Marco is double-tripling down on his “Obama is a traitor” bullshit and adding in more:
One of the things I’m criticized for is saying the truth, and I’ll continue to say this: Barack Obama is undermining this country. He is hurting this country. He is doing serious damage to this country in a way that I believe is part of a plan to weaken America on the global stage. This is the truth,” Rubio said on Fox.
He also defended himself from criticism that he’s inexperienced.
“This line that somehow I have no experience is absurd. It’s true I haven’t lived as long as some of the people running for president, but I have more foreign policy experience than any of them,” Rubio said.
The reason that I buy McKay Coppin’s characterization of Rubio as, essentially, a giant spazz, is simply because he’s acting like one.
Trump could claim that he has more foreign policy experience than Clinton, since he’s made many deals outside the US during his lifetime – it’s bullshit, but at least it’s logically consistent with the rest of the Trump self-delusion. In other words, you’re not going to laugh at it if you’re inclined to buy Trump’s b.s., and if you’re not inclined to buy his b.s., you’re laughing at so many things that it’s hard to single this one out for special derision.
Not so with Rubio – he served on the Foreign Relations Committee for 5 years, in his usual undistinguished way. He’s also supposed to be the “serious” candidate. So, maybe, he could talk about a few individual foreign policy accomplishments during his time in the Senate and spin us a tale about how that shows that he has an aptitude for foreign policy. But to say that he has the most foreign policy experience of anyone running is just what a piss-pants scared nervous kid would cough up the first time they met a serious challenge. The fact is that Trump probably has more foreign policy experience than Rubio, sadly.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
“I am NOMAD…”
S-Curve
Maybe someone in the media would care to ask Rubio WHY this is the plan? I mean, if you want to say that the sitting president is actively trying to weaken America, I’d love to learn why you think that’s true. It would seem like a big story!
mrmcd
The “A human life won’t become a cat” tweet kind of feels like the perfect example of everything wrong with Rubio’s campaign. It makes no god damn sense but you can just picture everyone other there high fiving over how awesome and smart they are.
JPL
During the debate, Rubio appeared to be confused about Sunni, and Shia and how the Kurds fit in. Rubio’s strength is not foreign policy. Michelle Bachman also touted her foreign policy experience.
beltane
@S-Curve: Duh. Because Barack Obama knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s trying to make the United States like the rest of the world.
With all the money people like Sheldon Adelson have invested in Rubio, could they not have splurged on a better scrip writer?
beltane
@JPL: What is Rubio’s strength?
dedc79
@S-Curve: I can’t predict Rubio’s exact answer but I bet it would include “Alinsky.”
trollhattan
Just because he looks like a better hotel’s desk clerk doesn’t make this tack any less vile. Fvck you, li’l Macro. Here’s a swift kick to your shriveled balls from weakened America.
WarMunchkin
That’s very Trumpian rhetoric though, which I thought wasn’t his base. I doubt he can out-Trump Trump. Maybe in his home state.
Hungry Joe
@trollhattan: ” … better hotel”? I see a Motel 6. Night shift.
beltane
@WarMunchkin: Nah. No one can out-Trump Trump, not even in Florida. If Rubio wants to win this thing, he’s got to be willing to get up on a stage and shout naughty words until he’s blue in the face.
JMG
All he has to do is win one state, or maybe even just Guam, and the political media will start calling him “Mr. President.” They love the guy for some reason.
Roger Moore
@beltane:
He’s young, supposedly handsome, and can repeat canned talking points in a smooth voice that doesn’t sound to a casual listener as if he’s just repeating a canned talking point. Most importantly, but not for public discussion, he’s dumb and malleable enough to make a good puppet.
Waldo
@WarMunchkin: Yeah, I get the impression both Marco and Christie are vying to be the establishment-approved, Trump-lite candidate — with similarly underwhelming results.
dedc79
In horse race terminology, I think Rubio’s looking at:
Show, Did Not Place, Did Not Place, Glue Factory, Some Kid’s Arts & Crafts Project
SFAW
MR: “Yes, Mr. Papa — your question?”
LP: “Senator Rubio, you are, in essence, accusing President Obama of being a traitor, and performing acts of treason. If you believe this, then why have you not used your considerable skill and experience to have him tried as such, and then executed (after a fair trial, of course)?
“Or, is it, perhaps, that you realize your party caters to racists, morons, and racist morons, and you figure that any dishonest bullshit you vomit out will be eaten up by the ‘base,’ and so have nothing to lose? Well, except your integrity — not that you have any.”
beltane
@Roger Moore: The thing is, too a casual listener he does sound canned in a way the other Republicans do not. I understand the big money folks desire for a spokesmodel, but Rubio is just not that talented.
OzarkHillbilly
@beltane: Getting money from suckers.
beltane
@dedc79: At the rate he’s going, he’s definitely not going to be put out to stud.
SFAW
@Hungry Joe:
A YUUUUGE and Very Classy Motel 6, mind you.
Goblue72
@beltane: He polls better head to head vs Clinton than the other candidates and beats her head to head.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
The problem with Rubio is that he’s got nothing but Koch Brothers talking points caught in his compiler.
Mai.naem.mobile
Christie is suspending his campaign per the Twitter Machine. I was hoping he was going to stay in and damage Marcobot some more.
beltane
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, kind of like Palin but with less charisma. Palin’s word salad is rotten but not canned.
SFAW
@beltane:
Do they put geldings out to stud?
nominus
Good Marco, goood. Let the stupid flow through you. That kind of stupid will spell Certain Doom in the general election, because to anyone outside of the racist circle jerk it just sounds stupid. If that kind of stupid winds up being a primary election torpedo, so much the better.
NotMax
Ooh, he was on a committee!
That is, when he bothered to show up.
Rand Paul is also on the same committee. So he must be a foreign policy whiz as well, isn’t that so Marco Antonio?
OzarkHillbilly
@Goblue72: Except for in an actual election (only saying that the only polling that matters is what is done at the polls, and Marco can’t even get out of NH)
roricmcc
You give Rubio too much credit even by suggesting that “he could talk about a few individual foreign policy accomplishments during his time in the Senate” because he doesn’t have any.
NotMax
@JMG
Same way they tout Paul Ryan as an economic Einstein for stapling together some pages with large numbers scattered on them.
Renie
With Christie out when will JEB? get the Bush Crime Family to dig up more dirt on Rubio2.0. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more crap leaked from them about him.
Goblue72
@OzarkHillbilly: Except the more polls and the closer to Election Day, the more accurate in the aggregate. And they have general predictive value enough that campaigns use them all the time to aide in decision making on a host of decision points.
The canard “the only poll that matters is Election Day” is a nice truism, but it’s overly simplistic and besides the point.
This early, yes, hard to tell with accuracy the result of any head to head. But in context amongst all the GOP candidates, the head to heads are useful to gauge which GOP candidates are more likely to do better against Clinton or Sanders than other ones.
And Rubio does better. That’s not to say he would win, but amongst decision process for the GOP establishment, he’s the better choice for going into the general election at this point in time.
Just Some Fuckhead
Hard to tell what Macro Rubotic’s overarching campaign message is. Barack Obama something something? How does that translate into a vote for Macro?
NotMax
@Renie
That’s what South Carolina is for on planet Bush.
See: McCain, John, dusky offspring
MattF
A useful way of thinking about Rubio is in terms of ‘repertoire’. Marco has a limited repertoire. So, when facing a new situation– one, in particular, that is threatening in some way– he has limited choices of action– and if those few choices turn out to be inappropriate or useless, that’s just too bad.
Now, if you’re the junior Senator from Florida, having a limited repertoire may actually be an advantage. But, if you’re President, not so much.
Gin & Tonic
@Goblue72: If Rubio cratered after one debate in the friendly zone, how do you think he’d do discussing his foreign policy experience in a debate with a former SoS?
SFAW
@roricmcc:
Oh, bullshit. He managed to swim the entire 600 miles from Havana to Jacksonville, carrying his family, plus Rafael Bienvenido Cruz, on his back the whole way. If that’s not foreign policy chops, then you might as well call Sen. Rubio a lying moron.
[PS. Don’t say I never did anything for you.}
OzarkHillbilly
@Goblue72:
Not saying otherwise.
At what? Getting pantsed on national tv by Christie and then spanked by Trump, Cruz, Kasich, and Bush? Because if he can’t beat any of them, he sure as hell can’t beat HRC, now can he?
Kay
I wish it could work, but Kasich is exactly the same as Bush although Kasich is slightly more popular. That’s the only difference.
Calouste
A few thoughts after the New Hampshire primary:
1) Trump out-performed his polling average by about 4 points. That’s pretty good going for someone who had a relative disappointment in Iowa.
2) Not surprised that New Hampshire goes for an aspiring fascist like Trump. At least they didn’t pick an outright Nazi-apologist like they did in 1992.
3) Even if all but one of the establishment candidates would drop out, the remaining one would still be about 9% behind Trump in the national polling averages.
Marc
Whatever Rubio may have been, he just isn’t a serious candidate any more. Third place to fifth place isn’t a good trajectory, and it’ hard to see that he’ll do any better anywhere else soon. South Carolina is famous for dirty pool on the Republican side, and his opponents won’t even have to dig to make him a laughingstock.
Germy
The way people like Rubio and Palin talk, it sounds like they won’t be satisfied until someone shoots the president. Isn’t that sort of the next logical step, if you take what these extremists say literally?
@Renie:
Yes, I’ve been waiting for some fine oppo research from the Bush Kamp. I’m sure they’re digging as we speak.
NotMax
@Marc
Plus wolfing down salty grits at photo-ops makes one thirsty.
beltane
@Renie: Just this morning I saw a report (sorry, no link) claiming that people close to Rubio say he “freezes” in times of crisis. That ain’t good.
Mike in NC
Macro Robotio is obviously going to audition for a sweet paying gig with FOX News.
CONGRATULATIONS!
I believe Mr. Rubio is some form of Mexican. Shouldn’t be too hard to finish him off in South Carolina. Any clips of him speaking Spanish? That’ll be the end right there.
NotMax
@Mike in NC
“Next up, foreign policy expert Marco Rubio.”
It is to laugh.
Germy
@beltane:
It might be a feature, not a bug, if the enemies of America have movement-based vision.
NonyNony
@Kay:
When the chips are down, does Jeb Bush go after the guy on top? No, that sounds hard. How about the guy in the number 2 spot? No, that also sounds hard. What about the guys with him who are tied for last place? Hell yeah!
That’s the exact kind of low risk/low reward campaigning that earned him that “low energy” label that he hates so much.
rikyrah
1. It’s on the Wall Street Journal EDITORIAL PAGE.
Even before Rupert bought it and ruined the news division..
Only Slave Catchers need submit anything to them. ..they were a right-wing racist nirvana.
2. See #1.
Oliver Willis @owillis
a black person has written a pro-jim crow op-ed in todays wall st journal
Cacti
The biggest problem the RNC has with selling Rubio is that he’s just kind of dumb.
And not affable, George W. Bush dumb. Just plain dumb.
Germy
Barack Obama is undermining this country. He is hurting this country. He is doing serious damage to this country in a way that I believe is part of a plan to weaken America on the global stage.
Fiendishly clever. But I thought he was feckless?
So which is it?
ed_finnerty
@beltane: my pet goat 2.0
Bartholomew
Do the base of Trump supporters spend all day talking and commenting and linking to discussion and analyzing and following closely every utterance and maybe-utterance and ramifications thereof about … Democratic candidates?
Do they take all the oxygen from their ‘side’ in a psychological shunning scheme in order to signal weak monkey-ness of other allies in a bullying dominance display?
Because if so we’ve got no worries in the election.
Germy
@rikyrah:
Uncle Ruckus is writing op-eds now?
Paul in KY
@S-Curve: Because he’s a Kenyan Commiefacist, Isalmoathiest Manchurian candidate designed to make Murca’s chickens come home to roost, argle bargle bargle…
C.V. Danes
If weakening our global presence means being less of a global hegemon, then I say go for it.
D58826
It truly is tiring the standard GOOPer line that Obama is guilty of treason (or is it actually sedition or maybe both). It wasn’t that long ag, like between Jan20, 2001 and Jan. 20, 2009, that to even suggest that the President wasn’t thew most patriotic and exceptional human being alive was an act of treason or sedition or both
Paul in KY
@beltane: They bid it out & The Lionel Hutz Group came in with the lowest bid. That’s how you do things in Plutocratland.
singfoom
I like how he says Obama is undermining the country, but not how. He’s bad, because he’s bad, bad bad bad.
Also, everyone should watch the Triumph the Insult Comic Dog 2016 Election Special.
http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/hulu-triumph-the-insult-comic-dog-2016-election-special-1201685088/
Watching him follow the Cruz campaign in Iowa was very very funny.
It’s on Hulu.
NotMax
@Cacti
“No, Megyn, ‘carpet bombing’ is not my proposal, which is ‘enhanced throw rug bombing.'”
beltane
@Paul in KY: Penny wise and pound foolish as they used to say. The plutocrats used to invest in big budget productions like Arnold Scwarzenegger. Now they only provide the little people with third-rate animated features like the Marco Rubio show. No wonder Trump is doing so well.
Germy
@singfoom: Triumph’s Kim Davis disguise was quite convincing.
“I’m a victeeem! I’m a victeeeeem!”
Brachiator
@beltane:
His shoes.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay,
I can’t see Kasich connecting to the evangelicals there. He didn’t do it in Iowa, so how do you think he can in South Carolina?
I don’t see Marco doing it either.
Cacti
@Brachiator:
You mean those man pumps he was rocking in Iowa?
Goblue72
@Gin & Tonic: Won’t matter unless he says something equivalent to Palin’s “I see Russia from my house” moment. Dirty secret is that Presidential TV debates have very little effect on electoral outcomes in most cases. There are a very limited number of exceptions – Kennedy-Nixon and Carter-Reagan. And even in those cases, they weren’t solely dispositive.
Bush came into the debates against Gore seen as the underdog and he came out immediately after the debates as having been seen as losing the debates to Gore by the pros. Didn’t matter. He avoided saying anything completely ridiculous and didn’t drool on himself.
Obama came out of that debate against Romney having “lost” and Andrew Sullivan went hysterical. Didn’t matter.
Debates are over-rated in modern elections.
Kay
@NonyNony:
I don’t think it’s a bad plan. It’s the only possible plan. He doesn’t think Cruz has a serious shot (I agree) so he has to knock out the other two establishment people and then run against Trump. It’s just that he doesn’t have that much time. Bush just has to win the establishment primary.
Renie
@D58826: that’s right – many on the left were labeled traitors for even suggesting anything bush did was wrong
but IOKIYAR
NonyNony
@Cacti:
W has that kind of “aw shucks, I’m just a simple man like y’all” image that certain voters in the GOP just eat up. His whole brush clearing thing? That was part of it. He’s out there clearing his backyard just like you guys have to do when you have a day off! He probably used to drink Coors Light – just like you! – before he found Jesus and became a recovering alcoholic – also just like you!
He was a man with a Masters degree who could convince a bunch of folks with High School educations that he was just like them. He was an amazing salesman.
Rubio, OTOH, is the dopey guy who sat behind you in college. You know the one – the guy who would only show up about half the time, ask the dumbest questions when he did bother to come, and who you are convinced looked over your shoulder when you were taking exams and copying your answers but you couldn’t ever prove it. Yeah – he’s that guy. That guy had friends, but not enough to get him elected president.
Germy
Charles Pierce wonders why Christie went after Rubio:
SFAW
@Goblue72:
Except that Obama’s numbers dropped by a fair amount between the first and second debates. He managed to recover, but it’s not clear how much more he could have won by, without bombing the first debate. Had he said something like “I’m not sure who this is I’m debating, but he’s contradicting everything Governor Romney has been saying for the last N months,” he might have given the rest of the country the chance to laugh at Rmoney’s lying, and probably not dropped in the polls, etc., etc.
And then, unicorns for everyone!
singfoom
@Germy: I was convinced. Seemed like Kim Davis to me. The only part that wasn’t funny was any of the Chris Christie segments. One long fat joke.
The answers people gave from the crowd of Trump supporters made me despair for humanity. The stupid does’t just burn, it boils.
Paul in KY
@beltane: Short-term is the only term, beltane!
Kay
@rikyrah:
Kasich has a kind of religious appeal that is really common among middle/upper income conservatives here. It’s mild and vague and kind of commercial- like in chain religious bookstores (I don’t know if you’re familiar with those.) I can’t explain it other than to say I get coffee cups as gifts with “inspirational” sayings that sound like Kasich. It’s not challenging in any way, even if you’re not religious – inoffensive.
His base in Ohio is really comfortable middle/upper class Republicans and leaners who don’t want to be considered either hateful or extremely religious. I think the best word would be “conventional”, but proud of that.
Calouste
@Goblue72:
Gerald Ford: “There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford Administration.”
Rick Perry: “Oops…”
Of course, it is no surprise that the moments that seem decisive during televised presidential debates happened during the first three election they were held (there were no televised debates in 1964, 1968, and 1972). After that the candidates worked out how to avoid those moments.
SFAW
@NonyNony:
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence!
Germy
@singfoom: Yeah, that one Trump supporter with the beard and long hair: “He doesn’t go FAR ENOUGH!”
amk
@Goblue72: you should call up gallup.
Goblue72
@OzarkHillbilly: Christie is dropping out. Kasich will shortly. Somebody soon is gonna send Fiorina a message to get with the program.
Stage is gonna shrink to 3 real quick, absent Jeb! falling backwards into some luck. If GOP voters start breaking more Cruz or Trump after that, big problems for Rubio sure. But so far, the stage us still to crowded and all the not Cruz/Trump candidates are too busy sniping at each other in an effort to be last candidate standing.
NonyNony
@Kay:
I disagree that it’s the only plan. If Cruz can’t win then he needs Cruz’s support to shift to other people sooner rather than later – if all of that support is going to Trump anyway once Cruz gets knocked out then its game over and the sooner you figure that out the better. Suppose his gambit is successful and he knocks out Rubio and Kasich – there’s no guarantee that their voters start backing him. Cruz might start looking attractive as the “not Trump” who at least has some government experience, even if he is widely hated.
Bush needs to do more than knock out the other establishment candidates – he needs to knock them out and get their voters to coalesce around him instead of Cruz. Leaving Cruz as an option, no matter how odious, gives those supporters looking at “electability” and thinking “Trump can’t get elected and there’s no way that W’s brother is going to beat anyone” an out – they can go for Cruz who is relatively unknown compared to Bush or Trump but is also at least an elected Republican and hope for the best.
bystander
I enjoyed seeing the video of Marco’s Jimmy Swaggart moment when he apologized to his fans for his lousy performance. There’s something so comical about a guy yelling, I AM SO SORRY I DID A TERRIBLE JOB AT THE DEBATES. It seems as if it should end with a spanking while Marco cries “Mommeeee” but that’s probably wishful thinking on my part.
Paul in KY
@Germy: Also Christie is still angling for a Veep spot (under Donald, I guess).
goblue72
@amk: Is there a recent Clinton/Rubio head-to-head from Gallup?
I usually just check RCP since they aggregate the polls and provide nifty interactive graphs – RealClearPolitics
jl
I like Rubio’s 3-5-3 strategy to victory. I don’t think that head to head polls for the general election mean much at this time, other than indicating whether there is a big obstacle for one of the candidates to overcome, given what we know now. Carson has polled very close to HRC, anyone think Carson has a shot in the general?
If Rubo’s handlers are telling him to push the most brittle shrill and divisive attacks on Obama, that doesn’t seem promising for his chances to me. I think Trump’s more modulated and human approach (hey, he was about the only one who said he though Obama’s tears in a recent speech were genuine) gives him a better shot in the general, even though he is poling worse now.
If Rubio wants to win a general election by toxic attacks on half the country as supporting someone who is knowingly and deliberately betraying his own country, that seems really stupid to me, maybe a sign of desperation. Rubio’s people probably know the kind of attacks coming,for SC and maybe this is their weak ass attempt to protect themselves by posturing as the noble boy pure and reactionary enough to sound the alarm against the commie Muslin traitor Obama. I don’t see it working.
Ten days to the GOP SC primary and then we will see where Rubio’s 3-5-3 strategy heads next.
Bobby Thomson
@Goblue72: past. You’re supposed to be a Sanders supporter under this nym/blog combo. Try to keep it straight.
goblue72
@SFAW: It was a temporary poll blip that everybody freaked out over because 24/7 media and the Internet makes every person with a PC into part of the megaphone. We can play What If Hitler had Won World War II all we want, but it didn’t happen and is proof of nothing. And its not like Obama showed up and was superhuman. He just went from a random sub-par debate performance to actually showing up and just putting in an average debate performance. It looked good in contrast to the previous one, but at end of day it was nothing special. But that’s all he had to do – show up.
dedc79
“Tremendous“:
goblue72
@Bobby Thomson: Try not to be an imbecile.
Kay
@NonyNony:
I see what you’re saying but I disagree. Bush can’t compete in CrazyTown. He has to let Trump eat Cruz. Then he has to hope he can create a field where he can run against remaining Crazytown candidate. It’s his only shot.
jl
NH was a tragedy for me because Christie’s ‘deep breath’ turned out to be a death rattle. And I thought these federal prosecutors were dogged and tough and never quit. Christie was yelling and insulting and thugging his way to real Javert cred, and now he wimps out.
Is Christie really a faked-up wimp in disguise? A classic bully who cuts and runs? I feel betrayed.
But, then I forgot. I read a piece about the billionaires old man club that congregates at the GOP confabs, debates, caucus and election days, like horse race gambling junkies to bicker over how their bets are doing. I guess Christie’s sponsors threw in their chips and he has no choice. Sugar daddies cut off his campaign allowance.
Real tough guy, Christie. Federal prosecutor, you know. Coulda been a contender.
bemused
@Kay:
Jeb has got to be moaning it wasn’t supposed to be this hard, not with millions of donor cash.
SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel
@Goblue72:
Heh.
OzarkHillbilly
@Goblue72: Agreed, but I don’t see any way on this planet Rubio is able to beat either Trump or Cruz in today’s GOP. Right now those 2 are splitting the BULLY vote, while Rubio and what is left of the 7 dwarfs are splitting the WIMP*** vote. The WIMP vote comes nowhere near the BULLY vote and as the others drop out, I do not see a significant amount of their support shifting to the last WIMP standing. Sooner or later the MONEY vote is going to start asserting it’s choice and the MONEY vote only cares about winning.
***either definition of WIMP will work for these guys. while not as massive as christie, they certainly interact rather weakly.
Time to get busy, I got baking to do.
low-tech cyclist
If Rubio actually meant what he was saying about Obama, he should have been recruiting House members to file impeachment charges against Obama. But it’s all wingnut rhetoric and posing. He doesn’t mean a word of it, other than as an expression of hatred for Obama. And who knows if even that is real, because they all have to pretend that Obama is worse than Ebola.
goblue72
@Calouste: @Calouste: Pretty much. Its been a long time since the general election debates have been dispositive. The overwhelming number of watchers of TV debates in the general election are partisan who already have strong voter preferences and watch to have their pre-existing choices confirmed. Thus you can ask debate watchers “who won” and you get Candidate X won, but then voters still prefer Candidate Y.
Rubio has weaknesses as far as a candidate. How he would do against Clinton in a foreign policy debate isn’t an important one.
A Ghost To Most
@goblue72: you first.
Skepticat
When do you suppose that Rubio is going to figure out that President Obama is not running for reelection?
boatboy_srq
@Brachiator: @Cacti: I really hate how wardrobe figures into this. Rubio’s shoes strike me as classic fashionable Cuban, which makes going after his shoes sound to me like an ethnic slur and and a dogwhistle anti-Other attack. I also notice that nobody made a big deal of Ammon Bundy’s two-inch-heeled, heavily stitched, sparkly cockroach stompers, though his dress-up-as-an-outlaw-cowboy shtick was pretty laughable. If you’re going to go after Rubio for wardrobe choices, go after him for his last-year’s-outlet-mall-pickings fashion sense as a whole. Or maybe we should all just go after Rubio for being a wind-up toy for the 1% with a couple broken sprockets. There are far better attacks on Rubio than that his campaign can’t put the right shoes on him..
Turgidson
@JPL:
The punditry has given Marcobot wayyyyyy, wayyyyyyy too much credit for knowing his ass from a hole in the ground on foreign policy. Sure, he’s on the Foreign Relations Committee. He also doesn’t show up to its hearings very often, and when he does he says head-trauma-stupid stuff like lecturing Secretary of State John Kerry on how the US isn’t serious about battling ISIS because it doesn’t want to upset Iran. Which makes less sense than drinking motor oil.
But even a lot of liberalish pundits in the “respectable” orbit of the Village have said that he’s substantive and prepared on foreign policy. It’s like they are given a quota of nice things they have to say about GOP candidates in order to keep their jobs and “well, Rubio knows foreign policy better than most of them” is the best they can do. That and some stuff about how Kasich is a moderate, and how Cruz may be a wackjob, but he’s very smart. And Bush is a “wonk” even though he never sounds like he has a clue what he’s talking about.
Hopefully Rubio’s latest battles with stepping on rakes and banana peels will put that bullshit to rest, but I doubt it.
Bobby Thomson
@Kay: no, Bush is better off with the crazier vote split. Christie’s gone, Fiorina will leave soon, and Carson needs to perform soon or he will follow (not that they had many votes). Kasich is cash poor and unpopular outside NH, as opposed to Bush, who is just unpopular. If he can knock Rubio out, Bush has the cash left to keep going. Maybe people still pick Trump or Cruz over him, but it really doesn’t get any better for him than that.
jl
@low-tech cyclist: The main thing about it that hurts Rubio, is that it is so fake. If the media ever decides it is important enough to ask for specifics when a GOPer accuses a Democratic president of treason and hold the accuser to any standard (don’t hold your breath), Rubio will blather on in generalities. I hope he will malfunction and repeat some talking points verbatim, which I think is a real risk here.
Trump can thunder that the Democrats are maybe well-intentioned and sincere, but weak and incompetent, and do it with real conviction, and give people an excuse to go along with his thuggishness and still find a way to feel good about themselves.
With Rubio, people will have to buy into frank and fake ugliness and hatred, that is emotionally transparently fake. Rubio’s delivery is all wrong. He’s like a nervous singer or musician who panics and starts rushing halfway through his epic student recital piece, then loses his breath and can barely finish, and flubs some of the memorized score.
This is all nonsense and pure stupid distilled BS, of course. In a sane campaign, both Trump and Rubio would be cranks who are exiled from the main stage. But we are talking about the GOP primary base here.
Renie
what i don’t get about Rubio speech is that the President isn’t running. Rubio doesn’t even add a qualifier like..and the democrats want to continue Obama’s scheme….
makes him look like he doesn’t know where he is
Kay
@bemused:
Jeb has actually been worried about the insurgents storming the gates for a while. In 2010 he started a “support sane Republicans” group. It went nowhere but I remember reading about an event he held at a pizza place in Virginia.
He knew :)
goblue72
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m not saying it couldn’t turn out the way you outline. Just that its not as certain as folks seem to think, because there is just too much noise still. Its an odd election year for sure. Populist anger amongst the working and middle classes over the great screw job foisted on them by economic elites on both sides of the aisle for the last several decades is finally boiling over. Many voters are rejecting the establishment candidate/s on BOTH sides. On one side you have an economic populist who has been so for a long time and the times are catching up to him. On the other, a carnival barker and TV showman who knows how to work a crowd.
Demi are in a bind – the usual Democratic Establishment answer of “But we made the economy grow and JOBS” is being met with “Yeah but they are all SHITTY jobs!”
I have a hard time seeing Cruz lasting far into the primaries. Its been easy for GOP voters to ignore the Lizard-Man wearing the skin of human so far as long as the Lizard Man is surrounded by Outlaw Jersey Whale, iCarly and her perm-scowl, The Zombie Formerly Known as Ben Carson, and Jeb Bush constantly prat falling on a banana peel. The creepy child molester guy kinda recedes into the background. When it gets down to 3, hard to say. Me, I’m hoping Marc Singer appears on stage with two ferrets and peels Cruz’ face off to reveal the Lizard Man underneath.
Maybe Rubio is bad enough of a campaigner that he can’t easily put a shiv in Cruz, and Trump will play the two of each other enough to keep himself in the game. He can’t land a punch on Trump as long as Cruz is around certainly. I agree that Trump and Cruz are bullies. And head to head, I’m going with the bully that has lips and a pulse to win that match. Question is, can an establishment candidate stick around long enough to go head to head with Trump.
jl
@Renie: Most of the GOPers have a hard time not obsessing over Obama, since the bigotry and racism involved is such a joy and thrill to the GOP primary base. Only Trump is making an intellectually semi-coherent, but emotively coherent and compelling, case connecting his Obama bashing to HRC and Sanders.
Calouste
@Kay:
Winning the establishment primary gets Bush 27% of the vote. What then?
Trump has 35%, undecided is about 9% and the remaining 29% goes to the decidedly non-establishment candidates Cruz, Carson, and Fiorina.
And keep in mind that almost all primaries are winner-takes-most or winner-takes-all. Trump got 35% of the vote in New Hampshire, but he will probably get 55% of the pledged delegates. South Carolina, the next one, is winner-takes-all by district and statewide, which means that a 10% margin could see Trump winning all districts and all the delegates. Even a small win would most likely see the winner pick up 38 or 41 of the 47 pledged delegates.
On Super Tuesday, there are 301 delegates assigned with a 20% threshold, which is almost 25% of the 1,237 delegates needed to win. Unless there is only one establishment candidate at that point, they are very unlikely to get any of those.
Turgidson
@JMG:
By virtue of his youth and background, he allows the Village Idiot media to pretend the GOP hasn’t turned into a party of old, white, bigoted braindead zombies. The media is DESPERATE to believe this fantasy. Utterly desperate. So even though Marco is obviously an empty suit who says the same demented shit all the other GOP ghouls are saying, they are going to continue to believe he’s a shining beacon of tolerance and diversity. The debate malfunction and fallout may force them to give up on that plan, but they’ll jump right back on the bandwagon if Rubio shows even a hint of recovering from it at the next debate or in the next primary.
As I’ve said before, they are chomping at the bit to replay the 2000 election with Rubio as the young, telegenic “nice guy you could have a beer with” version of GWB and Hillary as an even more joyless, aloof scold than they made Gore out to be, and just like with Gore, they’ll bury the needle on the “Hilllary has an honesty problem” chatter (even turning accurate things she says into exaggerations or lies), while they allow Rubio to say whatever the fuck he wants, no matter how false and vile, without repercussion.
If Christie’s murder suicide fragging of Rubio prevents us from having to deal with this, he’ll have done the country a solid.
trollhattan
@SFAW:
Heh. Carly’s head of housekeeping. Whenever there’s a complaint she slips into a hissing German accent, “And vat vas the nature of dis purported inadequacy?”
The staff is housed in a soundproof cellar. There are always job openings on Craig’s List.
Jeffro
@rikyrah: It will likely end up Trump, Cruz, and Bush with Kaisch trailing well behind. There’s your GOP field, folks.
My dad, brother, and I have had a running conversation ever since “Iowa Eve” and between the two of them (both GOP voters) their scenarios of how this all plays out just keep getting more and more outlandish. Between Bloomberg getting in…as a Dem, no less…and of course Hillary’s imminent indictment…and Bernie throwing his support to Bloomberg…or Trump…they are coming up with something best described as Underpants Gnomes Squared.
1) Trump and Cruz lead most of the way through the GOP primaries
2) ?
3) Bush or Kaisch end up the nominee and run against a tremendous, TREMENDOUSLY fractured Democratic party
I swear…
The Other Chuck
Rubio’s rhetoric is really paying off: I’ve heard Obama isn’t even running for reelection!
SFAW
@goblue72:
Yes, because you have perfect knowledge of the alternate realities.
It was “temporary” because Obama’s team worked hard to make it so. Had they been as inept as Hillary’s team, or McCain’s team (for example) it would also have been “temporary,” but X months longer.
I know, I know, it doesn’t fit with your firmly held beliefs of debates not mattering, etc., etc., so therefore it must be wrong.
Kay
@Calouste:
I agree with all that. Trump is the frontrunner. I just think Bush knows he has to beat Trump, eventually, so I don’t include him. There’s nothing else for Bush to do but beat everyone in the establishment primary and hope Republicans coalesce around him as the remaining establishment candidate rather than Trump as he insurgent.
Waspuppet
@S-Curve: It would also be interesting to know why he hasn’t moved for impeachment if he really thinks this is true.
boatboy_srq
@The Other Chuck: One of my biggest giggles with Tentherism is that using their standards an Obama 3rd term would be possible.
The Lodger
@Paul in KY: Attorney General. Think Ed Meese.
Bobby Thomson
@SFAW: it probably hurt his coat tails at the margins. He was on the verge of a blowout.
The Other Chuck
@boatboy_srq: How so?
Sherparick
@JMG: Yes, this is one great mysteries of our time, the MSM political, racetrack, and drama writers who make up the Village Media Press Club certainly yearned for Rubio to be the Republican candidate and use his youngish, “Latin,” good looks, to contrast with the Hilary Gorgon probably was one. But really, he is spouting the worst kind of Glenn Beck and Alec Jones gibberish here. What were they thinking?
It is interesting that so many people who mutually detest each other (the Militant Right Wing, the Village Media, and the Bernie Bros of the Left), unite in hating Hilary. (I have my own problems with Hilary, not trust issues (I think she probably is as honest a politician as they come), but judgement issues. I won’t go through the whole litany, but the Iraq war vote of course, and the decision to go make speeches before Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street banks while still considering a run for the Presidency, add in Libya and Syria (and really not learning to much from all these fiascos – she, Roger Cohen, David Brooks, and Tom Friedman share that common, a conviction that the next invasion and intervention “will be different this time.”)
Sherparick
@Jeffro: Perfect, just perfect.
“The horror, the horror.” Kurtz’s last words, Joseph Conrad’s “The Heart of Darkness.”
El Caganer
@SFAW: Exactly. He’s making a deadly serious accusation and nobody in our beloved MSM has had the moxie to call him on it. Put up or STFU.
Paul in KY
@Jeffro: It sounds quite funny. I don’t know how you would keep a straight face.
Paul in KY
@The Lodger: Good point. Had forgotten the fat bully was a prosecutor.
Brachiator
@boatboy_srq:
Interesting comment. I don’t care. Baby Rubio is un pendejo.
And I don’t dog whistle. Any insult is going to be “in your face.” I don’t care that Rubio is Cubano, or that Ted Cruz is Canadian.
Applejinx
@Gin & Tonic: That’s a really interesting question, and the thing is WE know the real answer. Plenty of us don’t like Clinton or don’t think she’d be pulling in a useful direction, ESPECIALLY in finance or foreign policy, but I can’t deny she’d be effective at pulling in this wrong-but-could-be-worse direction (possibly in finance it could NOT be worse, but damn straight a R would try for worse in foreign policy, if only by order of magnitude)
The problem is, we’re not talking about us. If polling is showing that Rubio would beat Clinton head-to-head in the general election, it’s not a lot of use to argue ‘and that would be bad!’
Yeah we know it would be bad, and yet you can’t go explain to all those people (especially if your mode of conversion is contempt and abuse, which is counterproductive). It would be very bad, and then the result would be what the poll suggested or worse.
As such I think we can all agree that thank goodness the Rs are getting rid of Rubio themselves, because I wouldn’t want to see a Rubio/Clinton election in which we would likely lose. I think they likely will get rid of Rubio, but it’s important to remember that if he’s coached better, being a figurehead doesn’t worry R voters. Look at Bush/Cheney. Worst case scenario is a photogenic, insecure President with a nightmare cabinet, which would be all the usual suspects, back around.
retiredeng
@Turgidson: Rubio’s arrogant ignorance should be his (eventual) downfall but I’m not holding my breath. The media should have squashed Rubio like a bug for his performance in the Iran hearings. Conflating Shia and Suni as the same is why we got into the Iraq mess in the first place.
Applejinx
@dedc79: That is masterful. Christie lands the blows, Trump instinctively lines up his future support by delivering on-the-spot encouragement, right there in the moment. There were any number of things he could have said but he instantly went with the exact thing most likely to lead to Christie’s support of him.
That’s why Trump’s dangerous: he really is pretty good at people-manipulating and can think on his feet behind the bluster. I don’t think that’s quite as dangerous against Sanders, who has things thought out and won’t try to spin them to please you (he would probably try to mock Sanders being a one-note purity pony).
I think that’s kind of dangerous against Clinton, except Clinton also can think on her feet. A Trump/Clinton debate would be freaking riveting, you wouldn’t know what crazy turn it might take, only that they would both be out for blood. I almost want to see that. If we’re stuck with Clinton I’ll definitely console myself by watching the debates, they’d be amazing.
Applejinx
@OzarkHillbilly: The BULLY vote are meant to be secretly figureheads. The WIMP vote are blatantly obviously figureheads, requiring working fingers to sign stuff (see Dubya).
With the BULLY vote the concern is whether they’ll take orders which is why the RNC is shitting themselves.
With the WIMP vote the concern is polling, nothing more. It doesn’t matter if they’re fake or empty so long as they can turn out voters.
PST
@El Caganer:
I wonder whether David Brooks, of all people, is doing that. I haven’t seen much talk here about his column from yesterday, “I Miss Barak Obama”. He goes on at length about how even though he disagrees with many of Obama’s decisions, the President has shown integrity, humanity, dignity, judgment, grace under pressure, and optimism. It is pretty subtle, I admit, and it includes passing digs at Clinton and Sanders, but I think Brooks actually is calling out Rubio and others who go too far in their criticism of Obama for him and his gentle villager friends in the MSM. I thought maybe he was hinting that there are potential Republican candidates so vulgar that they would withhold their support.
Applejinx
While I’m at it: it’s interesting to me how this goes because I have an easier time thinking through the villain characterization. It seems like a lot of people get bogged down in ‘the enemy is EEEVILLL!’ and can’t think out why enemy strategies are working.
For instance, Rubio lecturing Kerry about the USA protecting ISIS so as not to offend Iran. The target audience isn’t us or Kerry, it’s having footage of those talking points for future use with the base. Not strategically stupid, factually stupid (very different things).
In that light I tried to think out how Trump would approach a Trump/Sanders debate. Near as I can figure, Trump’s best tactic there is to go, “See, we got some of the same ideas. We both are talking about making America great, and that’s nice. But Bernie is going to spend a hyooge amount of money and who pays for it? You and I. I think we can agree that he’ll hit me with a bigger chunk of the bill!”
(opportunity for Bernie to go, damn right I will, and get applause)
Trump- “But that’s not thinking big enough and that’s why you can’t elect this idiot Socialist. I will make America great and do TWICE as much as what Bernie Sanders promises, and I will have other countries pay for it!”
And that’d also get huge applause, and all Bernie could do is deny it and say it’s empty hype, at which point Trump would say Bernie’s stuff was empty hype (and privately thank Clinton’s people for laying that groundwork) and there might be no clear winner out of that, poll or media wise. False equivalence: Bernie will build a lot of stuff and claims the savings offset the raising of taxes (especially on the wealthy), Trump will build a lot of stuff and other countries will pay for all of it. Thoughts from the round table of panelists?
Pretty sure that would be his tactic. Trump would not claim to build and do less, he will claim to build and do more than Bernie’s fondest projections, and have somebody else pay for all of it (probably ‘other countries’).
Sherparick
@Turgidson: Something to this. See Driftglass http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2016/02/sunday-morning-comin-down-new.html#linksf
It is amazing the dribble that Village Media hacks write about Rubio. This, from Steve M at No More Mister Nice Blog, can be found in the New Yorker of all places:
“…To watch Rubio up close is to see a man torn between two political identities. One of them is adventurous and charismatic: the promise that it offers is that his rare gifts as a speaker and a judge of the public mood could be employed to revitalize the Republican Party. By demonstrating that a young Latino son of immigrants can be its standard-bearer, he would point the way forward for Republicans in a country of growing diversity. This is Rubio the Natural. The other is self-conscious and risk-averse: this version of Rubio sticks as closely as possible to the script, doesn’t overplay his minority status (at least through the primaries), and avoids making firm commitments for as long as possible: Rubio the Player…. on the debate stage, he chose the latter identity, and paid a price.:” http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/ can be
goblue72
@SFAW: Its not my belief. Its supported by academic studies from political scientists.
But, please proceed with your myth making.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
I don’t understand how Rubio thinks saying this stuff (Obama wants to weaken America) helps him in the Republican primary. Saying Obama is bad for America isn’t giving anyone a reason to vote for the RubiOS bot. It may be a reason to vote against the eventual Democratic nominee but it doesn’t distinguish him as preferable to any of the Republican candidates.
Also, on a larger point, can any of the Republican candidates admit with a straight face that anything they’re proposing to do would be of any actual benefit to the nation? I mean, all they’ve proposed is tax cuts for the rich, being tougher on terrorists in non-specific ways (which probably means rhetoric and nothing else that Obama isn’t already doing) and building a wall on the Mexican border. None of that seems like it would make a vast positive difference and some of it (tax cuts for the rich, especially) is counterproductive.
J R in WV
@Skepticat:
THIS!
But I suppose Robitico is using the Democratic President as a – metaphor, for the whole slate of Democratic candidates and voters.