Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Nothing worth doing is easy.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

I did not have this on my fuck 2024 bingo card.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

The willow is too close to the house.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. Do not congratulate. This is not business as usual.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Giving up is unforgivable. ~Joe Biden

“Loving your country does not mean lying about it’s history.”

T R E 4 5 O N

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Hillary Clinton 2016 / Open Thread: Wise Words from Oliver Willis

Open Thread: Wise Words from Oliver Willis

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245Comments

  1. 1.

    joel hanes

    Again, AL, thanks for the Oliver Willis shout-outs.

    He’s a good ‘un, insightful, and too little read.

  2. 2.

    gogol's wife

    Amen to Mr. Willis.

    I really shouldn’t read the NYTimes for the duration of the campaign. Today they had a “Dems in disarray” headline.

  3. 3.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    I must start following Willis; he is concise and precise.

  5. 5.

    Mnemosyne

    Apropos of nothing, I finally succumbed to the fad and bought a coloring book and some colored pencils tonight. I feel like such a sucker.

  11. 11.

    SiubhanDuinne

    A little (only a little) O/T:

    Why is it that in 2008, candidate Barack Obama was forced to spend weeks, weeks, and a major speech, denouncing the pastor of his church for remarks (which actually made some sense in context), remarks which were played on an endless loop on cable and network TV — and yet, in 2016, Donald Trump’s butler can tweet and FB the most vile rhetoric, including death threats against the president, and Trump just kind of shrugs and says “That’s terrible” and the news media all say “Oh, okay then” and never give it another moment’s notice?

    Why is that?

  13. 13.

    srv

    There will be blood:

    Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz chided Bernie Sanders on Tuesday night, saying his response to chaos at the Nevada convention over the weekend was unacceptable.

    “Unfortunately, the senator’s response was anything but acceptable. It certainly did not condemn his supporters for acting violently or engaging in intimidation tactics and added more fuel to the fire,” Wasserman Schultz said on CNN.

  16. 16.

    lamh36

    so I called my cable tech support and there was an intro message saying they were experiencing service outages in my area. I’m tired as fuq right now so I just don’t feel like sitting on the phone waiting for tech support, so I’ll check it again tmrw and if my wifi still spotchy I’ll call me tmrw.

    good night BJ

  17. 17.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m proud to say, I’ve been a coloring book fan for 35-40 years. Admittedly there wasn’t all the choice there is today, and it was hardly a fad, but on the other hand the artwork was generally much better. I love coloring, but I’m appalled at the amateurish quality of about 95% of the stuff that’s out there and won’t buy it. I trust you selected something of high quality.

  18. 18.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @SiubhanDuinne: Not just a death threat–an actual, straight up call for a military coup. That is nuts.

    What Jeremiah Wright said was CORRECT. The roosters of American Imperialism came home to roost. That is true.

    What’s more, Trump said Bush didn’t keep us safe, and he’s winning the GOP nomination. Gee Whiz, I wish it would have been okay to say that ~14 years ago, when any reasonable caution about rushing into Iraq was shouted down as ‘AIDING THE TERRORISTS YOU PINKO AMERICA HATING COMMIE FRAGGIT”

  21. 21.

    Percysowner

    I stupidly tried to read the MoDo column from 1992. That woman has hated Hillary Clinton forever! I was 2 sentences in and the bile was just dripping, so I backed out.

  26. 26.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    Not just a death threat–an actual, straight up call for a military coup. That is nuts.

    It is indeed. But it is the media’s response, or lack thereof, that I think is much the more reprehensible. They’ve basically yawned and looked the other way, and by example encouraged all of us to do the same.

  27. 27.

    some guy

    What’s more, Trump said Bush didn’t keep us safe,

    please please please please please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please pleaseplease please please
    some super PAC remind us what, and where, and when, The Short Fingered Vulgarian uttered these words on live TV.

    pretty please

  28. 28.

    EBT

    100% off topic but are the social media buttons meant to be laid out vertically on mobile? It seems odd to use an entire screen worth of white space for a vertical tower of buttons.

  30. 30.

    3am

    From the NYT/Dowd link:

    “Hillary Clinton is exceedingly polarizing,” said Roger Stone, a Republican consultant. “It’s not that she’s an accomplished modern woman. It’s just that she’s grating, abrasive and boastful. There’s a certain familiar order of things, and the notion of a coequal couple in the White House is a little offensive to men and women.”

  31. 31.

    some guy

    @srv:

    dws, always already forgetting her support for the South Florida GOP. hippies need to be punched/

  34. 34.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Someone tell me why I should give a shit what a man – a “man” who has so little ability or dignity that he was Donald Trump’s ass-wiper for more than forty years – thinks about anything.

    If you have so little self respect that you’ll accept a job as a lickspittle, a toady, a servant for Donald Trump, well, I’ll treat you and your opinions accordingly.

  36. 36.

    dmsilev

    @3am: That of course would be Roger Stone, founder of anti-Hillary group Citizens United Not Timid (check out the oh-so-lovely acronym).

  43. 43.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Nothing more pathetic than watching a candidate lie to his/her supporters about the ability of the campaign to win.

  44. 44.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Matt Murphy
    ‏@MattMurph24

    Sanders says Clinton might get nervous because he’s going to win in CA
    8:19 PM – 17 May 2016

    Someone needs to take Bernie to see a doctor because his brain is broken. The guy needs to be put in a straitjacket and carried home to VT.

  46. 46.

    satby

    @Mnemosyne: FYWP ate my first comment, but I never stopped coloring and I turn 61 in just over 1/2 an hour. It’s very Zen for me. And I’m one of the most popular volunteers in classrooms overseas because I show up with crayons and stacks of paper and coloring books and color with the kids.
    Embrace your inner 5 year old.

  47. 47.

    dmsilev

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I suppose it’s possible that he’ll win CA. Latest polls had him down by 10+ points, but the latest (public) polls are a couple of weeks old at this point. Problem is, of course, that he doesn’t need to win CA, he needs to win CA by 30 points. And that’s not going to happen.

  48. 48.

    Origuy

    Quite a few years ago, I bought the Anatomy Coloring book. I never finished it, but I learned a lot about parts of the body. I understand it’s actually used in some anatomy classes.

  51. 51.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    apparently Chris Hayes is the new Enemy of the People, and is either being compared to Brutus, or the Night’s Watch Stabbers, or both, (Bernie is John Julius Snow, but you probably guessed) but the tweet everyone is laughing at has been deleted

    @Oldgold: I love that Cole asked for his $27 back

  56. 56.

    Gelfling 545

    @Smiling Mortician: my daughter is subject to anxiety attacks and found some years ago that coloring in a coloring book helps immensely. I suspect that part of the effect stems from the fact that it is an activity that can focus your attention without making any real demands on you.

  58. 58.

    JWR

    Just now, here in CA, Bernie Sanders, “Revolutionary™”, (and certifiable nut), says that CA should not have the right to determine who the next President will be! (Goddammit!)

    I have one thing to say to Senator Sanders: Fvck off! I’ve grown quite weary of this Angry Old Man, who’s been sounding more and more like Joe Lieberman in 2006, and Ralph Nader in 2000, all rolled into one.

  60. 60.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    heres what you MUST understand. in eyes of press, dems are NEVER winning. obama ’12, 08, clinton 92 96 – dems not *really* winning

    versus when gop had same grip on power in 04, media pov was “democrats must shut up and go along w the entire program, forever” esp iraq

    Stockholm syndrome/quasi battered spouse syndrome/inferiority complex

    Sadly some online liberals act the same way. Emotionally scared from shocking defeats in 72 or 88 and/or programmed to feel inferior by the media, they cower in fear of a party that has lost 5 of the last 6 elections.

  61. 61.

    dmsilev

    @Mnemosyne: Well, there is that.

    Hopefully, there will be enough blowback from this weekend through today to convince Sanders to dial things back a notch or two. Hopefully.

  63. 63.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Suzanne:

    Not this Sunday! Hope you are talking about Sunday week (May 29). I’m not even leaving Atlanta until next Monday!

  66. 66.

    dmsilev

    @JWR: So, now I’m confused. I thought the current Sanders Accepted Truth was that he was going to sweep California and ride that to the nomination. If CA (which, by itself, has roughly half of the remaining pledged delegates) won’t determine things, what will?

    And also, telling a bunch of people at a California rally that California won’t be crucial seems a tad counterproductive to me. That’s just me, though. I would say that my opinion doesn’t count because I haven’t had a bird land on my podium yet, but in truth a bird did land on the microwave oven just outside my office this afternoon, and that’s good enough.

  67. 67.

    joel hanes

    @satby:

    Happy Birthday, satby !

    I’ll always think of you as a youngster, ’cause I’m a couple years older,
    and no matter how hard you try, you’ll never be able to catch up.

    (But I’m not as old as valued and beloved commenter efgoldman.)

  68. 68.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @JWR:

    I seriously think that things have not just figuratively gone to his head, but literally. I think he actually has gone around the bend and off the cliff, and his lemmings went with him. He’s not on a ledge to talk him off of any more – that ship sailed. He’s going to end up disappearing to Vermont for a while because he’s a kook now.

  70. 70.

    sukabi

    @Percysowner: she kinda sounds like a woman scorned, doesn’t she…. dshe may have made a play for a piece of little william, and got shut down by Hillary.

  71. 71.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    A handful of high-level staffers have left Bernie Sanders’ campaign in recent days, including his director of technology and three of the four members of his original senior leadership team in California.

    I bet they’re being asked to work either without pay or at reduced pay.

    This often happens when a campaign’s end is nigh.

  72. 72.

    SectionH

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    I must start following Willis; he is concise and precise.

    I said the same thing to myself. Just to see if it would work, I clicked on Follow on one of his tweets above. And by george, an actual window to OW’s twitter feed opened, and I was able to follow him from here. Maybe everyone else on BJ who uses Twitter already knew that would work, but I didn’t.

    *And most don’t care…

  73. 73.

    PurpleGirl

    @Mnemosyne: I’ve bought a bunch of coloring books and there are many I’d like to buy but I do need to watch my spending. I’ve bought some new pencils but I also had some old Venus Paradise pencils from many years ago when I drew my own patterns with a ruler and compass. I probably won’t color in most of the books I bought — I just like the patterns.

  74. 74.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Nicole Wallace a had a very good point. If Bernie *actually* cared about defeating Donald Trump, then he would drop out of the race and endorse Hillary Clinton. So his speech is bullshit.

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    anyone else think Nicole Wallace drinks at her pre-appearance dinners?

  76. 76.

    Mike J

    @dmsilev:

    If CA (which, by itself, has roughly half of the remaining pledged delegates) won’t determine things, what will?

    A 50/50 split in CA puts Clinton less than 20 delegates away from a (non-super) majority. By itself. A 50/50 split in CA means Bernie has to win almost 100% of delegates in VI, PR, MT, NJ, NM, DC, ND, and DC.

  77. 77.

    gene108

    One of the ESPN channels had a 30 for 30 on about the USFL.

    The ultimate demise of the league was laid at the feet of Donald Trump, who owned the New Jersey Generals.

    Some of the commentary by his contemporaries boiled down to Trump wanting to run with the big boys, who owned pro-teams, but when it dawned on him the USFL was the JV league, he had to push the league to upgrade to an actual rival of the NFL.

    The league decided to scrap its springtime football schedule and try to compete directly with the NFL in the fall.

    The USFL could have hung around as a springtime league and as they were actually competing for talent with the NFL could have moved to a more prominent status.

    Donald blew that up, by pushing the league to try and move up too fast.

    The USFL sued the NFL for anti-trust violations. The NFL was found guilty, but the jury awarded the USFL one dollar as damages, because they figured the USFL were a bunch of rich guys, like Trump, just trying to make another buck.

    So you can rack the USFL as another business Trump ruined.

  81. 81.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Matt Murphy
    ‏@MattMurph24

    Sanders says he has the possibility of going to Philadelphia with majority of the pledged delegates

    Dude needs to be carted away, pronto.

  84. 84.

    gene108

    The Dowd article brings back (bad) memories about the 1992 election and the freak out the media and others had about Hillary having a career independent from being a political prop for her husband.

  86. 86.

    smith

    The way things are going in the Dem primary seem to me to be a bad news, good news, bad news situation. The bad news is that by inflaming the most emotional of his supporters and refusing to rein them in, Bernie pretty much insures that that cohort will in the end flounce off and vote for Jill Stein. The good news is that so many people, even among Sanders supporters, are appalled by their antics the flouncers won’t take many with them. The really bad news is that what I always assumed to be Bernie’s original aim in this campaign, to show that there is substantial support for more left-leaning policies and that the Dems shouldn’t be afraid to run on them, is grievously undercut by an emerging picture of leftists as self-centered anarchists, just as they have always been stereotyped. No way to convince anyone to take Sanders’ ideas seriously. What could have been a real victory in moving the Overton window left might end up having the opposite effect,

  87. 87.

    JWR

    @dmsilev: ;-) But seriously, if Sanders, somehow, some way, manages to throw the election to George W. Bu, er, I mean to Donald Trump… well, I will be at a complete loss for words. (Also, I am growing increasingly and seriously pissed off!)

  88. 88.

    gf120581

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: It’s even more ludicrous after tonight. He lost KY and it looks like he’ll win Oregon by mere single digits. He needs HUGE victories in every single state and he’s probably going to get curb stomped in half the remaining races (including CA).

    Hillary clinches this thing in weeks and then the angry old coot can go back to VT and not bother us anymore. I’m sick of him,

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Sanders campaign talking about challenging the results in Kentucky

  90. 90.

    gf120581

    @JWR: Eh, don’t worry so much about that. He’s destroying himself in front of everyone. I say enjoy the sight.

    I have nothing but contempt for him anymore. He’s a egotistical old crank with no plans or brains for that matter and who I’m fairly convinced by now is something of a misogynist to boot. I can’t help but feel part of his recent antics are borne out of being unable to accept that he’s losing to a girl.

  91. 91.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @gf120581: Angry old coot has stirred up an angry young hornet’s nest. People without good jobs, with no stake in respectable, upwardly mobile society, no shame (due to years of loss of privacy on the internet and being inculcated against it via social media), and they seriously want to take the ship down with them, if that means ruining the convention. How many will make it to the convention is an open question, but they are a thing, and they aren’t old bitter longtime party-members like in 2008.

  97. 97.

    marian

    @gene108:
    Actually, the majority of the jurors wanted to find for the NFL but there was one holdout. Rather than have a hung jury, they agreed to find for the USFL on a single count but only if the damages were limited to $1.

    The jurors practically rolled their eyes during Trump’s testimony. He seems to lie when it doesn’t even matter. And yeah, he ran that league right into the ground. The USFL was failing in the spring (largely through his starting a bidding war for player’s salaries) so they moved to the fall to compete head to head with the NFL (!) and either force them into a merger (!) or claim antitrust violations. Win, win!

  98. 98.

    dmsilev

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: What, so he can change the split from Clinton +1 to Sanders +1? Memo to Senator Sanders: Just because you lost a close election does not necessarily mean that the election was rigged.

  100. 100.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    I bet they’re being asked to work either without pay or at reduced pay

    One of the stories about the Sanders campaign that will be embargoed until he finally drops out is where the fucking money has been spent. It has apparently been a very efficient redistribution of wealth from small donors to rich consultants and media orgs in ad buys. I suspect towards the end he’ll stiff small vendors and venues, too, because that’s what these kinds of campaigns inevitably do, even if there’s a self-described democratic socialist at the top.

  102. 102.

    hamletta

    @pseudonymous in nc: Yup. I got stiffed for my last month on a Congressional race back in the ’80s. The guy always promised to pay me someday, but he died a few years ago.

  104. 104.

    dmsilev

    @pseudonymous in nc: Those big rallies are very expensive. And he’s spent a lot of money on ads. That’s probably most of it.

    Of course, there was also the several hundred thousand dollars to charter a 767 for a few days for Bernie’s Excellent Papal Adventure.

  105. 105.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: Skin color. The fact that Sunday mornings in the pews are still some of the most segregated times in American each week. The fact that most white Protestants, especially the evangelicals (covering Evangelicals, Charismatics, and Fundamentalists), are unfamiliar with the strain African American theology that holds America responsibility for its failings and it freaked them out. Even though, as evidenced again just this week by both Billy Graham’s son and daughter, white evangelical pastors damning the US or stating that the US is being punished for homosexuality, pornography, other sexual sins, secularism, etc doesn’t raise an eyebrow. The news media, overwhelmingly owned by companies run by white people, with the majority of the on air talent also still white, needing something to make a big deal out of on air. The fact that, as Les Monvess stated, that Trump is rating and revenue gold.

  106. 106.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @joel hanes:

    Oliver Willis has been a serious kick-butt liberal blogger since the early days of the W Unpleasantness, at least.

    He started blogging in early 2000, when the W Unpleasantness was the media lapping up Dubya’s schtick and sneering at Gore. So, yeah.

  107. 107.

    PurpleGirl

    @Mnemosyne: OOOH, OOOH, I’ll have to order the yarn book by Franklin Habit. I haven’t read his blog in loooonng time and I should go over there soon.

    In the Dover series of historical dress, I have a book on Elizabeth R, Henry VIII, and some on Ancient Egyptian themes. Dover books are great.

  109. 109.

    CaseyL

    @satby: Happy birthday! Hope you have fun coloring :)

    Getting older: You’re doing it right (I’m about a year behind you, and live in a perpetual state of disbelief.)

  110. 110.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Obama won Oregon by 18 pts in 2008.

    Sanders winning by 6 pts.

    Revolution!111!!

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    @PurpleGirl:

    I can’t remember which were coloring books and which were paper dolls, but I got Regency, Empire (same time period, but in France), and Federal (same time period, but in America).

  112. 112.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @smith:

    What could have been a real victory in moving the Overton window left might end up having the opposite effect,

    Yeah, instead of a conversation about structural inequality, the Sanders campaign ends up sounding like a sulky teenager.

  114. 114.

    Suzanne

    The real election drama for us in AZ is whether or not Proposition 123 passed. This is the first time I’ve hated a school funding prop, though I voted for it. It basically lets our Rethuglican state legislature off the hook for not finding our schools adequately and borrows money from the state land trust. Mr. Suzanne and most of our many teacher friends will get a raise, but the long-term impact could be really bad. However, we need money in the schools ASAP—we have a huge teacher shortage.

  117. 117.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    @pseudonymous in nc: I still have this gut feeling where Tad Devine runs out the backdoor of the Philadelphia convention hall with suitcases full of money, stranding Sanders without even enough money to fly back to Burlington.

  119. 119.

    JWR

    @maryQ: True, and I’ll admit that I was one of the many lefties who welcomed Sanders into the election, if only to maybe, just maybe, push Clinton a little bit leftwards. But he hasn’t done that, voter-wise or delegate-wise, since at least the beginning of this year. It’s well past time for him to STFU and concede.

  121. 121.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Grandiosity As Addictive As Smack

    With this new blow-up over whatever happened over the weekend in Nevada we see the pretty real and even dire consequences of lying to your supporters. The Sanders campaign, especially campaign manager Jeff Weaver, has been saying for weeks that Sanders can still win and that the system is ‘rigged’ against Sanders. But the situation in Nevada is really a microcosm of the dynamic I described last month: to the extent the system is ‘rigged’, it’s mainly rigged in Sanders’ favor.

    ***

    As I said in the lede, this is the problem with lying to your supporters. Losing is hard. If you pump people up with bogus arguments that they’re losing because they got cheated and the system was rigged, you get people who are really angry, genuinely angry, even though they’re upset that their efforts to reverse the result of the actual election didn’t work.

    Josh Marshall

  122. 122.

    Mnemosyne

    @Miss Bianca:

    They’re crazy popular, and have only gotten more popular since that article was written. You literally can get an adult coloring book based on any movie, TV show, or popular book you want. I’m sure there are porn ones, but I ain’t doing that Google.

    ETA: I was assuming sarcasm because I swear I’ve been resisting the damn things for at least a year and finally succumbed.

  124. 124.

    Run, Lillian!

    As tweeted by Nate Cohn and retweeted by Benchmark:

    Oregon closed primary- Sanders +6 – 8 points
    Washington open caucus- Sanders +47 fucking points

    I’ve lived in OR, spent loads of time in WA, they are both exceedingly white and liberal but WA is not 40 points more white and liberal than OR. No bloody way.

    One of the lasting stories to come from this extended primary has to be that the undemocratic caucuses just have to go. The Bern has been coasting on these inflated numbers for weeks now.

    ETA- not that all liberals voted for Bernie, I am a flaming liberal who voted for Hillary, as are many here.

  125. 125.

    lamh36

    @AlGiordano
    Hey, FEC legal experts: What is the last date that Sanders can transfer presidential $ to his senate committee? Heard some chatter tonight.

    Think Sanders might be trying to get a last infusion of cash before transferring $ out to VT campaign fund? Might be.

  126. 126.

    Anya

    I am seriously disgugsted with Sanders. I can’t believe I ever contemplated voting for him. I am going to ask the Sanders campaign to refund my donation of $160. Thanks, Cole for the idea.

    Right now I am unhappy with Hillary Clinton for holding a fundraiser at the house of racist elitist Lynn Forester de Rothschild’s house and even that doesn’t make me change my support to Sanders.

  127. 127.

    seaboogie

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Why is that?

    Trump is orange – not black and scary- and generates fervid viewership and page-clicks among the nativists, so loyalty from the media.

  128. 128.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    Just in from Josh Marshall:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/it-comes-from-the-very-top

    For months I’d thought and written that Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver was the key driver of toxicity in the the Democratic primary race. Weaver has been highly visible on television, far more than campaign manager’s tend to be. He’s also been the one constantly upping the tension, pressing the acrimony and unrealism of the campaign as Sanders actual chances of winning dwindled. But now I realize I had that wrong.

    Actually, I didn’t realize it. People who know told me.

    Over the last several weeks I’ve had a series of conversations with multiple highly knowledgable, highly placed people. Perhaps it’s coming from Weaver too. The two guys have been together for decades. But the ‘burn it down’ attitude, the upping the ante, everything we saw in that statement released today by the campaign seems to be coming from Sanders himself. Right from the top.

    This should have been obvious to me. The tone and tenor of a campaign always come from the top. It wasn’t obvious to me until now.

    This might be because he’s temperamentally like that. There’s some evidence for that. It may also be that, like many other presidential contenders, once you get close it is simply impossible to let go. I don’t know which it is. That would only be my speculation. But this is coming from Bernie Sanders. It’s not Weaver. It’s not driven by people around him. It’s right from him. And what I understand from knowledgable sources is that in the last few weeks anyone who was trying to rein it in has basically stopped trying and just decided to let Bernie be Bernie.

    Sanders speech tonight was right in line with his statement out this afternoon. He identified the Democratic party as an essentially corrupt, moribund institution which is now on notice that it must let ‘the people’ in. What about the coalitions Barack Obama built in 2008 and 2012, the biggest and most diverse presidential coalitions ever constructed?

    Sanders narrative today has essentially been that he is political legitimacy. The Democratic party needs to realize that. This, as I said earlier, is the problem with lying to your supporters. Sanders is telling his supporters that he can still win, which he can’t. He’s suggesting that the win is being stolen by a corrupt establishment, an impression which will be validated when his phony prediction turns out not to be true. Lying like this sets you up for stuff like happened over the weekend in Nevada.

    As I said, it all comes from the very top.

  129. 129.

    smith

    @lamh36: Hmmmm…Might explain all those staff departures, aka layoffs, just before CA, supposedly a crucial point in his campaign

  130. 130.

    Mike J

    @lamh36: IANACFL. The following is NOT legal advice.

    He can transfer at any time as far as I know. The main limit is if you accept federal matching funds, then you can’t transfer at all. It’s moot though, because there’s no way he gets through California with any money in the bank.

  131. 131.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mnemosyne: I remember there being some books of very intricate designs – flowers and vines and butterflies and tropical fish seascapes and such-like – that were popular in my early high school days, that my friends and I took thin-line magic markers to. Haven’t really thought too much about such things since then. What a fascinating modern age we live in, to be sure!

  132. 132.

    seaboogie

    @dmsilev:

    That of course would be Roger Stone, founder of anti-Hillary group Citizens United Not Timid

    Whoah – that’s actually a real thing!

  133. 133.

    Mike J

    @Mike J: Keep in mind he still has MILLIONS the FEC is requiring him to refund (over 600 pages in the complaint) for foreign contributions and over the limit contributions.

  134. 134.

    Adam L Silverman

    @pseudonymous in nc: Based on reporting its all gone into Devine’s company and Weaver’s company because Senator Sanders didn’t put caps into their contracts. They have a conflict of interest and are failing in the cardinal rule of holding the position of advisor: your only job is to tell your boss what he or she needs to know. Not what they want to hear. You are to do it politely, but you are to do it. And then your job is to get out of the way.

  137. 137.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    You have a major presidential candidate (Sanders) trafficking in conspiracy theory. ~ Markos Moulitsas

    Told you so.

    Back in the 70s he was publishing conspiracy theories about fluoridation of water being a sinister government plot and blaming breast cancer on female sexual appetites. (link).

    In your guts, you know he’s nuts.

  138. 138.

    tastytone

    As a random aside: I’m fairly certain I’ve read each post on this thread and haven’t once seen the term “hippie-puncher (-ing, -ed, et al)”. I’m filled with gratitude.
    It’s the little things, eh?

  139. 139.

    Emma

    @Mnemosyne: My mother was a big one for coloring, so my sister and I always sneaked books and pencils among the birthday and Christmas presents. Now that she’s gone I’ve collected all the books, crayons, and pencils into a big canvas bag, thinking to pass them around to the younger set. Except that they keep calling me, especially the high-end flower and butterfly ones.

  144. 144.

    Redshift

    @marian:

    The jurors practically rolled their eyes during Trump’s testimony. He seems to lie when it doesn’t even matter.

    He’s a bullshitter. He says whatever he thinks will work at any point, without regard whether it’s true or not. The result is that he tells really obvious lies.

    Unfortunately, our media are very poor at dealing with BS, because they expect that a person will care if their lies are pointed out, but BSers don’t.

  146. 146.

    JWR

    @gf120581: I s’pose you’re right, but the longer he keeps his followers riled up, the tighter the GE may become. But thank you, and I’ll try to stay calm. ;-)

  148. 148.

    Original Lee

    @Mnemosyne: I only find it helpful for stress relief until I get close to finishing a picture. Then I get all intense about finishing it, which kind of defeats the purpose. But I am too anal to have a coloring book full of mostly-colored pictures, so I save these for when I need help staying awake for a bit (e.g., waiting for the washing machine to finish a load so I can move the pants I need for work in the morning to the dryer). YMMV.

  149. 149.

    Miss Bianca

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    I suspect towards the end he’ll stiff small vendors and venues, too, because that’s what these kinds of campaigns inevitably do, even if there’s a self-described democratic socialist at the top.

    Now *that* is a very depressing thought. And I mean that most sincerely.

  150. 150.

    marian

    @Redshift:

    True…in fairness it’s easier when there’s a nice judge there to force him to answer the questions. The media’s real problem is that they’re not prepared with the facts so they just sit there while he spins his yarns.

  151. 151.

    tastytone

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    blaming breast cancer on female sexual appetites

    I can’t help but imagine young Bernie–candle lit, bottle of chianti, Trotsky poster on the wall–awkwardly courting an unsuspecting date: “No seriously…it’ll keep you from getting cancer”.

  153. 153.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Benchmark Politics ‏@benchmarkpol
    By popular demand, PRELIMINARY benchmark for California: Clinton 56% – Sanders 44%. #CAPrimary

    170 retweets 231 likes

    Benchmark Politics ‏@benchmarkpol

    New Mexico – Clinton 57% – Sanders 43%. VERY high Hispanic population.

    59 retweets 70 likes

    Benchmark Politics ‏@benchmarkpol

    New Jersey – We haven’t seem demographics like this since Maryland. Blowout. Clinton 64% – Sanders 36%.

    77 retweets 90 likes

  155. 155.

    Prescott Cactus

    From Yahoo News (Not Katie)
    After Ore. win, Sanders vows to fight Clinton until ‘the last ballot is cast’.

    Speaking before results were finalized, Sanders insisted there is a “possibility” he could pull ahead of Clinton. He acknowledged this would be improbable and would take multiple major victories among the six states that will vote on June 7.

    Has the campaign has been slipping into and out of Colorado ? How can you be President if you don’t know arithmetic. Perhaps you can’t.

  156. 156.

    Mnemosyne

    @Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):

    I do worry a bit about this, because when the entire system and both parties are hopelessly corrupt, the only logical choice is to vote for the guy who’s going to burn it all down, which is going to end up being Trump.

    But I’m still pretty sure most of the “burn it all down” Berniebros are Paulistas who’ve never voted for a Democrat before, so I don’t think it will end up being a net loss. Hopefully.

  157. 157.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    I remember Kos going to Joe Trippis house in Maryland after the 04 primary and talking about how expensive it looked etc etc. Kos basically said that’s where all that Dean campaign money went – well to Trippi and other consultants. Sanders turned me off when he shushed his wife a couple of months ago. You shouldn’t do that anyway but you sure as heck don’t do it in front of hundreds of thousands of people.

  158. 158.

    gwangung

    @maryQ:

    he’s hoing what he has always been doing-trying to destroy the Democratic Party.

    Which is a totally useless and STUPID strategy if you leave the Republican Party untouched.

  164. 164.

    Prescott Cactus

    @Miss Bianca: Legalized pot. Only a brain bathed in THC could imagine this.

    From Bernie tonight:

    “We have the possibility. It will be a steep climb, I recognize that, but we have the possibility of going to Philadelphia with a majority of the pledged delegates,” Sanders said. “Some people say that we’ve got a steep hill to climb to do that. And you know what? That is absolutely true. But you know what? Together we have been climbing that steep hill from day one in this campaign.”

  165. 165.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    Ooh, that knitting one looks like fun!

    I have a very cool one that’s all fantasy fashion designs made of flowers and leaves and fruits and vegetables. Haven’t used it in a while, but if I unearth it from the clutter that surrounds me I’ll send you a link.

  166. 166.

    jonas

    @gogol’s wife:

    Today they had a “Dems in disarray” headline.

    That will probably be a regular feature. They cover the GOP dumpster fire for a few days, and then start feeling like they need to balance things out, so they’ll pull some kind of “Dems in Disarray” story out of their asses for good measure.

  167. 167.

    Cacti

    @gwangung:

    Which is a totally useless and STUPID strategy if you leave the Republican Party untouched.

    It’s that stupid “heighten the contradictions” strategy that never actually works.

  168. 168.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @satby:

    By now it is your birthday, and I hope it’s a very happy one, with nothing but good things for you in the coming year.

  169. 169.

    Redshift

    @marian: Yeah, and dealing with BS is really hard, much harder than deliberate lies. Fact-checking doesn’t work against BS because, as Harry Frankfurt pointed out, fact checking is quite a bit of work, but the BS artist can just move on to different BS with no effort at all.

    For example, I’ve heard considerable discussion about Trump’s claim that he gets audited every year, taking it at face vague, but the only evidence we have for that is his own word.

  170. 170.

    Mike J

    @Prescott Cactus: Delegates remaining: 781 Bernie needs 528, Hillary needs 254. California, where polls have Clinton up 10, has 475 by itself. A 50/50 split puts Clinton over the top (keeping in mind PR will give her at least 30 before CA).

  171. 171.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Original Lee:

    Dover has always had the best. I’ve probably gone through half a dozen of the Six Wives of Henry VIII over the years.

  172. 172.

    tastytone

    @Mnemosyne:

    But I’m still pretty sure most of the “burn it all down” Berniebros are Paulistas

    A few Ron Paul zealots I know have climbed on board the Bernie bus, but I haven’t been able to get them to tell me how a libertarian makes the leap to socialism in any form. Aren’t the two philosophies on government polar opposites? Is there just something about cranky old white guys with big goals (and no rational idea how to attain them) that some Bros find mesmerizing?

  176. 176.

    joel hanes

    @tastytone:

    Is there just something

    The self-flattering conviction that most other people are dupes and you and your cadre are the only ones clued-in.

    Gnostic religions work the same way, as do most conspiracy theories.
    Scientology is a 20th century example writ large.

  178. 178.

    joel hanes

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Ghouls are easy to kill, but seldom have much worthwhile loot.
    Raiders are much more remumerative,
    and a hard-to-beat Gunner installation better yet.

    Are you building settlements and farming mutfruit to trade for copper ?

  179. 179.

    Prescott Cactus

    @Mike J: Fully understand ! Sanders is pouring gasoline in bottles and corking them with rags. The Josh Marshall article above says a lot. He really thinks this goes on until the Convention. I didn’t even give him $27 and I want it back.

    P.S. Being appointed PC. Got set up with maps, data, everything. Getting everyone into ballot by mail who isn’t (PVEL – Permanent Early Voter List). Registration, then GOTV. Thanks for the encouragement !

  183. 183.

    tastytone

    @joel hanes:

    The self-flattering conviction that most other people are dupes and you and your cadre are the only ones clued-in.

    The cognitive dissonance required to rah-rah Sanders while clutching one’s copy of ATLAS SHRUGGED is…interesting. And may end up being similar to the THC/hallucinogens discussion P.C. and Miss B are having.

  185. 185.

    Prescott Cactus

    @Miss Bianca: 25 years of filling little cups with urine (they immediately stick a thermometer in it, btw…) 3 to 4 times a year, has left me woefully behind the curve.

  186. 186.

    Origuy

    Jill Stein tweeted how terrible closed primaries are; someone asked her why the Green Party’s California primary is closed to “no party preference” voters. Silence.

  189. 189.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    The Josh Marshall piece is going to be a watershed tomorrow, I predict. Dropped late tonight, I’m expecting some significant pushback for Bernie to give up the ghost.

  190. 190.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Mnemosyne:

    But I’m still pretty sure most of the “burn it all down” Berniebros are Paulistas who’ve never voted for a Democrat before, so I don’t think it will end up being a net loss. Hopefully.

    Every BernieitdowntothgroundeBro I know is an old hippy or punk rocker who hate Paul. This is really old school, October Revolution type stuff we’re talking about here, from the purity to the cult of personality.

  191. 191.

    Smedley the uncertain

    @some guy: I wish you guys wouldn’t link to stuff that requires a sign-up.
    My e-mail’s already scattered far and wide.

  192. 192.

    starscream

    Many of us here have been saying for months that Sanders is a moron and an assclown. Glad to see more Democrats are catching on. The shame is I agree with him on most issues; I’m just old enough to remember what it’s like to have a dumbass as president.

  193. 193.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Origuy:

    Jill Stein tweeted how terrible closed primaries are; someone asked her why the Green Party’s California primary is closed to “no party preference” voters. Silence.

    I’ve been pointing this out to my Puritopian friends on FB for about a year now.

  194. 194.

    daverave

    Her Baroness Lynn Forester de Rothschild was in my high school graduating class in Bergen County, New Jersey. She pretty much crushed us in the Most Likely to Succeed competition.

  195. 195.

    Matt McIrvin

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Sadly some online liberals act the same way. Emotionally scared from shocking defeats in 72 or 88 and/or programmed to feel inferior by the media, they cower in fear of a party that has lost 5 of the last 6 elections.

    The catastrophic midterm blowouts in 2010 and 2014 just might have something to do with that. The Democrats won’t truly be a winning party until they can break the Republican dominance in midterm, odd-year and special elections, and I see no way of doing that.

    edit: …short of another catastrophic Republican administration, and that’s a cure worse than the disease.

  199. 199.

    Matt McIrvin

    @tastytone:

    A few Ron Paul zealots I know have climbed on board the Bernie bus, but I haven’t been able to get them to tell me how a libertarian makes the leap to socialism in any form. Aren’t the two philosophies on government polar opposites? Is there just something about cranky old white guys with big goals (and no rational idea how to attain them) that some Bros find mesmerizing?

    It’s about hating Hillary Clinton. That is the beginning, end and sum total of it.

  200. 200.

    Redshift

    @Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): One of the ones I know (who JC is currently feuding with on Twitter) is a purity pony from my FireDogLake days. A couple of months ago he issued what I thought was the ultimate purity pony statement, and it went something like this:

    “If it wasn’t for the GOTV unions and African Americans are doing for Hillary, Bernie’s message would definitely be winning.”

    Hmmm, which of these things actually wins elections?

  201. 201.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Prescott Cactus:
    The superdelegates line got all the discussion, but Weaver had to be pushed to it. In that interview just after New York, Weaver’s main explanation of how Sanders was going to win was that he expected Sanders to win every single remaining state. The guy is either a Trump level liar or batshit nuts.

    @tastytone:
    Remember that Libertarianism is founded on pretending you’re not a Republican voter. Like the evangelicals with Carson, sometimes you do a little dance to show that you would TOTALLY vote for a Democrat/black person, then go vote for the bigoted asshole like you always do.

  202. 202.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    So apparently there’s a story about Bill Clinton taking 26 flights on some convicted sex offender (underage prostitution) to a private island on a plane nicknamed “the lolita express”, and supposedly it was a reason Obama didn’t want HRC as VP (reported in “Game Change”, supposedly). This is all over the other side’s sites right now….yes, concern troll, but my god, that’s really bad press if it gets big.

  203. 203.

    joel hanes

    @tastytone:

    My point was that the actual supposed content is not important.
    It’s the iron-clad assurance of their own superiority that draws them to such crank positions.

    Not unlike the vocal Christianists whose “Christian” opinions are the opposite of the Sermon on the Mount.

  204. 204.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Dog Dawg Damn:
    At this point, I assume all new ‘scandals’ about the Clintons are made-up bullshit, because they have been so minutely scrutinized and relentlessly dogged that anything serious would have been nailed to them long ago.

  205. 205.

    Redshift

    @Matt McIrvin: Making voting easier is the biggest thing we can do to help with off-year turnout. It’s somewhat of a chicken-and-egg problem, since Republicans are aware of that and will push in the opposite direction. But whenever we have a majority in any jurisdiction, it should be near the top of the list. (I could elaborate, but I gotta get to bed.)

  206. 206.

    Cacti

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s about hating Hillary Clinton. That is the beginning, end and sum total of it.

    If it wasn’t painfully apparent already, the Nevada thuggery leaves no room for further doubt.

    The Sanders campaign is about lost status anxiety for white males. They’re left’s equivalent of teabaggers and Trump supporters. They’re for diversity and inclusion as the long as the chicks, blacks, browns, queers, etc. remember who’s in charge.

    They came unhinged when those uppity bitches Boxer and Lange wouldn’t be cowed by their bolshevik behavior in Nevada.

  208. 208.

    KS in MA

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, and all that made an Atwater/Breitbart-style trashing of Wright’s sermon possible. It was a good sermon, but only for people who understand what sermons are about.

  209. 209.

    joel hanes

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    It’s an old story (January), and pure guilt-by-association.

    Bill did go to billionaire Epstein’s island retreat, multiple times.
    Many influential people did, mostly men.
    Every time the story comes up, the “shocking” “new” revelation is that yes, Bill did go there and stay.

    Epstein did actually procure underage women for some gatherings there (testimony from the women).

    None of the women have alleged that Clinton was involved in that stuff, or in any of the gatherings at which it went on.

    There’s a book of addresses; some of them are circled, and it looks as if those are the contacts for the men involved in the underage sex. Although the address book has many various contact links for WJC, none of them are circled.

  210. 210.

    Steeplejack

    @satby:

    Happy birthday! My college girlfriend (and still a good friend) has her birthday today too.

  211. 211.

    Mnemosyne

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    AFAICT, the guy was prosecuted for his crimes and there was no — zero — evidence that Bill was involved or had any clue what was going on with the plane at other times. It’s like saying that Sandusky’s carpool partners should be held liable for his crimes because they should have known Sandusky was also using the car to transport his victims at other times.

    In short: the usual guilt-by-association bullshit.

  212. 212.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Redshift:

    Jesus, everything with these fuckwads needs some sort of fucking qualifying statement, doesn’t it?

    Hey, assholes, a lot of people actually know how math works, and the simple fact is that you are very bad qt convincing people that your saavior is the only savior- or a savior at all! I refuse to pray harder- or at all- in order to see the divine light, you jerkoffs! THERE IS NO DIVINE LIGHT!

  215. 215.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, it’s always a mystery to me when it is going to stick or not. After Kerry getting besmirched by the SwiftFuckers, anything is possible, but then again, Obama pal’ed around with terrorists, and look where that got him!

  217. 217.

    starscream

    @NR: Well, jump on or vote for Trump in the general. Those are your only options. Sorry your bro didn’t win (not really), but he didn’t. No amount of commenting here is going to change that.

    P.S. Obama lost 9 of the last 12 primaries in 2008. So clearly not everyone was ready to jump on board the Barry train.

  219. 219.

    tastytone

    @joel hanes:
    I get ya. It’s just disappointing to admit. Ego trumps everything.
    (The stronger the argument for one’s own purity usually = the stronger indication of a BS artist.)

    While I assume everyone–including myself–is at least a little full of shit at any given moment (philosophically & politically speaking, un-intentionally or otherwise), I still tend to hope that the most active and vocal proponents of any given movement a least have a core ideology they hang their hat on–as far as that’s possible.

  220. 220.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @NR:

    Because his followers can’t do math- or don’t care about the math when they think they can just burn everything to the ground. Savonarola was big in Florence until people came around to his bullshit- then he was hanged and burned. Thus the fate of purists.

    Wanna talk about Robespierre next?

  221. 221.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @Matt McIrvin: Yeah, the idea that all these Bernie-or-Bust people (or most) are Paulites does not ring true based on what I’ve seen. I’m not friends with anyone who is even Paul-curious, yet I have about a half-dozen FB friends who are still clutching to the hope for their Saint Bernie and claiming the system is rigged etc. They are the leftier-than-thou’s who can’t bring themselves to support the Dems because they are too Establishment!!1!, but they definitely congregate on the Left not the Libertarian Right. They are woefully ignorant on the details of how our political system operates and have a similar hero-worship of Liz Warren (though that is far more understandable.) They are downright embarrassing, truth be told.

  222. 222.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @Cacti: “The Sanders campaign is about lost status anxiety for white males. They’re left’s equivalent of teabaggers and Trump supporters. They’re for diversity and inclusion as the long as the chicks, blacks, browns, queers, etc. remember who’s in charge.”

    Yes, there is alot of truth in that. The privilege and sense of entitlement on display by the Bernie-or-Bust’ers that I know is close to that of Trump supporters.

  223. 223.

    joel hanes

    Oh, shit.

    Kevin Drum just did a late-night post characterizing Sen. Sanders as “bitter”, and wondering why, and suddenly Bernfeelers are crawling out of the woodwork at midnight to say how unfair that is, and how disappointed they are in Mojo. None of them will admit that Bernie sounds bitter, or has the smallest blemish.

    Those who like train-wreck comment threads will be entranced.

  224. 224.

    NR

    @starscream:

    Well, jump on or vote for Trump in the general. Those are your only options.

    I’m voting for Hillary, but there are other options besides her and Trump.

    The question is how many will exercise them in November.

  226. 226.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @NR:

    Why? Because of some truthy gut feelings? They’re fucking idiots who deserve four years of misery before eight years- at least- of the really nasty conservative shit. They are modern day Know Nothings.

  227. 227.

    NR

    @Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):

    Why?

    Because for some inexplicable reason, the Democrats have decided to nominate a candidate who two-thirds of the country thinks is dishonest.

    If Trump wins in November–and there is a very real chance that he will–that will go down as one of the worst political mistakes of the last hundred years.

  228. 228.

    magurakurin

    @NR:

    I’m voting for Hillary, but there are other options besides her and Trump.

    No. There isn’t. To think otherwise is delusional. But you’re a fuckwit anyway, so have at it. Jill will thank you for her vote.

  230. 230.

    Cacti

    @NR:

    The irony of a Trump supporter crying about sexism is truly hilarious.

    Again, link a single post where I support Trump and I’ll declare Bernard Sanders (I-VT) is my personal savior.

  232. 232.

    different-church-lady

    @Redshift:

    Unfortunately, our media are very poor at dealing with [bullshit], because….

    …they crave the taste of it.

  233. 233.

    Chyron HR

    @NR:

    Waaah Bernie’s losing because stupid Dems aren’t voting for him!

    Why do you think a politician is automatically entitled to our votes?

  234. 234.

    Zinsky

    I used to read Oliver Willis’ blog all the time, now I rarely do – maybe I should. Anyway, I think it was Molly Ivins who used to write that the media felt the natural state of things in Washington is when Republicans rule. Democrats are treated as usurpers. I find this bizarre, since Republicans are a natural minority party. They wouldn’t win a single national election if it wasn’t for treachery, voter suppression and outright theft as occurred in Florida in 2000.

  235. 235.

    qwerty42

    @Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):

    Every BernieitdowntothgroundeBro I know is an old hippy or punk rocker who hate Paul. This is really old school, October Revolution type stuff we’re talking about here, from the purity to the cult of personality.

    Oh cr*p. Are we going to get a new Port Huron Statement from a bunch of old guys who want to relive their youth?

  236. 236.

    maurinsky

    @joel hanes:

    I’ve been reading him for years!

    He just started a new satirical website called taketown.com. Hot takes. He is riling people up!

  238. 238.

    Applejinx

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    angry young hornet’s nest. People without good jobs, with no stake in respectable, upwardly mobile society, no shame (due to years of loss of privacy on the internet and being inculcated against it via social media)

    And whose fault is all this? (no, not specifically ‘Hillary’s’)

    It’s my contention that this hornet’s nest would be there whether stirred up or not. It’s possible that in the absence of Bernie, we’d just be looking at a Trump landslide but it got diverted leftward. That’s an opportunity, because Hillary Clinton has been able to match platform for platform, is saying many of the same things Bernie was saying, and Bernie’s antics have allowed her to run as a full-blown liberal with NO establishment conservative in the race to get in the way.

    The hornet’s nest is real but it doesn’t have to just reflexively go to the fascist in the race. We have a shot at tapping that energy if Hillary can be spun as a… well, as a Democrat. I realize this is a red flag to wave, but many people are reacting to her as if she is compelled to run to some imaginary ‘center’ like that’s a law of nature. And it’s not, it’s so not. That was the climate of the 90s whether we like it or not. But things are different now…

  239. 239.

    Applejinx

    @pseudonymous in nc: So have the conversation anyway, properly, if Bernie is so bad at having it.

    If not for bernie hammering those points endlessly you’d not even have political cover to have that conversation. All the stadium filling provided a context for the MSM to deal with that conversation.

    It’s still needed, more than ever if Bernie’s people have failed to be the standard bearer for it. There’s any number of conversations about structural inequality to be had, whether it is racial inequality or wealth inequality. By all means don’t leave it to the obvious skills of Bernie Sanders and his operation.

    I’m still very happy with his tenacity in bringing that to people’s attention, but there needs to be more than yelling at clouds about it.

  240. 240.

    satby

    Good morning everyone and thanks for all the nice birthday wishes. This is promising to be a better year, and all the Juicer support over the last few years has really made me a lucky and happy person. Thanks so much!

  241. 241.

    gogol's wife

    @jonas:

    Yeah, this one’s about how labor is going to vote for Trump because they don’t like an environmentalist who’s funding the Democrats.

  243. 243.

    Miss Bianca

    @Prescott Cactus: @Prescott Cactus: I am speaking from 30 year old knowledge of the one substance.

    @NotMax: @redshirt: Agreed. Puppet episode rocked. Rest of the series hit or miss (good finale, nice arc of the Wesley character, tho’ the show lost something for me when Doyle departed). You watching? Re-watching? Planning a watch?

  244. 244.

    maurinsky

    @Miss Bianca:
    I did love the finale, but agree that it was generally hit or miss. I also liked the alternate dimension reality episodes, and the Jasmine episodes.

    I’m an outlier in the world of Angel watchers in that I loved Connor.

  245. 245.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Uncle Ebeneezer:

    Yeah, the idea that all these Bernie-or-Bust people (or most) are Paulites does not ring true based on what I’ve seen.

    I know exactly one person who fits that description. He’s an odd duck, who once faked his own suicide on a Usenet group just so he could come back from the dead several days later and berate all his online friends for being big phonies when they mourned him. He also considers Obamacare evil because it prevented single-payer healthcare; how this possibly squares with his Ron Paul fandom, I cannot fathom.

    He’s currently declaring that the only thing that can save US politics is being completely destroyed by a fascist Trump presidency, which will bring the revolution.

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