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You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Bernie Sanders 2016 / Open Thread: Baby Don’t Fear the Reaper Weaver

Open Thread: Baby Don’t Fear the Reaper Weaver

by Anne Laurie|  April 20, 20163:44 am| 53 Comments

This post is in: Bernie Sanders 2016, Election 2016, Open Threads

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Someone at MSNBC got Bernie's campaign manager to stand in front of a map and do the remaining delegate math.

It… didn't go well for him.

— John Dingell (@JohnDingell) April 20, 2016

Here's Kornacki on MSNBC with Sanders' campaign manager Jeff Weaver admitting the strategy is to flip superdelegates https://t.co/UKcy5Ln0hI

— Bradd Jaffy (@BraddJaffy) April 20, 2016

This is an astonishing assertion by a campaign whose entire premise is that the system is rigged. https://t.co/yLE9ZgiYZ7

— Mo Elleithee (@MoElleithee) April 20, 2016

@AlGiordano You know Bernie isn't having a good night when MSNBC is openly discussing whether he leaves race & his exit strategy.

— New York Votes 4/19 (@HalloweenBlogs) April 20, 2016

Early Pogo character: “Outrageous! If I could write, I’d send the mayor a letter — if only he could read.”…
.

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Reader Interactions

53Comments

  1. 1.

    Damien

    April 20, 2016 at 4:05 am

    I’m so pleased Sanders got smoked like some Brooklyn lox tonight. Jeff Weaver started the talk, but guaranteed within a day it’s going to be the official campaign slogan that New York didn’t count because the demographics weren’t right.

    Seriously, I’ve seen Kos posters calling for a do-over like it’s Rock Paper Scissors; how long does Bernie ha sto lose before it counts?

  2. 2.

    Frankensteinbeck

    April 20, 2016 at 4:09 am

    Holy moley. Weaver thinks it’s not just possible, but likely that Sanders will run the board on the remaining states. His campaign’s internal polling looks better than the outside polling. Where have I heard that before? Oh, wait, from Mitt Romney. The man is deranged, and the strategy he presented delusional. If Sanders is being fed this crap, no wonder his campaign has gone off the rails lately.

    I am gobsmacked. I just… I can’t believe I heard that.

  3. 3.

    Frankensteinbeck

    April 20, 2016 at 4:12 am

    Let me reiterate: Sanders’ campaign manager thinks he has Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Maryland in the bag, and his strategy is based around this. I can’t even.

  4. 4.

    Ripley

    April 20, 2016 at 4:13 am

    WHO? WHO DOESN’T WANT TO WEAR THE RIBBON??

  5. 5.

    Craigo

    April 20, 2016 at 4:19 am

    In case anyone is wondering, Weaver is not putting up a front. He really is this stupid.

  6. 6.

    amk

    April 20, 2016 at 4:42 am

    bs whining about brooklyn, ‘where he was born’. hilarious.

    read the tea leaves, dood. or better yet read the fucking polls.

  7. 7.

    hkedi [Kang T.Q.]

    April 20, 2016 at 4:58 am

    I REALLY hope sanders doesn’t go down the Nader political line at this point, he’s better than that. Keep campaigning, use your delegates to bend the party platform, sure. The sanders campaign is approaching the edge of “both side’s are really the same”. We saw what happened to the country, and Nader, when that got pulled out. I doubt it will be as effective for the republicans this year.

  8. 8.

    different-church-lady

    April 20, 2016 at 5:12 am

    Good. Don’t rub it in Sander’s fans noses, but go ahead and grab Weaver by the scruff and push his head hard into it.

    There’s one thing I can’t stand in politics more than anything else, and it’s when someone elicits the “How dumb do you think I am?” reaction in me.

  9. 9.

    Betty Cracker

    April 20, 2016 at 5:12 am

    @hkedi [Kang T.Q.]: Honestly, that’s why I was hoping Sanders would get smoked in New York: to shake the campaign out of its delusions of grandeur and make a bitter-end finish less likely — and New York delivered, dog bless it!

  10. 10.

    JWR

    April 20, 2016 at 5:19 am

    @hkedi [Kang T.Q.]: That’s what I’ve been wondering. Will Sanders pull a Lieberman, as in 2006, when Slimy Joe ran against Ned Lamont, announcing his re-run as an Independent, or is it too late for that? If not, I seriously doubt that Clinton would go on vacation immediately following such a scenario.

  11. 11.

    Jeffro

    April 20, 2016 at 5:22 am

    Screw it, let them keep on keepin’ on…HRC is already trying her best to pivot towards the general (where, saints be praised, it looks like it really might be The Donald running against her), and every win from here on out in MD, NJ, CA just makes it that much more obvious that Sanders’ campaign is done. There’s no good way to bring him and his folks into the fold until they’re good and ready; let the math (and a hopefully very high-minded HRC campaign) do the work.

  12. 12.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    April 20, 2016 at 5:29 am

    A Southern state like New York only distorts the primary process.

  13. 13.

    Donut

    April 20, 2016 at 5:29 am

    Gosh, listening to Weaver, it’s almost as if Sanders and his top people are simply making this shit up as they go along and never really have had a solid, feasible plan to get them to the nomination and beyond that, dealing with the much harder work of governing hundreds of millions of people.

    That’s obviously just ‘Merika needs right now. Wingin’ it all the way to November and beyond. This kind of approach to politics always works out great in the end.

  14. 14.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    April 20, 2016 at 5:31 am

    I don’t know how you people can celebrate when there was obvious fraud at the polls (photo).

  15. 15.

    Central Planning

    April 20, 2016 at 5:33 am

    NPR just said Bernie was staying in. His path to victory was to win 60% of the remaining delegates.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    April 20, 2016 at 5:47 am

    @Central Planning: What will that must-win percentage be after he loses CT, DE, MD, PA and RI next week?

  17. 17.

    geg6

    April 20, 2016 at 5:54 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    As Weaver said, then it’s on to flipping the super delegate over the summer!

  18. 18.

    Zinsky

    April 20, 2016 at 6:01 am

    Bernie’s flock are true believers, that’s for sure. However, the Democratic Party needs to stop fighting amongst themselves and stop spending funds on frivolous lawsuits when the money should be spent on hammering the fascists (Cruz, Trump et al) who will take away rights from women, gays, blacks, Latinos, Muslims and every other group besides conservative white guys, if they seize power. The barbarians are at the gate. We need to stand united and beat them back!

  19. 19.

    Applejinx

    April 20, 2016 at 6:03 am

    FUCK WEAVER. He wasn’t a name to me a month ago.

    I’ll tell you what happened here. Bernie represents a message and a platform, ably spelled out over and over and OVER with great message discipline.

    I’ve given craploads (for me) of money to support that message.

    THIS asshole decides he can make a lot of money out of persuading MY Senator that it’s about him and that he’s the only one who can carry that message. A year ago that wasn’t even on the radar, even the message wasn’t on the radar!

    Now this freaking leech is prepared to endanger the message just to keep HIS scam going? I don’t know what he’s been telling Bernie, but Bernie’s old and totally committed to his issues and getting the word out. He has to delegate, not just negotiate, and he picked this guy probably on the grounds of enthusiasm and how hard he’d push. He picked wrong.

    Bernie is documenting the progressive side of the Dem tent. He should stay in for THAT reason and then do the ‘Amendment King’ thing and help define the platform which, with overwhelming likelihood, Clinton will implement.

    The heartbreaking, infuriating thing about this is that Clinton will accomodate this stuff. You can call it pandering but Clinton backs up the pander with results. Handled properly, pressured correctly, Clinton can end up with much the same platform. Already is, in many ways. Early on it was Tweedlebern and Tweedlehils up there at the debates. That didn’t have to stop.

    Endangering the platform is unforgivable.

    Fuck Weaver.

  20. 20.

    Splitting Image

    April 20, 2016 at 6:36 am

    What I liked the most about Weaver in this segment was that he didn’t offer a single number. His plan of action is “something + something + lots of delegates in California = 235.”

    If he said that the plan was to pick up 70 or 80 delegates in California and 25 in Pennsylvania and 20 in New Jersey and 15 in Oregon, that would be something you could hang your hat on, although it would require admitting that the polls don’t show Sanders with enough support to do that. Next week will be the end of the line, probably for both parties’ primaries. Sanders might exceed expectations, but more likely Clinton gains 50 or 60 delegates and makes the remainder of the calendar academic. I can’t wait to see what Weaver has to say when that happens.

    I think that the only real question mark left is whether Donald Trump will get enough delegates to win on the first ballot. Sam Wang seemed pretty bullish on this, although some of the other prognosticators are a bit more skeptical.

  21. 21.

    Central Planning

    April 20, 2016 at 6:39 am

    @Betty Cracker: No shit. It’s like he’s got Karl Rove math.

  22. 22.

    Princess

    April 20, 2016 at 6:44 am

    Sanders has the numbers behind him and the good will to be a real force for change within the party, if he stays in. He could be the permanent conscience of the Democratic party on the issues he cares most of it. It is a role that would suit him well. Weaver would destroy all of that potential. It is up to Sanders to make that decision. Right now Sanders probably feels like a loser and does not realize the power he still has, and has the potential to use for good and for change.

  23. 23.

    Central Planning

    April 20, 2016 at 6:46 am

    @Princess:

    Sanders has the numbers behind him

    Do you mean “because he’s not going to get any more” or “he will get enough to win the primary”?

  24. 24.

    Emma

    April 20, 2016 at 6:48 am

    @Princess: But he’s not staying in the party.. He’s already filed for his next Vermont run as an independent.

  25. 25.

    Kay

    April 20, 2016 at 6:58 am

    @Princess:

    It’s a shame to squander all those votes and all that work and that’s what Sanders is allowing his campaign people to do. Weaver comes off as stubbornly stupid- he’s embarrassing.

  26. 26.

    p.a.

    April 20, 2016 at 7:03 am

    goddam he’s bernie one-note, it’s a MOST IMPORTANT note, and at first he provided important impetus to that message and impetus to keep Triangulation Hillary* on the right track. but now it really is a Naderist ego campaign.

    * there have been comments here to the effect of: I think Hil is on the right side of policy X, but some of her advisors…
    This is a bit of a version of the Russian lament, “Oh if the Czar only knew…”

  27. 27.

    gogol's wife

    April 20, 2016 at 7:05 am

    Thanks, New York. We Nutmeggers get to vote next week. Can’t wait.

  28. 28.

    Chyron HR

    April 20, 2016 at 7:07 am

    @p.a.:

    there have been comments here to the effect of: I think Hil is on the right side of policy X, but some of her advisors…
    This is a bit of a version of the Russian lament, “Oh if the Czar only knew…”

    There have been comments here to the effect of: I think Bernie is honest and has integrity, but Weaver and Devine that have led him astray…

    This is totally different because shut up, that’s why.

  29. 29.

    randy khan

    April 20, 2016 at 7:36 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    There’s a certain amount of campaign speak going on there, but still it is kind of gobsmacking, and makes me hope that Clinton smokes Sanders again in all of those states.

  30. 30.

    Manyakitty

    April 20, 2016 at 8:05 am

    Thanks for including a video for what was my gateway song into Lyle Lovett!

  31. 31.

    Anya

    April 20, 2016 at 8:09 am

    @Betty Cracker: We always deliver, except in 08 when we voted for HRC. Imagine where we’ll be if the rest of the country followeded our lead.

  32. 32.

    Anya

    April 20, 2016 at 8:13 am

    @Princess:

    He could be the permanent conscience of the Democratic party on the issues he cares most of it. It

    Not if he can’t go beyond slongans, and if he continues to attack the democratic party and the party’s presumptive nominee.

  33. 33.

    p.a.

    April 20, 2016 at 8:37 am

    @Chyron HR: so my comment was a criticism of Bernie with a footnote swipe at Hillary and I get whacked as a BernieBro because of the footnote.

  34. 34.

    satby

    April 20, 2016 at 8:37 am

    @Princess: He’s not in the Democratic Party, his reelection papers for the Senate are filed as an independent. He’s an opportunist and he’s already burned a few bridges he might have had to influence things. And I very much doubt he’ll behave like a mensch going forward.

  35. 35.

    BC in Illinois

    April 20, 2016 at 8:49 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    If you notice, most of Hillary’s support did come from the Southern part of the state of New York.

  36. 36.

    magurakurin

    April 20, 2016 at 9:02 am

    @Applejinx:

    Fuck Weaver.

    you’re learning, kiddo. It’s been said here for many moons now, but the scales are falling off of your eyes. It’s been a long con for some time now.

  37. 37.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    April 20, 2016 at 9:05 am

    @Applejinx: This is probably the best summary of it. I mean god damn, it was about pushing things to left, not showing the liberals can act like the clowns on the hard right.

  38. 38.

    Barbara

    April 20, 2016 at 9:15 am

    @Anya: Sanders has passion, but others, like Elizabeth Warren and Sherrod Brown have more gravitas. I think what Sanders has done is to show how much appeal his message about income inequality has, and I think that is an important accomplishment. He is a saner, clearly more humane if still somewhat tone deaf corollary to Trump’s appeal to Republicans, in that he is demonstrating to the establishment that one reason why they have been able to ignore the interests of ordinary workers is because no one has been brave enough to expose them — and once exposed, they are vulnerable. I don’t know how to make this message permanent so that it actually changes the game, because, at least for now, money is so deeply embedded in our political culture.

  39. 39.

    Barbara

    April 20, 2016 at 9:20 am

    @BC in Illinois: Yes, I noticed, plus Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse. On the other hand, Sanders’ did not blow the doors off upstate New York and keep it “close enough” in the city and counties like Westchester, Suffolk, Nassau, etc., which clearly should have been his strategy. I am not sure that was his strategy, because, in his heart, and in fact, he is from Brooklyn. He did not seem to do as well with certain demographic groups that have been voting for him in other states. Maybe they were tired of the horse race too and did not follow the lead of mistermix.

  40. 40.

    Raven Onthill

    April 20, 2016 at 10:27 am

    We get it, the Clintonites want Sanders supporters to grovel. Oh, that will work so well, come the convention and the general election.

  41. 41.

    Mnemosyne

    April 20, 2016 at 10:37 am

    @Raven Onthill:

    If “grovel” means “be able to do basic math,” then sure.

    I really, really hope that someone in the Sanders campaign is currently negotiating behind the scenes to get the planks in the party platform and various appointments that Sanders wants in exchange for Sanders’ endorsement of Clinton. If they’re not, they’re even bigger fools than I thought to throw away their opportunity to directly influence the direction the party goes this year.

  42. 42.

    Citizen_X

    April 20, 2016 at 10:40 am

    @satby: By the same measure, Hillary had “burned quite a few bridges” by this point in the 2008 campaign. But guess what? They got rebuilt. Politics ain’t beanbag, and you expect its players to get a little short-tempered in a tough campaign. I maintain the hope that Bernie will take the high road in the end, whatever stupid shit Weaver may do.

  43. 43.

    Citizen_X

    April 20, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @Raven Onthill: Well ya know, Sparklecake, you could actually think about what you can do for your country, and for the rest of humanity, or you can continue thinking it’s all about you. Whatever your little heart desires.

  44. 44.

    Paul in KY

    April 20, 2016 at 11:14 am

    @Raven Onthill: No way, Raven. Like Edward IV, who was twice magnanimous to his traitorous brother George, Duke of Clarence, we ask only that you come into the Democratic fold & work together to defeat whatever evil Republican scum gets their nomination.

    Not saying at all that Bernie is any kind of ‘traitor’, but just like Edward IV was the acknowledged winner in that struggle, we only ask that y’all return to the bosom of the Democratic Party & start working with us (for great achievements for all). I sincerely hope Bernie & you are more intelligent/realistic than George was.

  45. 45.

    gwangung

    April 20, 2016 at 11:23 am

    @Applejinx:

    Bernie is documenting the progressive side of the Dem tent. He should stay in for THAT reason and then do the ‘Amendment King’ thing and help define the platform which, with overwhelming likelihood, Clinton will implement.

    The heartbreaking, infuriating thing about this is that Clinton will accomodate this stuff. You can call it pandering but Clinton backs up the pander with results. Handled properly, pressured correctly, Clinton can end up with much the same platform. Already is, in many ways. Early on it was Tweedlebern and Tweedlehils up there at the debates. That didn’t have to stop.

    Endangering the platform is unforgivable.

    Ya know….Sanders supporters say this. A lot of Clinton supporters say this. I have no problem with incorporating a LOT of Sanders’ platform into the Clinton campaign, and I suspect the majority of Clinton supporters feel the same way.

    Ball’s in the court of Sanders and the rest of his supporters.

  46. 46.

    gwangung

    April 20, 2016 at 11:24 am

    @Raven Onthill: Wonder why so many people think some Sanders supporters are asses.

  47. 47.

    Raven Onthill

    April 20, 2016 at 11:52 am

    Gwangung, oh it’s a lot worse than that. Clinton supporters, and apparently Clinton herself, think we’re cowards and hippies to be punched. Paul, thank you. If the Democratic Party starts delivering on its promises to the left, we’ll think about it.

    See, the Crump threat cuts both ways. The Democratic left cannot win on its own this election. But can the Democratic right win? Maybe this election. But are you so sure? And what about the next election? So be magnanimous in victory and deal, damnit!

  48. 48.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    April 20, 2016 at 11:59 am

    @Raven Onthill: Such a petulant child. This isn’t about *you*. This is about what is best for our country. Way to let your entitlement, self-centeredness, and narcissism just all hang out. It’s not a cute look.

    BTW, I’m not a “Clinton supporter”. Just calling it like it is. And if you’re stupid enough to let strangers on the internet determine your vote, then you’re just a mark for the astroturfing con-men that abound in the internet age. Grow up.

  49. 49.

    John D

    April 20, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    @Raven Onthill: What the everloving fuck are you going on about?

    You are more than welcome in the Democratic Party. You are more than welcome in the Clinton camp. Nobody is demanding groveling or an oath of fealty or anything except “vote for the Democrat in November”. And if that is too onerous of a burden, then ta-ta.

    Vote your conscience. Or not. Live with the consequences of your choice.

    You know. Like you will have to anyway.

  50. 50.

    Paul in KY

    April 20, 2016 at 12:32 pm

    @Raven Onthill: Hope everything works out well for us. So important that Trump or Cruz does not get their greasy fingers on the levers of State.

  51. 51.

    Barbara

    April 20, 2016 at 12:36 pm

    @Raven Onthill: This is a big frustration — that you are looking at this as if it is a purchase you are making and you will not decide what to do until the end product meets your standards. It’s never going to work like that if people who want what you want take no role in shaping what is going to be delivered. It doesn’t have to be everybody, obviously, but certainly, Sanders and the people who have been his organizers and lieutenants, assuming they haven’t burned too many bridges.

  52. 52.

    Raven Onthill

    April 20, 2016 at 8:31 pm

    @Paul in KY: Thank you. Yes.

  53. 53.

    Raven Onthill

    April 20, 2016 at 8:42 pm

    Look, you’re most of you missing the point. I will make a politically-informed vote based on my understanding of the situation. But do you really think that J. Random Sanderssupporter will be doing that? And calling them petulant children, saying they’re welcome to join the party, they’ll take your money and your vote and ignore you, or telling them that a Clinton victory is inevitable and the Republicans are much worse, so shut up and vote for Clinton is not going to persuade.

    I’m some active in the local Democratic Party, and I like the people I know. But I also know that no amount of local activism on my part is going to sway the national party (Schultz, yuck) unless I participate in the kind of organizing that Sanders has done. At this point, I think, the hope rests with Sanders, in a funny way. He was one of the best negotiators in the Senate (don’t take my word for it, pay attention to Rob Reich) and if he can get some good concessions from Clinton, and both candidates can persuade his supporters that the concessions are real and that Clinton will deliver (no hippie-punching!) this could make a huge difference.

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