Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

Also, are you sure you want people to rate your comments?

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Human rights are not a matter of opinion!

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Balloon Juice Bunker Standoff Update Day 41: Surrender is Always an Option

Balloon Juice Bunker Standoff Update Day 41: Surrender is Always an Option

by | 422 Comments

This post is in: 

——UPDATE at 1:59 PM——-

David Fry has walked out of the refuge, surrendered to the FBI, and been taken into custody peacefully. Which is the best resolution possible given the events of the past two hours. Seim and Hall, are, of course, going to continue to blather as its all about them. As is Ammon Bundy’s attorney Matt Arnold.

——-UPDATE at 11:40 AM EST——-

Les Zaitz has just reported on his twitter feed that the FBI has arrested Blaine Cooper.

——-UPDATE at 11:00 AM EST——-

Here’s the live stream going on now, as we prepare for the surrender. Fiore is on right now and once again she’s the voice of reason and moderation in this.

Here’s more on Gavin Seim who hosted last night’s live stream and is hosting this one.

——————————

As we await the end game at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge that is currently scheduled for 8:00 AM PST, more information has trickled in about the situation. Les Zaitz is reporting that Reverend Graham is en route to the refuge to assist with the surrender and that he has been involved with the last four hold outs not only at their request, but also by the FBIs. Of course we still have to see what happens at 8 local time. JJ McNab, on her twitter feed, indicated that when Cliven Bundy was arrested at the airport in Portland, the FBI also arrested Jonathon Skipper Speece, his current head of security, Jason “Joker Jay” Blomgren in a Wal-Mart parking lot. This information comes from that Oregon National Guard staff sergeant who is being discharged for a medical disability while simultaneously taking part, as a Bundy supporter, in the occupation and standoff. Bundy is scheduled to make an initial appearance in Federal court in Portland today at 1:00 PM local time.

Updates after 8:00 AM PST as they become available.

Reader Interactions

422Comments

  2. 2.

    Miss Bianca

    Dear God, they’re still out there? I kind of figured with Papa Bundy in custody they’d all just finally roll over and put their paws in the air.

    ETA: I guess I better catch up with the previous posts. Went to bed in a different world last night…

  6. 6.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca: They’re now updating Fiore who is with the FBI about the things they want to carry out on their persons: Finicum’s bible to be returned to his wife and Sandy Anderson’s purse, which she wants to carry out on her person.

  7. 7.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Reverend Graham is en route to the refuge to assist with the surrender and that he has been involved with the last four hold outs not only at their request, but also by the FBIs.

    Hopefully these men will accept the Lord Jesus Christ into their hearts as their personal Savior and it won’t all have been for nothing.

  8. 8.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    You sir, are an enabler. Seriously, thanks for all your fine coverage of this, and indulging us the way you have done.

    PS Sandy is still pretty wild. I just tuned in & haven’t heard Fry yet. Fiore is w/FBI she says. She wants to know if they’ve had breakfast. They have snacks! Says Sean, who’s still askeered that his life is in jeopardy.

  10. 10.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    This information comes from that Oregon National Guard staff sergeant who is being discharged for a medical disability while simultaneously taking part, as a Bundy supporter, in the occupation and standoff.

    Shove this freeloading traitor into a woodchipper.

  11. 11.

    Soylent Green

    The final four don’t share the Mormon fundy Bundy views. They are aligned with the broader militia movement.

  13. 13.

    Adam L Silverman

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I am hoping I can now go back to doing anything else. I was actually planning on doing a post yesterday on Ted Nugent’s reposting of an anti-Semitic meme on his facebook page, followed by his doubling down on his stupidity by claiming that the Jews were to blame for being victimized by the NAZIs and how this has led to a meltdown within the 2nd Amendment supporter community.

  14. 14.

    Peale

    @Miss Bianca: They want to “turn themselves in” so that this whole misunderstood “camping trip” can end. My guess is that they want to claim that they were good little boys and girls and gave up once they realized that they might have been committing a crime in the hopes that they’ll get let off lightly for being cooperative.

  15. 15.

    Cacti

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Hopefully these men will accept the Lord Jesus Christ into their hearts as their personal Savior and it won’t all have been for nothing.

    Give your soul to Jesus, men. Your ass belongs to the Department of Corrections.

  16. 16.

    dedc79

    Fiore is on right now and once again she’s the voice of reason and moderation in this.

    We know what you mean there, but given the low bar, “reason and moderation” really belong in quotes.

  17. 17.

    gene108

    @Miss Bianca:

    Dear God, they’re still out there? I kind of figured with Papa Bundy in custody they’d all just finally roll over and put their paws in the air.

    Listening to the LiveStream last night, they do not want to go to jail, because they feel they have not broken any laws and/or because they are taking a bold stand for Freedumb.

  18. 18.

    ? Martin

    @Miss Bianca: White Privilege Performance Art requires participants to stay in character through to the end for the message to really resonate with the observer.

  19. 19.

    Cacti

    Now that Papa Bundy is in custody…

    I hear he has some trespassing cattle in southern Nevada.

    Someone might want to take of that (hint, hint).

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    @dedc79: She’s either going to come out of this with a huge boost in her Congressional election bid or seen as a tool of the oppressive Federal government who conspired to trick these four noble, Liberty loving patriots into giving in to their own arrests. Not sure how to handicap it.

  23. 23.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    What a bunch of LARPing morons. These idiots can’t be eliminated from the gene pool fast enough.

  24. 24.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    The worst part about this whole thing is that now I have to walk away with a lot of respect for Fiore. If this ends without a bunch of people getting killed, a lot of credit is due to her.

  25. 25.

    gene108

    @Adam L Silverman:

    She’s either going to come out of this with a huge boost in her Congressional election bid or seen as a tool of the oppressive Federal government who conspired to trick these four noble, Liberty loving patriots into giving in to their own arrests. Not sure how to handicap it.

    I’m going with huge boost.

    She was a champ in talking those guys down last night.

  26. 26.

    Elizabelle

    @dedc79: Yeah. Fiore being “the voice of reason and moderation” says all you have to say about this clusterf*ck.

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Per WaPost, Sandy reports they’ve been eating well. Bacon and eggs and sausage; they have pork and steaks.

    Cleaning well, I cannot say. Will be interesting to see that poor reserve once it’s returned to its rightful inhabitants.

  28. 28.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I was actually planning on doing a post yesterday on Ted Nugent’s reposting of an anti-Semitic meme on his facebook page, followed by his doubling down on his stupidity by claiming that the Jews were to blame for being victimized by the NAZIs and how this has led to a meltdown within the 2nd Amendment supporter community.

    Maybe this will force Ted to finally get treatment for his neurosyphillis.

  32. 32.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @srv:

    So wacko Mormons are going to pray with a Protestant Graham who didn’t believe Romney was an Xtian.

    The Lord works in mysterious ways, my friend. See Romans 8:28.

  34. 34.

    Adam L Silverman

    “Shall not be infringed”, “yes, that means not at all”. Drink and finish the bottle!

  35. 35.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Did they smother David Fry?

    Helm: FBI like kindergarten trolls.

    Fiore: I have to tell you, I’ve written legislation and this has to not impede on 2d Amendment rights.
    Shall not be infringed! twice. Drink!

  36. 36.

    Elizabelle

    @gene108: Wonder if there could be a “Palin effect”, to the negative. I think a lot of Alaskans were surprised to find out what a whack job their governor was. They did not know what those closer to the scene in Wasilla did.

    Las Vegas has a traveling whackadoodle whisperer for a state assembly member. Let’s see if they elevate her to US Congress.

    Not saying she would not fit in there, but …

  43. 43.

    dedc79

    @Adam L Silverman:

    was actually planning on doing a post yesterday on Ted Nugent’s reposting of an anti-Semitic meme on his facebook page, followed by his doubling down on his stupidity by claiming that the Jews were to blame for being victimized by the NAZIs and how this has led to a meltdown within the 2nd Amendment supporter community.

    If you need more material, I see Cruz is in hot water for waiving around his endorsement by the anti-semite Mike Bickle

  48. 48.

    mark

    The Dildo Rebellion of 2016 is whimpering out. Revolutions just aint what they used to be. Old Cliven sure isn’t the Thomas Jefferson of his day.

    Freedom!

  52. 52.

    MikeS

    @Elizabelle: The Malheur Refuge (the vast acreage away fro the office/headquarters has been open for birding and other outdoor activities for a while now. Birding groups like the American Birding Association (the other ABA) are encouraging member to go there and support the local economy even more. You can also make donations to the Friends of Malheur organization that helps with public programs etc. at the refuge. If it were within a days drive for me I would be going there for sure. Sin I live in PA, I will have to settle for Forsythe NWR in Nj or Bombay Hook in DE for this winter.

  54. 54.

    Cheryl Rofer

    The Andersons, who are from Wisconsin, just almost endorsed Congressman Paul Ryan as a good guy, but then said he sold out when he ran for president.

    The implications of this for the presidential race are interesting, but I don’t want to get into that line of speculation until the incident is over.

    OTOH, might not be many implications. Max number of listeners to the live stream last night was around 60,000. There are currently 80,000 on the LIGO livestream, and we know how much that will play in the presidential race.

  55. 55.

    Adam L Silverman

    @bystander: According to Graham he has been involved at the behest of the FBI. I would SWAG that when the hold outs indicated they would listen to him, that the FBI decided that could be useful in resolving this mess.

  57. 57.

    Miss Bianca

    Is this “live cover” footage going to be archived anywhere? I don’t really dare try to listen to it right now, but if I can control myself later I may feel compelled…purely for research purposes, of course…

  58. 58.

    beltane

    They mentioned Bill Ayers. I give these people credit for remembering every single Fox News talking point of the past decade.

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    Victoria Sharp’s Mom just called in to tell them that the FBI is betraying the hold outs and arresting the leaders and members of the movement. And now she’s speaking on behalf of the Lord Jesus Christ and telling the hold outs to make their stand. And now Victoria is on the call.

  61. 61.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Victoria’s mother is now trying to wreck the deal by saying that Cliven has been arrested. Gavin is trying to undo her damage.

    ETA: I particularly liked that she was speaking on behalf of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    ETA2: Graham is with her and she is going to talk to him off-phone.

  64. 64.

    beltane

    I would like Victoria to burst into an old show tune like Ethel Merman. This standoff needs more Mel Brooks.

  66. 66.

    TOP123

    @Adam L Silverman: if we can request free academic work at will (“what a time to be alive”), after your Nugent post is finished, for your next project, I’d be really curious to learn more about how the J4J people fit in with various circles of the right, given that Jew-hatred has always had, as an opposition to an identity, the complex of religion and community and ethnicity to work with.

  68. 68.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve not heard speech specifically designated as on behalf of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    These people are bugshit insane. Victoria has also asked everyone to go there and tell the FBI to stand down. Sean wants to hear her sing in person.

    Sandy is now arguing about bullets in LaVoy’s vehicle. Fiore is urging calm and Graham has just arrived, What she called him. Now she said “Franklin Graham.” I was hoping Gram Parsons returned to drag their asses out.

  69. 69.

    Mj_Oregon

    Graham has finally arrived in Burns. Meeting with Fiore & FBI now. Blaine Cooper has also been arrested. Seems they’re finally scooping them all up.

  74. 74.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    @Adam L Silverman:
    @TOP123:

    I agree with TOP123. That would be a very interesting area of exploration, and I would love to read your thinking. These Bunker Standoff posts have been absolutely fascinating, and I want to thank you for keeping us updated on the whole mess.

  75. 75.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TOP123: you understand that my career, for what it is, is doing cultural operations, Engagement, and strategic analysis for the Army, right?

  77. 77.

    dedc79

    Victoria: “Can we end with a song?”
    Gavin: “Let’s do it quickly”

    I said it last night and i’ll say it again. This would be fantastic performance art. Sadly, it’s real.

  79. 79.

    Iowa Old Lady

    It’s interesting that these people all have records of petty crime. What’s that about? Are they losers who found a cause? Did law enforcement pick them up on petty stuff because they couldn’t get them on bigger stuff?

  80. 80.

    Mj_Oregon

    I wish they’d get that woman off the effing phone and pretend the call dropped. She’s not helping! Damn Graham for being late!

  82. 82.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Adam L Silverman: What does that mean any way? I know devout Hindus who would go to a church or a darga (shrine to a Sufi saint) and they still considered themselves Hindus. If all the roads lead to one God, what does it matter if you pray to Ganesha or Salim Chisti or Jesus.

    I guess I don’t get these Abrahamic faiths.

  83. 83.

    Miss Bianca

    I remember the Jews for Jesus on my campus (early 80s). They were always set up right across from the graduate library, where I liked to study. For some reason, one of the guys took a shine to me and kept trying to buttonhole me. I think he thought I was Jewish…I didn’t have the heart to disabuse him of the notion. But I remember saying, “wait, I thought by definition it was unpossible to be a J4J…”. and that was all it took to start getting an earful. And after that I just started to pick a different route to the library…

  86. 86.

    Adam L Silverman

    Sean Anderson just suggested that the best thing the FBI could do is to kill them. These folks all need a psych eval.

  92. 92.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Fiore and Graham are on their way. Graham is on the phone.

    Fiore says she will tell them what vehicle they will be in when they get to the refuge. It will be one of the armored ones.

  100. 100.

    Felonius Monk

    @Adam L Silverman:

    These folks all need a psych eval.

    I think they are such losers (and they know it) with miserable lives that they want to martyr themselves to show someone they have value. Or they’re on bad drugs.

  105. 105.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mj_Oregon: The Sharp’s did that. And Sean Anderson when Fiore explained that a helicopter would be on site in case of need for medivac.

  107. 107.

    satby

    @Felonius Monk: “The permanent misfits can find salvation only in a complete separation from the self; and they usually find it by losing themselves in the compact collectivity of a mass movement.”
    ― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

  109. 109.

    TOP123

    @Adam L Silverman: yes. And I was joking* with my request. I do think that the J4J set exposes the interesting wrinkle (long obvious, of course) in anti-Semitic tropes, and I’m curious as to how these maroons in the circles we’re discussing respond to it. The NSDAP and the Inquisition, e.g. had clear positions; these scary chuckleheads in our country, I’m not so sure what they think, and I was actually surprised to see the Nugent story, with the little Israeli flags.

    *okay, I actually want to hear your answer, but I know it’s outside of your chosen field, and that you have a job other than answering internet requests for writing.

    **oh, and are you hiring?!? ;)

  110. 110.

    bluehill

    Fiore is an opportunist looking for votes and money. So is Graham. They will go on spouting their conspiracy theories and inflaming these yahoos as soon as this is over.

    Still amazed that Tamir Rice carrying a toy gun gets shot in less than a minute and these idiots brandishing assault weapons are still here after 40 days.

  115. 115.

    Brachiator

    I remember the Jews for Jesus on my campus (early 80s

    I guess it is fitting that there is a discussion about this fringe group in a thread about another fringe group.

    But this Oregon nonsense has commanded too much time for too little point. I’ll be glad when this is over, and happy that casualties were minimal. On to other stories, such as the news about gravitational waves, dude.

  116. 116.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Cheryl Rofer: Coincidentally, I just got an email from my p-doc to tell me his mother in law died last night, and in my condolence reply I confessed that I’m risking my health by listening to the live feed of the snack standoff with the FBI, Fiore, and Franklin Graham.

    Crows are not sinister. Sean’s an asshole.

  119. 119.

    Felonius Monk

    @satby: Thanks for the reminder. Eric Hoffer had a lot of interesting things to say. I haven’t read any of his stuff for a long time. Maybe it’s to get reacquainted.

  121. 121.

    beltane

    I had to shut it off. These people are repetitive and stupid. They are getting the kid glove treatment even by white person standards.

  122. 122.

    satby

    @Felonius Monk: He was an interesting guy, not all of his stuff holds up really well but a lot does. I made most of my kids read True Believer in the hopes of innoculating them a bit against demagoguery. I was thinking of using this quote as well:
    “They who clamor loudest for freedom are often the ones least likely to be happy in a free society. The frustrated, oppressed by their shortcomings, blame their failure on existing restraints. Actually, their innermost desire is for an end to the “free for all.” They want to eliminate free competition and the ruthless testing to which the individual is continually subjected in a free society.” The True Believer, Section 28 (1951)

  124. 124.

    elmo

    So for those of us who are livestream-impaired, is there yet any explanation for their failure to honor their promise to surrender by 0800?

  127. 127.

    Corner Stone

    These people are off their meds and are full on into their own fabulist vision of the world. It reminds me of that one guy you know who always has a better story than the one being told. Always prettier girls, or more dangerous or closer to the edge, or whatever. Just a bunch of whacked out fabulists.

  130. 130.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @elmo: The agreement became that Michele Fiore and Franklin Graham would facilitate the surrender, which would take place when they got there. They are now on their way to the refuge with large numbers of FBI.

  132. 132.

    scav

    This is all about the compassion! Armed Yahoos for Loving Your Neighbor Poster Crucified Children! Compassion! Forgiveness! Camping Stigmata. And Free Range for My Cattle Anywhere I damn well please and the Good Lord Intended!

  133. 133.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ellen: I was very surprised he didn’t drive. If he drove he could have kept his guns on him/carried while driving provided he had a Nevada CCW equivalent and Oregon has reciprocity. By flying, if he wanted to bring a gun with him, he had to check it in accordance with the TSA rules.

  134. 134.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Miss Bianca:

    That’s a thing??? (head has exploded)

    It’s either a real thing or a brilliant way to find someone dumb enough to wear the dynamite vest.

  137. 137.

    scav

    Oh, it’s all like call in radio. Exactly, (only less professional) That and a bit calling to be touched by ranting preacher when you feel the call.

  139. 139.

    Gin & Tonic

    @TOP123: I had an employee back in the 80’s who was a very active J4J um, proselytizer? She started spending every lunch hour out in the big city doing her thing, then lunch hours started getting longer. I had to eventually let her go, which was tricky because of the intersection of HR and religion issues, but in the end I convinced her to resign voluntarily so she could spend all her time doing what was obviously important to her.

  141. 141.

    Adam L Silverman

    @elmo: Logistics. They couldn’t get Fiore and Graham on site by 0800. Most likely Graham’s flight didn’t get in in time. And I’m sure the FBI wanted to brief the two of them about what was and was not going to be allowed in terms of their actions and involvement.

  143. 143.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Fiore missed her calling. She would have been a hell of a hostage negotiator. She’s been doing this for what, twelve hours now? And she has these guys under control.

    This could still go bad if Sandy loses her shit, but otherwise it’s been handled very well.

  145. 145.

    SarahT

    @Adam L Silverman: @JPL: They’re absolutely a cult and freakin’ nuisance in subway stations, too. I take every opportunity to “accidentally” elbow them out of my way or step on their feet. If I could get away with “accidentally” shoving one of them down a stairway or escalator, I surely would. Apologies to all my Hebrew school teachers and Rabbis for the bad behavior on my part, but of the many annoying cult members ranting away in NYC’s subway stations, these guys work my last nerve.

  146. 146.

    J R in WV

    You know, Adam, you and some of the others here could do a real quick book about this religious cult, and make a quick $50 or a $100 – maybe.

    I’m sure there will be some books from the far loon perspective, perhaps there should be at least one from the intellectual perspective?

    I gotta go to town, but I DO plan to have a drink (or few) in honor of the mass arrests taking place today once I get to Tucson, and no longer plan any activity more complicated than walking back to my room.

    Thanks for providing all this info in such a timely and professional manner! It speaks well of your abilities in your career path~!

  147. 147.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I also gotta say that keeping these guys focused on the phone and feeding them their own drivel back to them has worked wonders. Me, I’m falling asleep. So tedious. But needful. Gotta get these guys out.

  148. 148.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Fiore and Graham about to transfer vehicles. Getting into armored vehicle. “Obey their commands so I can meet you and hug you.” Sean: “I promise you.”

  149. 149.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ellen: Looks like the FBI got the TSA/DHS to put a hold on him so he couldn’t fly with Fiore and the other state legislators she assembled to travel with to Oregon. This way he was isolated on a later flight and it was easy to arrest him without creating a scene. As this stuff comes out, that Fiore convinced him to fly last night, that she’s been the go between with the FBI, I fully expect the next conspiracy will be either that Fiore has always been a government plant/informant/stooge or the government is blackmailing him into working with them.

  151. 151.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @beltane:

    They are getting the kid glove treatment even by white person standards.

    I was the one saying to make sure they are saved, praise the Lord, and then send in the snipers. This ridiculous coddling is just going to cause the next insurrection and the next one and the next..

  152. 152.

    Adam L Silverman

    @J R in WV: Actually I’m adapting my two posts – the one on the composite ideology/doctrine behind the occupation and the one on how what the Bundy’s were doing was an attack on the domestic American gray zone – and the post I did on IS attacking the gray zone into an article for submission at The Journal for the Scientific Study for Religion. We’ll see if it makes it through peer review.

  154. 154.

    John

    Listening to these guys is a hoot. It’s great that the militia stayed there, they actually fixed the place up!

  156. 156.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Adam L Silverman: The fact that being blocked from his first flight and then being allowed to fly without the rest of his companions on the next one didn’t signal to him that he was going to be arrested leads me to believe that he’s even stupider than I thought.

  159. 159.

    Cheryl Rofer

    KrisAnne is covering nicely for Michele when she’s not available. Look for her being added to the conspiracy Adam mentioned. Good timing on the part of the FBI.

  160. 160.

    dr. bloor

    Fiore is on right now and once again she’s the voice of reason and moderation in this.

    I’ll take “Stuff you’ll never hear again” for eleventy-billion, Alex.

  163. 163.

    daverave

    As a lover of western public lands and my ability to use them, I’ve been following this story for the 40+ days pretty much daily. The one good thing that has come out of it on a personal level is that I’ve finally connected the dots between these Sagebrush Rebellion idiots and BEEF. I haven’t consumed any since 1/1 and likely won’t for the rest of my life. For these ranchers, their actions must have consequences on as many levels as possible as far as I am concerned. Thrilled that Cliven is now jailed.

  166. 166.

    WarMunchkin

    What, exactly, is this? I turned this on and got some sharia law discussion. I had to turn it off and bleach my ears.

    ETA: I don’t know what the content is, I just heard “sharia law” and assumed it was some VRWC stuff.

  168. 168.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gin & Tonic: He and his wife have, in multiple forums, indicated they don’t like to fly and don’t fly. My guess is he really had no idea what it meant. He’s not only epistemically closed off on his understanding of America and his religion, but actually how things work for the rest of us.

  169. 169.

    bemused

    Seim said any mess left behind is the fault of the government for “terrorizing” the people.

    I could vomit.

  170. 170.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    There’s a lot of people I don’t consider Americans.

    Killing babies. Drink!

    Who’s the female idiot talking about liberty and the invalidity of the federal government? Is that Hall?

  174. 174.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TOP123: We’ll see. I have little faith in peer review. Which is why I do so little work for academic/scholarly journals. The process itself is all too often horribly broken – blind review is near impossible these days do to the Internet availability of conference papers/abstracts, there are far too many dubious studies that get debunked/retroactively pulled published, and far too many big names who can get anything published no matter how bad because they are assigned to easy reviewers, while those establishing themselves doing excellent work get raked over the coals. And I say this as someone that gets asked to peer review between six and twelve articles a year. I also dislike the fact that the publishers, not even the folks working at the journals, making a ton of money selling publications back to institutions who’s employees have done the work being sold back to them. I’m sure there’s a better way out there, but I have no idea what it is.

    And as someone who has had his work plagiarized, let alone republished without permission, I think the whole thing is one big scam.

  177. 177.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    It’s an audio feed of dogwhistles. Damn, I know they NEED to keep these idiots talking, but fuck, this is like listening to a bunch of drunks at the Foreign Legion bar at 1AM.

  180. 180.

    dedc79

    This has turned into a KrisAnne informercial. She’s probably never had an audience like this. I’m only surprised she’s not reciting her 800 number and website address where listeners can buy her books and t-shirts. “Buy before we surrender, and we’ll throw in a free copy of ‘Roots of LIberty: Home School Edition'”

  182. 182.

    Helen

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    It’s the over-reach of the Federal government, DUH!

    They are simply spewing Fox talking points without having a clue what they are saying. Nothing more.

  184. 184.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WarMunchkin: KrissAnne Hall, a disgraced former Florida assistant state attorney (prosecutor) who has made a career for herself working the seam between the Tea Party and the militia/patriot movement and by being a professionally put upon victim. Sharia Law is a bugaboo with these folks. I’m amazed we haven’t heard Agenda 21 in either last night’s or this morning’s live stream.

  185. 185.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: She also said “a 5 year old understands ‘shall not’ – why can’t lawyers and judges?”

    That last may be wrong. But in my experience, 5 year olds don’t understand “shall not” they get “don’t.”

    Oh, she’s “amused.” Will she please stop being shouty?

  187. 187.

    MCA1

    Ha ha ha! Listening to these idiots is hilarious. Some woman just said (slightly paraphrased) “We don’t need a violent revolution. We need a revolution of the mind, to help people understand what liberty really feels like, how beautiful and amazing it is.” Wow.

    Now I’m hearing bagpipes.

  193. 193.

    Adam L Silverman

    The surrender is starting. They’ve indicated the order of who’s going out to surrender.

  195. 195.

    Iowa Old Lady

    It’s all just unmoored raving. And yet, apparently a bunch of people take it seriously.

    Someone last night said listening to this was like being a fly on the wall of an insane asylum.

    ETA: Holy shit. Bagpipes?

  201. 201.

    bluehill

    @John:

    I was thinking, “is it wrong to want them to be shot?” – just a flesh wound.

    Assuming these guys can surrender properly, I’m wondering what kind of punishment they will face. Any jail time? They committed felonies, didn’t they?

  202. 202.

    Gin & Tonic

    Those of you who are apparently being forced at gunpoint to listen to the live feed should call your local police and report the threat.

  203. 203.

    farthestnorth

    Is that a bagpipe?

    Is Sandy A. really pregnant? at 48? seems unlikely, though I had one at 42 and my grandmother at 45 so I suppose it’s possible, especially with tech today. But who would subject an unborn baby to that stress

  207. 207.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    “We’re coming out; Sandy and I.”

    “COMIN OUT”

    Gavin: “Are they being gentle?”

    You cannot make this shit up.

  208. 208.

    Adam L Silverman

    @farthestnorth: I thought that was what was reported. Last night, however, MJ_Oregon indicated that isn’t the case. So I guess we’ll find out when we get video footage of her later.

  209. 209.

    bystander

    @Adam L Silverman:

    you understand that my career, for what it is, is doing cultural operations, Engagement, and strategic analysis for the Army, right?

    Have you met Baud? He may be just the guy you’re looking for.

  213. 213.

    George Montgomery

    @TOP123: I first heard mention of J4J in a Herman Wouk novel, “The Winds of War”. One of the protagonists was a Jewish author and intellectual who was interested in the movement. The novel was first published in 1971, so I guess J4J has been around for quite some time.

  214. 214.

    Miss Bianca

    OMG, I couldn’t resist tuning in, whhhyyyy…

    ‘JOHN LOCKE’ YOU MORAN??

    ETA: “We’re not surrendering the war. We’re standing for peace.” WTF…

  216. 216.

    SoupCatcher

    I’m not a big fan of the play-by-play and color commentary on this broadcast. Too much talking over the action. Vin Scully wept.

    eta: Yes, that was tongue in cheek. And what was that yell?

    UNLESS MY GRIEVANCES ARE HEARD, I WILL NOT COME OUT.

  217. 217.

    wvng

    It really is remarkable listening to this “constitutional expert” lady spouting an endless stream of factually wrong things.

    They are surrendering right now.

  220. 220.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Constitutional scholar Kris Ann Hall holds forth.

    Fry reports that Jeff has walked out.

  223. 223.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    I assume Sgt. McKenzie is because they were expecting to be gunned down as they stepped out?

  225. 225.

    teagan

    I love how they keep saying be careful because the FBI is skittish. Right. It’s the FBI who are skittish. As Fry is ready to lose it.

  227. 227.

    Peale

    @MCA1:

    “We don’t need a violent revolution. We need a revolution of the mind, to help people understand what liberty really feels like, how beautiful and amazing it is.” Wow.

    Jeebus. If a screenwriter submitted this, the movie might win a razzie and maybe an all decade worst.

    If this is what a free mind is like, I’ll take a pass.

  228. 228.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Will somebody link to the perp walk?

    Fry is lighting a cigarette; Gavin tells him to move slowly “these guys are skittish.”

    Now Fry is screaming. Tense moments; he’s not real stable. Now he’s balking and screaming.

  233. 233.

    TOP123

    @Adam L Silverman: my (close family member) is currently working in a climate science related field dealing with national maritime security. Because I write well (assumes books not in evidence ;) ), I’ve been asked to see work pre-production. Holy moly. I can only begin to imagine what you deal with.

  240. 240.

    dedc79

    Commence the airing of grievances:

    Running around this run-down, one-horse town
    One of these days, they’re gonna crucify me
    How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable it is to be young, dumb, and have lots of money

    We will sit upon this grassy knoll
    Holding hands and stroking handguns
    With pristine souls, and even my own mother will tell you I am an asshole
    But underneath it all, there is an apathetic heart of gold
    So who will be saved, from the least to the greatest men
    Because even Honest Abe sold poison milk to schoolchildren

  242. 242.

    Chip Daniels

    @WJS:

    It’s not a surrender if they don’t stack their rifles and hand over their swords.

    And somethingsomething flag with gold fringe.

  243. 243.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: Livestreamed suicide is not a pretty thought; he’s just announce he’s feeling suicidal. Fiore is trying hard to talk him down.

  244. 244.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    I’m at work and can’t watch, but reading through this thread and the fucktardery herein is beyond even pointing and laughing. The full on derangement – it’s like watching some of those strange animal rituals on National Geographic.

  245. 245.

    Randy P

    Isn’t it standard police procedure now when dealing with mentally ill people, to shoot them?

    I’m not really wishing for that outcome. I’m hoping he is successfully and peacefully arrested, but depressed at the number of stories I’ve read where somebody called 911 for help dealing with a mentally ill relative only to have them shot by police.

  246. 246.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TOP123: I haven’t written anything for peer review in over five years. I’ve done over 40 strategic level reports for the Army, Joint Force, DOD, and/or Interagency partners in that time and dozens of much smaller notes and info papers. And that’s not counting what I did for my BCT in Iraq. Most of these 40 plus reports are article length. Some much longer. I’m very pleased with what I’ve done, and to be honest, feel they have had a bigger impact by being injected into the planning and consideration of senior military and civilian leaders than if I’d written them up and had them published in peer reviewed journals.

  249. 249.

    MCA1

    Yeah, I don’t think I’m going to continue listening to this. This last holdout’s a threat to himself.

  251. 251.

    bluehill

    Good god, as if he hasn’t already aired his grievances enough. Come on just say it, “I don’t want a n@#$%^ as President.”

  252. 252.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mj_Oregon: Yep, he’s going to lose it and commit suicide by cop. I hope I am wrong, and am pleasantly surprised, but I fully expect him to get himself killed today. He just said he never agreed to surrender last night, which, perhaps, explains why he was so quite during last night’s livestream.

  253. 253.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Scripture – Paul and Cyrus. Drink!

    I admit I feel dirty mocking a suicide in progress, but dayumm.

    @Adam L Silverman: I agree, and wish he wouldn’t.

  255. 255.

    Miss Bianca

    “we know they’re not honorable, but you have honorable people on your side.”

    Jesus wept.

    ETA: Your tax money is specifically NOT going toward abortion, dipstick. That’s the one thing you can COUNT on its not going toward.

  256. 256.

    CaseyL

    No, it makes sense to leave David Fry for last. He and Sandy Anderson were the most unstable of the lot. Get the marginally less crazy ones out first. Then, if anything goes south, there’s only the hard core loonies.

  257. 257.

    farthestnorth

    Why isn’t this shitshow being covered by CNN MSNBC? You know if it were a bunch of Muslims it would be wall to wall

  259. 259.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @bluehill:

    That’s really what did it, isn’t it. It’s been amazing to watch PBO’s very existence literally threaten people’s basic sanity.

  261. 261.

    schrodinger's cat

    How has this been covered in the international media? Is everyone pointing and laughing? I haven’t seen much on BBC or Indian news sources.

    ETA: It is right on top of BBC’s America and Canada site.

  264. 264.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: Christ he’s just declared war against the US government. Fiore is being a mensch, but is a tad out of her league as he dissociates further.

  269. 269.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I hate this fucking asshole – and he is an asshole – but also really don’t want him to die just because he’s a fucking moron.

  271. 271.

    CaseyL

    Fry will be Fry’d, and no one will cry.

    Maybe I should be more sympathetic, because he’s clearly come completely unraveled, but I’m not.

  275. 275.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lgerard: It won’t matter. All he has to do is train the weapon toward the Feds and pull the trigger. He doesn’t have to hit anything.

  276. 276.

    Adam L Silverman

    I agree with JJ McNab: they need to get Seim and Hall to shut up and get Fiore back on with him.

  278. 278.

    Mj_Oregon

    LaVoy Finicum became David Fry’s role model during the occupation and I think he wants to emulate him. His father and grandfather have said they’re concerned he will commit suicide by cop and it appears that’s what’s happening here. This is so sad.

  279. 279.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: It sounds like Fiore telling him her 9 year old needs to see him step out of there, I’m confused. I didn’t think KAH could sound that rational, but now I think I hear Fiore in the background.

    Gavin is also trying to talk him down.

    @Adam L Silverman: Word. Just let Fiore talk. Maybe with Graham?

  281. 281.

    Steve from Antioch

    Fiore is doing a fantastic job. Yes, I know she’s a wingnut. She has to be being helped by FBI.

    There were several time listening to the “Patriots” when they said things that made me think for sure I would hear gunshots next. Everytime, Fiore has talked them down.

  282. 282.

    Adam L Silverman

    He just yelled to Fiore “I didn’t know you before this”. He’s coming apart fast.

  283. 283.

    satby

    Actually, if the FBI all is under safe cover and he doesn’t hit anything, they don’t actually have to shoot him either. At which point he’ll probably blow his own brains out.

  285. 285.

    farthestnorth

    Lordy we need effective mental health care services in this country. This is the sort of incoherent gibberish I heard from clients at the mental health court I used to work at.

  286. 286.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    This is amazingly sad and scary and infuriating and mind-blowing and hypnotic, all at the same time.

  287. 287.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Fiore is doing a fantastic job. Yes, I know she’s a wingnut. She has to be being helped by FBI.

    @Steve from Antioch: Yes, obviously she is, but she’s got some real talent for it.

    This guy is ready to rock. I thought we’d be able to pull this off without bloodshed, but he’ll put one through his head pretty soon if nothing else.

  289. 289.

    Mj_Oregon

    The woman who is talking on the feed is not Fiore but KrisAnne Hall. And she just called David a coward for not wanting to be strong and come out. They need to get her OFF THE PHONE and a real suicide intervention specialist talking to him.

  290. 290.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    He’s not getting calmer and screamed “don’t call me a coward.” Oops she just told him to “do the brave thing.”

  291. 291.

    CaseyL

    BTW – Thanks much to people who can listen to the feed and report on it. I’m at work, so can’t tune in.

  298. 298.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I don’t think there’s anyone who could stop this guy from killing himself at this point.

    Agree KrissAnne is not really helping here.

  299. 299.

    lgerard

    Pretty strange to see these two wingnuts now arguing against the rhetoric they have been spouting all along

  301. 301.

    Miss Bianca

    Oh no, you start comparing yourself to Jesus at a moment like this and that’s the beginning of the end…

    And honestly, however much real hostage negotiators get paid, it can’t possibly be enough.

    “I was the first one in my family to go to jail…”

  302. 302.

    Steeplejack

    I flipped over to Fox News to see if they are covering the standoff. So far I am three minutes into a commercial block, including William Devane doing a “Buy gold!” ad for Rosland Capital.

    “Buying gold from Rosland Capital helps protect me against runaway inflation and all that paper money being printed around the world by unstable governments.”

    And they’re back—to their regular programming, currently Outnumbered, with “four female panelists and one male colleague sharing their perspectives on the day’s top news stories bashing Obama.”

    And that commercial block was at least four minutes long, probably five: eHarmony, Phazyme (“relieves gas”), Volkswagen Passat, Jeff Foxworthy for Golden Corral, William Devane for Rosland Capital, Duluth Trading (outerwear), Bella Wood (flooring), Eggland’s Best (eggs, duh).

    . . . Okay, I stayed on until the top of the hour to see if they would start coverage of the Oregon standoff. After all, the show is Happening Now (“breaking news reports”). And . . . nothing. Ditto on CNN (Wolf), Headline News and MSNBC. Not even a mention on the news crawl at the bottom. WTF.

  303. 303.

    NorthLeft12

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    now I have to walk away with a lot of respect for Fiore. If this ends without a bunch of people getting killed, a lot of credit is due to her.

    Really? My [uninformed and completely from the gut] opinion is that pretty much all of the Final Four had no interest in giving up their lives for this cause/bird sanctuary, and in fact seemed genuinely terrified that they would be executed by the Feds. I gotta give the LEOs credit in this case for not ramping up the stress and violence…….which was completely against most of the valuable advice given freely by myself and others on here and other sites.

  306. 306.

    bluehill

    If there’s a plus side to all of this, maybe more people will realize how people like Fiore, Hall, and Fox news drive these idiots over the edge. How different is it from ISIS trying to recruit people?

    This poor sod has been duped. He really thought the country was going to rally to his side and now he can’t face the realization that he was lied to.

  309. 309.

    Adam L Silverman

    What I want to know is where Fry’s parents are. He was on vacation with him when he decided to leave them and go to Oregon and offer his IT and hacker skills to Ammon Bundy. You’d think at some point the Feds would’ve pulled them in to try to help them get their son to calm down.

  310. 310.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: She just told him LaVoy got killed when he got out with his hand up to surrender. Way to defuse this, idiot; that’s going to encourage him to get out. She needs to shut. the. fuck. up

  311. 311.

    farthestnorth

    Why are they letting these idiots talk to him when a skilled negotiator is so clearly needed? Pull the plug already

  313. 313.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JPL: This isn’t Fiore on the live stream/call. Its KrisAnne Hall an attorney and patriot/militia intellectual from Florida.

  315. 315.

    Seanly

    Looks like just one idiot left, but it’s David Fry – wasn’t he a known anti-Muslim & anti-Semitic crackpot before all this? From the reporters’ tweets he sounds like he wants to die by FBI.

  318. 318.

    Adam L Silverman

    @farthestnorth: If they turn on the cell jammers, he’ll take it that the FBI is coming to kill him and do something stupid. As bad as this is, and as much damage as Seim and Hall are doing, as long as he’s talking its a good thing.

  319. 319.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m not sure they’d cooperate as Dad may share some of the views, based on limited local coverage.

    Fry’s scared of being raped in prison, he said.

    @Adam L Silverman: True enough. Everybody’s walking a fine line of not escalating. I’m not sure any of it will work. He won’t even listen to Graham (I think that’s who’s talking in the background).

  323. 323.

    Soylent Green

    I was the one saying to make sure they are saved, praise the Lord, and then send in the snipers. This ridiculous coddling is just going to cause the next insurrection and the next one and the next..

    Yes, there will be more insurrections. And they will be just as ridiculous as this one. But if you martyr them, you make more Tim McVeighs. I am writing this from the Portland Federal Building, thus not too keen to see a truck bomb parked outside.

  324. 324.

    Miss Bianca

    Don’t kill yourself because PIZZA.

    Actually, I could get behind that as a philosophy of life…

  325. 325.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Pointing a gun at my head. Not good words.

    I told you all exactly what I would do. I told you I would kill myself.

  333. 333.

    D58826

    @Adam L Silverman: The day just keeps getting better. Seems like slow/steady and patiently waiting for the other guy to make a mistake can work. I hope Clive has a good cow sitter because I don’t think he is going to see them for a long long time. I just wonder why he was so stupid as to lease his fortified base camp in Nevada and place himself within reach of the FBI

  334. 334.

    Miss Bianca

    Oh boy…”all I needed was my marijuana! You guys wouldn’t even let me have that!”

    You know, I never, ever thought I’d feel anything but contempt for these guys. Now I just feel sort of sorrowful.

  338. 338.

    Capt. Seaweed

    A six-count criminal complaint was filed Thursday in Las Vegas against Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy stemming from the April 2014 armed standoff with federal law enforcement officers.

    Bundy, 74, who was arrested in Portland late Wednesday, was charged with leading a “massive armed assault” against authorities outside his ranch.

    According to the FBI complaint, the federal felony charges against him include conspiracy, assault on a federal law enforcement officer, obstruction of justice and extortion.

  341. 341.

    dedc79

    Congress should honor David Fry by proposing and passing The David Fry Act of 2016, which would again make it a crime to bring weapons into National Parks and Wildlife Refuges, regardless of the law of the state in which the park/refuge is located.

  342. 342.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    And he “doesn’t care about the movement any more.”

    There goes that line of persuasion.

  343. 343.

    boatboy_srq

    @Adam L Silverman: Not listening, but I can imagine: “Give us this day our daily Freedumbs, as we take what is ours from the Godless Soshulists…” Gun-Totin’ Capitalist Jeebus ain’t ridin’ no T-Rex to their rescue anytime soon.

  345. 345.

    PaulW

    @Capt. Seaweed:

    According to the FBI complaint, the federal felony charges against him include conspiracy, assault on a federal law enforcement officer, obstruction of justice and extortion.

    Whoa, those are some heavy charges.

  347. 347.

    Adam L Silverman

    @D58826: Here are the charges:
    Conspiracy to Commit An Offense Against the United States
    Assault on a Federal Law Enforcement Officer
    Use and Carry of a Firearm In Relation to Committing a Crime of Violence
    Obstruction of the Administration of Justice
    Interference with Commerce by Extortion
    Aiding and Abetting

  349. 349.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    He’s going down. I’m not sure I’ve got it in me to listen to a suicide, even as much of a racist freak as he is.

    I’ve lost lots of friends to suicide, but have never been there for the act.

  351. 351.

    Adam L Silverman

    @satby: No, its KrissAnne Hall and Gavin Seim. They’re talking to him as if he was an evangelical Protestant, but he’s not, he’s a Jew for Jesus, so they’re talking apples and aardvarks.

  354. 354.

    Chip Daniels

    IANAL, so maybe someone can help out with a question I have been thinking since Bundy’s standoff in 2014.
    Instead of physically trying to take his cows to satisfy his grazing fees debt, couldn’t BLM just have a court order to freeze his bank account?

    This way it doesn’t provide a physical place and time where to hold a demonstration and armed resistance.

  355. 355.

    Mnemosyne

    @TOP123:

    There are the J4J’s, who are ethnic Jews who converted to a Christian cult, but there’s also this weird group that calls themselves “Messianic Jews.” They’re Christians who have basically decided to cosplay as Jews based on their reading of the King James Version of the Old Testament. That’s a whole other level of bizarre wackiness. One of the murder victims in San Bernardino was one of those, and apparently used to get into loud religious arguments with his Muslim coworker.

  361. 361.

    Mj_Oregon

    This young man is mentally ill and we are listening to him trying to either work up the courage to end it or to walk out. He was always the wild card after he arrived at the refuge and most of the others wouldn’t give him the time of day. He was trying to fit in and be a help. Can’t listen to this anymore.

  364. 364.

    Peale

    So, maybe if they put a joint on a fish hook and cast it at the doorway, they could lure him out. Or chum the air with that skunky smell?

  367. 367.

    Aleta

    Wish FBI would give him a concession. He doesn’t belong in jail anyway; he’s got enough mental illness to hopefully get treated instead.

  369. 369.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    He’s telling the FBI he doesn’t want to be put behind bars because he hasn’t killed anybody.

  372. 372.

    Adam L Silverman

    @satby: He occasionally talks to Fiore and Graham and the FBI negotiator on a different phone. He’s calmer when this happens. Regardless, its clear he’s cycling. And he just said he’s a Messianic Jew.

  374. 374.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @LAO: They are absolutely not fucking around. And that was my belief (hope) all along. They don’t have a statute problem, and waited to arrest him safely.

  377. 377.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: With that announcement he’s told them that their protestant bullshit doesn’t appeal to him. His religion tells him dying is more honorable.

    He’s going down. I don’t think it can be salvaged. Mental illness can be fatal.

  378. 378.

    Mj_Oregon

    @satby:

    Yeah, I read that about the bed right after I clicked the post comment button. Such pain on display and so many narcissistic idiots completely oblivious to what they’re doing to move him toward the wrong decision.

  379. 379.

    Miss Bianca

    @satby:

    As long as they can keep him talking, he won’t be shooting, himself or anybody else…but Lord, get someone else in there talking to him. I’d be considering violence against myself just to get away from Hall and whatshisname.

  380. 380.

    Helen

    He finally told them that he is Jewish, not Christian, and those two God Botherers STFU because they had nothing else to say. Threw them for a loop.

  381. 381.

    farthestnorth

    Totally disassociated from reality. Now he’s a Messianac Jew? Sad. He is half Japanese apparently a weird bullied kid with mental health issues, and has posted proISIS (Nuke Israel!) stuff.

  382. 382.

    gene108

    He’s talking about shooting himself…he’s so close to pulling the trigger…god it’s sad…

  386. 386.

    LAO

    Aliens. I actually feel sorry for this kid — he has been so ill served by his education, the right wing loonies he follows — just everything.

  388. 388.

    gene108

    He’s onto UFO’s…

    He gave them a hook…man is a builder, I am a builder…

    Grrrr…you can’t build, if your dead…

    He does not care that much about “your fight” lady…

  390. 390.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @LAO: I agree. And I’ve seen the feds when they don’t fuck around. Before court last week, my co-counsel on the case and I were trying to figure out if our bank robber client from 18 years ago (we gave it a valiant effort!) has served out his sentence yet.

    And I assume you’re not a right wing loon personally also!

  394. 394.

    Steeplejack

    “Obama’s a traitor.”

    What happens when my bingo card gets too full? Do we have second-round meta cards?

    ETA: Sorry to joke, but this has gone so far it’s looking at theater of the absurd in the rear-view mirror.

    I hope the kid comes out of it alive.

  395. 395.

    Adam L Silverman

    @wvng: The prosecution will ask that he be denied bail or other form of release as a flight risk, danger to the community, etc.

  396. 396.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    So…Syria was a, “…pretty democratic…,” nation before the uprising? Realllly?

  399. 399.

    Adam L Silverman

    Mistermix has a nice clean thread about this upstairs. I have to head out for a while – most of the afternoon really, so hopefully this resolves peacefully.

  400. 400.

    bluehill

    When this is over, ideally with Fry still alive, I hope that it will dawn on some of the other “believers” that they have been duped too. I’m sure they are following this situation closely. For some, it will probably only harden their views, but maybe for a few that have been questioning what they have been told this will be enough to get them to walk away.

  401. 401.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    If everybody says Hallelujiah, I’ll come out. Will you do that?

  410. 410.

    Mj_Oregon

    He’s out. and I’m crying. Thank whatever-supreme-being you pray to for a successful resolution.

  411. 411.

    farthestnorth

    Thank whatever weird god he may believe in! Now he can get some psychiatric help. Prisons are the biggest providers of mental health services

  412. 412.

    Adam L Silverman

    Its over. He’s surrendered to the FBI, been arrested, and Seim and Hall and Bundy’s attorney Matt Arnold are continuing to blather because this is clearly all about them. I’m out of here for the afternoon. Play nice or I’ll arrange for KrissAnne Hall to be the entertainment at your next birthday party!

  415. 415.

    MCA1

    Thank goodness. I’ve just been refreshing here from time to time, but couldn’t listen for fear of what sounded like it was about to happen. Now streaming again…

    Listening to this jackwad Seim, though, wow. This is all about how the government won’t listen to people like David Fry, and it’s no wonder he’s so scared? C’mon, man. The woman was clearly attuned to the emotional aspects of the fact that she just spent two hours on suicide intervention and was close to sobbing, overcome with relief that it ended without bloodshed. This guy goes straight back to F the government within like 5 seconds.

  416. 416.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ll declare myself an enemy combatant of yours and claim a violation of the Geneva Convention. See you at the Hague, motherfucker!

  420. 420.

    D58826

    @Adam L Silverman: Heck at his age a conviction on even one or two of the charges amounts to a life sentence. I don’t feel sorry for him; he made his choice and now he gets to be the guest of that non-existent federal government for a long time.

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