Were these two separated at birth or what?
First spot, Bern Your Enthusiasm, was every bit as brilliant as the title promised:
Second sketch featured Bernie himself:
Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign continues its deft outreach to the youngs.
Reader Interactions
243Comments
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WarMunchkin
I chuckled.
WereBear
Scolding. Not a great outreach program.
amk
Bernie Sanders addressed his sexist supporters, the so-called “Bernie Bros,” in an interview with Jake Tapper on Sunday morning. “I have heard about it,” he said. “It’s disgusting. Look we don’t want that crap.” He added that the campaign doesn’t want anybody who is supporting him that does “sexist things.”
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@WereBear: ‘Scolding’. I wonder how the Times would have described it if it were Bill Clinton or Bernie Sanders saying something similar.
MazeDancer
As a long-time and grateful admirer of Ms. Steinem, I can only cringe. That was a mistake.
And while Secretary Albright has been using that line for a quite some time, and though true it may be, scolding does not invite anyone to come join your efforts.
Lecturing and telling them how wrong they are only increases their dislike. So hoping Hillary finds some non tone-deaf advisors.
Fortunately, Little Marco Shattered At Last is grabbing the news cycle. Though, alas, that also drowns out CNN telling Cruz he’s a stone cold liar.
Gimlet
@WarMunchkin: ” “There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help each other!” – Mrs. Clinton laughed”
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-clinton-millennial-women-20160203-story.html
In Iowa this week, women 29 and younger voted for Clinton’s challenger, Sen. Bernie Sanders, by a stunning margin of roughly 6 to 1, much as young men did.
a sharp contrast to Clinton’s dominance among women closer to her own age.
The problem is not rejection of feminism – surveys suggest millennial women are the most staunchly feminist group of voters in America. They want to see a woman in the White House. Just not necessarily this woman.
“I am excited for a future in which we will have a female president, but I don’t think Hillary is that person for this generation,” said Rachael Jennings, 28, a high school teacher in Dublin, N.H. The same sentiment was echoed over and over in interviews with younger female voters here and in Iowa.
“There is this assumption that if you are a woman, you should support Hillary Clinton because she is a woman,” Renzelman said. “But I feel like Bernie is going to support women in the same way.”
OzarkHillbilly
@WarMunchkin: I read that. I almost wrote Bernie a $200 check on the basis of that statement alone.
Hillary Rettig
@WarMunchkin: good catch!
@amk: maybe someone can run that clip for HRC so she knows how to behave when a campaigner does something stupid. (See WarMunchkin’s catch.)
Betty Cracker
I agree the scolding from surrogates is a bad tactic. HRC herself handled it better when asked directly (something along the lines of, “I’m for them even if they aren’t for me.”).
That said, if Clinton gets the nomination, I’m not worried about her failing to get support from other women. We’ve never had a female at the top of a major party ticket. It’s not reason enough on its own to pick a particular nominee in a primary, but it’ll be a BFD nonetheless if she wins, at least for Democrats.
Hillary Rettig
@MazeDancer: The New Yorker in me is hoping for Sanders versus Christie. New Jersey’s going down!
Betty Cracker
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Huh. Food for thought, that.
WereBear
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: I would have still considered it scolding no matter what sex of older person would be condescending to a younger one.
Hillary Rettig
@Betty Cracker: Well if Sanders gets the nomination I hope the Clinton supporters will do the same.
bystander
More supremely unfunny clips from SNL.
Keith P.
I’ve been binging Curb on Amazon Prime (I love Prime Video) for the past few weeks, along with Always Sunny, so this one just hit me right in the face. Jay Pharoah’s JB Smooth was perfect, but what makes it is the music. That soundtrack makes EVERYTHING seem like an episode of Curb.
Iowa Old Lady
@Hillary Rettig: I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Clinton supporter say they wouldn’t support Sanders if he’s the nominee. Usually they’re worried about electability or effectiveness, so they’re thinking about the consequences of an R in office.
Hillary Rettig
@Keith P.: plus, many of us have been dyin’ for more Curb for a zillion years, so this provides a little fix.
Emma
@Hillary Rettig: I know anecdote is not data but so far the only ones I’ve encountered throwing that kind of tantrum have been Bernie supporters. I guess those older, less hip but more experienced realize what’s at stake.
Mr. Twister
@Hillary Rettig: I lurk on a lot of blogs and I ALWAYS see Hillary supporters say they would vote for Bernie. Alas, I don’t see Bernie supporters say they would vote for Hillary with the same frequency. Just an observation.
beltane
@MazeDancer: Ms. Steinem’s comment did manage to get my 76 year old mother’s attention. Seems that Mom isn’t overly fond of either Hillary or Ms.Steinem, both of whom she describes as being “stuck up WASPs”. Madeline Albright’s special place in hell is special because it is so large. I look out for the interests of my own vagina, which may not be the same as the interests of Carly Fiorina’s vagina or the vagina of millions of other women of differing viewpoints.
amk
@Hillary Rettig:
It’s a good and sane moment. I am not about to spoil it.
Keith P.
@Hillary Rettig: Reminds me of Larry finally giving us a Seinfeld reunion…built up as a season of Curb, complete with cussing and dirty jokes (Funkhouser!). Plus, did it seem like that Curb skit was actually written by Larry David? The whole 2% and 5 votes getting tied together seems a bit more complex than a standard SNL skit.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
I have not seen these clips yet, I recorded the show so I could skip the awful stuff. I will have plenty of time later to see it. I have heard a lot of people online raving about it so thats good.
I also understand there is some sort of sportsball contest today at Levi stadium. This causes me to wonder if they will be serving Manischewitz and matzos.
beltane
@Mr. Twister: Because I expect Hillary will be the nominee and I will vote for whoever the nominee is, I haven’t been paying close attention this cycle.It took me a long time to get over my rancor at Hillary supporters in 2008 and I really don’t want the headache again. There was a lot of talk on both sides in 2008 of one group not supporting the other in the general. It was just talk. I do wish we had started with a bigger filed because it does seem as though Democratic voters wanted a competitive primary.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Hillary Rettig:
Sanders vs just about anybody results in near Mondale electoral vote totals. We’d struggle to hold Illinois and California.
Just so you know.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yeah, I miss that show. At the risk of starting a whole new flame war, I think Curb showed us who was the Lennon and who the McCartney of the David/Seinfeld relationship.
(Jerry Seinfeld grated on my nerves even when I watched the show and before I knew who Larry David was)
FlipYrWhig
@WereBear: Um, the entire Bernie Sanders campaign is based on scolding.
BruceFromOhio
OK, these made me laugh.
Whacking at each other’s supporters is a lose/lose move. I’d remind Ms Steinem that a President Clinton OR a President Sanders is a far Gaia-damned better circumstance than the lunacy and destruction of a President drawn from the Klown Kar Kavalcade Parade of Fail. “You are voting for the man because you are a man” is just as ridiculous as “Vote for the woman because you are a woman,” especially when there are so many more purposeful, useful and defining elements each Democratic candidate brings to the table.
Gaia bless it, we get them both in the general, P/VP, and either way, we’re all better off for it.
gene108
@Gimlet:
It ain’t complicated.
An 18 year old figures to have 60+ years left of living to do or 15 more Presidential elections to get a woman in as President.
A 60 year old woman figures to have maybe 18 years left to live, on average, and Hillary maybe the best shot in her lifetime to elect a woman as President.
Starfish
@bystander: Larry David’s humor is not my favorite.
Hillary Rettig
Hey folks for the record I haven’t seen or heard a single Bernie voter say they would sit out if he’s not the candidate. I’m not saying those people don’t exist, but the Clintonites and media are treating this like a prevalent problem when it’s absolutely not. I consider it another expression of contempt for Sanders’s voters, and the young ones in particular.
TaMara (BHF)
@Iowa Old Lady: Did you see my note last night?
C.V. Danes
Whenever I hear Clinton declare that she’s not an establishment candidate, I remember who she supported in the last NY govenor’s race: Andrew Cuomo.
This when we had a viable female candidate who could have been the first woman governor of NY, and who went on to win over a third of the vote. So call me a skeptic when Hillary plays the ‘first women’ card when she herself couldn’t be bothered to support the first woman govenor for NY.
satby
Dukakis, McGovern, Mondale. Democrats always know how to make the “perfect” be the enemy of the “good enough”.
I’ve seen this movie too many times.
Marc
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Well, that settles it then. Next up: why Trump will drop out before the first primary, and why a black man will never be elected as President.
Baud
@Hillary Rettig:
Your kidding, right? Salon ran a weekly feature about sitting out the election if Hillary gets the nomination. You can dispute how prevalent that sentiment is, but it does exist in sufficient numbers for a rag to publish it
schrodinger's cat
All this front page fangirling for Sanders is really getting old.
Hillary Rettig
@Keith P.: i liked the guy doing the Funkhauser imitation. Must be hard as hell on one’s vocal chords.
satby
@Hillary Rettig: Sigh. My offline friend just said that to me on the phone 5 minutes ago. She hates Bill Clinton, so she won’t vote for Hillary, so she says.
Baud
@gene108: I think this is right.
Iowa Old Lady
@TaMara (BHF): I did, thank you. I emailed you. At least, I hope I did.
Baud
@BruceFromOhio:
I would be shocked to hear that Steinem wouldn’t support Bernie if he won the nomination.
schrodinger's cat
@Starfish: The Titanic skit was lame. I liked the Iowa caucus one.
Hillary Rettig
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: We’ll see. Let’s discuss again in nine months.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hillary Rettig: you wanna go back to the thread yesterday and address your assertion that HRC changed her position on HCR according to who “hired” her? I’ll give you the short version: you charged that Clinton came out against single payer because of corruption. I don’t remember her ever advocating single payer. If I’m wrong, it’s up to you to back up your accusation with some evidence.
WaterGirl
@MazeDancer: Cringe-worthy, indeed.
Vote for Hillary because she’s female, not on her merits? Ugh. That’s way too close to McCain thinking we would vote for the Palin-creature because she has a vagina. Hillary is still tone deaf. :: sigh ::
beltane
@satby: I would vote for Joe Lieberman over any of the nutjobs I saw last night.
FlipYrWhig
@Hillary Rettig: Good thing nobody expresses contempt for Hillary Clinton or her voters! That would be pretty mean.
AliceBlue
@Baud:
There’s an article on Salon this morning crowing about how it’s all over. Hillary is “finished.” Geez, can’t we at least go through the primary process before all the Hillary supporters get carted off to the Bernie re-education camps?
Princess
@Hillary Rettig: If you think a Clinton supporter would end up voting for Kasich or Christie, far a less Rubio or Trump or Cruz in the general, you have completely lost the plot and are living in some kind of political bizarro world.
ETA: and if you want to find Sanders supporters who say they won’t support Clinton if she wins, all you have to do is read Balloon Juice comment threads. Frankly I suspect the ones who say that are actually GOP trolls. But there you are.
Baud
@AliceBlue:
That’s different to me than advocating throwing an election if your preferred candidate doesn’t get the nomination.
Hillary Rettig
@Baud: “for a rag to publish it ” that might be your problem right there. I’m just saying I haven’t seen it at all. I hope to hell I’m right; it would be a disgrace if people stayed home.
Baud
@Princess:
Some fraction will, just as some fraction of Berniebros will.
Chyron HR
@Hillary Rettig:
That’s okay, every time you go “tee hee I’m impartial” with regards to the 2016 primaries it’s an expression of contempt for everyone with a functioning brain.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@AliceBlue: That piece was by Bill Curry. I didn’t read it because of the headline and by-line, but if memory serves, Bill Curry thinks every blip on his radar is a sign of the people finally rising up.
schrodinger's cat
@Hillary Rettig: Read the comments to your own front page posts and you will see plenty of it.
Hillary Rettig
@Princess: try to respond to what I actually wrote. I know that’s less exciting but… I never said Clinton supporters would support the GOP and I don’t believe they would for a second.
Starfish
@schrodinger’s cat: I liked the Iowa caucus one more than the other one too. After a few episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm, I just really did not enjoy Larry David’s humor.
dedc79
@schrodinger’s cat:
That seems kind of, well, sexist.
Also, what exactly is the problem with having a Sanders supporter on the front page? Why does it bother you so much? This is a Dem blog and close to half of Dems prefer Sanders. Why can’t that be reflected here?
You can always skip these posts and stick to the Ann Laurie posts.
gene108
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
How does Bernie get Democrats to go along with single-payer, if he becomes President?
Nancy Pelosi has stated she will not have House Dems running on a platform to raise taxes. And Nancy is pretty liberal.
Do Bernie supporters then try to primary incumbent Democrats, with more liberal candidates, who will be on board with Preisdent Bernie’s agenda?
I do not get Bernie’s strategy, with respect to the Democratic Party, should he become the head of the party.
schrodinger's cat
@dedc79: Didn’t know that HR needed backup. Would fanpersoning be better?
Is any criticism of Bernie or his supporters forbidden now? I was called Glenn Beck and a Republican astroturfer for questioning the math of the One True Progressive.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Marc:
Thirty state governments are locked into Conservative control. The SCOTUS is dominated by a 5 member GOP/Conservative bloc. The Senate is run by Republicans/Conservatives and the craziest caucus of the GOP runs the House to the extent that they ran out a GOP speaker because he wasn’t crazy enough.
You’re telling me that a non-Democrat that self-identifies as socialist secular Jew who is about a thousand years old actually creates an electoral vote majority?
OzarkHillbilly
@beltane: I would shoot myself before voting for Lieberman.
Hillary Rettig
@dedc79: thank you! not to mention that reporting on political SNL episodes (and SNL in general) is a long tradition in these parts.
Kay
I think she should localize her campaign more. If she’s in NH she should bring up only NH Democrats, preferably people like mayors and city councils or county commissioners( or whatever leg bodies they have up there- I don’t know).
No Madeleine Albright and Booker. No famous national people whatsoever. There will be time for those people in the general and she needs to look plugged in to the point where she could be running for school board.
She doesn’t need national “validators”. Obama did, and it worked for him because he was the insurgent. She needs the opposite approach. She needs “regular people” validators.
Princess
@Hillary Rettig: Staying home is supporting the Republicans, sweetheart. I know it’s complicated.
Hillary Rettig
Signing off now. Hope everyone has a terrific day, and whichever spheroid-hurling team you’re rooting for wins!
satby
@beltane: That’s the main thing. I don’t like all the infighting because we should be united against the common enemy, and what was on display last night was a bunch of enemies. The Republicans are dangerous for this country and the world, but we have people having pitched battles over which of two candidates that voted together 93% of the time is more pure. UGH
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hillary Rettig: Just a quick post while you’re googling the evidence to back up that single payer thing, right?
dedc79
@schrodinger’s cat: I’m sure she doesn’t. Your comment struck me as of a kind with the Albright/Steinem comments. Women who support Sanders are traitors or dupes. You demean her as some kind of teenage girl groupie, not to be taken seriously.
I’m a male, Clinton supporter FWIW. It doesn’t bother me one bit that Sanders is in this race, pushing his issues.
I think the Democratic Party is a healthier, stronger party, when we have nomination by vote and debate rather than by appointment.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@gene108:
It’s the Daily Kos/Hamsherite candidacy.
They did a great job of negative propaganda to help create an atmosphere to crush those 50-state strategy Blue Dogs that had been a big part of what Dean wanted.
“More purity” was never going to work.
Neither was “heightening the contradictions” going to create a wave.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hillary Rettig: I sense a pattern developing….
Gimlet
If things continue to go badly for Hillary, the Dem establishment will offer up Biden or another choice because Bernie is “unelectable” (not to mention a threat with his commie ideology).
gene108
@Hillary Rettig:
From my anecdotal experience there are a large subset of people, who feel both Party’s suck.
They believe Bernie is an Independent, even though he is running for the Democratic nominee, and therefore different.
And will sit home, if Bernie is not the nominee.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gimlet: Didn’t you say the other day that you were confident President Sanders would be willing and able to play some “hardball” that Obama can’t or won’t? Could you elaborate?
Vhh
@Iowa Old Lady: you bet. I remember 1968, 1972, 2000 when the Professional Left (aka Socialist wannabes) deserted decent electable Dems giving us 2x Tricky Dick and bank- and democracy-breaking W. Bernie is a nice old NYC/New England Socialist who risks getting the bark torn off him by the ratfkng RWNJ. Even if he wins, Congress will give him nada and then he’ll get too old anyhow. And having lived for over 14 yrs in the USSR, Japan, France, Australia (soon will be trying Germany) with their varying degrees of Socialism and generally whacking higher taxes, I can see that introducing more of the useful Socialist features into the USA will require more slow careful work than scolding absolutist arguments.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat:
By mclaren. Not sure it counts. Just saying.
beltane
@OzarkHillbilly: I might shoot myself afterward, but the lesser of two evils is still less evil. If any of the men I saw last night happen to win in November, it will be a catastrophe for the country and the world. In my way of looking at things, “meh” is vastly superior to “Holy shit, we’re going down.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That whole “speaking fees” thing was totally about somebody else!
I don’t doubt Sanders hesitated to approve that, but he did. It would be nice to see him own it.
OzarkHillbilly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, so do I. It seems she actually has a life outside of this blog. Who’da thunk it?
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: Inconceivable.
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Mclaren was the most unhinged but not the only Bernie supporter who attacked me for merely questioning the numbers of Bernie’s college for all proposal.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Hillary Rettig:
Dave Weigel tweeted about being in a Manchester bar watching the Democratic town hall, watching a table of Berniebros harrassing a table of women Clinton supporters, telling them that it’s Bernie or bust. So, yeah, it’s a thing.
rk
@Hillary Rettig:
I’m a Hillary supporter. I was an Obama supporter who wasn’t a fan of Hillary and voted for Obama. I like Hillary. She was completely overshadowed by Obama last time, but this time her 8 yrs of experience really shows. I like Bernie, but his supporters are loathsome. They trash Hillary with republican talking points and that to me is unforgivable. She’s called dishonest, unlikeable etc etc. nonsense propagated by republicans and repeated by Bernie fans. It’s like if Obama was running for some office and his democratic opponents said that he was a Kenyan muslim,anti christ. Hillary fans maybe old, but Bernie supporters need to grow up! Having said that I like Bernie and he’d get my vote. But I’m not sure that Bernie fans would vote for Hillary (if internet comments are anything to go by).
Lolis
It seems like Bernie will endorse Hillary when he loses. They both have their lovefest moments where they say positive things about each other. No way Bernie wins. I do know a lot of people who don’t love Hillary Clinton, but most will come around and vote for her with enthusiasm once we are in the general.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Remember those FEMA camps that Obama was too lazy to build?
Da, tovarisch….
MomSense
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
This. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. If the economy holds fairly steady, this will be a foreign policy issues election and Sanders is obviously deficient. It’s embarrassing how little he knows and how uncomfortable he is discussing foreign policy. If the economy does take a hit because of the energy sector, Anericans will not react with “fuckit let’s all become socialist now”. When Anericans are anxious they become even more change averse. Nominating Sanders would be a massive blunder.
ETA if this is a foreign policy election, Sanders erases what should be a plus issue for us because he will not be able to convince Americans he is prepared to be a Commander in Chief. The candidate will have to frame the issues because the media will be running ISIS Zika infected anchor babies from Mexico for the three months prior to November.
C.V. Danes
@Kay: Well, I for one look forward to her coming to New York and explaining why she supported Andrew Cuomo over Zephyr Teachout, who could have been the first female govenor of NY. Where was Clinton and her feminist icons when Zephyr needed their help?
Baud
@C.V. Danes: Did Sanders support Zephyr?
Kay
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
You know, Democrats can do this, but it’s going to work about as well as it did in 2010 and 2014.
Hillary Clinton has strengths. She could make a decision to run on those, instead of her campaign getting what amounts to hurt feelings because she doesn’t get to to be the radical change agent while also being the trustworthy and competent “establishment” candidate. This effort by her campaign to take the upside of both positions without taking the downside of either isn’t going to work. I think they have too many strategists and not enough organizers.
It’s February. Decide what she is and run on that. They don’t need to keep telling women she’d be the first female President, either. They know that. I have no idea why they are explaining this to women. Just let it be.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@C.V. Danes:
Zephyr was never going to win. Weirdass fucking hippie name, and yes, the markets and what happens to invested capital do matter there.
Gimlet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I suspect that as a one term president on a mission, he would use the immense resources of an “incumbent” president to reward or punish politicians just as presidents once did during the election season.
I don’t know what he would actually do, as context would determine it and it’s just a guess on my part anyway. In my opinion Obama and Hillary are more image conscious and concerned about the post-presidency years.
schrodinger's cat
@rk: They also parrot the Republican attacks on Obama.
TaMara (BHF)
@Iowa Old Lady: Try again, I didn’t get it yet. whats4dinnersolutions (at) live (dot) com
Everyone else, I’m doing a Authors in our Midst post later this week. Email me if you want me to include you in the post. Otherwise, there will be a whole thread to pimp your works.
MomSense
@MomSense:
In a fear and foreign policy election I think Clinton’s confidence discussing economic and foreign policy issues in detail will be very reassuring to voters.
Josie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Funny. I was just thinking the same thing:
1. a supposedly non-partisan post, followed by
2. a cute little dig against Clinton at the end of the post, followed by
3. a few “who, me?” comments, followed by
4. “Signing off now. Have a nice day.”
randy khan
@Hillary Rettig:
Seriously? Did you read the comments on those articles? While there certainly were people saying that you need to support the Dem even if it’s not the candidate you want, those comment threads were filled with people saying him or nobody. (For all I know they’re still there – I’ve stopped reading the Salon campaign articles in part because of this.) Many of these same people are the ones who fill social media with stuff about how Clinton is a moderate Republican or how Sanders was marching for civil rights when Clinton was a 17-year old Goldwater Girl.
If somehow you’ve missed all of these people, either you’re not reading widely in the lefty blogosphere or you’re not paying attention. My personal guess is that nearly all of them will come home eventually if Clinton wins the nomination, but it’s worrisome nevertheless.
This is not a reason to choose Clinton over Sanders (or vice versa), as I am not in the habit of basing my votes on the behavior of people’s supporters, but it sure as heck is annoying.
C.V. Danes
@dedc79:
This.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gimlet: spell it out for me. Let’s stick with a less gauzy history: What could Obama have done, if he weren’t “image conscious” and focusing on cultivating the long and remunerative grass of the post presidency pastures (that is what you mean, right?)– what could he have done? How could he have rewarded or punished Blanche Lincoln or Ben Nelson?
OzarkHillbilly
@beltane: Well, Maybe I just don’t have as high a tolerance for pain as you do. A quick death seems preferable.
C.V. Danes
@Baud: I don’t know. But Sanders is not the one telling people that they should vote for him because of gender solidarity.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think “hurt feelings” is wrong– stunned, left gasping with “WTF?” is more accurate. and she’s being held to a frankly unrealistic (and shifting) comparison.
The coziness with Wall St is real, it is self-inflicted and frustrating and somewhat bewildering, but it’s not policy.
mistermix
Perhaps after a few more Sanders victories and some close calls in what should be gimme states, Clinton will re-tool her campaign to be a little more imaginative about how she appeals to voters, especially young voters.
But I guess some BernieBro on Twitter said something mean, so Hillary’s inability to reach out effectively to young voters doesn’t matter. I know that Hillary has it in her to do it, it just needs to start happening.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
FEMA camps…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@OzarkHillbilly: and yet she found time to answer posts that didn’t question her lazy, sloppy, self-righteous tendentiousness.
beltane
@Kay: I am quite nervous about November no matter who gets the nomination. Given our country’s crappy media and tradition of low voter turnout, only the most charismatic of Democratic politicians have won the presidency is recent history. Neither Hillary nor Bernie fit that description, and if Chrisitie or Kasich were to somehow win the GOP nomination we could be in for a world of hurt.
Gimlet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I doubt the most detailed explanation would persuade you.
It’s just an opinion. You don’t have to hold it as well.
beltane
@OzarkHillbilly: I have to stick it out for my children’s sake. Otherwise I would purchase a one-way ticket out of the country and not look back.
C.V. Danes
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Oh please! She won over a third of the vote despite the fact that Cuomo refused to debate her and the so-called liberal establishment decided to back Cuomo because of ‘electability,’ and who Cuomo promptly shafted once he got their endorsement.
So no, Teachout absolutely could have won New York.
Mr. Twister
@Gimlet: Are you shrooming ?
schrodinger's cat
@TaMara (BHF): Is blog pimping allowed too?
OzarkHillbilly
@Josie: Name me a person on this blog who has not done those exact same things and I will personally write up the recommendation for Sainthood and send it off to the Vatican.
beltane
@C.V. Danes: It’s perfectly OK for centrist candidates to support each other. It is just silly to pretend that gender solidarity trumps ideological solidarity.
WaterGirl
@FlipYrWhig: But Bernie isn’t scolding the people he’s talking to! He’s scolding the politicians who everyone would like to see
scoldedpunished!BruceFromOhio
@Josie:
I can’t claim to have read every Rettig post, but from her first few she’s been pretty clearly supporting Bernie Sanders in the primaries. Not sure where “supposedly non-partisan” came from. And to her modest credit, at least she says “outta here” before exiting. It’s also been my personal experience that FP’ers vary in willingness to engage in “prove me wrong” fencing in comments. YMMV.
debit
Will someone let me know when we get back to attacking the GOP instead of each other? Seriously, it feels like we’re heading down the same path that FDL took just before Christy left and things went utterly ape shit.
Josie
@OzarkHillbilly: You are probably right. For some inexplicable reason, I find it to be irritating at this point. Maybe it’s just me being easily irritated.
OzarkHillbilly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: See @OzarkHillbilly:
Hillary Rettig largely gives as good as she gets. So sorry she doesn’t measure up to your exacting standards of answering the same meaningless phrased slightly different questions asked in perpetuity until she admits defeat, but instead chooses to take her dog for a walk.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Jim, why does her campaign keep telling us she’d be the first woman President? Can they not give us that? That we know it?
It’s frustrating to me because I feel like they’re overthinking this. Bernie Sanders gets the radical change agent upside and all the downside that goes with that (which is considerable). Clinton gets the establishment upside and all the downside that goes with that. I feel like they’re madly scrambling to keep every option open which is very strategic and clever but it isn’t going to work. Let it go. Give him “radical” and get to work on her strengths.
Josie
@BruceFromOhio: See my reply to OzarkHillbilly.
Baud
@Kay: I agree.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debit: after South Carolina?
@OzarkHillbilly: @Josie: maybe I’m violating my own “it’s just a fucking blog” standard, but she’s a front-pager, not just another poster.
And I would ask her to back up her lazy shit if she were just another poster.
Iowa Old Lady
@TaMara (BHF): I resent with 4 instead of “for” in the address. Thank you for doing this.
WaterGirl
@TaMara (BHF): What a great idea that is, TaMara! Looking forward to that post.
Gelfling545
@C.V. Danes: you considered Teachout a viable candidate? I live in WNY & few had any idea who she was or that she was even considering running.
C.V. Danes
@beltane: So Clinton is a centrist, now?
In discussing this with my wife just now, who is also black, she finds Clinton’s argument that women should support her out of solidarity to be utter bullshit, for the same reason it was bullshit for blacks to support Obama merely because he’s black (her words, not mine).
This is a woman who is a feminist, has a master’s degree, and her own business as a professional photographer. I tend to listen to her opinions on these things.
WaterGirl
@schrodinger’s cat: We have so many published authors and many, many bloggers. I think it would be more interesting and more effective if blog pimping could be a separate post.
Otherwise we risk everybody being lost in the shuffle. My two cents.
BruceFromOhio
@Josie: This one? Works for me! =)
WaterGirl
@debit: Such a great comment. I wish one of our front pagers would post a thread saying exactly that. If BJ loses its collective shit on this, I will be one very sad puppy.
C.V. Danes
@Gelfling545: Not surprising, given the media blackout on her candidacy. And I have repeat the fact that she still won a third of the vote. Imagine what she would have done if Clinton would have supported her for the first female govenor of NY.
glory b
@Hillary Rettig: you have GOT to be lying, or have not seen any media in the last 2 months.
I have kids and two jobs and have see/heard this multiple times.
With that statement, I have to wonder how big a cave you’ve been living in.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@C.V. Danes:
A third of the party vote in the primary does not translate to “could have absolutely won”. From the southernmost Westchester line to the Canadian border she’d get thoroughly drubbed. To counter, she’d require pretty monolithic support in the city. Does she carry Staten Island, Queens or even Brooklyn?
Kay
@beltane:
I think it’s going to be a 2012-like grind.
2012 was like stacking bricks here. Not a joyful lark :)
We have a very active Clinton supporter. Just a great person. She was so sad when Clinton lost the primary in ’08 but she switched to Obama overnight and never mentioned it again. She organized a 4-county meet-up which I didn’t go to because I had a school meeting but the first thing I thought of was “she’s doing 4 counties together because she doesn’t have a big enough list to do one county”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: I can’t really argue with any of that. I guess experience and temperament make the gauzy romanticism of the Sanders movement off-putting to me. But I do think Clinton is held to a different standard than any other candidate. Because of Uncle Bernie Dumbledore’s Half-Baked Pie In the Sky, she’s now the candidate of “No, we can’t”. How many people talking about her Iraq vote long for Joe Biden to jump into the race? She’s held personally responsible for everything people didn’t like about her husband and Dems in the 90s (and see again, Joe Biden). Granted some of this last is self-inflicted because in ’08 they tried to waffle between “former Co-President” and “private citizen” depending on how X polled.
beltane
@C.V. Danes: Clinton has always been regarded as a centrist. This is neither a good thing or a bad thing, just an honest assessment. I, and most of the other women I know, find the argument for voting on the basis of gender solidarity to be patronizing and paternalistic no matter who is making it. I base my votes on what a candidate will do for me, not on what I am expected to do for them.
DCF
@C.V. Danes:
Agreed, without reservation….
It’s almost over for Hillary: This election is a mass insurrection against a rigged system
Sanders has ended the coronation and fired up the grass roots. Now Clinton’s electability argument is crumbling too
https://www.salon.com/2016/02/07/its_almost_over_for_hillary_this_election_is_a_mass_insurrection_against_a_rigged_system/
BruceFromOhio
@debit: I think that’s where then differs from now. While I’m pretty firm in my support of a Clinton candidacy, I have no problem filling in the bubble for President Sanders. While we may yip and bark at eachother’s supporters, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that either Dem is a Gaia-damned sight better than the alternatives. And I have a feeling that’s prevalent among Democrats.
As for anecdata about “(insert candidate) supporters were meanies to (insert other candidate> supporters” is irrelevant. What is relevant is how (insert candidate) supporters behave on election day in the voting booth. The firedogs and PUMA’s and other purists are less likely to be swayed, so ignore ’em and concentrate on every one else in the room. My $0.02
C.V. Danes
@WaterGirl: I believe Jung called this the narcissism of small differences.
Jade
@MazeDancer:
[@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: That is a groos mistatement of the current polls. Bernie does better than Hillary against most Rebs.
Have you been reading the articles in the Des Moines Register about how Hillary cheated to be close? When the head of the Democratic Party in Iowa has license plates that say HRC2016 you know Hillary was going to win by any means necessary. After reading the precinct accounts she did just that.
C.V. Danes
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: My point is that she got a third of the vote while being snubbed as an outsider candidate. Maybe she would have done much better if we had had a real debate instead of the so-called liberal establishment holding their noses and supporting Cuomo because of, you know, ‘electability.’
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I agree with you on Biden, which I think we have talked about. I have no idea how he turned into the Friend of the Workingman, other than he’s white and from Pennsylvania and rides the Amtrack or whatever. His really long career doesn’t support that at all.
Here’s my thing, though. If she’s held to a different standard than that is something that is. Unfairness exists. Pointing it out is for op-eds and think pieces, not her campaign. There will be tons of discussion of her gender. She can just let that happen. It will.
I don’t speak for all women but I got the shock of recognition when Sanders complimented Kerry on his work as Sec of State while he’s standing next to another Sec of State from the same Party. That happens to women at work, or it happens to me. They aren’t even given recognition for jobs they have done by men who haven’t done those jobs. I immediately sympathized with her. It’s hard to articulate but you know it when you see it.
C.V. Danes
@beltane: In this I believe you and my wife are in agreement :-)
My wife is just the type of person who Hillary should be appealing to, but is losing to Sanders.
Bobby Thomson
@Hillary Rettig:
Liar.
different-church-lady
@debit:
Only when there is once again a GOP president and not a single second before.
Bobby Thomson
@Jade: shove your coin flip and other lies up your ass.
BruceFromOhio
@DCF: I am unfamiliar with Bill Curry, and I usually avoid Salon just on general navigation principle. I gave it a look anyway, and it’s all very interesting until this:
Seeing Sanders name everywhere I see O’Malley’s or Clintons is a “media blackout,” eh? Sorry, Bill, I disagree with your definition of media blackout. Sanders has been doing a pretty good job of getting his message out, from the publicity out of Netroots Nation last year to getting in a good line on last nights Saturday Night Live, and all that has transpired in between. Not sure which “media” Bill Curry apparently interprets this “blackout” from, but where I sit this is not only inaccurate, it’s just silly.
Thanks for sharing the link.
Bobby Thomson
@different-church-lady: yep. And even that will take a few years.
Bobby Thomson
@OzarkHillbilly:
Citation needed.
schrodinger's cat
@WaterGirl: That’s one way of looking at it. I was not sure what TaMara had in mind, hence the question.
glory b
@Josie: Yep, that’s about it.
schrodinger's cat
@OzarkHillbilly: She posts an adulatory Bernie post, when people raise issues about the One True Progressive and his plans she runs away. She has done this at least once before.
ruemara
@Hillary Rettig: you do realize they’re not the ones threatening to take the ball & go home, this time.?
different-church-lady
@Gimlet:
I did media for a democratic focus group in NH last week. Those exact words were spoken by one of the men in the group.
Not a paraphrase of those words: those exact words, with the exception of “I” replacing “They”.
What I believe this means is that Dems have become just as good at being superficial parrots as the GOP has.
sparrow
@schrodinger’s cat: LOL! I feel your pain. I felt the same about Anne Laurie’s woman-crushing on Hillary, starting about 3 months ago.
sparrow
@schrodinger’s cat: I find it weird that Sanders supporters get painted with “they do x” a whole lot, when we’re not even close to a monolithic group of people. I have my issues with Obama, but I voted for him with enthusiasm and would do so again, and if I ever called him the Muslim Kenyan Usurper it was, you know, in jest.
Again, Tribalism is short-circuiting everyone’s thinking lately.
Loviatar
Wow, what a douche post. Started off well with some cute cuts of Bernie’s SNL appearance and then descended into assine personal attacks. Ms. Rettig seems to be making a habit of these kinds of posts.
—–
I’m beginning to wonder about her history, seeing how she has time for these post but has yet to write her bio. Could this persona be a John Cole sockpuppet. I know he has a hardon for Hillary and this might be his way of releasing his “tension”. I think its fair to speculate on this question.
FlipYrWhig
@BruceFromOhio: It’s an article of faith on the blogosphere left that the major reason why their candidates struggle is that there’s some sort of media blackout impeding them. See the argument above about Teachout.
FlipYrWhig
@C.V. Danes: is Clinton making that argument (gender solidarity) herself, though? It seems like something some of her supporters say but does anything like it come from her own mouth?
schrodinger's cat
@sparrow: I am not Hillary fan either, yes and those ra ra Hillbot posts were grating too.
@sparrow: When I pointed out that Bernie’s math didn’t add up. More than one Bernie fan mouthed GOP lies about Obama on healthcare as an example of politicians breaking promises. This was on the last HR thread where she called Hillary a liar.
sparrow
@FlipYrWhig: It is less true now that it’s hard to ignore him, but it was VERY true in the early going:
“In 2015, ABC News devoted 261 minutes to the 2016 campaign. Donald Trump got 81 minutes. Bernie Sanders got 20 seconds. ”
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/12/11/abc-world-news-tonight-has-devoted-less-than-on/207428
rb
@Hillary Rettig:
Not to pick a fight, but do you not read this blog?
LanceThruster
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxFrXuly_B0
sparrow
@schrodinger’s cat: Yes, I agree that douchebags will douche. But it’s not nice to then parrot to making that sort of idiotic behavior emblematic of all bernie supporters by saying “they’re always doing x…”.
In terms of annoyingness, It’s second only to your significant other starting off an argument with “You always…”
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Jade:
Bernie “does better” in current polls because the right hasn’t started in on him yet. Hillary’s been a target for 26 years; her negatives are as bad as they’re ever going to get, and they’re not that bad.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Hell, Hillary has barely started on him
Mr. Twister
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Wouldn’t those be national polls ? We don’t elect presidents nationally, we elect them state by state. This has all be covered before by Nate Silver among others. Yes, and they haven’t started with the Reagan playbook of tax and spend liberal, much less the Socialist attacks, etc. etc.
Cacti
More establishment conspiracy against the revolution:
Vox asks 6 political scientists their opinions on Bernie’s chances in the general.
The unanimous consensus: Bernie will get his ass kicked, and there’s a raft of reasons why.
rb
@C.V. Danes: Probably trying to organize that elusive Blogger Ethics Panel :)
gene108
@C.V. Danes:
You make a fair point about the “gender solidarity” brigade not backing up the woman.
It is a weak gambit by Hillary and company.
Cacti
@amk:
How strange.
Glenn Greenwald had previously assured me that such people do not exist.
StellaB
@Kay: In some ways HR’s response is heartening. I suspect that she hasn’t had the same workplace experiences that older women have had. I think that her generation is more egalitarian, but that allows them to perceive the quarter century of attacks directed against HRC as something that she, in some way, engendered. I was an engineer in the 80s, so I have a very different perception of sexism than the youngs.
HR also didn’t see the drubbing that George McGovern received. My fear, of course, is that Dems are being asked to choose between McGovern and Dukakis this time. The only potential upside is that the Rs are being asked to choose not between Goldwater and Reagan, but from an assortment of clowns and a psychopathic killer clown.
Baud
@StellaB:
Yeah, I don’t think Clinton’s message here is intended to be outreach to young women. I think it’s aimed at encouraging her older women supporters to show up to vote for her.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
She is and it’s an applause line. She says “break the glass ceiling” all the time. I just think it would be okay to leave that to voters. It will be discussed.
I liked the beginning of her campaign. I felt it played to her strengths, with a focus on quietly building solid support. Resiliency is obviously a quality she has. Is resiliency undervalued and is there maybe a gender element to that? Yes. But they’re not in the business of correcting what’s valued and what’s not, that campaign. That isn’t their job. They have to trust people.
Cacti
@Baud:
I see Steinem’s comments as being aimed at the same group. Those who are old enough to have experienced what she’s talked about.
The underlying point of her statement was basically unassailable: That women’s opportunities in general are directly proportional to how fuckable and available they’re perceived to be, which decreases as a function of age. Men’s opportunities aren’t similarly constrained through their life by age.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
There’s also this giant decades-long debate on feminism about class. The rap on older feminists was they focused on college educated women- “careers” rather than “jobs”. It’s been going on forever and it never gets resolved but she has to navigate that ground too. I think the “glass ceiling” thing is too narrow. Not everyone is working to be a CEO.
I’ll give you a really potent example. In the 1990’s women supposedly wanted “flex time” because they have to juggle all these things that men maybe don’t. Ten years later women who have shitty jobs were arguing exactly the opposite. Flexibility doesn’t mean freedom to them, it means chaos and uncertainty in their lives- irregular hours in low wage jobs were a disaster for them.
Heliopause
These millions of horny young women who take contraception for granted and are turned on by left politics; where were they when I was 20?
gwangung
I’d be more for Sanders if his supporters had fewer lame ass arguments like Berniebros don’t exist or there are no Sanders supporters who’d sit this election out if Clinton got the nomination. Makes me wonder if their other arguments are as weak or blinkered.
Argue for your candidate and use strong arguments!
C.V. Danes
@Cacti: I would tend to agree about Steinem, but would alter her audience to be the establishment fenimists, which is why its going over like a lead brick with young women. The youngs seem to be more or less antiestablishment across the board.
Baud
@Cacti:
I for one thing there is a special place in hell for people who use the internet but don’t support the only virtual candidate in the race.
henqiguai
@Loviatar(#156):
Hillary Rettig – Hillary Rettig – Books, Coaching and Workshops on Time Management, and Overcoming Procrastination, Perfectionism and Blocks.
chopper
@Josie:
yep, that’s the profile all right.
Welp, I gotta go practice my self-righteous affectations. gotta go!
schrodinger's cat
@sparrow: I did not say all Bernie supporters, I said Bernie supporters which means more than one supporter has put forth this argument. You don’t have to wear the hat if it doesn’t fit.
C.V. Danes
@gwangung: Sanders has the ‘Berniebros’ and Clinton has the ‘Clintonistas.’ So what. Its time for us to stop engaging in the narcissism of tiny differences. Either candidate would be far better than anything the republican clown car will barf out, and either would win in the general.
C.V. Danes
@Cacti: My feeling is that if Bernie can topple Clinton, then he will win the general election. If he is indeed ‘unelectable’ then he will ultimately lose to Clinton.
pamelabrown53
@C.V. Danes:
No, of course Sanders isn’t exhorting a gender solidarity vote but I’m seeing more and more evidence of Bernie and some of his supporters making an “ideological solidarity vote”, one that allows them to define who or who isn’t a progressive and who or who isn’t is thrown outside the “Big Tent”. It’s coalition destroying and reminiscent of too many (losing) movements from the 60’s on: accept my white-privileged view or get the hell out; you’re stupid (corrupt, establishment). Oligarchy! Neoliberal!
But what do I know, history is irrelevant, plus I’m too pragmatic to be a real progressive.
StellaB
@pamelabrown53: This.
Applejinx
Posting from the Bernie office, working on data entry.
We are switching over from predictive dialer to our in-person canvassing because we’re getting a big problem: our predictive dialer is meant to be giving us a list of Bernie supporters, but mysteriously the system is instead giving us things like Trump voters, or connecting us to the same voter over and over again.
We are experiencing technical difficulties with the DNC-controlled computer systems that run our predictive dialers, but we’re still able to do canvassing in person, and some data is getting through, and we’re continuing to build the collective database that we ALL share for GOTV.
They’ve sent us through the same predictive dialer list three times and we have no recourse other than to try and go through channels… and to turn to our in-person canvassing.
Some of us are asking whether, perchance, Hillary Clinton’s campaign is having exactly the same problem getting voter lists and phone dialer functionality out of the system as we’re having right now. If she is, then my, how difficult for her.
WarMunchkin
@Cacti: Honestly, a lot of those arguments also make a pretty compelling case for the DLC, and a lot of the same arguments deployed against Sanders would be equally valid for opposing a Warren nomination. Extending the “don’t be ideologically too far out” can be 100% extended to every single Democratic race – elect the most conservative person who uses the label “Democrat”.
This is also how we end up with multiple Democratic Senators who oppose abortion rights.
Frankly, it’s ridiculous that we have to treat people as if they’re so puerile – that, by design, our Democratic process simply doesn’t allow people to say “the best way to reduce carbon usage is via a nominal carbon tax” because they’re scared of the t-word. The fact that we, in 2016, are defending a fundamentally conservative solution to the health care crisis that had its origins in the Heritage Foundation speaks volumes about the Republican victory on economic issues in this country.
@schrodinger’s cat:
Dear lord. I’m probably voting for Hillary, but you’ve got to have dumped every ounce of self-awareness in your body into the nearest dumpster fire, then doused it in gasoline, then scattered the ashes into the Ganges, to have that thought cross your mind.
Davis X. Machina
@Loviatar: Clearly the end of the Cold War created a surplus of tanks, making it all the easier to go into one for a candidate…
WarMunchkin
@pamelabrown53:
…you’re commenting on a thread that has a Clinton surrogate who literally said that women who don’t support Hillary are going to hell.
Primary season sucks.
Bartholomew
@debit: “Will someone let me know when we get back to attacking the GOP instead of each other?”
When ‘the Left’ gets out of liberalism … until then it is just Bolshiviki tactics for the lose. It’s a learning environment but monkeys like poo and peanuts.
Many have explained why they cannot ever vote for Hillary Clinton (war vote in my case) but this isn’t what the tribal monkeys want to hear, so they don’t. Apparently I must deny my liberal beliefs to be a Democrat at this point.
The chatter does ring the branches though, swaying with the media tunes … left to right, right to left, left to …
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Applejinx: if Bernie fails, it’s because you’re wasting His time
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Would you like a cold compress? A cookie? A does of laudanum?
Applejinx
Thankfully, some of our GOTV stuff like tracking what turfs are out being canvassed or not, are not being done through the DNC-controlled ‘VoteBuilder’ systems. Some of that stuff is on Google Docs ‘cos the youngs who are so involved with the campaign know Google Docs, so that is outside the purview of things politicians can do to rats. No rats allowed in our turf tracking! :D
schrodinger's cat
@WarMunchkin: Anne Laurie doesn’t impugn Bernie when she posts her pro Hillary posts. HR can’t help but make nasty barbs about Clinton. BTW it is Ganga, Ganges is the Victorian spelling like Cawnpore.
Cacti
@WarMunchkin:
Warren under-performed Obama by over 220,000 votes in Massachusetts during the same election cycle. The reasons for this can be debated, but the result tends to undercut the hypothesis that candidates farther out on the ideological wings aren’t less electable in a general election.
Cacti
@Bartholomew:
When nailing yourself to the martyr’s cross, how do you get that last one pounded in with only one free hand?
I’ve always wondered about that.
Bartholomew
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “Would you like a cold compress? A cookie? A does of laudanum?”
Ooo-ooo-ahh-ahh. Chump chimp. It is spelled “dose” btw.
Monkey cage fight … again. So impressive.
VFX Lurker
@Hillary Rettig:
You know far better Bernie supporters than I do.
A 30-something Bernie supporter told me last year that he will not vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election. He doesn’t like her Iraq War vote. He thinks she’s in cahoots with big banks and Wall Street. He disapproves of her wealth. He also have more respect for her if she’d left her cheating husband. He doesn’t see much difference between Hillary and her Republican opponents.
If Bernie loses the primary, he’ll vote for the independent this year.
Other white, male Bernie supporters on Facebook have stated outright that they are “pro-Bernie and anti-Hillary.” They spend more time bashing Hillary than they do praising Bernie, and they will never vote for Hillary. They, too, do not see much difference between Hillary and the Republican party. One Bernie supporter suggested letting the Republican win to teach Americans “a lesson” should Bernie lose the primary. Another Bernie supporter is a Gamergater who hates Hillary almost as much as he hates Anita Sarkeesian.
If Bernie loses the primary, they’ll either vote for the independent this year or not vote.
I do know more pragmatic Bernie supporters. They will vote against the Republican this November no matter who is on the ballot. I hope they represent the majority of Bernie’s support.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If only the ideologically compromised like ourselves could understand the heavy burden that the pure in heart must bear.
gene108
@WarMunchkin:
Being a big tent party means you accept people, with views that do not 100% conform to the party platform.
Tax increases are hard to sell and are ridiculously unpopular. An industry specific tax that will not impact most people can be sellable, such as the medical device manufacturers tax in the PPACA, but even after passage you have Senators from those states, where the industry is a big deal, tryin to claw it back like Sen. Elizabeth Warren.
Also the PPACA has fuck all to do with the Heritage plan of 25 years ago. They have damn near nothing in common. It is a fucking disservice to the people, who pushed for its passage against crazy opposition that they just cribbed the notes from a Republican plan.
Cacti
@gene108:
The Vox article with the 6 political scientists speak to this phenomenon directly, and the reasons why.
C.V. Danes
@pamelabrown53: The narcissism of tiny differences. Whatever differences exist between Sanders and Clinton is tiny compared to the differences between either of them and whatevet toxic mash is brewing in the republican clown car.
Applejinx
@Cacti: You mean, our phone systems mysteriously breaking down on the DNC-run end two days before the primary, for no particular reason? :D
Our people know how to say ‘deliver these lists of confirmed Bernie supporters so we can run predictive dialer, and call ’em all up to find out if they need rides to the polls’. It’s not hard and it’s what these systems are designed to do. On the other hand, I guess it depends who you ask.
Time to hit the streets, then! (also we’re switching to a manual form of phone calling since predictive dialer is mysteriously doing REALLY AMUSING things to us, that we certainly did not tell it to do. Whatever. Nobody ever said going against a Clinton was going to be easy.)
Cacti
@Applejinx:
I knew when Bernie lost Iowa, the conspiracies would fly fast and furious. But take heart little revolutionary. You’re hardly the first.
Hubris of the defeated is very common.
Bartholomew
@Cacti:
Yes! This is it!
The path to electoral success is making people realize you are as stupid as your opponents say you are!
Fight fire with fire, of course! Show folks how kraykray you are so they are afraid to talk, it is what Leftists do. Righties too, it is a spectrum.
Insult me into supporting you! I’m almost there… gosh I guess since Hillary’s supporters are blind assholes I should bow down to them. That is EXACTLY how this thing works.
Um, well … really the Cacti types should have been muzzled by now, if folks were serious about political success. Folks coming here see the monkey-poo brigade and leave wanting less.
Cacti
@Bartholomew:
Self-awareness isn’t a strong suit for the Bernfeelers, is it.
Wave your signs vigorously little warriors. The revolution will be here any day now.
pamelabrown53
@WarMunchkin:
You’re a gazillion percent right: primary season sucks. A Hillary surrogate is a reflection on Hillary when Benie was confronted in the last debate on his attempt t be the gate keeper on who or who isn’t progressive/establishment.
I’m willing for Hillary to drop “The Vagina Monologues” and let it be tacitly understood . I also hope that Bernie and his supporters don’t inflict unnecessary wounds/damages on the Dem. party (with all its flaws) for some ’68 version of Back to the Future .
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Bartholomew: Well, you seem to have come for it, and won’t leave/
ETA: Show folks how kraykray you are so they are afraid to talk
Jeepers, Sparkle Pony, you scare easy
Applejinx
@Cacti: All I’m doing is reporting what’s happening. We actually have had to ditch predictive dialer (which we are paying to use) because, specifically, it’s sending us through the same list three times (literally what’s happened up here) which is not what we told it to do. We have no control over the numbers it sends, so if it’s sending nothing but bad data two days before the primary then we have to go do other things.
Again: we wonder if Hillary is having the same problem with the system, and if she is, oh how inconvenient for her. I’m a little surprised this is happening with two days still to go, as it seems to leave a certain amount of time for this obstacle to go viral, if it’s a real tactic. Certainly we are at the mercy of the DNC’s software vendors with regard to some things run on those centralized computers. As far as basic voter lists, we’re in better shape, and things are hopping over here so there’s a lot of enthusiasm.
Cacti
@pamelabrown53:
Nah, the goal is a 1972 redux. When enthusiastic white college students last got their dream candidate, with a dash of 1984, the last time a Dem candidate ran on the promise to raise taxes across the board.
J R in WV
@Kay:
Biden is from Delaware, if we’re talking about the former Senator current VP.
Sorry to be a nit-picker…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Applejinx: Thought you had doors to knock on? Or did someone there say, “You know, Sparky, your unique personality is really better saved up for, um, later…. in the meantime, why don’t you stay here and play angry birds??
Cacti
@Applejinx:
It’s equally cringe worthy/laugh worthy how quick the Bernfeelers are to assign nefarious motives to everyone else, given their demonstrated willingness to engage in felony computer fraud and criminal trespass for “the greater good”.
Project much? Most definitely.
TallPete
@Keith P.: @AliceBlue: @AliceBlue: @AliceBlue: @AliceBlue: @AliceBlue: There’s an article on Salon this morning crowing about how it’s all over. Hillary is “finished.” Geez, can’t we at least go through the primary process before all the Hillary supporters get carted off to the Bernie re-education camps?
Apparently you’re new to Salon. They like click-bait so they’ll have a inflammatory anti-Sanders story tomorrow if that makes you feel better
C.V. Danes
@Cacti: Bernie didn’t lose Iowa. He and Clinton left the state in a statistical tie.
But regardless, I keep saying this: the differences between Sanders and Clinton are tiny compared to the differences between the Democrats and the Republicans. Tiny indeed.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
At least he’s not coy about his left authoritarian predilections.
Disagree with Bernfeelers? You should be muzzled for the sake of the movement.
Rather Stalinesque, innit?
Cacti
@C.V. Danes:
Whatever makes you feel better. I know it hasn’t been long enough for Sanders supporters to get through all of their Kubler-Ross stages.
Applejinx
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s nice of you to say, but I am indeed a humongous nerd, and from the start I’ve been focussing on data entry. That needs to get done too, you know. Also, I go around the office picking up litter and trash, so if that makes you happy, happy to meet your needs :)
pamelabrown53
@C.V. Danes:
YEP! :-)
Phoenix
@WereBear: Yeah, Bernie and his peeps should stop scolding us for not being as pure as he is. Even though he isn’t:
http://mobile.vnews.com/news/20920395-108/sanders-scored-over-use-of-photos
http://www.shakesville.com/2015/07/looking-for-bernie-part-4-turning-right.html
schrodinger's cat
@Cacti: Bernie’s campaign is like a blast from the past. The ideological purity tests, the tall promises. I am wondering when we are going to hear about real communism, and how it has never been tried.
Phoenix
@Cacti: His third strongest state, whose Democratic primary voters are white and super-liberal, and he still couldn’t lock it down.
StellaB
I find it hard to forgive Bernie for cozying up to the NRA for all those years, too. Yes, HRC’s Iraq war vote stunk, but Sanders has made some vile decisions too.
My real problem with Sanders is that he wasn’t a D until about twenty minutes ago. He spent his entire House and Senate career apart from the Ds, expecting them to come to him for his vote. If he were to move from the legislative branch to the executive branch, that would stop and he would be in the position of having to go to the Ds for their cooperation. I don’t think that’s his personality. OTOH, HRC is used to dancing backwards in high heels.
NR
@Gimlet: About 75% of millennial women make less than $25k/year. We’re looking at another Lost Generation if this keeps up. It’s no wonder Hillary got destroyed with women under 45 in Iowa.
Meanwhile, Cacti and the other Hillary supporters think that insults and naked contempt are the way to win the support of young voters. All I can say is, good luck with that.
Mr. Twister
@Cacti: You sir are the winner !
C.V. Danes
@Cacti: 49.9 vs. 49.6. Yeah, it was such a HUGH win that Sanders should just conceed now.
Whatever makes YOU feel better.
C.V. Danes
@NR: Exactly.
I do, to some extent agree that young women perhaps blow off the existential threat that the Republicans are to them to their peril, but their reality these days is that straight up economic issues are more meaningful than the issues between men and women. In other words, in order to be concerned that men are making more than you in your career, you first need to have a job that can lead to a career.
And besides, from their viewpoint, what have the olds done for the feminist cause in the last decade or two except gripe about how complacent the young women are now? What’s the last big battle they fought and won?
My mother, who would be in her 70s now if she were still alive, was from the ‘anything men can do, we can do better’ generation of feminists. They worked harder, cused harder, and for all I know f’ked harder than any man. Those were the real feminists, in my opinion.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Now in fairness, Peewee, I’ve been nakedly contemptuous of you for years. Cause you’re an obnoxious little dimwit.
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thanks for the demonstration of the maturity level of Hillary supporters. For all that you guys love to shit on the young, you might as well be about 12 yourselves.
TallPete
@StellaB: The NRA gives Sanders a grade of D or similar. That’s hardly described as a cozy relationship.
I do understand all the butt hurt from the Dem party faithful about Sanders crashing their coronation. Honestly I do, that’s not snark. I get that sentiment. I think they need to realize that he brings new voters into the Dem tent. Sure not all Sanders supporters would vote for Hillary if she wins the Primary, but I get the feeling a majority would. Their only other sane option is to stay home, right?
C.V. Danes
@TallPete: Exactly. What is there to fear, exactly? If Clinton can’t beat Sanders in the primary, then she rightly should fear the general election.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Hah! I remember when all purity ponies used to have bloody knuckles and fallen arches from the untold hours they spent walking the streets to single-handedly get Obama elected ,only to be BE-TRAAAAAYED!!!! by the Evil one.
Now, almost ten years later, you’re all suspiciously youthful! Dewey-eyed Friends of the ABC yearning to take to the Barricades (Of Blogs) for Bernie! You’ll all learn to shave as you convince Claire McCaskill and Chuck Schemer to give you “free college.”
What the hell, I’ll be twenty six, a couple inches taller, and look like Brad Bitt’s handsomer younger brother. It’s the internet!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@TallPete: that’s all well and good, unless he brings them in with a lot of disingenuous horseshit about a “Revolution” that neither he nor anyone else can or will provide with one election. Many of his supporters here contend he never meant that. Okay, then he needs to spell that out, cause from what I see and read, a lot of first time voters are buying into a bait-and-switch. Not a great party-building strategy.
TallPete
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You appear to be off your meds. Calm down
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Dude, you’re actually incoherent. If there’s anything anywhere in that spew that’s even close to a rational thought, I can’t decipher it. Take a Xanax or something and lie down.
NR
@TallPete: Or maybe they upped his dose a bit too much.
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Meanwhile, Hillary’s message is loud and clear: Be happy with whatever scraps I say you can have, and don’t you dare even think about going for more, because you won’t get it, and you’ll hand power to a bunch of Neanderthals who will make your lives even more miserable. Also, you have to overlook my flaws like my Wall Street $$$ and the fact that I’m a warhawk. In fact, you can’t even talk about them, because it’ll make it harder for me to win and make it easier for the GOP to get a clean sweep and stomp all over you and your forced-to-be-divorced gay friends.
That’s an inspiring message for sure. I’m sure it’ll make people flock to the polls.
superpredators4hillary
To hear my fellow Hillary supporters hopelessly lash out is often a grating experience. Don’t get hysterical, get even. Get orthopedic footwear and take it to the streets. Get indentured and bridge the gap. Get hard…hard, hard candy. And suck it.
Cacti
@superpredators4hillary:
Berniebros just gotta Berniebro.
TallPete
@Cacti: I bet you had to dig deep for that pithy comment
Cacti
@TallPete:
I know it’s a bummer for ya, bro.
Bros dropping sexist slurs on behalf of the revolution kinda ruins the whole plausible deniability #NotAllMen bit.
TallPete
This name calling is juvenile. Berniebros and Clintonistas? Whats next, “I know you are but what am I”?