Heh, indeed:
First of all, who elects anybody with a system that apparently was designed at a marmoset technical college? This sounds like something Kim Jong-Il would have thought up on the golf course between his 11th and 12th holes-in-one.
Second, the ill-feeling in this election began when Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the mysteriously still-employed chairperson of the Democratic National Committee, rather transparently tried to grease the skids for Hillary Rodham Clinton way back in 2015.
***That being said, this whole mess was over four freaking delegates, and the Sanders people should know better than to conclude what has been a brilliant and important campaign by turning it into an extended temper tantrum.
I voted for Bernie Sanders. I even wrote about why I did here at this very shebeen. But if anybody thinks that, somehow, he is having the nomination “stolen” from him, they are idiots.
Charles Pierce, Hillary shill.
D58826
Ok folks, Trump is big news but The really really BIG news is the Phillies are one game out of first and it’s mid May. These kind of things are not supposed to happen in a rational universe.
MattF
@D58826: ‘Rational’. Har-de-har. Tell it to the hair.
Miss Bianca
Marmosets have technical colleges?
Mnemosyne
@D58826:
One September, both the Cubs and the Red Sox were in their respective division playoffs at the same time. I said that I fully expected the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse to come charging over the right-field wall if that was the World Series.
Fortunately, the Cubs saved us all by blowing their division championship. Again.
Southern Beale
The Nevada State Convention: A Delegate’s Story.
Yes, the caucus system is awful and needs to go. No, you weren’t oppressed because you kicked and screamed and acted like big babies and STILL lost.
I’m so disgusted with team Sanders right now I would happily donate to his Democratic rival in the Vermont Senate campaign in 2018. The guy is a fucking fraud.
LAO
@D58826:
Well there you go. Check back with us in August.
kindness
When you’ve lost Mr. Pierce, you should be thinking of another line of work.
Gin & Tonic
@D58826: Aren’t there 126 or so games left in the season for things to reach their natural order?
D58826
@Mnemosyne: When the Phillies won the series in 1980 a local car dealership ran an ad with the announcer on a glacier talking about now that hell has frozen over.
jl
Cole trying to exhaust the Hillz/Bernie fighters into a few posts on Monday morning? Probably won’t work.
My NV kin, who have attended several NV caucuses report that they are usually sketchy confused messes.
More trivial BS that will be forgotten in a few weeks.
I’ll need to steel my willpower to keep away from BJ blog during the Dem convention. Cole will rip several gaskets, whether whatever happens means anything or not.
Mike J
Still looking for what she did other than not wanting as many debates as some people wanted.
D58826
@Gin & Tonic: I have every confidence that the natural order will be restored.
Dadadadadadada
“Fun” fact: I actually went to college with a girl named Hillary Shill. That was her actual first and last name. I wonder what she’s up to now.
The Dangerman
@Mnemosyne:
BARTMAN!
FWIW, I watched that platy live and that poor Dude got screwed….
…but, still … BARTMAN!
What’s this “try” shit? She bought several barrels of this stuff at Amazon (FWIW, read the reviews, they are hilarious).
http://www.amazon.com/Passion-Lubes-Natural-Water-Based-Lubricant/dp/B005MR3IVO/ref=cm_rdp_product
cleek
@Mike J:
you just gotta have faith – the conviction of things not seen.
Bergman
@Mike J:
Reducing the number of debates to aid a notably good debater. Cunning!
Southern Beale
@Mike J:
I know, I keep hearing all this bile hurled at DWS and I don’t know where it’s coming from. Of course, I don’t live in her district so I can’t speak to that part of it, but in terms of the presidential nominating process, I’m really unclear what she did that was so unfair. And also: do Berners seriously think MORE debates worked in their candidates’ favor anyway? Hillary owned him every single time. The more I heard him rail about Wall Street and the 1% and the 99% like my drunken Jewish uncle, on and on and on, he just lost me with every successive debate.
And then all that nonsense about debates being on a Saturday instead of a Tuesday or whatever? It’s just all seemed so petty to me.
JMG
Scheduling a debate the Saturday night before Christmas isn’t exactly building the brand. DWS evidently is a wizard fundraiser. She’d better be, as she is a terrible TV spokesperson for her cause and hasn’t done much visible nuts and bolts organizing.
Gravenstone
@Mnemosyne: So when the Cubs and Red Sox are both contending this October, would that herald in the Horsemen? Or would that be any hint of Trump still being considered a “viable” candidate in the same time frame?
MattF
@The Dangerman: And this banana slicer page. It’s also cheaper.
ETA: Also, check out the human body fat replica..
germy
@Southern Beale:
I never understood that line of criticism because I watch all debates on youtube, at a time convenient for me.
I don’t like DWS but it’s not because of the scheduling of the debates.
rikyrah
The Cubs are winning.
Had a friend from Atlanta lecture me about not being sufficiently excited about the Cubs’ record.
I’m like dude…I was born a Chicago Cubs fan. To be blunt, until they begin Game 1 of the World Series…don’t expect for me to unshelter my heart toward them. It’s the only way to stay sane as a Cubs fan.
Davis X. Machina
@Southern Beale: If it wasn’t for DWS, no one would be allowed into the Democrats’s debate unless they were running on Clause IV, and the convention would be on the island of Vieques.
But she didn’t. even. try.
joel hanes
all this bile hurled at DWS
For me, her political protection of her friends Diaz-Balart and Ros-Lehtinen seem inappropriate for the DNC chair.
Fine in a plain Representative from Florida; disqualifying for her role in the national party.
I am told that her current effort to protect the payday loan industry is excused because the bill she’s fighting against is really horribly written and would be very bad law, but Jesus I hate those bloodsuckers.
Would be very glad to learn that my distaste is misplaced.
rikyrah
@Gravenstone:
might be.
Now, if it was the Cubs and White Sox…yeah, get your affairs in order.
rikyrah
@joel hanes:
She has no phucking excuse for defending them. That was just the cherry on her sundae of incompetence.
Davis X. Machina
@Gravenstone: Doesn’t count. BoSox are now, post 2004, just another big-payroll team, and I say that as someone who wore a Russ Nixon throwback jersey at one point….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and for a record of someone calling for more debates before Bernie declared the only reason he wasn’t beating HRC was because there weren’t enough debates and they were on weekends
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JMG: She’d better be, as she is a terrible TV spokesperson for her cause and hasn’t done much visible nuts and bolts organizing.
I agree with this: she’a a lousy surrogate, and I also agree that the whole question of payday lenders is a moral one, and she’s on the wrong side. Postal banking is maybe my favorite Bernie! idea.
Trollhattan
@rikyrah:
She was also vociferous about not normalizing relations with Cuba, like a good southern Floridian. It seemed odd coming from a Democrat, much less a high-ranking one.
JMG
Idly clicking the remote ran past a CNN panel agreeing that because Trump denies the Times story, he has “turned the tables” on the publication. It’s not only that the network doesn’t do journalism, it actively opposes it.
inventor
@D58826: Houston would take Vincent Velasquez back for Giles straight-up. Phillies could keep all the other guys.
Shawn in ShowMe
@rikyrah:
My condolences.
gvg
DWS has a history with Democratic party partisans as being bad for reasons she deserves. However I think many johnny come lately interested parties which would include some of the Sanders new voters have heard she is bad and partisan and have begun using that phrase without knowing the history. Consequently they are wrong.
DWS first attracted my attention I think before Obama. At any rate she is from the Miami South Florida area and I am in North Florida. She declined to help a democrat run against some Republicans in South Florida that she was personal friends with. this seems to be not in the best interests of the Democrats. I think there have been some other instances. Then she chose to support Hillary and did not originally want more than 3 debate which Sanders and company interpreted this as being a way to tilt the scales towards Hillary. She gave in though when lots of people asked so imo she probably just thought 3 was plenty.
She has not been good at all at flipping GOP seats to Democratic so I don’t think she is good at her job.
I don’t think she should endorse anyone during the primaries because it’s her job.
I don’t have the impression that she is so connected she even could do all the nefarious things she is accused for.
Betty Cracker
@joel hanes: Yep, protecting Diaz-Balart and Ros-Lehtinen was inexcusable. DWS has been a shitty DNC chair, and I don’t doubt that she tweaked the debate schedule to deny lesser-known candidates an opportunity to break out. That it was a stupid strategy since HRC is a good debater is yet more proof of DWS’s incompetence, not evidence that she wasn’t trying to pull a fast one.
ruemara
Still looking for evidence of “greasing the wheels” or even of a supposed coronation. Just because Bernie Sanders spent most of his public service warming a bench or grandstanding in front of fawning left pundits, does not mean he put in work in any community that makes up the Democratic party. Hate her or love her, Hillary has some level of connection to issues for women, LGBTQ & POC. She’s made more efforts to perform on issues, not just speak about them. That’s not a coronation, that’s being a player in the game, not a surly critic on the sides.
The Dangerman
@MattF:
OK, will have to Google.
My favorites are the book “How To Avoid Huge Ships” (a classic) and this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R231U4ZG0YDNHD/ref=cm_cr_dp_title/276-7058779-4053145?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000KKNQBK&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=65801031&store=drugstore
ETA: OK, if it isn’t obvious, NSFW (is anything Ballon Juice SFW?)
Mike J
@Trollhattan: I think everybody has policy disagreements with her. I don’t understand how Cuba relations or payday lending helps the Clinton campaign.
I have said it before, but the next chair of the DNC should be somebody actually named Shibboleth just to save everybody a lot of trouble.
Elie
I can’t bear watching CNN except for Fareed Zakaria’s show on Sunday morning where it seems like he is at least occasionally wanting to share information about the world. I miss having Al Jazeera which I used to switch back and forth between BBC and that and only occasionally need to watch CNN. What a horrible horrible network! Americans really have no view of the world and the view here at home is in our navels, burrowing to ever darker and crazed spaces… I am really worried about us — we are getting nuttier and nuttier….
Alex.S
The lesson that should be learned — caucuses really need to be eliminated and should not be used to elect general election candidates.
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: The Cubs have a good skipper now. It’s not surprising they are doing well.
Bostondreams
@Davis X. Machina:
Well, so are the Cubs, if you want to really compare them. One is 3rd in salary, one is 7th.
Jeffro
OT but this is almost the saddest thing I’ve read all year:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/16/health/yellowstone-bison-calf-euthanasia-good-intention-trnd/index.html
People leave those bison calves (and the adult bison too, while you’re at it) ALONE
EWG Gestalt
@Mnemosyne: That was 2003. Both the Sox and the Cubs made it to Game 7 of their respective League Championship Series, and both teams lost (thank Steve Bartman and Grady Little for that). If those two games had gone the other way, we would have been faced with the nightmare of A Cubs versus Red Sox World Series, and the imminent destruction of the universe.
Gelfling 545
@Mike J: @Mike J:
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker:
Me and Jeffro Jr. are gonna see the Cubs play (and hopefully, beat) the Phillies on Memorial Day weekend at Wrigley. VERY psyched! Well I am, anyway…Junior mostly just goes to games for the junk food ;)
Elie
@Alex.S:
Good luck with getting rid of them…. I totally agree but for some reason they are a fixture in some states (like WA). I am going to the Congressional Caucus here on SatI doubt we will have the same issues as NV unless a whole whole bunch of Bernie delegates don’t show. Don’t see that happening. BTW, next week, WA state has a primary! While none of the democratic delegates will be picked that way, the republicans select theirs that way. Not much of a contest for them anymore, though.
Dadadadadadada
@Bostondreams: But which of them has won 3 World Series since 2004?
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: MIT – Marmoset Institute of Technology. In Europe I believe the prestigious one is Technische Universität Marmoset. In Israeli its Marmoset Technion (they keep the nuclear tipped marmosets they “wink, wink, nudge, nudge” don’t have there). In Russia it is мартышка технологический институт.
Trollhattan
@Mike J:
To be clear, I’m not a member of some club thinking she’s rigged the primaries. Despite her job title I don’t think the position comes with that kind of clout. If there’s one thing we can depend on Democrats for, it’s not following directions from on high.
Bob In Portland
Emily Giske, a lobbyist for Pfizer and Goldman Sachs. Tonio Burgos, a lobbyist for Pfizer. Joanne Dowdell, senior VP at NewsCorp (Fox). Bill Shaheen, lobbyist for the PainCare Centers. Jeff Berman, lobbyist for private prison company Geo Group and Keystone XL.
What do they all have in common? They’re all super delegates chosen by Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Wow. The whole spectrum of Democratic Political thought. Hip hip hooray.
And sufficiently pure for Cole!
Betty Cracker
@Jeffro: I’m a Rays fan and so have fond memories of the current Cubs manager and wish him well. Y’all have fun!
AnotherBruce
@Jeffro: I remember visiting South Dakota and watching people get out of their cars and walk towards the Bison that were grazing in a field next to the road. People were getting within 10 feet of these animals that are as big as an SUV. Idiots! I felt like yelling at them but didn’t want to scare the animals.
AnotherBruce
@Betty Cracker: Fun it is. The guy is a smart and serious manager but he understands that baseball is meant to be fun.
Alex.S
@Elie: Washington probably had a caucus to move up its vote. Since the state runs a voting primary (and pays for it), they can have fixed dates or even refuse to hold one.
The state’s political party then has to make a choice if they want to move the date around or whatever, which only leaves a caucus as an option.
I half hope the Democratic party provides disincentives for caucuses in the next round of delegate rules (as they are currently providing incentives for holding a primary later on, having more Democratic votes in a Congressional district, and states that hold their primaries at around the same time as other nearby states).
D58826
@ruemara: While the other issues involving DWS are legit, the idea that by
she is committing some kind of crime against humanity or at least democracy seems kind of silly. Trying to make the primary season as painless as possible to maximize the party’s chances in November seems like a reasonable strategy. Should that have been revisited once Bernie showed that his campaign was for real – yes. .
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: I’d probably use the instrumental case there, марты́шкой. Commenter gogol’s wife can correct me.
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: @AnotherBruce: There’s this from last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkYurqVysto
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I’m pretty sure I didn’t get it right, my Russian is exceedingly (as in microscopic levels) limited.
WJS
@AnotherBruce: You were wise to say nothing. Let Mr. Darwin’s theories bloom.
dedc79
@Jeffro: I’ll see your sad story and raise you a sadder story:
Shawn in ShowMe
@Bob In Portland:
It’s not a good look, is it?
D58826
@Jeffro: After my sister told me that she had gone to a San Diego game with some Navy friends I asked her if she had a good seat – first base or third base side. No she said they had seats behind 2nd base. Her knowledge of baseball has improved since then.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Southern Beale:
Al Giordano seems to actuallly be serious about running against Bernie. His Wikipedia page got deleted by Berniebots, according to a reddit. LOL.
Steve in the ATL
@Southern Beale:
It’s partly about her hair, right?
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: You’re doing it to me *again*, you creature!! Making me laugh at work! ‘Tis VERBOTEN here at Marmot (*not* Marmoset!) Tech! Even now, the marmots are whistling in disapproval!
mike in dc
I look forward to the “Bernie sold us out” posts when he inevitably endorses Clinton.
rikyrah
@dedc79:
I’m not an animal lover like so many here. But, if I owned a cattle ranch, and the money that fed me came from said cattle, then I, too, would kill whatever I thought was a threat to them. Maybe he knew exactly what he was killing and how rare it was. But, then again, maybe he didn’t. And, if it’s threatening the cattle, was it up to him to care about how rare it was?
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: You’re welcome.
schrodinger's cat
@Steve in the ATL: Its better than Trump’s hair for sure.
Bob In Portland
@Shawn in ShowMe: And as a bonus, they are all sufficiently pure for villagers here at Balloon Juice.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, it’s all fun and games till the Marmots start screaming at you…
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
you’re really a piece of work. and kind of a scumbag.
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/telling-half-the-story-isnt-enough/
Omnes Omnibus
@Bob In Portland: Your point is? That DWS not a good DNC chair? If so, I think you would get little argument around here. If it is something else, please be more explicit.
Bob In Portland
@Southern Beale: You do that. You stand in solidarity with the lobbyists of private prisons. Heh heh heh.
Where do you think Hillary will deploy troops to first?
dedc79
@rikyrah: That all may well be true, but it’s still a sad story nonetheless.
Also, that rationale taken to its logical conclusion means the eradication of a whole host of predators (cougars and wolves, among them)
Bob In Portland
@Omnes Omnibus: Actually, read other posts here.
Trollhattan
@dedc79:
“Threatening livestock” usually means “was physically present within a few miles” or whatever the rancher/farmer chooses to claim, short of corpses or wounded livestock, The deceased critter can’t mount a defense.
California cattlemen freaked the fuck out when a single wolf appeared in the far northeast. In the meantime contract hunters kill tens of thousands of coyotes/year under federal predator control.
lethargytartare
@AnotherBruce:
I worked a couple summers in Yellowstone. Employee’s there call them “tourons”. I had to chase some off a geyser once, and saw a guy get tossed by an Elk during the rut.
Some of these encounters are unavoidable (I once found myself about 5 feet from a bull moose who was quietly munching away around a river bend. He didn’t seem to notice, but I called off the hike and turned around just the same), but the sheer volume of stupidity in that park is just astounding. Bison and Elk are terrifyingly large when you’re in a car, you have to be brain dead to get close to them on foot.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Omnes Omnibus:
When you’re stacking superdelegate rosters with corporate lobbyists and shilling for the payday loan industry, you’re guilty of a bit more than being incompetent.
lethargytartare
@Omnes Omnibus:
His point is to repost other people’s content without thought. The “Superdelegate Lobbyists” stuff is bullshit.
gogol's wife
@Gin & Tonic: @Adam L Silverman:
I don’t know, maybe Технологический институт мартышек?
lethargytartare
@Shawn in ShowMe:
take a minute to learn what a superdelegate is and get back to us.
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
you’re a liar
Elie
@rikyrah:
Its a huge loss. Wolverines are mysterious and rare members of the badger family that are usually found in the remotest northern woods. They are very rare and small in number… they need a lot of territory and obviously these times are all about no land for wild critters. They are nick named “Bear cats” because their take all comers, bad temper and ferocity. They crush bones easily with their teeth. They are the last vestige of the truly wild… It may or may not have been threatening his cattle. There is no way to know but that and I respect the ranchers right to protect his cattle, but sheesh… Its just tragic — tragic.
gogol's wife
@Adam L Silverman:
For some reason when I use Cyrillic, my comment disappears. So in transliteration: probably Tekhnologicheskii institut martyshek?
Bob In Portland
@lethargytartare: Well, here’s a NYT article about Giske’s lobbying. You might want to keep googling, lethargy.
gogol's wife
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m going with genitive plural (see above).
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: @dedc79: This is actually what predator reimbursement programs are supposed to be about. Tho’ they are subject to abuse as well.
FlipYrWhig
“Well, of course you realize that The Establishment, embodied by Debbie Wasserman Schultz, is the entire reason why our ragtag band of loud self-aggrandizing doucheweasels isn’t winning, because the reason DEFINITELY CAN’T BE that we’re a ragtag band of loud self-aggrandizing doucheweasels. No, probably it’s
Emmanuel GoldsteinKeyser SözeDebbie Wasserman Schultz who’s directing everything behind the scenes.”The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Bob In Portland: Go vote for Trump then.
Miss Bianca
@gogol’s wife: I’m glad to see the level of intellectual fire power that is being brought to bear onto solving this weighty translation problem. : )
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
no need, I’ve seen behind your curtain of bullshit. But please, give us the full list of jobs that disqualify a person form being elected to the DNC.
Trollhattan
@lethargytartare:
Spent a few springtime days in Estes Park, when it’s pretty much overrun by elk waiting for the RMNP high country to open up. I was pleasantly surprised how most folks took them completely in stride. When you’re around them so…close it’s hard not to be impressed by the size–suckers are BIG (not moose big, but still). Hiking in RMNP itself, not only were the critters not afraid, many were kind of attracted to us, like in a Disney cartoon. A little disappointing they didn’t break into song.
AnotherBruce
@lethargytartare: I think a lot of people tend to think of wild animals as they do their pets. I don’t claim to be an expert. But it’s easy to surmise that if you approach an animal, the animal will interpret that as a threat. And that’s a rational behavior.
LibraryGuy
@Bob In Portland: Hi Bob, I assume you saw the meme, but not this response at Please Cut The Crap blog here. Just another perspective.
I see comment 73 beat me to it.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Bob In Portland: Me, personally, I’m hoping for Russia. That would be awesome, no? Couple o’ nukes on Vladmir’s dacha, plop plop, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief it is.
joel hanes
@dedc79:
that rationale taken to its logical conclusion
… led several generations of traditional farmers to shoot all hawks and eagles on sight.
When I was a boy, raptors were extremely rare in the Midwest, and several species had disappeared from most of their range.
“They was after my chickens”
AnotherBruce
@Adam L Silverman: God, that looks like the very place I was talking about.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Hillary in the Ukraine, telling Putin to stop this war. Ahh, good times to be had.
aimai
@FlipYrWhig: This is exactly the impression I get from the loudest anti DWS people. I mean–I’m sure she’s awful, in that she is a bland, centrist, corporatist, congresswoman from Florida who has to work with the shittiest people, in the swingiest state, just to keep her seat every two years. But the idea that the head of the DNC is responsible for all kinds of evils (supporting a prominent democrat in her pursuit of the presidency) and also all kinds of ground level organizing is absurd. For instance the DNC does not, I believe, have anything to do with the picking of congressional candidates or their funding. That is the DCCC and the DSCC. The DNC literally exists just to handle the presidential election. ITs stupid but that is the way it is. So to fault her for not somehow recruiting better congressional candidates or doing something something something to do GOTV organizing outside of the presidential campaign is just wrong. Its not in the job description.
Bob In Portland
@lethargytartare:
But Hillary’s against legalizing marijuana. Nice to know that opiod dealers are in her corner, though.
lethargytartare
@LibraryGuy:
oh he saw it, he just doesn’t care. his integrity was sacrificed to Putin ages ago, what’s a little misleading meme forwarding?
Mike J
@Shawn in ShowMe: How does she stack the superdelegates list? Superdelegates are 1) any Democrat elected to a federal or statewide office in a state or 2) Democratic party members elected by other members of the state Democratic party.
Bob In Portland
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Spoken like a true cold warrior. Of course you support Hillary. But no kind words about the Nazis in Ukraine?
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: You and my old man…
Bob In Portland
@lethargytartare: Did you read the comments section? Did you look up the people? No? Oh.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Bob In Portland: Giske’s the head of the DNC LGBT caucus. Burgos was on Bill Clinton’s AIDS advisory panel. Gosh and golly, I wonder why a Putinist like yourself has problems with them?
Oh and, fuck you, go vote for Trump.
Elie
@lethargytartare:
Not only are they huge, but they radiate wild energy. It is surprising that something in some people’s vestigial memory of wildness doesn’t tell them that they are not ok and to back down. They must believe that they are at Disneyworld or something… Beyond stupid. Sorry, I just don’t feel that sorry for them when they get tossed, gored or whatever.
In Hawaii my husband and I watched when time after time rangers had to keep people from walking into hot lava on the volcanoes or when they would be advised not to go by the place that that the lava flows into the sea — that those waves crashing into shore are boiling from the molten lava! A man and his son were killed during that week doing just that…. No situational awareness
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Bob In Portland:
But Trump being A-OK with Nazis is not a problem, eh?
Fuck you, go vote for Trump.
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
you’re a hack, Bob, and everyone knows it. why not go post on Downwithtyrrany? Is it too weird being the only commenter on your own blog?
Cacti
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
He will.
Gravie
I’ve been astonished at how increasingly cult-like the hardcore Bernie followers have become. Anyone who questions what they believe to be the absolute rightness of their candidate — no matter how much they’ve admired them in the past — is disavowed and denounced. This has now happened with Paul Krugman and Al Franken. Who’s next?
Miss Bianca
@Trollhattan: They are not quite as prevalent down here as they are on the Western Slope, but herds of dozens if not hundreds of elk are far from uncommon here in the mountain valleys. I remember my first morning waking up in the North Fork Valley in a studio apartment built into someone’s barn, looking out and seeing probably about 200 of them grazing in one of the farthest fields….thinking, “I am *so* not in Chicago anymore”.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Cacti: Oh, I know, I just want to start a movement of my own. Call it ‘The Only Thing Belligerent Assholes Deserve Is To Be Told Fuck You And Go Vote For Trump’ movement.
…. Nah, too long. I need something shorter and catchier.
Major Major Major Major
@Gravie: Charles Pierce.
And you forgot John Lewis.
gogol's wife
Okay testing, I’m going to see whether I can use Cyrillic in Firefox:
Золотистого меда струя из бутылки текла
gogol's wife
Interesting. Firefox will let me use Cyrillic, Chrome won’t.
lethargytartare
@Elie:
it triggers my vestigial memories, I’ll tell you that. When I worked there I was housed in some old cabins behind one of the lodges at Old Faithful, and Bison would lean against them at night when it was cold. I was late to work on more than one occasion because there was no way in hell I was going out that door.
My mom and I sometimes exchange videos of people getting chased/thrown by Bison for laughs. I mean, we totally feel bad about it right away, but still, the lulz!
Trollhattan
@Miss Bianca:
Will venture to guess inclusion in the top 10 list of “best mornings, evah!” Unless you really miss maneuvering slush on The Loop and the Cubs and summertime humidity. .
Michael Bersin
@lethargytartare:
Please, unpledged PLEO [party leader, elected official] delegates. Generally these include the Democratic governor of a state, the Democratic members of Congress in the state, the elected members of the DNC in a state, a former U.S. President (if a resident of the state), any former party nominee for President (if a resident of the state), any sitting Democratic President (if a resident of the state), any current or former Senate majority leader (if a resident of a state), any current or former Speaker of the House (if a resident of the state), and a few other like elected positions. There’s not a lot of room to arbitrarily appoint enough random corporate lobbyists that would make any significant difference in the overall result.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Mike J:
You’re missing one: already be a member of the DNC. Quite a few corporate lobbyists there to choose from.
AnotherBruce
@Cacti: I don’t doubt that for a minute. Too bad he can’t vote for Putin.
Miss Bianca
@Trollhattan:
HAHAHAHAHA *gasp wheeze* HAHAHAHA…no.
OK, *maybe* the Cubs. But I was really more a Tigers fan, so *definitely* not the White Sox!
Plus I got my doggie in the office with me right now, so life is definitely cooler in all sorts of ways in the mountains!
Gin & Tonic
@gogol’s wife: I did mine in Chrome. And on to the weightier case, I can see the case for genitive plural.
John D
@Bob In Portland:
I think it is finally time to call you on this. Prove it. Show me where DWS selected those delegates in particular.
I’ll give you a bit of a lead — you might want to look into the Charter & Bylaws of the Democratic Party. Specifically, Article II, Sections 4 and 5, and Article III, Section 2 of the Charter. I’ll let you explain how an elected DNC member from New York is the fault of DWS. Or one from California. Or one from Illinois. Or one from any other state.
Please, enlighten me.
Or, y’know, just continue being your usual full-of-shit self. Why should today be any different from any other day?
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Bob In Portland: Hey, we’ll cut a deal with whoever replaces your pal Vladimir’s charred corpse. Either they can get the fuck in line or get the same treatment. Repeat as necessary. Not everyone in Russia’s a fucking moron who thinks they’re a special snowflake.
You see, here’s the problem – not your strong suit, problems and solutions, so read carefully, refer to a dictionary if you have any issues with the big words. You do know how to use one, right? I know you do all your reading on the internet, but hey, they’ve got online dictionaries now, you can handle that, I’ll bet. Vlad’s bad for business and he’s expendable. The Ukrainians know how to do business. Maybe we’ll put one of them “in charge”. That was me being sarcastic, of course, we’d be in charge. Long as that person doesn’t mind taking orders from a woman I’d expect to have no problems. If not, well, lather, rinse, repeat.
And speaking of which, why are there on directions on shampoo bottles? Can’t be everyone’s as stupid as Bob here is.
FlipYrWhig
@Gravie: Remember how things turned out for Robespierre?
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Well that was different.
The Thin Black Duke
@AnotherBruce: Problem is, a vote for Trump is a vote for Putin.
Mike J
@Shawn in ShowMe: How do you think you become a member of the DNC?
First you get elected precinct captain. Then you get elected district chair. Then you get elected to the county party committee. Then you get elected to the state party committee. Then you get elected to the DNC.
Adam L Silverman
@gogol’s wife: I certainly don’t know. I looked up Moscow tech and copied and pasted the Russian in Cyrillic for that. Then I did the same for marmoset and just stuck that in front.
Adam L Silverman
@gogol’s wife: Is Imperialist American plot, no? (this comment needs to be read in the voice of Boris Badanov otherwise its just silly)
Adam L Silverman
@AnotherBruce: When I was 14 we went to Yellowstone. One one hike, on one of the breaks, my younger brother and I decided to go nosing around off the trail, but in view of my Dad. We got about 100 feet and there was a very large grizzly. We just backed out real nice and slow like.
lethargytartare
@Mike J:
I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that Sander’s supporters don’t actually know how superdelegates get selected, I mean, they barely understand how we pick our candidate for president. It’s still kind of galling.
Elie
@lethargytartare:
People do not realize the answer to the question: “What is the largest wild mammal in north America”. The answer is the Bison. Second is the moose. They are also not particularly good tempered and will stomp you without thinking twice…They are the fourth heaviest animal in the world — the top 4 are all in Africa – White Rhino, Hippo and Giraffe…
AnotherBruce
@The Thin Black Duke: Good point, I don’t know how I overlooked the abandoning NATO thing.
Elie
So, what process did Bernie use to become a Democratic Presidential candidate? Did he confer with any other Democratic leadership? Or did he just self select himself as a Democrat without making any promises or commitments to anything? Sure seems that way! I hear he has re-upped to run for the Senate as an independent…
His folks call Hillary a carpetbagger because of NY. I would say ol Bern is one too by that measure….Democrats need to remember this….
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
This. My family got mad at me a couple of years ago because I wasn’t excited about them clinching the division, but been there, done that. I’ll get excited once we actually manage to win the pennant.
AnotherBruce
@Adam L Silverman: I had something similar. I was hiking up deep in the Olympic Mountains on a foggy day. I suddenly (because fog) walked into the middle of about 6 or more Roosevelt elk. Which are the largest North American elk. Despite the closeness, they didn’t seem to notice me. I was um concerned but I remained calm and turned around as quietly as I could and went back the way I came. To me it’s a good memory. but it could have gone a bad way.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elie: elephants, African and Asian, no?
And I hope Pierce posts some of the comments he gets about his apostasy
Trollhattan
@Miss Bianca: .
I’m very pro-Colorado for anywhere not named Colorado Springs. (Although the eastern bit is too Nebraska-like for my druthers.) Have had amazing good times there, even that time Denver hit 18 below. That was rough on this California dweller.
AnotherBruce
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You can look at his facebook page for some of those comments. I advise that you don’t do this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elie: I was curious so I made a google– the internet is such a damn rabbit hole– but now I know that the white rhino is about twice the size of a black rhino, and that for some reason fascinates me.
Trollhattan
@AnotherBruce:
Far as I know the main time to be wary is rutting season, when the boys are all acting a bit nuts (and bugling like crazy). Hiked up the Elwah River a lot when I was a young’n and the elk herds were a reliable presence. Magnificent critters, also, too the mountain goats up in the alpine zones.
Trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Racist rhinos stealing all the rhino food.
nastybrutishntall
@Southern Beale: If all you have is a conspiracy to explain the inability to win of your Destiny of History incarnate, everything, no matter how tiny, becomes the next Exhibit A to get FB to go crazy. So the night of the week of a debate is just another brick in the wall, man.
DCF
Here’s the Thing So Many Americans Can’t Grasp About Bernie Sanders
The U.S. likes to brand itself ‘the land of opportunity’—yet our poster boys for innovation go to Harvard
http://observer.com/2016/04/heres-the-thing-so-many-americans-cant-grasp-about-bernie-sanders/
Debbie Wasserman Schultz Has Allowed Corporations To Take Over The DNC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Tap_nFnME
Chomsky: The Majority of Today’s Elected Democrats Are Moderate Republicans
According to Chomsky, America is a two-party state, “but there’s only one faction.”
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/chomsky-todays-democrats-are-moderate-republicans
AnotherBruce
@Trollhattan: I think rutting season is the autumn? Anyway I hiked there in May. Went to Enchanted Valley and spent 3 days. I was the only one there. Lots of Bears. I was really careful with my food and hung it on a bear wire in a dry bag. That seemed to work very well. I never had trouble with the bears. On the way out to the aforementioned hike I saw a mother and cub and took a wide turn away from them.
Ruckus
@lethargytartare:
Walking thru the center of the housing area of the south rim of the Grand Canyon settlement to go do my laundry and I almost ran into a very large bull elk. I say almost because I saw the kids playing outside their houses and they all very quietly and quickly walked away from where they were and as I turned back around to see why, about 15-20 feet in front of me was the elk. A magnificent animal, his shoulders were over my head, very obviously not one to fuck with. Being no dummy, I quickly followed the kids. Thought it was great that they had been taught so well, to respect the animals. And their own safety.
D58826
@Bob In Portland:
Then by all means kick Shaheen out of the senate. We certainly need one more Simon pure GOP senator who funds his campaigns from the money left by the tooth fairy under his kids pillows. Oh wait that would be stealing so it must be under his pillow.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: hmmm there has to be something in there that relates to the GOP.
burnspbesq
Wait until you see what happens when Bernie endorses Secretary Clinton.
D58826
Bit OT but the early word on the NTSB report on the Amtrak derailment last year is that the engineer was distracted by the radio chatter.
chopper
uh, democrats? i mean, this system isn’t new. yeah it’s the definition of ‘designed by a committee’. but it works well enough AS LONG AS YOU READ THE RULEBOOK. if you don’t and then bitch about how stupid it is because your guy who also didn’t read it got the shaft, you’re a fucking moron.
gogol's wife
@Adam L Silverman:
Yes, you didn’t reckon with the fact that it’s a highly inflected language.
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
And yet, Chomsky said today that the only rational choice is to vote for Hillary to block Trump from winning.
I guess Noam Chomsky is just another sell-out liberal now.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
If Cornel West surrenders, i’ma get really depressed.
grandpa john
@Davis X. Machina: Ahh yes , I remember the hillside firing range for navy ships. The ship I was statloned
on,(USS Noa, DD 841) ,Spent a couple of days there firing at old tanks that were scattered on the hillside, this was in 62 or 63, before the citizens who lived there started protesting against have part of there home island being constantly shelled.
The Noa was sometimes referred to as the astronaut ship because she was the ship that plucked John Glenn out of the water after his historic flight. this was before I came aboard however. several crew members with camera’s benefitted from this as there were no photographers on board , they were all on the Carrier that was designated tto pick him up.
Trollhattan
@AnotherBruce:
Yup, rut is in fall.
Few summers ago friends and I were backpacking Lassen Park and a small deer herd wandered into our camp (we camped in their wandering area, but I’m totally humancentric). Couple does with fawns and one buck. The rest wandered off but the buck stayed near us, scruffing and pawing and such to the point we named him Mister Stampy. Just a mule deer but between the horns and hooves we made sure to not rile him. Back in Lassen last summer, we had a camp hostess for most of three days. She rarely left.
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: Worse than that, Chomsky is now a DWS-enabler!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Bob In Portland:
What do they have in common, they’re members of the Democratic National Committee. Are they selected by DWS? NO, here’s how Wikipedia describes it:
Elie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah — my look up term was:
The Top 5 Heaviest Land Mammals on Earth
Mammal
Location
2 White Rhinoceros Africa
3 Hippopotamus Africa
4 Giraffe Africa
5 American Bison North America
Top 5 heaviest land mammals on earth.. Maybe pachyderms in separate category (?) but I agree, elephant needed to be top of the list in Africa and Asia…
BillinGlendaleCA
@AnotherBruce: When I first visited Yellowstone, people were still feeding the bears from their car windows.
patroclus
@BillinGlendaleCA: But that was way back when DWS was personally selecting all the Bears that could live in Yellowstone and personally selecting the Cubs’ manager.
Michael Bersin
@Mike J:
In Missouri (last time I checked) you get elected to the DNC by first spending a lot of time and effort either running for office and/or assisting other Democrats in running for office. Then you spend a lot of time helping the party by participating in its myriad functions and events locally and across the state. Then you run for one of the DNC slots at the state party convention (once every four years, coincidentally at the same party function where at-large delegates to the national presidential nominating convention are elected by county level delegates who remembered bother to show up after they bought the t-shirt and attended the rallies) and ask everyone in attendance to vote for you. By the way, DNC members attend all DNC meetings on their own dime.
Bob In Portland
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Why would I want to vote for Trump? He had the Clintons to his wedding.
AnotherBruce
@Trollhattan: I have to get out to Lassen. I hear it’s uncrowded and beautiful. Nice picture of the camp hostess.
Bob In Portland
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Well, I guess you’re a natural constituent of Hillary Clinton then. Granted, your little imagined fit of killing goes both ways. But hell, I’ve lived a good sixty-five years, why not leave the globe to the cockroaches? Any small wars or do you want the big one right away?
Trollhattan
@AnotherBruce:
Compared to other California National Parks Lassen really is untraveled, and most folks going there just drive up for the day. It’s on the southern end of the Cascade range so is geologically very different from the Sierra. A good two-fer trip would be Lassen and Crater Lake.
AnotherBruce
@Trollhattan: That whole area of Southern Oregon, Northern California is just far enough away from any large metro areas. It’s nice that there’s a few places out there that you can wander and explore without crowds.
Bob In Portland
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Oh yes, especially the bunch the US put in.
Congrats, you don’t feel the least bit conflicted about rooting for Nazis? Well, okay then, just another Villager here.
Tones
@Shawn in ShowMe: there is a reason people are not finding this to be acceptable – why they cannot run a candidate we want to vote for?
This is why.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Bob In Portland: Because he’s the perfect candidate for a beligerent asshole like yourself. Fuck you, go vote for Trump.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Tones: “Why aren’t they pandering to meeeeeee?”
agorabum
@JMG: I don’t think DWS has been very good as DNC head. But it’s important to note it is an elected position. She got the election. And just because the a lot of people aren’t fans of hers in that position, politicians don’t like to resign from anything because its an admission of failure.
What I’m getting at is no matter what folks inside the DNC may think about DWS after her performance, there’s not much to do but wait for her term to end. She’s a Clinton ally? Well, it was smart of Clinton to help get her elected. If Bernie hadn’t been outside the tent for so long, he might have had some influence on the DNC election back when it happened.
Bob In Portland
@BillinGlendaleCA: Are you trying to convince me that because they are members of the DNC that it’s good to have lobbyists for corporations running the Democratic Party? My god, you people are amazing.
We’ll get rid of private prisons by having private prison lobbyists on the DNC. Yeah, that’s the ticket. And sensible drug laws and an end to the drug war? Well, let’s put Shaheen’s hubby in there. What with all the oxycontin he peddles I’m sure we’ll solve this drug problem.
D58826
The GOP continues to waste tax payer money on chasing wild water fowl (fortunately the birds can out run the Goopers). The House will hold a hearing on the interview by Ben Rhodes a week or so ago. They are already angry that Rhodes will not appear so they can publicly boil him in oil. The first witness is a former Chaney aid – John Hannah – who pushed the discredited Saddam/Osma link in 2003.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/16/1527098/-Cheney-aide-who-helped-spread-bogus-info-on-Iraq-will-be-prime-GOP-witness-at-hearing-on-Iran
But they will economize by giving Obama only 1/3rd of the money he asked for to fight the Zika virus.
But a win for the good people at Scotus today:
Clarence of course dissented. He said that the judicial doctrine of giving executive agencies deference is dying. For a judge that claims to be opposed to judicial activism he sure seems to want to second guess the executive branch.
http://www.dailykos.com/
Mnemosyne
@Bob In Portland:
So weird that the Soviet Union refused to investigate its citizens for war crimes during World War 2. I can’t imagine why that decision was made, can you?
Or did you post that forgetting that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union until 50 years AFTER the war?
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Funny how you didn’t quote the part of that same Wikipedia article where it says:
I’m sure you were just pressed for time.
Tones
@lethargytartare: wow , there it is..
So , Down with Tyranny haters here then?
now it makes sense.
If you read that site and its meticulously foot-noted research, you could not delude yourselves into thinking Hillary is a democrat.
She never has been, and still isn’t.
Sorry.
Bob In Portland
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016:
No, he and the Clintons are of the same social milieu. Accept it. Enjoy it. Looks like you’ve got thing wrapped up. All’s well. Someone from Trump’s wedding reception will be your next president. And the corporate lobbyists will be well-represented no matter who wins.
But who’s being belligerent here? I point out that these superdelegates are corporate lobbyists. And they are. Do you have a problem with corporate lobbyists being superdelegates? Do you find it demeaning to lobbyists to actually mention this? Why are you so angry? You’ve got your candidate on the path to the White House. So what if less than half the people in the US like and trust her? She’s got the delegates, she’s got the superdelegates. She’s got Balloon Juice Town all locked up. Should be great.
Cacti
Bernie supporter Lucy Flores weighs in on the “revolutionary” antics of the Nevada BernieBros
Mike J
@Michael Bersin: All fo the steps I mentioned were in service of working to elect Democrats. Of course you’re not required to be a precinct captain, but it is a first step that people often take in politics.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Bob In Portland: Good job not responding to a single thing I wrote. Par for the course, Comrade Bob.
Bob In Portland
@lethargytartare: Speechwriter for Melvin Laird?
DCF
@Mnemosyne:
Yes…he said that people should ‘…hold their noses…’ and vote for the (likely) Democratic Presidential nominee ‘…in swing states…’
My guess is that you’ll inhale the sweet (to you) fragrance of neoliberalism and smile broadly as you pull the lever for the corporatist/establishment candidate.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne: You mean that the Soviets didn’t investigate the traitors who collaborated with the Nazis and killed a million Jews and a whole bunch more Slavs? I suspect there was an investigation, don’t you? Granted, a lot of them hightailed it west and were imported into the US. Why, Russ Bellant did an investigation of Ukrainians the US imported after the war. Should I provide you with the link again? Okay, here. I suppose you’ll read it this time, won’t you?
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
Yes, and? He’s still telling people to vote for her over Trump.
But you go ahead and reassure yourself that you’re a better leftist than Chomsky since he’s willing to hold his nose and you’re not.
patroclus
@BillinGlendaleCA: Today is one of his worst days. He blatantly lied about DWS personally selecting members of the DNC, he got called on it, and he just moved on. Then he called all Democrats Nazi-supporters, after he blatantly lied about supposed money laundering that doesn’t exist. Weeks ago, he blatantly lied about Hillary supporting the 2009 Honduran coup when she – in fact – supported the 2010 settlement. Blatant lies are his stock in trade. I’m giving up on trying to converse with him. He’s doing all he can to get Trump elected, by presenting himself as a faux-leftist who supposedly opposes Trump. He rarely, if ever, talks issues anymore. It’s just lie after lie after lie. I used to think you guys were too hard on him; I guess I was wrong.
Mnemosyne
@Bob In Portland:
I’d love to see your link to Soviet trials of Holocaust perpetrators. Let’s have it.
DCF
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve already stated that I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee…given how low the Trumpenstein has set the bar, Chomsky’s advice is far from a ringing endorsement of a deeply-flawed Republicrat….
Cacti
@patroclus:
Yep, you figured it out.
BIP is a Kremlin bot. He’ll be voting for Drumpf in November in the hopes that it will get Novorossiya a shiny new Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, aka the part of “The Great Patriotic War” that Soviet revanchists don’t like to talk about.
Bob In Portland
@BillinGlendaleCA: Maybe I lost your post in all the fuck yous the open-minded good people of Balloon Juice Town tossed at me.
What was your question again? Should the Democratic Party be riddled with corporate lobbyists? I’d say no because lobbyists represent interests that often conflict with the interests of people who are supposed to be the constituency of the Democratic Party.
Is that what you wanted? Glad to help out.
Chyron HR
@Tones:
It’s hard to believe Bernie could lose with people like you in his braintrust.
Chyron HR
I asked this open question of our resident Bernie Boosters a month ago and mysteriously got no answer, so I’ll try again:
Assuming for the sake of argument that your all-consuming hatred of Hillary Clinton disqualifies her from the Presidency, what do you expect the people on this site to do about it?
Cacti
Chomsky says: Most of Today’s Democrats are moderate Republicans.
Other things Chomsky has previously said: Pol Pot is a decent guy and charges of Cambodian genocide are overblown.
DCF
@patroclus:
Wrong again…HRC supported the military coup in Honduras, and the money laundering (via the DNC and Debbie ‘payday lender’ Wasserman-Schultz) is well documented….
And that’s not including the pay-for-play nature of the Clinton Foundation, which – despite the good it has done for children and women worldwide – also serves as a vehicle for influence-peddling and leveraged support….
patroclus
@DCF: Good, to stop Trump, we need all the votes we can get, enthusiastic or not. Chomsky’s was far from a ringing endorsement, but it is an endorsement nonetheless. If even Chomsky is going to vote for Hillary, other leftists should take note. It’s that important. Trump wants to deport 11 million people, including children. Trump wants to establish religious tests for entry into the U.S. Trump wants to wage war on virtually every mid-east country. Trump wants to destroy women’s liberty. Trump wants to spend billions for a useless wall. Trump calls Hispanics rapists and murderers. Trump wants to repeal health insurance. The list goes on – he is truly fascistic.
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
Oh, yes, “Republicrat.” I remember that from 2000, when everyone told us it didn’t matter if Bush or Gore got elected, because they would do the exact same things once in office. How did that work out for all of us, again? You can focus your answer just on how it affected the people of Iraq and New Orleans if you’re pressed for space.
“Republicrats” is one of those words that marks you as a fucking idiot who doesn’t give a shit about other people so, yes, I fully expect you to vote for Trump in November because, unlike Noam Chomsky, you are obviously too stupid to tell the difference between what Hillary Clinton would do as president and what Donald Trump would do.
Bob In Portland
@Cacti: Oh yeah, Hillary knew nothing about the coup in Honduras. And considering the business as usual way the State Department reacted I’m guessing it may have taken her months to notice the coup.
You folks who think that she wasn’t in on the coup in Honduras are deluding yourselves. But that’s your option.
Money-laundering? The article’s headline is: 33 state Democratic parties launder $26M from millionaires for Hillary
I don’t ever recall “calling all Democrats Nazi supporters.” I said the US has supported Ukrainian Nazis for seventy years, and actually, until the Clintons reached the White House it was mostly only Republicans who supported those Nazis. Here, I’ll post the article again, because it’s obvious that after two years you still haven’t read the article. Why, you’d think you wanted to remain in ignorance. You go read the article and figure out what it says and then come back and we’ll talk about it.
Hey, can’t wait for the Warriors game tonight. Should be fun.
patroclus
@DCF: Nope, all analysts, including the one’s Bob cited, concluded “that there was no confirmation that Hillary had any prior knowledge of the Honduran coup.” Zelaya had called a referendum, which the Honduran courts rejected, and he then fired the general staff of the military for refusing to disobey the court order. Then, the Hondurans themselves initiated the coup, flying Zelaya to Costa Rica, and the Honduran legislature impeached him. The State Department, working through the OAS, helped negotiate the settlement, which is now 2 free and fair elections ago. Even Zelaya, who’s wife competed for the presidency last year, does not claim that the U.S. was involved, except in the settlement. You are misinformed. First, I suggest that you read the wiki summary and then the State Department summary, both of which are available on-line. I’ve been to Honduras, I know many fiends there – no one claims U.S. foreknowledge or involvement. Not the Liberals; not the third party which Zelaya later formed.
Bob In Portland
@patroclus:
Obama has deported the most people of any president. To include children. Is threatening to deport children worse than deporting children? And I haven’t checked lately, what’s Hillary’s current position on deporting children, you know, like the ones fleeing Honduras?
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: Yeah, she was in the dark. What a surprise.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: You’re a bald-faced liar – there is no point in talking to you anymore.
Gin & Tonic
@patroclus: It’s always been like that.
The thing that fascinates me, since I know quite a lot about the subject, is his obsession with Ukraine. I don’t go so far as others to claim he’s a paid troll, but he is unnaturally obsessed with a country he has never visited, doesn’t know the language(s) of and doesn’t, apparently know any residents of. Given those deficits, he relies solely on a limited set of biased second-hand and third-hand reports from people who almost certainly do contain either paid trolls or those more extensively on the RF’s payroll. It’s a fairly typical sort of superannuated leftist who was a supporter of the USSR back in the day, since that was “revolutionary” and who seamlessly morphed into a supporter of the present-day autocracy that is the Russian Federation. He tosses around terms that are used by a very limited group of people, as if knowing their implications, but the vast majority of the people who use those terms were participants or allies of participants in events Bob knows nothing about, and have been grinding axes or settling scores for the last 65 years. To have a retired postal worker from Portland with no known connection to those people or events using those terms is really dissonant.
Yet in the supposed “anti-fascist” motivation, you never hear a word about Hungary, or Poland, or any of the current very worrisome rightist trends in Eastern Europe. Like I said, a weird obsession.
DCF
@Chyron HR:
Here’s your answer: Acknowledge that HRC is a deeply-flawed candidate whose tepid incrementalism and ‘lead from behind’, poll-driven policy positions were perhaps best described by John Stewart when he characterized her as ‘…a very bright woman without the courage of her convictions, because I’m not even sure what they are…’:
Go to 26:30 at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da5VYSPsoE0
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: You’re a bald-faced liar. There is no point on talking to you anymore2.
Ruckus
@AnotherBruce:
Lassen is sort of out of the way for most people and so is/was not heavily visited. I haven’t been in a number of years but always thought that it is a great national park. Not flashy like jellystone, but very nicely done and a great place to see.
BillinGlendaleCA
@patroclus:
That typo* made me laugh.
ETA: *Or maybe it wasn’t?.
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
Why bother? You’re just going to vote for Trump anyway, because you’re convinced that they’ll both do the same things in office. There’s no point in trying to convince you, because you’ve already made up your mind. You’ll pretend to dither and then do what you always planned to do anyway, which is vote for Trump.
DCF
@patroclus:
Wrong – again:
Washington Post Attacks Clinton’s Role in Honduran Coup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6g5LvFzJqI
“She’s Baldly Lying”: Dana Frank Responds to Hillary Clinton’s Defense of Her Role in Honduras Coup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS-tDVwSHlA
hamletta
Jon Ralston (esteemed NV political reporter) has a blog post with a few of the voicemail messages left for the NVDP chair by enraged Berniebots.
I didn’t listen to them, because I didn’t want to pollute my beautiful mind, but have at it, if you’re so inclined.
patroclus
@Gin & Tonic: I’ve been to the Ukraine, although I can’t claim to know all that much about it. I was in a jazz band and we went to Kharkov, Kiev and Odessa and got to know a lot of young people, who are absolutely hilarious (Think “Everything is Illuminated” and Gogol Bordello). I haven’t read all the various pro-Russian sites that Bob apparently has, but it seems to me that he has really absorbed a lot of drivel from them; especially the use of various terms that date back to 1930’s-1940’s era stuff. To me, his weirdest stuff is about Honduras, which I do know something about. To claim U.S. involvement in the Honduran-only coup is just bizarre! It was part of the allegations that were floating around in 2009, but after Zelaya signed on to the settlement, led by the U.S. and OAS, it has disappeared because it wasn’t true. No one claims it now – not even Bernie.
patroclus
@DCF: Wrong again. Read the sites I directed to you before you try again.
patroclus
@BillinGlendaleCA: Who says it was a typo?
Gin & Tonic
@patroclus: Did you visit after independence? Just curious.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
I know this will come as a shock to you (not) but that Nation article he keeps posting doesn’t actually say what he claims it says. The specific focus of the article is on Ukraine, but the interviewee emphasizes multiple times that he’s talking about Nazi collaborators across Eastern Europe, not just Ukraine. Ukraine isn’t even particularly special in his book, and yet it’s Bob’s obsessive focus.
BillinGlendaleCA
@patroclus: I amended my comment.
lethargytartare
@Tones:
I’m guessing your’re the other front pager there. Do you guys comment on each other’s articles to stave off the loneliness?
DCF
@Mnemosyne:
Listen, you myopic neoliberal fool…I will vote against Trump, not for HRC…when you manage to extract yourself from the paralyzing fear(s) that drive you – should that ever occur – you may be able to muster enough courage to remove your rose-tinted glasses and see ‘The Empress’ for who/what she truly is….
I won’t hold my breath….
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Comrade Bob would lead us astray? Say it ain’t so!
Ruckus
@patroclus:
As G&T said, it has always been thus. BiP is useless to discuss anything with, because he doesn’t want a discussion, he wants a commendation for knowing everything, which his proof of is showing that he knows lots of nothing.
Best advice? Never play along. It’s time out of your life that you will never get back. There are a few others on BJ, some even on this thread who fall into the same category. Engage them at your own digression, but it will always be a negative experience for you.
patroclus
@Gin & Tonic: No, 1979. They were then “celebrating” 635 years of Russian-Ukrainian solidarity. But the people themselves were quite independent and were chafing for freedom. They loved everything about jazz and rock music and America and freedom. We were quite literally rock stars there – just a few months after Elton John had been there (and was essentially the first real star there). And we were just college kids.
BillinGlendaleCA
@DCF:
Wow, you sure know how to make friends and influence people.
LanceThruster
I think everyone makes an attempt to ‘work the refs,’ successful or not.
Bernie 2016!
patroclus
@BillinGlendaleCA: It was actually a typo – no need for the amendment.
@Ruckus: I’m not playing anymore. His bald-faced whoppers today were just too much.
DCF
@patroclus:
You didn’t post any site links – Idid…try reading/viewing them….
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: I find that snark directed at them is somewhat self satisfying.
Jack the Second
@Bob In Portland: Checking your math, only two of those five (Dowdell and Berman) are “Members at Large”, ie, DNC members selected by the Chairman (DWS) and approved by the full committee. The rest are state DNC members, ie, the state committees (which DWS has nothing to do with) elected them.
All Democratic Senators (47) and all Democratic Representatives (193) are also superdelegates, compared to the 75 at-large members whom past or present Chairpersons have selected. Of those … 2 Senators and 9 Representatives have endorsed their colleague Bernie Sanders.
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
And what do you expect me to do if I see “The Empress” the way you do? Sit out the election? Vote for Trump? What is your plan, exactly?
lethargytartare
@Bob In Portland:
your guilt by association schtick is boring, Bob. We had enough of that in 1994. Still waiting for you to list all the jobs and industries that disqualify people from being democrats. Is there an income cutoff?
Also, please immediately provide the CV for all Bernie Sanders’ superdelegates, campaign workers, and endorsers. Because clearly if 5 out of 715 party bigwigs being in any remote way associated with lobbying for businesses you disapprove of means the Democratic party is corrupt to the core, if Bernie has even 1 you’ll have to acknowledge he’s worse than Petro Poroshenko.
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
It’s especially funny since I am literally myopic. This may finally be LASIK Year.
BillinGlendaleCA
@DCF:
I read it on the internet, it must be true!
patroclus
@DCF: Wrong again. Please read the wiki site (just google 2009 Honduran coup) and the State Department summary before trying again. You posted an extremely dated youtube clip. I’m not typing a summary again – I tried multitudinous times with Bob and he ignored every single one of them.
Ruckus
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Yes to snark, which is always for our own amusement anyway. Or the odd Fuck Off Asshole. But trying to have a discussion? Not worth whatever the lowest denomination of money there is in the universe. Or a bucket of warm spit, which ever is worth less.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: I’m myopic as well, I always wear contacts when I go out in public. I’m at home now, so I’m wearing my bifocals*.
ETA: *Makes me ice floe eligible☺!
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic:
No, the trend to reactionary politics in Europe is predictable. In fact, if you read the articles in Covert Action Information Bulletin back in the 80s and 90s you could point to them.
Here’s a list of articles in one issue:
I realize that you folks are 25 years late, soon to be thirty years late, to this information. But it was available a long time ago, so all I can say is that it’s up to you to keep up.
I spent a lot of time around here two years ago pointing out the rise of fascism in Ukraine, precisely because the villagers here denied it. I’m not that obsessed with Ukraine. The oligarchs and the Nazis have pretty much ruined it for the rest of our lives. There’s Libya to worry about, and Syria and Iraq. Who knows? Maybe the US will put in combat troops in all of these countries. Whatever.
You read the article, right Gin? Do you have any particular criticism of the article? This article.
DCF
@patroclus:
Now there is a reliable internet source! Why don’t you go to ‘Wiki’ and edit it to reflect what you believe – irrespective of the facts.
patroclus
@DCF: Wrong again. Please read the State Department summary and the wiki site to which you have been pointed to multiple times. There are additional cites there for further reading. Given that you keep replying without even attempting to read up on the subject, why should I type it all out yet again?
burnspbesq
@DCF:
And what’s your plan? Stand idly by and watch as the country goes through the looking-glass into Fascism?
DCF
@Mnemosyne:
Vote for HRC, since once again we enter an election cycle where we are forced to vote against a candidate (Trump) rather than for one….
Bob In Portland
@Ruckus: What do you want to discuss? I apparently do know a lot more about certain subjects than many of the villagers here. By the way, have you gotten around to reading the article I posted a couple years ago about the US’ relationship with Ukrainian fascists as part of the coup? Right here. You should read it.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Very highly recommended from this pre LASIK procedure person. Best thing I’ve ever done for myself. Had PRK, LASIK was just being introduced to the US. LASIK has much faster healing times but even PRK was far, far better than glasses/contacts/effectively blind.
Ruckus
@patroclus:
Your Honor, I rest my case.
burnspbesq
@DCF:
Would you mind sharing with us your analysis, under applicable priciples of Honduran constitutional law, how the removal of the then President, who was actually the one attempting to overthrow the country by military coup, was improper?
You should really try to get your facts straight.
DCF
@burnspbesq:
No… I expect I’ll have to vote for sustaining an oligarchy in this Second Gilded Age of corporate consolidation and reject fascism, rather than embrace the sweeping changes(s) possible through social democratic positions – you know, like much of the rest of the Western industrialized world….
Mnemosyne
@Bob In Portland:
Just when I think you can’t get any less self-aware, you prove me wrong once again. It’s amazing, really.
PatrickG
@patroclus:
Honestly, this should just be an automatic response from everyone to BiP. I really don’t know why people bother engaging with such a flagrantly bad-faith actor.
Gin & Tonic
@patroclus: Wow, 1979. It was pretty, um, gray then.
PatrickG
@Mnemosyne:
My partner got LASIK a few years ago, after realizing she couldn’t accurately read street names at stoplights. Now she taunts me by reading highway signs from five miles away*. Only downside is some slight nighttime light blurring.
* May be slightly exaggerated for effect.
burnspbesq
@DCF:
You tried. Your guy was overwhelmingly rejected by the party he tried to hijack. You’re welcome to try again any time you can come up with a viable candidate.
Bob In Portland
Now that the villagers of Balloon Juice Town have carefully vetted the superdelegates, let’s move on to the Host Committee for the Democratic Convention:
Anyone who gives money to Orin Hatch can’t be all bad, can he? Debbie says he’s okay because he won’t be lobbying.
Mnemosyne
@DCF:
So what are you bitching about, then? You don’t have to be happy about it. Put on your big boy pants and eat your spinach.
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq: A party of lobbyists. Heh heh heh. Is Lee Iacocca still around?
Mnemosyne
@PatrickG:
I’ve been wearing glasses since I was 6 years old, so the prospect of going without them is more than a little weird. It’s my image!
But if Tina Fey can forego her glasses, I suppose I can, too.
PatrickG
@Mnemosyne:
Tina Fey is an inspiration for us all. :)
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: I have read that article, and I have critiqued it. I don’t feel like doing so again, as it’s a waste of my time, and eventually you’ll just call me a Nazi again.
But tell me, you demean Snyder, have you read any of his books? You often criticize commenters here for not reading the sources you provide and call them blinkered. Do you read sources you disagree with? Have you read Conquest? Applebaum? I doubt it.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
I’m sorry, you just crossed a line there. I am forced to defend his/her fundamental human right to not eat spinach. Vile shit. I’ll eat all the broccoli and asparagus you put in front of me, but some principles can never be sacrificed.
patroclus
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah, no advertising or any other signage. No consumer goods – I sold a couple pair of blue jeans. No mass communication. Only antiquated Soviet-style buildings, with heating (and elevators) that barely worked. Our music was a Godsend – they had, quite literally, never heard anything remotely like it. They went berserk over it! Everyone wanted to have a party with us; everyone wanted to be hospitable. Even our (much more worldly) Russian guides were amazed. For two weeks or so, we were a Ukranian cultural phenomenom. I’ve never been back to Ukraine, but I have been back to Russia and Poland and it’s quite different now. Poland is like a Western European country now; I suspect Kiev and Kharkov too.
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: It’s good raw in a salad or slightly wilted in a salad.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
I wore glasses/contacts (went from hard to soft to disposable as each became available) from when I was 12, till I was 47. Yes it felt weird to not need them. For about a month. It is better not to need them. Much better.
burnspbesq
@Bob In Portland:
If you’d care to explain the mechanism(s) by which the host committee can influence the course of the convention, I’m sure we will carefully and objectively evaluate your submission.
Really.
Jack the Second
Jesus fucking Christ.
Fine, every last superdelegate and member of the DNC is a corrupt sycophant, right down to Jimmy Carter.
You know how you fix that? It isn’t by electing a savior like Bernie Sanders or bitching about it on the internet. Go become a member of your state’s delegation to the DNC. Go become an active, dependable, and beloved member of your local committee, be elected to the county, state, and national committees, and when you get there vote DWS out as chair.
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq: There is never any connection between money and politics. I learned that here at Balloon Juice.
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
What about brussel sprouts? Spinach is akin to Haagen Dazs compared to those little morsels of disgust.
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: You don’t deny that the US imported Ukrainian fascists into the US after WWII. Right?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s good with cheese, lots of cheese*.
*Cheese makes everything better.
SFAW
@gogol’s wife:
That’s because you’re thinking in Russian. (Sorry, obscure Eastwood movie ref, or perhaps obscure ref to an Eastwood movie).
burnspbesq
@Ruckus:
Brussels sprouts are useful as weapons.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: Firefox?
Cacti
@Jack the Second:
Bernie is also a superdelegate and therefore, must be corrupt.
Stone the false messiah!
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Except football.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
Of course.
patroclus
@Jack the Second: That’s certainly good advice – especially to those Nevadans who thought they could be delegates to a state democratic convention without even bothering to be members of the Democratic party.
SFAW
@burnspbesq:
The way I cook ’em, that’s for damn sure.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: Ahem.
burnspbesq
@Cacti:
The Credentials Committee refusing to seat him because he’s not a Democrat could be the highlight of the convention.
Gin & Tonic
A little bit lighter news, since Ukraine has been mentioned. Here is video of the Antonov-225 landing in Perth. The world’s largest airplane. At about 0:50 in the video it quickly passes by a normal jet for size comparison.
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Answer my questions first.
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
True but you almost have to get someone to eat them for that and most people over the age of 7-9 know that trick.
@SFAW:
Are we talking physical or noxious or poisonous? Or a combination?
MattF
@Mnemosyne: I’ll join the chorus in support of laser eye procedures. This stuff really works and the ophthalmologists actually do know what they’re doing, whether it’s LASIK or more serious surgery. It’s true that there’s a huge wait-a-minute-here factor in doing things to your eyes, as well as a ewww factor and I’m completely sympathetic with that. But it really does work.
burnspbesq
@Ruckus:
Pro-jec-tiles.
BillinGlendaleCA
@MattF:
Well, and the cost.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
What? Are you a Packers fan or something?
[My original comment was solely for your “benefit,” I hope you realize. And it helps keep me from getting into a comment fight with Boob about whether anyone other than Bernie and Vlad is sufficiently pure to meet Boob’s criteria. I eagerly await Boob telling us that Iosif Vissarionovich was a great guy because he killed Nazis, and wasn’t a lobbyist for Big Pharma.]
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
A successful story, and not about me! A friend who most of his life wore coke bottle bottom glasses got LASIK, from the same Dr, about 6-8 months after my surgery. While mine had to be done one eye at a time 30 days apart to insure healing before doing the second eye, his was done both eyes at the same time and his eye sight in 4 days was better than mine was in 10 days. And then I had to go through the same thing all over with the other eye. It was still well worth it.
MattF
@BillinGlendaleCA: True that. Not covered by insurance.
SFAW
@Ruckus:
All of them, Katie.
ETA: Plus as projectiles, as burnspbesq has pointed out.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: I recognized the slow hanging curveball.
J R in WV
@Jeffro:
We visited Yellowstone back in 1991 or so, a great vacation trip. The park is full of those park signs, etched into dark wood with yellow paint in the engraved letters, Spitting Up Geyser, or such. Tacked onto each sign was a printed out sign on white office paper, sealed into plastic.
It told of how every season, people are killed, trampled down, by buffalo / bison. They look totally serene, standing there looking at the tourists. They can bolt into 30 mph instantly, and stomp several people into the ground just as quickly. We were following a trail around a low hill, and saw interesting features, like a mud pot deep into the ground, belching hot steam into the air every 15 or 20 seconds. We walked on around the hill, and there was the parking lot, with our rental Ford in it.
And a Bison standing right by the trail. And all the signs and rangers tell you not to stray off the trail or boardwalk, as the ground can be a thin shell with boiling water right under.
We turned around, and walked to the parking lot the long way, and didn’t have to pass by a Buffalo.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
I was kind of hoping you would.
Now, if I had a curve like Strasburg’s last year, you woulda whiffed.
Ruckus
@MattF:
Bonus points here. Mine was covered by insurance. Dr said only two companies in the state covered corrective eye surgery. Honda and the one I worked for. A yr later there was only one as my companies insurance took that away, after having to actually pay for 3 or 4 people getting it done. We paid the deductible, $200/yr.
J R in WV
@Bob In Portland:
Pain Centers exist to treat pain. How are they not going to be heavy prescribers of pain medication? People do have broken spines, cancer, chronic diseases that cause terrible pain. Are they just supposed to shut the Fuq up and take it?
And if his spouse is a Senator, well, they get to go to the Party party together, pretty common. I noticed that on the Republican ballot here most of the candidates were husband and wife pairs. So where’s the corruption??
J R in WV
@Trollhattan:
The coldest chill we’ve had here in SW West Virginia was -27 F – in that range several times. Not standard by any means, but it isn’t even up in the mountains here – about 800 feet above sea level. Very broken and steep, narrow hollows and ridges, but not high. The tallest ridge around in only about 1200 feet.
So 18 below doesn’t impress a bit.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: Is that real temp or wind chill?
J R in WV
@burnspbesq:
But, but, Saag !! Indian cuisine does wonderful things with that green stuff !!
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: You actually saw a grizzly?
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
It was as still as a freezer compartment. No wind, the eve vents of our house (very tight) had long ice crystals hanging from them in the morning, barely moving. When I blew down the side of the house, about 15 feet of them shattered and fell. Snow too, but powder, like in the mountains.
Amazing arctic air mass moved in in the early evening and settled in for a 3 or 4 day stay. And our gas froze off that day, the local guys got it back on just before dark. It dropped from 60ish inside to 53 by then. There was a low spot in the line where petroleum condensate accumulated – our gas here is well head stuff, not treated or conditioned. When the cold penetrated down to that part of the line, the condensate thickened until the low line pressure couldn’t bubble through any more.
The joys of rural living!
On another topic, do you all suppose we could do a psychological evaluation of Beip in Portland? That could be revealing, and amusing at the same time. And, for bonus points, perhaps it would make him go away!
Ukrainian Nazis, as if we didn’t import enough German’s already! Like it was big news that pre-WW II and post-WW II were times of horror virtually the world over, why it was a world war, innit? And still is some places? Idiot…
Miss Bianca
@Ruckus: *waves paw feebly* I like brussels sprouts…tho’ not till I learned to cook them properly. The way my mother boiled them into grey globs that resembled soggy balls of Kleenex did make them seem rather appalling.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: A real -27 qualifies as cold even for a Wisconsin boy.
BiP is reasonably intelligent. He reads a lot. He does not have conventional educational achievements.* He resents that. He has a theory that that explains all and he glories in the fact that his theory makes him better than the eggheads.
*I am not bagging on people without degrees or those without advanced degrees. Lots of people in that category are smart, knowledgeable, and successful.
The Blog Dahlia
@Bob In Portland
BWA HAH HAH, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read all week! Keep ’em coming, blob-butt. I wanna larf after this long-ass day.
The Blog Dahlia
@Omnes Omnibus:
That attitude reminds me a lot of McBanned.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Blog Dahlia: Yes.
Bob In Portland
Let’s see if this link works. It will take you to an issue of Covert Action Information Bulletin from 1990. Here.
Bob In Portland
@Omnes Omnibus: You’re not absolutely wrong regarding my lack of education. I finished my college in five semesters, mostly because I wanted to get out of New Jersey. I’ve spent my life in blue collar jobs and I have a strong desire for economic justice. I have been anti-war since high school. And I do read.
As I said in my post above, I came across a photocopy of a 1990 issue of Covert Action Information Bulletin, much of it written by dissenting ex-CIA agents like Philip Agee. This particular issue has a number of articles that would help anyone here to understand where I’m coming from. I realize that there is a core of people here who just want to bully someone with a different opinion, and others who are intellectually afraid of reading something that might threaten their view of the world. However, there is basic information here that will help those who wish to understand what has been going on in Eastern Europe, and the US’s continual war against the former Soviet Union. Oglesby’s “The Treaty of Fort Hunt” is there, as are articles about the NED and the Free Congress Foundation (not to be confused with the CIA’s 1950s importation of Nazis, called the Congress For Freedom).
Again, this is information that was readily available in 1990 by merely walking into a bookstore and purchasing a copy.
I encourage the more inquisitive here to read it.
Bob In Portland
@Omnes Omnibus: Also, I what you suggest is resentment of those here trying dismiss me by bludgeoning me their education and bona fides is rather annoyance. Reading Thomas Frank’s book Listen, Liberal actually goes a long way to explaining why. It also explains why we have different candidates in this primary. Unfortunately, most readers here don’t want to understand why, so it will remain a mystery in the village of Balloon Juice.
Still, for those who are the least bit curious about the Sanders movement, the disgust with Clinton and her politics et al, it would be illuminating.
Bob In Portland
@J R in WV: Where do you think that oxycontin fits in the Democratic platform?
Well, many of us think that marijuana should be removed from the US’s drug list. Sanders believes so too. Clinton wants marijuana to remain illegal. There was recently a mass killing of a family (in Indiana or Kentucky) that dealt in meth and marijuana. At least as far as marijuana, that doesn’t happen in states where it is legalized. Medical marijuana has been effective, often more effective than opiods, in pain relief. States where marijuana is legalized have half the opiod overdoses.
As has been reported, a high percentage of people swept up in the recent heroin epidemic have gotten addicted first to prescribed opiates like oxycontin. Pain Centers is connected to the overprescription of oxycontin in New England.
In essence, what someone like Shaheen wants is a good business climate for his employer. Legalizing marijuana nationally would put a big crimp in the demand for opiates. Marijuana grows in the backyard and while there is plenty of profit to be made its control in an economic sense is hard. I grew a plant last year. It’s very simple, like growing a weed. Marijuana is to oxycontin what petroleum is to sunlight. Sunlight is ubiquitous, petroleum is a product that needs an entire industry to put it to use, thus more controllable and more profitable.
In short, when you look at lobbyists working with the Democratic Party you have to ask how they benefit from their support of their candidates. Obviously, Clinton would continue to keep marijuana illegal. It helps with her more reactionary support, but it also keeps another spigot from Big Pharma open to her coffers.
Bob In Portland
@Ruckus: Are you offended that I actually know some things you don’t? A true intellectual would read his opponent’s sources if only to refute them.
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: Patroclus calls me a bald-faced liar for saying that Obama is the deporter in chief, deporting more people than any other president.
Here.
And here.
This was in response to Patroclus’ fear of Trump deporting eleven million people. It is fiscally impossible for Trump to create a system that will deport eleven million people.
However, as I’ve pointed out in the links above, at least for now Obama is the president with the most deportations on his record, so if deporting undocumented people is bad, then isn’t Obama in reality overseeing and allowing a lot of bad in the deportation department?
Also, I’m not sure why Patroclus called me a liar. Surely, when he wrote that he must have known about Obama’s record with deportations.
In any case, when we discuss lobbyists on the DNC we can choose, for example, to look at Emily Giske and her work for gay rights in New York City and ignore her work as a lobbyist for Airbnb, Yum Brands (the parent company of Taco Bell), Pfizer, and the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, a trade group for Wall Street firms such as Goldman Sachs, Fidelity, and Bank of America. I think that it is foolish to ignore how a person makes his or her money when examining motives for insinuating oneself in the political process. Saying that Giske is a lobbyist is not a lie. Did Giske help Clinton to recognize the right of gays to marry? I don’t know. Do you think a lobbyist with connections to Goldman Sachs, Fidelity and Bank of America wouldn’t use her position within the DNC to push for positions and proposals that benefit her employers? I do. I don’t think that that is an unreasonable belief.
Perhaps Patroclus can further define what he means by me lying.