Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Second rate reporter says what?

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

“woke” is the new caravan.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Not all heroes wear capes.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

You cannot shame the shameless.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

T R E 4 5 O N

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Wednesday Evening Open Thread: As the Stomach Turns, Episode 537

Wednesday Evening Open Thread: As the Stomach Turns, Episode 537

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To quote wise guy man Charles P. Pierce:

… It was one of the first articles of consensus here in the shebeen shortly after we opened it in 2011 that there is no functioning institution called the Republican Party anymore. There was simply a vast universe of orbiting centers of power, some of them secular and some of them religious, some of them made up of a single wealthy person and some of them an aggregation of organized interest groups, all of them operating independently according to their own private physical laws. This was apparent in the 2012 campaign when nobody could get fakes like Newt Gingrich or fools like Herman Cain out of the race until they were damned good and ready to exit the stage. Now, though, we look at not only the Republican Party institutions, but those institutions of government that the Republicans control, and we discover that nobody is really in charge. We go ship-by-ship through the Republican flotilla and discover as we do that nobody is on any bridge anywhere. It’s the Mary Celeste squadron, with all guns cleared for action. It is a menace to navigation in a functioning democracy. The only option may be the scuttle the whole business, just to keep the rest of the country from foundering.

…[Tuesday] afternoon, Ryan told us that we should count him out as a candidate for president. The setting was well-designed. It photographed beautifully. It will be an ornament to any campaign commercial he might choose to run. Playing the role of the greyhounds to Ryan’s mechanical rabbit were the members of the elite political media.

Reader Interactions

357Comments

  2. 2.

    rikyrah

    ‘Evicted’: How Renters, Especially Poor Black Women, Are Locked Out
    Mar 29, 2016, 5:39pm Eleanor J. Bader
    Matthew Desmond compellingly focuses on the ways race, class, and gender intersect with housing loss in Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City.

    When Harvard sociology professor and 2015 MacArthur Fellow Matthew Desmond moved to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to study housing policy, homelessness, and the politics of eviction, he came to a conclusion that startled him: “If incarceration had come to define the lives of men from impoverished black neighborhoods, eviction was shaping the lives of women. Poor black men were locked up. Poor black women were locked out.”

    In Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City, out this month from the Crown Publishing Group, Desmond compellingly focuses on the ways race, class, and gender intersect with housing loss. His focus is Milwaukee, a city he got to know while in graduate school in nearby Madison. Evicted offers an in-depth, heart-rending look at eight families caught in the struggle to find decent, affordable housing in the city. To write the book, Desmond spent more than a year living in two of Milwaukee’s most impoverished neighborhoods and interviewing residents.

  3. 3.

    rikyrah

    uh huh

    ‘Incomplete’ and ‘Disingenuous’: Responses to Clinton’s Proposal for Dismantling School-to-Prison Pipeline

    Mar 1, 2016, 5:40pm
    Kanya D’Almeida

    ………………………..

    The conversation gained steam in February when Michelle Alexander, author of The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, penned a piece in the Nation titled “Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote.” In her essay, Alexander explored the ways in which then-President Bill Clinton championed a federal “three strikes” law to impose life sentences without parole for offenders convicted of certain crimes, and signed a $30 billion crime bill that created scores of new federal capital crimes and significantly expanded the police force—policies for which Alexander claims Hillary Clinton actively advocated.

    …………………………………………..

    Her statement came more than a week after unveiling her $125 billion Breaking Every Barrier Agenda that promises, among other things, to dismantle the school-to-prison pipeline.

    Her proposal includes an allocation of $2 billion to school districts to incentivize reform of harsh disciplinary practices, which have been followed by soaring suspension and arrest rates: School suspensions shot up from 1.7 million in 1974 to 3.1 million in 2000, “and have been most dramatic for children of color,” according to the American Civil Liberties Union.

    Clinton’s proposal also calls attention to an “ineffective culture of zero-tolerance,” and highlights the over-reliance on “school resource officers”—police personnel deployed in schools who numbered 9,000 as of 2008—as being emblematic of “overly punitive atmospheres that often disproportionately criminalize and stigmatize students of color, students with disabilities, and students who identify as LGBT.”

  5. 5.

    Matt McIrvin

    I think the idea is that Sanders, unlike Clinton in 2008, isn’t going to give up trying to flip the superdelegates, so the convention will be “contested” in that sense unless Clinton gets to a majority entirely with pledged delegates (which is essentially impossible at this point; it would require a large supermajority).

    The question is whether Jeff Weaver is serious about this.

  10. 10.

    Gimlet

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Washington (CNN)Jeff Merkley on Wednesday became the first sitting U.S. senator to endorse the presidential bid of his colleague Bernie Sanders

    This doesn’t mean Hillary is the Party establishment’s choice. Like superdelegates, she knows the rules, campaigns hard and her message resonates with them. Just an odd phenomenon that it happened this way. Did I mention that she has more primary votes than Sanders?

  11. 11.

    rikyrah

    Cruz ad: When I’m president, ‘de Blasio is done’
    April 13, 2016, 02:43 pm

    Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz on Wednesday released a new radio ad attacking New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, ahead of the Empire State’s primary.

    The 60-second ad, titled “Nerve,” starts by referring to comments made by de Blasio attacking Cruz.

    “I think Ted Cruz is out of touch with New York State and New York City,” the ad quotes de Blasio saying.

    “He’s got a lot of nerve,” the ad says in response. “De Blasio’s socialist policies are tearing this city apart.”

    The ad says that murder in the city is up nearly 10 percent and cops are treated “like criminals.” It also accuses the mayor of making New York a “sanctuary city, rolling out the red carpet for illegals.

  12. 12.

    Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian

    In his book-lined study, Jim Gilmore listens to the latest news. He switches off the radio and takes a sip of Scotch. A sly smile creeps across his face.

  14. 14.

    Ken

    @Germy: I’m sure those days will return when he actually has to try to lead the House, but for now Ryan’s cruising on the agreements Boehner made with the Democrats before he resigned.

  15. 15.

    rikyrah

    Yeah, nothing could go wrong with this.

    ………..

    Pittsburgh Police on alert after armed Donald Trump supporters say they will confront protesters
    April 13, 2016

    Some Donald Trump supporters appear to be a bit overzealous in the run-up to the Republican Presidential candidate’s visit to Pittsburgh later today.

    Yesterday, an open-carry support group posted a message on Reddit saying they would be armed and patrolling outside Trump’s Oakland appearance. The goal was to inhibit potential protesters. Trump is holding a town hall meeting with Fox News’ Sean Hannity inside the Soldiers and Sailors Memorial Hall at 5:30 p.m. A screenshot sent to City Paper yesterday afternoon details plans for a group of 50 people to patrol in loops armed with guns around Oakland blocks to stop potential protesters from starting roadblocks. The screenshot has since circulated on social media but appears to have been removed from Reddit.

    The posts says “the majority of us will us will be open carrying sidearms and long arms (AR-15 style preferred, but AK’s and such are fine)… This isn’t gonna be a place to mess around!” The post also states that the group plans to meet at the Mazeroski Field at 12:30 p.m. and to use two-way radios to communicate.

  17. 17.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: De Blasio’s “CP” time joke was cringe worthy but otherwise he seems like a cool guy. That ad is straight out of a Rightwing fantasy land. I love how holding cops accountable for their crimes is a bad thing for conservatives who always preach about taking responsibility for your actions.

  19. 19.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Patricia Kayden: Nope. That op-ed, or whatever you want to call it is several points off of reality. I don’t claim to be able to do literature analysis, English professors shouldn’t try to do political analysis.

  20. 20.

    Alex.S

    @Patricia Kayden: The short version — neither Bernie nor Hillary will likely have a majority of delegates without getting the support of the unpledged (super) delegates.

    Therefore… here are all the reasons why Sanders should get all the super delegates and therefore win the primary at the convention. The article writer just shrugs at the idea that the winner of the pledged delegate race and the majority of voters should win the primary. In reality, the super delegates will weight in after the Washington D.C. primary and vote for the pledged delegate winner. Which is exactly what happened in 2008, when Obama also needed the superdelegates to win a majority of delegates.

    In case you were wondering, it’s from the same author that wrote “Kasich will be the Republican nominee” and “Sanders is currently winning the Democratic Primary”… both articles written in the last month.

  21. 21.

    Germy

    @Ken:

    I’m sure those days will return when he actually has to try to lead the House, but for now Ryan’s cruising on the agreements Boehner made with the Democrats before he resigned.

    The cats are asleep; their bellies are full of fancy feast. Ryan putters around, scooping litterboxes, arranging cat toys. He thinks he’s herding.

  22. 22.

    Anne Laurie

    @Patricia Kayden: Not particularly — even the article you linked (and I’d take anything from HuffPo with a whole shaker of salt) ends:

    …If the two competing arguments above look like a 93 percent-to-7 percent Clinton win to you, congratulations — you don’t struggle with cognitive dissonance and the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia this July is likely to make perfect sense to you.

    What Seth Goodman, Professor of Experimental Writing, seems to be doing is aggregating the arguments for & against the superdelegates voting for either Clinton or Sanders. Despite the clickbait headline — which he isn’t responsible for — the math says Clinton will have a clear majority of pledged delegates plus a lead in the popular vote. So the superdelegates will have no incentive to switch to Bernie apart from vague arguments/threats about polling-vs-generic-Repub and whether HRC will be under indictment (spoiler: nope).

    There may be a rump of Sandernistas who make a fuss at the convention, and no doubt the media is already poised in hopes of DRAMA!!! and BOTH SIDES!!! But I believe the vast majority of Bernie primary voters who’ve already said, here and elsewhere, that they support the Democratic nominee regardless of their personal preferences. It’s not as exciting as a band of bros threatening to William Wallace the convention… but then, even Wallace’s most fervent supporters don’t pretend the man won.

  24. 24.

    Alex.S

    As long as we’re open threading and superdelegating…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-democrats-accuse-sanders-supporters-of-harassing-convention-delegates/2016/04/12/0dd97d60-fff4-11e5-9203-7b8670959b88_story.html

    Among those efforts is a website created last week under the name Superdelegate Hit List, providing phone numbers and addresses for superdelegates and encouraging users to submit further contact information, presumably to help advocates pressure them. Site creator Spencer Thayer, a Chicago activist, described the goal this way in a Twitter message: “So who wants to help start . . . a new website aimed at harassing Democratic Superdelegates?”

    ….

    Thayer said the site is entirely separate from the Sanders campaign. Sanders “is irrefutably a better candidate than Hillary Clinton,” he said, but Thayer, an independent, said he did not vote in Illinois’ primary.

    Article originally said that Thayer didn’t vote because Illinois has a closed primary (I’m sure he made that claim to the Washington Post)… but Illinois has open primaries.

    I have to believe that’s an impressive commitment to slacktivism.

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Few can doubt that, from a practical standpoint, the stronger case at a contested Democratic Convention lies with Sanders

    I think we’ve found Peak HuffPo.

  26. 26.

    SarahT

    @rikyrah: Gah what a scumbag Cruz is – Such bullshit ! NYC’s murder rate is at its lowest ever ! Many things to criticize DeBlasio for but that’s not one of ’em.

  29. 29.

    jl

    @Patricia Kayden: I don’t think so. And I have been supporting Sanders. But how can Sanders win by losing every big state primary left, unless he can pull a Michigan style upset in all of them? (Edit: He might eek out a win in CA, or a near tie in NY, but otherwise, I see losses in the remaining big state primaries)

    And, I see the BernieBros have to up their game in harassing delegates to match the Trumpists (or Trumpites, or Trumpeters, whatever you call them):

    GOPers Face Wave Of Threats From Trump Fans Incensed By Delegate Counts

    “Death threats — including threats that describe death by hanging.

    References to where you live.

    Not-so-subtle allusions to your family.

    Warnings that your personal information will soon become public — or perhaps it has already. ”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/death-threats-trump-supporters

  35. 35.

    BR

    @jl:

    Here in CA I’m planning on voting Clinton. Until last week I was thinking of voting Sanders to keep Clinton on her toes, but the Sanders campaign (and Sanders himself) is losing my respect rapidly.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    @WereBear: You made me curious about her stand on the issue. This is the first bullet on her website under criminal justice reform:

    End the era of mass incarceration, reform mandatory minimum sentences, and end private prisons.

  39. 39.

    WarMunchkin

    @Patricia Kayden: Before this week, I had absolutely no idea that something like that would be considered – I thought it was just that the winner of pledged delegates would win. But I think that’s the campaign strategy by Sanders now – deny Clinton a majority composed exclusively of pledged delegates and then fight for the super delegates. If the super delegates vote for Sanders, great; if not, corruption.

  40. 40.

    ruemara

    Look, I’m just not going to support Sanders unless he’s the last person standing. There is no decent alternative to Hilz. The parsing, at this time, is not changing the stark reality of choices.

  44. 44.

    Baud

    @WarMunchkin:

    deny Clinton a majority composed exclusively of pledged delegates and then fight for the super delegates.

    I asked earlier about this in connection with 2008. Obama also did not have a majority composed exclusively of pledged delegates. So Clinton wouldn’t really be in a different position if the polls are accurate.

  45. 45.

    Mnemosyne

    @Miss Bianca:

    Hey, it’s better than the alternative! They tagged it while they were in there so they can keep an eye on it going forward, but reassured me that the amount of titanium is too small to set off metal detectors.

    Besides, I didn’t want to overshare and then not say what the final outcome was. It’s rude to leave the end of a story hanging like that.
    :-)

  48. 48.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Jane Sanders Says Husband’s NY Daily News Interview Was Like ‘An Inquisition’

    “We commented on that afterwards, that it was more of an inquisition, hurry, hurry, interrupt, let’s ask the questions don’t let you even finish your answers,” Sanders said. “We didn’t realize they had planned to release the transcript. So it became a little bit more evident what they were trying to do.”

    When the transcript was published last week, Bernie Sanders was criticized for appearing to struggle to explain some of his campaign talking points, including detailing how he would break up big banks.

    BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA

    Actually it was more like Abbott and Costello doing “Who’s on first?”

    They asked him some soft questions like “how will you break up the banks”, which he was unable to answer, so he blurted out “3rd base!” and now he’s claiming victim hood.

    Glass jaw.

  51. 51.

    Calouste

    @rikyrah:

    School suspensions shot up from 1.7 million in 1974 to 3.1 million in 2000

    The author is not helping their point by
    1) using data that is 16 years old.
    2) using absolute numbers without mentioning that in the same period the population went up by about 30%, and probably school participation increased as well.

  52. 52.

    BR

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Wow, that is sad. I watched and read dozens of such editorial board interviews and their transcripts from various newspapers’ meetings with Obama and Clinton in 2008. It’s standard practice. Can they really be that clueless?

  53. 53.

    kc

    @rikyrah:

    The New Yorker published an excerpt from this a few months ago. I highly recommend it; I’m going to get the book.

  55. 55.

    Anne Laurie

    @Baud: Well, I thought the HRClinton interview deserved some attention, and there’d only been a double-handful of comments posted by the time I went to bed.

    I try not to leave anything too ugly or peculiar as the top morning post, but c’mon!

  56. 56.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Wow! The Super Girls are back for Science Week and they got to go to Oval Office (photo)

    You may remember how they took the media by storm last year (story)

    /fixed

  58. 58.

    Calouste

    @BR: Well, Bernie doesn’t know how to do tax returns and Jane doesn’t know how to get the ones from previous years printed out from TurboTax. So whatever they have done with the money they have pulled in over the years, it wasn’t buying clues.

  65. 65.

    Honus

    I’ve been listening to trump (and also his sycophant Morning Joe) decrying the “undemocratic” primary process. First question, did they not ever take eighth grade civics, in which you learn the difference between a democracy and a republic? And second, why doesn’t it bother them that congress has a large republican majority when the democratic members received five million more votes than the republican caucus.

  66. 66.

    Elie

    @Calouste:

    Isn’t Bernie leaving for the conference at the Vatican at the end of this week? Does anyone know what he is going to be doing and why he is going?

  67. 67.

    dmsilev

    @Baud: Obama finished the 2008 primary with something like 51 percent of the pledged delegates, far below what would have been needed to win absent SD votes. Somehow, things worked out.

    I’m still of the opinion that the Sanders team is pushing this angle solely to keep their campaign viable over the last phase of primary season. If Clinton ends up with a majority of the pledged, precisely none of her SD supporters will have any reason to switch, and she already has enough announced supporters to take her from a pledged majority to an absolute majority.

    Tempest in a teapot, in other words.

  68. 68.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Obama Frees the Slaves

    Obama is forgiving the student loans of nearly 400,000 people

    The Department of Education will send letters to 387,000 people they’ve identified as being eligible for a total and permanent disability discharge, a designation that allows federal student loan borrowers who can’t work because of a disability to have their loans forgiven. The borrowers identified by the Department won’t have to go through the typical application process for receiving a disability discharge, which requires sending in documented proof of their disability. Instead, the borrower will simply have to sign and return the completed application enclosed in the letter.

    Often borrowers losing out on these benefits aren’t even aware that they’re eligible for a disability discharge, said Persis Yu, the director of the Student Loan Borrower Assistance Project at the National Consumer Law Center.

    Keep racking up points on the scoreboard, Mr President.

  69. 69.

    BR

    @dmsilev:

    I think this will be pretty cleanly resolved by either Obama or Biden when the time comes — a simple comment in a major press conference by Obama to that effect will send a clear signal that will change things (“When the primaries were over in 2008, I had won because I earned the most delegates from the voters, and Sen. Clinton honorably recognized that at the time.”)

  70. 70.

    Calouste

    @Elie: I don’t know exactly what he is going to be doing (attending a conference or something), but as for the why, being out of the country on Tax Day conveniently allows him to avoid questions about his tax returns, although there might be other reasons as well.

  72. 72.

    Mnemosyne

    @Elie:

    The doctor probably simplified it for my non-medically trained brain. ;-) Basically, it’s a small benign fibrous mass in my breast that’s now been tagged like mountain lion so they can keep an eye on it.

    I don’t know why it amuses me that I’ve been tagged, but it does. Hopefully I don’t turn out to have some weird and heretofore medically unknown allergy to titanium or something.

  74. 74.

    Percysowner

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Shorter Bernie. Hillary must release every transcript of every speech she ever gave! The newspaper released a transcript of my interview? But transcripts are sacred, confidential documents! How dare they? And Hillary has to release every transcript from every speech she ever gave!

  76. 76.

    Elie

    @Calouste:

    The debate on Thursday offers Hillary a great opportunity to stick in the shiv and get the media more focused on those darned, elusive returns.. He needs someone asking about them everytime he gets near a microphone. Someone yesterday thought he might drag it out until its forgotten, but after all the hoo-ha he’s made about speeches and whatever with Wall Street and corruption and such — I just wanna know why we still don’t have anything but a summary. Being ungenerous on donations just doesn’t seem to be that big a deal to me to merit all this avoidance and excuse making…

  77. 77.

    Redshift

    @WarMunchkin:

    Before this week, I had absolutely no idea that something like that would be considered – I thought it was just that the winner of pledged delegates would win.

    What, just because it completely contradicts the argument earlier in the Sanders campaign that the problem with superdelegates was that they were undemocratic? They pretty much permanently lost me when they went to wingnut levels of “decide the answer we want and work backwards to find the argument.” I can handle political partisans using whatever tactics work, but not from people who started out loudly claiming to be motivated only by principle.

    The “majority of overall delegates only counting pledged delegates” is pure BS from Weaver (and echoed by many others), designed to obfuscate the fact that in the scenario he’s describing, they’ve lost.

  80. 80.

    Elie

    @Mnemosyne:

    Its all good! You tend to get more so tagging allows them to differentiate new from old should the numbers increase. (Don’t worry) All is well…Fibroadenomas do not put you at increased risk for the big C but like every woman, there is just the background risk you already have.

  81. 81.

    eemom

    Just for the purpose of venting, can I note how much I HATE that Moonrag hack Byron York, AND his hideous hairdo?

  83. 83.

    Elie

    @Baud:

    Yes. I am really curious whether they will just dance around each other or if Bernie will keep up his negative stuff. I think she should be careful not to overdo it, but she needs to mess with him a little…. I can see those tax returns as pissing him off and would be a perfect rejoinder when he comes waltzing in about her financial relations with whoever…

  84. 84.

    Matt McIrvin

    Just saw a Bernie fan in my Facebook feed gloating that “the old broad is getting desperate again” because she’s going to lose the superdelegates “JUST LIKE LAST TIME.”

  85. 85.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    WaPo gives Sanders another 4 Pinocchios for repeatedly lying about his tax returns

    Jane Sanders, the wife of Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, is the keeper of tax records in the household, according to the candidate. Yet she repeated a claim similar to her husband’s recent Four Pinocchio statement that the couple released their full tax returns over several years. (This claim earned the “fact-checkers’ trifecta,” when the three major fact-checking organizations — Washington Post Fact Checker, PolitiFact and FactCheck.org — debunk the same claim.)

  86. 86.

    Redshift

    Oh, also, we got the results of the local delegate process yesterday, and I’m going to be a Clinton delegate to the Virginia state Democratic convention! I’ve been a delegate every time since ’04. I probably won’t run to be a national convention delegate this year, because I never win, but I’ll definitely be going. I’ll either be a volunteer, or I’ll cadge a pass from one of the officials I’ve helped get elected.

  87. 87.

    eemom

    @Elie:

    Isn’t Bernie leaving for the conference at the Vatican at the end of this week? Does anyone know what he is going to be doing and why he is going?

    According to Kropadope the Wise, he needs some R&R to take his mind off his “moribund” campaign. (See early a.m. Daily News thread)

  89. 89.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    Excellent news! And for all the incompetence and hassles they put you through, that was right quick of them to notify you only one day after the procedure. I am glad and relieved for you.

  90. 90.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Today is my only child’s 40th birthday. How can that be?

    I have the Hamilton bio on kindle. I got it that way partly because I didn’t want to have to hold that big book as I read while eating.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    @Elie: Me too! It’ll be interesting.

    @Redshift: Congrats. One of the items on my bucket list is attending the national convention . . . as the nominee.

  97. 97.

    Elie

    @Redshift:

    I am hoping by some miracle to get to go to the state. I am a Clinton delegate and our legislative and County convention is May 1st. I expect chaos because being organized just aint part of the Democratic makeup here in WA, but I am going to see how I can “work it” baby. Are there any committees you think are the best? (rules, credential, etc). This is my first time…

  99. 99.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m wondering how much sexist language I’m going to have to just shrug and ignore because it’s too cranky to do anything else. Is “broad” too common to worry about? How about “whore,” as someone on here called Clinton yesterday? Is this just small beans? Does it matter?

    I think I’ll go read about Hamilton and Adams hating one another.

  100. 100.

    Jeffro

    Wait…I thought I told everyone last night to stop it with this Hillary vs Bernie stuff…what gives?

    LOL

    People, not only did story break that Ted Cruz once tried to justify – as in a court of law – that some folks shouldn’t own dildos, Cruz’s college roommate piped up to let us all know that Cruz should be the last person on Earth trying to bar others from self-gratification.

    Also, the pre-emptive exodus of GOP pols from their convention in Cleveland continues. It’s looking like it’s going to be Trump, a couple hundred junior Brownshirts, and a couple of kazoos.

    Let the good times roll!
    Also, I already voted in the Dem primaries so who cares – just give me a nominee and let’s steamroll the Klown Circus!

  101. 101.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud:

    @Anne Laurie: You know how we are. If you change the routine, people becomeBaud! becomes disoriented and confused.

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne

    @gogol’s wife:

    Mine is sitting on my desk at work trying to lure me into reading it on company time. Only two and a half hours to go until I can take it home and be alone with it.

    (I pre-ordered mine back in January. First Edition, bitchez!)

  104. 104.

    Anne Laurie

    @Elie: This Politico article was the most recent update I could find on Sanders’ proposed visit to the Vatican. Seems like not everybody thinks it’s a great idea, but we’ll know more as events unfold.

  110. 110.

    Jeffro

    @lamh36:

    I STILL don’t have no idea what the hell Dr Strange is about

    Oh no worries, plenty of us will be glad to tell you in extensive detail =)

    but damned if this isn’t ANOTHER great Marvel trailer!

    True indeed! Looks like Marvel might have another well-done flick on its hands (albeit an origin story, which I thought they were done with for a while).

  111. 111.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    @Alex.S:

    In case you were wondering, it’s from the same author that wrote “Kasich will be the Republican nominee” and “Sanders is currently winning the Democratic Primary”… both articles written in the last month.

    Bill Kristol has a new pseudonym?

  113. 113.

    debbie

    Have there really been no posts today about the big banks’ failure to assure the regulators they wouldn’t destroy the financial system all over again? And then, magically, after being told to go back to the drawing board, profit forecasts are scaled back?

    They’ve learned nothing.

  114. 114.

    Elie

    @Anne Laurie:

    According to Margaret Archer who is one of the folks involved in organizing this meeting:

    Archer said. Sanders’ use of the meeting is “clearly a pretext,” she added. “There are just 20 academics and there will be nothing of policy relevance.”

    Unless he has some speaking role, it seems like a waste of time as has been already said….

  118. 118.

    Origuy

    @Baud:

    You know how we are. If you change the routine, people become disoriented and confused.

    I thought that was cats that don’t like changes in a routine.

  120. 120.

    Baud

    @Elie:

    There are just 20 academics

    Oh, man. The entire conference will be a heated debate about what to order for lunch.

  123. 123.

    Redshift

    @Elie: I’ve never been on any of the committees. I know I should if I want to be a bigwig, but I have a low tolerance for boring meetings. So honestly, the whole thing is mostly ritual, but it’s fun to be a part of. My congressional district convention has a reputation for spending inordinate amounts of time passionately debating resolutions on contentious national issues, which will all be thrown out at the state level even if they’re passed.

    I don’t know how different things are there, but based on my experience here, if imagine your chances are pretty good. Since everyone has to pay their own way to the state convention, there’s rarely a big surplus of people who want to go.

  124. 124.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Matt McIrvin: Yes, but any woman can tell you that if you object, someone tells you not to overreact or be so sensitive. And maybe i am overreacting and being too sensitive. There’s no objective standard here, so I’m trying to calibrate my measuring stick. I believe that mostly it’s best to give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes, they need educating even if they mean well.

  125. 125.

    Keith G

    Waiting for the lamb chops to come out of the oven, I have been using the Periscope app to check in on videos being recorded at Bernie Sanders’ Washington Park rally in New York City. It’s a nice early evening for an outdoor event and the crowd seems to be in good spirits and having a nice time.

  127. 127.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Tom Levenson: I was once at an Engligh dept meeting in which something was being argued about, and someone asked the chair how long we were going to talk about this, and he said, “Until everyone has said what they had to say.” At that point, I thanked FSM for tenure and left.

  128. 128.

    Redshift

    @Jeffro: Yeah, especially since I thought I had read that it definitely wasn’t going to be one. It may be that it isn’t mostly, but has origin story elements, and that’s what they’re giving us in the trailer because it doesn’t give away the plot.

  133. 133.

    Jeffro

    @Redshift: That’s a great point about them using origin-stuff in the trailer to keep the real plot under wraps.

    Speaking of Dr. Strange…who was a member of the Defenders (not the upcoming Netflix one but the ahem real Defenders)…which also had the Sub-Mariner as a member…do any of you all know when ol’ Namor will be making an appearance in the MCU?

  134. 134.

    Elie

    @Redshift:

    Good info. Yes, there is an inordinate amount of time spent on discussing resolutions in our local Whatcom county meetings. Not my favorite thing but if I wanna play, I gotta pay, right? I am just curious and sick and tired of some of the old foggies who run things… Powerpoint, for chrisakes, is a major innovation in how to present information! Sure, its hard for working young parents to be a part of this, so we have quite a few middle agers and above, but honestly, some of them are pretty narrow in their experience with the wider world and I think that hurts our party. I will give it a shot and will bring my velvet rather than sharp elbows. People here are pretty unresponsive to fast talking and too much direct confrontation. I have had to learn to put aside my East Coast ways up here in the NW!

  136. 136.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Phumzile Mlambo ‏@phumzileunwomen

    Impressed by the girls challenging stereotypes at @WhiteHouse Science Fair today #SmartGirlsAsk #WHScienceFair

    3 retweets 5 likes

  137. 137.

    joes527

    @Patricia Kayden: Huffington post.

    “If there isn’t news, we’ll make some up.”

    The tell is early in the story. They are measuring based on winning the total delagate race with pledged delegates alone. This is a nonsense goal. But it makes the race look *exciting* so it gets spun.

  140. 140.

    smith

    @Elie: I think I’ve been there. My son lives in Bellingham, so I get up that way pretty often. VERY nice part of the country.

  141. 141.

    John S.

    @Elie:

    Hillary needling Bernie about his tax returns is the perfect rejoinder to her being too cozy with Wall Street? Sorry, but I’m not seeing it.

    He has a much easier resolution to his problem (provide your damn tax returns) than she does.

  144. 144.

    Tracy Ratcliff

    @Elie: Only the lawyers know for sure, but Namor is probably tied up with the Fantastic Four license that Fox has.

  147. 147.

    Elie

    @John S.:

    Ok – what I meant is that he is referring to her poor character, he lying and evasion… That is an entry point for his evasions don’t you think? Yeah, ok, the Wall Street reference may not sing, but he does nothing except accuse her of lapses that he has. And by the way, he is no stranger to the military industrial complex, though she can’t make much of that. Yeah, all he has to do is provide them. Why doesn’t he then?

  148. 148.

    Calouste

    @Matt McIrvin: The Bernies are devolving into a Cargo Cult. Their reasoning now goes along the lines of “8 years ago Hillary Clinton ran against a little know Senator and lost. Now she runs against a little know Senator, so she surely must also lose.”

    I sense that there are massive grifting opportunities on the left that are going unexploited so far. Or maybe no longer since Devine and Weaver found their frontman.

  149. 149.

    Elie

    @smith:

    It IS beautiful and low key. sometimes TOO low key, but always beautiful. Where are you traveling from when you see your son?

  151. 151.

    Mnemosyne

    @A Ghost To Most:

    I think I convinced my ultrasound technician to try and get Hamilton tickets when it’s in LA. Apparently she and her daughter are big musical fans, because when I said it was a sung-through musical, she said, “You mean like Evita?”

    Yep, she and her daughter will love it.

  152. 152.

    Calouste

    @John S.: If releasing tax returns was an easy solution for Sanders, he could have already done it. That he hasn’t suggest that it is not an easy solution.

  153. 153.

    smith

    @Elie: I live in Chicago, which has its charms, but none of them manifest as mountains, seaside, islands, wilderness, etc.

  154. 154.

    Elie

    @smith:

    REally! I am originally from Chi town and its my family home…. (GREAT city)! Well, it was a great city before Rahm Emanuel — and the Chicago Police Dept. sigh.

  157. 157.

    japa21

    @Calouste: Let’s put it this way. It is just as reasonable to speculate that his not releasing the tax returns means something nefarious as Clinton speaking to GS means she is in bed with the bankers. In fact, I think it is more reasonable to assume the non-release of tax returns means something nefarious.

  160. 160.

    Weaselone

    @Calouste:
    It might also be the bait in a trap. He might be waiting for Hillary to challenge him on it. He can then release them and then demand Hillary do the same with her speech transcripts.

  167. 167.

    Tom Q

    In case anyone’s in doubt about how cynical this Weaver ploy is, saying Hillary has to get a convention majority in pledged delegates alone, a little math:

    There are only 4051 pledged delegates. To get to 2383, a convention majority, a candidate would have to get 58.8% of them. Hillary has right now roughly 54.5%. She may expand that percentage on the 19th and 26th, but she’d need more than 65% of remaining pledged delegates to get over the line without super-delegate help. This is something that CLEARLY cannot happen under the proportional delegate allocation. Hillary’s got something like 58% of votes, and it’s only translated to that 54.5% in delegates. To hit 65%, she’d need like 70%, maybe more, of outstanding votes. It’s deeply cynical of Weaver to throw this out to his low-information supporters, giving them something to obsess/grouse about at a time when the actual situation would dictate statesmanship and reconciliation.

    And since I’m on math, let me point out that, 1) were all primaries winner-take-all, Hillary would have 69% of delegates and 2) even a modified WTA — where, say, it was proportional if you got as much as 40%, but winner-take-all lower than that — she’d have 62%. The proportional system as currently constituted is the only thing that enables Sanders’ supporters to imagine they’re even close, and it’s beyond cynical for Weaver to exploit that to make party unity more elusive.

  169. 169.

    Kropadope

    @rikyrah:

    The ad says that murder in the city is up nearly 10 percent and cops are treated “like criminals.” It also accuses the mayor of making New York a “sanctuary city, rolling out the red carpet for illegals.

    I’m damn near certain, without further examination, that the cops treated as criminals and the red carpet for illegals bits are false (I believe while not knowing these assertions as fact because I do know for a fact the same false claims are made about Obama policies and statements).

    But what about the first bit? Is going from on all-time low murder rate of 333 in 2014 to 350 in 2015 really that big a deal when you had numbers approaching 3000 in 1990?

  171. 171.

    Mandalay

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I’m wondering how much sexist language I’m going to have to just shrug and ignore

    I expect the colored people might be asking the same thing about Clinton’s racist language.

  172. 172.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @smith:
    @Elie:

    It’s kind of amazing, the number of current or former Chicagoland peeps in the BJ community. Mnem, raven, BGinCHI, and me, to name just four in addition to you two. There must be many others.

    Such a great city. My siblings and cousin and I had a family reunion there (well, in our home town, Oak Park) for a full week last fall and just wallowed in being tourists and revisiting a lot of childhood haunts.

  174. 174.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Mandalay: I’ve thought about this in terms of the racist language we’ve all seen, but it’s been my experience that women are expected to tolerate sexist language with good humor, which makes it hard to recognize sometimes.

  176. 176.

    Alain the site fixer

    Hope mobile site tweaks are acceptable to all. I made it in line with the desktop site and long links and such should be much better behaved. Will likely add a bit of padding here and there in the morning.

  177. 177.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Mnemosyne: Coming in very late to join in the good wishes about your boob, and to add to this:

    but reassured me that the amount of titanium is too small to set off metal detectors.

    that I have a very large piece of titanium/steel in my body and it has never set off a metal detector, and I used to fly a lot.

  183. 183.

    david10

    The bernies have reached a republican state of mind. That state of mind is that no Democrat could possibly legitimately win the presidency and therefore any action they(the republicans)take is justified. The bernies feel the same way about HRC.
    Don’t be surprised if Sanders gives the sourest concession and support speech in history.

  185. 185.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    “My doll is as dainty as a sparrow,
    Her figure is something to applaud:
    Where she’s narrow, she’s as narrow as an arrow,
    And she’s broad
    Where a broad
    Should be broad.”

  186. 186.

    Mike J

    @Elie:

    Well, it was a great city before Rahm Emanuel — and the Chicago Police Dept. sigh.

    The Chicago police department have been thugs for over 100 years. You just never heard about it until everybody carried a video camera in their pocket.

  187. 187.

    starscream

    Man…Tom Perez is awesome, but I just saw a clip of him campaigning for Hillary and man…he had a ton of flop sweat. Don’t know how that would play.

  189. 189.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Jeffro: Last I heard, there were still some rights issues with Namor.

    Which might explain why they killed him off in the comics late last year.

  190. 190.

    Mnemosyne

    @Mike J:

    Oh, we heard about it. Even suburban white kids were terrified of Chicago PD when I was growing up in the 80s.

    It took the rest of the country a while to catch on.

  191. 191.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Mnemosyne: Saw your good news upthread. Yay!

    If I lived closer, there would be some of my hubby’s homemade truffles on their way to enjoy with the Hamiltome.

  197. 197.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @gogol’s wife: Love-starved nurse, surely. Were you thinking “There Is Nothin’ Like A Dame” and quoting “Honey Bun”?

  200. 200.

    Miss Bianca

    @Matt McIrvin: this is one of the reasons I’ve forsworn the Book of Faces for the nonce. Perhaps for all time. (I prefer this joint for socio-political talk, and now even the socializing is more entertaining,)

  201. 201.

    MomSense

    Speaking of stomach turning, my mom gave the dog an oatmeal raisin cookie so now we have to induce vomiting.

    Ugh

  202. 202.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Mandalay: it depends on your life experiences. if you grew up in an integrated city and sat side by side with black children from K to 12, or if you had roommates who are black, or if you have dated someone who was black you’d know CPT is a common joke. I’m sure that’s how de Blasio came up with the joke – from his extended family.

    For example, here’s another person, who is pretty damn funny, using the joke at a convention of black journalists to roaring laughter (Video)

  204. 204.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mnemosyne: Just so’s you knows from others, don’t worry about the titanium. I think it’s supposed to be hypo-allergenic, for one thing, or for another, it won’t set off the metal detectors. I got a face full of it and it hasn’t yet!

  205. 205.

    Mandalay

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    it depends on your life experiences.

    Sure, and you can certainly find plenty of people who find negative racial stereotyping hilarious. But Democratic presidential candidates shouldn’t go anywhere near that toxic swill.

    Don’t defend the indefensible just because it was Clinton – you are far better than that.

    ETA: Your link was interesting, but you are comparing apples and oranges.

  206. 206.

    Kropadope

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The sexism is often not very well hidden at all.

    Yeah, like the sexist remark I made about her excessive willingness to use military force. I’m not sure what was sexist about it but several commenters assured me it was. If I had to guess, it was probably the fact that I disagreed with Hillary Clinton. This is 2016, I should know better.

  211. 211.

    Trapped in Ohio

    @Kropadope:
    Does it always have to be about you? Maybe, just maybe, they were speaking about some other some other people saying shit; not you. Get over yourself.

  212. 212.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Mnemosyne: Probably too late now, but: page 151.

    Also, google Daily Daveed Diggs.

    You’re welcome.

  214. 214.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Chris Hayes a few minutes ago referred to Denny Hastert as the “clean page” for the House GOP after Gingrich and Livingston, and expressed shock that a man with his past would willingly enter public life. The word “page” set me thinking: Was Hastert’s past the reason his Speaker’s office was slow to look into the rumors about Mark Foley.

  218. 218.

    Kropadope

    @Trapped in Ohio: @Omnes Omnibus: I just wanted to point out that I know from experience that the spuriousness of a lot of claims of sexism aren’t very well hidden at all.

    ETA: See also: The Clinton campaign’s attacks on Bernie for being sexist for decrying the tone of the national gun debate.

    Also, the frequent assertions here that gesturing with you index finger, like Bernie does sometimes when he’s talking, is sexist.

    But gesturing with your thumb, that’s leadership.

  221. 221.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Kropadope: Didn’t Team Bernie just get in a dither about Barney Frank, who, they said, by saying Bernie’s answers to the Daily News interview were incoherent was clearly taking a shot at his age?

  222. 222.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kropadope:

    the spuriousness of a lot of claims of sexism aren’t very well hidden at all.

    Dear God, enough of your ill-humored, ill-informed ick. Do you have to *work* at being an annoying little squit, or do you find that it comes naturally to you?

  223. 223.

    Kropadope

    @FlipYrWhig: They did and I’m not too impressed with team Bernie either. Still, team Clinton got them beat by a mile for mendacity and faux outrage.

  225. 225.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Kropadope, NR, Heliopause, Jade, debbie and Applejinx (where is Applejinx?) are The Vanguard of Bernie’s Revolution. How could it possibly be failing?

  226. 226.

    Kropadope

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I was taking a different approach, but your racist ass was instrumental in convincing me to change it.

    ETA: Plus, I wouldn’t vote for Bernie if he somehow pulled the nomination off anyway. He ran as a Democrat, the name Democrat is poison as far as I’m concerned.

  227. 227.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Applejinx had a couple of comments disappear presumably do to FYWP, assumed that s/he had been banned, appeared briefly with a modified ‘nym to delver a GBCW, and has not, to my knowledge, been seen again.

  228. 228.

    Corner Stone

    @Kropadope:

    Plus, I wouldn’t vote for Bernie if he somehow pulled the nomination off anyway. He ran as a Democrat, the name Democrat is poison as far as I’m concerned.

    WTF is this all about? Weren’t you just All Things Anti Hillary? Now it’s against Democratic politicians in sum?

  229. 229.

    Trapped in Ohio

    @Kropadope:
    Well golly gee, maybe the act of pointing your finger at someone versus making a thumbs up gesture are different things to different people. Wagging one’s finger can be perceived to be scolding while a thumbs up is more positive and encouraging.

  230. 230.

    Corner Stone

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    assumed that s/he had been banned, appeared briefly with a modified ‘nym to delver a GBCW, and has not, to my knowledge, been seen again.

    Thankfully, he added.

  232. 232.

    Kropadope

    @Corner Stone: I’m boycotting the whole party. Top to bottom. And I was planning on voting for Hillary right up until I decided not to vote for another Democrat ever.

    @Trapped in Ohio:

    Wagging one’s finger can be perceived to be scolding while a thumbs up is more positive and encouraging.

    They make fundamentally the same gesture except with neighboring fingers. This is silliness.

  234. 234.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Thanks – missed all that. Several people told him to step away, so I’m glad he did. I hope he’s enjoying being in Vermont working to get Bernie re-elected there (because that’s where he belongs), and comes back when it’s time to support Hillary.

    @Corner Stone:

    This also too.

  235. 235.

    Trapped in Ohio

    @Kropadope:
    How do they make “fundamentally” the same gesture. What you’re saying is silliness. Which is a shame because up thread and in the past when I was more of a lurker I thought you made good points in your comments. This whole business about boycotting the whole Democratic party is absurd and childish. I’m done, do what you want

  237. 237.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope:

    Clinton thumb. The gesture dubbed the “Clinton thumb” after one of its most famous users, Bill Clinton, is used by politicians to provide emphasis in speeches. This gesture has the thumb leaning against the thumb-side portion of the index finger, which is part of a closed fist, or slightly projecting from the fist. An emphatic, it does not exhibit the anger of the clenched fist or pointing finger, and so is thought to be less threatening.[13] This gesture was likely adopted by Clinton from John F. Kennedy, who can be seen using it in many speeches and images from his political career.[13]

    Source.

  240. 240.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Kropadope:

    I’m boycotting the whole party. Top to bottom. And I was planning on voting for Hillary right up until I decided not to vote for another Democrat ever.

    Sure you were. Now pull the other one!

  241. 241.

    Kropadope

    @Trapped in Ohio:

    This whole business about boycotting the whole Democratic party is absurd and childish.

    I’m on a mission. Also, how is raising you’re index finger straight up and moving your hand in and out while speaking that different than raising your thumb straight up and moving your hand in and out. It’s just petty partisans manufacturing something to be mad about and of course they go straight to “sexist.”

  242. 242.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Missed this one today

    Speaker at Bernie Sanders rally: “Please do not believe the bullshit… the status quo sucks.”
    Adds that we need to kick out the “corporate Democratic whores” and replace them with “Bernie-crats.”

  243. 243.

    Kropadope

    @Gin & Tonic: So, the times I complimented Hillary on her campaign organization, the times I defended her about some nonsense or the other (mostly re:Benghazi but other things also), the several times I flat out said I was going to vote for her; do you think I was lying then?

  247. 247.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Compare and contrast:

    Obama – creates a winning diverse electoral coalition and leaves the Democratic party stronger with a blueprint and infrastructure to win.

    Bernie – alienates everyone he possibly can and has no good will to draw on or a realistic plan to build anything, and he and his supporters are dismissive and harrass anyone who points that fact out.

  249. 249.

    tastytone

    “He ran as a Democrat, the name Democrat is poison as far as I’m concerned”

    O Democrat, Democrat! Wherefore art thou Democrat?
    Deny thy donors and refuse thy name.
    Or, if thou wilt not, be hence sworn my foe,
    And I’ll forever be a Indie-dude.

  250. 250.

    Kropadope

    @Major Major Major Major: The Democrats are useless when not outright hostile to anyone to the left of Joe Lieberman. The lies. Changes in party culture. I’ve gone into more detail about my motivation in other threads. I’m sure you don’t care to read about it, but earlier today I did discuss one little important detail of this position I’m taking here on Balloon Juice that might be of interest to you.

  251. 251.

    Corner Stone

    @tastytone:
    Come, come, you wasp; i’ faith, you are too angry.
    If I be waspish, best beware my sting.
    My remedy is then to pluck it out.
    Ay, if the fool could find it where it lies.
    Who knows not where a wasp does wear his sting?
    In his tail.

  253. 253.

    Corner Stone

    @Kropadope:

    the several times I flat out said I was going to vote for her; do you think I was lying then?

    Yes. Because you said many more times that you wished a Republican be elected than HRC. Because.

  254. 254.

    Matt McIrvin

    Occasionally Sanders supporters have commented here asking if Clinton supporters will vote for Sanders in the general. I guess we should have been asking them if they would.

  255. 255.

    Kropadope

    @Joel: Oh, I’m still coming here. Even on the days when I don’t post. It’s a good source for news and interesting links but, frankly, the several-times-every-day occurrence of Hillary fans jerking their hate-ons for Bernie and his supporters over 100s of posts regardless of the topic of the OP and the presence of lack thereof of someone supporting Bernie is really ugly to see.

  256. 256.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kropadope: and again, on behalf of Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, others too numerous to type, and myself, go fuck yourself you useless little emoprog. Politics isn’t about making you feel special.

  258. 258.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: You’re one to talk. You have been such a dick to me, long before I decided to stop supporting any Democrats for office. You have attacked me frequently by lying about what I said. There have even been instances where I outright complimented Hillary or some other Dem officeholder with no qualifiers, no hint whatsoever of backhandedness, and you twisted it into some BS to attck me for. You’re among the worst here, speaking of which…

    @Corner Stone:

    Yes. Because you said many more times that you wished a Republican be elected than HRC

    Except I never said that. I said if she lost, I would enjoy watching the swinging dicks from her fanclub on Balloon Juice wailing and gnashing their teeth. Those are not the same thing.

  260. 260.

    Corner Stone

    @Kropadope:

    Except I never said that.

    Holy fuck. Holy fucking fuckballs.
    You have said multiple times you think having HRC get elected is much worse for the D party than having an R win the election.
    You really want me to find where you said that? Because I can and will you fucking POS.

  262. 262.

    Kropadope

    @Corner Stone: Again, not the same thing as saying I want a Republican in office. Just warning you that you’re playing with fire without adequate protection.

  263. 263.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kropadope: Just warning you that you’re playing with fire without adequate protection.

    Mercy me. Some powerful typing maybe in the offing.

  264. 264.

    tastytone

    @Corner Stone:

    And therefore, since I cannot prove a winner,
    To entertain these fair well-spoken votes,
    I am determined to prove a gadfly,
    And hate the idle platforms of these Dems.
    (Bernie III)

  265. 265.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: I provided one the other day when you asked that, while obtained to address a different reason that you’re an asshole, I believe also contains examples of your misrepresentations.

  266. 266.

    Elie

    @J R in WV:

    I just want to thank you for your wonderful comment about the hawks and spring yesterday — I came back late to the thread and didn’t have the opportunity to tell you how much that I appreciated it.

  269. 269.

    Corner Stone

    @Kropadope: Man, I am going to find my fancy BBQ lined undies and then come back at you. Because playing with fire. And all.
    Maybe sleep it off?
    You have absolutely said here many times that you would rather a Republican be elected over HRC. Because you believe she would long term destroy the D party. You really don’t remember typing that?

  270. 270.

    Kropadope

    @Corner Stone: I said she could potentially do a lot of damage to the party and that she would be a terrible choice. Still, does not equate to supporting Republicans.

  271. 271.

    chopper

    @Kropadope:

    Plus, I wouldn’t vote for Bernie if he somehow pulled the nomination off anyway. He ran as a Democrat, the name Democrat is poison as far as I’m concerned.

    damn son you’ve taken “take my ball and go home” to the next fuckin level. you’re like a level 5 progressive.

  273. 273.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Do I have to do all your work for you? Nearly every conversation I had with you for several months feature your straw men and other assorted distortions. It sounds to me like you didn’t even read the last link I sent you, so why the fuck should I?

  281. 281.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: You asked for the link. You could have the courtesy to follow up. Here is the specific thread I mentioned up thread. This is a rarity in which you actually acknowledged your…let’s call it an error. If you want more examples, there are plenty, but I have better things to do with my time. Finding particular conversations out of the hundreds of threads is time consuming.

  283. 283.

    Kropadope

    @Corner Stone: Again, liking someone does not equate to votes.

    Let me help you. I have said in the past that there are very particular Republicans I would consider, but even that does not raise to the level of “I will support the Republicans” or “I want the Republicans to win.” I haven’t voted for a Republican since I voted for Ted Kennedy’s opponent in 2006 and I don’t plan on doing so any time soon. They were poison to me way before the Democrats were.

  290. 290.

    Kropadope

    @amk: If it took you 8 years to decide that, there has to be a good reason. Maybe I was cursed.

    @Omnes Omnibus: It’s the particular one I mentioned upthread. I don’t keep a list.

  291. 291.

    Soylent Green

    @Kropadope:

    I’m boycotting the whole party. Top to bottom. And I was planning on voting for Hillary right up until I decided not to vote for another Democrat ever.

    Well, bless your heart. Aren’t you just precious.

  295. 295.

    Kropadope

    @Corner Stone: That was tonight. I said I had previously been planning on voting for Hillary, until I decided to boycott the party outright. That was clearly after my decision to boycott the party outright, so not only is that not in the appropriate timeframe, it is also not a statement of support for Republicans or a preference that they win. You have trouble with reading comprehension?

  296. 296.

    Kropadope

    @Corner Stone: I will not vote for a Democrat. In case you’re having trouble with the concept, that doesn’t mean I’m voting for or secretly rooting for Republicans.

  298. 298.

    mclaren

    @lamh36:

    I STILL don’t have no idea what the hell Dr Strange is about…

    The Dr. Strange movie is about a bizarre practitioner of obscure magic who encounters psychedelic experiences in his trip to alternative realities.

    In other words, it’s about a Republican economist.

  301. 301.

    redshirt

    @mclaren:

    The Dr. Strange movie is about a bizarre practitioner of obscure magic who encounters psychedelic experiences in his trip to alternative realities.

    In other words, it’s about a Republican economist.

    That’s a quality joke. And topical too!

  302. 302.

    dogwood

    I do find it amusing that those who find the primary/caucus system that the two major parties use just too corrupt and undemocratic to be tolerated, vote Green, Libertarian, etc. Parties where the insiders pick the candidates.

  304. 304.

    Kropadope

    @dogwood: Speaking of Green Lanternism, how is Hillary going to get all these policies she’s concocting in a back room with her favorite lawyers without Congressional input through Congress?

  305. 305.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope: The way politics in the US works, either a Dem or a Rep will win. Right? I am assuming you know that a GOP win would be an epic catastrophe. That leaves one choice. I take it you disagree with my logic. In my view that makes you immature, self-centered, or a fool.

  307. 307.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: So Democrats and Republicans win every election throughout U.S. history and it must always be that way? I’m pretty sure that’s not true.

    In my view that makes you immature, self-centered, or a fool.

    You’re missing possibilities that would be closer to the mark.

  311. 311.

    Kropadope

    @redshirt:If Dem caucus wants to turn their back on their own party’s president for the second time in a row, cutting off their nose to spite their face, I’ll feel further justified in never voting for a one of them again.

  313. 313.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Also, voting for a Presidential candidate, even if they don’t get elected, doesn’t need to be a total loss. For example, here in MA, there’s a threshold of votes that will allow a third party a guaranteed spot for its candidates in the next election. If I want a better chance to build a third party, they’ll need downballot successes. Guaranteed slots on the ballot will help in that regard.

  314. 314.

    dogwood

    @Kropadope:
    Oh, come on. You want to talk about green lanternism? Senator Sanders raised his profile by going on cable news channels to trash Obama.

  320. 320.

    Kropadope

    @dogwood:

    Oh, come on. You want to talk about green lanternism? Senator Sanders raised his profile by going on cable news channels to trash Obama.

    First, what does that have to do with Green Lanternism? Second, I’m not voting for him either. And fuck the entire Democratic Congressional delegation with a rusty spoon wide end first.

    @Omnes Omnibus: I am dealing with it but telling those of you who are assholes, hypocrites, and liars my opinion about you. Maybe there are more constructive things I can do, but it’s better than taking off to another forum and complaining about at assholes people are on Balloon Juice. You might be thinking, “of course that wouldn’t be a reasonable response.” But part of what the people here have been doing that has me so riled up is blaming BJ Sanders supporters for every mean comment on Twitter. So enjoy this taste of your own medicine.

  322. 322.

    gwangung

    @Kropadope: I bet not raising money to help elect them might have something todo with that. What a REAL motivator to get people to follow you.

    Shit, you can’t even work up enough will power to light a candle. And you firmly stuck your head up your ass.

  323. 323.

    Kropadope

    @chopper: Nope. If you want the real answer, I actually gave up the game earlier today if you care to check the earlier threads.

  327. 327.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope: W’evs. Moi, I don’t believe I have lied about you. The comment you cited as me lying was: 1. debatable and 2. followed, as you acknowledged, by my admission that I may have misinterpreted your comment.

  328. 328.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kropadope: You tiresome, noisy fool. Not only not ashamed of your contrarian ignorance, but proud of it. That makes you a true-blue American, don’t it?

  329. 329.

    Kropadope

    @gwangung: Funny, he told people earlier today to spread their donations out to other candidates, naming three in particular. He recently endorsed Chuy Garcia for Mayor in Chicago. He’s done it in the past and likely will continue to so. He also raises funds for the DSCC.

    Also, if not wasting half his time in Congress doing $10,000/plate fundraisers is a reason for the Dems not to support him, that’s kind of fucked up, because that shit’s broken.

  330. 330.

    Jean

    @Redshift: Good for you, Redshift! I remember back in 2008 and earlier, I think, when you put me in touch with some local VA people and we worked on a couple of campaigns together, including Obama’s.

  331. 331.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: It wasn’t debatable, it was pretty clear-cut. Also, it’s the one you asked for. Given that and given the fact I already explained this twice, you’re arguably being pretty dishonest right now, though mildly.

  333. 333.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Actually, the earliest example I found was of him supporting Jesse Jackson which I’m pretty sure was back in the 80s. Also, supporting the DSCC is a pretty regular thing, so about your dishonesty….

  334. 334.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    He recently endorsed Chuy Garcia for Mayor in Chicago.

    A year ago.

    The main plank of Garcia’s platform was a city wide income tax, which was illegal under the Illinois state constitution. The whole thing was the perfect precursor to the Sanders campaign.

    Three whole candidates. It’s now a four person Revolution. Stand back, Plutocrats!

  335. 335.

    Kropadope

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: So we have examples this year, last year, thirty years ago, plus regular support for an organization that funds Democrats at the national level. Do you think he took a total hiatus from supporting D candidates between 1988 and his election to the Senate or is it possible that you’ve been making a false assertion repeatedly for months out of an antipathy for independents?

    The main plank of Garcia’s platform was a city wide income tax, which was illegal under the Illinois state constitution.

    Am I to understand the IL state constitution doesn’t allow for amendments?

  336. 336.

    dogwood

    @Kropadope:
    You’re the one who brought up green lanternism out of the blue in a comment I made about third parties that wasn’t even addressed to you. And Sanders’ criticism of Obama has always been tied to his belief that the president is a weak leader who could have accomplished more if it weren’t for his lack of will. Pretty much the definition of green lanternism.

  339. 339.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Andrea Bernstein
    ‏@ AndreaWNYC
    Warmup speaker at Bernie rally “don’t listen to the bullshit that the affordable health care act works”

    Stupid, self-indulgent fuckwits, there to rally ’round the stupidest, most self-indulgent fuckwit of them all.

  340. 340.

    dogwood

    @gwangung:
    In fairness to Bernie, he didn’t have to raise obscene amounts of money to run a campaign in Vermont. It’s not a state where millions in outside money will be dumped on you, or where you’ll have strong primary or general election opposition. Hell, he had family on his campaign payroll so they probably made a little money during elections. And since he wasn’t a democrat, he really wasn’t obligated to raise money for a party he didn’t belong to. He took money from the party though. 10k from Hillary in ”06. And I’m fine with that. I would have had more respect for Bernie, if he would have been honest about the situation and acknowledged that it costs a shitload of money to get elected in large states, and we need to do something about it, instead of calling everyone corrupt. Few politicians want to spend their time raising money. Bernie knows this.

  343. 343.

    dogwood

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    If that’s what’s going on at his rallies, then that’s really disappointing. Maybe Sanders approves of that crap, or maybe they don’t vet and set standards for the people they put on the stage. That’s the thing that’s always made me nervous about Bernie – no discipline.

  345. 345.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @dogwood: it’s the emotional (can’t stress that word enough) atmosphere he’s created. Everyone is corrupt but me, any compromise is weakness, the only thing standing between you and [insert liberal fantasy du moment] is the Witch of Wall St!

  348. 348.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Josh Marshall ‏@ joshtpm 1h1 hour ago
    Making up stories abt why youre losing, claiming yr being cheated is not productive. Presumably not what the revolution supposed to bring.
    osh Marshall ‏@ joshtpm 1h1 hour ago
    Was I critical of Clinton on this in 2008? Absolutely. Was awful. But she started reining it in when seemed shed lose.Bernie doing opposite.

  349. 349.

    redshirt

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Republicans were going to hate Barack Obama no matter what, in retrospect. It’s been TOTAL WAR from the moment he took office. Just as Republicans are going to hate President Clinton with the fire of a thousand suns, regardless of Sander’s grace or lack thereof.

  351. 351.

    different-church-lady

    @Adam L Silverman: At this point I can no longer tell is Sanders is trying to become president or merely be responsible for the most monumental psych-ops campaign in political history.

  356. 356.

    Applejinx

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: If this doesn’t post, then I was banned and still am (some folks seemed to think that wasn’t site policy, or the deleting of posts, though)

    If as I suspect it does: for some time, me posting here was about trying to justify also supporting Hillary Clinton, which I was doing about half the time, the other half spent trying to sway folks to Bernie-type issues.

    If I’ve given up on that there’s really no point in bugging people when it’s not going to do the least bit of good.

    I’m giving some guitar lessons, and have been mixing an ‘Americana roots rock’ album for a local guy (both for actual money: yay!), and finishing a book while gearing up to start work on another story: a more appropriate, less didactic way to grapple with political leanings. It’s animation/comics, and I’ve massively splurged on a nearly $40 ‘golden mean caliper’ that’ll help me design character proportions and position elements: it means cutting back on food for a while but that’s nothing new, I already have to calculate food and bills on a week-to-week basis. Always looking for an edge in the crapsack world where only the top 10% or so make a buck.

    If I was posting here and determined that I was going to vote for Clinton and try to make the best of this political system, and then ended up really convinced that it’s all pretty much the same and ruined beyond repair, it’s more polite to stop arguing and go away. Sometimes I peek to see whether people jumped on the latest twitter hashtag outrage, but on the whole, it’s just petty to do anything other than walk away from the whole mess. Honestly, the Democratic Party will probably do better losing to Trump than winning: it’s walking into a level of problems neither candidate is really equipped to handle in practice, but if it’s Hillary then the Democrats will be blamed for it all, and won’t recover.

    Anyway, have your fun. I never minded that, I just thought for a while it was possible to do better.

    (now to see if the ol’ nick posts: if not, I accept blog-muzzling with equinamity)

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