Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

People are complicated. Love is not.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Let there be snark.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

After roe, women are no longer free.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

You cannot shame the shameless.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

You are here: Home / Politics / IOKIYAR / Open Thread: Who Among Us…

Open Thread: Who Among Us…

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… has not seen an opportunity and seized it? asks Disgraced Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay, per the Chicago Sun-Times:

Federal prosecutors portray former House Speaker Dennis Hastert as a serial child molester who agreed to pay millions to cover up his shameful secrets — but former Republican House Majority Leader Tom DeLay describes him as a man of “strong faith” and “great integrity.”

“We all have our flaws, but Dennis Hastert has very few,” DeLay wrote to Hastert’s sentencing judge. “He is a good man that loves the Lord. He gets his integrity and values from Him. He doesn’t deserve what he is going through.”

DeLay penned one of 41 letters released publicly on Friday in support of Hastert, just days before the Yorkville Republican’s sentencing. Included are letters written by Hastert’s wife, two of his sons, two of his brothers, former Congressman and head of the Central Intelligence Agency Porter Goss, former Illinois Attorney General Ty Fahner, several ex-congressmen and a few retired law enforcement officers, including retired Kendall County Sheriff Richard Randall and members of the U.S. Capitol Police force.

The letter writers call Hastert, now 74, a great friend, great public servant and great American…

Also a grown man who used his job as a wrestling coach to shop for vulnerable adolescents he could use as sex toys, but hey, everybody needs a hobby.

Leo Kocher, the head wrestling coach at the University of Chicago and an associate professor there, wrote that Hastert helped when the U.S. Department of Education created a strong incentive to eliminate intercollegiate athletic opportunities through Title IX.

“He never said no when it came to his being able to help in any way to stem the senseless devastation of non-scholarship sports opportunities,” Kocher wrote, adding Hastert “was driven in this by pure concern for, and loyalty to, the youth — boys and girls — whose development was at stake.”…

PHRASING!

Also, it would be interesting to find out exactly how Hastert came to have a couple spare million to use for hush money, but then, money is the only topic the American media is more squeamish about than sex.

Reader Interactions

175Comments

  2. 2.

    lamh36

    Had to interrupt my tribute playlist just to say, I see John’s bae Rosario Dawson is working her magic as a Bernie surrogate again.

    @ABCPolitics
    [email protected] says @BernieSanders supporters being attacked: “I’m with Monica Lewinsky…Bullying is bad.”
    https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/723997790943121410?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Gonna use my fav Prince meme for this and say “Girl Bye” to Rosario…

    I mean…really R.Daw…no one LIKES bullying…but name checkn M.Lew…girl u think you slick…

    Once again, Girl Bye

  5. 5.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @lamh36:

    Sanders, his wife and two of his surrogates dropping turds within hours of each other today. Is there anyone on that campaign capable of not alienating, dismissing, smearing and whining?

  6. 6.

    gene108

    Let’s imagine how the GOP would respond if Tip O’Neill or Nancy Pelosi had been revealed as a child molester.

    Not much to imagine. 24/7 howls of outrage from the media. Democrats getting hauled up to denounce other Democrats and run away from being a Democrat.

    The fact people aren’t running away from Hastert is truly frightening.

    Prominent Republicans are sticking up for a child molester!!!

    And the media is silent about it.

    Edit: And not even a heterosexual molester at that, but one that duggared teenage boys.

    Edit 2: And every other person, who engages in homosexual acts is denounced as evil, but Hastert’s a godly man. Hypocrites.

  7. 7.

    Amaranthine RBG

    I sent three of those letter writers emails, basically asking what they were thinking.

    I am not holding my breath for replies.

  8. 8.

    redshirt

    @gene108: Yep. Constant 24/7 cable coverage. Multiple Republicans would be on TV saying how sick this shows the Democrat Party to be, on and on and on.

    But this case? Fucking crickets.

    When Shakespeare suggested lawyers should be first against the wall, I’d counter-propose all of cable news instead.

  9. 9.

    scav

    It’s also just yet another case of using Overt Christianity as a get out of legal consequences card, no matter that the action is also immoral under their own rules. So long as you go to Bible Study Group, you don’t actually have to follow through with any of the behaviors.

  12. 12.

    MazeDancer

    @lamh36:

    say “Girl Bye” to Rosario…

    Rosario Dawson is, deservedly, destroying her career. Can’t even imagine watching her – or Susan Sarandon – because would only be able to think about their insane spewing.

  14. 14.

    Germy

    Also, it would be interesting to find out exactly how Hastert came to have a couple spare million to use for hush money

    As the Sunlight Foundation uncovered in 2006, and as longtime House staffer Scott Lilly and I wrote in detail, Hastert manipulated a series of complex land transactions in his home state of Illinois, in concert with wealthy patrons, to take his net worth from a negligible amount to many millions of dollars while he was serving as Speaker of the House—buying land at a low price while his associates purchased adjacent land at a much higher price, then merging the parcels and creating a trust that gave Hastert an inflated share. Hastert then used his clout as speaker to jam through a stalled transportation bill to which he attached an earmark to fund a highway interchange unwanted by the Illinois Department of Transportation and local residents that was a mile from his land. The earmark caused the land to skyrocket in value, and a portion was sold to a developer that resulted in a $3 million-plus payoff to the newly rich Speaker of the House, a 500 percent profit. Hastert retained his share in the remainder of the land—his net worth when he left office was estimated at between $4 and $17 million. While much of the value was in land, he had also netted a huge pile of cash. No ethics actions were taken against Hastert—which says more about the ethics process than it does about the individual—but by any reasonable standard this was dodgy behavior.

    (from the Atlantic)

  15. 15.

    Mike R

    @Amaranthine RBG: They were probably thinking there was a way to monetize the publicity, and that they might soon be in need of letters of reference. Nothing says family values like child molestation, what a world. Has Hastert asked and received forgiveness, cause you know if it is okay with Jesus then the judge should just call it good and move on. The republican party is truly a cult.

  16. 16.

    dmsilev

    “We all have our flaws, but Dennis Hastert has very few,”

    …but those few are real doozies.

  17. 17.

    Howard Beale IV

    Lying to an Special Agent (18 USC 1001) usually gets you some qualify time at Club Fed right off the bat. And we’re not talking chump change on those structuring amounts either. Perhaps the best answer came from the Chicago Tribune Editorial board, who called for Hastert to do honest-to-God prison time:

    Then there’s Individual D, who told prosecutors Hastert performed a sex act on him during a massage after wrestling practice. Defense attorneys say Hastert doesn’t contest that story but has “no current recollection of the episode described by Individual D.”

    Hastert’s attorneys objected to letting Individual D testify at Wednesday’s sentencing hearing, saying he wasn’t legally a victim and should submit a written statement instead. But Durkin disagreed, even postponing the hearing to accommodate Individual D’s schedule.

    “If Individual D wants to come in and talk about being a victim of sexual abuse, he’s entitled to do so because that informs my decision about the history and characteristics of the defendant,” the judge said. “It’s that simple.”

    Durkin also made it clear that Hastert could be penalized for lying to the FBI about why he’d withdrawn all that money. Hastert said he was being extorted by a former student who had falsely accused him of sexual abuse, but agents concluded that it was Hastert who was lying. “That’s not conduct that’s 40 years old,” Durkin told the attorneys. “That’s conduct that’s a year old. Among the aggravating factors in this case, that’s a big one.”

    The truth is that the aggravating factors in the case far outweigh the seriousness of the actual crime. That crime calls for a maximum sentence of five paltry years. Hastert ought to serve every minute of it.

  19. 19.

    El Caganer

    @gene108: And the Democrats’ response to this is……………..? (“Oh, we would never take advantage of our opponents’ support for = fill in the blanks =”)

  20. 20.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Tom Delay was, of course, one of the loudest scolds during the Attack of the Clenis, snarling about how it was the duty of lawmakers to go and look at the secret evidence!

    @MazeDancer: I’m only vaguely aware of who Rosario Dawson is, and as contemptuous of the extreme Bernie-or-Burners as the next guy– I have even been more or less accused of ‘bullying’ for pointing out political realities to those who would rather dwell in the happy smurf kingdom of gumdrops and happy feelings– but this wouldn’t stop me from enjoying her work. likewise Sarandon is a self-indulgent, self-important, self-congratulatory jackass who should know better, having done this before, but she’s both a great actress and engaging presence and i hear her new movie is really good. At least that’s what she and Marc Maron said about it on his podcast.

  25. 25.

    Mike J

    @redshirt:

    Actors for the most part should shut up about politics.

    I don’t think so. I just don’t think you should pay them any more attention than you would a random person off the street. Al Franken is GREAT on policy. He’s a really smart guy, I don’t know who he supports in the presidential race, but either way, I can not imagine him saying something stupid in support of his candidate.

    Some actors know a lot about politics. Some of them know nothing. Same for programmers and typists and butchers and longshoremen.

  26. 26.

    Gin & Tonic

    So after working past midnight last night and another 10 hours today I was beat, and when my wife suggested we go out for dinner I said sure. We headed to a pretty average Italian place near my work – I drove there from work and she came from home and met me. But the place was packed, looked like lots of local police brass, some local pols I recognized, and the hostess said it’s be an hour wait – I thought some police union banquet, something like that. We decided to go up the street to another place, but took my car. Had a nice dinner, I drove my wife back to pick up her car, and there were, if anything, more people, and a state trooper waved me away from the parking lot entrance. I dropped my wife off up the street and headed home. Halfway there, she called me to say we should have waited the hour to eat at the first place, because we would have seen HRC. That was the reason for all the local pols, the cops and the crowd (RI primary is Tuesday.) My wife managed to get a glimpse of Hillz exiting the restaurant into her car.

    But we had a nice dinner, in a quieter restaurant.

  27. 27.

    MattF

    @Shell: Well, yeah. Note that DeLay has been point man for spreading rumors about Hilz’ ‘indictment’. He’s a pathological liar.

  28. 28.

    WaterGirl

    So I guess the old saw about being caught with a dead girl or a live boy… even getting caught with a live boy multiple live boys isn’t a problem for Republicans these days.

    I thought I couldn’t be surprised anymore, I really did.

  30. 30.

    Miss Bianca

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah…just as I choose to celebrate Prince (obligatory Prince reference!) for his more sterling qualities rather than his more questionable ones, I’m still going to watch “Bull Durham” and “Little Women” and enjoy the hell out of SS’s performances. Same with Rosario in “Men in Black” (can’t think of anything else she’s been in).

  32. 32.

    redshirt

    @Mike J: Let’s use a better example: Businesses. Should a business express a political opinion? Your local convenience store? An electrician? A by god real plumber? I’d say no, it’s stupid, it can only hurt their business, regardless of their opinion.

    Who cares what an office drone thinks? But when your local gas station puts up Trump signs, a significant percentage of people will choose to do business elsewhere.

    Acting’s no different. Dawson has pissed off people who would otherwise be fans and support her work.

    It’s the difference between public and private.

  33. 33.

    MattF

    @redshirt: Acting is a skill, doing it brilliantly is a gift. That said, there’s no reason to suppose that an actor’s political opinions make any sense.

  39. 39.

    chopper

    I knew dennis hastert. one of his sons was my best friend and roommate back in college. I wouldn’t be writing a letter on his behalf tho.

  41. 41.

    Mike in NC

    We’re staying with friends at Zephyr Cove, Nevada in a luxury three bedroom condo. Enjoying our first cocktail out on the deck. South Lake Tahoe shoreline is a five minute walk. Breathtaking location, and looking forward to the next seven days unwinding from life’s stresses.

  43. 43.

    Mike J

    @redshirt: You sound like one of those people who told the Dixie Chicks to shut up and sing.

    Presumably, business people (and actors are business people) know the trade off involved in making endorsements. It’s never caused the Chamber of Commerce a quarter second’s hesitation.

  44. 44.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Goblue72:

    Yeah that’s the ticket. David Brock is the reason why Bernie and his surrogates can’t get through a day without showing contempt for millions of voters that didn’t vote or won’t vote for Sanders – the ones he’d need to support him as the Democratic nominee. Can’t imagine why he’s so unpopular with his colleagues. Total mystery.

  46. 46.

    redshirt

    @Mike J: Good point. Though well principled, I’m sure that hurt their careers. Maybe that doesn’t matter.

    Leonardo gave an impassioned global warming speech when receiving his Oscar. I appreciated it, but I bet he lost fans because of it. Again, maybe that doesn’t matter.

  47. 47.

    John Revolta

    @redshirt: Difference is, an actor is (usually) an employee. If people don’t go to her shows because of her politics, she gets paid anyway.

  48. 48.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @redshirt:

    How hard is it to not see a De Niro movie now though? What was the last movie you saw he was in that made the movie memorable?

  52. 52.

    redshirt

    @efgoldman: Agreed. Schilling is a great example. He has the obvious right to say whatever he wants. But should he? Probably not, given that he just shot his media career in the foot.

    Unless Fox Sports is hiring.

    I’m not saying public figures don’t have the right to say whatever they want, just that it’s usually detrimental to their careers to do so.

  53. 53.

    Germy

    NYT: Who Might Hillary Clinton’s Running Mate Be if She’s the Nominee? By ALAN RAPPEPORT and PATRICK HEALY
    Sherrod Brown

  55. 55.

    El Caganer

    @efgoldman: @MazeDancer: That’s exactly right. One’s ability at one’s profession is directly, automatically and always tied to that person’s political beliefs. Seeing what a wingnut John Voight is made me realize that he actually sucked in Midnight Cowboy. And don’t even get me started on Wagner – it’s not the bombastic, over-long compositions, it’s all about the anti-semitism.

    This is wingnut thinking – that all art is inextricably political. NRO fronts this sort of crap all the time. I can understand if there is something so personally repellant about a particular artist that one can’t view that person’s work. But that’s not what this sounds like to me.

  58. 58.

    Germy

    @efgoldman:

    No f-ing way! Not that he isn’t qualified, but you don’t pull a Democratic Senator out of a swing state with a Republiklown governor to appoint a replacement. Not in a year where it’s critical to flip the senate as well as winning the white house.

    That’s a very good point.

  61. 61.

    Germy

    @Mike J:

    Sadly, we’re going to hear a thousand stupid suggests for VP between now and the convention.

    The New York Times is on it!

  63. 63.

    Germy

    Was it someone here who said they wanted to see Al Franken run for president, with Jill Stein as his running mate?

  66. 66.

    redshirt

    @El Caganer: I bet John Voight held different political views when filming Midnight Cowboy then he has over the last 20 or so years.

    I’m prepared to argue that hard core conservatives CANNOT be great artists, unless the medium is propaganda.

  72. 72.

    Matt Rogers

    While there’s gloating on the left about Do a,d Trump’s success, it’s worth remembering that Marxist Bernie Sanders has received a bigger percentage of the vote in the Democrat Primary than Trump has in the Republican.

    Just something to think about,

  74. 74.

    Gin & Tonic

    I’ve been unhealthfully fascinated with this Piketon, Ohio massacre, so reading a bunch of stuff online. The caption to this Daily Mail photo is particularly helpful, as otherwise I wouldn’t have figured out the angle.

  76. 76.

    Mnemosyne

    @El Caganer:

    I have to say, though, that Chinatown is creepy on a whole lot more levels now that we know about Roman Polanski.

    You see, Mr. Gittes, most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they’re capable of ANYTHING.

  77. 77.

    redshirt

    @efgoldman: One assumes Clooney is making an intentional decision to alienate a certain percentage of fans due to his political activities. But in his specific case, it probably doesn’t make a fig of difference, so why not say what he wants would be the calculation.

  85. 85.

    Mnemosyne

    Also, I’ve kinda gotten sucked into Purple Rain on VH1, which I haven’t seen in 25+ years, at least. It’s really pretty similar to 8 Mile, isn’t it? As in, it was clearly the template for 8 Mile in the category of thinly-veiled autobiographies.

    I had also forgotten that it’s all about the Kid learning not to be an abusive ass to women, which is always a good message.

  87. 87.

    Germy

    @raven: I had no idea until recently when I saw it announced on PBS. Will it be as big as his Civil War project? I wonder if he’ll explore the subject of republican politicians who supported the war but somehow found reasons not to serve (Cheney, Trump, etc.)

  88. 88.

    Mnemosyne

    @raven:

    Well, “now” as in “after Chinatown was made,” not “now” as in “recently discovered.” Although the last time the whole thing came up, there were a lot more portions of the victim’s statement released and — sorry, Whoopi — it was rape rape, not statutory rape with a willing minor, which is what his apologists always claimed.

  91. 91.

    raven

    @Germy: Ten part 18 hour series. He says he’ll try to present many views including non-monolithic North and South Vietnamese and Americans. Most of what we see now is the standard whining about being spit on and not given parades.

  94. 94.

    Technocrat

    Uh oh. Shots fired!

    Obama to Black Lives Matter: ‘You can’t just keep yelling’

    “I think that what Black Lives Matter is doing now to bring attention to the problem of a criminal justice system that sometimes is not treating people fairly based on race, or reacting to shootings of individuals by police officers has been really effective in bringing attention to problems,” Obama said in London.

    But he quickly tempered his praise with advice — urging young people to seek compromises and to work within the system.

    “One of the things I caution young people about though, that I don’t think is effective, is you’ve highlighted an issue and brought it to people’s attention … and elected officials are ready to sit down with you, then you can’t just keep yelling at them. And you can’t refuse to meet because that would compromise the purity of your position.”

    That quote is…widely applicable, let’s say.

  98. 98.

    mike in dc

    Watching Beyoncé’s “Lemonade” special on HBO. That SNL sketch where the white people freak out over “Formation” because it’s not directed to them comes to mind. It’s a very…acculturated…set of songs and images. It’s also very good. But this white boy may need a couple more viewings to figure some of it out.

  105. 105.

    mike in dc

    @Technocrat:
    Fortunately there are multiple gradations between “sellout” and “purity troll”. Otherwise we’d either never accomplish anything or worse, enable our ideological rivals to run roughshod over our goals and dreams.

  106. 106.

    Technocrat

    @Miss Bianca:

    See, I was wondering that. This is where Obama gets the rep for 11-dimensional chess, because it’s easy to overthink some of what he does. It’s possible he and Joe are sinding opposite signals on purpose (Biden: We Must Think Big). Or maybe not.

    ETA: Given who Obama is, he’s probably giving what he sees as good advice. Be interesting to see how it is received.

  107. 107.

    redshirt

    @Technocrat: I think so. He knows what he’s saying. We both have to strive hard AND understand the system, and work within it. You keep changing the system until you reach your purity pony, if possible.

  109. 109.

    Miss Bianca

    @Baud: Not saying that. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up saying something similar directly to some other groups.

  110. 110.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Technocrat:
    Josh Barro ‏@ jbarro 18m18 minutes ago
    The word “just” is doing a lot of work here. He’s not saying it’s not okay to yell; he’s saying it’s not sufficient.

  113. 113.

    Tom Q

    @redshirt: Voight not only wasn’t a right-winger back then, he was just about the polar opposite: doing F.T.A. Shows (standing for “Fuck the Army”) with Jane Fonda at the height of her opposition to Vietnam. I often wonder what Fonda thinks about the things he’s saying now.

  114. 114.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I disagree with Josh a bit; I think he’s also saying that you have to realize, when they sit down to listen to you, you just might want to turn down the volume a bit.

  118. 118.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Mnemosyne: I had forgotten Apollonia was so stunning, yet somehow accessible. Not much of a plot, but the film is so well photographed. I love how Wendy & Lisa give Prince shit. And while everyone likes to talk about “Little Nikki”, it was really “Sex Shooter” that was the dripping sex show stopper.

  119. 119.

    Miss Bianca

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Yup. That’s something I had to learn fast when I finally did get my foot in the door to talk to some politicians about issues that were important to me: that no matter what I thought of them, or how important I thought the issue, I had to to deliver my message in a calm and measured and respectful tone, or I wasn’t going to get anywhere. That’s what pissed me off so much last week: I was like, “oh, you think screaming at elected officials to “change their vote” to Bernie is going to get you anywhere? Not so fast.”

  122. 122.

    raven

    @Miss Bianca: I think that’s what really freaked Nixon out when we went to DC for Dewey Canyon III. Not only did we march and do guerrilla theater, we went from office to office and sat with Congress people and explained our opposition to the war.

  123. 123.

    A Ghost To Most

    @Miss Bianca:

    I had to to deliver my message in a calm and measured and respectful tone, or I wasn’t going to get anywhere.

    Nudge, nudge,wink,wink.

    What’s it like?

  125. 125.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Brachiator:

    No, and he’s still using “Wall Street speeches” in his stump speech, while letting Dawson use Monica Lewinsky as a talking point. Jane is all over cable news apparently having given up trying to find the previous years returns, which no reporter is apparently interested in asking about anymore because the liberal media is in the bag for Clinton and her massive conspiracy to steal all Sanders’ votes.

  126. 126.

    smintheus

    Delay: “I have never witnessed a time when he was unkind to anyone.”

    If you don’t actually witness him raping children, then he can’t be ‘unkind’?!

  127. 127.

    gf120581

    @Miss Bianca: Could be worse. They could be threatening delegates and party officials with violence like Trump’s people are doing.

    That said, Bernie supporters harassing superdelegates is counterproductive and stupid. Above all else, it’s shortsighted, which seems to be a hallmark of his campaign. No long term strategy, no planning, just winging it as it goes along and now that things are not going well at all, shooting itself in the foot on a daily basis.

    One thing’s for sure, his surrogates have been awful and not just the Hollywood types like Dawson, Sarandon, and Robbins (who I see is now running with the “we lost NY because of voter fraud” BS). He should have cut Cornell West loose a long time ago.

  128. 128.

    Miss Bianca

    @raven: There’s a time and a place for both. If you can do both, great. But I used to piss off my political theater chums by pointing out that there was only so much theater was going to do to change the world. : )

  129. 129.

    gf120581

    @smintheus: Now why didn’t Sandusky try that defense?

    All seriousness, are you surprised at that behavior from Tom DeLay? Guy’s a convicted felon himself and one of the biggest pieces of shit in recent political history. Loathsome man and a classic example of a guy who cloaks himself in religion as a shield for all his vile behavior.

  132. 132.

    Brachiator

    @redshirt:Let’s see now. Charlie Chaplin and Paul Robeson, just to pick a couple of quick examples, were effectively run out of the country because of their political beliefs and statements. This is OK with you?

    Do you really believe that actors should be second class citizens and sacrifice their First Amendment rights lest their supposed fans feel uncomfortable?

  134. 134.

    Miss Bianca

    @raven: Yow – yeah, I bet your die-ins were a lot more hard-hitting than ours were, no mistake…is that you in the foreground?

  136. 136.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Omnes Omnibus: A remarkably talented man. I’ve read nearly every one of his novels. Author of a sentence I’ve admired and remembered for decades.

    She breathed on him (though a young lady should not eat, because of the known redolence of onions, onions) onions.

  145. 145.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne: I remember being surprised that Purple Rain was not an egotistical vanity project.The Kid is actually schooled early on by Morris Day and the Time in the first battle of the bands. And the Kid has to learn and grow personally.

    Maybe a model for this may be some of the Elvis movies, where the character that Elvis plays is humble and self effacing.

    Prince wasn’t much of an actor here, but the movie itself holds together well. I was surprised to see how good and natural Prince was much later in an episode of the TV show, New Girl.

  146. 146.

    Miss Bianca

    @raven: “search and destroy type ops”? What, were you trashing peoples’ offices?

    Seriously, tho’, thanks for the reminder that crazy as things feel right now, it’s nothing compared to the unrest and upheaval the country was experiencing back when I was a tad during the Johnson/Nixon years.

  150. 150.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Brachiator: If you were a Hollywood exec, would you continue to give roles to an actor whose political statements caused people to avoid their movies?

    FTR: And no, I would not support a Hollywood blacklist.

  152. 152.

    Brachiator

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    As a Hollywood mogul, I would hope to be like Kirk Douglas, who produced and developed a well known little movie, and told the moguls to kiss both his ass and the dimple in his chin. From the Wiki.

    Screenwriter Dalton Trumbo was blacklisted at the time as one of the Hollywood Ten. Douglas publicly announced that Trumbo was the screenwriter of Spartacus, and President-elect John F. Kennedy crossed American Legion picket lines to view the film, helping to end blacklisting. The author of the novel on which it is based, Howard Fast, was also blacklisted, and originally had to self-publish it.

    The film became the biggest moneymaker in Universal Studios’ history, until it was surpassed byAirport (1970).

  153. 153.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Brachiator: You are not answering my question. There is a political question here and a business question. Is it right for a studio to not hire someone because of their political views? I would tend to say no. It is okay to decide that, if the political statements of an actor caused people to stay away from the last two movies that the actor starred in, one won’t put the person in the the lead role of one’s next movie?

  154. 154.

    Brachiator

    @efgoldman: So, you applaud the conservative who says, I’m never buying a ticket to a Sean Penn movie because he always shoots his mouth off about liberal causes. In fact, they should all shut up and just entertain us.

    So, let’s not call it censorship. Do you endorse the political suppression of entertainers?

    Or just expect that entertainers censor themselves?

  156. 156.

    gwangung

    @raven: Folks might want to be on the lookout for the stage play Vietgone, which gives an unheard side from VIetnamese refugees. Now at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival and soon to come to New York.

  157. 157.

    Brachiator

    @Omnes Omnibus: Actually, I did answer your question.

    Now, you are the mogul. Do you demand that any actor you hire suppress their political opinions?

    Also, do you suppress your own political opinions? When someone asks for a political donation, do you just say no if it might hurt your studio?

  160. 160.

    Brachiator

    @efgoldman: So, an employer could fire an actor for advocating gay rights even if he could not fire an actor for being gay. And this would be OK with you. Or you would be neutral.

  162. 162.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Brachiator: No, you dealt with the political issue. Not the business one.

    No, I would never ask anyone to suppress their views, but I don’t discuss politics at work, And no, I would give to causes I believed to be good. OTOH, if actor X was box office poison because he was pro- or anti-death penalty, for example, I might hire someone else. Because my job is to make money for the studio.

  165. 165.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: This often gets hard to avoid working with the public. Wingnuts love discussing their political beliefs to employees of businesses they utilize. This makes sense as they have a captive audience that almost certainly won’t engage them with a contrary opinion. I’ll talk about politics with my colleagues and supervisors, but with patients I usually just pretend like I’m hearing an opinion for the first time in my life.

  166. 166.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope: I have a good Idea of the political positions of many people I work with, but it comes from a couple of years of hearing how they react to news events, seeing bumper stickers, and so on.

    The Taylor Swift thing is still appalling. Do i judge you? Yes.

  167. 167.

    frosty

    @Miss Bianca:

    Seriously, tho’, thanks for the reminder that crazy as things feel right now, it’s nothing compared to the unrest and upheaval the country was experiencing back when I was a tad during the Johnson/Nixon years.

    This is worse. We’ve got Nullification going on in the state legislatures and the Senate. This is more like 1850 than 1965. And 1850 wasn’t lollipops and rainbows.

  168. 168.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The Taylor Swift thing is still appalling. Do i judge you? Yes.

    Would I expect otherwise from you? No. I understand, though. Her music is a simple pleasure and obvious easy target for those looking for a superficial sense of superiority. What I still don’t understand, and never will, is the hatred for the Narnia stories.

    So, in the end, I’ll just leave you with this.

  169. 169.

    Brachiator

    @gene108: What’s the best way of punishing the GOP for the Hastert Hypocrisy? Yeah, the media seems to be downplaying it, but Democrats don’t seem hot to hold the GOP’s feet to the fire either. Maybe there’s no way to do this. Conservatives are quick to throw down the Jesus forgives card for their own, but not for “godless liberals.”

  170. 170.

    Kropadope

    @Brachiator:

    Democrats don’t seem hot to hold the GOP’s feet to the fire either.

    Perhaps because this is the responsibility of law enforcement and Democrats would mostly rather govern than score cheap political points while mugging for cameras.

  172. 172.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: They have strong Christian themes do on occasion express ideas more closely associated with other world religions. There’s also a whole discussion at the end of the last book that boils down to “as long as your heart’s in the right place and you do good and treat people with respect, it doesn’t truly matter which god you worship.”

  173. 173.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope:

    What I still don’t understand, and never will, is the hatred for the Narnia stories.

    I think my answer covered that.

  174. 174.

    sneezy

    @Brachiator:

    So, you applaud the conservative who says, I’m never buying a ticket to a Sean Penn movie because he always shoots his mouth off about liberal causes.

    I’m not the one to whom the question was addressed and don’t presume to speak for anyone but myself, but sure, I think that’s fine. I wouldn’t applaud that decision but neither would I oppose it. I would say I am unconcerned by it.

    It’s fine for any person to not see any movie for whatever reason they like or for that matter, for no reason at all. I wouldn’t expect that to be a controversial view. What possible rationale could there be for saying it is not OK for someone not to see a movie?

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