Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

You cannot shame the shameless.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

I really should read my own blog.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

He really is that stupid.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

No Justins, No Peace

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Bernie Sanders 2016 / South Carolina results thread

Reader Interactions

285Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    Since it’s an open thread:

    I wonder if the Republicans saw this coming when they decided not to act on an Obama Supreme Court nomination.

    Dow wusses out.

    Will the GOP be too proud to change their tune (which fat man is singing this song?) or will they let corporations twist in the wind?

  4. 4.

    cmorenc

    9 minutes until polls close and CNN is pretending there’s some suspense awaiting in the results, but Bernie Sanders leaving SC for the northland before Saturday is all the tell you need that the only “suspense” is how much over 25% the Clinton’s final margin will be. If Sanders was still on plausible track to break into the low 40s, he would never have left SC early.

  9. 9.

    Applejinx

    @cmorenc: I’m curious if these results will be promptly announced and widely reported ;) seeing as we’ve had OTHER results that were much slower to emerge.

    I too am curious what sort of margin Hillary manages. I suppose if Bernie unexpectedly won it would be ‘sky is falling’ hysteria everywhere, but I don’t think that’s remotely near happening. We shall see.

  12. 12.

    dmsilev

    I’ve always loved the description “Too small for a republic, too large for an insane asylum”.

  15. 15.

    Anoniminous

    The only question is how fast AP calls it. I’ll give ’em 20 minutes. Nope, it took them about 2 minutes.

    @dmsilev:

    Historical evidence suggest it isn’t too large for an insane asylum.

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: Its the cryptid of threads. Maybe you saw something real, maybe its a trick of light, shadows, and forced perspective. You just can’t be sure of anything except that the picture you took of it will be very, very blurry.

  22. 22.

    ruemara

    I’m smiling at the SC primary. I don’t know who won, but black turnout was well over ’08. That’s what I want to see. BaudBernillary 2016 Because I’m Voting Against REPUBLICANS!

    Also, someone sent me a song. Like, sang one of my faves and sent it to me.

    This grin on my face is pesky.

  24. 24.

    WaterGirl

    Al Giordano predicts Hillary 67, Bernie 32.

    Al also said something that I thought was profoundly important in one of his recent newsletters:

    Black voters have finally gotten to speak and white Democrats and progressives would do well to shut up and listen to them. No group of Democrats is more familiar with Hillary Clinton’s weaknesses than African-Americans, who were very attentive during the 2008 primaries to her missteps. That knowing the worst of Clinton such a wide majority of them still made her their choice yesterday is what Joe Biden would call a “BFD.” The only way the Democrats can win in November is through another record high African-American turnout. Black voters have turned the page and embraced Hillary Clinton now. And white folks really don’t have any standing to second guess them.

    Edit: do we know the actual split yet?

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    NYT headline (on their homepage): “Clinton Routs Sanders in South Carolina”. Gee, um, shouldn’t we wait until the number of reported votes goes above 0 to roll out words like ‘rout’?

  26. 26.

    Anoniminous

    @Barbara:

    The early voting must have been a landslide for Clinton. Usually they wait to see if their spot exit polling matches pre-election day polling.

  36. 36.

    dmsilev

    Useful reference material: this dKos front page story goes into depth on the delegate allocations in SC, and how they vary across the state (different Congressional Districts get differing numbers of delegates, based on historical numbers of Democratic votes, plus there are some statewide delegates).

  37. 37.

    Steve in the ATL

    @NotMax:

    South Carolina results: The North won.

    I’m guessing you don’t actually know anyone in South Carolina. They will never admit that!

  39. 39.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @cmorenc:

    but Bernie Sanders leaving SC for the northland before Saturday is all the tell you need

    Bernie’s campaign [k]new they were going to lose SC immediately after NV (and likely sooner). I got half-a-dozen fundraiser e-mails from his campaign just after NV saying (roughly) they were “on to Super Tuesday”. None of them mentioned South Carolina.

    Maybe they had good reasons for doing that, but it seemed to be a bad strategy to me. The optics (trying to pretend SC didn’t exist) only feeds the perception that Bernie can’t win AA voters and isn’t really trying. He (and his fundraising e-mails) should have at least made the effort.

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who is watching Kevin Hart on Comedy Central for a second time rather than watching the “let’s see the results come in and talk about the numbers” coverage. He’ll get the final numbers later.)

  41. 41.

    Anoniminous

    @oldgold:

    Yup. Sanders will take Vermont and maybe Massachusetts. Everywhere else it’s Clinton, Clinton, Clinton. With her Super Delegate support plus primary wins this thing will be over by the end of March.

    I’m hoping the GOP will continue to be a knife fight but polling indicates Trump should also have it sewn-up by the end of March.

  45. 45.

    WaterGirl

    @ruemara: Crushes are good! Nice to see you in a happy mood. Also glad to have read (belatedly) that you leg thing didn’t turn out to be the scary/serious thing you had before. It’s a hat trick!

  46. 46.

    inventor

    It’s hard to imagine how berniesplaining that John Lewis is a no-good liar and how Bernie Sanders led the Civil Rights movement to black voters in S.C. didn’t end up being a winning strategy.

    I guess black voters in S.C. are just a bunch of corporate shills.

  49. 49.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Good evening from Memphis! Am at the Peabody hoping to see Dee Lorelei in the next few minutes for a drink here and then across the street to Kooky Canuck for supper. I saw the Canuck’s owner earlier today at my Canada event and he’s very kindly saving a table for us. I’ll be Frank noted in an earlier thread that the KC owner is a staunch libertarian, and that’s true, but I’ve known him casually for years and he’s a very nice guy. So the Canuck it is.

    Sadly, Eclare is unable to join us after all. Dee and I will lift a glass to absent friends.

    P.S. I retreated to the mezzanine level because the P’body lobby is wall-to-wall people and noisier than a dozen rock concerts. Either that, or I am Old.

  50. 50.

    Anoniminous

    @Baud:

    I know nothing of Minnesota politics and there hasn’t been enough polling in Minnesota for me to even base a guess.

  54. 54.

    Chyron HR

    @dmsilev:

    Our resident Sanders boosters spent all day whining that SC doesn’t count because black voters are too dumb to vote the right way.

    I’m pretty sure you knew perfectly well what the results were before the polls closed.

  55. 55.

    delk

    oy

    Young AA Bernie supporters.

    “All of our parents grew up with President Clinton,” Bradley said. “We don’t really know [the Clintons] the way they know them, we just know what we hear on social media.”

    HuffPo

  56. 56.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    Wait, current events are reminding me of something. Ah yes, this was it.

    1979:

    The BBC’s John Simpson looks at footage of the moment Saddam Hussein carried out a very public purge of more than 60 senior members of the ruling Baath Party.

    As the first few members were escorted out of the assembly with Sadaam presiding, other members, some of whom had opposed Sadaam, now started one by one to stand up and shout “Long live Sadaam! Long live the party!” in hopes of warding off being hauled off themselves.

    Present day, via Atrios:

    At a meeting of Republican governors [on Feb 20 2016], Paul R. LePage of Maine called for action. Seated at a long boardroom table at the Willard Hotel, he erupted in frustration over the state of the 2016 race, saying Mr. Trump’s nomination would deeply wound the Republican Party. Mr. LePage urged the governors to draft an open letter “to the people,” disavowing Mr. Trump and his divisive brand of politics.

    […]

    On Friday, a few hours after Mr. Christie endorsed him, Mr. Trump collected support from a second governor, who in a radio interview said Mr. Trump could be “one of the greatest presidents.”

    That governor was Paul LePage.

  58. 58.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    but, but……

    “If Bernie’s going to beat Clinton it’s because people don’t want a 3rd Obama term.” — Sanders Campaign Manager Tad Devine

    Please proceed, Senator

  65. 65.

    Anoniminous

    @Baud:

    Looking at Real Clear Politics the last poll was in January. Fortunately MSNBC has a Greek mantis on staff well experienced in the analysis of sacrificed sheep’s liver so they don’t have to worry about that maths stuff.

  66. 66.

    Barbara

    @Steve in the ATL: Anyone? Although way behind NC, there are more and more transplants to SC from outside the South. Also, although they may recognize the victory as incomplete I am pretty sure most African Americans readily admit that the North won.

  67. 67.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    MSNBC is unwatchable with their Clinton hatred.

    Had to turn on CNN. They’re boring, but atleast they don’t make you barf.

  70. 70.

    dmsilev

    @Chyron HR: Oh, certainly. I don’t think anyone is surprised to see Hillary win tonight, and win big. I’m more (slightly) peeved by the Times rolling out the heavy-duty nouns before there was an actual count of votes. Exit polls are all well and good, but would it have killed them to wait a couple of hours for, say, 10% reporting?

  72. 72.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Hmm, I might have unconsciously self-selected on that one and wandered off before it got too ugly. :-)

    I loathe the idea of Hillary as our president, and even I have reached acceptance mode. At this point, it’s a republican candidate as president that I fear. Seriously, when the house is on fire, you have to deal with that first. I just don’t get all the hostility toward one another.

  74. 74.

    dmsilev

    Took a look at the comments over at dKos (in the liveblogs). Lots of ‘it’s a red state in the fall, so who cares?’. Sigh.

  76. 76.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Now that he’s been sworn in as President of New Hampshire does Sanders have to resign his Senate seat or can he hold both offices simultaneously?

  77. 77.

    Thoroughly Pizzled

    Finally, Democrats that seem energized and not enervated by the Obama presidency. Focusing on the black vote is the key to victory, and Hillary understanding that is promising for November.

  79. 79.

    kc

    Someone on Twitter, forget who, said HRC got a higher percentage of the AA vote than Obama did. Hard to believe.

    I guess that video of Clinton shaking her finger and yelling at a BLM activist as the woman was being dragged out of an event and jeered at by the largely white audience didn’t hurt after all.

  81. 81.

    JPL

    @kc: At least you voted and you should be proud of that. A dem is not going to carry South Carolina but overall numbers count in the national election. Miracles do happen too.

  82. 82.

    Aleta

    Hard to stomach that MSNBC has hired Rick Tyler days after he was caught promoting a doctored video for Cruz. Talk about blatant.

  83. 83.

    kc

    @JPL:

    I’ll vote in the national election too, even though the state is always a lock for whatever shithead the GOP nominates, so my vote won’t count.

    The depressing thing about voting in SC is that in so many races, there aren’t even ANY Democrats on the ballot.

  91. 91.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    I guess all those people who spent the last year insisting Sanders’s large-large-large crowd rallies would translate to blowout primary victories across the country were wrong.

    Funny that.

  94. 94.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Bill E Pilgrim: this is the reason that Iraqis have a societal fear, in general, of semi-automatic pistols. Saddam was giving these guys 9mm retirements. I saw a lot of Iraqis with long guns, usually AKs of various manufacture, even some machine pistols and the occasional revolver. Very few semi-automatic handguns though.

  96. 96.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Baud: It’s a dirty trick. The same one Cruz pulled on Carson. These people will stop at nothing to keep the rigged system.

  99. 99.

    Mike J

    @kc:

    even though the state is always a lock for whatever shithead the GOP nominates, so my vote won’t count.

    That’s moronic. Your vote will count as much as anybody’s. You’re just going to be on the losing side. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t count. Democracy doesn’t mean everything is going to be done your way, or even in a good way.

  100. 100.

    WaterGirl

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I think Sanders deserves a lot of credit for coming out of nowhere and doing as well as he has. Just because he’s not the candidate you want, and just because he’s not winning these states doesn’t mean that he hasn’t done pretty damn well. Even if he’s losing, he has given us a real choice, at least.

  101. 101.

    Anoniminous

    O/T

    In other election news, in Iran:

    Iranian President Hassan Rouhani earned an emphatic vote of confidence and reformist partners secured surprise gains in parliament in early results from elections that could accelerate the Islamic Republic’s emergence from years of isolation.

    While gains by moderates and reformists in Friday’s polls were most evident in the capital, Tehran, the sheer scale of the advances there suggests a legislature more friendly to the pragmatist Rouhani has emerged as a distinct possibility.

    Funny how engagement and diplomacy works-more-better than bombing.

  104. 104.

    ruemara

    @kc: How odd. Black people making choices that have nothing to do with what white people think they should feel. How terribly odd. How profanely self-directing of them. Perhaps you can explain what they need to consider.

  106. 106.

    kc

    @Anoniminous:

    She won’t. No knock on here there, neither would Sanders. You can count on SC going for whoever the Republican is.

    Which is why now that the primaries are over, no one in either party will pay a lick of attention to the state.

    It was fun while it lasted …

  108. 108.

    Wrb

    The picture from here: president
    Trump. In the county discussion group “of corse one of us would vote for Hillary, but Bernie seemed like a real man. We are left with Trump” I think I’ll tune out. I don’t want to suffer from emotional investment in a cause bound to lose.

  112. 112.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Mike J: I get what he’s saying. Like me, living in Tom Price’s district in Georgia, I haven’t voted for a winning candidate in years. But we still vote.

  114. 114.

    jl

    @Mike J:

    ” 1% reporting Vote %
    Clinton (won) 80.1%
    Sanders 19.7%
    O’Malley 0.1% ”

    Well, what do you expect from the one percent oligarchs?

  115. 115.

    Thoroughly Pizzled

    @Anoniminous: I meant for the Democrats in general, not in South Carolina. If only white votes were counted in 2012, Romney would have won 46 states.

  116. 116.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Anoniminous: She won’t, but if AAs are mobilized it could speak well for VA, PA and OH. Most of the doom scenarios assume black turnout will be down from 2008/2012.

  119. 119.

    magurakurin

    @JPL: Democrats in the South deserve mad respect, in my opinion. It has to be a lot tougher to be a proud Democrat in the South as compared to the relative safety of the liberal enclaves like Portland or Seattle. I lived in Portland for 12 years, and it is a great place, but the people are in a bubble there. Sure, Oregon is a liberal place…north of Woodstock Blvd. Hell, the area to the east of 82nd avenue is effectively “fly over country” since most people only ever pass through on their way to the mountains to hike or ski. But venture out into the depths of the Coast Range or into the southern parts of the state or head east outside of Bend…you need to tuck your hair up into your hat just like Uneasy Rider. Democrats in the South have my total respect and thanks.

  120. 120.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anoniminous: Up to a point. This is good, and its likely to be helpful, but ultimately everything is under control of the Supreme Religious Authority. It is Ayatullah Uzma Khameini’s handpicked group of clerics that determines who is and is not allowed to run for the majlis (parliament), as well as for president. So are these guys far more liberal than previous members of Iran’s majlis? Yes, but it is important to remember that more liberal members of an aging revolutionary movement and system are still members of, and bounded by, that aging revolutionary movement and system.

  121. 121.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, those were not just people being taken away for questioning, in case that wasn’t clear.

    Someone I dated for quite a while grew up there as a child during those years. The stories of what she saw and heard, even as a kid, were not pleasant.

  123. 123.

    Thoroughly Pizzled

    Also, I appreciate the Guardian’s efforts very much, but by God is its commentariat worthless. Indulging a little in their pain.

  124. 124.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Anoniminous:

    In other election news, in Iran:

    Iranian President Hassan Rouhani earned an emphatic vote of confidence and reformist partners secured surprise gains in parliament in early results from elections that could accelerate the Islamic Republic’s emergence from years of isolation.

    While gains by moderates and reformists in Friday’s polls were most evident in the capital, Tehran, the sheer scale of the advances there suggests a legislature more friendly to the pragmatist Rouhani has emerged as a distinct possibility.

    Funny how engagement and diplomacy works-more-better than bombing.

    Indeed! And this is directly related to why North Korea has nukes while Iran does not. Had Bush the Unelected continued Clinton’s diplomacy with NK, they wouldn’t have nukes and very well might have a less crazy leader and a more prosperous population.

  126. 126.

    Anoniminous

    @kc:

    I know and that sucks.

    If it is going to change it’s the people in the state who have to do it.

  127. 127.

    jl

    @Nate Dawg:

    ” I’m guessing @Baud is wishing he didn’t drop out. Wow. ”

    Baud! 2016! only virtually dropped out. Before he “tuned in and turned on” (That’s hippie talk for you dang kids these days).

    I don’t know what happened. How big is the dissolute hobo vote in SC?

  128. 128.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @kc: Obama got 45% of the vote in 2008. So it can flip. The same way Obama flipped Virginia and North Carolina. Virginia had only voted once for a Dem between 1948-2008, yet Obama flipped it twice.

    If some purple states become blue, then that would free up resources to target SC and Georgia in the future.

  129. 129.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: Yeah, gloating is a good word for it. It’s one thing to be thrilled that your candidate won – I certainly was when Obama was in the primaries in 2008 – but it’s another thing to be in-your-face with real people whose candidate was on the losing side.

    Makes me sad to see this at Balloon Juice. It’s not like we’re at a sporting even singing na-na-na-na-na… hey hey, goodbye to the opposing team*.

    *We’re on the same team, dammit!

  131. 131.

    jl

    @kc: I guess that is why the SC Democrats I heard interviewed on the news sounded so cheerful and eager to talk. Happy for the attention, probably.

  132. 132.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @dmsilev: Granted SC is unlikely to be Democratic in the GE, it still annoys me when people dismiss our voters there. We should care about what they think.

    @Baud: Yeah, I usually stay out of the fight and this morning I let myself be provoked. But then, it was provoking.

  133. 133.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: Doesn’t surprise me. Putin clearly is going to do anything he can, and meddle anywhere he can, if he thinks it will tweak the US and the EU and NATO. And honestly this is in his back yard. If we pulled everyone out tomorrow, which we won’t, there’s a lot of real estate that has to be crossed before Afghanistan’s problems follow us home. Not so much for Russia. So supplying weapons isn’t surprising.

    Quite often in these situations there are numerous foreign donors of equipment, including weaponry/guns, when trying to rebuild or refit or just stand up security forces in other countries. Sometimes this is a good thing as it shows widespread international commitment. Sometimes its not because you’ve got different units and elements and services with equipment that isn’t interoperable. So if you run low on 7.62X39 ammo for the AK 47, you can’t just switch to the surplus of NATO spec ammo we’ve provided.

  134. 134.

    WaterGirl

    @kc: @ruemara: Did you guys see the quote above from Al Giordano? Seems fitting here:

    Black voters have finally gotten to speak and white Democrats and progressives would do well to shut up and listen to them. No group of Democrats is more familiar with Hillary Clinton’s weaknesses than African-Americans, who were very attentive during the 2008 primaries to her missteps. That knowing the worst of Clinton such a wide majority of them still made her their choice yesterday is what Joe Biden would call a “BFD.” The only way the Democrats can win in November is through another record high African-American turnout. Black voters have turned the page and embraced Hillary Clinton now. And white folks really don’t have any standing to second guess them.

  140. 140.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Tonight’s results were as expected, no drama today.

    But remember how exciting this day was 8 years ago.

    We were all on the edge of our seats, biting our nails.

    Expectations were very low: perhaps a narrow win, perhaps a devastating third loss in a row. And then this happened (photo)

    And then during the night, surprise news came that both Ted Kennedy and Caroline Kennedy had decided to go all in for Obama.

    You knew at that moment that you were living history (video)

  144. 144.

    Raven Onthill

    (This based on Corey Robin’s article, Clinton and Welfare Reform.)

    The President eventually signed this third bill into law. Even with its flaws, it was a critical first step to reforming our nation’s welfare system. I agreed that he should sign it and worked hard to round up votes for its passage.—Hillary Clinton, writing in her memoir, Living History

    Hundreds of thousands of Southern families are living on less than $2 in cash a day as a result of legislation President Bill Clinton signed in 1996, according to new research by Johns Hopkins University’s Kathryn Edin and University of Michigan’s Luke Shaefer. Current WaPo article

    Starting in 1994, soon before the 1996 welfare reform bill (PRWORA) the state of Florida explored what was roughtly a pilot version the “Family Transition Program” (FTP). I recall reading at the time that this was the only reformed welfare program with a hard time limit on benefits. … participants in the experimental group had a 16 percent higher mortality rate than members of the control group — Economist Robert Waldmann (+ quote from source)

    If you dig in, you will find this “reform” affected poor whites and poor African-Americans in about equal proportions, but of course African-American poverty rates, especially in places like SC, are staggering. It seems to me that African-Americans voting for Clinton is a lot like Jews voting for anti-semites … which, come to think of it, is what Jews used to do in most places in the USA, because they were seldom offered any other choices. Hunh.

  147. 147.

    magurakurin

    @Raven Onthill:

    It seems to me that African-Americans voting for Clinton is a lot like Jews voting for anti-semites

    well, you win the ugly scepter for today.

    wow.

  151. 151.

    jl

    @WaterGirl:

    ” *We’re on the same team, dammit! ”

    The parents seem nice, but their kids fight all the time. Now excuse me, I’m going to read some inherently worrywort pundits, wonder whether the Dems not calling each other crooks and con men, or suggesting they pee their pants is good news for Republicans.

    Sanders Congratulates Clinton On S.C. Victory, Says Race ‘Just Beginning’

    “I congratulate Secretary Clinton on her victory in South Carolina,” Sanders said in the statement.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bernie-sanders-clinton-win-south-carolina

  153. 153.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Anoniminous: If the nominee is smart, and I think we have two plenty smart candidates here, they’ll be trying hard to get the other one on board the moment the nomination gets clinched.

  154. 154.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I knew I was in a significant moment at the caucuses. We Obama folks were in the hall waiting for the Richardson people to decide what to do, and the AA woman next to me told me her husband had considered not coming. She told him, “Baby, you have to come. It’s history.” I felt an actual thrill. You don’t always know when a moment matters. I knew that night.

  156. 156.

    Gin & Tonic

    @kc: SC, in 2012, was a Romney state, but certainly not among the top. Going from the Obama-Romney border, in increasing order of redness, were NC, Georgia, Arizona, Missouri, Indiana, and South Carolina. States like Kentucky or Arkansas had more than double the margin. Is it logical or reasonable to expect SC to go for the Dem in ’16? Perhaps not. Can it be a stretch goal? Why not?

  157. 157.

    Anoniminous

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I have no illusions Iran will be anything other than what it is. People in that part of the world have been trying to get out from under European and American imposed “solutions” for decades. If they want a theocratic, authoritarian, state based on some weird Roman Iron Age religion … it’s their government. I don’t care.

  158. 158.

    Nate Dawg

    Just heard Hillary’s speech take a religious turn.

    She quoted 1 Corinthians 13. Was quite powerful. REALLY smart move. If Trump wants to go at her left on the disgruntlement w/corporate establishment, she can come at his right with the Christian vote.

    First Lady Prayer Breakfast versus Foul-Mouthed Pitboss

    For every Trump supporter, there is a wife who doesn’t want foul language and violence to be glorified. She can go after the women of the right, and actually win them.

  159. 159.

    debbie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t remember all of Putin’s biography, but where was he when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan? Did he learn nothing from that? I have to question the man’s sanity.

  161. 161.

    jl

    @Raven Onthill: I am still a semi-lukewarm Sanders supporter. But, look, Bill Clinton is not running for president, Hillary Clinton is running for president. Has HRC indicated in any way that she is going that route on income or economic policy? Let me know if there is.

  164. 164.

    Nate Dawg

    Just heard Hillary’s speech take a religious turn.

    She quoted First Corinthians 13. Was quite powerful. REALLY smart move. If Trump wants to go at her left stoking anger at the corporate establishment, she can come at his right with the Christian charity vote.

    First Lady at the Prayer Breakfast versus a Foul-Mouthed Pitboss

    For every Trump supporter, there is a wife who doesn’t want foul language and violence to be glorified. She can go after the women of the right, and actually win them.

  165. 165.

    WaterGirl

    @jl: I dislike Hillary enough that I am still tuning out, I cannot stand to listen to her speak. It’s like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. I am starting to come to terms with the fact that I will not like or trust our next president, hopefully one of the democrats, the way I do president obama. It’s depressing as hell, but what really matters is that one of the crazy/dangerous republicans must not become president of the free world.

  166. 166.

    rikyrah

    EJ Dionne ✔ @EJDionne
    #SouthCarolinaPrimary c/o @SteveKornacki
    Black voters under 30:
    #Clinton 56 #Sanders 43
    Black voters over 65:
    #Clinton 96 #Sanders 3

  170. 170.

    Nate Dawg

    @WaterGirl: FWIW, I find Sanders voice to be worse. Like he needs to blow his nose and clear his damn throat. The guy at Thanksgiving dinner that talks a lot but has a bit of turkey fat stuck in his vocal cords. *shiver*

    Tonight’s speech was much better from her than we’ve seen in a long time.

  171. 171.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Nate Dawg: I keep thinking that there will be a good number of women “of a certain age”, who voted for Romney, and whose husband and his buddies will be shouting for Il Donaldo all summer, who will go into the privacy of the voting booth in November and say “fuck that noise, I want a woman.”

  173. 173.

    Anoniminous

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Neither Bernie nor Hillary are stupid. It is the wannabes, dipshits, ignorants, and rat fvckers who are making the noise. Of course Bernie will be encouraging “his” people to get out, work, GOTV, and vote. That’s his whole shtick.

  175. 175.

    Nate Dawg

    @Gin & Tonic: I definitely believe it. My mother-in-law just listens quietly to the Trumpbro’s around her, but I have no doubt she would never vote for that monster. Hell, she changes the channel when it lands on HBO and a stray “s-word” slips out.

    That is not an insignificant portion of the population. Basically every church lady and schoolmarm would be horrified to have the President–the ultimate role model for our children–be a foul-mouthed, crude asshole. It’s just not going to have that broad of an appeal.

  176. 176.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: I think this is part of President Obama’s strategy to deal with him. He, like many of President Obama’s detractors, have mistaken cool and calculating for scared to react and indecisive. So the more places that Putin wants to/decides to/feels the need to involve himself in – given his limited economic and military resources, that’s all good. Because every bit of that involvement is just sapping his limited capabilities even more.

    At the time of the Soviet Union’s adventures in Afghanistan Putin was assigned by the KGB to a covered posting in Dresden.

  178. 178.

    daves910

    Watergirl you decry gloating and then post a hate Hillary-very bad form, almost hypocritical.
    The white breakdown actually shows HRC getting 49% of white women, the great deficit is white males-a little misogyny perhaps?
    In any case, yay, Hilz!!!!!

  181. 181.

    Aleta

    @magurakurin:

    Democrats in the South have my total respect and thanks.

    yes, well said.

    I made a joke about northern secession, but meant no offense about Sanders. I like him.

  182. 182.

    jl

    @WaterGirl: Neither HRC nor Sanders are anything like Bill Clinton or Obama in terms of political talent. HRC still uses some cheezy triangulation tricks against Sanders, and uses this ‘scolding mommy’ tone sometimes as a substitute for substance that make me want to scream.

    And Sanders is sounding like an old lefty coot, and for some reason won’t adapt for different political make-up of different regions of the country.

    But, I think they are both politically more adept, more informed, far more able to think on their feet that the toxic nonsense we see on the GOP side. At least for the general. I hope HRC and Sanders will make a good team of some kind or other for the general election (though not with Sanders as veep nom), along with BC, and Obama and Biden and Reid and Pelosi and Warren, and many others who can run rings around any of the GOpers for a general election audience.

    The GOP will be fighting a twilight civil war over the next few weeks, and then trying to patch up general election campaign on the fly with a Trump candidacy that blows up a lot of their usual political schtick, and their candidates are wasting their time pandering to the most extreme wing of the GOP.

    It will be closer than comfort, as it always is, but I wouldn’t want to switch situations with the GOP.

  184. 184.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    First Corinthians or as “strong Christian” Donald Trump would say “One Corinthian”

  186. 186.

    Nate Dawg

    @Mike J: Love is patient, love is kind part. She was clearly drawing a contrast between Fascism’s Xenophobia and Hatred and the Charity that Early Christianity taught. It was powerful, I believe.

  187. 187.

    Elizabelle

    @Ruckus: Did a search, and that critter is absent after a diva-ish final appearance on the morning thread, once it was dead.

    Trolling, trolling, trolling …

    To save you having to go back:

    DCF: Well, I must admit that I clearly misjudged (some of) the commentariat on BJ – and to those people (you know who you are), I can only wish you the best and hope that your heads and hearts are someday open to all that is possible….

    Real change is difficult and inevitable, and fear wears many disguises. Here’s to your efforts at confronting both….

    Got that? We’re scaredy catz. With hard, hard hearts and heads.

  190. 190.

    rikyrah

    PragmaticObotsUnite @PragObots
    Black voter turnout in #SCPrimary is NOT about Blacks liking Hillary better than Obama.It’s abt Black voters keeping Trump/GOP out of the WH

  191. 191.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:
    We always vote for the least worse of the group. Just the way politics is. 8 yrs ago we got a chance to see what is possible and although President Obama has been the best president I’ve voted for (especially considering the shit congress he’s had to put up with most of the time) he is not perfect. No one is, and Clinton and Sanders both fall into that category as well. But while having a president with a pleasing personality is nice, I’m more concerned with having one that works hard and as effectively as possible for the goals that I feel are important and possible. That’s what makes President Obama great, the nice personality is just icing.

  192. 192.

    Nate Dawg

    @daves910: She’s winning white people now, BTW. So she won white and black vote.

    Sanders is toast, if you didn’t know that already.

  193. 193.

    Nate Dawg

    @Baud: “Yeah, yeah, First Season of Corinthians. Great show. Classic Reality TV. Ratings weren’t as good as the Apprentice, of course–it’s a fact, look it up. But it was a good show.”

  194. 194.

    Applejinx

    @Ruckus: Why would you want to hear from DCF here? :/

    I’m hoping some of my fellow bernistas give this thread space, let people enjoy it.

  196. 196.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Nate Dawg:

    This is why only White People(tm) should be allowed to vote. The Jews and Colored can’t be trusted to know what is in their best interest.

    That’s pretty much how it works at my country club! And BTW, they adhere to an older and stricter definition of “white”–Italians, Irish, Eastern Europeans, etc. don’t make the cut.

  198. 198.

    magurakurin

    @jl: I think once Devine and Weaver are out of the picture we will see a change in Sanders’ tone toward Clinton. I also believe that the post-mortem on the campaign will not show those two in a positive light.

    But, then again, those two are actually my biggest problem with the Sanders’ campaign. I really don’t want those two running the general election campaign.

  200. 200.

    cmorenc

    Trump called Clinton to congratulate her on her HOOOGE win in South Carolina. OK, so I have no evidence that this has actually happened, but it would be irresponsible not to speculate about fun hypotheticals.

  201. 201.

    Bob In Portland

    Not to throw any shade on the coronation, but what kind of voting machines are they using in SC? If the pollsters were over 25% off on the final result, anyone have an explanation?

  203. 203.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: Nobody thinks black voters in SC like HRC better than Obama. It’s stupid to even bother saying so here.

  205. 205.

    Helen

    Chuck Todd haz a sad. Hillary is gonna win. So now he says this win may demoralize voters. STFU Chuck Todd. Oh wait says Brian. What about the emails? Chuck is now happy.

  209. 209.

    WaterGirl

    @daves910:

    Watergirl you decry gloating and then post a hate Hillary-very bad form, almost hypocritical.?

    I don’t think it’s at all hypocritical for me to say that even though I really dislike Hillary Clinton and do not want her as president, I believe that what we need to concentrate on is making sure that one of the republicans must not win. That’s what’s most important.

    I don’t understand why it has to be a personal thing where people attack one another. I shouldn’t have to love or even like Hillary to be on the same side as every other sane person who doesn’t want one of these dangerous republicans to be president.

  210. 210.

    debbie

    @rikyrah:

    It’s abt Black voters keeping Trump/GOP out of the WH

    Good to see this, but I’m still concerned about the voter suppression that’s sure to come.

  211. 211.

    magurakurin

    @Elizabelle: From the paid ratfucker manual chapter 1: when your cover is blown, post a goodbye cruel world and move on to more fertile ground.

  212. 212.

    Corner Stone

    @jl: Anyone who uses “nails on a chalkboard” to describe anything by HRC should not be listened to about anything D politics. And should delete their stupid fucking account.
    Nails on a chalkboard. Go fuck yourself, Tweety.

  213. 213.

    Emma

    @WaterGirl: No offense but if Obama is your benchmark, you are doomed to disappointment. Obama’s combination of charisma, ethics, and political savvy doesn’t come along very often.

  214. 214.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Mike J: That never made sense. In keeping with the show’s theme they should have sent her to a fictional school that was as quirky as Stars Hollow.

  217. 217.

    Ruckus

    @Elizabelle:
    Well towards the end I agreed with others that DCF was probably a right wing plant with a job order to get Sanders nominated. Remembering his comments and their tone and seeing what happened when people pushed back to his use of right wing mimes, I’d say we weren’t wrong.
    Just in case it also wasn’t clear I was being sarcastic, a trait which I seem to take to naturally.

    ETA for clarity.

  221. 221.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Precincts Reporting 56.96%

    Clinton……….74.4%
    Sanders……..24.9%

    If this holds, the polls leading up to today and today’s exit polls were way off.

  222. 222.

    magurakurin

    @Applejinx: It’s a primary. Someone has to lose. Every single regular poster here is going to vote for, send money to, and burn offerings for the Democratic nominee. That nominee is going to be Clinton. The primaries will wind their way out to the convention now.

    Nobody will celebrate until she puts this thing away in November. Then, you will see celebration…or as in my case, a deep sigh of relief.

  223. 223.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Helen: This is why Baud! and I recommended awhile back to turn off Clinton hating MSNBC, in favor of bland but mostly non-hating CNN.

  224. 224.

    Nate Dawg

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: The polls were very old. The exit polls showed a 40+ victory. The exit polls were more in line with the result, which is not entirely in. The polls on RCP were old, old, old. We didn’t have a lot of polling in SC, so it’s not surprising the result is what it is.

  225. 225.

    Steve in the ATL

    @cmorenc:

    Trump called Clinton to congratulate her on her HOOOGE win in South Carolina. OK, so I have no evidence that this has actually happened, but it would be irresponsible not to speculate about fun hypotheticals.

    He also invited her to his next two weddings

  226. 226.

    WaterGirl

    @jl: Barack Obama isn’t just a hard act to follow; he’s really an impossible act to follow. At least for me, he is. I think he’s authentic and brilliant and caring and charismatic and has an almost magical ability to keep his balance when everything around him is crazy. I feel genuine love and affection for Barack Obama.

    It’s beyond depressing to go from that to two democratic candidates who I think are not great choices for president, each in their own way. But I live in the real world where I don’t always get what I want, even when it’s terribly important to me. So I think we all need to link our virtual arms and fight for our democracy. Because surely with Hillary or Bernie we will still have a democracy. I don’t know what the hell we would have with Trump or one of the others, but it sure as hell won’t be anything like the world as we know it.

    So, yeah, I think we all need to be on the same side and focus on a democrat winning in November. Coattails matter a lot, too. We need the senate in our hands.

  227. 227.

    Nate Dawg

    @Wrb: Who are these people that think Sanders is a slamdunk against Trump but Hillary is not? This flies in the face of all political science (closer to middle wins, all things equal) and also just common sense.

    Trump would SQUASH Sanders. He would yell COMMIE for 5 months straight, and Bernie supporters would moan and whine about how awful and unfair it is, and no one would give a flying fuck.

    Bernie can’t fling mud and would be promptly steamrolled. Clinton can appeal to the moderate middle, and the silent majority is about to speak–in favor of Clinton. Nominate Sanders, and the moderate middle actually stays home. Keep in mind Conservatives outnumber LIberals, still. So chill.

  230. 230.

    Davis X. Machina

    @Nate Dawg: This does not take into consideration the tens, if not scores, of millions of non-voters, the lion’s share of whom are natural social democrats, who would flood the polls now that a sufficiently-left candidate has finally been offered to them.

    Or so I’ve been told.

  231. 231.

    WaterGirl

    @Emma:

    Obama’s combination of charisma, ethics, and political savvy doesn’t come along very often.

    I know that. I’d have to be an idiot not to know that. It just makes accepting the less bad candidate a lot harder.

  234. 234.

    magurakurin

    @WaterGirl: Hillary Clinton isn’t that bad. In fact, she’s pretty damn good. Don’t sweat it too much. When the dust settles on the primary, you might even start finding that you like her.

    November. No Pasarán.

  235. 235.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Nate Cohn ‎@Nate_Cohn

    Wow. Updated exit poll has Clinton up 87-13 among black voters, up 53-47 among white voters. Implies a 75-25 victory for Clinton.

    That smell. That gasoline smell…. (video)

  236. 236.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: Please don’t take this the wrong way: he’s also human. He’s made plenty of mistakes. He’s exceedingly cautious (I’ve got some socio-cultural speculation on this as learned behavior, but we can save that for a different time); he often, especially in his first time, spent a lot of time pre-negotiating with himself; and he believed in the good nature of his former colleagues on the Hill because they were his former colleagues and he is invested in the system, its norms, and its operations. Instead his outstretched hand was met with slaps and insults time and time again. Now some of this was itself calculation: to demonstrate that he was reasonable and his opponents were not, but he’s not perfect. And if he’d had a better party apparatus supporting him, with good GOTV in the mid terms – and as de facto party leader that he didn’t make sure that stuff was in place is a mark against him, and a Congressional opposition that functioned like it was supposed to instead of like the unreasonable parliamentary party it has turned itself into, I have little doubt we would be in an even better place than we are now. But, again, he’s human and he’s not perfect. And holding others to his standard, even accounting for his flaws, is unfair to them.

  239. 239.

    Nate Dawg

    @WaterGirl: I just remember the Bush years, and I have no problem with it at all.

    Just a question: what is the one surefire way Donald can spur the kind of economic growth he is promising to the rabble? Anyone . . . . . anyone . . . . .

    The answer to this will get you in the right mindset.

  240. 240.

    oldgold

    Tonight, CNN’s coverage is much better than MSNBC’s. They are actually doing some analysis based on the vote.

    This surprises me, given I am pretty much a MSNBC viewer. Gave up on CNN during build up to Iraq War.

    Mitchell and O’Donnel are unwatchable. Maddow has ability, but it is not as a co-anchor.

  244. 244.

    Ruckus

    @Mr. Twister:
    Interesting article for sure.
    My mom got to shake Bill Clinton’s hand at an event a long time ago and she felt pretty much the same way if not the same degree about him, that he was a real person under that mantle of being a politician. To me Hillary Clinton seems to be a real person first and a politician for her trade. And I’m glad I worked for and voted for President Obama 8 yrs ago instead of her and that I get to do the same for her now.

  246. 246.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Via (Trix):

    South Carolina campaign staffs:

    Clinton………..2 offices……..14 paid staffers
    Sanders…….10 offices…..240 paid staffers

  249. 249.

    WaterGirl

    @Adam L Silverman: I couldn’t agree more. Barack Obama is most definitely human, and there have been any number of things he has done (or not done) that I haven’t liked or agreed with. But l trust him and I love that he is a steady-Eddie and I feel that while he is not perfect, we are in good hands while he is driving the bus.

    Edit: It’s not that I feel Hillary and Bernie are flawed candidates because they can’t measure up to Barack Obama – I don’t believe anyone can. I could have been excited about Sherrod Brown, for instance, even though he’s not Barack Obama. As I tried to explain above, it’s just that when they follow Barack Obama, it’s a harder fall to accept candidates I am not crazy about.

  252. 252.

    jl

    @magurakurin: I don’t know if the resident semi-troll was addressing me, but I would never use ‘nails on a chalkboard’ to describe HRC. I think she is running a much better campaign now. I think she needs to be a bit more centrist now to appeal to more conservative Dem states, and to silence any BS about a Bloomberg run, and make such a thing like the complete waste it would be. Won’t hard for her to run a Bernally Clinters in November, and if Trump is nom, his moderation on social insurance and jobs program issues will be a big incentive for her to do just that.

    I think we have to hope that trying to run his political revolution from a high perch in a Democratic Senate will be enough incentive for Sanders to badger and yell and inspire his troops out to vote in November.

  254. 254.

    ruemara

    @kc: Sounds like you already have. whether you wish to fully enunciate it or no.

    @The Thin Black Duke: tell it. They don’t have to like us, but they’ll thank us when we save America from themselves by pushing a Democratic slate of victories. We’ve survived American history by organizing ourselves and dying for incremental change. They want to share memes and rally to a new world. OK, how’s that going?

    @WaterGirl: I find Al is telling my progressive betters the impossible. case in point, KC, Raven on the Hill. I mean, for pity’s sake, please, just stop.

  257. 257.

    Elizabelle

    SE Cupp talking about Clinton’s high negatives.

    Got me to hit the “mute” button and might just turn off CNN.

  258. 258.

    magurakurin

    @jl: I think he will. And the vast, vast majority of all Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton and a large number of those will do so happily, I’d reckon. The ratfucking that the New York Times article discussed the other day is seriously skewing the viewpoints on the intertubes.

    But Trump won’t be a push over. This is going to be a long and bloody one.

  260. 260.

    magurakurin

    85% in. It looks like the total is going to be 74 to 26. Sanders decision to make a rather public showing of abandoning the South may have really backfired. If similar results show up across the South on Tuesday, this is over.

    I’m really curious about Minnesota. Almost no polling at all. Maybe because it is a caucus and they are so hard to poll?

    The caucus system needs to die a horrible death. The single biggest and quick improvement in the nominating system would be to outlaw the caucus and make every primary an election. The schedule is a tougher problem to solve, but the caucuses are just a stupid way to make a decision.

  262. 262.

    NotMax

    @jl

    She’s never been all that highly skilled at the art of speech giving, way too often coming across on the TV as lecturing instead (it may be different to those in the same room). Volume as a fallback tool is a less effective way to convey emotion than is vocal modulation and strength of rhetoric in the cool medium (thank you, Prof. McLuhan) of television.

  263. 263.

    Nate Dawg

    @magurakurin: The Trump train could come crashing down. He’s reckless. Extremely reckless.

    He said “bigly” the other night. It’s not a fucking word.

    One wind gust blowing his combover to unknown heights and exposing a bright red scalp underneath would go viral. One video of him refusing to shake someone’s hand (a child perhaps?) One hot-mic showing him asking for “easy questions”–oops! that already happened!

    Okay, so really it is up to the media to do the heavy lifting.

    Frankly, I’m watching MSNBC run a propaganda piece on the Donald right now, and it’s sickening. We have MSNBC fluffing a real, actual Fascist. Just disgusting.

  264. 264.

    Elizabelle

    @magurakurin: Agree re caucuses. They leave too many people out.

    Primaries are the way to go, and more representative. Not caucuses, not conventions.

  266. 266.

    Elizabelle

    @magurakurin: From May 2015.

    Thank you. Had missed that article.

    I find a lot of the NY Times reader comments suspect. Too much Hillary bashing and Bernie-shilling. I suspect actual Democrats are far more concerned with retaining the White House, and don’t want to weaken their frontrunner.

    Reminding readers of her faults at every turn? Uh, no.

  267. 267.

    Aleta

    @WaterGirl: I expect people all over the country will cry when Pres. and FL Obama leave office. I guess the pain number (“on a scale of 1-10 how would you describe”) will (hopefully) still be outranked by the joy we felt each time he was elected. I hope he keeps giving speeches and leading by example for years. I admire the openness with which you are turning over what’s in your heart on here.

  268. 268.

    Matt McIrvin

    @WaterGirl: I’ve been vaguely conscious of politics since the Nixon administration, and voting for presidents since Bush/Dukakis, and one of the constants was always that these were kind of weird, off putting people even on my side.

    Barack Obama was the only exception I can think of. Maybe Jimmy Carter post-presidency, but I’m not sure.

    I always felt a little hypocritical talking about the stupidity of “who would you like to have a beer with” because the only President I would really like to have a beer with is Obama.

  270. 270.

    WaterGirl

    @ruemara: I’m not quite sure what you’re saying there, maybe I’m just dense tonight.

    I think there are a lot of progressives who can take in what Al is saying and understand that he’s right. In fact when I read that paragraph, it put words to what I had been thinking myself, only I didn’t have a good way to express it.

    But it’s also obvious that there are a lot of people who can’t seem to get it. I am reminded of being told that some joke about rape is funny when as a woman I know that it absolutely was not funny. They don’t even know what they don’t know.

  271. 271.

    Corner Stone

    @jl: Jesus Christ. So you’re really too fucking stupid to see what I was referring to off your comment?

  272. 272.

    WaterGirl

    @Aleta: Thank you for saying that. I will be crying for sure!

    I would be in a bigger panic if I didn’t feel like President Obama will be getting people riled up to understand what’s at stake in this election and get people out to vote. If democrats would just vote we could win for sure.

    Just like the president told that little girl, he’ll still be around when he isn’t president anymore. :-)

  275. 275.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Elizabelle: Clinton’s high negatives are real; the polling is pretty consistent. Trump’s are higher… by about 4 points. This is going to be tough and nasty, no way around it. But there’s been no real general election campaign yet. The Republicans can only attack Trump from the standpoint of also being right-wing assholes, which is fighting in handcuffs.

  276. 276.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Nate Dawg:

    Frankly, I’m watching MSNBC run a propaganda piece on the Donald right now, and it’s sickening. We have MSNBC fluffing a real, actual Fascist. Just disgusting.

    One of the things Matt Taibbi’s piece pointed out is that the American political media establishment is sort of curious about what it’d be like to have a bona fide fascist cult-of-personality president, as long as they get to be the approved mouthpieces of El Presidente. And Taibbi worked long enough in Moscow to know what that smells like.

  278. 278.

    Ruckus

    @Gex:
    Who said it was a typo?
    Sometimes good jokes just write themselves.

    Of course this wasn’t one of those times.

  280. 280.

    WaterGirl

    @Emma: It’s just that now I know it doesn’t have to be that way, which makes it much harder. I do think that’s a bad thing, for me. It’s much better, for me at least, to really believe in someone than have to settle. Just the way I’m built, I guess. YMMV.

  281. 281.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:
    It shouldn’t have to be that way but we are voting for humans (at least on our side of the aisle) and none of them are perfect. In my trade we have a saying, Perfect Enough. Because no matter how hard we try we can never make something perfect. We try but the only way we score 100% is by pure luck, no matter how good a craftsman we are. And that reason is that our tools are designed, built and operated by humans, and it’s the same controlling system in politics. President Obama is not a fluke, he’s just very good and at the right place at the right time. We got lucky. Very lucky. And yet he’s only Perfect Enough. We probably won’t get that lucky again in my lifetime, seeing as it’s only happened once so far and I’m reasonably old.

  282. 282.

    WaterGirl

    @Ruckus: Agreed.

    Where I worked, the phrases were “close enough for government work” and “not everything has to be a 4-color publication”.

    They may have started out meaning something very specific, but they became shorthand for “good enough”. That’s how I feel about Sherrod Brown. I like and respect him; he’s sensible and authentic and knowledgeable. He’s no Barack Obama, but I trust him; he would have been good enough.

    Edit: and in spite of his flaws, Joe Biden would have been good enough for me this time around, too. I like and respect and trust him; he’s sensible and authentic and knowledgeable.

  283. 283.

    Raven Onthill

    I am a big black bird, and am not all that sure I get hominids. But this I know: not death, nor hunger, nor yet loneliness know the color of your skin. When I see people ignoring the death and misery of their own I wonder why.

    More later, maybe, if the thread hasn’t died.

  284. 284.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:
    Close enough for government work is what we use when making something for ourselves, and what we used in the navy. Perfect enough is about 5 steps higher up the ladder.

    I like Biden for the same reasons. As a human. But his record and his skill as a politician are at best mixed and I just don’t see him in the big chair. Yes, I’d bet he could fill the role if he had to, which of course I hope he never has to do. But I do respect him highly.

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