Donald Trump announces he wants all protesters at his rallies arrested. An "arrest mark" will "ruin the rest of their lives," he says.
— Jenna Johnson (@wpjenna) March 13, 2016
sure, maybe a little wrist tattoo while he's at it. https://t.co/xBltU0tiTm
— Clara Jeffery (@ClaraJeffery) March 13, 2016
Meanwhile, per the NYTimes:
BALLWIN, Mo. — A brief accounting of Senator Ted Cruz’s arguments against Donald J. Trump on Friday evening:
— He “affirmatively encourages violence.”
— He “disrespects the voters.”
— His campaign is “facing allegations of physical violence” against a reporter.
— He has created an environment that all but ensures future clashes.
And so, Mr. Cruz was asked on Saturday morning, can you still support Mr. Trump if he is the Republican nominee?
“My answer is the same: I committed at the outset,” Mr. Cruz told reporters, before a rally inside a high school gymnasium here. “I will support the Republican nominee, whoever it is.”…
On Saturday, when asked again about Chicago, Mr. Cruz began by criticizing “protesters that resort to violence” in a bid to “silence speech that they don’t like.”…
Asked again to explain the prospect of eventually supporting Mr. Trump anyway, Mr. Cruz walked away to begin his rally.
Yeah, Cruz would accept Trump’s VP offer in a heartbeat. A racing, accelerated heartbeat:
Ted Cruz in Missouri, via my colleague @katiezez pic.twitter.com/ilasK48ftt
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) March 12, 2016
Woman at Cruz rally yells: "Obama's the enemy within.
Cruz: he will soon be the enemy without
— Katie Zezima (@katiezez) March 12, 2016
Will no one step up for real change?
Broken record time, I fear Cruz way more than I fear Trump. Cruz is a true believer, Trump is a circus barker.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I fear Trump more. I don’t think Cruz could get anything done. I also think he’d be less likely to squeak out a win somehow.
I’ve shifting from Trump to Cruz. This last week has been too much.
mike in dc
I just want one truly crushing defeat inflicted on these assholes in my lifetime. Like 60+ to less than 40. Against a candidate they are true homers for. So it hurts as much as possible. And it sinks in, THEY DON’T WIN ANYMORE.
Don’t think Cruz could win it all, but I never thought Reagan could either. We have stronger candidates this time around and Cruz is hated by his own party.
Trump I fear as the aura or magic is a funny thing. I thought the John McCain comment would sink him with ever vet in the USA. He’s Teflon, and it worries me.
@mike in dc: That’s happened once in my lifetime, but I was 4 and don’t remember it all that well.
Since I know there are some Georgette Heyer fans here, I have to say it’s a bit odd to be doing research for a Regency-era novel and run into historical figures who have literally stepped out of one of Heyer’s novels. I may have to see if my library has that book just to see how she handles the story.
(It’s a little squicky to our modern sensibilities that they married when she was 14 and he was 25, but they were apparently very happy together and traveled the world widely, so it worked out for them. The city of Ladysmith in South Africa is named for her since he was a governor there and she accompanied him as she did on nearly all his military travels.)
@mike in dc: I’ll give you a Hallelujah, if you turn over the House and Senate too !
@Baud: If you can hold on until May 7th, I know three brothers in Guam. Combine that with your Cole and Zander aided wins in West Virginia and Kentucky, respectively, the week after that, and you’ll have locked up the reliable Appalachamorro demographic.
If we get 60%, we’ll take back Congress.
@Prescott Cactus: Reagan didn’t surprise me, but he was my state’s governor for 8 years prior to running for President. Trump scares me a little because of the Reagan/Schwarzenegger(celeb) effect.
Trump best have world class food tasters if Cruz is VP.
ETA: I don’t think being part of a 2016 beatdown helps Cruz in 2020 so I’m not sure I agree with the original position.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
This. Plus, for me at least, the fact that Trump may not be a true-believer in the b.s. he’s peddling-unlike Cruz- is sort of a moot point. He may or may not believe the crap he says, but his followers certainly do and they have been more than willing to be violent in response to his direct provocation and incitement.
I am least afraid of Trump in the general. He comes with negatives Reagan didn’t have, like -65 approval among Hispanics. Let that one sink in. -65. Other Republicans usually run about even. Trump is exactly the kind of candidate who turned California into one of the bluest states in the nation.
@BillinGlendaleCA: Union Labor went heavy for Reagan and they are still living with the mistake they made. A “B” movie actor and now a reality TV host business man. I don’t see Labor going with the Trumpster.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: My condolences. How did the polls get your support so wrong?
Bernie just called Trump a pathological liar to open the CNN town hall.
@Baud: This is how I feel. Trump is starting to act like a true fascist.
Also, I’m not sure if a Cruz VP brings the #NeverTrump’s back into the tent; I think the NT’s mostly stay home, especially if Trump keeps going down this inevitable slide towards outright violence (we’re basically there already and it’s a week until Spring; just wait to the heat of August). 1968 didn’t go well for Democrats.
So Trump blames Bernie supporters as some kind of outside agitators. Tweets that he wants his supporters to go disrupt some Sander rallies.
Now he has a little tantrum, demanding that all protestors get arrested.
God, the man is a fucking child.
@LAO: Beside the mark. Cruz would move the country in the direction of Dominionist Xtianity by every available means: legislation, executive action, appointments, etc. — in other words, his goal would be to capture and redirect existing institutions. Trump would simply give his people cover to take direct action: the Rwanda scenario. Of course, Trump’s people may burn the country to the ground win or lose.
@The Dangerman: A 2016 beatdown is far from a foregone conclusion. At the very least, Hillary’s habit of turning 25+ point “inevitable” leads into nail-biters and losses should be a major point of concern.
I really thought Baud! 2016 had that one locked up.
What went wrong?What did you do wrong?
I really want Bernie to stay in the race until at least June so we Californians can at least pretend to feel like we had some influence on the outcome but, man, I cannot *wait* until he’s free to really rip into the Republicans without having to look “presidential.”
I’m taking this to the convention. When Hillary and Bernie tie and the party is looking for a uniter, I’ll be ready.
@O. Felix Culpa:
The polls were skewed.
pseudonymous in nc
For some people word-cleverness is its own reward: the glib rejoinder matters more than who it affects. It’s the kind of cleverness that, unchecked, makes you an asshole.
@LAO: @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I don’t fear either as much as I fear what Trump has harnessed. A large number of people who are angry, often rightfully so, who have had their anger turned against the minority, the oppressed, the foreigner, the other instead of where it belongs: on people very much like Trump.
This will not end well.
True, Hillary is a seriously flawed candidate…
…but Trump is reverse kryptonite for even the most flawed candidate. He is going to have at least one epic meltdown in the General because he can’t hide behind his banal generalities forever.
With the stuff Cruz’s dad is whispering in his ear about how his son will be a King, I wouldn’t want Cruz to be second in line. He’s also unpopular and unskilled with Congress, so he can’t even help there. And I doubt he’s all that flexible either.
I think he will pick someone mare malliable and younger as a VP, someone who wont upstage him, a drone who would be lucky to get on anyone’s list and presumably wouldn’t be able to challenge him in some way.
Gin & Tonic
@Shell: Arrested *for what* is the question I have.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
So Marco Rubio then.
Stupid gaffe. I thought they were the Northern Marinaras. Apparently, the islanders are pesto people and some were offended.
All candidates are flawed. Clinton at least has flaws we know about and can account for, and IMO, the fact she’s shitty on the stump is more of a flaw on the Internet than to the public. Sanders’ flaw is rather more basic — so far, most Democratic primary voters prefer his opponent. Until that changes (it could!) bitching about Clinton is pure left-wing masturbation.
I don’t see how Trump could nominate a guy he calls “Lyin’ Ted” as VP. I know candidates who’ve been fierce rivals have formed reconciliation tickets, but Trump has been calling Cruz a liar and a sleaze bag cheater for so long, I don’t see how he walks it back.
@Betty Cracker: And the birtherism.
Adam L Silverman
Senator Cruz’s, as well as Senator Rubio’s, tepid attempts to condemn the violence and incitement to violence around Trump’s rallies and events, while still condemning the protestors, has been largely interpreted as them condemning Trump and siding with the protestors, as well as BLM (not the Federal agency), MoveOn, and George Soros. This seems to be because undecided GOP and GOP leading voters have poor reading and hearing comprehension skills. It also seems to be that they were going to be damned by these voters/potential voters if they condemned Trump lightly or heavily.
Adam L Silverman
@Shell: @Gin & Tonic: Unless they attack someone else or law enforcement, the charges are all misdemeanors. Even the knucklehead yesterday who rushed the stage is only facing two local misdemeanors.
I agree that this will not end well. IANAP, but I think the behavior of the Trump supporters is, in part driven by mob or crowd psychology. Individually, I expect/hope that they would not behave so aggressively awful.
Will their behavior continue if he is no longer either (1) the Republican candidate or (2) a defeated presidential candidate?
As long as you didn’t make any jokes about their Trench Mouth.
@Mnemosyne: BBC did a documentary not long ago on the Regency period. I haven’t watched it yet, but the presenter, Lucy Worsley, is a historian who works at Windsor Castle. She’s done several good shows. I think it’s a two-parter; someone uploaded it to YouTube.
Elegance and Decadence: The Age of the Regency
Trump didn’t become a millionaire by letting things go for free, speech or otherwise. It’s the smart move, I guarantee you. If people say things that annoy you, you thrown them in jail. Problem solved. That’s why he’s running against the Washington politicians who don’t have the hand size to get things done like this.
I really can’t tell if they understand that Obama’s out in January no matter what happens. I’m not all that sure they realize he’s not running.
My old man used to go on and on about how my record was going to ruin my life, It didn’t.
@SiubhanDuinne: or their sauce that is ubiquitously applied to spaghetti.
@raven: Liberals stir up the base and Republicans incite riots.
Keyboard cleanup on aisle me. Shakes non-voting fist at Baud!
My nightmare scenario: Trump gets elected, discovers that despite what republicans have been saying for the past 8 years the president is not a dictator and he cannot put a giant neon Trump sign on the white house, so he resigns and VP Cruz becomes president.
@Betty Cracker: Rude, but not incorrect.
@raven: why would a 45 of “Dang Me” by Roger Miller be so career-threatening?
Adam L Silverman
@LAO: Yes. His candidacy has created a new set of primary associations among GOP, GOP leaning, and conservative voters, potential voters, and Americans that won’t vote but agree with him. He and his primary advocates have promoted an entire set of definitions favorable (promote), unfavorable (retard), and neutralizing (temporarily over ride restrictions) for behavior. This is why you here some Republicans, and a lot of others, stating that we’ve crossed lines we didn’t know we had, we’ve created a new normal, etc. He and his primary surrogates will continue to be emulated as long as they are being rewarded positively or, if negatively, they are able to claim that the negative reinforcement is intended to stop them from doing what everyone knows is right and good.
So while you may see a lessening in the possibility of mob action and riot, we will see an entirely new socio-psychological group dynamic.
@Betty Cracker: I know Kay knows several Republicans who think it’s important that the candidate be a “good man”, but I think they aren’t going to find a satisfactory candidate this time. Bully and Liar…may they ever snivel together.
@Shell: Now imagine him facing off with Putin or North Korea. Who would be the adult in the room? The idea of rebreeding the human race with 50 women per alpha male a la Dr Strangelove probably would appeal to him.
@Adam L Silverman: well that’s fcking depressing.
@Baud: pesto ? yikes, it might be time to shake up your staff with a little pika sauce.
My advice? In Boca Baton right now, Trump just said “I still love the women.” You can’t say that too often.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Frankensteinbeck: Hell, he’s got 62% negative approval among all voters.
I dream of a Trump nomination. It won’t be pretty, but it will be a yuge rout and the only chance that the GOP would wake up about what they’ve created and learn the lesson. Not saying that they will, but it’s the only chance they will.
Adam L Silverman
@LAO: Sorry, I mistyped. They will actually bring unicorns, rainbows, and pecan sandies to minorities, LGBQT folks, and invite illegal immigrants to stay in their homes and date their daughters.
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016:
I can see him picking Jeff Sessions. Already having nightmares about Chuck Todd or Jack Tapper talking about how his addition adds “gravitas” to the Trump ticket. ;)
Baud! ? Women Cuz Women ? Baud!
It would be compared to Obama picking Biden.
Oh Trumpsie. “I love the Mexican people. I. Love. The. Hispanics. Many of them work for me.”
Major Major Major Major
I might have to just hole up and watch House Of Cards tonight to watch something less depressing and corrupt than the news for a change.
Hell, this AA meeting is going to be less depressing than thinking about the primary.
(Variation of an old punchline about the lottery.)
FSM says, “Meet me halfway, Baud. Put your fershlugginer name on the ballot!”
@Betty Cracker: From downstairs: No, “Duchesses” sounds like an intramural team for the cast and crew of Downtown Abbey.
Not much daylight between lab shit and golden retriever shit.
The Drumpf phenomenon is igniting the ugly part of the electorate which I think will continue to spread as we head towards November.
The question is where and when will this wildfire be extinguished. It’s not just going to burn out after the R convention or the general election.
@Major Major Major Major: Keep up the good work and the meetings !
@NotMax: Heh. Lessons for next time.
A bit O/T, but does anyone know how I can watch the Dem Town Hall on iPad? CNNgo expired after 10 minutes, and since I don’t have TV I also don’t have a TV provider that I can sign in with. Anybody know an alternative? The few minutes I saw before getting cut off were pretty interesting.
@Adam L Silverman: I wasn’t disagreeing with you. I’m just looking for something, anything that will help me sleep at night. I live in the bluest of blue area, neither McCain or Romney received a single vote in my polling place. I have always understood that racism and the rural/urban divide are prevalent in our society. But, the current level of toxicity shocks me.
ETA: and I have never believed my self to be easily shockable.
@Major Major Major Major: Stay
strangestrong. Remember, there’s lots of us working to defeat the Repubs, but only you can take care of your recovery!
La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes)
@Dork: I saw what you did there.
But keep in mind, you can’t roller skate in a buffalo herd.
A lot of people seem to be getting very alarmed about Trump as a potential president. I really don’t see why Trump ’16 is any different than Palin ’08. Less stupid but more offensive. All the same ignorant fans shouting appalling things at rallies. Been there, done that.
@Gardenfli: I think Trump thinks that he’s smarter than the “politicians” out there, and he wants someone to counteract Hillary’s appeal to “the ladies”. So he’d want to pick a woman from the business side of things. He insulted Carly. I think Meg has already said that he’s insane or something. Remember he said long ago that he wanted Oprah to be his VP.
Maybe he’d be forced to go with Megan McCain or Liz Cheney or someone like that – someone with a big name but not “tainted” by actually serving in DC…
I can’t see him picking anyone who ran with him for the nomination. His (much of) whole shtick is that the politicians in Washington don’t know what they’re doing, they’re weak, they don’t know how to make deals, etc. Cruz or Rubio won’t be on the ticket with him.
My guesses, anyway. And all that assumes he’ll get the nomination….
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Here you go:
I’ll put it in its own thread in a sec!
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s on YouTube (Red). Dunno if it’s on regular YouTube:
Was attempting to make a lame joke* about the Mariana Trench.
*It turned out to be lame. That was not what I was attempting.
“Rules of origin” are way more complicated – it doesn’t mean “100% made in America” – so the aide is over-simplifying or doesn’t understand it, but this would mean TPP would have to be re-worked so I think her saying this is a big deal.
Adam L Silverman
@LAO: Try the pecan sandies the Trump supporters are handing out with a glass of milk, you’ll sleep soundly.
@Adam L Silverman:
Seems to be in commercial break at the moment, but thank you both!!
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve been whisking through it but instead of relief, the two campaigns are now a hideous amalgam in the nightmare region of my brain. Please be careful of nighttime dosages .
Trump is going to pick Paul Ryan, to stick it to Romney if nothing else
No, he needs someone with a political background.
I could see Susana Martinez (Hispanic helps, too). I could also see Palin. Seriously.
Man, Hillary can’t win with you guys. ;-)
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Its up in the next thread. So just click the little arrow on the right, then hit play and you’re good to go.
Arrests for protests at his rallies will easily mean arrests for protests against him. Just imagine all those people protesting against Obama being arrested.
Between the liable laws he plans to gut to stop media from their “lies” and silencing protests all that’s missing is the goose-stepping.
Rules of origin can be crazy complicated, but don’t read too much into this. It’s not a policy commitment to rework TPP. It’s a ‘lets look into this’ only to discover that reworking TPP (and every other trade agreement) would be overly onerous.
That said, Toyota is the biggest car exporter in in the US, so let’s consider once again that the trade deals may not be the problem here. The looming crisis for the automakers is that their production methods are decades out of date, but they are so heavily invested in them that they can’t afford to change. A fully modern autonomous electric vehicle would have on the order of 1,000-2,000 parts compared to 20,000-30,000 for a conventional car. Eliminate the stamped steel process for composites and follow Tesla by ditching the dealership networks, and most of the current automakers are pretty much back to zero but carrying tens of billions of long term debt and plant investments.
Rules of origin are the least of their worries.
What? You think you understand how to govern the US better than Donnie? Unpossible!!1
Of course, the next day he said he was “joking” if you believe the Google headline from Breitbart.
Seriously, conventional politics says you need someone to counter your perceived weaknesses. But Trump seems to have a visceral objection to treating politicians as equals. So I could seriously see him picking Safra Catz of Oracle.
“She’s great. She makes so much money. And she runs Oracle which is Yooge!”
(I know nothing about Catz’s politics. I think she’d be insane to accept, but might enjoy having her name floated.)
“why Trump ’16 is any different than Palin ’08. Less stupid but more offensive. All the same ignorant fans shouting appalling things at rallies. Been there, done that.”
I hope you’re right. Last thing I want to do is hand wringing, but I feel like Palin paved the way for the legitimacy of ignorance and now we have a 78 year old sucker punching people and some elderly woman from Yorkville, IL, a hillbilly exurb of Chicago, throwing up a “sieg heil.”
Maybe, they just go back to grumbling after the election, but somehow I think that this unmasked part of wingnutdom will continuse to ascend.
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: If we’re discounting everyone he’s insulted that would certainly narrow the field. Where would Trump find a “drawbridge” sort with such self-identified loathing?
She’s winning the primary hands down, so she can’t be too bad at campaigning. Maybe one state is an ‘outlier’ and not a ‘habit’. If it’s a ‘habit’, and lots more like that happen, then Sanders will win and the problem will fix itself. Currently, it’s not looking like that.
@FlipYrWhig: Since the Great Recession a lot of folks have suffered. What I’ve noticed is that the mem’s that are popular on the right are also popular on the left. They are not equal, but parallel.
Bundy clan against government tyranny and the BLM movement against police shootings
Dislike of Wall Street on the left and the right is rallying against the Fed and buying gold.
Lack of US jobs and inability to find Made in the USA product.
Clean energy and needing a strong grid to prevent EMP damage
The left side I believe is of a more concerned nature and is trying to make things better, what I read on the right hand side makes me see the grift in people. Economic collapse, buy precious metal. Tyranny, buy a gun or a bunker.
Not all things, Obama or Guns, that’s for sure. But the discontent is there. The issues are not pretty close and the fear may not be real, but is perceived or felt.
I seriously don’t see who Trump could pick for VP. He insults everyone. Picks fights with people and fires them after they have worked for him for years. His Schick on TV is firing people and the fans he has like to watch that whereas I have a bosses boss that has mentioned how she dreads firing anyone….
If he won, whoever he picked would find him/herself at outs with Trump sooner or later and ignored sooner. The Constitution doesn’t actually give much authority to the VP so he can do that though it hasn’t been the norm for quite awhile. I think he has to have one before the election but I am not actually sure about that.
I hope you don’t feel bad, but that was one of the few jokes I get around here. Very nicely played
Major Major Major Major
@Gvg: Al Gore: I’m Al Gore and these are my Vice Presidential Action Rangers, a group of top nerds whose sole duty it is to prevent disruptions in the space-time continuum.
Fry: I thought your duty was to cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate.
Gore: That, and protect the space-time continuum. Read the Constitution!
Canada and Mexico objected to the TPP rules of origin as offering an unfair advantage to Japanese cars made with Chinese parts. It isn’t just the US. The complaint by US workers was Canada and Mexico were doing more for their domestic workforce than the US was. It’s a valid complaint, in my opinion. Again, Martin, it’s not reciprocal. Japan protects their domestic industries. The US is letting everything in but other countries do not reciprocate. You’re not asking them to “compete on a level playing field”. You’re asking them to let everything Japan exports in when Japan doesn’t reciprocate for US-made products.
The estimate is TPP will cost about half a million jobs in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan. That’s net. Democrats have to address it honestly. There’s a reason very few Democrats voted for it in Congress and there’s a reason Republicans are running away from it. Paul Ryan quietly announced he won’t be bringing it up any time soon. I don’t know how Democrats win nationally without Illinois and Michigan and they could certainly use Ohio. Unless we’re planning on flipping Texas in the next cycle, Democrats have to address trade and “tough luck, you lose” won’t work.
@Kay: yep. I really do question this. If someone could explain what trade we currently aren’t doing with Japan that we now would be able to do, it would be helpful. But we’ve been trading with Japan seriously for sixty years. What markets are we going to get out of this?
@indycat32: even simpler: Trump is quickly impeached, since the votes are probably already there no matter what charge they settle on. And whoever had the foresight and cash to buy the VP slot from him glides in with the night.
If the polling is correct she will have an almost insurmountable lead after Tuesday night. Of course the polls were wrong in MI, so who knows.
Let me guess without even opening the link…Juana and Harry Smith?
Thanks! We seem to be able to get a fair amount of BBC programming through either Amazon or Netflix, so I’ll also see if it’s on one of those. G got me hooked on “The Supersizers Go …” and they had a fun Regency episode. A lot of people don’t realize that the repressiveness of the Victorian Era was in large part a reaction against the freewheeling Regency Era.
My big thing at the moment is deciding on a year — should my evil villain be trying to overthrow the Hanovers during the Peninsular War or during the civil upheaval that followed it?
You win! Harry Smith participated in the burning of Washington DC in 1814, which is how he popped up in my current research. I just got to the sad part where Gen. Ross, a major hero of the Peninsular campaign, gets killed by a sniper outside of Baltimore. The battle that inspired “The Star-Spangled Banner” is imminent.
(The book is “When the British Burned Washington,” recommended by Origuy.)
I think the argument is this:
1) We know East Asia’s economies are going to grow much faster than those in Europe or the Americas. Exports drive much of the activity in the economy, so being able to export to growing areas is extremely important.
2) China is a rising economic power, but they’re also a rising military power and they still are more repressive at home than we’d like. China getting richer is good for the world, but we don’t want them to think that with their economic power that they can dictate political terms to weaker neighbors. (That’s why there’s so much push-back over the South China Sea stuff.) The US needs to be involved in East Asia as a counter to Chinese hegemony (among other things).
3) Encouraging developing economies to join a multinational trade group like the TPP (12 nations including the US) helps encourage them to develop their political and legal systems as well as their economies. Having, say, Myanmar just turn into a glorified sweat shop may be appealing now, but it’s a recipe for long-term disaster. Making Myanmar and Vietnam and Laos parties to agreements like these also puts pressure on other “cheap labor” nations to improve their standards. That includes China.
Krugman and others have pointed out that the TPP won’t really have that much affect on US exports since so much is already covered by other trade deals. That may be the case now, but things can change rapidly over the next 20 years. Dean Baker is right that there’s no such thing as “Free Trade” so we should talk about these things rationally and look at the details and not accept that things that might be regarded as “protectionism” are necessarily bad.
In general, I think the TPP makes a lot of sense. The US leading the trade block is better for us than if China had locked up these 11 nations instead. And it is a carrot to offer China in the future – “adopt these standards and we’ll let you in ….” But the devil is always in the details.
Kay makes a good case that US manufacturing will be under continuing pressure under a deal like the TPP. I don’t know enough about the details to argue that US manufacturing will be better or worse off under the TPP than otherwise. I believe that Japan has opened up their market more than it was in the 1970s (when supposedly imported cars had to be completely disassembled and inspected before they were allowed to be sold). US exports are an important element of our economic health. I don’t think we can have a healthy economy simply by exporting movies and video games and cancer medications that are protected by restrictive copyrights and patents while letting manufacturing whither. I think we need a strong and growing manufacturing base. But I don’t know how we get there given the world as it is. Cars are 100+ year old technology. Jet passenger liners are nearly 70 year old technology. Creation of new products and new materials is the way forward, but the knowledge to do so (in part created by foreign students who have come to US universities) is worldwide. Money moves around the world instantly.
Probably the best thing we can do for our long-term economic health is to invest in our universities and research labs.
There is no reason why we should be in a race to the bottom to let businesses do whatever they want. “Let us cut our wages or we’ll go to China.” But it’s a hard sell to say that developing nations should be under the same types of rules as the world richest and most powerful nations. How can they develop if they have no infrastructure if they can’t allow companies to pay low wages while selling on the world market?
The White House TPP pages make a good case, but of course they would. ;-) Will Kay’s take come closer to reflecting reality in places like Ohio? Dunno.
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Whoops. Laos isn’t in the TPP.
If Donald Trump is an exaggerated Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin was an exaggerated George W. Bush. Himself not exactly the first Republican in that vein.
It’s a really long term policy. The idea is the US “leads” on trade and other countries open their markets, raise their wages, start enforcing environmental law. The problem is there’s a lag, and in that space (which can and has been decades) US workers see no benefits. They (understandably) don’t want to “lead” on trade if that means other countries don’t have to play by the same rules for what can be an adult lifetime- since the 1970’s.
A lot of times you’re asking people who are barely making it to take a hit for ‘the team”- world commerce. It’s a very hard pill to swallow.
Which is news, I am sure, to Larry Ellison.
@mike in dc: @mike in dc: AMEN!
I haven’t read “The Spanish Bride” yet, it’s on my list…didn’t know Harry had been part of the burning of Washington! But did know that a lot of Wellington’s crack troops were sent to America.
@SFAW: Sure, Oracle is his baby, but he seems to have started handing off responsibilities starting in 2014.
But I dunno.
No One You Know
@Betty Cracker: Why would he walk it back? Couldn’t he ignore the inconvenience of having ever said it, blaming the media (“over 70% are liars, just terrible” — if I remember the front-page story in USA Today, today)…and change the subject? That seems to be working fine for him…
Gaia aitch fucking ruin, it’s like these people *want* the fucking Desolation Of Smaug.
Gotcher RV plumbed up with extra propane and shotgun shells? Have fun starving to death, you appear to be too fucking stupid to survive.
I know what the official version is.
I also have a pretty good idea of what’s actually happening. (Note: and that “pretty good idea” is not based on tea leaves, magic 8-ball, or other speculation/magical thinking. No, I’m not directing the “magical thinking” at you; just trying to say it ain’t me pulling stuff out of my ass.)
@SFAW: To me, she’s just a name on that list that seemed like one that would be an impressive get for Donnie. (I’d never heard of her before.) I have no inside knowledge of what’s going on within her head, Larry’s, or Donnie’s.
@Betty Cracker: see: Voodoo Economics.