This is what Bernie Sanders and Jeff Weaver are allowing a pretty good run to devolve into- a disgraceful mess that will tarnish Bernie’s legacy:
Sanders, who had national campaign operatives on the floor at the Paris, has yet to comment on the near-riot his local operatives enabled as they poured gas on a fire that started with a lawsuit against the party and ignited after arguments about rules, voice votes and rejected delegates.
Despite their social media frothing and self-righteous screeds, the facts reveal that the Sanders folks disregarded rules, then when shown the truth, attacked organizers and party officials as tools of a conspiracy to defraud the senator of what was never rightfully his in the first place. Instead of acknowledging they were out-organized by a Clinton campaign chastened by county convention results and reanimated to cement the caucus numbers at the Paris, the Sanders folks have decided to cry conflagration in a crowded building, without regard to what they burn down in the process.
If what happens in Vegas happens in Philadelphia, the chances of a unified Democratic Party in the general election are virtually nonexistent and the odds of a President Trump suddenly don’t look so long.
***The slow simmer toward the boiling over that evening began as at least two national Sanders operatives – Joan Kato, the former state director who became national delegate overseer for the campaign, and attorney Matt Berg – were in the room. There would later be debates over credentials – again, this occurs at every convention –with Sanders people complaining that they were illegally denied access.
When security called for the convention to end, it descended into screaming, chair-throwing and obscenities, with many videos like this one (warning: language) posted online to show the chaos. Congressional hopeful Jesse Sbaih, a Bernie backer, was up on stage for a moment in the sun. Others, too, tried to wrest control from Lange; some Berners charged the stage, according to numerous witnesses.
It was ugly; maybe not Chicago ’68 ugly, but ugly.
—-
Despite all of this, the Sunday chalking of the walls and sidewalks and the social media nastiness still going on, some facts are ineluctable, some of them elucidated in this post from the state Democratic Party:
►Sanders lost the caucus on Feb. 20. He had no right to the most delegates, even if the Clinton campaign was asleep at the switch for the county conventions. The Sanders campaign simply did not follow through. As the Medium post reveals, the Sanders folks just did not show up; the Clinton delegates did:
Clinton only had 27 delegate positions vacant on Saturday. Sanders left 462 vacant. Clinton filled 98 percent of her available delegate slots at the State Convention, and Sanders only filled 78 percent of his available delegate slots.
End of story. They lost
►On the 64 delegates the Sanders campaign insists should have been seated, the Democratic Party post reveals only six showed up and:
The remaining potential delegates were ineligible for two main reasons: 1) They were not registered Democratic voters in Nevada by May 1, 2016, and 2) Their information — such as address, date of birth and name — could not be found or identified, and they did not respond to requests from the party and campaigns to correct it.
Rules, it appears, have no place in a revolution.
“They’re lazy, they don’t read the rules and when the rules are pointed out to them, they cry by exaggerating some Democratic talking point (everyone should participate, rules are unfair, it’s mean to do this),” said one longtime Democrat who attended what he called his “first and last convention.”
I’ll just repeat what I said this morning- Bernie voters are like college students who want their current grade changed because they didn’t read the syllabus, or because their GPA is important, or because they thought they did better, or they don’t think the rubric on an assignment is fair, or because they worked really hard and are convinced they deserve a better grade.
I’d also point out that all of this is in contrast to the 2016 Clinton campaign, which is the photo-negative of the 2008 shitshow fail parade that we all endured. The Clinton team has been on point the entire time. There haven’t been stupid misstatements, her surrogates haven’t been running around saying stupid things about Guam or that black votes don’t count, there hasn’t been anything that reminds me of 2008 from them. They’ve run an serious, sober, meticulous 50 state campaign, and this as much as anything is why they are winning. They haven’t been flawless, but compared to the Bernie Sanders butthurt amateur hour, it’s been the best campaign this century. She is a much better candidate this time around.
I am so sick and tired of the Bernie or bust crowd and their bullshit. You don’t get points for introducing new voters when you spend the entire campaign telling them their vote doesn’t count and they got screwed and the system is corrupt just because you aren’t getting your way.
You fucking assholes.
Mike J
The real reason for the shitshow? 99% of Clinton’s delegates showed up. 20% of Bernie’s stayed home.
You don’t get your participation trophy if you don’t participate.
Susan K of the Tech Support
And, to top this off (as if! it’s seriously bad enough as it is), The Twitter number 1 trending item is the Burlington College closure news. Bernie’s (and Jane’s) deafening silence so far is not good. The 3am phone call came during the day. So far, nada.
Unabogie
This, Cole. All of it. I swear to everyone reading this, I was seriously thinking of voting for Bernie because I like a lot of what he says. But his behavior, and the behavior of his campaign and supporters, has me thoroughly disgusted. From the accusations that longtime liberals like me are suddenly “neoliberal oligarchs”, to the constant whine about conspiracy theories, to the fucking disgusting hypocrisy about how evil Superdelegates are but they will be the thing that puts him over the top in contradiction to the clear will of the voters. I’m so fucking done with Bernie and the Bernfeelers.
Schlemazel Khan
Seriously, I am tired of it & the thought of having to read one more post from Boob in Portland is beyond my ability to stomach. Maybe I’ll just skip the site for a bit.
Linnaeus
Sadly, the Sanders campaign keeps showing why it’s not ready for prime time. The message is good, but the messenger isn’t the guy.
That said, I think it’s a little too early for this:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
well, there have been some stupidly phrased accurate statements (“we’re gonna put a lot of coal miners to of work”), but I mostly agree.
i’d say that happened when he took Chuck Todd’s bait about the speech transcripts from his stump speech to an ad. I hope it tarnishes his reputation
Dolly Llama
Damn, Cole. That hurt me, and I’m not anything near a Bernie person.
Iowa Old Lady
I’m disappointed that Sanders didn’t denounce this in a news conference setting. A written statement would not have been enough but we don’t even have that. Lucy Flores issued one, but not Sanders. He could have used this as an inspiring moment. Instead, crickets.
Baud
Speaking of schism.
burnspbesq
i wish i could remember what the OGs told us noobs in the wake of the 1972 election that kept us from walking away. The youts are going to need a similar pep-talk.
? Martin
Like others, willing to bet these delegates/rabble-rousers are all Paulites. They don’t believe in rules because they’re glibertarians. Rules are a denial of the free market, and the free market means squealing so loud that someone shoves a popsicle in your mouth to shut you up.
Percysowner
@Schlemazel Khan: I admit, I see his name and I just skip to the next post. It makes the site so much more fun.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
When Susan Sarandon made that comment about President Trump bringing the revolution, Sanders called her and told her to keep up the good work. Just look at all the shit Cornel West and Michael Moore have spewed about Obama over the last eight years, Bernie Sanders brought them to rallies. He’s a sanctimonious crank with a messiah complex.
burnspbesq
@Baud:
Unfortunately, I don’t think you get Steyer’s money without Steyer.
Luthe
@Schlemazel Khan: The pie filter is your friend. All I know about BiP is how much he loves baked goods.
khead
I’ve mentioned it before, but I was already at the point Cole is at now 2 months ago after being booted from Grumbine’s Poltical Moshpit on FB. The dude. Became. Unhinged. Just unhinged. Very early in the primaries. Started banning Clinton folks while spreading the vilest bullshit. Like the poster boy for Bernie Bros.
Baud
@burnspbesq: No kidding. Apparently, they hate him because he opposed Keystone.
? Martin
@Baud: I don’t see how unions in their traditional form survives the inevitable economic trend. Labor needs to be there, but it needs to somehow change. I’m not sure what it should look like, but there are multiple trends within the Democratic party that are at odds with traditional labor.
burnspbesq
@srv:
Kind folks that we are, we’ll let you pick your own: torn ACL, compound fracture of the humerus, or ruptured spleen.
Amir Khalid
Someone needs to take take Bernie aside and tell him how it is: he, not Hillary, is the weaker candidate in this primary race. That’s how come failures like this happen to his campaign and not Hillary’s. That’s why he’s millions of votes and hundreds of delegates behind her. The practical objective now is to keep Donald Trump out of the White House, lest Trump blow up the planet. If Bernie shares that objective, now is a good time to swallow his pride and start thinking about conceding.
Baud
@? Martin: Yep. The idea of unions is liberal, but too many union members are conservative.
Mike J
@? Martin:
Always have been. At least since the night we drove old Dixiecrats down. And all the bells were ringing.
Linnaeus
@Baud:
As institutions, they’ve been more progressive than not. That’s why the right is so eager to destroy them.
Amaranthine RBG
Why should anyone give a shit about whether or not someone is “tired” of Bernie Sanders.
He’s fighting to win the nomination.
If Clomtom can’t handle some geriatric socialist, she gonna have some real – troubles against Trump..
Mike in NC
Revolutionary BernieBros are revolting.
burnspbesq
@Amir Khalid:
What time is the game where you are, 4:00a.m. Thursday?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
If you don’t care what Cole thinks, why are you reading his blog, Steve?
WarMunchkin
Yeah, I think this is simply a mild preview of Philadelphia. When you’ve preached for months that you need a revolution to overthrow a corrupt establishment, and you continuously provide false example after false example of that corruption, you connect the dots over and over and over and over and over again that you’re fighting against an actual autocratic organization. I’ve already seen people on /r/s4p call for second amendment remedies.
And the Bernie train is hell bent on ratcheting up the rhetoric hard as it can, because after months of it, Bernie has succeeded in indoctrinating himself. At the end of Obama’s campaign in 2008, I remember him saying something like “I’m beginning to actually believe in the new kind of politics”, thinking Republicans would treat him well because of it.
I want the far-left that believed in “make love not war”, not the one that’s just full of assholes.
JPL
@Amir Khalid: I don’t see that happening. Although, his ego is not as big as Trump, it’s close. The one thing about Bernie, is he never released his taxes. Like the Donald, I think there is something he wants to keep hidden. It may be his support for the NRA, or it may be more. The only thing he has done to promote his Socialist cause, is to promote words.. Words don’t amount to bills.
AkaDad
I was gonna vote for Bernie, but for the past 30 years he’s been caucusing with those corrupt Democratic whores.
burnspbesq
@Amaranthine RBG:
Are you one of the handful of people who have failed to grasp that that fight ended several weeks ago?
She did, by a comfortable margin.
Amir Khalid
@burnspbesq:
The Europa League final? Yeah, about then. If Liverpool win, it’ll be their first European trophy since the Miracle of Istanbul and a place in the 2016-7 Champions League.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
This is off the topic, but I’m just going to have to link here to the dude running in my district who put a screen shot up on his campaign Facebook page and forgot to shut his porno tabs. You should also check out the page itself. There are already thousands of people chiming in on what a tool this guy is.
khead
@? Martin:
I have what I call my $hit theory of labor. There are three groups of folks that should unite because we would be in a world of $hit without them.
Truckers – They haul and deliver all your $hit.
Nurses – They take care of you and clean up your $hit.
Teachers – They teach and take care of your little $hit.
The last group is a bit of a problem since they are public employees, but I am pretty sure the country would be in a world of $hit if those groups just decided to stay home for a while.
PsiFighter37
I made the mistake of engaging with a Berner yesterday. Holy crap, these people were fucking deluded out of their mind. No matter what I pointed out, they were convinced Hillary is a Republican operative running as a conservative Republican in the Democratic primary. It must’ve been like engaging Naderites in 2000, only a lot worse – because they should know better by now.
They were also all old white people (men and women), which makes me believe that the worst BernieBros are the assholes who will be in the ground long before I am and are a-okay with burning shit down because they don’t get their way – because hey, they’re all privileged mofos who won’t have to endure any long-lasting consequences of a President Trump.
burnspbesq
@AkaDad:
Not only that, he’s (gasp!) a SUPERDELEGATE!
PsiFighter37
@Baud: I hope Trumka tells them to not look a gift horse in the mouth and to take a hike. Seriously – I’m not a huge fan of Steyer’s, but I would not turn down his money. I also think these particular union heads are being very short-sighted…construction jobs in renewables is where the next big manufacturing/construction revolution is going to be in the decades to come.
Prescott Cactus
In the land of few and far between
And everybody wears a frown
Someone lost their squirting rose
There’s his red nose on the ground
No one’s seen his painted smile
He’s been gone for quite a while
Something bad happened to a clown
Warren Zevon
rachel
OMG, I knew the Berniebro complaints sounded familiar.
Adam L Silverman
@WarMunchkin: Anyone calling for 2nd Amendment remedies and claiming to be a Sanders supporter has just outed themselves as one of the Paul (pere et fil) supporters that have migrated over to Senator Sanders.
Amir Khalid
@PsiFighter37:
I watched a Young Turks clip on YouTube a few hours ago. It was about Judge Merrick Garland. I swear this Cenk Uygur dude thinks exactly the same of Obama.
Chyron HR
@Amaranthine RBG:
It’s weird how Sanders goes from being the greatest human being who ever lived to “some geriatric socialist” whenever it’s rhetorically convenient for his fans.
Bostondreams
@burnspbesq:
One must also wonder, if Sanders can’t beat such an ‘obviously bad’ candidate as Clinton, who has held her fire again and again, what will he do against an unleashed Trump and the Republican machine?
Smiling Mortician
Just got home from work and haven’t read any comments yet, but preach it, John Cole!
OK. Now I’ll read the comments.
PsiFighter37
@WarMunchkin: Make love, not war, unless it’s against the CORRUPT DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT!
And send me $27 while you’re at it! Burlington College just went under, so Jane can’t get any more money out of them!
/snark
Linnaeus
@PsiFighter37:
Part of it is because of the nature of the work – building trades work isn’t always consistently available and it’s extremely sensitive to economic downturns.
JWR
One thing that really bugs me about Sanders is that he’s constantly going on about these practically meaningless polls showing him beating Donald Trump by a bigger margin than would HRC in the GE. Trump, very early in the debates, was the only Republican, (as far as I know, I don’t have cable TV), to more than once conflate Sanders’ Socialism with Communism, and I have to wonder if the R’s got together and agreed to stay mum, just on this one point, because they knew it would be fatal to a Sanders run in the GE.
Luthe
@khead: You forgot retail and food service employees.
Retail: They put up with your shit while selling you shit.
Food service: They put up with your shit while serving you shit.
Adam L Silverman
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): His responses trying to explain it (and I use explain it someone loosely here) are classic:
http://gawker.com/close-your-porn-tabs-before-posting-screenshots-to-your-1776955238
dr. bloor
@burnspbesq: It wasn’t what was said, it was what happened. Which was Richard Nixon and some no-name hotel in DC.
Let’s hope this generation’s object lesson isn’t a Trump administration.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Amir Khalid:
Cenk, like Cole, is a Republican convert. The difference is that Cole didn’t become a zealot.
Applejinx
@burnspbesq: Confirmed. This is John’s blog and I’m inclined to let him rant all he wants but for the rest of you: it’s over, for God’s sake, please don’t make this even more impossible.
I’ve just learned that the biggest bernie-or-buster on my Facebook wall is broke and desperate and has just had his unemployment run out and has nowhere to turn. It puts it into somewhat of a different light, but it’s not surprising since virtually everybody I know is up against the wall in one way or another.
Bernie’s run is over. He is now stuck realizing that, figuring out how to still represent the incredible pain he unearthed via his run, AND he’s got to keep Bros from brandishing chairs (I would like to see video of even one chair literally flying through the air before I use the formulation ‘throwing chairs’, brandishing is quite bad enough) or rioting.
I don’t envy his position, and I’m not going to help him run for President any more. (that said, he’s still our guy up here in Vermont and nobody is taking him from us: he still has a chance to redeem himself for the shitty behavior of desperate left wing radicals he’s egged on)
Al Giordiano can go fuck himself. Vengeance-based primary challenge threats are REALLY BAD optics right now and if Hillary has any sense she’ll shut that shit down very quickly, it’s waving red flags. I expect her to be better at politics than Al fucking Giordiano (and Bernie Sanders).
? Martin
@khead: Truckers are about to be automated out of existence – at least to a decent degree. Coal miners. Most manufacturing workers. Remember the Democratic–Farmer–Labor alliance? There are basically no farmers left. They’re gone.
Just to be clear, I’m not anti-labor, but their prescriptions are out of alignment with Democratic prescriptions and out of alignment with trends (fourth industrial revolution, etc.) that Democrats have no interest in opposing. I know that they were always out of alignment to some degree, but to my eye unions are still too backward looking.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
LOL
msdc
Well… best minus one.
But they’ve learned from the best, and that’s encouraging.
Baud
@Applejinx:
Hillary is God, but she is a vengeful God.
Smiling Mortician
@Dolly Llama: Cole’s analogy is dead on, though. In fact, several of the bernfeelers on my FB feed are students who also fall into one of Cole’s categories of students who just. can’t. even. with their grades. It doesn’t actually make them bad people. But man are they naive about how shit gets done.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: The devil is in the details!
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah. I saw his explanation [sic]. And, to be truthful, I didn’t read all 90,000 words of it. But what I did read, and what Gawker put up, don’t shed a whole lot of light on it. I don’t know. Maybe you have to be a fundamentalist Christian conservative wingnut to understand that kind of subtlety…
Patricia Kayden
Dying for the end of the primaries. Can’t end soon enough.
Gvg
College kids aren’t really that bad, typically. Just one now and then makes too good a story and everyone repeats it. I know when I am teaching a new hire and give memorable examples because they are funny, I have noticed some of them happened more than a decade ago….at a university with nearly 50,000 students one astonishing fool every few years is not statistically significant, but they do make a better story.
The kids aren’t usually that silly. They got this concept in Grade school. Which means the rude Sanders supporters have no excuse.
Adam L Silverman
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): It was pure stream of consciousness performance art writing.
starscream
Does anyone really deny that a bunch of these assclowns are going to be protesting the actual convention? Even if there are like 5 of them, the media will have a fucking field day.
mdblanche
So John, why don’t you tell us what you really think?
dr. bloor
@Applejinx:
At this point, I’d be surprised if Bernie’s campaign got more than a few seconds of attention during the upper echelon daily briefings in HRC’s campaign. She has more important things to do than to waste time and resources on something so trivial and pointless.
AkaDad
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Are you sure those are porn sites? I’m going to do some vigorous research before the inevitable premature speculation.
Baud
@starscream: Nope. That’s been my prediction. A small but loud contingent that will be featured prominently in the media.
Prescott Cactus
@Patricia Kayden: 3 months ago who would have thought it was the Dem’s who wanted the primaries to cease and desist.
dmsilev
Fuck, now I have flashbacks to my days as a TA, trying to teach basic science to a bunch of pre-meds. Fastest way to ruin one’s faith in medicine is to teach pre-meds and realize that they will be the next generation of doctors.
Amir Khalid
Das verstehe ich nicht. From what I understand, Hillary is not the boss of Al Giordano, who doesn’t work for her campaign and is not even that much of a supporter.
Baud
@dr. bloor: She’s fundraising off of him. She sent an email out saying that Bernie was going to compete in California.
Uncle Ebeneezer
Also, too…anyone else notice that:
Black voters threaten to withhold their Primary votes unless Sanders addresses their issues, and the response is “How dare they?” and accusations of hijacking the party and playing identity/Me-First politics.
And…
Bernie voters (mostly White) threaten to withhold their General votes unless Clinton addresses their issues
Applause, hooray for Bernie! This is how Democracy i supposed to work!
It’s like there is one standard for one set of issues and another for another set of issues. Or more accurately, for one group of people vs. other group of people.
Baud
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
When did that happen?
Rick
Heard Hillary’s Super PAC is beginning a massive ad buy in Virginia and Florida. They’re going to do to Trump what they did to Dole in ’96 and Trump is playing right into their hands.
Trump needs to get off his ass and get some corporate cash before it’s too late. Where the hell are our Super PACs? Where’s Adleson? Where’s Koch?
This is why you don’t nominate an amateur.
dmsilev
@starscream: There were only a few PUMAs left by the time the convention rolled around in 2008. They got some media attention, but not a huge amount (mostly from The Daily Show, if memory serves).
The key is Sanders himself. Does he do what Clinton did in 2008 and endorse the winner of the primary soon after the end of the voting (reminder: that’s actually June 14th), or does he really dig down into the “the super delegates will give me the nomination” and have his campaign end uglier than strictly necessary. I hope for the former.
dmsilev
@Rick: Weren’t you telling us just a day or so ago that Trump was going to OWN Hillary on Twitter and that would be enough? So sad to see you’ve lost faith so quickly.
Linnaeus
@? Martin:
It depends, I suppose, on which prescriptions we’re talking about. I can certainly understand that there will be differences within the Democratic coalition with respect to specific policies in any number of areas. I would hope, though, that certain bedrock values (such as commitment to workplace rights, collective bargaining, compensating for the power of employers, etc.) remain bedrock values, because we still need them no matter what kinds of industries comprise our economy.
Baud
@dmsilev: Yeah, one good speech from Sanders makes washes all of this away. But I’m not certain he’ll do it.
Prescott Cactus
deleted
? Martin
@Baud:
I don’t even think it’s that. But what unions want simply aren’t going to happen, and are BAD in the context of other Dem priorities. So much of what needs to happen on climate change simply wrecks a huge swath of labor. It may open up all new labor opportunities, but unions are territorial – they’re not content if we open up a new nursing job for every lost trucking job, or a new unionized solar job for every lost coal job.
Adam L Silverman
@Rick: The Koch’s are pulling out of national politics. They are going to continue to focus at state and local level where they get much more bang for their buck (these guys and gals are cheaper to buy, lease, and/or rent) and refocus on their think tank and research institute funding.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435418/koch-brothers-campaign-activity-slows
h/t to Digby:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2016/05/kochs-out.html
batgirl
All the #bernieorbust people I know are middle-age, upper middle-class white people who have the least to lose under a Trump (or any Republican) presidency. Their whiteness and money insulate them from the GOP destruction as they call for the “revolution.” Irony, indeed.
? Martin
@Prescott Cactus:
Those are all good. But protection of jobs in specific industries is a bigger problem. WV is going for Trump not because coal miners don’t want those things, they’re going for Trump because they want us to burn more coal.
Aimai
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: if you read the entire comment it wasnt even stupidly phrased. It was an entirely respectable statement of empathy and plsn of action for coal miners.
amk
@Applejinx:
If bs is so tight with VT voters, then why a al fucking giordano scare you two years out?
mdblanche
They say that so often! I wonder what their basis for comparison is.
MazeDancer
Hillary’s big SuperPac is starting their anti-Trump ads on Wednesday in the big battle ground states. Their chief strategist was just on with Rachel Maddow. He seems quite smart.
Rachel played two of the ads. One was great work. Fresh, inventive. And sledge-hammers Trump’s sexism across the TV screen. Here is a link to the SuperPac’s tweet of it if you’d like to see.
BillinGlendaleCA
@? Martin: Remember the Democrats didn’t leave labor, labor left the Democrats in the early 70’s. Labor needed to welcome new workers into the market in the early 70’s(Boomers and non-whites), they resisted and lost that battle and endorsed Republicans. They really need to look back at that history and refocus.
FEMA Camp Counselor
@Amir Khalid: Yep. Al pretty much is just doing his own thing right now, which roughly translates into trolling Sanders into putting a lid on his supporters before the convention.
Gin & Tonic
@PsiFighter37: Well, she’s still getting money out of shipping Vermont’s nuclear waste to south Texas.
Baud
@MazeDancer: Damn.
nutella
OK, that’s interesting. The people hand-waving that this was just an obscure group in a nowhere state that had nothing to do with the national campaign are totally wrong.
Ramping Up
@dmsilev:
I thought they’d be equal in Super PAC funding. Trump can’t afford this kind of carpet bombing campaign early. Primaries vs. General. She’s using the Anti-Dole ’96 Playbook.
WHERE…IS…ADLESON?
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@AkaDad: I saw what you did there. Well played, sir!
Cacti
Smart move by the Bernfeelers, trying to shout down Barbara Boxer and calling her a bitch with the CA primary ahead in a few weeks.
Linnaeus
@BillinGlendaleCA:
This is vastly overstated. Even in the 1960s and 1970s, unions on the whole consistently supported Democrats. The fractures that happened within the labor movement mirrored those happening in American society as a whole. Labor – not without some struggle, mind you – did end up welcoming new workers into the labor movement, a trend which has continued to the present day.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT:
so…. ignorance is a virtue? the party of Lincoln, ladies and gentlemen!
dmsilev
@Ramping Up: Welcome to the big leagues kid.
Prescott Cactus
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Union’s Country Club era. We have ours as members and you can…
Not a pretty time.
Then Reagan kicked us in the balls.
kdaug
@Gin & Tonic: <
Little (completely unconfirmed) rumor is that some folks are building a motion-salt reactor down there.
If so, they’ll be taking radioactive waste for disposal from anywhere. At a price, of course.
Frankensteinbeck
@? Martin:
Having lived for years in Eastern Kentucky, I can guarantee you those coal miners are voting for Trump because they hate liberals and the federal government, and it fills them with bile that a black man won the presidency twice. Coal issues are only the icing on that cake.
Applejinx
@amk: For the same reason people didn’t like Sanders supporters wanting to have the Clinton people go home, and then pull procedural crap in Nevada to get their way.
I see a lot of people, especially right around this blog, really light up at the prospect, and it’s not your business once Sanders is sent home to Vermont. Consider it a vote of no confidence in you people. Consider it a big ‘you are exactly what we think you are’. Half the time you all are saying shit that’s just as bullshit as any wingnut Clinton smear, but it’s okay if it’s against Bernie.
That’s politics. Where it goes from here is very much up to you. I find it very easy to believe the Clinton supporters are scheming, vindictive fuckers who will wreck everything just to illustrate how hard Bernie lost, and who will throw away a perfectly good landslide victory and possibly even turn it into a loss by an orgy of frenzied hippiepunching and political vengeance scorching the Democratic earth. We ain’t got nothin’ on Clinton people for remembering enemies.
I switched sides and started trying to soften up various Berniacs I know, in SPITE of believing this. And now we’ll see whether I was right or wrong (for Hillary, and for the many supporters who might not be that under her control but damned well would listen if she told ’em her expectations)
Prove me wrong. I’m seeing you guys as ‘you people’ again, which isn’t a good sign. I’m also seeing the Burlington College thing welded to the top of the Twitter trending hashtags, above much higher tweet numbers—but then we know Twitter CEO Omid Kordestani has headlined a fundraiser for Clinton, and Clinton likes to be ‘muscular’ with social media.
And that’s politics too. And will be useful against Trump, no question about that.
Everything is corrupt, especially digital liberal billionaires. Please allow the corrupt people to do their work without adding your own end zone taunts because this doesn’t need to be uglier than it is. Or: for fuck’s sake, don’t make me side with my crazy Facebook people. I WANT to believe things are going to be okay, but the definition of okay is giving me fucking nightmares these days :P
Cacti
@Linnaeus:
Au contraire. I’d say that you’re understating how much of hand union members had in their own demise.
In 1976, 62% of union households voted for Carter vs. 38% for Ford. By 1980, only 48% supported Carter, 45% voted for Reagan, and the remainder voted for John Anderson. Four years later, 45% of union households again voted for Reagan, and in 1988, 41% voted for Poppy Bush.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amaranthine RBG: He.Can’t.Win. Deal with it.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Cacti:
Didn’t you know, Boxer (and DiFi) is part of the establishment so her opinion doesn’t matter to the DudeBros such as myself ;)
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s not about Sanders winning ag this point. It’s about pushing Clinton to the left, especially on Trade and 15$ min wage.
Ramping Up
@Adam L Silverman:
Kochs need to realize that a Clintonite SCOTUS would strike down almost all policies they wish to implement at the state level.
amk
@Applejinx:
Other than your usual righteous tldr rant, you still haven’t answered a simple question.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Applejinx:
This.
That’s politics. Where it goes from here is very much up to you. I find it very easy to believe the Clinton supporters are scheming, vindictive fuckers who will wreck everything just to illustrate how hard Bernie lost, and who will throw away a perfectly good landslide victory and possibly even turn it into a loss by an orgy of frenzied hippiepunching and political vengeance scorching the Democratic earth. We ain’t got nothin’ on Clinton people for remembering enemies.
I’m feeling the same way about seeing this blog as “you people.” I’ve decided to give up my life as a lurker and embrace the Bern :)
Ugh, WTF BJ!
JPL
@amk: this..
Prescott Cactus
@? Martin: Labors roll is to protect it’s own. While doing so the idea is that we will raise the water level and all boats will float higher.
You can’t (or you can) blame a guy who has a pipe fitters card in his pocket for wanting Keystone Pipeline.
Are they perfect. No ! Will they survive ? I thinks so. Thrive ? I’m not sure.
CarolDuhart2
And if Sanders was all that popular, there would be no anxiety about Al Giordano’s threat to run whatsoever. I bet it’s because:
1. Sanders is 74. He may after the Burlington College debacle and a grueling losing Presidential race, be more vulnerable than some would like to say out loud.
2)The reason why Democrats have laid off him is the quiet agreement to let him caucus with them. Bernie’s behavior and the behavior of his surrogates have doubtless burned those bridges now. What’s more, What’s more, Bernie has probably been able to hold off challenges because opponents have lacked the funding to actually challenge him from the left. The internet changes that equation, along with the distaste many Dems now feel for the man.
And with funding, a serious Democratic challenger can emerge now with gloves off.
Applejinx
@amk: Because I think Clinton vengeance is a real and dangerous thing, because I have great faith in the political power of the Clinton machine and the vindictiveness of the people involved, and because Bernie is MY senator and brought a great deal of progressive politics into the conversation when the MSM would not have otherwise tolerated a bit of it.
You’re fucking right I’m scared that Clinton people will get behind a massive campaign to take MY senator away. Yes I’m scared.
I have NEVER said Clinton was powerless. That is not my concern.
FlyingToaster
@kdaug: If that’s the Seaborg molten-salt waste reactor, count me in.
But I don’t think the Danes have deployed theirs yet. So I think it will be a while before we see one stateside.
Adam L Silverman
@Ramping Up: I’m pretty sure they’re aware. I’m reckoning that their state and local level spending will include Senate and House seats up for reelection.
JPL
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: What has the bern done for you lately, except for words. Would Hillary appeal more to his followers if she wanted a minimum wage of twenty dollars a hour?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
I posted this a hour ago on the earlier open thread, because 500!
Jonathan Holland Becnel says:
May 16, 2016 at 9:53 pm
@Schlemazel Khan: The Hillary Victory Fund donated only ~2 mill $ to state democratic parties. How much did she raise? 60 fuckin million $! Bernie sent out a fundraising email to 3 candidates he’s supporting, like Zephyr Teachout of New York, and raised almost as much money. State democratic spokesman have already come out and said they feel used by the Hillary Victory fund people. This used to be common knowledge on this blog but because it’s for Coles chosen candidate, and Anne Laurie, and Betty Cracker, it gets swept under the rug.
FWIW I think Cole should keep posting anti-Bernie posts! It def provided the catalyst for me to Pop my posting cherry. I’ve read this entire comment thread and along with myself, I believe there was at least one other new poster, “Run, Lillian.” This is good stuff! There’s obviously a divide within the BJ community between the Bobs in Portland on one side and the Coles on the other.
So much for 500 comments: ALMOST MADE IT!
Some things I’d like to point out. DWS is pro- Clinton, that’s why she still has a Job. If she got canned, it would open up a whole shit can of worms the DNC DOES NOT WANT in a primary/general election campaign.
That “Purity Puddle” just energized the activist wing of the party the likes of which hasn’t been seen since Obamas Organizing for America threw them under the bus circa 2010. See HIPPIE PUNCHING
Bernie sucks on drones. Fuck drones and fuck war and death. But this pales in connection with the Hawkishness of Clinton. She’s a neoliberal war hawk: Libya, Iraq, Afghan, Honduras, Syria…
Bernie hasn’t released his Tax Returns. I think he should. Idk what he’s waiting for. Bernie supporters wont bust his balls too much unless he has offshore accounts in Panama. Clinton…what can I say? She was on the board of WalMart. I fucking hate WalMart. I’ve buycotted them for a long time now. She’s got so many questionable donations to the Clinton Global Iniative while she was in the state department it’s not even funny. Bernie raises Tens of millions from millions of small donors. Hillary gets maxed out at the Clooney Fundraisers from a few thousand millionaires and billionaires.
War Hawk – Check
Pro- Corporations- Check
Oh let’s not forget “super predators” and “welfare reform” and the repeal of glass-st regulations in the 90s with her husband.
A few of yall bitch and moan about the younger folk bitching and moaning. Do you know what Clinton was about in the 60s? While Sanders was marching in the Civil Rights protest, Clinton was throwing down with that FUCKING ASSHAT MOTHERFUCKING FUCKFACE Barry Goldwater.
GEAUX CAVS!
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Then they are tactically inept.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: @Applejinx: what the fuck are you two featherheads blabbering about?
Walker
Burlington College is officially closing, courtesy of Jane Sanders’ mismanagement.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Women in general seem to be a problem for the BernieBros:
Hillary Clinton
Cecile Richards
Barbara Boxer
Dolores Huerta
Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Elizabeth Warren
All have been showered with invective for failure to give due deference to Bernie’s withered, 74-year old penis.
amk
@Applejinx:
I will do it for you. BERNIE CANNOT BE/SHOULD NOT BE PRIMARIED. Ironic if you care to think about it.
FlyingToaster
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Pro-ject much?
Bored now.
{Note: Hilz ain’t Bill. She’s hired a fuckton of ex-Obama people to run the nuts-n-bolts of her 2016 run. Who will tell her (as if she doesn’t know already) that on June 15, it had better be all sweetness-n-light on our end and a laser focus on Trumpenstein. Since she actually wants the job.}
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: I’m pretty sure you just said that Hillary Clinton needs to shut down Al Giordano but that Bernie Sanders just can’t shut down anybody, they’re all motivated and independent. Is that about right?
ronin122
Well I guess this is goodbye then. I’ve been a lurker here for about 10 years, voted for Sanders back in March (of course I’m a fact believer and saw this as impossible since NY) but hey let’s just throw us all under the bus. This whole primary has sucked and frankly I find myself avoiding this blog more and more. Oh well, all good things come to an end. Instead of saying how I really feel, I’ll just say ciao and wish you all the best.
JPL
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: What has the Bern accomplished? I just don’t remember him out there fighting for health care for children.
Cacti
In moderation hell for using the anatomically correct term for the male sex organ.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@JPL:
Well technically if wages had kept up with inflation the minimum wage should be 21$ / hour. But Ya know CEOs create jobs and tax cuts.
And HELL FUCKING YES that would appeal to us. Lol I know ur trolling me but in all seriousness if Clinton could make herself appear less pro-corporation and more pro-worker class, it would help.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Cacti: PENIS
geg6
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Okay, you made your word count tonight. Now go away, stupid troll.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@ronin122: you got room in your car for a couple more?
Ramping Up
@Adam L Silverman:
Clinton wins this election and SCOTUS is communist for a generation.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: what’s a featherhead?
Cacti
@amk:
If Bernie decides to be Nader 2.0, Howard Dean should be the 2018 Democratic candidate for US Senate from Vermont, with the full financial backing of the national party.
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx: You know what? I doubted your acceptance of HRC because it always came with more than a smidgen of “she’s without principles and will do or say whatever.” Great, now you have your excuse.
Adam L Silverman
@Applejinx: She’s not stupid. My guess is that should everything break her way, that Devine and Weaver are done working for Democratic candidates. She knows she might have a slim, at best, majority in the Senate from 2016 through the end of 2019. She’s going to need Senator Sanders right where he is now, in the Senate and caucusing with the Democrats, in the tent and on the team. Given that even if she gets elected and gets a Democrat slim majority or even 50-50 Senate for two years, she may lose it again in 2018. So there too she needs to keep all those in their seats in them. Senator Sanders will be placated. I would be very surprised, however, if his senior advisors aren’t toast (persona non grata) after this.
OT: when you thought you were banned, but weren’t, did you get my email? I’m glad your back regardless, especially as you weren’t banned, but I want to make sure you did receive the attempt to reach out to you and let you know 1) you weren’t banned and 2) we were trying to figure out what was going on.
JPL
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Just tell me one thing that Sanders has done. We know that Hillary has fought for children and females. Bill might get credit for the Chips program, but her signature was all over it.
Just tell me one thing he fought for….
I’m a socialist, so believe me, doesn’t count.
WaterGirl
@AkaDad: @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I was about to say “I saw what you did there”, but I was smart enough to search for replies to your comment first, AkaDad.
Kudos to both of you.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@ronin122:
No don’t go! You’re giving up the good fight! I’ve been lurking too. I’m trying to show the others out there, lurking like us, to not leave the blog and voice their opinion to the majority here at BJ.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: Get a grip. Do you really think there’s some shortage of competent liberals in Vermont? Bernie Sanders adds no value. He’s the most replaceable, least special liberal there is.
Tracy Ratcliff
@Adam L Silverman: In that National Review article, it claims the Kochs are only putting in a token effort in Wisconsin, and that the Kochs have concluded that WI and NV will have Democratic Senators after November.
Gin & Tonic
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Didn’t you say you were 31?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Pushing Clinton to the left by booing liberal Democratic Senators! Fighting for $15 by wielding chairs!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@srv:
Eh, maybe so, but earlier Cole said he’s further to the left than Clinton on a number of issues.
Ruckus
@? Martin:
They want us to burn more coal because that’s all they have and all they know as a large industry. Most anyone whose family has been working in the coal industry for longer than a generation knows what black lung is and how they get it. They know what strip mining for coal does to the land, but they are, no pun intended, between a rock and a hard place.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Gin & Tonic:
Ah, to be alive in 68! Now that would’ve been a sight to see!
Yes, I’m 31. I’m confused as to what ur trying to point out?
JPL
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Then convince me.. What law has he introduced that would help with income equality? Why did he vote against the Brady bill? He did make a statement, that concerned me. As we know Hillary is ahead by millions of votes, but he seemed to suggest, some of those votes don’t count. Explain to me why.
Adam L Silverman
@Tracy Ratcliff: Yes it does. I have no way of knowing whether 1) NR got that right as I don’t really know if their attempts to do actual reporting are better than their opinion and thought pieces and 2) this is a correct or incorrect assumption on the Kochs’ part. I don’t follow politics in either of those places as I don’t live there.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
What the hell is the winkyface, dude? Bernfeelers booed the sane California senator and we’re supposed to be okay with that because, what, all Democrats are corrupt?
FlipYrWhig
@batgirl: All the Bernie or bust people I know are just slightly too young to have been hippies. The Sanders campaign represents their last chance to have the hippie-like experience they missed in their youth.
Applejinx
@JPL: Listen to me. Bern is done. It’s over. Stop it. He is not going to be President.
I consider that the Burlington College thing and the shitshow in Nevada are fatal. Money coming in will have stopped. You cannot make errors going against the Clintons. I just checked again, Burlington College is STILL welded to the top of ‘trending tweets’. I think it’s been made ‘sticky’ because somebody wanted it that way: we have no control over what Twitter decides to do internally, and this time it’s not even banning a user, this time it’s totally legit. There is no law saying Omid Kordestani or somebody like him can’t stick damaging Jane Sanders information at the top of a trending list in boldface, if they so choose. We, bernfeelers, are DONE. This is like an Eagleton thing: no coming back from a legit opportunity to make everything about Burlington College for the next month.
I don’t know about ‘we’ but what I am saying is this: now it’s time to find out if Hillary wants the left wing, that very large but not majority demographic that tried to get Bernie nominated. We have to watch and see whether the PLATFORM we fought so hard for, gets taken over by Clinton and done in her name with Hillary getting literally all the credit (I even see people claiming Bernie had no effect on how she ran, whatsoever)…
Or if it’s license to shit all over that stuff and tack right on the grounds of bros are assholes, and those commies are the real superpredators needing to be brought to heel.
It’s really up to Hillary, but I figure most of her fiercest supporters are in ‘bring them to heel’ mode, and nobody wants to be stamped on by jackboots. They could make my crazy bern-or-bust friends be right in retrospect. They could justify all the paranoia and fuck us all over hardcore just because they can, in vengeance and outrage… or not.
I have to start listening to my crazy friends a little bit more, just so I can see what’s going down and as always try to make some sense of it all. It doesn’t offend me if I have to nod and smile and go ‘why yes, Hillary thought up all this first and was the only real choice to implement our liberal future’. I just don’t want to see all the dire warnings of my crazy friends justified.
Ruckus
@Cacti:
They are nothing if not smart planners. They planned to register, but forgot about that calendar thingie, They planned to win but didn’t know the rules of the race. They planned………..
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@JPL:
Let’s see, Sanders voted against the Iraq War, the Patriot act. He’s introduced legislation to break up the big banks and jail corrupt banksters. He was pro gay before Clinton.
Now I will say that his support for those awful F35s was boneheaded. But then again his foreign policy is lacking.
Tripod
Running Burlington College into the ground.
That’s the kind of politically visible shit that brings on the investigative journalism, pissed off whistle-blowing ex-employees, and indictments.
Maybe Jane kept the household finances at arms distance and packed tight, but the wha?? tax return shtick isn’t confidence inducing.
JPL
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Cannes film festival has a movie called Loving. I was in high school when Loving vs Virginia was heard before the Supreme Court. Not everything that happened during that time was bad.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Congratulations, you have successfully memorized all your Bernie Bro Gotchas! As a reward,you win a round-trip vacation to Burlington, Vermont, the Wonder Bread capital of New England. There you can hobnob will all the other upper class white radicals who championed civil rights then white flighted it out of inner city Brooklyn at first chance. We’ll even provide you with your very own black friend, who also thinks that unarmed black kids won’t be shot by cops if only we gave them a job with a decent minimum wage!
FlipYrWhig
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Uh, so, when Hillary Clinton was in college she gave, by invitation, an alt-commencement address that called out the establishment of her own freakin’ college. You know nothing about her and what she’s done. You have a thimblefull of buzzwords and a shitload of utter ignorance.
Linnaeus
@Cacti:
I’m not understating it at all. The claim to which I was responding was to the effect that labor “went over to the Republicans” when the very figures you cite show a more complicated picture than that. Even at Reagan’s high point, the Democratic presidential candidate was still getting a majority of union household votes (and certainly union endorsements and union GOTV efforts). The Democratic share of union household votes rebounded after that and even today, it still makes an important difference in Democratic electoral chances.
We should also take into account down-ballot races too, since split-ticket voting was more common in the past than it is now – union households voting for Reagan in 1980s could also be voting for Democrats in state legislative races and US House & Senate races.
I’m not denying that there were some significant fissures within organized labor in the 1970s. What I am pushing back against is, IMHO, an oversimplified narrative that sometimes gets pushed in even ostensibly liberal places, wherein labor unions and union members are cast as uniquely conservative (when they weren’t) and that downplays other influences within the Democratic Party.
Mnemosyne
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
It’s the usual convert thing: Bernie’s been a Democrat for less than a year, but he’s totally a better Democrat than Hillary has been for the past forty years! People outside the Democratic Party understand it better than people who’ve been working to get Democrats elected for decades!
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@srv:
And why would anyone speak up for the Klaus Barbies and Amon Goeths like you?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@JPL:
It’s not so much as what he’s gotten passed as all the truly awful legislation that he was against.
But, to answer ur question 15$ a hour would go along way to helping with Income inequality. The same goes for Single Payer and universal college.
For those of you unfamiliar with Bernies stances on Income inequality, here are some.
AS PRESIDENT, SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS WILL REDUCE INCOME AND WEALTH INEQUALITY BY:
Demanding that the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes. As president, Sen. Sanders will stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. He will create a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million. He will also enact a tax on Wall Street speculators who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.
Increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour by 2020. In the year 2015, no one who works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.
Putting at least 13 million Americans to work by investing $1 trillion over five years towards rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.
Reversing trade policies like NAFTA, CAFTA, and PNTR with China that have driven down wages and caused the loss of millions of jobs. If corporate America wants us to buy their products they need to manufacture those products in this country, not in China or other low-wage countries.
Creating 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans by investing $5.5 billion in a youth jobs program. Today, the youth unemployment rate is off the charts. We have got to end this tragedy by making sure teenagers and young adults have the jobs they need to move up the economic ladder.
Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.
Making tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout America. Everyone in this country who studies hard should be able to go to college regardless of income.
Expanding Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. At a time when the senior poverty rate is going up, we have got to make sure that every American can retire with dignity and respect.
Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.
Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.
Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-3. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program.
Making it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. One of the most significant reasons for the 40-year decline in the middle class is that the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits have been severely undermined.
Breaking up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Seven years ago, the taxpayers of this country bailed out Wall Street because they were too big to fail. Yet, 3 out of the 4 largest financial institutions are 80 percent bigger today than before we bailed them out. Sen. Sanders has introduced legislation to break these banks up. As president, he will fight to sign this legislation into law.I
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Bernie has lost the primary.
He is an ex-parrot.
Now what?
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: Whig, that is the same thing as saying that Hillary is a lot more powerful than Bernie.
Hillary is a LOT more powerful than Bernie. In ways you might not even imagine. Her friends and supporters are a lot more rich and powerful than Bernie and his supporters. That’s just how it is.
Yes, Bernie can’t control his people. That’s why I don’t want him to be President (but I want him to continue to be MY senator, whom _I_ get to vote for, not some vengeance-minded ratfuckers in entirely other states wanting to send a message)
Yes, Hillary can control her people. That’s why she is winning, that’s why she would/will be more capable of pushing through progressive legislation we desperately need.
Are we on the same page, Whig? Are you following me, or just looking for more shit to fling?
Then, get this: I am very worried that these recent fuckups by Bernie will be taken as license to dump, not him (that’s a given), not his closest advisors (that’s fair: pay a price for getting too stroppy) but the overall platform, which might need better wonkier implementation but which is desperately needed all the same.
Right?
_I_ never threw a chair at anybody, and I put up with a lot around here, with reasonably good grace. Hear me out.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: You and your friends are not “the left wing.” You’re a bunch of testy, touchy, uninformed, grating, not very bright, self-congratulatory whiners, like your candidate.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
i think the Democratic Party has a huge tolerance for lobbyist cash and pay to play schemes to enrich aforementioned lobbyists. And yes, Boxer has engendered the ill will of activists for this very reason.
scav
It’s rather amusing that the lurkers are suddenly the ones congratulating themselves about fighting the good fight at BJ over Bernie Sanders, in the thread where their comrades were upset that they had to follow rules at a political event — having to to be members! in order to participate?! Unheard of oppression! As long-term lurkers, they’ve no doubt equally upset that they’re not getting proper deference here among the oppressors that actually voice options on the site. Oh well, we’ll no doubt miss their lurking bat and ball as they stomp off.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Ah, the Quincy Adams Wagstaff School of Government.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
At age 16. Do you want the decisions you made at 16 brought into the conversation? Why don’t you mention what she did in the latter part of the decade?
Gin & Tonic
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Just suggesting that criticizing HRC for what she may have done as a college student might not be as effectively done by someone who was born two decades after the events of the time.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: No, no, no. You make ridiculous excuses for a small man adored by jackasses. He stands for nothing and I don’t give a shit what happens to him or any of the idiots who emptied their pockets for an obvious fraud.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@JPL:
I want to see Loving! I’m a YUUUGE film buff.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
It’s a winky face. Sometimes I whip it out when I’m feeling frisky
;)
scav
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Sing along . . .
Gin & Tonic
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Ooh, demanding. That’s a plan.
WaterGirl
@Applejinx: I know how I felt about Barack Obama in 2008; I would have been devastated if he had gone down in flames, so I am sorry that you are having to give up your dream. It is surely an incredibly emotional time, and I’m sure a lot of things feel personal when it may be they aren’t personal at all.
People are wound up and emotions are running high, but we are all on the same side – when all is said and done, we are rational people who know that Donald Trump would only bring chaos and pain. Hang in there, and I’m sorry for your loss.
Aimai
@Applejinx: fuck “credit” — why does bernie need credit in the platform? Why do any of his asshole voters need “credit?” The ideas are good , or not. If they are good and end up in the platform that ought to be enough. If politicians or voters are voting or governing in order to be praised they are doing it wrong. Fuck bernie and the weepy, needy, egotistical mob he rode in on.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Nice Troll!
And if you’re going to reduce all of Clintons Very Serious Issues to “Gotchas” then I’ll you a Trump in the General!
FlipYrWhig
@Gin & Tonic: Demanding only fails because of oligarchs, neoliberals, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz!
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: How?
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: Then ‘looking for more shit to fling’ it is, then, and I will just sit around watching ‘Burlington College’ stay stuck to the top of the trending list on Twitter and wait to see what wiser heads have to say.
My friends are not jackasses, just desperate and some of ’em kinda crazy with fear and strain. The platform is more questions than answers and I’ve already conceded that Hillary may have better, more achievable answers, but the questions are absolutely vital.
Vermont’s a small state, and I live in it. If Bernie’s a small man, he’s our small man and he tried, and for a time he had people believing they could wish a whole new politics into being. We will just have to keep struggling with the old one (as Hillary is comfortable doing).
Aimai
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: pretty mu h all of that is in hillarys platform already.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@FlipYrWhig:
I like that, thimbleful of buzzwords and a shitload of ignorance. It’s easier to string a bunch of buzzwords together. I have to keep up with these responses!
Bob In Portlands on Vacation.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@scav:
THIS! X (a googol)!
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Helpful hint: if you want to be elected by Democratic voters, it’s a bad idea to be assholes to popular Democratic politicians. Ron Paul’s voters won’t get you over the finish line.
hitchhiker
@Applejinx:
Nah. Hillary’s fiercest supporters are out organizing on the ground. They have not the smallest interest in punishing Sanders voters because there’s way too much work to be done. Don’t mistake online blabbing for what’s actually happening.
What’s actually happening is that there are a few weeks of primaries left, the outcome of which will be important to narratives but not to the outcome. What’s actually happening is that the Republicans have given us all a monumental gift by allowing a stooge to stage a hostile takeover of their party. Because of that stooge, we’ll probably get the Senate, which means a generation of good-for-progressives Supreme Court decisions!
Nobody is focused on bringing furious Sanders voters to heel. Really.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: By DEMANDING!!
Comrade Mary
@Applejinx:
Where do you see this trend? I don’t see it in the top ten across the US as a whole, nor in any specific location. If there is a flurry of interest, that’s hardly surprising given that it is fresh news, but right now, the top ten across the States is:
Westbrook
86.3K Tweets
#DragRace
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BruceFromOhio
@Baud: ‘schism’ ? That one is a no-brainer. Tell moneybags denier boy to GTFO, and then let’s get on with GOTV.
ETA: OK, woops, hit Submit too soon. He’s ‘combating’ climate change, not denying it. I see your pernt.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
Technically Bernie hasn’t lost the Primary yet. Sure he’s down by almost 300 delegates, but fuck it the campaigns still got cash so why not keep it going!
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Ha ha. Fuck you, go vote for Trump.
Amaranthine RBG
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Yeah, for weeks the Hilldos on this site kept repeating, “Hillary is raising money for down ticket races. Hillary is raising money for down ticket races. Hillary is raising money for down ticket races. Hillary is raising money for down ticket races.” After the actual numbers came out, that all of a sudden dropped away as a talking point.
I suspect that was the last time in her life that she expressed and honest political opinion.
WaterGirl
@hitchhiker: well said.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Yeah, nothing’s funnier than a bunch of assholes shouting down a woman politician. I guess I’m one of those humorless feminists who doesn’t find a mob of men attacking a woman to be funny.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@FlipYrWhig:
FlipYrWhig says:
May 16, 2016 at 10:53 pm
@Applejinx: You and your friends are not “the left wing.” You’re a bunch of testy, touchy, uninformed, grating, not very bright, self-congratulatory whiners, like your candidate.
Look, I know LSU might not be the Bastion Of the Humanities for You Very Serious People, but I’ll raise my Latin Major against ur degree any day of the week.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: Maybe both Sanderses suck badly at their jobs and dupe credulous people into following them off cliffs.
Applejinx
@WaterGirl: Barack and Michelle knew good and well they couldn’t run a college into the ground like idiots and then cover it up ;P this is the paradoxical advantage of being black American: they didn’t screw up. Even the failings in office are generally about running into limitations of the system. I wish we could still have ’em, but we can’t.
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you, I remembered that. I still don’t know what happened, but I appreciated your concern and I hope my struggles coming to terms with becoming a Clinton supporter are not wholly unappreciated. I will never make a good cheerleader, I’m afraid: can’t even completely support everything about Bernie, much less Hillary. But I’m still a voter… and an old (ish) white male who has no intention of being part of some ‘white male Trump demographic’, at any cost. Fuck that noise.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Amaranthine RBG: You can fuck off and go vote for Trump as well.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You can keep doing CPR for as long as you want, but you’re kissing a corpse.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, great. This means far more meddling in CO, I am afraid, what with David Koch’s residences here.
Now I not only have to find a better-paying job for *myself*, I have to be able to spare my $27 to hurl at Michael Bennett! And Gail Schwartz!
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
No one’s ever gotten very far being against (rather than pro-actively for) something, mon petit Robespierre.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@scav:
It’s rather amusing that the lurkers are suddenly the ones congratulating themselves about fighting the good fight at BJ over Bernie Sanders, in the thread where their comrades were upset that they had to follow rules at a political event — having to to be members! in order to participate?! Unheard of oppression! As long-term lurkers, they’ve no doubt equally upset that they’re not getting proper deference here among the oppressors that actually voice options on the site. Oh well, we’ll no doubt miss their lurking bat and ball as they stomp off.
I’m sure Cole will miss the AD revenue to his sight too.
And the donations every year.
We belong to this blog and have a right to it just like the Democratic Nomination Process. We are simply voicing our opinion.
jsrtheta
@Baud: This has been true since at least 1968.
Mike J
@Mnemosyne:
They booed the Bernie supporter who was on stage because she was black, a woman, and asked for civility, so they assumed she supported Clinton.
sigaba
I don’t follow why it’s so important for Bernie to get “credit” for his platform…
FlipYrWhig
This Jonathan person is a parody, right?
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Apparently your Latin degree didn’t leave you enough time to learn English.
CarolDuhart2
Applejinx, your threats are hollow. Vermont is easily the most liberal state in the nation sans California. If Democrats actually ran a Democrat against Sanders, odds are he/she would win easily. These days, only the most moderate Republican (out of the party practically) could win there, and would be ineffective because they could not vote on most of the Republican agenda without risking losing their seat.
Having an actual Democrat might be an improvement. Bills passed with the help of colleagues, the possibility of becoming chair of some committees or even Majority Leader with tenure would help with some funding for Vermont projects. You would probably get one who’s more media-saavy, someone who could actually be a spokesperson for Vermont on national television.
Also a Democrat would be more likely to be down-to-earth, not yearning for a poltiical revolution that can’t be carried out due to age and lack of clout. Instead they would focus on infrastructure, on preserving Vermont’s wild beauty, on making Vermont more competitive with new industries. No red banners.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Omnes Omnibus:
At age 16. Do you want the decisions you made at 16 brought into the conversation? Why don’t you mention what she did in the latter part of the decade?
I didn’t have to point it out. You just did.
Besides, I had to bring up from an earlier question.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
come on, this is a spoof
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
Gotta be. The “Latin major from LSU” thing is a major tell.
Applejinx
@Comrade Mary: Hah! I fixed it. Thanks ;)
I had ‘Tweets Tailored Just For You’ on. Try that and see if Twitter doesn’t think you should hear all about Burlington College.
Went back to ‘Boston’ (that or Quebec I guess) and it was back to normal. I guess you could say I volunteered for that little lesson in curated topic trending. All the more believable if you have to explicitly tell Twitter, ‘sure, tailor my trends, what could possibly go wrong?’. I told ’em that, and sure enough, Twitter REALLY wants me to hear all about Burlington College. I bet it’s still on the top of the list of the tailored feed.
jsrtheta
@Amaranthine RBG: Yeah, when she was in high school. I’m sure you’re just like you were in high school.
Or maybe you are.
BTW, she raised $18 mil for down ballot Dems in 2015. I’m sorry, what did Bernie raise that year?
Aimai
@Applejinx: this is ridiculous. Sanders and his wife are public figures. He is running gor president right now. Of course his wife’s incompetent handling of burlington college is trending all day on the day they announced they were closing due to her debts. She is also being sued by the vermont republicans. This isnt some kind of grand clinton revenge scheme. Its just politics as usual in modern america. If bernie wasnt expecting to be attacked he just wasn’t paying attention to the treatment both obamas and both clintons have been treated with for years–hell he hasnt been paying attention to the shit his own supporters have been heaving at both the obamas snd clintons during this campaign. Its utterly pathetic and disengenous–or takes some kind of chutzpah, to sit by and watch bernie and his team call hillary, bill clinton, chelsea and pretty much every democratic official a republican mass murdering corporate whore and then react with shock and outrage because the press reports timely information about bernie sanders’s frequent campaign surrogate jane sanders.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Gin & Tonic:
I agree. Wading into these waters gets pretty murky sometimes.
scav
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: But you’re not going to get the same amount of respect if you’re not here, day to day or at least often, establishing your reputation. Claiming authority by claiming lurkerdom is pretty much an evidenceless claim for those of us without keys to below ship. Your personal reputation is zip, nada, so expecting everyone to roll over and admire you is a tad overweening. And now you’re claiming contributions by bringing cash-flow like some sort of ad-click SuperPac? Isn’t that a corruption of an otherwise pure endeavor?
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Amaranthine RBG: @Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You know who else was campaigning for Goldwater at the same time? Bernie’s BFF in the media, Thom Hartmann!
Roiliin’, rollin’ rollin’, keep those tumbrels rollin’…
Amir Khalid
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Technically. But as a practical matter, the race is over and has been for weeks. As I and others have said, the priority now is to make sure Donald Trump never makes it to the Oval Office. Bernie has no reason to quit the race just to ease Hillary’s path to the nomination; but the Donald would do America and the world a lot of damage, and he, Bernie, knows it. The sooner the Democratic party unites against Trump the better, and Bernie can make it happen sooner.
FlipYrWhig
@sigaba: Because that way anything good that comes of a Clinton presidency will get to be chalked up to general Bernie Sanders wonderfulness. THAT WAS HIS THING! HE PRACTICALLY INVENTED LIBERALING!
Elie
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Yes sirrrr — ..throw it down!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Gin & Tonic:
Ooh, demanding. That’s a plan.
Hahaha well played.
The demanding part of course will come from the over 2 million people on his email list of course!
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: The fuck?
Adam L Silverman
@Applejinx: Glad I got you. Its one thing to go away because you’ve decided you have to, its another because you think someone forced you out, though no one did. As for what you’re going through, I think you’re doing fine. It is hard to recognize that those we support or think highly of are just as human and flawed as the rest of us.
As I’ve written a couple of times, I have a different take on this stuff because I’ve seen what we do from the inside and recognize that most of what we do is process. Senator Sanders is absolutely correct on several important issues. At the same time, for someone who has been on the inside as long as he has, he seems to have no ability to convey that his accurate take is enough without the process. And as I’m sure you’ve seen, his most vocal supporters seem to be completely ignorant, if not disrespectful, of the reality that we are a system of process.
All of that said, at the end of the day, both he and Secretary Clinton are professionals. He knows he can’t stay in the Senate and not caucus with one of the two parties. He’s definitely not going to caucus with the Republicans. So he knows what he’ll have to do. And as I wrote, she needs him right were he is in the Senate. So they’ll come to terms.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
s/he’s a pretty accurate parody
Mnemosyne
@Applejinx:
You know I love ya, man, but I have to mock you for just a moment: You had your Tweets set to give you your fill of Bernie Sanders news and you’re shocked that the Burlington thing is dominating them? The only conspiracy is your algorithm.
Read some “Hamilton” tweets, you’ll feel better.
Amir Khalid
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Did you remember to pay John Cole your $20 subscription?
amk
The rw idiot troll carrying the torch for all the loony lefties today. Hilarious.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne: It will always come down to Hamilton, won’t it?
Applejinx
@CarolDuhart2: Sanders is going to run as a Democrat from now on, and his indie days are done. There is no registration yet for the next term and when there is, he’ll register as a Democrat and will be a trustworthy vote on progressive legislation.
That’s what he said he was going to do. It means he staked the whole ‘indie truthteller’ thing on this run, got much more out of it than he ever expected, and expects to fall in line from here on in. This is not unpredictable: it’s not even a bad thing though my facebook friends are going to be very upset about it.
Davis X. Machina
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
About 16?
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: You live in Vermont and you think news about the closure of a college _in Vermont_ is some sort of Hillary Clinton conspiracy?
Comrade Mary
@Applejinx: Ah. I’d never tried tailored trends — thanks.
Actually, this is — not what I expected. I don’t care about ANY of these topics.
#bucciovertimechallenge
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A lot of the people I follow on my account are sports-mad Americans who also write about politics, tv, animals, coding, arts, various things — but tonight is a big sports night, plus Castle and Drag Race. I think tailored tweets are a snapshot of what the people I’m following are most interested in RIGHT NOW. Maybe tomorrow, in the middle of the day, it will get artsy and political again, but tonight is almost solid sports. So if you were seeing Burlington College at the top of your tailored tweets, that’s just Twitter clumsily amplifying what your people are currently tweeting about.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
Mnemosyne says:
May 16, 2016 at 11:03 pm
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Helpful hint: if you want to be elected by Democratic voters, it’s a bad idea to be assholes to popular Democratic politicians. Ron Paul’s voters won’t get you over the finish line.
What is this fetish with Ron Paul supporters? Do you like Ron Paul secretly? You can tell us, we won’t judge you ;)
And what popular democratic politicians are u referring to? The ones who dragged the party’s favorability numbers down to like the 20/30s? Those ones?
patroclus
Yet again, like on the other thread(s), I think this is much ado about not much. The Bernie supporters’ “issues” are about superdelegates and rules and invective against DWS and Barbara Boxer – this is a long way from real issues that could convince voters, delegates and supers to switch their commitments. It is not thuggery to require that state convention delegates actually be members of the party. DWS didn’t personally select elected members of the DNC. Democrats are not inherently corrupt.
On the other hand, primarying Bernie seems like a really bad idea. He’s a good Senator and I want him to stay there. Magnanimity and not vindictiveness should be Hillary’s strategy now – and that of her supporters. Hillary already supports much of Bernie’s real issues – helpfully summarized by jonathan above. To win over his supporters, she needs to emphasize them more. I’m sick of the bald-faced liar Bob, but Bernie’s other supporters need to be won over; not vilified.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
Um, duh. At least it’s not Ukrainian Nazis, right?
This tiny video is NOT actually “Hamilton”-related, just something LMM is a fan of: “Glass Shark,” an excerpt from the “My Brother, My Brother, and Me” podcast.
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne: Actually, my Twitter is extremely apolitical. They’re into ponies (MLP), furries, writing, art and music. I never see anything much political out of ’em (only follow about 19 people, followed by ten times as many because I am a writer/cartoonist) and the ‘tailoring’ never showed the faintest hint of politics until now.
My FACEBOOK is a goddamn nightmare of political hell, almost as bad as the Nevada convention :D
Aqualad08
@FlipYrWhig:
Nope. He’s real. He’s a member of the Louisiana Socialist Network, which has a Facebook page. Most of the posts on the Louisiana Socialist Network page are liked by… the Louisiana Socialist Network. My 70-year-old mother does the same thing to all of her posts… only with her it’s kinda funny…
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
No thanks, TRUMPS A FUCKING FASCIST.
Ugh.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
from the NYT, via Cole’s twitter feed
two great candidates, bringing in new voters, generating enthusiasm….
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
And you have lived in California for how long now?
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: Breathe.
Comrade Mary
@Applejinx: Oh. So much for my theory about how tailored trends work. Maybe you;re experiencing a glitch? What I’m seeing does seem to reflect a bunch of sports yammering that doesn’t interest me in the least, and I need to blame somebody for it :-)
J R in WV
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Still up right now. Thank you, Smedley, wonderful.
And, of course, a conservative Republican, who won’t be able to get a job, much less elected, we all hope.
Mnemosyne
@Applejinx:
I’m telling ya, you gave something away in your Tweets and/or who you follow and the algorithm figured it out and fed you Sanders news. They’re sneaky that way.
Elie
@patroclus:
We have to see how Bernie carries out these next few weeks before we decide on magnaminity. I am open to it. Is he or is this going to be the more bullshit Bernie thing. It is up to him. If he continues to damage, then, he will have to accept consequence — like all of us do when we step over….
I will add as a postscript, I am really tired of looking at and hearing him and his wife. I would not mind at all if we got a replacement. His shit was just not that sharp — same speech for the last 20 years and no depth. I’m not buying out of the gate. I certainly would not hesitate to send money and support to an opponent if Bernie doesn’t come around. Maybe it is time to retire at 75….
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Which is why you broke your ‘lurking’ to come here and shit all over the only woman stopping him. Not chiming in how much of a fascist he is in any of the other Trump threads.
Fuck you, go vote for Trump.
sigaba
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: “Hahaha well played.
The demanding part of course will come from the over 2 million people on his email list of course!”
2 million people on a Sanders email list = 10,000 tweets = 10 people show up
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: HOW CAN I BREATHE WHEN IM SO SAD ABOUT BERNIE
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
Mnemosyne says:
May 16, 2016 at 11:07 pm
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Yeah, nothing’s funnier than a bunch of assholes shouting down a woman politician. I guess I’m one of those humorless feminists who doesn’t find a mob of men attacking a woman to be funny.
I’m sorry was she attacked? Did she go to the hospital with one of those flying chairs?
Geez, she got called a bitch.
That one person called Clinton a Corporatist whore.
these ad hominems all excuse everything the Clintons have done because BOTH SIDES DO IT!
patroclus
@Aimai: I don’t disagree, but Jane Sanders is not Bernie Sanders and screw-ups by her, in my view, don’t really reflect upon him all that much. Yes, it should be publicized but I don’t think it should be “weaponized” against Bernie. Yes, it’s hypocritical of Bernie’s supporters to blame Hillary for Bill’s mistakes and then argue that Hillary and her supporters should lay off criticizing Jane, but nonetheless, we should practice what we preach. Magnanimity should be what we Hillary supporters are engaging in, not tit-for-tat. Bernie should concede in about three weeks – I think we should make it more likely (rather than less likely) that he will do so.
scav
@J R in WV: And he may very well be off congratulating himself on the number of clicks his devastating analysis is generating — social media god! he’s thinking.
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx: You may want to step off of that person. OTOH, what do you want now. Bernie won’t win. Who do you want as a second choice? And are you willing to work for it?
L Boom
@CarolDuhart2: Thing is, Bernie really does have running in VT down to a science. He does a great job in Chittenden County where a huge chunk of the population lives and still wins most of the more rural and conservative parts of the state handily (see: gun positions). He’s pretty much got the seat until he steps down.
That said, I would definitely consider an alternative when he’s up next in 2018 if there’s a realistic one. Which is doubtful because of the long-standing non-aggression pact between Bernie and the state Dems. And at this point, I could see him doing a lefty version of the Lieberman poutrage if he was unsuccessfully challenged.
Elie
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
I hear THAT…
I am following his comments and not buying one inch. Let me second that!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@FlipYrWhig: @Mnemosyne:
Apparently your Latin degree didn’t leave you enough time to learn English.
Wow, you are humorless aren’t you!
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Hillary got nearly 18M votes in 2008. She’s 3M votes ahead of Bernie at the moment. She doesn’t need Bernie’s e-mail list.
Bernie needs her much more than she needs him. (The way he burns cash, he’s going to have big debts to pay off when he finally hangs up his right index finger.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Aqualad08: I’ve been meaning to ask: are you Garth or Khalduram?
FlipYrWhig
@L Boom: The Bernie for Bernie Party?
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Look, I realize you dead-ender Bernfeelers are all upset because Hillary reminds you of your mommy and you just can’t stand the thought of a woman having power over you, but too fucking bad. Grow up, put on your big boy pants, and eat your spinach.
Comrade Mary
Oh hey wow Rubio’s going on a Twitter meltdown.
Timeline
Context
Elie
@L Boom:
From what I understand, Bernie hasn’t spent one dime or one minute supporting Vt progressives. I am sure a younger, better representative for that Senate seat could be found. Sometimes you just over stay your welcome. It is definitely up to the state constituents, but a lot rests on a) his class and behavior and b) the outcome of the election. If that shitstain wins after Bernie prolongs his exit, I would recommend that he move to another country for a while.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I know, it’s so weird to find a woman who doesn’t giggle along when you insult women.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Your point?
patroclus
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: She doesn’t “need” it, but it would be nice to have. To stop the fascist, we’ll need all the help we can get, and that includes a vast majority of Bernie supporters. I don’t think we should look a gift horse in the mouth.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Jim, Foolish Literalist says:
May 16, 2016 at 11:13 pm
e belong to this blog and have a right to it just like the Democratic Nomination Process. We are simply voicing our opinion.
come on, this is a spoof
MUAHAHAHA
BEHOLD! I AM THE GHOST OF BALLOON JUICE SENT TO CONCERN TROLLING ALL THE PARTY UNFAITHFUL!
Applejinx
@Elie: I agree with part of this.
I need to see how Bernie handles this: not ‘his followers’, but him. So far, I think he’s vowed that he will continue to be Democrat until he croaks, and I think he can see the Burlington College thing and go ‘oooh fuck’. I see him being guardedly conciliatory: bear in mind he can’t just flip over and endorse Hillary or the berniacs will go completely bonkers (more than they already are). Him stalling for time means he doesn’t intend to just turn them loose, but he’s having no easier time with them than I am. And you guys know I can put across a cynical view of Clinton, that would seem to be a way to get a foot in the door and possibly entertain the idea that she could ‘change to fit the political climate’ (yeah I know for some of you she already walks on water) but half the time I can’t even get that far. I can’t talk to a person who thinks Hils is determinedly putting across a 90s neoliberal ethos forever. That’s just dumb.
I have to see how Bernie carries out these next few weeks too. I’m not likely to want him fired as my Senator for any reason, but I agree he’s got to earn magnanimity. Not sure I expect that, but it’d sure as hell help with this crowd of chair flinging hooligans full of new rules lawyering. I don’t like some of my fellow Berniacs at all, and am sorry I’ve in any way enabled them. That’s NOT what I meant to see happen.
patroclus
@Elie: Exactly – he gets about three weeks more of this. And then he needs to do what Hillary did 8 years ago. Even better, if he can manage it. But he needs to rein in some of his supporters now. They’re certainly entitled to campaign for votes, but these ludicrous arguments about corruption need to be toned down.
The Lodger
@Applejinx: I want to see both Bernie and Hillary tell their people it’s time to clean this mess up. I have no patience with either one saying, “You first.”
Aqualad08
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh, Garth all the way. Huge Titans fan from the 80’s….
Comrade Mary
@Comrade Mary: Back to Twitter tailored trends: there’s definitely a geo-component. I just got this message when I turned it off: “Trends offer a unique way to get closer to what you care about. They are tailored for you based on your location and who you follow.”
So Applejinx, if you’re in Vermont, a big local story about Vermont will rise in your tailored trends even if few or none of the people you follow are talking about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: K. You are here to troll. One suspected. Fuck off….
L Boom
@Elie: Agreed. That’s been the biggest reason for my Hillary support, even though I did feel obligated to vote for Bernie in the primary. The VT progressives have a number of state legislature seats and a few mayoral spots and could really grow if someone of Bernie’s stature pushed for them. But he hasn’t done shit for the Progressives in the 20+ years I’ve lived here, and they even have him listed as one of them on their web page.
Contrast that with HRC’s support in downticket races. Or especially Elizabeth Warren, who’s been an amazing contrast to Bernie in the past few weeks. Attacking Trump, supporting Dem candidates and reading money for them, all sorts of great stuff.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@patroclus:
Yet again, like on the other thread(s), I think this is much ado about not much. The Bernie supporters’ “issues” are about superdelegates and rules and invective against DWS and Barbara Boxer – this is a long way from real issues that could convince voters, delegates and supers to switch their commitments. It is not thuggery to require that state convention delegates actually be members of the party. DWS didn’t personally select elected members of the DNC. Democrats are not inherently corrupt.
On the other hand, primarying Bernie seems like a really bad idea. He’s a good Senator and I want him to stay there. Magnanimity and not vindictiveness should be Hillary’s strategy now – and that of her supporters. Hillary already supports much of Bernie’s real issues – helpfully summarized by jonathan above. To win over his supporters, she needs to emphasize them more. I’m sick of the bald-faced liar Bob, but Bernie’s other supporters need to be won over; not vilified.
This.
Thank you, Patroclus! This expresses my opinions perfectly.
Very well said.
Sucks you had to die in the Trojan War though.
Adam L Silverman
@Aqualad08: Okay, just checking. If you haven’t seen the new DCAU Titans vs Justice League movie, they did a good job. No Auqalad, except in the focus on the Titans in the special features, but the story and the movie were solid and my understanding is that they’ve done it as a vehicle to set up a fourth, enduring line featuring the Titans. The other three being Justice League, Batman, and Superman. And then, of course, the one offs that they do.
Ken
@FlipYrWhig: Hard to say if he’s a parody, but his name is an anagram of “Clean Nonlethal Hand Job,” which may or may not be significant.
(Also “Banal Enhanced John Toll,” “Handball Jet Cannon Hole,” “Antenna Blanch Hood Jell,” and over 74000 others according to the Internet Anagram Server.)
burnspbesq
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
We Californians can be every bit as parochial as any Noo Yawkah or Masshole. You fuck with one of ours, we fuck back. And there are a lot more of us. That reception for Senator Boxer WILL NOT be forgotten on June 7.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@patroclus: Depends on the price, no? As a peace offering gift, sure it would be good to have.
He’s spent the last 6 months or more all but calling her Corrupt™ and saying that Millionaires and Billionaires™ were buying the election through her. Bernie’s fans heard exactly what he was saying.
She should just roll over when he comes calling? I don’t think so. He’s not the only one with cards in this game.
Bernie has a lot of work ahead of him when the DC primary is over.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Aqualad08:
This Jonathan person is a parody, right?
Nope. He’s real. He’s a member of the Louisiana Socialist Network, which has a Facebook page. Most of the posts on the Louisiana Socialist Network page are liked by… the Louisiana Socialist Network. My 70-year-old mother does the same thing to all of her posts… only with her it’s kinda funny…
Yes! I wondered when someone would look me up instead of calling me a Trump supporter or Paulite. Did you happen to notice the uniform in my profile picture too or did you just not want to mention that?
J R in WV
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
This post is so full of misconceptions and falsehoods that I’m not going to dignify it with a detailed response. I don’t have time or inclination for that, and you don’t deserve the attention to detail that would take.
But I will say that Bob in Portland is a solo practitioner with no other people supporting him on the blog. If you want to be a supporter of BiP, that will make two of you rather than one. good luck with that. You better study up on Ukrainian fascism first!
amk
Hilarious to see bs bots/trolls that even at this stage of losing everything including their much touted ‘platform’, they still demand hillary should do this, hillary should do that.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Which is why you broke your ‘lurking’ to come here and shit all over the only woman stopping him. Not chiming in how much of a fascist he is in any of the other Trump threads.
Fuck you, go vote for Trump.
No, I broke my lurking to come play with yall! i enjoy reading all the anti-trump invective yall have to say in the other posts. There’s no need to post because yall say it all.
Now, when yall shit all over Bernie…then the Trolls will come out.
patroclus
@srv: Hmmm. Gary Hart was submarined for having Donna Rice on his lap on a trip to Bimini. Trump has multiple adulterous relationships, multiple marriages, comes on to every women he finds hot, demeans and belittles women all the time, opposes women’s liberty, thinks women who have abortions should be “punished” yet because Charles Krauthammer says something, the story will fizzle. We’ll see bro; we’ll see.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@sigaba:
The demanding part of course will come from the over 2 million people on his email list of course!”
2 million people on a Sanders email list = 10,000 tweets = 10 people show up
Surely, you jest! Here in the good ole state of Louisiana, Bernie supporters managed to turn out over 300 people for a March.
Did I mention that this was in LA? Where the left is just as corrupt as the right.
Mnemosyne
@burnspbesq:
Come on, it’s not like Bernie had to win California in order to have a chance in hell of winning the primary, right? I’m sure that pissing off Californians three weeks before our primary election will have no consequences for Sanders whatsoever.
patroclus
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Roll over? No. Get the list for an agreement to help pay off his debt, let him keep his seniority and not support a primary challenger? Maybe.
J R in WV
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
If you are 31, you don’t have any personal knowledge of what Hillary Clinton was doing, politically, or of what politics in America was like then. I’m 65, and I know exactly what was going on politically then. They were shooting important liberals then. Unimportant liberals were being beaten and arrested, repeatedly. There was a real war, with 50 thousand dead on our side, and millions on the other side.
You don’t even know how to find a clue. That is the point he was making. You couldn’t even figure that out. For Dog’s sake, man, learn how to think!
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Nah, your ego’s big enough, thanks.
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
If it had been DiFi maybe we’d care a bit less. Not a lot less but still. But Sen Boxer? Yeah, she is one of the good ones. I hadn’t realized her age until she said she wasn’t running, for some reason she seems much younger to me.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@patroclus:
Magnanimity should be what we Hillary supporters are engaging in, not tit-for-tat. Bernie should concede in about three weeks – I think we should make it more likely (rather than less likely) that he will do so.
PATROCLUS FTFW! Cooler heads WILL prevail!
Aqualad08
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
No, but your glasses were obviously stolen off of a passed out Sally Jessy Raphael and your chin hairs look like a 1970’s pubic fro…
Neil H
@Applejinx: Honestly, I almost immediately default to putting somebody in the “conspiracy theory nutter” category if they start insinuating that the Twitter trending list looks suspicious in some allegedly manipulated way. Doing that says more about the accuser than the accused.
patroclus
@Ruckus: And if it had been Chuck Schumer for that idiotic vote against the Iran deal, New Yawkers would probably just regard it as part of the deal or a day in the life. I’m from Chicago, and y’all can boo Rahm all you want! But not Jake Arrieta – them’s fighting boos!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Hillary got nearly 18M votes in 2008. She’s 3M votes ahead of Bernie at the moment. She doesn’t need Bernie’s e-mail list.
Bernie needs her much more than she needs him. (The way he burns cash, he’s going to have big debts to pay off when he finally hangs up his right index finger.)
Shes winning. No one disputes that.
And why would Bernie go into Debt? We are still giving him money to waste!
scav
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): OooooOOOOOooo, there’s that extra magic appeal to authority to add to being a lurker, he’s a lurker in uniform! All Hail.
Davebo
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You really need to work on your block quote skills Jon.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
Look, I realize you dead-ender Bernfeelers are all upset because Hillary reminds you of your mommy and you just can’t stand the thought of a woman having power over you, but too fucking bad. Grow up, put on your big boy pants, and eat your spinach.
Lol! See now that was fuckin funny!
My turn:
Look, I realize you, Mnemosyners out there are all upset because Sanders reminds you of your daddy and you just can’t stand the thought of a man having little power over you, but too fucking good. Grow down, put on your big girl skirt, and eat your Brussels sprouts.
See what I did there!
burnspbesq
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m sure Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan will instantly be rendered powerless to resist when The Bern Demands.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Yes, you substituted words without actually understanding them.
Davebo
@burnspbesq:
Not just demanding, demanding while gesticulating wildly. The finger makes all the difference.
J R in WV
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
A Latin degree, hummm…
But you don’t seem to have a grip on English words derived from Latin – spelling not usage. Sometimes I think I learned more in HS in the 60s than many students do in college these days. Old timer’s disease?
My wife had a co-worker with a MS from Columbia, who seemed totally unaware that NY state had huge numbers of men fighting in the civil war, way back when. Draft riots in NY city. Good luck with that Latin degree. Classics might be more useful.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
You’re right, but I’m pissed. I want to see him CRUSHED on June 7. I’m hoping I’ll need a kayak to get to work on June 8, because the tears of the Berniacs are waist deep in the streets.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@scav:
He doesn’t realize that it’s the ego of Sanders’ biggest problem children that’s painted the candidate into this corner. The kid here is why there are successful, peaceful counter-revolutions after noisy, violent revolutions.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Omnes Omnibus:
Why are you telling me to fuck off?
I’m here to voice the opinions this blog seems to be ok with losing. I like this blog. There’s not many out there, BJ has been a stalwart go to for me.
That’s not very nice language btw ;)
KS in MA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thank you, Jim, Foolish Literalist!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Ken:
@FlipYrWhig: Hard to say if he’s a parody, but his name is an anagram of “Clean Nonlethal Hand Job,” which may or may not be significant
That’s awesome. Lol I’ve never given a handjob but I suspect it wouldn’t be a “clean” one. FWIW my porn name is Hammy Feronia! What’s yours?
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Boy, you’re really tellin’ ’em how it is now! I bet they’re about to crack and see the light – exactly the same way as you do– any minute now! You are a genius, man!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@J R in WV:
No thanks! I’ll take my early German Communist studies instead.
And there are more of us out there that choose not to comment because of all the hate they know they’re gonna get!
scav
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): He now seem to think being a lurker and then disappearing would result in a voice being lost on this blog. I’ve clearly not been paying enough attention to the vibrant lurker democracy of opinions going on around here.
RaflW
Isn’t it past most of you people’s bedtimes by now?
chopper
oh great, another one. dougJ needs a hobby. doesn’t he have a wife now?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@J R in WV:
If you are 31, you don’t have any personal knowledge of what Hillary Clinton was doing, politically, or of what politics in America was like then. I’m 65, and I know exactly what was going on politically then. They were shooting important liberals then. Unimportant liberals were being beaten and arrested, repeatedly. There was a real war, with 50 thousand dead on our side, and millions on the other side.
1968 is a great book to start with in the attempt to put myself in the 60’s!
The people’s history of the United States is another good one! By the power of reading I’m able to understand the events of history!
Did I mention I served in Afghanistan? Over 4k dead, millions of innocents killed! Occupy Wall St, the Arab Spring! The Great Recession of 2008! Democracy spring, Climate change, Code pink!
But these aren’t as real as your examples, right?
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@scav:
And such a brilliant voice to lose! He’s got a degree in Latin and thoroughly studied early German Communism. He’s not just a bright light, but the sun around which the Planet Juicer orbits. I hope he stays with us forever and always, I do!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Nah, your ego’s big enough, thanks.
Taught me well, Cole has!
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Down with the draft, right, boss?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Aqualad08:
No, but your glasses were obviously stolen off of a passed out Sally Jessy Raphael and your chin hairs look like a 1970’s p
I loved those glasses! We called them BCGs or “Birth Control Glasses”
magurakurin
Has he stated it outright yet? Jonathan Holland Becnel works directly for the Sanders Campaign. Google his name. Oh, and also too, maybe someone could teach him how to use the block quote tags.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
So, just to be clear, everything Hillary Clinton did 52 years ago is completely relevant to today and a clear marker of what she’s really like, but everything else that happened 52 years ago is completely irrelevant and can’t be discussed because we have to talk about what’s happening now, man!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Davebo:
Mnemosyne
@magurakurin:
Man, when you’re sending staffers out to directly troll websites, you know you’re desperate.
scav
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): Shame about the lack of formatting nous — presumably that would be handy with a web-site and all. But, as it’s sort of devolved into the ingenue fluttering eyelashes phase of engagement, I think I’m off. Figuring out the Wars of the Roses both in history and Shakespeare is bridging the gap between now and the Hollow Crown II (especially as stuff seems to have been dropped).
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@magurakurin:
Oh, the boss knows about that stuff- why does he have to clarify his writing like a normal?
z
The worst is folks who didn’t start paying attention till sometime in March or April after a Bernie nomination became more or less a mathematical impossibility. I’ve heard multiple friends complain about how the system is rigged, Clinton is corrupt, and now we need to start raising money for Bernie… same folks can’t name any GOP candidate other than Trump and weren’t involved at all in 2015 when it would’ve actually made a difference.
I don’t really get it — certainly Bernie’s not particularly appealing in the debates. I think it’s mostly an opposition to an inherited presidency and to a smaller extent latent sexism. So many people will say Clinton’s not likable/relatable/etc and I’ll ask “name one female politician other than Elizabeth Warren who you find likable?” It’s a very rare skill to nail that thin line between folks thinking you’re a pushover and folks thinking you’re too shrill. Clinton’s poor at that but so is almost everyone.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Davebo:
tastytone
@scav:
LOL. Absolutely perfect.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@scav:
Yorks good, Lancasters bad- unless you’re from Leicester. ;)
Goodnight!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@J R in WV:
SFAW
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Doug!
Where you been, man? You had me fooled for awhile, but that line was a nice “tell.”
Latin Major — outstanding!
ETA: Looks like I’m not the only one who came to that conclusion.
Mnemosyne
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Jaysus, don’t get the Ricardians in here, too. It’s already enough of a shitshow.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
That’s funny, boss. String ’em along a bit more. Everyone will laugh with you!
divF
@Mnemosyne: One of the things that torques me about the HillaryHate contingent is the fact that they keep bringing up her being a Goldwater Girl as a 16 y/o, but ignore what she was doing in the 1970s.
– Interned for a prominent lefty law firm in Oakland, CA (one partner a communist, one an ex-communist).
– Extensive work on children’s law / children’s rights.
– Campaigned for McGovern in Texas in the 1972 election.
– Worked for the House Judiciary Committee on the Nixon impeachment.
And that just covers 1970-1974.
ETA: She is a classic left-wing Democrat from the 1970s. It is also this history that arouses, I suspect, the visceral hate from the GOP.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Whoops, preposition problems! Make that:
Just like a clown! Who doesn’t love a clown?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@magurakurin:
Mnemosyne
@z:
If I may disagree with you (after all, it’s an argument thread), I think the latent sexism is predominant. How many people do you hear complaining that Bobby Kennedy or Ted Kennedy ran for president? And I’m pretty sure that Jeb! flopped on his own merits and on the fact that his brother was a crappy president, not because of some abstract feeling about an “inherited” presidency.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Oh everything Venereal, like AIDS, syphillis and the clap! Charming!
Mnemosyne
@divF:
Like I said, apparently we’re only supposed to look at what Hillary was doing 52 years ago, then fast-forward to the present, ignoring anything else that happened in between (unless it reflects badly on her, of course). Because 40+ years of being a Democrat isn’t as good as Bernie’s less than 1 year.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
Miss Bianca
@Baud: Wait, what? For realz? I’m kind of afraid to look…
SFAW
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Oh, Doug!, you and your sly humor.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@SFAW:
While Doug’s great at the sock puppets, this one doesn’t strike me as one of his. Doug’s aren’t just usually of the right of center, but they have independent inner-logics that keeps you guessing. There’s no logic in thee boss here, inner or otherwise.
z
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah fair enough. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt on that; Clinton being somehow corrupt is usually their primary complaint and a lot of them are too young to even remember the 90s. I point out that their whole adult life she’s been a squeaky clean Senator & SecState and they revert to saying she’s in the pocket of Goldman Sachs and Saudi Arabia… Dems are very lucky none of the low-toxicity GOP candidates turned out to be any good at running for President because for whatever reason a LOT of young left-leaning folks are channeling Rush Limbaugh.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@z:
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@SFAW:
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
You may be right. But I think Doug has (at times) adopted the sock-puppet persona of a prototypical Dunning-Kruger commenter. As you say, he usually adopts that of a RWNJ, but I’m thinking it may be easier to shift from a RWD-K to a LWD-K, than it would be to shift from a leftie with a clue to a LWD-K.
Perhaps I should apply for a grant from Burlington College to study this.
ETA: Of course, his non-denial denial is another tell, I think.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@divF:
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Uh, who’s THE DOUG, boss?
@SFAW:
Is it too late to apply to Burlington in order to get into Bennington?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Mnemosyne:
Bring ’em on! They’re all outta horses anyway!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@SFAW:
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Who needs logic at Midnight anyways!
In other news, this thread is almost to 400!
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Ya know, boss, I was just thinkin’…If Hillary Clinton was a minor in 1964 but should still shoulder the blame for Barry Goldwater, shouldn’t someone who was of age and who joined the military-industrial complex after the age of majority- and most probably after the invasion of Afghanistan began- bear some blame for that conflict?
Should we clean Madame Guillotine off for ya, boss, or do you not mind someone elses blood on your own throat?
divF
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Where is that Clinton? Easy. The human and humane core values that led to her to do those things in the 70’s are still there. Forty years of politics at the highest level have made her (and Bill) cautious, pushing the envelope only as far as it can go and still get results. And the fact is, the GOP extreme right-wing elite are sure she is a lefty at heart, but can’t get traction on painting her as an extremist.
If you want to know what her values are, look at her enemies – the Scaifes, the Kochs. At one point, she let the mask slip, and spoke of the “vast right-wing conspiracy” in 1998.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@z:
She’s so squeaky clean! Those people in Honduras and Libya and Syria are Super Excited she became Sec of state! I know the people of main st in New York loved her deregulation of Wall St! Those millions from the banks were squeaky clean.
Butttttt RUSH LIMBAUGH BENGHAZI FBI
Nah, I’m more interested in Economic, Neoliberal issues concerning Clinton.
amk
Congrats cole. You got yourself a 3/5th tbogg unit and a brand new troll.
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Why are you wasting your time? Responding to Doug when he’s saying something intelligent or witty is one thing, but when he’s recycling a 13-year-old’s idea of what passes for hilarious repartee, it’s cruel to kill so many pixels in response.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Of course I should be held for my actions. And yes, I should be held liable for my participation in it.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@SFAW:
I don’t think it’s Doug.
SFAW
@amk:
It’ll get to a full TBogg, just from Doug (or his dimwit sock-puppet) responding to himself. Must be a slow night in wherever-Doug-lives.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Then leave the realm of politics, just as you’d have Clinton do.
Miss Bianca
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You know, you really can go back to just lurking any old time now.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@divF:
This. ^^^^
I don’t believe she’s a heartless monster, and she has done good things.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@SFAW:
Doug’s too damned busy. Even when he was much less busy, he confined his posting- under his name or a sock’s- to earlier hours, not 1:30AM.
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
I sort of hope you’re wrong, because nothing detracts from this blog more than a moron who thinks he’s (A) smart, (B) witty, and (C) politically aware/astute/well-read — but is actually none of those.
I wonder, is his nym/nom an anagram of “Cletus Spucker”?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@amk:
3/5 Naked Capitalism
1/5 Daily Kos
1/5 Balloon Juice
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@SFAW: @SFAW:
Hey! I didn’t even make one fart joke and I played nice with all the kids on the playground!
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@SFAW:
Google the name.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@SFAW:
Oh, it’s coming! These responses aren’t gonna type themselves lol
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
It’s 1230 here on the Bayou, Cher!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@SFAW:
And here I was, believing I was contributing to the blog! The fact that I’m commenting on a Balloon Juice post def gets me 2 outta 3! No one likes an echo chamber :)
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
You should add me on Facebook too!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
Good Talk, Becnel
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Apparently, my original response was considered a ham-subsitute, so to speak. Perhaps a mod can explain, or clear it, or whatever.
Either way: the guy’s a fool, not very bright, and his responses indicate a level of maturity on the far side (from me) of adolescence. But, hey, at least he (purportedly) can speak Latin.
If we make it to a TBogg unit, 200 of the responses will have been his.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@SFAW:
It was there and then gone. Weird.
Just wanted to add that another reason I don’t think it’s Doug is bnecause Doug likes to give big OBVIOUS clues that he’s sock-puppeteering, as if he’s writing for The Onion. If this is a sock-puppet, it’s being handled like shitty satire, such as that which shows uup in The Daily Currant or The National Memo- ya know, not sure whether it’s satire or a hoax…Which are different things.
chopper
sweet titty-fucking christ, figure out how to block quote already. fuck.
BillinGlendaleCA
@chopper: I’ve been assured he’s smarter than you and I, and we’ve been doing it rong all along.
JNagarya
@Susan K of the Tech Support: And the closer of Burlington College is directly tied to Jane Sanders financial screw-up.
How much sense of entitlement does it take to believe it is acceptable to be gratuitously destructive?
JNagarya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Justice would see it destroy his political career.
Time for him to go back to Vermont and locate those tax returns.
JNagarya
@Iowa Old Lady: It’s obvious he supports it: not only has he not condemned it — and this isn’t the first opportunity for him to do so — but the press release from one of his surrogates continues to blame the Party for his “fans” anti-democratic rhetoric and behaviors.
And the situation was inflamed with falsehoods by a member of Sanders’ NATIONAL campaign.
These are not nice people; and they are definitely not about democracy.
JNagarya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: But Chomsky and Michael Moore, and several other Sanders “fans,” have come out and told those “fans” to vote for Clinton.
Whether they are Paulite “Libertarians” or Trumpites, they are certainly not progressive, and not Democrats.
“Libertarianism”: If you are mugged and your wallet stolen, it’s your own damned fault for having had a wallet.
JNagarya
@Amaranthine RBG: Sanders and his “fans” are opposed to war — but not opposed to domestic terrorism against democracy itself by his “fans”.
And he giving them a transparent go-ahead to continue the terrorism.
Some of those “fans” actually left sufficient trail to themselves to enable prosecution of them. The Nevada Party should file a criminal complaint in order to teach these assholes what it feels like to end up in jail for engaging in obvious criminal behaviors.
JNagarya
@burnspbesq: So he’ll have the support of one super delegate. If I were in a position to do so, this is the letter I’d send Sanders:
_____________
Dear Senator Sanders:
We Corporate Whores stick together.
Sincerely,
Democratic Party Super Delegates
P.S. There is also a dissenting opinion — or alternative opinion, if you will — also unanimous:
Dear Senator Sanders:
Thank you from the bottoms of our hearts for so profoundly insulting us. As result we have all voted to line up behind you and kick your ass out of the Democratic Party.
Sincerely,
Democratic Party Super Delegates.
P.S. You don’t get to shit on the carpet and then rub our faces in it.
Aimai
@patroclus: this has NOTHING to do with Hillary supporters. Aplejinx is complaining that persons unknown are keeping this private matter at the top of his twitter feed. That is not the case. Its news. Its big news. It is news lots of people are going to be interested in. Its not this hysterics Clinton hit list.
SFAW
@JNagarya:
Should become a rotating tag or somethin’
@BillinGlendaleCA:
He was confused because he kept looking for the button that said “Blockus quotus.”
And, I’ve been speling it “worng” at times — have I been doing it rong?
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Unfortunately, it was perhaps the wittiest comment ever made on Balloon Juice, and now it is lost forever.
Not as witty as some of the stuff tonight from “Doug” [sic], of course, but still …
different-church-lady
@Applejinx: I think there’s something telling in the fact that you keep talking about Sanders Supporters as though they were land mines that even Bernie can’t defuse.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Hope you brought your shoulder pads. We play the full-contact version of the game.
different-church-lady
General reminder: Twitter is mankind’s most efficient method yet invented to make smart people stupid.
LanceThruster
Hillary Hacks are substantionally worse rhan Bernie Bros. Their argument *for* their candidate basically boils down to “TRUMP!”
It ain’t over till the lady in the Chairman Mao pantsuit sings.
DCF
Chaos At Nevada Democratic Convention; State Party Chair Flees Building As Sanders Supporters Demand Recount
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/15/chaos_at_nevada_democratic_convention_dnc_leaders_flee_building_as_sanders_supporters_demand_recount.html
When the System Feels Rigged, How Surprising is Convention Mayhem?
Nevada’s Democratic convention devolved into mayhem on Saturday as party pushed controversial new rules and disqualified Sanders delegates
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/05/16/when-system-feels-rigged-how-surprising-convention-mayhem
It’s Spreading: Another Democratic Convention Just Rejected Superdelegates
http://usuncut.com/politics/alaska-convention-dnc-superdelegates/
D58826
@burnspbesq: exploding gall bladder
different-church-lady
@DCF:
Yeah, the same thing completely explains the Brooks Brothers Riot too.
Chyron HR
@DCF:
I Don’t Need Objectively Observable Reality I Have Feelings
Chyron HR
@LanceThruster:
This is totally different from Bernie constantly insisting that the primary results should be thrown out because he’s the only one who can beat Trump. It just is, okay?!
D58826
I’ve said it before and will say it again – can we just make Obama president for life and go back to discussing the relative merits of Cole’s fury menagerie.
DCF
@LanceThruster:
LT,
Let’s be charitable…as a white Wiccan, I admire the Christian forgiveness shown here (and elsewhere) by the Hilbots…after all, given the damage (bordering on devastation) done to minority populations via welfare and criminal ‘reforms’ of the 1990s, NAFTA, and the 1996 Telecommunications Act, it’s a wonder that those same groups would forgive (forget?) and ask ‘Please Madame Secretary, may I have another?’….
Since HRC is – metaphorically speaking – not wearing any clothes, the ‘Chairman Mao’ pant suit may have to be replaced by a NASCAR overall with ‘sponsors’ emblazoned upon it….
D58826
from a berner on kos
Maybe far fetched but the rest of his post, i.e. Bernie takes his marble and goes home w/o endorsing Hillary seems plausible at the point.
If it comes to pass a carpet bagger after all
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/17/1527272/-Why-it-s-more-likely-than-you-think-that-Bernie-would-endorse-Trump
DCF
@different-church-lady:
Don’t forget the Filene’s Basement riots of yesteryear….
Given the fear-mongering of the Shill-for-Hill crowd here, it’s rather ironic that ‘feelings’ would be derided in such a manner….
Establishment Democrats and the Next March of Folly
On choosing the only candidate Trump could beat
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/17/establishment-democrats-and-next-march-folly
different-church-lady
@D58826: I think it’s indicative of just how fiercely the #BernieOrBusters feel the desire to go scorched earth that they are now inappropriately attributing that desire to Sanders himself.
D58826
@different-church-lady: Could be but Bernie has to figure out a way to shut it down or it will stick to his reputation going forward. It will make it more difficult for the Hillary side to compromise and in the event of a trump win, Bernie will be relegated to Ralph Nader status. Part of the problem over the NV activities is that a couple of his top operatives where there and could not (or would not???) shut it down. If they tried to shut it down and just got beyond what they could do then it is not really Bernie’s fault but it is his campaign so they own it and have to deal with it.. If he can’t control his operatives how is he going to deal with Putin who is probably easier to deal with than the GOP..
LanceThruster
@Chyron HR:
A future to believe in.
He had me the moment he spoke of Palestinians as human beings.
Hillary will spill much innocent blood for Israel.
This ends here.
Cacti
@different-church-lady:
Given Bernie’s total silence to date over his supporters’ Nevada thuggery, I’d say their bolshevik tactics were done with the tacit approval of Grandpa Goodness.
different-church-lady
@Cacti: The hoo-haw in Nevada is one thing. Claiming Sanders would outright endorse Trump (under any circumstances) is quite another.
Applejinx
@different-church-lady: THIS. (and darn it, this thread doesn’t deserve a TBogg, but here… we… go…)
That’s exactly the scenario and it’s not a nice look (or a nice position) for Bernie. He never intended to win. He’s already succeeded at mainstreaming the conversation about shall we say ‘a core liberal progressive’ platform (if people insist on taking that from him, so be it: you can’t give a thing away and cling to it with both hands). Clinton would not have political cover to run the way she’s running if not for Bernie out-lefting her and drawing huge stadium crowds.
The problem is, the crazy, desperate and overwhelmed ones are not doing what he told them. I admit to being desperate and easily panicked myself :P however I think I’m a little closer to what he had in mind. I went and worked for him rather than flaming Hilbots on facebook. I’m trying to see things in a ‘Hillary has a chance to run and govern way to the left’ perspective (if nothing else I can always think in terms of racial justice: my black friends have largely been Hillary supporters from the start, and they’re not bozos, and I have to pay attention to that if I’m honest)
They are also not carrying on like Balloon Juice Hilbots, however. They make it easy to consider working for the common good. Quite a few people around here make me long to just burn everything down, as I can’t believe their attitudes: or, rather, I am used to seeing them in the worst Republican freepers and feel those attitudes have wrecked the country pretty good.
But in turn, I think it’s indicative of how fiercely the Hilbots want the obstacle to go away, that they want to TURN Bernbots into ‘things that are irredeemable and beyond salvaging, needing to be brought to heel rather than reasoned with’, and in turn project that onto Bernie.
It makes me really sad that SOME of the Bernie supporters I was with, act like toy revolutionaries ready to burn it all down. BUT I can’t help but notice that one of those people is the family member who refused to actually go out and do a bloody thing for Bernie while it mattered and also ordered me to never shame him for this choice not to help personally… and another of those people is a man whom I know has been clean and sober for a bunch of years, but who’s now fallen on really hard times and is living in constant panic over basic survival concerns.
I’d be more worried about the second guy, but he’s probably hungry a lot of the time, and on the verge of a breakdown, and you just don’t make good effective plans in that state. The first guy is most likely to sit home and refuse to vote, and his wife is openly talking about voting anti-Trump because of how much it matters, and may yet convince him if we don’t completely stampede him out of politics forever by hasty actions.
This is not a war against a coherent revolutionary force determined to throw the country into chaos.
This is an EMT call to rescue people who are drowning, and what I see here is Hilbots going ‘HE SPLASHED ME!’. The drowning, irrational people hit you while thrashing incoherently around. So you’re gonna curse ’em and go ‘let ’em drown, the fuckers, they have no respect’?
No.
How about save America, rescue the desperate starving panicking people AS WAS ALWAYS THE INTENTION, keep faith with them even when they can’t trust you, and in four years THEN you can ask whether they’re just bad people who deserve to be stomped like termites?
The easiest most effective way to stop hysterical people insisting Clinton will double down on ‘neo’political funneling everything to the hyper wealthy is NOT TO DO IT. Bill already served a couple terms where he jacked taxes on the rich and got the economy going. It’ll work twice. Let’s do that and in a few years then you can ask the hysterics if they feel kinda stupid about what they thought was going to happen.
BernieBros>HillaryBots
It’s hard to read something with so much bias and so little self-reflection here — I’ve really stopped visiting Baloon Juice because the Bernie hate is so palpable. Hillary supporters (like that actor from the “Wire” now facing assault charges) are becoming unhinged because the reality of the “inevitable” myth has been shattered, and the reality-based community aren’t buying it anymore.
You’re all acting like f*cking Republicans (which shouldn’t surprise me because this site used to be a pseudo-libertarian warblog). And frankly, acting like a Republican is the only way Hillary can beat Trump — she’s going to have to move rightward so the “moderate” Republicans will vote for her.
The truth is, Hillary and her followers are destroying the Democratic party — not the other way around. And when they lose this election, they’ll blame everyone but Hillary for it.
** Save this post — because in a year’s time you’re all going to see I was right.**
Penus
@Aqualad08: That’s a social media best practice these days. The more likes, the more the post spreads.
different-church-lady
@BernieBros>HillaryBots:
Oh lord, don’t tempt me.
les
@BernieBros>HillaryBots:
Bookmark this Libs!!!
Ah, internet traditions.
satby
Wow, no wonder Cole told everyone to fuck off.
Eric
@khead: I hope you drown in your own $hit.
-UAW