This is misguided and/or disingenuous on so many levels. https://t.co/O6fSNMmfRc
— Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer) April 13, 2016
From the Time article:
Bernie Sanders told “Nightly Show” host Larry Wilmore at a taping Wednesday evening that scheduling Southern states early in the Democratic primary “distorts reality.”
Sanders’ remarks came after Wilmore asked him whether he believed the Democratic primary system is “rigged.”
“Well, you know,” Sanders said, “people say, ‘Why does Iowa go first, why does New Hampshire go first,’ but I think that having so many Southern states go first kind of distorts reality as well.”
Hillary Clinton has overwhelmingly defeated Sanders in Southern primary contests. In South Carolina, the fourth state in the primary, Sanders’ margin of defeat was a landslide 48 points. A few days after that contest, Sanders lost by large margins in Arkansas, Alabama, Texas, Georgia, Virginia on March 1. Sanders also lost Florida and Mississippi, which vote slightly later that month.
Black voters make up a disproportionate share of the Democratic electorate in those Southern states, and constitute a voting bloc in which Sanders has consistently underperformed. The Vermont senator has been more successful in smaller, whiter and more liberal states like Maine, Washington and Minnesota. Sanders has also been able to win a slightly larger portion of black voters in northern states like Michigan and Illinois, exit polls showed…
Southerners’ votes count as much as everyone else’s—whether you won them or not. https://t.co/wI7qmvOP8A
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) April 14, 2016
So, Southern Democrats don’t deserve a say in their party’s nominee? https://t.co/43U68BPag9
— Jamelle Bouie (@jbouie) April 13, 2016
I have not been sold on this question. Why should left wingers follow black voters into corporatist Democrat hell. https://t.co/ND4GWUVoZ2
— Jason Krishnan (@overlayered) April 13, 2016
This is the natural endpoint of these conversations. “Who cares about black voters, we don’t need them.” https://t.co/U7pvHiL0iF
— Jamelle Bouie (@jbouie) April 14, 2016
This comes the day after, as reported in POLITICO, “With Bernie Sanders’ durability exciting progressives at their potential to shape the Democratic race, a coalition of groups — many of them backers of the Vermont senator — are launching a preemptive strike against Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julián Castro, aimed at disqualifying him from consideration to be Hillary Clinton’s running mate….”
Before the inevitable well actuallys : Yes, Clinton made some very sketchy race-based comments back in 2008. And she has apologized for them, quite rightly. I remember being taught that the original Gilded Age progressives believed fighting for incremental change would inevitably lead to better outcomes… and also that part of being “progressive” was learning from predecessors’ mistakes, rather than having to re-invent the wheel every election cycle.
At Sanders rally Tim Robbins berates "mainstream media". Crowd turns to us, and they boo
— Andrea Bernstein (@AndreaWNYC) April 13, 2016
Warmup speaker at Bernie rally "don't listen to the bullshit that the affordable health care act works"
— Andrea Bernstein (@AndreaWNYC) April 13, 2016
At this point, Bernie's warm-up acts are just producing Republican anti-Clinton attack ads for the general election https://t.co/03YTURyhJH
— Yair Rosenberg (@Yair_Rosenberg) April 14, 2016
berliner2
That will work wonders for him with POC voters in the remaining primaries.
Zinsky
It’s sad to see the Democrats do everything in their power to lose an election that should be theirs to win in a landslide. Dog help us all if the theocratic Ted Cruz becomes President!!
Mustang Bobby
I though being lectured on voting rights from an old white guy from the Northeast was Trump’s shtick.
Baud
I would like us to reconsider the order of the states. But also rethink caucuses.
Baud
And what’s the deal with Castro?
BillinGlendaleCA
Would Bernie rather have had New York or California early on when polling was showing him down by 20 in CA and 30 in NY?
Baud
I have speculated that this is what the next realignment will entail. Minorities will align with the business community in one party and white populists will be in the other.
Mustang Bobby
@Baud: Fidel, Raul, Julian, Joaquin, or Convertible?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Personally, I’d replace the caucuses with closed primaries.
Kay
@Baud:
They think the HUD program for distressed mortgages is a fire sale to banks. They wanted more nonprofits who would work with low income borrowers.
StellaB
The man is flailing. Sad.
Baud
@Mustang Bobby: Julian
Why? It’s a Politico link, so no can click.
Baud
@Kay: Thanks. Don’t know anything about that.
geg6
@Baud:
Yeah, I’m not getting the logic here. What’s the point?
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I understand the financing issues with primaries. But I hope someone thinks of something better than what we have now.
Baud
I’ll also repeat what I said the other day. You can imagine a better process, but you can’t translate current results into that process. With a different process in place, everyone’s strategy changes.
Mike J
So much for the 50 state strategy.
BillinGlendaleCA
OT: I just saw on the Morning Joe crawl that Ringo has cancelled his shows in North Carolina. Good show, Mr. Starkey.
Mike J
Kay
@Baud:
The main group mentioned are a liberal Latino group and a liberal Latino House member so it’s a little more complicated than “minority, non-minority”.
My take is a little different – I think it’s almost an admission that they know Sanders can’t win so they;’re moving towards pushing the nominee Left on issues which I would expect Sanders supporters to do.
Mustang Bobby
@BillinGlendaleCA:Well, like he says (or sings) “Got to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues, and you know it don’t come easy.”
EconWatcher
Bernie comes off as a sore loser, because he’s losing any way you slice it. But I think his overall point is actually correct: Frontloading states in the primary process that will never vote Dem in the general is not the best way to do things for the Dems. (But of course, primaries for both parties happen at the same time, and it does make sense for the other guys.)
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mustang Bobby: That was the first hit from an ex-Beatle after the breakup of the group.
Baud
@Kay: it’s all news to me. I don’t know how campaigning against Julian pushes Hillary to the left, however.
OzarkHillbilly
Who cares what states go first? It doesn’t matter what states go first. Whichever ones they are, they will not be representative of anything other than themselves. It is an old and tiresome argument without merit. Somebody has to go first.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: good song
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
/fixed.
Baud
I wish American Samoa could have gone first.
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
It least Sanders didn’t refer to them as the Confederate States, which I’ve seen. Horrible way to describe southern black primary voters.
Kay
@Baud:
I actually DO think he’s considered a New Democrat in some more liberal circles- “market-based solutions”, that sort of thing. I think that’s his general identity.
Mustang Bobby
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, and it beats the snot out of “Uncle Albert Admiral Halsey.”
BillinGlendaleCA
@EconWatcher: States that did not vote for the party’s ticket in past elections get a reduced delegate allocation as opposed to states that did vote for the party’s ticket.
Kay
@EconWatcher:
Bernie would have a better argument if he had won Illinois and Ohio. I was willing to consider his “southerners are more conservative” thing until then.
Baud
@Kay: I’m ashamed to admit I don’t know much about him.
I wish the Democrats had a magazine I could subscribe to.
OzarkHillbilly
@EconWatcher: In 2008 and 2012, both NH and IA went for Obama.
hellslittlestangel
I liked Bernie from the beginning, but now I’m starting to get comfortable with hating that rotten, obnoxious old fucker. I guess he grew off me.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mustang Bobby: What? You don’t like the “Hands across the water…” chorus? Lennon had some words to say about “Another Day”.*
*All you did was Yesterday and now you’re just Another Day.(How Do You Sleep”).
Craigo
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, but whoever should go first should be a reliably liberal, blue state, like Washington (but definitely not Massachusetts, because reasons). Or a midwestern battleground state, like Michigan (but not Ohio, why would you even think that?). Or a state with a fast-growing Hispanic population (Huh? What’s this “Florida” that you speak of?) Or a state with a highly diverse electorate overall – Hawaii fits the bill! (Virginia you say? Uhh…look over there! /runs).
Until we create a state that is exactly 64% white, 12% black, and 16% Latino with a perfect partisan split, put it smack dab in the center of the country, and let it go first, sore losers are always going to shit all over the people who don’t vote for them.
Craigo
@Baud: It has America right in the name!
@OzarkHillbilly: As did Nevada. It’s almost as if this “frontloading” argument is disingenuous bullshit.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hellslittlestangel: I ended up turning off the “Nightly Show” after his first segment, nails on a chalk board.
JackOfArcades
Nothing distorts reality like having two super white states go first. Bernie’s campaign could have ended on 2/1
Weaselone
I’m going to reiterate what BillinGlendaleCA said above. The two states that went first were NH and IA, both of which had demographics that were favorable to Bernie. His competitive showing in IA coupled with a dominant win in NH probably helped him stay in the race. If instead NY and CA had gone first he probably would have been smoked by 20-30 points in each and Hillary would have all but secured the nomination.
p.a.
As someone who has done my share of ‘Prog-splaining’ (not here: I know what would happen to me if I pulled that here ?) I can now see the/my problem. The BernieBus is in the ditch, headed for a rollover.
rikyrah
Good Morning ?, Everyone ?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Have you noticed Sanders no longer goes to black churches or community centers.
Last night he had a rally for the poor and downtrodden in Greenwich Village which is 2.2% black and has a median household income of $118,000.
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
That actually seems low for NYC.
Baud
@rikyrah: Hey, you. ☺
Baud
As president, I will lead the effort to standardize the appearance of emojis across platforms.
hellslittlestangel
@BillinGlendaleCA: At this point, I don’t think I could stomach Larry David doing Sanders, let alone the real thing.
Although if he ever chokes up that fucking perpetual blob of phlegm in his throat, I guess I’d watch that.
magurakurin
@Weaselone:
Exactly. Nate Silver referred to two of the best states demographically for Sanders going first as “the political equivalent of drawing on an inside straight.” The calendar favored him early and he lost 3 out of 4.
I wonder if this “corporate Democratic whore” dust up is going to have any effect on the vote in NYC? Bernie better hope against hope that Pope Francis takes pity on him and gives him a handshake photo op at the coffee break of this “life defining” conference on the role of Catholic Doctrine in a post Soviet World. It’s all he’s got left.
hoping for a 55-45 win for Clinton in NY.
Kay
@Baud:
Well, no one’s perfect but joining Kevin Johnson’s Mayors for Educational Excellence might turn out to be a mistake on his part. Johnson is becoming toxic because of repeated sexual abuse allegations against him. Johnson is also married to Michelle Rhee and both teachers unions endorsed Clinton.
satby
Well, for everyone so convinced Bernie will do the right thing and unite the party behind Clinton (the party he has no loyalty to), I think the evidence is mounting he’s unlikely to do so.
amk
dt whines. bs whines. ergo, both sides do it.
EconWatcher
Looking at things in the most charitable light, Sanders started as a protest candidate, which I’ll bet is all he had in mind. Then he seemed to turn into a Cinderella story, and it all went to his head: Gee, Americans really do want a socialist revolution, just as I’ve been dreaming for the last six decades! Now, reality is reasserting itself, and he’s having trouble accepting it.
But someone who loves him needs to sit down with him and say, “Dude. Ralph Nader. You don’t want to be him, do you?” (I say this as someone who’s very unenthusiastic about Hillary. But I keep that in the family.)
hellslittlestangel
@Baud: New York has, surprisingly, got a lot of poor people in it. Even the West Village, where they’re mostly oldsters in rent-controlled apartments.
Baud
@Kay: Ah, now them I’ve heard of. Definitely a hurdle for Julian.
OzarkHillbilly
@EconWatcher: That would be the look of it.
Kay
@Baud:
Yeah, I think that “power couple” probably come off the ‘ol invite list. There won’t be a lot of standing next to Johnson for photographs.
Baud
@hellslittlestangel: Thanks. I always assumed Greenwich Village was full of wealthy hipsters. I blame HGTV.
NorthLeft12
@Baud: If the world was a logical and fair place, the order that states had their primaries would be random enough that no particular region or group was over represented early so as not to have a larger impact on the selection of the candidate than they would in a general election.
But then if you really cared about having a logical and fair system, you would completely dump the primary system and get rid of the electoral college as well. So there’s that.
Jack the Second
Or you could, you know, have one primary day. Third Tuesday in June, put it on your calendars. National conventions the week after to read the tea leaves of N-way splits, and you have your final candidates in time for July 4th photo ops, and you can start the campaigns in March of the election year instead of March of the year before.
OzarkHillbilly
@NorthLeft12:
And I always wonder, “What would that look like?” with full knowledge that it wouldn’t matter, somewhere between 70-80% would scream about “HOW UNFAIR!!!!” it is, and not without reason.
FlipYrWhig
Bernie Sanders is an arrogant asshole. I want him to go away now. And yet somehow so many of my friends are still gaga over the coot. I don’t get it. I think he’s proven to be a bad candidate and a bad person. Being liberal in some important senses can’t be such a get out of jail free card that you get to be such a douchebag in every other way.
Baud
@FlipYrWhig:
Alan Grayson disagrees!
Baud
Donald Trump and Megan Kelly are making up. Does anyone still doubt that the GOP will rally around their nominee?
JMG
If the two parties were any good at marketing and had the ability to cooperate, they’d set the primary order by lot. Schedule dates, say 10 weeks of Tuesdays for four states each plus DC plus random jurisdictions (Guam, Americans Abroad, etc.), then the two party chairpersons would take turns drawing names by chance to schedule them. Hold it on a weeknight in the November preceding the election year. It’d get better ratings than any debate, and since it’s entirely by chance, it would be perfectly fair in its unfairness.
Kay
So this map is sort of my nightmare- it’s what it would look like if Democrats lost the upper midwest/Great Lakes. Admittedly it’s a reach but that is a route for the GOP, if not in this year then in another. I don’t see where Democrats make up some of these states if they start to slip away. I feel like you see how vulnerable Democrats are when you look at Kasich v Clinton. It doesn’t matter this cycle but Republicans would have to be idiots not to see it.
Loviatar
Why the surprise and disappointment, Bernie Sanders has been a Democratic party member for less than a year (April 30, 2015). What would make you think he has any lasting loyalty to the Democratic party? Or I should say, what would make you think he has any loyalty that last beyond the current election cycle. Remember until this election cycle he was listed as an Independent in the Senate.
bystander
@hellslittlestangel: Agreed about being sick of Sanders. Mostly sick of hearing about how much money he is raking in and sharing none of it down ballot. I’d even point out what a hypocrite Sanders sounds like when he whines about speeches Clinton gave to thousands of people while keeping his tax returns secret.
Disagree about the Village. It’s now a vast sea of entitlement and high end mall shopping.
ETA: Changed the pronouns to make it clear I was yelling at Sanders, not HLA.
Baud
@Kay: Yep. Demographic changes don’t really help us if white voters in those areas adjust by switching to GOP. It’s why we currently have trouble in the South and Mountain West.
Baud
@bystander: The news this morning was saying that Clinton isn’t even mentioning Sanders in her campaign stops. I assume she’s confident in her strategy and the polling and is simply going to grind this out to the end.
JMG
@Kay: I’m sure many in the party hierarchy see it, but the primary voters don’t. Except for his home state, I don’t think Kasich has topped 30 percent in any primary or caucus, and usually he’s much lower than that. What has escaped many people, including posters here and Sen. Sanders, is that the so-called SEC primary was established by Republicans to maintain the dominant influence of that region in the party. Democrats went along because it is more reasonable, easy and cheap to have both primaries on the same day. In other words, it’s purpose was to squeeze “moderates” out of the picture.
aimai
@Zinsky: How is Bernie Sanders the fault of the Democrats? They really couldnl’t keep him out of the party if he wanted to run. And his voters are fucking this all up nicely on their own. The Democrats have a real, Democratic Party, candidate and Bernie’s voters arefucking it up for the rest of us.
Kay
@Baud:
It worries me because I considered Clinton strong in those states going in- one of the better Dems for OH, MI, PA. WTF? Why is Kasich polling better than Democrats? Obama won them easily in 08 and again in 12 so it isn’t race. I feel like it’s slippage- gradually losing strength.
Baud
@Kay: Could be geographic bias. Both Obama and Kasich are local politicians. Could be that area has especially internalized the Hillary hate. Don’t really know.
Davis X Machina
Let’s not underestimate the importance of having a Vanguard Party who can direct the class struggle when the workers fail to display correct class consciousness.
@Mustang Bobby: Starlin
debbie
Anne:
Hope you see this. Just watched the Swinton/Bowie video you posted last night. Brilliant! They had to be separated at birth!
aimai
@Kay: “Republicans would be idiots not to see it?” Ok, I think I see your problem here.
father pussbucket
@EconWatcher: Well put. Cosigned. (Or cotangented. Whatever.)
Kay
@JMG:
That’s interesting about the SEC.
My problem with Democratic candidates talking about primary process is I don’t think 95% of voters care, so I wish they would have this discussion sometime other than when they should be appealing to the huge mass of voters who consider this stuff boring. Donald Trump talks about himself too much. WAY too much. Clinton was right- he doesn’t wear well. I don’t think Bernie Sanders should follow that lead.
aimai
@Kay: Kay, you really need to stop hyperventiliating about a poll about a general election that is months away, that seems to favor the only republican in the race who has received basically no votes and therefore no scrutiny. People polled at this point have almost no idea who is in the race, what they stand for, or who they are as political actors. Most TV and News watchers simply screen out information that is not relevant to them or their primary vote. They won’t tune in and start thinking seriously about who they are going to pick until right before the general election, when they will be bombarded with negative and positive information about the person who is actually running. Kasich won’t be running by then. And in the next cycle neither will another Kasich like unknown white guy in a business suit. It will be another Trump like figure, or a Cruz like figure. Just bought and paid for by the Koch brothers. The voters have a taste for red meat and the Party isn’t going to forget it. They will just hire (or try to hire) a circus geek to give it to them.
debbie
@Kay:
I’m sorry, but I still think you’re worrying too much. Governor Goofus represents the soft, fuzzy past of Reagan, which is why he’s polling like this; however, he will trip himself up with his mouth on the way to the election. It’s just how he is.
Percysowner
@aimai: I agree they couldn’t keep him out of the party this year. I do think that they should establish a rule that anyone running for President as a Democrat (or a Republican for that matter) must have been a registered member of the party for at least one voting cycle previous. I suspect this will get some consideration after the election.
Andy
@FlipYrWhig: –It’s called the world not on your laptop, or echo chamber blogs.
Plus his point has to do with the actual time he has had campaigning, and delivering his message.
Southern states knew Clinton=Good. Misguided IMO.
OzarkHillbilly
This is what GOP governance gets you:
Letting them die: parents refuse medical help for children in the name of Christ
Sometimes, violence seems appropriate. Very appropriate.
Joel
“Why should left wingers follow black voters into corporatist Democrat hell.”
Christ, some people are so juvenile.
Kay
@debbie:
Okay but what about THE TREND? :)
The GOP here were all talking about this in ’12- Romney and Ryan were (supposedly) stronger in the Great Lakes. They saw the governors races where state after state went red, including Wisconsin and Illinois (for God’s sake).
randy khan
@Jack the Second:
There are enormous problems with a single national primary day. To pick two:
1. If the number of at least even marginally viable candidates exceeds 2, then the likelihood is that you end up with nobody having enough delegates to get nominated on the first ballot unless all of the primaries are winner take all (and quite possibly even then).
2 A one-day primary effectively makes the entire primary season about fundraising, since a candidate will need a lot of money all at once to compete effectively. Spreading them out gives an initially less-funded candidate a chance to gain momentum and money.
C.S.Strowbridge
In other words, Bernie Sanders is trying to become as well liked as Ralph Nader is right now. This primary needs to end before he destroys his legacy.
debbie
@Kay:
Trend, schmend. In 2012, they were saying a president with less than 50% favorables had never been and never would be reelected. Look how that turned out.
Jack the Second
@randy khan: Don’t both those arguments also apply to the general election? A rolling general election, stretched over several months, would also allow third party candidates to make a better showing while later states coalesced around the most viable ones, while also allowing less well funded candidates to compete in the general.
Joel
@Kay: Even then, it doesn’t really matter. The Democrats are nominally the party of good government; as president you’re making decisions for all Americans, including those that didn’t vote for you. Tactical victories above all else is the Republican way of doing things.
OzarkHillbilly
Zika virus confirmed as cause of microcephaly birth defect, CDC says
………….
.
.
.
.
.
(parody, about the GOP’s tenuous relationship with science)
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Morning Consult has had what looks to me like a modest pro-Trump bias through the whole campaign. I wonder where they’re getting their data showing Trump winning Maine; I haven’t seen any recent state polling there at all. Clinton leads Trump in most of the recent polling in North Carolina, too, and has him basically tied in Arizona.
Joel
@Baud: Nope. I noticed the same thing too. That, plus the RNC committee member saying that Trump might get delegates to flip to *his* side means that it’s all over except for the crying. The narrative will catch up when Trump wins the next six states (NE corridor).
BillinGlendaleCA
OT: I got an infrared lightbar and I took a pic of the neighbor’s ficus. Freeky.
Weaselone
@Kay:
Is there a trend? That region has elected red governors off and on for decades. Hillary loses to Kasich in these polls, but in many cases Sanders wins head to head with him. It seems more like a case of Hillary’s negatives losing to generic Republican.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I read that as infrared lightsaber. Was really impressed for a second.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: …As for that Kasich vs. Clinton map, I’ve seen other polling that shows Kasich winning, but keep in mind that to most voters, at this point Kasich vs. Clinton is the same thing as “Generic Republican, probably not such a bad guy” vs. Hillary Clinton. They don’t know thing one about Kasich other than that he is a Republican and he’s not Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. Lots of self-described moderates will instinctively give a guy like that a chance. That was Mitt Romney’s strength going into the 2012 campaign; he was the generic Republican who wasn’t all those other clowns. And then the Republicans actually nominated him.
And again, I want to know where they’re getting their numbers for Kasich winning places like Oregon and Minnesota and Maine where there’s been very little state-level general-election polling. I suspect it’s some kind of model leaning heavily on fundamentals and national numbers.
p.a.
@BillinGlendaleCA:who’s that in the shroud on the left?
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Kay:
But they’re not pushing Hillary left. They’re pushing people into an attitude of “fuck you Mumia advocates, and the horse you rode in on”.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: So, now you’re not impressed? I’m hurt, deeply hurt.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I’m impressed. Just not really impressed.
satby
@Kay: Illinois wasn’t following a trend, it was reacting to the corruption of the past governor’s (not Quinn) and the desire for a change, and the only alternative was Rauner. And the buyer’s remorse is huge in IL, if another election was held tomorrow Rauner and the Republicans would be out.
BillinGlendaleCA
@p.a.: They don’t call full spectrum cameras ghost hunting cameras for no reason.
Aimai
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: yup.
medrawt
@Baud: For context: Manhattan has a median household income of $66,000. So while there are definitely wealthier parts than the Village, it is indeed much much richer than the borough as a whole.
(Also useful to keep in mind when a certain sort of person says “But I live in a big city, and a $300k salary doesn’t go as far here – there’s no way I should be considered rich!”)
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Kasich is just a generic pol. a blank slate people can project on to. Even a halo effect from positive media stories.
This always happens.
For example, in April 1984 polls showed Gary Hart beating Reagan.
“Three Harris polls from March 17 through last Monday said the President led Mr. Mondale by 55 percent to 39 percent. With Mr. Hart as his opponent, Mr. Reagan was preferred by 48 percent to 47 percent.”
Now would Hart have beaten Reagan – no. But when you first emerge onto the scene people want to take you out for a test drive.
likewise, in the summer 2003 polls showed Wes Clark beating Bush by 49-40. Could Clark have won – sure, it ended up being a close election, but certainly not by 10 pts; too many people were just too frighten “to change horses in mid stream”.
In 1979 polls showed Kennedy beating Reagan in his home state of California (then a red state) 63-34. Teddy wasn’t a blank slate but he certainly benefited from good press. That said could he have won California by 30 pts – not during the late 70s.
Kasich is just another pol benefiting from lack of scrutiny and being new to the national stage.
gene108
@Kay:
Kasich is portrayed as the reasonable Republican, who will be responsible and careful, with the economy, while not being some religious nut, who wants to close down Planned Parenthood and outlaw contraception.
He has not gotten much scrutiny on the national level, yet.
On the flip side, Midwesterners are generally seen as polite and moderate; they are not as abrasive as Northeasterners or as “far out” as folks on the West coast or considered a bunch of Bible thumpin’ in-bred rednecks or gun-totin’ Cowboys that exist in the South and Mountain West / Southwest, respectively.
Maybe just being from the plain old Midwest gives him a few extra points nationally, which would be enough to win the Presidency.
Obama only won the popular vote by 5-6%, in both 2008 and 2012. Flip 3% of the to Republican and you have an election close enough to steal.
Matt McIrvin
@C.S.Strowbridge: I’ve seen no signs that Sanders’s favorability numbers are dropping, though it might have hit a ceiling. I think his attacks on Clinton are mostly hurting Clinton; her margins vs. Trump and Cruz are starting to inch down a little.
Someone mentioned a little while back that if he wants to improve his standing vs. Clinton, going hard negative is actually a rational strategy right now; he’s net favorably regarded so he’s got a little cushion he can fall back on. Of course, if he has almost no chance of winning the nomination, there’s the danger that it also hurts her general-election standing. But he may be trying to cause Clinton’s chances as a general-election candidate to crater so badly that the superdelegates are forced to flip to him, or concede the general election to Trump or Cruz. It’s a risky game.
satby
@Matt McIrvin: It’s a game played by a guy with no fucks to give for the rest of us.
Bernie Sanders is the reason I really hate Bernie Sanders.
Mike J
@Jack the Second:
And none of the states Bernie has won would ever see another candidate again. Low population areas would cease to exist as a campaign target.
p.a.
@BillinGlendaleCA: Let us know when your TLC show is ready; I don’t currently have cable but I’ll pick it up for that!
p.a.
ef: 2 steps ahead of me as always
Baud
It might be a good time to remember that primary turnout is something like a quarter of general election turnout. And most people really aren’t paying attention and won’t until after Labor Day.
MomSense
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
I would like this whole “pushing Clinton left” meme to be explained with some specifics because I am not seeing it at all. If breaking up the big banks (Sanders never says at what size this kicks in btw) is pushing left than I disagree completely. Clinton’s Wall Street Reform proposals are far more comprehensive and actually address the biggest shortcomings of Dodd Frank.
Mike J
@Kay:
Generic republican beats any named Democrat. Generic Democrat will beat any named Republican. Nobody has ever heard of Kasich, Tabula rasa. He is the generic Republican. If he ever won anything, people would start to hate him,
Central Planning
@Baud:
That’s good. Yesterday I tried to give someone the middle finger emoji and they saw it as a thumbs up.
BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman:
@p.a.: I think I’ll stick with landscapes.
Kay
@gene108:
He’s hard to ding, Kasich. He sort of eludes criticism. I also think Democrats are weaker in the Great Lakes states than people believe, so I come at it from that angle.
My bottom line with Sanders is I don’t think he can win a general election in states like mine. He did quite well among Democrats where I live but that’s because our D primary electorate is politics-obsessed liberals and labor. Our county primary electorate does not even reflect our county Dem general electorate. Labor voters turn out here, but they’re essentially single issue- the economy.
I think the “socialist” thing will stick and he’s also “different”- frankly- he has a heavy NYC accent and he’s not Christian. No Democrat here would admit that will matter but it will. There were Democrats here who were attacking Romney for being Mormon which they consider not-Christian. I’m not proud of it but I heard it a lot.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Baud: We can schedule these by time zone.
As president you should make American Samoa first because it’s the only primary with American in its name.
marduk
Democrats used to recognize that frontloading the primary with southern states serves to hobble more liberal candidates and promote the position of southern democrats to the detriment of candidates from the rest of the country. Democrats used to recognize that giving disproportionate influence to states that heavily favor republicans in the general serves to push the field of candidates to the right early on in the primaries. Democrats used to consider this situation problematic.
But it’s primary season so let’s abandon all good sense and attack the guy repeating what a few short months ago was widely agreed upon conventional wisdom among democrats.
Iowa Old Lady
The warmup speakers’ remarks appall me more than Sanders’ do.
Michael Bersin
@randy khan:
“….A one-day primary effectively makes the entire primary season about fundraising…”
Bingo.
FlipYrWhig
@MomSense:
If your impression of Hillary Clinton is that she’s a corporate-loving warmonger, but she runs as a liberal, then the only possible explanation is that (1) she’s faking it, (2) she’s copying Bernie Sanders, the True North of all things liberal in America. This is what the passionate Sandernistas think — and that’s the _good_ ones, not the loons who’ve been saving up miscellaneous resentments about the Democratic Dolchstoss for 25 or 50 years.
bystander
@Baud: Clinton is obviously refusing to look over her shoulder to see Baud! gaining on her.
MomSense
@FlipYrWhig:
It has been pushed by lots of people and not just the passionate Sanders supporters. It is like our version of conventional wisdom but I haven’t seen any evidence for it.
cleek
winners win the game. losers complain about the rules.
OzarkHillbilly
@marduk: Your analysis is a mile wide and an inch deep.
Iowa Old Lady
@Kay:
Judd Gregg comments from the other day, comparing Sanders’ policies to the Soviet’s, are just a tiny taste of what would be said and printed about Sanders 24/7.
OzarkHillbilly
The remains of a monster have been found in Loch Ness
This is NOT parody. They really did.
Eric S.
@Craigo: ILLINOIS! A very representative mix of ethnicities. A mixed economy: high tech, FIRE, industry and farming. We have big urban, suburban, small town and rural. s Study s few years back found us to be the most average of average.
Chyron HR
@marduk:
They must have abandoned common sense. It’s the only possible explanation.
Patricia Kayden
@Zinsky: We haven’t lost the election as yet. This will work out in the end. I’m sure Senator Sanders will accept defeat graciously and move on to ensuring that a Democrat gets the White House.
Kay
@Iowa Old Lady:
I just think it’s borderline delusional to think it isn’t going to come up.
Linnaeus
@Zinsky:
Eh, I wouldn’t worry just yet. What’s happening now is no worse – and I think less worse, actually – than what went on in 2008.
El Caganer
@BillinGlendaleCA: Those folks in NC are going to get awful sick of Ted Nugent, since he’s probably the only person who will perform there,
Poopyman
@rikyrah: Good morning!
Every time I read your morning greeting, I imagine you shuffling into the BJ kitchen in your robe and fuzzy slippers, headed for the coffee pot while the conversation rages on over in the breakfast nook that overlooks Raven’s back garden. And it makes me smile.
Kay
@MomSense:
Well, trade. Clinton has gone Left on trade. It isn’t just NAFTA, which she’s been distancing herself from for years. There’s been a definite recognition that this is a problem in states she needs. Obama was the same, BTW, although to a lesser extent. He got much more free trade when he won the re-elect. I think one of the reasons he’s so cranky about it because he knows he went Right after campaigning further Left. He’s downright touchy about it in a very unObama-ish way.
FlipYrWhig
@marduk:
Of the 10 states won most decisively by Republicans in 2012, 8 have held a Democratic primary. Sanders has won 6 of the 8.
Utah (won by Sanders)
Wyoming (won by Sanders)
Oklahoma (won by Sanders)
Idaho (won by Sanders)
West Virginia
Arkansas (won by Clinton)
Alabama (won by Clinton)
Kentucky
Nebraska (won by Sanders)
Kansas (won by Sanders)
IOW, states that “heavily favor Republicans” have given Sanders a string of victories. In other other words, your claim is absurd.
p.a.
@OzarkHillbilly: well done; you made me click. shame on me.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Well, that’s an “independent” for you; someone who doesn’t get politics is a team sport.
BR
@Kay:
I’m curious why Obama might have gone pro-trade — he usually thinks things through so I’m wondering if you have a sense of his reasons.
Linnaeus
@MomSense:
I think the idea – at least in part – is that Sanders’s presence compels Clinton to emphasize certain issues, and what she’d do about them, more than she would otherwise. That’s disputable, although I do think that there is something noteworthy about Sanders’s campaign.
p.a.
@Kay: Bit too much Dem regret after the fact. How ’bout being right, right at the start.
Tenzil Kem
@OzarkHillbilly: As did Nevada.
MCA1
Why is the mainstream media’s discussion of this always leaving out the part where half of the most important swing states on the current EV map are in the South? Any Democrat who wins Florida or Virginia has won the White House, and Clinton beat the living shit out of Sanders in Florida.
FlipYrWhig
@Linnaeus: I think the only thing noteworthy is the tone, to be honest. Sanders is doing what Dean did in 2004, showing that he’s pissed off at the right people. He doesn’t seem to have gone very far beyond that, but if you’re tired of Democrats who try to be nice and reasonable and find common ground, an unkempt, shouty curmudgeon seems “authentic” and so forth. The problem is that he’s SUCH A SELF-RIGHTEOUS DICKFACE, and I feel like it gets worse by the day.
ruemara
@MomSense: glad someone besides me is questioning this. What fucking legacy has Sanders had besides sitting on progressive channels and embodying angry yelling? How is he pushing anyone left? At.best, he’s revealed that uninformed, conspiracy loving paranoiac rageaholics are not just a conservative phenomenon and that rich liberals who can jet off to Cannes are lousy surrogates. Plus a stunning comfort with outright lying about history.
I’m beyond pissed at the fucker. Last night, they had both the gall to say the ACA does not work and that it’s existence is due to Democratic Whores. Who said that? Paul Song, executive director of the Courage Campaign, husband to Lisa Long – whose sister was retrieved by Bill Clinton himself from N. Korea. Well fuck that guy, no more money for the Courage Campaign.
Kay
@p.a.:
I kind of agree. I don’t know why Democrats didn’t push more mitigation on the trade deals they were all pushing. It was fucking obvious who the Big Losers were. They can’t abandon 5 states they carry for 20 years and expect that not to matter. It makes them look clueless, like they didn’t notice until Sanders and Trump came along, and THAT makes them look like an “elite coastal Party”.
They’re all writing editorials now about how they should have been more pro-active but it’s too late.
It infuriates me to listen to Republicans grab the issue. Democrats could have dominated on it.
Betty Cracker
@MomSense: If you’re waiting for hard evidence, it will be a long wait because politicians don’t generally reveal the political calculations that go into policy development, but of course the participation — and, more importantly, the early success — of an avowed democratic socialist pushed the Clinton campaign to the left. There’s no shame in admitting it, nor does acknowledging that mean Clinton started out as a conservadem.
It means Sanders’ presence changed the conversation and required all the candidates to forcefully address the issues he emphasized. So did BLM, for that matter. On the Republican side, Trump pushed all the GOP candidates to embrace more extreme anti-immigrant policies — does anyone doubt this? It’s a common dynamic within both parties.
Linnaeus
@FlipYrWhig:
The tone is a big part of his appeal, I agree, but I think circumstances are different enough now compared to 2004 – that was before the Great Recession and before it became apparent to most people what a disaster the Iraq war was. I don’t think Sanders would have gotten nearly as far in 2004 as he has gotten so far in 2016.
Chris
@Baud:
Eh, I seriously doubt it, unless the business community is prepared to thoroughly re-imagine their relationship to the lower income parts of society where minorities are disproportionately represented.
It’s not as though minority voters don’t care about income inequality, inadequate safety nets, predatory capitalism, the absence of labor rights, and all the other problems that the business community loves. It’s just that those things aren’t the beginning-and-end of their political worldview like they seem to be for Bernie Sanders & co.
FlipYrWhig
@MCA1: Because I happen to have that page open, here are the states with the closest finishes in 2012:
North Carolina (Clinton)
Florida (Clinton)
Ohio (Clinton)
Virginia (Clinton)
Colorado (Sanders)
Pennsylvania
New Hampshire (Sanders)
Iowa (Clinton)
Nevada (Clinton)
Wisconsin (Sanders)
TriassicSands
The animosity that supporters of both candidates direct at the other candidate and their supporters is childish and counterproductive. Is there anyone commenting on this site that doesn’t realize that it matters much less who wins the Democratic nomination than who wins the election. Support your candidate, but make it clear that you understand that either Clinton or Sanders needs every last Democratic vote possible in November.
rikyrah
Where the tax returns, Bernie?
Kay
@BR:
I followed it closely in the ’08 primary and frankly both Clinton and Obama were dishonest about their positions- but that is COMMON among national Democrats in these states. It’s almost a given.
The part that bothered me was not Obama going Right on trade (which I expected) but Obama misrepresenting the position of opponents to the TPP. He knows better and it struck me as defensive and also really unfair. We are overdue for an honest debate on these policies and despite his best efforts to shut that down, it came up anyway. His approach didn’t even work politically. The lack of any real debate only fueled the fire.
Raven
@Kay: it’s a given for any candidate.
Tripod
@Kay:
No one votes trade.
BR
@Kay:
Interesting. Why do you think he’s entrenched in those positions?
Davebo
@rikyrah: I’m really curious about his reluctance to release the returns because of all the candidates I’d think his would be the most mundane.
japa21
@Kay: I have always felt that people have underestimated the whole “socialist” thing in terms of its impact on Sanders in the general. I have seen people write that his success shows that calling himself a socialist doesn’t hurt him, which is complete BS.
He is running in Dem primaries, which lean left to begin with, where the most committed people vote, not the average Democrat, and there has been no emphasis in Clinton’s campaign on his being a socialist, which is smart on their part.
In the general, he would be attacked unmercifully for being a socialist. It doesn’t matter that he isn’t a true, pure socialist. Hell, many people still are convinced the Nazi’s were socialist because of the full name of their party.
It would be tossed at him time and again and it would stick. Plus not being a Christian will hurt, but not as much as the talk, whether true or not, that he is an atheist.
Again, Clinton and her campaign have been very careful not to cross into that type of negative campaigning, knowing it is a line that should not be crossed. If only the Sanders campaign would realize there are lines that it would also be better not to cross.
Bobby Thomson
@berliner2: it’s not about votes at this point. Just the grift.
Chris
@Joel:
I might be overthinking it, but I really cringed at that one in particular because it seemed to be carrying overtones of the old “carpetbagger” notions from Reconstruction and the succeeding eras – the image of the corrupt Yankee capitalist colluding with The Blacks to exploit the beleaguered white people. (Or, as it was even more bluntly put in a later era, “the Jew is using the black as muscle against you!”)
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@satby:
Were there a two vote Senate D majority, I would donate to a non-loathesome R challenger to Sanders just to eliminate him and his gravelly, obnoxious voice and stupid policy preferences from the Senate.
ruemara
@Baud: I sincerely wonder what you are drinking when you come up with that. See Chris’ response. I’m still Baud 2016! but, yeah, don’t speculate in a way that sounds like some how, minorities aren’t populists. We are. We don’t have the luxury of being populists like the current examples.
p.a.
Anyone see an Amir post lately? I’ve been posting less so maybe I missed, but he’s a regular.
Chris
@japa21:
The same people who presumably believe that North Korea is democratic, a republic, and belongs to its people. Hey, it’s right there in the name.
Sorry. SORRY! You’re completely right, of course. That little line of bullshit just makes me see red every time.
Raven
@p.a.: yes, he’s here.
Gin & Tonic
@p.a.: Pretty sure I saw him yesterday.
Linnaeus
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
You’d just get someone far, far worse.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@BillinGlendaleCA: Exactly. He lost Ohio. The only non all-white State he won was the Michigan surprise. This argument isn’t going to fly when he loses NY and PA, which means it doesn’t really fly at all. Lets have all the smaller lily white States vote first just because isn’t much of an argument.
Tripod
Rumor is Devine has been pushed out (he wants to grift future Democratic campaigns) and Comic Book Guy is driving the strategy bus. Translation: the till is empty, so we’re on to heightening the contradictions!
Barbara
@Kay: Virginia and North Carolina are also among those states, and something like 8 out of 11 of Virginia’s last statewide elections plus presidential have gone to Democrats. North Carolina voted for Obama in 2008. It’s misguided to look at all Southern states through the same lens. And Massachusetts and NH were also on the early side. Sanders had all the momentum he needed regardless of Southern states voting for Clinton.
japa21
@Chris: I know what you mean, and every time I use that as an example of how names are meaningless, it goes right over people’s heads. So you see red, do you, you commie pinko.
p.a.
@Raven: @Gin & Tonic: good. tks.
rikyrah
uh huh
uh huh
Madigan blasts Rauner’s agenda, says governor wants government shutdown
By Monique Garcia , Rick Pearson and Celeste Bott
Chicago Tribune
After sitting down with Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner for the first time since December, Democratic House Speaker Michael Madigan exited out the back door, providing no status update on Tuesday’s hourlong gathering.
The speaker, it turned out, was saving his impressions of how the meeting went for the House floor.
In a rare, 10-minute speech, Madigan ratcheted up his rhetoric against Rauner, delivering a scathing address in which he accused the former private equity investor of trying to make good on an early campaign threat to shut down state government by pursuing a “personal agenda” aimed at harming the middle class.
Speaker for all but two years since 1983, the 13th Ward Democrat told the House he has a long record of working with governors of both parties, even ones with whom he’s had strong disagreements. The situation with Rauner is different, Madigan said.
“Over the last 13 months, compromise has been very difficult to achieve. Never before has the state gone this long without a budget. Every other governor that I have worked with has negotiated with the General Assembly in good faith to help the people of Illinois and to ensure that the people of our state would not needlessly suffer,” Madigan said. “The fact is the current budget crisis is completely avoidable. While this crisis was avoidable, Gov. Rauner has refused to put an end to the crisis.”
Then Madigan, a week shy of his 74th birthday, muscled through a plan to spend nearly $4 billion on higher education and social services, which have languished without state funding amid the recordlong budget stalemate. Rauner has threatened to veto the measure, arguing there isn’t enough money to pay for the spending.
Kay
@BR:
I think he believes the whole orthodoxy on free trade. There hasn’t been a lot of real debate. Also, trade is foreign policy so I think Presidents consider it their area, in a way they may not on something like the health care law where they defer more to Congress.
I was actually willing to accept the knee-jerk free trade position, because it seemed so entrenched, but I’m not willing to accept Democrats pretending there’s no cost. Yes, there is. Denying that doesn’t make it go away. They owed people that, to admit it and then do something about it. Instead they chose to scold people who live in these places and blame it all on “market forces”. It’s just bullshit. These were (partly) POLICY decisions.
BR
@Kay:
Ah, interesting.
MomDoc
@BillinGlendaleCA: I did too. My husband kept trying to change back to the Nightly Show. He’s a Hillary voter but is still willing to listen to Sanders; I need the primary to be over before I can comfortably listen to him again.
I love watching the Nightly Show, but last night, I decided to watch Kobe (who played for a team that I actually hate) finish his career. I have major issues with Kobe but yet he was more pleasant to watch than Bernie. I am sure that is not what they were going for!
rikyrah
I didn’t vote for him…..and want an apology from those who did.
…………………….
Gov. Rauner’s interim grade: An epic F
By Eric Zorn
Bruce Rauner is a failed governor.
Fifteen months after the wealthy Republican private equity investor was sworn in to his first elected office, the state he was elected to lead is in worse shape by nearly every measure than the state he inherited from his Democratic predecessor.
The backlog of unpaid bills is higher, as is the unemployment rate and the largest-in-the-nation unfunded public pension liability. We were one of just six states that showed a net loss in private sector jobs last year. Accordingly, our credit rating has continued to fall, meaning it will cost us even more than anticipated to dig out of a financial hole that’s growing at an estimated rate of $33 million every day.
Illinois still doesn’t have — and at this rate probably never will have — a budget for the fiscal year that began last July, which has put many human service providers and public colleges and universities into a financial crisis.
…………………
By refusing to negotiate on the budget until the Democrats who control the General Assembly enact key provisions of his pro-business, anti-union agenda, he’s not only generated an unending number of heart-tugging stories of disadvantaged and disabled people suffering from a loss of state funding, he’s also created a climate of uncertainty that makes employers and credit-rating agencies wary.
japa21
@Barbara: Of course, if Sanders had won any of the southern states, it would be fine they were when they were. His campaign and its whining is so reminiscent of Clinton’s campaign in 2008.
When this campaign started, it was pretty obvious that Sanders viewed himself as a message candidate, not really a serious candidate for President. In fact, I believe that he really didn’t want to become President. As a result, all the talk from both campaigns was policy oriented with very little personal attacking going on.
Somewhere along the line, something happened and the Sanders campaign devolved into all personal all the time.
I think the going negative the way she did contributed to Clinton’s loss in 2008, and I expect the same to happen to Sanders.
WaterGirl
@satby: Thank god we have elizabeth warren to step in if Bernie won’t do the right thing. I would expect her to have credibility with a lot of the Bernie voters.
Kay
@Barbara:
Oh, I’m basically on your side. I think it’s whiny to complain about the rules after you start. He knew the order of states.
I knew Trump would behave like a spoiled kid when it got tough and he is. I heard him this morning on the radio. It’s not a good approach.
Wilson Heath
Just count each southern delegate as 3/5 of a real delegate. Problem solved in perpetuity with no bloodshed!
rikyrah
Any Chicago peeps wanna tell me why Burns split?
……………
CHICAGO 04/12/2016, 12:00pm
Sophia King, new 4th Ward alderman, is not nobody nobody sent
Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s choice to replace retired Ald. Will Burns (4th), is not a nobody nobody sent. Far from it.
Sophia King is the wife of Alan King, a house music disc jockey/Chicago attorney who is a close friend and basketball-playing buddy of President Barack Obama.
That just might be how she came to the attention of Emanuel, who served as Obama’s first White House chief of staff.
That doesn’t negate the fact that Sophia King has an established track record of her own as founder and president of Harriet’s Daughters, described by the mayor’s office as a “a non-profit group of professional women that works . . . to create and support policies and processes that secure employment and wealth creation opportunities for African-American neighborhoods.”
But it does mean she’s got clout and connections — in the great Chicago tradition.
On Tuesday, Sophia King arrived at City Hall for a Rules Committee meeting that was supposed to be her confirmation hearing.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Did Trump promise she would be his press secretary?
john b
@
satby:
People forget that’s sort of what’s happening in NC as well (with HB2 and other stuff). Dems were in control of the NC legislature for something like 100 years before 2012. This loss was largely due to corruption / laziness of the NC Democratic party. And like IL, if an election were held today, not only would the governor likely lose, the GOP would lose many of their seats in the NC House and Senate. Projecting a national trend on statewide politics usually does a poor job.
dr. bloor
@TriassicSands:
It’s highly unlikely that anyone in these parts doesn’t realize this. It’s been discussed regularly in between lulls in the sniping.
Cacti
Bernie thinks the blackest states in the country should go last in the Dem primary.
Otherwise, it’s unfair to his lily ass.
Feel the white racial resentment.
Chris
@Kay:
The most stunning thing about free trade is the number of Democrats in politics who while otherwise rational when discussing things like health insurance markets or banking deregulation of labor/management conflicts, suddenly turn into the kind of market-determinists that you normally don’t see outside of the Republican Party. “But what could we have done? The Market Has Spoken! We certainly don’t have the power to alter the outcome!”
Chyron HR
@WaterGirl:
And if so, did he actually make the quotation marks with his fingers, or just use a different inflection of his voice?
MomSense
@Betty Cracker:
She released most of her policy proposals before he established himself as any kind of credible candidate. I just don’t think there is any evidence of Sanders pushing her left. My honest opinion is that a successful two term President who is overwhelmingly supported by our party has made it possible for our whole party to run to the left.
Even the whole DLC conservadem thing was just what was electorally possible following Reagan and Bush. We basically had four years of a Democratic executive (Carter) and then 12 years of Republicans. Reagan moved the country so far right and the Democratic Party was such a mess that we had to adjust to win. If anything, the Clintons are politicians. At some point we have to keep in mind that you have to win first to accomplish anything.
@ruemara:
That rally was particularly horrible. I also love the issues that count as pushing left as opposed to those that apparently do not count – like gun violence prevention.
Kay
@Chris:
Which, incidentally, really contradicts the whole point of “trade deals” where we’re supposed to be negotiating this awesome advantage by “leading”. The whole argument makes no sense which is why I think it eventually bubbled over.
Are we “making markets” or bowing to the invisible hand? Democrats can’t have it both ways. They can’t be steering the global trade ship while also waiting for boats to rise, or whatever. It’s the classic “having it both ways”- they’re responsible for all gains but disclaim any losses.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
I think on social issues / social justice issues – gays in the military, gun control and universal healthcare – the Clontons were to the Left of the Democratic center.
On trade deals, unions, etc they were more business friendly.
They were never super liberal, but I think they were more liberal than many on the Left want to acknowledge.
Loviatar
@Chris:
I’ve found the easiest way to understand American politics is to know the race of the potential beneficiaries and/or who is providing the money. In this case its the money.
gene108
@Chris:
A lot of the problems with trade occurred because of Shrub’s Presidency.
The decline in wages, which was reversing in the 1990’s, accelerated under Shrub.
I feel a lot of Democrats spend too much time on self-reflection or in other words, “why didn’t we idiot proof the Presidency for GHWB’s ‘smart’ son” and not on leveling both barrels at the 43rd President and the current crop of Republicans, who would put GWB’s policies on steroids.
Democratic problems on trade are not nearly as bad as what Republicans propose.
Princess
@Kay: I share some of your concerns about the HGreat Lakes states (though I agree with satby that IL’s election of Rauner was not a sign of a shift right here). But I don’t see how Kasich is remotely appealing in the general once he starts running, if he ever gets the nom. I had read about his jewsplaining to the yeshiva boys, but it is so, so much worse when you see the video. Kasich always sounds drunk to me, like he is that creepy guy you don’t want to sit near because he’ll start talking at you and invading your personal space:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/kasich-meets-talmudic-scholars-explains-bible.html
Shell
@El Caganer: Umm. Looks like North Carolina is shaping up to be the new Sun City (80’s South Africa for you whipper snappers)
hamletta
@Princess: That video is a must-see! Kasich is so condescending.
But I’d call it “goysplaining.” ;-)
marduk
@FlipYrWhig: Apparently you don’t understand what my “claim” is, whatsoever.
Princess
@hamletta: Of course!
ruemara
@Betty Cracker: I take real issue in saying he’s pushed her to the left because the more I’ve learned about her, the more she’s lived real activism than he has. It seems to be a comforting fiction. But that’s all I say on it then. I don’t interfere in beliefs.
@MomSense: I have to agree regarding the two term Pres thing. It showed the possibility to the jaded.
I’m more than a little appalled to see at least internet progressives now using NRA talking points to defend Bernie on guns. I’m not that concerned about the general, I’m more concerned with the damage being done to progressivism.
mdblanche
@Wilson Heath:
Well, maybe only solved with no bloodshed for four-score and seven years.
rikyrah
Let me get this straight.
YOU can’t vote, but your azz is gonna show to protest other people who followed the rules?
PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.
…………………………
Independent voters could make polling sites a nightmare
By Marisa Schultz April 13, 2016 | 7:15pm
WASHINGTON — New York election officials are bracing for a mess at the polls because they expect many Bernie Sanders voters will show up who can’t vote.
Only registered Democrats and Republicans are allowed to cast ballots Tuesday in the closed primary, but election officials have been getting an earful from independent voters peeved the deadline to change their party registration was Oct. 9 – long before the presidential election was on their radar.
“I’m going to predict that a lot of Sanders people who come from the ranks of independent voters are not actually registered Democrats and they will cause lines and waits at the poll sites while they attempt to vote affidavit ballots or obtain court orders to vote,” said John Conklin, a spokesman for the state Board of Elections.
Unlike other states, New York allows only registered party members to vote in their respective primaries. So the 5.3 million registered Democrats can vote for Sanders or Hillary Clinton and the 2.6 million Republicans can vote for Donald Trump, John Kasich or Ted Cruz. But nearly 3 million independents and other party members are shut out.
Judges, the NYPD and poll workers are on alert for potential chaos, officials say.
The Other Chuck
Here’s a wild idea: how about random order? Or would the awesome technology stack involving a fucking hat be too much for the state parties to bear?
Betty Cracker
@MomSense: I agree with almost every point you made, including that a successful two-term president has allowed the Democrats to come out of the defensive crouch they’d assumed during the W years and the rationale behind the DLC approach following the Reagan / Poppy Bush years, etc. Moreover, I’ve long suspected HRC is more liberal than Bill at heart, and I think she’ll be a good president, which is why I voted for her in my primary.
But there’s no doubt in my mind that Sanders’ run moved the Clinton campaign — and the entire Democratic primary conversation — to the left. For example, I don’t think Clinton would have come out against the TPP (which PBO supports) if Sanders hadn’t made such an issue about trade. I don’t think issues like trade, wealth inequality, college tuition, bank regulation, etc., would have gotten nearly as much attention as it did if Sanders hadn’t run.
It’s impossible to prove it, of course, for the reason I mentioned above, i.e., campaigns don’t reveal the political calculations that go into policy formulation. But why shouldn’t the dynamic that governs every primary, Democrat or Republican, apply here? Do you disagree that the BLM protests made criminal justice reform a more central issue than it otherwise would have been? It’s a similar dynamic. Honestly, I think some of y’all just despise Sanders so much that you don’t want to give him credit for anything.
rikyrah
You’re the Side Piece…what have you got to be mad about?
………………….
Scorned mistress gets best revenge on millionaire exec
By Julia Marsh
April 14, 2016 | 2:14am
A spurned ex-mistress has made the worst fears come true for a millionaire insurance exec who tried to silence her with a nondisclosure agreement — claiming publicly that he whined to her about his failure to perform in bed and illegally lent her money from a family foundation, court papers state.
Katherine Nelson, 40, claims that 73-year-old Robert Rosenkranz — head of the $10 billion Delphi Financial Group — refused to take Viagra before a romp in bed in July 2014 and turned out to be impotent.
“Sadly, my young-stud days are over,” she says he admitted in an email, according to court papers.
More seriously, she has accused him of using company funds to give her cash on a monthly basis and of loaning her $60,000 from the Rosenkranz Foundation in 2014.
Cacti
@rikyrah:
Sounds like Bernie bros want to interfere with others’ legal right to vote.
How progressive.
rikyrah
Um….
Um……
The power of the Peen.
………………
Consultant who bedded the enemy ruins months-long corruption probe
By Josh Kosman April 2, 2016 | 1:47am
A former top financial consultant for Caesars Entertainment’s bankrupt operating unit gambled away her career on an affair with an adversary at the parent company.
Melissa Kibler Knoll, a former senior managing director at Mesirow Financial Consulting, was hired by creditors of the bankrupt unit to investigate whether Caesars’ private-equity owners illegally stripped away assets from the operating unit before putting it into Chapter 11.
But a judge ruled that Knoll’s work was “tainted” by the months-long affair she had with a lawyer for Caesars’ parent company — the target of her investigation.
“She was sleeping with the enemy,” Judge A. Benjamin Goldgar said at a hearing last month that only recently came to light.
The judge said because he couldn’t be sure Knoll hadn’t shared information with the object of her affection — Vincent Lazar, co-chair of Jenner & Block’s bankruptcy litigation practice — the investigation was worthless.
rikyrah
April 14, 2016 8:30 AM
Dodd-Frank Continues to Work as Planned
By Nancy LeTourneau
Key portions of the Dodd-Frank bill were devoted to identifying and regulating “Systemically Important Financial Institutions” (SIFI’s), which are sometimes referred to as “too big to fail banks” following the Great Recession. Throughout this post I will refer to them as financial institutions because the list of those identified includes insurance companies (i.e., AIG). The reforms contained in Dodd-Frank imposed three regulations on these companies once they have been identified.
1. Capital requirements – which require these financial institutions to fund themselves with a minimum amount of equity rather than debt. They are designed to ensure that they bail themselves out in the event of problems rather than rely on American taxpayers. Avoiding these requirements is the reason cited for why GE and MetLife recently downsized themselves.
2. Stress tests – every year these financial firms are tested for how they would perform in the event of a global recession. In 2015, 28 of them passed unconditionally, Bank of America passed conditionally and two (Deutsche Bank and Santander) failed. Firms that fail their stress tests are required to either re-submit their capital plans or are restricted in payment of dividends to their shareholders.
Miss Bianca
@BillinGlendaleCA: It’s the ficus that ate Orange County! And outlying suburbs!
Chris
@Betty Cracker:
Also, whether or not “Sanders moved Hillary to the left,” that statement isn’t incompatible with “Hillary Clinton has always been a liberal!”
Roosevelt’s point when he said “I want you to make me do this even though I want to do it” wasn’t that he was a tool of the establishment who needed a hardcore activist left to set him straight, it’s that these kind of activists gave him the political cover he needed to move more confidently on these issues they both cared about. Without that, you get things like Obama’s attempted closing of Gitmo, where he clearly wanted to do the right thing, but without much political demand for it and lots of opposition to it, he ended up letting it go and saving his political capital for things that had a better chance of passing.
Anya
Bernie comes off as an undignified sore loser. He’s not even watching what he’s saying.
Chyron HR
@The Other Chuck:
Sure, they could flip a coin or draw cards to decide the primary order. There’s no way the loser could possibly complain that randomly determined results are part of a conspiracy against them.
Kay
@Princess:
He had some kind of religious conversion when he got married and he is now part of a Protestant church that wingnuts distrust. I have no idea why. There’s some long explanation for why his church is no good.
I agree that he’s horrible, but why is he polling ahead of the Democrat? That to me indicates weakness. Pennsylvania? Clinton should own that state.
Cacti
@Anya:
In this case, I’ll give Bernie a bit of credit.
He’s disavowed his surrogate’s remarks and called them “insensitive and inappropriate”.
Anya
@Baud: I hate to say it but GOS is really good at that sort of thing. They profile up-and-coming Dems, local races and everything in between. I only check once midday and never look at the wreck list.
cleek
@The Other Chuck:
that brings up the possibility of CA going first – more than 11% of total delegates. that would totally skew the rest of the race.
WarMunchkin
@Betty Cracker: I agree with your last sentence, that distorted hatred of Sanders is causing some reality-free pushback, but I think there’s a difference between shifting a conversation and shifting policy proposals. There’s no doubt in my mind that the conversation has been centered upon better progressive priorities due to the Sanders campaign, but I also think MomSense is probably right that Clinton’s policy proposals haven’t necessarily changed because of said conversation. Of course, we can just figure out whether or not the Clinton campaign revised anything substantive as the campaign went on. I think.
Iowa Old Lady
Open thread entertaining news: Just heard on the radio about some 9th grade girls at a local school who hired a male stripper to attend their end of the year synchronized swim team banquet. The school is unamused.
Miss Bianca
@Anya: Speaking of which…
CO state delegates convention coming up! I’m starting to get calls from candidates! Including – OMG, I’m so excited – one of the Dems running for the 3rd Congressional District – (John Salazar’s, brother to Ken, old seat, currently being warmed by only-slightly-less-vile R than Doug Lamborn, Scott Tipton) Gail Schwartz! I’ve actually met her and interviewed her before – she was our state rep and then our state senator. She’d be *so much better* than Tipton, I’m actually salivating. I’m one of the reps for the Congressional District meeting Friday night, so I get to vote for her!!
TylerF
Between this and his bizare trip to the Vatican, I’m beginning to think he’s trying to tank it in NYC so he can bow out by the end of the month. Trying to loose is really the only explanation for his last week: nydn interview, unqualified, the Vatican conference, and now black votes should be counted last. That is either trying to loose or incredible incompetence.
schrodinger's cat
@Anya: I am not that big a fan of Hillz but Bernie comes across as a leftie version of Trump. Things he has in common with Trump: the finger wagging, the accent, the shouty hectoring and the proposals unencumbered by reality. Bernie’s actual record on immigration issues is pretty bad too, so that’s another similarity.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Kay:
He’s a white male – I believe that’s what still is considered the default presidential preference by lots of whites. Black president side effects.
FlipYrWhig
@marduk: I think you’re trying to say that Clinton won Republican-leaning states, which created a lead and a “narrative.” The problem with that is that Sanders is winning far more Republican-leaning states than Clinton is. If the need to win races in Republican-leaning states pushes things rightwards, how can you explain the repeated and usually lopsided victories of the leftward-inclining candidates in Republican-leaning states?
The Bernie people tend to want to read Clinton’s victories in red states as signs of her inherent conservatism and Sanders’s victories in red states as signs of his impeccable integrity and crossover appeal. That’s bullshit. It’s starting with the conclusion you want to draw and fitting the facts around it.
Paul in KY
@BillinGlendaleCA: Great song. One the best ever done by any ex-Beatle solo.
Chyron HR
@schrodinger’s cat:
Has anyone considered the parallels between Sanders and Ben Carson? Two guys, both well-regarded but clearly in over their heads, being forced through the motions of a Presidential primary by unscrupulous campaign managers that are cutting themselves huge consulting checks backed by their candidate’s dwindling goodwill?
Betty Cracker
@WarMunchkin: Good point, and further to it, primary platforms inform eventual governing policies but there will be revisions to accommodate reality no matter who wins. It’s also worth noting that Sanders and Clinton voted together upwards of 90% of the time when they were both in the senate.
FlipYrWhig
@schrodinger’s cat:
“Finally someone’s saying out loud what we’ve all been thinking.”
schrodinger's cat
@Chyron HR: I had never thought of that! Bernie still doesn’t come across like he belongs in the loony bin like the good Dr. Carson did, with his pyramids and entropy quotes.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@TylerF:
The whole tax return thing is a head scratcher too. For some reason, they both really don’t want whatever’s in there to be known. It either shows them to be massive hypocrites or uncharitable, or a tax dodger, or all three. If he loses big in NY, I think it becomes less of an issue and they’ll keep ignoring it, but It’s total bullshit that Jane can’t find them. But I think they’re both totally full of bullshit anyway and can’t wait until I never have to see either one of them.
StellaB
@Betty Cracker: Once I heard WJC say that he liked to be criticized by Bernie when he was president because he felt it gave him more maneuvering room against the Rs.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: I’ve been saying it since ‘we’ll see’, which is Bernie’s version of “if I’m treated fairly”. And the one man… sorry, as of yesterday, four person Revolution smacks of “only I can solve”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@schrodinger’s cat:
Not loony, but a cranky old waggy fingered one-note ranter. I prefer Ben – at least he was good for teh lulz.
Paul in KY
@aimai: Kasich is good (IMO) at ‘faking’ being a moderate. He’s sorta like Dubya in that regard. Does not have Dubya’s charisma, though.
I think Hillary can beat either very-flawed candidate Trump or Darth Creepo. I’m not sure how she fares against a bland, safe-seeming, not-weird-looking Repub like Kasich. He could also take Ohio, and they HAVE to have Ohio in order to win.
Chris
@schrodinger’s cat:
I mean, other than the fact that Sanders has never called for the torture of anybody let alone anybody’s relatives, has never tarred entire ethnic groups as criminals and rapists or terrorists or suggested that they be singled out based on said ethnicity, and has never incited his supporters to violence against protesters.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Whoops, I actually meant that a certain kind of lefty would praise Bernie’s bluntness with that phrase the way a certain kind of righty would prase Trump’s! But it could be my words about schrodinger’s cat’s description of Bernie as well, I think. LEVELS WITHIN LEVELS WHOA
bemused
@Iowa Old Lady:
Oh wow, where did that happen?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’d agree on trade, specifically TPP, but I think on the rest of those issues Sanders moved into a space opened by Occupy, Warren and others. And bank regulation has been at the forefront since ’07. The party arguing that Dodd-Frank goes too far got (IIRC) 48% of the popular vote and controls the House and Senate.
Germy Shoemangler
@Paul in KY:
If the professional and highly-paid tv talkers actually mentioned some of Kasich’s outlandish policies, rather than pushing him as a “moderate” alternative to trump.cruz…
Iowa Old Lady
@bemused: Des Moines.
MomSense
@Betty Cracker:
See this is the thing. I assumed that I would be more aligned with Sanders on economic issues at the start of this campaign. I said so on this blog. It wasn’t until I looked at what they were proposing that I realized that he was not to the left at all. He provided sloganesque proposals and even then I said that agreed and respected his values but it fell apart for me in the details. I contrasted those with Clinton’s proposals and found her proposals much more comprehensive and signaling a person who could manage complexity. This was before any primary or caucus had been held. Frankensteinbeck has made the point that she came out with her Wall Street Reform package long before his campaign took off. I don’t think it had anything to do with him because it was clearly the result of study and preparation for release.
We say move to the left, move to the right, Overton window all the time but we hardly ever specify what we mean. And there is also a tendency for segments of our coalition party to act as though they speak for the same party. Different segments of the Democratic party place a higher priority on different issues. Deciding which issues constitute moving to the left is not objective. Is breaking up the big banks more to the left than trying to stop mass shootings?
Part of my process for choosing a candidate is looking at their proposals not just for how they understand that particular issue but also to get a sense of how they will understand and respond to all the unanticipated issues and situations in this complex world of ours. I have moved to really disliking his campaign because I think he is doing harm. With any luck there will be one Democratic Party nominee and one Republican nominee and we won’t have a liberal 3rd party candidate. I don’t think accusations of whoring, corruption, bashing the ACA instead of explaining it, etc are very helpful at all in an election following a two-term president where we want to continue with the party in office.
FlipYrWhig
@Chris: I mean, other than the fact that they both are dedicated to making their supporters feel righteous and correct and rebellious with a steady diet of easy answers, and don’t like being challenged to explain how they’ll make the things they want to see happen actually happen.
schrodinger's cat
@Chris: Senator Sanders is a better person than Trump and not as incendiary, I give you that.
Tim C.
@The Other Chuck: I actually prefer some Saturday in May get chosen as national primary day and each state has a uniform standard, probably proportional. The expectation would be that if there’s nobody with a majority, then it’s time for coalition building and horse trading to commence.
I’m never getting that pony mind you, but I think the expectation that nobody will get the nomination without some kind of deal being struck would moderate the cults of personality that have caused enormous problems the last century or so.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Paul in KY: I think Katich’s Achilles Heel is/would be his arrogance. He not only believes in dismantling Social Security and Medicare, he thinks he can sell. Paul Ryan was canny enough to run away from Ayn Rand and his own budget.
Chris
@FlipYrWhig:
You’re right. They’re totally the same. Only a bro would think otherwise. Mea culpa. If Sanders is elected, I hope they draft Bloomberg. That’ll show him.
Germy Shoemangler
@Chris: Chris, you’re another commenter (there are several who come to mind) who I believe would make an excellent front-pager.
Chris
@schrodinger’s cat:
I agree. Doesn’t mean I’ll vote for him in the primary, but yeah.
psychobroad
@FlipYrWhig: Thank you.
Barbara
@Kay: This is where I come out on trade. In addition to taking these things into consideration during trade negotiations with other countries, we need to extract domestic concessions regarding safety nets from those whose usual policy perspective is 100% on free trade and 0% on safety net. If they really want trade and think it’s going to make America that much more prosperous, why are they so afraid to put their money where their mouth is? The price for NAFTA should have been health care reform, and this is the single most obvious area where the Clintons’ lack of DC chops at the time resulted in a huge loss for all of us.
Linnaeus
@FlipYrWhig:
Policy differences matter. There’s an enormous gulf between Sanders and Trump.
schrodinger's cat
@Chris: Senator Sanders is a better person than Trump and not as incendiary, I give you that.
ETA: Is it just me, or do your comments end up in moderation when you try to edit them after they are published.
VFX Lurker
@FlipYrWhig:
I once worked for a boss that saw a co-worker in an unrealistic, shining light. The boss expected too much of this co-worker, and the boss refused to listen to anyone who tried to tell him the truth. Another co-worker advised me that “you can’t talk someone out of something when they’re in love.” We let matters run their destructive course, and I eventually left that toxic work environment.
On Facebook, I don’t try to talk my friends out of their love for Bernie. They’re voting for him for emotional reasons, and no amount of facts or figures will sway them at this time. They embrace every shred of positive news about Bernie, and they reject anything that hints he might lose. They post a lot of links from US Uncut, for example.
The only thing that disturbs me is that some of them are starting to make statements that sound sexist, and they’re giving the questionable statements of Bernie’s surrogates a pass. They did NOT act like this in the years I’ve known them, ever. I don’t know if their love for Bernie is bringing out the worst in them, or if they’re echoing sentiments that they picked up in their Bernie bubble.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Absolutely true, but so is this: @FlipYrWhig:
cleek
@schrodinger’s cat:
for me, it’s the way they both attract the cynical nihilists who seem to think “Tear it all down!” is a profound political statement.
kc
This pearl-clutching is pretty funny on the heels of a blog post in which a BJ fp’er and scores of commenters typed a bunch of variations of “fuck the South.”
I hope Betty Cracker restarts her own blog, because I’m not giving any more clicks to these shitposts.
Germy
@Barbara:
There’s always so much compromise with the republicans and their donors. It would be nice if there was some compromise with neo-liberals. “You want a trade deal? You can have it, but first beef up our social safety net. To protect workers from your trade deal.”
Barbara
@Germy Shoemangler: “Moderate” has been redefined by the media as “not insane.” By that definition, every Democratic candidate is moderate, not liberal. Should work both ways.
Chris
@Germy Shoemangler:
Why, thank you.
@schrodinger’s cat:
So that’s what happened? I wrote a response to your initial post but now it doesn’t seem linked to it anymore, all I have is this post that appears below mine. Weird.
Kay
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Except Obama was never behind Romney in Ohio. Never. And he was comfortably ahead in PA thru the whole 2012 race. Something additional is going on.
PA should be Clinton country and she’s from Illinois. I heard her speech at the Illinois statehouse. She talked about going to grammar school in the state and was very comfortable.
Iowa Old Lady
@VFX Lurker: Yes, you just have to let the process run its course. Still it’s disheartening to hear people arguing that it’s just fine to call the party whose nomination is being sought a bunch of whores, and that’s leaving aside the issue of whether “whore” is inherently a gendered insult. This is not how you improve the chances of a Democrat winning the WH.
Chris
@Barbara:
I think the media defines “moderate” in terms of insidery-ness and their own comfort with said “moderate”‘s standing in Official Washington. Which is why “establishment Republicans” get moderate cred despite saying things that, like Jeb Bush’s statement that he would totally have invaded Iraq even with 20/20 hindsight, are clearly just as extreme and insane as anything coming out of Trump’s mouth.
gwangung
@MomSense:
I think too many people ignore this. And a lot of this comes from three decades of Clinton bashing by the right wing.
Yes, Clinton in the 90s was corporation friendly. But to win office in that time, you HAD to be more corporate friendly. And to an extent, you still need to hold back a bit….counters to corporate power today have nowhere near the power corporations have, or unions used to have.
Will Hilary be corporate friendly NOW? That’s a different question, and one that too many people are answering with assumptions (and you know what assumptions can do…)
El Tiburon
j
Kay
@Germy:
That’s the other glaring inconsistency. The trade adjustment assistance for the jobs that…won’t be lost. Democrats went further this time- they took this argument to lunatic lengths- “the only way we’ll get trade adjustment assistance is if we pass this trade deal”. The program was now a REASON to pass it. What?
Or, even better. The only way we’ll fix the last deal we lied to you about is with this new one! Come on. In what other area do people get away with this?
Chyron HR
@kc:
Okey-dokey. See you at the same time tomorrow.
WarMunchkin
@Baud:
Seems like that’s just straight up pre-WW2 alignment.
At any rate, I’d like to call a Constitutional Convention. Our electoral system is crappy. Then again:
Oh come on. Nullification, in 2016?
Cacti
@kc:
(Deadpan): No, please, don’t go.
Barbara
@Chris: I think people don’t understand this very well. You only get so much willingness from other politicians to take risks on the president’s behalf. If you spend it on something important you have at least achieved something, and if it is popular, you might even get more of it, but if you spend it on something unpopular or unachievable, you nonetheless have spent it and you will not get more of it to try again.
Bobby Thomson
@TylerF: easier answer. He’s just not that smart.
Barbara
@Cacti: What about his own remarks? If for no other reason, the fact that he has raised this issue about southern states previously, he would have realized by now that the do not gain him any advantage and risk disaffecting groups, and yes, potential supporters. I don’t understand why he keeps going there.
Bobby Thomson
@Chyron HR: yes, and for several weeks.
Barbara
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: State polling regarding the general that takes place in advance of the state’s primary is especially suspect. That’s all I will say.
Calouste
Is it me or is there a correlation between the increased departure from reality (and honesty) of the Sanders campaign and the increased media appearances by Jane Sanders:
Jane Sanders Expresses Concern Over Closed New York Primary: It’s ‘Silly’
Jane Sanders Says Husband’s NY Daily News Interview Was Like ‘An Inquisition’ (VIDEO)
dollared
Amazing. Taking a perfectly good point: you want to have a primary process that gives greater weight to the preferences of voters in blue and purple states – and using it to call Bernie Sanders a racist.
Ann and fellow travelers, this behavior is shameful. And of course, gives strong credence to the Republican assertion that Democrats use “racism” whenever there is a perfectly reasonable alternate explanation that doesn’t suit Democrats.
Cacti
@Calouste:
How many weeks will it take Jane Sanders to learn to use TurboTax?
smintheus
Another stupid attack on Sanders. It never gets old, does it. I’m sure if the primaries were front loaded with a mass of north-eastern or prairie states, any complaints about imbalance would also be met with howls or protest as well, right?
Micheline
@MomSense: That’s how I exactly feel. Sanders’ focus on the personal shows me that he has not moved the Overton Window. I believe his attacks are doing more harm than good, especially, since the fundamentals favor the GOP, hence Kasich beating Clinton in the new poll. People forget that if it weren’t for Trump or Cruz, any Democrat would be in trouble.
Cacti
@dollared:
I mean, it’s not as if black people are the most consistently loyal Dem voting bloc in the whole country.
It only makes sense to have them go last for the sake of the people’s revolution. ;-)
gwangung
@dollared:You’re giving preference and more weight to voters who do not live in the South, and away from those voters—who are black.
That IS racist.
Your statement is shameful.
ruemara
@Chris: You might want to familiarize yourself with Sanders calling targets of the ’94 bill “sociopaths” & his push for fairness in sentencing between crack and powder cocaine – by increasing the sentence for powder cocaine. It ain’t all clean and pure, so that talking point needs to get buried.
gwangung
@smintheus: You do realize that states that actually go more heavily Democratic get more delegates, right?
WarMunchkin
@dollared:
You wrote:
Reality wrote:
Translation: We already do what you say – greater weight to bluer states is represented by increased delegate totals. I agree that calling Sanders a racist is a step too far, but the state that you, dollared, as opposed to Sanders or his supporters – just you, right now, about primary process and weight of red states – is dead wrong.
Bobby Thomson
@Kay: you really don’t know? Clinton has been very strong on gun control this cycle, while Sanders has been pushing lines written by the NRA. That’s enough to flip PA and OH to Generic Republican. It’s also enough to make Sanders look good to conservative westerners who otherwise don’t support anything he says.
Technocrat
@dollared:
it’s not a good point. If Red states are irrelevant because they’ll never flip, then Blue states are equally irrelevant for the same reason. As are Democrats, because they’ll always vote for the Dem. What you’d end up with is a Democratic Primary held only in swing states, and with only Independents allowed to vote.
Elie
@rikyrah:
You have the nicest way of showing up here — It makes me smile… thanks!
Archon
I suspect Bernie is starting to look a these polls, and the crowds, and the grassroots money rolling in and is beginning to genuinely believe he would defeat Trump (or Cruz) in a historical landslide. So to Sanders all that’s standing in the way of his political revolution against all conceivable odds coming to fruition is one compromised, instrumentalist Democrat named Hillary Clinton. That would make me frustrated and angry too, if I were Sanders.
FlipYrWhig
@Calouste:
Why, it was almost as rough and tumble as when Katie Couric asked Sarah Palin about the newspapers she reads!
Chris
@dollared:
It doesn’t seem like that good a point to me, being that whether it’s a primary in Massachusetts or the Deep South, the people voting in it are still Democrats. Why should the vote be “weighted” towards people who just happen to have fewer right wing neighbors? (I agree that it shouldn’t always be the same states who go first, but I don’t see why those that go red in the general should be permanently penalized in the primary).
And while I doubt if Sanders intended it as a racist statement, being that the Deep South’s Democratic vote is overwhelmingly black, it kind of ends up that way whether it means to be or not.
Calouste
@Cacti: I think she implied she has used TurboTax to file previous years, so the question is how long will it take her to find the section where her previous years’ returns are.
Next time she goes on a talk show I’d like to see the host have a computer ready with the TurboTax website on it and say “Well, Jane, you said you and your husband didn’t have time to find your tax returns. So instead of doing an interview, we’ll give you the five minutes you need to find and print your previous tax returns. We have a Turbo Tax expert at hand to help you with any issues. The clock starts now.”
Barbara
@dollared: First 15 states included two in the midwest (Iowa, Minnesota); three in New England (New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Vermont); two in the Southwest (Colorado and Nevada); seven in the South (South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia) and Oklahoma, which is hard to classify regionally. The problem here isn’t that the South swamped the other regions chronologically, it’s that most Southern states are bigger than states like New Hampshire and Oklahoma, where Sanders won big. And I keep beating my head against the wall to make the point, but Virginia looks a lot like the rest of the country demographically, and has reliably voted blue in statewide elections for 10 years. We aren’t the South anymore. Georgia is getting there, and NC was too. No trend should make us more satisfied than seeing the Southern strategy being dismantled from the inside out.
Chris
@ruemara:
Okay, sustained.
FlipYrWhig
@Linnaeus: Policy differences are obviously much more important. Ideology is even MORE important. Nonetheless, it does feel to me like Sanders started out doing an ideological campaign and took an obnoxious swerve. What’s left is a flicker of social justice ideology amid a prairie fire of personality cultism, shopworn slogans, and flattering his supporters that they are a higher sort of being whose time has come. That’s Trumpian. He’s a pain in the ass that nobody likes to work with, not because he’s so awesome that he makes everyone else look bad, but because he’s intolerant and intolerable.
John D
@Calouste: Unless you used online TurboTax to file, your previous years’ returns are not available. If you used the download/CD install version, you’d have to grab the PDF, printed, or turbotax file you stored locally.
Source: I use Turbo Tax and just verified that the years I filed using the latter methods are not available online.
cleek
@dollared:
as a Sadners supporter you probably don’t know this, but there are more races than the Presidential race on those primary ballots. and getting those other primary races decided earlier helps those candidates get on with things.
FlipYrWhig
@Barbara: The whole thing is pretty hollow when the states that comprise Sanders’s winning streak are the most Republican states there are.
D58826
You know until this election cycle I did not realize what complete and total monsters the Clintons and Obama are. There are any number of articles written by sober minded outstanding progressives describing the evils of these three people. I’m not talking some people at their first rodeo but people like Robert Reich who have been there and done that. Hillary has destroyed Libya, Haiti, Honduras and it is only Thursday. The terrible three have destroyed the American middle class with trade policies designed to transfer all of the nation’s wealth up to the .1 %. In the meantime for the past 50 years, hiding in plain sight in the Green Mountain state is the nations savior: Bernie Sanders. The nation is blessed.
Yes that is snark. I’m still totally mystified that his brand of snake oil (and they all sell some form of snake oil) is selling so well and so uncritically. He can’t answer foreign policy questions in any level of detail but he can get an invite to see the pope in the Vatican. Except the pope is out of town. Details details. I’m just not seeing the revolution I guess.
Calouste
@John D: Makes sense.
In that case, the talk show host can just have Jane Sanders fill in this form and she will get the last three years transcripts from the IRS in the mail in 5 to 10 calendar days.
Amaranthine RBG
Another day, another pissy post about Sanders
But remember kids, it’s the Berniebros who are hurting party unity!!!
AliceBlue
@Calouste:
I read the piece about her “concern” over NY’s closed primary and it made me want to repeatedly bang my head against a wall. “When Bernie’s President, he’ll fix all this.” My god. These people are in WAY over their heads.
Rob
You’re distorting Sanders’ valid criticisms. Not surprising since Ms. Laurie has apparently managed to turn Balloon Juice into HRC Pravda.
starscream
Reporting what Sanders’ campaign is saying is now a “pissy post”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I haven’t paid much attention because I generally don’t much are about candidates’ spouses unless they really force them onto the stage as surrogates (ann Romney, that chunky guy from Arkansas), but that is the whiniest thing I’ve heard since the McCain campaign’s argument that “what newspapers do you read?” was an ambush
Elie
@Matt McIrvin:
He really can’t do that. At some point, if Clinton felt that was happening irreparably, she would take off the gloves and we would have more issues like the tax returns, having his wife have all their assets, the failure to support downticket races, come to the fore. He has been sliding along with very little heat against him. Besides these issues, I bet Clinton and her representatives have a lot in their backpocket to bruise up poor Bernie. Problem for him also is if he as seen as screwing up this race ala Nader, he will not be thought of fondly and indeed, may lose his seat in the Senate and be reviled — especially if the Democrats lose this election. Fuggit about it! You have no idea. He would have to stay at home with the blinds drawn.
D58826
@Baud: I assume Bernie was aware of the process and the rules when he jumped into the ring. Complaining now makes it look like he is running for the commissioner of the Calvin Ball league and not POTUS.
Tim C.
Every time the thread goes into Bernie vs. Hillary:
Legolas: [stands indignantly] “Have you heard nothing Lord Elrond has said? The Ring must be destroyed!”
Gimli: [leaps to his feet] “And I suppose you think you’re the one to do it?!”
Boromir: [rises] “And if we fail, what then?! What happens when Sauron takes back what is his?!”
Gimli: “I will be dead before I see the Ring in the hands of an Elf!”
[Commotion starts as arguments erupt amongst the council members.]
Gimli: “Never trust an Elf!”
[Frodo remains seated, watching the Ring, with the figures of the council reflected on its surface.]
Gandalf: “Do you not understand that while we bicker amongst ourselves, Sauron’s power grows?! None can escape it! You’ll all be destroyed!”
[Suddenly, flames flare up, engulfing the surface of the Ring.]
Elie
@Rob:
Many of his criticisms ARE valid — those that deal with substantive issues of the power of the banks and Wall Street are right on. Unfortunately, he chooses personal and untrue attacks on Clinton and also Obama’s record, to support his views. What was damaging was that when given a chance to actually explain what he would do about the centerpiece of his platform, he was virtually inarticulate! His whole shtick seems to be tied to personal attacks rather than an action plan! And that, is just bullshit and as a progressive, you have to be at least a little disappointed in that. But while we are at it, what gives with the damned tax returns? If as he says, he has modest income, though his wife has all their assets, this should be easy, right. Even if he hasn’t been giving much to charity, well, who cares? That would not be a big deal to me — yeah, maybe a little hypocritical, but something easily forgotten. Instead, he has his wife spend more energy on a news program telling people that she can’t print out their tax return on Turbo Tax! For real? He is not able to actually BE the candidate he says he is. That is why the worm has turned so badly on him at least on this site. He is faking it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@starscream:
I’m surprised the Sanders supporters ever emerge from their safe place, what with their skin being so gossamer-like.
Betty Cracker
@Tim C.: Ha! True.
Chyron HR
@Amaranthine RBG:
Another day, another BernieBro throwing a fit because someone dared to blaspheme against his god.
But remember, it’s Clinton’s fault for not conceding the race the way Bernie told her to, when she had an insurmountable delegate lead.
Mike J
@Elie:
The word now is that he wrote a fundraising letter for the woman running for Jim McDermot’s seat (to call it safe Dem is an understatement, he won with 80% of the vote) and Zephyr Teachout.
Kay
@Bobby Thomson:
I’ll think about that but they were convinced Obama was coming for their guns and those states never really veered towards Romney.
Clinton will win the PA primary v Bernie. I’m asking why she isn’t polling stronger against John Kasich, not Bernie. I know Sanders supporters pull some from her, but Kasich also has 2 opponents. I don’t think she should be w/in 2 points of “that guy” in a state like PA.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mike J:
Only because they endorsed him, because he’s that kind of a stand up guy.
Paul in KY
@gene108: Remember, Darth Cheney was really running the show back in the early days & there’s no way to have ‘idiot proofed’ it from his evil clutches.
Elie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It showed them (as a spokesperson for the campaign), as unable to take even mild pressure! That stuff — tough interviews — even hostile interviews — are part and parcel of being in a Presidential campaign and for governing! They have to do this with grace and coolness under fire. They have to come across as substantive and sophisticated — not like teenage whiners! My goodness! I would NEVER let my opponents have the satisfaction of having been too much for me to handle! What rubes!
Uncle Cosmo
@EconWatcher:
IMO it was a bit more constructive than that–he wanted to push the party (& eventual nominee) far enough to port to make room in it for a viable DemSoc left wing.
This x1000. In Bernie’s defense, it’s got to be heady as heck for a small-state lifelong-back-bencher to start drawing enthusiastic crowds in the 1000s. But he needed the equivalent of the slave that the Romans would put in the chariot beside a conquering general riding in his triumph, to remind him that the crowd is fickle. Instead he got Weaver & Devine telling him he could. go. all. the. way. Comic-Book Guy probably because he thinks if he wishes hard enough it’ll happen, Tad in order to keep shoveling small donors’ cash into his money-bin as long as possible.
Bernie has done fook-all to build any sort of organization that will outlive his campaign & carry the DemSoc banner forward. As a lifelong Democrat with a decided democratic-socialist lean, that bothers the living shit out of me. He’s on course to fritter away the enthusiasm & energy of a whole lot of young people when it turns out he can’t do much of anything they want* & they drift away from politics in disgust to “tend their own gardens.”
* And it will turn out that way, whether he loses in Philly, or wins nomination & gets stomped in November after the corporate media turns on him, or actually makes it to the WH & has no clue how to govern in the teeth of a hostile press & GOP-controlled Congress & is either impeached or goes down in flames in 2020. I’m old enough to have seen those movies before–in 1968, 1972, 1976 & 1980–& I dearly do not want to spend the rest of the few years left to me on this plane living through any of the remakes.
Elie
@Mike J:
Not enough. Both were easy gimmes. The problem for him is that he won’t support most of them…. they are not left enough for him probably… He is NOT a Democrat.
Paul in KY
@Kay: Methodist?
Kay
Bravo. Good job.
artem1s
@Kay:
The media is spinning Kasich as the good guy alternative to Drumpf. Once the negative ads come out about his real history and policies, he’s just as vulnerable as the rest of the assholes in the GOP. His only real advantage is he will probably do well in Ohio. But I still think he has to get Husted to pull some pretty egregious voter suppression to win the state.
Paul in KY
@Germy Shoemangler: Nowadyas that would be up to Sec. Clinton to hilite those terrible positions. You certainly can’t count on the Villagers to do it for you.
Bob In Portland
I don’t there’s any question that loading up the front of Democratic primary season with southern states distorts the early results. Southern voters of all colors skew to the right, in case an intrepid BJer wants to make this an argument about race. And, with a tip of the hat to the current folks at the DNC, the Democrats don’t win these states much anyway. I said this a few months ago.
The only argument is among the people here in the Balloon Juice village who still think that they are liberal, although of a finer, richer, more credentialed liberalism than the people in the streets.
Bob In Portland
Jeez, Balloon Juice is positively creaking this morning.
Paul in KY
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Good point. Hopefully that POS will never be a nominee.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: McDermott endorsed Sanders? I’m a bit surprised.
@Kay: are those partisan polls, or do they include everyone? I think at the moment Katich has a lot of appeal to tote-baggers (who in my mind fit the ‘fiscal conservative/social liberal’ model, i.e. cut my taxes and get those tacky god-botherers back in the church basement they crawled out of). I’ve said I think K’s weakness is his sincere belief in his own anti-New Deal, but he has been downplaying his social conservatism this round, from what I’ve seen. I think there’s a lot of nostalgic desire, and not just in the Beltway, for an old school “North Eastern Republican”– Teresa Heinz’ first husband, Bill Scranton (if I have that name right), I’m sure there are some people who even miss poor old Arlen Specter. Didn’t one of your former Senators– DeWine or Voinovich?)–literally weep on the Senate floor at the thought of John Bolton going to the UN?
Mike J
@Bob In Portland: Longer threads are harder on WP. Some friendly front pager should probably throw up a new thread every time the current active thread hits 200ish.
It’s doing much better with big threads than it used to.
Kay
@Paul in KY:
Are you joking? I thought they were mainstream.
I know nothing about this. I wanted to cry in religious classes as a kid. I felt both judged and insanely bored. I was longing to get out of there in an overly dramatic way that made me feel sorry for myself :)
My daughter married the son of a Methodist minister and his parents are just really nice people. They’re Pittsburgh Democrats- “centrists”, practical. They teased her for canvassing for Obama in ’12. Told her PA isn’t OH and it wouldn’t be close.
Bob In Portland
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
A lot of race-baiting here at the home of the more credentialed, less liberal liberals.
Miss Bianca
@Elie: I’m just wondering how, if she can’t manage to find/print out their tax returns, Jane Sanders is going to handle hosting foreign dignitaries or remembering which Girl Scout troop is coming to the Science Fair.
Paul in KY
@Chris: When I see ‘moderate’ applied to a Democrat, I think ‘fake Republican’. When I see ‘moderate’ applied to a Republican, I think ‘Has some familiarity with reality’.
Origuy
@Kay:
Strange, because according to Wikipedia he converted from Catholicism to the Anglican Church of North America, a conservative offshoot of the Episcopalians. IIRC, they split off because of female bishops, gay priests, etc. You’d think that would be right up the wingnut alley.
artem1s
@satby:
totally with you there. if one the GOPers had made any of these statements (breaking up big banks has always sounded like KILL THE FED to me, BTW) he would have been roundly ridiculed as being a glibertarian Ron Paul toady. Sorry, but throwing a great pep rally is not a qualification for higher office.
WarMunchkin
@Bob In Portland: What would a fair calendar look like, to you? Since I guess we’re moving towards the idea that this election is illegitimate.
Elie
@MomSense:
This.
cleek
@Elie:
we know his income. it’s $174K/year. and it’s been roughly that for the 25 years he’s been in Congress.
that’s not Bill Gates money. but it’s not modest, either.
Wiki even has some info on his wife’s income. six figures. $200K retirement bonus when she left her last job.
they aren’t poor.
Brachiator
Wow. 300 plus comments here. I hope no heads explode while waiting for the next primary.
John D
@Bob In Portland:
Here are the first 17 contests (through Super Tuesday):
IA, NH, NV, SC, AL, AR, AS, CO, GA, MA, MN, OK, TN, TX, VA, VT, DA
7/17 are from the South, 8/17 are non-Southern states, and 2 are territory/overseas.
How is that front-loading? This keeps getting bandied about as gospel, but it is flat out wrong.
Immanentize
@MomSense: This. I am a one issue voter — the Supreme Court. Other people have other issues. Other experiences and passions. Although amazingly ‘lefty’ compared to most U.S.-ers, I may look overly ‘moderate’ when choosing my Presidential candidate this year because of my “One Issue That Binds Them All” — who will be best positioned to beat the Republicans IN NOVEMBER (primary) and who do I trust the most to pick good Sup. Ct. replacements (secondary). I can live with looking that way for as we know, YMMV.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Huh. In my mind Ohio is a redder shade of purple than PA
@Paul in KY: the people who decide these things (Andrea Mitchell, Chuck Todd, Tom Brokaw… I don’t even know who’s on CNN, ABC or CBS anymore…) think Lindsey Graham is a moderate. The whole Garland thing is a good example of the absurdity of Beltway standards: LG is a “moderate” because he acknowledges that what McConnell is doing is norm-shattering and contributing to the kind of well-poisoning that brought them/us Trump, so he gets even more ‘moderate’ points for that acknowledgement, even as he follows McConnell in that Trump-building, norm-shattering well-poisoning like a slightly confused baby duck. ETA: and of course, war-mongering. Nothing more moderate than a relentless call for American troops sent to foreign entanglements.
John D
@Bob In Portland:
Oh, FFS. “Gossamer” means THIN, not WHITE, you moron.
Paul in KY
@Kay: That was a joke, Kay. Although to some of the wackier versions of Protestantism, Methodidts are druggie, wimpo, wanna-be-papists.
Would be interesting to know which sect he’s in now.
Edit: I was raised Methodist.
D58826
@WarMunchkin: Not sure how practical but:
1. divide the country into 4-6 regions
2. try to equalize the number of states and populations
3. pick one state from each region and schedule a primary say last week end of January
4. repeat every two-three weeks until all states have voted.
5. and yes the primary would be held on a weekend to give more people a chance to vote (kiss of death for the GOP I know). I’d even set up polling places in local malls. If you can do it for early voting why tie primary day to a polling place.
Miss Bianca
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Great, now I have visions of LG trailing at McConnell’s heels saying, “r u my mother?” Thanks for that!
Genghis
@Amaranthine RBG: It does get old, and changes no minds AFAICT. At least the “fuck you”, “go fuck yourself” or the “Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick you idiot” component has been dialed back, so we’ve got that going for us. Still plenty of the “you probably don’t know this” crap but for those folks the goal appears to be to win the interwebs for the day rather than rational discussion. I’ll give it a shot.
Barring an indictment or blind bad luck or a few more poorly timed statements from Bill, HRC gets the nomination, and I’ll vote for her. My objections remain – she appears (imo) to be to the right of PBO, the width and breadth of her corporate ties are depressing, “the rules don’t apply to me” approach to her state department emails while surrogates try to say Republican SOS did the same (no comparison) is more fodder for those who question her (Iraq, Syria) judgement. And yes, she’s a terrible candidate. Before your heads explode, a terrible candidate has nothing to do with how effective she will be. She has the most potential of any candidate in terms of effective governance. By far. BTW, kudos to HRC for standing with Verizon employees, despite having gotten contributions from the company.
Also FWIW, I have no objection to a woman (or… pick your modifier) becoming President.
OTOH, the appeal of Bernie isn’t his sparkling personality. While his central message of breaking up the big banks and strengthening the middle class is expressed simplistically, it’s broadly appealing. Reaganism is still far too dominant in our political life, but Bernie’s rise has taken the implied “motherfucker” out of the label “liberal” as used on Faux News. Now they cry “socialist”. Bernie’s best comeback, which he should be repeating at every opportunity is, “I am aligned with that radical socialist Dwight Eisenhower”.
The devil is in the details, but dialing capitalism back from the current extremes will require more than competent governance. It will require vision and courage, which Bernie has demonstrated on multiple occasions when the nation was at a crossroads. Can he be effective? He already has been. Will PHRC be willing to rebalance capitalism and social needs? I fear she won’t, however I’m willing to be pleasantly surprised.
Best…H
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
She’s not “political”. She thought all states were swing states. 50/50 :)
I can’t even imagine her canvassing: “hey, are you voting for someone sometime?” Sales would not be her strength.
Paul in KY
@Origuy: Oh… An Anglican! That’s like being an Episcopal, except the King/Queen of England is titular head of the church (thanks Henry VIII). Episcopals are as close to Catholics as a Protestant can get. Only real difference (IMO) is their priests can get married.
No wonder the religious whackjob wingnuts distrust him.
Elie
@Miss Bianca:
Its just fundamental lack of preparation and suitability for the office. Strong campaigns with effective leadership do not do this kind of bush league stuff. They are not up for this and this sort of whining betrays their lack of strength and perspective about the nature of what they are doing. They seem to think that this should be easy! Its supposed to be hard — very hard! You are running to lead the US – the world’s remaining true superpower, through turbulent times — to lead ALL the people — not just your fanbois! Where is the respect for that? These people floor me! They don’t truly know what they are doing!
Bob In Portland
@John D: It always comes down to skin with you guys.
Kay
@Paul in KY:
I seriously said to my new son-in-law’s parents “I know you’re not Presbyterians because you drink. Not a lot! You don’t drink a lot!” It got better from there. They fished me out of the hole I was digging because they’re nice.
Chris
@Paul in KY:
Yes to the first, but as to the second? The last great “moderate Republican” we were sold was the rocket scientist who fell for “unskewed polls.”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Genghis:
citation needed
ETA: no one outside of the northeast ever heard of the fucking guy until last fall. What color is the sky there where you are?
Miss Bianca
@Paul in KY: Don’t forget transubstantiation and the infallability of the Pope. But other than that, yeah…we’re basically indistinguishable from Catholics. Particularly in our taste for real wine in the communion cup, thanks!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
On a gut level, I’m very sympathetic to the idea of breaking up the banks, because “too big to fail means too big to exist” makes a lot of sense to me. but I want to know not only the ‘how?’, but the ‘why?’. Why is the kind of legislative and political effort, political capital, that would take better spent on banks than on the environment, or expanding health care? Smart people who discuss this unemotionally say that increased capital reserves and other restrictions/regulations have taken care of TBTF– I’m skeptical, but it’s an answer. As to their political power, I’m not convinced that breaking up Citibank (or even the dread GOLDMAN SACHS! Boo!) into five or seven pieces makes the financial sector less powerful.
Bob In Portland
@cleek: So what’s your position on the job that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is doing? On the state and congressional levels this is the lowest level of Dem elected officials since pre-depression.
I find talk of down ticket support absurd, since the DNC has plugged in lots of DINOs, even running them against actual Democrats in primaries.
It’s a sorry state you highly credentialed folks have brought the Democratic Party to.
Elie
@cleek:
Well, its modest by DC standards. Still — why the intrigue? Are we sure that their assets are just their home/s (in VT and DC)? Again, why not just release them — why the actual stalling?
Immanentize
@ruemara: No one covered themselves in glory during the ’90’s anti-crime insanity. No one. But I do believe we have finally turned the corner on that aspect of our fear and insanity. For a while at least….
Cacti
@Bob In Portland:
Says the guy who lives in a state that’s less than 2% black.
John D
@Bob In Portland: God, it’s like Darrell is back here with the constant nonsense spewing forth unabated. I always wondered if English wasn’t his first language, too. Run along now, Bob. Your schtick is tiresome.
D58826
@Paul in KY: Along with us Lutherans they are known as off-broadway catholics:-)l
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Immanentize:
Bobby Rush did quite the public mea culpa on his vote yesterday. Sanders, who voted for it then blamed Hillary for Bill’s signing of it, then touted his vote in 2007, now scrubbed from his website. When will this most blessed of all the social justice warriors who ever justice warriored, apologize for voting for it? My guess is after the tax returns are released ie., never. That would mean admitting he’s just another opportunistic politician.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
aren’t you the guy that keeps talking about comparing your “liberal resume” to others here?
sherparick
@Matt McIrvin: Also, Kasich has been getting nothing but love from the MSM. Even Republicans who despise him as a near RHINO will say they will vote for him if he is running against the hated Hilary and “Democrat” party. He then gets the low attention, casual “moderate” voter because he does not get the constant hate that Hillary gets from the the Right and now the Left. It has not really been pointed out that his economic proposals and views on abortion rights are just as insane as Cruz’s, and perhaps a little more insane then Trump’s.
I do think Bernie and his campaign are showing both the effects of long campaign and the frustration of having come much farther and been far more successful then they could have envisioned 1-year ago, they find themselves falling just short of the nomination. it is a little rich for a candidate who has benefited so much from Democratic caucus states and their small, unrepresentative, and mostly white participants to complain about “Southern” states and “super delegates.” Complaining about the process is something losers always do.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
He’s got a (another?) ‘town hall’ with Tweety tonight. I don’t know if Mother Kasich was unavailable, or his campaign thought she might ask tougher questions.
Miss Bianca
@Tim C.: Heh heh heh.
@Uncle Cosmo: This. Pretty much all of it. As a Democrat with decided Socialist leanings, I so much wish BS was a better candidate – actually prepared for this campaign and the Presidency.
Cacti
@Bob In Portland:
“Race-baiting” is a right wing snarl term, usually employed by white guys who want to shut down conversations they find uncomfortable.
Like, say, a leftier-than-thou white flighter from Portland, OR, for example.
Just One More Canuck
@Miss Bianca: a Yakky Doodle reference?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So…. we’re waiting for Elizabeth Warren to don a grey (white?) robe and pick up a staff?
gex
@WarMunchkin: It is hard not to wonder what exactly they want when they demand greater weight for states that already get greater weight.
Immanentize
@sherparick: I think the MSM Kasich love is just a version of Trump hatred. His stands on women are so horrible, he cannot survive non-primary scrutiny. And he doesn’t have the skills to slide by anyway. I still predict:
Kasich the evil opportunist will see the writing on the wall and offer his delegates to Trump for the VP slot. It really is th elast chance for both of them on this level. Trump will win on the first ballot and Kasich and Trump will lose together. In spectacular fashion.
Miss Bianca
@Just One More Canuck: PD Eastman, actually. I’m a Old.
dollared
@Micheline: Focus on the personal? No, that’s just the Clinton attack machine exploiting a sense of grievance rather than dealing with Senator Sanders’s substantive vision for a better America. But hey- it’s working on you….
Immanentize
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I was a public defender and I represented folks on death row in Texas between the first crime bill (’88) and the second (’96). The second one was a horror show no doubt — especially when it came to closing courts for habeas corpus review. Jim Liebman from NYU described it as an Indiana Jones plot — if the natives didn’t get you, the beautiful woman would and if she didn’t finish you off, there was always those Nazis waiting for their chance. Pretty accurate.
But I was in the midst of the fight on that bill — what was originally offered was far worse.
Cacti
@dollared:
The substantive vision that can’t provide policy details at more than a slogan level?
Just One More Canuck
@Miss Bianca: We have that book upstairs in my daughter’s room – my wife’s parents kept it from when she was growing up.
You think remembering Yakky Doodle makes me young?
El Caganer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Teresa Heinz’ first husband was John Heinz, who was indeed a Republican senator (also an H.J. Heinz heir). Bill Scranton was a Republican governor here, But that was in the days when such creatures as moderate Republicans still existed,,
sherparick
@Cacti: And has an interesting history for why that is so.
“When Oregon was granted statehood in 1859, it was the only state in the Union admitted with a constitution that forbade black people from living, working, or owning property there. It was illegal for black people even to move to the state until 1926. Oregon’s founding is part of the forgotten history of racism in the American west….” http://gizmodo.com/oregon-was-founded-as-a-racist-utopia-1539567040
There is a strain in Liberalism, at least the liberalism since the 1960s, that more about celebrating how wonderful “moi” is over all those other people. I am afraid that much of the Bernie campaign as fallen to the temptation, like Bob of Portland, of celebrating and luxuriating in that narcissism of their own so called virtue and less concern with the actual nuts and bolts local and group organizing to actually cause a political revolution.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
that would be “Southern” Democrats being told their votes should count for less by a shouty old white man who says he should be handed the nomination of their party because he got four thousand votes in Wyoming?
If he shouts it, it will come. On a Zephyr wind!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Immanentize:
A lot of things have changed since the 90s, and especially since ’08, but of the two candidates running on the Dem side, only one seems to have been engaged in the changes, made some, learned and knows how to pivot. The other has a shouty one note hammer he’s just going to beat everything to death with, and no plan for later because revolution. When you’re as old as he is, I guess he figures that’s really not going to be his problem.
chopper
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“I put on my robe and wizard hat”
Anya
@Miss Bianca: I hope you see this. If you’re that exited about him, I might be able to throw some donations his way. I mainly check GOS to see who I can support since I am in NYC and really…..
Immanentize
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I totally agree. Wish it hadn’t taken this path, but here we are.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@El Caganer: and just because I’m curious, that was Scranton as in the town, named after his family? Coal money?
There’s another dead PA Republican from the Nixon era, whose name escapes me and who is often held up as a model of what the Beltway thinks Republicans should be, and deep down, really are, if the Democrats would just figure out a way to let them fly their freak flag without acting on it (the Second Tenet of Broderism). They’re trying to fit Kaisch into that model, hell, they tried it with Christie, because he’s from the Northeast, just like old man Keane.
Immanentize
@chopper: Everybody wants to be the wizard….
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
In Bernie world, Florida is less representative of our national demographics than Utah and Idaho.
burnspbesq
@Kay:
That would have been good … but who are these supposed nonprofits, and what color is their momey. HUD can only sell to buyers that, like, exist.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Scranton, yes probably coal money. He wasn’t the only moderate republican. Hugh Scott, Jake Javitts, Rockefeller, Ike, and a bunch others. They were mostly center or center right but they were willing to govern and compromise. As POTUS Ike had made his peace with the New Deal and made no effort to repeal it. That entire wing of the party no longer exists. Kaisch only seems reasonable in comparison to Cruz. He would still be a right wing extremest
Betty Cracker
@Miss Bianca: Same boat — Democrat with democratic socialist leanings who seriously considered voting for Sanders before ultimately voting for Clinton because she’s better prepared. But I think when the dust settles and the partisan rancor fades, Sanders’ candidacy will be seen as progress toward greater democratic socialist influence within the Democratic Party. And that’s a good thing in my book.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
MSNBC anchor tying herself in knots to distance St Bernard from Dr “Whore”. “You really can’t suggest that the Sanders campaign had any connection to his rando who wandered onto the stage at their rally” Now the fourth question wagging a finger at Clinton surrogate and listing everything a Clintonite has said …. and “wouldn’t you say it happens on both sides?”
ETA:
Yeah, I’m just having one of those tip-of-my-tongue moments about another one from PA
El Caganer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yep. Scranton was of the family that the city is named after – very long political lineage,too, going back to (I think) Abraham Lincoln. There were a bunch of Republican governors in the period that would probably fit the Beltway description.
I think the most liberal (or moderate or whatever) Republican governor of any state in the last 50-60 years would be…..Mitt’s dad, George Romney,
MuckJagger
I’m not getting it — but I’ll admit to being a rock sometimes.
I’m not seeing anywhere in that article where he’s saying they should go last, just not frontloaded.
What the heck am I missing?
Elie
@Betty Cracker:
I agree. I think, however, the next decade will be extremely challenging for the US and a very important test for ideologies of all stripes. We have here the convergence of the end of our post WWII hegemony, as other countries catch up — along with the diminished power of the nation state to effect the wellbeing of its people. That power — where does it go? To a decentralized vision of individualism as central? This will make collective action more challenging if we fracture too finely. To a corporatist nightmare where the only organized entities with power and money are the corporations which hold no national or personal allegiances? Governing and being a citizen are going to be a roller coaster.. I am 65 and will only live to see a part of this — but I am expecting a bumpy ride … We need strong leaders who can look at what is happening with clear eyes — and a strong stomach for dissent.
Captain C
@cleek: According to this site, $174K puts one in the top 2% of earners. That same site puts the next percentile (i.e. the top 1%) as starting at $193307. So, if Jane, even in retirement, makes roughly $20K/year, that would put them in the very same 1% that he’s been railing against in his campaign. While there’s a difference between making $194K from your job/pension/retirement account and from your inherited (or earned) investments, (and I definitely wouldn’t begrudge the Sanders their income) I’m pretty sure that the attack ads would write themselves in the general, so I’m guessing this is at least a part of it. While most people probably wouldn’t immediately believe a line like “Bernie Sanders is in the top 1% that he claims to hate, and yet he wants to add $5K* to your tax bill.”, enough might to make a difference.
*or $10K, or $20, or whatever amount they think they can get away with.
Miss Bianca
@Just One More Canuck: : ) Ha! I forgot that Yakky Doodle was around back in Tha Day, cause somehow that one never made it to the Detroit cartoon roster. Or if it did, I just never saw it.
@Betty Cracker: From your mouth to DOC’s* ears.
*that would be Deity of Choice, of course.
D58826
@Uncle Cosmo:
Same here. This is something I’ve been saying for sometime, the country is not as progressive as the Bernie folks want to think. The country might be center-left but not by a whole lot. And there are enough deep red states that control enough Senate votes to bring the entire process to a standstill.
I’ve seen several articles about how the democrats lost the white working class vote. We know how that vote was lost in the south with the passage of the civil rights laws. But a lot of white working class (and probably middle class as well) democrats had the same views as those in the south. They simply were not going to vote for someone as liberal of McGovern or Mondale. In 1980 they even invented a term for it – the Reagan democrat. Like it or not, for the democrats to put together a governing coalition it will require some center-right bluedogs as well as the center left. It is good that a Bernie points out that we still have a long way to go in forming that perfect union but there are not enough progressives like him to elect a filibuster proof Senate or give the speakers gavel back to Nancy. So maybe Hillary won’t break up the big banks (Bernie is blowing political smoke when he says he will do it) but with a democratic congress like the one between 2007-2010, she can get Dodd-Frank strengthened and make sure that SCOTUS has a leftward tilt. It’s the old Chinese saying the journey of 1k miles begins with a single step. Since the system that we have is designed to prevent big steps its the only practical option.
Immanentize
really? 400?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Captain C:
Republicans have successfully created a frenzy over the “death tax” among low income low info voters (ie., most of them). Just recently, I saw a poll that showed half the country thinks unemployment is higher than it was when Obama took office. IOW, Sanders will be turned into a tax and spend Democrat on steroids by the Republicans because he’s a self admitted socialist who wants to raise everyone’s taxes so that big government can take over most of your life, so that he can give free stuff to “those people”. And it will be mostly true, and he’s so thin skinned and glass jawed about criticism, with no ability to explain anything or build bridges to the coalition he’ll need, and he’ll just get shoutier and hoarser and more frail looking. He’ll lose 45 states.
FlipYrWhig
@MuckJagger: I dunno, the part where they’re not frontloaded (see John D above), and maybe also the part where the states that Bernie Sanders wins are actually _more_ disproportionately Republican than the states Clinton wins (see me above)?
Miss Bianca
@Anya: Her, actually. Even cooler! : )
different-church-lady
Sanders campaign: “How dare the Democratic Party try to distort reality: that’s OUR job!”
Gee, Bern, maybe if you had put a little thought into why people in the south didn’t want to vote for you, you’d be wrapping up the nomination right now instead of having debates about what reality is.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I’m listening to John Fuglesang– whom I usually like but his Bernie apologist contortions, oddly combined with an occasional self-congratulatory both-sidesism, is starting to grate on me– and his great idea for the Sanders campaign is that Bernie! should pledge to be a one-term president who will implement his great ideas by executive order. I can’t believe a grown ass man who is paid to talk about politics thinks that this is a) a winning platform b) would be possible. I am absolutely stymied by the fantasies this man inspires in his followers
John D
@MuckJagger:
That was me up at comment 342. Explain that as frontloading, please.
ETA: I see FlipYrWhig mentioned this above.
Captain C
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I really think a lot of Sanders supporters are underestimating the volume and effectiveness of “Bernie will raise your family’s taxes by $X*, and give your money to those people!” attack ads which will be running 24/7 in anything close to a swing state. Plus, even if they exaggerate in those ads (and I expect they would), people can still go to that online calculator and see that, no, I won’t pay $20K extra, but I will pay $5K. For a lot of people, $400/month extra in taxes is not something they can afford, even if Sanders is claiming they’ll get it back by paying less for health care (and that will turn into a morass of “Bernie claims X, Rethug claims Y, you decide).
I can’t see a Sanders campaign, as currently constituted, handling these ads with grace and calm.
*X = a number with no connection to reality, calculated to cause the maximum amount of fear in the target demographic while being just close enough to reality that it’s a) plausible and b) arguing with it will not necessarily help.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Arlen Specter? Who became a Dem, then died?
Cacti
@different-church-lady:
I spent all of my formative years in a border state (Missouri), and a fully southern one (North Carolina). And anyone who lives/has lived in the south can tell you why Bernie went over like a lead balloon there.
No, it wasn’t because he was too liberal. It’s because he comes off as the caricature of a shouty, pushy yankee, who can’t talk to southerners any way but downward. Southerners hate that shit.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The pledge to be a one-term President is one of those things that keeps coming up over and over in fantasies spun by political writers. It’s in the same genre as “co-presidencies”, schemes to intentionally throw the election into the House of Representatives, and the one in which the President intentionally resigns for no reason other than to give the VP a head start as a hand-picked successor. Lawrence Lessig actually tried to be a short-timer one-issue President this time around, but the idea went over like a lead balloon.
Another one is the prophesied return of the brokered convention, though I guess it’s possible, though by no means certain, that we’ll actually see a variant of that this year. But it gets predicted every single time there’s a contested primary race.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Me neither. I can see him appealing to kids, sort of, but my middle aged friends – I just don’t get it. It’s all such transparent bullshit, and the thing is when I point out to them how this can’t happen or how is this going to happen, they take their post down, or the comeback is so fucking lame that I know they know it’s bullshit too, and then they CLAP HARDER. It’s infuriating.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Captain C: I think when it comes to taxes, people overestimate their own wealth/income– maybe the only time they do that. And I am frequently surprised at how many can’t/won’t grasp the idea of marginal tax rates.
Cacti
@Captain C:
In this case, there would actually be some truth to it, because how much people would save or not save is based entirely on projections and hypotheticals.
And Sanders’ numbers are (understandably) based on a best case scenario for everything.
D58826
@Captain C:
The problem is for everyone the tax pain comes up front. Whereas the ‘paying less for medical care’ only affects some and in most cases sometime in the future. The GOP has spent two generations push the tax and spend democrats and to a lesser extent that democrat=socialist. Well Bernie give them a two-fer – he is a genuine tax and spend socialist.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: It’s no accident that the most obnoxious of the Bernie Bros here are the same ones who think Obama was a failure because he didn’t fight…, or didn’t really want…, or didn’t have any balls…. or whatever would have gotten us the sparkle-farting magic ponies. They are incapable of accepting the idea that Congress has a role in legislation, and that not all opposition from ConservaDems comes from ‘corruption’, sometimes it’s just stupid people who think they’re smart, and this seems to apply most of all to fiscal/economic policy (I’m thinking specifically of Claire McCaskill, mostly because she was so smugly and aggressively stupid bragging about how she shrank the stimulus, but she had lots of company.). The Sanders campaign is all about Green Lanternism and the cult of the presidency, and he’s effectively pulling a bait-and-switch on those young voters I’m supposed to be so excited about. That’s why I find it so infuriating.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@D58826: The surest way for a Democrat to lose an election is to promise to raise everyone’s taxes. What comes after the new higher taxes is irrelevant. If Bernie gets the nomination, he and the Democrats are DOA in November. I don’t know why more people don’t see this.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
These idiots all wanted Obama to be the progressive GWB, signing executive orders left and right and saying badass things to the meanies our progressive betters don’t like. The three branches of government lesson was in 4th grade, where you learn how a bill becomes a law – was every Sanders supporter out sick that day? It’s like Sanders’ dismissiveness of everything is an infection that spreads like in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
MuckJagger
@John D:
I’m not suggesting Sanders is correct about frontloading; I agree that the primaries are not frontloaded.
All I’m saying is that in the article, all Sanders said was that the primaries should not be frontloaded. He never said they *should* go last, and some people here are interpreting that is “Sanders hates the blacks.”
Bob In Portland
@different-church-lady: What’s the difference between Ted Cruz being married to Wall Street and Hillary Clinton in for three billion from the the 1%? Dildos?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I wouldn’t say “hate”, I would say he can’t stop speaking dismissively of millions of voters (of all races) because they don’t fit into his blinkered, monomaniacal and self-aggrandizing fantasy of his “revolution”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@MuckJagger:
He was quoted as dismissively saying a couple of days ago, when it was pointed out to him that Clinton has a LOT more votes, that “a lot of those votes are from the south”. What does he mean?
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland:
One’s a sick duck, and I forget how it ends, but your mother’s a whore.
Cacti
@MuckJagger:
If he doesn’t think they should be at the front, then that necessarily means they should be somewhere other than the front.
So that leaves the middle and the back. Which one does Bernie favor for them?
different-church-lady
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Maybe he’s unclear that we allowed the south back into the Union?
Aqualad08
@VFX Lurker: They post a lot of links from US Uncut, for example.
OMG, WTF is up with that? It’s the journalist equivalent of herpes this cycle. I’m a Hillary Whore and even I know never to link to Blue Nation Review…
Chris
@different-church-lady:
God, I love those clips.
Have never been able to read the word “horsemen,” or hear the expression “the pen is mightier,” without thinking of the Sean Connery version of them.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@different-church-lady:
Maybe he meant south of the New Hampshire border?
KS in MA
@EconWatcher: Exactly.
Genghis
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
For one, refusing pac money and changing the way elections are funded.
Voted against invasion of Iraq, very much in the minority on that one. An ineffective vote against a disastrous war, but courage and vision nonetheless.
Unapologetically democratic socialist – agree or not, it’s changed the discussion.
These matter to me, ymmv.
Best…H
Captain C
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Whenever I hear someone complaining about how a high-end marginal tax-increase will totally screw them by making them pay more (on all of their income) than someone of lower income, I want to ask them why they haven’t fired their obviously incompetent accountant.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Genghis:
Barack Obama did everything Bernie’s doing, but first and better, including changing the campaign fundraising model and grass roots organizing, and building a winning coalition that Bernie’s doing everything in his power to drive wedges through. That’s some vision. It takes a certain kind of courage – a lack of it – to snipe at Obama from the sidelines while carpetbagging and using the party essentially Obama built from the ground up to slag and diminish his accomplishments, and dismiss Clinton’s votes from the south. You can miss me with that kind of vision and courage.
D58826
@Genghis:
Easy to do when you represent a small state with a history of retail politics.
Anonne
@Weaselone:
Not really. If New York,California, Florida or any other large states had gone first, the early campaigning would have taken place in those states – a disproportionate amount of time is spent in the run-up to the primaries in Iowa and New Hampshire, that could be spent in states with larger delegate payoffs.
Tim C.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That… would be the most epic thing ever!
Genghis
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
That’s your opinion – not sure PBO achieved 99% individual contributions as Bernie has: https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate.php?id=N00000528
My understanding is that Goldman Sachs were PBO’s largest contributor (as they also were for George Bush).
The wedge that needs to be driven is between the party and the huge corporations. The Verizon strike is telling – the ceo took to LinkedIn with some easily debunked claims and spin, asking his management team to chime in with their support in the comments section. These folks don’t generally lift a finger without a contract but their workers have been showing up without one for 8 months. As I say, glad HRC made it out to support the strikers, despite taking Verizon’s money, no snark intended.
HRC has made more money giving speeches to Wall Street than Mr. Sanders’ entire net worth. That may not bother HRC supporters, but it bothers me. She and her spouse need to be above suspicion, but the river of money that flows out of Wall Street should raise eyebrows. On this blog we dream of “peak wingnut”. I’m more concerned with reaching “peak capitalism” and finally beginning to rebalance society. Can an insider be more effective at this job? Considering HRC is the very likely nominee I certainly hope so.
Also fwiw, I was aware of Bernie several years ago before he decided to run. I read his positions on his website, and aside from his positions on firearms found that I agreed with practically everything he said.
A Buddhist saying – “Outside of your own Karma (experience), you are blind”. I’d appreciate it if you’d limit telling me what you believe I think. It may simply outside of your experience and therefore your understanding. This applies to me as well, ideally all of us.
Best…H
PNW_WarriorWoman
@Bob In Portland: +50.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Genghis:
There’s a lot of hand waving away of some big things in here – like the fact that Sanders has been ineffective in doing anything about these issues in the entire time he’s been in Congress – in fact, Barney Frank says he’s been an obstacle to overcome because he’d rather be a self righteous scold. If you insist that Hillary be above suspicion – like releasing all of their tax returns for instance – let’s see Bernie’s. It seems to be an article of faith that he lives humbly and without much net worth – based on what? Sanders supporters also have a lot of bumper sticker words that do a lot of heavy lifting, like “rivers of money”, “corruption”, “Wall Street” that imputes nefariousness without any facts to back it up as it relates to Hillary. Bernie’s been in Congress way longer than she has, and can’t even meet his own purity test that he’s demanding of others, like voting for the crime bill and voting against the closing of GITMO, and oh yeah, that NRA thing. The rules of political cause and effect just don’t seem to ever apply to Bernie. It’s really ridiculous.. The fact that Bernie grandstands at Verizon like a politician does not impress me at all. It’s cheap election year politicking, that Sanders supporters all eat up with a spoon.
cleek
@Genghis:
University of CA was BO’s top contributor in 2008. Goldman was #2.
in 2012, University of CA was #1. and no financial firms made the top 20.
D58826
@Genghis:
The ‘rivers of money’ flowing from a lot of places should raise eyebrows. If one of your tests for a candidate is they not take any of those rivers of money then your candidate pool is going to be very small. I suspect that Bernie will need a couple of fair size streams, if not rivers, of cash if he is in fact the nominee.
SixPlusOne
@D58826:
And one of those rivers of money will be from the Democratic Party, which he claims to despise with the heat of a thousand suns. That might be my favorite bit of hypocrisy form him. And by favorite, I mean I want to stab my eyes out when I think of it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@cleek:
Did I miss the part where Obama sold out to Big Cal?
Genghis
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Effectiveness can be good or bad. Effectively supporting the invasion of Iraq was not good, imo. Mitch McConnell has certainly been effective, would that he hadn’t been. How effective can the only independent socialist Senator be? Not very, although he was a critical vote when the Senate was in Democratic hands – but as a candidate it’s hard to argue he’s been ineffective. Even HRC would have to say Bernie has been effective in that arena.
Yes, there are any number of public supporters of HRC who will express their support, but very few of them discuss solutions for the issues Bernie’s campaign has brought into focus. Paul Krugman for example had an opportunity to specifically address possible remedies to financial inequality; instead he only criticized him and expressed support for HRC. Matt Taibbi called Krugman’s editorial “spadework” for HRC, hard for me to disagree. Supporters gonna’ support I guess. Btw, the previous objection to Bernie being heralded by HRC’s supporters was that he was unelectable. This week it’s that he would be ineffective. There were also complaints about his tone. Next week it will be something else.
What I support is the idea of rebalancing society. Nowadays, anything can be justified by profit. I really don’t care who is elected provided progress is made on income inequality and restraining the extremists of capitalism.
I’m not sure how much purity any candidate can offer or how valuable it would be but yes, Bernie should absolutely release his tax forms – and HRC should release the transcripts of her Wall Street speeches. Agreed – there is no evidence of malfeasance, but without the transcripts, the amount of cash she got makes the possibility of them being a tongue bath all too believable.
Otoh, maybe the Republican candidate will forget all about this.
Best…H
cleek
@Genghis:
none of those are mutually exclusive. nor do they supersede one another.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@cleek:
That’s for sure – in my opinion, it’s all of the above.
Genghis
@cleek:
Agreed. My point was that issues and the opinions expressed by the various campaigns will shift with the news cycles. The bigger issues are what resonate with me. However…
Is Mr. Sanders unelectable? Not according to this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/20/1488200/-LATEST-POLL-Bernie-Sanders-is-MUCH-more-electable-than-Hillary-Clinton
Is it accurate? I don’t know – it’s a poll and the last few years have shown how wrong they can be.
Was he effective in the Senate? Not as much as HRC was but not so bad according to this: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/24/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-was-roll-call-amendment-king-1995-2/
So, the campaigns are throwing pies at each other, hoping to score a hit. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. It’s a sideshow. IMOYMMV
Best…H
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Genghis:
Including first and foremost, Bernie. I work in the law, and the first thing you always have to do is to define your terms. Bernie hasn’t been able to define anything, or explain anything, and he’s got his supporters all conned into thinking that’s either not his job, or not important, or not necessary. It’s infuriating, because not only hasn’t he thought about it, he’s convinced his delusional followers that he’s done his job, and now go be the revolution!
Hillary has done a much better job of explaining the problems with shadow banking, for instance. As far as getting money out of politics, that’s a fight that needs to happen at SCOTUS, which means getting a Dem elected, which means putting the coalition back together and shoulders to the wheel.
Genghis
BTW, I have said PHRC would be more effective than PBS. My question to the HRC supporters is, effective at doing what?
Regarding primarily:
Income inequality?
Corporate welfare, tax evasion?
Also important to me:
Military?
Healthcare? (HRC was a leader on this, despite being ineffective at the time. Sincere kudos – you can’t win ’em all.)
Best…H
Genghis
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
He’s come out in favor of a higher minimum wage, has suggested breaking up the too big to fail banks, reeling in corporate welfare, higher taxes for the super rich, expansion of public (“free”) education, and so on. It’s not hard to get the gist of his message: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/
His main issue is regarding income inequality. A bit of a one note samba and details are slim, but the concept provides plenty of guidance for those who need to craft policy – mostly lawyers and lawmakers I’d guess.
I think if the campaigns in terms of ideas. Hillary is (not an insult) a bit of a policy wonk, which certainly links to her past and future effectiveness. It’s the big ideas of the Sanders campaign that are appealing to me.
Best…H
Carpetbag
well, at least you Bernie haters get to feel smug.
get your hate on people! you did it! ride the coattails of your husband to carpet bag a Senate seat! Yayaya
marduk
@FlipYrWhig: I’m not saying ANYTHING WHATSOEVER about Bernie. Criticism of frontloading the primaries with southern states is longstanding, and if anything it’s much less damaging to more liberal non-southern candidates in a race like this one with only 2 serious candidates. In primaries with a bigger number of competitive candidates the winnowing happens under circumstances that are maximally disadvantageous to more liberal candidates.
Candidate partisanship is driving people to attack longstanding widely held liberal positions insofar as they also help or hurt a favored/disfavored candidate and it’s really annoying.
Cacti
@Carpetbag:
I know, right?
That ambitious, unqualified whore.
Matt
Let’s just vote by regions already…None of this piecemail shit that is crazy…Our primary calendar should be in chunks of states by region.
Region I – New England – Maine, NH, VT, CT, RI, MA
Region 2 – Mid-Atlantic – NY, NJ, PA, MD, DE
Region 3 – Upper South – VA, WV, NC, TN, KY
Region 4 – South Coast – FL, GA, SC, MS, AL
Region 5 – Deep South – TX, AR, LA, OK, KS
Region 6 – Latin West – NM, AZ, CO, UT, NV
Region 7 – Rust Belt – OH, IN, IL, MI, MO
Region 8 – Farm Belt – IA, WI, MN, NE, SD
Region 9 – Mountain West – WY, MT, ND, ID, AK
Region 10 – West – CA, HI, WA, OR
Two weeks of campaigning between each election and a debate schedule in one of those states for each of the weeks….this piecemeal stuff is driving me insane….like one state on a Saturday here and there is so stupid. I think the order of which states go should be done by random lottery…let it change year by year.
John D
@marduk:
Sigh.
What. fucking. frontloading?
7 of the first 17 are Southern. 8 of the first 17 are non-Southern. 2 of the first 17 are overseas or territories.
There is longstanding criticism of a FICTION.
Elie
Tonight’s debate oughta be interesting…
Will Bernie go after Hillary hammer and tongs or go back to benign visionary purist? My guess is he is gonna be after her. What will she do? Play high road or slip him a shiv or two (my hope). Bernie definitely needs to be questioned about that income tax thing — it just makes no sense why this remains such an issue of evasion for him… I think it damages his credibility not with his true believers, but the fence sitters waiting to go one way or the other. I think his effectiveness/competence IS and issue — not whether he is qualified — he is — but whether he would make a good President. He was not prepared and if I am Hillary I am giving him those same questions over again — “how would you break up the banks?” How would you pay for the free college? etc. Time to stop ducking the tough questions Bernie. Give us real stuff. No more personal attacks and name calling to stand in for real know how on how to get things done. No more easy guilt by association slanders about Hillary when you are not straight up forthcoming yourself. Yeah, we are told his finances are modest. If so, why the evasion? If your net worth is only $750,000 as you claim, why are your assets in Jane’s name? Why bother? Can we teach you how to print out Turbo Tax? Oh, you didn’t know you could print it out in PDF? Seriously. Bush.League. And then having one of your representatives call Hillary a whore! Like wow…
Robert Sneddon
@John D: The first two frontloaded states to vote in nomination battles are famously New Hampshire and Iowa, usually winnowing out any prospective weak candidates by themselves (cf Governor O’Malley this time round). I don’t think they’re particularly Southern states. They are famous for being supermajority white though.
Paul in KY
@Kay: Hee, hee!! Glad they fished you out. Same type of thing has happened to me on multiple occasions!
Paul in KY
@Chris: I just said ‘has some familiarity’. That doesn’t mean they act on reality or politically acknowledge it (these days). There are no more Nelson Rockefellers in today’s GOP.
Paul in KY
@Miss Bianca: Sorry about those misses. Was looking at it from 30,000 feet :-)
Edit: Methodism would have been funner if we had real wine at communion.
Paul in KY
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She has to be sent back to Iluvatar before she can run for President.
Paul in KY
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Frank Rizzo?!
Paul in KY
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: He meant that those votes come from states we will not win in November. Make of it what you will.