In comment threads, fellow front-pager Kay and I have occasionally talked up Labor Secretary Tom Perez as a possible VP choice for the 2016 Democratic ticket. When I’ve mentioned Perez to fellow Democrats in meat-space, the typical reaction is, “Tom WHO?” Here’s who:
I wonder if Perez’s appearance on Maher’s show is part of a strategy to get his name out there more as a prelude to a higher profile gig. I hope so. I think he’d be terrific as a VP candidate.
Maher notes that Perez was confirmed for his post with zero Republican votes. Perez says it was because of his prior work as head of the DOJ’s civil rights division, where he opposed red-lining and battled Republican efforts to suppress the vote and persecute immigrants.
Smart, funny, self-deprecating, committed and — the man has all the right enemies. He’d make a fine president, which is why he’d be a great choice for VP.
In other news, congrats to Senator Sanders for winning the Wyoming caucus yesterday: final results were 56% to 44%, per The New York Times. Looks like each candidate picks up seven delegates.
Please feel free to discuss whatever — open thread!
FridayNext
He’s too bald. He’ll never win.
Betty Cracker
@FridayNext: I agree there’s an absurd prejudice against bald guys in the US that could make it harder for one to win the presidency straight up, but didn’t Baldin’ Joe Biden demonstrate that a hair-challenged dude can win as VP?
Felonius Monk
My impression of the current campaign:
The Republicans want to sink all the boats except the yachts.
Bernie wants to sink the yachts while raising the other boats.
Hillary wants to raise all the boats.
Arm The Homeless
As I am sure you’re aware, Betty, our reptilian Guv. put out an attack ad against a single, private citizen who called him out for being a festering asshole.
Is this the future of politics? Powerful people with millions of dollars at their disposal calling out random citizens for making them look like fools? If Floriduh had a functioning political alternative to the Goopers, this shit would have been an impetus for the Dems to metaphorically burn down the Governor’s Mansion.
What a fucking punk
jeffreyw
Eww!
lollipopguild
@Arm The Homeless: Nothing like overdoing it-then probably giving themselves high fives afterwards.
FridayNext
@Betty Cracker:
Joe Biden is Fonzie compared to this guy. The real counter example would be someone like McCain, who’s old man wispiness looks distinguished. This guy is way too young for his hair to be retreating faster than confederates before Sherman.
So, while I like his politics, I think he is too bald to get elected a major national office.
I’d love to be wrong.
Betty Cracker
@Arm The Homeless: I saw that and agree it’s utterly appalling. It shows what a thin-skinned dickhead Scott is, as if we needed further confirmation. I don’t see that becoming a larger trend because no matter what the powerful person digs up on the private citizen, it makes him look like a chump for punching down. Only the tea party assholes will find it appealing.
OzarkHillbilly
@Felonius Monk: Cruz wants to convert all the boats to Fundamental Evangelical Christianity and burn all the heretic boats at the stake.
Mustang Bobby
@Arm The Homeless: After the meet-up in Starbucks, Scott was asked why he didn’t engage with the woman. He said “you can’t talk to people like that” and shrugged it off. Knowing his character, however, I expected this kind of response from his minions.
My comment on Twitter about that new video was something along the lines of “Scott is petty, thin-skinned, and doesn’t know much about P.R. But he is deterred by garlic.”
Ben Cisco
Ok, time for something non-political:
Saw Mrs. Cisco’s side of the family for the first time in over a month. Felt really good getting to see them; the kids were a particular joy to be around. Think I’m starting to get a handle on things again.
Betty Cracker
@FridayNext: So you think a bald VP would sink or create a significant drag on an otherwise viable presidential ticket? I sure hope you’re wrong too!
Arm The Homeless
@lollipopguild: The caliber of chucklefucks in his office is legendary.
The funny part is that many of the entrenched operatives are all from the Bush ranks, and they hate Skeletor mightily, but they are too scared of the blue hairs in the Villages to risk their paychecks.
Gimlet
@Arm The Homeless:
Editorial cartoon with Scott promoting Florida
http://assets.amuniversal.com/43f8acc0713c01331e23005056a9545d
debbie
@Ben Cisco:
Nice for you and for them.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: Republicans all like it just fine. See Christie, Trump, Cruz, Walker, ad infinitum. I really do think this will become the new normal.
Bob In Portland
I would like to see how out of step superdelegates and voters in various states are. For example, the 33 Democratic state parties that laundered money for Clinton’s PACs so that her billionaire friends were able to circumvent the campaign limits.
dr. bloor
He just needs to take a razor to what’s left, go for the Walter White look. Vice President Badass has a nice ring to it.
More aerodynamic as well–wouldn’t create a drag on anything.
Arm The Homeless
@Betty Cracker: @Mustang Bobby:
As soon as I saw the “ad” I told the SO, “I bet Scott wished he had laid his egg sack in her thorax before the video went viral”
Seriously, even the Goopers in the office thought it was radioactive. I will have to ask our PIO, who comes from a long line of Jeb! lackeys, what her thoughts on this particular tactic is. I bet she just walks away.
Ked
I want a Clinton/Obama ticket, dammit. BHO is too young and too special to lose to retirement, and the Veep role would let him stretch his rhetoric a bit more. …though I totally can understand wanting to get away after the last eight years.
debbie
@Gimlet:
With slight adjustments to the faces, that could be any Republican governor.
patrick II
@FridayNext:
He’s too bald. He’ll never win.
He should try a Trump style comb-over. It looks so very dignified on the Donald.
Arm The Homeless
Hmmmm, the overwhelming stink of cheap vodka and cat shit is wafting. Did someone turn on the Bob-Signal?
Ben Cisco
@debbie: Indeed.
Mustang Bobby
We’ve had a lot of bald presidents, most recently Dwight Eisenhower. (Jerry Ford was getting close, but Ike was like a cue ball.)
liberal
@Felonius Monk: Problem with that analogy is that the yachts aren’t yachts; they’re pirate ships.
dr. bloor
@Mustang Bobby: Eh, pre-TV. Contemporary political campaigning pretty much starts with the Kennedy-Nixon debates.
Besides, Ike won that little dustup in the 40’s. Made him very popular.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: Ol’ Joey Hairplugs? (I kid, I kid…)
I’m also in the Perez fan club, and I think what he adds to the ticket with his record on labor and justice issues, and his last name (why dance around it) far outweighs any drag from a low profile or lack of electoral experience (I think he was in the MD state lege?) much less his shiny pate. I didn’t play the video, which token wing-nuts did Maher have on to be allowed to dominate the conversation? One or two? Ann Coulter, Stephen Moore, Reihan Salam? Or did he go off on Muslim bashing and do that work himself. On a scale of good when he’s good, horrible when he’s bad, Maher blows even Tweety out of the water.
Felonius Monk
@Ben Cisco: Good for you. Staying connected is important for all of you. Peace and love.
Mike J
Hillary’s not a man, Bernie is Jewish. Why the fuck do you need a prayer before a sporting event anyway, aside from footraces run on water?
Iowa Old Lady
@Ben Cisco: Good. Hope there are many more moments of joy.
Iowa Old Lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve wondered if there was a celebrity like Trump who could come in on the Democratic side and create chaos. Maher was the one who occurred to me.
OzarkHillbilly
@Mustang Bobby: If Bruce Willis can be a sex symbol, I’m pretty sure Perez can be VP.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
For those out of the loop, I heard this spin this week from a caller on the Thom Hartmann show (turned it off before Harrtman started talking about the book he wrote on the subject): Clinton’s fund-raising and party building for down ticket races is actually “bribery” and further proof of not just her corruption, which is just totes obvs, it also proves that St Bernard of Willsee is actually pure and virtuous in his indifference to any campaign but his own. For any haters who are stupid enough to need further proof of the Perfection of the Blessed One. It was a bridge too far even for Hartmann
Gimlet
Not a great source but interesting thought.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/new-york-superdelegates-largely-back-clinton-sanders-article-1.2581729
Even if Sanders were to win the April 19 New York presidential contest, when a whopping 247 delegates are at stake, every single New York superdelegate reached by the Daily News said they would never back the Vermont senator.
There are 44 superdelegates among New York’s 291 delegates.
Mustang Bobby
@Mike J:
My barber, who is Cuban, is named Jesus. But I don’t think he’s running.
(When fundies ask me if Jesus is my personal savior, I say “No, he’s my personal barber.”)
Baud
Baud! would turn all boats into Love Boats!
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The video is just Maher and Perez.
different-church-lady
My response to “a rising tide lifts all boats” is, “That’s great, as long as you have a boat.”
If you don’t have a boat, a rising tide has the same effect as a flood.
Mike J
@srv:
I’m glad that not every week is Seafair. Hard to keep a spinnaker flying with all the powerboat wake on the way home.
Iowa Old Lady
@Gimlet: That sound emphatic. The NY newspapers are both skeptical of Sanders, and of course, NY elected Clinton to the Senate. We’ll see how it goes.
different-church-lady
Shorter BJ commentariat: “MARGARET!! WHO LET THIS BALD MAN BE ON MY T.V. MACHINE?!?”
Betty Cracker
@Ben Cisco: That’s good to hear.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: Can you promise to bring back Nancy Walker or Martha Raye as a spunky rich widow and my good friend Ricardo Montalban as a down-at-heels playboy who sets out to hunt her fortune but falls in love in spite of himself?
ETA:
“every single delegate reached by the NYDN” seems very carefully vague.
ETA, A: On topic, did Ricardo Montalban wear a wig?
Mike J
@Mustang Bobby: It’s a pity neither Joaquín or Julian Castro is named Jesus. As a veep pick, the name Castro alone would give the Republicans fits, but it would be fun to see what they had to say about a veep named Jesus and how low a share of the Hispanic vote they could get.
MattF
As I’ve mentioned before, Perez started as a local politician here in Montgomery County (on the County Council), and I’ve always been a fan. It’s been reported that he’s often the ‘opening act’ in a Clinton campaign appearance, so her campaign is well aware of his strengths. My guess is that Hill’s people are getting him out there in the public eye– on Maher’s show and elsewhere.
Mike E
@Baud: The deckchair yoga will be exhilarating!
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve not had much use for Hartmann since he started broadcasting from the studios of Kremlin state television.
Gimlet
@Baud:
How do you respond sir to reports of a $600 haircut?
Can you post a selfie so we can see the coiffed masterpiece?
scav
Well, if all boats are lifted, that just might mean there is something in all that global warming sea level rise stuff. Better indeed to sink all those little cheap boats and blame the sinking coastline on their wrecks cluttering the seafloor.
dmsilev
@Mike J: Wonder whether Duck Beard Man will vote for legendarily-pious Donald Trump in the general.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If I could bring him back, my administration would be a combination of KHAAAAAAN! and Fantasy Island. Loved the guy.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Great point. Could be “both of them.”
PsiFighter37
I really do wonder who the VP pick on the Democratic side will be. I know people love Julian Castro, but I read a profile of him as he’s been at HUD, and it seems, more than anything, that he looks great on paper but frankly hasn’t accomplished much of anything – being mayor of San Antonio is a part-time job, and he has simply kept HUD running as is – has no interest in picking up the ball and creating/running with any major initiatives.
Cacti
@Felonius Monk:
Unless the yacht owner likes Bernie, then they get an exemption from being part of teh ebil 1 percent.
Baud
@Gimlet: I actually did get a haircut yesterday. No baldness issues here.
People give me haircuts for free. They say it’s their honor. Who am I to argue?
Bobby Thomson
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: BooMan has a firebagger terrible on his front page who has been flogging that particular hobby horse.
scav
Capt Picard for VP? I’m not sure this baldness nonsense is at all a thing anymore.
Baud
@scav: Agree. Piccard killed it dead.
redshirt
@Ben Cisco: My thoughts are with you, friend.
Cacti
@PsiFighter37:
So, you’re wondering, apart from being the mayor of one of the 10 largest US cities, and the head of a federal agency with 8,400 employees and 32.6 billion dollar budget…what has really done?
Okay then. ;-)
redshirt
@Baud: Aye. No one said a bald man could be a Captain either.
#baldheadsmatter
PurpleGirl
@Ben Cisco: Thanks for checking in with us. That sounds good; I’m glad you had that reaction. Thinking of you often and wishing you well.
different-church-lady
@Baud:
He is… THE MOST INTERESTING CANDIDATE IN THE WORLD.
Bobby Thomson
@Cacti: the proper term is indulgence, I believe.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Betty Cracker: Biden supposedly got plugs/transplants a long, long time ago.
I don’t think hair will matter much this time around. Just as “the taller guy almost always wins” won’t matter as much. Past Performance is Not Necessarily Indicative of Future Results
Cheers,
Scott.
muddy
I think it would look better if he kept the hair he does have shorter.
Tenar Darell
Yesterday was chock full of fun. Not sure today could top it. I might manage to walk around the local reservoir today.
Yesterday I had breakfast with friends, then we went walking in Great Meadows Wildlife Refuge. Got some decent landscapes with the iPhone, including one of those blue skies with clouds reflected in the water.
Then did “fun” shopping like a new Red Sox hat & picked up some fancy loose tea (what? I replaced cigarettes with good tea & coffee & chocolate in 2005).
Then went to see Midnight Special at the multiplex. (That made me happy that a “small SFF” movie like that was in the multiplex). Definitely go see it. Really, it was so much more interesting than what I’ve heard about BvsS. (I’ll eventually go see BvsS because needs big screen to get experience, but my expectations are so low at this point I’ll probably laugh at wrong parts). MS has pretty standard “magic child who needs protection plot,” yet you get caught in the acting- Shannon, Dunst, Edgerton, Driver & Lieberher really great minimalist intensity. More effects than an indie film usually gets, but not plastered all over or tacked on feeling.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Bob In Portland:
You do know how one gets to be a super delegate, right?
Hint, it is not by sucking up to Putin and calling people on random blogs fascists and murderers so you are right out. I assume with the Putin money drying up you found a kindred soul in Karl Rove
Also too: fuck you.
Betty Cracker
@Bobby Thomson: To be fair, that dude was an awful blogger way before he went firebagger. I’ve automatically scrolled past his posts for so long I didn’t even realize he’d gone firebagger until I read it here.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@srv:
Well, for the last 7 years the duck dullard & his GOP friends have been trying to crucify Obama so maybe he is missing something
Mike J
@Tenar Darell:
A few years ago I went through the roster and determined that only five players were older than my Red Sox cap. I haven’t checked yet this year.
redshirt
Is there any point at which business leaders will abandon the Republican party as being bad for business? Because they surely are. I mean, except for a small percentage of traders, who on Wall Street wants to see the US default on their debt?
Here in Maine our wonderful Republican governor LePage has already ended a solar rebate program which caused the leading solar panel installation company to move to NH, and now he’s trying his absolute damnedest to end net metering on solar panel systems. There’s an article in today’s Portland Press Herald about a small solar company who’s weighing layoffs because people are hesitant to get panels installed when net metering might be cancelled shortly.
How is that good for business, Mr. LePage?
I just don’t get it sometimes.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: I agree. The only post of his I ever liked was when he wrote something nice about his daughter going to college.
? Martin
Remember when we all thought a black man couldn’t be elected president? Long arcs bend toward tolerance.
Baud
@redshirt:
I’ve wondered that myself, but the GOP Congress hasn’t chased them away, so who knows?
PurpleGirl
@patrick II: Great snark. It is snark, isn’t it?
redshirt
@Mike J: My Red Sox cap is in bad shape. I’ll be forced to buy a new one shortly.
Like the Sox so far, but I don’t trust the starting pitching yet.
Did you see the video of Pablo’s belt saying “nope!”?
Hal
NY primary is on April 19th and I honestly do not know who I’m voting for yet. I’m honestly leaning Hillary, but I like Bernie too. I feel I’m more pragmatic when it comes to politicians and so a big part of me thinks Sanders is not going to be as strong in the general election as Hillary, who despite her negatives still strikes me as a stronger candidate in some ways that might matter more in an election. I don’t know. I just can’t wait for this primary to end.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Baud:
THATS AWFUL!! We would have to put up with a stream of washed up F list celebrities and bad acting
Baud
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
An improvement from the current situation, wouldn’t you agree?
Aimai
@Bobby Thomson: ive given up on booman. For just this reason.
redshirt
@Baud: I don’t buy any of the “The End of the Republican Party” is nigh talk, as the only way I see the Republican party changing is if business (and their lobbying dollars) demand it.
I saw an article somewhere recently which showed a poll of CEO’s and they are massively in favor of things like higher minimum wage, longer paid maternal leave, and other so called “liberal” issues, and yet… nothing. Certainly the national Chamber of Commerce – who is supposed to represent these people’s interests – will have nothing to do with anything of the sort.
MikeBoyScout
I had myself a “Sec Tom Perez for VP” button made for my WA caucusing journey this year.
He’s the real deal and more than a tad electrifying in a room.
Thanks for the post.
smith
@Betty Cracker: I scroll past too. It’s too bad Booman keeps him on. Booman himself is well worth reading so I still visit, but between that guy and the other persistent crackpot with logorrhea in the comments I never stay too long.
MattF
@Baud: The difficulty is that the ‘institutional’ Republican organizations have been entirely taken over by wingers. To overcome that, actual business leaders would have to come up with actual dollars to outbid the wingers for the loyalty of the K Street courtiers. But that’s not going to happen– the whole setup is plainly dysfunctional. It’s easy to see why current CEOs are not volunteering to get involved.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Baud:
We have all the bad actors we could ever need but that is not the same as bad acting.
BAUD! NOW WITH 33% MORE CHARO!
Ked
@Gimlet:
As long as the superdelegate/unpledged delegate system as a whole ratifies the result of the pledged delegate system, I really don’t care too much how we get there.
I know that the brokered convention meme is played out, but every time I look at the Republican calendar I just can’t come up with a way for Cruz to get there with more delegates than Trump, but Trump really can’t get a majority unless he totally blows out California. So you go to a theoretical second ballot, where Rubio gives up his delegates – has he backed anyone yet? – and I can’t make that math work either. So if Kasich manages to hold his dels, then we could have a real deadlock, and at that point anything can happen.
What’s not clear to me is whether the 8-state rule is going to force the candidate pool down to Cruz and Trump before even the first ballot. Via Greenpapers:
If that means only the two leaders are eligible (Kasich needs a hell of a closing stretch to meet that standard, Cruz may not be a sure thing since I only count seven states where he meets that standard to date) then I would expect that all the horse-trading would have to be done in the closet ahead of the first ballot, which would be guaranteed to result in a majority for one candidate. If everyone gets out and pushes Cruz, he could win that confrontation, but then one assumes Trump would do whatever he can to nuke the convention. And that rule could presumably be changed, though I’m not sure who gets to vote on that.
I can’t see a way this doesn’t end in disaster, short of Trump conceding. What are the odds of that?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
‘washed up’? ‘bad acting’? I guess someone never saw any of the Charo episodes….
Baud
@redshirt: They ain’t going anywhere. We had the same myth going around the blogs in 2008-09.
bemused
@Betty Cracker:
Punching down is instinctive for rightwingers, distinctly disgusting when Republican legislators, politicos and media gleefully do it. This is rare for Dems as far as I can tell. It must happen but searching my memory bank, I haven’t come up with any equivalent incidents so far.
Baud
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Baud! 2016! Cuchi-cuchi!
James Powell
@? Martin:
Yes, true, but if Obama had been bald, would he still have been elected?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Pro-infrastructure, pro-immigration reform, against gov’t shutdowns… the inmates are truly running the asylum. Lisa Murkowski and Jerry Moran had to back down on some tentative calls for hearings for Merrick Garland. But as long as Republicans know to talk about guns and YOUR TAX DOLLARS, I don’t think they’re going anywhere, unfortunately.
smith
@Ked: This is why I think the really bloody fight will be about the rules. That will come early on, so we may have a very prolonged conflagration, perhaps with walkouts or occupations or riots outside.
Mike J
@smith:
You can read all of his good stuff at Washington Monthly.
lollipopguild
@? Martin: We elected a black guy president? When did this happen?
nopenope
Tom Perez story time. I work for the State Department overseas and Secretary Perez came to visit. My colleague was the control officer for the visit. He told a story on the last day of the trip they went out for some dinner and drinks and then Perez had to go back to the hotel for a conference call with washington. After that call, he went back to the bars and stayed out until they closed. My colleague, who I would guess is a Jeb Bush type of republican, had nothing but praise for Perez. He said he was the most respectful senior level politician he has ever dealt with and said he had an absolute command of his brief like very few people he had ever dealt with. Even so he always was asking everyone else for input and was always willing to listen.
Baud
@MattF:
And contrary to what people think, the current Democratic Party still isn’t significantly more attractive to business than the GOP.
Ruckus
@Ben Cisco:
Very good news. Good luck with everything.
ArchTeryx
@Arm The Homeless: That’s a slander lawsuit waiting to happen. She’s a private citizen, not a public figure, and running for exactly nothing. She told the Governor he was an asshole to his face. That doesn’t automatically make her a public figure.
I hope she sues his ass for all he’s worth.
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t think the goal is what it does for the public official. The goal is to hurt the person who spoke up, and by extension intimidate others who might want to do the same. Trump is the real champ at this; he’s great at unleashing the flying monkeys on anyone who makes him look bad.
James Powell
@Hal:
The (possibly) positive aspect of Clinton’s negatives is that she has been around so long that it can’t get worse. But I do recall that when the press/media decided that they were going to take down Al Gore, they were successful and they were gleefully successful. Only the nomination of Trump will deter them from doing the same to Clinton.
smith
@ArchTeryx:
Unfortunately, it does make her a target for some rather sick people. If she suffers harm from this stunt I hope she double sues him for all he’s worth.
SFAW
@srv:
No kidding. And do you know what’s even worse? When yachts are owned by them gays, especially if they’re married. Just knowing that Teh Gheys have yachts reduces the pleasure of owning my own.
Or is that somehow different from what you meant?
Adam L Silverman
@Arm The Homeless: Considering she could’ve been arrested for assault, which I wouldn’t have put past Governor Scott, she was fortunate. Which is a sad state of affairs here in Florida.
SFAW
@Baud:
Plus, you would have to have the Oval Office and the Residence done over in rich, Corinthian leather.
Anya
Secretary Clinton did an inerview with POLITICO’s Glenn Thrush. It’s an informative interview. Not interms of policy but to get to know HRC’s thinking and temperament. I liked the way she talked about preparing herself to posibally facing Rudy Giuliani in NY Senate race in 2000.
This is why I think HRC will be the better candidate to face Trump or any of the republican bullies than Sen. Sanders. I seriously disliked Hillary in 08 but the more I shed the 2008 anger and look into her record and listen to her (really listen to her) the more I trust and like her.
It’s worth listening to the whole interview.
Keith G
Secretary Perez is a lot less impressive when he repeats the tired old ideas that we can train and we can educate ourselves out of the employment issues we are having.
That steel worker he had been talking to is now working for a specialty steel manufacturer which likely employs one-tenth of the labor force that his previous steel manufacturing plant employed.
The high-tech high-wage jobs of the future which is often talked about by Democrats and others are good, certainly, but unfortunately there aren’t enough of them. I become absolutely frustrated when politicians don’t own up to that fact.
Hal
@James Powell: Gore made some mistakes all on his own, though. Distancing himself from Bill Clinton and choosing Joe Lieberman as VP to name two. The media didn’t help, but Gore did in the end win the popular vote. If not for the Supreme Court he would be president.
muddy
@Adam L Silverman: She could say she thought he was Batboy, she had seen it in the papers, very scary. And so she had to stand her ground. Unarmed she could only use words!
Eric U.
speaking of expensive haircuts, my barber says that Trump’s hair is so elaborate that she’s convinced he has a hairdresser arrange it every morning.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@redshirt: The Republican Party isn’t dying. They’ll reinvent themselves, given time, but they’re not dying. The Akin-Trump wing of the party is burying the ghost of Atwater and screaming ‘n****r n****r n****r’ to thunderous applause of the base. Then they get whomped in the general. There will be a time in the wilderness before the whole thing collapses and the Kasich-Haley outwardly pragmatic wing can build things up again.
The GOP won’t be doing themselves any favors in the near-term, but, no, they’re not dying.
yellowdog
@Ked: Do you think Michelle is up for it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh, man, Rudi’s gonna cut that out and put it on his desk and glower at it and grind his cheap dentures.
schrodinger's cat
@Eric U.: Are you sure its not a hair-piece?
Betty Cracker
@Keith G: That’s a fair point. There are some realities about the changing nature of the economy that no one has the guts to take on, but eventually, it will have to be addressed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@James Powell: I tend to buy into the idea that Obama’s approval ratings have gone up as the shitshow that is the Republican Party becomes too omnipresent to ignore, and I think the same will happen with HRC in an eventual one-on-one race. I don’t mean it’s a done deal– events, dear friends, events!– but I think she’s a much stronger candidate than current numbers suggest.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
How could she have been arrested for assault? Have I blanked on or overlooked some threat of physical violence that she made? Are you trying to tell me that Scott, with his entourage around him, was a-skeered that Jennings would have leaped over the table to attack him? Did she threaten to throw garlic/wolfbane (said in a Maria Ouspenskaya accent)/a mirror at him? Or does Florida have a different definition of “assault” than the usual threat of bodily harm or fear of an attack?
Granted, I am not a lawyer (obviously), but I thought assault had to be a little more than just loudly calling someone an asshole, in front of the peasants.
Betty Cracker
@Eric U.: IANAHD, but as near as I can tell, it’s a triple combover, which would be difficult but not impossible to pull off by oneself. Before he married the third Mrs. Trump, I figured he just plucked the clump of hair wives #1 and #2 left on the shower drain and placed that on his head. But the current Mrs. Trump doesn’t have the right color hair to make that work.
smith
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t understand this. In Florida calling someone names is an assault? When did they repeal the First Amendment? If he’s wounded by her words he can sue for slander (good luck with that) but even in FL I don’t see how it’s assault. Or am I missing some snark?
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This was a one on one interview with Secretary Perez. But he had a Trump flunky on the panel. He let him lie about the economy and the state of the country. I think because he was outnumbered everyone went easy on him.
redshirt
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: I disagree slightly. They are a dying party in terms of membership and approval, but they’re not going to die. I’m not sure they can be killed, since our system basically requires two parties. But they’re certainly not growing.
And when it comes to the actual issues, they’re wrong on every single one of them.
Brachiator
@Ked:
California seems to be Trump country, according to the recent Field poll:
Cruz could make up some room with some hard campaigning, but it will be tough. The big LA area talk radio station hosted viewings of the Republican debates, and almost everyone who showed up was a big Trump supporter. Anti immigrant fever runs high with this bunch.
Kay
@Keith G:
He’s better at it than the rest of them, though. He somehow avoids sounding like he’s blaming them, or sounding like Tom Friedman, which is KEY:)
I can’t prove it but I think the O Administration began replacing the truly awful Arne Duncan with Perez on the whole “upskilling” tour circuit. It’s vitally important not to sound like you’re scolding them and Duncan only has one trick “scolding lecture from out-of-touch CEO to mediocre workforce”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Eric U.: @schrodinger’s cat: I always assume it’s a mullet combed up and forward and maybe woven into his scalp. That’s a thing, right?
Amaranthine RBG
The whole fucking process is corrupt.
Sanders gets significantly more votes in WY but then the same amount of delegates.
The purpose of the democratic primaries is not to elect who democrats want to run as president, it is just to perpetuate the party power structure.
Disgusting.
Baud
@Amaranthine RBG:
LOL.
Corner Stone
Fuck Arne Duncan. Fuck him up his stupid ass.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Ked: The big thing to remember is that all delegates are only pledged to their current candidate through the first round. There’s been news recently of Trump throwing a fit because a significant number of his ‘pledged delegates’ are all Cruz or GOP establishment guys.
My belief is Tailchaser Ted’s relatively smart enough to game enough delegates to get the nom on the second ballot. Of course, he’s not smart enough to figure out how to go from there with Trump bitching to every media source he can grab, the establishment treating Ted like Chernobyl-brand uranium, and the Villagers disappointed in not being able to anoint Paul Ryan as Ronaldus Magnus II. And all of them can point to Tailchaser finishing second in the plurality contest.
Its going to be a fun four months between Cleveland and the general.
Ked
@yellowdog:
Wrong Obama.
Michelle, if she is inclined in that direction (and I haven’t seen evidence she is, though I haven’t gone looking for any) is maybe where HRC was in 1996 or so. If she puts in 20 years or so of solid effort, I could see it.
smith
@Keith G: Talking on the stump about the need for wholesale restructuring of how work is done and paid for is a lot like talking about the need for taxation. It’s one of those truths that will kill your candidacy. Wish the voters weren’t such children about unpleasant truths but it’s another unpleasant truth that they are.
Major Major Major Major
@Amaranthine RBG: That’s not… no, that’s not what happened at all. If you want to complain about superdelegates, be my guest, but if you want to complain about the existence of municipalities… well, I’d tend to agree with you that things like the senate are undemocratic outdated throwbacks to slavery and the concept of federalism, but the precinct –> county –> state delegate structure is just sort of there from the days before telephones. Sheesh.
Relatedly! Somebody on facebook said ‘somebody should ask hillary if she would accept the nomination if she got a majority of pledged delegates but a minority of popular votes’ as a sort of nanny-nanny-boo-boo Bernfeeler sarcasm, and I had to point out that Camp Bernie has said he’d be willing to accept the nomination with neither. Haven’t heard back…
Davis X. Machina
I’m not voting for anyone who goes on Bill Maher unless whoever it is strangles him on camera with his own tie.
different-church-lady
@Amaranthine RBG: Sometimes when I see football on TV, I think to myself, “HEY, THAT GUY JUST KNOCKED THAT OTHER GUY RIGHT OVER! HOW CAN THAT BE FAIR?!?”
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Keith G: Honestly asking, what alternative options are there?
Ked
@Brachiator: CA seems to be winner-take-all per congressional district with a small number (13?) of proportional statewide dels. What you’re describing is a way for Trump to win the vote, but lose the del count. It may not skew that badly, but I bet Trump doesn’t come out better than 60% dels which isn’t going to be enough.
Mike J
@smith: You can be arrested for damn near anything. The question is, can you be convicted? If the gov and his bodyguard called the cops and said you had assaulted him, you would be spending the night in jail even if they had to spring you tomorrow.
different-church-lady
@Davis X. Machina: I wouldn’t be surprised to see Maher accidentally do it to himself someday.
smith
@Mike J: Yes, but with it all on video you’d have a good case against the cops as well.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So… apparently Roger Ailes et al are tweeting this out as a keen and important insight
Isn’t she the one who tried to run against HRC for the NY Senate seat in ’06, stopped in the middle of her announcement speech to tell her staff, on mike and on camera, that the pagination on her speech was out of order and she couldn’t finish it?
redshirt
@efgoldman: Fucking Eliot Cutler. A vanity campaign supported by rich totebaggers. Who I bet are also in large part Bernie supporters.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Amaranthine RBG:
Are you 12 years old or just never been involved in any party politics before or just stupid?
Oh I forgot one other possibility KARL ROVE and his team trying to ratfuck HRC
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Time to grab a beer, kick back, and wait to see what the judge’s opinion is after the RNC.
Davis X. Machina
@redshirt:
Here’s how that sort explains things to me:
Step one — get the parties out of politics.
Step two — get the politicians out of politics.
Step three — the millennium arrives, on the heels of the consensus of the virtuous.
It’s even got three steps, not like those Underpants Gnomes!
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Not exactly. It would be more fair to say that California Republicans (a dying breed) prefer Trump to Cruz by a modest margin. There’s no realistic chance that anyone with a (R) after their name will get the state’s electoral votes in November.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was close. “Do you have page ten? Who’s got page ten?“
SFAW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m confused: is Judge Jeanine black, brown, a student, or a Democrat? Or a member of any other “traditionally Democratic” constituency? Because they’re the only ones who are in danger of having their vote(s) taken away, because of evil motherfuckers like her bosses, and the people for whom they carry water. And because the “ruling class” trying to do that are all Rethuglicans.
SFAW
@Davis X. Machina:
Well, except that you forgot:
Step four — PROFIT!
Major Major Major Major
@SFAW: I think that’s Steps 0, 1b, 2b, and 3b
Adam L Silverman
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: There’s a follicle transplant specialist in the greater Philadelphia area that handles high profile cases. He used to have a billboard advertising his practice on the east side of the interstate (viewable by those driving north) right across from the football stadium and hockey arena. It featured Bernie Parent and the quote: “Great save Doc!”. If its good enough for Bernie Parent, I’m sure it was good enough for Senator Biden.
trollhattan
Like a lot of folks this is the first time I’ve seen Perez in a one-on-one interview, and he’s a natural, going with the interviewer’s lead (and Maher is a quirky interviewer even when behaving himself) and still getting his message across when there’s a natural opening.
In a debate against a Trump/Cruz running mate, one can only salivate at the potential contrast when remembering Handsome Joe versus Palin and Ryan.
I still think it will be Julian Castro, but this fellow seems very solid, indeed.
Roger Moore
@Amaranthine RBG:
I don’t remember you complaining about corruption when Sanders got more delegates than he deserved because of manipulation of the caucusing rules in Nevada.
AnotherBruce
@Amaranthine RBG: It was a caucus, not a primary, big difference.
redshirt
@Davis X. Machina: And our chakras shall align with the great crystal harmonics and we will know everlasting peace.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: wasn’t he still in NRA-Democrat mode then? Or is this the one who owns a really good job creating business with many, many employees that he manages to keep afloat with his Discover card in spite of the crippling expenses of Obamacare?
feebog
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That rule can be changed. It was put in for the 2012 convention as a way of preventing Ron Paul from even being nominated. If the convention goes several ballots without a nominee, the rule will almost certainly be changed from the floor.
Adam L Silverman
@muddy: Actually stand your ground applies to all lethal force. Doesn’t matter if its armed or unarmed. If you’re justified in standing your ground, you are justified to use lethal force – armed or unarmed. The way the Florida statute is written it is a completely subjective determination: if the user of deadly force feels threatened. Technically, Scott could have claimed he felt threatened and shot her dead on the spot.
AnotherBruce
@Amaranthine RBG: Do you want to know the vote count? 156 Sanders 124 Clinton. I you not kid.
redshirt
@Adam L Silverman: Apropos of nothing, thanks for the Spider-Man link last night. You weren’t wrong!
Just One More Canuck
@Amaranthine RBG: What evidence do you have that people voting in the democratic primaries aren’t electing who they want to run as president. Over 2 million more people have voted for Clinton than have voted for Sanders.
Elie
@Keith G:
Keith, is there an obvious solution that you think has not been promoted or talked about? I agree about the issue, but its hard to fault Perez for not having a solution in mind… this is/will be one of the toughest challenges for administrations over the next two decades — how to create enough good jobs in a world where automation, education and market forces/location of consumers, work against one nation running the show…
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Yeah, I guess I should have made it more clear that I was only talking about Republicans. The Field poll results I quoted was only about Republicans and Trump v Cruz and Kasich in the upcoming GOP primary.
There is not much point in talking about Republicans and the November election. In 2012 in California, Romney pretty much just got the old white male vote. GOP prospects look to be about the same for 2016.
Mike J
@feebog:
Can it be changed with all of Trump’s and Cruz’s delegates voting against changing it?
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: Yeah, I just reread the statute. There has to be both a threat and the ability to carry it out. I sit corrected.
WarMunchkin
Perez seems solid – I’d worry about his ability to speechify, so to speak, but then again, I can’t always hope for Bill or Barack. I did some nostalgia viewing of Barack in Iowa 2007; I always loved the energy of the Jefferson-Jackson dinner.
Regarding @Keith G’s comment about high-skill jobs replacing manufacturing jobs – I agree with the concept of the comment, but I don’t think that’s what Perez was arguing here. I think Perez was just narrating what he did for this particular worker, with the hope that that model could be extensible. I doubt this guy actually thinks that we can replace low-skill workers.
Anya
@Amaranthine RBG: Man, you need to understand how delegates are won before you cry corruption. The system was not designed to derail your candidate.
Adam L Silverman
@smith: Please see my reply to SFAW at 167. I pulled the statute, read it, and I sit corrected. There was no threat made, just verbal abuse, so no assault.
redshirt
Did anyone see the Boston Globe today?
A satire front page, a “What If Donald Trump was elected President”.
Major Major Major Major
@Elie: In a sane world, you’d see something like a combination of education/retraining subsidies, a high wage floor, and a negative income tax/guaranteed minimum income in nations like the US that are more service-and-creativity focused, while the robots and (let’s be honest) guest laborers do the grunt work that isn’t being performed in another country altogether. But you can’t say that out loud any more.
Elie
@Amaranthine RBG:
Wyoming is a caucus. Caucuses by their very nature are NOT one person one vote and the results are always a part of a decision process that doesn’t end up with a fair result way too often. Why do states like them? They are great for the local Democratic party for increasing enthusiasm and getting more volunteers, which are the lifeblood of electoral success. I personally do not like caucuses but don’t expect them to go away. They are not “corrupt” however (why is this the new word for everything that has complex up and down sides?). People who run them are not intending to be unfair or unjust or to systematically support some particular agenda.
Davis X. Machina
@Elie:
“Corrupt” is the new “unconstitutional”.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: Actually if you watch the vid, the woman in the grey pant suit moved deliberately towards the shouter. If I had to guess, this was the female member of Governor Scott’s security detail and she was moving to actually do something along the lines of either telling her to stop, or asking to see her ID, or make an arrest. You’ll notice that she quickly stops, turns arounds, and heads towards the front of the store and the door when she notices that the whole thing is being recorded by someone on their phone.
Davis X. Machina
@Just One More Canuck:
They’re wrong, though. So out those ballots go.
Me, I blame all the false consciousness going ’round.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: You’re welcome.
SFAW
@Anya:
Is Nader running, and I missed the news?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Elie:
States like caucuses because the party pays for them, not the state.
Sanders supporters have to believe that their messiah is losing because he’s being persecuted for his purity, not because he failed to learn the system, train his staff and hone his message to appeal to more people. There was nothing to learn from Obama, who is too Establishment, man.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@SFAW:
You can’t spell Sanders without Nader.
SFAW
@Davis X. Machina:
Well, not to be TOO nit-picky, but: ANYONE who votes for a Demon-rat, is, by definition, WRONG, and should have his/her vote nullified.
Brachiator
@trollhattan:
I agree that Perez came across very well on the Maher program. He could even talk about his own past accomplishments without it sounding like bragging.
And I like a guy who can be so affable when talking about collecting political enemies.
If this was a preview of a potential VP candidate, I say, “good job.”
SFAW
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I thought it was “Serutan spelled backwards spells
MUDSandersNader”Davis X. Machina
@redshirt: …and still not be able to get into Bintliff’s for brunch. This is a cruel world.
Elie
@Major Major Major Major:
The national boundaries of nation states protecting their turf — are melting away from being controllable by any one nation state. The politics around this are gonna be poison because politicians will be held accountable to keep/make jobs for their constituencies that they cannot. There will be a lot of espionage and attempts to control markets through direct and indirect means. What that will look like is not good. Bernie’s shtick and to some extent, Trump’s reflect this, but I believe they are a very mild form to the sort of populism that some will be adopting…. There is no way to get around the fact that corporations will remain powerful and will control these jobs and where they are. Bernie’s thing to do over slash and burn war is ridiculous — it will have to be much more sophisticated than that and a global strategy of some sort…. Anyway, those are my thoughts — for what its worth…
redshirt
@Davis X. Machina: LOL. I get that reference! I’ve also had brunch there. Meh.
Roger Moore
@Mike J:
What Trump and Cruz delegates? If it gets to the point of changing the 8 state rule, it will likely be because Trump and Cruz have failed to fill the delegations with their own delegates, and the process is being taken over by party apparatchiks who were appointed as delegates.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Eerie. Like Pres. Kennedy having a secretary named Lincoln and Pres. Lincoln having a secretary named Kennedy.
Roger Moore
@Davis X. Machina:
More accurately, “corrupt” is the left wing’s version of the right’s “unconstitutional”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The mind of a Young Villager (I think this kid is a Fournier protege)
If Obama had mentioned OBL, Young Josh would be scolding him for grabbing credit from Seal Team 6
FlipYrWhig
@Davis X. Machina: “Neoliberal” runs neck and neck with it.
redshirt
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s right. Today is the first day Obama has gone on Fox News. I wonder why.
Elie
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Yeah — that is part of the reason.
That said, Bernie’s team seems to not like rules that others make and prefer to make up their own or accuse existing rules/rulemakers of being corrupt or unfair. The democratic party decided some time ago not to have winner take all and to divide votes proportionally. Again, that is not unfair or corrupt…
Major Major Major Major
@Elie: Hey, I said a sane world. Just add ‘global water scarcity’ to your scenario and that’s where things will realistically go, IMHO. Like Snow Crash but less exciting.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Not enough Assyrian influence IMO.
smith
@Adam L Silverman: Re Voldemort’s dreadful assault, it called to mind an old similar case involving Dick Cheney that reached the Supreme Court. Looks like the Secret Service, but maybe not other law enforcement, can do any damn thing it wants to when a politician is criticized in public. Of course in the Cheney case the guy actually touched him lightly, so maybe that makes all the difference.
lollipopguild
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Roger Ailes-meatpuppet of the ruling class is worried that Rich People will take Rodger’s country away from him?
Tenar Darell
@Mike J: I think mine are about 12 or 13 years old. Can’t toss either since I bought the first cap just before the year they won series, & the other is a 2004 series winner model. ;-)
I keep one in the car & one at home. End up wearing mine to walk in spring & summer especially. And the two I have, well they’re now both kinda fading from the sun & sweat. So to change things up, new one is red with the blue B (since both my older ones are blue with red B). Looking forward to breaking it in, maybe taking in a game or two in person this season.
redshirt
@Tenar Darell: I lived right next to Fenway Park for about 7 years and I miss it. I lived in 2 apartments during that time and the first one, while not very nice, afforded me views into the park, into the centerfield bleachers. During the warm days with the windows open I had this cool affect when watching a game on TV where the roar of the crowd would come just a few moments ahead of the event on TV, and then produce a neat stereo affect.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Elie:
Agreed. Unfortunately the bros are attempting to make life miserable for anyone and everyone online who points that out to them. By the way, the newest enemy of the revolution is Elijah Cummings who got off the sidelines today to support Hillary. I’m sure Bernie’s dismissiveness, again today, of Hillary’s votes from the south had nothing to do with it/ His and his supporters’ ability to dismiss and alienate everyone who could help him get what he seems to want has been something to behold.
AnotherBruce
@redshirt: Serious question. What is it about Maine? By that I mean, is it basically a conservative Republican state? I get that it has some history of electing not totally insane Republicans, with the exception of the current governor. I assume a fair number of democrats are elected. But how would you describe it politically?
different-church-lady
@Anya: “Incremental rounding threshold” would seem to be the key factor. The fewer delegates the state has, the higher the percentage a given candidate has to win by in order to gain additional delegates.
lollipopguild
@SFAW: the next stage in voter control is for a GOP state leg to simply outlaw the Democratic Party. Freedum!
dogwood
@Ked:
I’ve seen Michelle Obama laugh at the idea of running for office at least a dozen times over the past 7 years. I’ve also seen the President laugh at the idea as well. Both agree that she doesn’t have the temperament for elective office. Self-awareness is a rare quality. Both Obamas seem to have a healthy, realistic sense of who they are.
Elie
@AnotherBruce:
Maine has a very poor/stressed white working class that has all the problems talked about: poor health, low job prospects etc. There are not a lot of black people in Maine, but there is ongoing resentment of the black and brown people who come through to sell drugs, etc. It is not a state with a booming economy and well distributed good jobs.
different-church-lady
@dogwood:
No wonder they end up with such hatred aimed at them. If there’s one thing the citizens of this country can’t stand, it’s a psychologically well-adjusted person.
Anya
@different-church-lady: Exactly, but to uninformed supporters that means “CORRUPTION”
different-church-lady
@Anya: To some of these people, a purring kitten would mean CORRUPTION!!!
Elie
@different-church-lady:
This is it in a nutshell. And its mostly smaller states (with smaller numbers of delegates) that do caucuses….
Chyron HR
@Anya:
“M-O-O-N, that spells corruption!”
Davis X. Machina
@AnotherBruce:
To the east of the Turnpike, and near salt water? Massachusetts, 1819 be damned.
To the west of the Turnpike? Upstate NY, and not in a good way.
If West Virginia had a seacoast, you’d have Maine.
Renie
Have to admit my first reaction was uh oh he’s balding. In our society that’s a minus especially since he’s young. But once I listened to him I found him very personable, able to speak well and informative. If they can get him out to speak a lot I think he would be a great candidate for VP. (I do agree with whoever said it he should shave it all off and be a ‘badass’.)
Elie
@Davis X. Machina:
Perfect description….
different-church-lady
@Davis X. Machina: What about the part that’s Canada?
bemused senior
@AnotherBruce: There were 7265 votes cast in the Wyoming caucuses. The state population is a little over half a million. The numbers you quote are the state delegate votes. I had a hell of a time finding the actual caucus turnout, and it didn’t identify the Sanders – Clinton votes at the local level.
Davis X. Machina
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I guess the former chair of the Congressional Black Caucus is now neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.
Davis X. Machina
@different-church-lady: A myth. North of Brewer, there’s…..nothing.
Roger Moore
@Anya:
I think that a lot of the people who are quickest to shout “Corruption” would genuinely be happier losing righteously than winning. Winning makes you responsible for accomplishing stuff, and with responsibility comes blame when things don’t go according to plan. It’s far better to lose after a righteous fight, since that leaves you blameless and gives you the right to complain.
SoupCatcher
@Renie:
Well, he’s 55. Median voter age is about a decade below that, and that qualifies for a senior discount at some places.
(edited to fix mistaken cut-and-paste)
redshirt
@AnotherBruce: There’s a lot of Mainers here to answer. But briefly, it’s a state made up of very different parts. The majority of the population lives in the extreme south of the state and it is very liberal. The rest of the state is extremely rural and is far more conservative. The old industries are all dead and dying, so the rural parts are not doing well at all.
It also has a very strong streak of Republicanism that goes back to the Civil War – interesting fact: Maine and Vermont are the only two states that never voted for FDR. Because he was a Democrat. The sweeping changes in party identification due to the Civil Rights Act happened here too, but there’s a lot of legacy “My family has always voted Republican and so I will too” phenomena.
Finally, our current Governor exists only because of a 3rd party liberal candidate who managed to take enough of the vote in two elections to sit that idiot. The 2014 election was probably also swayed by the fact that the Dem (Michaud) was forced out of the closet shortly before the election.
redshirt
@Davis X. Machina: Heh. My family is all from Brewer – “The Town that’s ‘growing’ places!”
That said, Bangor is coming around. It’s way better now then it was in the 80’s.
Also, too, Orono is north of Brewer and it should count for something.
stinger
@Davis X. Machina: I seldom watch Maher, so does he always avoid letting his guests get a laugh? He cut right into Sec. Perez’s laugh lines, metaphors, and basically any end of his sentences.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: The border towns way up North are certainly Canadian influenced but their electoral results are usually just barely Dem.
I covered a snowmobile race in Ft. Kent in January for a magazine a long time ago and the place was surreal. It was extreme for me and I was born here. Fun fact: Many stores and restaurants had dedicated snowmobile parking.
Zinsky
I like this guy, but then I am fairly follicle-challenged.
Daulnay
@Keith G:
I don’t quite understand the defeatism towards rebuilding manufacturing. The Germans managed to maintain a strong manufacturing base in their economy, and they have a higher-wage manufacturing economy than we are. So we should be able to restore at least some of our manufacturing base, if we try. If the Germans can do it, why is it inevitable that we cannot?
The economic reality has changed a lot over the last 40 years, but many people haven’t quite accepted it. The world’s economy has left the industrial age, where manufacturing was necessary for economic strength, and entered the information age of data, software, and trade in information. The Internet does for intellectual/mind works what the railroads did for manufactured goods, so we’re in the middle of great economic upheaval. But just as agriculture didn’t disappear when manufacturing took off, manufacturing doesn’t have to disappear in the winds of the new information economy. Like agriculture before it, manufacturing is transforming. But U.S. corporations decided to export the manufacturing jobs rather than adapt them to the information age, encouraged by NAFTA and the other trade agreements, plus the tax avoidance benefits of being a multinational. Germany’s did some of both.
So can anyone give me a solid reason we can’t restore a good portion of our manufacturing, transformed by the information age? All I ever see is vigorous hand-waving about the ‘inevitability’ of manufacturing moving offshore, when the German counter-example shows it’s far from inevitable.
Daulnay
@redshirt:
We need a third party, so that voters can choose between two sensible parties. I don’t see the Republican party ever recovering from the madness that’s consumed it.
burnspbesq
@Amaranthine RBG:
No, the process has rules, which you obviously can’t be arsed to learn.
Wyoming’s !4 delegates are selected based on the outcomes of 23 county caucuses.
Clinton won enough counties to win seven delegates. Same as Sanders.
So kindly STFU until you know what you’re talking about.
Uncle Cosmo
@Ked:
@smith:
Rule 40(b) is a remnant of the 2012 convention, designed to keep the Paulistas from running amok on the floor & ruining the optics. The 2016 convention Rules Committee meets just prior to Cleveland (in Tampa IIRC) & will no doubt amend the rules re who can & cannot be nominated.
And that’s where the real battle will occur & it won’t have much to do with Drumpf–it’ll be between the Cruzers & the anyone-but-Cruz-or-Trump faction. The former will probably start off pushing for amending the language either replacing “majority” with “plurality” or replacing the number 8 with (say) 4. (According to the NYT the Failgunner has majorities in 6 states but pluralities in 9.) Either change leaves only Drumpf & Cruz qualifying. If Cruz has enough stealth supporters on the Rules Committee–& he concludes he looks like the less toxic choice vs The Donald–that could happen.
The problem with that approach is the possibility that rules can be challenged & defeated & a different rule substituted by a majority vote of Convention delegates in a floor fight. (NB I am not conversant with the Thugs’ rules so I don’t know to what extent this is true.) If you lock out Rubio & Cruz, their supporters plus a large hunk of Trump’s might be able to defeat it & substitute something replacing 8 with 1–which still gets them nominated but keeps Ryan out. The question then becomes whether Cruz has finagled enough stealth supporters onto the Trump delegate slates to defeat a floor challenge.
IMO Cruz would be wise to support a Rules Committee amendment of Rule 40(b) to quality anyone who won a primary or caucus. That locks out anyone but the 4 contenders still standing. My guess is that after the first ballot, his stealth supporters among those pledged to Trump will get him close enough to do a deal with Kasich for the VP nomination, which should keep the regulars from bolting the ticket no matter how much they despise DisgusTED.
But I think he’d rather try to force the Convention to nominate him, as an “in your eye” to the legions who despise him. That will be interesting.
redshirt
@Daulnay: I disagree. A viable third party means Republicans would take offices with 34% of the vote sometimes. That doesn’t work for our system.
schrodinger's cat
I like Perez, full head of hair or not. Either of the Castro bros would be too green to be VP. I would also like Sherrod Brown as VP.
Elie
Daulnay, I think part of the reason why Germany is able to keep its high paying manufacturing jobs is because of the role it plays with the European Union where they can export what they manufacture to a pretty much captive market. If the EU shatters, they don’t have that since they are a net producer of goods. Without that captive market they have to compete with other producers which would drive their prices (and salaries) down. At least that is how I understand it. The US does not have that and is a net consumer nation, which has its own pluses and minuses. ( I am now getting to the limits of my understanding of international markets, but I just wanted to throw in what I had read and understood previously)
Renie
@SoupCatcher: Really? I thought he was much younger.
Ella in New Mexico
@redshirt:
I think it has to do with how you define “business”. Is it Koch-style With its delusions of eventual coup d’etat and Oligarchy? It’s it the bottom feeders in the up and coming business ranks of any given state, where if you’re not a Republican you lose opportunity to partake of all the politically-derived benefits for your profit margin?
Then, sadly, no.
Is it people for whom the Republican Party’s horrible legislation finally effects them in a such a deeply personal way that they simply, finally, cannot turn away and pretend is not important?
Then yes.
Ella in New Mexico
@Hal: I simply see no need to be pragmatic in a party primary. Vote for who you want to be President of the United States, and let the rest sort itself out.
Daulnay
@redshirt:
Well, better that the crazies win occasionally with 34% than the current system where the lack of choice puts a lot of crazy in office.
PurpleGirl
@SFAW: Judge Jeanine is the former District Attorney of Westchester County, NYS. I believe she is a Republican. And I’m spacing her last name.
SoupCatcher
@Renie:
*double-checks*
Oh, a little younger – he’s 54 – as he hasn’t had his birthday yet this year.
Betty Cracker
@Daulnay: In the short term, the only obstacles are political. (“Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”) But eventually, we’re going to have to address the effects of technology, aren’t we? It’s going to render many — perhaps most — jobs obsolete. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, as long as we adjust our economic model to match changing circumstances.
Renie
We also need better education so we can have more research and development to create more industries. Ones that we don’t even know about today. Just like the internet was unknown decades ago and now its an industry with jobs.
Ella in New Mexico
@Kay: Arne Duncan has been a HUGE disapointment.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Davis X. Machina: Dead thread? But… not long ago in a twitter thread about Donna Edwards, a young Bernista opined that it was with great regret she couldn’t support Edwards, but DE had endorsed the Witch of Wall Street, and the Virtuous Young Bernista could only support “real progressives”, the noble little lamb
@PurpleGirl: Pirro
redshirt
@Daulnay: I’m not sure. Here in Maine we wither under a crazy Republican because two liberals ran for office the last two elections, splitting the otherwise hugely liberal vote and denying the vast majority of people proper representation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@bemused senior: seems to be a truism in the political media from blogs to the Washington Post, the standard seems to be to report delegate counts and not total turnout in caucuses, bugs the crap out of me.
Ella in New Mexico
@redshirt: then maybe we need four parties?
I think the issue might be that we lack real, durable organizations that have a true political philosophy and platform that has lasted more than an election cycle. Europe seems to be able to have more than two parties in its democracies. Maybe someday, we will too.
Daulnay
@Elie:
Elie, German manufacturing is internationally competitive, not limited to the EU market. They export a lot of manufactures to the U.S., we’re their #2 mfg export market, over 3/4 of that is manufactures. China is their 4th largest, and it’s almost all manufacturing goods. (France is #1, the U.K. #2).
Ruckus
@Renie:
What the hell is it with balding that reflects badly on a man?
Are we worried about what’s inside the noggin or outside?
I want results and someone who is mentally capable of being the chief executive and commander in chief not a model. I don’t care what color, gender, if you are bald, have a beard, are ginger, have $600 hair days (if you can afford it), look like Jabba the Hut (OK your health and breath might be an issue). IOW I don’t care if you are a bald woman with a ginger beard and full body tats, if you can think, act and accomplish the needs of the country, I’m good to go.
redshirt
@Ella in New Mexico: They’re mostly Parliamentary though, right? Our system is not the same.
Micheline
@Daulnay: @Elie:
German manufacturing is internationally competitive because of the kind of products that are exported, like luxury cars, etc. The US is more known for providing services than its products.
PurpleGirl
@Daulnay: The manufacturing companies want to reduce their costs and the one they most want to reduce are salaries and benefits of workers. And since many of them are multi-national now they feel no duty, obligation, no loyalty to American workers.
Daulnay
@Betty Cracker:
Technology has been rendering jobs obsolete since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Yes, we’re going through a particularly large shift now, but it’s not essentially different from the upheavals of the Gilded Age or the industrialization of the 20th century. Our political system is dealing with the shift very ineffectively. Political leadership’s disappointed me, from both parties (not that I expected a lot from the Repubs.)
(BTW, thank you for the link to FWD.us, srv. A good illustration of the problems caused by the tech elite — they’d rather import the skilled workers they want than let the market work, pay higher wages, and so encourage U.S. residents to train for the available jobs. It would cost them too much in profit; they’re 1%ers.)
PurpleGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thanks. Yes, that’s it.
SFAW
@PurpleGirl:
As someone already pointed out, her last name is Pirro. But that’s pretty much immaterial. Here was the point of my comment:
The following comment is hers, I believe:
“Not since the American Revolution has the ruling class tried so hard… to take away our vote.” (Emphasis mine) Since when does ANY Rethug (outside of Ann Coulter, whose vote fraud was actually uncovered and documented, although she paid no price) have to worry about “our vote” being taken away? The number of times that has happened is probably equal to the number of legit, documented, “with malice aforethought,” cases of actual voter fraud in this country. Meaning: damn close to zero.
The suppression of the votes of blacks/browns/youngs/Dems, however, is a growth industry.
Daulnay
@redshirt:
We need to look beyond the liberal/conservative spectrum and build another party, that isn’t batshit crazy. Obviously, it isn’t going to be another party where all of us here will be comfortable, it’s going to have to include a good part of the non-liberal electorate. The liberal/conservative spectrum is getting less and less useful as a way to organize politics, especially now that we’re deep into the information age. Does anyone else get a sense that information age issues really haven’t surfaced as party-aligned issues yet?
Daulnay
@Micheline:
Germany exports outside the EU across a wide variety of manufactured goods, including consumer durables (cars), chemicals, biologics/medicines, steel and metals, specialized instruments, and lots of industrial equipment and components. Here’s what they send to China.
That’s a very broad range of manufactured products; they’re not competing in mass manufacture, but in the highest-value part of every manufacturing sector. The U.S. corporations chose to export those jobs rather than adapt and compete, that’s why we mainly do services now. But we could still manufacture if our corporations and our government prioritized good jobs for citizens over huge profits for corporate owners.
Tom Q
@Elie: It’s only the proportional system that enables the Sanders campaign to preserve the illusion it’s viable for the nomination. If all states had winner-take-all contests, Clinton would have an 800-900 delegate lead (fudged because MO & IA results might have been more contested under this system). The Dem delegate totals in the proportional system are a bit of an optical illusion: the fact that the trailing candidate accumulates a good share of votes even while losing keeps the tally closer…but the fact that delegate assignments will stay equally close in succeeding contests make it far harder for him to erase even what looks like a bridgeable margin.
Juju
@Betty Cracker: Secratary Clinton is around 5’5″, according to some Google research I have done. I met her when her husband was running for president the first time and I stood around 4″ taller than she was in heals, and I am 5’10”. Common wisdom says that the taller candidate usually has an advantage. Maybe we can blow the height thing and the bald thing away with this election.
Daulnay
@PurpleGirl:
Many of the German corporations are also multi-nationals. Why, then, is Germany prospering and we are not? Part of the answer is our politics; the Republicans blocked VW from unionizing their new plant in Tennessee and bringing in the German co-determination labor system. Our business owners are still at war with their workers; Germany’s have made a peace.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Tom Q:
Bernie’s earned more pinocchios than delegates this week.
Daulnay
@Juju:
If anyone can kill the height thing, it’s Clinton. She’s a tough lady, like Thatcher.
burnspbesq
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Why does that bug you? Aren’t delegates the only thing that really matters?
Ruckus
@Daulnay:
We actually do a lot of mfg in this country. What has been removed the most in mfg in this country is the low end stuff, home goods and so on. This has happened for a few reasons. First, our mfg has gotten a lot more high tech than it was 30 yrs ago. This costs capital. Second, labor has gotten the short shift from education, but that is nothing new over the last 50yrs. Kay has posted some good stories about OH and their education system recognizing that we still need welders/machinists/mold makers/foundry workers, etc but this is hit and mostly miss most states. And I say this with 2 of my fellow employees going to college/night school to lean more about making stuff. Third, our politics/media generally has been vilifying everything that is not owned capital, in other words, labor, middle class jobs, the things that keep the doors open and customers satisfied due to the very false idea that the world turns around the stick that some rich and very rich people have stuck up their butts. Fourth, large companies have gotten far more global over the last 30-40 yrs because they can and they have to to remain in business. Ford is a good example, they sell around the world, and they produce around the world, building the same cars and trucks for as many markets as possible. The just moved the production for 2 cars to Mexico, to open up a factory to build 2 new vehicles.
The real problem is that other countries standards of living are being raised. The world is getting better for billions of people, we were ahead, they are catching up and that leaves us looking for equilibrium.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@burnspbesq: Just personal curiosity, I’d like to know how many actual humans are being represented by those numbers.
different-church-lady
@Daulnay:
Coulda done without that comparison…
rikyrah
@Daulnay:
So can anyone give me a solid reason we can’t restore a good portion of our manufacturing, transformed by the information age? All I ever see is vigorous hand-waving about the ‘inevitability’ of manufacturing moving offshore, when the German counter-example shows it’s far from inevitable.
We have a political party, that, even with the obviousness of our infrastructure crumbling, refuse to fund it?
the average grade for our infrastructure is ‘ C’.
Amtrak is so 20th century, while the rails in Europe, China, Japan are 21st.
Amtrak is a step up from India’s rail system. …and, that’s not a compliment.
SFAW
@Daulnay:
In other words, the current Democratic Party? Or has Joe Manchin (and a host of others) suddenly turned liberal?
And, just to make sure I’m not misunderstanding you: are you applying the “batshit crazy” descriptor to both right and left? Or just to the right?
SFAW
@rikyrah:
Some cynics might say that doing so would require giving some power back to unions, or workers in general, therefore it’s a non-starter.
Not that there are any cynics around these parts.
sukabi
@SFAW: don’t know, but Florida is a stand your ground state… the lady is very lucky the assh0le didn’t shoot her, as sensitive and fragile as he is.
christopher murphy
@Felonius Monk: Given that a lot (most?) of those yachts are floating on stolen money, maybe Bernis’s got the right idea.
Uncle Cosmo
@Uncle Cosmo: (FTR “If you lock out Rubio & Cruz” should read “If you lock out Rubio & Kasich” above. I would imagine most of the Juicetariat made the substitution more or less without blinking an eye, but…)
christopher murphy
@Felonius Monk: Given that a lot (most?) of those yachts are floating on stolen money, maybe Bernis’s got the right [email protected]Ruckus: No, it isn’t just that other countries standard of living is improving, ours is in fact declining for large portions of the country. When you have declining life expectancies for significant portions of the population that is the cleares possible sign of systemic societal failure.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@christopher murphy:
Which idea is that?
SFAW
@sukabi:
Of course, being that it is SYG, there would be nothing to prevent other patrons, feeling threatened by Quickdraw McSnake, to take similar measures.
And he’s a shitload more scary-looking than Jennings, and he’s threatened a lot more people.
J R in WV
@Ben Cisco:
That’s good to hear. Hang in there! We’re with you all the time, just check in if you need company.
J R in WV
@Davis X. Machina:
When we spent 3 weeks in Maine, we both thought it was a lot like West Virginia, but with salt water on one edge. Much similarity from Oxford county all the way up to the Canadian border.
Our country roads are better…
berliner2
Perez has never held elected office. Julian Castro, currently secretary of housing and urban development, has.