and have the aliens in the black hole pay for it.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: The town hall is ignoring the real issues of black hole aliens.
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: Yes and who told Kathy Griffin she had a fabulous rack.
magurakurin
She’s gone into the general election now. Their internal polls in Iowa must be good.
Also, too, nice how she didn’t mentioned Trump’s name at all.
Betty Cracker
Good answer from Clinton on Trump’s anti-Muslim bigotry, but I do wish she — or anyone — would point out the stupidity of the “policy” involved, i.e., pause Muslim immigration until we “figure out what’s going on.” WTF is that bullshit? It’s nonsensical. I guess it’s understandable that people focus on the bigotry, but let’s not forget the stupidity.
Prescott Cactus
@Elizabelle:
Vice President O’Malley ?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker:
I think it’s immigration, Emily.
(Oh, that’s different).
dmsilev
@magurakurin: It’d be hilarious to go the entire general campaign without mentioning his name. It would drive him (more) insane.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’m sure they’ll get to when Don Lemon come on.
Adam L Silverman
@BillinGlendaleCA: Wasn’t that the end of the first Avenger’s movie?
Baud
@dmsilev:
Haha. That would be awesome.
Socraticsilence
@magurakurin:
In fairness, Bernie had a point when he said Cheney had a ton of experience too.
PhoenixRising
@Betty Cracker: It’s not a policy suggestion, it’s the id funnel and deserves no acknowledgement.
I’m troubled by the instrumental approach to inclusion: ‘We should respect our Mooslim neighbors because we need their help with our security’..reveals too much about who ‘we’ are and about why we’re not bigots. Not because religious discrimination is wrong and violates our national compact back to 1798, but because ‘we’ need ‘their’ help.
Baud
@PhoenixRising:
She mentioned all of those reasons.
Baud
Questions to Clinton definitely a disappointment.
Trentrunner
@PhoenixRising: You omitted the part where she STARTED by saying “because it’s WRONG to insult and discriminate.”
Convenient.
Baud
Beirut! Yes!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Don’t know, haven’t seen a movie in over 10 years.
dmsilev
Clinton is ripping the GOP another asshole re: their Benghazi behavior.
PhoenixRising
@Trentrunner: Missed that. Even a cranky curmudgeon has to take a whiz sometime.
Betty Cracker
@dmsilev: She handled that well.
Trentrunner
Have we ever seen Clinton this commanding and forceful? I like this Clinton.
Baud
WTF with these questions?
Goblue72
@JPL: As if your statement was made entirely context free. As if he wasn’t up there running against Clinton and in the context of how she would compare. Give me a break.
dmsilev
“Clinton endorses Republican President!”
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I turned it off after he asked Bernie about his sports career.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Boston got a few inches of snow, a completely unremarkable snowfall for this time of year, nothing like what DC or NYC got. At my home in northern Mass. there wasn’t a flake. We were five or six miles north of where the storm ended.
Baud
@dmsilev: She promised to reach across the aisle.
PhoenixRising
Never ask a daughter of Illinois who was the best President. It’s a sucker bet.
Adam L Silverman
@Trentrunner: Yeah, the Benghazi Committee hearing.
Goblue72
@Cacti: Once again your insanity gets the better of you. I keep telling you I’m not a Millenial. You keep projecting regardless.
I can only assume you’re a Boomer with early onset senility.
JPL
@Trentrunner: She’s showing a lot of intensity.. (ha..to Baud)
CNN will soon have breaking news, Clinton admires a republican President, the most.
Baud
@JPL: but now I know you are attacking me because you are a secret Clinton supporter.
jl
@Baud: Next time you’re on the campaign trail, try to remember to say ‘reach across’, not ‘reach around’.
JPL
@dmsilev: yup.. beat me to it.
Goblue72
@BillinGlendaleCA: Wait what?
BillinGlendaleCA
@JPL: So she’ll be just like Obama?
Baud
@jl:
“Give me a reach across. ” That doesn’t make any sense.
Trentrunner
One big advantage 2016 Hillary has over 2008 Obama is that she sure as shit knows what she’s up against with Republicans.
She’s under no delusions about bringing people together. I like that.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: Though it’s OK to reach across the aisle to smack one of the GOPer’s in the face.(a reach around doesn’t work as well).
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: When I was working for local elections, the Benghazi hearings were on TV. The gal that I was waving signs with, told me her husband, not a Hillary fan, was really impressed after watching her and could see himself voting for her.
Elizabelle
They all did well. I am liking Hillary for the general, and I am liking Bernie for raising his issues and getting his ideas out there. Move that Overton window, and inform people.
Proud to be a Democrat.
jl
I think the reach across the aisle questions are useful to understand how the Democratic candidates will approach an intractable problem.
The way things are going now, won’t make a speck of difference whether HRC proposes a obvious win-win micro-wonk incremental improvement, or Sanders proposes a revolutionary policy. The GOP will obstruct, smear, whine, throw poo all over.
Only thing that will change that is if Senate flips,and a wave election get House at least close enough to even that moderate GOPers start to fear for their fates in the general as well as the primaries.
PhoenixRising
@Trentrunner: Yeah, it’s striking. 8 years ago she was apparently convinced that GOPers were just going to accept losing the White House as if that’s the way the game is played and behave in line with the standards of the previous 150 years. Now she knows better. That’s good.
JPL
I thought all the candidates did a good job.
jl
@Baud: Just remember that to use ‘across’ if normal public policy issues ever come up at your campaign ‘rallies’ whatever goes on in those.
PhoenixRising
Any one else think that Sanders ad is…weird?
I guess I’m old. Do you really want to cue
‘”Kathy, I’m lost”, I said/Though I knew she was sleeping
I’m empty and aching and I don’t know why…’
?
The missing lyrics are bugging me.
Baud
@PhoenixRising: It got a lot of praise, but I didn’t care for it.
Adam L Silverman
Post Town Hall open thread is up! With Don Lemon trigger warning too boot!
jl
@JPL: I agree.
I almost didn’t watch, thinking that a townhall was a weak sauce substitute for a debate. But in some ways I think this was more informative. Partly that is due to how badly the media has handled design and questioning at the debates. And I wasn’t too impressed with some of Chris Cuomo’s mindlessly corporate media centrist schtick, but the candidates had enough time to counter the BS effectively.
PhoenixRising
@Baud:
I’m good with 14 seconds of 60 including livestock. I can stand all the families being mommy-daddy-child and all -white…the visuals were as expected, bog-standard.
But the cut from
‘I’ve got some real estate here in my bag’
to
‘Counting the cars on the NJ Turnpike’
was jarring.
I’ll share my magazine, though, and the moon will rise over an open field…
Dude…is Sanders stoned? This is the first I’ve thought of it. He reminds me of if my dad had lived to his 70s. Pot made him a little repetitive and angry…
KS in MA
@Elizabelle:
Me too.
Amir Khalid
@PhoenixRising:
It seems to me that Bernie reaching out to Simon and Garfunkel — seventy-something Jewish men from New York City, like himself — hardly demonstrates the kind of demographic boundary-crossing he must achieve to win the nomination. I may be overthinking that bit.
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: My Mom went to the same high school as Simon and Garfunkel at the same time they were there.
Anne Laurie
@PhoenixRising:
That was my thought the first time I heard it… followed by the realization that the kids it was intended to energize remember the song (if they do at all) as something from their parents’ lame-o playlist.
Hey, Ronnie Reagan got away with using “Born in the USA” as an upbeat jingoistic rah-rah anthem!
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie:
No, he didn’t.
hitchhiker
It took me four days to hitchhike from Saginaw ~~
Ahem. I love to sing that song, but I haven’t watched the ad. I once did hitchhike out of Michigan, at age 18 with my best friend and a couple of hundred bucks between us. This was in 1971, before all the YOU’RE GONNA DIE stories scared the hell out of everybody.
Sigh. I don’t feel the Bern. I’m already dead sick of the primaries.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus: Okay, Springsteen made Reagan’s handlers stop using it at (public) rallies. But the Reagan-olators never figured out that Bruce’s lyrics directly contradicted St. Ronnie’s “morning in America” marketing pap.
Applejinx
The difference is, Bernie’s campaign ASKED and both Simon and Garfunkel said yes, go ahead and use the song, we like what you’re about.
I think it’s a great pick. It’s not about being the most cutting-edge thing. It’s a glimpse of a time that Simon, Garfunkel, and Bernie all were alive to see, when you COULD hitchhike from Saginaw. Economics has a lot to do with it, but many of the things that came out of the pressure of unleashed capitalism, the disintegration of major cities to white flight, the breakdown of social expectations in any sense, had effects way beyond economics.
Once, you could walk off to look for America, without starving, getting murdered by cops, etc.
Things were different then and some people were there to see it, and a Simon and Garfunkel song might be incredibly dated in 2016 but it’s also real.
And it’s taken an incredible amount of effort from rightwingers and Kochs and Fox News and so on, to get us from there to where we are. People so easily assume the current state of things is the natural way things are, never mind how much MONEY and PROPAGANDA has to be spent just to hold things together.
That’s why Trump is doing so well: it’s another form of backfiring, where people are going against what the money and propaganda need them to do. They’re still obeying some of the messages notably about wealth = virtue, but the system’s crumbling.
We’re just not meant to be such total assholes, no matter how much money the Kochs spend to persuade us to be.