Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican's spokesman has specifically said the Pope did NOT invite Sanders and there is NO meeting scheduled.
— Ale (@aliasvaughn) April 8, 2016
Okay, Sen. Sanders has been in politics for more than fifteen minutes, it’s not like he’s gonna turn down an audience with the Pope. But maybe he should’ve checked the small print a little more carefully before people started comparing him to Kim Davis. Per Bloomberg Politics:
Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders’s plan to attend a Vatican-sponsored conference put him in the middle of a diplomatic row as a senior Vatican official accused the senator of showing “monumental discourtesy” in angling for an invitation that puts a political cast on the gathering.
Sanders, whose foreign policy experience is under attack by competitor Hillary Clinton, said Friday he was “very excited” to have been invited to the conference on economic and social issues hosted by a pontifical academy in Rome on April 15. It will put him at the seat of the Roman Catholic Church four days before the New York primary.
It has also inserted Sanders into a dispute among Vatican officials. The president of the academy said Friday that Sanders didn’t follow proper protocol — he failed to contact her office — and that his presence threatens to make the event political. The academy’s chancellor said he arranged the invitation and defended the Vermont senator.
“Sanders made the first move, for the obvious reasons,” Margaret Archer, president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the conference, said in a telephone interview. “He may be going for the Catholic vote but this is not the Catholic vote and he should remember that and act accordingly — not that he will.”…
[Campaign manager Jeff] Weaver said on Bloomberg Television’s “With All Due Respect” Friday that Sanders has “great affinity” for the pope and his message on the moral economy, adding that he has no intention of canceling the trip to continue campaigning in New York, which will be a pivotal contest in the Democratic race.“Some things are more important than politics,” Weaver said. “When you get invited by the Vatican, I think you go.”
The office of the pope moved to distance the pontiff from the visit. Father Federico Lombardi, the Pope’s spokesman, said Sanders had been invited “not by the pope but by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences.” Lombardi told the Italian news agency Ansa: “For the moment there is no expectation that there will also be a meeting with the pope.”…
So it looks like the pundits on social media are settling on a “not well served by his advisers” narrative. (Fingers are being pointed at Jeffrey Sachs, for reasons.) Ever since the NYTimes article where said advisers got a (perhaps premature) chance to blame each other for the campaign’s “early missteps”, it’s been mooted that Tad “Grifter” Devine and Jeff “Comic-Book Proprietor” Weaver are keeping an eye on the emergency exits just in case. (It’d been more chivalrous not to settle on castigating Jane Sanders for her foolish quibbling about his quote-unquote Senate job, but then, she’s been married long enough to have no illusions about the BernieBros, amateur or professional.)
The Vatican, after all, has its own status as a city-state to consider. The Holy See is certainly well aware of how the Kim Davis kerfuffle — not to mention the Repubs’ attempt to make Netanyahu their sock puppet last year — did not go over quite as planned. (I hadn’t been aware that Snopes.com had a ‘FALSE: Pope Francis endorses Sanders‘ entry, but they’ve dutifully updated it now!)
If you think Pope Francis invited Sanders to the Vatican, you should insist Bernie stay in Rome until he gets a meeting.
— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) April 8, 2016
@algiordano I don't think Sanders will be going to Rome. The cancellation will be quiet, but it's coming.
— R.S. Martin (@RSMwriter) April 9, 2016
"Oops. We meant Rome, New York, in Oneida County…" https://t.co/LBbO9006pl
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) April 9, 2016
@AlGiordano @birlik54 @aliasvaughn Don't worry, Jeff Weaver's got it covered. pic.twitter.com/iJ25rU5BQ5
— Miss Sneaky Squirrel (@missneakysqurl) April 9, 2016
Steeplejack
I made sure to get up here tout de suite. Having said that, I have nothing to say.
ETA: No word on whether Sanders is going to meet with Father Guido Sarducci.
Matt
I have a feeling Bernie will end up meeting the Pope…I also think that I don’t care…I like the Pope, but I’m glad I’m not Catholic and have to listen to some guy who I didn’t elect try to tell me how to run my life.
Ruckus
A political move to a conference at the Vatican? A audience with the Pope, sure, but a conference? I think this is a political trick that will not serve him well. Too many missteps, who invited whom, when, etc. I think the wheels are coming off the train here. Sanders has some great overall ideas. But this looks like Clinton in 08, possibly a decent candidate with a lousy run for the office. It’s obvious that a lot of people like what he’s selling, but myself I feel like I’ve gone back in time 200 yrs and I’m standing behind a covered wagon listening to some guy trying to sell me a magic elixir.
ecomcon
Anne Laurie,
This story is much ado about nothing and you’re a tool for posting about it.
Jewish Steel
@Ruckus:
I feel similarly.
Matt
@ecomcon: agree that it’s nothing…disagree that she is a tool….this post is just written through Clinton-colored glasses….go to Daily Kos for a minute….everything is parsed to the most minor of detail…I’m a Bernie supporter….but I just don’t care about the arguments people make anymore for him or against him….is anyone swayed at this point by something online? I feel like anyone writing on this blog or Daily Kos probably has a hard and fast belief, or more likely, they like both people and are just waiting for one to win it….
uest
@Ruckus: It’s gotten almost creepy how much the Sanders campaign is resembling Hillary’s 2008 campaign at this point, from prizing “momentum” over delegate math to the PUMA-like rage of the diehard supporters to crazy superdelegate schemes at the convention. And of course you have Devine and Weaver fighting for the title of Mark Penn-wannabe (personally, I give it to Weaver given his propensity for idiotic comments).
Ruckus
@ecomcon:
Then why are you bothering to waste electrons viewing or commenting?
Bored?
Haven’t been getting any lately?
BillinGlendaleCA
@srv: I believe that’s what the Republican Party is saying about Trump(as they try their hardest to give the Granny Starver the nomination).
trollhattan
Admit I stopped paying mind to Bernie’s campaign a couple months ago. Hillary will be the nominee and that’s coincientally the best way to crush the Republicans in November. That’s all I care about, especially since she might just take the Senate along for the ride.
Ran across this documentary on the making of “Dr. Strangelove.” Film fans will find much to enjoy. Strangelove has a permanent spot in my top 10 film list.
inventor
….and the Bern Wagon goes careening into a ditch; it’s axles broken by the overload of bullshit.
Is his Senate staff-work this incompetent?
Anne Laurie
@ecomcon: I grew up in the Catholic Church, so I find the Sanders’ campaign serial misunderstandings here both entertaining & hard to fathom. Tadd Devine says he’s a Roman Catholic, so if Sachs & Weaver didn’t know better, why didn’t he tell them to shut up sooner?
Ruckus
@uest:
I’m going with he didn’t really expect to get this far and had to build an organization in his garage over a weekend and Devine and Weaver were who were available on short notice. It has not served him well. And yet he sure is getting a fair amount of attention so there must be a reasonable need for economic/tax reform. And of course there is. Clinton in 08 had a name and that led to the standard democratic gadflies like Penn. And that didn’t serve her well either.
Mnemosyne
It would be impossible for me to give less of a shit about this story than I do.
Splitting Image
@trollhattan:
Ditto. Apart from the possibility of hijinks at the Republican convention, the most interesting political story for the last month or so has been the question of Merrick Garland’s possible confirmation. Sanders can’t get the delegates to catch up with Clinton, and proportional allocation means that the Democratic frontrunner can’t really put away a rival until late in the campaign. Not much to do there but wait, and of course vote if your state still has a primary on the calendar. In the meantime there is gardening to do.
Ella inNew Mexico
@ecomcon: Forgive her for she knows not…how not… to resist.
Tom Q
This series of tweets strikes me as the most believable version of what went on:
https://storify.com/Cajsa/sanders-and-the-vatican-story
Ruckus
@uest:
There is a side of Sanders crew that I haven’t seen anywhere and that is one or more of them may think that Toby Ziegler was a story written about them. Loser political candidate staff who takes an almost unknown to the White House. They forget that it was a TV show and that the candidate was given a better CV and was an actor who can take numerous takes to get a scene right.
AnotherBruce
@uest: I agree, wasn’t Weaver doubling down on the “unqualified” stuff at the same time that Sanders was walking it back? I don’t think this guy is helping Bernie at all. It’s making me sad that Bernie is tripping like this. I’ve long admired the guy and I don’t want to see him go down in flames.
Goblue72
We realize you are so in the bag for Clinton that you won’t see daylight till Christmas, but jeez – stop embarrassing yourself.
cbear
@Mnemosyne:
Well done. Your comment was much more entertaining than the post you commented on.
ETA/ Please stop writing stuff I agree with–it’s very disconcerting.
Adrian Lesher
NotMax
Ideal place to stock up on the best Christian baby blood before Passover.
The domestic stuff can be so bland.
seaboogie
Oh, but it’s weird and it’s wonderful, and Bernie – he’s really keen…
Mnemosyne
@cbear:
Election seasons are like that — even mclaren has been making sense lately. Don’t worry, we’ll all be back to normal by November.
gf120581
@AnotherBruce: Weaver is stupid and he has a big mouth. Bad combination. I tend to agree with those (Josh Marshall is one) who argue that he’s the biggest source of negativity in the Sanders camp. Tad Devine’s a proud mercenary who doesn’t give a shit as long as there’s a big paycheck involved for him, but Weaver seems as bonkers about Sanders as any of his cult-like diehard supporters and he’s edging close to “burn the whole fucking place down if my guy doesn’t get it” mode.
eemom
I just remember that when I was in high school 800 years ago, learning about European history, I thought it was hilariously appropriate that papal pronouncements were called “bulls.”
Anne Laurie
@eemom:
So did the Dominican nuns teaching us parochial students, TBH!
seaboogie
@ecomcon:
I think that the last time I heard that level of discourse, I was in the seventh grade.
Ruckus
@eemom:
Wow, I thought I was in high school a long time ago and it’s only been 400 yrs.
It’s nice that they weren’t misnamed.
gwangung
Hmph. More amateur hour campaigning.
Sorry, but the man behind the current is even less of a professional than the great and powerful Oz….I would think most Sanders supporter would be a little embarassed about this….
SectionH
I guess I’m ok that Pope Francis may have allotted more energy to his bodyguards of many types than some of his social secretaries. Although I do recollect noticing that the dude responsible for the Kim Davis embarrassment actually got recalled to Italy, and fired. I guess they had to give him some other job. I hope it was cleaning the toilets at San Pietro in Rome.
magurakurin
@Tom Q: thanks for that, very informative.
Cat48
Well, everytime he screws up, he demands an apology from the Clinton Campaign. Some how it will b her fault. Sorta funny though.
Mike J
Hoorah, I’m back. Successfully upgraded my computer to Win10. I’d done for other people before, but it was nice to come safely out the other side with my own computer.
MS certainly do hide the options for changing the defaults though.
VFX Lurker
@Tom Q: Thank you for posting that.
@Mnemosyne – I guess no one else was in the room where it happened.
different-church-lady
The Pope as a Rorschach test. Interesting…
AnotherBruce
@gf120581: Obviously part of that is on Bernie. At some point he has to cut that dog loose. Hillary learned from her mistakes. But the problem for Bernie is that he knows he doesn’t have a second go around because of his age. At any rate, I really do want Bernie to do the right thing. In the end, I think he will whether he wins or loses the nomination.
SectionH
@Mike J: Good for you. Upgrades always worry me, no matter what computer, OS, etc. I ran the worst “Donated-Computer Network” Ever, sadly there was no prize, for a non-profit I worked for (all Windows machines of astonishing, but different, awfulness) and frankly, if I never ever have to deal with a Windows machine again ever ever, that’s a start. But the Mac side ain’t all that great either, esp. for phones.
tastytone
Kim Davis, Bernie Sanders…folks wanna get on those Pope coattails. Er…robes. Pope tails.
different-church-lady
BTW: that’s gotta be the most tortured musical pun we’ve ever seen on BJ.
Mike J
@SectionH: I’ve got a linux server upgrade coming soon that I’m not looking forward to. I use mint and they really don’t like in place upgrades, so it means getting firewall rules and web and app severs installed and configs copied over. Just a pain in the ass for something that should be straightforward.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Maybe the Vatican can get Sanders to stop hiding his tax returns and assets.
SectionH
@Mike J:
“a pain in the ass for something that should be straightforward”
Fuckin’ eh!
Darkrose
I’m going to bed a happy woman. Giants were being no-hit through 7 innings by a Dodgers rookie in his first major league start; Dodgers up 2-0. Then in the bottom of the eighth he gave up a walk; since he’s just coming off Tommy John’s surgery and had hit his 100-pitch limit, the manager pulled him. I’ve never heard Giants and Dodgers fans united in booing a manager for taking a pitcher out before.
The next hitter was a Giants rookie, the backup catcher in tonight to give Buster Posey a rest. He’s a decent defensive catcher, not known for his bat…and he drops a mistake pitch into the left field stands for a two-run blast to tie the game and give the G-men their first hit. They eventually won in the tenth, with rain coming down, on a walk off homer.
And to top it off, after the game we learned that my favorite current Giant has signed an extension to keep him with the team through 2021.
BillinGlendaleCA
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Now, let’s be fair; he just can’t find his tax returns.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike J: There’s an upgrade to Mint? I really like Mint, but they tend to lag a bit(must be related to Samsung).
Mike J
@BillinGlendaleCA: No, I lag more than they do. I’m a couple of releases behind. Still getting updates, but feel like I should move up.
Mike J
@Mike J: Argh. First annoyance up the win10 upgrade. ssh-ing into the server, doesn’t like my key any more. Gonna have to actually type a password to get in and fix everything.
ericblair
I organize international meetings as part of my job. I don’t know WTF Sanders is thinking. Either he elbowed his way into this conference, or he’s a tool in an internal Vatican political game, and now the organizer has a foreign legislator (with special security requirements) pencilled in at the last minute without her knowledge and she’s publicly pissed. It doesn’t seem he contacted the US Embassy at the Vatican about it, because usually the country’s mission can quietly smooth out a lot of feathers or at least advise him to back out if it turns out to be a bad idea.
So now he’s off to Rome (commercial in coach, I guess?), pretty much incommunicado before a critical vote. These quick across-the-pond trips are exhausting and disorienting, and he’s no spring chicken. This seems to be a really bad use of his limited time. I don’t think this is any scandal, just, really, WTF is he thinking.
SectionH
@SectionH: I don’t do much with linux tbh beyond the basic command lines I used to deal with our website. I worry more about how Photoshop works for me from day to day.
That’s not true. I don’t worry about PS. I worry about my old Epson wide carriage 2200 not feeding anything into it. That’s happening all the time.
Also, sadly, this MBP is the worst Apple machine I’ve ever bought.
Yeah, machine. Because my kid’s team won a nationwide ACM computer competition back then. You would have been impressed with the college offers those kids got. (Yes, he did get his CS degree, eventually.) It’s late: I can brag.
Betty Cracker
What did Sanders do wrong? From the Bloomberg story, it sounds like he got an invitation from one academy official (the chancellor) and accepted it, and now the president of that organization is huffing and puffing, whereas the chancellor is defending Sanders. Sounds more like he got caught in a petty little Vatican turf war than genuinely made a blunder to me.
MattF
Just to note that Tom Perez was getting some positive vibrations in a previous thread and I’m all in favor of that. Perez is a local, he was on the Montgomery County Council 2002 to 2006 (our very local ‘legislature’)– and pretty much everyone thinks he’s terrriffffic.
SectionH
@Betty Cracker: I guess the petty little V.T.W. goes at least back to the Kim Davis stupidity, and the fact that the man responsible for that was in fact recalled to the Vatican.
Quite possibly not Bernie’s fault. Possibly a demonstration that the US Catholics are much more reactionary that at least the current Pope.
different-church-lady
I have no idea why the Pope wouldn’t want to meet with Sanders; he’s the closest thing we’ve got to Jesus in this cycle.
Yellowdog
@Betty Cracker: The invitation didn’t come out of the blue. Some guy named Sachs contacted the Chancellor to suggest the invitation. I think he (the Chancellor) will lose his job for getting the Vatican embroiled in another countries politics. I think Sanders was clueless about machinations and the nature of the meeting. But clueless is not a good quality in a candidate.
magurakurin
@Betty Cracker: Judging from his demeanor on The View, Sanders believed he was going to go see the Pope. I think you are asking the wrong question. What did Weaver or Devine do wrong? They ginned this up, told Bernie he was going to meet the Pope and wound him up again. If the Pope had truly invited Sanders to have an audience, hell, yeah, he almost has to go. But that’s not even remotely close to what happened. He got invited at the last minute to a very low level and fairly unimportant conference and he decided to go attend as “other participant” on the eve of what is probably his last chance to become President of the United States. If he doesn’t win New York by at least 10% he really has no chance left whatsoever. How attending such an insignificant academic conference of about 25 people in Rome is going to help him win votes in New York is truly beyond my ken. So, what did Sanders do wrong? He hired Tad Devine and Jeff Weaver that’s what he did wrong.
different-church-lady
@Yellowdog: Diplomatically clueless is not a good quality in a president, that’s for sure.
magurakurin
@different-church-lady: I think it might be worse. I’m starting to think Bernie isn’t all there.
BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady: Now that’s not true, George W. Bush was diplomatically clueless(OK, just clueless) and that worked out OK, right?
Anne Laurie
@Yellowdog: ‘Some guy named Sachs’ is the man responsible for enforcing “shock therapy” economics on a lot of developing countries. There are many people who consider him a genius and possibly a saint… and almost as many, including a lot of Russians and Russophiles, who rank him not that far behind Stalin in the murder-by-ideology rankings. If you read much about him, you can understand why he’s a big fan of Bernie Sanders; why Bernie Sanders’ advisers are willing to let a guy with such a checkered record front for them is a different question!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Anne Laurie: Come on AL, Sachs is a regular on Morning Joe; he’s gota be a true genius.
SectionH
@Anne Laurie: @BillinGlendaleCA: I guess Yellowdog and I share not knowing from That Sachs.
Y’know, the more I read about the appalling assholes who’ve all but wrecked this imperfect but working on it country, the angrier I get.
El Tiburon
Balloon Juice – the Fox News of the Democratic primary.
You have gone from amusing to disgusting.
I look forward to upgrading your rating to the Breitbart of the primary.
OzarkHillbilly
@magurakurin: In my opinion, Bernie is all there. With a laser like focus on the economic inequalities inherent in our present system. This is a strength and a weakness. It leaves him with blind spots that people around him try to fill in and sometimes not in Bernie’s best interests.
raven
@El Tiburon: Why don’t go crawl back under the rock you’ve been under for the last few months? Your shit is annoying.
Chyron HR
@El Tiburon:
Whereas when Sanders’ supporters unironically gossip about Hillary’s e-mail server and the Clinton Foundation it’s nothing like Fox News because shut up that’s why.
OzarkHillbilly
@El Tiburon: Pot? Meet Kettle…
different-church-lady
@El Tiburon: I take it you are no longer enjoying our company?
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Cold up there?
BillinGlendaleCA
@El Tiburon: Breitbart is still dead.
BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady: Heh, were the friendliest snarling pack of jackals you’d ever meet.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@OzarkHillbilly: if he has a laser like focus why is he unable to answer basic questions about his issues and proposals
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Got the wood stove going. My wife is a lizard.
SectionH
@David ?”IGMFY”? Koch: Recalibrate! Recslibrate!!
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Yea, it’s brisk here at 41. Had to dig out my lined drawers to venture out.
OzarkHillbilly
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Details details details…. Those are things for others to deal with. Bernie is a ‘big picture’ kind of guy.
Davebo
@Betty Cracker:
Bernie it seems is a victim of horrifically bad staff work. One would think that the staff did, or should have known the particulars of a trip arranged that would take him to Rome in the middle of the primary.
To let him go on national TV and announce he had been “invited by the Pope” was an inexcusable blunder.
It’s meaningless overall but it does show that perhaps Bernie should re-evaluate his own vetting process when it comes to staff before he starts choosing cabinet members. (OK, I joke, we know that’s never going to happen)
Baud
I’ve been invited to engage in a Skype summit with the Dali Lama. Or does the invitation say Dolly Llama?
Anyway, important issues will be discussed.
TylerF
He knows he can’t win and yet he still asks people who can’t really afford it to donate to his cause (him). All of his small dollar donations have been a missed opportunity cost for democrats since at least March 15th if not Super Tuesday.
At least Clinton was burning corporate cash at this point in ’08.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
Perhaps the most annoying way to have to wade through a story is having to read through 359 consecutive tweets. That should be outlawed.
If it was not obvious before it should be very clear now, the Vatican is a snake-pit full of political intrigue, back-biting, double-dealing, private agendas and petty, vicious court games worthy of any dark ages royalty. Like that dreadful hillbilly woman the Sanders campaign got used in their games. I understand the need of politicians to appear to have the Lords blessing and the Vatican certainly has more power to put that sheen on a turd than any other single organization but it surprises me that so few are able to see this crap coming and protect themselves.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: I have to disagree, I think Bernie is that guy who latched onto a good idea once and rode it for years but can’t incorporate new information or modifications to it. That happens to some people and they aren’t always older. And he’s not thoughtful enough to ask some questions about things (like this “invitation”) or to game out consequences of his response. All bad qualities in a President.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: We’re looking at 29 this morning. My cherries are still blooming. As long as there is a light breeze they’ll be OK.
Kathleen
@trollhattan: Thank you! I will reward myself with this after I finish my chores. If Trump or Cruz should get elected, it may be a documentary about our last days on the planet.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@El bufón:
Coming from you that is high praise, thank you for your endorsment
@BillinGlendaleCA:
and choosing pineapples in Hell with Hitler, thank Pasta
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Meh. I left this gem downstairs. Repeating, because I don’t want you to miss my wisdom!!11ONE:
I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:
April 9, 2016 at 6:53 am
@Omnes Omnibus: The Pope was in DC in 9/2015 and Bernie made some remarks about him at the time. Bernie officially had been running for around 5 months at that time.
It probably would have been difficult to meet with him then (too political, not important enough yet). It sounds like he’s not meeting the Pope this time either. It probably would make more sense for Bernie to point people to his 2015 remarks rather than to go there.
This episode sounds to me like it’s little more than the “subway token” thing – a tiny bit of news that is getting blown-up out of proportion. I don’t think it will keep his supporters enthused, and I don’t think it will affect people on the fence. There are downside risks, getting worn out on a short multi-time zone trip, being away from the US media at a critical time, etc., and especially if he really is a pawn in some sort of palace intrigue at the Vatican…
I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens and he appears there by video if at all.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
SectionH
@OzarkHillbilly: You probably didn’t catch my coming out as a Missouran the other night, but I’ve always loved your posts. Mostly because you’re a wise man, and garden, but also because I grew up in St. Louis, and I’m still very fond of that city. It tried so hard to do the right thing, back in the day.
Raven
@OzarkHillbilly: how’s the wheel?
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: In other words, what I said here? @OzarkHillbilly:
Kathleen
@Darkrose: The Reds lost their first game this season – the Pirates beat them 6-5. At one point Reds had bases loaded with no outs but didn’t score. Sigh. It may be another very long season for Reds fans.
OzarkHillbilly
@SectionH:
You have me confused with someone else.
Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian
I predict Bernie will have to kneel in the snow outside the Vatican gates for three days until the Pope gives him his blessing.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: ok, and better than me ;)
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian:
Maybe Bernie could invite the Pope over to his place for matzo and Manischewitz?
satby
The girls and I are outside Chattanooga heading for home. Have to go look at the weather, you guys are scaring me because I don’t like driving in bad weather in the mountains.
Baud
@satby: Definitely check. Stay safe.
SectionH
@OzarkHillbilly: Wise enough to know some true things.
I also kinda know the Ozarks – just had to “teach” fucking autocorrect to spell that, btw – are just about as redneck scary as eastern Kentucky, and north county San Diego, so I know the RW isn’t going away any time soon.
dr. bloor
@different-church-lady:
“I see a power-hungry, wealth-eating Gorgon wearing a Mr. McGoo mask. And a couple of bunnies.”
Kathleen
@satby: Have a safe trip.
OzarkHillbilly
@Raven: Kinda sucky. Still painful. Now wearing a brace which seems to help but is painful to wear. Not sure if the cure isn’t worse than the disease. The Doc said if I was still feeling pain at this point I should come back to see him but it seems to be getting better so I’m going to wait a while longer.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@ericblair: I had a similar reaction.
In my line of work, “Invited Talks” are a big deal. There are zillions of conferences out there begging for attendees, and too many of them are little more than junkets to support the local tourist industry. So some conferences seem to be branching out into sending generic “invited talk” invitation broadcasts to get people to come. It sounds great the first time one gets an invite like that, but when they come every month for conferences all over the world, one gets a bit of a “funny” feeling about them…
It seems like Bernie and/or his team leaped before they looked carefully enough. It’s not a big deal, as long as they step back and carefully consider whether they really want to go there at this time.
Cheers,
Scott.
Raven
Steve Miller rips the rock n roll HOF!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/arts/music/after-his-induction-steve-miller-rips-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: I’ll be in the audience of the new Broadway musical, “Hello Dali”
OzarkHillbilly
@SectionH: My wife would argue with you on that. ;-)
Raven
@OzarkHillbilly: It’s a bitch but try to be patient (says someone who has had TONS of injuries too)!
OzarkHillbilly
@SectionH: I have to say I loved living in STL, with all it’s quirks and inadequacies and even small town ways, there are some great things there. I never would have moved out here if circumstances hadn’t forced me to, and thought then it would only be for a few years. But after almost 15 years, the last 6 of which have been in almost heaven, I can’t imagine living anywhere else. The RWNJs can get a bit tiresome, but with 13 acres of hill and holler to keep them at bay even they are tolerable.
Now I wake up in the mornings and listen to barred owls argue across the ridge tops while I drink my coffee and in the evenings I sit on my front porch and watch the last few rays of sunlight fade from my trees while I sip some wine. Dying here will be a pleasure.
MomSense
Brrr, it’s way too cold and I’m sick of bundling up to go outside.
We are a pretty casual nation but there are places in the world that take protocol seriously. I think it would be hard to find a place more insistent on protocol than the Vatican.
To me this shows that Sanders hasn’t given enough consideration to that whole other plate of diplomatic responsibility that the President as head of state must manage. I mean even group photographs are choreographed.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Ugh – this isn’t good. A couple intruders jumped the WH fence and got near the President (photo)
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@satby: I hope the trip home is safe and enjoyable. Happy trails! (start it ~ 51:37).
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: A couple of birdbrains.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: these lame ducks never learn
satby
@Baud: @Kathleen: Thanks. We have an ambitious day planned, going to try to stop at both the Hermitage Plantation and Mammoth Cave for the tour for wusses. And then home. Long day, and we’re all sick of the car. But with luck, home tonight.
Gindy51
@Betty Cracker: When you have diplomatic savvy, you do not get caught up in those little tiffs… just imagine if he were president and got caught up in a tiff like this between other players. Could be bad news. His crew is not doing him any service by allowing this kind of shit to happen but, bottom line, HE PICKED THEM so he owns it.
satby
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Thanks, Scott. How are you and the family doing? You’ve been in my thoughts.
MomSense
@satby:
Safe travels, Satby.
magurakurin
I don’t know. Did you all watch that clip from The View? He told them he was going to meet the Pope. And he was beaming. He thought he was going to meet the Pope. Someone told him he was going to meet the Pope and he believed it. Either his handlers are really deceitful and Sanders just doesn’t bother to check anything at all, or something else is going on. Either way, it really isn’t a good thing at all. Thank god this will probably all be over in a couple more weeks.
satby
@MomSense: Oh, I drive like a grandma… probably because I am ;p Thanks.
Added: but not slower than 5 over the limit.
OzarkHillbilly
@Raven:
I’ve been hearing a lot of that… And I still don’t like it. :-( The worst** I’ve ever had was the first time I got blood clots: Intermediate ICU, confined to a bed for 6 days, and I felt fine (except for the pain in my leg). Every damn day the docs would come in and ask “Any shortness of breath?” “No!”
Finally I said, “How can I get short of breath? You won’t let me do anything!” and they’re like “With all the clots in your lungs, it’s a miracle you can breath.” Mutter mutter “I still don’t like it!”
** the collapsed lung was far more painful but that made the hospital stay more tolerable
Iowa Old Lady
I can’t make myself read the details of this kerfluffle. Mostly I’m astounded Sanders would leave the campaign trail right now. Though maybe that’s a sign he can do the math and is thinking about how to highlight his message? This pope is interested in how the poor are treated.
@satby: Good to see you. Safe trip.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: This is why he polls so well among single-moms — his open door policy (photo)
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
The White House is going to the birds!
I blame Obama. Dick Cheney would have set up a duck blind and shot them all, along with an innocent bystander in the face.
Baud
@magurakurin:
Yeah, our silly season is bad enough for Americans, but when a foreign state gets embroiled in it, it’s not good.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: Enjoy Mammoth and know that you beat this once upon a time hard core caver there. Drive safe and don’t let the bastids hold you down.
Barbara
@Betty Cracker: yes, sgreed, but who wants to be caught up in the buzzsaw of petty vatican power struggles while you are facing arguably the biggest primary of the season, and that’s apart from having to take two transatlantic flights on the weekend before? It is unlikely that news organizations will have a budget to send someone to Rome to cover the event.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Baud:
See! That comment is why we need ‘like’ buttons here!!
Thanks for the best laught so far
OzarkHillbilly
New Orleans judge orders inmates’ release amid public defense crisis
Seven inmates charged with crimes ranging from murder to aggravated rape may be released because there isn’t adequate funding for their legal representation
dr. bloor
@Raven: Of course Miller, Mr. Principled, decided not to decline admission to a club he never should have gotten a whiff of in the first place.
satby
@Iowa Old Lady: Thanks! @OzarkHillbilly: whoa, really?
OzarkHillbilly
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I hate it when Quackers come proselytizing on a Sunday morn.
ETA or is the Jehovah’s Witnesses who do that? 7th Day Adventists?
SectionH
@OzarkHillbilly: I’ve not got to the OK to die here yet, but I do think I might die happily in some place I don’t live. Possibly because I moved 12 times before I was 12, and we weren’t military. I could do a lot worse than San Diego, though.
Mr S and I gardened a half-acre in the Bluegrass for about 10 years, and a smaller place earlier, and we both miss that a lot. We also spent a few years learning/making a garden in Zone 21 (microclimate srsly southern CA foothills. We get our own Zone things here. Any gardener worth their salt knows where the cold sinks are anyway. ;-> So yeah, gardening.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@satby: We’re doing Ok. We’re sorta stoic and not terribly close, so it’s been pretty quiet. There have been some nice messages from old friends of her that I hope to stay in touch with. I hope you and your sister are holding up Ok. Take care!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@OzarkHillbilly:
Well, maybe this makes up for the large number of innocent people wrongly convicted because they had really crappy pro bono defense teams. Once we lock up all the innocents & turn the guilty loose prisons will be safe places to go.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: Yep.
rikyrah
Good Morning ?, Everyone ?
WarMunchkin
@Betty Cracker: The weirdness of this particular post’s text aside, this is reminiscent of when Sarah Palin got pranked by that random Canadian radio host. It’s not that he did something wrong or evil, it’s just that there wasn’t really that much thought that went into this.
dr. bloor
@rikyrah:
I forget where you stand on these things–is this a thinly-veiled slam at Bernie or Hillary?
Princess
And the pope isn’t even going to be in Rome when Bernie is there. He’s going to Lesbos to meet the Syrian refugees.
Another Holocene Human
@gwangung:
You’d think. But humans are geniuses at doubling down.
Chyron HR
“I wouldn’t say the holy father gave him the bird, but papal decorations? Never a hope!”
Another Holocene Human
@Yellowdog:
His cluelessness and naivite prove that he is the most pure. For it is written: when you discover the most pure, yea, the purity pony, he is The Chosen One who will save us. Acclaim him. Ie ie Bernie ftaghn!
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): The funny thing is they all have pro bono attorneys appointed but no money for their defense expenses, like expert witnesses, investigators, etc etc. It is just a f’n nightmare for all involved. You’d think all those “constitutional conservatives” would be pulling money out of their own pockets to ensure that revered document is something more than wall paper for their bathrooms, wouldn’t you?
Another Holocene Human
@magurakurin:
Subway Token Bernie isn’t all there. (That, or a compulsive liar. You decide.)
OzarkHillbilly
@dr. bloor: It’s a slam on Baud. She hates Baud. ;-)
Another Holocene Human
@Davebo:
Yes. But this has been evident since 2015. Sanders has been unwilling or unable to bring his staff to heel and promote competence. I can’t begin to speculate as to why, although maybe he’s out of practice. Burlington was a long time ago.
Another Holocene Human
@Baud: I follow the teachings of Dolly Parton. Find her in her mountain retreat in the Great Smokies.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
But to miss an opportunity to slam Sanders? Unthinkable!
debbie
@satby:
Safe travels! Hope you got to Disney World.
Another Holocene Human
@debbie: I thought a primary meant we were supposed to evaluate candidates. How can we trust them to run shit if they can’t handle their own campaign?
SectionH
@OzarkHillbilly: It took having an Aussie friend of ours to get us to Mammoth Cave, after… well a very long time of living a couple hours away. We’d been going to ConCave near Park City, yeah that close, for decades. Park Mammoth Resort has its own cave, ffs. I’d even touristed Ozark caves before, and explored one that nowdays would clearly be off limits without a guide at a prvate camp my weird baptist aunt dragged me to. Windermere maybe? Creepy place full of Baptists, but every prospect pleased…
Mammoth Cave is touristed up, but it’s still pretty incredible. Many options to see some of it. There are a couple of “we’ve been caving” kind of tours available. Damn, I’m sure you know all that anyway, but I was all “I’ve been reading geology since I was a kid, it was my science thing in college, I know about Mammoth Cave” – but nah, I hadn’t actually experienced it.
Good Night or Morning more for your time zone.
debbie
@Another Holocene Human:
There’s evaluation and then there’s slamming, deriding, mocking, etc. People might want to think about unintended circumstances and not take any Dem’s future vote for granted. That’s all.
raven
Note to self, if you ask people if they want something from the Masters don’t expect them to give you the $ for it!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@debbie:
People might want to consider the consequences of a Republican administration, and stop being a petulant fucking whiny ass titty baby.
ETA: Sanders can’t seem to stop anyone on his staff, or his wife, from undermining him. Why won’t he release his taxes?
OzarkHillbilly
@SectionH: For me, the main reason I want to go is Steven Bishop. His is an incredible story, and to walk down some of the passages he was the first to explore would be very meaningful. I have friends who survey there once or twice a year and they say they are still finding his initials in places that are off the map.
Barbara
@Another Holocene Human: Maybe because he has won a lot more than he thought he would he gave them more latitude than he should have?
different-church-lady
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
In the future, movies and TV shows will be provided by Tweet-only.
dr. bloor
@raven: Give everyone one of those pimiento cheese sandwiches. Only a buck and a half, and they’ll never ask you for anything ever again.
debbie
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
All I’m saying is you’re going to need every “petulant fucking whiny ass titty baby” voters in November. Didn’t your mom teach you to treat others like you’d want them to treat you?
debbie
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Kinda like Bill, no?
Off to do the laundry that won’t learn to do itself.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@debbie:
Then stop being a whiny ass titty baby. Not one Hillary supporter here has threatened to stay home in November, so you might want to consider that in your passive aggressive treatment of others.
raven
@dr. bloor: And the $70 shirt?
different-church-lady
@raven: You’re lucky they didn’t ask for the jacket.
Chris
@Matt:
LOL. 95% of us only listen to him when he’s telling us what we already want to hear, anyway.
(Please don’t think I’m excluding myself from that number).
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Heh. A universal truth.
Lurking Canadian
@Anne Laurie: When you learn that Luther was excommunicated by a bull, it sounds way more exciting than what actually happened.
Chyron HR
@debbie:
Whereas Sanders supporters are apparently free to talk as much shit as they want without worrying about having to get votes in the general election, because… um… uh… HE’S TOTALLY WINNING THIS, GUYS! DON’T STOP SENDING CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS!
RedDirtGirl
@trollhattan: Just watched it! Thanks for the recommendation!
debbie
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
@Chyron HR:
Okay, I am not a Berniebro, or whatever you’re calling them now. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think the posts I’ve been seeing here could as easily be seen over at Althouse. I thought you all were better than that.
Kathleen
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Were the ducks lame?
Kathleen
@satby: Please keep BJ posted when you can. And enjoy the trip. Eastern Kentucky can be beautiful.
sparrow
@ericblair: What’s amazing is that no one considers a really basic motivation here: that he really, really wants to spread his message to a much bigger audience than he would have dreamed of getting a year ago.
I hate this part of the election, where everyone leaves their goddamned sanity and basic humanity behind.
SiubhanDuinne
Hmm. My response to Trollhattan simply disappeared POOF.
This is a test.
sparrow
@Davebo: @Another Holocene Human:
Yes, how can Sanders recover from his devastating string of wins. What incompetence to be winning states 70-30 when no one knew who you were 5 months ago!
SiubhanDuinne
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
POTUS has No More Ducks To Give.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@debbie:
Deny that there are Berniebros – check
If there are Berniebros, I’m not one – check
Use right wing bullshit against Clinton – check
Gets pushback, whines, threatens to stay home in November – check
Dismisses the math and the popular vote numbers – check
Indulges in self-righteousness, passive aggression and projection – check
Sanders supporter? – check
Tripod
@debbie:
Boo hoo hoo.
Go post a GBCW over at dailykos. Nobody here gives a shit.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne: win.
Ken
So if Sanders goes on this trip it won’t exactly be a meeting with the Pope (because the Pope won’t even be in the city at the time); it’s more like sitting in a windowless conference room with 15 other people watching PowerPoint presentations on economics for three days?
opiejeanne
@Ken: Doesn’t that sound appealing, especially with the added bonus of jet lag?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Ken:
It’s like tripping and falling over your own shoelaces, getting up, and loudly proclaiming that you meant to do it.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian: Congrats on the Henry 4th HRE joke.
Mike
False.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0X5257
AxelFoley
@Princess:
Disappointed in Balloon Juice for this missed snark/joke opportunity.
Bob
@ecomcon: Absolutely. But Ms. Laurie never misses an opportunity to take a swipe at [email protected]ecomcon:
kc
This is really shameful of you, Anne Laurie: That story was discredited well before you posted this. See here.
What can we expect next from you, a post criticizing Sanders for eating pizza with a fork?
kc
@Bob:
Even if she has to rely on a debunked story to do it.
Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian
@Cheryl from Maryland: Thanks. I have a million of ’em.
gwangung
The Great and Powerful Sanders has a lot of thin skinned followers.
His foe has been marinating in right wing hate juice for decades. Sanders followers need to up their game; this is the lightest foretaste to come if he wins the nomination.
Ken
@AxelFoley: What, something like: “Going to Lesbos to meet the Syrian refugees” must be the European version of “Hiking the Appalachian Trail”? Or do you think it needs to use the Lesbos angle more?
AxelFoley
@Ken: Definitely the Lesbos angle. The Pope going to Lesbos? It’s ripe with jokes. I can’t think of any right now, but it’s there.
Ken
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Oh, I wouldn’t go that far. It looks like Sanders was invited to the conference by the Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy, but the President of the Academy doesn’t like the way it was done – gee, the Vatican has internal politics, hooda thunk. So no particular faux pas by Sanders or his staff, except perhaps some clumsy messaging.
Uncle Cosmo
@Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian: Should we call it his “going to Canasta” moment? A few melds short of a full double-deck?
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Is that Mallard Fillmore on the (far) right? RUN, BARACK, RUN!
trnc
@Mnemosyne: Exactly. Largely political blogs should totally stay away from stories about failed political maneuvering.
/snark
Seriously, it sounds like Bernie is pretty much caught in the middle of this through no particular wrongdoing of his own, but it’s a pretty epic screwup and he should loudly and clearly disassociate himself from whichever idiots he determines made this shitshow happen.
different-church-lady
@Chyron HR:
To be fair, what else do you expect a campaign manager to say?
different-church-lady
@sparrow:
“Hey guys, we totally rocked that last five minutes of the third quarter when their starters were on the bench! We got this locked up!”
burnspbesq
The optics of Sanders appearing with Morales and Correa would be toxic, except that there is no reason to believe that more than a handful of Sanders supporters have a clue who either of them are–and that handful probably mistakenly believes Correa is a hero for protecting Julian Assange from having to answer for his alleged sex crimes.
burnspbesq
@different-church-lady:
It would be pretty funny if Sanders were to win every remaining primary 51-49, and his supporters were to wake up the morning after California to learn that Clinton had clinched the nomination.
msdc
@Ken:
And accepting an invitation to take a transatlantic trip the weekend before a crucial primary so he can have the honor of not being in the same country as the Pope. But other than that…
Chyron HR
@different-church-lady:
In this case, “Man, I’m not very good at this. I think I’ll start a car wash instead.”
ruemara
@Matt: He won’t, since the Pope is in Greece during this conferences. Perhaps another time.
Sanders’ underpants gnome theories of government aside, I’m pissed on his behalf for Devine, Weaver and Sachs. This was unnecessary and stupid. He’s also behind in NY, if he was going to abandon it, shouldn’t he be working CA, where he’s closer?
ruemara
@Betty Cracker: because the Vatican is a political entity and it does not wish to be seen as endorsing a candidate. There’s a whole level of diplomatic procedure and protocol in dealing with the Vatican as a sovereign entity. If you do it wrong, it means friction between the US and a powerful religious nation. Very unnecessary. It is also not an invite extended correctly, it was done by a Sanders ally, which is pissing off the Vatican officials even further. They want no part in this and I’ve already seen promotion of this as the Pope endorsing Sanders.
tastytone
@Ken:
Lets swap some names. Declaring on national TV, “(President Obama) has personally asked me to come meet with him!” as opposed to, “I’ve been invited to DC to attend a (Presidential) Academy of Social Sciences conference”. Not the same by a long shot. Liberal Catholics LOVE this Pope. Hell, meeting with any Pope has cache.
Emma
@ruemara: What I am wondering is this: didn’t the idiot who seems to have promoted this noticed what happened when an actual member of the Church tried to blindside the Pope? Did he really think he could co-opt the Vatican just like that? Francisco takes no crap from anyone who tries an end run around him.
ruemara
@Emma: they think the niceness equals stupid. It doesn’t matter if someone else did something and got slapped for it, they’re always much smarter than that other guy and they’re sure the risk is worth it. Despite the fanhood pretending it didn’t happen, Sanders now looks foolish as well as his supporters caping about saying that the Pope has invited Sanders to speak at the Vatican. They’re to ying to replicate Obama’s ’08 run, including his speech abroad. What they’re failing to understand is Obama and his chosen team were much smarter, more tactical and simply better than every last facet of the Sanders campaign, up to and including the candidate. And it chaps their ass.
Miss Bianca
@Anne Laurie: *that* Sachs was behind this??
Just Some Fuckhead
Really shoddy post with a perfect accompaniment of comments from Balloon Juice’s shit-flinging monkeys.
Aimai
@magurakurin: this sounds about right.
Cacti
A true credit to Bernie’s foreign policy chops, that he can create a diplomatic incident with the frickin’ Vatican.
Aimai
@kc: @debbie: if sanders had a high probablity of being the nominee id keep my mouth shut about his deficiencues because im a team player snd i would not like to for anything to depress the vote. Why dont the bernie supporters take the same attitude towards clinton? Im tired of seeing the probable nominee called everything from a warmonger to a racist and a whore.
Bob In Portland
@Just Some Fuckhead: I’ve been waiting for the post on how Debbie Wasserman Schultz laundered money through 33 state parties in order for Hillary’s millionaire and billionaire supporters to circumvent campaign limits. You know, the one where that Sri Lankan lobbyist got six and a half million to “lobby” the US government and a whole lot of that ended up taking a trip to Montana where it was washed, returned to the DNC and then one of Hill’s PACs. Maybe I missed it. Was it in the post under the picture of the dog?
Aimai
@kc: your link is broken.
smintheus
Even by the standards of your normal Clinton-fluffing, Annie, this is low. How do you manage to avoid acknowledging (apart from a single vague sentence) that Archer’s boss has flat out contradicted her and released a letter proving that he invited Sanders and that Archer knew he had done so? And that he has also chastised Archer for sniping at Sanders?
Emma
@smintheus: So? It doesn’t change the fact that Sanders went on a very public venue and told everyone the Pope had invited him to a conference and meet-and-greet. Which turned out to force a denial from the Vatican spokesman. Whoever organized this assumed that Americans were too stupid to distinguish between an official invite from the Pope and a invite from the head of one of the many scholarly institutes in the Vatican. Sorry. This was an unnecessary own-goal.
dogwood
@ruemara:
Obama was running to govern the nation, fully realizing the complexity of the job. His trip to Europe and the Mideast was widely criticized at the time, but he and his staff pulled it off without a hitch. Romney couldn’t duplicate Obama, and his staff weren’t incompetent. Bernie is running to break up the banks, prosecute Wall Street moguls, and change health care. The job is much bigger than that.
smintheus
@Emma: Why reference Archer’s hatchet job at all if it has been proven to be dishonest, much less dwell at length on it?
Neither of us knows exactly what Sanders was told by whom about the nature of this invitation. All we know is that Archer is lying about him.
Emma
@smintheus: The freaking OFFICIAL Vatican spokesman issued a denial. What the hell else do you want. Sanders’ own people screwed him over.
burnspbesq
@smintheus:
You’ve got the reporting relationship backwards, dumbass. It was the underling who stepped out of line and went behind the boss’ back.
sherparick
@Anne Laurie: Jeff Sachs has made several very personal Bernie Bro attacks on Hillary and Paul Krugman. I was kind of wondering why? Was it his gig as Morning Joe’s go to “left” economist who could be counted on take shots at Obama, slime HIllary Clinton, call Paul Krugman names, and praise Paul Ryan? Perhaps. But his animosity against Krugman, Stiglitz,and the Clintons goes back to the late nineties when he got caught up shock economics and corruption in Eastern Europe and Russia in the nineties when Russia defaulted in 1997. https://psmag.com/the-not-so-great-professor-jeffrey-sachs-incredible-failure-to-eradicate-poverty-in-africa-711b77ca1b26#.8omqa6bmg
Sachs with this Vatican fiasco has now caused Sanders a huge break in any post Wisconsin break in his momentum. It does not take much for the Theater Critic Style of political reporting to spend several news cycles on gaffs, glitches, and prat falls.
smintheus
@Emma: “Sanders went on a very public venue and told everyone the Pope had invited him to a conference and meet-and-greet”
When did he do that? This is what he said: >>Speaking to reporters in New York later, Sanders said he hoped to meet with the pope. “The pope’s schedule is determined by the Vatican but I would certainly be enthusiastic about that,” he said. “… I think there is a possibility but that has not been scheduled.”<<
smintheus
@burnspbesq: Who the hell are you referring to? Archer is the underling who decided to settle scores with her boss by slagging off Sanders.
Miss Bianca
How dorky am I that I *just* twigged the “Bennie and the Jets” reference? *Super* dorky.
And Jeffrey Sachs doesn’t have a goddamn leg to stand on when it comes to purity: if there is a God, he’s going to have a *lot* of ‘splainin’ to do on his role in the destruction of the Polish and Russian economies…
Heliopause
A “close aide” to the Pope tells Reuters that it was his idea. Furthermore, he calls the official who claimed “discourtesy” a liar.
A Vatican press official says the invitation is not from the pope “but from a Vatican institution.”
Better be careful about trying to mix up the RCC with your American political nontroversy du jour, because those Vatican guys are way more serious about their political backbiting than you wimpy Dems.
Origuy
Sorry, posted in wrong thread.
aimai
@Miss Bianca: I know,right? Jeffrey Sachs is a homeboy,a local Harvard Guy who got caught stealing or helping in the stealing of millions when Russia transitioned from Communism to straight up kleptocracy. Just seeing his name makes me shudder. The thought that he is supporting Bernie is just bizarre. Bernie at least means well. Sachs ought still to be licking toilets for penance for all the harm he and his buddies did.
Mandalay
@smintheus:
Indeed. No doubt she will be creating another OP to apologize for the embarrassing swill she posted here….or not.
I suspect AL is gunning for a job with Huffington Post or Buzzfeed. She’s posting stuff garbage this to burnish her credentials as being unprincipled, incompetent and biased.
sparrow
@different-church-lady: Oh, Hillary is losing now because she’s not really trying? How inspiring your candidate is! /s
In reality, the southern losses will probably doom Sander’s chances, but people forget that 40% of the delegates are still up for grabs. He’ll be down less than 200 after winning Wyoming today. So let’s wait and see, shall we? I think it will be a *very* interesting convention this year.
aimai
@Mandalay: God this is like evrything in Bernie world. People get so caught up in semantic quibbling that they completley miss the forest for the trees. Bernie is leaving to go to an unimportant conference in a nearly defunct theocratic state right before two huge primaries which he needs to win by immense margins to stay competitive. This was stupid whether you think “the Vatican” (an enormously complex entity with many feuding subgroups) invited him or he invited himself. I don’t think Bernie “invited himself” but I don’t think that the phrase means what people are pretending it means. Bernie is not a member of the working group and is not actually working on the issues they will be discussing. He didn’t “invite himself” because he was probably largely unaware of the group or what it was doing. However, he wasn’t exactly invited without prompting, either. Presumably someone who seemed close enough to Bernie–Sachs? –made the invitation happen. In the real world when someone going to a wedding brings another person as their plus one even though the extra person is, technically, invited to the wedding the wedding planners may, indeed, feel like they didn’t really make the invitation happen. This shit happens all the time. Its just at the present moment Bernie’s fans feel the need to puff off his desirability and the Pope seemed like a dream come true. Meanwhile, in the real world, Bernie and his team have gotten him invited to an unimportant meeting in a distant theocratic state at a crucial time in his campaign. Its stupid but not fatal because his campaign is almost dead anyway.
sparrow
@aimai:
Look at the spin on that! You should work for the Clinton campaign. Meanwhile, this is a major story for catholics I know. They’re paying attention.
Gheyduke
@Mnemosyne: not for me. What a load of shit.
eemom
@aimai:
Perfect end to a perfect rant.
I’ve been trying to stay out of the Bernie wars, but I gotta say, if the thing he’s going to is really as it’s been described, this is about as stupid and embarrassing a fuck up as it gets.
Mandalay
@aimai:
You are the one missing the forest for the trees. My post wasn’t even about Sanders. It was about AL knowingly posting a false story smearing Sanders that had been discredited long before she posted her swill. It takes a special blend of malice and stupidity to do what she did.
Emma
All we’ll have to do is wait three weeks. That’s usually how personnel shifts take in the Vatican.
kc
@Mandalay:
Stopped back by to see if AL had updated. Of course not.
PUMAS gotta PUMA.
kc
@gwangung:
This is rich coming from the camp that just had a multi-day pearl-clutching panties-wadded meltdown over the U word.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mandalay: You’re going to spur another 1000 word screed from Aimai about how it’s the rest of the world that’s all fucked up.
AxelFoley
@ruemara:
This. All this.
eemom
@kc:
Like others on those threads, you’re missing the point. The freak out was that Bernie — you know, the other candidate on OUR side? — said something that the ‘tards will try to use against Hillz in the general, NOT that Hillz can’t take the criticism.
Mandalay
@aimai:
You are a moran. Just stop.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Kathleen: No, I was just joking. They’re perfectly fine young couple. The one on the left is female, the one on the right is male.
chopper
@Emma:
exactly. if sanders hadn’t gone on TV and told everyone the pope invited him to meet with him the story wouldn’t be much, but this just makes his campaign look bush league.
Aimai
@sparrow: Sure it would be great if bernie could get an endorsement from the pope. Not seemly for a jewish atheist democratic socialist to suck up to the church but no doubt good politics for bernie the politician. But ehat makes the difference between a good idea and a bad one is the follow through. Bernie is not going to meet with the pope–let alone get an endorsement–he isnt going to get an obama level worshipful crowd in Italy and i very much doubt that those failures will budge the catholic vote significantly.
nutella
What Sanders should have borrowed from Obama’s successful campaign is his speeches: When things got nasty he gave a speech about the topic to demonstrate his grasp of the issues and his thoughtful competence to deal with it. That’s what Sanders should have done to counter the very bad impression he made in the interview transcript, ending the speech with a joke about subway tokens.
Planning to skip off to another continent in the middle of a tough campaign for the primaries in two big states that are his last chance to win is … not a good idea.
Anne Laurie
@Mike: (& all his fellows): Monseigneur Sorondo is not “the Pope”, nor does he speak for the Pope; he’s a leftover from Ratzingers’ days who wants to trip up this new love’n’peace Papa Hippie any way he can. Think of the American cardinal who got Kim Davis an ‘exclusive endorsement’ last fall — or the Dubya-era bureaucrats who have been doing their best to make President Obama’s life a misery for the last seven years.
Senator Sanders, or presumably his aides, got suckered by an underling with an agenda. It was a dumb trick to fall for, and all the flailing around blaming everybody else isn’t making his team look any more competent.
Anne Laurie
@Miss Bianca: Sachs is a major BernieBro — not a big surprise, TBH. Strong ‘progressive social reformist’ convictions, not always best implemented.
Heliopause
@Anne Laurie:
So a closet nazi bishop arranged a conference loaded with leftist politicians in an 11th dimensional attempt to embarrass an unsuspecting Pope.
Anne, please go have a lie down.
mclaren
@nutella:
Evidently you didn’t bother to listen to Sanders’ victory speech in Wyoming. 40 minutes of all the things I’ve been waiting for a politician to say all my life. Race, women’s issues, economics, the environment…it was all there.
But by all means, continue to parrot your mainstream media canards: “Bernie Sanders is a one-issue candidate.”
Ken
@tastytone: Wait, someone on Sanders’ staff (or was it Sanders himself) announced this as an invitation from the Pope, versus from the Pontifical Academy? I had not picked up on that. If that’s the case, it’s a real screw-up.
Barbara O'Brien
Peeps, you’ve been played. In fact, the story that a Vatican official was pissed off at Sanders for violating protocols or inviting himself or fishing for an invitation or whatever had already been debunked by Reuters before this blog post was published yesterday. Try to keep up.
On Friday Reuters spoke to the senior Vatican official who is the chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, who absolutely and clearly denied the reports you are citing here.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-vatican-idUSKCN0X5257
(quote begins)U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders was invited to speak at an April 15 Vatican event by the Vatican, a senior papal official said on Friday, denying a report that Sanders had invited himself.
“I deny that. It was not that way,” Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo told Reuters in a telephone interview while he was traveling in New York. Sorondo, a close aide to Pope Francis, is chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the event.
He said it was his idea to invite Sanders.
A Bloomberg report quoted Margaret Archer, president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, as saying that Sanders had broken with protocol by failing to contact her office first.
“This is not true and she knows it. I invited him with her consensus,” said Sorondo, who is senior to Archer.
An invitation to Sanders dated March 30, which was emailed to Reuters, was signed by Sorondo and also included Archer’s name.(quote ends)
The Monsignor released a copy of the invitation, and it was as he said. There’s more background at The Atlantic. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-heads-to-the-vatican/477471/
Now, why Margaret Archer told Bloomberg News that Sanders had done something wrong I do not know. My guess is that the Bloomberg reporters picked up on some innocent throwaway line and blew it up into a Big Bleeping Deal to make Sanders look bad. Or maybe they thought they’d gotten a big scoop that would please the bosses. We don’t like to think reporters would do things like that, but sometimes they do.
And think about it … who benefits from having a story like this blow up in Sanders’s face? Maybe I’m being paranoid, but it looks like a fix to me.
As to whether Sanders himself bragged about meeting the Pope, I haven’t personally seen that quote. What it appears happened is that sloppy headline writers saw “invitation from the Vatican” and shortened it to “invitation from the Pope,” so that was the first story everyone heard.
Yes, the invitation was from the Vatican. The Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences was established in 1994 by Pope John Paul II. This is one of several academies of the Vatican, with offices in the Casina Pio IV in Vatican City, which also houses the Pontifical Academy of Saint Thomas Aquinas. Officials of PASS are appointed by the Pope. It’s an office of the Vatican.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Barbara O’Brien:
The Vatican, however, said it had nothing to do with the invitation.
Father Federico Lombardi, the Pope’s spokesman told the Italian news agency Ansa that the Academy of Social Sciences invited Sanders, not Pope Francis, and that His Holiness doesn’t plan to give the senator an audience.
Bernie and his supporters are trying to get the word “Vatican” to do a lot of heavy lifting because he has no foreign policy chops.
Barbara O'Brien
@mclaren: Thank you. Hillary Clinton is a great candidate for the comfortable, for people who are doing pretty well in the system we have now. But the system we have now is not sustainable — not economically, not environmentally, and I doubt politically.
I’ve been going to liberal/progressive conventions and other events for years and hearing people sit around and bitch about why can’t we have cool stuff like universal health care and paid family leave and stronger unions and finance and campaign reform and more investment in America and her people, etc., and along comes a guy pushing for that stuff, and a sizable portion of the people I know from the conventions get cold feet and say, oh, but we have to take the safe course and vote for Hillary.
I’m done with them. We have a rare opportunity to get things right in a year in which the Republican Party is imploding, and the Left turns into a pack of weenies.
I also think the younger voters have spoken loudly and clearly and said they want what Sanders is selling. McGovern 1972 is ancient history to them, as it should be. My sense of things is that the Reagan Revolution (which, IMO, really dates to the 1970s, and wasn’t really just about Reagan) has finally run its course, as everything does. The current Republican Party is still dangerous, but they are far from the unified, well-oiled machine they were a decade ago. They’ve entered their last act, which is farce.
And as the Reagan Republican Party passes into history, the Clinton Neoliberal Democratic Party that arose in response to it will seem to be a museum piece soon enough.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Barbara O’Brien:
Check out the clip from The View above – he clearly assents that he’s “meeting with the Pope”. He isn’t, so is he lying or confused?
Barbara O'Brien
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: You’re quoting Margaret Archer, which is from the older report that was debunked. Again, try to keep up. Any report about how Margaret Archer is pissed at Bernie Sanders has been voided by her boss.
Barbara O'Brien
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Okay, I am not able to watch the video. If he said “pope” and not “vatican” that was sloppy.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Barbara O’Brien:
I’m quoting Lombardi, not Archer. Get your head out of Bernie’s ass.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Barbara O’Brien:
Joy said Bernie’s meeting with the Pope, and he says, yup. That’s not sloppy, it’s a flat out lie.
Barbara O'Brien
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: No, you get your head out of Hillary’s ass. The story you linked to was mostly just a re-write of the debunked Bloomberg News story. Lombardi said the invitation had not come from the Pope, but it was the reporter, not Lombardi, who conflated “pope” with “Vatican.” Although colloquially people do often use “pope” and “Vatican” as synonyms, officially they are not. The invitation did not come from the Pope, but it did come from the Vatican.
Do learn to read.
Barbara O'Brien
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: So were you lying when you said the invitation didn’t come from the Vatican, when it did, or were you just confused?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Barbara O’Brien:
You really don’t want to answer my question about whether Bernie was lying or confused about meeting with the Pope, do you? Can’t really blame you.
Cleos
@Emma:
Apparently they had something there.