Okay, I swayer I’m not trying to stoke the Hillbot vs. BernieBro flame wars here, but this is too good not to share:
In case you can’t watch, CNN’s Chris Cuomo tells Hillary Clinton that Bernie Sander’s campaign manager said the Clinton campaign must be careful not to “destroy the Democratic party to satisfy the secretary’s ambitions to become president,” and asks for Clinton’s response, and she cracks up.
Maybe she knew that was coming, but I don’t think so. She seems genuinely astonished and amused, like I would be if my 17-year-old criticized my driving or financial decision making — what in the actual fuck?
H/T: Buzzfeed
MomSense
Did Weaver really say that?? What a numbskull.
Linnaeus
I’d probably respond the same way that Clinton did.
Betty Cracker
@MomSense: Yes — he did.
Nancy
Bernie needs to start acting like a Democrat, not an independent, and spread around some support where it’s badly needed in down-ballot races. But speaking of ambition . . . seems he’s too busy running for President.
SiubhanDuinne
I love Hillary’s genuine laugh, like the one in the clip. (She also has a forced laugh, which isn’t at all attractive. Actually, I suppose that’s true of most of us.)
@MomSense:
Yeah, I was listening to the car radio earlier and they played the clip of him saying that. Numbskull is right.
MomSense
@Betty Cracker:
Of all the critiques they could make, this is the most absurd.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Logic has no role in the Bernie or Bust movement.
I can’t wait for this primary season to end.
By the way, were the folks here aware that hillaryis44.com/ is still up and running and has been since Obama won in 08? There’s a whole lot of crazy contained in the pink website.
dogwood
It seems Bernie’s revolution will be staffed by old-school overpaid Democratic Party hacks.
? Martin
Wait, I thought Sanders’ leading pitch was to destroy the Democratic party? I don’t mean that in the sense that he wants to destroy liberal policies and goals, rather that his pitch is that the system is rigged against the public, and the Democratic party is unavoidably part of the system. He opposes how the Democratic party chooses their nominee, he opposes how they fund their campaigns, he opposes their maneuvering with corporations and other parties to maintain power. Isn’t he here accusing Clinton of trying to achieve the very thing he’s trying to achieve?
schrodinger's cat
I predict that Bob in Sovietland will make an appearance in this thread.
TAGinMO
@SiubhanDuinne: My thoughts exactly. The forced laugh as a defense mechanism when she’s clearly uncomfortable or even angry is not her best look. But this was genuinely endearing.
rikyrah
tee hee hee.
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA
California authorities raid home of anti-Planned Parenthood videographer
Investigators with the California Department of Justice on Tuesday raided the home of David Daleiden, the anti-abortion activist behind a series of undercover videos targeting Planned Parenthood, the activist said.
Authorities seized a laptop and multiple hard drives from his Orange County apartment, Daleiden said in an email. The equipment contained all of the video Daleiden had filmed as part of his 30-month project, “including some very damning footage that has yet to be released to the public,” he said.
A spokeswoman for California Attorney General Kamala Harris (D) said she could not comment on an ongoing investigation. But the raid confirms that California is among the states looking into possible criminal activity on the part of Daleiden and his organization, the Center for Medical Progress, which have been the center of controversy since releasing videos purporting to show that Planned Parenthood illegally sells fetal tissue for a profit.
Iowa Old Lady
My keyboard freaked out this morning, but I now have a new one. Thank god. Being unable to generate words was disturbing.
It looks to me like Sanders hit the number he needed last night as long (57% more or less), which is great. Congrats to him. But I doubt he can hit it consistently throughout the rest of the primaries. I want the infighting to end.
BGinCHI
Well, you did marry a Buffalonian, Betty. Finger’s crossed your daughter doesn’t come at you with that.
p.a.
I was having a late bar lunch when this was on, but she had several laugh takes at Boinie’s expense. Or was CNN just repeating the one? as I implied only half paying attention.
Hoodie
Doesn’t say much for Bernie’s honesty (or competence) if he lets a jackass like that out in public. Clinton looked genuinely surprised Weaver could say something that moronic.
dmsilev
@MomSense: I have faith that we’ll see something more absurd yet. Not sure what, but it’s coming. Still another two months of primary season after all.
Roger Moore
@MomSense:
I believe the technical term is “projection”.
dr. bloor
The intertubes have been bubbling with rumors that HRC is at wits end with Bernie and is going to go big-time negative on him in NY. I would imagine this is Weaver’s effort to “confirm” that she is morphing into Queen Attack Dog.
seejanerun
Isn’t this one of Karl Rove’s favorite tactics? Pick your own weakness and attack your opponent for it.
dogwood
@TAGinMO:
It’s not anyone’s best look.
Roger Moore
@Iowa Old Lady:
I would strongly recommend a mechanical keyboard. They’re mostly marketed to gamers, but they’re robust, and the key feel is very good. They make both clicky and non-clicky models.
Princess
She has a really great laugh.
Elizabelle
I think Hillary’s laugh was genuine. The Weaver comment sounds like pure projection.
The art in the background is kind of odd and distracting.
BGinCHI
@rikyrah: Couldn’t happen to a nicer criminal asshole.
WarMunchkin
I imagine a kid with her hand in a cookie jar saying, “I was just going to lick the cookie, I wasn’t going to eat it!”
Major Major Major Major
@? Martin:
Pretty much, yeah.
I would’ve laughed a hell of a lot longer, personally. Like a total Anderson Cooper giggle meltdown.
Iowa Old Lady
@Roger Moore: I like clicky. I’ll check it out. The one I’m using now was excavated from Mr IOL’s pile ‘o junk.
Mike J
@Roger Moore: And I love having my wasd lit up.
dogwood
Growing up Catholic , I must admit Bernie reminds me at times of those insufferable converts who would call your mother if they saw you eating a burger at the local drive-in on a Friday night.
scav
@Nancy: Oh, but he cares so much about the party that he won’t injure it by touching it overmuch, certainly not for daily use, rather keeping it under plastic slip-covers in a room he visits only on special occasions when he’s trying to impress certain types of people. (The covers and the dim light really protect it from spills and keep the fabric from fading.) Beyond his personal benign neglect, he’s very careful about warning other people away from interacting with it and possibly breaking it –that and once in a while telling the party itself to get out of his way because it might get jostled on his way to something else.
(Ok, this is weird, because I’m not even that fond of party structures myself, but at least I recognize they’re a part of the system we’ve got and need to be oiled, maintained, acknowledged and sometimes worked around as well as with. They’re not just label pins slapped on when convenient. There really must be an infestation of absolute idiots in political infrastructure anymore.)
Steeplejack (phone)
@Iowa Old Lady:
Das Keyboard. Strong and best clicky since original IBM PC keyboard. Efgoldman has one also.
MomSense
@Elizabelle:
Is that green thing an artichoke? Allium? I can’t tell.
LABiker
Here’s the Sanders approach to helping other Democrats win tough races.
facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207994631617916&set=gm.596789133822420&type=3
Miss Bianca
OMG, I put the headphones on to listen at work and *I* started laughing when she did!! Just couldn’t help myself – yeah, she’s got a *great* laugh! And a great point too, I might add…
NotMax
Uh huh. And it don’t rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.
;)
Eric U.
@Steeplejack (phone): I have been using a type M IBM keyboard. It’s not one of the really nice type M’s, but it works great and the keyboard layout is the way that God intended. I was thinking about getting one of the modern ones, mine just has ps2 cable and my new computer doesn’t have a connector for that. So I’m using a horrible yet expensive logitech wireless keyboard
dollared
@dogwood: You didn’t! Didn’t you know the drive in was for hanging out on Sunday mornings when you volunteered to take your little sister to Mass without Mom?
Miss Bianca
@dogwood: OK, I’m laughing again now at your comment…
Brachiator
The Swiss police wouldn’t give me no peace,
They claimed I was a nasty person…
In the news:
Swiss police have raided Uefa’s headquarters in Nyon to seize details of a TV rights contract signed by the Fifa president, Gianni Infantino, following the Panama Papers leak.
The files, seen by the Guardian, show that Infantino – formerly director of legal services at Uefa, European football’s governing body – co-signed a TV contract in 2006 with two businessmen who have since been caught up in football’s global corruption scandal. Uefa, which has denied any wrongdoing, said it is cooperating fully with the Swiss police.
Well, since Bernie doesn’t belong to the Democratic Party, how is this his business?
dogwood
@MomSense:
if it’s an artichoke, then artichokes will become the new arugula.
blueskies
Hillary’s response?
“BWAHAHA! That’s silly! Destroy the Democratic Party? Ha! I AM THE MUTHERFUCKING DEMOCRATIC PARTY! BITCHES!”
…just an alternative perspective on that hearty laugh. :)
debbie
@MomSense:
Looks like a giant ceramic artichoke. It seems to match the walls.
NotMax
Heh. Just watched new season opener of Archer.
“Eat a dick, gravity.”
Hoodie
@dr. bloor: Being queen attack dog doesn’t necessarily hurt Hillary and may actually help in the long run. Her biggest problem is the sniping of the media about her supposed vulnerability evidenced by an inability to put Bernie away. Now may be a good time to get nastier and do just that. NY is a good place to start, as that electorate knows her and likely will not be fazed by it. Bernie’s doing a great job of pissing off long term members of the party, so they could care less. It will upset some of the more hardcore Bernie worshippers, but they already think she’s Cruella de Ville.
Calouste
@Hoodie: Well, Sanders has so far only released one year of his tax returns, and a summary at that. If you’re less open about your tax returns than any other candidate in the race besides Trump (and that even includes Car-lie Fiorina), maybe you’re not that honest. And if you have, as Sanders claims, a straightforward tax return, and you can’t bring it up at a few days notice, maybe you aren’t that competent.
It makes me think that something is hidden in those returns. Maybe his wife has a paid “advisorship” with the NRA or so.
BGinCHI
How much of the HRC-Bernie thing is a Wish Elizabeth Warren Was Running dynamic?
Bernie + HRC = Warren, in a lot of people’s minds (female prez and progressive with daggers for Wall St)
Brachiator
@dogwood:
Eating a burger… Is that what they called it where you grew up?
MattF
Whatever the psychological import, the important point is that Sanders staff are saying things that are out of touch with reality. And it’s noticeable.
El Tiburon
@Nancy:
Please FSM no! More war more giveaways to Wall Street more selling out.
Mike J
@Calouste:
Rumor has it he lets David Cameron handle his money.
Calouste
@LABiker: I noticed that there was a spelling mistake in that screed. Somehow that doesn’t surprise me in the least.
debbie
@BGinCHI:
I would have liked her to run.
The Golux
@Eric U.:
You can get a PS2 to USB adapter at Amazon (while supporting Balloon-Juice!) for about five bucks.
Brachiator
@blueskies:
Le partie Democratique, c’est moi. Muthafuqueres!
El Tiburon
Bernie Bro Alert
thenation.com/article/the-problem-with-hillary-clinton-isnt-just-her-corporate-cash-its-her-corporat…
Uncle Cosmo
@schrodinger’s cat: That’s Boob in Putinland FYI. And, not yet, but give him time…
Calouste
@El Tiburon: How many wars has President Obama started? And how many wars did Bush start? And how many wars do you think Trump or Cruz would start?
different-church-lady
It’s very important that Clinton leave the party intact so that Sanders can destroy it.
scav
@El Tiburon: Well, in the name of utter purity, enlighten us as the radiant superiority of gun-manufacturers as cuddly-objects of protection.
Gimlet
NY primary Apr 22.
realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ny/new_york_democratic_presidential_primary-4221.html
Hillary up 10-12 in polls at end of March
Major Major Major Major
@Calouste: something something droooooones/libya/support for israeli apartheid
Miss Bianca
@debbie:
I like her right where she is. We could use more like her in the Senate.
Cacti
@El Tiburon:
And yet, The Nation is always happy to give Stephen Cohen a platform to blow kisses at Vladimir Putin. I guess it helps when you sleep with the editor.
Progressive!
Uncle Cosmo
@Hoodie: Talk about projection. It’s grifters like Weaver in St. Bernie’s camp who don’t give a shit how much damage they do to the Democratic Party or the nation in general so long as they keep their fat paychecks coming.
dogwood
@BGinCHI:
There’s some of that, no doubt. But even when it comes to Elizabeth Warren, I’d have to hear her views on more than just banking before I’d jump on that bandwagon,
Miss Bianca
@different-church-lady:
I’m glad we got *that* straightened out, finally…
Cacti
Also too, it’s defcon 5 in Bernfeeler land over his face plant with the New York Daily News.
No less than Democracy Now! had a special feature to discuss what a not-disaster the interview actually was.
Is El Tiburon the BJ nym for Amy Goodman?
gene108
@LABiker:
I got into a long facebook discussion over that photo and caption.
I tried explaining to folks Hillary’s helping down ticket races, Bernie has not done so. So Hassan’s lining up with Hillary, who is working harder for Team Democrat.
There was a lot of both sides are corrupt, so supporting Hillary isn’t good.
And I’m not going to vote because everything sucks and my vote doesn’t matter.
The person, who posted does not come across as a die hard Bernie supporter.
Just someone disgusted with the status quo.
Linnaeus
@dr. bloor:
If Clinton does go negative on Sanders, it will be interesting to see how she does it.
Yellowdog
@dr. bloor: She doesn’t have to attack. She just had to have an ad of someone reading quotes from the NYDN interview. And show their front page.
debbie
@Miss Bianca:
I know. You have lots of company. But I don’t see anyone addressing the issues of the banks and corporate overreach — which are very important to me — the way she would with the same kind of directness she uses.
Oh, well, I can always dream.
Linnaeus
@Cacti:
I think you mean Defcon 1. Defcon 5 is where you want to be at.
Cacti
@Yellowdog:
And maybe some footage of Mayor Sanders putting in a good word for bread lines in Nicaragua and Cuba.
Turgidson
@BGinCHI:
I will say, I scoffed at some of my purity-fetishist liberal acquaintances who said, while saying for the 7484th time how Obama is such a sellout/warmonger/disappointment/tool of Wall Street, that if only Warren was in the White House we’d totally have our unicorns and ponies already, and that she’d totally mop the floor with the GOP even worse than Obama did. I pointed out that Obama and Warren were both on the same goddamn ballot in one of our most liberal states and he outperformed her by 7 points, and that she’d have to deal with the same band of braindead nihilists in Congress (or Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, and co-Presidents Snowe and Collins back in 2009) that Obama did. This was always followed by some Green Lanternist nonsense about something something bully pulpit!
Anyway, I don’t retract any of that, but since have come around to the belief that in this particular election, Elizabeth Warren, if she had run in Bernie’s place and gotten an early start, would have pulled off the upset Bernie will just fall short of, and would probably be positioned to dominate the general too. She really is a nearly ideal combination of each candidate’s strengths without some of their most glaring weaknesses. She’s just as passionate a populist as Bernie, but knows the details on those issues and others much, much better. She has something similar to Clinton’s gravitas but seems more genuine with the media and in speeches. She’s already weathered a lot of GOP slime (unlike Bernie, though admittedly not nearly as much as Hillary’s dealt with) and emerged stronger (like Hillary but with way less baggage – fair or not to HRC – that we know of). She was the one Democratic politician who probably could have electrified young voters like Bernie has while also impressing the Vox/Krugman/etc. types with her attention to policy detail. She’d be credibly independent from the establishment without alienating it as much as Bernie seems determined to do.
That said, she didn’t want to run and is and will remain one of the nation’s best senators and will push Hillary to be a better president once she’s in office.
Linnaeus
@Yellowdog:
She should do her own interview. That would make the contrast with Sanders clearer.
Brachiator
Callers to a local radio show. All Trump supporters. They want a businessman in the top job. “He’s been on the ground, and knows how to get things done. ”
Another, “I just care about border security and jobs. ”
For what it’s worth, expressions of sympathy for the young Bernie supporters getting shot down by the Democratic Party Establishment.
Trump’s abortion remark gaffes seem to have resulted in a small 3 percent dip in his support heading into New York.
Cacti
@Linnaeus:
What you said then.
chopper
@Linnaeus:
i would too, only with a few “the fuck?”s thrown in.
Gin & Tonic
@Eric U.: You can get a PS/2 to USB adapter to use your old keyboard. I have an old IBM TrackPoint keyboard that someone will have to pry from my cold dead fingers, that I’ve used through more computers than I can remember.
chopper
@Iowa Old Lady:
you should have called trump. he has the best words.
Iowa Old Lady
@Steeplejack (phone): Ooh! Pretty!
trnc
@SiubhanDuinne:
Glad I’m not the only one thinking that. I know she gets a lot of mansplaining about smiling/not smiling, yelling/being too quiet, etc, but I really believe she has a fake laugh that sounds exactly like a fake laugh. The one in this clip seemed genuine (and why not, since Weaver’s comment was ridiculous). I hope she retires the fake one.
Also, IMHO, her answer was perfect.
Gin & Tonic
@Cacti: I feel Cohen is a hair’s breadth away from endorsing Trump.
Cacti
@Turgidson:
Being a woman and all, Warren also wouldn’t be seen as trying to hold back a woman from becoming POTUS.
Iowa Old Lady
@chopper: I’ve decided that I can always go to Hamilton for words of wisdom and Trump for the preposterous.
Linnaeus
@SiubhanDuinne:
Being a born and raised Midwesterner, I like it when Clinton’s Chicago accent comes out.
Baud
@Turgidson:
@Cacti:
Warren would have been scarier to the power that be from the get go. I’m not sure dynamic of the race would have been the same.
trnc
In the spirit of the open thread, WTF is going on at TPM? Goddamn freakin’ EDF ad takes over the whole page and prevents clicking on anything, including the giant damn X that should close the ad. I reloaded the page 5 times because it was the only thing I could do, but the ad came back every time. AAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!
Patricia Kayden
Call me when Chris Cuomo asks Trump about destroying the Republican Party in his vain attempt to be President.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden:
To be fair, Cuomo didn’t invent the question. I can’t blame him for asking for a response.
Miss Bianca
@Turgidson:
@debbie:
And I think the fact that Sen. Warren decided to resist the call to run for President is one of the things I like best about her. Honestly, the one cavil I had at the time about then Sen. Obama running for the Presidency was that he’d only had one term in the Senate. He turned out to be an even better Prez than I’d dared dream, but I wonder how he would have dealt with at least *some* of the obstructionism he ran into if he had had a big, LBJ-like history of favors and deals and legislation behind him. Or maybe the wingnuts would have freaked out no matter what because OMG, Black Man in the White House.
agorabum
@Nancy: bernie won’t need a party because something something revolution. And it will all just work itself out.
Coincidentally, Bernie won Wisconsin as did Scott Walkers right wing judge for the Wisconsin supreme court. I just don’t understand how the revolution didn’t fix that vote. Must be a glitch in the system
Turgidson
@Cacti:
True. Being a woman and all, she also may not have had to deal with the marauding BernieBros being her most vocal, if not numerous, supporters on social media. (She also wouldn’t have David Brock regularly embarrassing her with his assholery like Hillary does)
I’m sure she would have had her share of obnoxious supporters as all candidates do, but the “Bros” aspect might have been less glaring.
Citizen_X
@blueskies:
Needs to slam her sidearm down on the bar for maximum effect.
(Last Detail ref)
aimai
@Miss Bianca: Yup. I loved it.
Germy Shoemangler
Meanwhile, on the republican side:
liartownusa.tumblr.com/post/53067170563/donald-trumps-chilling-scene-in-stephen-kings-it
Steeplejack (phone)
@Eric U.:
Dude, Das Keyboard is the answer! I had a brace of original IBM keyboards that I hoarded and got every different kind of adapter for until they wore out. DK is the Dalai Lama reincarnation of the original.
Patricia Kayden
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Well now those PUMAs can work their butts off to make sure that Hillary is 45.
Turgidson
@Baud:
Good point. They saw Bernie as just a nuisance almost until the voting started. Warren would have been more formidable from the beginning. The DWS-led DNC may have felt it necessary to smother her candidacy right away. Not sure that would have worked out – may have backfired. Hard to say.
Gimlet
mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article70202867.html
WASHINGTON
Even if she eventually vanquishes Bernie Sanders in the primaries, Hillary Clinton might have serious trouble winning over his voters.
One out of four Sanders supporters– 25 percent – say they would not back Clinton in a general election if she became the Democratic nominee for president, while just 69 percent say they would support her, according to a new McClatchy-Marist poll.
Gin & Tonic
@Steeplejack (phone): If only they had a TrackPoint version….
PsiFighter37
What a goddamn asshole.
You do notice that Bernie never apologized for things he does or for what his minions say? I hope he can go back to yelling at clouds, and if his seat isn’t the margin of the majority, I’d really like to see Chuck Schumer boot his ass from the Democratic caucus so that he can be what he is – a uselessly ineffective legislator that nobody likes. Kinda like Ted Cruz, I guess…
Anya
Good for Secretary Clinton. That was a ludicrous thing to say.
I’ve being meaning to mention this but I keep getting distracted. My friend who’s a total Bernbro is convinced thta every single member of the democratic party is as bad as Cruz or Trump. But Berie with his army of dissafected Millenials will bring the revolution. But here’s the thing, According to the polls, POTUS is very popular among the millennials.
My question is where do Bernie and his supporters get this idea that without Sanders the party is doomed and they’ll lose the Millennials & the independents? Why do they think campaigning against President Obama in the Dem primaries is a winning strategy? And how are they supposed to win the national election if they don’t want to associate with their own party?
PatrickG
@efgoldman:
I really want to test this theory, but what if you’re right?
Patricia Kayden
@Germy Shoemangler: I found this Jeb! meme on your link and can’t stop laughing.
liartownusa.tumblr.com/post/139804764075/as-you-have-forsaken-jeb-so-you-have-forsaken-me
Baud
@Gimlet: Clinton supporters said the same thing about Obama in 2008. Most of them came around.
PsiFighter37
@Anya: They aren’t actually Democrats. I’m quite convinced that a lot of people have gotten duped by Bernie. I’m also convinced that after the Daily News interview, he frankly isn’t all that smart either.
debbie
I think this is the first time Cruz has even partly walked back one of his stupid remarks.
He may not realize just how long New Yorkers’ memories are. Pity.
Turgidson
@Miss Bianca:
I think the wingnuts would have reacted the same no matter what. I mean, Hillary had more time in the Senate as well as being First Lady, and earned the respect of a bunch of Senate Republicans, and hell, even worked amicably that insufferable bastard Newt Gingrich for a time. That’s not stopping the entire GOP – moneyed elites all the way down to braindead base, including those Senators who know her well enough to know that HRC-related “scandals” are ginned up bullshit and she’s actually a reasonable person, from going batshit with rage about the idea of her being president now.
But Obama might have suffered somewhat with his own party as a result of his short time in the Senate and lack of time to build relationships and build up favors to call in. Not sure that would have had much effect on the blue dogs and that insufferable twit Lieberman, but it couldn’t have hurt.
Calouste
@Gimlet: That McClatchy poll is the only poll of the last 10 listed on Pollster that gives Sanders a lead, and 1 of only 2out of the last 10 that gives Clinton a lead of less than 6 points.
JPL
When asked by a reporter on CBS evening news, about the Newtown parents being upset with his statements about guns, he responded that Hillary should be ashamed about the deaths in Iraq. Hillary should be upset about all the jobs lost due to trade. Holy Crap.. I don’t like this guy. I bet he runs as a third party candidate.
also.. how about a little empathy for those who lost their children
Anya
@Gimlet: Doesn’t mean anything. In 08, 50% of Hillary supporters were saying they will not vote for Obama as late as July. Here’s what the CNN headline was saying on May 2008: Exit polls: Half of Clinton’s supporters won’t back Obama
We all know how that turned out. The great majority of Bernie supporters will vote for the Dem candidate.
Miss Bianca
@Turgidson:
Yeah, this. This is what I was wondering. We’ll never know, now. But if HRC gets elected president, that gives Sen. Warren 4-8 years to beef up those relationships!
Gimlet
abcnews.go.com/Politics/note-wrong-trump-clinton-wisconsin/story?id=38189522
-BEHIND THE WISCONSIN DEMOCRATIC NUMBERS:
Sanders benefitted both from the demographics and from advantages over Clinton in excitement, inspiration and perceived honesty alike.
He won particularly broad support from men, 63 percent – better than anywhere save New Hampshire and Vermont – while splitting women evenly with Clinton.
He won liberals by 18 points, and they made up a record share of the state’s primary electorate by a wide margin. He won whites under age 45 by a huge margin, with 78 percent support, among his best results in this group to date.
As in other Northern states – but not in the South – Sanders also ran competitively among nonwhites younger than 45, winning them by 56-43 percent.
Turgidson
@Gimlet:
Larger percentages of Hillary 2008 supporters were saying they wouldn’t support Obama at about the same stage. Almost all of them did, thanks in part to Hillary’s admirable exhortation to support the nominee and campaigning for him once she conceded. That part gives me hope that the Berniacs will come around, mostly.
The part that worries me is that I’m starting to think Bernie won’t be half as supportive of Hillary as Hillary was of Obama. I don’t think he’ll do anything explicitly to discourage his voters from supporting her, but he may not do much to encourage them either. And his young supporters are the hardest ones to turn out when they’re not excited, so HRC will need his help turning them out in force. Obama had the advantage of being their preferred candidate all along, which Hillary doesn’t.
dogwood
@Miss Bianca:
In order to have a history like LBJ in terms big favors to hand out, you have to have big majorities to work with.
Gin & Tonic
@Miss Bianca: In 8 years Elizabeth Warren will be as old as Bernie Sanders is today (too old for Presidentin’, in my view.)
Gimlet
@Calouste:
???
Corner Stone
I never liked David Axelrod, so he can just STFU AFAIAC. But I used to really enjoy Billmon. That motherfucker has gone all the way off the GD rails. He’s like a reborn version of Cole’s CDS but with a zealotry that only the holy, pure and rebirthed can possess. Not sure I’m ever going to be able to scan his shit again after this primary is over.
Baud
@Turgidson:
She had her chance to destroy the Democratic Party and she blew it.
Larime
The Bernie fans are turning into a tin-foil hat crowd before our eyes.
Corner Stone
@JPL:
That’s exactly how he actually is running at the moment. Just conveniently using an established infrastructure and identity without putting in any of the work.
dogwood
@Miss Bianca:
Maybe Elizabeth Warren doesn’t want to be president.
Emma
@gene108: I am getting fed up with the disgusted people. Progress isn’t a series of marvelous upwards steps that appear out of nowhere to the sound of the Hallelujah choir. It’s messy and it’s hard and you got to fight the bastards every step of the way. The most basic of requirements in a democracy is that you vote. To paraphrase Heinlein, you might not have something to vote for but you’ll sure as hell have something to vote against. So get over yourself and participate or sit down and shut up.
Corner Stone
@Mike J:
Dude. Way TMI.
Baud
@JPL: Bernie said that or Weaver?
Turgidson
@Miss Bianca:
Yeah but unfortunately she’s already 66 years old. I think 2020 is the last cycle she might consider running in, if FSM forbid, Democrats lose this one and there’s still a functioning government once the Trumpenfuhrer or His (Ass)Holiness Tailgunner Ted Cruz has had 4 years to fuck up everything in sight.
Corner Stone
That ambitious bitch better know her place! Ya feel me, bro?
dollared
@Larime: No, really, it’s just your projection.
Anya
@PsiFighter37: I think he’s an asshole. I used to see him as the caring but cranky old dude. But now he seems like someone who’s tone deaf. He’s only focused on one issue without any nuance. So he comes off flippant. Just look at this interview he did with NPR after the midterm elections:
On African-American support for Democrats
WTF does that mean?
Calouste
@Gimlet: That poll is an outlier, by a fairly large margin. All its data should be viewed with skepticism.
Miss Bianca
@dogwood:
Sigh. So noted. On both counts. : )
ETA: And believe me, I have no hound to hunt in the “Warren for President!” campaign. In fact, I was getting more than a mite irritated with the “Draft Warren!” movement.
@Turgidson: Dang. Really? I keep thinking she’s about my age (a bit younger than 66!)
Turgidson
@Corner Stone:
Totally agree on billmon. Such a shame too – he used to keep his pissed-off-leftism rooted in reality and was one of my favorite Twitterers, but he’s fall-down, piss-drunk on the Bernie-or-bust Koolaid to the point of unhinged crackpottery right now.
Gimlet
@Turgidson:
I’d have to spend more time than I want to check it out, but I think the “vision” of America and policies are a much more at odds between Sanders and Clinton than Clinton and Obama.
She even served as his spokesperson at Sec of State.
Gimlet
@Calouste:
What poll?
It’s not a Clinton vs Sanders poll.
Anya
@Corner Stone: I totally agree with you about Bilmon. I unfollowed him on twitter today. I couldn’t take his stuff anymore.
Baud
@Gimlet: Anything is possible. But polls like that are still meaningless.
dollared
@Miss Bianca: You really don’t get how independent voters work? And TV ads? The blitz against the good judge was evil and huge.
dedc79
Remember Dennis Hastert? He’s trying the good ole “Haven’t I been punished enough?” argument:
Just Some Fuckhead
@Anya: There will never be a revolution driven by young people. They are unreliable and stupid. Worse, their youthfulness makes them inherently hopeful and revolutions only happen when there is no hope left.
Turgidson
@Miss Bianca:
I know – she seems younger. Partly because she’s fairly new to the national political scene, I think. She is super smart and will probably be more than capable of running and serving at age 74, but may not want to, and fair or not, ageism would probably drag down her chances.
Baud
@Anya:
I never followed Billmon, but it sounds similar to why I have up on GOS in 2010.
Once Balloon Juice turns, I’m done forever.
Mike J
@Gimlet: And Sanders got 71% of the self described “independents” who voted in the Democratic primary.
Corner Stone
@Turgidson:
I honestly don’t think Billmon is all that enamored with Sanders. I just think he has pulled up anchor and sailed over the horizon searching for the white whale that is CDS. It’s really an obsession at this point.
Davebo
That was pretty freaking awful.
And it’s not from some B rate actress surrogate (or A+ actress surrogate) but from the freaking campaign manager.
I’m pretty sure even Bob in Putin isn’t going to try to defend that silliness but who knows.
Miss Bianca
@dollared:
Eh? Why is this obliging remark aimed at me?
Prescott Cactus
@Roger Moore:
@Steeplejack (phone):
I had never heard of a mechanical keyboard before.
les
@Gimlet:
I wonder how many of that 25% have ever voted, or at least voted Dem. Which is to say, I wonder if that actually matters.
SiubhanDuinne
Anyone know anything about this?
I just got a fundraising email from the Sanders campaign (I know, there’s a surprise, right?) and it starts off like this:
(Their emphasis.)
Does anyone know what Weaver is talking about here — what CNN actually reported, what the Clinton campaign actually said?
Anya
@Just Some Fuckhead: My friend is the worst. He’s unreliable. WHile he enthusiastically voted for Obama in 08 and 2012, I had to drag his ass to the polls during the midterm elections and he lives in a state where his vote matters.
Baud
@les:
I’ve only seen polls on that question one way. Is anyone polling what Hillary voters are saying?
les
@Miss Bianca:
Dunno. She’s not young.
Turgidson
@Corner Stone:
Agreed – I think he likes Bernie, maybe a lot, but mostly Bernie is a vessel for billmon to express his total contempt and burning hatred of all things Clinton.
Corner Stone
Holy fuck! Is that Andrew Sullivan on MSNBC?!
ETA, IT FUCKING IS! FUCK THIS FUCKING SHIT!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Anya:
It means he’s an entitled old white male racist. What on earth else could it mean? Of course, he and his bros will be the first to correct me to say that he’s not racist, just calling African Americans stupid for not appreciating Bernie’s superiority.
Anya
@SiubhanDuinne: This might explain it. He started that crap at the Rachel Maddow Show. It has to do with this storyline
Mike J
@Anya: Pretty evil of that old battleaxe to imply that she might be a better president. Can you believe the shit she tries to pull?
Turgidson
@Corner Stone:
Oh boy. Speaking of burning Clinton hatred. Why couldn’t that innumerate Tory douche just stay gone a few more months?
If MSNBC and New York Magazine have a lick of sense, they’ll ban him from discussing Hillary Clinton, completely, without exception. Let him skewer the GOP – he’s half decent at that – but keep him the fuck away from the Democratic race.
Gimlet
@Baud:
Right now the likelihood is that Hillary will win the nomination, so her voters can afford to be magnanimous. If this changes, it would be interesting to see the sentiment.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Anya: Its white privilege in a socialist hat.
Just Some Fuckhead
I can’t fucking stand the way that Clinton, Sanders, Trump and Cruz sound. Truly the most annoying voices and speaking mannerisms on the planet.
JPL
@Baud: Bernie.. he didn’t show empathy to the children who died at all. I still might vote for him, if he is the nominee, but he made it a lot harder.
gogol's wife
OMG, the back button works in comments. Hallelujah!
gogol's wife
Is there not going to be a thread congratulating Levenson on his Guggenheim?
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne:
Weaver tried to deflect off Sanders’ dumpster fire of an interview with NYDN by calling HRC an ambitious bitch, praying she will pin Bernie’s ears back in the rebuttal.
So they can then talk about how much damage HRC is doing to the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
And fund raise off it, natch.
Mike J
@gogol’s wife: They gave him a museum?
les
@Baud:
I haven’t seen any, but I haven’t looked, either. I expect there are some Clinton supporters who say they won’t vote the Bern, there certainly were those types in ’08. My earnest hope and belief is that such folks won’t be a problem, because one day they’ll forget to breath or their reminder won’t come through, and they’ll go away. The stupid, it burns.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: The Bernie Sanders that was on CBS Evening News is going to run as a third party. He really does want to destroy this country. IMO
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone: I suspect the Twitters might have rotted Billmon’s brain.
Corner Stone
Sully just mis-interpreted TNC to explain structural racism in America.
***faints***
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@JPL: And here we see Senator Sanders shielding himself from the gunman with a nearby baby.
Drunkenhausfrau
The bernistas have completely turned me off. New Naderites.
Mike J
@Corner Stone:
Did he at least plug Coates’ new comic, Black Panther, available in finer comic shops everywhere from today?
Villago Delenda Est
OK, Bernie guys…you’ve about driven me to vote for Hillary come May, regardless of what the conventional wisdom is at the time. First Bernie pulls a series of Drumpfs with the NY Daily News editorial board, and now this bullshit that is moving the Bernie campaign into Roger Stone country.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@JPL: Unless he’s chucking Jill Stein out of the Green Party candidacy, its a bit late for that.
dogwood
@Anya:
The meaning of most of that statement is pretty clear to me. The real question is what it reveals about his understanding of the electorate, of the cultural forces that determine how a voter votes or if he even chooses to vote. Declaring that people should vote based on their economic interests such a simplistic view. It isn’t just working class whites who vote against their economic interests. Millions of upper middle class and and wealthy voters do so as well. But his real shallow thinking comes in when he talks about race. Blacks voted for Obama because he was black is insulting. It’s also straight out of the right wing-media narrative. I’m a retired white woman, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that African Americans are pretty sceptical of white populism.
Percysowner
ARRGG! I just turned on my TV. It was set to MSNBC and in the middle of Andrew Sullivan was bloviating. Apparently the left wing of Democratic Party has gone so far to the left that they are all Marxists, Hilary has never won a contested election and Ted Freaking Cruz is our only hope because he is smart, thoughtful and believes in the Constitution! Either Sully is worse than I remember, quite possible, or I’ve been transported to another dimension.
The stupid it burns!
NotMax
@JPL
Two words which put the kibosh on that: filing deadlines.
Villago Delenda Est
@Percysowner: I’m in favor of stripping Sully of his citizenship and deporting his ass to the sun.
Somehow Hillary has managed to win contested elections in the past, or does his memory have a 10 year expiration window?
different-church-lady
@Prescott Cactus:
Retronym.
Corner Stone
@Percysowner: I am sorry to be the one to tell you this…but what you just *think* you witnessed? It actually happened. He said those things.
Calouste
@Gimlet: From the link you posted, but apparently didn’t read:
JPL
@NotMax: @The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: Thanks for talking me down.
different-church-lady
@SiubhanDuinne: Ah, now I know where the Orcs at the GOS got this new chant from.
Turgidson
Thought experiment: If Bernie actually pulls off both the primary upset and the general election win, how long will it take before the worst of his Bro-type supporters declare that he’s betrayed them and was a secret Wall Street hack all along and I can’t believe we still use DRONES, etc etc.?
I’d give it a month after inauguration. He’d probably make it at least to his inauguration, unlike Obama who had already lost a lot of those types due to Rahm, Geithner and Summers being tapped for his administration.
different-church-lady
@Turgidson: There’s a lot of it about.
Gimlet
@Calouste:
My quote deals with a different part of the article. I made NO comment on Bernie vs Hillary national polls.
Baud
@Gimlet:
@les:
We may never know for sure. Given that Clinton’s supporters are presumed to be wealthier, I wonder how they would react to Bernie’s tax proposals, which would surely be the center of the GOP’s campaign if he were the nominee.
different-church-lady
@Turgidson: The moment he starts naming cabinet members. I started saying it months ago.
Turgidson
@Percysowner:
Sullivan said that?
Good god, he must have had multiple lobotomies and gone to a reeducation camp while he was away.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Prescott Cactus:
Once you’ve gone clicky you’ll never go back.
They make Das Keyboard for Macs, too.
Corner Stone
@Mike J:
I only heard him bleat about thoughts contained in Between the World and Me but honestly, for most of it I was hearing the blaring siren they play in the kill scenes in Kill Bill
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@seejanerun:
GWB was always careful not to let anyone be more Republican than Thou, though. So Team Berni made a mistake even the Chimp was warry enough not to make….
dogwood
@JPL:
What?
Peale
@Percysowner: the former editor of even the liberal new republic wants cruz?
MomSense
@Anya:
He blocked me.
debbie
@Percysowner:
I’m actually surprised he’d go with Cruz.
JPL
@dogwood: Look at my comment at 117… Pretty much Hillary is responsible for everything… IMO he talked as if he was running as a third party candidate. NotMax and The Sheriff talked me down from jumping over a cliff.
Mike J
@different-church-lady: Hadn’t been to Kos in a while. Thought this was interesting:
15% of Sanders supporters “did not know who they voted for” or voted for Bradley. 4% of Clinton voters did that.
dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/6/1511354/-Successful-movements-are-about-more-than-one-person
Calouste
@Gimlet: It’s the same poll. In polls, they usually ask the people who are being polled multiple questions. In this case Marit, the pollster, asked the interviewees both who they would vote for in the primary, and if they would support the other candidate in the general if their preferred candidate would lose the primary. The results they got for the preference in the primary are significantly different from the average of other recent polls, which suggest that the sample of interviewers they used or any statistical corrections they made isn’t reliable, and consequently that any data from that poll isn’t reliable to a certain degree.
Percysowner
@Peale:
I think that is where he was heading. I could only take about a minute and a half of him and then I turned it off. I was surprised because Sully used to have a pretty set moral compass i.e. “if it’s good for me, then it’s good, everyone else can go jump” But there he was saying the homophobe who wants to outlaw homosexual behavior is our best bet.
I admit I’m a proud member of the fifth column that he wanted to charge with treason because I was against invading Iran, so he gets on my nerves pretty quickly.
aimai
@SiubhanDuinne: I think there is just enough vaguness here for them to not need to mean anything. Yes, she is going to try to disqualify him (say he is not qualified) and yes she is going to try to (gasp!) beat him! Unheard of! You might even think this is some kind of primary election fight! The nerve! But the true believers will start spinning hysterically, in fear that the dread “Clinton Hit List” (which I have seen referenced at Kos) will be brought into play.
Anya
@Baud: According to some BJ insiders, Balloon Juice is hanging by a thread.
Davebo
@Villago Delenda Est: Sullivan isn’t a citizen yet as far as I know though he does have a permanent resident status.
StellaB
@aimai: Does Bernie have a cat? Kathleen Willey always claimed that HRC broke into her house and killed her cat. That could be the “Clinton Hit List”.
Turgidson
@Percysowner:
Seriously, if that was where he was going, I really do wonder where he was and what he was doing while he was away from blogging/media. The Clinton derangement was a constant, but putting that aside, he had (finally) come to view the GOP as a dumpster fire of hate and fail. No one embodies everything he was railing about more than Tailgunner Ted. The idea that Sullivan would even reluctantly plant his flag on Team Tailgunner is honestly shocking.
I long predicted, before Sullivan quit blogging, that if Hillary was the Dem nominee, he would twist himself into logical pretzels looking for a way to reluctantly support the Republican nominee, even as Hillary almost-explicitly campaigned for his hero Obama’s 3rd term and the GOP nominee was the biggest right-wing wackjob they nominated since Goldwater. But I thought the GOP would at least put up a plausibly reasonable person like Jeb or Kasich, even as the platform was somehow wayyyy to the right of Mittens in 2012. I didn’t think they’d actually nominate Trump or the Tailgunner. And I wouldn’t have predicted Sullivan would support them, even reluctantly, under any circumstances. Dumbfounding. Really, did he have multiple lobotomies during his hiatus?
Roger Moore
@Prescott Cactus:
They’re vastly superior. Most cheap keyboards use a membrane switches under each key, which are cheap and work OK, but which don’t provide good tactile feedback. Mechanical keyboards use traditional mechanical switches under each key, which makes them much more durable- they’re supposedly rated 50 million presses and up- and lets them provide better tactile feedback. Some models also make a distinct click with each press, which many touch typists like. The drawback is that the switches are more expensive, so the keyboards are a lot more expensive, too.
Anya
@dogwood: Blacks vote for the party that represents their interests. It might be imperfect or not enough but the Dem party speaks to their issues. That’s why black voters voted for a white Jewish man in a predominantly black district, against a black candidate, who used his Jewishness and whiteness against him. And the same reason they didn’t vote for Michael Steel.
Bob In Portland
Larry Summers, on why the Democratic Party has become worthless to the under 30s:
Pure gold! That’ll get ’em running to the polls for a Clinton.
Betty Cracker
@Percysowner: Christ on a pony, for real? Fuck that stupid fuck, then. If he thinks his dick will save him in the Republic of Gilead, he needs to read the blueprint more closely.
dogwood
@Percysowner:
Sullivan went anti-Christianist until he got what he wanted. He doesn’t care about homophobic state laws because he doesn’t live in a red state. He’ll be back in the ultra right wing Libertarian, pseudo-Christian fold forever now.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Drunkenhausfrau:
You can’t spell Nader without Sanders.
Calouste
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: The Green Party convention is a week after the Democratic Convention (in, don’t laugh, Houston. Maybe if you’re really serious about being green, you don’t hold your convention in the fossil fuel capital of the nation).
Steve in the ATL
@Baud:
A lot of us are in the Baud-or-bust camp, so it could get pretty ugly here is $hillary steals the nomination from you. Maybe then we can over to Atrios and read two hundred comments on each post of people talking about what they had for breakfast and what the local weather is.
Bobby Thomson
@? Martin: Clinton’s a pro, so she let you come to that conclusion rather than stating it explicitly. But her answer contains all the pieces.
Davebo
@Bob In Portland:
Not to defend Summers but he claims Suskind made that quote up. And it wouldn’t be the first time.
Roger Moore
@StellaB:
Bernie has no pets, which you’d expect to hurt him here at Balloon-Juice.
Davebo
@Davebo:
And it appears that I was right.
smith
@Bob In Portland: Huh. I thought it was only twice.
FlipYrWhig
@Turgidson:
Never. They’ll instead say that THE ESTABLISHMENT! forced terrible people into his administration who proceeded to ruin everything. Bernie can never be wrong, only betrayed.
dww44
@Just Some Fuckhead: Does that make you a committed Kasich voter?
Steve in the ATL
@Mike J: Unrelated, but do you still listen to WEVL? My cousin was the other day with his Mellotron for a dueling Mellotrons show (as if that hasn’t been done to death, right?)
Bobby Thomson
@BGinCHI: there are other components?
gogol's wife
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Wow, you’re sounding like a wise man.
FlipYrWhig
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yes. It’s GIMME MONEY AIIEE THEY CAN’T STOP US IF YOU KEEP GIVING US MORE AND WE CAN”T SHARE IT BECAUSE REASONS. It’s a total shit-show and “the left” should be embarrassed with itself.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Who the hell is uncomfortable talking about “the role of the billionaire class in American society”? People might be confused about how pervasive it is. They may not understand that those ads on TV telling them Merritck Garland wants to take their guns away are paid for by people who care fuck all about guns, and consider the people targeted by that ad to be embarrassing, unwashed rabble that one wouldn’t allow to use the front door, they just think Merrick Garland wants to take their guns away.
People who hear Mitt Romney say Obama is strangling our investment markets aren’t thinking about the details of Dodd-Frank and capital reserve requirements, they think That One is doing something, they don’t know what, but something nefarious, doing something to keep their IRA from growing at a faster rate.
I think this touches on why Sanders sounded so dismissive when he waved away Trump’s comments about women who have abortions must be punished. In his mind, abortion is a settled question, therefore it’s a distraction from the one real issue, billionaires. Trouble is, in the real world, in our present Congress, in our present 4-4 Supreme Court, in statehouses all over the country, abortion is very much an unsettled question.
eemom
I’m fairly certain that the re-activation of the erstwhile blessedly silenced Sullivan at this particular time, piled upon all the other manifold horrors of this election season, is a sign that the Almighty has us in his plague-hurling crosshairs. Look out for whatever’s next.
Calouste
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
FTFY
Davebo
@Bob In Portland:
Don’t Believe Ron Suskind
But then you Bob, obviously like Limbaugh, have the courage to believe.
FlipYrWhig
@Anya:
What this means is that Sanders thinks that everything that’s bad about America is because The Billionaire Class bought the politicians to prevent them from doing anything about the real problems, so if we just get billionaires’ dirty money out of politics everything else clicks into place, from racism to health care to the environment. Because he’s an ignoramus who’s convinced he’s brilliant. I genuinely dislike this person.
Mnemosyne
@dollared:
Remember, as long as you get to Mass in time to line up for communion, it still counts as a whole Mass.
Keith G
@les: @Baud:
I wasn’t going to paste this here but since I see that this is being addressed in a round about way…
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What I really want to know is how the hell can he pivot away from racial issues and then claim that the next topic is going to be the “uncomfortable” one by comparison?
RaflW
@Roger Moore:
It is also much more of a Republican thing to do, so I look doubly askance at Bernie and Weaver for that.
Steve in the ATL
@Anya:
Sounds like Rep. Steve Cohen in Memphis!
different-church-lady
Because I want to:
different-church-lady
@different-church-lady: I have the feeling I’m going to be really hated for whatever hell will be started due to this…
dogwood
I’d also add that I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that voters are more likely to follow through with these threats not to support the nominee if they live in heavily blue or red states.
Steve in the ATL
@different-church-lady: We love pets AND art here at BJ!
dogwood
Anya: Yup
FlipYrWhig
@different-church-lady: Mayan?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@dogwood: John Fuglesang is big on the “Vote your head in a swing state, vote your heart in a state where it doesn’t really matter”. I tend to be too quick to borrow trouble, but that invites two problems: Who decides what’s a swing state? We’ve seen some razor sharp margins–2000, 2004; do we really want to risk a Dem president about whom it can be said “She lost the popular vote!”
@different-church-lady: Reminds me of the God’d-Eyes my oldest sister and her friends used to make in the seventies. I think they were feeling stoned and craft-y (as opposed to crafty). Or maybe they were still Girl Scouts. Or both. it was a long time ago.
nutella
@dedc79:
Shaming and humiliation. Right. Exposed for crimes that he committed is just so not fair.
More disgusting details of how influential white politicians who commit crimes are treated:
So his bank helpfully told him he was doing something that had to be reported and then cheerily cooperated in his illegal series of smaller payments.
Privilege after privilege after privilege.
I hope the judge throws the book at him.
Quotes above from Chicago Tribune.
Corner Stone
Man, this Jeff Weaver asshole. This is the guy you want out front for you?
Percysowner
@Keith G: To be fair, back in 2008 the worst the Republicans were going to nominate was the Romneybot, they weren’t about to nominate someone apocalyptically bad like either Trump or Cruz.
Cacti
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
And you can’t spell Bernie Sanders without a big BS.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: Which sand dune can I find you safely tucking your head into, my man?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: Remember when we all vowed to bail on HRC if she hired Mark Penn again, because staff makes the candidate (and yeah, Penn was and is a huge asshole, second only in Dem hires to Dick Morris).
dogwood
OT: I use the mobile version here because the desktop version is still slow. But for my purposes the update is really difficult to read. Comments aren’t numbered and I’m screwing up replies.
dmsilev
@different-church-lady: No matter how I squint, I can’t see the hidden 3D image. Can you give us a hint?
dogwood
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I wasn’t advocating that strategy, simply saying it might be easier to do if you think your vote doesn’t count toward the electoral college.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I remember when Cole uttered things like that. Not sure about the “we all”.
RaflW
@Corner Stone: This, really. Sanders knew going in that an independent run would have zero chance, so he got himself onto the Dem primaries. Not because he became a Democrat. Or wants what Democrats want. But because he wanted a viable pathway to power.
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
Some mind-altering chemicals usually help in that department.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@dogwood: wasn’t saying you were promoting the idea (and I’m aware that Fuglesang’s audience is probably dwarfed by that of Poughkeepsie Public Access TV), just following my own train of thought, and it is one of many things I worry about, because Eeyore is my political spirit animal
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: You’re eliding the point, but that’s fine. You seem to bunch your panties up mightily when I also comment on commercials, so maybe pie me?
prob50
@Brachiator:
FlipYrWhig
@RaflW: Well, also because if he ran as a lefty independent he’d badly damage the Democratic candidate’s chance of winning, which he knows. He never really wanted to win until he started falling in love with his own excitable fans.
Davis X. Machina
@FlipYrWhig: He’s not an ignoramus who thinks he’s brilliant, he’s a historicist, and he’s working in a particular tradition.
It.’s pretty much orthodox socialist thought going back 150 years or so that when you change the mode of production, and you change all the social structures that it called forth that are embedded in it. Marx’s Preface to the Critique of Social Democracy has the canonical version of it.
FlipYrWhig
@Davis X. Machina: Interesting angle. Maybe so. But Bernie Sanders strikes me as that guy who sees that there’s a very long line and a short line at the grocery store, figures he must be the first one to hit upon the idea of trying the short line, and then gets all in a huff when the short line turns out to be closed. He thinks everyone else is dirty and/or lazy and/or stupid and that he’s just the one to finally do the obvious thing no one else can. I find it outlandishly arrogant.
Miss Bianca
@Brachiator: @prob50:
I know, it’s so wrong, but once I finally twigged the reference I thought it was hilarious, too!
PatrickG
@different-church-lady:
Shut it down. diffferent-church-lady has won the thread. I just wish I’d thought of it first!
goblue72
If you don’t want to fan flames, then don’t fan flames with lies propagated by Andrew Cuomo’s brother. Here’s the quote:
“A top aide to Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders warned late Tuesday that rival Hillary Clinton is running a divisive campaign that is hurting party unity. ‘Don’t destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary’s ambitions to become president of the United States. We want to have a party at the end of this that we can unify.’
“Weaver said Sanders and Clinton should generally engage in a “tough debate” on issues, but he added, “Let’s not denigrate other’s supporters and tear the party apart. The senator has tried to run an issue-oriented campaign; obviously the contrast has become sharper of late,” he said on CNN. “We’re fully prepared to engage in that environment if they want to.”
He didn’t say Clinton shouldn’t be President because she’s too ambitious or whatever nonsense spin the Clintonistas in the corporate media spin. He’s merely tossing back at her camp the criticism that the Clinton campaign’s sharp elbows could harm party unity. Its the same criticism that the Clintonistas are throwing at Sanders (“he should quit for party unity”). They are just throwing it back in her face.
This is all totally above the belt. But please, butthurt away.
Corner Stone
@goblue72: No one is getting butthurt about the stupidity Weaver is clearly quoted on the record as saying. HRC herself laughed spontaneously at how ridiculous on its face that garbage was.
That’s what laughter looks like. You may recognize it from what all the people around you are doing while they point at you and wipe away the tears.
Davebo
@goblue72:
FTFY.
FlipYrWhig
@goblue72:
He’s tried SO HARD but he just can’t help himself! Lord, make me run an issue-oriented campaign, but not yet!
cbear
@Keith G:
Ah, c’mon dude, try not to disrupt the narrative, wouldja? It harshes everybody’s mellow.
Comrade Mary
@Corner Stone: Billmon blocked me after just two tweets. And I simply criticized his unhinged attack on someone pretty decent. I didn’t even swear in English OR French.
marduk
If you’ve spent any time discussing the democratic nomination online (for instance here at balloon juice) the question makes perfect sense. The campaign messaging that Clinton supporters are running with is maximally designed to offend Sanders supporters. How many hippies can you punch before you destroy your base? The under 35 crowd is the difference between winning and losing the general and every keyboard warrior who chooses to leave no Sanders supporter un-offended is doing god’s work for the republican party.
nellcote
per Maddow, BS is now saying Clinton is not qualified to be president.at his rally. tape coming up…
Corner Stone
@marduk:
So, you’ve just been dismissed as having anything actually electorally relevant to say. Nicely done.
Give you another shot. Do you want to take a guess at what “electoral” group is *actually* the difference between winning and losing the general?
Gin & Tonic
@marduk:
[citation needed]
Steve in the ATL
@marduk: What exactly is the overlap between hippies and the under 35 crowd? The Venn diagram in my head shows two circles whose only overlap is Bennington students.
Immanentize
@Roger Moore: Das mechanical keyboards are fab but expensive. My 14 yo son (Proto gamer) has an Azio mechanical back-lit that is fabulous but less (but not cheap). Really fabulous. amazon.com/Azio-Backlit-Mechanical-Keyboard-MGK1/dp/B00OBA6QYY
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: One bumps into a few in Madison.
RaflW
@Percysowner: My guess is, Sullivan needs money, so he’s groping for the grift like all the other consters.
Tripod
@Davis X. Machina:
His revolution is the industrial revolution…
Davebo
@Corner Stone:
Vegans?
PatrickG
@Davebo: I laughed. :)
Steeplejack
@Gin & Tonic:
You can get a “modern” TrackPoint keyboard from Lenovo. Also available at Amazon.
I haven’t used one, so I don’t know how it compares to the IBM original, but in my experience Lenovo has done a pretty good job of maintaining the IBM quality. (I love the keyboard on my Lenovo notebook.)
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Which has a TrackPoint.
mclaren
Great response by Hillary. This suggests how easily Hillary will blow away either Trump or Cruz if she’s the nominee.
mclaren
@Corner Stone:
Huh???
Sample of Billmon’s tweets:
[in response to the Panama data leak]
Sounds like solid reasonable progressive stuff to me.
and:
Once again, sounds like good solid progressive hard-hitting fact-finding.
How has Billmon “gone all the way off the GD rails”?
How is Billmon “like a reborn version of Cole’s CDS but with a zealotry that only the holy, pure and rebirthed can possess”?
He’s slamming Trump hard with uncomfortable facts and beating up rich tax-evading CEOs with a spiked baseball bat. Sounds like the good ole Billmon we all know and love…
different-church-lady
@Davebo: No, silly: organic farmers.
policomic
You’ve seriously never seen her do this before? I mean, greet a question she doesn’t want to answer with dismissive cackling? Jimmy Kimmel did a compilation of it:
Sondra
@Linnaeus:
Ha! Me too…and she does this really well. It is maybe the ultimate put down done in the nicest possible way: aimed at the question and at the questioner both at the same time.
St. A
@policomic: Sexist much re: “cackling”?