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You are here: Home / Live Suicide Watch

Live Suicide Watch

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Jebus help me I’ve fallen into the black hole of listening to the last hold-out at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, the clearly mentally ill David Fry, talk to some Christian nutbags on the live stream. He has threatened suicide many times, and these people are keeping him talking, and arguing with him, diverting him from talking with the FBI negotiator.
“UFOs are real. You know the little alien things that fly around…The secret inventions act of 1951…We should be dependent on solar, not oil…”

If you’ve ever had a doubt about the amount of mental illness involved in these militia movements, listen for a few minutes, if you think you can stomach listening to a suicide attempt broadcast live.

Update: The awful people on the call are KrisAnne Hall, “Constitutional Attorney, Author, Speaker, Radio Host” [and worst suicide hotline operator on earth], and Gavin Seim, “Pictorialist, Portraitist, Civil Liberty Activist, Speaker, Christian”.

“So you guys [Gavin and KrisAnne] are Obama lovers now? … I should have called one of those Muslim Clerics … I wish I had the chance to talk to a real Muslim Cleric”

Update2: He turned himself in.

Reader Interactions

213Comments

  1. 1.

    dr. bloor

    Pity they couldn’t get him out ahead of the others. He’s feeling so cornered at this point, the Feds could back off and let him walk out on his own without any real adverse consequences. Easy enough to scoop him up later.

  2. 2.

    Terry

    I think they have an FBI guy talking to him. These others are not helping. In fact they are feeding his paranoia. Especially the woman.

  3. 3.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Terry: There are two phones. One is captured on the live stream with Seim and Hall, the other is the FBI negotiator, Fiore, and Graham.

  4. 4.

    Paul in KY

    I guess if he is bugfuck crazy, I hope he gets the mental help (in a secure facility) that he needs.

  5. 5.

    Mnemosyne

    I don’t have the heart to listen. It’s so upsetting when people with major mental health issues get lured into these kinds of groups, because they just get worse and worse, and the narcissists who operate the groups feed off that pain.

  6. 6.

    dr. bloor

    @Terry: KrisAnne Hall is in this for one thing, and that’s KrisAnne Hall’s brand. She’s broken every fucking rule as to how to talk someone down.

    Raging narcissists are lousy negotiators. Whocouldanode?

  18. 18.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    @Terry: Well, my guess is that they don’t give a shit about him. I guess they have their own reasons for horning in on this. Most likely they think it’ll help them raise money from paranoid losers, though how it’ll help I don’t know. But never underestimate the willingness of paranoid losers to hand their money over to soulless dickheads, so I guess they’re on the right track. Assholes.

  21. 21.

    GregB

    One of the curses of the instant media world is that allowed so many more bonafide mentally ill people to increase their message reach.

    30 years ago these addled folks were reduced to photocopied screeds left on windshields at the supermarket or a barely listened to Ham radio broadcast.

    Now their messages are heard far and wide. Knowing a few people with paranoid aspects to their mental illness I have no desire to hear it in action.

  22. 22.

    dr. bloor

    @amk: Only one dead, the ringleaders rounded up, the movement is exposed as lunacy, infighting reigns among militias, and Cliven Bundy flushed out of his rabbit hole.

    Yeah, that *is* a heckuva job.

  25. 25.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Adam, many thanks for all your input. The rest of you, thanks for the engagement.

  26. 26.

    MomSense

    Well I’m glad this particular chapter is over. Let’s hope the feds got a lot of intel on these groups.

    ETA I’m also hoping they didn’t do a lot of damage to the nesting areas. The buildings can be repaired and replaced but nesting areas are fragile.

  29. 29.

    Miss Bianca

    God, I’m glad that kid didn’t kill himself. As long as there’s life, there’s hope that he might get a clue someday.

  36. 36.

    Adam L Silverman

    @bemused: He was self medicating back at home with marijuana. He was arrested and charged for it in Ohio, which is where he’s from. Ohio refused to legalize medical marijuana. That’s what that rant was about.

  37. 37.

    Mj_Oregon

    it’s over. now the hard work begins to gather evidence for more charges against the occupiers and finally, FINALLY, get the place cleaned up and people back to work. I’m hoping they throw everything in the book at these people for the damage they’ve caused to an amazing place.

  39. 39.

    Another Holocene Human

    It’s OVER! Whoooooooooooo! Yaye!!!!!! It’s done!!!

    Also, KrisAnn Hall, STFU, you are not a trained specialist, but you did provide an object lesson in the alternative didn’t you? Go back to your internet sewerholes, Patritos. Wooooooohoooooooooo!

  41. 41.

    scav

    So, at the end, was this whole thing about solar energy, peaceful camping and change to the government
    (because voting is an illusion), free drugs, not paying taxes for abortion and war in the middle east for all those nice muslims, with their evil sharia law instead of our rights from god trumping the united states and getting people to recognize we have UFOs and leaking nuclear plants? I always wondered what the right-wing patriot militia were about, and now apparently I know. I think those poor free-ranging govt-mooching cattle are feeling pretty low right now, having lost their star billing.

  42. 42.

    CaseyL

    It’s probably too much to hope for, but maybe some not-yet-totally-crazy RWNJ-sympathizers will listen to this – esp. that vulture KrissAnne egging Fry on – and realize now much the Freedumb Movement is a grift.

  45. 45.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    Now can we get the Feds to place a lien on all the assets of everyone involved? Someone has to pay for all the over time and clean up of the Refuge.

  46. 46.

    Felonius Monk

    Question to the lawyers here: KrisAnne Hall –– has she done anything here that could be grounds for disbarment?

  51. 51.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Adam L Silverman: Two points:

    1. It’s not hard to see how a mentally ill person would transfer his frustration into anger against the government and be drawn to a group like the three percenters

    2. Pot is popular self medication for schizophrenia but my understanding is that it actually hastens the course of the disease. Oops.

  56. 56.

    Another Holocene Human

    @lgerard: I’m kinda hoping that rumor about Cooper being an FBI plant turns out to be true, trolololol. Heard he was arrested this morning, though.

  60. 60.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Gotta give some props to Michele Fiore, who, unlike that weirdo KrissAnne, really did a spectacular job of talking these guys off the ledge and getting them out peacefully.

    I’d still never vote for her but she and her family would be welcome in my home anytime. She didn’t have to stay on the phone with those lunatics all fucking night, but she did, and there’s four not-dead people today because of that.

  64. 64.

    Mj_Oregon

    @Another Holocene Human:

    I’m hoping none of the damage is irreparable but I’m concerned about the Paiute artifacts. It may take years to heal the physical scars in the area but if the artifacts left the refuge with the creeps who fled the night of 1/26, that will be a real tragedy.

  67. 67.

    Another Holocene Human

    @daverave: Beef has started triggering migraines for me. Must be the angry souls of the Native American ancestors’ whose bones are being trampled by freeloading cattle on sacred ground.

  71. 71.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: The contrast was stark. I suspect Fiore may have been willing to accept some coaching, but the constitutional scholar for Jesus (and a little grift on the side) is smarter than all the rest, so she didn’t need any help. And very nearly got a critically ill man very dead.

  72. 72.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s so upsetting when people with major mental health issues get lured into these kinds of groups, because they just get worse and worse, and the narcissists who operate the groups feed off that pain.

    QFT.

    Thank goodness the good guys won, this time.

  74. 74.

    jl

    @Mj_Oregon: The slightly saner revolutionists already in custody promised to keep those in the museum for the local Paiutes who were invited to come pick them up and then go away. I read that some archeological sites were disturbed when the deluded criminals were bulldozing trenches or something in the area. I haven’t read about anything being taken away.

  75. 75.

    Another Holocene Human

    @GregB: You say that, and I think of the Unabomber. Nobody cared about his supermarket windshield screeds so he decided to commit murder to get heard.

    Think the internet is a better option.

  76. 76.

    RandomMonster

    I couldn’t listen to the whole thing because I really, REALLY didn’t want to hear someone shoot themselves or get shot in real time. Just glad the FBI professionals knew how to wrap this thing up in the best manner possible.

  80. 80.

    Mj_Oregon

    @jl

    I hadn’t heard that anyone from the Paiute community actually went to the refuge and removed anything. I will not be surprised if they find there are things missing as they’d be easy enough to sell in the underground artifact market, which is very active out here. I’ll check and see if they were able to remove some of the collection before 1/26.

  84. 84.

    jl

    @Another Holocene Human: I have mixed feelings about the videos and livestream. These people get publicity. On the other hand, the truly pathetic nature of these wackos was on full display, and doesn’t seem likely to me that it will attract many who are not already jumped on the crazy train. More likely, will discourage people who are salvageable from doing something similar. But I am not an expert on it.

  85. 85.

    jl

    @Mj_Oregon: I guess no one will really know until knowledgeable people can take an inventory.

    Probably more damage than apparent from photos. I read that several conservation projects were disrupted. They cut some fences and did some damage on private property opening up access to the refuge, without bothering to tell some neighboring ranchers it would be through their property. Not sure how sympathetic those ranchers were to the cause, but I would guess less sympathetic now, if they ever were at all.

  87. 87.

    Chip Daniels

    @Amir Khalid:

    Why on earth does Fry want to talk to an imam?

    See, if it was an asshole like me on the other end of that call, I would have said “sure, I got yer imam right here” then put Barak Obama on the phone.
    Blow their minds.

  88. 88.

    Mj_Oregon

    @jl:

    No one from the Paiutes went to the refuge according to news articles. I hope they get good news when the evidence sweep is finished.

  89. 89.

    Face

    I’d still never vote for her but she and her family would be welcome in my home anytime.

    Nope, nada, no chance. So ever-so-not-quite-so-bugfuck-crazy woman, who sympathized with the uber-bugfuck-crazies, talked her ilk out of a firefight from a location they never should been in, holed up for weeks past their due date, and is now supposed to get props for this?

    She encouraged them to stay early on. She promoted their cause, publicly. She was on her way to bring them French Vanilla creamer when this all went down; we’re supposed to fellate this POS? GTFOH.

  90. 90.

    JPL

    David Fry’s family should thank the FBI, for their assistance in keeping their son/relative alive. I hope that he receives the help, he needs.

  91. 91.

    Mj_Oregon

    @jl:

    One of the ranchers was absolutely furious that the occupiers cut his fence and told them to not set foot on his land ever again. Many of the ranchers were definitely not happy with this stunt at all.

  92. 92.

    LAO

    I can’t wait to see how the republican party presidential hopefuls respond to the arrest of its hero Cliven. Should be entertaining.

  93. 93.

    boatboy_srq

    @Miss Bianca: Getting a clue in this case would almost require transplantation into a new social sphere. Is that especially likely in this case? Considering the people most likely to take him in are the wingnut militia and the FundiEvangelicals like the two bloviators trying to reach out to him.

  95. 95.

    jl

    @Mj_Oregon: No they did not, I read the local Paiutes refused to have anything to do with the occupiers and would not meet with them or go near the occupation site.

    But the Bundy Gang apparently thought they were very merciful and gracious in offering to allow them to come get their artifacts from the museum at the visitor center, and then go away and not come back.

  97. 97.

    Virginia Highlander

    This whole thing has been a black hole. I fell in on day 2 or 3.

    The closer you got to this one, the scarier it came to look. The problem is more than just nutters seizing a bird sanctuary.

  98. 98.

    jl

    @Mj_Oregon: When you have half the population of county (as I read) working full or part time for government at one level or another, and specifically BLM, a lot of them from ranching families, and a number of local ranchers realizing they do get a good deal on the grazing, I can see how this stunt split the community. I never read or saw anything that indicated more than a very small minority of the locals were supportive.

  100. 100.

    Mj_Oregon

    @jl:

    LaVoy Finicum was front and center with that effort. I’m hoping we get to see some photos of what’s been left behind before the trials start. The country needs to see what “respect” these people have for the land.

  104. 104.

    Miss Bianca

    @boatboy_srq:

    True…I guess I read too much about Clarence Darrow when I was an Impressionable Yoot, passionately arguing against the death penalty in the Leopold and Loeb case: that there was always a chance for the mental rehabilitation of criminal nutjobs. On the other hand, you could argue that those guys were saner than small Fry…

  107. 107.

    lgerard

    As an aside, there seems to be a meme among some of these nuts that there are French mercenaries in Burns assisting in the operation against the patriots (I guess because of the “French Courts”, but who knows).

    I came across a you tube video of some guy driving around looking for them. He swears he saw a white SUV with “French license plates” driving by the reservation.

    I guess the fact that it is a pretty long drive from France to Oregon didn’t exactly occur to him.

  109. 109.

    jl

    @Mj_Oregon: I remember Ammon Bundy saying that the Paiute lost their rights to the land through conquest by people more able to use the land productively. Which I imagine put a chill on any possibility of the Paiutes dealing with them at all.

    A little ironic, since IIRC, the Paiutes won all the battles they had with local militias, and in an alternative history where federal troops never came to bail out the locals, the land would still be seasonal grounds for the Paiutes.

    So, I guess in the Bundy Gang’s view, the role of the federal government is to go conquer land and then give it to people the Bundy Gang likes, but none of them have to pay the costs of the feds doing them that favor. Delusional, entitled and clueless view of the world in every way I can think of. Edit: and totally brutal and offensive way of thinking, which is important to remember, despite all their pathetic delusions, mental illness and self-pity. I think some of them are perfectly sane stone cold con people though. Maybe old man Bundy is?

  110. 110.

    Roger Moore

    @jl:

    No they did not, I read the local Paiutes refused to have anything to do with the occupiers and would not meet with them or go near the occupation site.

    Not too surprising. IIRC, the artifacts were kept at the refuge by agreement with the tribe, who were apparently convinced of the government’s competence and goodwill in doing so. Basically, the government has spent the past century or so building up goodwill, so the occupiers were totally off-base in expecting the locals to agree with them.

  111. 111.

    Miss Bianca

    @jl:

    To the extent that they think about it at all, yes. In the minds of these peanuts, the Federal Government probably had nothing to do with federal troops

  113. 113.

    MikeS

    @MomSense: as I said in the middle of the thread below, the birds and their areas are fine. It is a big place. Visiting birders could go even during the occupation and the local economy needs the help. The Malheur Refuge away from office/headquarters has been open for birding and other outdoor activities for a while now. Birding groups like the American Birding Association (the other ABA) are encouraging member to go there and support the local economy even more. You can also make donations to the Friends of Malheur organization that helps with public programs etc. at the refuge. If it were within a days drive for me I would be going there for sure. Since I live in PA, I will have to settle for Forsythe NWR in Nj or Bombay Hook in DE for this winter.

  114. 114.

    Mj_Oregon

    Billy J. Williams, US Attorney for the District of Oregon statement on the end of the occupation:

    “The occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge has been a long and traumatic episode for the citizens of Harney County and the members of the Burns Paiute tribe. It is a time for healing, reconciliation amongst neighbors and friends, and allowing for life to get back to normal. I want to thank our neighbors in eastern Oregon for their patience, resolve, and their kind and welcoming spirit to the many members of federal, county, state, local, and tribal law enforcement who have worked tirelessly to bring this illegal occupation to a conclusion. The fine work of so many dedicated public servants in a difficult endeavor cannot be understated. I am very proud of them all. Much work is left to assess the crime scene and damage to the refuge and tribal artifacts. We are committed to seeing the job done and to pursue justice for the crimes committed during the illegal occupation.”

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    @lgerard:

    I’m guessing that guy wouldn’t know what a French license plate looked like even if you attached it to his hand. He probably saw a tourist from Quebec and freaked himself out.

  116. 116.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @lgerard: That may actually be the wackiest conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard.

    French mercenaries have been a very real thing with loads of history, but the idea that they’d be fighting against white right-wing American Christian extremists is particularly hallucinatory, they were most often fighting against the kind of dark-skinned populations that these right wingers love to demonize.

    Also yeah, thinking that they’re parachuting vehicles in directly from France and forgetting to change the plates— good lord that’s imaginative. To put it nicely.

  118. 118.

    Roger Moore

    @jl:

    So, I guess in the Bundy Gang’s view, the role of the federal government is to go conquer land and then give it to people the Bundy Gang likes, but none of them have to pay the costs of the feds doing them that favor. Delusional, entitled and clueless view of the world in every way I can think of.

    Entitled, yes, but it’s sadly historically accurate. In many, many places, the government did exactly as you describe: dispossessed the natives, gave the land to anyone who wanted it, and charged no more than a nominal fee for the whole process. Bundy and the gang are just upset that they stopped giving it away and started leasing it.

  120. 120.

    Mj_Oregon

    @jl:

    Grifters gotta grift, yes? I’m just glad they’re out of there for now. Hopefully no one else will try to take over another site later this year while the tourists are thick on the ground.

  121. 121.

    catclub

    @Miss Bianca:

    In the minds of these peanuts, the Federal Government probably had nothing to do with federal troops

    Well of course not, everyone knows it was just ‘the Cavalry’ who came ( always at the last minute.).

    And the Cavalry is near Jerusalem. No wonder it takes them so long.

  124. 124.

    Mj_Oregon

    @Mnemosyne:

    Yes, it is and the Paiute band is adamant that these people be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I hope they get their wish.

  126. 126.

    Mnemosyne

    @jl:

    One of the biggest dangers of running a complicated long con is that the con artist will start to believe it himself. There’s a book called “Drake’s Fortune” by Richard Rayner about a guy who ran a major con during the Great Depression but (spoiler alert!) ended his days in a mental institution because he was so good, he managed to convince *himself* that it was all true.

  127. 127.

    jl

    If we want to spin conspiracy theories, the contemporary conspiracy theory when the Paiutes were whupping local militias in NW Nevada, was that the Paiutes were too primitive and stupid to whup white man, so must be sinister hidden Mormon agents directing them.

    And it was true that there were outlaw Mormon settlers in the general area who had taken over canyons and other defensible areas to rustle cattle and similar no goodness. Salt Lake City deemed them irredeemable, and disowned them (at least that is the official story, but what would expect that say… Hmmmmm?).

    But who has been running this shitshow? Hmmm… wake up sheeples…

  128. 128.

    Mj_Oregon

    FBI will hold a press conference at 2 PM this afternoon in Burns. The last four will have their first court appearance tomorrow in Portland.

  129. 129.

    trollhattan

    @mistermix:
    See, the Whole Thing was Obama’s FalseFlag(tm) to get ol’ Cliven off his home base and away from his henchmen so as to arrest his ass.

    Thanks, Obama.

  130. 130.

    ruemara

    I’m surface happy this went down without death. I can’t let go of the fact that black people can get shot within seconds for holding a toy gun, or being in display with a sheathed sword, or just being unarmed. It’s not up to my standard of principles but I’ll just deal. And I hope they all lose their money, benefits, property, what have you. It is time we dealt with the treasonous shit inside our country like they’re the traitors they are.

  131. 131.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Mnemosyne: Also KV’s Mother Night comes to mind.

    The line “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be very careful what we pretend to be” came from that book.

  133. 133.

    Immanentize

    @Terry: Wow, That has some serious minimum mandatory stuff in there — use of a firearm in a crime of violence….

    Minimum minimums:
    (i) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5 years;
    (ii) if the firearm is brandished, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 7 years; and
    (iii) if the firearm is discharged, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years.

  134. 134.

    jl

    Very odd and suspicious that FYWP ate up two attempts to comment on the long standing and tangled tale of Mormon role, and suspicion of Mormon role, in the tangled history of Paiutes and land grabs in this general area. Very suspicious indeed..

    Wake up sheeples!

  135. 135.

    catclub

    @Poopyman:

    Maybe the license plate read “Je me Souviens“

    The Quebequois are the original sore losers with long held gripes – it is right on their licenses plates.

    Remember the Plains of Abraham! 1763 ( I think).

  137. 137.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    If it helps, I do suspect that the Feds let it drag out so they could scoop Cliven Bundy up in their net, and it worked. Cut off the snake’s head and all that. But it doesn’t do anything to help with our local police problem, which is where most of the “shoot first and ask questions later” bullshit is coming from.

  139. 139.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic: I’ve been on panels with Ted’s brother, David. The Feds really did him a nasty — they agreed that they would not seek the death penalty for Ted if David (and the rest of the family) helped them catch Ted, which he did, then they sought the death penalty. The whole thing was a crap sammich

  140. 140.

    dedc79

    Posted something along thse lines in the prior oregon thread – one good thing that COULD come out of this would be to push for Congress to repeal the legislation (signed by the President in 2010) that allowed people to bring weapons onto national parks and wildlife refuges.

  141. 141.

    redshirt

    @Gin & Tonic: As did I. He killed people and deserves to be in jail, but he’s a fascinating case. There’s a valid argument to be made too that his head got truly messed up doing psych experiments at Harvard.

  145. 145.

    redshirt

    OT, but have I missed a thread discussing Congress not even hearing Obama’s budget, and the Supreme Court blocking Obama’s environmental orders? Both unprecedented acts in US history?

  147. 147.

    Mnemosyne

    @Immanentize:

    There could be a great movie made just about David, because that’s one hell of a moral dilemma to have to work through. Most people wouldn’t even be able to deal with the realization that their brother was a murderer and would just stay in denial.

  149. 149.

    trollhattan

    @Chyron HR:
    Click the linkie. Your new Ultimate Wingnut Superhero-gun-totin’-grizzly-mama (despite Nevada’s distinct lack of grizzlies).

  152. 152.

    Mj_Oregon

    Please don’t forget that there’s still a large, if unorganized at the moment, militia/PPN/III% presence in Harney County. While the community is probably relieved that the occupation is over, they’re having to deal with these other people who are NOT welcome.

  154. 154.

    Calouste

    @lgerard: I’ve actually seen a couple of cars with French license plates in Seattle, the plates being under the Washington state license plate, but you can spot them because they are longer. Most likely French folks here for a couple of years with Microsoft/Amazon/the French Immersion School. No white SUVs though, Volvos or Beemers.

  155. 155.

    jl

    I could post last comment, but not a comment on a certain religious group’s long tangled history of real and suspected land grabs in the general area. Suspicious….

    Oh. I see. Can’t tell the sh**p to wake up anymore. Triggers a spam filter.

  157. 157.

    scav

    @Calouste: But then, what’s the critical difference between a French and a Belgium or a German or etc plate? Most of them are long. I’ve also seen people keep the old oval here be foreigners plates on cars they brought back.

    ETA: Oh, they’ve got the little F on them now. My plate immersion predated those handy little Euro tags.

  158. 158.

    bluehill

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t know much about him. Does he really have a mental health issue? I know he spouted some crazy stuff, but is that mental illness or just being deluded and confused? If it’s a sign of illness, then that entire movement should be declared unfit.

  159. 159.

    jl

    When Paiutes were beating local militias, the local whites thought Mormons were secretly directing the Paiutes, basically using them as a front to grab land from good Christian white men.

    And there were some renegade Mormon settlements in the general area that were rustling cattle and generally thieving, and killing good Christians. Salt Lake City disowned them, gut the locals didn’t believe it was really true.

    And now a crazy outfit lead by I believe the Mormon Bundies come for land over 140 years later, in the name of good white Christian men. History is weird.

  160. 160.

    Gin & Tonic

    @redshirt: What impressed me was that he was eligible for parole several times, and was basically told he’d get it if he applied, but he refused to apply because he didn’t want to submit to any conditions. If he served his full term and was released then, he’d have no conditions. So he waited.

    The interesting part was there was a discussion here the other night about the type of hammer best used to kill someone, and the people with opinions all recommended ball-peen — which is what Streleski used.

  161. 161.

    sm*t cl*de

    @jl:

    I remember Ammon Bundy saying that the Paiute lost their rights to the land through conquest by people more able to use the land productively.

    Always cute, coming from a bunch of subsidy-sucking welfare cowboys.

  164. 164.

    Soylent Green

    legislation (signed by the President in 2010) that allowed people to bring weapons onto national parks and wildlife refuges.

    People can bring weapons onto wildlife refuges because hunting is a legal and long-accepted practice on wildlife refuges. One of the angriest and most well-spoken groups opposing the occupiers (they drove right to the gate to tear their blue tarp off the government sign) was the local upland bird hunting club, which has been using the Malheur for generations.

    National forests have never had any restrictions on firearms use other than not discharging them near residential or recreational sites.

    The national parks are where the gun lobbyists got the policy changed.

  165. 165.

    Chyron HR

    @lgerard:

    I came across a you tube video of some guy driving around looking for them. He swears he saw a white SUV with “French license plates” driving by the reservation.

    He said, “I saw two men running out
    They looked like expatriates.
    They jumped into a white car
    With out-of-country plates.”

  167. 167.

    Betty Cracker

    @bluehill: I listened to about five minutes of his stupid conversation with that pair of nitwits, which hardly qualifies me to render a diagnosis. But he sounded like a self-pitying, self-aggrandizing, attention-seeking crybaby to me.

  169. 169.

    bemused

    @Mnemosyne:

    Did Fry’s parents give any indication they realized their son was this mentally ill? I vaguely remember that his father made a few comments but not the substance.

  171. 171.

    dedc79

    @Soylent Green: Not according to FWS:

    The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service today announced that effective February 22, 2010, the rules governing possession of firearms on National Wildlife Refuges will change as a result of legislation enacted by Congress. After this date, the law allows an individual to lawfully possess a firearm within the boundaries of a National Wildlife Refuge in accordance with federal, state and local firearms laws.

    As directed by this new law, the Service will look to the laws of the state and locality in which the refuge or refuge unit is located to govern possession of firearms on the refuge. Visitors will be allowed to possess firearms on National Wildlife Refuges provided they comply with applicable provisions of federal, state and local law. Persons with so-called firearm “carry” permits will be able to possess firearms on a refuge in accordance with the provisions of the state issued permit. The new law applies to all 551 units of the National Wildlife Refuge System, as well as the National Monuments and the 392 units of the National Park System.

  174. 174.

    trollhattan

    Ted Kaczynski killed two men in my town, so fuck him.

    Speaking of murderous assholes, yesterday Sirhan Sirhan was again denied parole. If you believe as I do that RFK would have beaten Nixon, that man profoundly altered history, for the worse.

  175. 175.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @bluehill: Fry is very seriously ill, which is distinct from his idiotic views on US law and what it should be. It was really apparent on the livestream, and he presented as extremely suicidal at the end. Several of us here who listened were literally relieved he survived.

  176. 176.

    bluehill

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, that seems right to me. The whining and crying seemed more like a last cry for attention rather than a serious suicide threat. But again I no know nothing about what goes on in the mind of someone intent on killing themselves. I just don’t think that most of these gun-toting tough guys are that tough, especially to do something so drastic.

  179. 179.

    Belafon

    I read that Fry had schizophrenia, and was self medicating with marijuana before running off to the ranch.

    Right wing radio probably easily fed into what he felt was happening to him, especially since his life was barely in control. It would be especially nice for someone sick to find anything to blame.

    As for the rest of the right wing movement, this is what happens with your statements. You created Fry, and destroyed him.

  180. 180.

    JPL

    I just turned on the Atlanta CBS local broadcast to see if they would let Ben Swann report… yup he’s on the air.
    He was the reporter mentioned by KrisAnne Hall as understanding the constitution. I had stopped watching the CBS local news because his reports are quite slanted.

  181. 181.

    Betty Cracker

    @bluehill: Yep. At any rate, I’m glad it’s over and that no further loss of life occurred. If that whinging ninny truly needs professional help, I hope he gets it.

  182. 182.

    Capt. Seaweed

    Page 17, section 44 of the Cliven Bundy indictment the Feds get to talking about “Co-conspiritors 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been arrested and are detained on federal charges lodged in another district”. That sounds familiar.

    Our boys are in a heap o’ trouble. Everybody who took part in the action at Bundy’s is in the same heap. This group is done for and they’ve taken a whole lot of like-minded believers with ’em. Pity…

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzgzy2KXyxqtSjI4ZWhnY3dlLUE/view

  185. 185.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Betty Cracker: He really does need medical help; I’ve heard whingy narcissists also, and this particular narcissist was very close to going out, and I don’t mean to meet the FBI. Which is not to say he isn’t an idiot, but he’s also a very sick man. At the end it sounded like he found some bud and calmed down.

    And like you, I hope he gets adequate treatment.

  187. 187.

    sm*t cl*de

    @JPL:

    He was the reporter mentioned by KrisAnne Hall as understanding the constitution. I had stopped watching the CBS local news because his reports are quite slanted.

    Ben Swann the anti-vaccine conspiracy-theorist?
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/01/27/ben-swanns-long-awaited-report-on-the-cdc-whistleblower-goes-over-like-a-lead-balloon-of-misinformation/

    Swann’s job before his current gig was working for RT America. He was RT’s man-on-the-ground for providing them with anti-Obama stories:
    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/187100-ben-swann-carney-cnn/

    He still seems to rely on Putin’s Pravda as his central source of information.

  192. 192.

    lgerard

    I see that it is the 10th anniversary of Dick Cheney shooting that guy.

    He ought to be getting out about now……….

  194. 194.

    Mnemosyne

    @Betty Cracker:

    This was going on for hours and it was pretty clear that there was something more than self-absorption going on with him. I can never quite explain it, but there’s something about the way someone puts their sentences together that pings my “psychosis” meter, and this guy was doing that.

  195. 195.

    trollhattan

    @sm*t cl*de:
    Oy. He certainly seems to have the energy (in the Energizer Bunny fashion) to sock-puppet the bejezzus out of himself, so why not? Now that we know the CIA really did invent AIDS….

  196. 196.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    None of the 24/7 news channels—Fox, CNN, MSNBC—has anything about the Oregon standoff at the top of the hour.

  197. 197.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Correction to the supposed link to the press conference at #192: Looks like KATU can’t get their stuff together, or else some bad info was tweeted out. FBI Portland is tweeting their statement, though.

    ETA: Okay, they’ve got it going now.

  198. 198.

    kc

    Late to the party, but I’m really glad they finally got all of those assholes out of the refuge. And finally arrested that SOB Cliven Bundy.

  199. 199.

    trollhattan

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    They seem to have acquitted themselves very well throughout the story. I’ve gained a lot of respect for The Oregonian with this and the college massacre coverage. The side story of reporter Les Zeitz being threatened by the sheriff is chilling as hell. I didn’t realize so many of them are in bed with the anti-federalism movement. Ugh.

  200. 200.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @jl:

    Oh. I see. Can’t tell the sh**p to wake up anymore. Triggers a spam filter.

    I got that last week.

  201. 201.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @trollhattan: I have been tremendously impressed by The Oregonian and Oregon Public Broadcasting, even donated to the latter. Zietz has been a finalist for the Pulitzer in the past, and I think he and others should be considered in the future.

  202. 202.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Sheriff Dave Ward says some very good things about getting the country back together.

    Says that as he listened to David Fry’s livestream, the law enforcement officers around him said hallelujah in unison to get Fry out.

    “We can’t continue to go on tearing each other apart.”

  203. 203.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Franklin Graham was talking to the occupiers for a week before yesterday.

    No body cameras in Finicum’s death.

    Won’t get into what FBI did and didn’t allow in communications. [My guess is that they had at least 80% control of communications, including the livestream, maybe 100%]

    ETA: This was a big one: Illegal acts like the refuge takeover “will not be tolerated in the United States.”

  205. 205.

    Gravenstone

    @Gin & Tonic: The former research adviser to a buddy of mine got her PhD from Stanford. When she left, she grabbed another hammer from the tool crib from which the murder weapon originated. She called it the “Streleski Slammer”. That should have been our first warning that she was not quite wired right.

  207. 207.

    Chip Daniels

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    None of the 24/7 news channels—Fox, CNN, MSNBC—has anything about the Oregon standoff at the top of the hour.

    Even better.
    Nothing is more demoralizing and humiliating than to have your grand finale final summation ignored, even by your own side. I notice all the regular rightwing outlets are fairly muted, preferring not to discuss this entire matter.

  211. 211.

    sigaba

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Says that as he listened to David Fry’s livestream, the law enforcement officers around him said hallelujah in unison to get Fry out.

    Final words of Charles Guiteau, assassin of James Garfield:

    I wonder what I will do when I get to the Lordy,
    I guess that I will weep no more
    When I get to the Lordy!
    Glory hallelujah!
    I wonder what I will see when I get to the Lordy,
    I expect to see most glorious things,
    Beyond all earthly conception
    When I am with the Lordy!
    Glory hallelujah! Glory hallelujah!
    I am with the Lord.

  213. 213.

    Paul in KY

    @Immanentize: He deserved the death penalty & David should give info to catch a murderer, no matter what the relation or penalty.

    I’m glad he gave the info that caught his coward brother. His brother did have some good points on ‘automation run amok’.

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