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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Late Night Open Thread: Utah in Play… Maybe

Late Night Open Thread: Utah in Play… Maybe

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Sometimes progressives assume — not without reason — that calling oneself a “religious voter” really means “I’m a narrow-minded bigot looking for an excuse to feel all superior about my racism and misogyny.” But there are people who won’t vote for Donald Trump because his loudly professed xenophobia is contrary to the teachings of their religion, and some of them are Christians.

On the other hand, since I’m not well-versed in Mormon theology, I’m not sure how Ted Cruz’s oleaginous Domininism measures up, or fails to, for Latter-Day Saints less bipolar than Glenn Beck…

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52Comments

  3. 3.

    Geoduck

    It’s my understanding that Salt Lake City proper is surprisingly cosmopolitan, and you get the hard-core attitudes when you head out into the surrounding smaller towns.

  4. 4.

    opiejeanne

    @Geoduck: That’s what I’ve heard as well, that SLC is at most 50% Mormon, and their previous mayor was a Democrat but I don’t know about the current one. Also, the newspaper seems to have that liberal bias wrt to facts and is not particularly impressed by the LDS.

  5. 5.

    opiejeanne

    From the linked article

    Madison County — home to Brigham Young University–Idaho

    BYU is not in Idaho, it’s in Provo, Utah.

    The article contained at least one fabrication about Joseph Smith, no doubt fed to the author by a Mormon (or maybe the author is one as well). My eye JS would die defending other religions that couldn’t defend themselves. Any reading of how he and his flock behaved in Nauvoo towards non-Mormons should put that to rest.

    The article may be right that Trump’s outrageous behavior is anathema for Mormons, who tend to not like disrespectful behavior, bad language, etc. Dissing Romney didn’t help, either. There was some disparaging comment about Mormons before his “I love Mormons” reassurance more recently, but I can’t remember exactly what it was. It struck a nerve when I heard it and I’m not a Mormon, so I imagine that it was more powerful for Mormons.

  7. 7.

    Raven Onthill

    Sanders had a stunningly huge (for Seattle) rally in Seattle:

    The crowd last night — the Seattle Center confirmed Sanders’ campaign estimates — was 10,312 inside Key Arena, 5,500 outside plus 1,500 who went home when they couldn’t get in.—Veteran Seattle reporter Joel Connelly, on the Web Site That Used to Be A Newspaper

    Sanders is polling well in Utah, too.

  9. 9.

    opiejeanne

    @Raven Onthill: That was on the news tonight. The reporters sounded excited about how big the crowd was, and how enthusiastic. We might have gone but we were really busy so didn’t think to check.

    We have reservations to hear Hillary in Seattle on Tuesday but we still don’t know when or where. Probably Key Arena, but there are a couple of other possibilities like Century Link; the indoor area is pretty big.

  12. 12.

    JPL

    Polling this far out in Utah, is questionable. There’s such a high number of people that say they won’t vote and that number shrinks over time.

  14. 14.

    Zinsky

    I know a lot of Mormons and they truly are a cult, which is what the GOP has become, so they should feel right at home there! Cults have charismatic leaders who lie to their cult members regularly (check), cult members are told to believe in things that are demonstrably false (check), cult members are told that no other source of information than their own is accurate (check), and that their opponents are not just wrong but evil as well. No, I think the GOP is the right choice for Mormons!

  16. 16.

    Amir Khalid

    @Raven Onthill:
    Always, the caveat: attendance at rallies does not equate to votes in the primary. We’ll know soon enough how the latter turns out.

  18. 18.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    The UV/IR cut filter that I ordered was delivered yesterday, it allows me to do regular photos with my IR camera. Shooting IR allows your photos to cut through haze, so I tried an experiment.

  20. 20.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    Trump was complaining again about AF-1, he’s obviously got plane envy.

    My previous comment is in moderation, why?

    Guess FYWP doesn’t like links anymore.

  28. 28.

    sm*t cl*de

    “Fulfillment of Mormon Prophecy”
    So Cruz is the Mahdi? The Ersatz Haderach?

    Just thinking by way of analogy, when Baptists say that the Pope is a Fulfillment of a Prophecy, they don’t mean it in a good way.

  29. 29.

    Robert Sneddon

    @magurakurin: Rallies don’t translate into votes — SoS Kerry got 80,000 people at a rally in Wisconsin in 2004. He lost the state and the election.

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    I seriously doubt any Democrat can really carry Utah. It’s only 6 EVs anyway, and if the Democrats do lead there it’s probably an unusual circumstance that won’t carry over to neighboring red states. But they can make the Republicans sweat and spend money there.

  31. 31.

    sherparick

    For a long time Mormons were mostly Democrats. This goes back to the initial fights in Illinois, the issue of polygamy, and Mormons’ racist theology about African-Americans. In the 19th century, the Democrats defended and protected the Mormons while the Whigs, and later the Republicans, regarded them as a barbaric cult whose scandalous behaviors (polygamy) and proclivity to use violence (the Mountain Meadows massacre was one among many incidents- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre ) to advance their religion and browbeat their critics were certainly not entitled to 1st Amendment protections.

    Once the practice of polygamy ended (formally as Church doctrine), the pro-business, pro-property protection, and anti-communist (= socialist = anarchist) leanings of many wealthy Mormons tilted them to the Republicans. Still, until Orrin Hatch and the 1970s, usually one of two Senators from Utah was a Democrat, as the the LDS liked the idea of having a foot in each party. Under the influence of wealthy Mormons like the Mariotts and in reaction to the Democrats transforming into the party of Civil Rights and Women Rights, Utah became solid Republican (for a brief period in the New Deal, it was solidly Democratic from 1932 – 1948).
    Finally, I wonder how happy the LDS leadership is about Mike Lee, Ted Cruz’s one friend in the Senate and who is, like most Republicans under 45 a complete idiot since all he and others like him have had to do to get elected the last 8 years is to repeat Rush Limbaugh’s talking points. Apparently, the demographic audience for that does not exist under 30.

    Still, it would be a shock if Utah, which has voted Republican in every election after 1964, and had voted Republican in the 3 elections before 1964, would vote for a Democrat, particularly Hilary Clinton. That would be a true shocker.

    In more good news for Democrats, Sharon Angle is running in the Republican primary in Nevada. If the Democrats could run Ol’ Yeller against her, I expect we would win (and Neveda would have much better Senator).

  34. 34.

    Denali

    Mitt Rommney, to his credit, is the only Repulican elite who has condemned Trump. I think his words have swayed the Mormon voters,who are certainly in the majority in Utah. Whether they will be persuaded to vote for Ted Cruz is still in question. They probably will not vote for a Democrat.

  36. 36.

    lihtox

    @Zinsky: Brandon Sanderson (sci-fi author), Howard Tayler (webcomic Schlock Mercenary), and Dan Wells (horror/sci-fi author) are all Mormons; I’ve read their work and listened to them many times on their podcast Writing Excuses, and if there’s anything “cult-like” about them I have yet to see it. I suspect Mormonism is more diverse than you or I tend to suppose.

  37. 37.

    Paul in KY

    @NR: If Trump is nominee, I still expect Utah to vote for him. Will have to see it (Dem win) to believe it.

  38. 38.

    Paul in KY

    @lihtox: Orsen Scott Card is also Mormon. Lead singer of The Killers is Mormon. All members of Neon Trees are also Mormon.

  39. 39.

    jonas

    @lihtox: Regarding Mormons as a bunch of kooks at best, and a dangerous cult at worst, has a long history. But the evangelical Right’s embrace of Mormonism over the past several years as something they can at least abide, if not actually embrace, is pretty stunning. I grew up in an evangelical church and Mormons were always talked about as a heretical sect in thrall to a cheap pseudo-prophet. A cut above Scientology, but just barely.

  40. 40.

    jonas

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s not just the Mormon thing. Utah’s a rural state — lots of the usual grievances about environmental regulations, BLM, gun control, etc.

  42. 42.

    Steeplejack

    @opiejeanne:

    Apparently “Brigham Young University-Idaho” is the official name of that branch of BYU. I think the confusion is because in the sentence

    This dynamic was perhaps most vividly demonstrated earlier this month in the deeply conservative Madison County—home to Brigham Young University–Idaho and a population that’s estimated to be upward of 95% Mormon.

    the em-dash after “Madison County” can give the (mistaken) impression that the en-dash after “University” is a matching dash to set off the phrase “home to Brigham Young University.” The sentence would have been clearer as

    This dynamic was perhaps most vividly demonstrated earlier this month in the deeply conservative Madison County, home to Brigham Young University-Idaho and a population that’s estimated to be upward of 95% Mormon.

    This has been another edition of copyeditors with time on their hands.

  46. 46.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Paul in KY: Though Card has become increasingly politically nuts over the last couple of decades, so he no longer works very well as an example of the cultural mainstreamness of Mormons. In the 1980s into the early 90s he seemed like a liberal with a few out-of-band anti-gay opinions; now he spins Red Dawn fantasies about Obama the tyrant and his black street-gang stormtroopers.

  47. 47.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Thanks to public schools and organized youth sports, I have many friends and acquaintances who are Mormon. Of course, we are far, far away from Salt Lake City, Utah and what I have found is that the further removed they are from the “Kaaba of LDS” in SLC, the more likely Mormons are to reflect more liberal values in their lives–they don’t hate gays, they use birth control freely and have kids out of wedlock, they find all kinds of ways to guzzle caffeine, and I have yet to find one who shows any evidence of wearing that full body underwear everyone loves to mock :-D. .

    Thanks to Facebook, you get to see what they link to or post in regards to their political and religious beliefs, too. Some are just not engaged politically, often fail to vote. But most are, and of those folks, regardless of what they are like in person, 100% are loyal Republicans and politically conservative.

    The interesting thing is, a couple I know who grew up here and/or are more recent converts are talking like they’re voting for Trump– for all the same reasons the rest of his followers are. The rest are taking their cues from Elder Romney and voting for Cruz. (Except for my friend who had an abortion a couple of years ago because she broke up with an abusive boyfriend who she wanted NO ties with–she’s just not voting).

    And, contrary to whatever the press is saying, it’s for reasons that are not necessarily good omens for the state of Utah going Democrat. Nor are they good omens for any of us that want to live in a sectarian Democracy.

    1. They don’t like voting Democrat if at all possible (which makes me wonder about how Harry Reid got elected)

    2. They listen to what their church tells them to do, especially if it comes from “Temple Mormons” like Romney who they see as even closer to the word of “God/Kolob”.

    3. Cruz is their guy. The cult of “Dominionist Christianity”, which Cruz deeply believes in and wants to see come into full fruition, is totally inline with Mormon beliefs that the US Constitution was God-inspired/directed”. They believe that their Book of Mormon, the most accurate revision of the Bible, will be the religious guide for our nation, and that with the help of Christians like Cruz, the US will become a Theocracy. This is “secret” Mormon Prophecy. For them, it WILL happen. They point to the large number of Mormons in the higher, more secret echelons of our Government, like the DoD, CIA as “insiders” that will help the transition.

    So, forgive me if, in my religious bigotry, I don’t get TOO exited about Utah, and the Mormons, “not going for Trump”. I don’t see it as anything positive for me.

  48. 48.

    Nate W.

    @sm*t cl*de: The White Horse Prophecy is a fascinating thing: it maintains its importance among many Mormons (especially those that are fond of Cleon Skousen) despite the fact that the LDS Church has repeatedly disavowed it. It also has many interesting parallels with the prophecy that inspired the Ghost Dance Movement (which ultimately resulted in the Wounded Knee Massacre).

  50. 50.

    Dmbeaster

    @Ella in New Mexico: Your experience is the opposite of mine. Southern Utah is a bastion of hard core Mormons with polygamy still practiced in places other than Hildale Utah (Warren Jeffs’ former haunt). My Mormon brother lived outside SLC and my non-Mormon sister in Pocatello, Idaho. The locals were more hard core in Idaho, but nothing like Southern Utah where my sister-in-law lived. My brother is no longer part of the Church.

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