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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Why Iowa? Why New Hampshire?

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Why Iowa? Why New Hampshire?

by Anne Laurie|  February 6, 20166:06 am| 171 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Election 2016, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?, Our Failed Media Experiment

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nh primary sap boiling toles

(Tom Toles via GoComics.com)
.

If we were designing the primaries from scratch, would we make candidates first compete in Jan/Feb in states likely to be buried by snow?

— daveweigel (@daveweigel) February 5, 2016

There’s yet another GOP debate tonight (8pm EST, on ABC), but I don’t think I’ll be watching it. Stage is down to “just” Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Bush, Kasich, and Christie. The NH primary is on Tuesday, in the face of two potentially troublesome snowstorms, because apparently the weather gods are beginning to hate the media/campaign people almost as much as those of us bombarded with pre-primary political ads. And yet, “everybody” has to pay attention to New Hampshire, just as “everybody” had to pay attentio to Iowa. Is this really any way to officially start a national competition with so much depending on the outcome?

Professor Krugman:

The outsized role the Iowa caucuses play in the nomination process is, as almost everyone acknowledges, sort of stupid. But where does it come from? The immediate answer is that it’s about the news media, which seize on the Iowa results and use them to tell narratives that can, in turn, have a huge impact on fundraising and later voting…

…[I]t’s obvious that the media have strong herding instincts; almost everyone wants to be somewhere close to the middle of the pack, telling the prevailing narrative. But there are many narratives that could, in fact, prevail. Partly that’s because such narratives can be self-fulfilling, and partly it’s because actually being, you know, right isn’t that important compared with being on top of the trend. So anything that gives special salience to a particular narrative can produce convergence on that narrative, even if everyone realizes that what’s going on is basically stupid…

Turnout for Iowa Caucus 358K or 15.7% of eligible Iowans, down slightly from 16.1% in 2008 https://t.co/a3NvSqlzDU

— Michael McDonald (@ElectProject) February 2, 2016

The people have spoken: 15.7 % of a wildly unrepresentative state https://t.co/4Uldpevuj2

— Norman Ornstein (@NormOrnstein) February 2, 2016

The caucasians have spoken.

— Bill Hammond (@NYHammond) February 2, 2016

None of the camps in either party are happy with the Iowa results — there’s an argument to be made that the whole jury-rigged “heartland virtues” system just made things worse this year, between the Cruz people ratfvcking Carson to cheat Trump (to the earned-media benefit of Rubio), and the penny-ante thimble-rigging required on the Democratic side to assign a finite number of delegates before all of them died of ennui.

And nothing I’ve seen indicates that New Hampshire is going to be any less of a circus.

Is this really the best we can do?

The NH establishment race has taken on quality of a Wharton novel wherein characters relegated to unhappiness will ruin the innocent.

— Katherine Miller (@katherinemiller) February 6, 2016

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Previous Post: « Late Night Open Thread: Feel the Bern! (But Wash Your Hands, First)
Next Post: The Third-Term Hilemma »

Reader Interactions

171Comments

  1. 1.

    Betty Cracker

    February 6, 2016 at 6:19 am

    I’ll probably watch the debate since the face-plant potential is at an all-time high. Trump must be itching to reverse the loser narrative; Carson is surely plotting revenge on Cruz for his Iowa shenanigans; Jeb and Christie are desperate to pants Rubio, etc. The air on stage will be thick with flung turds. What’s not to like?

  2. 2.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 6:30 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Also, Trump has been going nuts with his language in rallies the last few days. We can always hope he’ll drop a big noisy S-bomb or F-bomb at the debate, sending the moderators to their fainting couches and bringing down the wrath of the FCC on ABC.

  3. 3.

    Just One More Canuck

    February 6, 2016 at 6:32 am

    it’s the Upper Class Twit of the Year Show

  4. 4.

    amk

    February 6, 2016 at 6:43 am

    you are wrong.

    jeb mommy. fixed.

  5. 5.

    Mustang Bobby

    February 6, 2016 at 6:49 am

    I’ll watch the debate if I’m done catching up on TiVo stuff like “The Mysteries of Laura.”

  6. 6.

    bystander

    February 6, 2016 at 6:52 am

    I think Hallmark is having a Murder She Wrote marathon, so I’ll probably be missing the repub debate. Unless of course the moderators include Angela Lansbury, William Windom and Special Guest Stars Kathryn Grayson and Mary Withers.

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    February 6, 2016 at 6:52 am

    Understatement of the year (so far) from a newspaper crime report:

    Tampa police say a shooting at a club involves seven victims. Authorities said they did not yet have information if anyone was killed.

    Lt. Ricardo Ubinas said early Saturday that police were on the scene of the shooting at Club Rayne, 8123 N. Nebraska Ave. His statement did not give information on fatalities.

    Officer William Copulos of the Tampa police said the shooting was being investigated and police would release more information later. He said he believed there may have been a disagreement in the club but did not have specifics. No other details were immediately available.

    Ya think?!?!?

  8. 8.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 7:02 am

    Whatever happens with this election, I hope someone takes a serious look at the primary process. Democrats in particular should be on the forefront of making it easier to participate in primary elections and having a fair process.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 7:04 am

    I can’t watch the GOP debate tonight. I would like to have seen Jeb!’s last stand.

  10. 10.

    bystander

    February 6, 2016 at 7:08 am

    Just saw on Rachel Maddow that Jeb! has had no success campaigning with a talking topographical map (and I say that because I loathe her) so he’s going to run an ad featuring his beloved brother. He’s bought time during the Superbowl. Are there strictly local spots or is everything national? Anyway, could turn the whole thing into the Superbowel.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 7:13 am

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel:

    We can always hope he’ll drop a big noisy S-bomb or F-bomb at the debate,

    My money is on a jerking off gesture.

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 7:15 am

    To answer your question Anne, yes this is the best we can do. If only because it isn’t any worse than anything else we might do. You have to remember we belong to that particular sub species of Homo Sapiens known as Americanusassholus. We can fvck up a wet dream. How else does one explain the political relevance of Rick Santorum?

  13. 13.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 6, 2016 at 7:21 am

    I’ll read the live blog of an R debate so I can be amused, whereas watching it would infuriate me. With Ds, it’s the opposite.

  14. 14.

    MBunge

    February 6, 2016 at 7:26 am

    Iowa and New Hampshire are like a microcosm of what is fundamentally wrong with our politics. There’s no reason for them to be so important but we don’t trust ourselves enough to do anything about it.

    Mike

  15. 15.

    Mary G

    February 6, 2016 at 7:28 am

    @bystander: Yes, that’ll help. Trot out that ex-president the Republican party has had in the Federal Witness Protection program for the last eight years. So much so that they talk about Clinton/Obama ideas like the first eight years of this century didn’t happen. What an idiotic plan.

  16. 16.

    Phylllis

    February 6, 2016 at 7:48 am

    @bystander: It’s already showing here in SC.

  17. 17.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    February 6, 2016 at 8:04 am

    @efgoldman:

    Anyway, doesn’t everybody get fucking HBO now?

    Nope, some of us aren’t wealthy retirees.

  18. 18.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 8:12 am

    Another Republican debate? Ugh. I’ve successfully avoided all debates so far but especially Republican ones. I’m not mentally strong enough to see any of that and not go all Hulk on my TV. I was bummed that I was facing another 5 hours of driving today after diving for 6 1/2 yesterday, but knowing that I will miss that makes me feel better.

  19. 19.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 8:14 am

    @efgoldman: If he doesn’t have any political relevance, how do you explain all the spilled ink about him these past few months? He get’s his money from somewhere and he still continues to spew his vile mix of piety and politics over the airwaves and people still listen. Yes, he’s a joke, and we all know he’s a joke, but the joke is on us. I’ll laugh but it’s only because crying won’t do any good.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 8:17 am

    @efgoldman: We canceled Michigan and Florida delegates last time. I think we can do the same to Iowa and New Hampshire.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 8:17 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I don’t get HBO.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 8:18 am

    @efgoldman: Same here.

  23. 23.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 8:21 am

    @Baud: I wish they would. But then I wish for a sane electorate too, and world peace.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 8:23 am

    @satby: Yeah, I wish to win the lottery so I don’t have to worry about the other stuff.

  25. 25.

    Kirbster

    February 6, 2016 at 8:25 am

    The negative advertising from the conservative SuperPACs is something to behold, as the candidates attack each other from the right. Each and every GOP candidate is secretly an Obama-loving squish who is insufficiently bellicose on foreign policy and unacceptably soft on immigration. Sitting GOP governors get pilloried for actually trying to govern pragmatically (their ideology is not pure!) and (worst of all) accepting FREE MEDICAID MONEY. The message is that the ideal conservative is unwaveringly callous and cruel at home and abroad.

  26. 26.

    different-church-lady

    February 6, 2016 at 8:30 am

    If I were designing the primaries from scratch, I would make candidates first compete in summer in the bowl of an active volcano. While wearing synthetic fur.

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 8:32 am

    @Baud: I don’t get any TV.

  28. 28.

    debbie

    February 6, 2016 at 8:34 am

    @efgoldman:

    (After 20 years in commercial and public radio, the language on HBO still startles me.)

    Nah, just makes me nostalgic for family dinners back when I was a kid.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 8:37 am

    @different-church-lady: Greco-Ramen wrestling. No, that is not a typo. They have to wrestle on a tarp covered in well oiled ramen noodles. Dignity does not survive.

  30. 30.

    low-tech cyclist

    February 6, 2016 at 8:42 am

    One obvious thing is that the early primaries could WAY better reflect the Democratic Party’s demographics. Forget Iowa – lead off with Delaware or Rhode Island.

  31. 31.

    different-church-lady

    February 6, 2016 at 8:44 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: It wouldn’t work: they’d like it.

  32. 32.

    Zinsky

    February 6, 2016 at 8:45 am

    I won’t be watching the debates. They just raise my blood pressure. However, I would give anything to hear a moderator ask, “Why are none of the GOP candidates talking about responsible governance? It’s all about killing people, erecting barriers and blowing things up?”

  33. 33.

    low-tech cyclist

    February 6, 2016 at 8:46 am

    @efgoldman:

    Anyway, doesn’t everybody get fucking HBO now?

    Hell, some of us don’t even bother with cable. My wife and I realized we would be paying a thousand bucks a year to watch a few hours of TV a week (neither of us have ever been big TV watchers), and decided we could find ways to blow $1000 that were actually fun.

  34. 34.

    NotMax

    February 6, 2016 at 8:47 am

    @Baud

    Ditto.

  35. 35.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 6, 2016 at 8:48 am

    Still weirded out by the Heimlich thing. My doctor friend said “doesn’t it feel nice?” and I was like STFU, but yes.

  36. 36.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 8:50 am

    O.T. for the Chicago peeps, but legendary radio jock Larry Lujack passed away. The narrator for the soundtrack of my youth.

  37. 37.

    NotMax

    February 6, 2016 at 8:50 am

    Yeah, there are problems with both Iowa and New Hampshire each time.

    However including a compact, easy to get around state and a relatively less populous state away from the coasts aren’t totally bad choices when it comes to honing a campaign,

  38. 38.

    magurakurin

    February 6, 2016 at 8:51 am

    @Baud: It is something that has been looked at and talked about for a very long time. There have been a number of proposals over the years. I sort of like the inter-regional idea but it would be costly in terms of travel. But ending the Iowa-New Hampshire clusterfuck would be a good start no matter what.

  39. 39.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 8:52 am

    @Major Major Major Major: I was too late to that thread, but very well done you! Congrats on saving a life, that’s awesome.

  40. 40.

    oldgold

    February 6, 2016 at 8:57 am

    The entire electoral process is effed up beyond all recognition. The Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary are the least of our problems.

  41. 41.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    February 6, 2016 at 9:02 am

    Kind of off topic, but I’m heading out to a bonfire soon, to stand in the snow. It’s a fairy land here today in Boston. Can’t leave without stirring up the Bernfeeler/Shillary pot, though, so I’ll leave this here.

    You’re welcome.

  42. 42.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 6, 2016 at 9:11 am

    @satby: My dad said “maybe all the Krav training had something to do with it?”

    And I said “That’s not exactly the sort of thing they teach you?”

    And he said “Well they do teach you how to wound the xiphoid process, so there’s that.”

  43. 43.

    Virginia Highlander

    February 6, 2016 at 9:16 am

    Can a post be off-topic in an open thread?

    This should have been posted to last night’s Bunker update, but seriously Guardian, what the actual fuck? Slobbering over Snowden I can sort of understand, but the militia movement? “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”?

    I read the world-news pages at both the BBC and The Guardian and I swear between the two I probably don’t know a damn thing about world events.

  44. 44.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 9:18 am

    The Catholic Churches response to the Zika virus:

    Robert Kennedy, chair of the department of Catholic studies at the University of St Thomas in St Paul, Minnesota, said the church was unlikely to ease its stance in light of the crisis. “I think the church will take what steps it can to offer support – material, spiritual and personal – to families affected by the problem, but I see no circumstances in which the church will repudiate its teaching about artificial contraception.”

    The church believed that “some kinds of acts are always wrong” and these included “contracepted intercourse,” he added. “No set of circumstances can make acts like these morally good.”

    Remind me again why so many seemingly decent human beings remain affiliated with that morally bankrupt institution?

  45. 45.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 9:20 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Whoops, forgot the LINK for above.

  46. 46.

    Eric S.

    February 6, 2016 at 9:21 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: My dreams brevet involve Santorum.

  47. 47.

    The Golux

    February 6, 2016 at 9:38 am

    @Mary G:

    Trot out that ex-president the Republican party has had in the Federal Witness Protection Witless Projection program…

    Even more descriptive.

  48. 48.

    Eric S.

    February 6, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @satby: Lujack passed away in December 2013.

    My parents moved to the Chicago area in 1979. I was 7 going on 8. We had a family breakfast every morning before work and school and Lujack was the DJ for WLS. We always liked forward to he and Tommy Edwards doing Animal Stories.

  49. 49.

    catclub

    February 6, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @efgoldman:

    doesn’t everybody get fucking HBO now?

    Nope. Over the Air. Cheapskate also avoids Fox News.

  50. 50.

    sparrow

    February 6, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Lots of them just ignore the contraception thing, and lots of other inconvenient doctrines, even though they may be fairly devout (aka, tribally committed) otherwise. My father is a catholic, goes to church every week and even sometimes more, volunteers, gives money, etc. He had his tubes tied before getting an annulment of his first marriage (which produced 2 children! I still never understand how that got done), and remarrying. I know my parents kept condoms in my dad’s bedside table all during my childhood. I never asked them about it, but unless they were complete hypocrites they must have just decided to agree-to-disagree.

  51. 51.

    Eric S.

    February 6, 2016 at 9:42 am

    @Major Major Major Major: I didn’t see the original story but I can relate a bit. One year ago, days after having shoulder surgery, my father started to choke. I had to perform the Heimlic.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 9:43 am

    @Virginia Highlander:

    He and other anti-government activists

    I wonder if that’s how British media would describe the IRA.

  53. 53.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 9:43 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Best line of many killer lines: “This election will not have been given to her, she will have earned it. If you can respect that, if you can’t deep down in your heart of hearts give credit to a woman who has done so much for her country and still has more left to give, if you can realize that this woman has been brutally attacked for a quarter-century simply for having the last name Clinton, if you can do all that then you can swallow your pride in November and cast a vote for someone who will be leaps and bounds ahead of whoever the Republican Party nominates after his months-long three-ringed circus. If you truly care about this country the way that you proclaim to do, then you will vote for the Democratic Party nominee for president”

  54. 54.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @Eric S.: weird, it showed up in a news feed like it was current news, and I was so sad I missed the date. :(
    Thanks though.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @satby: That happened to DougJ the other day.

  56. 56.

    El Caganer

    February 6, 2016 at 9:47 am

    @Betty Cracker: Are you really sure you want to do that? A few days ago Chubs Chubbie told Joe Scarborough that he was going to start ‘pounding the meat.’ I don’t know exactly what this means he’ll do tonight, but the images it conjures up are not promising.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 9:49 am

    @El Caganer: He’s going to spank those monkeys at the debate.

  58. 58.

    Eric S.

    February 6, 2016 at 9:50 am

    @satby: I’ve seen that happen before. Somehow a news story gets recycled and it looks current in no short part because the ads are dynamic. The date line on stories is also often in the fine print.

  59. 59.

    Germy

    February 6, 2016 at 9:54 am

    So Christie is monkey spanking, Cruz is rat fucking…

    I was listening to PRI yesterday (don’t know why) and someone said they were talking to Jeb’s money people. They were asked what they’d do if Jeb underperformed at the next showdown, and their reply: “Rubio, Rubio Rubio”

    So I guess there’ll be a mass $ migration to the waterboy.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 9:55 am

    Washington State Via Reddit

    A gun-rights bill introduced at the Capitol on Friday includes six quotes from America’s Founding Fathers about the importance of guns to democracy.

    The problem is, half of those quotes are fake.

  61. 61.

    Germy

    February 6, 2016 at 9:57 am

    @Baud: It’s one thing when deliberately wrong information gets into the brains of our neighbors and family. It’s another thing when deliberately wrong information gets into the brains of our legislators.

    Wait… what brains?

  62. 62.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 9:57 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: The Church is against artificial contraception, but it’s perfectly ok and advocates (in third world countries) natural family planning, which can have success (symptothermal method) effectiveness of 99.6%. It has the benefit in poor countries of being free too.
    I’m an ex-Catholic, but judging the entire Church by the corrupt fuckers of the American conference of bishops is misleading. I don’t agree with the Church on almost anything, but their stance is internally consistent at least.

  63. 63.

    Amir Khalid

    February 6, 2016 at 9:57 am

    @satby:
    I took a look at the rest of the site, and it has a very strong Hillarista lean. I still broadly agree with its conclusions in that article, but those who support Hillary should watch out for confirmation bias.

  64. 64.

    WereBear

    February 6, 2016 at 9:58 am

    @Kirbster: The message is that the ideal conservative is unwaveringly callous and cruel at home and abroad.

    Well, it’s true.

  65. 65.

    Amir Khalid

    February 6, 2016 at 9:59 am

    @Baud:

    A few days ago Chubs Chubbie told Joe Scarborough that he was going to start ‘pounding the meat.’

    OMG. I know he’s the governor and all, but can he actually do that in public?

  66. 66.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 10:00 am

    @Amir Khalid: Agree. I urge all Baud! supporters to objectively look at all the candidates before concluding that I am the best one.

  67. 67.

    El Caganer

    February 6, 2016 at 10:01 am

    @Germy: True enough. If the zombies invaded most of the state legislatures in our fair land, they’d starve.

  68. 68.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 10:02 am

    @sparrow: I’m a Catholicism survivor. Old enough to remember Latin Mass. My mother was a born and bred Southern Baptist who converted to marry my Papist father (and was threatened with being disowned if she went through with it). Made sure that each of my sisters were on the pill as soon as they had their first period. And yet…. never once used any contraceptives herself. 8 pregnancies, 7 children, the last at the age of 42. So yeah, I know all about how Catholics will pick and choose which tenets to uphold.

    But that wasn’t my question. I asked why do they stay with it? My mother couldn’t. When she was dying, I asked her if she wanted a priest. She said, “No.” and that was all she said. So why do so many stay with it? Habit?

  69. 69.

    Germy

    February 6, 2016 at 10:03 am

    @WereBear: Yesterday, our indoor cat ran across the living room at fifty miles per hour and jumped up to look out our front window. I was curious what she was so interested in looking at, and saw a small tuxedo cat walk across our lawn.

    Nothing unusual, she likes watching the outdoor cats who wander through our yard. But then the tuxedo dashed across our busy street without looking, and came about one inch from being flattened by a speeding car. He made it the the other side and disappeared into an alley.

    I was immensely relieved he made it. She kept watch for about an hour after that, running from window to window, but I think he was hiding, shook up from the experience. There are some outdoor cats around here who know to stop and look both ways, but he was of the “run quickly across the road without looking” school.

    We keep our girl indoors. People don’t brake for cats around here.

  70. 70.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 10:03 am

    @Amir Khalid: Agreed. But he succinctly states something that makes a lot of people like me crazy, that most of the attacks on Clinton’s “dishonesty” are a result of 25 years of constant right wing smears and propaganda.
    I give the woman credit for not telling the entire nation just to fuck off, which is why she may become President and I never would.

  71. 71.

    Germy

    February 6, 2016 at 10:04 am

    @El Caganer:

    If the zombies invaded most of the state legislatures in our fair land, they’d starve.

    As would a soul-sucking demon.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @Germy: Even the demontors were horrified ….

  73. 73.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @satby: Maybe she should have made a jerking off gesture at the last debate.

  74. 74.

    Germy

    February 6, 2016 at 10:08 am

    I’d like to see at least one debate limited to rude hand gestures.

  75. 75.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @Baud: or her last SOTU.

  76. 76.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 10:10 am

    @Germy: I like the cut of your jib!

  77. 77.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 6, 2016 at 10:10 am

    @Baud: And said she’d beat Bernie’s behind.

  78. 78.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 10:10 am

    @satby:

    The Church is against artificial contraception, but it’s perfectly ok and advocates (in third world countries) natural family planning, which can have success (symptothermal method) effectiveness of 99.6%.

    My mother had one word for that: “Bullshit.” and she had the 7 pregnancies to prove it. (only one was intentional)

  79. 79.

    WereBear

    February 6, 2016 at 10:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Remind me again why so many seemingly decent human beings remain affiliated with that morally bankrupt institution?

    I believe their official motto is something like, “Get ’em while they are young, and they are in our grip for life.”

    When I discuss it with people, they harken back to sunlight on stained glass, the thrill of their parents at First Communion, feeling uplifted by the atmosphere when they were a child.

    It never ever has anything to do with morals stances or the convoluted beauty of the dogma.

  80. 80.

    NotMax

    February 6, 2016 at 10:17 am

    @Germy

    So the result will be that it’s true Blond has more funds.

    /VO-5 slogan reference

  81. 81.

    Ken

    February 6, 2016 at 10:17 am

    There’s yet another GOP debate tonight

    This becomes easier to understand if you think of them as reality TV: cheap to produce, and guaranteed audience numbers and ad revenues.

  82. 82.

    WereBear

    February 6, 2016 at 10:18 am

    @Germy: Youth. Sometimes they don’t get a chance to learn.

    Ours stay indoors, too. If they get bored, they watch a movie on the Chromebook.

    But we don’t get them HBO. Too much swearing.

  83. 83.

    debbie

    February 6, 2016 at 10:20 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Isn’t that what they’re doing behind their podia?

  84. 84.

    Germy

    February 6, 2016 at 10:21 am

    @NotMax: I think Don Draper came up with the “Is it true blondes have more fun?” campaign.

  85. 85.

    NotMax

    February 6, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @Germy

    Actually may have been Clairol and not VO-5.

    Too lazy at 5:25 a.m. to check it.

  86. 86.

    Virginia Highlander

    February 6, 2016 at 10:30 am

    @Baud: Exactly so!

    Wankers.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 10:31 am

    @satby: I was disappointed Obama took the “mature” route at his final SOTU.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 10:34 am

    @Virginia Highlander:

    Wankers.

    Nice job tying it to the theme of this thread.

  89. 89.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 6, 2016 at 10:36 am

    @WereBear: I haven’t been to a Xmas mass in over 30 years any other kind of mass in over 43 years. I still miss the mystery and majesty of Latin mass even though they stopped giving those when I was 5 or 6. But I don’t miss the nuns, I don’t miss the beatings, I don’t miss seeing my classmates brutalized…

    One of the hardest conversations I ever had with my mother was the one when she apologized to me for what had been done to me. It was hard because I had to watch her struggle with her own… I’ll call it a ‘complicity of ignorance’. As she said, she knew something was wrong but had no idea what. That I had always been a quiet child, but that then I just shut up.

    It made sense that she would not be able to figure it out. She grew up SB, had no experience with Catholic schools. My old man was on the road all the time and when he was at home she was loath to bother him with problems when she wasn’t even sure there was a problem.

    I never held it against her or him. But I have never forgiven the legions of adults in that school who were perfectly aware of what was going on in that classroom.

  90. 90.

    feebog

    February 6, 2016 at 10:39 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    A few days ago Chubs Chubbie told Joe Scarborough that he was going to start ‘pounding the meat.’

    OMG. I know he’s the governor and all, but can he actually do that in public?

    He will have to find it first.

  91. 91.

    OldDave

    February 6, 2016 at 10:40 am

    @satby:

    … Larry Lujack passed away

    Again?!? (Lujack passed in December of 2013.) Can’t quite remember of it was Lujack or another WLS jock who once introduced a new Ringo Starr song via a long story about the Poe Toe Graph.

  92. 92.

    scav

    February 6, 2016 at 10:42 am

    OT Whoop! First Folio day for me at the Illinois stop. Preserved forests indeed. With luck, I’ll come back to watch something civilized, rather than the debates. Titus Andronicus or maybe all of the Wars of the Roses.

  93. 93.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 6, 2016 at 10:43 am

    Apologies if this was covered in a late night thread, but a Federal court has thrown out the gerrymandered districting in NC and said no election until they fix it, including no March 15 primary. Mail in voting has already begun.

  94. 94.

    bystander

    February 6, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Thanks for the link. Nicely cogent.

  95. 95.

    bystander

    February 6, 2016 at 10:45 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: This is the kind of news we need to be hearing if Congress is going to turn around.

  96. 96.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 10:46 am

    Apollo 14 astronaut, and the sixth man to walk on the moon, Edgar Mitchell, has died at age 85. (And yes, I checked the date of the report.) RIP. I was fascinated by those early astronauts back in the 1960s and ’70s, and it saddens me that they are of an age that they are all dying off.*

    *Of the “original seven” (which group did not include Mitchell), only John Glenn is still alive — and he’s 94 years old.

  97. 97.

    catclub

    February 6, 2016 at 10:51 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: wow. That seems like a big Biden deal.

  98. 98.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    February 6, 2016 at 10:57 am

    I kind of like that the first two candidate selection events of the election season are ridiculous and nonsensical. Hear me out. Most of our politics is show and blather. It’s inefficient and downright confounding. Without two glaring examples of our process making absurd mistakes and drawing irrelevant conclusions right at the start we might forget that the rest of it is very little better. The faceplams that open the voting (and caucusing) serve as a reminder that the system is a mess and we need to pay close attention.

  99. 99.

    GregB

    February 6, 2016 at 11:07 am

    Hopefully Trump will turn the debate into an episode of Deadwood.

  100. 100.

    No One You Know

    February 6, 2016 at 11:24 am

    @different-church-lady: First primaries in Hawai’i, Oregon, and Washington! :-)

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    February 6, 2016 at 11:24 am

    Good Morning, Everyone :)

    Off to the funeral of a Church Mother :(

  102. 102.

    Amir Khalid

    February 6, 2016 at 11:25 am

    Per TPM, Ted Cruz’s people seriously believe he can win the White House with just white voters. SMH.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 11:26 am

    @Amir Khalid: He technically can.

  104. 104.

    Honus

    February 6, 2016 at 11:28 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: similar story here. Both parents Catholic, I’m one of six kids, my four sisters all used birth control. Mom never did but always complained that the church never allowed it. “They’re changing a lot of things, why don’t they change that?”

    A lot of the reason people stay is community. In rural West Virginia where I grew up Catholics were a minority and most immigrants were Catholic. The church provided an identity and a community, and on the whole, was a force for good.

  105. 105.

    Keith G

    February 6, 2016 at 11:29 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Exactly right.

    If a primary system was developed that started in a representative state, that first swing the bat would become even more important – both for the general public relations of the candidates but also for the follow-on fundraising.

    The fact that Iowa and New Hampshire are smaller, and quirkier electorates allows for non establishment candidates to create more noise and gain more traction relative to the institutional favorites.

    I am betting that many folks here who want a change were quite happy with the results of the small and quirky and non-representative Iowa caucuses in 2008 which allowed an insurgent candidate to clobber an establishment favorite.

    Ohio is often mentioned as a representative state. In 2008, Clinton beat Obama by 200,000 votes and that’s after Obama had already shown himself to be a very vital candidate. Imagine how the story might have unfolded had Ohio been the first contest.

  106. 106.

    Suzanne

    February 6, 2016 at 11:29 am

    @magurakurin: I think the states should rotate. Why should shitholes and backwaters get to go first every time?

  107. 107.

    Frankensteinbeck

    February 6, 2016 at 11:31 am

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel:
    The N-word. If he calls Obama that on a national stage, his primary poll numbers will go through the roof. By now, he must know it. The question is whether he’s saving it for a rainy day, or has some tiny shred of decency left.

    @Baud:
    As a Baudist, I will be voting for Hillary because Baud has already won… my heart.

  108. 108.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 11:31 am

    @Keith G: I want to change regardless of a particular result.

    The only hindrance for me is that figuring out a better way is hard.

  109. 109.

    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)

    February 6, 2016 at 11:32 am

    @OldDave:
    There does seem to have been a string of these recently, stories of deaths for people who died years ago. I wonder what drives that and if there is a reason for the number recently or its just a coincidence.

    BTW are you the same “OldDave” from uscho?

  110. 110.

    Amir Khalid

    February 6, 2016 at 11:37 am

    @Baud:
    Technically. If enough nonwhite voters stay home, and enough white voters vote Republican. But won’t a campaign message targeted explicitly to white people put off a lot of liberal white voters, who might then turn to a candidate such as you?

    PS: I wish I were American, so I could vote for you.

  111. 111.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    February 6, 2016 at 11:41 am

    @Germy: The GOP Establishment knows they can’t win if they don’t win Florida. So they’re desperate for JEB? or Marco to win. Even though they’re apparently hated in Florida. They don’t see any other way.

    The next few weeks should be interesting. The Teabagger candidates are all so damaged, and they all know this is their chance, that the knives and shrapnel flying should take almost all of them out…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  112. 112.

    Cacti

    February 6, 2016 at 11:42 am

    @Keith G:

    Fair points.

    The one state at a time approach until Super Tuesday has its limits, regardless of what States are chosen.

    A more accurate gauge of a candidate’s national support would be to open with several States at one time, representing all of the different regions of the country. Something like: Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada, all at once, and throw in a mid-Atlantic and Pacific coast state too.

  113. 113.

    cmorenc

    February 6, 2016 at 11:42 am

    @satby:

    I don’t agree with the Church on almost anything, but their stance is internally consistent at least.

    Consistency can be an overrated virtue – consider that young drug company Martin Shkreli (who raised the price of a vital drug his company had purchased ownership of by 4000%) is relentlessly consistent in practicing the principles of Ayn Rand.

  114. 114.

    delk

    February 6, 2016 at 11:42 am

    @satby: We’d wake up and change the station from Wally Phillips.

    I think Bob Sirott is the only one of those guys either alive or working.

  115. 115.

    Amir Khalid

    February 6, 2016 at 11:43 am

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
    These old stories, for whatever reason, bubbled up to the top of some news sites’ most-read list. At least, that’s where I noticed some of them.

  116. 116.

    Honus

    February 6, 2016 at 11:44 am

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel: and Glenn was Ted Williams wing man in Korea.

    Good luck Mr Gorsky.

  117. 117.

    WereBear

    February 6, 2016 at 11:45 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: But I don’t miss the nuns, I don’t miss the beatings, I don’t miss seeing my classmates brutalized…

    Most of the ex-Catholics I know had the same experience. For every child they terrorized into compliance, I hope they lost ten.

  118. 118.

    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)

    February 6, 2016 at 11:55 am

    @WereBear:
    George Carlin:
    The church part and the neighborhood part were typical but the school was not. It wasn’t one of those old fashioned parish kinda prison schools with a lot of corporal punishment and Sister Mary Discipline with the steel ruler, right? (SMACK!) OOOWWWWW! MY HAND! AAAAUGGH! And you’d fall two years behind in penmanship, right? “Well, he’s behind in penmanship, Mrs. Carlin. I don’t know why.” He’s crippled. He’s trying to learn to write with his left hand.

    We didn’t have that. We got..somehow we got lucky, . . . It was nice; like I say, a lot of classroom freedom…in fact there was so much freedom that by eighth grade, many of us had lost the faith.

  119. 119.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 6, 2016 at 11:56 am

    Olivia Nunzi @ Olivianuzzi
    Jeb! refers to Jeb Jr. as “2.0”

    Richard M. Nixon ‏@ dick_nixon 24m24 minutes ago
    Richard M. Nixon Retweeted Olivia Nuzzi
    He is like one of those explorers who vanished into the Congo in 1875 and emerged in 1920 to see motorcars.

  120. 120.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 11:57 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    : I wish I were American, so I could vote for you.

    I wish voter fraud were a real thing, so you could vote for me.

  121. 121.

    Kropadope

    February 6, 2016 at 11:58 am

    When I called the media herd animals, like Prof. Krugman does, someone here called me anti-Semitic. I still haven’t figured that one out yet.

  122. 122.

    Keith G

    February 6, 2016 at 11:58 am

    @Cacti: Starting with several states at once would necessarily handicap the lesser known and lesser connected candidates. Having to cover exponentially greater travel and lodging cost as well as more media spending (because a candidate can only be physically in one place at one time) will cause money to become even a greater factor in the very first contest of a primary season.

    I see a dump truck full of ways that the fix ends up being worse than the original problem.

  123. 123.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 11:59 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Yes, or the C-word for Hillary.

  124. 124.

    tallpete

    February 6, 2016 at 11:59 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Or it could serve as a reminder that the system is a mess and hopeless which discourages participation.

    The value of retail politics has eroded with today’s 24 hour media. The argument that the current system allows less well funded candidates a chance to win is not as strong as it was pre-interwebs.

    The country should be divided into 4 or 5 regions. One state from each region (randomly assigned each cycle) is included in first date. A second state in each region is the following week, etc. for 4 weeks. Start in April not Jan.

    How to enforce this for rogue states that insist they’re special (IA, NH) and deserve outsized influence on our politics (bloated Ag subsidies)? Both parties penalize noncompliant states by severely reducing their delegates. Also candidates pledge not to visit/place ads in these states.

  125. 125.

    WereBear

    February 6, 2016 at 12:00 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): I will never forget the interview with Peter O’Toole where he was explaining how he lost his Catholic faith:

    “See how my hands are different? This is is all crooked, I gesture with the other, it’s a swan…”

    “What happened?”

    “The crippled one is the one the nuns hit with a ruler…”

  126. 126.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 12:01 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel:

    Citizens United Not Timid.

  127. 127.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 12:02 pm

    @Honus:

    I knew that, but had completely forgotten. Thanks for the reminder!

  128. 128.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 12:02 pm

    Balloon Juice should hold the first primary.

  129. 129.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    @Baud:

    Yup.

    That’s how he appeals to Fine Upstanding College Kids.

  130. 130.

    Cacti

    February 6, 2016 at 12:08 pm

    @Kropadope:

    When I called the media herd animals, like Prof. Krugman does, someone here called me anti-Semitic. I still haven’t figured that one out yet.

    Link?

  131. 131.

    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)

    February 6, 2016 at 12:12 pm

    @WereBear:
    I grew up in a very Catholic neighborhood and most of my friends went to St. Patrick’s. There were two things I found astounding, their tails of cruelty in the classroom and how obnoxious a few of them were about my Methodist upbringing. The positive I could take out of that second one later in life was that it taught me exactly what it means to be a minority religion in a place & why we need to be aware of what that is.

    BTW – people here are old enough to remember Eugene McCarthy. as a young boy I remember attending a neighborhood meeting while he was running for US Senate. He assumed he knew his audience and said something about “the natural superiority of Catholics”. I never did campaign work for the guy again, his turn to the dark side later in life did not surprise me he was an asshole in cheap clothing.

  132. 132.

    WereBear

    February 6, 2016 at 12:14 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Criminy! I never did like him. McGovern did some foolish things but I always felt his heart was in the right place.

  133. 133.

    Just One More Canuck

    February 6, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    @Suzanne: which one’s the shithole and which one is the backwater?

  134. 134.

    Frankensteinbeck

    February 6, 2016 at 12:16 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel:
    That’s a good point. He hasn’t used ‘fag’ or ‘bitch’ or specifically called Hillary a lesbian yet. There are still rich seams of bigotry he can mine before he gets to the one his audience is panting for. An entertainer always leaves them wanting more, right?

  135. 135.

    Cacti

    February 6, 2016 at 12:17 pm

    @WereBear:

    Criminy! I never did like him. McGovern did some foolish things but I always felt his heart was in the right place.

    McGovern taught us the abiding lesson that it is better lose pure than to win imperfectly.

    Noble failure forever!

  136. 136.

    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)

    February 6, 2016 at 12:17 pm

    What do people here think of a Clinton/Sanders – Sanders/Clinton ticket? IIRC Vt has a dem governor so I assume we would not lose a seat there. Could both sides be satisfied with that no matter which slot their favorite was in?

  137. 137.

    Kropadope

    February 6, 2016 at 12:18 pm

    @Cacti: Found it!!! Not that I would ever want to do anything for you.

    It’s all coming back to me now. The accusation came from cokane. BobS had some conjecture that cokane was thinking about vermin. What I hadn’t seen before, though, was cokane’s stretch of an explanation, something about herd->all act together->kropadope hates Jews and/or Palestinians. I dunno, now that I’ve seen the explanation, I still don’t get it.

  138. 138.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 12:19 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):

    Clinton would never take Veep, and I doubt Sanders would either. In any event, they would not work well together.

  139. 139.

    Cacti

    February 6, 2016 at 12:22 pm

    @Kropadope:

    Found it!!! Not that I would ever want to do anything for you.

    And yet you did. What a peach you are. ;-)

  140. 140.

    Kropadope

    February 6, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    @Baud: Seconded. And thirded, if I’m allowed to do that,

  141. 141.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 6, 2016 at 12:24 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): I think if the Sanders movement has any life beyond this primary, he would want/need to be separate from any Dem White House.

    And to be honest, I think he would be a drag on a national ticket

  142. 142.

    Frankensteinbeck

    February 6, 2016 at 12:26 pm

    @Kropadope:
    Okay, I figured it out, although it took some squinting and looking at it from weird angles. The idea wasn’t that you were being antisemitic, but that you were treating the media just like antisemites treat Jews. The poor media. Shame on you for being so mean to a helpless, oppressed minority. Forced into their Villages, terrified that their garden parties could be raided by members of the government at any time!

  143. 143.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 6, 2016 at 12:27 pm

    Also, I find this interesting , but I admit this Hohmann guy and I are both reading too much into it

    James Hohmann ‏@ jameshohmann 4m4 minutes ago
    Both times Christie has ripped into Obama, Mass Gov. Charlie Baker put his hands in his pockets & looked down at his shoes awkwardly.

  144. 144.

    Baud

    February 6, 2016 at 12:31 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The one benefit is that each would be assassination insurance for the other.

  145. 145.

    Kropadope

    February 6, 2016 at 12:33 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The poor media. Shame on you for being so mean to a helpless, oppressed minority. Forced into their Villages, terrified that their garden parties could be raided by members of the government at any time!

    Hey, they bowed and scraped so hard to get those members of the government to show up.

  146. 146.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 6, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: may be be reading too much into it

  147. 147.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 12:37 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):

    Given the ages they would be at the end of just one term (73 for Hillary, 79 for Bernie), I would greatly prefer a younger VP. I’m not being ageist, but it is just pure fact that even the smartest, fittest, and healthiest people are going to experience some decline by the time they hit their 70s, and the job of the presidency is quite amazingly stressful.

  148. 148.

    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)

    February 6, 2016 at 12:39 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I absolutely argee with your first point and disagree with your second.

    It was just a thought I had to test the bepth of feelings

  149. 149.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 6, 2016 at 12:39 pm

    Picking the first perfect state.

  150. 150.

    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)

    February 6, 2016 at 12:40 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    He gets off on it & was [playing pocket pool?

  151. 151.

    Keith G

    February 6, 2016 at 12:50 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Yeah, having the Democratic Party of the state of Illinois in charge of the first primary contest. What could go wrong with that?

    Anyway, for things to change would require a massive effort on the part of the national leadership of the Democratic Party, & I don’t see that happening. Also cooperation would be necessary from the states. Don’t see that happening either.

  152. 152.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 6, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel: Beyond that, we need to be thinking about building future D leaders.

  153. 153.

    J R in WV

    February 6, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Thanks! That’s really good news, and will almost certainly be overturned by Republican judges at the appeals levels. “We can’t cancel a bad election with no time to organize a good election, can we? Of course not!”

    Wow! I see I am wrong, it was an appeals panel that made the decision.

  154. 154.

    satby

    February 6, 2016 at 1:48 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: the old rhythm method was bullshit. The new methods use cervical mucus and basal temperature to determine ovulation, allowing people to abstain in a targeted way the most fertile days. Much more accurate, and the same methodology used (in reverse) to encourage pregnancy in people who struggle to conceive.

    Now, I am an advocate of any contraception that a woman is comfortable with and will work, so artificial contraception is fine by me because not everyone is as motivated. But again, this is a method that is sanctioned by the Church and can be effective, and in third world countries is available at no charge to women who can’t afford hormone based contraception. I think the bigger bone to pick is the Church’s antiabortion stance when a pregnancy is known to be defective, such as an ectopic pregnancy. That’s unconscionable.

  155. 155.

    PaulW

    February 6, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    In lieu of another drinking game, I came up with fresh bumper stickers for the candidates…

    http://noticeatrend.blogspot.com/2016/02/honest-bumper-stickers-2016-plan-9-from.html

  156. 156.

    Heliopause

    February 6, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    Is this really any way to officially start a national competition with so much depending on the outcome?

    Why not? The last two winners of Iowa on the GOP side got nowhere near the nomination, the last winner on the Dem side was a black man named Hussein who then became President. So try as it might Iowa hasn’t managed to shove a far-right hog farmer down our collective throats yet. It doesn’t seem to matter that they get to go first.

    New Hampshire tends to be won by the more centristy candidate on either side, though this year’s polling is a little wacky. So if moderation is your bag then it makes sense for New Hampshire to go early as well.

    Personally I’d like to see Guam or somebody like that go first.

  157. 157.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    February 6, 2016 at 2:07 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):

    What do people here think of a Clinton/Sanders – Sanders/Clinton ticket?

    I don’t like it. Bernie should stay in the Senate – he’d do much better there than being Consoler in Chief and the person sent to state funerals, or HRC’s Hatchet Man (where I don’t think he’d be a good fit at all).

    HRC needs someone younger to join her on the ticket. Team D needs to increase the national visibility of its bench. I don’t know if the Castro Brothers are the right players at this time, but we need more than 65-80 year old people being the national face of the party.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  158. 158.

    Germy

    February 6, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I agree. Julian Castro.

  159. 159.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 6, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: @Germy: I think the Castros have high upside potential but real risk in those light resumes.

    tough choice, glad Im just some rando on the internet

  160. 160.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Absolutely. That’s why I’m keeping an eye on, for instance, the Castro brothers and Kirsten Gillibrand.

    From what I’ve seen, any of them would be a good choice. I’m sure there are others.

  161. 161.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @satby:

    the old rhythm method was bullshit

    There was a good reason it was known as “Vatican r0ulette.”

    Also, FYWP

  162. 162.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    February 6, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bill Richardson is a cautionary tale, I think. Ethnic, great resume in lots of executive positions, but he never caught on nationally. Why? Was he simply ahead of his time? Did Obama steal his thunder? Did he not have a compelling domestic message? I don’t recall. I hope the Castro Brothers are looking at Richardson’s experience in running for national office and are learning some lessons, if that’s what they want to do with their future.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  163. 163.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 6, 2016 at 2:40 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: back at my old bloggy hangout (Eschaton) A lot of people said Richardson was blue-doggy and untrustworthy on the environment, and wasn’t there a problem with a lack of respect for women? with his words and his hands? those first are hearsay, the second a vague memory

  164. 164.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 6, 2016 at 2:54 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): I think the surprising, dramatic death of David Bowie (who had arranged to use it as an occasion for art), and the deaths of several other prominent rock-music figures around the same time, triggered this wave. People got in a mood of noticing that a lot of famous people were dying, and in the process they noticed a bunch who had actually died years earlier.

  165. 165.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 6, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel: If Clinton is nominated, it won’t be Gillibrand. They’re both from New York.

  166. 166.

    Brachiator

    February 6, 2016 at 3:26 pm

    Is this really the best we can do?

    Yep.

    Buy some peanuts and enjoy the circus.

  167. 167.

    Brachiator

    February 6, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):

    There does seem to have been a string of these recently, stories of deaths for people who died years ago. I wonder what drives that and if there is a reason for the number recently or its just a coincidence.

    Internet social media stupidity.

    Someone famous dies. People search for other celebrity deaths. They either do not notice or the result does not clearly include the date of death. The searcher is hot to post the “breaking news” of the celebrity death. Bam. Stupidity results.

    And yes, I posted a reaction to the “death” of Bob Denver without checking the link for details, and added to the dumbth with my own dumbthness.

    On politics:

    What do people here think of a Clinton/Sanders – Sanders/Clinton ticket?

    I don’t see the long term value in this. And both Clinton and Sanders are East Coasters, making for a narrow ticket.

  168. 168.

    Ruckus

    February 6, 2016 at 4:13 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Don’t remember the specifics but the general gist you have is the same as me. As soon as his name started to rise to the top, so did the issues. The fact that he basically disappeared after that was a telling sign.

  169. 169.

    Bitter Scribe

    February 6, 2016 at 4:24 pm

    No Fiorina? Is she going to debate herself on the undercard?

  170. 170.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 4:47 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Oh, I wasn’t thinking Clinton-Gillibrand. I was thinking either Clinton-Castro or Sanders-Gillibrand.

  171. 171.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    February 6, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Only half?

    More to the point, which half?

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