Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

When we show up, we win.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

If you’re gonna whine, it’s time to resign!

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

So many bastards, so little time.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Pretty Amusing

Pretty Amusing

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In case there are a few Sanders supporters I haven’t alienated yet, this from Alexandra Petri is pretty funny:

If Sanders supporters complained about other things the way they complain about election results

CHESS:
This game is rigged. The pawns get to move almost NOWHERE, whereas the QUEEN (DETECT ANY RESEMBLANCE HERE???) can just move wherever she likes with no apparent rhyme or reason. She’s not a bishop or a rook. Why does she move like one? Also, the black pieces have to move second, which is TOTALLY unfair and needs to be looked into, unless I am playing with the white pieces today.

SCRABBLE:
I played exactly the same word as my opponent, using exactly the same letters, and received fewer points for it — just because I wasn’t on some pink square, which my opponent claimed gave you DOUBLE the points. Pretty sure that’s the definition of rigged. Why would you just randomly have squares all over the board that counted for MORE or FEWER points when it’s just the same words? Also my opponent had two BLANK tiles, which just got to be WHATEVER letters she wanted. This seems made-up. Milton Bradley are shills who are trying to prevent the revolution. Also, “BERN” is totally a word.

TENNIS:
Sometimes when the ball lands it is worth 10 points and sometimes it is worth 15 points? This is not consistent. Also, sometimes you only need to win, like, 18 games? But other times you need to win maybe 30? The rules should not be like this. I hear that this game was invented by kings, and now I know why: BECAUSE IT SILENCES THE POINTS OF THE LITTLE GUY. Plus, to win you need ads, and you know who pays for ads.

HEARTS:
THIS GAME IS EVEN MORE RIGGED THAN THE ECONOMY. Hear me out. Usually when you get a heart or the queen of spades, it is an obvious negative, but somehow if you get ALL of the hearts and the queen of spades, you win? This is a blatant lie meant to disenfranchise voters, except for the time when it happened to me by mistake, then it was good.

I chuckled.

Reader Interactions

610Comments

  1. 1.

    plus C

    I’m guessing Golf isn’t the list of things they gripe about, since the lowest score wins.

  2. 2.

    SFAW

    John –
    You’re starting to become obsessive about this. Might want to consider more pet-centered posts.

  7. 7.

    Mike J

    @p.a.: For the past few weeks, Bernie has been playing in the condition usually accepted as the forfeit for not getting the ball past the ladies tees.

    Tuck it back in dude, the game is over.

  8. 8.

    srv

    This blog was built on the souls of so many ANSWER protesters and PUMAs. Sandernistas are just the cherry on top for the John Coles of the Left.

  9. 9.

    John Cole

    @SFAW: Yeah, I’ve gone full Schaivo the last two days.

    I think it is because I feel kind of betrayed. I thought he would be good for the party and really felt both were qualified to be President. And he’s just shit all over that idea and acted like a total fuckwad the last month or so.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    I’m a little disappointed that Baud! supporters aren’t burning it all down….

    Or bauding it all up.

  12. 12.

    AkaDad

    With so many front-pagers here supporting Hillary, it’s clear that Balloon Juice is rigged against Bernie.

  13. 13.

    Darkrose

    @JPL: On the contrary–I thought it was hilarious. Much funnier than blowing off death threats from your supporters against members of your own party.

  17. 17.

    MoeLarryAndJesus

    And fuck badminton. Any game played with a shuttlecock obviously favors the patriarchy.

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    Good for Alexandra Petri. It’s clever.

    Hello from Barcelona. Touched down a few minutes before 1:00 a. Palm trees and New Orleans-like weather.

    Sipping some red wine and trying to get sleepy. (It’s 3:13 am local, and I ain’t Steeplejack.)

  28. 28.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    John, if you keep this up, the Bernie or Busters are gonna vote for their own personal Jorge Videla Memorial Helicopter Ride. That’ll show you.

  29. 29.

    starscream

    @Mike J: Good fucking god @ those comments. Is nowhere on the internet safe from Bernie’s disciples and their conspiracy theories?

  33. 33.

    Jeffro

    @Mike J: I don’t know a lot about golf, but I do know this one and oh oh so apropos.

    And terrifying, picturing The Bern doing that for real.

  36. 36.

    redshirt

    Cole’s gone full anti-Bernie just to boost blog comments. Since it’s a fact any Sanders topic will trend towards a TBogg.

    I eagerly await Bob in Portland’s insights.

  38. 38.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    One of my favorites was a Tweet from Ann Marie Cox:

    Bernie, what about race relations? Wall Street. Bernie, what time are you getting up? Wall Street. Bernie, how are you? Wall Street.

  44. 44.

    SFAW

    @John Cole:

    John –
    I understand. But I — perhaps naively — am still holding out some hope that three weeks from now (i.e., after the CA primary), he’s going to dial it back. Although I don’t think he’ll ever campaign for Hillary the way we’d like him to, I want to believe he’s going to realize (if he doesn’t already) that being passive in this election could lead to President Trump.

    I’m usually a pretty cynical bastard, so this “hoping for the best” thing is atypical for me. But, as I said in an earlier thread, he may just be doing the scorched-earth thing because the Dem campaign is not yet officially over. I would have thought he was smarter than that, however.

  45. 45.

    Ramping Up

    Trump only behind two points in New Hampshire. Surging Trump? Where will the Bernie voters in NH and Mass go?

    What about Pennsylvania? Very much in play!

    #FeelTheBern
    #DemsInDisarray
    #RustbeltSwing

  48. 48.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Mike J: Sellout!

    (Actually Howard’s been a declared superdelegate for HRC for a while. Why is he a superdelegate? He was head of the DNC.)

  51. 51.

    AkaDad

    Seeing Trump reminds me of my daughter’s birth. Her hands were the same size.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    @FlipYrWhig: with his ties to the labor movement, I think he was technically a journeyman.

    BTW: that isn’t a knock on the labor movement and/or unions. I’ve belonged to several of the latter and they are important organizations.

  59. 59.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Elizabelle: If you can find a restaurant that makes it, you want to try the Seven Angels flan. Its name is derived from the flan being layered, with each of the seven being a different custard.

  62. 62.

    Mnemosyne

    @SFAW:

    The political cartoon in Anne Laurie’s thread below is pretty good. Part of the problem right now is that loyal Democratic voters are drifting away from Bernie, so we’re hearing a lot more of the Bernie or bust! bellowing from the few who are left.

    I still think that this year’s Berniebros are like 2008’s PUMAs — vocal far beyond their actual numbers, and insignificant at the polls.

  71. 71.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Darkrose:

    Much funnier than blowing off death threats from your supporters against members of your own party.

    As if to kind of admit it’s only your party of convenience, having never been your party (proudly!) before this season.

  72. 72.

    raven

    @Major Major Major Major: I surf fish most of the time I’m down on the gulf coast. Redfish, flounder, pompano and maybe whiting. I’ll go out on a boat Sunday and hope for red snapper, grouper, amberjack, trigger, vermillion and what ever else might be on the reefs in the 9 mile state waters. That trip will be on a 6 pack and I may go on a headboat later in the week. It’s the best bang for the buck and goes out 30 miles but no red snapper.

  73. 73.

    Baud

    Apparently, the word for what Trump would like to do to his daughter is a forbidden word.

  74. 74.

    dmsilev

    @Mnemosyne: The Bernie-or-Bust types seem like what would happen if some mad, and honestly rather perverted, scientist conducted a genetic engineering program to cross PUMAs with Ron Paul types. Have any Berniebots tried to hire a blimp lately?

  77. 77.

    Peale

    @MoeLarryAndJesus: sorry. Your concern for the patriarchy indicates that you’re one of THOSE liberals who have been dividing the working class with your social justice warrior bs.

  80. 80.

    Ramping Up

    The Pajama Boy White House.

    Money quotes:

    Prolonged adolescence? Affluence? The disappearance of physical chores and muscular labor? The collapse of traditional liberal education and the triumph of the therapeutic mindset? Disdain for or ignorance of life outside the Boston–New York–Washington corridor? Political correctness as a sort of careerist indemnity that allows one to live a sheltered and apartheid existence? The shift in collective values and status from production, agriculture, and manufacturing to government, law, finance, and media? The reinvention of the university as a social-awareness retreat rather than a place to learn? During the showdown over Obamacare, the pro-Obama PAC Organizing for Action put out an ad now known as “Pajama Boy.” It showcased a young fellow in thick retro-rimmed glasses, wearing black-and-red plaid children’s-style pajamas, and sipping from a mug, with a sort of all-knowing expression on his face. The text urged: “Wear pajamas. Drink hot chocolate. Talk about getting health insurance. #GetTalking.” Most men in Dayton or Huntsville do not lounge around in the morning in their pajamas, with or without built-in footpads, drinking hot chocolate and scanning health-insurance policies. That our elites either think they do, or think the few that matter do, explains why a nation $20 trillion in debt envisions the battle over transgender restrooms as if it were Pearl Harbor

    This election will be masculine vs. feminine. Note to liberals: not the same thing as man vs. woman. But Alpha vs. Beta.

    #HE-lection
    #DangerousMasculinity
    #AntiFeminism

  88. 88.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MoeLarryAndJesus: @Peale: I don’t know. Any game that involves smacking a shuttlecock with racquets seems to be a more of the BDSM dungeon than the patriarchy sort of thing. Unless, of course, the BDSM dungeon is a patriarchy sort of thing. Please advise.

  90. 90.

    Kropadope

    @Ramping Up:

    This election will be masculine vs. feminine. Note to liberals: not the same thing as man vs. woman. But Alpha vs. Beta.

    That’s not quite right; it will be the feminine and those secure in their masculinity, versus those not secure in their masculinity.

  91. 91.

    Dread

    I honestly cannot wrap my head around the idea that the best way to see a progressive future is to ensure that the conservative agenda is enacted for the next 20 years via Derp Fuhrer and his SCOTUS picks.

  97. 97.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope:

    That’s not quite right; it will be the feminine and those secure in their masculinity, versus those not secure in their masculinity.

    I don’t agree with you often, but THIS.

  98. 98.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    TBogg ‏@tbogg 8m8 minutes ago

    The Sanders campaign at this point is pretty much the grandkids not reporting grandpa died so the social security checks keep coming

  99. 99.

    Ramping Up

    @Kropadope:

    Almost. But not quite.

    Masculine, secure in femininity vs. insecure in their femininity aka Third Wave Feminists and their Beta white knight orbiters.

  100. 100.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    Sanders better be hoping Hilz beats Trump in the general because he will have a primary opponent to deal with in his next run.

  103. 103.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Kropadope: Does Donald Trump seem “masculine” to anybody? So many of his mannerisms are drag queen-ish, _especially_ the signature wrist-flip action with pout. Nothing against drag queens, far from it, but the whole thing about drag queens is exaggeration and camp. Trump screams camp to me.

  106. 106.

    Kropadope

    @FlyingToaster: Rhubarb is delicious, I used to eat it straight out of the ground. It also goes well in pies when combined with sweeter fruit.

  107. 107.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the earnest young man who is heading up the new post-Bernie movement to recruit non-politicians to run for Congress just said on the Rachel Maddow program that income inequality, climate change and mass incarceration are now bipartisan issues.

  108. 108.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @LAO: We got one of them on my street: big loud truck, big dog, Trump bumper sticker…compensating for something?

  110. 110.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Dread: The belief is things will be so bad that it will actually create the desired revolution. That this is not how revolutions actually start seems to be beyond the grasp of these “strategic thinkers”. They also seem to ignore the fact that actual revolutions are violent, usually very much so. My guess is that Susan Sarandon, while she has a personal security detail, does not have a lot of experience firing real guns as opposed to movie props.

  112. 112.

    JMG

    I am happy to say I’ll be leaving on Memorial Day for three weeks in France and the Basque country. But enough bragging. What really interests me is that I’ll bet the political situation here, to which I intend to pay not the slightest attention, will not change one iota in those three weeks. The Berniebots will still be bitching, Trump will still be tweeting, the polls will still be close so the other Democrats will be fretting, etc. It’s the same trench warfare as 2012.

  113. 113.

    Amaranthine RBG

    Hopefully the Hilldo attack dogs will dial it back a bit and not further alienate Sander’s supporters to try and bring them in the tent.

    The Balloon Juice outreach program is “Fuck all of you Berniebro crybabies. Fuck you. … Why aren’t you supporting Clinton? No, really FUCK YOU. I’ve had enough of you people.”

  116. 116.

    cokane

    honestly Cole, youre just taking this shit way too seriously. The race is all but wrapped up. Maybe just lay off the cable news and twitter for a bit.

  117. 117.

    Kropadope

    @FlipYrWhig: I’m don’t have an opinion on his relative masculinity. He is, however, the most insecure person I’ve ever seen run for president.

  119. 119.

    Peale

    @FlyingToaster: seriously? Still griping about that ACA ad campaign from five years ago? Of course those manly men don’t have time to scan healthcare choices…that would cut into their crying time nursing grudges from junior high.

  123. 123.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    Heh. I’m sipping red wine too, but it’s still today here for another couple of hours. Nevertheless, I *clink* my glass to yours.

  125. 125.

    FlyingToaster

    @Peale: I think you were aiming at someone else; I was talking about Rolling-in-it’s pie choices.

  126. 126.

    Mnemosyne

    @FlipYrWhig:

    He seems massively insecure with his masculinity, frankly. It’s always the guys who feel insecure who have to run around calling other men “hermaphrodites” to make themselves feel better.

    Rosey Grier was a needlepoint master and made it a second career after he retired from football. Why? Because he didn’t give a fuck if morons tried to say it wasn’t masculine or some bullshit.

  129. 129.

    Davis X. Machina

    @Dread:

    I honestly cannot wrap my head around the idea that the best way to see a progressive future is to ensure that the conservative agenda is enacted for the next 20 years via Derp Fuhrer and his SCOTUS picks.

    The dialectic is a harsh mistress.

  130. 130.

    Kropadope

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The belief is things will be so bad that it will actually create the desired revolution. That this is not how revolutions actually start seems to be beyond the grasp of these “strategic thinkers”.

    I think the Bread Revolution is where people got that idea.

  132. 132.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    No, we won’t, so don’t waste your breath or time coming here to ask us in your annoying passive aggressive manner. Fuck off and grow up, and go away forever. No one here gives a shit about you.

  134. 134.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Amaranthine RBG: I tell you what. When Bernie concedes, I’ll change my outreach tactics. In meantime, while people suggest that I am, by proxy, a closet Republican warmonger with no principles…..

  135. 135.

    Adam L Silverman

    @gwangung: Yep. All depends on who is in power and who is revolting and what they’re revolting about. And what they intend to do should they win.

  136. 136.

    LAO

    @Adam L Silverman: I saw it, I think it may qualify you as a “beta white knight” in the alternative universe of the insecure, socially maladjusted MRAs. Of which, it is evident that RU is a member of. Sad!

    @BillinGlendaleCA: yes. To be clear, very small penises.

  138. 138.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kropadope: Could be, but as I’m gluten free these days because I’ve developed a gluten intolerance, I couldn’t say for sure.

  140. 140.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well, given that I historically find your reading comprehension questionable, I’ll make a point to avoid rhubarb if I ever need to serve you food, just in case.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    while people suggest that I am, by proxy, a closet Republican warmonger with no principles…..

    You always seemed pretty open about it.

  143. 143.

    Adam L Silverman

    @LAO: I don’t understand any of that. (Nods and smiles while slowly backing away…)

  147. 147.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    @John Cole:

    I think it is because I feel kind of betrayed.

    Maybe it’s me, but for the most part politicians don’t inspire me to feel anything other than wary as hell. Obama’s been an exception on occasion, but even when I’ve felt proud or ever-so-slightly inspired, it’s always been with an undercurrent of “this man better not fuck this up” — I’m always waiting to find out he was a serial kitten killer or something this entire time, always too good to be true.

    So Bernie’s out only for himself? Shocking. The man’s not my friend and he doesn’t give a fuck about me. Hillary doesn’t give a fuck either. But at least the Democratic strategy to gain and hold on to power involves throwing us lowly squabs a bone occasionally (or some actual meat, in the case of the ACA and new overtime rules), as opposed to the Republican approach, which is to keep people from voting and hasten our deaths whenever possible.

    So no, they can’t betray us because they never gave a fuck about us to begin with.

    (Feeling cynical tonight — waiting for Wall Street to demand that my company burn itself to the ground.)

  148. 148.

    Patricia Kayden

    @AkaDad: The whole damn world is rigged against Bernie!
    O’Donnell just showed a a Fox News poll where Trump beats Secretary Clinton (very narrowly). Sigh.

  149. 149.

    gwangung

    @Adam L Silverman: In their imagined revolution, there’s not going to be just two sides, either. Multiple factions with multiple motivations, and not all of them ready to use armed action effectively to meet their goals.

  151. 151.

    rk

    @Mike J:

    There were two reasons I became a citizen. One was to cast a vote against Bush in 2004. The second was because of the horrendous law passed by a dimwitted republican congress that if an immigrant gets convicted of a felony they go back to their home countries. There are countless cases of permanent residents who when they went to apply for citizenship were sent back to their country of origin because of some felony on their record. I remember one case in particular where a woman slapped her roommate in college and was charged with a felony. Many years later when she applied to become a US citizen she was sent back to Germany despite the fact that she had come to thee US as a child, knew no one there had a family and grown kids in the US.
    I can understand how Latinos feel. It does not matter if you’re legal. If you’re not white many white people assume you’re illegal or are on welfare. Also there’s no guarantee that the govt may pass some laws which will either mess up your permanent resident status or prevent you from becoming a citizen. I’m sure Trump terrifies a lot of Latinos just like Bush and the right wing 9/11 rhetoric scared me into taking action (otherwise I’d have procrastinated over the paperwork forever).
    I mean really! The candidate for POTUS of a major party has been endorsed by the KKK and storm front. A lot of non whites have a very personal stake in this. They don’t have the luxury of sitting this election out (unlike Bernie Sander’s supporters).

  154. 154.

    Adam L Silverman

    Anyone know what the record number of the use of fucks is in the comments thread for a single post? As in how many in toto? Wondering whether we should try to break the record or something.

  160. 160.

    MobiusKlein

    In SF today, I saw kid carrying a Bernie sign roughly saying “Bernie will end inequality”.

    I don’t mind inspirational messages, but ending all inequality is actually impossible. Can we have a tiny amount of grownup expectations from the Bernie supporters?

  162. 162.

    JMG

    @Patricia Kayden: Oh, I think we have to assume a Trump presidency is quite possible, if not quite as likely as a Clinton presidency. White nationalism plus ignorance is always going to be close to a majority in this country. In my darker moments, I think it’d be fine to see his marks realize how they’ve been had. But they’d just take it out on their hate objects, including their wives. Dumb people get that way in large part by never admitting they’re wrong.

  163. 163.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Davis X. Machina: Along with math, logic doesn’t seem to be his strong suit either. He has been railing against the corrupt establishment of the Democratic party and he thinks that they (super delegates) are going to anoint him as the nominee. Deluded grandpa is deluded.

  165. 165.

    joel hanes

    @FlyingToaster:

    Rhubarb? Nobody eats that shit

    My grandma’s rhubarb jam would make you take those words right back. And eat them.

    But the absolute best was her 50/50 rhubarb/strawberry pie, lattice crust with a touch too much salt.
    If I had one, I wouldn’t share.

    It is true that the leaves are poisonous.

  167. 167.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman:

    They also seem to ignore the fact that actual revolutions are violent, usually very much so. My guess is that Susan Sarandon, while she has a personal security detail, does not have a lot of experience firing real guns as opposed to movie props.

    That revolutions are violent disrupts the narrative, so of course that minor detail is ignored. And the irony of someone with a security detail urging revolution is almost painful.

    @Kropadope:

    He is, however, the most insecure person I’ve ever seen run for president.

    Insecure, thin-skinned, and nasty. Truly a winning combination in a presidential election.

  169. 169.

    Adam L Silverman

    @redshirt: I’m not actively trying to wipe it out of existence or violently trying to stop others from eating it, my system just no longer wants to process it. Overall its not been too big an adjustment. Basically I’m back on the high protein, fruits, vegetables, brown rice, oatmeal training diet I was on back from 2005-2008. I’ve already lost almost two inches around the middle, which is nice!

  170. 170.

    smith

    @gwangung:

    In their imagined revolution, there’s not going to be just two sides, either. Multiple factions with multiple motivations, and not all of them ready to use armed action effectively

    Sort of like Syria.

  174. 174.

    Ella inNew Mexico

    So, now that I’ve accepted Hilary as the inevitable candidate, I want her to win. Is anyone else out there concerned about the polls showing fucktard Trump is beating her? Cuz I am.

    And as far as I can tell, it is not because Sanders is still in the race- this has been an issue for months- she polls worse than Sanders against the R’s going back to January.

    Somehow, this is not fucking amusing.

  175. 175.

    gwangung

    @rk:

    I mean really! The candidate for POTUS of a major party has been endorsed by the KKK and storm front. A lot of non whites have a very personal stake in this. They don’t have the luxury of sitting this election out

    That’s just a rather unimportant special interest to a lot of them. Not their ox being gored.

  180. 180.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Patricia Kayden: O’Donnell just showed a a Fox News poll where Trump beats Secretary Clinton (very narrowly). Sigh.

    I wonder if O’Donnell’s grudge against Clinton is an aging Establishmentarian’s (did you know he used to be the most important Senate Staffer on the Senate Staff?) last chance to be a radical, or if like Tweety there’s a spurned offer of his services to some tubby guy in the White House back in the nineties?

    As I type that, LOD was a Moynihan protege, I believe? Daniel Pat was not fond of the Clintons, IIRC.

  183. 183.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Ella inNew Mexico: And as far as I can tell, it is not because Sanders is still in the race- this has been an issue for months-

    Might be, because he’s spent the last five months of that race telling people her and her corrupt speeches are the only thing standing between them and a tax-free version of Nordic Social Democracy. Just a thought.

  187. 187.

    Adam L Silverman

    @gwangung: It would be very, very ugly. There are a lot of very strong fault lines in American society, politics, religion, and economics. Some of these are exacerbated by region, some by urban versus rural. And there are a lot of people that would be willing to embrace the complete freedom (read breakdown in any and all norms) that an actual revolution would usher in. They have both real and imagined (and for certain groups its more imagined than real) grievances and they would love the chance to violently settle the score.

    Its as whacked an idea, and equally uninformed, as the call for a Constitutional Convention. If you do that, its the end of the experiment and the Union.

  188. 188.

    gwangung

    @Ella inNew Mexico: Aside from all the other answers, the problem of late 90s politics was to get too wrapped up in the daily news churn and the variability of polling. Concentrating on the big picture is helpful

  190. 190.

    Kropadope

    @MobiusKlein:

    In SF today, I saw kid carrying a Bernie sign roughly saying “Bernie will end inequality”.

    I don’t mind inspirational messages, but ending all inequality is actually impossible. Can we have a tiny amount of grownup expectations from the Bernie supporters?

    You said yourself it was a kid. What do you expect?

  191. 191.

    trollhattan

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Well fuck, that’s a fucking great question about fucks and the counting thereof (counting fucks, not questions because that would be stupid as fuck). I’d like to add that May fucking 18th is too fucking early for the fucking temperature to hit ninety fucking seven fucking degrees.

    I’m now out of fucks.

  192. 192.

    Llelldorin

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Well, that raises a fucking important question. What the fuck are we counting, instances of fuck or of fuck\w* ? If it’s the former we’re going to miss a fucking lot of fucks.

  194. 194.

    Monala

    I am struggling to put to words some of what I am feeling about the Sanders/Clinton divide. But one issue I am trying to work through is the criticism that either Clinton and her supporters are saying: “We won’t change anything, but vote for HRC to stop Trump!” or they are saying, “Everything’s great, vote for us!” and are ignoring people’s real pain.

    I’m thinking about the link Chris posted in the last thread. It does describe some very real issues that we need to deal with. And yet it seems to suggest that thinks are worse today than, say, 20 or 30 years ago, in ways that don’t quite ring true to me.

    For example, the author suggests that today’s opioid crisis is worse than the AIDS crisis at its height (!) because at least gay men had a community they rallied together – but no one cares about rural and Rust Belt addicts. This also ignores than 20-30 years ago, the African American community was being devastated by the crack epidemic.

    Then there was this part:

    It used to be that people were uninsured and if they got seriously sick they’d declare bankruptcy and lose the farm, but now they have a (mandatory) $1k/month plan with a $5k deductible: they’ll still declare bankruptcy and lose the farm if they get sick, but in the meantime they pay a shit-ton to the shareholders of United Healthcare, or Aetna, or whoever.

    So the past was better? I put my family out as exhibit A. My husband, a diabetic with heart issues was uninsured (and uninsurable) before the ACA. Even when the ACA came into effect, we were in close to the worst situation (the worst were people who fall into the Medicare gap). Because I was insured (though my employer, which only insures the employee), we fell into a gap that disallowed subsidies, even though our income would have otherwise qualified us, so we had to pay for the plan 100%. Plus, my husband was over 50, which meant that we had to pay the highest rate for any plan, other than people over age 60 but too young for Medicare. And we didn’t pay anywhere close to $1k with a $5k deductible. It was $400 with a $1500 deductible, but a lot of services were offered before the deductible even kicked in (3 free office visits, 2 free labs, a few other stuff). And yes, paying $400 a month was very hard, but it was life-saving for my husband. 20-30 years ago, he would have died. Again, we were a worse-off exception, caught in a bind because of my insured status – most people at our income level and my husband’s age would have qualified for subsidies.

    I guess I’m trying to figure out how you both acknowledge the very serious issues that exist, but also don’t ignore the way things have improved for the better.

  195. 195.

    MobiusKlein

    @Kropadope: I expect their parents to give them a less stupid sign. It was also a pre-printed sign, not homegrown.

    (kid mean not a teen yet)

  196. 196.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mike J:

    “Orgone boxes” makes me think of Orson Bean, and Orson Bean makes me think of Andrew Breitbart, and Andrew Breitbart makes me want to grab an orgone box and throw up in it.

    Circle of life, yo.

  199. 199.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Daniel Pat was a well spoken racist.

    As for the polls, the most recent RealClear Politics poll (also a conservative outlet, but not Fox) has Secretary Clinton way up over Trump.

  201. 201.

    FlyingToaster

    @joel hanes: Doubtful. I was a cherry cobbler kid; my behind-the-back-fence neighbor with the strawberry and rhubarb never convinced me or any of my sibs. My dad liked it, but he also liked beets…

  204. 204.

    Miss Bianca

    I think this goes beyond pretty amusing…I think it’s fucking hilarious.

    But then…Ich bin kleine Cupcake von Satan gebacken. So I would think that.

  206. 206.

    FlyingToaster

    Remember, everyone, national polls are worth less than the fish heads you wrap in them.

    And this far out, so are state polls. Check back after the conventions.

  209. 209.

    Gelfling 545

    @Amaranthine RBG “

    Hopefully the Hilldo attack dogs will dial it back a bit…….”

    Yeah. That sentence right there just screams of your ardentdesire for party unity.

  211. 211.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Monala:

    I guess I’m trying to figure out how you both acknowledge the very serious issues that exist, but also don’t ignore the way things have improved for the better.

    …sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest…

  212. 212.

    redshirt

    @Monala: Hillary represents the continuation of Obama’s progress; Bernie represents… Bernie?

    We need to consolidate our gains, continue to progress, and build the foundations for liberal rule for the next century. Bernie can offer nothing towards these goals.

  213. 213.

    Gin & Tonic

    @SiubhanDuinne: And Orson Bean was born in Burlington, Vermont, erstwhile home of a candidate for the Democratic nomination for President of the US. Conspiracies within conspiracies.

  217. 217.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mike J: There was a clip that Olberman used to play on Countdown of a drug dealer who, when being arraigned, was referred to as a bank robber by the judge. He then went on an epic rant along the lines of: “Fuck, your Honor, I’m not the motherfucker bank robber, I’m the motherfucking drug dealer. The motherfucking bank robber owes me the motherfucking money. I’m a motherfucking drug dealer!” Even my google-fu has been unable to find that clip. It is hilarious!

  221. 221.

    trollhattan

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Ah, the pre-zica days, those were simpler…hey, wait, if it’s also transmitted by sex do I get to pick my vector?

    Winning.

  222. 222.

    Kropadope

    @MobiusKlein:

    I expect their parents to give them a less stupid sign. It was also a pre-printed sign, not homegrown.

    The night Obama got elected, they interviewed a grown adult woman who thought Obama’s election would mean that she’s have totally free healthcare and no mortgage. Every single candidate has stupid supporters, cut the child some slack.

  226. 226.

    benw

    Meanwhile, if Hillary supporters talked about other sports like they talk about the election:

    SOCCER (aka non-American football): sure, she was paid a LOT of money by the people who are being indicted in the current FIFA corruption scandals for the World Cup. But that’s no biggie. No, you don’t need to see the transcripts. Of course she’ll regulate the hell out of those people who paid her all that cash. I just know it!

    BASKETBALL: the most important things are fundamentals and a huge knowledge of the game. Sure, it’s boring, but good spacing and defense wins championships! Plodding with incremental steps to victory is the only way to get things done. And now here’s this Steph Curry, thinking he can just waltz in and win! Who does he think he is? He only chucks 3s! How long has he really been in the NBA? The NBA has only made him successful recently by changing the rules on hand-checking guards. Without that, he’s just another asshole back-bencher. Fuck him!

    ETA: Alexandra’s are awesome.

  227. 227.

    LAO

    @Omnes Omnibus: Fair enough.

    Men’s Rights Activists (MRAs) are a particularly misogynistic group — of mostly men — who believe that men who claim to be feminists or supportive of feminism are “Beta white knights” It is meant as an insult because all true manly men aspire to be an Alpha male — the kind of man, who knows how to put a bitch in her place. This site does a great job monitoring and mocking the MRAs. (Not that I’m assigning homework)

    Also, the reference to “third wave feminists” is also out of the MRA play book.

    @Adam L Silverman: For what it’s worth — I didn’t mean it as an insult.

    I’m fucking done!

  230. 230.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Monala:

    “We won’t change anything, but vote for HRC to stop Trump!” or they are saying, “Everything’s great, vote for us!” and are ignoring people’s real pain.

    This Clinton supporter isn’t saying either of those things. I see that she has a really good set of goals (I looked at her website) and I think two other things: 1. She has a better chance of being elected than Sanders, and 2. if elected, she has a better chance of getting more of her agenda accomplished than Sanders does.

    The whys for this I have typed many time before and I can’t be arsed to do it again.

  234. 234.

    The Dangerman

    @Ella inNew Mexico:

    Somehow, this is not fucking amusing.

    Hillary will win … but it will be closer than it should be (not in CA for those that are still incensed I won’t vote for anyone for President).

    Hillary’s problem is twofold; she’s a terrible candidate and she has a record (for example, the vote for the Iraq War is an automatic DQ in my book)….

    …but Trump’s “record” will catch up to him, too. It’s just a different kind of record is all. Trump has no chance in the end.

    ETA: Yes, yes, I know, I’m not a Hillary voter, so I’m a Trump stroking, misogynist, anti-abortion troglodyte. Spare me.

  235. 235.

    Gin & Tonic

    @divF: Ooh, then I broke the rules, as I remember a very nice October weekend in, yes, Vermont. Vive la revolution.

  237. 237.

    amk

    Instead of freaking about fucking “polls” six months out, one could concentrate on getting the fucking voters to the actual fucking polls.

  244. 244.

    Tom Q

    @SiubhanDuinne: So I’m not the only one who read “Me and the Orgone”?

    I was VERY interested in the Reichian stuff back then, and even contacted Bean about it. He wrote me an extremely nice letter in return. Which made it very painful for me to find out he’d turned into a RWNJ alongside his son-in-law Breitbart.

  247. 247.

    Adam L Silverman

    @LAO: I know you didn’t. And I read We Hunted the Mammoth on occasion for sheer amusement.

  248. 248.

    kd bart

    Pens are up 4-1 in the third but according to the Bernie Bros that’s only because they’re only counting the goals scored and not the goals Tampa would’ve scored if the Pens were required not to use a goalie.

  249. 249.

    gwangung

    @redshirt:

    Hillary represents the continuation of Obama’s progress; Bernie represents… Bernie?

    We need to consolidate our gains, continue to progress, and build the foundations for liberal rule for the next century. Bernie can offer nothing towards these goals.

    It’s clear to me that Sanders hasn’t gamed out what’s going to happen when he introduces his changes (and equally clear to me that Obama DID). It doesn’t seem to have sunk in that he’s going to have, at best, political capital for just one major change. This is in contrast to Clinton, who’ll spread her capital over several fronts, for more modest change.

    Incremental change is STILL good. And it’s better than no change, let alone going backwards (people seemed to have forgotten 2000-08, and that we’re STILL trying to comb out all the burrowed snakes from the executive branch leftover from those two terms).

  253. 253.

    schrodinger's cat

    With friends like Bernistas who needs enemies? They are here and talking smack about Democrats and Hillary’s negatives and spreading doom and gloom. They are worse than straight up Republican trolls like Unlimited Campaign Cash. Ignore them.

  256. 256.

    sinnedbackwards

    @Baud: Since only 93% of the Kentucky democratic primary vote went to Hillz or Bernz, didn’t 7% go to Baud? And wasn’t that enough if you moved the decimal point to win? At least a delegate or two? Enquiring minds are highly unengaged.

  259. 259.

    Fair Economist

    @Monala:

    I’m thinking about the link Chris posted in the last thread. It does describe some very real issues that we need to deal with. And yet it seems to suggest that thinks are worse today than, say, 20 or 30 years ago, in ways that don’t quite ring true to me.

    For example, the author suggests that today’s opioid crisis is worse than the AIDS crisis at its height because at least gay men had a community they rallied together – but no one cares about rural and Rust Belt addicts. This also ignores than 20-30 years ago, the African American community was being devastated by crack.

    First of all, Hillary actually *does* have proposals to help the kind of people depicted in that essay. She’s actually more concerned about them than anybody else. She wants to raise the minimum wage, a lot, but not *too* much for rural areas. Bernie’s all aboard the Fight for Fifteen, which might be fine for rural areas – but also might not (we don’t know) – and he doesn’t care. Hillary’s also been the #1 candidate in the race pushing for drug treatment and averting opiate addiction. Now the people in the essay may not know this, because Fox News and Clear Channel sure as – um – fuck – don’t, and the author probably just didn’t bother to find out, but it’s still true.

    On the second issue, while the opiate epidemic is as bad as AIDS for the entire country, it’s still not nearly as bad for members of the affected communities. Although the death figures are similar, there are WAY more working-class whites in this country today than there were out gay men in the ’80s. I’d guesstimate about 20 times as many. So the mortality rate for working class whites is only a small fraction of what it was for gay men in the 80’s. It’s a terrible thing and we really need to do something about it, but it doesn’t even begin to approach being an existential threat to the existence of the community.

  264. 264.

    Major Major Major Major

    @benw: Curry is fundamentally a team player like the rest of the Warriors and has shown that slow and steady wins the race, especially against one-man diva operations like the Cavs. Come on you aren’t even trying.

  267. 267.

    Miss Bianca

    @FlyingToaster: Untrue. I eat rhubarb. And not under fucking compulsion. I’ll now join the line of useless fucks I see lining up over on the side here.

  269. 269.

    amk

    Let’s all kill the fucking fuck meme so that cole will be fucked if he uses it any more in this fucking bleg.

  271. 271.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @debbie: She’s closing in on 70% negatives in Ohio, and it’s nothing to do with Sanders.

    And yet she beat him in the primary by… 15 points, wasn’t it?

    And was Ohio the only state where he didn’t harp endlessly on how corrupt she and the Democratic Party are? It’s amazing how the Sanders campaign, which was revolutionary and magical and invincible (but for people who cheated by voting and following rules) has now, retroactively, become utterly ineffective when he talked about Hillary Clinton.

  272. 272.

    Mnemosyne

    @LAO:

    I ended up at the linked site via Raised By Narcissists on Reddit. PUAs and MRAs are either sad little boys desperately trying to win abusive mommy or daddy’s love by attaching themselves to someone just as emotionally abusive, or developed their very own cluster B personality disorder to cope. Conservatives telling them they just need to man up and be even more abusive in response to their damage is counterproductive, to say the least.

  274. 274.

    redshirt

    @LAO: Seriously though I feel there’s almost a direct 1 for 1 relationship between the MRA/GamerGate dudes and the BernieBros. It’s a puzzling development that I can’t quite comprehend.

  275. 275.

    Adam L Silverman

    @FlyingToaster: I know, I’m the one that put it in that thread. She had it in English and wanted to know the German. So I used my handy dandy translator app and the rest is history.

  276. 276.

    The Dangerman

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    ….you are just an entitled douchebag.

    Uh-huh. Douchebag I get (since it basically means nothing but, when real insults are beyond one’s capacity, I suppose it will do well enough)….

    …but, seriously, what makes me “entitled”? I find that quite curious. Seriously.

  277. 277.

    Miss Bianca

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ll be over in the corner. Drooling piteously, whispering, “cusssstaaarrrd”…

    Hunter S. Thompson opined that there was nothing more pathetic than a man in the throes of an ether binge. He obviously never saw a flan addict.

  278. 278.

    Kropadope

    @gwangung: I think there are some I agree with and some I disagree with. But she has George W. Bush’s tendency toward only pushing hard on the bad ones.

  279. 279.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Tom Q:

    I’m actually pretty amazed that someone besides me has even heard of “Me and the Orgone.” Oh yes, I was fascinated by Reich for a (mercifully) brief period, and at one point, it seemed very cool to watch Orson Bean on TV all the time knowing that he was hanging out in orgone accumulators (for the record, I never did).

  280. 280.

    FlyingToaster

    @Miss Bianca: Again, jeebus, I was mocking the troll’s pie lifestyle.

    Seriously, the amount of sugar it takes to get me to eat certain foods is deranged. And since there’s the diabeetus* in my future, I’m not even going to go there.

    * Gestational diabetes at age 46. The numbers they gave me was a 50% chance of Type II by age 74. My odds just suck.

  285. 285.

    Tom Q

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The woman had spectacular approval ratings two years ago, and still quite good approvals just a year ago despite GOPers bailing on her when she became a candidate. I’d like someone to explain what horrific things Hillary did on her own to bring those numbers down over the past few months.

    “Sanders had nothing to do with it.” My ass.

  286. 286.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kropadope: yeah, she never made any real effort on health care reform, women’s rights, gay rights, the environment…

  289. 289.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca: Good flan is a thing of beauty. One recommendation I always make, whether its flan or creme brulee, is to use duck eggs. The yolks have a higher fat content, so you get a richer mouthfeel from the final product.

  290. 290.

    benw

    @ecomcon: I take full responsibility for using Steph in my little joke, he’s a great player. No need to drop the hammer on Cole or Alexandra, unless you are cursing them out for some other reason.

    @Major Major Major Major: Steph and GS are great and I confess to taking some liberties, but I needed a hot, young player on a championship-contender to make the joke work.

    Come on you aren’t even trying.

    That’s a very hurtful and negative thing to say, 4M. I worked very hard on my joke.

  291. 291.

    Major Major Major Major

    @redshirt: They’re a demographic that by rights should be liberal but feel left behind–tech-savvy nerdy white male millenials. They feel entitled to their say in their favored genres and feel like they’ve been vindicated by the popularity of geekdom without having reaped any of the benefits, even though they had a shitty time in high school. They suffered slightly, compared to other straight white males, so they feel owed something. Naturally it’s money and women. But liberalism has left them behind by focusing on the actually downtrodden.

  292. 292.

    grandpa john

    @FlyingToaster: Also the important part of determining how reliable a given poll is is in the crosstabs, something that the majority of people never look at and probably don’t even realize they exist,
    Any poll with out the cross tabs available is worthless.

  293. 293.

    kd bart

    @Davis X. Machina: So Bernie’s strategy basically at this time is that if I can’t win, I’m just going to burn the whole house down and make sure we all lose. What a bitter man he is.

  297. 297.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kropadope:

    But she has George W. Bush’s tendency toward only pushing hard on the bad ones.

    You mean like healthcare reform? It was called “Hillarycare” for a reason, you know.

  298. 298.

    gwangung

    @Kropadope: Like CHIP? We know she pushed hard on that one. But I can’t say that’s a bad one. And what about reproductive rights? How has she been poor there?

    How does her record stack up on the whole? I’ve no doubt there are poor policies she’s pushed; but what’s her balance?

  299. 299.

    Tom Q

    @SiubhanDuinne: I never did, either…though I got the name/number of the Reichian therapist Bean used, and a friend went for a consultation with him one day. (It never went beyond that.)

    I did go visit the 15th Street School — a Summerhill-like place that Bean founded during the 60s/70s. He really seemed like a good, thoughtful guy back then, which is why I’ve found his late-in-life turn so disheartening.

  300. 300.

    The Dangerman

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Straight, hetero, nominally Christian, white dude?

    Let’s see. Yes, yes (in the Department of Redundancy Department sense), yes (though I’d prefer it if my Buddhist tendencies were recognized, too), and yes. Not much I can do about any of those…

    …but I still don’t get entitled. Sorry.

    ETA: Dude (if I read you correctly), it’s too bad you don’t know me IRL; I’m about as far away from entitled, at least in an economic sense, as you can get. But, hey, carry on.

  302. 302.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Just heard that the New Hampshire poll has Hillary losing millennials to Trump. Millennials. To Trump.

    This is pretty shitty.

  304. 304.

    MobiusKlein

    @Kropadope: pre-printed means some person printed hundreds of signs just like it, with a stupid, impossible, unachievable slogan.

    I am so over that.

  305. 305.

    FlyingToaster

    @grandpa john: Exactly. We all learned about that when Kos had to very abruptly switch polling companies.

    Since Fox doesn’t release crosstabs, you have to see if Nate Silver or Sam Wang or one of the other quants wastes their time taking it apart. Or points out “It’s FOX. They called 73 grandparents of staff and pulled the rest of the numbers out their ass.”

  307. 307.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @debbie: A shit ton of people just do not like her.

    again, the primary results suggest more than a few do

    Her negatives have nothing to do with Sanders.

    that strikes me as a somewhat less than ingenuous statement. The embittered, narcissistic old crank and his embittered, narcissistic surrogates (West, Moore, Sarandon) have been attacking her for months. I despise him, but even I acknowledge he ran an effective, if more than a little dishonest, campaign.

  308. 308.

    different-church-lady

    @Tom Q:

    I’d like someone to explain what horrific things Hillary did on her own to bring those numbers down over the past few months.

    She ran for president. Duh.

  310. 310.

    Soylent Green

    Suppose Bernie won the nom. Would his ardent followers work hard to support and GOTV for all downticket races? On election day, would they vote the Democratic ticket or refuse to vote for candidates not deemed sufficiently pure? Suppose Bernie got elected. Without the Congress, he would just be an old man with an onion on his belt. He wouldn’t have Clinton’s policy chops or party loyalties, or Obama’s brilliance at getting things done while being obstructed. I think a Sanders administration would be a lame duck from the start. It doesn’t matter how wonderfully progressive his goals are if he can’t make any progress.

  315. 315.

    Mnemosyne

    @LAO:

    They have the potential to be a threat, because they have an Internet full of enablers behind them, but fortunately not many of them break out of the herd. Being an MRA was not that kid’s only problem — he had pre-existing mental health issues as well, which only increased his tendency towards rage and paranoia. Paranoid personality disorder is in cluster B, too.

    ETA: Whoops, sorry — PPD is actually in cluster A. That’s what I get for not checking before I post.

  321. 321.

    Miss Bianca

    @LAO: You *what*? That’s like reading Phyllis Schlafly for fun. *shudder*.

    hmm…MRAs, MRSs…I may have to find some like-minded souls to revive Ladies Against Women with.

  325. 325.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @The Dangerman

    : …but I still don’t get entitled. Sorry.

    Well, there is your problem. BTW, I fit all of those categories and probably have better WASPy claims than you can manage. The point is that we can’t ever really know what people without our advantage went through. Things that they had to fight for that we took for granted. Are you really too dumb to get that?

  326. 326.

    Kropadope

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    yeah, she never made any real effort on health care reform

    Certainly didn’t make any effort to get Congress on board or include Congress in the process

    women’s rights

    Do speeches count?

    gay rights

    Does hopping on the bandwagon super late count?

    the environment…

    Nothing comes to mind. How much environmental damage does endless war cause, I wonder?

  327. 327.

    BlueDWarrior

    @Ramping Up: I would argue this, assuming you are making a good faith argument. It’s not feminists that have emasculated men, it’s machines. A robots and their constituent software counterparts are progressively making men more and more redundant in heavy industry where they would have an advantage over weaker men and women.

    So, once again assuming a good faith argument, I would say you and your fellow Alphas should be screaming at the car-building robot as much as you are the third/fourth-wave feminist on the college campus.

    You know, assuming you aren’t a troll and all.

  334. 334.

    Miss Bianca

    @FlyingToaster: In my family too. So I actually don’t eat rhubarb anymore. On the other hand, I still buy 10-lb sacks of sugar because the hummingbirds are addicts. Oh, I try to tell them of the dangers, I try to interest them in a low-carb lifestyle, but they just dive bomb my head until I give ’em their White Death Crack. What’s a girl to do

  339. 339.

    Miss Bianca

    @LAO: Oh, thank Goddess. Well, you (and they) sure fooled me with that name. So, they *are* like Ladies Against Women, then. Cool!

  341. 341.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @FlyingToaster: Thanks. I can’t find millennials crosstabs, but they keep quoting it with that specificity. Supposedly, her unfavorables with that group is 80%

  344. 344.

    Raven Onthill

    @Ella inNew Mexico: the estimable Sam Wang estimates the probability of a Clinton win at 70% (see, for instance, here), but also cautions that there is time for this to change, that some states which would ordinarily be reliably red or blue might change because Trump is such an odd candidate.

  348. 348.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kropadope:

    Certainly didn’t make any effort to get Congress on board or include Congress in the process

    Be careful moving those goalposts, you’ll throw your back out.

  350. 350.

    FlyingToaster

    @Miss Bianca: I don’t think you CAN give a hummingbird diabetes. Their diet w/o humans is sucrose-in-suspension, so naturally if you don’t give it to them you must be slacking.

    I miss hummingbirds. The downside of living in the frozen north. Along with winters of 110″ of snow.

  351. 351.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kropadope: since, if memory serves, you’re one of the few Bernie! dead-enders who wasn’t part of the Blame Obama First crowd, I’m gonna guess you’re not aware of how much your petulant critiques echo those of the right, the Professional Left and (I’ll say it) Clinton ’08 (‘just a speech’)

  353. 353.

    Kropadope

    @gwangung: Wasn’t CHIP from when she was first lady? Most of the rest of the time that doesn’t count. I look at that as doing the bare minimum after her sabotage job on the universal healthcare law.

    And what about reproductive rights?

    She voted “correctly” most of the time, good for her. Can you point to anywhere she’s gone above and beyond to protect reproductive freedoms?

    As far as her balance, she has a handful of slightly good things she’s done and a handful of devastatingly terrible things. Ob balance, she’s been pretty bad. I’d pretty much rather vote for any Democrat, except perhaps Alan Grayson and Zell Miller.

  354. 354.

    Renie

    @different-church-lady: hope you’re still here to read this but I could not stop laughing when I was reading all your ‘good-bye’ postings to Bob/Robert/Roberta. I was laughing so much my husband came back here to see what was going on!

  355. 355.

    redshirt

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I keep a bird journal and so I know by previous observation that the hummingbirds have consistently returned to my mountain redoubt in the first two weeks of May. So far this year, though, no hummingbirds. I put their sugar out, but nothing so far.

  357. 357.

    Kropadope

    @Mnemosyne:

    Be careful moving those goalposts, you’ll throw your back out.

    Getting Congress on board is pretty important. Really, pretty much the entire shebang. I’m actually pretty sure the whole thing was a deliberate sabotage.

  359. 359.

    The Dangerman

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The point is that we can’t ever really know what people without our advantage went through.

    Of course not, if you are going to cherry-pick the parameters…

    …but, I assure you, as someone born basically on the wrong side of the tracks, as being the first in my Family to go to college, as someone born with a physical disfigurement that caused me to be called a freak regularly through my schooling (it was corrected after undergraduate school), as someone that has experienced homelessness and slept in my car, and as a person presently daily caring for both an Octagenarian Mother with increasing dementia and regularly caring for Septuagenarian Uncle with long-term Parkinson’s (I manage all of his affairs because I am his Court Appointed Consevator, which is often fun given events like this past weekend when I was called by the Hospital ER asking me if I authorized a DNR), well, maybe what I have personally gone through counts for something, too.

    See? I can cherry pick, too.

    Entitled? Fuck off.

  362. 362.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’m actually pretty sure the whole thing was a deliberate sabotage.

    good christ

  363. 363.

    FlyingToaster

    @Dog Dawg Damn: The problem is they ran the questions several different ways, but amalgamated the results to include the Romneybot and Dead-Woman-Walking Ayotte. So it’s funky.

    It looks like they underpolled women (or overpolled men) age 18-29, when comparing the column raw numbers on page 1 (with 18-29) and page 2 (18-49). Which would account for that 80% looking different than the 58% unfavorables tie on page 2.

    Weighting is also going to figure big; I would have to go find the current demo breakdowns on NH, but there are a fuckton of Massholes-in-exile up there. Mostly claiming to flee “taxes” and getting hammered by NH’s property tax instead :) So you’ll have a larger contingent of 30-49 than the national average.

  364. 364.

    Kropadope

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Do elaborate. I pretty sure the only things my critiques echo are her record, which has never been as impressive as she has tried to make out. Obama in 08 had built a stronger record of accomplishment in half the time, yet she harped on him as being naïve and unprepared. Bernie’s no Obama, but I’d put him at least as comparable to Hillary, minus the blithe destruction of millions of people.

  365. 365.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @The Dangerman: You dipshit. If you don’t understand that being white puts you ahead of every minority with the same family situation, then you are dumber than a bag of hammers.

  367. 367.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @FlyingToaster: wow, thanks. i was blown away by the gender gap being so almost equally lopsided, but him doing worse than woman with her, but keeping it so close.

  368. 368.

    SiubhanDuinne

    O/T.

    SHIT.

    An Egypt Air flight has disappeared between Paris and Cairo.

    Here we go again.

  369. 369.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kropadope:

    I look at that as doing the bare minimum after her sabotage job on the universal healthcare law.

    I see you’ve been reading Andrew Sullivan again. You probably shouldn’t take the word of a guy who published a false article about Hillarycare when evaluating who was actually to blame.

    Of course, I was a young adult when all that happened, and followed it closely. Did you do an elementary school science project on it?

  372. 372.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I also bet that he has never visited her website and bases his views on secondary sources and his prejudices.

    I have, where do you think I sent my donation from?

    I’ve stated repeatedly in the past I actually prefer her policies overall to Bernie’s. I just have zero faith in her to act on them.

  373. 373.

    debbie

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    again, the primary results suggest more than a few do

    Okay, I’ll try again, but I have to get up early to go get another friggin’ crown.

    Primaries are just Democrats. There’s no disputing that more Dems like Hillary than Bernie.

    But the primaries will shortly become irrelevant. Clinton will not win the election without a good amount of support from the people in the middle who have no allegiance to either party. If Ohio is a bellwether state and she has 70% unfavorables in Ohio, then I think there’s cause for concern. And that observation doesn’t make me a troll.

  374. 374.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Miss Bianca:

    Yeah, the Marmosets obviously gave me a bum translation

    Don’t worry, Adam used the wrong declension of marmoset when translating to Russian.

  377. 377.

    Kropadope

    @redshirt: That misbegotten war she voted for as a matter of political expedience. At least she can be counted on to do what’s popular, you know, leading.

  378. 378.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @Omnes Omnibus: You’re inability to frankly discuss the current state of things from an objective standpoint and acknowledge if there is in fact something to be concerned about strikes me as rather politburo-ish.

  379. 379.

    The Blog Dahlia

    @The Dangerman:

    Well, you’re a straight white male who says he’s going to take his ball and go home rather than vote for president in an election where Donald Fucking Trump is running against the democrat. And hey, if Trump wins, you’ll likely be okay because you’re a straight white male.

    Kinda screams “entitled”, no?

  382. 382.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    If I were writing a novel, I’d have it so the Supreme Court was even split 4 – 4 and no new nominee was being advanced due to the intransigence of the out-party.

    This would all culminate in an electoral or constitutional crisis of course.

    But that would be fiction.

  383. 383.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope: I actually prefer Bernie’s to hers. I also think that she will do her best to do what she said she would do.

  384. 384.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @debbie: If Ohio is a bellwether state and she has 70% unfavorables in Ohio, then I think there’s cause for concern.

    sure, if polls continue to say that over the next few months. There’s also cause for context. And insisting repeatedly (but not this time) that Bernie! has nothing to do with her negatives doesn’t do a lot for your credibility.

  389. 389.

    The Dangerman

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    If you don’t understand that being white puts you ahead of every minority with the same family situation…

    Once again, you are cherry picking the parameters (or, at least, setting which ones are fixed); yes, all things being equal, being white is an advantage if that’s the only variable allowed to change….

    …but, if that’s the only variable that can float, than every single white person on the planet is “entitled”. Sorry, that makes no sense.

    Asshole.

  391. 391.

    Kropadope

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    since, if memory serves, you’re one of the few Bernie! dead-enders

    Also, I’m not a Bernie dead ender. I’m not even particularly fond of the guy. That doesn’t mean it isn’t super aggravating to read endless, mostly false vitriol directed toward him and his supporters.

  392. 392.

    The Dangerman

    @The Blog Dahlia:

    Kinda screams “entitled”, no?

    Actually, no; it screams that maybe I lost a Family Member in Iraq. Didn’t I just say that vote is a DQ? Why do you think that might be?

  394. 394.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) accepted an invitation from Fox News to participate in another Democratic presidential debate, his campaign announced Wednesday.

    the phrase “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” comes to mind. So does “useful idiot”

  395. 395.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Dog Dawg Damn: Don’t forget the catastrophic, existential threat to the planet and species, with a potential lukewarm sectarian war brewing from Saudi Arabia to London and the rise of corporate internationalist oligarchy a la Snow Crash or Gibson

  396. 396.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Mnemosyne:

    And let’s not forget good old Andrew Sullivan. What a fucking douchebag.

  397. 397.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    I’m not sure which group of Obama voters is switching to Trump in large enough numbers to give that result. Is it African-Americans, Latinos, or Asian-Americans?

    This is where having the full poll with cross tabs helps. There’s all kinds of fuckery that a dishonest pollster can do to get the desired result and the clickbait headline.

  398. 398.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @Omnes Omnibus: You weird koots on this blog that accuse everyone of being a troll. Let’s talk about why this blog is one of the most paranoid blogs in its particular genre.

  399. 399.

    Miss Bianca

    Does anybody but me remember an animated version of “Gulliver’s Travels” that was on TV for a micro-second or so in the 70s? There was this one Lilliputian who was always moaning, “We’re DOOMED” every time the Plot Challenge of the current episode came up.

    I kept wondering why all these Hillary concern trolls around here sounded so naggingly familiar. Then I realized it’s that every post they’re moaning “We’re DOOMED”. Hillary is So Unlikeable this week!” WE’RE DOOMED. “I just don’t trust her!” WE’RE DOOMED. “She’s into Endless War!” WE’RE DOOMED.

    It was funny in the cartoon. It’s just fucking annoying here.

  401. 401.

    Kropadope

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: If it’s a debate, doesn’t that mean it only works if both candidates show up? Like it or not, Fox is considered to be a mainstream news source and if they’re hosting a debate, there’s no reason both candidates shouldn’t attend.

  410. 410.

    FlyingToaster

    @efgoldman: I recalled the Silber “Vomit Lives” years. He was the reason I voted for Bill Weld.

    From the little that I listen to it, ‘BUR has very little to do with BU these days. ‘ERS and ‘HRB are still run from their respective campuses, as is [brainfade] Tufts’ station. I have them all programmed into the car’s FM1 button, allong with ‘CRB.

    BU is into real estate now, having seen what Harvard and MIT did across the river.

  411. 411.

    Mnemosyne

    @The Dangerman:

    yes, all things being equal, being white is an advantage if that’s the only variable allowed to change….

    Um, yeah, that’s how institutional racism works. By virtue of your skin color, you are better off than a black or brown person from the same family circumstances. That doesn’t mean your skin color automatically gave you an easy life overall, but it gave you a leg up over other people in the same situation. So, yes, you do have privilege even in your situation. Sorry.

  416. 416.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @James E Powell: Oh lord. I don’t actually wanna talk about that. Prefer sci-fi.

    You guys can talk about how many long-time commenters should get accused of being a troll before a blog is too paranoid.

    EDIT: Irony is that Omnes Omniass gets called a troll by another frequent commenter, and it is also extremely annoying when he’s the recipient as well.

  419. 419.

    Kropadope

    @efgoldman: If there is an environmental policy she sponsored and fought for while in office, please feel free to tell me about it.

  420. 420.

    dogwood

    @Mnemosyne:
    Too many people think making up shit about people they hate is justifiable, and right-wingers don’t have a corner on that market.

  424. 424.

    Cacti

    After OR, Bernie was promising his supporters a victory was still possible.

    So that leaves two possibilities:

    A. He’s delusional
    B. He’s dishonest

    Which one is it?

  425. 425.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Kropadope: She spent quite a bit of time doing just that, and impressed a good number of Senators on both sides of the aisle, but “Harry and Louise” intervened.

  430. 430.

    FlyingToaster

    @Dog Dawg Damn: No, we called you a concern troll last night because that’s what you were doing. You pull that shit again, and everyone will pile the fuck onto you.

    Tonight, at least to me, you were talking sense. Please keep doing that — asking “where is this coming from” will get you more out of this crowd than any other tactic.

    And right now, what’s driving the negatives for both sides is the rhetoric. Check back in August and see if anyone remembers (they didn’t in ’08 or ’12, hint, hint).

  431. 431.

    Kropadope

    @Mnemosyne:

    You’re fucking right it was sabotage. Meet the woman who sabotaged it, and openly brags about it.

    I knew who you were talking about before clicking the link and, by the way, the fact that she had help sabotaging the whole thing doesn’t really impress me.

    Trying to write an entire policy by yourself and excluding Congress through the process is pretty much begging for failure. Judging from her approach in both ’08 and ’12, I think either she hasn’t learned or that was the goal from the beginning.

    ETA: If Hillary wants to be a left-wing ALEC, she’s gonna have to spread A LOT more money around.

  434. 434.

    FlyingToaster

    @redshirt: I haven’t been into the Squayah recently, is Dewey Cheatem and Howe still above the Curious George store?

  435. 435.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’m ambivalent about Dave Weigel, but he’s having a fine old time jousting with Bernie Bros on the twitter this evening

    daveweigel ‏@ daveweigel 20m20 minutes ago
    If there’s a robust “Bernie or Bust” movement, and Trump wins a close one, why shouldn’t they blame those people?
    Joel Silverman ‏@ ferlettuce
    @ daveweigel because “they” chose to push a candidate through that We didn’t want
    #BernieOrBust
    daveweigel ‏@ daveweigel 14m14 minutes ago
    By “they” you mean the working class black voters who gave Clinton landslides in the South.

    And back to work.

  438. 438.

    Mnemosyne

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’m still boggled that any sentient liberal could look at the entire Hillarycare debacle and conclude it was Hillary who sabotaged it and not, say, the multitude of right-wing organizations that are documented as having sabotaged it. What kind of fucking idiot do you have to be to have missed all of that and decide that the only possible explanation was that it was Hillary’s fault?

  440. 440.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope:

    If Hillary wants to be a left-wing ALEC, she’s gonna have to spread A LOT more money around.

    Throw that accusation, provide evidence.

  442. 442.

    Mike J

    @Major Major Major Major: reamde starts really well and goes downhill quickly. Cryptonomicon is easily his best.

    Got William Gibson’s new comical book today. Archangel #1, from IDW, available at fine comic shops everywhere. Just about to read it.

  443. 443.

    The Dangerman

    @Mnemosyne:

    ….but it gave you a leg up over other people in the same situation

    Which I just said. Thanks for agreeing with me, however.

  447. 447.

    Cacti

    @Kropadope:

    If there’s one thing Southern Democrats can be counted on for, it’s picking a winner.

    Southern Democratic Presidents in the past 50 years:

    Johnson, Carter, Clinton

    New England Democratic Presidents during the same period:

    …

  449. 449.

    FlyingToaster

    @efgoldman: And now, Bentley is freaking enormous. And Emerson is duking it out with Chinatown.

    I didn’t get here until ’87, so I only saw the CommAve BU; in the ’00s I had half-a-dozen clients in the Kenmore area whose landlord was BU, much like Harvard in the Squayah or MIT in University Park. And I watched them evict Nickelodeon, fuck Packards Corner up six ways from Sunday, and still not see any concerted effort to tell them “Fuck No”. Unlike Harvard and MIT.

  450. 450.

    Mary G

    @Dog Dawg Damn: I thought Neil
    Stephenson’s Reamde was hilarious, though many fans found it too lightweight compared to some others. Anathem was good too, but not funny.

    Also, too, just wanted to say that I fucking love most of you fucking people.

  451. 451.

    Mnemosyne

    @The Dangerman:

    So we agree that you have privilege by virtue of being a straight, white male. So what, exactly, excuses you from helping people in similar situations who do not have that same privilege, particularly when all that’s being asked of you is to ink a dot next to someone’s name?

  452. 452.

    Tom

    @Ella inNew Mexico: Ella – Josh Marshall had a post a couple of days ago where he postulated that since Trump is the presumed nominee, Republican support is coalescing around him, whereas the Democratic race hasn’t reached that stage yet. I find it convincing, though I can’t be certain how much of that is wishful thinking. Also, keep in mind two other points: 1) As someone pointed out recently, the Republican challengers couldn’t criticize Trump on his racist and pro-rich policies because they share them, 2) The Republicans and Fox news have spent more than a quarter of a century demonizing Hillary Clinton, and haven’t even started on Bernie yet. That tells you they really think is the stronger candidate.

  453. 453.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Kropadope:

    Trying to write an entire policy by yourself and excluding Congress through the process is pretty much begging for failure. Judging from her approach in both ’08 and ’12, I think either she hasn’t learned or that was the goal from the beginning.

    That’s a load of shit.

    Do you think that the Clinton White House wasn’t open to changes? Obama did the same thing in ’08- came to the table with an alterable plan. He got it passed because the GOP didn’t have enough votes to block it Do you think it wasn’t the Republican promise to block it no matter what didn’t strangle the Clinton proposal in the crib?

    How much cash ya got on ya? I got a bridge I’ll sell you for practically nothing, and you seem like just the kind of customer with whom I’ve made a deal before.

  458. 458.

    smith

    @Cacti: Don’t have the 2008 primary stats in front of me, but since a large portion of Southern Democratic voters are black, I think they also picked the winner named Obama.

  459. 459.

    The Dangerman

    @Mnemosyne:

    So we agree that you have privilege by virtue of being a straight, white male.

    No. We agree that if all other variables are fixed that would be the case. All other variables AREN’T fixed, however. Wouldn’t it be nice if life were that simple?

    …particularly when all that’s being asked of you is to ink a dot next to someone’s name?

    If it made a difference, maybe I would; it does not make a difference, however. I’m in the bluest of the Blue States. If Hillary can’t carry CA without me, she has big problems.

  460. 460.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: She writes all this detailed legislation which she seems to expect to pass as-is. This is evidenced by her reliable outrage when challenged on the details of her plan by her D opponents. With Obama she went so far as to shame him for debating her, an approach which suggests agree with me or shut up.

    Disagreeing, even disagreeing heatedly, on the points is fine. Suggesting your position is right and perfect beyond debate is entirely another.

  464. 464.

    Kropadope

    @efgoldman:

    she hasn’t learned or changed one fucking thing?

    No, I said she hasn’t changed one very specific thing, her tendency to want to write the legislation pretty much on her own and expecting every detail to go unchallenged.

  467. 467.

    Mnemosyne

    @The Dangerman:

    No. We agree that if all other variables are fixed that would be the case. All other variables AREN’T fixed, however. Wouldn’t it be nice if life were that simple?

    It’s true, the other variables aren’t fixed. The fact that you think that a disabled black lesbian who spent some time homeless has it easier in life than you do says something very interesting about you.

  472. 472.

    Mike J

    @Major Major Major Major: It’s not first contact. Moon blows up (not a spoiler, happens in the first sentence), humankind tries to survive through the centuries.

    It was better than some of his, not as good as Anathem or Cryptonomicon.

  473. 473.

    smith

    @Kropadope:

    No, I said she hasn’t changed one very specific thing, her tendency to want to write the legislation pretty much on her own and expecting every detail to go unchallenged.

    Huh? Who said that? I had a friend on one of the committees formed to help design Hillarycare, and that’s not at all what she described.

  475. 475.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Dreading seeing the in-laws this week. They are petty bourgeois Republicans. Hoping they are still not into Trump, but they would probably lie about it if they had turned to Il Douche. At least I hope so.

  478. 478.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: Forget it, O2, it’s Whiteytown.

    btw, my apologies again – if you didn’t see it last night – for opening up a can of pissy on you with the grammar nazi stuff. I was allowing my vexations over personal disappointments turn me mean. Meaner than usual, that is.

  479. 479.

    FlyingToaster

    @Major Major Major Major: Since the kid I make it into Harvard Square only in the Summer. I need to go in and get new glasses, but getting there is such a time sink that I just never seem to make it.

    In about 3 weeks she’s out of school and we’ll likely T in to go swim at the MAC, but until then, crunch.

  482. 482.

    Kropadope

    @Cacti: That’s three Presidents in 5 decades. How are they doing at other levels of the government?

    Also, the South went pretty strongly for Mondale and Kerry. Carter split the South with George Wallace.

    Overall, not impressed.

  485. 485.

    Tom Q

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: This one’s even more impressive since it seems to be coming about with no Bob in Portland input. I’m thinking any thread where he does his usual 100 rapid-fire responses should have to go to 600 or so to count — kind of like a bowling handicap.

  495. 495.

    divF

    @Adam L Silverman: My personal trainer is an internationally ranked power lifter. I’ve seen video of her deadlifting 507#.

    I think of that when we get this close to a TBU.

    ETA: and we made it over the line.

  496. 496.

    The Dangerman

    @Mnemosyne:

    ….a disabled black lesbian who spent some time homeless has it easier in life than you do says something very interesting about you.

    Nice strawman; obviously, I made no such claim.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    ….you are being racist as fuck.

    Yeah, yeah, yeah; your turn for a whatev’s. Too lazy for a reasoned argument to support your position so I’m not going to waste my time with a reasoned response….

    …besides, it’s been a long damn day; I was up in the wee hours (well, 5am is wee for me) to talk to the VA Technical Support (my Uncle) and this is getting pointless again.

  498. 498.

    Cacti

    @Kropadope:

    That’s three Presidents in 5 decades.

    Yep.

    Now regale me with a tale about the administrations of Presidents Dukakis and Kerry.

  501. 501.

    The Blog Dahlia

    @The Dangerman:

    I lost a family member in Iraq too. Still gonna vote for the democrat because DONALD FUCKING TRUMP WILL FUCK OVER MINORITIES REAL HARD.

    Sorry but when the GOP wants to destroy literally everything we all hold dear, you get off your ass and fucking vote.

    Besides, I voted for Biden and he voted for Iraq. If you can vote to put that guy in the WH you can vote for Clinton.

  503. 503.

    scav

    With all the TBogs coming, we may have global warming in more than just temperature. And the generation and storage of these may only accelerate the traditional one.

  507. 507.

    divF

    @Dog Dawg Damn: No, TBogg (blessed be his name) is a blogger who came up with the metric of 500 comments as a truly noteworthy thread. Or flame war. Or something.

    Also, see redshirt above.

  508. 508.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, well what she sees as important is whatever is politically convenient at the time. Forgive me if I don’t see her trying to follow through on much of her platform.

    Take, for example, Iran. I see this as emblematic of an Obama policy that needs to be preserved. She claims to support it, but always goes out of her way to highlight her distrust of Iran and will barely entertain the idea of normalization of relations. I’ll vote for her because I seemingly have no choice, but why should I believe for a second that the second the going gets a little tough the deal won’t go right out the window?

  510. 510.

    scav

    @The Blog Dahlia: Having lost someone in war as an excuse for not voting and letting the country take the hit seems pretty thin morally. Must be that special flavor of Buddism.

  514. 514.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @divF: Ah, of course I wouldn’t’ know it. I use the much larger DDU, which is 1,000 comments on a thread.

  517. 517.

    Kropadope

    @Major Major Major Major: I don’t fully trust the Ayatollahs, but Iranians seem like good people and it is in our best interest to make the nuclear deal work. HRC’s heated rhetoric doesn’t help with that, neither does her tendency to chase public opinion.

  519. 519.

    Adam L Silverman

    @divF: That is a lot to deadlift. I can’t do regular deadlifts, just Romanian (straight leg) deadlifts. My lower arms are a wee bit shorter than they should be, combine that with very broad chest, back, and shoulders and I can’t hold the form. I either have to roll my back over as opposed to keeping it straight to clear my upper shins and knees, which is bad, or I have to scrape the bar against my upper shins and knees. Regardless that’s a lot of weight to lift. Especially for a woman.

  520. 520.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Dog Dawg Damn: TBogg Unit. TBogg, now doing actual straight reporting for RawStory under his actual name Tom Boggioni, coined the term for any blog post that has 500 comments.

  523. 523.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope:

    but why should I believe for a second that the second the going gets a little tough the deal won’t go right out the window?

    Nothing will convince you. Your mind is made up. Me, I expect that she will surprise you.

  524. 524.

    divF

    @Kropadope: Seriously, what do you accomplish with your continuous anti-Clinton whining ? She is going to win the nomination, the alternative is Trump an unmitigated disaster, so there is really not a choice but to believe that she will keep her word.

    Your rants are borderline trollish behavior, and have the appearance of the old Microsoft FUD strategy (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt). Demoralize the Dems, and do your little part to suppress turnout, so that Trump wins. You might notice that the GOP doesn’t play this game – they are rallying around Trump, which is why his numbers are up.

    So what is your point?

  526. 526.

    The Blog Dahlia

    @scav:

    The pain of losing a loved one in a needless war is pretty terrible. But sitting back with your thumb up your ass when the GOP aims to send a bunch more kids to needless deaths around the world makes no sense.

    Besides which, the previous three democratic tickets have included at least one guy who voted to authorize Iraq. Hell, in ’04 we put up two on one ticket!

    Kerry, Edwards, Biden, Clinton, they didn’t send my nephew to Iraq. That dogfucker Bush did.

  527. 527.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kropadope: I don’t mean to jump in this late, especially as I’m heading to bed soon, but you do understand that the P5+1 negotiations with Iran were started under her supervision when she was Secretary of State. And that it was one of her senior staffers that actually got the Iranian’s attention by formally returning a stolen Persian antiquity that the US had been able to recover by personally presenting it to Iran’s Ambassador to the UN? Are you perhaps confusing Iraq with Iran, perhaps by accidentally typing the latter when you meant the former?

  529. 529.

    joel hanes

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    Let’s talk about why this blog is one of the most paranoid blogs in its particular genre.

    Large and extremely varied commentariat — partly because it’s not just a liberal political blog, but also a pets gardening cooking blog, and partly for historical reasons (started as a conservative warblog and morphed).
    Most other blogs develop a shared language and set of assumptions, but BJ’s comment section is always full of people misunderstanding things others have said.

    Also, a very persistent set of long-running and obnoxious trolls.

    Also, DougJ

  530. 530.

    Kropadope

    @smith: Continues to ignore the every other level of government, the fact that the South split between Carter and Wallace, and the non-impressiveness of 4 winners in 50 years.

  531. 531.

    joel hanes

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    Been meaning to read more of Stephenson

    Read Cryptonomicon next.

    Don’t attempt Quicksilver unless you have lots of time and endless patience with a huge cast and a sprawling tangle that can’t really be called a plot at all.

  532. 532.

    Major Major Major Major

    @redshirt: I trust Israel well enough. They seem to be acting within established parameters. Which might be a funky definition of trust, tho it’s basically what you said about Iran.

    The rise in antisemitism in Europe right now has me feeling protective, though, I suppose.

    @joel hanes: And, you know, read Cryptonomicon before cracking open Quicksilver. Quicksilver is… alright.

  533. 533.

    joel hanes

    @redshirt:

    Anathem

    Strange, offputtingly strange, and very static, like the first half of Heller’s Something Happened.
    And then on page 123, something happens and the entire book changes. I actually laughed out loud.

    I wouldn’t recommend it to someone who didn’t already read and love Cryptonomicon.

  536. 536.

    divF

    @Adam L Silverman: She’s really something. She’s competing in the Nationals this summer, and aiming to get somewhere north of 1300 total (deadlift+squat+bench).

    It sounds like you and I have pretty similar builds – I’ve had to modify my stance a little to maintain my form on deadlifts. I used to come away with bloody shins on my heavy day. I enjoy powerlifting, though, because it is a good match for my shortish arms and legs. My ambitions are much more modest. As I keep saying to my trainers, I’ve managed to make it to 64 y/o without blowing out a knee, elbow, shoulder or back, and I want to keep it that way.

  537. 537.

    redshirt

    @Major Major Major Major: Separate the people of Israel from the current government of Israel. The Netanyahu government is basically a Republican/Fox News operation when it comes to America.

    I hope Israel gets their own Obama sooner than later.

  539. 539.

    smith

    @Kropadope: Every other level of government has been dominated by Republicans for most of the last 35 years — are Southern Dems to blame for that? And are only Southern Dems to blame for only 4 winners in 50 years? And recall this discussion started with your disparaging Southern Democrats’ preference for Clinton in a presidential primary. How do you expand that to blaming them for other levels of gov’t elected by Republicans, and for presidents elected nationally?

  540. 540.

    Major Major Major Major

    @joel hanes: I was super excited when I bought Anathem. Got it along with Christopher Moore’s You Suck. I was in West Portal, it was a nice day with the sort of warm fog where you couldn’t quite see into the Muni tunnels. I sat down to eat some Indian food and cracked open Anathem and got to about page ten. Then I read You Suck that week.

    Took me about six months to get to the part you’re talking about, then I finished the book in three days.

    Weird fucking book.

    @redshirt: Yeah, that’s basically how I feel too about Likud, and Israel has their own problems for sure, and mostly wonderful people. But I don’t know if there’s much of anything to… distrust? Bibi’s not exactly acting out a super secret agenda over there.

  541. 541.

    Kropadope

    @Adam L Silverman: The P5+1 negotiations were started in 2006 under the Bush administration and, prior to the election of Rouhani, seemed to result mainly in economic warfare against Iran. The State Department under Clinton never suggested a deal of this nature was on the table.

  542. 542.

    redshirt

    @joel hanes: Yeah. That’s the moment it “clicks” and everything follows. I re-read the book immediately upon finishing it and it was a rewarding experience. The end is still kinda confusing though.

  543. 543.

    joel hanes

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    SEVENEVES

    Couldn’t finish it. Could only care about any of the characters in fits and starts.
    I’ll give it another try this summer.

  545. 545.

    Kropadope

    @smith: I said they’re not good at picking winners. The fact that interpreted that to mean just presidents is something I can’t explain, except for possibly blaming the cult of the Presidency.

  546. 546.

    Adam L Silverman

    @divF: I can’t touch my elbows together. Sounds like you’ve got a great trainer. As I’ve written here before, I’m primarily back to using the TRX instead of free weights after spending 14 months (AUG 2014 through OCT 2015) doing very heavy free weights to mix things up. Though I’m thinking of doing a week of free weights next week just to mix things up.

  548. 548.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kropadope: Different negotiations with the same name. The P5+1 under President Bush 43 was part of what that Administration called the roadmap for peace. It had to do with the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. Since the Bush 43 Administration was only going through the motions many of us used to refer to these not as the roadmap for peace, but as the speed bump for peace.

    The negotiations that resulted in the agreement last year were begun under Secretary Clinton. There are also called the P5+1 because of who was involved. They dealt with Iran’s nuclear energy program.

    But what do I know, I only do this stuff for a living?

  549. 549.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Kropadope: Um, so, isn’t that 100% of Democratic winners since Lyndon Johnson? You’re just firing the blunderbuss is all directions tonight, aren’t ya?

  550. 550.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Nothing will convince you. Your mind is made up. Me, I expect that she will surprise you.

    Well, I’m relying on her record, her statements, and history as a guide. You can keep following that unicorn if you want.

    @divF:

    Seriously, what do you accomplish with your continuous anti-Clinton whining ?

    Two things, I feel safe doing that here because most of the people here reliably vote for Democrats, so this seems like a good place to air my grievances. Beyond that, there is a clique of smug, assholish Clinton supporters here who post endless vitriolic posts with, at best, a tenuous relationship with reality denouncing anyone and anything even marginally critical of Clinton. I refuse to tell anyone to shut up, so I need them to see how it feels.

  551. 551.

    Kropadope

    @Adam L Silverman: You have anything to show? Any statements from the Clinton state department indicating that they were considering anything along the lines of the deal that was passed?

  554. 554.

    gwangung

    @Kropadope:

    Beyond that, there is a clique of smug, assholish Clinton supporters here who post endless vitriolic posts with, at best, a tenuous relationship with reality

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

  556. 556.

    The Old fart

    Well, now I have to decide whether Trump or Hillary is the lesser evil. I was pretty sure Bernie was the greater good. But way to go an piss me off. Good on you assholes!

  558. 558.

    Cacti

    @The Old fart:

    Well, now I have to decide whether Trump or Hillary is the lesser evil.

    I’m sorry to hear about your recent head trauma and wish you a speedy recovery.

  560. 560.

    The Old fart

    It’s been said the Democratic Party is “bar none” the expert at losing elections. This year they have already lost the Youth vote that has worked for Bernie. They may also lose my vote. It would be voting for people like Cracker and Cole.

  562. 562.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kropadope: Aside from the fact that you should know how to do a keyword search, here’s the NBC news report on the return of the antiquity, an act of cultural diplomacy begun when Secretary Clinton was running State and accomplished in 2013, that impressed upon the Iranians that we were serious:
    nbcnews.com/science/archaeo-diplomacy-us-gives-million-dollar-cup-back-iran-8C11281668
    And here’s the entire timeline going all the way back to the 1970s, including the Bush 43 attempts in the mid 00s (referred to in the timeline as P5+1 as well), all the way through to the agreement. The US State Department was heavily involved from the time President Obama took office:
    armscontrol.org/factsheet/Timeline-of-Nuclear-Diplomacy-With-Iran

    I really don’t care who you vote for or why. I also really don’t care if you wish to believe that nothing was being done when things were actually being done. But your right to believe things that aren’t true does not give you the right to assert things that aren’t as statements of facts and make the other people here dumber as a result. I have several good friends and colleagues, including one now retired Foreign Executive Service officer who is a former teammate, who worked on this and other proliferation related issues, out of the public eye, when Secretary Clinton was running the State Department. Your veiled insinuations craps all over their efforts and their service. Moreover, it fails to recognize that these things happen very slowly, in small steps, often backsliding before making progress, and even the final negotiated agreements that get all the publicity are rarely, if ever, perfect.

  563. 563.

    divF

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I can’t touch my elbows together.

    Me neither :-( .

    We’ve communicated about TRX before, and there is a setup in the weight room at the Y here. I want to consider alternatives, particularly since I am going to be a detailee to the Feds starting in a couple of weeks, which will involve one week / month on the road to DC.

  564. 564.

    seaboogie

    @Yutsano:

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
    serial kitten killer skull fucker
    Fixteth to match blog tradition.

    Thank you for making it all tidy and and fixing the antimacassars just so. We do have our standards, starting and not ending with the kitten skull fucking. If we had a scout troop, that would be the ultimate badge.

  565. 565.

    Kropadope

    @Adam L Silverman: I actually researched this extensively the last time the subject came up. Most of the documents I relied on were statements put out by the state department. None of those documents indicated that the U.S. was considering a deal along the lines of what the P5+1 ultimately reached during Clinton’s tenure. Funnily enough, neither do either of your links.

    This isn’t necessarily Clinton’s fault. I think the election of Rouhani had a lot to do with the change in the tenor of the negotiations. Still, though, you can’t just change history because it makes your preferred presidential candidate look good.

  568. 568.

    Kropadope

    @gwangung: Do you have anything actually to contribute? Do you disagree that his links don’t meet the objective that I set out for him? If so, could you pull a quote from either of his links, because I read them beginning to end and neither showed what I asked him to show.

  569. 569.

    Jonathan Holland Becnel

    Dam I missed out on the fun, @JohnCole!

    Quite the Contrary, I’d say that your Anti Sanders posts are the most popular thing going on right now at Balloon Juice.

    Consistently 350+ Comments, which is wayyyyy more than the usual Posts.

    Did you hear about the 21,000 Clinton supporters who pack an Arena in Cali the other day???

    OHHHH WAIT A MINUTE, THAT WAS BERNIE SANDERS!

    What to do with all those milennials out there who just won’t listen to the VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE?

    So you felt betrayed huh? That’s too bad. Sanders could use a person like you
    On his side!

    I’ll choose the editors of Democracy Now, Matt Taibbi, Chris hedges and Truthdig, Hamilton Nolan at Gawker, Vice, the Intercept, and Yves Smith and Lambert at Naked Capitalism over you on this matter.

    Why?

    Because they stick to the issues that concern poor working class people.

    What do you do? What’s your response? You post something about how chess and tennis are rigged?

    Sanders just keeps chugging along…CHUGGA CHUGGA CHOO CHOOOOO

  570. 570.

    Kropadope

    @gwangung: Or you just gonna continue to be a smug Clinton supporter so assured of being right that you don’t need to engage in petty things like discussions of facts?

  572. 572.

    Kropadope

    @Adam L Silverman: Also, aside from your links doing nothing to show that Clinton’s state department was seeking a deal that would allow Iran to enrich its own fuel, I’d also like to point out that Hillary called Obama naïve for even wanting to meet with Iran without first getting concessions. If she were president, those talks may never have progressed to begin with.

  573. 573.

    Jonathan Holland Becnel

    @Kropadope:

    If she were president, those talks may never have progressed to begin with.

    She most certainly WOULD NOT have allowed those talks with Iran to happen. That’s not in the best interests of her neoliberal agenda.

  574. 574.

    Jonathan Holland Becnel

    @redshirt:

    Well, I believe the typical Bernie response would go something along the lines of, “We were behind 50pts in Cali last year and look at us now!”

    I agree it’s a big IF, but still it’s nice to see all those young voters politically engaged for once.

  577. 577.

    Cacti

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    I’ll choose the editors of Democracy Now, Matt Taibbi, Chris hedges and Truthdig, Hamilton Nolan at Gawker, Vice, the Intercept, and Yves Smith and Lambert at Naked Capitalism over you on this matter.

    Why?

    Because they stick to the issues that concern poor working class people.

    What a pity that poor and working class people barely read, listen to, or give a shit about any of the effete wankers that you just named.

  580. 580.

    Jonathan Holland Becnel

    @Cacti:

    What a pity that poor and working class people barely read, listen to, or give a shit about any of the effete wankers that you just named.

    AHHHH yes, Amy Goodman…the effete wanker!

    On the contrary, I’d say more poor working class people such as myself are reading more than ever!

  581. 581.

    Jonathan Holland Becnel

    @Cacti:

    Nah, I’m from Looosiana, Cher!

    Cali is muchhhhh quicker to write than California BTW

  582. 582.

    Cacti

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    AHHHH yes, Amy Goodman…the effete wanker!

    Amy Goodman was born on April 13, 1957, in Washington, D.C. Her father, George Goodman, was an ophthalmologist, and her mother, Dorothy, a literature teacher, then social worker.

    Quite the hardscrabble, blue collar upbringing. ;-)

  583. 583.

    Cacti

    Matt Taibbi was born in 1970 to Mike Taibbi, an NBC television reporter, and his wife. According to Matt, his surname Taibbi, is a Sicilian name of Lebanese/Arabic origin, but his father, who is partly of Filipino-Hawaiian descent, was adopted as a child by a Sicilian-American couple who possessed the surname. He grew up in the Boston, Massachusetts suburbs. He attended Concord Academy in Concord, Massachusetts, and graduated in 1992 from Bard College located in Annandale-on-Hudson, New York. He spent a year abroad studying at Saint Petersburg Polytechnical University in Russia.

    Another lunch pail success story. :-)

  584. 584.

    Keith G

    @Cacti: So are you postulating that one has to be born into an economically challenged family to become a concerned activist for the rights of the impoverished?

    As far as what do the poor consume for news and related information, I have no evidence on hand to make a a truly valid observation. Do you?

    I do know, anecdotally, that here in Houston there are community organizers and others (folks who l know and regularly check in with) whom are very interested in community activism that focuses on the needs of the poor. Some of those listen to our local non-profit radio station which is part of the radio Pacifica Network. On that station are blocks of programming of and about the various communities of color and other challenged communities. That station also runs Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now at a prime morning spot.

    Matt Taibbi is often a guest on Amy Goodman’s program. Do you think that those economically challenged listeners think to themselves, “Now that Amy and Matt are from solidly middle-class families, so I’m going to turn off the radio right now and wait for something else to come along.”?

  588. 588.

    Cacti

    @Keith G:

    Do you think that those economically challenged listeners think to themselves, “Now that Amy and Matt are from solidly middle-class families, so I’m going to turn off the radio right now and wait for something else to come along.”?

    No, I think that those economically challenged listeners aren’t tuning in to Goodman and Taibbi in the first place.

    Her Houston affiliate doesn’t even register a 0.1 market share in the Nielsen ratings.

  590. 590.

    different-church-lady

    @Cacti: The thing you are attempting to describe is what I refer to as the “Liberal Wankosphere”.

    Also, there’s this book by Thomas Frank…

  591. 591.

    Craigo

    I can’t seriously entertain the prospect that anyone but upper middle-class white people listen or read any of these progressive “heroes”. Bourgeois revolutionaries are always eager to speak for proletarians, and sometimes to them – preferably from a safe distance – but never with them.

  592. 592.

    different-church-lady

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m still boggled that any sentient liberal…

    Consider the subject and then ask yourself if either word applies.

  593. 593.

    Poopyman

    @Baud:

    @raven: Then what would we talk about?

    After 601 comments (d-c-l’s is the last on my page – so far), I see you all still have it in you. But I’m guessing there’s nothing new in all that. If there is, I’m sure it’ll come up on the day shift.

  594. 594.

    different-church-lady

    @Craigo: I know a few lower middle class white people who inhabit that ecosystem. They’re lower middle-class because they have the luxury of getting by on a bohemian lifestyle income and can’t figure out how to get along with their potential employers (who are mostly casual members of middle middle-class segment of the liberal wankosphere).

  595. 595.

    different-church-lady

    @Poopyman: Once I start offering my insomnia-induced prattlings, is there really a need to go any further?

  597. 597.

    Joel

    @Poopyman: Years ago, in the immediate aftermath of the disastrous Bush administration, the National Guard was trying to boost sagging recruitment numbers with a series of ads featuring… 3 Doors Down.

    Now, I don’t need to tell you that in 2008/2009, few people gave one fuck about this band, much less the young folks that the military needs to fill its ranks. At that time, NPR ran a piece about how this ad campaign was basically a joke among the enlisted. They even featured a bit of analysis — measured by iTunes purchases, the most popular musician in the armed forces was R. Kelly. And it wasn’t even close.

    People tend to overrate the popularity of the things that they personally like/follow.

  598. 598.

    BruceFromOhio

    @different-church-lady: Though your comment does come up at the top of teh Google when searching for that term, it was actually created when TBogg was at his old site:

    If you don’t believe these topics were discussed by the progressive wing ad infinitum nauseam onlineum, I’ve got a handful of 500-comment posts (aka Tbogg unit) at my old hangout I’ll trade you for bitcoins and pogs.

    Dangling red meat in front of supporters of an opposing candidate created PUMA storms on FDL in the aught-eight election, and TBogg units were as frequent then as they are now, literally for the same reason.

  599. 599.

    Larv

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    poor working class people such as myself

    Um, didn’t you say you majored in Latin at LSU? You may be poor now, but if you could afford to waste college tuition at a major university on a largely useless/generic degree, I’m guessing you didn’t have a real blue-collar upbringing. I say this as somebody who wasted quite a bit of somebody else’s money on an anthropology degree. But then again, I could be wrong. Maybe you are putting yourself in serious debt for a degree that sounds good but is of no practical use. After all, you are a Bernie supporter.

  602. 602.

    different-church-lady

    @BruceFromOhio: Check the date code, Sparky. TBogg invented the technique (that’s why it’s named for him, after all), but I did the naming. I’m honored he embraced it. It’s my sole contribution to all internet traditions. Don’t force this into intellectual property court.

  603. 603.

    J R in WV

    @Kropadope:

    In my book, everything that happened in Iraq and Afganistan after G W Bush took office, is the fault of G W Bush, Dick “War Criminal” Cheney, and Doland “Monster” Rumsfeld. You can jump on the 98% of legislators who voted to “Authorize” the Use of Military Force, all you want, but none of them were in charge of the use of our Military.

    The Strategy was designed by Bush and his loyal henchmen, the tactics were approved by Bush and his appointed Secretaries, the desire to attack Iraq, which had nothing, ZERO to do with the 9/11/2001 attacks on the US, and the handholding of the Saudis who were evacuated from US territory while the rest of the airline industry was SHUT DOWN, all done by George Walker Bush, he of the desertion from the Texas Air Guard.

    So anyone who tries to blame that whole war crime on a Democratic vote, one out of hundreds, is running under a false flag. Lying in his teeth would be another accurate description of those events. I’m even willing to blame those 9/11/2001 attacks on George Walker Bush, since he DID NOT KEEP US SAFE during his administration, not at all. He might as well have directed those planes himself, given the way he said “You’ve covered your ass, now go away!” instead of “We should have a sit down meeting tomorrow to discuss how to protect our airliners from these guys!”

    Because even just a change in hi-jacking policy to keep the cockpits locked, maybe put an armed Special Ops guy in every cockpit, there you’re done, none of that happens. No planes into the Towers, Nor the Pentagon, no attacks on Afganistan or Iraq, and no need to hand-hold the Saudis, nor to kiss Prince Bandar and walk up the driveway arm in arm like the Homecoming Queen and the King, er, Prince.

    The rest of the assertions done’ even make sense, so I can’t begin ti figure out how to discuss them. Deliberately killed off her own health care project? Crazed, but you believe what you want to.

  604. 604.

    SFAW

    @different-church-lady:

    Check the date code, Sparky. TBogg invented the technique (that’s why it’s named for him, after all), but I did the naming.

    Oh, bullshit.

    It’s OBVIOUS to me (and probably most persons here) that you pulled an Obama — you used his Time Machine to go back and insert that birth announcement comment ex post facto, to make it appear that you had actually written it before TBogg coined it.

    Show us the damn long-form comment, or be branded a liar (and probably a closet Mooslim. But not a usurper.)

    ETA: I suppose NEXT you’ll try to claim credit for “Friedman unit.”

  605. 605.

    different-church-lady

    @SFAW:

    I suppose NEXT you’ll try to claim credit for “Friedman unit.”

    You must think I’m insane for wanting anything to do with a Friedman anything.

  606. 606.

    kc

    Hey, just dropping back in this once to apologize to anyone on here whom I may have ever criticized for bashing Hillary Clinton.

    Fuck her and all of her hypocritical centrist finger-wagging scolding welfare reform-loving drone-humping interventionist foreign policy supporting supporters.

    ETA: Including but not limited to recent Harvard grad Alexandra Petri and her entire cohort and anyone who thinks she’s “pretty funny.”

  607. 607.

    Heliopause

    @kc:

    Hmm. I contribute virtually nothing here anymore myself, but I skim the front page now and then to see what the hive mind is thinking. It’s morbidly amusing to see a blog doing everything in its power to drive 45% of the party’s coalition out of the coalition on a day when TWO polls showing Trump winning the general are released.

  608. 608.

    BruceFromOhio

    @different-church-lady: My, aren’t we just the plucky one. It was around long before your “code”, “Sparky.” The PUMA wars were legend, and make the current flaming piles of poo look tame. The move to FDL brought on the worst of the worst, and in hindsight may have contributed to the demise of that once-storied stop on the prog-lib circuit.

    However, since the archives are now kaput, I have no supporting evidence, so by all means please pat yourself on the back, “Sparky.”

  609. 609.

    smike

    @BillinGlendaleCA: What the fuck? Another fucking comment about the “fuck” comment? Pretty fucking lame. Why don’t you people grow the fuck up (or grow a fucking pair, or whatever the fuck the saying is)? How fucking juvenile!

    There, I fucking said it.

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