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You are here: Home / Well I know I had it coming

Well I know I had it coming

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There’s a great Vox interview with Norman Ornstein about the Trumpocalypse:

But if you forced me to pick one factor explaining what’s happened, I would say this is a self-inflicted wound by Republican leaders.

Over many years, they’ve adopted strategies that have trivialized and delegitimized government. They were willing to play to a nativist element. And they tried to use, instead of stand up to, the apocalyptic visions and extremism of some cable television, talk radio, and other media outlets on the right.

I doubt though that Republicans will pay much of a price for this, at least in the short term. Yes, Trump will probably lose and Democrats will do better in the House and Senate than they otherwise would have. But they’ll find a way to obstruct most of what Hillary wants to do, and they’ll probably do okay in the 2018 midterms by attacking Hillary the same way they’ve attacked Obama.

It’s likely that the Republican strategy is suicide long-term. If I were a conservative, I’d be pretty fucking scared by the fact that, not only do young people vote overwhelming Democratic in general elections, they also just voted overwhelmingly for a Democratic socialist in the primary.

But that’s probably not Mitch McConnell’s or Paul Ryan’s or Reince Preibus’ problem. They’ll be gone out of the water by the time it boils.

Reader Interactions

174Comments

  1. 1.

    gene108

    It’s likely that the Republican strategy is suicide long-term.

    I’ll believe it, when Republicans start losing state and local elections and more states flip to be controlled by Democrats.

    Also, there are large stretches of this country that are 90% plus white. And those white folks are plenty happy to have their racism reinforced and easily offended, when they are told that blacks, browns, etc. are people too.

    So I’m not sure how Democrats can hold onto states like West Virginia, Kentucky, etc., where there are not enough minority voters to off-set the racist white vote.

    Democrats may do well in Presidential elections, because the U.S. population is concentrated on the costs, and more diverse in high population areas, but the heavily white areas of the country, which are needed to take back the House and Senate, will be a long hard slog for Democrats.

  2. 2.

    shomi

    “Trump will probably lose”

    You seem so disappointed. Admit it, you want a horse race so you can blog/fearmonger about it just as much as traditional media wants it, encourages it, cheerleads for it. You are part of the same hypcrisy.

  4. 4.

    Brachiator

    Over many years, they’ve adopted strategies that have trivialized and delegitimized government. They were willing to play to a nativist element. And they tried to use, instead of stand up to, the apocalyptic visions and extremism of some cable television, talk radio, and other media outlets on the right.

    Much of this reveals the Villager, in its navel gazing solipsism. It’s all about how the ruling class fucked up and failed to sufficiently fool deluded Republican voters, And of course there is a nod to everyone’s favorite bete noir, the media.

    And so it misses the obvious. That millions of people have lost out on the supposed promise of America, and that Trump is promising to get it back for them, with a vengeance. Meanwhile, hacks like Ornstein wrings his hands over how government has been delegitimized.

    And yeah, Republicans would be scared, if they had a fucking clue. But notice how Ryan and the rest of the GOP Establishment are trying to see how they can make Trump into one of them, or at least pretend that he will conform. It’s kinda like trying to turn the Hulk into another iteration of the Mittbot 2000.

  5. 5.

    Corner Stone

    From that cited Ornstein interview:

    And over the next 16 years, he (Gingrich) put that plan into action. He delegitimized the Congress and the Democratic leadership, convincing people that they were arrogant and corrupt and that the process was so bad that anything would be better than this. He tribalized the political process. He went out and recruited the candidates, and gave them the language to use about how disgusting and despicable and horrible and immoral and unpatriotic the Democrats were.

    Emphasis mine.
    Remind anyone of somebody else?

  7. 7.

    Enhanced Voting Techinques

    @gene108:

    I’ll believe it, when Republicans start losing state and local elections and more states flip to be controlled by Democrats.

    eh, look at California; the GOP hasn’t held a state office since Arnold, and he was a fluke. They’ve been a non factor in the State assembly for years and it’s clear Cal GOP has no intrest in changing. The Cal GOP pols have their safely red districts so all it matters is re-election and the chance to pretend to be important.

  8. 8.

    HinTN

    The great state of Tennessee has four, maybe five, very dense and diverse urban population centers that are passing very inclusive forward-leaning ordinances. However, the State Legislature is dominated by folks from the rural areas and they, again and again, have nullified those city actions because they can. I probably won’t live to see this boil over but it will, sooner or later.

  9. 9.

    Mike in NC

    Kathleen Parker is usually a right-wing apologist, but in her latest column she dismissed Ted Cruz as a “reptilian barfly”, which is pretty accurate.

  10. 10.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jeffro: Like Palin, he’s possible because of the downward spiral, and once he becomes part of them, he accelerates that downward spiral.

  12. 12.

    dedc79

    @gene108:

    I’ll believe it, when Republicans start losing state and local elections and more states flip to be controlled by Democrats.

    That’s the big question. Will the Sanders diehards who insist that they have been shut out by our political system, commit to undertake the hard work to get progressives elected in state legislators in off-year elections? Will they show up and vote for progressives in democratic primaries in non-presidential year elections?

    Will Democrats as a whole commit to close the turnout gap between presidential and non-presidential year elections? If not, and we continue to go all-in on presidential elections, the consequences will be dire when we inevitably lose one.

  13. 13.

    Jeffro

    @gene108:

    I’ll believe it, when Republicans start losing state and local elections and more states flip to be controlled by Democrats…Democrats may do well in Presidential elections, because the U.S. population is concentrated on the costs, and more diverse in high population areas, but the heavily white areas of the country, which are needed to take back the House and Senate, will be a long hard slog for Democrats.

    A long hard slog indeed, because of all that “Dark Money” sloshing around (highly recommend the book of the same name by Jane Mayer) into state and local races of all kinds for the foreseeable future. The Koch operation is going to be able to pour even more into those, since they certainly realize that winning the presidency this cycle and the next several is going to be all but impossible for the current GOP. Meanwhile, they’ll keep setting off campaign-cash atomic bombs state by state, district by district. They’re even ‘dripping’ down into local referenda and school board contests at this point.

  14. 14.

    EdTheRed

    When I was just a baby, my mama told me, “Son, always be a good boy, don’t ever vote for Trump.”
    But I backed him in a caucus, just ‘cuz I was high.
    When I hear that yam a-yammerin’
    I hang my head and cry.

  15. 15.

    Chris

    @gene108:

    I think they may ultimately end up adopting a post-1877 SouthernDemocratish outlook. Resign themselves that the presidency and by extension the national scene are lost to them, but concentrate on maintaining an absolute death grip on politics at the state and local level in Redland and keeping the federal government’s prying hands out of their fiefdoms.

  17. 17.

    NorthLeft12

    Doug, unfortunately the Republicans, and conservatism in general, benefits from the tendency of people to become more conservative in their beliefs as they become older. There are always more RWNJs being matured as we speak.
    I have no idea how or why this happens, but I have seen it enough to know that it does.

  18. 18.

    charon

    @Corner Stone:

    The guy is in second place though – because pragmatism and experience are still regarded as valuable by a majority of the other party.

  19. 19.

    Chris

    @Brachiator:

    Much of this reveals the Villager, in its navel gazing solipsism. It’s all about how the ruling class fucked up and failed to sufficiently fool deluded Republican voters, And of course there is a nod to everyone’s favorite bete noir, the media.

    At least it’s admitting that the ruling class fucked up, and not in a way that uses “ruling class” as a synonym for a mostly imaginary “liberal elite.” And it’s not doing the “we coastal elites have failed to connect sufficiently with those Wholesome Small Town Folksy People! That’s why they’re angry at us!” thing either, it’s admitting that the ruling class fed the Republican voters’ delusions red meat for decades.

    It’s better than the usual Village drivel.

  20. 20.

    Bess

    (I hope this is adequately on-topic.)

    I want to use some money to help return sanity to Congress and keep Trump out of the White House. I don’t think the Democratic candidate needs help right now.

    What I’d like to do is to contribute to an organization that is getting people registered in states where Republicans have made registration difficult. I’d like to see us reach November with many more registered voters.

    Does anyone have a recommendation for an organization that is getting people ready to vote? Especially in a state where it might be possible to flip it to Democrat. And especially in a state where voters might kick out those officials who are suppressing the vote.

  21. 21.

    Brachiator

    @dedc79:

    Will the Sanders diehards who insist that they have been shut out by our political system, commit to undertake the hard work to get progressives elected in state legislators in off-year elections?

    Probably not.

    @Jeffro:

    The Koch operation is going to be able to pour even more into those, since they certainly realize that winning the presidency this cycle and the next several is going to be all but impossible for the current GOP.

    Yep. You’re right about this. The Koch boys and other plutocrats will also continue their efforts to restrict the IRS’s ability to investigate bogus political groups pretending to be charitable organizations.

  22. 22.

    agorabum

    @gene108: agreed; there is still way to much ‘the system is broken so let’s destroy the system’ and other failures to diagnose the cause of the problems as Republicans. It’s why I get mad at Bernie for ripping ‘the establishment’ rather than Republicans. When the far left starts saying both parties are the same, they are part of the problem too.

  23. 23.

    Kropadope

    I doubt though that Republicans will pay much of a price for this, at least in the short term.

    Depends, I’m still holding out hope that Trump will not-so-politely decline the nomination and point out that Republicans are sick fox for nominating someone running on his particular platform and who would talk about his junk in a presidential debate.

  25. 25.

    YellowDog314

    It’s the same approach they take to climate change. They won’t be around when most of Florida disappears underwater. In the meantime, they got their’s.

  26. 26.

    smith

    @Bess: Look at Vote Riders. It’s a national organization, operating year round (not just during general election season) that was formed to counter all the voter suppression going on. I’ve set up a monthly donation to them that I plan to continue for the foreseeable future.

  27. 27.

    Corner Stone

    @charon: Talking about the damage the language plays in to. It delegitimizes government overall and demotivates potential voters. It should not, but IMO it can.

  28. 28.

    MattF

    @Kropadope: More likely that it will end like The Sting. When the going looks like it’ll get tough, he’ll disappear– and the rest of us will be left holding the bag.

  29. 29.

    Hillary Rettig

    I agree with the “Trump is a symptom of a larger disease” crowd.

    Also, I don’t think enough attention is paid to Reagan’s dismantling of the Fairness Doctrine. This is what led to the explosion of right-wing media.

  31. 31.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @different-church-lady:

    Yup. Racism and willful blindness to how racist this country is, is the disease. The willfully blind media is a transmission vector – exhibit A is Rob Reiner’s attempt to name the elephant in the room on Morning Hopeless and Useless, yesterday.

  32. 32.

    gene108

    @Enhanced Voting Techinques:

    eh, look at California; the GOP hasn’t held a state office since Arnold, and he was a fluke. They’ve been a non factor in the State assembly for years and it’s clear Cal GOP has no intrest in changing. The Cal GOP pols have their safely red districts so all it matters is re-election and the chance to pretend to be important.

    Correct me, if I am wrong, but are not white people in CA less than 50% of the population?

    All I’m saying is you can play up white racial resentment in Kansas, Kentucky, Iowa, West Virginia, and many other states, which are 90%+ white and still win, because there are no or not enough minority votes to off-set the white vote.

    If you want Democrats to regain control of the country, you need to figure out how to convince white people in Topeka or Cedar Rapids to reject Republicans; I do not see that happening anytime soon.

    White people, especially white men, are the core of the Republican Party and when a state is 45% white male (10% minority and 45% white female) Republicans will do just fine, with their current set-up.

    Also, too enterprising young people, i.e. future Democrats, are itching to get out of those places and move to big cities.

  33. 33.

    Kropadope

    @gene108:

    Also, there are large stretches of this country that are 90% plus white. And those white folks are plenty happy to have their racism reinforced and easily offended, when they are told that blacks, browns, etc. are people too.

    Oh, like Vermont?

  34. 34.

    trollhattan

    @Hillary Rettig:
    Recalling Obama’s first year, the right wing was constantly shrieking about him bringing back the Fairness Doctrine when he had never mentioned it. They know the value of their Precious.

  35. 35.

    schrodinger's cat

    Forget the usual Democrat-Republican or rich-poor debate. Trump is a serious threat to United States global standing both economic and on foreign policy. The man wants to upend the post WWII global order.

  37. 37.

    Ella in New Mexico

    …Democrats will do better in the House and Senate than they otherwise would have. But they’ll find a way to obstruct most of what Hillary wants to do, and they’ll probably do okay in the 2018 midterms by attacking Hillary the same way they’ve attacked Obama.

    Unless they’ve learned NOTHING from almost 8 years under Obama about standing up, fighting and punching hard instead of trying to “get along” and “compromise” and “seeking common ground” with terrorists….

    @trollhattan:

    Recalling Obama’s first year, the right wing was constantly shrieking about him bringing back the Fairness Doctrine

    I say the Democratic Senate does THIS on Day 1, 2017. And when they R’s try to whine about it they just tell them to STFU and shove it down their throats. No more mister nice guy for us.

  38. 38.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Kropadope:

    Vermont has the 2nd highest rate of black incarceration per capita in the country, so, yes, very much like Vermont.

  39. 39.

    gene108

    @Chris:

    I think they may ultimately end up adopting a post-1877 SouthernDemocratish outlook. Resign themselves that the presidency and by extension the national scene are lost to them, but concentrate on maintaining an absolute death grip on politics at the state and local level in Redland and keeping the federal government’s prying hands out of their fiefdoms.

    But right now Redland is something like 25 states, at a minimum. It’ll be a long time before Republicans become a regional rump party.

  40. 40.

    cleek

    @HinTN:
    NC as well.

    the cities are pretty solidly liberal. it’s the rest of the state that elects the Republicans who keep fucking things up.

  42. 42.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Bess:
    I have a solidly safe Congressman (Kieth Ellison) and a very good Senator (Al Franken) I intend to ask them both for suggestions of districts we stand a chance in & $50 might make a difference to. 4 years ago I was set up by the party to do GOtV calls to a district in Wisconsin, expect to do that here again

  43. 43.

    Kay

    I listened to local Christian radio while driving yesterday- the noon program is basically Right wing politics with a thin religious veneer. The host and callers were horrified by Trump but they’re already bargaining. They believe they should pick Trump’s cabinet. That’s an olive branch they’ll accept. I was kind of amused because the assumption there is Trump will have a cabinet. They’re so confident he’ll win! They were like that with Romney, too.

  44. 44.

    ? Martin

    @gene108:

    Correct me, if I am wrong, but are not white people in CA less than 50% of the population?

    True – and see where that attitude got the GOP. Worth noting that it’s true also in Texas where their day of reckoning is coming.

  46. 46.

    ? Martin

    @Kay:

    They’re so confident he’ll win!

    Gotta give religion credit here – faith is powerful.

  47. 47.

    Brachiator

    @Chris:

    it’s admitting that the ruling class fed the Republican voters’ delusions red meat for decades.

    I think you have hit on part of the heart of the problem.

    Ornstein says the following:

    Trump clearly had a brilliant capacity to channel that discontent among Republican voters — to figure out the issues that’ll work, like immigration, and the ways in which populist anger and partisan tribalism can be exploited.

    He ignores the fact that the discontent is based on anything real. And he clearly hates citizens. They are simply the unruly masses, to be at best controlled by the political master class, and at worst exploited by an outlier like Trump who is not beholden to the conservative political elite.

    I suppose that Ornstein can’t really help himself. As a trained political scientist, he can’t help but like at human beings as though they were collected specimens in a jar.

  48. 48.

    WarMunchkin

    they also just voted overwhelmingly for a Democratic socialist in the primary.

    Is this young voters at-large or Democratic leaning young voters who are exceptionally more engaged than their peers? There is a difference here. George McGovern’s ideological descendants never got elected, did they?

  49. 49.

    Doug!

    @gene108:

    Yes, that’s why nothing is going to change all that quickly. But if I was a Republican strategist trying to figure out how to win the White House over the next 20 years, I’d be very worried right now.

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @? Martin:

    It’s the disconnect again- the two sides are so far apart. Most Democrats think he’ll lose, although they’re superstitious enough here not to admit they think he’ll lose.

    Republicans also believe Obama ruthlessly rolled over Republicans and beat them at every match, which is the opposite of what liberals believe. Part of the reason the base is so angry is because they came out in midterms. won big, and they feel they have nothing to show for it.

    Two Americas :)

  51. 51.

    smith

    @Kay:

    Part of the reason the base is so angry is because they came out in midterms. won big, and they feel they have nothing to show for it.

    We can only hope that they will decide it’s not worth it to come out in midterms. It’s called learned helplessness. The Dems have suffered from it for years — would be nice to see some on the other side.

  52. 52.

    shomi

    @Doug!: No tacky lyrics to go along with that comment?

    How about “Get your kicks on Route sixty-six”.

  53. 53.

    karen marie

    But they’ll find a way to obstruct most of what Hillary wants to do, and they’ll probably do okay in the 2018 midterms by attacking Hillary the same way they’ve attacked Obama.

    And the Bernie Bros, who, despite years of problems with Republicans actively making it difficult to register and/or vote, couldn’t take time out to register and thus were deprived of their right to vote for their hero, will not bother making sure they are registered and then vote in the 2018 midterms, instead whining that it doesn’t matter, that “both sides do it,” so it’s not their fault no Democratic legislation can pass. I can hardly wait.

  54. 54.

    Mike J

    @srv:

    Or you can vote Hillary and cling to your status quo.

    I’ll take that deal.

    Betsey Stevenson ‏@BetseyStevenson 3 hours ago
    We need job growth of roughly 80,000 a month to hold steady, this month was double that. This is pretty rapid growth for 5% unemployment.

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Most Democrats think he’ll lose, although they’re superstitious enough here not to admit they think he’ll lose.

    Of course, the thing is now to make sure to get out the vote to make sure that a Trump defeat happens with an exclamation point.

  56. 56.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Kay: Republican delusion extends far beyond the realm of partisan politics. Climate change, evolution, foreign policy, economics are a few areas where they have replaced their views and opinions for the facts on ground.

  57. 57.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @WarMunchkin:
    I’m old enough to have seen both McGovern and McCarthy supporters (McGovern is a different issue as he was the party’s choice after Nixon sabotaged all the candidates that would have beaten him) Very few of the McCarthy folks stuck around because it was very much a cult of personality. I see some of the same in the Sanders people, they are in love with their image of the guy and expect Jesus-like miracles from him, success without effort. Some will stick & become valuable resources but I bet the majority will not, sadly.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    @Brachiator:

    I haven’t heard a word from anyone on either the Senate race or the Prez. I think they should get on the stick. In ’12 they were canvassing in coats and hats- early spring. I have a photo- they all look like they’re freezing :)

    That was Sherrod Brown and Obama- a combined canvass in the county east of here.

  59. 59.

    TriassicSands

    As always, the real problem in this country is not Donald Trump or the Republican Party, but the ignorant and stupid voters who elect them. If voters were voting rationally, the GOP would be a marginal party and lack the numbers in Congress to stop Democrats. The media continue to contribute to the decay of the US, but they’re responding to what people watch, read, and listen to.

    What is coming is not an election, but a spectacle. The media aren’t preparing to cover an election, but rather to present “must see TV.”

  60. 60.

    Brachiator

    @karen marie:

    And the Bernie Bros, who, despite years of problems with Republicans actively making it difficult to register and/or vote, couldn’t take time out to register and thus were deprived of their right to vote for their hero, will not bother making sure they are registered and then vote in the 2018 midterms, instead whining that it doesn’t matter, that “both sides do it,” so it’s not their fault no Democratic legislation can pass. I can hardly wait.

    In California, there is a big effort to get people registered so that they can vote in the primary and beyond. And because of the way things work here, they are trying to make sure that Independents know what they need to do to be able to vote for Democrats in the primary.

    The trick will be to keep up the effort through the mid terms.

    Also, you can’t just blame Bernie Bros or younger voters for mid term failures. There is always less enthusiasm for the midterm elections, no matter which party won in the prior November presidential election.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    They are really upset about Trump. He doesn’t have any principles. I don’t know if your’e aware of that, but it’s true :)

    None

    I have this personal theory about conservatives. They have to have the moral high ground, or what they perceive to be the moral high ground (obviously I disagree on their definition). Their candidate has to be “a good man”. Trump fits none of that. Obama actually fits it.

  62. 62.

    Kropadope

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I honestly had no idea, though the numbers I found suggest they are the fourth (still awful). I wonder, though, if a lot of this has to do with the composition of police forces. Most police departments are across the country are lopsidedly white and I think this may create a form of empathy gap. Also, as my libertarian friend pointed out to me, not all cops are authoritarian assholes, but if one wants to assert his/herself as an authoritarian asshole, which profession would allow them to do so?

    While I don’t doubt there is ample racism in Vermont, as there is everywhere, the demographic breakdown of incarceration doesn’t paint a complete picture. For starters, while its prison population may have a larger percentage of black people as a whole, the state also has the fifth lowest percentage of its population behind bars. I haven’t found any data correlating these two trends and I don’t pretend to be a statistician, but writing off a state as being racist based on a single data point seems premature. Besides which, I have a hard time seeing a state that is over 90% white which voted overwhelmingly for a black man for president in both the primary and general elections as being virulently racist to the degree that can be seen elsewhere.

  63. 63.

    Barbara

    @Brachiator: I would put it somewhat differently. By delegitimizing government, the Republican Party has taken policy objectives off the table as a means of addressing real problems for many people, including many Republican voters. It has more or less tricked those same voters into seeing government as the cause, and not the possible solution, to their problems, by a particularly ugly and divisive means — stoking racial resentment and accusing minorities of being particularly favored by the government. So, the government is screwing you over by favoring dark people, and is hurting you and is never, ever going to be a source of help for the very real problems you face. And the fact that the Republican Party controlled all three branches of government for at least four years in the last 20 and did nothing whatsoever to address your problems either is just an inconsequential factoid. So now along comes Donald Trump and by God he is going to MAKE government help them by hurting the illegals and the Muslims and keeping them out and sticking it to the Yellow Devil and all the things you guys were IMPLYING needed to be done but were too stupid or ineffectual or cowardly to actually do yourselves.

  64. 64.

    WarMunchkin

    @Schlemazel Khan: I think that’s a different point from what I’m making. If you’re a Democratic candidate winning 80-20 margins among young voters, you’re really only winning those margins in a subset of young people who a) vote and b) are Democrats, which is not at all the same thing as winning younger voters as a whole.

    The statistic is Bernie 80, Hillary 20, only for Democratic leaning younger voters, not Bernie 80, [Hillary + 16 Republicans] 20 among all young voters.

  65. 65.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @WarMunchkin:
    ah, my point, what I thought you were getting at, was “will Sanders supporters stick around for the hard work of electing more & better Dems.”

  66. 66.

    Barbara

    @gene108: Who knows, right? But the thing is, when things start to happen, sometimes they pick up speed and can’t be stopped. The U.S. is essentially gerrymandered by constitutional design, so the pace will necessarily be slower than it should be. But in the end it might not be all that slow, depending on a couple of key determinants, like Supreme Court precedents protecting voter rights and reversing the execrable decision in Buckley v. Valeo and the other money=speech idiocies.

  68. 68.

    Brachiator

    Looking at Ornstein’s Atlantic Article, he was more wrong than right:

    Third, unlike in 2012, when Mitt Romney was the clear frontrunner and the only serious establishment presidential candidate, and all the pretenders were focused on destroying each other to emerge as his sole rival, this time there are multiple establishment candidates with no frontrunner, including Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, John Kasich, and Chris Christie. And each has independent financing, with enough backing from wealthy patrons to stay in the race for a long time, splitting the establishment-oriented vote. The financing, of course, raises point four: We are in a brave new world of campaign finance, where no one candidate can swamp the others by dominating the money race. When establishment nemesis Ted Cruz announced his campaign, he had $38 million in “independent” funds within a week, $36 million of it from four donors. There is likely more where that came from. Some candidates may not find any sugar daddies, or may find that their billionaires are fickle at the first sign of weakness. But far more candidates than usual will have the financial wherewithal to stick around—and the more candidates stick around, the less likely that any single one will pull into a commanding lead or sweep a series of primaries, and thus the more reason to stick around.

    Trump neutralized the money advantage by demolishing each of the Establishment candidates in turn. In fact, he made the money boys pull back their funding of the mainstream losers.

    On top of all this, there are estimates that anti-Trump SuperPacs spent as much as millions on ads to stop Trump’s momentum, only to fail spectacularly. California conservative big wigs spent $55 million to stop Trump, with $36 million of that going to Biggest loser Jeb!

    Trump won his core of voters over early. They stuck to him and could not be dissuaded by anything that his detractors said, even if it were totally true.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Republicans I know personally. Not all “personally” but what I have heard from during elections here. Bush was a “good man” so his blundering around didn’t matter- he had principles.

  70. 70.

    Barbara

    @Brachiator: I say this every chance I get, what has changed over the last 20 years or so is not the rate of fall off in midterm voting among various demographic groups, but the divergence in political views of these demographic groups by age. That is, voters in the modern era have never been further apart in political orientation as “liberal” or “conservative” based on their age cohort than they are now. Older demographics have always been more likely to vote in the midterm but older voters are now much more likely to be more conservative than younger voters than they have been in the past. It takes a catastrophe like Katrina to get younger voters in a midterm election. I don’t know when this particular pattern will moderate but probably not for a decade or more. Happy thoughts.

  71. 71.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Barbara:

    I’ve read several accounts of Trump supporters admitting they don’t really think he’ll do what he says, although there’s a faction that believes him when he boasts because “he builds stuff”, but they like what he says, how he says it, and agree with him. If they can’t get what they want – mass deportations and Muslim bashing – they want to be total loudmouthed assholes at the front of the pack shouting down everyone else. That’s what they think of when they think of “winning”.

  72. 72.

    NotMax

    @Kay

    Y’know who else had principles?

    /Godwin

    Bush had an enlarged liver more than he had principles.

  73. 73.

    WarMunchkin

    @Schlemazel Khan: Honestly? Some will, some won’t, for the same reasons as everyone else. Life comes up, people have careers and difficulties that they need to work through before they can even think about politics.

    I don’t agree with the people here – young voters who are engaged are engaged because they care about politics and will continue to do so. There’s always a natural drop in turnout among Democratic-leaning constituencies of all sorts in off-years and especially so when the demographic you’re courting doesn’t have a permanent living situation. (! this is a pet peeve of mine)

    Also, to go even further, not only does democratic socialism not poll at 80% among young voters, you have to consider that turnout is low among young voters in general.

    56 percent of voters age 18 to 29 said they want a Democrat in the White House, compared with 36 percent who would prefer a Republican.

    This is, again, just young primary voters. Among young primary voters, this means that Democratic Socialism polls at roughly 45%. I think the rules are that we can only assume this represents youth at large if we assumed that that was a representative sample of youth, but I think this is sampling bias.

  74. 74.

    Barbara

    @Kay: Yet, as upset as they are, they seem to be unduly focused on whether they personally “liked” the other candidates enough to support them in a meaningful way against Trump. The refusal to support Kasich, for instance, seemed to be based on the fact that he is a nasty scold, not any policy disagreement (Medicaid expansion is an issue for some people, but not donor class types, and has significantly moderated in the last year or so). I mean, I am happy that Kasich isn’t the guy, he would be stronger, but I still find the process to be astounding.

  75. 75.

    patroclus

    Ornstein has moved in the right direction over the past few years in that he’s much more willing to correctly blame the Republicans for our current dysfunction and accurately state that Trump is the most ill-informed candidate in history. But he’s still from AEI, which is basically center-right and has enabled the Republicans for decades by treating them as a legitimate political party with legitimate ideas. He exempts Ryan and McConnell from serious criticism; he still does a “both sides do it” critique and is only 20-80 in his analysis. He still hedges his bets. It’s good that he’s moved, but he needs to go further, he should be more full-throated. He should advocate for an immigration bill; not just express doubts about its chances. He should advocate for a climate change bill. He should advocate for criminal justice reform, for mental health reform, for infrastructure investment. Instead, he just makes predictions and projects doubt about our chances. It’s a start, but we need more help from people like him and he’s not providing it.

  76. 76.

    Barbara

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yes, it’s a very depressing situation. They are okay with being fucked over so long as the guy doing it is willing to hate the same people they hate out loud instead of just in private where no one else can hear.

  79. 79.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Kropadope:

    Besides which, I have a hard time seeing a state that is over 90% white which voted overwhelmingly for a black man for president in both the primary and general elections as being virulently racist to the degree that can be seen elsewhere.

    Racial profiling is a fact of life here. Vermont incarcerates black people at the fourth-highest rate in the U.S., but no one talks about that. I have been beating on that drum for a while now, and I hoped that Bernie would up that mantle, but he has not. He is like a lot of Vermonters who like to congratulate themselves on how progressive they are but sweep these issues under the rug.”

    Vermont’s Black Leaders Were Invisible to Bernie Sanders

    White progressives’ racism is of a more genteel, patronizing and dismissive flavor, compared to the loutish boorish red meat white hood kind.

  80. 80.

    Brachiator

    @Barbara:

    So now along comes Donald Trump and by God he is going to MAKE government help them by hurting the illegals and the Muslims and keeping them out and sticking it to the Yellow Devil and all the things you guys were IMPLYING needed to be done but were too stupid or ineffectual or cowardly to actually do yourselves.

    Yes. You have very eloquently summarized how Trump got to the heart of the actual discontent of his base, a discontent that the mainstream GOP stoked, but never assuaged.

  81. 81.

    gwangung

    @gene108:

    White people, especially white men, are the core of the Republican Party and when a state is 45% white male (10% minority and 45% white female) Republicans will do just fine, with their current set-up.

    Also, too enterprising young people, i.e. future Democrats, are itching to get out of those places and move to big cities.

    Hm. Let’s not forget there’s been migration of black Americans away from the coasts and into the midwest and the South, mainly due to housing prices. Let’s keep an eye on those trends.

  83. 83.

    The Other Chuck

    @Kropadope: The entire population of Vermont is less than San Francisco. It’s hard to draw any conclusions on per-capita statistics from that state.

  86. 86.

    hovercraft

    The pot will boil eventually, as you said most of them will be gone by then. In an effort to postpone the day of reckoning they impose voting restrictions. Their voters are dying off and more brown and black people are coming of age every day, they can’t stop that.
    As Norm Ornstein said in the piece the media is a big culprit in this process. But unfortunately for them and the republicans they are also dying, people are not getting their news from them. It’s not just republicans who don’t trust the lamestream TM media anymore.
    The movement of the purple states further and further south is both because of baby boomers moving down, and also the browning of the south. So it may take a while but Maria Teresa Kumar of Voto Latino says that the naturalization numbers and new registration numbers are reminiscent of what happened after the passage of Prop 187. Prop 187 and Prop 8 passed there was a reaction. My wishful thinking is that is they lose and then block immigration reform, that will bring out democrats in the midterms. Until we can motivate the young and minorities in midterms we are all doomed.

  87. 87.

    Ken

    @Kay:

    I was kind of amused because the assumption there is Trump will have a cabinet.

    I’m more amused by the assumption that Trump would listen to the Christian right when picking his cabinet.

  89. 89.

    Ken

    @srv: Interesting. Apparently lobbyists do have some moral sense and limits to what they’re willing to do.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    @Ken:

    I kind of agree. They don’t have the clout they once had. I’m convinced the business-conservative group of Republicans think they’re a huge pain in the ass. It’s like business-friendly Democrats with labor.

  94. 94.

    D58826

    @Enhanced Voting Techinques: True but Calif. has a large Latino population and the GOP antagonized them with prop. 187

    California Proposition 187 (also known as the Save Our State (SOS) initiative) was a 1994 ballot initiative to establish a state-run citizenship screening system and prohibit illegal aliens from using non-emergency health care, public education, and other services in the State of California. Voters passed the proposed law as a referendum in November 1994. The law was challenged in a legal suit and found unconstitutional by a federal district court. In 1999, Governor Gray Davis halted state appeals of this ruling.
    Passage of Proposition 187 reflected state residents’ concerns about illegal immigration into the United States. Opponents believed the law was discriminatory against illegal immigrants of Hispanic or Asian origin; supporters maintained that their concerns were economic: that the state could not afford to provide social services for so many illegal residents

    Absent that I think the ‘it will be hard to flip a 90% white state’ is valid.

  95. 95.

    Immanentize

    @raven: Also, Raven, although this is mostly small batch artisanal data (anecdotal) on my part — the military, and the fact that the southern senators have been geniuses at getting federal dollars to maintain southern bases, has been instrumental in creating/maintaining fairly stable middle-class minority populations in a number of near-base cities. I have not seen the same effect in near-base rural areas.

  96. 96.

    Cacti

    @karen marie:

    And the Bernie Bros, who, despite years of problems with Republicans actively making it difficult to register and/or vote, couldn’t take time out to register and thus were deprived of their right to vote for their hero, will not bother making sure they are registered and then vote in the 2018 midterms, instead whining that it doesn’t matter, that “both sides do it,” so it’s not their fault no Democratic legislation can pass. I can hardly wait.

    And will likely go back to Xbox and bong hits, rather than “political revolution” for the next midterm elections.

    Except for Ella in New Mexico’s kid, she’s special. The rest of them? Meh.

  97. 97.

    gwangung

    @raven: That’s a historical analysis, and I think we’re talking a newer trend, within the last few years, making places like SF and Seattle and probably LA a lot more white…..

  100. 100.

    RoonieRoo

    just voted overwhelmingly for a Democratic socialist in the primary.

    This is the most important part of this election season to me. I’m a Hildabeast big time because I simply believe that she will have a better time moving her agenda ahead than Bernie would have. But I am delighted beyond all measure that Bernie with his out loud and proud Democratic Socialism has done as well as it has. It gives me some hope for the future.

    Honestly, that is the part of the primary that should scare the GOP way more than Trump being their nominee. But I just don’t think they are aware enough to really catch it.

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    Cook Political Report shifts a dozen states more blue.

    Now that Donald Trump is the presumptive Republican nominee, 12 states just shifted in Democrats’ favor and one went Trump’s direction in the latest set of ratings from The Cook Political Report.

    The nonpartisan newsletter announced Thursday that it was changing 13 ratings on its Electoral Vote scorecard now that Trump has pretty much clinched his the GOP nomination, much to the dismay of some in his party (like say, House Speaker Paul Ryan).

    “Although we remain convinced that Hillary Clinton is very vulnerable and would probably lose to most other Republicans, Donald Trump’s historic unpopularity with wide swaths of the electorate — women, millennials, independents and Latinos — make him the initial November underdog,” The Cook Political Report writes. “As a result, we are shifting 13 ratings on our Electoral Vote scorecard, almost all of them favoring Democrats.”

    Indiana, Missouri and Nebraska’s 2nd district, which had all been labeled “solid” Republican territory, have shifted leftward in Cook’s ratings. Indiana and Missouri are now labeled “likely” Republican and Nebraska’s 2nd district has moved into a “toss up” between parties. (Nebraska, like Maine, can split its electoral votes.)

    Arizona and Georgia, which were “likely” Republican states previously, are now rated as “lean” Republican. North Carolina, which was previously a “lean” state for Republicans, has been moved to “toss up.”

    Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin were all “toss up” states, but The Cook Political Report now predicts they’ll “lean” toward Democrats. New Mexico, which was rated “Likely Democratic,” has shifted solidly blue.

  102. 102.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @D58826:
    I think Trump is the national Prop 187. When Hispanics, Muslims, and just maybe even women think of the Republican Party for two generations, Trump’s overt hate and his snarling mobs will be what they see. Combined with a Supreme Court that increases rather than cuts away at voting rights at every opportunity, there is a political shift happening.

  103. 103.

    Kropadope

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Bernie has been consistently anti-immigrant in his years as a Senator. His campaign has conveniently swept that under the rug right now.

    That’s just flat out not true. While he voted against the 2007 immigration reform effort, he did so based on a belief that its provisions would allow for the continued exploitation of immigrant workers, hurting immigrant and native-born workers alike. He supported the 2013 effort, despite similar qualms, because those problems were at least mitigated compared to previous versions of the bill. His presidential campaign states that he supports a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants and I don’t see any reason to believe otherwise.

  104. 104.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I have this personal theory about conservatives. They have to have the moral high ground, or what they perceive to be the moral high ground (obviously I disagree on their definition). Their candidate has to be “a good man”. Trump fits none of that. Obama actually fits it.

    You’ve pushed this theory more than once, and I can’t disagree. And, because The President actually fits it – it drives them crazy. And, I do mean insane.

  105. 105.

    Robbocop

    If Hillary gets elected, we will all pay the ultimate price. The idea that Republican will do better in 2018 will be completely irrelevant once the 5th leftist supreme is in place. Who will care what party controls an irrelevant congress after the Presidency becomes a dictatorship.

  106. 106.

    patroclus

    @schrodinger’s cat: Indeed, the media will play it’s horse-race-only, tactical analysis and pretend that Trump is a legitimate candidate, with virtually no policy analysis as usual. Which is why people like Ornstein need to explain why policy choices are relevant and why the country needs to do things to address its problems. We need an immigration bill. We need an Employment non-Discrimination Act. We need to raise the minimum wage. We need a climate change bill. We need 9 Justices on the USSC. We need DOJ investigations of police departments. We need to encourage voting. We need infrastructure investment. Instead of doing just horse-race stuff, we need policy debates and explanations of complex issues. It’s like we’re all Theodore White and are only interested in the “Making of the President.” Ornstein is a wonk – he should be doing this; not just predicting horse-race outcomes.

  107. 107.

    Fair Economist

    But that’s probably not Mitch McConnell’s or Paul Ryan’s or Reince Preibus’ problem. They’ll be gone out of the water by the time it boils.

    The pot may boil sooner than that. The lynchpin of the current Republican voting base is not so much whites per se, it’s the Silent Generation – generally people too young to have experienced the Great Depression but old enough to have grown up with the idea that blacks weren’t allowed to marry their sister, or even sit next to them on the bus. They’re dying off fast, and in 20 years they’ll be mostly gone, replaced by Democratic-leaning Millenials. At that point even the old Confederate states could be flipping.

    McConnell will probably be retired by then, but Ryan and Priebus will probably be in politics long enough to get swept out by that wave. Ryan’s district is only R+3 – most likely he’s gone within a decade. He could very well lose this year.

  109. 109.

    Ridnik Chrome

    @srv: People have been saying that about liberalism since Reagan. And yet, amazingly, liberalism is still around.

  110. 110.

    rikyrah

    @Brachiator:

    On top of all this, there are estimates that anti-Trump SuperPacs spent as much as millions on ads to stop Trump’s momentum, only to fail spectacularly. California conservative big wigs spent $55 million to stop Trump, with $36 million of that going to Biggest loser Jeb!

    The Donors have spent $375 million – on the other 16 in the GOP Clown Car.

    I don’t believe that includes the money spent for the Stop Trump movement.

    And, they wound up with Donald.

    Add in the hundreds of millions they spent on Willard in 2012.

    tee hee hee
    makes me smile.

  111. 111.

    catclub

    From Barry Ritholtz (The Big Picture) – Wall Street Guy

    First, a disclosure: I am terribly amused by Donald Trump. Despite his lack of political experience or grasp of policy, I have found his run for president very entertaining. Even more intriguing, he is potentially good for the country and better for the Republican Party.

    What I mean by “good” is that a two-party system only functions properly when you have two functional parties. At present, America lacks that. Trump could very well help achieve that worthy goal by burning the Republican Party to the ground, forcing the next generation of conservatives to rebuild it from scratch, into a rational and logically coherent organization, as opposed to whatever indescribable mess it is now.

  112. 112.

    D58826

    @srv: Baring a revolution in November like the one in 1917 Moscow or 1789-1793 Paris, Bernie will get absolutely nothing done as President, other than veto GOP passed legislation. Hillary, if she is lucky and while dodsging impeachment for unpaid parking tickets, might get 1% done. She to will wear out a truck load of veto pens. So I would rate maintaing the status quo a victory given the GOP alternative

  113. 113.

    Cacti

    @Kropadope:

    That’s just flat out not true. While he voted against the 2007 immigration reform effort, he did so based on a belief that its provisions would allow for the continued exploitation of immigrant workers, hurting immigrant and native-born workers alike.

    I’m going to call the Senator’s initials on this one.

    That’s his post hoc rationalization for it. Take a peek at his 2007 interview with Lou Dobbs, and you’ll see that Bernie’s concern was that the brown menace was coming to take our jerbs and depress our wages.

    And his vote to give cover to the Minutemen border thugs is indefensible.

  114. 114.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @catclub:

    I am terribly amused by Donald Trump. Despite his lack of political experience or grasp of policy, I have found his run for president very entertaining.

    I’m really fucking tired of this “let’s watch the world burn har de har har” hot take on Trump, by white guys. There’s absolutely nothing amusing about this clusterfuck.

  115. 115.

    Agrippa

    @gene108:
    Yes, it will be a long hard slog to take back the HoR and Senate.
    There are far too many white people who are insulated and isolated.

  116. 116.

    patroclus

    @Cacti: I think Hillary has done a good job of forcing Bernie to move leftwards on immigration reform and guns. That, plus the reality of Bernie trying to appeal to city-dwellers for the first time in his electoral history. Pushing her rival and fellow Dems leftward on a whole host of issues has been one of Hillary’s big accomplishments this primary season. I’m hopeful she will be similarly effective in the general election.

  118. 118.

    Kropadope

    @Cacti:

    That’s his post hoc rationalization for it. Take a peek at his 2007 interview with Lou Dobbs, and you’ll see that Bernie’s concern was that the brown menace was coming to take our jerbs and depress our wages.

    That’s just looking at the same argument from a different angle which is not particularly fair to Bernie’s actual position on this. Immigrants workers can’t depress our wages, only employers can. The bill he voted against would make it easier for them to do so. He voted for a different version of the bill that didn’t have that problem to the same degree. Was he just faking it in 2013?

  119. 119.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Kropadope: There is more to immigration than just the issue of the undocumented. At almost every opportunity he has got he has voted to make life difficult for legal immigrants, especially those whose applications for permanent residency are winding their way to the byzantine bureaucratic channels and are currently on work visas and working in the United States.

  120. 120.

    Agrippa

    @D58826:
    I rate the status quo as a victory as well.
    Sanders will not be able to get anything accomplished at all.
    Clinton has more experience; and, has better people skills.
    I think that she would get more accomplished.
    In those two Revolutions, Sanders would be sent to the wall.

  121. 121.

    The Golux

    @MattF: OT to your OT, but does anyone know how to get rid of the social media widget that obscures the left half inch of text on WaPo pages?

    Someone slept through Web Design 101.

  122. 122.

    NR

    @karen marie:

    And the Bernie Bros, who, despite years of problems with Republicans actively making it difficult to register and/or vote, couldn’t take time out to register and thus were deprived of their right to vote for their hero, will not bother making sure they are registered and then vote in the 2018 midterms, instead whining that it doesn’t matter, that “both sides do it,” so it’s not their fault no Democratic legislation can pass. I can hardly wait.

    And if Hillary wins, I can hardly wait for two years to pass with absolutely nothing of substance getting done, except maybe for “strengthening” Social Security and Medicare with chained CPI and raising the age of eligibility, and then for everyone here to blame the 2018 midterm disaster on “BernieBros” and “whiny liberals who don’t turn out” while being willfully blind to the fact that if you want people to vote for your party, you have to give them a reason to do it.

  123. 123.

    Agrippa

    @Chris:
    At the end of the day, they may do that.
    The GOP is, after all, controlled by the descendants of the Dixie crats.

  124. 124.

    Bob In Portland

    @NR: Exactly. And the numbers between H. Clinton and Trump keep narrowing.

  125. 125.

    Cacti

    @Kropadope:

    That’s just looking at the same argument from a different angle which is not particularly fair to Bernie’s actual position on this.

    I know. It’s so mean to hold the prince of progressive purity to what comes out of his mouth.

    Immigrants workers can’t depress our wages, only employers can. The bill he voted against would make it easier for them to do so.

    Yep, those crafty border jumpers have been keeping suburban millennials away from cushy jobs as unskilled laborers and agricultural workers for too long now.

    Won’t anyone think of little Austin’s life long dream of picking tomatoes, or little Dakota’s goal of being a Motel 6 housekeeper. Damn those Juans and Marias keeping them from coming true.

  126. 126.

    Calouste

    @gwangung:

    That’s a historical analysis, and I think we’re talking a newer trend, within the last few years, making places like SF and Seattle and probably LA a lot more white…..

    Less black, not a lot more white. The biggest minorities in both Seattle and SF are Asians, then Hispanics, then AA. Looking at the demographic trends, there will probably more Asians in SF than non-Hispanic whites in about 20 years.

  127. 127.

    Ruckus

    @NorthLeft12:
    It’s more herd mentality than aging. Sure you want to take fewer chances on your own, as life throws you in quite different directions that are pretty much life changing without you doing anything. If some of your friends are conservative or in the case of those in the 60-90 age group who were republicans in the 20-40 range, because they weren’t as batshit then and see no reason to change, because life was different when they were kids. It wasn’t better, just different. But some people learn and become more liberal as they age. Look at all the old farts on this blog. How many of them are conservative? How many of them were conservative in their younger days? Yes it’s a random sample that is self selecting by the nature of the blog but saying that getting older makes you more conservative is bullshit. Some of us realize that the earth will keep spinning long after we are gone and that there will be more people here after we are long gone. Some of us would like to leave the place better than we found it. Old farts are not necessarily not reachable, it just takes a different path to get there than someone just reaching adulthood. And few have been willing to try any path to change. Democrats have been on the defensive for decades, what with some of our candidates being, shall we say less than stellar and the republicans storming along with the southern strategy. President Obama has been the first, my term here, truly active democrat in ages. Bill Clinton was still trying to keep the place afloat, he didn’t have the place to pivot off of that President Obama had, the GWB disaster. Now we have the chance to continue that progress. That alone will change a lot of minds, old or young. It would be easier if the republicans hadn’t spent the last 25 yr lying and fucking over both Bill and Hillary. But then that is all they were able to understand and do because governing is far beyond their capabilities.

  129. 129.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Kropadope:

    While I don’t doubt there is ample racism in Vermont, as there is everywhere, the demographic breakdown of incarceration doesn’t paint a complete picture. For starters, while its prison population may have a larger percentage of black people as a whole, the state also has the fifth lowest percentage of its population behind bars. I haven’t found any data correlating these two trends and I don’t pretend to be a statistician, but writing off a state as being racist based on a single data point seems premature.

    Not when there’s yet another opportunity for Connie the Shit-oyyenne to play “Six Degrees of Separation from Bernie Sanders”. Or to bash all white people as being racist by using incredibly skewed and distorted “per-capita” statistics or outright false numbers.

    Of course, the fact that Vermont has the lowest incarceration rate since 2002, and has only 1.2% of it’s entire population of 626,000 of which about 1600 people are in jail and of those 160 are black shouldn’t matter. Nor should the fact the state is apparently trying to find out how to reduce these statistical inequities.

    Or the fact that in America as a nation, more of our black folks come from a long, long legacy of not doing so very well and ending up living in cities, in low income communities where criminal activity is far more salient, far more “normalized”, as are police forces, and so become unequally involved in criminal arrests and incarceration.

    No, only in “Bernie Sanders’ Vermont” is disproportionate racial representation a problem in the criminal justice system. Because he personally convicts and sentences all the black people in jail there. Apparently.

    http://mic.com/articles/124341/here-s-how-black-people-actually-fare-in-vermont-with-bernie-sanders-as-their-senator#.HjL1RYPUF

  131. 131.

    Cacti

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    There is more to immigration than just the issue of the undocumented. At almost every opportunity he has got he has voted to make life difficult for legal immigrants, especially those whose applications for permanent residency are winding their way to the byzantine bureaucratic channels and are currently on work visas and working in the United States.

    It’s also spectacularly hypocritical that he recycles all of the same arguments that were made against his own immigrant father, whose ability to immigrate to the U.S. as an unskilled 17 year old likely saved his life from the predations of Nazi Germany.

  132. 132.

    Stan

    @Cacti: I have a real problem with this.

    I am a lifelong dem, prime voter, volunteered on numerous campaigns & other causes, and ran for office three times (won twice).

    BUT the local democratic party here has this same unwelcoming attitude towards anyone or anything new. So do I see a lot of young people volunteering or getting involved in the party? of course not. The party consists of a bunch of old (65-plus) people who are crabby as hell and don’t reach out to anyone. It’s very frustrating, but for the wrong reasons.

  133. 133.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Bernie has been consistently anti-immigrant in his years as a Senator. His campaign has conveniently swept that under the rug right now.

    Links to actual facts, figures and legislation that cannot otherwise be explained except by Bernie Sander’s being racist and anti-immigrant, please.

  134. 134.

    Cacti

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    What do you think of Jane Sanders collecting $5k a year to sit on a board that directs where waste will get dumped in impoverished, Hispanic border communities?

    Very progressive, no?

    Lemme guess. It’s not her fault because blah blah blah.

  135. 135.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Bob In Portland:

    And the numbers between H. Clinton and Trump keep narrowing.

    I guess you have a point if by “keep narrowing” you mean just in April. Between about November and April they were widening:

    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton

    But the margin between Sanders and Trump, while larger, has been narrowing for the past couple of weeks as well:

    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders

    So I think that more than anything else, this is conservatives starting to decide that Trump is not beyond the pale, as he sews up the nomination. I expect to see more of that for a while.

  136. 136.

    Elie

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    As important, is the loss of “we” — which has become “me” — not only for the right but the left/progressives (though less dominant right now). Its the crazy over expression of individualism mixed with libertarianism — “I am going to do what I want and I don’t care about anything else”. They emotionally cannot understand group action in we. Even though they attend rallies together, there is little expression of group solidarity.. except in keeping those other folks out. Its mostly that Trump represents MY interests, MY aspiration and MY goals. Getting it done is emotionally foreign because it requires WE — and working together and making compromise. Nope — Trump and to a lesser extent Bernie, represent ME. ME, ME. They are the mirrors of the need for ME — That is what makes this so different and transformative —

  137. 137.

    Cacti

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Links to actual facts, figures and legislation that cannot otherwise be explained except by Bernie Sander’s being racist and anti-immigrant, please.

    His vote to support the Minutemen.

    Good luck ‘splaining that one away.

    Three of those nice Minutemen patriots murdered a 9-year old girl and her father in Arizona. Shot the little girl in the face at point blank range.

    Good call, Bernie.

  138. 138.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Cacti: off track as usual. Has nothing to do with the original comment, just another chance to troll and bash.

    Anyway, Hilz is winning. Why are you and Con wasting so much time on Jane Sanders now? You have issues with women in general? Lemme guess–you get paid for this blah blah blah stuff by the post or by the paragraph?

  140. 140.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Connie the Shit-oyyenne to play “Six Degrees of Separation from Bernie Sanders”. Or to bash all white people as being racist by using incredibly skewed and distorted “per-capita” statistics or outright false numbers.

    I have no idea what that even means, but the fact that you’re compelled to be a creepy stalking weirdo says way more about you, cupcake, and the mental state of the kinds of people that Sanders attracts, than me. Fuck off.

  141. 141.

    D58826

    @Corner Stone: Loved this from the interview

    So when you get a Donald Trump, who is contentless, and knows less about policy, domestic or international, I would say, than any candidate in the last 50 years — including Pat Paulsen, the comedian

    bolds mine

  143. 143.

    Cacti

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Anyway, Hilz is winning. Why are you and Con wasting so much time on Jane Sanders now? You have issues with women in general? Lemme guess–you get paid for this blah blah blah stuff by the post or by the paragraph?

    As I thought, you’ve got nothing.

    And apparently have no problem with Mr. and Mrs. 99% getting paid to dump Vermont’s waste on poor browns.

  147. 147.

    D58826

    @Cacti:

    And his vote to give cover to the Minutemen border thugs is indefensible

    . I know he voted to protect the gun manufaactures and has been completely tone deaf to the Sandy Hook families but this is a new one. There was a long artivle in Slate about what you don’t know about Bernie but the GOP does and that wasn’t in it. Details? oops never mind just saw the earlier post

  148. 148.

    Ella in New Mexico

    For Cacti, who apparently doesn’t’ know that sometimes people actually read the text, not just the click bait headlines. If I can forgive Hilary for her stupid AUMF vote, I’m not wasting my time on this crap. Or the garbage wars of Jane Sanders.

    “According to the Congressional Research Service’s official summary of the bill, it would, among other things, “permit indefinite detention of specified dangerous aliens under orders of removal who cannot be removed, subject to review every six months…the types of undocumented immigrants who would be affected by this provision are a specific, smaller subset — those who are deportable, often due to having a criminal record, but who are awaiting a final legal decision..Finally, it’s misleading to say, as Clinton did, that supporters were primarily “hard-line Republicans.” A number of liberal Democrats also supported the bill, including such prominent lawmakers as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California and future Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio.”

    “Both campaigns acknowledge that this refers to a 2006 amendment — which Sanders voted for — to a large Homeland Security appropriations bill. It was designed to bar the Department of Homeland Security from providing “a foreign government information relating to the activities of an organized volunteer civilian action group, operating in the State of California, Texas, New Mexico, or Arizona…the legislation was in response to conspiracy theories–“A statement on a Mexican government website “was interpreted by Minutemen and supporters as the U.S. government collaborating with an enemy state, and putting the lives of patriotic Americans at risk…the amendment was moot, and thus harmless.

    “People put forward nuisance amendments all the time,” Michael Briggs, a Sanders spokesman told BuzzFeed last December. “In this case, the Customs and Border Patrol said it was a meaningless thing.” http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/10/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-supported-minu//blockquote>

  150. 150.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    the fact that you’re compelled to be a creepy stalking weirdo says way more about you, cupcake, and the mental state of the kinds of people that Sanders attracts, than me. Fuck off.

    So now replying in kind to your trash-talk and tangential Sanders bashing is stalking you? You really DO think you own the place, don’t you cupcake?

    Oh, I’m supporting Hilary by the way.

  151. 151.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @catclub:

    I did – it’s a very arm’s length observation of some “worthy goal” that belies all the suffering of those people who will be most affected by the whirlwind Trump’s creating, which isn’t likely to be Barry Ritholtz.

  155. 155.

    HinTN

    @cleek: It’s a damn shame we don’t have the leadership you do in your Moral Monday action. I can remember when Tennessee had a semi-progressive majority across the State but Reaganism killed that off.

  156. 156.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Cacti:[email protected]Cacti:

    And will likely go back to Xbox and bong hits, rather than “political revolution” for the next midterm elections.

    Except for Ella in New Mexico’s kid, she’s special. The rest of them? Meh.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! Just saw this…long before I ever even replied to one of your comments, and again, totally off track. Just as I thought: you and the Conner REALLY ARE PROFESSIONAL TROLLS!

    All I can say is at least she is real. And I AM real. With a real opinion and a real job and a real life outside of lurking in blog commentary all day, every day.

  160. 160.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @schrodinger’s cat: Well, since you apparently didn’t read the link, I’d say it’s YOU who are ignoring MY comments and I’m done with this conversation.

  161. 161.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Schlemazel Khan: Yeppers. Not only have I seen this movie before, I was a 19-year-old extra in some of the scenes; it’s called Democratic Campaign 1968 & it ends with the great majority of the Clean4Gene kids going home in disgust grumbling that Humphrey/Nixon = Tweedledum/Tweedledee & sitting on their hands in the fall. (Challenge to Millenial Bernfeelers: Prove me wrong!)

  162. 162.

    D58826

    @Matt McIrvin: I suspect that if Bernie was the front runner the numbers would be narrowing. It would be very unlikely. given the past few election cycles if the kind of 8/10/12 point spreads that we see now are maintained thru November. Much more likely something in the order of 52%-48%. Bush/Kerry in 2004 – 62,040,610 – 50.73% /59,028,439 – 48.27% (Rounding error Ralph Nader) is the missing piece). And

    Barack Obama is the first president in more than five decades to win at least 51 percent of the national popular vote twice, according to a revised vote count in New York eight weeks after the Nov. 6 election.

    In 2012 it was 51% to 47%.

  163. 163.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: @Cacti: @schrodinger’s cat:

    What is really sad about the flame out of the Sanders vs. Clinton Balloon Juice Warz it that while the rest of us normal people are pivoting to the General, you sad sacks will still be crawling around Jane Sander’s garbage pits, sucking dried, dirty remnants of old cat food cans like the fucking Prawns from District 9.

  164. 164.

    ksmiami

    @Robbocop: The Ef you say? The only fascists in this country are in the GOP. If anything, a liberal court is better and more balanced for all the inhabitants of the country since a liberal court will most often side with the individual citizen whereas most of Scalia’s writings favored the already powerful, but go on with your delusions. Oh and RTR sorry all your guys lost

  166. 166.

    Cacti

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    I have every confidence that eventually, you’ll get out of your dead-enders for Bernie/martyr routine.

    But you’re not there yet.

    Keep working through your Kubler-Ross stages.

  171. 171.

    J R in WV

    @The Golux:

    If you click on the little widget, it opens a larger panel on the right, which has an “X” to allow you to close it. Then you should be OK.

  172. 172.

    Brachiator

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Voting for Trump is not going to do anything for the people left behind. His solutions for serious problems facing the have-nots are asinine and stupid.

    I agree. But his supporters trust him in a way that they do not trust mainstream Republicans or Democrats.

    And unfortunately, Trump’s performance in West Virginia will resonate with voters outside that state. The Democrats try for nuance, balancing environmental and economic concerns. Trump makes it simple. “:You make a living from digging. I am going to revive the coal industry and get you your job back.”

    It may be a lie, but who sounds like they at least understand what worker’s problems are?

  174. 174.

    Ruemara

    @Kropadope: and therein is the problem. Confronting racism on the left means you have to shed the idea that racism is an outright hatred of all of type X. It also entails an insidious paternalism, a tendency towards perceived superiority (conscious or unconscious) & operating with stereotypical concepts towards members of type X. The most leftist people I’ve been around have exhibited some of the most ridiculous examples of stereotyped constructs regarding race (assuming I used the word “n I gg er” as a natural part of my speech; presumptions regarding level of education – I couldn’t be a college grad – double major, bitches, motherhood – no, I don’t have children; etc.). Vermont & Oregon have racial bias problems according to the people most likely to know, their minority populations. By not wanting to consider their words as having weight in this issue, you’re dismissing lived experience.

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