Earlier today efgoldman asked about what was happening with Cliven Bundy’s cows.
The short answer is that the BLM, coordinating with the Department of Justice, is trying to figure out what to do with them. They are still under a seizure order from a Federal court due to the unpaid grazing fees and the overdue fines on those fees.
However, BLM has several concerns:
1) There are still Bundys and their supporters at his Bunkerville Ranch and in the surrounding communities that could place BLM personnel at risk.
2) In relation to item 1, Cliven Bundy has sent violently threatening letters to many of the companies that BLM would contract with to do the removal, transport, and/or house the cattle. So none of the companies want to get involved. This is almost a textbook example of the state level crime known as terrorizing/making terroristic threats.
3) The cattle are a special breed of Brahman, imported from India, that can handle high heat, little water, and sparse vegetation. They are also known for having particularly unpleasant dispositions and have been compared to Cape Buffalo. So they are naturally smart and ornery and Bundy has essentially let them go feral. So this isn’t like rounding up the normal, dimwitted cows we often see on TV. Rather it is trying to round up large, nasty, smart, aggressive, feral animals. And trying to do so in harsh conditions with a potential threat of human directed violence against those doing the round up.
4) It is also important to remember that Bundy doesn’t brand his cattle – it is estimated that 3/4 of his herd (approximately 750 out of 1,000 total) are unbranded. Nor has he taken proper care of them. So in addition to being feral, and a specialty breed, because they’ve not had proper veterinary care there is no telling what they are carrying disease wise. This means that bringing them anywhere where they can come into contact with other ranchers’ cattle, or even people, is not a good idea. In order to do this right they would have to a) round them up, b) transport them in a controlled manner to a containment facility – at this point they become temporary property/in custody of the State of Nevada, c) have each cow evaluated by a veterinarian, d) go through a complete course of treatment for whatever they might have, e) be reevaluated to make sure they’re disease free, and then finally to f) be made available for auction with the proceeds going to pay off Cliven Bundy’s outstanding grazing fees and the fines and interest that has accrued on them. That last step of putting them up for auction only comes after Cliven Bundy is given a chance to pay his overdue fees and the fines and the court costs to reclaim his cattle. If he refuses to do so, or fails to do so, the BLM can apply to the State of Nevada Brand Inspector to sell the unbranded cattle. If the application is approved the cattle can then, finally be auctioned, but only the approximately 750 or so without brands. I do not know what happens to the remaining branded cattle.
It is important to keep in mind that Bundy owes over a million dollars in fees, fines, and court costs, but his 1,000 head herd is only valued at around $800,000 and only the unbranded 3/4 (750) can be auctioned or sold to recoup the fees and fines. So that reduces the estimated value of a sale to about $600,000. The estimates of a round up are right around the same price as the estimated value of all of Bundy’s cattle. So no matter what happens he’s going to cost the taxpayers more money than can be recouped in settling the matter. I’ve not seen anyone provide an estimate on damage his cattle has cost, or even how that money could be recouped, but it probably raises the financial stakes here a lot as well.
Since all of the above is a real pain in the tookhas, right now no one is doing anything but monitoring the situation. Some of it is that I’m not really sure anyone really knows the best way to go about all of the above so that Cliven Bundy and his cattle don’t cost the taxpayer any more money than they already have. You’re only other option is to basically slaughter the entire herd where they currently are, which I’m pretty sure is not legal at all.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
This guy really needs to get arrested, prosecuted and convicted. He needs to spend the rest of his life in jail somewhere. Dickhead…
Adam L Silverman
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): He’s been arrested. Prosecution to follow. Conviction will be up to a jury of his peers.
mirele
I dunno…hunting season? Except, given the fact that there’s been a lack of care on the part of Cliven Bundy towards the cattle, I’d be afraid to touch the cattle, much less eat them.
debbie
Round the cows up and start a GoFundMe for ransom. All of Bundy’s supporters, I’m sure, would be happy to kick in some bucks to get the cows back and prove themselves as excellent sovereign citizens. Use the proceeds to repair the damage done to the refuge.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Adam L Silverman: I knew his lowlife kids got themselves arrested, but I didn’t know, or had forgotten, that he’s been.
D58826
Oh well there goes my idea. Can’t they be judged a public heath hazard and put down like a rabid dog or wolf would be? Up in Montana/Wyoming they are putting down about 1000 buffalo, in part because of the remote possibility that the buffalo will spread bursolus(sp) to the local domestic cattle.
Elmo
@D58826: brucellosis. Which is very very bad news.
The Pale scot
At Los Alamos during the Manhattan project they had a problem with neighboring ranches cattle wandering onto the base. After several attempts to get the ranchers to keep them off the hard ass General (Groves?) in charge mounted .50’s on some trucks, sent them thru the field and gunned them down. Then dragged the bodies over the base perimeter and left them. Never had that problem again.
I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some provision in the Patriot Act to allow the feds to do that.
SFAW
Feral? Doesn’t take care of them? What a fucking asshole. What the hell did he do with the cattle? Sell them for butchering? Contaminated steaks, boy oh boy. Or just have them so he could flip the bird to Uncle Sam by letting them graze for “free”?
It’s amazing that Ammon and his idiot brother(s) reached (calendar-wise) adulthood, with a stupid, evil dickhead like that for a father
Pogonip
Can the cattle be slaughtered and any non-diseased ones be used as food in homeless and domestic violence shelters? Considering the conditions in Americqn slaughterhouses, at least some of these cattle are likely to be no more dangerous to eat than what you buy at the grocery.
This asshole is going to cost us a lot of money for the rest of his life. If released, he’ll resume doing what he has been. If imprisoned, he gets food, shelter, and medical care, luxuries not accorded to many law-abiding citizens. I’d like to see a change in the law so that people like him are required to work off their debt to their fellow citizens.
FlyingToaster
Actually, I expect that it is legal. You put all of the cattle through the vets, and simply process the healthy animals for meat, gelatin, etc. Branded or otherwise. Proceeds to clear Bundy’s debt.
There’s no requirement to sell at auction. It’s what BLM is used to doing, but in this case, with feral specialty breed(s), the risks of doing so outweigh the gains. Best to contract with an abattoir and be done with it.
kc
How are 1000 shitty (apparently) cows worth $800k?
kc
This seems like a good time to stop eating beef.
Mobile RoonieRoo
I don’t understand what this ranches business is based on this. It doesn’t sound like this is a working ranch at all.
kc
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Yep, he flew to Oregon, and they arrested his dumb ass when he got off the plane.
Aimai
How does he prove unbranded, feral, animals running wild on federal land are his? How would he have standing to sue?
Chyron HR
@Mobile RoonieRoo:
They don’t know how the US government works despite having 240 years of experience to draw from. Why should they know how to run a ranch?
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Aimai:
Typically, ear-tagging and record keeping. But in this case I doubt he can prove that he owns most of them.
Skepticat
[well, okay, perhaps not smart],
And this is different from the Republican presidential campaign how?
bk
“herd”
Ultraviolet Thunder
@kc:
They’ll be worth tens of millions in the RWNJ legend that that a government seizure would generate.
Ruckus
@Pogonip:
That’s what is supposed to make us better than them. We take care of them rather than just putting them up against the wall. Besides he obviously didn’t do much work on his “ranch”, not sure he’s capable at his age of being anything more than a bed weight. Plus living his life out in jail rather than on his ranch where he’s the BMOC would be fitting. Lock him up like the piece of shit he is.
@FlyingToaster:
According to what Adam said, none of the companies that process the cattle want to touch them. So it’s rock and hard place to clear up this mess. Maybe even one of the reasons Bundy was being a total dick about the issue, he knew that he’d get nothing from them, because he’s not actually an active rancher. Just a nut job.
K488
This doesn’t remind me of ranching so much as it reminds me of running a cult, only with cattle rather than women and children. This whole thing has reminded me of the Branch Davidians, and this treatment of his cattle – letting them run feral; no veterinary service – just fits right in. Treating people as property chimes with this kind of treatment of cattle: ownership, dominion, but no responsibility towards good stewardship. And of course, stewardship is not even an appropriate term to be used with regards to adult humans, so this to me shows that even within the dimensions of a belief system that would espouse this kind of male dominance, this behavior is failing. Whoo! Longest comment I’ve ever posted.
Linda Featheringill
So we’re going to wind up with wild, aggressive cows roaming the West. Interesting.
I’m not in favor of killing them but I don’t have any constructive suggestions. If they manage to come into contact with nice, tame Herefords or something, they’ll probably change the family trees of those animals.
Half Hereford, half Brahman. Hmmmmm . . . .
ETA:
I was raised on a ranch. You couldn’t just shoo the Brahmans away. NOBODY with any sense at all tries to interfere with a bull in full rut mode. Even the “domesticated” bulls.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Linda Featheringill:
But remember, they’re chewing up and trampling Federal land. The grazing fees he wasn’t paying were supposed to go toward land management. So at the moment these 1000 big free range ungulates are a destructive invasive species.
scav
Imported, that is to say alien, cows, wandering feral and undomesticated (unassimilated) across other people’s sovereign lands in addition to all the federal sort. Sort of a mixed message. The anti-immigrant crowd should in theory be somewhat grumpy (“‘Mercan! steak not good enough for you hombre?”) plus their Indian possibly Muslim by proximity but certainly non-judeo-xian divinity links to confuse any of the sagebrush-god-botherers, but on the upside, I think the anti-vax crowd are a lock.
Felonius Monk
Brucellosis Bundy and his CowShit Rangers are legends in their own minds. Most real ranchers don’t want anything to do with them.
I wouldn’t be surprised if all his unbranded cattle mysteriously die of lead poisoning. The animals don’t deserve it, but the buzzards will be well fed.
FlyingToaster
@Ruckus: I suspect that it wasn’t the abbatoirs, it was the cowboys* who want no part of this whatsoever.
* Not guys on horses with ropes. It’s the firms who specialize in capturing herd animals gone feral, and there aren’t that many companies in the field. Western ranchers know who they are, so they can successfully threaten these companies.
Bleeble Blabble
How did this welfare clown ever make any money from his ranch?
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: He would slaughter them either for food for his own family or to sell out of a refrigerated meat locker on his property to anyone who would buy it. No federal inspection, no USDA markings, nothing.
Adam L Silverman
@The Pale scot: Its not the 1940s anymore. Usually that’s a good thing!
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: Again, the cattle have to clear through the unbranded, seized cattle process with the state of Nevada Brand Investigator. So once that were to happen, yes, potentially they could be slaughtered and the meat donated provided it was deemed safe for human consumption.
RoonieRoo
@Bleeble Blabble: That’s what I’m trying to figure out.
Adam L Silverman
@Mobile RoonieRoo: Its not, its a tax dodge and ag welfare scam. Technically, I think, he’s a melon farmer, not a cattle rancher, but I’m not really sure how he’s making any money on the melon farming either. His family owns the land outright, I’m sure he puts in for every agricultural benefit he can even remotely justify as a subsidy, and he doesn’t pay his grazing fees.
scav
What is it with these self-sufficient self-made men and it always being the other guys responsibility to build fences/walls? ca 2014 State faults Cliven Bundy in I-15 cow crash.
Hal
Every time there’s a Bundy ranch update I have to mentally remind myself that BLM is Bureau of Land Management and not Black Lives Matter. Always a confusing couple of seconds.
Central Planning
Isn’t the size of the herd just going to grow if we don’t do anything?
And, I have a friend whose family owns a dairy. He says each cow is worth approximately $2,000. However, they produce milk. I’m pretty sure we’re not going to get any milk out of Bundy’s cows.
Adam L Silverman
@Aimai: Breed. He’s the only one in the area that has that breed of cattle. And the unbranded ones are likely the progeny of the branded ones, so genetic testing.
Adam L Silverman
@Skepticat: For cows, they are, supposedly, one of the more intelligent breeds.
Adam L Silverman
@bk: Let me guess I have an extra “a” somewhere? thanks, I’ll go find it and fix it.
Bob Munck
Allow an unlimited number of ammosexuals into the area with all their guns to hunt, but forbid them to wear any kind of bright orange or red protective clothing — cow-colored cameo only. A partial solution to two problems.
Adam L Silverman
@K488: He and his family are very well to the furthermost fringes of Church of Latter Day Saints belief. As I’ve written before, they’re adherents of Cleon Skousen, who was well outside of the LDS mainstream even in the 50s and 60s.
RoonieRoo
@Adam L Silverman: That makes a lot more sense. I really wonder how much the actual real ranchers in the area must hate this family. How many of them are left on the ranch now with so many of them in jail.
TaMara (BHF)
Feral, invasive species…as much as I hate to say it, it sounds like the only option is to kill the entire herd where they are and then what…incinerate them? Add that cost to Bundy’s fines. A 1000 head could easily turn into a unmanageable invasion and destroy a lot of native habit, causing a cascade of environmental disasters. See: feral pigs.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
The evil government that is taking away all his rights? That evil government is paying him and not getting taxes or grazing fees? I can’t believe such an upstanding citizen would demand money from an illegal government that is completely out of control………
/snark,
just in case you didn’t recognize it.
Adam L Silverman
@scav: Its been a major problem They tear up other rancher’s grazing allotments, because he doesn’t manage them, as well as other wildlife areas. They interfere with hikers and campers and hunters. One of the wildlife areas had a dove hunt scheduled, but had to cancel it at one point because his cattle were in the area and no one could guarantee the safety of the hunters.
MattF
I guess Bundy’s cattle ‘business’ is just a scam. Oops, I mean a demonstration of the rights of sovereign citizens. Or whatever. But it’s not, how you say, surprising– not in any shape, manner or form.
Tripod
@Ruckus:
Just a guess, but it’s likely local slaughterhouses are the ones worried about the yahoos. They could truck them to the LA basin or Phoenix or wherever, where no one will give a shit, but that will drive up the cost to process.
Contrary to their claims, these Bundy idiots are terrible stewards of the land and their animals. A feral, un-managed herd will have to be culled. They are a health and environmental risk to everyone else’s cattle and the public land.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
I wouldn’t be surprised if the BLM plans to treat them like the Klumps:
Of course, the Klumps didn’t take over a national wildlife refuge and terrorize a town for weeks…
We’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@SFAW:
Apparently the reason Ammon’s face is partially paralyzed is that a family member accidentally rolled an ATV over his head when he was a kid. So, yeah, Mr. Bundy took about as much care with their kids as they did of their cattle.
Adam L Silverman
@FlyingToaster: Yep, there’s a link to an article about that in my post. He basically sent threatening letters to them in 2012 (the first attempted round up under the court order), so that in 2014 BLM could only get one company to bid on the work. The bid was $780,000 to round up $800,000 worth of cattle in an attempt to get $1.3 million in fees and fines recouped.
scav
This link at the top seems to have a lot of details on pricing assumptions and exact threats plus that people are looking for.
Adam L Silverman
@Bleeble Blabble: He owns the land outright. He’s got some BS claim about how his land was purchased by his family before the state was even a territory, which isn’t true the land was purchased when he was a baby and the family moved onto it when he was a toddler. So I’m guessing he’s found some way to not pay his property taxes. He likely claims every agricultural subsidy possible as well. Technically, I think he’s really a melon farmer.
slag
@Ruckus: That’s ok. It doesn’t count as wastefraudandabuse unless the money is going to underprivileged black people.
Ruckus
@TaMara (BHF):
I’d think your solution is the correct one. Too much risk of disease with slaughter seems like a real possibility and leaving them to roam free can’t be good either.
I wonder if there are many more of these idiots running free like Bundy was. Is this problem a lot worse than we think it might be?
Adam L Silverman
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Unless the trial goes really sideways, Cliven Bundy will receive a defacto life sentence without parole. The Feds aren’t going to plea bargain him down on these charges in order to get his cattle rounded up. Klump was in custody on a contempt of court charge. That’s a lot different than what Cliven Bundy has been charged with.
Roger Moore
@TaMara (BHF):
Leave them for scavengers. I’m sure the coyotes and condors will appreciate it.
Adam L Silverman
@scav: Amazing how that works, right?//
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: Its already happening. There are reports of the cattle being malnourished and diseased and of frequent sitings of dead Bundy cow carcasses. Its a health hazard for the ranching community in the area already.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t think they money is the main point; it’s just a source of leverage to get the Bundys to do what BLM wants. The major point is to get the cattle out of areas where they aren’t supposed to be.
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: I’m tracking, but when you put the estimated dollar amounts in it shows just how bizarre the whole thing is.
The Pale scot
Kill the cattle, helicopter them to the Bundy’s ranch, and drop them from say about 5000 ft to avoid rifle fire, let them deal with the clean up.
Just making sure he gets his cattle back. If he bitches tell him if we thought you wouldn’t shoot at us we’d have delivered them in the usual way.
scav
@Adam L Silverman: There was this blue thing glowing at me, I decided to take a chance.
Matt McIrvin
What a mess. It’s hard for me to see how anyone could regard this guy as unfairly put-upon by the tyrannical government without being seriously unclear on how reality operates. I think Andreas Schou put it best on Google+: “This isn’t a ranching operation. This is… wild cow hunting.”
Matt McIrvin
@The Pale scot: As God is my witness, I thought cattle could fly.
Ten Bears
Shoot them.
Bill_D
@Adam L Silverman: His family owns the land outright
To clarify for those not familiar with western land ownership patterns, the usual situation in the arid west (outside of fertile river valleys) is for the bulk of the landscape to be federally owned. Scattered, relatively moist, and comparatively small spots across the arid landscape were homesteaded long ago. These now serve as “base properties” for ranching operations that depend almost entirely on grazing allotments on the surrounding federal lands. For instance, a ranch might have a 320-acre base property (1/2 square mile) and graze cattle on 30,000 acres of federal land. The base property might even be suitable for a small amount of conventional agriculture, usually hay farming. The Bundy ranch is in a hot enough location that apparently melon farming is practical, though that must rely on irrigation from groundwater.
So the Bundys both own their own land and lease grazing rights on federal land, like most other western ranchers between the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill_D: yep, and thanks for providing the context. I think the real operative issues here are the reality of when his family purchased the property and then moved onto it and started their farm/ranch versus the fictionalized “we claimed this land before Nevada was even a state well over 150 years ago” BS.
Tripod
@scav:
Thanks. He was threatening the cowboy outfits doing the roundup.
Parties will bid a removal contract – a RANGE WAR letter penned from prison isn’t much of a threat. At this point the costs are sunk, and if some additional morons want to show up and cause trouble for the removal, law enforcement will be present and prepared.
The Pale scot
Just have to hire this guy
http://www.progressivecattle.com/news/..reward-offered-in-nevada-cattle-shootings
LAO
Adam, thanks for today’s Bundy fix. I feel much calmer and ready to face my day.
sm*t cl*de
@The Pale scot:
TREBUCHETS.
Jay C
@Adam L Silverman:
1956, I read somewhere.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay C: that’s it!
The Pale scot
@sm*t cl*de: Always wanted to get into the trebuchet business, my dad says he doesn’t think it’ll fly.
Bill_D
@Adam L Silverman: That BS has got to infuriate the Paiutes who were there long before.
Chip Daniels
I have asked before, but can’t the Feds impound or freeze Bundy’s bank account? I would think that is easier than physically rounding up cows, with less opportunity for self-styled martyrs to intervene.
RobertDSC-Quad Intel Mac
@The Pale scot: A Trumpian style wall of dead cattle on the inside of their property line would suffice.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Adam L Silverman: I agree that Cliven is likely to spend the rest of his life in federal prison. And deservedly so.
But we should remember that his kids aren’t that old and 20-30 years is enough to give them time to think about the errors of their ways. 30 years is the typical sentence for the big-name traitors, after all.
The BLM wants to end the damage to the national lands and to give closure by showing that leases must be paid. If taking 10 years off a sentence helps that happen sooner, I don’t see a problem with it. As you say, it’s hard to imagine that one of the choices is probation – they’re all going to be serving long prison sentences. But I assume they’re keeping their eye on all of the goals, not just the “lock them up” one.
We’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
Matt McIrvin
The problem isn’t really recovering the money, it’s that the cows themselves are a menace and need to be gotten rid of.
The Pale scot
@Matt McIrvin:
Maybe they could learn from Harold the clever sheep
Livestock tends to be un-aerodynamic
Adam L Silverman
@Bill_D: I would certainly think so.
kc
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m surprised the other ranchers haven’t exercised self-help here.
Adam L Silverman
@Chip Daniels: Probably not a lot of funds to seize.
kindness
Open a hunting season on the cattle. Make ’em sign waivers not to sue if they get sick eating the cattle. Why that is something Trump could get behind.
Really though, isn’t the end game taking the whole ranch? I would imagine he owes everyone taxes.
Adam L Silverman
@kc: Do you really want the Brian Cavaliers, Blaine Coopers, and Eric J. Parkers of America showing up on your ranch to inform you why you have wronged their role model? No, and neither do the other ranchers in the area.
Uncle Cosmo
@Chip Daniels: Hail, Seizure!
LAO
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: The sentences the bundys ( and the others) get for the 2014 standoff will depend entirely on whether the accept a plea or go to trial. If, they choose to go to trial and are found guilty of all of the charges, the 2 gun charges require mandatory consecutive sentences of 32 years (7 and 25). The sentences for the remaining charges can be run concurrently to each other. There best case scenario is 42 years — which is a 10 year break.
Prescott Cactus
@Adam L Silverman:
Weber, Kingsford & Sweet Baby Ray’s sounds fair to me.
muddy
@Chip Daniels: Maybe he doesn’t have a bank account. People I know who are of that mindset keep the money that they earned under the table and paid no taxes on right at home in a safe.
Adam L Silverman
@Prescott Cactus: now I’m hungry for those humongous beef ribs you can get at that one place in Austin.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@LAO: Thanks. All the more incentive for them to accept a plea deal, and for the BLM to have pretty strong conditions in any deal.
Since there wasn’t a shootout in Oregon, I assume there will be some sort of deal for at least some of the people charged.
It’ll be interesting to see how this turns out.
Cheers,
Scott.
LAO
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I doubt cliven will take a plea on the theory he will never admit to have committed a federal offense. They would lose their martyr status if they admitted guilt. The trial will be a shit sow. I hope it’s televised.
Chip Daniels
@Adam L Silverman:
But I am thinking of how crippling and punitive it can be not to just have an account frozen, but property liened, credit lines frozen, tax refunds and subsidy transfers garnished, and so on.
I’m thinking of the tools states use for child support, student loans and such that are in arrears.
He has some sort of income from some source, that can and should be attached to satisfy the judgment.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@muddy: Yup. Cliven probably thinks the Federal Reserve System is unconstitutional and wants nothing to do with the banking system. I doubt he has a bank account. (It would make it harder for the BLM to seize any assets too, coincidentally, of course. But I’m just speculating.)
Cheers,
Scott.
jsrtheta
The primary purpose of prosecution is not to break even or save money. It is to enforce the law. Fuck Bundy, and fuck what it costs.
Amir Khalid
@jsrtheta:
True. But don’t prosecutors have to work within a budget allocation, like any government servant must?
Zinsky
99 cent McRibs for everyone! Woo-hoo!
FlyingToaster
I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be better to contract to catch 100 cows.
Check them through the veternarians’ to see if any of them are healthy. I am very much afraid that they’re not. Like catch 100, 93 are ill.
Heaven help the neighbors if those cattle have something really infectious, like brucellosis (and thank Warren Zevon for my knowing what brucellosis is).
Destroying the “herd” might be the only safe option.
Mustang Bobby
My first thought was: feed the world on steak. But after a little more thought and reading, especially the part where the cattle haven’t been under a veterinarian’s care since ever, the FDA should just impound the lot of them, declare them as a public health hazard, slaughter them, and burn the carcasses on Bundy’s lawn. Then seize his property under eminent domain and give it to the local Native American tribe.
West of the Cascades
@Adam L Silverman: How about hiring a Mexican company to do the work? Seriously – the allotment where the Bundys’ cattle are is about eight hours from the border at Nogales. Sonora is a state with a fair amount of ranching. I imagine that BLM could help smooth whatever export permits/temporary contract worker permits are required, you’d still have the issue of protecting the people doing the round-up, but once the cattle are back in Mexico the chance of repercussions to the company is slim.
Applejinx
Speaking of bunkers: wait, Tulsi Gabbard was vice chair of the DNC?
Nobody here mentioned that she resigned from being vice chair of the DNC. I thought she was just some lady from Hawaii from the way it played here on Balloon Juice. VICE CHAIR? And apparently mad at being uninvited from the first debate after arguing for more debates. They can tell their OWN VICE CHAIR she is not welcome to come?
I think it ain’t only the Republicans losing their damn minds. What the fuck is going on up there?
bemused
Did all Cliven’s adult kids and grandkids live at his ranch? How many are left there now including supporters? I was going to ask how are they supporting themselves but assume many are getting government checks of one kind or another.
Mike J
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Applejinx: I think it was the fact that she was Vice Chair that made it news. It was a big part of the story when I first saw it.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bob In Portland
@Applejinx: Also, I think that there are something like six DNC vice-chairs. Apparently, they plan on a lot of vice.
Benw
@Zinsky: don’t have a cow, man.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Applejinx:
Lighten up, Francis.
Woodrowfan
an invasive species endangering humans and threatening to spread disease to other, law-abiding ranchers’ herds?
Shoot them all and bury/burn the bodies. Send the Bundy’s the bill. When they don’t pay, seize the land and give it to the local native American tribe(s)
Applejinx
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
:D sauce for the goose, eh?
Corner Stone
@Applejinx:
It was mentioned in ABOUT ELEBENTY FUCKING THREADS YOU STUPID PIECE OF GARBAGE TIME MOTHERFUCKER.
She’s an extremely conservative D.
Corner Stone
@Applejinx: Stupid fucking smiley face emojis aren’t helping you, assface.
Gin & Tonic
@Applejinx: Does every thread have to devolve to this?
Frankensteinbeck
Amazing. Every time I think the Bundys have hit the peak of being irresponsible, mooching, entitled asshats, some new report comes out that they’re even lazier than I thought. They truly embody the conservative ideal that they, and only they, are entitled to a free lunch.
Older
I don’t understand how the unbranded cattle, possibly not even provable to belong to Bundy, can be sold to pay his legal debts, but the branded cattle, which can be assumed to be his, may not be salable for that purpose.
Also, how is it that he can say that not all cattle carrying his brand are his? Who would have put his brand on them?
nutella
@Chip Daniels:
Cliven and his sons have cars, computers, internet service, suburban houses. I don’t think even in the rough, tough western states you can get all that stuff without bank accounts and bank credit. I don’t believe this hinky beef operation pulls in that much cash, either.
I hope the feds have been finding out where the funding is coming from.
muddy
@nutella: I know people in Vermont who get all those things without bank accounts and credit.
ETA: I don’t know anything about Bundy’s situation, just that it happens.
Joyce H
@Mike J:
So if a woman being confronted by clinic protesters pulls out a gun and shoots them, she’s just standing her ground? That’s good to know.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: It’s almost as though you selectively pay attention to things and latch onto only certain details!
jharp
The federal gov’t should sell the cattle.
Buy one or buy them all.
F.O.B. the Bundy ranch. Come and get them.
Shell
What a fucking mess
Anoniminous
(That was weird.)
Those cows need to get off the range before they do even more damage. I can think of several ways but none that would pass BLM regulations.
kc
@Adam L Silverman:
They don’t have to advertise it.
Mary G
I wouldn’t be surprised if Cliven et al weren’t on some kind of wingnut welfare from one or more billionaires who would profit if more federal lands were sold off and/or drift from “Patriots” who are encouraged to donate to help them keep fighting the black man in the White House.
Mary G
FY AutoCorrect, I put grift and didn’t notice it was changed to drift.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@LAO: All the trials will be shit shows, and I’ll be surprised if more that 25% plead. They’re true believers, and there’s not the financial incentive we’ve seen move people toward a more sensible decision. They have federal PDs, so there’s no penalty to them for a trial. Until sentencing, of course.
I hope it’s not televised, for all the obvious reasons. But I’d watch should that happen. What I really really really want is for the trial to begin any day other than April 19. I can’t be the only one who sees the potential for actual violence because these kooks with think it’s symbolic scheduling.
Thanks Adam, for the fix.
scav
@FlipYrWhig: But when they’re in their twee fabulous twinkle fluttering eyelash ingenue mode for the inevitable bid for attention, they just can’t be bothered, the pirouette entrance onto their stage just takes all their attention. Just a characteristic of the free-ranging feral unbranded breed.
Mary G
O/T with 3% of the vote counted in Kansas, Cruz is leading Trump 52% to 21% in the primary, with little Marco at 14%.
Dread
Lions. Import some lions.
And when we need to get rid of the lions, we can release bears.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Didn’t run the guidelines, but it has to be awesome.
LAO
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Are you feeling better today?
Applejinx
@Gin & Tonic: I really don’t like a lot of Balloon Juice posters.
The more they are flinging poo, swearing, raging and acting like Republicans, the more easily they’ll be identified as such by others.
LAO
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): also, I agree, don’t expect there will be many pleas.
JPL
@Mary G: It’s 12 percent now and Cruz is holding on to the lead. He might take Maine also.
LAO
@JPL: what’s the matter with Kansas?
Mike in NC
There’s a 50 caliber solution to this cattle problem.
Then convict the entire Bundy clan (klan?) and as felons they lose the right to bear arms.
Confiscate all their property and put it up for auction. The neighbors would surely be interested.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Zinsky: Aren’t McRibs a pork-like food product, not beef-like?
You have a point that whatever is done to the critter makes the taste indistinguishable on the bun.
JPL
@LAO: Nate Silver’s blog is saying that Cruz is winning in all districts and it doesn’t appear to be changing. I hate Trump with a passion, but I also understand Cruz is worse.
LAO
@JPL: I believe Cruz is infinitely worse.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@LAO: A bit – thanks for asking.
These true believers I suspect literally believe that they can be acquitted. At least some of them, and consecutive mandatory minimums like 32 years just doesn’t register. Also, they do not seem to be the sharpest knives in the chopstick drawer.
LAO
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): we’ve all had clients that are incapable of walking themselves into a jail cell (at least I hope I’m not the only one because they are impossible to deal with). You know the ones I mean, doesn’t matter how much evidence there is – they need for a jury to make that decision for them. I think the Bundys are those type. The combination of the righteousness of their cause and their refusal to admit wrong doing ( and a free lawyer) means there will be trials.
Roger Moore
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
If there’s any deal, I hope it requires testimony against their co-conspirators.
Corner Stone
@Applejinx: Well, friend, I really have run to my limit on your schtick.
Adam L Silverman
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I’m your hookup. 250 for a Bundy update twist, 350 for a Bundy update 8 ball, and 500 for a Bundy update dime bag. I recommend you and LAO buy in bulk and start your own distributorships.
Adam L Silverman
@Dread: oh my!
Corner Stone
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Reminds me of the jury nullification attempt on Law & Order where the Patriots who robbed a bank (or something) have someone in the audience stand up at intervals and start quoting the bible…errr, the constitution.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: So that’s why you really went to the UK. It wasn’t academia at all!
muddy
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): It’s like watching youtube videos of Sovereign Citizen nitwits when they get pulled over. They are just positive that if they say certain magic words, the laws don’t apply to them.
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: What about the Tigers..
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: you caught me: I’ve been illegally muling haggis across the border…
Tripod
Uh…..
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: them too, but I’m worried about the top end of their pitching rotation as the season wears on.
raven
From “Dancing with Professors:
The Trouble with Academic Prose
Patricia Nelson Limerick” on the dead cow scene in Hud”
Adam L Silverman
@Tripod: that’s going to make the Sunday talk shows. It’s gotta be performance art, right?
LAO
@Tripod: optics! Does no one think of them anymore!
Edited: spelling is hard
Wrb
Some quite impressive understandiing of how western rangeland works, but on one issue some commenters have let their imaginations get away from them: it it unlikely that many of the cows are sick in any way that would reduce the value of the meat, and the meat is probably worth quite a bit more than $800,000. These are free-range grass-fed cows, largely raised organically, apparently. They are also of an exotic heritage breed that grows big. These are the sort of cows that can well exceed 2000 lbs, and which produce the steaks for which city dwellers pay $10 to $20 a pound. Just because a free- range animals haven’t received vet care doesn’t mean that they are disease-ridden. They live among elk and deer populations that do ok without the assistance of 21st century medicine.
Peale
@JPL: trump’s style isn’t going to play well in the flatlands.
raven
@Peale: Sheeet.
muddy
@Wrb: I believe prion disease is an issue with elk.
Matt McIrvin
@JPL: Cruz could never win the general election. Trump might.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Wrb: The difference between free range grass fed cattle raised on lush grass and those turned out to scrounge in the desert is enormous.
@muddy: And there’s that too.
Wrb
@muddy: yes, scrapie and other prion diseases are an issue, but their rank among the threats to humans is tiny, compared to threats like skateboarding getting shut in is refrigerator. There are only around 300 cases a year of American humans contracting prion diseases.
muddy
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Mmm, tastes like auroch.
Adam L Silverman
@Wrb: It has been reported, in the links I provided in the write up in the post proper, that BLM and other Interior officials, as well as others have reported seeing malnourished, diseased, and/or the dead carcasses of Bundy’s cattle in and around Golden Butte.
Wrb
@Adam L Silverman: yes, so they arent getting getting supplimental feed during the times of year when grass is scarce, sounds like. This has actually been a wide-spread problem during the drought. Some folks can’t afford the feed, others are determined to retain the the price premium they get for being able to certify that their beef is only grass fed, and organic, even if it means starving some cows. The fact that there are some dead and malnourished cows during an epic drought does not, in itself, mean that there is anything wrong with the meat of the rest. Nor does it mean that in return for starving a few cows that the rancher wount be paid a premium by purists and foodies for the remainder.
Bill_D
@muddy: No elk in that area, but deer are likely present at least in small numbers. This is not the Rocky Mountains.
Adam L Silverman
@Wrb: I get all of that. And I appreciate the context. But we really do not know the condition of the herd and won’t until they’re all rounded up and checked out. They may be fine, or a majority of them fine, but they may not be. I can only remark on, in posts and comments, what’s being reported in reputable sources.
Wrb
@Adam L Silverman: True. I should clarify that I’m not trying to defend Bundy. I haveno idea whether the poor condition of some members of his herd is due to either of the common reasons that I pointed out: not enough money left after years of fighting the drought or an ideological or financial resistance to supplimenting. I was making a more wonky argument: people are getting carried away w declaring that they know this herd worth little. There are sound reasons to suspect that it could be worth quite a bit. No insult meant. Your coverage has been the best I’ve seen.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Wrb: You do understand that the Bundy cows live in the desert, where even Bundy’s melon farming operation requires substantial irrigation. I doubt his cattle were ever especially well nourished because it’s not good cattle raising country even without a drought.he certainly wasn’t trying to certify organic or grass fed, and I suspect he sold most of his sale beef under the table to avoid those unconstitutional USDA regs.
@Wrb: Likewise, I’m not trying to insult you either, but as a Bundy junkie I’ve paid closer attention than many to his herd issues.I’m also somewhat of an environmental nerd.
Adam L Silverman
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): All of his beef is sold out of a refrigerator on his property to anyone who will come there to buy it. It doesn’t go to stores or restaurants. He’s got no distribution system. When he needs meat, either for his family or to sell, he has a few head rounded up, slaughtered, butchered, and then he and his family either use them or he sells them, essentially, off of his porch.
Adam L Silverman
@Wrb: No worries on this end. I knew you were just trying to clarify what is a happening.
Steve in the ATL
@efgoldman:
Oh man you are going to get it when schrodinger’s cat reads this….
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Steve in the ATL: I wondered if you were going to stop in for a fix.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: I understood what you wrote, but since they hadn’t rounded them up, I figured I’d provide a detailed post on what is actually going on. Not because you wouldn’t have been happy with a simple: they haven’t rounded them up yet, but because as soon as I wrote that and hit post or publish, someone would want to know what is going on with them. You’re a low maintenance commenter. The Bundy junkies, however…
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: Not to mention that they’re Indian cows… It could get ugly. How are you in using a katar or kirpan or chakram?
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): The fee schedule is in comment #144.
piratedan
@Mary G: well… it IS kansas, Gov Brownback lit the fucking state on fire and they re-elected him anyway, not sure what that says about ALL of Kansas, but that strikes me as a healthy proportion of willfully stupid people there that would rather set themselves afire than face reality, that makes Cruz the perfect candidate for them.
Calouste
@Bleeble Blabble: Well, a lot of his acquaintances, now cell mates, seem to smoke a lot of pot and have a number of minor convictions…. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was growing something else besides melons.
SiubhanDuinne
@Tripod:
Yikes. The ominous parallels are getting a little too coincidental now.
SiubhanDuinne
@Wrb:
If you believe Charles P. Pierce, all 300 are Republicans.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
Or Hillary Rettig.
Wrb
@SiubhanDuinne: I always believe Mr Pierce.
So what is the harm in promoting prion disease?
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman:
I mostly just use curry powder
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman:
I started to read the indictments but was afraid I would overdose
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne: You are en fuego tonight!
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: I don’t have the heart to tell her my grandfather was in the cattle business and then the meat packing business.
Applejinx
@Corner Stone: You’re quite free to do so, and in no way am I suggesting you have to stop. Nor do I think you’re implying that _I_ have to like it, so we’re all on the same page in a sense.
Tally ho and all that. Try not to blow a blood vessel. (anyone carrying on like that because they’re fighting for Hillary to defend the value of their 401K and nice house and stock investments: please do blow a blood vessel :) )
Corner Stone
@Applejinx: Notice I said nary a word about Hillary. Just that your completely unmoored from reality BS has hit where I have stopped giving you the benny.
This website, specifically, mentioned Tulsi G over and over and over again, and the specifics of who she was, what she did and etc. There were reams of speculation as to why she did what she did, and why she did it when she did.
So stop fucking lying and then adding a fucking smiley face emoji like you are being cutesy.
chopper
@ThresherK (GPad):
think “smaller”. think “more legs”.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I see what you did there.
Mixing the Bundys with cows. There is though a good chance that the cows are smarter than the Bundy clan.
low-tech cyclist
Are Bundy’s cattle on Bundy’s actual property, or are they on the BLM lands that he’s not been paying to use?
Can’t the government just place a lien on both Bundy’s cattle and Bundy’s real property due to nonpayment of back grazing fees, and foreclose on the lien if Bundy continues to fail to pay?
If that happened, the cattle and the property would belong to the US government, which would then be within its rights to shoot the cattle and let the vultures deal with them.
And even if it could only claim the cattle by that means, the government could still shoot the cattle that were on BLM land, which would probably be most of them.
At any rate, if there are still violent resisters on Bundy land, it’s time to send in the military to clear them out. In addition to being terrorists, they are effectively claiming that the Federal government has no jurisdiction over them, and the difference between that and secession is pretty trivial, IMHO.
And no, you don’t get to secede. Or if you do, we get to declare you to be an enemy nation, and come in with guns blazing and conquer you. The End.
elftx
Harpers Magazine did an article by Christopher Ketcham titled ” The Great Republican Land Heist” February of last year.
The tell for me is the following:
” One of ALEC’s model bills is the Eminent Domain Authority for Federal Lands Act, which, like Bundy, cites Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the Constitution to justify state seizure of federal land. ”
I loathe these people
also too, glad you found my post on the interview Adam, Thanks!!
Miss Bianca
@raven:
Heh heh heh. Patricia Nelson Limerick is great. She’s just been appointed state historian of CO.
jenn
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): There are definitely plenty of cattle in poor condition there, and I’m sure that there are some that have diseases, which would create issues from a slaughterhouse/distribution standpoint, but probably isn’t a huge deal in and of itself (it’s unlikely to be much different than hunting deer, for example). Basically, from a commercial distribution standpoint, I can see that it could be an issue, but I think the image of diseased hordes of cattle roaming around is incorrect.
And not specifically aimed at you, but the safety issue seems a little bit overblown to me, though I can understand people being nervous. However, I’ve spent plenty of time hiking (or “swimming” through tamarisk, as the case may be) along the Virgin River where Bundy’s cattle are trespassing, where I’ve been amongst members of the herd – mostly they’re in scattered small groups along the river. Don’t get in between a cow and her calf, and don’t be an idiot, and you’ll be fine.
One of the many good things about getting the cattle out of there will be that non-tamarisk woody riparian vegetation can get established (currently young willows are among the only real palatable foods out there for cattle to eat), which will be fantastic, since the primary vegetation out there right now is the invasive tamarisk – and since the unauthorized release of the tam beetle has resulted in spring/summer defoliation of tamarisk, it’s led to habitat problems, because there’s now neither tamarisk foliage nor native vegetation.
Tom
@Mike J: So if she’s going to an abortion clinic and someone tries to stop her, she can shoot him? Works for me.
Miss Bianca
So, looks like I’ll be going as a delegate to the state Democratic convention next month. And I will be lobbying good and hard for the plank I sponsored to our county platform to go into the state platform:
Resolved, that the Democratic Party believes that federal public land belongs to the public, and must remain under federal control, and that we will oppose any attempt to privatize it or revert it to state control.
It passed by unanimous acclaim, by the way.
Fight the power.
ETA: Oh, and I would love to see all those damned cows get shot, and the meat trucked to our local wolf preservation reserve. I would volunteer for that job.
jenn
@low-tech cyclist: Many of Bundy’s cattle are on BLM lands, as well as National Park lands and state lands. Presumably he has some on private property as well.
Among the problems with a simple “just shoot them” plan is that a hefty proportion of them are congregating along a river, where one would be dealing with thickets, and then unless you would be hauling those carcasses out of there (which would not be feasible), you would be leaving a mass of rotting carcasses to pollute the Virgin River, which flows into the Colorado River, from which California, Arizona, and Nevada are pulling their drinking water. So you would have to do some rounding up anyway to get them out of there.
Adam L Silverman
@low-tech cyclist: They’re on Federal lands. Mostly on/near Golden Butte.
Adam L Silverman
@elftx: They ignore the other parts that specifically delineate the Federal government’s role in owning and managing public lands. Its like people that are biblical literalists: none of them keep kosher, among other things.
And thank you again for the heads up on the interview.
Adam L Silverman
@Tom: I’ve honestly been waiting for a stand your ground case to occur in Florida with these parameters. Not that I want to see anyone get killed, nor anyone have to kill someone else, but I would imagine that the vast majority of the Stand Your Ground proponents would have a major freakout if it was invoked by someone trying to get into a women’s health clinic – whether she was there to get an abortion or not – or an employee of one that was being harassed and threatened.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Don’t forget the plank about rescuing the castaways on that island! They need someone to look out for them too!
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman:
LOL!! Oh, you bad, BAD man! Way to take the puff out of my self-preening! ; )
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Couldn’t help it. It was sitting belt high over the fat part of the plate. I had to swing at it.
As for being a state delegate: congratulations!
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: @Tom:
And I have to confess, I have had some sick fantasies about women arming themselves at abortion clinics…both patients and open-carrying escorts. It comes from years of trying to be reasonable dealing with the crazies while volunteering and working at family planning clinics.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman:
Thank you. So, in addition to hiring yourself out as an expert witness, how about hiring yourself out to trail round all BJ’s would-be politicos muttering the 21st-century equivalent of “Remember, thou art but mortal”? That and a kid to hit rim-shots on all the jokes and we should be all set.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: I am honestly amazed there haven’t been more confrontations. I know that Dr. Tiller had a carry permit and he had publicly indicated that he did carry a firearm for personal protection. But if I was escorting a friend or a loved one to a clinic, and someone started screaming and yelling in a threatening manner, I would do everything lawful to protect the person I was with and myself.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: I actually joked with my Commanding General once that that was part of my job as his cultural advisor. He had a great sense of humor, gave me a wink and a chuckle and said to carry on.
Should you all have any questions pertaining to security issues, counter-terrorism stuff, what most states (like the Federal government) have been calling homeland security or protection for your state platform, feel free to ping me. I’m happy to assist if I can.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@jenn: My concern was the slaughterhouse and neighboring hers issues. I agree that the safety hair on fire scenarios are overblown. Which is not to say that they don’t exist.
And because so many people everywhere don’t know of the need to get the riparian vegetation reestablished for the good of the land. The cattle foraging there are a real problem, which is the whole purpose of limited area grazing leases.
@low-tech cyclist: The government was in the process of seizing the cattle subject to the lien when the BLM was surrounded by heavily armed loons. The problem with an exchange of gunfire is two fold:
the immediate casualties, which in the case of the 2014 standoff would have included noncombatants – women and kids – used as shields by the brave patriots enforcing their g*d given Constitutional rights, and
the aftermath of retaliatory violence in protest, as in the April 19 McMurray attack.
Which even glosses over the publicity that will mark such an exercise as a Waco/Ruby Ridge overreaction. The secessionists have the upper hand short term. Sucks, but it’s true.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman:
I may take you up on that at some point, thank you – because I have a feeling I’m going to end up writing something about these issues sooner or later, either for the party or for publication.
It is an adrenaline-rushing thing, being on the front lines in an active protest situation at a clinic – in sober earnest, it’s probably a damned good thing that more people *aren’t* armed in that situation.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: In reverse order: most likely, though here in Florida I just assumed everyone is 1) armed and 2) nuts – makes things easier that way.
As for assistance, just let me know. I even ran an inservice and did a keynote at Disney University on security and counter-terrorism back in 2004. I’m a Mickey Mouse Professor!
Miss Bianca
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Now I’m also having fantasies of mounted round-ups of these feral cattle with boarhounds…some of my fox-hunting colleagues who also hunt boar have the hounds, the horses, and the equipment, and they are used to hard brush riding. Sigh…I am just a sick person.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman:
I am nobly, nobly refraining from making the sort of joke that that assertion deserves. Behold my self-restraint.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: I’ve used it in self deprecating manner before, so no worries.
Betsy
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): How about April 15?
jenn
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Yep, I figured!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Miss Bianca: In my part of the country, fox hunting tends to be a lovely trail ride through woods or fields with the hounds, who often get a scent, but never get the fox. Though they’ll usually find the hidey hole.
Boar hounds could probably round up those cattle, but I doubt the whips would enjoy being shot at. I confess I enjoy your fantasy.
@Betsy: Much better than the 19th, and fitting. Though in fairness to the government, April is really a short timeline for this kind of case.
Miss Bianca
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Yeah, we chase coyotes and hares, mostly. Chase, not catch.
You would need some rock-steady whippers-in and horses, for sure (I would not be in the front field on that hunt, I assure you!)
psychobroad
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: They absolutely should NOT be offered a plea deal, they have soundly demonstrated that they don’t believe in the law and therefore won’t obey any conditions accompanying a plea deal.
psychobroad
@Woodrowfan: Mustang Bobby beat you to it. Must say I agree with you both!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@psychobroad: For the Bunkerville militia, a best case plea deal would only reduce the sentence to the mandatory minimum to 32 years. I can’t see any of them agreeing to a plea agreement because they are true. believers. And taking a case to trial will cost them no more than a plea, since they have either appointed counsel or industry subsidized counsel. Sometimes the finances can sway folks to plead; not this bunch.
Omnes Omnibus
@psychobroad: T
Huh?
ETA: What Bella Q said.