My Facebook friend Jonathan Kranz was canvassing in New Hampshire yesterday when he encountered the below charming specimen (reprinted with Jonathan’s kind permission):
Today, I went out canvassing again, my fifth time in New Hampshire. Mostly, it’s been a pleasure; for all my bitching and moaning, I love my country and I take the honor of citizenship VERY seriously. And as many of you know, I love talking to people. But today, something really ugly happened that I’m having trouble shaking from my mind.
Context: I was canvassing with a young man, a junior in high school, who not only looked young, but was wearing a Boston Youth Symphony Orchestra sweatshirt — in other words, it would be damned near impossible to not understand that he was a kid. He is also Chinese-American. So we knock on this door and this guy answers and when I ask if he plans on voting in the Democratic primary, he says he kind of likes Bernie (we declared ourselves as volunteers), he’s probably going for Trump. So far, so good: I’ve seen a lot of that in NH, and I said to him what I always say when someone expresses their inclinations: “What issue is most important to you?”
This is where it gets ugly. “Immigration,” he said. Then he lifted his head toward my colleague. “People like this kid’s parents come over here, and then they ruin the country they came here for. Think about it.” Yeah, I’ve been thinking a lot about it. Setting aside the obvious lack of logic behind the idea, what I can’t wrap my ahead around is this: What kind of person would say something that nasty, that warped, about a kid standing at his door? Who does that? Why?
I abruptly thanked him for his time and we walked away. I talked to my colleague about it, and assured him that this was the worst I’ve seen and it’s not like this most of the time. But shit, that’s not a conversation I wanted to have with a young person who loves his country enough to get personally involved in politics.
Not much to add except: (a) I wonder when this jerk’s ancestors came over, and (b) I can haz national primary?
Ramalama
Because nothing says punching the hippies and their PCways like dressing down a kid.
Amir Khalid
Kids say the darndest things. Sigh. It certainly disproves the common but vain hope that racism or some other evil will die out with any particular generation of people.
April
In Republican bizzaro world, it is a sign of strength to punch down. Kids on their porch, kids gunned down for loud music, desperate child immigrants fleeing violence in south and Central America – they show how big and bad they are by punching down at the innocent and less strong.
Hillary Rettig
@Amir Khalid: we actually have no idea how old the racist is. i was thinking older, but that’s just an assumption. maybe Jonathan will join us and let us know.
RSA
Wow. To talk past a young person who’s standing right in front of you, insulting their parents. That’s… totally beyond my own experience.
Satby
In Republican world, the only Real Americans© are white ones. Even if your parents beat theirs here by a couple hundred years.
msdc
@Amir Khalid: The kid in this story was the canvasser, not the racist Trump voter.
Hillary Rettig
@RSA: exactly. incredibly dehumanizing even by racist standards.
BGinCHI
Because Asians just came here one generation ago?
Because they built the railroads under terrible conditions?
The key question in American, and increasingly, European politics is: WHY is everyone who is white and (mostly) male and (mostly) older so afraid?
Fear Fear Fear.
Hillary Rettig
@April: excellent framing
msdc
But also, this:
Every doubt I have had about Sanders and his support distilled into one chilling anecdote.
Amir Khalid
@msdc:
Ah. I misread the story. My apologies to all.
BGinCHI
Not sure my post at #9 makes sense, but what I mean is: What is at the root of the fear that is driving so much of the current political discourse.
It’s the biggest issue in Scandinavia (and the UK) right now as well, so it’s not just the US.
I don’t think there is a simple answer. Yes, it’s about losing dominance, and the ginning up of xenophobia by the media, and so on. And maybe these are cumulative.
Something is very broken culturally.
Ugh.
henqiguai
Hillary@Top
We *do* have national primaries; it’s just that we call them ‘general elections’.
On the idiot racist; well, idiot racist.
Wapiti
My sister-in-law is Chinese American, and is old enough to be the mother, maybe grandmother, of the canvasser’s collegue’s. Her parents were born in the US, before WWII. Given the Chinese Exclusion Act, her Chinese ancestors had to be in the US before 1882, and might have been here as early as 1849.
Hillary Rettig
@BGinCHI: George Lakoff answered this in Don’t Think of an Elephant: because fear activates promotes conservativism.
Which is why George Bush’s admin kept the terrorist alert system at “orange” (I think it was) until literally hours after he got reelected. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32501273/ns/us_news-security/t/ridge-says-he-was-pressured-raise-terror-alert/
satby
@msdc: It is weird how many of them seem to be “either Sanders or Trump”. Like those two aren’t polar opposites.
amk
does the ah know that the kid’s country owns the entire murkan ass? prolly does and hence his impotent poutrage.
amk
@msdc:
yup. same coin.
satby
@amk: I think the point is that the kid’s country is the same as the racist’ s.
Amir Khalid
Ahem. Now that I understand the story properly:
That man who answered the door is one impressive specimen of mean and thoughtless.
April
@BGinCHI: does it help to think of it as a specific fear of payback? Seems the scaredest (is that a word?) are the ones like this prick who actually have a reason to fear backlash because of loads of past dickish behavior? This is not the first non white this guy has needlessly insulted. He may recognize on some level that he actually would deserve payback if the people he insults achieve equality.
BGinCHI
@Hillary Rettig: I get that mechanism, but how is it such a large demographic has succumbed to mass hysteria so readily?
It’s sad. Not to mention dangerous. I don’t want to go all Godwin….but there has to be some fertile ground for fascist ideas to thrive.
SenyorDave
I think its the fear of the “other”. And first and foremost the other doesn’t look like you. In the case of the US, non-white. And Trump has tapped into that strain in an amazing way. Its been decades since a overtly racist campaign could work, but he has managed it.
BGinCHI
@April: There is definitely something to this. Bullies have to keep the status quo for fear they will get what they have been dishing out.
Their world is only winners and losers.
It’s like a Bully Psychosis has infected white people.
geg6
Wow, that’s even worse than the experience I had canvassing in ’08 for Obama in a white, rural area of my congressional district when I went to a registered Dem house and the biggest, whitest, most blue collar guy imaginable, in reply to my question as to who he was supporting in the primary, answered, “I’m voting for the ni**er.” I was gobsmacked but managed to mumble my thanks for his support and scramble back to the car.
amk
@satby: not according to that ah
Kropadope
@April:
Perhaps it’s not so much that they expect payback as they fear their inability to function in an American with diverse cultural backgrounds. Clearly this douchenozzle doesn’t have the social skills or even basic decorum to thrive in such a society.
Davis X. Machina
@satby:
Internet’s full of stories about how they’re the same — outsiders, protest votes, etc, etc.
Not that I buy it, mind you…
NorthLeft12
@Satby: I can’t upvote this enough. In fact, I can’t upvote this at all. But the sentiment is still there.
I don’t know how many times I have heard or had this conversation with people. In my case, I am accepted as a true Canadian because I am white, while the oriental guy I am with is considered an immigrant. My Dad came to Canada as a WW2 refugee in the early fifties, while the oriental friend I was with had family that came to Canada in the 1850s.
It is never about what you actually do for these RWNJs, it is all about appearances. They are completely ignorant and loathsome.
SiubhanDuinne
Because nothing says “ruining the country” like a 16-year-old violinist.
satby
@Davis X. Machina: I find it hard to believe too, because it’s just so nuts. But maybe older white guys who yell a lot are what some people want for a leader regardless of what they’re yelling about.
I don’t get it.
satby
Everyone have a good day, I’m off to paint baskets for Valentine’s Day.
bin Lurkin'
My parents were immigrants who happened to decide on the deep South shortly after WWII (mostly for reasons of climate, my mother couldn’t tolerate cold), my fishbelly white father did not much like the average white Southerner, he preferred blacks saying that they had a far better sense of humor. I still feel like I connect better with a lot of black folks my age than with many whites of the same cohort, even one of my own kids sadly.
The hippie types I knew growing up who stayed hippie at heart are pretty good people, there were a lot of them who slipped back into conservatism though and they are not very good people.
By the way I wanted to thank those of y’all on the earlier thread who reminded me why my handle is bin Lurkin’.
April
Clearly the Democrats did not lose a voter here. Do we think he voted for McCain and Romney or did he stay home? Is this the previous non voter who is supposed to turn out finally for Trump?
Kropadope
@Davis X. Machina:
Funny, because I see these same sorts of comparisons in the MSM, where they are needlessly tarring both men with the same brush on behalf of establishment politics.
The only people I see pushing that narrative on the internet are people such as noted Bernie hater amk, who appears to have way too much time to, completely unprompted, assholishly larding up threads with comments about how Sanders and his supporters are assholes.
Man, I just finished reading the “Late-Night Iowa Poll-Scrutinizing Open Thread” from last night. This place is becoming hostile territory for people who think Sanders is the better choice for the primary. But I’ll never go over to the GOS. I just can’t do it.
Linda Featheringill
Besides being a racist, that man was a genuine bully. He knew that he was attacking a young person.
Somebody should call Karma and report this guy.
Luthe
@April: It probably is a fear of payback. That’s what you see in arguments over feminism all the time: the nastiest misogynists are afraid that feminism means women dominating society the way men currently do and punishing men for everything that came before. They see the fight for equality as a push for the inversion of society the way it currently is and fully expect to be treated by women the way they currently treat women (that is, like shit).
It’s projection. It always is.
RC
I’m kinda surprised by the reaction here. This was a good thing. The guy was being truthful to the canvasser’s question. Meanly, nastily, idiotically truthful. It’s good for the kid to learn that there are bigots all around, and it’s better to know what they think than have them hide it with a smile and an insincere platitude, then screw you later when they get a chance. Why ask the question if you don’t want to know the answer?
I’m a fourth-generation American but I still occasionally get told to go back “home.” When that happens I think “well, that’s something good to know about you.”
amk
@Kropadope:
LOL. It’s not your christ I hate, it’s your fucking christians.
Iowa Old Lady
@NorthLeft12: Not to mention that the vast majority of African Americans have ancestors here from before the Civil War. It doesn’t matter.
It’s human nature to make in groups and out groups. Even people who are conscious of the impulse and try to fight it do so with only partial success. IMHO, our current situation comes partly from increasing fears generated by economic inequality, which Republican politicians and right wing media stoke and aim toward the other. With that approval, people stop trying and label even guarding their tongues as PC. You let that genie out of the bottle for your own gain and it’s hard to put it back even if you want to.
Kropadope
@amk: Who said anything about him being my “Christ?” Do you have any comprehension how condescending this “Messiah” or “cult of personality” or “cult of the presidency” line of attack on Sanders’s supporters is?
Jonathan Kranz
A few observations: First, let’s please not think of this person as “New Hampshire Man” but as A New Hampshire man, one who is not representative of the approximately 60 – 75 people I’ve talked to through five canvasses over the last month and a half. The incident was shocking not just because of what it was in itself, but because it was not characteristic of the majority of encounters I’ve been privileged to have — even among declared Trump supporters. That last part is important — even among Trump supporters. Yes, I’ve heard some strange and disagreeable things about immigrants, but this man was the only one who opted for cruelty. I may be naive, but I believe that if we’re going to take democracy seriously, we have to be confident that we can talk and listen to/with just about anybody, especially those we disagree with. Perhaps the single most shocking thing we can do to a person with whom we disagree is respectfully listen. If nothing else, the surprise may be a spur for something better for all of us.
HinTN
@BGinCHI: It made sense at #9. It’s all about population (7.3 B and counting), resources, and the instantaneous information about those factors playing out “over there” and seeing ramifications “here” – all stoked by money with an agenda.
amk
@Kropadope:
go google metaphor.
oh btw, it’s your own campaign that said publicly people like you should stop being nasty. I wonder why.
gene108
There are plenty of places in this country, where minorities are not really welcome. But those places are usually out in the boonies, but for the occasional camping trip are not really worth settling down in.
Maybe the overt racism of the past 8 years, plus Trump’s overt racism has allowed people to feel freer in expressing their racism, when in the past they would not say it directly to your face, but would talk about it with their friends.
schrodinger's cat
I did GOTV with a friend in NH in 2012 in an old mill town, the kind you see all over New England and in NY. A town whose best days are behind it. We went to a lower middle class neighborhood, a retirement facility and an upper middle class neighborhood. These were people who had voted for Obama in 2008, so we were not out to convince anyone but just see if they had a ride to go to their polling place, knew where they could vote etc. The only rude person we encountered was a youngish dude not more than 40 in the wealthier neighborhood. Who shooed us away like we were trying to sell him something.
In the poorer neighborhood the people were unfailingly nice, even the ones that had decided to not vote for Obama that time around. They seemed flattered that we took the time to talk to them on a Sunday.
Kropadope
@amk:
It’s not my campaign and I assume it’s because the other campaign hasn’t noticed or doesn’t care how nasty some of its supporters are. ::continues to look in ark’s direction::
dogwood
@amk:
There are some nasty Bernie supporters around here. Kropadope isn’t one of them.
Glidwrith
@SenyorDave: To quote from the thread below from one of Octavia Butler’s books by an Oankali, “Different is dangerous. Different can kill you.”
We aren’t that far from tribes rampaging over each other. Hell, we had several genocides committed within our living memory, so I can understand, to an extent.
I find it supremely ironic that the ones currently screaming fear are the most likely to commit such offenses.
Hillary Rettig
@amk: simplistic analysis is simplistic
Hillary Rettig
@BGinCHI: ah, I see. i think it’s all due to shrinkage, which as we all know, is man’s greatest source of fear and insecurity. :-) actually I’m talking about shrinkage in the economy. the US has had a good few generations, and now that’s going away. and white men’s pie is probably shrinking faster than anyone else’s b/c they had so much to start with.
also, local news is a huge culprit – with constant tales of doom and gloom. And then there’s the Faux News effect, which amps it up.
Sinclair Lewis, more appropriate now than ever: ” “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
amk
@Hillary Rettig:
or plain truth is also plain truth.
Hillary Rettig
@Amir Khalid: the guy is more evidence for my pet theory that if you don’t get wiser as you get older you get objectively and subjectively stupider, because everyone around you is getting wiser.
Nick
Just a comment about the remark up above that mentioned Scandinavia. As an immigrant to Canada, and someone who has followed the debate in other countries, there is an element of fear around the topic of immigration, but at least here, or in Sweden, it’s not the primary one. Unlike the United States, Canada and Sweden have an extensive array of social policies — elections are normally about how to keep these sustainable, and are usually fought over different visions of improving them. There is no party that corresponds to the Republicans that wants to eliminate them. In Canada, debates about immigration are about how it affects the sustainability of social programs — unlike in the United States, an immigrant who doesn’t ‘succeed’ is going to cost the government a fair chunk of money. This, and not fear, is the primary debate over immigration — how many refugees can be taken without screwing things up.
Since the US is already screwed up and has a wretched set of minimal benefits, the debate there is mostly about fear.
amk
@dogwood:
I have read his/her comments here, not just this thread. I disagree. ymmv.
Hillary Rettig
@SenyorDave: I often heard people talk about the problem of “othering,” but didn’t realize how profound it was till I heard this brilliant talk by Naomi Klein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZhI1F5LxbI
Hillary Rettig
@geg6: holy fck!
Kropadope
@Hillary Rettig:
Eh, I don’t have time to delve into the numbers right now, but I’m pretty confident the tough economy, like every tough economy before it, his women and minority populations the hardest.
schrodinger's cat
How do the caucuses in Iowa work? Are the delegates awarded proportionally? Even if Trump is in the lead, he is at < 30% in all the polls I have seen.
Hillary Rettig
@Kropadope: appreciate any correction and I will also do my own fact checking.
Hillary Rettig
@Kropadope: that’s a really interesting point. one could speculate that he has all kinds of problems with people in all arenas of his life, but sees himself only as the victim and never the cause. and why shouldn’t that extend to politics?
Hillary Rettig
@SiubhanDuinne: too bad the kid didn’t have the world’s tiniest violin available to play for the ahole
sparrow
@amk: Seriously? Fuck you.
Hillary Rettig
@Luthe: >It’s projection. It always is.
Amen. the right’s propensity for projection is effing amazing.
Kropadope
@Hillary Rettig:
I’m sure he keeps some very close friends and they all know how bad those other folks are, amiright?
Iowa Old Lady
@schrodinger’s cat: I think all the contests before a certain date are decided proportionally. I believe that’s a party decision.
You hear me hedging though. Someone will correct me if I’m wrong.
sparrow
The “Bernie Bros” Narrative: a Cheap Campaign Tactic Masquerading as Journalism and Social Activism
https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31/the-bernie-bros-narrative-a-cheap-false-campaign-tactic-masquerading-as-journalism-and-social-activism/
schrodinger's cat
Smug self righteousness is strong with Bernie supporters, its going to carry their man to the White House. That and their winning personalities.
WaterGirl
@geg6: either we have friends in common, and this is a very small world indeed, or you were not the only person to get that exact same response in Indiana in 2008.
In any case, that story taught me a lot about what trumps what in decisions of who to vote for, and it’s not always what we expect.
Hillary Rettig
@sparrow: CAN’T WAIT TO READ THIS!
schrodinger's cat
@sparrow: OK so Hillary is full of fail and Bernie is full of win. Is Bernie going to shutter Wall Street?
I tried to find his economic plan but I couldn’t on his website. How is he going to change the current financial status quo?
amk
@sparrow: point proven.
rikyrah
Uh huh
Uh huh
Phuck.outta.here.
Hillary Rettig
@Kropadope: fwiw i think we’re both right
“In Who Suffers During Recessions? (NBER Working Paper No. 17951), co-authors Hilary Hoynes, Douglas Miller, and Jessamyn Schaller find that the impacts of the Great Recession (December 2007 to June 2009) have been greater for men, for black and Hispanic workers, for young workers, and for less educated workers than for others in the labor market” although obs a lot of overlap in those categories
http://www.nber.org/digest/jul12/w17951.html
Kropadope
@schrodinger’s cat: Yeah, because there wasn’t a thread about the election just two entries before this that immediately devolved into post after post bashing Bernie and his supporters, completely unprompted (about 50 unsolicited attacks on Bernie before first positive mention, if that’s exaggeration it’s a very slight one). Unprovoked attacks on Sanders supporters, generally driven by complaints about unknown Sanders supporters in different fora, totally haven’t become a regular a regular feature in the comment threads on this blog?
Just saying that some, not all, Clinton supporters HERE, including on this thread, need a serious look in the mirror.
Cacti
@sparrow:
I can hardly wait until Nevada comes up, and Bernie has to start explaining to Hispanic voters why he voted to support the Minutemen border thugs.
Your buddy Greenwald who authored the above jeremiad also has his own history of embarrassing nativism.
dogwood
@amk:
You know amk, you have a lot of nerve to even suggest that the supporters of any candidate are engaged in a cult of personality. Your homebase is TOD, the most embarrassing cult of personality on the web; 90% of Obots on this site would be banned there.
Citizen_X
Oh, an obnoxious white racist asshole in New England? This is my shocked face.
schrodinger's cat
Bernie Sanders has voted against immigration reform and wants to get rid of the guest worker program. So if Bernie had his way that violin playing kid’s parents would never have been able to work in the United States in the first place.
kc
That’s just awful. I am so sorry that young man had to hear that.
Robin G.
The problem Bernie supporters have is the same basic problem that every movement has: The most obnoxious supporters are also the loudest. There’s also very little as infuriating as the “if I don’t get my candidate I’ll take my vote and go home” threats to sit out the general. While polling suggests that the majority of Bernie supporters do not feel that way, the threats from the minority are strident and stupid. It’s hard not to get angry.
kc
@msdc:
The kid was canvassing for Sanders.
schrodinger's cat
Steve King and Numbers USA love Bernie’s stance on immigration.
ETA: The only difference between Bernie and Trump is that, Bernie wants to offer a path to citizenship to the undocumented workers who are already here. Otherwise he is as restrictionist as Trump when it comes to immigration though not as foul mouthed. T
Iowa Old Lady
For what it’s worth, the Sanders supporters I see FTF are unfailingly polite and say sane things when I say I’m caucusing for Clinton. We’re looking at an internet effect. It’s only online that people wish I’d “croak” or accuse me of female tribalism.
Cacti
@Iowa Old Lady:
They’re even starting to notice Bernie’s internet bros across the pond.
From the BBC.
Johnnybuck
@Hillary Rettig:
Is this not the appeal of Bernie Sanders as well? Now that income inequality is affecting white people, it suddenly becomes the most important thing ever. IMO part of the reason persons of color haven’t warmed up to Sanders is because this isn’t anything new to them anyway and nothing he says about it/does about it is gonna change anything for them either way.
dogwood
@Kropadope:
There’s plenty of things to be offended about around here for anyone who is inclined to be offended. You actually got into a pissing contest the other night with an obnoxious Bernie supporter, the Fuckhead guy. I would no more associate you or Bernie Sanders with him, than I would associate Obama supporters with amk.
Robin G.
@Johnnybuck:
We have a winner.
(Granted, anything that it wakes people up to income inequality is a good thing, regardless of self interested motivation. But it ain’t like it’s new, and once these young voters eventually get out from under their student debt and start ascending financially, a large percentage of them are going to mysteriously start swinging conservative. I’m in my early 30s and watching it happen in real time among my peers. Loans are gone, an improved economy means that salaried positions are opening up for people with graduate degrees, and suddenly former diehard progressives are talking about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. I’m sure this is a normal generational thing, but it’s still infuriating.)
ruemara
@dogwood: really? You need to read GOS. Where Bernie is the second coming that will CHANGE EVERYTHING ‘cos revolution. Critiques of Sanders inevitably turn into bashing the person as a Hillary supporter. There’s a metric ton wrong on Greenwald’s dismissal of the phenomena of his online squad, because I’ve had to deal with it directly, seen on just about every forum. Have I seen Hillary supporters acting like jerks? Yes. Is it on a scale as the Sanders REVOLUTION? Oh hell no.
Steve in the ATL
@satby:
My brain has no idea what to do with this.
Cacti
@ruemara:
Greenwald is the biggest brogressive of them all.
amk
@dogwood: @dogwood:
Yes, I am a proud obot who is also used to stupid, meaningless attacks from the likes of you. You sound like someone who got kicked out of tod because of your blathering. No wonder.
debbie
Dimes to doughnuts that man listens to Glenn Beck who says diversity and tolerance have destroyed the Constitution (literally).
dogwood
@ruemara:
I’m not sure what your point is. No doubt there are some cultists among Bernie supporters. My beef was with a particular commenter who is in the Obama cult of personality having the nerve to speak about it as if it’s unique to Bernie’s people.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Steve in the ATL: My guess is she will be decorating containers for Valentine’s Day gift baskets for her soap biz.
Steve in the ATL
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Ah–soap gift baskets. Thank you–now I have one less distraction to ruin my golf game this afternoon.
MomSense
@schrodinger’s cat:
We probably walked past each other.
gelfling545
Well, I thought about it & I can’t help wishing that this Trump supporter’s ancestors had missed the boat.
henqiguai
@Kropadope (#57):
Perceptions, Krop, perceptions. And a great deal of self-absorbed lack of empathy.
dogwood
@gelfling545:
Better yet if Trump’s ancestors had missed the boat.
JaneE
Every time I see a statement like “ruin the country” I am inclined to ask how. By building the railroads so the USA could expand to the Pacific ocean? The only people who have a right to complain about immigrants are the Native Americans. At least their complaints are justified.
phoebes from highland park
I consider myself a liberal Democrat – progressive – but I really don’t like Bernie Sanders. I like some of his ideas and hope that Clinton, if she gets the nomination, will incorporate some into her campaign. I have run into a bunch of Sanders’ supporters who pull the line about not voting if Clinton is nominated. Well, we can’t afford that luxury of sitting home pouting because “our” candidate lost the nomination.
I’m okay with Clinton, and would, obviously, vote for Sanders if he was nominated. But I sure hope he isn’t.
mike shupp
@BGinCHI:
I was born in this country in 1950. By 1960, I knew what it was all about. I knew how many whites there were, how many blacks, how many other races. I understood who was rich, who was poor, and why they were poor — laziness, having kids out of wedlock, genetic stupidity, etc. I knew what counted for success was school and hard work, and that people saying something else were just whining. My Dad taught me these lessons and Daddy was always right. And I’ve never had any reason at all to change my mind.
Well, I’m a bit older actually, and my father didn’t teach me those lessons. But you get the idea.
Bobby Thomson
@amk: not exactly disproving his point. @Iowa Old Lady: ’twas the same for me in ’08 with the Clinton folks when I was canvassing for Obama. They always invited me in and were full of solidarity.
redshirt
Why can’t everyone be more like me? I’m voting for the Democrat, whomever it is.
The ONLY issue I care about is: Defeat all Republicans.
Join me, friends.
FlipYrWhig
@sparrow: Oh my motherfucking God, Bernsplaining and Greensplaining have converged. I look forward to many hundred comments about how every other flavor of liberal politics is doing it wrong.
Mike R
@redshirt: I’m with you on this voting business. Argue among ourselves as much as we like, but never forgot that the Republicans have an agenda that is actually abhorrent.
sparrow
@amk: from the article:
This is quickly going into when-did-you-stop beating your wife territory. Apparently no defense of Sanders or his supporters is allowed, it’s all proof that we’re sexist bros…
Mnemosyne
For people who think of politics as a team sport (and there are a lot more of them out there than you’d think), it makes sense that he would be “rooting” for either Trump or Sanders since they’re both being presented as underdogs in the MSM. For someone like that, investigating policy details makes about as much sense as finding out the details of their favorite football team’s playbook — interesting information, maybe, but not really important in enjoying the game.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: So now Bernie has Greenwald, and unless MSNBC is using old footage he’s campaigning with Cornel West in Iowa. If he can get Michael Moore and find Hamsher they can both scream at some people and the general’s in the bag!
redshirt
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Moore is already on board. He’s been Bernie tweeting all day.
Chris
It’s a small detail, but it’s important to highlight, because Asian-Americans are, by longstanding stereotype, THE supposed “Model Minority” that bigots repeatedly hold up to blacks and Latinos, telling them “why can’t you be more like them? We wouldn’t give you shit if you were like them.” Here’s yet another anecdote confirming that no, it really is all about race – the Model Minority that supposedly Does Everything Right faces this kind of shit just like everybody else. So no, there really isn’t anything that blacks and Latinos could do to win the approval of the whites who believe this shit.
sparrow
@Cacti: Yes, no one can ever have a good argument or be worth listening to or supporting if they have ever done or said one thing that is unpure in the eyes of the true patriots like yourself. So thanks to Hillary’s record on prisons and wall street, comments about immigrant children, and support for the Iraq debacle, you won’t be supporting her, right?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@redshirt: of course he is, as is Susan Sarandon, because why should neocons be the only self-righteous bloviators who learn nothing from the past? Bill Maher seems a bit chastened.
dogwood
@Chris:
BINGO
schrodinger's cat
@MomSense: Probably did! Was there kitteh hanging outside your OFA office?
WaterGirl
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I had decided that satby and the girls were going to some ceramic painting place to make fun stuff for valentine’s day. You, no doubt, arrived at the correct answer. I should have thought of that!
Chris
@Davis X. Machina:
It probably helps that the Village and assorted East Coast elites do see them as the same – dangerous rabble-rousing populists threatening to replace The Right People. (Of course, all Democrats save a few exceptions like Joe Liebermann fit that mold as far as the Village is concerned).
WaterGirl
@MomSense: As we volunteers were trudging through the snow and cold in Iowa in the last days before the caucus in 2008, we would see the occasional CLEARLY PAID WORKER canvassing for Clinton or Edwards.
We were always polite, but inwardly we were thinking: “hah! they have to pay people to get them to canvass!”
As for the Bernie-ites who are not helping their cause on the internet… the first thing we were told when we got to Iowa was: While you are here: NO BLOGGING, YOU CAN”T EVEN COMMENT ON BLOGS.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chris: When it comes to the Clintons, I think, and I’m guilty of mind-reading I admit, that your average Villager is willing to give Bubba the benefit of the doubt far more than Hillary, mostly because of things Bubba did.
satby
@WaterGirl: I did phone banking in Indiana and I heard that too. Remember, Indiana has been a KKK stronghold for decades.
satby
@Steve in the ATL: @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): LOL, yes, Bella’s right.
Chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Didn’t the Village hate Bubba when he was in the White House? Backwards white trash hillbilly boy who came in and trashed the place, and it wasn’t his place, yo.
gwangung
@FlipYrWhig: This is fairly apparent among non-white or female figures on the Internet…they seem to attract this Gamergate-like attention.
Bernie supporters who shrug it off seem to act a lot like the people who were shrugging off heightened police aggression against blacks.
And that sort of aggresiveness, even if it’s from a tiny minority, has affects on recruiting volunteer and campaign workers.
satby
@redshirt: yup
@Mike R: yup
satby
@WaterGirl: Yes, painting some baskets red and a heart one white. They’re drying now, then to fill, photograph, and post. Busy, busy!
J R in WV
@dogwood:
Can anyone inform the naive among us what TOD is? I’m assuming an odious web site, but can’t get any farther than that.
The naive…
schrodinger's cat
@J R in WV: The only TOD I know is a luxury Italian brand that makes great shoes, they are known for their driving shoes.
Baud
@J R in WV: The Obama Diary.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: Ok that makes more sense.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chris: Yup, and I don’t think that’s completely gone away, but his political skills seem (again, I’m mind reading) to make up for a lot and HRC couldn’t buy a break from them with all the Speaking Fees in all the minds of Tad Devine.
sherparick
@BGinCHI: And why are they so stupid? I just read a quote of Benjamin Franklin, perhaps apocryphal, but is certainly something Franklin could say: “Ignorance is no vice. We are all born ignorant. But it takes a lot of work to make oneself stupid.”
debbie
@satby:
When I first moved back home, I worked temp jobs. One was at White Castle HQ in the Marketing Department. One of my tasks was to listen to the recorded messages left on the complaint line. The messages from Indiana customers were unbelievably racist and obscene (and I’ve used every word in the book, many times). After that experience, I don’t know that I’d even want to drive through the state.
dogwood
@J R in WV:
It’s an Obama supporting site, that doesn’t allow dissension in its comments, where hero worship is the coin of the realm. That said, Its really a great site if you want to see some video of a presidential event without having to weave your way through whitehouse.gov. If I want to see a videoes featuring crazy republicans I’d go to Crooks and Liars. If I want to see a presidential press conference I’d go to TOD.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
(“do marijuana”, heh)
Matt McIrvin
@satby: In terms of their appeal, Sanders and Trump aren’t polar opposites. Sanders is gaining among the same lower-income white voters who go for Trump. If you’re struggling to get by, are afraid of what the future brings and worry that society isn’t going to have a place for you any more, both of these guys are talking to you. More than any of the other candidates in either party.
The big, big difference between them is who they say is to blame, and what they say has to be done about it.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ebony and Ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side in my Mary Jane hangout, oh Lord, why don’t we?
Iowa Old Lady
@satby: That sounds like fun.
satby
@Matt McIrvin:
I know you’ve seen snippets of my current life saga, so I’m just going to say that not everyone who is down and close to out is receptive to either of them. I can see why that might be an understanding, but I think the appeal is different. And might come close to “where’s mine?”.
mapaghimagsik
@Kropadope:
Not a bug. A feature.
Scamp Dog
@Hillary Rettig: Apparently that’s not actually a Sinclair Lewis quote (see here), but a quote from journalist Harrison Salisbury in 1971: “Sinclair Lewis aptly predicted in It Can’t Happen Here that if fascism came to America it would come wrapped in the flag and whistling ‘The Star Spangled Banner.”
stinger
@WaterGirl: Nobody paid me! On the other hand, what’s obvious to us natives is when they are CLEARLY NON-IOWANS.
PaulW
I worked as a Census enumerator in 2010, and one time I get a guy at the door who refuses to answer simple questions, because he’d gotten the word from the Far Right wingnuts that the Census was an evil librul ploy to get documented information ON EVERYBODY.
Which, you know, the Census is supposed to be, because it’s constitutionally required every ten years to adjust the Congressional seating. I tried to tell him that, and that certain questions such as employment and number of kids in the household were usually standard stuff well back into the 1800s.
But this guy was really paranoid about it, and slammed the door in my face before the survey could be finished.
This was in one of the nicer, expensive house neighborhoods in West Pasco County.
GregB
@Scamp Dog:
And wearing a red hat that says: Make America Great Again.
kc
Welp, looks like I won’t be able to afford health insurance again this year.
Chris
@PaulW:
I worked on that too, mostly in the less white and less well off demographics of DC. Honestly, I could sympathize with all the people refusing to answer questions. Aside from the most basic things (name, address and birthday), the only two questions on the census were about race. I can totally see why that would trigger Japanese-Internment-Paranoia. (I’d understand it even more nowadays, with Trump and all).
Your right wing asshole, though, considerably less sympathy.
goblue72
@msdc: Fuck off.
goblue72
@amk: Give me a break. Seriously, a number of you Clinton supporters are just downright deranged.
goblue72
@Kropadope: You’re wasting your time with this crowd. The 101st Centrist Boomer Bridge is utterly convinced that the entirety of support for Sanders is composed of entitled douchebros and that Sanders is a messianic loon. Despite statistical evidence to the contrary as to the demographics of Sanders support, which is as much about age as anything else. (That is, Sanders leads amongst younger voters; Clinton amongst older voters). Or that Sanders supporters are just the latte crowd – again, despite data showing the situation to be more complicated than that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That’s not true, there are also the earnestly deluded adolescents and the self-righteous old hippies for whom a Bernie sign or bumper sticker is like a brief trip back in time. One thing they do have in common is a need to watch this video.
I asked you the other day which House and Senate campaigns you were bringing all your righteous anger to. You must have had to rush off to a voter registration drive before you could answer.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Those Schoolhouse Rock things were great. Google needs to work on the AutoCC feature though… :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
artem1s
@henqiguai: Absolutely correct. National primary is the eventual road of the GOP. They know they are losing their grip and will look for this to be the next step in making sure they have control over the process, including neutralizing the crazies they created. Never mind it’s only a short term, desperate fix.
You really don’t want a national primary. It will guarantee a grifter like Trump will sweep through and grab the nomination before anyone has seen what a horrific mess he is. It will only strengthen cult of personality voting. Not a good. thing.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
There is some serious ugliness in the land, and it’s such a recent phenomenon that it almost has to be Trump related. On NPR’s Morning Edition they interviewed an Imam at a Mosque in Iowa and he basically said in the past few months there’s been a huge swell of anti-Muslim sentiment that wasn’t there until very recently. You can tell he likes America, or at least did until a few months ago. He basically said, you don’t need to make America great again, because it’s already a great and welcoming country, or at least was until very recently. I find that very sad. This election is toxic. The good side absolutely has to win.