Did you see the Trump products infomercial last night? After winning the MS and MI primaries, Trump called another mock-press conference at one of his tacky properties, which was again done up to look like a White House briefing room, complete with a phalanx of flags behind the podium.
But instead of talking about his plans for the country, Trump delivered a rambling, incoherent paean to his own wealth, business acumen and general awesomeness and bullied and abused journalists who asked him questions. It was a truly bizarre display.
Many observers have noted the event’s resemblance to a QVC segment because Trump aggressively touted his self-branded products throughout, even abandoning the podium at one point to go fetch a magazine to wave before the cameras and toss into the audience:
Trump attempted to portray each product as a going concern, but he appears to be lying or at best misleading people about some of them. As the staging crew was setting up the steak display, observers noticed that the steak packages were branded (ironically) “Bush Brothers.” The water company and magazine seem to be small vanity businesses that supply Trump’s own properties, not the public.
The winery is real enough; Trump drove a distressed property owner into foreclosure and picked up her award-winning vineyard for a fraction of its value. Then he gave it to one of his sons to run.
However, the products weren’t the real commodity being hawked. The whole surreal production was a long-form rebuttal to Mitt Romney’s recent denunciation of Trump as a fraud and failed businessman. Romney’s criticism clearly got under Trump’s paper-thin skin, prompting last night’s display of overweening self-regard.
During the Democratic debate the other night, Hillary Clinton said, “I think Donald Trump’s bigotry, his bullying, his bluster, are not going to wear well on the American people.” I think she’s right. Only the assembled lickspittles at the event and the very worst elements of the US population, i.e., the Republican Party base, could have found such a display attractive.
So Trump has telegraphed his weakness for all to see. He can’t leave any criticism of his own all-important self unanswered, and now we know that the response will be to hold a public exhibition on the ravages of narcissistic personality disorder. It’s shameful that such a character is on the verge of clinching the nomination of one of our two major parties, but here we are.
The world is more horrified than we are, they are simply incredulous. My data sample: BBC and Maharashtra Times (Marathi language newspaper in Mumbai)
donald dreck gives a new meaning to the term stream of consciousnes gibberish.
@schrodinger’s cat: It’s so embarrassing. Truly. I’ve been horrified and ashamed of U.S. actions many times, and certainly W was an embarrassment. But Trump, OMG. The walking embodiment of the Ugly American stereotype. Truly cringe-worthy.
Gin & Tonic
I commented last night, that I was away from this circus for a week and it was lovely. Then walking through the halls of Logan Airport on my way to passport control I looked up at one of the ubiquitous ceiling mounted TV’s (why do we need them everywhere, anyway?) and saw Il Donaldo’s visage and felt ill. Welcome to the US indeed.
@Betty Cracker: They lack faith in the intelligence of American voting populace because of W’s election and then reelection.
Amazing how Republicans have fallen so low that they could think that an inexperienced, crass blowhard like Trump is worthy of the Presidency. I don’t see how anyone watching his victory “speech” last night could be anything but embarrassed for his lack of self awareness. He has no filter and lacks the demeanor necessary to represent this country abroad.
I found it interesting how he treats the press. Total disrespect. Dying for the general election when the Democratic candidate can tear into him.
Bill E Pilgrim
Just inserting an OT RIP for George Mar’in, about whom a little known fact is that his well-known and obviously born and bred poshness was entirely his invention, a story he tells charmingly in this video.
Just for the record BTW everyone I know who uses the phrase says “have a butcher’s”, not adding the “hook” part, in keeping with the habit of making it as baffling as possible for outsiders (which was possibly the whole point ), leaving off the part that’s actually the ryhyme.
Did see that. If it were in a movie, you would find the scene too farfetched. Goes on a video loop as “narcissist central, in his element.”
Would be interesting to look at a transcript. Count the “I’s”, “me’s”, “amazing’s”, and the percentage of language devoted to other people’s (ie. voters’) concerns.
pseudonymous in nc
Thin-skinned, obsessed with the value of his name as a brand, and frankly not much of a businessman. There’s something vaguely amusing about how the GOP’s billionaire power brokers clearly see him as a piker.
A phony steak on every grill, a cubic zirconium on every finger.
I still wouldn’t buy a used car from him.
Trump suffers from Affluenza. He needs help. Very Sad.
At least he spared us the morsel of Trump meat no one wants to see.
Bill E Pilgrim
Re Trump this really does look like US capitalist model end times, in the “The capitalists will sell us the rope to hang them with” mode as predicted by the Soviets all those years ago. Just because they went first is sort of beside the point, that just means they could have modified it to “The capitalists will sell themselves the rope to hang themselves with”.
The very possibly next President up there hawking cheap self-branded crap is a spectacle far more wacky and amazing than anything Vonnegut even dreamed up, and that’s saying something.
@Patricia Kayden: Yeah, that was really weird, the way he ripped into those reporters. He always complains about the media — all Republicans do. But he got really personal with at least two of them that I heard. The way the event was staged, I couldn’t tell who they were or what they asked, but Trump’s contempt came through loud and clear.
The Beltway media seems to react to aggressive bullying by either sucking up or going into a defensive crouch. I guess it’s too much to hope for that they would stand up to the abuser and do their damn jobs.
Speaking of Trump’s sons, a quick Google search will bring up photos of them posing with the many animals they’ve killed, including a beautiful leopard.
I detest Trump and his entire family
This is why I am not TOO worried if he ends up the nominee. He will explode at some point and either Hillary or Bernie are going to use their skills as getting under his skin to cause it to happen.
He will try his best to do it to either of them. I think it is pretty clear it won’t work on Hillary. Bernie I am not as sure about, but I am positive he could handle it better than Trump.
The alarming thing is he will still get about 40-45% of the vote which won’t be totally reassuring to the rest of the world.
And it is interesting how he treats the press. The media has been pretty clearly anti-Clinton and only luke-warm to Bernie. But when it comes down to fluffing the feathers of Trump, Hillary or Bernie, I have a sense that Trump is their third choice
Yes, there is still a chance he won’t get the nomination, but if he does well next Tuesday, specially if he wins Florida, Ohio and Illinois, if he doesn’t get the nomination the GOP is toast. And if he does get the nomination, the GOP is toast.
So when is Trump changing his name to Camacho?
@Betty Cracker: A large part of the problem is that, for the last bunch of years, their jobs were done, and done well, by Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart. Their replacements are talented, but don’t have the reputations yet that brought the masses in to see those two skewer the people who needed skewering. Let’s hope that situation changes for the better, fast.
“Cringe-worthy”? Certainly, and I’d add “embarrassing” and “stomach-turning” as well. But the worst feeling I got from watching Trump’s nauseating display last night (for which, I noted, as usual, he was noticeably – and purposefully -late) was the blank-eyed adoration one could see on the faces of a lot of the crowd: sad as it may be (well, to me, and most of us here, I imagine) that a disgusting character like Donald Trump could be a serious candidate for President; even sadder is the seeming depth of his (seemingly genuine) support. Support from our fellow citizens, no less….
India elected Narendra freaking Modi. Bitching about the US election is like Pot calling Kettle a n****r.
(The writers of the article, not you)
I’ve only seen pictures of his staged event, but it bothers me that he probably had to toss all that meat.
It was the most bewildering, cringworthy display. It was beyond bizarre but of course his idiot supporters will continue to talk about how they like him.
I was watching CNN at the time, and except for Van Jones, who had an appropriate reaction, every other pundit shrugged it off. I am almost always critical of Van Jones but he spoke for all of us when he called it “a freakshow infomercial.” His anger was so palpable when he said: “That is inappropriate! It is inappropriate to run an election, to run a campaign, and have people… voting for their jobs, voting for their families… to be talking about Trump Steak.” I just hope he’s right and Trump’s brand of tackiness will wear out its welcome.
The only thing remaining is for Trump to start tossing loaves of bread into the crowd.
Didn’t something just like this happen on House of Cards?
Bill E Pilgrim
@Timurid: And then there was Berlusconi.
And Sarkozy was pretty ridiculous, who the French often expressed deep embarrassment about having ever elected.
Apologies for the lengthy excerpt.
From the opening chapter of William Dean Howells’ The Rise of Silas Lapham (1885)
I admit to having watched as little of Trump as possible but what little I’ve seen, what I’ve gathered from various reporting, is all his speeches are about his awesomeness, his winning, about him period. There’s little to nothing about plans and policies.
It’s sad for both government and the private sector. This is the best we can do for private sector business leaders? “Re-branding” consumer crap with a famous name that adds no value but just adds price? A lucky heir that has lived off his name since birth? It’s depressing. It’s decline and fall stuff.
@Timurid: Kevin Spacey commented awhile back, that he thought this season went to far, because of the KKK and all. Now he realizes that it didn’t go far enough.
Its horrifying that he’s been able to get even this close to the nomination. Every day brings something else to think WTF is happening in this country.
Also noticed, all cable news channels carried Trumps newsie conference. But only MSNBC carried Hillarys speech. CNN was still all a-swooning over T.
@Timurid: UK elected Cameron too. BTW I am no fan of Modi but I have to point out that Modi was the Chief Minister of a large Indian State for 2 terms. Trump has never held any elected office.
Modi is the Prime Minister (as is Cameron) so people don’t directly vote for him for MPs of his party do.
ETA: In India the chief opposition party, the Congress had completely collapsed since the inept scion took over.
@Elizabelle: I did a word cloud of the speeches he gave after Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada. There was not single word of substance. A friend found another web site that had a word count of all his speeches. “I” was so far in the lead it was laughable.
Bill E Pilgrim
@JPL:Spacey told a story about Bill Clinton who told him yeah it was pretty accurate, except “there’s no way you’d get an education bill passed that quickly”.
Having torn the Republican Party establishment a new one, he now turns to the media.
@Jay C: This is pretty much the same electorate that put Nixon, Reagan and W in the White House, having faith in them is pretty foolish. That display last night was a preview of a nightmare that too easily could happen.
Stuff like this makes me miss Richard Pryor, George Carlin and Bill Hicks. Man, they were born for material like Trump.
I think it would be good humor if someone goaded the toilet-paper-thin-skinned bankruptcy maven into whipping it out during one of the debates. “You know, I’m getting a little tired of your bullshit. Either put up or shut up, Needle Dick! C’mon, prove to America that you don’t TALK a bigger piece than you actually HAVE! You ‘guaranteed’ us? Prove it – prove that you have more than an inch and a half! Everything else you’ve told us about yourself – your business successes — has been shown to be bullshit. C’mon, what are you, chicken? (Followed by standard sound effect.)”
Hilarity would ensue.
Of course, the VSPs would tell us that his whipping it out showed grit and determination (although Nooners would faint).
@Waldo: Does anyone doubt that Trump would actually pull his dick out and show it to the cameras if it was really as impressive as he claims?
@Shell: CNN is Republican primary central. They have to catch themselves and cover the Democrats too, from time to time, in small measure.
Isn’t ANYTHING else going on in the world?
BBC News! Come colonize us! We’re a nation of the slackjawed uninformed (but titillated) if you look at our cable channels.
Caught a little bit of the snide Eric Cantor (now with Moelis & Company) on CNBC this morning (while surfing channels). He described Bernie Sanders as a “socialist!” who does not believe in free markets.
Cantor. Always up on current events. (1) Sanders is a “socialist!” still elected to serve his constituents. (2) Michigan voters rewarded him last night for seeing that “free” markets and free trade are pretty damn rigged.
@Geeno: That’s President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho to us mortals. And I would rather have President Camacho any day over President Trump. Camacho is much more of a stand up guy, and he has way better hair.
Hey! Socialist made it through FYWP!
Maybe another of Alain’s marvelous fixes. Thank you.
both black, which is an immediate strike against them when it comes to getting attention paid.
In a distinct minority, but have never comprehended the fussing over the size of the male organ as an indication of anything.
It’s an organ. It’s like judging someone by the size of his liver.
I know Trump would be a total disaster as President. He is quite capable of starting a war because someone hurt his precious feelings. He will work to cut United States citizens out of the country for the “sin” of being the wrong religion, or ethnicity. On top of all that, if he’s elected I will not be able to avoid seeing his face or hearing his voice for the next 4-8 years, well unless I cut the cord and only watch stuff I stream. The thought of having to see this guy makes me cringe.
Nothing against the current crop of political humorists but I wish Pryor, Carlin and Hicks at their peaks could have had material like Trump to work with.
That word was made non-FYWP nearly a couple of years ago. By mistermix, if memory serves.
I’m shifting away from my preference for Cruz over Trump in the general, which had been based on not knowing how effective Trump would be in drawing out pissed off, disenfranchised white voters in key swing states.
At this point, however, I’m hoping the Republicans can keep him on his feet long enough for the general election. He’s not going to be able to keep himself from letting his freak flag fly; the only question is whether the flag says “fascist” or “psychotic.” His frontal lobes must look like desiccated cauliflower.
@Eric S.: I wish more sites would put up word clouds after Trump’s speeches.
Maybe for all the candidates, but particularly for him.
Bill E Pilgrim
@NotMax: The punchline was that it was actually cialis that was triggering it, I seem to recall. Anti-ad spam setting, basically, rather than the word socialist. Socialized always got through, for example.
@Shell: Better Trump than Cruz, IMO. And that’s like saying I’d rather have cancer than HF poisoning. I understand all the freak out over a possible Trump presidency, but a Cruz (homosexuality would be made illegal) or Rubio (who would do absolutely everything ALEC and Koch asked) would be much, much worse.
The whole bed of GOP candidates is filled with people who would gladly destroy the country.
I don’t watch Trump events since my sense of living in a bizarre alternate universe is strong enough without such exposure.
But I can’t help but think that such actions only endear Trump to his basest of all bases.
This country had 4 years of George W. Bush and decided it wanted more. Democrats who assume Trump can’t win the general election are, in my opinion, kidding themselves. It’s going to be close and he may well win.
Spinoza is my Co-pilot
That’s President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.
In his second term. We’re not there yet.
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m with you, I’m taking a week off. Will check back in on the 15th to see just how badly everyone not named Trump or Cruz has crashed and burned.
@pseudonymous in nc:
I suspect the Kochs are envious at this point — which one of them tried to run as a libertarian and failed more miserably than Jeb did?
All the crazy billionaires are now thinking, Why not me?
@Shell: Oh I agree it is horrifying and says a lot about a portion of our population. But to me, the scarier thing is how many people, outside of his current support base, will willingly vote for him on the principle that, for some weird reason or other, Hillary or Bernie would be monumentally worse.
That more than anything else shows the abject depravation of the Republican Party.
Nonetheless, I do think he would be beaten by either of them.
Megyn Kelly was openly making fun of Trump last night. It’s upside-down world, where Fox is the straight news channel
Someone said “It’s not Trump I’m afraid of, it’s the guy who comes after Trump.”
Who on earth will they cough up in 2020? Or 2024?
FWIW, I don’ t think Trump will win the general election but that he is so closely to winning the Republican nomination is in of itself appalling.
The Dem candidate can’t push on the fake/failed Trump products. The reason the Romney thing stings is that Trump knows Romney is looking down on him as a lesser billionaire. Hillary and Bernie actually aren’t as rich as Trump. He’d just measure bank accounts.
The way to get Trump to do something catastrophically stupid is to work the needle dick angle. A whispering campaign would be enough. Start a rumor that the whole Megyn Kelly thing is because she wasn’t interested in a pin prick from The Donald. And this would go triple if Hillary is the nominee. Use his world class misogyny against him.
@schrodinger’s cat: To foreign eyes, steeped in multiparty parliamentary democracy and it looks like America is in the process of collapsing like a star with nothing left to fuse in its core. In fact, all we’re really seeing is a political party in the process of collapsing like a star with nothing left to fuse in its core.
The question, of course, is whether that star is massive enough to go on collapsing down to a black hole that sucks the rest of the country down into the singularity with it.
IIRC, Trump is a teatotaller, so wtf does he know about wine or vodka or whatever? I’m betting he picks Dennis Rodman as a running mate. It would complete the circle.
@Gator90:Lots and lots of demographic change since then. Twelve years is a lot of time for old people to die and kids to become grownups.
pseudonymous in nc
Well, they want power without accountability, which is why they buy governors and state legislatures to do the job for them. But El Trumpador is a challenge to them: he displays the external trappings of billionairedom — gaudy-ass shit, private jets, model wife — while showing he’s a highly-leveraged, fairly financially-vulnerable hawker. And yet he seems pretty close to visible power without much in the way of accountability, because his supporters lap up that shit.
(The actual kajillionaires were flying their jets into Sea Island, GA for the low-key AEI forum last weekend.)
people have been predicting Trump’s inevitable downfall since early last summer. the reasons are always simple and obvious and rely on people recognizing his simple and obvious faults.
maybe it’s time to start assuming the people who should be recognizing these simple and obvious things are never going to do that.
Also, too, Trump already has a major gender gap in his supporters — even white women don’t like him. I have a feeling he’s not winning any additional female fans with the threats of literal dick-wagging. We women already know that the guys who are most eager to show you what they’ve got at the drop of a, er, hat usually have the least to show anyway.
More proof that this was done as a self promtion grift because he never expected to be in a position to win the thing anyways….just like Carson. Now that he is he doesn’t know what to do because I truly believe he doesn’t really want to job other than for the boost it gives his paper thin ego.
My guess is that he figures he would just outsource the job if he wins. Letting the VP do most of it or whatever. Or he is just looking for ways to get out now without looking like a quitter.
My assumption has been not that Trump’s fans will abandon him, but that he’ll rage-quit on his own at some point. I doubt there’s anything he could do at this point that would cause his fans to abandon him.
Gin & Tonic
Since this is an open thread, there’s been an ongoing circus of a criminal trial in Russia of a Ukrainian military pilot named Nadiya Savchenko. It’s possible some of you may have heard of it. She is facing a possible 20-year sentence. Today, in court, wearing a t-shirt with the Ukrainian national symbol on it, she climbed up onto the bench and made a widely-recognizable hand gesture of contempt for the court and her captors (she has, incidentally, been on a complete hunger strike — no food or water — since last Friday.) Many international organizations, along with the US administration, are calling for her release.
It’s interesting to contrast her very vocal and very public defiance with the whining coming from the Bundy crowd. This woman has got more courage in her little finger than all of those wannabees together.
Can’t say the most recent “outsource to the VP” program worked out all that well.
I still think this switch to infomercial from reality show had a bit more to do with John Oliver than Dull Mittens. And i’m certainly anticipating what might be made of the visuals by the originators of Drumpf caps etc..
GOP VP pick is an interesting question. I wonder who gets final say. If the GOP establishment can choose I expect they’ll sacrifice someone loyal to the party who will try to keep the damage Trump causes to a minimum. I don’t envy anyone that job.
If Trump can choose he’ll pick a yes-man lackey.
Hillary Clinton said, “I think Donald Trump’s bigotry, his bullying, his bluster, are not going to wear well on the American people.”
Buh…but MarkyMux and wrong way Cole both said that we should not underestimate the Drumpf. That we should fear him. That he is going to pivot to the left and the mindless masses will follow…or whatever.
So obviously Hillary has it all wrong.
good read betty
I think Trump would pick a loony right ex military type of the Curtis LeMay stripe.
For some years now I’ve been scrapping away in the private sector and considering it quite a victory, since before that I was homeless and then on Disability. There’s a lot of people mighty impressed I ever made it off Disability and became self-supporting, even with Section 8 housing subsidies helping.
As such I pay really close attention to what private sector business is doing, perhaps more than anybody who works a normal job for an employer. I have to wear the ‘business leader’ hat, poorly and absurdly, but it literally becomes my job to pay attention to how the world works in this light.
And yes this is the best we can do for private sector business leaders. This is how it’s done in a top-down, free-market (or ‘lawless market’ if you prefer), investment-driven system such as we’ve proudly built. It’s not an accident or mistake.
“Trump Steaks For President” is what we get and it is what we are. It’s not only the best we can do, it drives out other ways of doing business. I could rant for an hour and not cover everything I’ve observed, and I won’t do that (no matter how fast I can type ;) )
This is the system and this is why I’m so damn unseemly-frantic to elect Bernie. This is us. And I’m worried and kinda paranoid of anybody who isn’t just as ashamed and humiliated about it, as me.
We built this. When people like me rant about why that is, maybe listen? I understand it’s hard to take and we don’t have all our ducks in a row, but it’s important.
@Bill E Pilgrim:
George Martin, Fifth Beatle, perfect gentleman and astounding ear, RIP.
Time to go after Trump’s bankruptcies.
There’s one in particular, right here in
River CityTampa Bay, where he chickened out of a downtown tower condo, and it ruined the area for years.
Between Trump and Cruz, the true nature of the majority of the GOP base is becoming nakedly exposed, and it’s clearly not the ideologically conservative, economic glibertarian (top 1% friendly) concept the establishment and National Review types thought was dominant. Instead, the majority of the GOP base is dominated by deep populist economic and social anxiety, flavored with a strong current of fearful xenophobia, and their attachment to conservative glibertarian economic ideology is only about six inches deep – driven by resentment over undeserving “others” being favored over themselves. That’s a perspective that welcomes populist rather than ideological appeals. There’s also the evangelical part of the base that’s driven by resentment over cultural changes they believe undermines the dominance of conservative Christian morality and theology, that drives them to homeschool their kids or send them to Christian academies – but they are awakening to the fact that they’ve been played for chumps by the establishment. There is some weak connection to economic glibertarianism with the “prosperity gospel” strain of evangelicals – but even there, deep populist economic and social anxiety, and not ideological economic libertarianism, is overdominant.
In short, the majority of the GOP conservative base is awakening to the fact that they have been played for gullible fools by the big-money establishment, and their true nature is that of populism and economic resentment which the establishment can no longer redirect and contain in a downward direction, but instead is boiling upward, now that the rubes are onto some of the scams the establishment has used to redirect their resentments. That’s precisely why Trump and Sanders have overlapping appeals to voters, and many GOP base voters who wouldn’t vote for Sanders nevertheless are acquiring a grudging admiration for him, because he’s a straight shooter who isn’t lying to them, and they agree with much of his premise of what’s economically wrong with America, even while not agreeing with his solutions.
George Walker Bush was like a 13-year-old boy with no filter. Donald Trump, on the other hand, goes out of his way to be a crass, vulgar mofo.
From what I’ve seen, the only Americans who like Trump’s bigotry, bullying, and bluster are those who wish they had his freedom to be like that.
Just finished listening to BBC and they did a really nice, long feature tribute to him.
It also allows us the perfect visual for the next in sadness comment about Pesident Obama demeanong the office of the presidency by inappripriate shirtsleeves. Billy Carter’s done rather better in his own right this go-round.
@NotMax: Sidebar – paint from that era worked great. It covered beautifully and protected surfaces better and lasted longer and actually strengthened the surfaces and materials it came into contact with. The oil made it much harder to work with and to clean up, but it was a beautiful, smooth, lustrous coating. But the main reason it worked so well: lead. All that wonderful, beautiful product made every room in every house a Flint drink of water. Combine that with the years of breathing the fumes of leaded gasoline, and you have the roots of the modern conservative movement.
@Ex Libris: Like the old alkyd paint I used on my 66 chevy!
Yep, that pretty much describes the GOP perfectly.
If the US, at the present time, collapses in on itself, it won’t shrink into a white dwarf. It will become a supernova and destroy much of the world.
Trump, of course, would be nihilist and Cruz would be even more so. Either of them would try to take the world out in a fit of white hot rage.
@Germy: You act like there’s going to be elections. My guess is in 2024 it will be whatever General has been ruling the junta for the past six years.
A word to Hillary supporters:
Thank you for allowing us to indulge in our happy dance last night. That was very gracious.
The truth is that we know we’re fighting an uphill battle but we came to play the game to the very end. Are you in?
Paul in KY
@NotMax: That would make a good, snarky ad against him. ‘In Donald Trump’s America, you’ll have…’
@Linda Featheringill: whatever
Last time we did that we had a President Cheney. I don’t have to point this out but will anyway. Things did not work out well.
@Applejinx: I’m not entirely sure how electing Bernie Sanders president solves the contradictions of late capitalism, but you keep on doing you, AJ.
Or, as my Facebook feed had it: “Are you watching the hunger games tonight? I hope my district wins!”
@cleek: In retrospect, it should have been obvious that the Republican base wasn’t going to be appalled by Trump’s buffoonery. He’s pretty much Cleek’s Law in human form, so of course they’ll eat that shit up with a spoon. Will the country at large? Possibly, but I still have more faith in us than that. If Trump is the nominee, he’ll get tens of millions of votes and it will be a lot closer an election than it should be, but I think we’re still capable of shame, yes, even after GWB, so I don’t think Trump will be president.
On the other side of the train tracks, the GOP business and “intellectual” elites are suddenly awakening to the fact that the majority of their voter base was never in it for the economic libertarianism. This comes as an enormous shock to them, hence the hair-on-fire freakout in their response to Trump. For one thing, they’ve been saying “but we’re not the racist party!” for so long that on some level they probably believed it. For another, even if they accepted that all those Nixon/Reagan Democrats switched because of civil rights originally, that was fifty years ago, and at this point they thought they’d been socialized into the Republican Party for long enough to have accepted all of its other beliefs.
Instead, they’re discovering that a tremendous amount of their voter base, first of all, really is as balls-to-the-wall racist as the liberals have been saying, and second, that racism wasn’t simply a gateway drug to the Republican Party for them – it was, literally, the only thing they ever cared about.
I’ll repeat what I said last night — having Bernie stay in strong for as long as possible puts him in a very good position to negotiate some policy and appointment concessions from Hillary even if he ultimately loses. In 2008, Hillary became Secretary of State (along with a few other concessions) in exchange for her wholehearted support of Obama in the general election.
So I think it’s great that Bernie won a major state like Michigan and I hope he wins at least a few more states so he can use his negotiating power to keep Hillary running to the left in the general election.
@Chris: Yep. Because even the quintessential Republican complaint that taxes are too high tends to carry with it the corollary “because they waste it on welfare.” Maybe “and other wussy do-gooder crap too,” like spotted owls, but that runs a distant second to welfare a/k/a Those People.
@Gin & Tonic: Re: the ubiquitous televisions. The dental clinic I use in Charleston installed one several months ago for no reason I could tell. They always send a follow-up patient satisfaction survey and I was quite clear the addition of the TV in the waiting room was in fact, not satisfactory. They still have it, but they at least turned the volume down.
I could see the point of them at one time, but with just about every traveler having a device these days, that ship has sailed.
Incidentally, Betty, I didn’t see anyone else say it, so I will:
That Is One Terrific Thread Title, That Is!!!
Couldn’t have said it better. Cosign with enthusiasm.
Modi was a successful Chief Minister of a prominent state, Gujarat, in India for several years. He has been a member of what has become one of the two main national parties in India for many years.
He ran on his reputation of reform and economic development in Gujarat.
Comparing him to someone like Trump is an insult.
honestly, the longer the process takes on our end, the more likely the GOP is to keep falling apart. the sooner we come together around a nominee the sooner the GOP convinces itself to get in line. as long as our process doesn’t get so contentious that it harms clinton in the general (and that would have to be far and away worse than this), we get to help stretch out the GOP’s suicide attempt.
O. Felix Culpa
@Applejinx: Friend, your passion is admirable and many of us not only agree with you about the deep flaws of capitalism, but also share painful personal experience with it. I wonder if the “ranting,” as you describe it, is where you begin to lose folks who might otherwise be your natural allies, owing to sometimes extreme and/or counter-factual statements that go beyond hyperbole as a rhetorical device.
That said, I wish you well in selling your new game. I’m hoping (and voting) for a Clinton candidacy, but appreciate that Sanders has highlighted important issues that might otherwise have been glossed over.
@cmorenc: “Instead, the majority of the GOP base is dominated by deep populist economic and social anxiety, flavored with a strong current of fearful xenophobia, and their attachment to conservative glibertarian economic ideology is only about six inches deep – driven by resentment over undeserving “others” being favored over themselves.”
True. Trump’s supporters are delusional, angry White Supremacists who will probably be hurt more than middle/upper class Black/Brown folks by Trump’s “policies”.
@Betty Cracker: I could have sworn that Trump even called out Chuck Todd. I was in such shock at the way he was conducting his victory “speech” that I wasn’t sure if that was what I had heard. Also, Chuck Todd didn’t say anything about being called out by Trump right after the speech when the feed went back to MSNBC.
(sigh) It’s going to be a lonmg 8 months
Some random thoughts
1. I still think that as a ‘socialist’ Bernie can’t win the general. The GOP will make him look like Stalin’s son. In addition how will the Clinton folks respond? They backed Obama in 2008 but to get pushed aside a second time might be a bridge to far. The same goes for the democratic establishment. Bernie has been running against that as well as against the HRC campaign. The democratic establishment owns Bernie nothing and might not want to walk the plank for him in a close election.
2. And then there is HRC and her ‘elect-ability’. If she can’t nail down Michigan then where can she succeed in the important rust belt states. It’s great that she rolls up huge vote totals in the south but those states (VA/FL and NC excepted) will deliver 0 electoral votes in the general. If she limps into the general against a united GOP (and they will unite even if the candidate is Satan himself) then she is a dead duck.
3. and finally the seasons of Trump.
a. last summer he was the comic relief and would be toast by the time the leaves turned.
b. last fall he was leading in the polls but would fade by the time to snow flies
c. this winter he is the front runner but really has no chance at the nomination and will implode by the time spring training starts
d. well spring training has started and OMG he has a very good chance of becoming the next president
What accounts for Trump and to a lesser extent Bernie. Thomas Franks (whats wrong with Kansas fame) has a long article on the Guardian about the year of Trump. While he agrees that racism is part of it he thinks the more fundamental issue is trade. Of in a slightly expanded form all of the job losses due to NAFTA and other free trade agreements that are affecting the working class. I think he is on to something. The problem is it is a much bigger problem than just NAFTA and the TPP free trade agreements. The rust belt was pretty rusty by the time NAFTA was passed. Even if you could recreate all of those factories there still would be the issue of technology making many jobs obsolete. It might have taken 10 people to make a ton of steel in 1970 but today it might take 3 as an example. That still leaves us 7 jobs short and that doesn’t even account for population growth.
Trump doesn’t have any answers he just channels the anger and creates scapegoats. I suspect that if the economic pie was growing for the working class they would be a lot less upset by illegal immigration. Heck they might even hire one of the illegals to do their yard work.
I don’t see where any of the candidates have an answer. I’m not sure there is an answer. at least not one in the short term
As I say it’s goin g to be a long 8 months
i think he’s going to win.
he seems impervious to pretty much everything all of his opponents have tried. even as he’s fighting his own party, top to bottom. once the GOP establishment comes around and embraces him (as they will), he’ll have them and their money at his back as well as the compliant and starstruck media eager to give him all the adoring free airtime he wants.
the lo-info, hi-emo crowd will join the GOP rank and file and that’s that.
I’d say Manmohan Singh demonstrating the Peter Principle helped. Great Finance Minister, well respected, very smart and very hardworking but was not cut out to be PM.
The backlash of putting Italian born Sonia Gandhi in as PM led to Mr. Singh as a compromise candidate for PM, though Sonia still held the party reins, limiting what Mr. Singh could do to keep MP’s in line.
Led to a very lackluster term for Mr. Singh and the backlash, throw the bums out, wave that resulted in the BJP’s election and Modi’s becoming PM.
@Betty Cracker: The trouble is that, for a sizeable portion of the US electorate, shame if it persists has been twisted into the feelings generated by allowing Those People (be they Blah, Brown, female or queer) to parade around Ahmurrrrca as if they were the equal of that segment of the population, and those caused by the inability to prevent things like divorce, interracial relations, same-sex marriage, family planning and the other things their authorities tell them are an Affront to Good Xtian Real Ahmurrrrcan Patriots™. The conventional shame-generating conditions – obscene wealth, self-centredness, abuse of the less fortunate, conspicuous consumption, wilful ignorance, &c – are all now Blessed by the Dominionist, Prosperity Gospel, Taxed Enough Already philosophy hammered into their skulls. Trump is indeed the ideal GOTea candidate for 2016: he’s blatantly wealthy (or at least superficially spendthrift), he’s convinced that his “success” in business makes him a better person (which will translate to far to many as being among the Godly Xtian Elect), and he’s taking abbsolutely no shyte from the people who complain about his crassness, ignorance, prejudice or shallowness. He’s exactly the kind of person the 27% revere, and exactly the kind they want as a leader: the only thing missing is ten hours of ostentatious public prayer weekly and grants for some monstrous religulous edifice (although in the Church of Mammon, his casino[s?] would probably do).
FYWP. In moderation for mentioning the c4rd/sl0t/d!ce venue. With tRump in the race, and those places figuring so prominently in his narrative, is there any chance that filter can be disabled temporarily?
For everyone saying that Trump will fail because of his various facets of awefulness, I suggest this:
Trump is horrible on about every level, but honestly, if his cesspool of personality traits and business failures were going to be enough to sink him, he’d have been gone back when were were still on daylight savings time. Once he wins the Republican nomination, any stupid anything could put him over the top in the general.
Bob In Portland
Has the ShamWow guy endorsed any candidate yet?
@FlipYrWhig: I think it would help.
Any system’s made up of rules and arrangements, no matter what ‘ism’ you call it.
This IS what ‘late-stage capitalism’ (inoperable? heaven forbid) looks like. If it looks ugly to you too, then we agree.
I trust Bernie because he seems appalled by the same things I find appalling, and when he speaks of positive things like civic duty and people going to school for free as part of society itself, I feel these things would help. I’m not looking for a magic wand to work forever, I’m looking for ‘better and not worse’ and often see political options (like TRUMP) that are utterly, horribly worse.
Where Hillary stands, though interesting, isn’t relevant to this.
I think Bernie Sanders will try things that are not worse, such as putting people to work rebuilding infrastructure, such as making Election Day a holiday everyone gets off so they can do their civic duty as they must.
Some of these things, shall we say, clash with the Trump Future Of American Capitalism.
Good. And so they should. And so I am trying to elect Bernie President. Clash we shall.
“When fascism comes to America, it’s going to be
wrapped in the flagbragging about gold-plated co-op lobbies and carrying a crosshawking plastic-wrapped steaks on CNN.” During primetime.
We passed tragedy and went straight to farce.
@Betty Cracker: The GOTea is convinced that “The Media” – especially the Liebrul Media – is out to get them collectively. Trump seems convinced that Certain People in The Media are gunning for him personally.
@cleek: Perhaps we can shame Trump’s possible voters.
I don’t like the defeatism I’m seeing on BJ. I think we can turn our voters out.
It’s like living through a dystopian movie, though.
This would not be possible if we did not have 24/7 cable and a cowed mainstream press.
Martin’s autobiography, “All You Need is Ears”, is fascinating not only for the Beatles info, but for insight into what made him such a brilliant engineer and producer. Very tech-geeky, but enough anecdotes to keep you going even if you get a little lost.
@D58826: You know that expression about how if all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail? That applies to Thomas Frank. The answer is always “economic populism,” so he’s invariably going to find a way to read the climate du jour as ripe for… economic populism. Do Trump supporters think the culprit is corporations or some unholy alliance between job-stealing Mexicans and the wily Chinese?
@Applejinx: Obama believes in all of those things too and talks about them eloquently. “I am my brother’s keeper,” civic virtues, citizenship as an ethos. And yet we’re living through the opposite of that. Frankly I don’t hear those notes in Sanders, who’s IMHO more about retaliation against the malefactors. He’s a fighter, not a lover. That’s what most of his fans like about him, no?
@Applejinx: I agree that late-stage capitalism or as some call it vulture capitalism is a disaster. I’m just not sure it is the inevitable outcome. A more stakeholder form of capitalism seemed to work pretty well for most of us in the 1950-1970’s.
I would like to point out something that supporters of Bernie keep repeating but I don’t think is very realistic. You said
Guess what, Bernie can not just order the rebuilding or the nations infrastructure or make election day a holiday (maybe for federal workers). He will need congress to pass the required legislation. Even with a senate majority that is not going to happen. I hasn’t seen any realistic plan on how he gets anything done (HRC isn’t going to have any better luck). It took 50 years, a lot of strikes and a great depression before the Wagner act was passed in 1935. Bernie is going to have to either build a political infrastructure himself or co-op the existing democratic one.
I find this guy revelatory, though he looks like the most appalling hippie. He’s very rich, if that helps.
He doesn’t have the answer (he wants internet microtransactions, go Jaron) but points out this:
So it seems to me you’re off by more than two orders of magnitude. It’s not ’10 people to make a ton of steel and now it takes 3′. It’s ‘old company employs about 5000 people per billion of value, new company employs 13 or even less’.
That’s about 384 times the wealth concentration per person of a monster industry-dominating company (as in, little startups can’t reasonably step in and replace it). Which is also roughly the income disparity between the rich CEOs of today, and the regular working people such as used to work at places like Kodak (never mind General Motors or other Rust Belt places).
So what we’re seeing demographically in capitalism, is not so much ‘working people are down to 1/3 of what they had’ (in a world where business is booming and the overall pie is expanding).
It’s ‘working people are down to 1/300th of what they had, in a world where ‘business is booming and the pie is expanding’. I don’t care how well the Dow is doing, that is trouble waiting to happen… and not waiting, anymore, it’s here.
I watched the entire “press conference” last night. Luckily Mrs. Feebog has a cold (that I gave her) or she would have yelled me into deafness. This was not really a press conference, since a small group of core supporters were sitting up front and the reporters were relegated to the back. He did not talk about any thing of substance. He spent the first few minutes describing all his great properties and businesses. He tried to explain away the litigation over Trump University, but it rang hollow if you know anything about it. He only took a few questions. I wonder if he will even agree to debates with HRC. He should know that he will come off as a clueless jerk, but his ego is so large I’m sure he thinks he will blow HRC away by the sheer force of his amazing personality.
@cleek: Are you a betting man?
@Applejinx: The steel example was just meant as an example not the whole story. Yes the auto industry employs tens of thousands fewer people than they did in the 1970’s, same for steel, railroads, etc, The point is even without NAFTA and a sudden virtuous change of heart of the 1% there still will be major issues with the job market
Depends how badly they lose or by how much they win at down ticket races during this period.
If angry right-wingers get beat by Democrats, then you can see a change happening.
Otherwise someone angrier than Trump.
The Butcher of Gujarat? I don’t think this is the comparison you want to be making.
If you don’t understand why Trump is winning primaries you won’t understand that there’s a very decent chance he could win the whole thing.
He appeals to stupid people and people fucked over by the US economy for the last thirty years. That’s a potential pool of about 90% of the US population.
Our certain salvation? Most of those people have never voted and never will. They don’t even know how to register much less get to a polling place and cast a ballot.
I wish I agreed with you (and her), but there is a significant slice of the American electorate that is hearing exactly what they want to hear from Trump. You can hear some of them cheer for Trump’s trivial productc like he is announcing world disarmament.
HR ‘s problem is that her negatives are almost as bad as Trump’s. The difference is (or may be) that the intensity of hatred for her (irrational though it may be) is probably far greater than the disapproval people feel for the loud-mouthed buffoon.
Gin & Tonic
@Applejinx: Comparing Kodak to Instagram is idiotic. Lots of things that Kodak did are being done by other people at other companies — consumer photography was only a portion of their business. And I don’t get your point at all about “small start-ups can’t replace X”. That’s complete BS. 10 years ago Facebook was a niche product for students at Ivy League schools and MySpace was the wave of the future, with more site visits than Google.
Sidebar to the sidebar. Another domestic environmental threat in colonial and early American times was arsenic leaching from wallpaper.
In the book referenced, Lapham advertises his paint by slapping his brand name on any visible surface he could – boulders in riverbeds, cliff faces, etc.
@gene108: The Gandhi family has treated Congress like its own personal fiefdom, that is as responsible for Modi’s rise as anything he has done himself.
@liberal: Twice elected butcher, don’t forget. During the run up to the national election, Modi played up his economic development bona fides and played down his past with the Sangh (RSS). So he took an opposite tack to campaigning that Trump is taking.
If Trump truly is bringing disaffected whites into the political process (not sure but primary votes suggests its possible) AND he gets the GOP establishment behind him (which I think is likely) he would have a punchers chance in a general. In a Clinton vs. Trump election I think you would see a lot more swing voters in downscale soft-dems who truly want to believe all that nonsense Trump is saying about bringing jobs back and moderate Republican women who aren’t sure they can pull the lever for a buffoon like Trump over the first women President.
O. Felix Culpa
@D58826: Agreed. Nowadays white collar jobs are evaporating and being outsourced too, such as accounting, payroll, legal document review, IT support, etc. It has nothing to do with trade agreements and everything to do with cost cutting and presumed efficiencies. The structure of the job market has changed throughout and solutions are not immediately obvious, not to me at least.
This makes for scary times, both for “olds” like me in the final stages of career and “youngs” like my sons who are struggling to start theirs.
I had been convinced that tRump started off his run more for advertisement then a serious run for the Office of the Presidency; then I had my doubts and after a while, decided he was serious about the run. Then last night: no one is that dim to create a QVC ad for his own products and be serious about running. He is so over the top obviously not serious that he will fool many that he really wants that Office. If somehow, people did vote him in, he’d accept but seriously running? Not at all.
Paul in KY
@Ultraviolet Thunder: Donald will pick his own VP choice. Pretty sure of that.
So who the fuck it would be?!
Lothar of the Hill People, who will run on the slogan “Fire!”
@D58826: NAFTA is a catch all for blaming low wage Mexican workers for stealing jobs. Just saying. Nafta doesn’t explain why Toyotas and Hondas and Volkswagens have large market shares or why Japanese and German steel companies in the 80s and 90s and Chinese and Korean steel companies today dominate the metals markets. NAFTA made sense in the 1990s as a trade agreement between our two largest trading partners at the time. But since no one ever goes screaming about how well Canada made out in that deal, I’m beginning to think that NAFTA complaints are just aimed at those cheating Mexicans who cheat and steal our jobs here with their illegal immigration “policy” and steal our jobs abroad with their sneaky maquiladoras. People probably could complain about WTO I guess, but since no one wants to direct their anger at the good OECD members of Europe, best to always call out NAFTA.
@Applejinx: You’re not the only business owner posting here and you goddamn sure don’t have a monopoly on “The Truth”, although you sure act like you do.
We have listened to you – every goddamned thread for the last six months – and have found you and your message wanting. Try harder or go home.
Romney and McCain both won the Republication nomination, and both were far more viable candidates than Trump. We beat them. I wish people would be more optimistic and feisty.
@gogol’s wife: Thank you. Needed saying, and will probably take repeating. More than you think!
Out for a while; catch you guys later.
@Elizabelle: Thirded. We are going to take Trump on and he is going down.
@Applejinx: That’s an awful analogy. Kodak and Instagram are not even in the same industry.
Paul in KY
@Elizabelle: I think we’ve passed thru farce & are into bad acid trip territory.
Even at this late date, I still really don’t get it. Everybody has experience with guys like Trump in regular life.
He’s the a-hole hovering at the end of the bar, ostentatiously flashing his Rolex and fresh tan, talking loudly about his next business deal and trip to the islands, and trying to pinch the rear end of the exasperated and exhausted waitress as she swerves out of reach.
Everybody knows that guy. Everybody hates that guy. How can they vote for him?
Can someone explain?
@EconWatcher: Because they hate the black man in the White House more.
@EconWatcher: Because he’s going to bully the people who the liberals said you had to like.
@EconWatcher: I’ve thought this too. I thought it about W: that he was the “boss’s son” that everyone knows and hates. The guy who coasted in on his father’s success, never had to work too hard, lazy and not too bright but has a great job, comes and goes when he wants but expects you to be on time, and pretends he’s on the same level as the workers when it suits him, but is quick to fall back on his privilege when he needs to. People didn’t seem to see it that way. And similar with Trump – exactly what you said.
It could be that typical Republican voters are such authoritarians that they see this kind of guy and they feel like they need to subordinate themselves to him. They have a hierarchy, and he is clearly above them, and that’s OK, because they’re above the blacks and browns and that’s the natural order. That’s the only explanation I really have.
It gets him into office and out of the bar.
Paul in KY
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Trump is probably gearing up to sell them some kind of Trumpregistration kit.
Hopefully it will work as well as Trump University.
Paul in KY
@schrodinger’s cat: Which is what you have to do in an educated nation like India, where people take a greater interest in sober voting.
Not everybody hates that guy. Some people (mostly men) admire him and think he’s really got what it takes to succeed. They live vicariously through him … as long as none of them actually have to work for the asshole.
@Paul in KY
And made in China.
@O. Felix Culpa: I see the struggles that my 30 something nieces are having that as the leading edge of the boomers I never had to deal with.
Just back from doing my civic duty here in N. Carolina. And for those who havn’t voted in NC and are undecided between Bernie and HRC, well I have the solution. On the democratic ballot you can vote for Roque Rocky De Lafuente.
according to the goofle –
And for those not in NC check yopu local bal;lopt he may be on it. :-)
J R in WV
Not quite, because Modi appears to be at least as bigoted as Trump appears to be.
That is not out-done by his elective and managerial props at all. India is at least as divided a nation as America is, along class lines and religious lines. It could be even more dangerous in India than it is in the USA, we have a few more years of democratic history than India has, which may stand us in good stead.
Rocky was on the ballot in Michigan, too. Pulled in 859 votes.
@NotMax: he has the BIG MO
Paul in KY
@Peale: I think NAFTA made it easier to send the factory jobs down there & then re-import the stuff cheaper than pre-NAFTA.
@EconWatcher: A lot of people want to be that guy.
J R in WV
No, AppleJinx shouldn’t try harder. ‘jinx should stop and go home, trying harder is what ‘jinx has been trying for months, and it just gets worse. There are problems with current political economy, but I don’t see real answers in Sanders’ campaign, and certainly not in Trumpf’s opus.
Applejinx brings no light to the subject at all. Stop. Go home!
Some people — *cough*Trump*cough* — seem to think it matters. I attribute it to a not-really-Alpha-Male trying to prove that he really IS an Alpha Male.
Considering that he’s a guy whose idea of being a “leader” is “I tell people what to do and they do it,” the whole concept of “mine’s bigger” seems to fit with his overall makeup.
Since he’s been lying about pretty much everything else, I was hoping someone would call his bluff.
@J R in WV: India will survive Modi. There is already a huge push back, BJP has lost many local elections (state and city level) since it is becoming increasingly clear of what he and his party stands for. Don’t get me wrong, not everyone has given up on him but there are a lot of voters disillusioned with BJP, the ones who had voted for him hoping that he will transform the economy. Case in point, assembly elections in Bihar where BJP received a drubbing late last year.
@Linda Featheringill: No, don’t play to the end.
Parties with long, drawn out primaries are more likely to lose. Not enough time to heal wounds and turn to the general.
@Paul in KY: Sarcasm? FWIW, I think Indians made a terrible mistake in giving Modi the keys to the kingdom and they are going to pay price for it. But if Trump is elected the world will pay a price.
ETA: I was not making excuses for the Indian electorate, just trying to give some perspective on the election of Modi.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Obama lost Michigan, New York, Florida, California and Ohio. How’d that work out for him?
” A phony steak on every grill, a cubic zirconium on every finger. ”
A general election campaign where Trump ads are infomercials for his shrink wrapped steaks, vodka and really classy cubic zirconium baubbles would be fun. Trump in chef’s apron and hat behind a celebrity TV stage chef station, with Trump celebrities(!) would be fabulous and awesome. I would watch it. Wouldn’t vote for him but I would watch.
“Winner steaks for winner country, again! Washed down with winner vodka!”
Paul in KY
@schrodinger’s cat: To me, it appears that voting for Modi would be a saner choice (if one is Hindu) than voting for Trump would be (for a supposed ‘christian’ Republican).
Maybe a bit of sarcasm, but I know India as a whole revers learning much more than we do (at present time).
@EconWatcher: I think it also has to do with TV. They’ve seen Trump on TV and he’s like a Kardashian, he’s fascinating because TV.
@D58826: He was on Michigan’s ballot too.
@liberal: I don’t like Modi at all(i get creepy Ted Cruz-like vibes from him)but a more apt comparison to Modi would be ’12 Rick Perry or Kasich – a ‘successful’ governor of a large state. Trump is really not an appropriate comparison.
@Paul in KY: Hindutva, is a different animal than Hinduism. Its a Fascist ideology with Hindu symbolism and as such bad news for a diverse country such as India. I am referring to the diversity in the way Hinduism is actually practiced in different parts of India, as well as India immense religious diversity. Being a Hindu version of Pakistan would be a disaster and not just for the non-Hindus.
@Linda Featheringill: Well, that’s why I’m holding out hope for the “Republican Party White Dwarf” hypothesis. Yeah, okay, I know even that process reduces all the inner planets to cinders. Work with me here.
@D58826: He was trying to get on the ballot in Oregon too. The deadline just passed, don’t know if he made it.
@gogol’s wife: I’m. Just worn out- I want Hillary to wrap up the nomination and start building her general message. Bernie is a drain and his angry old guy schtick is just negative all the time. Really, America in 2016 has a lot going for it- sure there are challenges, but they can be overcome if ppl stop voting for GOP candidates !!! I mean we can be downers or we can look at what Obama has accomplished and go onward and upward. but go ahead and flame me for not being sufficiently pro-revolution – I just want to win.
@NCSteve: But they’re all white dwarfs.
It’s too late, unfortunately, to set up TYRION 2016.
Paul in KY
@schrodinger’s cat: Still, this guy ran a state, was in government, etc. Voting for Trump is like voting for a racist Tendulkar or some Bollywood star.
Do you think a white dumbass voting for Trump is more logical than a Hindu dumbass voting for Modi?
@Paul in KY: True, I agree, Modi has been in politics for a long time, even before he was a chief minister (like the Prime Minister but at the state level).The analogy would be someone like Kasich who is trying to moderate his image now that he is on the national stage.
Paul in KY
@schrodinger’s cat: Thank you for responding on a dead thread!