The Calvinball revolution:
The Democratic party and its Chicago convention were torn apart in 1968 over a fundamental cleavage over the Vietnam War. The Sanders camp is going to blow up the convention to push debate schedule reform? That’s amazing. Reform of the primary process is a much more substantive matter. But remember, as I’ve argued before, the parts of the process most in need of reform (Caucuses and post-election day shenanigans) are the ones helping Sanders the most! Now his whole campaign is based on getting the superdelegates – which for most of the campaign he has said constitute the core anti-democratic aspect of the process – to hand him the nomination. Consistency is an overrated commodity in much of life, especially in politics. But you can’t make the logic of your arguments so structurally unsound that they collapse under the weight of their own ridiculousness.
***From what I can tell, the current Sanders campaign is riven between people who are increasingly upset or bewildered by what we might call the resurgent “burn it down” turn of Sanders outlook and others who are fully immersed in the feedback loop of grievance and paranoia that sees all the political events of the last year as a series of large and small scale conspiracies to deny the rectitude and destiny of Bernie Sanders. I’ve seen many, many campaigns. People put everything into it and losing is brutal and punishing. Folks on the losing side frequently go a little nuts, sometimes a lot nuts. The 2008 denouement really was pretty crazy. But it’s not clear that this time we have any countervailing force – adulthood, institutional buy-in, future careers, over-riding pragmatism to rein things in.
Only nihilists, college students who are living off their parents, and white employed men with nothing to fear from the Trump administration have the luxury of thinking like this. In other words, the Bernie coalition. Since Jane is on his payroll and also got a nice 200k golden parachute for destroying Burlington College, Sanders will be fine, too.
In case I’m not clear, fuck these guys.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
Pretty sure it was the Party Insiders in those smokey back lit rooms that blew up the convention by ramming Humphrey down the throats of the democrats.
But ya know, facts and all are getting a little bit hazy here in BJ land ;)
Michael Bersin
Handwringing in Missouri:
And here we just thought of ourselves as a bunch of wise cracking smart asses
“….Dedicated Democratic supporters that have dutifully paid their dues sneer in our direction, jest that we’re short-lived, and publicly doubt our convictions. “Bought the T-shirt, actually showed up” was the photo caption in our regional progressive newsletter highlighting the 4th Congressional District Convention. The photo depicted a man wearing a Bernie T-shirt….”
Eric U.
I was 10 in ’68, and I couldn’t follow what was going on during the convention. I’m not sure what the party was supposed to do then, the likely nominee was dead. It wasn’t like they could easily replace him
I think the main similarity could be that the Sandersnistas threaten to make a spectacle of themselves.
Betty Cracker
“Feedback loop of grievance and paranoia” — yep, that describes it perfectly. The only question is how many Bernfeelers are caught up in that loop. As I’ve said in other threads, none of the ones I personally know are; they are grownups and Democrats who will come around in November. My daughter tells me Bern It Downism is widespread among her age cohort, which comprises brand-new voters. We’ll see.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
god I love this version of Cole– don’t forget affluent aging tote baggers looking to self-indulge and self-congratulate; I spent some time in Evanston, IL, last month and was surprised at the number of Bernie! signs in front of mansions near the lake. If I were bolder I would’ve knocked on some doors and posed as a reporter, ’cause I’m genuinely curious about, for example, how more much they were willing to pay in taxes for ‘free college’
Cacti
Bernie’s worst feature as a candidate has been his total inability to lose with any grace, class, or composure.
Any time and place the voters have rejected him, it must have been illegitimate in some way. Now his dead enders believe they were cheated out of something. To borrow a sports metaphor: Scoreboard, kids. It doesn’t lie.
Mike J
Don’t know why BJ didn’t get into the Hill. They are obviously not connoisseurs of skull fucking kittens.
starscream
Remember when Bernie was asked to name a single instance of Clinton’s corruption, and couldn’t? That was funny.
cleek
the Montpelier Martyr is going to blow it all up out of petulance and spite.
Nashville_fan
So basically, it turns out that Bernie Sanders has less common sense than Ted Cruz . . . damn.
Baud
Did I read correctly that Clinton has a decent chance to get a majority with pledged delegates alone? Not that she needs to, but I wonder how the last holdouts will receive respond if she does.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@starscream: who was it asked that question? and has it been asked again? I can’t stomach the sanctimonious old crank, so I don’t watch his interviews anymore.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
So Pro Clinton John Cole cites Pro Clinton Josh Marshall who cites Pro Clinton NYTimes.
Bernie should drop out because of a Brandished Chair and some asshole texts from Bernie Supporters in Texas and Georgia.
Got it.
All this manufactured outrage is really unbecoming of you, Cole.
JPL
@Baud: You mean how will they respond to cheatin Hillary. Bernie’s folks have already said the system is rigged.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I believe it was Hillary who asked it of him at one of the debates.
chopper
how are we supposed to burn the GOP to the ground when bernie is using all the wood to build a giant cross for himself?
Baud
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
It’s like you don’t even know Cole at all.
starscream
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was in a debate, I can’t find the clip :(
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Betty Cracker:
Project Much, Mrs Cracker?
chopper
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
jesus, i’m drinking coffee here. shit.
starscream
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You forgot to mention that they’re all on the Goldman Sachs payroll
Mike J
@Baud:
She will get a majority of the pledged delegates. If you mean a majority of pledged + super on pledged alone? No. She is 611 short of that with 781 left to go. She would need 78%+ to get it on pledged alone.
However, she doesn’t need it on pledged alone. She will get a majority of pledged (>2026), and 98%+ of the superdelegates will bow to the will of the pledged delegates.
NR
The Democrats are nominating the only candidate in the country who could possibly lose to Donald Trump, but somehow it’s all the fault of her primary opponent. Gotta love BJ.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
No, he should stop lying to his supporters that they’ve been cheated out of anything, or that he stands any chance at this point of being the Dem nominee.
When you center your campaign around your own purported rectitude, patent dishonesty sort of blows all of that out of the water, no?
cleek
today, the role of Petulance T. Bernfeeler will be played by Jonathan Holland Becnel.
Amir Khalid
Why does that FEEL THE BERN logo remind me of Ghostrider?
Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Is chair-brandishing vigorously denied or reluctantly admitted? Because I’ve seen both.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
If I recall correctly, you’re new here.
chopper
@NR:
exactly! i mean, in spite of the fact that bernie never had a chance to even win the democratic nomination, it’s literally impossible for him not to seal the deal against trump. it’s a sure-fire lock.
burnspbesq
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
History is written by the winners. The chair is what people will remember. It perfectly symbolizes the self-immolation of the Sanders campaign.
Mike J
@Amir Khalid: Dead man walking, out for vengeance. Easy to confuse them.
Arm The Homeless
I keep telling you Cole, we need a better class of trolls than the Hollandaise-Bechamel sauce clown you picked up.
I eagerly await the mewling when Clinton clinches it all in a couple weeks. That cranky fuck, Bernie, is gonna huff and puff, but he will eventually endorse because he will need the cover of his seat in 2018 to avoid having to go and get a real job.
Frankensteinbeck
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
The argument is that Sanders should apologize for or at least discourage his state campaign staff from throwing gigantic tantrums when they fail an attempt to game the rules so they can win more delegates in a state where Sanders lost the popular vote. When he actually encouraged them to feel like the cheated victims, it was a major sign of bad character. It also plays into the general concern that he may be poisoning the general election well. Sanders dropping out is only involved in the case of a few people who are so disillusioned they want Sanders to go away so they don’t have to deal with more of this.
Cacti
@Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim:
Chair brandishing in the heat of the moment can be explained, though not condoned.
Hundreds of ugly, misogynistic, threatening messages after the fact is rather more problematic. It’s the fruit of the sense of entitlement and grievance that Bernie has sown in his personality cultists.
different-church-lady
@Mike J:
Bernie’s going for it — I say she should too!
FormerSwingVoter
@Baud:
Yep. She’s ahead on SUPAHDELEGATES, but she’s also well ahead on regular delegates and is 3 million ahead in the popular vote. I’m pretty sure Sanders needs to win every single remaining state and swing some super-delegates in order to even have a chance, mathematically.
WarMunchkin
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: I wasn’t alive then, but as I recall from my history classes, that year, there was a groundswell of anti-war activism, but most of the party leadership was pro-war. MLK and RFK were both anti-war. So yes, party bosses picked the nominee, but there was a fundamental ideological divide there that added salt to the wound of losing two towering figures.
There is no fundamental ideological divide between Clinton and Sanders. Unless you count a slightly greater emphasis on removing lead pipes over campaign contributions in larger than 27$ increments.
The great tragedy of this is that it’s over nothing. This reminds me of Y’all Qaeda saying that the federal government was taking over their lands. It just didn’t happen.
L Boom
@cleek: Hey, now. Bernie’s from Burlington, not Montpelier. Chittenden County (which contains Burlington) is a very different animal from the rest of the state. UVM, multiple colleges (although one fewer now!), mostly functioning economy, all sorts of stuff. As the cliche goes … “The nice thing about Chittenden County is that it’s so close to Vermont.”
And yes, I can’t even begin to tell you how screwed Burlington College students are. Fuck you, Jane.
burnspbesq
@NR:
The Democrats are nominating the candidate who won the nomination. You had a chance to do something about that, and you fucked it up. Too damn bad.
D58826
From Bernie’s top campaign staffer. Until the past week or so I thought that Bernie would come around and be a team player in the general. I don’t think that any more. IT will be really really hard to walk this back ‘heavy blow on Hillary Clnton in California’ in July
Rest of Polman’s article here http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/national-interest/item/93843-trumps-useful-idiot-bernie-sanders-will-qput-the-blinders-onq
John Cole
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: THE FUCKING RACE IS OVER. HE LOST. IT’S NOT ABOUT DROPPING OUT, IT’S ABOUT PUTTING DOWN THE MOLOTOV COCKTAILS AS HE EXITS.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST IT’S LIKE TALKING TO A WALL. THAT TALKS BACK GIBBERISH.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
At least Talking Points Memo has the guts to question their reporting of the accuracy of the events that took place in Nevada:
Talking Points Memo this afternoon tried to get to the bottom of what happened and the report was inconclusive: “There has been disagreement between Sanders supporters and those critical of their behavior Saturday over how violent the state convention actually was, and who is to blame. Descriptions of the day’s events recount shouting, interruptions, crude names and epithets being lobbed at party officials, and an evening that culminated in a group of Sanders backers rushing towards the stage and even flipping chairs. Only some of those incidents could be backed up by video evidence posted by those at Saturday’s convention and other reports.”
different-church-lady
I repeat: am I a fuckin’ genius or what?
aimai
@Michael Bersin: LOL.
I’ve just wasted the morning (damn!) arguing over at kos with the dead enders. They are nearing the weepy stage right before they curl up under the covers and refuse to come out, even if we promise them double helpings of ice cream with sprinkles. But with reference to John’s point in the OP about how they are, generally speaking, middle class white boys with nothing to lose there are many posters over at Kos who are insisting that they are die hard Bernie (women) or POC (very few of those) who are suffering right now–who don’t have “enough to eat” or who see a world dying all around them. Hard to tell what is the real, median, bernie supporter underneath all the hyperbole, hysteria, and delusional talk. Hard to say what is the real, median, experience. I think there are quite a few (but still probably in the thousands rather than the millions) Bernie supporters who geniunely experience themselves as crushed by fate and at the bottom of society. Bernie seems to them to be the only hand up, the only person speaking for them. And they are not going to give up that little frisson of power that they experience from first giving him their vote, and then withholding that vote from Hillary. Its all they think they have–their haven in a heartless world.
Baud
@JPL: I got that. But without superdelegates, there’s no way for the rigged system to give Bernie the nomination.
dedc79
I’m as frustrated by this nonsense as everyone, but what’s the point of doing this day after day? Better to ignore/isolate the crazies (shouting back at them certainly isn’t going to achieve anything productive), and avoid alienating the many Sanders supporters who intend to support Clinton when she becomes the nominee.
Yes, the month of May would’ve been much better spent unifying around Clinton. Yes, it sucks that the completely dysfunctional Republican party has united behind their
monsternominee before the Dems have our nominee. But there’s nothing we can do about that now other than support Clinton with our votes in the states that haven’t yet had their primaries. And while we wait out the few weeks until California, let’s keep our fire focused on Trump.rikyrah
true that.
JMG
Dear John: The time for anger is not quite now. Wait until June 8th. On that day, Sanders will have to recognize defeat and then decide what to do with it. It’s easy to threaten to blow things up when you still think maybe you can win. If after that he keeps ranting, then anger will be the order of the day. It’ll also be the day Obama endorses Clinton as the party’s choice, and we’ll see exactly which Sanders voters are just very liberal Democrats and which are Paulites, professional leftists who worship their misery as long as its only theoretical, and Internet trolls.
Mike in DC
You generally don’t get a speaking slot at the convention if you don’t openly endorse the nominee. Just a thought.
different-church-lady
@aimai:
And Bernie was quite willing to exploit those feelings, $27 at a time.
gwangung
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Like the manufactured harassment of women and POCs by Bernie Bros, eh? Never mind what the victims say or the evidence, but it’s got to be manufactured.
(The lack of self awareness that you’re acting JUST LIKE the patriarchal hegemony that you’re supposedly fighting against is what gets me….).
aimai
@Baud: They will write it off because “the fix was in” and DWS didn’t let Bernie debate Clinton enough, or at the right times.
gogol's wife
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
In my little town there are Bernie signs all up and down the ritziest street in town. It’s maddening!
cleek
@Cacti:
and this is a least the third time Sanders supporters have doxxed people who dared deny them.
http://www.mediaite.com/print/washington-post-reporter-doxxed-for-writing-critical-article-about-bernie-sanders/
https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughsandersspam/comments/4cdic4/so_apparently_sanders_fans_are_doxxing/
JPL
@Baud: They will simply say if the primaries weren’t closed, they would have won.
@John Cole: Thanks, blog boss.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
No, we aren’t the ones throwing Molotov Cocktails at anyone. YOU ARE.
We all know he’s not gonna win. EVEN BERNIE SUPPORTERS KNOW THIS. But it seems the Clinton camp can’t be graceful in its win.
Sitting Senators booing democrats who disagree with her.
Yeah, real mature.
gogol's wife
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Pro Clinton NY Times???
Hahahahahah
gogol's wife
@cleek:
I want my money back.
gwangung
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
River. Egypt.
different-church-lady
@cleek:
At this point we’re no longer dealing with a political movement; we’re dealing with internet subculture.
James E Powell
I’m curious to know if Sanders has an argument for California other than “We hate Hillary!” – Because he really ought to try to make one.
chopper
@Cacti:
you know what they say, the tree of entitlement must be refreshed from time to time with the tears of political cultists. or something.
WJS
Due to the fact that we’re not showing Bernie and his supporters enough love, isn’t it clear that liberalism has failed? Or is that an oversimplification?
I’m also not clear about the racism thing. Donald Trump’s supporters are racist fucks. They have terrible lives because many of them live in places that reject providing a basic safety net and Obummercare and all of that. They can’t get decent jobs because someone keeps seeing their tattoos and their Facebook pages. I’m comfortable voting for Hillary because, despite everything she’s going to do to actually improve the lives of people who hate her, she’s not going to unleash a pack of vandals and jackasses on anyone unless the New York Times says she can.
I agree with the sentiment of saying fuck these people. I doubt very much whether they were going to vote Democratic Party candidates in the first place.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@gwangung:
Like the assault against a Sanders Woman by a Clinton supporter?
Sanders apologized. Where’s Clintons response?
D58826
@Nashville_fan: Well the way things are going When President Trump has Ted’s senate seat moved out to the local land fill, the democrats can move Bernie’s right next to it. AT least the two men will have that location and being the most hated men in the Senate in common. Maybe they could become friends – you know politics and strange land fill fellows
singfoom
What molotov cocktails has the Clinton campaign thrown? It’s the Bernie campaign supporters freaking out and harassing people and leaving death threats.
Show me on the doll where the Clinton campaign touched you.
aimai
@JMG: I just really hate being told by random people to calm down about this. No. We should not calm down. If anything we shoudl ramp up the pressure because , despite the whining of the dead enders, it is driving tepid “send a message” Sanders supporters away from him. I see many fewer people thinking that its ok to give Sanders a vote to “push Hillary to the Left” than I did before Nevada. And Sanders, at this point, needs to start losing big in the remaining states. Not because Hillary needs those delegates to win but because Sanders needs to realize that he has no “momentum” and that he has lost any future support. Sanders is impervious to courtesy, logic, or assumptions of good behavior at this point. He needs to be flamenwerfed with flamen with a werfer that werfs flam.
Cacti
@cleek:
The fact that Bernie didn’t have boo to say about the sex-specific slurs heaped on Democratic women leaders by his faithful, is the low water mark of his campaign, IMO.
? Martin
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
No, he should drop out because his campaign chair is now running an anti-Democratic party campaign by declaring to every media outlet that the Democratic Party is corrupt and is cheating.
RaflW
A friend and former elected official in ultra-lib Madison, WI posted an E.J. Dionne column last night on FB. My friend is a Bernie guy both in actual support and in being far left of average Dems.
This morning he is shocked by how many of his friends have attacked him just for even posting the Dionne column. He didn’t say ZMOG I’m now a Clinton fan, he just said the column was interesting. Yeah, now he is learning first hand about the unhinged nature of a core part of Bernie’s fan base.
I tend to dismiss people who say the far left is as nuts as the right, but I ain’t so sure any more. There absolutely is a difference in the influence right wingers have on the GOP than the left has on Dems, but the blind passion, the frequent resort to conspiracy theories as well as personal attacks on even the slightest apostasy among fellow travellers, that looks awfully similar.
petesh
@John Cole: I WUV U JOHN COLE
singfoom
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Sanders apologized in the most petulant bullshit way possible and if you can’t recognize that, you’ve got blinders on.
Secondly, the assault you’re referencing happened in a hotel, nowhere near any official primary events, so the two things are not like the other. One has the involvement of actual campaign members, the other is just a random person assaulting another random person with no campaign involvement.
chopper
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
well then stop throwing a fucking tantrum over it. grow the fuck up, grab a pickaxe and join the rest of us.
aimai
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: “Sitting Senators Booing People who disagree with her?” Oh, this is the last word in Berniephysics, a world in which things that happen later cause things that happened before to happen. So Barbara Boxer responding to the booing and the obscenities is to blame for the booing and the obscenities?
gwangung
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Don’t pull that bullshit. You’re again acting like the patriarchal hegemony you say you’re fighting. Denying the experience, deflecting the behavior, distracting the gaze elsewhere.
JMG
@aimai: That’s a perfectly valid point of view with which I agree some of the time. You just don’t want to make the very liberal Democrats faction of Sanders supporters feel you’re mad at them. People who feel shamed seldom have constructive reactions.
Nashville_fan
@D58826: Sorry . . I blacked out after the President Trump part . . . take it back! ;o(
different-church-lady
You know who else was a fuckin’ genius or what? Johnny Rotten:
aimai
@Cacti: Oh, I think he can go lower.
Bob In Portland
It’s so hard to turn away from the loving embrace that John Cole extends to those to his left on the political spectrum. It’s this warm embrace of John and the Hillary supporters that will bring victory in November.
Michael Bersin
@aimai:
Early on in the Missouri delegate selection process (after the county caucus/convention portion) there were breathless social media posts from Bernie Sanders supporters about flipping the national delegate numbers. Pointing out that the Missouri delegate selection process (easily understandable and accessible) distributed the national delegates based exclusively on the March primary vote was like throwing a wet blanket into a blast furnace and about as effective in getting the point across. Hillary received 36 national delegates, Bernie received 35. That was it. The rest of the caucus process was/is about who among those candidate’s supporters get to be their candidate’s national delegates. Too many people don’t RTFM.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
does the doll have a twitter feed?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
Investors Business Daily:
Give me a 100$ mil and I SWEAR IM GONNA HELP POOR WORKING CLASS PEOPLE!
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: Hey, I just want you to know that the whole Bob/Robert/Roberta thing still isn’t resolved in my head. But I promise not to respond to you until it is.
singfoom
@Bob In Portland: You’re a liar and a crank and you don’t discuss anything in good faith. Go troll somewhere else. Your behavior here is well documented and if you feel like you’re not being welcomed, well, you did it to yourself with your bad faith and bullshit.
So go fuck yourself.
petesh
@aimai:
C’est magnifique, et c’est aussi la guerre
Bob In Portland
@chopper: Well, this is a corporatist site, so you won’t have to worry about the bottom 90%.
D58826
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You really should your doctor triple your meds if you take that sentence seriously.
Triple Dawg Troll
Ah, the sweet song of Revolution can be heard in this thread–LIBERTY, FRATERNITY, DOUCHEBAGGERY.
To the (Twitter) Barricade, Comrades! We have a Fascist to elect!
Chyron HR
@NR:
Of course, it all makes sense now.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: It sounds as if the Sanders campaign’s current game plan is to damage Clinton so much that she clearly can’t beat Donald Trump, and the superdelegates are forced to switch to Sanders at the convention to avoid a Trump landslide.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@chopper:
So far as I know Coles the only one throwing a temper tantrum.
Dog Dawg Damn
Ah, the sweet song of Revolution can be heard in this thread–LIBERTY, FRATERNITY, DOUCHEBAGGERY.
To the (Twitter) Barricade, Comrades! We have a Fascist to elect!
LAO
@different-church-lady: Remind me not to piss you off. LOL.
MattMinus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Is it Backwards Day again and nobody told me?
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike J:
Clearly, they don’t listen to A Prairie Home Companion.a
Mike J
@different-church-lady: Johnny Rotten had 10,000x the media savvy of the Sanders campaign.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@D58826:
The New York Times is in the bag for Clinton. Why don’t you go check out their website and find me some Pro Sanders Anti Clinton articles?
chopper
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
so you know for a fact that bernie isn’t going to win, so you aim to harm the actual democratic candidate as much as possible. out of spite.
WJS
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: On average, about 89% of that $100 million will go to programs supported by the Clinton Foundation, so what’s your point? Did you want the Clinton Foundation to bail out Burlington College?
Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: If you know it’s so unlikely that Sanders will get the nomination that you might just as well say he won’t, then what exactly is the point? I mean, I’m an east coast elitist who pays very little attention to what happens in the big empty desert states of the far west, but is a profitless dead-end stubbornness a common attitude out in Nevada? Because when I think of all the republican state governments west of the Mississippi, such an attitude would begin to explain why they might exist.
Poopyman
@John Cole: You need to knock off with the all caps. I hear the blog owner really doesn’t like that stuff.
WJS
I think we’ve been had! Is that you, MikeJ?
Bergman
I wish Bernie’s supporters were at least funny. I tend to lurk on boards and see where the truly witty commenters finally end up. In ’08 it was with Obama. Hard to believe but ALL the wit this time around is with Hillary. In truth, she’s got a great sense of humor. Sanders appears to have a 4X4 up his ass, even when he’s grinning at a bird on the podium, as if he’d just passed the thing.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
chopper
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
riiiiiiight. jesus ball-scratching christ, you guys have more projection than the local multiplex.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@JMG: DC doesn’t vote until June 14 (polls close at 8 pm)…
Should we start a clock? 629 hours to go…
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@chopper:
Jonathan is continuing to refuse to put on his big boy pants until we agree to let him have ice cream for dinner forever!
Bob In Portland
@singfoom: I’ve been accused of being a liar, by Patroclus, two days ago, over Obama deporting more undocumenteds than any other president in history. Guess what? I was right.
So the two latest polls show Hillary losing to Trump. They are polls that historically have been slanted towards Republicans. So we can ignore those polls. We can ignore Nate Silver’s article too.
Here’s the problem: You people are elitists. You like being in the in-crowd. And part of the pleasure is punching down on your lessers. I’m a lesser, apparently. So are the 45% of voters in the Democratic primaries who support Sanders. You don’t even recognize the complaints about the current state of the Democratic Party and Clinton.
And guess what? You’ll probably get the nomination. You may even win in November. Or you can blame Sanders. You see, all bases covered.
pseudonymous in nc
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
No, Bernie should drop out because the longer he pretends that the ultimate result is not in doubt, the more he has to twist the narrative into one of a stolen nomination, and the more his campaign becomes beholden to a new variety of Truther.
He could have kept competing on the fucking issues right through to the end without turning it into a fucking purity pity party, but he and Weaver and the other #BernItDown-ers chose otherwise.
different-church-lady
@John Cole: Never talk back to a wall. You hurt your head and the wall enjoys it.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I just come here for the entertainment.
Son, I hope you’ve got some L0rtab laying around – you’re going to need some pain meds….
Bob In Portland
@chopper: Nothing to worry about.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/18/the-faux-fracas-in-nevada-how-a-reporters-pack-of-lies-ran-riot-in-the-fact-averse-media/
when you blow up an issue like this, you have to expect pushback.
Cacti
Illustrating the lack of self-awareness among male Bernie cultists, Rolling Stone followed up with some of the idiots who let their contact information slip through with their threats/verbal abuse/menacing of Roberta Lange.
They were all genuinely surprised that their borderline to outright criminal behavior towards a public official would be publicized.
Amir Khalid
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Two points:
1) Sanders’ apology for the actions of people representing his campaign at a Democratic party meeting came with a very big “but”, big enough to make people doubt its sincerity.
2) If Wendell Pierce is a representative of Hillary’s campaign in any capacity, rather than just a citizen who supports her, it has not been reported so far. If presidential candidates were obliged to track the behaviour of every last supporter and apologise for any transgressions, when would the candidates have time to campaign?
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Man, I have no idea where people ever got the idea Sanderites have a persecution complex.
dr. bloor
@Arm The Homeless:
chopper
and in all honesty, how hard is it to figure out how to blockquote?
Miss Bianca
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: osculare fundamentum, stultus. Or rather, since it might as well be your name: Stulte.
ETA: Cole said it better. As usual.
pseudonymous in nc
@Bob In Portland:
Wow, that’s a rich and stinky mixture of projection and self-delusion. Go and cry on Putin’s shoulder, Bob.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@pseudonymous in nc:
Did you listen to his speech to the thousands of Cali Folk the other night?
No?
Didn’t think so.
Sanders said its gonna be a steep uphill climb.
He knows it’s over. He’s said TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN that he will support Clinton as the Nominee. He’s said TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN that TRUMP is a 100X worse than anything a Democrat has ever done.
scav
@Baud:
Come now. JHB knows Cole better than Cole knows Cole because JHB has been lurking, in uniform no less, forever, since before the the blog even existed. Back to when it was carved in binary Latin using flint chips!
Bob In Portland
@John Cole: You know, John, perhaps if you put up ten posts a day about Fuck Sanders and his no good trash you’ll be able to convince the deadender, old hippie, young college student who wants everything for free, white racist, misogynistic, Bundyish et al Sanders supporters to just shut up and watch the Penguins. Try a little harder.
By the way, do you think that Rendell’s candidate for Senate is going to win this fall?
chopper
@Cacti:
there’s an entire ignorant-ass cohort in american society that has convinced itself that the internet magically makes them completely anonymous.
NR
@burnspbesq:
That’s a tautology if I’ve ever heard one. I’ve never disputed that the Dems are nomination Hillary Clinton. What I’ve been saying for months is that she’s a weak candidate who has a very high chance of losing to Trump. And the polls are starting to agree with me.
aimai
@petesh: I think I’m blushing. Merci beaucoup.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Well, definitely hoping you’re right on that one.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Maybe some “progressives” can send Ralston death threats too.
He can join the evil Barbara Boxer up against the wall when the people’s revolutionary candidate is triumphant.
slag
My concerns exactly. I’m hoping adulthood eventually kicks in. But I’m a dreamer.
Mike J
dmsilev
@James E Powell:
Well, they gave ‘Barbara Boxer is a bitch’ a shot as a slogan; we’ll see how that plays.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
The hill is gone. Bernie is on a treadmill that’s about to stop. He can set that treadmill as steep as he wants, but there’s no hill left because he lost.
aimai
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Did he say it last night? I’m curious. Because I heard that he let his mob shout “bernie or bust” over and over again.
Bob In Portland
@Amir Khalid: Wendell Pierce pulled a woman’s hair.
So what?
Baud
@Mike J: We have our GOP Veep nominee.
? Martin
What the Bernie supporters clearly don’t get is that attacking the Democratic party with the goal of getting primary reform (which seems to be Bernies stated goal right now) is only going to have the effect of ensuring that Democrats close up their primaries and exclude the non-party members from participating. I don’t like that outcome, but you can’t blame the party for protecting itself from a group of people that clearly don’t have the Democratic party interests at heart – interests that include organization, fundraising, coalition building and so on.
The best way to get the kind of change you want is to show how the reforms you want will strengthen the party. Right now you are only demonstrating how those reforms threaten the party. For a bunch of people that proclaim to be anti-war, you are taking an alarmingly aggressive position on this.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Apparently it was Dana Bash, of all people (source):
I remember watching that debate and the question and non-answer, but I had forgotten that Bash was the moderator.
ETA: That may have been one of the last of the Dem debates, and I’m not aware that anyone has asked him the question since then (because LOOK! SHINY SQUIRREL!!)
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne: Mnem, there’s a hippie over there. Go punch him.
Eric U.
speaking of ’68, Sanders reminds me of McCarthy a little. In fact, McCarthy apparently ran on the corruptness of the Democratic party.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Amir Khalid:
If you really thought he was going to genuflect before the altar of the DNC, I’ve got a bridge to see you in Alaska.
Aren’t yall just a little bit upset that a Democratic Candidates office was shot up and his supporters offices broken into?
If this had happened to Clinton, yall would be calling me worse names than Moron and idiot.
chopper
@pseudonymous in nc:
sounds like you haven’t read Listen, Liberal yet.
Miss Bianca
@different-church-lady: a comic genius, for sure. Prescient, too!
Mnemosyne
@dmsilev:
I can’t imagine how booing and insulting a popular California senator three weeks before we vote can possibly go wrong for Bernie’s campaign. Can you?
Chyron HR
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
The absolute bastard.
Trollhattan
@burnspbesq:
It really, really needed Clint Eastwood holding it to tie everything together. My second choice.
jsrtheta
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Erm, no. I was old enough to watch and follow, and the convention was not “blown up” by any “party regulars.” The demonstrating, rioting and general mayhem had been planned well in advance, and executed in horrific fashion. It had little, if anything, to do with party honchos and a lot to do with the Vietnam War.
Tom Q
@Amir Khalid: It wasn’t just that the apology was followed by a “but” (and, as the old saying goes, everything prior to “but” is bullshit). It was that it was surrounded by massive verbiage explaining all the reasons why violent response was completely understandable.
Honestly, the statement was so long and full of rationalization, and the apology so grudging and terse, that it was easier finding Waldo than finding any contrition.
Cacti
@Mnemosyne:
Publicly, Boxer is being a team player and saying “I had a good talk with Senator Sanders, etc.”. Privately, I would imagine she’s pulling every string she can to make sure he loses CA by the widest margin possible.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: Bob/Robert/Roberta: hey, sorry to bother you again, but I just want to make sure you saw what I said at #84. Won’t trouble you again with this.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@? Martin:
At the beginning of the campaign he was for reform when those 400 Superdelegates declared for Clinton right off the bat.
Now he’s trying to convince those Supers that he’s a better Candidate in the General against Trump. There’s a great article out there on Intercept about the creation of the supers in the early 80s as a way to keep the Mcgoverns from getting the nomination.
inventor
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Investors Business Daily….for those that are sick and tired of the liberal bias of World Net Daily.
MattMinus
@? Martin:
You don’t think that “Hi, we’d like to destroy your corrupt political party forever. Please give us the means to do this or risk losing our votes” is a compelling argument?
burnspbesq
Is it way off base to imagine a meeting of the Sanders senior campaign staff looking a lot like the Delta house meeting where the parade mayhem was planned?
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You need detox, stat.
Trollhattan
@Eric U.:
“Get clean for Gene” was about more than DFHs chopping their locks. Maybe Bernie can start a “Bob that hipster bun for Bern” meme.
cleek
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
who broke into “his supporters” offices ? and, which “supporters” ?
serious question. google only tells me about Rand Paul’s office being broken into.
The Thin Black Duke
Thing is, this bullshit has happened before. This same old bullshit happened with “Gamergate”. This same old bullshit happened in the SF community with the “Sad Puppies” at the Hugos. And now the same old bullshit is going on with Bernie Sanders. It always seems to be the same mob of loudmouth bigoted angry white guys with the same old bullshit.
Tom Q
@Eric U.: McCarthy in fact was a real asshole who ended up alienating many of his supporters by refusing to endorse Humphrey till sometime so close to Election Day that it barely helped.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Cacti:
Hah! Boxer condescending Bernie Supporters def does NOT make her a team player. Same for Reid and DiFi. They’re all part of the corporate neoliberal Warhawk Clinton.
Do you really want more War and Wall St greed?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@different-church-lady: rofl. Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Cacti
@different-church-lady:
Haven’t you heard? Glenn Greenwald, Amy Goodman, and Matt Taibbi are the beating heart of working class sentiment, per JHB.
I wonder if a single one of them has done a hand’s turn of manual labor for pay in their entire lives.
D58826
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: No, we aren’t the ones throwing Molotov Cocktails at anyone. YOU ARE.
We all know he’s not gonna win. EVEN BERNIE SUPPORTERS KNOW THIS. But it seems the Clinton camp can’t be graceful in its win.
different-church-lady
@inventor: I’m starting to detect the distinct aroma of rodents fresh from carnal activities.
SiubhanDuinne
@different-church-lady:
I think the nym is new here, but the troll’s style is all too familiar. He’s been around these parts a long time under one guise or another.
(But yeah, pretty rich when a purported newbie comes galloping in and immediately begins lecturing our bloghost and addressing him/referring to him cavalierly as “Cole.”)
? Martin
@MattMinus: Its funny, I looked for that chapter in ‘How To Win Friends and Influence People’ and somehow it was omitted.
Trollhattan
@pseudonymous in nc:
That’s Putin’s MANLY shoulder to you, kulak.
Miss Bianca
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Oh yeah, “Investor’s Business Daily” is the epitome of an unbiased source…it’s like National Review’s version of the Wall Street Journal. Wait till you see what they end up writing about Bernie Sanders – oh, wait! they already have! “The Bum Who Wants Your Money!” Wow, let’s look, shall we?
Sure you want to keep quoting IBD as your news source, Stulte?
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
The DNC is the organization that funds and organizes the presidential election for Democrats. What kind of idiot thinks he can ignore and insult them and still become the Democratic nominee for president? Even if Bernie had won, he would have had to work closely with the DNC, idiot.
Bob In Portland
@SiubhanDuinne: Hillary Clinton & family have had three billion dollars from the very rich pass through their hands since 2001. One might suggest that the Clintons enriched themselves by the right-wing deals Bill made with Republicans prior to leaving office. One could say that the Deutsche Bank is shelling money to the Clintons for taking the chains off the banks.
You could insinuate that the reason the defense industry funnels money to the Clintons has to do with her tendency to wage wars. You could suggest that the donations from the private prison industry were because the private prison industry grew so magnificently during the Clinton years. You could say that Senator Shaheen’s hubby, who is lobbyist for the biggest oxycontin pusher in New England, supports Hillary for her strong stand against marijuana. You could say Secretary of State Clinton’s glowing words about that guy down in Colombia who runs with drug dealers and death squads had to do with that Clinton Global Initiative oil deal with the same guy. Times a thousand.
But villagers here inside the dome demand further proof. Sorry, you’ll never get any proof. So don’t worry. She’ll probably never be indicted. Too big to fail, too big to jail.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I know, right.
She has some nerve not just standing there with a demure smile while BernieBros screamed “bitch” at her.
Who do these chicks think they are?
? Martin
@The Thin Black Duke:
Correlation is not causation, but correlation is not nothing either. I agree.
aimai
@Cacti: Jesus Christ. Everybody should read that Rolling Stone interview and just hang their heads in shame that these assholes are the backbone of Bernie’s party. It reads like the worst Gamergater/PUA/MRA special pleading. “I sent the threat but it wasn’t a threat. I’m not the kind of guy who would threaten someone, although I did.” The last guy is a straight up sociopath and narcissist. “Just wanted to set the mood.” The mind, it is boggled.
Baud
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
It would be a welcome respite from primary threads.
Trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, the dripping condescension has a familiar cadence and is reminiscent of an adult who really misses her/his teen years. .
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne: You know, you look good standing shoulder to shoulder with Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Ed Rendell and Chuck Schumer. Fighting the good fight. Heh heh heh.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@The Thin Black Duke:
Oh yeah, those milennials out there sure are racist and sexist! And to think young people are voting overwhelmingly for the Socialist who fights for working class principles over Wall st Billionaires and Goldman Sachs!
HOOCOODANODE!
But you go ahead and lump them all with the misogynistic assholes playing video games at home, that’ll show em!
Bob In Portland
@SiubhanDuinne: Because the proper respect for the guy who shouts fuck you at you is to address him as Professor. Got it.
pseudonymous in nc
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Wow, the Bernfeelers are really going to the one news outlet that makes the WSJ’s opinion pages look like models of balance? Why not quote Alex Jones while you’re at it?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Baud:
BAUD FOR 2020
Jeffro
@JMG:
That’s a great point – I can see that being quite likely to happen. He’ll step in, note that HRC is over the top, call for unity, and put it on Sanders to “bring the Democratic party together in common cause just as Secretary Clinton did in 2008, when she ran an even closer campaign against me and came up just short.”
Bern that, Bern.
Shell
And give your fucking CAPS-lock a rest.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: There we go, now you’re in the spirit of this thing!
SiubhanDuinne
@burnspbesq:
Feel the burnsie!
Bob In Portland
@Baud: Ah, but you’ll be complaining next war, wringing your hands and wondering how we accidentally ended up killing the brown people on this or that patch of land that coincidentally has oil underneath it.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Barbara Boxer is a popular California Democratic senator. Democrats out here like her.
California’s primary is not being held until June 7th.
Yeah, it was a great strategy to boo and insult her when the state she represents hasn’t voted yet. I’m sure Bernie won over millions of Californa Democrats that way.
I thought it was only the right-wing troll who thought all of those PUA tactics like “negging” actually work on voters, but apparently you’re under that same strange illusion.
scav
From the Book of JHB, 99gazillion: 13
where it is demonstrated that all of the benefits of team membership and perfect courtesy are to be automatically afforded to the individuals who in the next sentence trash the team.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Funny thing about that. While a similar study about sexist attitudes isn’t out there AFAIK…
Study found that white millennials aren’t significantly less racist than Boomers or X’ers.
Captain C
@Arm The Homeless: I’m pretty sure that by now, Bernie will have a fat congressional pension to live off of if he decides to retire in ’18.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne:
You’re making a distinction I’m not seeing.
WarMunchkin
My god, you two.
What do you even want? I’m asking for real. Like, what would make you happy?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Cacti:
Ugh
FWIW I would’ve called her an asshole instead.
Bernie cares wayyyy more about working class women than that Corporate DNC official.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: He is indeed the kindest, the bravest, the warmest, the most wonderful.
burnspbesq
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
War and “Wall Street Greed” are part of the landscape. They will be with us forever, and there is nothing that you, I, or any Presidemt of the United States can do about that.
What does matter, at the margins only, is how the Federal government responds to them. Obama has put smart, hard-woking people in place at DOJ, SEC, and CFPB, and real progress is being made. I’d like to see those people continue to do that work, but I expect that Sanders or Trump would purge them, Ssanders because they once worked at Eebil BigLaw and Trump because they’re good at what they do.
Your understanding of how the world actually works is in dire need of an upgrade.
redshirt
Barring a new thread, we’re forecasting a 75% chance of a Tbogg by 5PM EDT.
Trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
I’ll miss Boxer as much as I’ll miss Obama. Harris has some tough shoes to fill, I hope she brings her heavy bag and gloves to the senate. (Am presuming DiFi’s on her last term and IMHO is well past her sell-by date.)
different-church-lady
@redshirt: Cole’s chum brings all the sharks to the yard.
JMG
@aimai: I thought I’d posted this earlier but my mistake. I have much sympathy for your point of view, which I share sometimes. But one doesn’t want to drive the plain old very liberal Democrat side of the Sanders team into the arms of the dead enders by making them feel as if we’re shaming THEM, which of course you’re not. As I said, once Obama says “game over,” then Sanders will be forced to put up on his promise to vigorously support the nominee. Until then, any threats from his side seem empty to me.
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq: It’s over, right? So why the fuck are you winners whining? Should the rest of primaries be cancelled? Is that’s what’s bothering you, bunky?
What with the whole superdelegate scam this nomination was secured before anyone voted. So great. Celebrate your democratic victory. Hip hip hooray.
Perhaps if you keep punching down on people who find your candidate corrupt, wholly-owned and responsible for the Democratic Party replacing the Republicans as Wall Street’s party of choice you’ll convince them to shut up and go off to their low-paying jobs. In fact, that seems to be what you’re doing. How’s it working?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Cacti:
That’s your argument?
There’s only one fight in this country and that’s the 99% against the 1%. Rich v Poor.
I’ll take the person who stands up for the poor person every single time.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Is that what he tells all of his bitches?
Mike J
@different-church-lady:
He tried to bait Hillary supporters with a thread about bad behavior on her side and everybody unanimously condemned it. If nobody sticks up for the assholes, there’s no argument, no TBU.
aimai
@Mnemosyne: Yes. But shhhhh. The women bernfeelers will get angry if you mention the similiarities.
grandpa john
@WJS: I often wonder why it is so damn difficult for people to remember this old addage that I post here during times like these.
SenyorDave
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Are you seriously using Investor’s Business Daily as a source? Maybe you should read up on their “journalistic philosophy”. Here’s a start:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Investor%27s_Business_Daily
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
As it relates to alleged millennial enlightenment?
Absolutely. Was there some part about white millennials being as racist as anyone else that was unclear to you?
burnspbesq
@Bob In Portland:
If you want to accuse somene of a crime, show up with admissible evidence that proves every element of the offense beyond a reasonable doubt, or don’t show up at all.
Now, make yourself useful: bring us all something from Voodoo Doughnuts.
shinobi42
OT but did anyone read this great Matt Taibbi article [about Trump and the decline or the GOP?](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/r-i-p-gop-how-trump-is-killing-the-republican-party-20160518?page=5)
Special Quote for John Cole:
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: Never mind three weeks before the primary, early voting is well under way and has been for the last week or so.
burnspbesq
@Bob In Portland:
Ask me again after I’ve had a chance to hear her Inaugural Address.
The Thin Black Duke
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: It make me sad and it makes me angry that the women I know are terrified of the goddamned assholes that you’re defending, dude. Jesus, are you trying to sound like the worse type of chauvinistic stereotype on purpose?
Iowa Old Lady
@aimai: I read but don’t comment there and I occasionally nod approvingly at your comments. You are far braver then I am.
Steve in the ATL
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Yeah, that’s 100% wrong, but thanks for stopping by
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq:
I absolutely agree with you. Why do you believe that? What political forces in the United States are greater than our political system?
Redshift
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Bwahahaha! First you insist that no one can know what happened in Nevada because Hillary people say one thing and Bernie people say another, pretending there were no journalists present.
Then, to cover your ass over that, you post a link from a relentlessly pro-Bernie blogger “proving” that the veteran journalist reporting on the event is totally a pro-Hillary shill (because the only possible motivation for anyone who says something that reflects badly on Bernie is that they’re a pro-Hillary shill.) My favorite bit is how the lack of video of the chair throwing proves he made the whole thing up. I presume you’ll be retracting the many accusations you’ve made against Clinton supporters for which there’s no video?
D58826
From huffington
. Well that should put to rest any doubts we may have had as to Trumps vision and leadership qualities.
Miss Bianca
@Bob In Portland:
“one might suggest”
“you might insinuate”
“you could say”
You’re flat out admitting you don’t have any proof of quid pro quo, BiP. And you don’t cite any actual proof, I notice. Two can play this game.
“One might suggest” that you’re a bitter cranky old dude who just can’t let go of Clinton hate.
“You might insinuate” that the kind of bright shiny attitude you share with us makes you the poster boy for “post office guy we all hated to deal with.”
“You could say” that your propensity for castigating us for our refusal to throw our collective arms around smarmy know-it-alls like Thomas Frank and refusing to endorse the antics of Bernfeelers is more a reflection on you and your “you’re liberaling all wrong, you liberal assholes!” mindset than it is on us.
And i’ll even offer proof…in the form of every post you’ve ever written here.
There. See how that works?
Shell
So what makes you any different than the asshole who screamed ‘You lie’ at Obama at the State o f the Union?
Class all the way
sigaba
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
“If only the Tsar knew!”
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@burnspbesq:
I agree with you to an extent. While I agree that Obama has put in place smart, hardworking people in the CFPB, I have to disagree about the SEC and DOJ. They are filled with former lobbyists from the Financial Industry. Eric Holder – Citigroup. SEC has refused to jail any Wall St CEOs who engaged in the systemic corruption of the Financial sector.
Obama puts these people in charge and he wonders why there is such pushback from the Voters.
And why does there have to be Wall St and War?
I refuse to accept that premise. So we should just sit by and watch the DNC establishment hand over boat loads of profits to the corporations while ordinary laborers are suffering paycheck to paycheck and our sons and daughters in the military are murdered for no cause?
Yeah, no thx
piratedan
@The Thin Black Duke: ding!
Strikes me as a bunch of that is what is sitting at the core of this small bundle of rage and hate.
I actually get that the initial message was awesome, income inequality is real. The lack of economic opportunity exists. Crushing debt for acquiring education and job skills exists. None of that is made up.
What the Sandernistas don’t seem to understand, so does bigotry, sexism and real concerns about climate change and they are just as potent motivators for voters as HIS issues.
They just want things to change, but don’t seem to be fussed with how they get changed, whereas the rest of us would like to see the process take place rather than just the hand waving of someone pointing and saying, I’ve had the idea, YOU make it a reality as if they we’re Captain bleeping Picard. Harkening back to the link that Chris posted, how do we fix what is wrong, how do we restore the respect that comes with having a job and doing it well. Aren’t there enough things that need doing? Can’t we own up to the fact that getting shit done costs money and that we’re going to tax the rich people more and businesses more in order to make it happen?
Trollhattan
@Miss Bianca:
I’m-a just sit here and applaud while I figure out where to snag lunch,
The Sheriff's A Ni-
Here’s a fun game: Match each of the above to its relevant local Bernie Bro. Go!
Dog Dawg Damn
@The Thin Black Duke:
To the tune of Les Miserables:
“Red – An Angry White Man’s Face!
Black – The Voters Who Weren’t There
Red – The Color of Disgrace
Black – The Color of Obama’s Hair!”
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Shell:
Seriously? You’re gonna lump me in with Wilson from Alabama?
That dudes a fucking fascist.
Let’s try this again. Boxer pissed off the Sanders supporters on PURPOSE. She egged them on because she’s in a position of power within the DNC. She told those passionate supporters who wanted to engage in the process that their voice didn’t count.
Bob In Portland
@Miss Bianca: Exactly. I have no proof that true believers will believe. You know, in politics, quid pro quos don’t usually show up with signed confessions. If, at this late stage in your intellectual development, you don’t see a connection between money and politics then I certainly can’t convince you.
Now, in the past even here at Balloon Juice, there was an acknowledgement of money having a connection with Republicans. I remember long angry discussions about K Street. No more. Just so you realize that you changed, not the connection between money and politics.
Amir Khalid
Are we going for a TBogg unit with every Hillary/Bernie post now? Because 500+ comments are a real pain to read through, especially when half of them are from Jonathan Hollandaise Bechamel and BiP.
redshirt
I think Bob’s on the verge of convincing everyone here that we’re all wrong.
Have you read “Listen, Liberals”? It’s all in there.
SenyorDave
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: SEC has refused to jail any Wall St CEOs who engaged in the systemic corruption of the Financial sector.
I would assume you meant to say refuse to put on trial, or do you believe that the criminal code allows the gov’t to jail people without a trial. Or do you get your legal opinions from the IBD?
singfoom
This whole voting for people more than once and building local political parties up and changing things is reaaaaaalllly harrd. It’s so UNFAIR that I can’t make the world exactly how I want it to be with no care for the rules or the context in which I find myself.
It’s not like arguing with a wall that speaks gibberish, it’s like arguing with a hormonal 13 year old that’s taken qualudes.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Because it really takes a lot to get Sanders supporters pissed off. Must be the cheerful, upbeat public persona of their preferred candidate.
redshirt
@Amir Khalid: Amazingly, last night’s Tbogg had no BiP at all.
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq: Just put it off until her first declaration of war.
Mike J
@Amir Khalid: Chuck’s troll-be-gone filter not only nukes their comments, but any comments responding to them. I literally only have three people in my filter. It cuts the tbogg length threads in half.
My Truth Hurts
I think John and a lot of others miss the point. Many Bernie fans are not hyper partisan Democrats. They vote Democratic but they don’t give a fuck about the party because the party doesn’t give a fuck about most Democratic voters. So get mad all you want that they are “destroying” the party (they are not), but protecting the party was never in their interests or one of their goals. Fuck the Democratic Party is the point just as much as Trump means fuck the GOP.
I know all you authoritarian types like having a team and a leader and big bad daddy figure to hold your hand but the times they are a changing.
mak
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Really? Just this morning on local Philly radio, I heard a Bernie surrogate state, in response to the question “can BS win the nomination?” that YES, he can win. This guy was debating Ed Rendell (yes, that Ed Rendell), so presumably wasn’t some crazed random Bernout supporter, but was rather an official campaign surrogate. The most he would allow is that victory was unlikely. So obviously the delusion/deceit goes to the upper echelons of the campaign.
Captain C
@Miss Bianca: And that quoted section sounds like the basis for any number of Super-PAC attack ads in the general were Bernie to win the nomination.
No one’s laid a serious glove on him yet.
pseudonymous in nc
@burnspbesq:
Voodoo Doughnuts are Wall Street corporate sellouts. DINOs. Blue Star or bust!
(Seriously, though, Blue Star are better, regardless of what we think of Boob In Putinland.)
Poopyman
Subject of an email I just pulled out of my Junk folder:
Cacti
Maybe the first honest comment Boob in Putinland has made here.
chopper
@Cacti:
you have to understand here, the “team” in “team player” isn’t the democratic party, it’s “team bernie”.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@piratedan:
You mean the Democratic Party that hasn’t fought against the Republicans? Tell me again who loses state after state legislature to the republicans? Who has seen the rise of the right with only a whimper?
The democratic party’s approval ratings are in the tank because they HAVENT DONE ANYTHING FOR THEIR WORKING CLASS VOTERS.
Dead end jobs, the highest income inequality, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, republican state after state passing fascist laws, AND THE DNC DOES NOTHING.
Poor people starve while you say they need to wait a few years, that change is sure a coming…
West of the Cascades
@burnspbesq:
Ugh. People who know donuts in Portland go to Blue Star. Bob probably does prefer Voodoo.
ETA: I see pseudonymous in nc at 235 already made this point more effectively …
Matt McIrvin
@Bob In Portland:
If this were true, Clinton would have been the nominee in 2008. But the superdelegates switched to Obama that year, because he was ahead in pledged delegates (and was not obviously objectionable for any reason).
I’m not fond of the whole superdelegate system; I’d rather see it scrapped. But if there were no superdelegates, Clinton would still be ahead. Clinton isn’t the one currently trying to flip them and nullify the actual primary vote. This isn’t complicated.
Trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
Put it this way: as long as they’re busy providing yards of thread copy there are at least a couple third-wave coffee shop baristas who are extremely grateful they’re not currently being yelled at over the lack of a fair trade soy milk option.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
mighty male of you there, dogg.
Woodrowfan
huh I did not know Sander’s wife got her doctorate from the same diploma mill where Michelle Bachman’s husband got his. ewww.
Before this campaign I liked Bernie, and almost voted for him in Virginia’s primary. As the election has gone on I like him less and less
aimai
@Iowa Old Lady: I’ve just had it with these loons. One of them just told me sadly that I wasn’t “engaging in the dialectic” and had “reduced her to a meme!” So that was that then.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@mak:
Lol butttt I’m a Balloon Juice supporter so you have to give me a little more credit!
Cacti
@chopper:
Bernie is like a house guest who shits on the rug, then calls you a bad host if you don’t let him rub your face in it.
msdc
The good news is, this is also a losing coalition.
Trollhattan
@West of the Cascades:
Definitely the spot where a Seattleite needs to yell “Top Pot!”
Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
If you already concede that Sanders is not going to be the democratic nominee, what does all this effusion of energy do to better regulate “Wall St” or to reconcile India and Pakistan (not every war is about us, you know)?
Major Major Major Major
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Oh for fuck’s sake, shut the fuck up!! Clinton is being nice to the Bernie voters. You’re getting her confused with Balloon-Juice, a blog that tried to set a land speed record for most fucks in a comment thread just yesterday.
No, I don’t care how late I am to this thread…
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@My Truth Hurts:
Because ‘Bernie legs good, Hillary legs bad’ is totes not tribalist or authoritarian, nope. Go oink somewhere else, Napoleon.
Bob In Portland
@redshirt: No, the force is strong inside the dome. If Balloon Juicers no longer can see a connection between money and politics then it’s a force more powerful than any rationale anyone could use. You don’t really give a fuck about the bottom ninety percent unless they’re related to you.
You’ve moved along with the Democratic Party away from the working class.
burnspbesq:
Come on, explain your statement. What power in US politics is more powerful than presidents and the whole political process?
John
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: No, Dumbass. Bernie should drop out because he has no chance of winning by the standards he himself claims to support. He cannot win a majority of the pledged delegates. He has repeatedly attacked the concept of superdelegates. His only chance of winning is convincing people who are not institutionally inclined to do so to vote for him. And if they don’t then the process is illegitimate? Fuck Bernie Sanders. At the outset of his campaign, I was excited that someone who believes so strongly in economic equality was pursuing the Presidency. But now it has become obvious that Sanders doesn’t give a shit about the people who will be most hurt by a Trump win. He is the epitome of an idealogue who doesn’t really care about the real-world consequences of his actions. As long as he has maintained his idealogical purity, he’ll claim his hands are clean whatever happens in November.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Remedial reading is a thing. Bernie should acknowledge he’s losing because not enough people voted for him. I sometimes, almost feel for the guy; stupid flocks to him like some kind of disgusting barnyard metaphor.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Thankfully we have you manning the ramparts! Teach us Bob!
mak
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: @Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Has he really? Could you possibly provide a single link to him saying that? Or are you referring to his canned (and canny) stock response, that he “will do everything in [his] power to see that Trump is not elected.”
Bob In Portland
@Major Major Major Major: When I want to be nice to people I say “Shut the fuck up.” It brings the warm and fuzzies out in all hearts.
But burns, would you please explain your comment? A lot of Bernie supporters think that if you get a president who’s against waging wars around the world that he would have a say in the matter. Now you’re saying that Obama doesn’t have a say in the matter?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
You know what, I just wanted to say Thank you, John Cole. I’m glad that you post these Bernie threads. At least you’re not ignoring that there’s a race still going on, albeit a losing one for Sanders, like some of the other outlets out there. And you actually engage your readers who disagree with you.
From One Sober Vet in the Deep South,
Appreciate cha, Big Guy!
feebog
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Saying he knows its a steep climb is not saying its over. Saying it over and graciously endorsing Hillary Clinton is saying its over. If he wants to hang in until after California, fine, Hillary is going to beat him there and in NJ. DC will be the icing on the cake a week later.
chopper
@sigaba:
“when will these bitches realize that bernie’s the better candidate for women?”
Mike J
@Trollhattan:
We’ve had millionaire athletes break and enter to get Top Pot. Well, not really break. The back door that opened onto the apartment building’s stairwell was open, and a Seahawk helped himself to a few. But he apologized and everyone had a good laugh.
Bob In Portland
@chopper: Have you been seeing someone about that homophobia of yours?
Dog Dawg Damn
@John: It’s sad to say, but Ted Cruz had more integrity than Bernie in this regard. When he knew the gig was up, he folded shop. With Bernie, the grift beats on.
Bubblegum Tate
@chopper:
You know what it reminds me of? The scene in Boogie Nights in which Dirk Diggler is trying to get his demo tape from the studio where he recorded it. “Have you heard the tapes? Have you even heard them? We’re guaranteed a record deal. Our stuff is that good!”
dmsilev
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
‘She had it coming. She MADE me hit her.’
Well done; you’ve managed to sink to a new low.
My Truth Hurts
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: English please, I don’t speak jibberish.
D58826
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I realize this may be a small point and that I am just nit picking because I don’t see the wisdom of your favorite candidate but the SEC cannot put any one in jail. There is that pesky innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers thingy.. And that bit about a right to a lawyer, very inconvenient. But I guess Bernie will stand in the Oval Office, hold tightly top his green lantern and recite ‘let it be spoken let it be done’.
Snark aside. The government spend a number of years in anti-trust litigation with Microsoft and came away with little or nothing. The government spent a good bit of money to try the coal baron Blankenship over the deaths of 29 miners. All they got was a misdemeanor conviction. He walked on the felony charge.
I think you can have a reasonable debate over whither the feds should have filed criminal charges against some of the bankers but convictions were not foregone conclusions. And Maybe large fines and consent decrees where the best you could get. I think they call that prosecutoral discretion.
pseudonymous in nc
@My Truth Hurts:
‘Fuck the Democratic Party’ is what gets you gerrymandered GOP state-legislature majorities and lots of batshit or craven GOP governors and a frankly thin Dem farm system for future elections.
And yes, I think Atrios is right that the institutional Dems have fucked lots of things up, especially in mid-terms, because of how candidates retreat from party identity and national issues, probably on advice from overpaid campaign consultants. But some of the more ardent Sanders supporters seem to be taking the old line about not belonging to an organised political party… very literally.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
have you seen someone about your constant confusing “n”s with “b”s?
Cacti
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Once the gravy train dries up, it’s back to helping Jane get liar loans that bankrupt small colleges, or seats on boards that determine which minority communities should be the sites for Vermont’s toxic waste.
Bob In Portland
@Matt McIrvin: If Clinton had flopped spectacularly at the beginning the DNC would have gotten Biden or someone else to run. But the game was obviously fixed for Hillary from the beginning, and the superdelegates has a shitty look to it for a party that’s supposed to be democratic.
Mnemosyne
@Bob In Portland:
Why bother when you guys keep punching yourselves in the face and then looking around to see who did it?
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Josh Marshall actually said, before the Maryland primary, that he was going to vote for Bernie…He’s pro Clinton only because he’s a leftie and she won the nomination of the party he favors fair and square. Basically he’s come to terms with reality. Maybe you should try that.
Cacti
@dmsilev:
But JHB would only have hit her with an open palm, rather than a clenched fist.
Cause he’s one of the good ones.
WarMunchkin
@mak: Well, okay, even I can do that one:
https://twitter.com/Walldo/status/718232463483514881
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Cruz had less than 600 delegates and got smoked at his Waterloo in Indiana.
I guarantee you if he were in sanders shoes he would’ve doubled down on Trump.
Shell
And she did that ….how? Its been the same old tired song from the Bernie camp. Our behavior is justified cause other people were being mean to us. At least, whenever we interpret “being mean.”
petesh
@Mike J: I metaphorically have a few folks in my spam filter. I got caught saying “literally” yesterday, and I’m passing on the embarrassment.
Barbara
@starscream: His campaign is categorically refusing to comment on Jane Sanders’ role in the closure of Burlington College, including allegations that she may have lied in order to secure the loan that the college could not repay. But it’s Hillary Clinton who is supposed to be corrupt. Seriously, what Jane Sanders did is probably what would be called garden variety dishonesty, the kind where, if it all works out (and the loan is repaid) who cares, but when it all goes belly up — bad news, bad publicity, civil and possibly criminal lawsuits. And it will be used around the clock against Sanders to (a) show him and his wife as hypocrites on the issue of integrity and (b) to populate a message of how “both sides” have their issues when it comes to education fraud.
Trollhattan
Donnie and Vlad
Sittin’ in a tree
K-i-s-s-i-n-g
We’re clearly not the only ones who look at the two and see soulmates.
sherparick
@Baud: I expect the line will be “corruption,” “super pac money bought campaign ads,” “she can’t beat Trump so nominate Bernie who could not beat Hilary,” and “true progressives” voted for Bernie, and the Blacks and Brown votes for Hilary don’t count as much (something like 3/5ths).”
I think this has also gotten personal with Bernie for the California Democrats who have made the state a super-majority Blue State with perhaps the best Government in the country right now. Barbara Boxer and the rest of them don’t like being called corrupt. I think they are going to really try to boost the vote Hilary and basically say that a vote for Bernie is a vote for Trump.
Hilary herself would be better off sitting back and trying to be magnanimous as possible to Bernie despite all the provocations. A good place to start would be to give DWS a nice landing spot to leave as DNC chair before the convention.
On the other hand, the “Establishment” Chairwoman of the Nevada State Democratic Party, Roberta Lange, apparently has to work a day job as a restaurant manager. Not exactly a member of the plutocratic elite. Digby, who is no super Hilary fan, throws up her hands in dismay:
“…The woman who received death threats isn’t an elite member of the oligarchy, She’s the day manager at a local restaurant — which was also inundated with threats. The people who make these rules are mostly volunteers doing their civic duty which consists of years and years of boring, tedious meetings in their off hours. It’s open to anyone. All you have to do is join the party. There aren’t even any dues…” http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2016/05/conspiracy-go-go.html
And for Jeff Weaver and Bernie being revealed willful misleading fruitcakes and bullshit artists, see http://www.politifact.com/nevada/statements/2016/may/18/jeff-weaver/allegations-fraud-and-misconduct-nevada-democratic/
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq:
Come on, burns, explain to us what force of Wall Street greed and warmongering is more powerful than our political system. I think we might be getting somewhere here.
aimai
@pseudonymous in nc: Its very complicated to get individual politicians to “take one for the team.” The Republicans can do it because they have a better revolving door between corporations and washington. If someone gets bounced, like Cantor, they pop up again very successfully heading up a lobbying firm. But the kinds of things that get Democrats forced out of congress when their constituents riot over something are not the kinds of things where corporations pick up the slack and give them jobs. If you get thrown out of your seat because Obama, or Bill Clinton, got you to vote for a stimulus, or LGBTQ rights, there is nowhere for you to go. So: people are resistant to taking one for the team and its hard to keep party line loyalty and therefore hard for the population to have brand loyalty. Its a systemic but also structural problem, not so much one of lack of will. We saw it after the passage of the ACA when blue dog dems did get forced out by their own constituents. Until the country as a whole (and more gerrymandered seats) are safely liberal the Democrats can only get so liberal.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@My Truth Hurts: Fuck your own authoritarian ass. Go vote for Trump.
There, you understand that?
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
What is the graceful way to accept death threats and misogyny? What is the graceful way to accept unhinged accusations of corruption and oppression? What is the graceful way to talk politics with someone like you–you argue like a 15 year old that fell asleep in the 60’s, woke up yesterday and doesn’t know anything about the intervening half century but a worn out book of Republican attack ads from the 90’s.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Cacti:
Boxers an asshole who used her power to antagonize the sanders supporters. What is so hard to understand?
pseudonymous in nc
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Then clearly the Bernfeelers need to start running for state-level elected positions and showing up for county and state-level Dem politics and knocking on doors outside of election season.
Except that’s not fucking glamorous or Revolution enough, is it? Has to be the fucking Green Lantern theory of political power.
sigaba
@Bob In Portland:
That’s why Sanders’s whole strategy at this point is flipping superdelegates against the popular vote. Surely this will remediate the shitty look.
I’ve heard the deck was stacked for Hillary but a lot of the specific charges seem to amount to “Hillary’s been a Democrat for longer and has better relationships with people who are critical to the process.”
Mike J
HT Dana Houle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQPv5oUfsbg
aimai
@Barbara: Actually, I’m pretty sure its actual Fraud. If she signed a pledge to the Bank stating that she had 2 million dollars in pledges which she didn’t actually have that is Fraud, not some kind of “all’s fair” thing.
sherparick
@sherparick: If I was Hilary, I would try to meet as many voters and build the strongest possible organization in New Mexico, purple state that leans Blue in Presidential elections and whose primary is on 7 June (a great birthday gift to me would be Hilary landslides in California, New Mexico, and New Jersey.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
How dare she.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Bob In Portland: And I hate to say I told you so, but it was too cute by half to a) clear the field and b) let a Socialist run.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@aimai:
OH NOES NOT A MEME
negative 1
@pseudonymous in nc: Because they don’t actually belong to one. Unless someone here is actively working for one, you don’t either. They are fundraising groups.
I said this in the last thread in a different argument and I’ll say it here — people’s ideological affiliation won’t move with a party. Here in RI there are more Dems than Rs by a WIDE margin. So the primaries are the generals, and you have conservative dems. One won the gubernatorial race here, and here are the results:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926
Dog Dawg Damn
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Fair enough.
Barbara
@WarMunchkin: Glad to hear it. Seriously, I hope he is going to start walking some of this over the top stuff back. It has probably dawned on him that the “symbolic votes” he gets from people simply for the purpose of taking the platform leftward will desert him if they think he is willing to tank Democratic chances in November. As in, California, here we come. What irks me most, however, even more than the Clinton innuendo, which she has been dealing with for her entire adult life, is the “process is rigged” BS. I mean, some of these rules are arcane, but no more so than when Obama ran. And Sanders has done a great job of turning the “rigging” to his favor, particularly in caucus states. Making the process fairer and more open would actually disadvantage him. It’s dishonest for him to say that the rules have been an impediment when they have actually been an asset.
Mike J
@petesh: I literally have the names of only three people included in the javascript hash that is checked in the replaceText() function of my filter.
The literally in my original comment was modifying the “three”. As is, that’s a very small number to ignore for a very big gain. The “literally” was not meant to imply that actual human beings appear inside my computer.
Cacti
@aimai:
Fudging on a job application is garden variety dishonesty.
Making materially false statements on an 8-figure loan application isn’t something most average people will ever be in a position to do.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Hmmm? Official in state Bernie campaign organization at a state convention v. individual Clinton supporter in a bar. Could a non-idiot distinguish the circumstances? Yes, yes he could. Can the Becnel boy? No, no he can’t.
Idiot.
petesh
@Cacti: It’s all Boxer’s fault that Fiorina ran for Prznit this year and briefly for Prznit of Vice.
Iowa Old Lady
@jsrtheta: The Chicago Eight, as I recall. Abbie Hoffman et al. I remember pictures of Bobby Seal, tied to a chair with tape over his mouth when they brought him to trial for what happened at that convention.
At the time, someone I went to grade school with had died in the war and one of my college friends came home in a wheelchair. The demonstrators weren’t pissed off about the finer points of politicking.
negative 1
@pseudonymous in nc: Which they’re going to get the money to fund by…
Organizations like you are talking about cost lots of money. There are only 2 real ways to get that money, at the moment — from very rich people (including self funding) or through one of the two existing political parties. Neither is available to Bernie’s supporters. This is why all elections are winner take all and why any gains that are made among millenials showing up or voting D will be up for grabs in the midterms.
pseudonymous in nc
@aimai:
Yeah, I mostly agree with this. The other structural problem is the existence of industries that dominate particular states and thus weigh heavy on its politicians: you see it with King Coal in WV, but also with finance in DE and NY, and even things like copyright law in CA.
There’s a way to handle that without a campaign that runs away from everything the party stands for on a broad national level. Adept politicians manage that.
? Martin
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
So you’ve transitioned from the Superdelegates to being corruptive to them being the savior to democracy by being level-headed enough to override the will of the people.
And you wonder why people mock you.
mak
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Can you please cite an instance where Bernie has actually said that he would support Clinton, or even “the nominee,” rather than stating that he would “do everything in his power” to stop Trump? The two statements are not the same.
Citizen_X
@My Truth Hurts:
Not when you’re down by 3 million votes they ain’t.
Oh, and ignoring that? That bullshit is authoritarian.
aimai
The continued weeping and handwringing by Sanders supporters over mean looks, sneers, or cruel nicknames like “berniebro” or “fan” reminds me of nothing so much as the old line “Men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them.” These guys are rendered absolutely blind with rage at the fact that every one is respecting their candidate. (everyone should read the link upthread to the rolling stone interview with the guys who doxxed and harrassed Roberta Lange). The overwhelming vanity of the supporters of a vanity candidate just boggles my mind, and yet its so very familiar. Everything is so hystrionic, so world historic, so very very important, all about feelings and all about other people’s opinions. I have two teenage daughters and I’ve never seen this amount of drama over anything, not even a busted favorite doll or a lost blankie. It is the rage of what Fred Clark likes to call the “persecuted hegemon” –the person who thinks he/she is in the majority (we are the future!) but who also thinks they are being persecuted by an outrageous minority. Its like some kind of rage and disappointment compounded with insecurity and narcissism.
Bob In Portland
@sigaba: I doubt that Sanders can actually win the nomination. In fact, if Clinton dropped dead of a heart attack the day before the convention opened the conservaDems would have someone else to fill her shoes.
Even if Clinton is kinda sorta nice to the 45% of the party and gives them a plank or two on the party platform it only means as much as her campaign promises, which is nothing. You know, like Obama and the Employees Free Choice Act.
No, the race has been over, and it wasn’t because of the market of free ideas. But don’t you want to see people being beaten in the streets of Philadelphia? It will be like Balloon Juice but in real life.
Barbara
@aimai: aimai, what I mean is, if the college had repaid the loan, the bank would have experienced no damages and would be unlikely to pursue the matter. It might refuse to lend money in the future, or demand greater documentation, but it wouldn’t waste its time hiring lawyers to file a lawsuit. There are some kinds of fraud where you don’t get that outcome.
scav
@sigaba:
Nothing like the howls of old boys when the “old boy” network suddenly doesn’t bank error in your favor.
Also rather enjoying the howls of “Dems have never done anything for working class Americans!” because it does rather imply that working class americans are never homosexual, especially those desiring the security of legal relationships, women, hispanic, black, transgendered, working in minimum wage jogs, bankrupt car plants, or heaven forfend! uninsured. Playing with Venn Diagrams left as an exercise.
SiubhanDuinne
@Dog Dawg Damn:
You could also sing it to “Do, Re, Mi” from The Sound of Music.
petesh
@Mike J: I’m literally kidding around but exactly would have been a more appropriate modifier. Like most people, I am both sick of and infected by the literally virus.
Mnemosyne
@My Truth Hurts:
Um, how do you plan to hold elections and run a representative government without teams and leaders? Helpful hint: you can’t run a country of 320 million people by committee. We figured that out back in 1789, FFS.
Captain C
@aimai: It sounds like the Trump/Fife Symington way of doing business.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
South Carolina.
Trollhattan
@Iowa Old Lady:
Right. The meaningful parallels between 1968 and 2016 are…nada.
Perhaps Donnie and Bernie can suggest reinstating the draft to rile up the base in a burst of patriotic fervor.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@les:
What is the graceful way to talk politics with someone like you–you argue like a 15 year old that fell asleep in the 60’s, woke up yesterday and doesn’t know anything about the intervening half century.
NCSteve
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Bernie said this two days ago:
The implication–necessary and unavoidable–that all who don’t support Bernie Sanders are unwilling to take on “Wall Street, corporate greed” and the fossil fuel industry (which they are no doubt unaware is destroying the planet) and are for all those other terrible things was the last goddamn straw for me and many others.
Bernie isn’t losing because of a grand conspiracy against him. He’s losing because of self-righteous, sanctimonious, insulting shit like this, this right here. If you believe it too, fuck you too. If you don’t, then why the fuck are you even bothering to defend him?
pseudonymous in nc
@negative 1:
[citation needed]
The martyrdom complex is weird here: “the institutional party is corrupt, and there is nothing we can do to change it, therefore we must destroy the institutional party.” If Bernie’s supporters showed up in the off-season, they’d be the institutional party.
D58826
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: To repeat the point that has been made over and over by any number of people on this thread. No one is asking Bernie to drop out. As has also been point out over and over Hillary did not drop out in 2008. But since even you are saying that it is almost impossible for him to win the nomination then what people are saying is he can run out the string as a team player or he can run out the string and damage to Hillary and the party be d***.
To put words in his mouth he can push his agenda on single payer by saying something like ‘I will work for single payer but I realize that the time might not be right to get it done, so I will, like Hillary, work to improve Obamacare on an incremental basis. We can’t let the perfect stand in the way of the good. It’s wrong that 100% of the public still doesn’t have access to affordable medical care. But Obamacare has brought the number of uninsured to under 10% for the first time in our history. If it wasn’t for the reactionaries on the Supreme Court and red state governors the medicaid expansion would have reduced that number even more. I fought for single payer in 2009 but the votes were not there so I voted for the next best thing that we could pass. Politics is the art of the possible and the possible in 2009 was Obamacare. But as President I will continue to argue the merits of single payer and if I can convince enough folks we will get it done’.
That would be pushing his message in a positive way, bolstering Hillary’s approach as the nominee, showing solidarity with a popular democratic president, make it easy to endorse her in July AND drive home the point that the problem is the GOP not the DNC/DWS and the democratic party.
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
It’s not nice to talk about Bernie that way, but after the NYDN interview, if the shoe fits…
Oh wait, you were projecting.
Mnemosyne
@petesh:
Lit-erally!
cleek
@pseudonymous in nc:
and if they’d won more primaries they’d be all set to run it in November.
oh well.
Jack the Second
@NR:
I thought we were supposed to pick the best candidate in the primary, damn their general election chances?
sherparick
@feebog: I have no problem with staying in to the last primary and pushing his issues, the issues he was raising last fall and winter about student loans, single payer, and expanding Social Security. I have a problem with him and his cohorts calling the process “corrupt” and “unfair” when the rules are known and he has done quite well by them (see his success in the caucus states as opposed to the primary states). I have problems with him and his cohorts saying they want to “hurt” the woman who is leading votegetter in the Democratic primaries and caucuses. I have a problem with him and his cohorts indicating Black and Hispanic votes for Hilary in southern and border states are not worth the same as white votes for Bernie in the northern tier states.
Bernie’s not very good week, just got worse. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/was-jane-sanders-responsible-for-the-closure-of-a-small-vermont-college/
? Martin
@Barbara:
They borrowed 5x their entire annual tuition revenue. To put that in perspective, that would be like USC taking out a $2.5B loan. There was no way they could cover that loan without a massive enrollment expansion, which there was no market evidence would happen (I’ve seen the trends for small private universities, and they were harrowing in 2010).
IMO, this was a Donald Tump (or McCain picking VP) style bet. They were facing an existential threat, they went all-in, rolling the dice that it would pay off, and if it didn’t all it would serve to do is speed up the inevitable, with the lender taking the bath. I can appreciate the spot they were in, but the fact that they passed the risk onto another party without disclosure puts this over a line for me. If my understanding of this is correct, these are the kinds of situations that we want to see people put in jail for.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
And when Bernie loses California, you’re going to screech about “fraud!” without ever understanding why you lost. This despite the fact that several of us have explained to you that insulting the popular senator of a state where you want Democrats to vote for your candidate is a Bad Idea.
No wonder you guys are losing.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@aimai:
it boggles the mind, and yet it is happening. What to do with all those dam kids on my lawn! Why don’t they give up on their principles and compromise!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@aimai:
The whole Sanders phenomenon has been one giant hand waving away of anything that demonstrates Bernie’s failings and total dismissiveness of uncomfortable reality. It’s like a mass psychosis. Watching a couple of my older female friends turn into a Bernfeeler over the course of a couple of months was like watching those pod people who fell asleep in Invasion of the Body Snatchers and woke up an alien. The thing I can’t wrap my mind around, is what’s so appealing about him? He’s a grumpy, scoldy disagreeable old fart with no charisma and no accomplishments at all, with that horrible accent. I can’t even.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Are you admitting that Bernie’s folks would shoot up an office? Is there a shred of evidence that “a Democratic Candidates office” (sic) was shot up by anyone associated with Clinton? You are an idiot, you don’t have even a nodding acquaintance with logic, you’re wrong on the facts, wrong on the process…oh, here.
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq:
I have asked burnspbesq repeatedly to explain his statement, which I agree with, but I want him to define what he means. But since burnspbesq seems to be laying low I’ll throw this out to the rest of the villagers:
What force, what power in American politics is stronger than the president and our political system? If there is nothing that can be done about stopping our war machine, who is responsible for it?
Burnspbesq unintentionally stated my worldview pretty well. Do the rest of the villagers embrace it, that politics can’t stop wars and greed?
aimai
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: IF the Sanders voters don’t turn out to vote for Clinton, en masse, they aren’t the “activist base” they are merely non voters, like the rest of the schlub non voters in this country, and their place and the chits they would like to cash will be taken and cashed by the people who do show up. That’s obvious.
negative 1
@aimai: That’s not true even a little bit. Lobbying firms and law firms hoover up plenty of them, as do professional fundraisers etc. Just the other day I got a call from one of our former State Reps who is now working for United Way
danielx
Fucking politics. How does it work?
chopper
@Cacti:
it’s what she deserves for supporting a fellow democrat.
Chyron HR
Oh, shit, I think JoHo has found out about the secret DNC rule that if a Sanders supporter posts the same thing 500 times in a single comment thread on Balloon Juice, Bernie automatically wins all the delegates.
I mean, the only other option is that he’s just a very sad person, and that couldn’t possibly be the case.
Gelfling 545
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: the Times is pro Clinton? You must read a different edition from the one I get.
Gravenstone
@different-church-lady: I suspect the name and persona are new, but the fingers on the keyboard are likely quite old and jaded.
singfoom
@Bob In Portland: Please Bob, hold forth at length on your plans to remove war and greed from human nature. We’re all salivating expectantly at the pearls of wisdom you are going to bestow on us. Share your light!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
1) Boxers still an Establishment Asshole.
2) You are the one whining about my non existent whining and gnashing of teeth cuz FRAUD! What the DNC did was legal. Just shady as shit and certainly not good optics for Independents
3) If Bernie loses Cali, then that sucks for sanders supporters.
Bob In Portland
@redshirt: Warriors game. That was the filter last night.
Keith P.
Not linking to Breitbart, but apparently, O’Keefe tried to sting George Soros, but when he left a voice mail with Soros’ org, he forgot to hang up and left talk about making more fake calls on the voice mail. Classic MacGruber…
negative 1
@pseudonymous in nc: You’re challenging that political party fundraising or individual wealthy donors are the source of political funding? Where else would your average candidate get money?
My job has donated our entire PAC budget to state legislators, and we know the other PACs that are donating. We do because they are Democrats (and the kind of Democrats we like). Where else would they get the money?
? Martin
@NR:
Your argument would work better if the Sanders camp wasn’t working quite so hard to ensure that Hillary was losing to Trump.
The problem here is that the Sanders camp honestly doesn’t give a shit. If Sanders can’t be president than literally anyone is fine with them – Clinton or Trump. That is not how party loyalty gets expressed. That is now how you advance liberal causes. That’s how you wind up with a 2000 scenario where Democrats go back to liberal activists and tell them to fuck off forever for handing us President Bush.
Grow up.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Chyron HR:
Somebody’s gotta provide the entertainment around here ;)
gwangung
Huh. Nate Silver notes that a great deal of the difference tween Sanders and Clinton favorability ratings vis a vis may come from the fact that Clinton supporters would unfailingly back Sanders if Clinton was the nominee, but Sanders supporters would be undecided or decline to vote.
Hm.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Did you go to the game? Cool if so. They are a fantastic team.
? Martin
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Bullshit. You lost Nevada and chose to riot when you wouldn’t be granted the majority of delegates. Nobody believes you will go gracefully into the night based on what happened with Boxer.
gwangung
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: So, basically, you have nothing. Nothing but namecalling.
Nashville_fan
I think it all boils down to the fact that at the end of the day, the real Bernie Sanders is the guy who reads a headline in the media and then runs out to declare that Hillary Clinton is “unqualified” to be president . . . because of course she said that about him first (allegedly).
That instinct to be “right” even when you are wrong is the kind of thing that can get you into a lot of wars even though you claim not to believe in that type of thing . . . I mean if Senator Sander can’t take a little intra-party ribbing . . . what is he gonna say to the folks who actually don’t give a flying $#!+? “Millionaires” and “billionaires” will wipe the floor with him domestically and internationally . . . sad but true.
You can’t fight fire with “angry words” and “self-righteous indignation” . . . Bernie and friends are just a little too eager to take the bait in my humble opinion . . . thin skinned . . . almost Trumpishly so . . .
D58826
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
If anybody’s office is shot up or broken into it is a crime. Call 911 and report it. Report it to his secret service detail, there might be a federal crime involved since it involves the political process. Don’t imply that the Clinton team was somehow behind it. What he wasn’t implying that, then why include it in a sort-of- non apology about the events in NV.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
So you’re actually admitting you’re cool with racism and misogyny? St. Bernie denied that, ya know, once he figured out it pissed voters off.
nastybrutishntall
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Here’s a list of the threats from that oligarchic tool of oppression, the Daily Kos, collected against Roberta Lange. “Someone will hurt you”… with votes? You lose. Go back to curating your own reality.
petesh
Come. gather round people, and I’ll tell you a tale:
I wanted to support Bernie. I did, incidentally, support Brown against Bill Clinton back in the day, I’ve never been a big Clinton fan. I accepted a bumpersticker but then I held off putting it on my car, initially when the BLM fracas happened and I thought Bernie’s response was tone-deaf at best; then I saw he relied on one of the few prominent African-Americans who hates Obama for his outreach, and I went uh-oh.
I nearly did put the sticker on a few weeks later, though, and in fact I bought a T-shirt at a Dolores Huerta event; then some of his supporters started attacking Dolores, so I held off the bumpersticker and moved the T-shirt to sleep-shirt status. Boy, am I glad I did. Because the last month or so has been a real revelation, not about the young supporters (that’s, brush-off-the-shoulder stuff) but about the senior campaign staff, some of whom are getting rich off those $27 donations, and about Bernie himself, who increasingly sounds like an asshole, and on many issues an ignorant asshole.
I absolutely do not want Bernie for President; about the only circumstance in which I might vote for him would be a one-on-one matchup with Trump. I live in California, I shall vote for Clinton, and I hope everyone else does too. I wish there was a better choice, but there isn’t.
sherparick
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Barbara Boxer has done ten times more for progressive causes these last 40 years then Bernie has. Even now, every day, she goes head to head McConnell and Inhofe to defend the EPA’s Greenhouse Gas rules and 100 years of conservation and environmental legislation from an idiot (Inhofe) who believes God firehosed oil into the Earth 6,000 years ago. That you have gone off on her makes me think you need to sit back and go to your corner for a time out.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@? Martin:
This is a contest. Clinton can handle I’m sure after 25 years in the trenches.
Sanders has been caucusing with the Democrats his entire career. Hes a New Deal Democratic Socialist who was unknown this time last year, but pulled off an amazing run against TPTB. And FFS, the Supreme Court gave the Presidency to Bush cuz ACTIVIST COURTS. Gore won. Nader has nothing to do with this.
Bob In Portland
@singfoom: So you say it’s human nature responsible for the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Ukraine? Had nothing to do with anyone somewhere in the government sending our troops over there?
And greed is the way of the world?
Okay. I understand your support of Hillary now. You don’t think that any wars have any actual people deciding to go to war. It’s just human nature. We kill and steal from each other. It’s human nature. That’s so good that Clinton could use that for a campaign slogan.
So we’re set to automatic. Great. I’ll get back to working on the fallout shelter. But is that what burns meant?
Darkrose
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Fuck you. That “Corporate DNC Official” has been a reliable liberal voice in the Senate for over 20 years. She’s actually done shit other than carp at people from the back benches. Why don’t you go away and do some fucking research?
Matt
@Bob In Portland: Loving the demands from Bern-outs that we’re supposed to hug them as they hit us.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@sherparick:
Why would I disagree with you on this? That’s awesome that she’s fought so hard for the environment.
And why are you discriminating against me based on age? Smacks of Ageism don’tcha know!
EZSmirkzz
On the bright side John those people read your blog!
Look, the fact of the matter is that the Clinton campaign never rolled up the sidewalks because Obama was going to win the nomination anyway, so the Clinton camp whining about attacks that haven’t occurred yet is a little bit of chicken belittling the sky.
Living in the moment is good life advice, but doesn’t work too well with politics. No one is going to remember any of this at the convention, and no one is going to remember the convention in October. I am of the mind that there isn’t any point in getting too engaged until August, and only getting pointed in mid to late September.
Sorry to disagree with you, and Josh and the “liberal media,” here, but there isn’t any point in getting your knickers in a knot. Yet another tempest in a teapot that makes good “Democrats Fear Schism” copy. One more big tent and we’ll have a real circus.
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: I recall people did get upset about it at the time. I’d put money that everybody here was like “don’t do that!” And I’m sure the Sanders campaign did call the police.
What’s that got to do with the price of eggs? God, fuck Sanders and his nonpology, and to everybody complaining about how Hillary supporters are being mean to dead-enders, 1) nobody reads this blog and 2) go skull-fuck a kitten.
nastybrutishntall
@gwangung: “You see? Clinton can’t win, because we won’t vote for her! That’s why Bernie is a better candidate against Republicans! Because we’ll sabotage the winning Democrat just to be douchebags!”
D58826
@Darkrose: now that B-I-P has landed maybe we should give Jonathan Holland Becnel a rest :-)
Trollhattan
@les:
Or…what was that thing…climate change?
Poopyman
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Doing the latter does not require the former, but I’m not so old that I’ve forgotten the tendency towards binary thinking as a yoot.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You mean the working class voters who’ve been voting Republican since the passage of the Civil Rights Act? The ones lining up behind Trump? Well, you’d be wrong as usual; many of them have health insurance, who couldn’t get it previously. Some of them can get married now, who couldn’t previously. Many of them got unemployment benefits after the crash, thanks to Democrats. I could go on, but have I mentioned you’re an idiot?
Do you know that the DNC is not a legislative or executive body? Have I mentioned that you’re an idiot?
singfoom
@Bob In Portland: Bob, since you’re very literal, I’ll take this one slowly for you.
You asked this question:
My answer to you was this:
Now you ask this:
No, people are responsible for those decisions, but you asked whether politics could stop war and greed, and I answered that question.
tweedstereo
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: seriously – he needs to come up for air…
sherparick
@? Martin: To me it is not a question of “party loyalty.” It is a question of what will happen to the country, what will happen to minorities in this country, and what will happen to the world if a man who openly bigoted and is promising to commit war crimes is elected to the Presidency. I could understand it if one wanted to be indifferent between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole in 1996 or even Bush and Dukakis in 1988 (I still think you kind of stupid, but not a menance.) But to be indifferent to an election between Trump and H. Clinton, that is madness and treason. It is like being indifferent between Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Why is the DNC supposed to give a shit about what independents think about the Democratic primary? It’s not the business of independents, by definition. If they wanted to be included in the Democratic primary, they should have become Democrats.
Next you’ll be whining that you didn’t get to be the lead-off batter in the World Series because MLB had some stupid “rule” about how you had to be part of a “team” in order to play.
? Martin
@Bob In Portland:
Nothing can stop wars and greed. They are human nature and the US is only 4% of the human population. We don’t get a veto over the other 96%. If someone wants to start a war with us, the President can’t just step up and say ‘no, we didn’t vote for that’. Other countries can run their economies as they see fit, sometimes at the expense of the US. We can’t just declare, ‘no, that must stop’. I mean, we can. We can have our economy shrink from 16% of GDP to 4% of GDP to match our population and we all get 4x poorer and look like the populist paradise of Venezuela.
Democrats don’t understand that the labor that they fight so hard for inevitably comes at the economic expense of poorer people elsewhere. That imbalance is something that was created and must be maintained, and it is maintained largely from our greed and our wars (or willingness to go to war). We can yell and scream about the GOP hard-on for american exceptionalism, but the fight for 15 is just as exceptional.
Kay (who I love, don’t get me wrong) will in the span of a single sentence advocate for wages for US manufacturing workers and advocate to take wages from non-US workers doing the same job by putting up trade barriers. That’s greed. It’s a different level of greed, but it’s greed. And how do we get and enforce those trade barriers? Largely with a fleet of aircraft carriers willing to bomb those that our allies oppose.
Democrats are every bit as in love with American hegemony, but they don’t like to admit it, but they demand with yelling and screaming and floor fights and primaries and rallies and marches and protests all the time. Every Berner here benefits from this system while both demanding it not exist and that the benefits from this arrangement flow even faster. You are children that demand presents but cry when daddy goes to work.
Gravenstone
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You are aware that IBD is a wingnut site (with a side helping of conspiracy theory), right?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@les:
Misogyny and racism have their roots in the fight against working class people. The whole Patriarchal society thing and Benevolent European Civ thing are the tools of rich people to divide and conquer the lower class.
Fuck Misogynists and Racists.
But ya know go ahead and put words in my mouth.
Ezsmirkzz
Just as a mind exercise, what are you going to do if Bernie delivers the ” crushing blow” and Hillary goes down in flames? Vote for Trump?
tweedstereo
@starscream: he should have just pointed to her flip on the bankruptcy bill.
MCA1
@gwangung: Wait, there’s a river in Egypt called “Juvenile Projection?” Weird name.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@? Martin:
And yet the U.S. Accounts for how many dirty little wars now? This attitude that we can’t do anything about it puts billions of dollars into the hands of Defense Contractors.
Bob In Portland
@? Martin:
Close. The Sanders supporters don’t see much difference between the eventual policies of a Trump or a Clinton versus the policies of a socialist like Sanders.
Now you can blame Sanders supporters for not holding Clinton as dearly in their hearts as you do or you can try to understand them. The consensus here that any campaign donations that don’t result in indictments are okay. The consensus says that the three billion that passed to the Clintons from their megawealthy supporters doesn’t affect her judgement. We even have one of you who claims that no matter who the president is we’re gonna have greedheads on Wall Street and war around the world.
And for some reason, telling Sanders supporters to fuck off doesn’t seem to be convincing any Bernie supporters because (fill in derogatory phrases about the intelligence and character of Sanders supporters).
Well, let’s talk about it. Tell us how three billion wouldn’t affect you. Or better, what affects the 1% to give three billion to the Clintons? Because, after all, Clinton has always been a Republican in her heart.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Sanders calls them “distractions”. Why are so many “millionaires and billionaires” racist sexist xenophobic fucktards, and why do so many poor whites vote for their tax cuts?
Miss Bianca
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
“Bitch had it coming.” That an example of your open-palm kiss, Stulte? And you’re wondering why your candidate is having a hard time getting a second date around here?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Gravenstone:
I’m sorry I didn’t mean IBD I meant International Business Times.
chopper
@nastybrutishntall:
now fit that on a bumper sticker and you’re golden.
Barbara
@? Martin: I have trouble understanding the “go big or go home strategy” when it pertains to not for profit enterprises that don’t make money on volume. Having said that, the five times the tuition analogy is somewhat misleading, just because it is in the realm of reality to raise money in the low millions from interested wealthy donors. It’s proportionately a lot for Burlington College, but it could have happened. The problem for Sanders is that the loan was supposed to be conditioned on her having already secured the funds.
Trollhattan
@Bob In Portland:
Whoa, bring in the short bus for the cool kids–it’s crayon-and-pudding day.
? Martin
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I’m sure she can too, but this is a party nominating process. Tearing down the party is completely opposite of the point of the exercise. Your contempt and the Sanders camp’s contempt for the party is palpable. If Sanders wanted to have that fight then he should have run as an independent, with no money, no debates, and no exposure.
And I say that as a not-registered Democrat. I do not have any express loyalty to this party, but if you are objecting to how the party is treating you, you might for a moment try to consider what the party is trying to achieve in the grand scheme and consider whether you are working toward that goal or not.
Clue: you aren’t.
rikyrah
State passes anti-abortion bill described as ‘insane’
05/19/16 03:41 PM
By Steve Benen
Republican policymakers in Oklahoma are aware of the fact that they cannot simply ban all abortions. The Supreme Court has already considered flat prohibitions and deemed them unconstitutional.
The article that there’s one physician in the state Senate, Republican Ervin Yen, who characterized the legislation as an “insane” measure that would invariably face a court challenge.
Poopyman
I can see it from here! Only about a hundred to go, and at this pace we’ll be there well before 5:00 EDT.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Miss Bianca:
Look, I honestly don’t understand you. That’s what Democracy In Action looks like, protesting your elected officials who do asshole things. It’s nothing akin to domestic violence.
pseudonymous in nc
@negative 1:
Does not compute. The Sanders campaign has very effectively redistributed a giant pot of $27 donations into the pockets of campaign consultants and network affiliates. If you don’t think that sort of money is capable of realigning the institutional party as long as people actually show up in the off-season then I can’t help you.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Amazin’. “the bitch made me do it!” Because obviously Sanders’ supporters can only respond to being “antagonized” by violence. Where “antagonized” means hearing “you lost because you didn’t follow the rules.”
If Sanders had integrity he’d quit because his minions are too embarrassing.
? Martin
@sherparick:
I agree. But if they want to know why the party is pushing back, it’s because they are now blatantly attacking the integrity of the party. You cannot unify the party after convincing a sizable fraction of the party that the party is corrupt.
Trollhattan
@MCA1:
Translates inelegantly, but the hieroglyphs are epic.
singfoom
@rikyrah: I heard about that bill in NPR. I think Oklahoma is trolling SCOTUS. They gotta know it won’t stand. I think it’s a fundraising ploy or something. They truly are nuts.
Linnaeus
@? Martin:
Workers wanting a decent life in America is greed?
chopper
@les:
but apart from saving the economy from ruin, saving the auto industry, getting health insurance for tens of millions and improving the quality of insurance for everyone else, better overtime pay, fair pay laws, expanding unemployment, and keeping the gop’s greasy paws off of every good thing workers have going, what has the Democratic Party done for the working class recently?
Tripod
@Matt McIrvin:
There’s no strategy at play. Just an old man yelling at the clouds.
chopper
@chopper:
and Clinton wants universal free pre-K? how the fuck does that help working class families who need help with child care coverage, huh? I ask you.
Cacti
I’d like to say that the nadir of the Sanders campaign was the day when he:
1. Walked away when asked about the thuggery of his Nevada delegates and bros around the country
2. Later issued a statement that “I don’t condone violence, BUT…”
But then I think, he still has 3 weeks left to stoop lower still.
? Martin
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I didn’t say that. I said you can’t stop wars. I didn’t say you can’t discriminate on wars. There are certainly wars we could have and should have avoided. But there are wars we can’t avoid.
I’m also saying that there are wars that Democrats want to wage but won’t admit to. Democrats do not want a fair trade landscape – they want one that favors the US. And they demand that this unfair trade landscape be protected, seemingly not realizing that the only way that happens is through the projection of the threat of force.
Bob In Portland
@? Martin: Did Saddam want to start a war with us? Did Khadafy want to start a war with us? You see, there seems to be a gap here. Can regime changes around the world by the CIA be explained by human nature? How about arms sales to Dubai that end up in the hands of ISIS? Human nature too? There was nothing to be done. They wanted weapons and we sold them weapons because it’s our human nature, and there’s nothing to be done about it.
You know, rape is part of the great spectrum of human nature. Ready to surrender to that human nature too?
And as far as capitalism goes, it’s always going to fuck over others, just be grateful that you’re not on the bottom of the barrel. That’s sort of how the right-wing sells capitalism to poor whites. At least you’re not on the bottom. See? Blacks and Latinos and gays.
So wars and capitalism dovetail nicely, so capitalism can screw over poor people all around the world, which makes it better for the poor of America.
Remarkable. Thanks for being so truthful, Martin.
Barbara
@pseudonymous in nc: The notion that “anyone” can fund a campaign with a large volume of small donations is unrealistic. Sanders is a sitting senator who raised a ton of money the old fashioned way for most of his career (and he raised a lot for the state he serves). He used that money to jump start his presidential fund raising, and the Democratic Party gave him a big platform and a lot of voter files to take it much further. I don’t like big money donors picking candidates either, but you can’t just throw out sui generis examples of small dollar fund raising and piously pronounce the feasibility of an end to big money politics.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@? Martin:
Exactly! It’s a party nominating process, the people get no say whatsoever. Bernie should just drop out and let Clinton win cuz DESTINY.
When party members attack Bernie for some manipulated media coverage of some Nevada state Dems, then what do u expect and sanders and his supporters to do?
Trump Trump Trump this has nothing to do with Trump. This has everything to do with whether Sanders or Clinton is the better nominee. Sanders has said time and again the dem nominee is 100X better than Trump.
chopper
@les:
to be fair, boxer deliberately and maliciously antagonized sanders supporters by supporting the democrat. that’s inexcusable.
Major Major Major Major
@Linnaeus: Yes, insofar as the absence of greed is “give all your belongings to the poor and follow Jesus.” It’s just a matter of scale.
Bob In Portland
@? Martin:
Which wars over, say, the last century couldn’t we have avoided?
Iowa Old Lady
Holy shit.
gwangung
@? Martin:
I think the establishment understands the argument, “I have a better way to win elections.” They may not agree, but it’s a fair argument to have—the insurgents may be right.
But once you get into, “The party is corrupt, it must come down,” it becomes existential. The establishment HAS to fight back and and must use all power to do so (not the least of which being that this still leaves a Republican establishment existing, able to enforce its will without competition).
Cacti
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Menacing elected officials with threats of death and violence against themselves and their family members is what bolshevism in action or fascism in action looks like. It sure as hell ain’t what democracy in action looks like.
aimai
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Excusing violence and harrassment of women as something they had coming–I wonder what Miss Bianca could possibly be getting at? Oh, and by the way, the constitutional reference is to “peaceable” assembly and “petition” not howls of “bitch” and chair throwing.
Emily68
@Cacti: I hadn’t even heard the Burlington College story. It sounds kind of like what Nora did in “A Doll’s House.” If Jane Sanders can show that she forged the signature so she could take Burlington College to Italy so it wouldn’t die, then we’d all be sympathetic, but she’d still have big problems.
Mnemosyne
@Bob In Portland:
Why am I not surprised that the straight white guy who never has to worry about getting an abortion, being able to get married, or being allowed to vote is the one saying this?
Yes, as long as you don’t care about equal rights — including worker protections, access to healthcare, and consumer rights — there’s no difference between Trump and Hillary. Good one.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@? Martin:
I mos def agree with you on this. I think the landscapes changing significantly regarding Trade deals and Militarism in both the democratic and republican parties.
Mnemosyne
@Bob In Portland:
World War 2. Or were we supposed to ignore that we were attacked?
? Martin
@Linnaeus:
Why aren’t workers in every other country deserving of the same thing? Why are American workers more deserving than workers in Mexico or China? They’re doing the same job, don’t they deserve to have a decent life? But Democrats demand that American workers be protected at the expense of workers elsewhere. Yes, that’s greed. That we have grown accustomed to this lifestyle is not a defense for demanding more, any more than we allow the investor class use the same argument against the working class.
Somehow whenever we hit a national border, suddenly the moral arguments change completely. You then have an imbalance between the rules as they should apply to us and as they should apply to everyone else, and the cost of protecting that moral membrane is our ability to stop others from breaching it.
aimai
@gwangung: I think this is backwards. Once the argument has been made by the insurgents that the party is corrupt–there is no place for the insurgents to go but out the door. Which leaves the field open for Trump. There is zero evidence that “the establishment” has done anything other than help Sanders run in a race he was, in fact, ill prepared to run. They have never brought the ban hammer down on him and Hillary herself has treated him with kid gloves. The establishment isn’t beating Bernie, he’s losing to the establishment. And they aren’t going to do anything to hurt him or his followers at all–they are going to hang on for dear life right to the end of this bumpy road because they fear his splitter tendencies and his vicious attempts to destroy what he couldn’t take over.
Chyron HR
@aimai:
1) They have a video of the chair when it was not being thrown!
2) Even if it was hypothetically thrown, there are billions of un-thrown chairs around the world, so statistically speaking the chair throwing didn’t even happen!
3) Also the bitch had it coming.
singfoom
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Do you think leaving threatening voicemails is part of petitioning for redress of grievances?
Is that part of peaceable assembly?
Cause I’ve been involved in protest and I remember marching in the streets and shouting but I never called anyone and personally threatened them…
Maybe your definition of democracy in action is different.
Betty Cracker
@Ezsmirkzz: Of course not. We’re Democrats; we’ll vote for the Democratic nominee.
Miss Bianca
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Pray enlighten me. What “asshole thing” was Barbara Boxer doing that justified being called “bitch” and “cunt” by your candidate’s oh-so-very-put-upon followers? be specific and show your work, Stulte.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
My god you are an idiot.
Then what are you shilling for Bernie for? The new deal wasn’t in the 60’s. The new deal was flawed at passage, incremental and is still being improved. By modern Democrats. The current Democratic president you revile has presided over the biggest expansion of the social safety net since the New Deal; Clinton promises to keep it up. And you hate her. Your idiocy is exceeded only by your ignorance.
Funny cuz with all name calling against me, I’d call most the commenters on here 15 year olds.
His “apology” sucked goat balls, but you’ve been told that. Probably missed it; you’re an idiot, after all. Nobody says he has to drop out, but you can’t understand that, because…well, you know.
You poor scared little manly majority rule the world progressives. You make “arguments” (interesting word for factually inaccurate 25 year old Republican attacks, long disproved and without foundation) that are offensive bullshit because you think that will encourage Clinton to do what you want. Fucking idiot.
Jesus h. christ. The activist left is not her base. The activist left, if that’s who you are, is a whiny ass titty baby scared that he can’t get what he wants without magic revolution Bernie, encouraging her actual base to leave the party. Idiot.
You don’t actually know what misogynist means do you. Christ what an idiot.
Engage us. You will find that most of us get along just fine without all the rampant mudslinging.
Barbara
@Linnaeus: I hate it when people pit workers in the U.S. against workers in the developing world. As if the only options are to rob Peter to pay Paul. On the other hand, it’s true that in certain industries, it is really hard to see how labor in the U.S. could hope to maintain the kind of income that they used to even if jobs did return. It’s not just that Americans want lower prices, but other countries no longer need to import from us for a lot of different products, and the lower the skill required to make that product, the more likely that outcome would be. Of course we should focus on jobs, but we need much more focus on safety net and infrastructure spending. I made more money waiting tables than I did at the low level manufacturing job I worked at. Both kinds of workers deserve to have a minimal level of dignity for the work they do.
EZSmirkzz
@Betty Cracker: “Same as it ever was…”, ain’t it?
On a personal note have I written something to piss you off? Old coots want to know!
singfoom
@? Martin:
I think the expectation that nation states are moral in any sense is pretty naive. Sure, the moral argument for everyone living a good comfortable life free from hunger and want is the same the world over, but a nation state by its very nature is going to care more about its citizens than non citizens in other nation states.
Spacecakes
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:@Jonathan Holland Becnel: @Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Quick, without using the google or mentioning Hillary Clinton, define the word ‘neoliberal’
tweedstereo
@? Martin:
Uhhh…some degrees of separation here
Bob In Portland
@? Martin:
Yes. But this is the party where three billion can cross hands and everyone remains pure, there are no demands or expectations. As great as that sounds, and I hope I win the lottery too, my time on earth suggests otherwise. Banks are freed from the chains of regulation and the guy who did it with the Republicans is showered with money. But there’s no connection. Was there a connection for the Republicans who voted to end Glass-Steagall and the money they got? Apparently not, in this fantasy world.
Besides greed and war are part of our human nature.
In my definition of integrity if you accept money from people who have had or will have business within your political purview, you look pretty crooked to me. Sorry, I must have been mistaken.
WarMunchkin
@Bob In Portland: I mean, how many degrees of events are you willing to go re: avoidable wars? WW2 was avoidable if the U.S. never expanded to the Pacific, so in that sense, sure, avoidable.
@Ezsmirkzz: If Bernie, through some reality inversion, secures the Democratic nomination, I’ll vote for him.
Betty Cracker
@EZSmirkzz: Nope. Just chucking my $.02 at your question!
? Martin
@Barbara:
I generally agree, however, this is a college with 200 students. That’s smaller than your average elementary school. It is almost certainly unsustainable at that size given modern expectations of college students in a residential program. Pursuing a new campus is doubling down on the residential aspects of a program that is already marginal at best. I’m sorry but this is incompetence for anyone with any experience running a higher-ed institution. I agree if the funds were 100% secured, then it’s a do-no-harm action, but I cannot imagine they could have secured those funds in that environment. That’s half the size of the largest gift to UVA and a disproportionate fraction of the largest gift ever given to Dartmouth. It’s almost impossible to believe.
FlipYrWhig
@aimai:
I know you are trying to be generous here, aimai, but I would need a lot of convincing that a significant number of Bernie supporters are actually “crushed by fate and at the bottom of society.” As far as I can tell, it’s almost to a man [ahem] highly educated and high-socioeconomic-status white people who have wrapped themselves in the mantle of a working-class consciousness _that is entirely fantastical and projected_. It’s fantasy camp. It’s Le Petit Trianon. What has Bernie Sanders done for people “crushed by fate and at the bottom of society”? Support for LIHEAP and community health centers? Is that inspiring! uplifting! visionary! bold!, or is that basic Democratic Party stuff that didn’t rely on the particular woke-ness of REVOLUTIONARY BERNIE SANDERS? The whole thing is based on a foundation of quicksand mixed with bullshit.
Davebo
@Miss Bianca: It wasn’t Sanders’ “followers” booing, calling Boxer a Bitch and a Cunt.
It was his freaking delegates! These aren’t some nobody’s brought in off the street. They are, once again, his freaking delegates who one would hope to be a bit more mature than the kid who feels the need to post here with a moniker including his middle name (because there are just so many Becnel’s out there!).
scav
Everyone here remember that relatively edenic period where the “American Working Class” had it best during the 50s? That bastion of harmonious race relations, when women were gloriously un-glass-beceilinged and the closets were entirely empty of gays?
Cacti
@? Martin:
Precisely while I roll my eyes any time a commenter (including here at BJ) starts in about teh ebil furriners wanting to come and “steal our jerbs” or “depress our wages”. For those of a socialist bent, Marx would have been appalled at the idea. He viewed his philosophy as one that would subsume the nation state model. He urged “workers of the world” to unite. The idea of a walled, chauvinistic utopia in a Westphalian nation state is anathema to Marxist economics. It’s a half-assed hybrid of Marxism, exceptionalism, and xenophobia.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@les:
Fucking idiot, huh?
Well I’ve certainly been called worse in my life. I should be put in my place and go sit in timeup cuz I want the Democratic Party to not be the Party of War and Wall St?
No thanks, I think I’ll keep fighting against corruption wherever I find it.
tweedstereo
@Cacti:
Privately pulling every string she can…well that’s interesting.
FlipYrWhig
@? Martin:
Jane Sanders had only a modicum of experience on the board of a higher-ed institution before Burlington C., and while I have no evidence for what I’m about to say, I _strongly_ suspect she was tapped because, in classic fashion, she was related to a local politician with clout. IOW, out of cronyism.
aimai
@chopper: Oh, you laugh, but I saw someone at dKos angrily insisting that the fact that Barbara Boxer had signed a letter three years ago asking Hillary to run was proof positive of her perfidy. One of the things that is happening is that Sanders voters (the new ones) are under the impression that the race for the presidency is some kind of sporting event in which everyone who is not a candidate is supposed to be an entirely neutral referee. In their view the very fact that there is a DNC and sitting party members who are both politicians, incumbents, long time party members, and permanent democrats is a kind of insult and threat to Sanders. The real and true candidate should always come from outside the system and know no one and owe no one. So Boxer, to their mind, being a Senator should never have endorsed Hillary or even contemplated her running three years ago. She should have been neutral. Of course this doesn’t apply to Merkley, who rightly supports Sanders. See how that works?
Betty Cracker
@Linnaeus: I don’t look at it that way, but isn’t it true that to some extent, we owe our standard of living to our willingness (as a nation) to engage in international gangsterism? What’s needed is a fundamental rethinking of work and income.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne:
I agree with that one. How about the rest of them? Hey, for time’s sake, how about Vietnam? Let’s start there.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Cacti:
Precisely while I roll my eyes any time a commenter (including here at BJ) starts in about teh ebil furriners wanting to come and “steal our jerbs” or “depress our wages”. For those of a socialist bent, Marx would have been appalled at the idea. He viewed his philosophy as one that would subsume the nation state model. He urged “workers of the world” to unite. The idea of a walled, chauvinistic utopia in a Westphalian nation state is anathema to Marxist economics. It’s a half-assed hybrid of Marxism, exceptionalism, and xenophobia.
Bob In Portland
@Betty Cracker: You mean like what Sanders has been saying?
chopper
@les:
this. “new deal democrats” gave us a social security program that deliberately left out blacks and women. the new deal was a big improvement over what happened before but by today’s standards it, and the politicians who gave it to us, we’re racist and sexist as hell. I’ll take a modern democrat like obama over one from the 30’s.
Mathguy
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
“he New York Times is in the bag for Clinton. Why don’t you go check out their website and find me some Pro Sanders Anti Clinton articles?”
That is possibly the most ignorant thing I’ve read in awhile. Just wow. There is so much Clinton hate at the NYT it would be difficult to catalog it all. You, sir, are a moron.
Bob In Portland
@FlipYrWhig: Does that mean that we can include Bill when we talk about Hillary? Great. Sort of like a package deal.
Bob In Portland
@Mathguy: This.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
So, to an idiot, Democracy in Action looks like misogynistic slurs, death threats, disruption when your attempts to game the system don’t work, phone attacks on the work places of people who dare to disagree with you, followed by whining, petulance and threats to take your vote and go home. I cannot understand why you guys aren’t winning.
Karen
@chopper:
What has stopped them from giving HRC the same treatment? I don’t think she or anyone deserves the death threats. I just want to know if they won’t give her the same treatment is because they know they might get prosecuted harshly for it. I would hope they would but then again, I think they already deserve it.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@aimai:
Merkley is the only Senator/Superdelegate who openly supports a Sanders presidency.
In the DNC you play the game and you get elected. Up until this year, I agree. Bernie has proven that a Democrat can run on a small donor campaign using populist principles.
Bob In Portland
@chopper: We have a current system, a great America, where lots of blacks are still screwed. Hell, shot in the streets.
So yeah, incrementalism. When do you plan to end racism? 2150?
Linnaeus
@? Martin:
No one, even strident critics of the current global economic setup, argues that workers in other countries aren’t deserving of the same things.
What many of those critics are reacting against is that, at least in the US, the costs of setting up the current globalized order have been more concentrated than the benefits. We’ve effectively asked people facing job loss, living in economically decimated communites, etc. to sacrifice for everyone else, while not doing nearly enough to help them bear those costs and generally forgetting about them.
It’s not “greed”, at least with regard to the contexts in which we generally use the term, to want a good job with a good living. Some – to be fair, not all – of the pro-globalization rhetoric sounds an awful like “know thy place and keep it”, i.e., for workers in particular sectors of the economy to want improvements to their lives constitutes wanting something they shouldn’t be allowed to have because they don’t do the “right” kind of work to warrant it.
MCA1
@singfoom: It’ll never get anywhere close to the Supreme Court. District Court judge will deem it unconstitutional in about 5 seconds and the Circuit won’t give it more time than that.
Jack the Second
@aimai: Yes, yes, everything you said.
The Democratic Party is not a ballot line. It is an organization.
FlipYrWhig
@Bob In Portland: After all, the ideological sins of Bill Clinton have so _rarely_ been laid at the feet of Hillary Clinton.
les
@chopper:
I know, lame, isn’t it? No wonder Bechamel boy has his knickers in a twist.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Are you suggesting Sanders will end racism in America if elected President?
rikyrah
@chopper:
\
yeah, apart from that..what have they done?
Barbara
@? Martin: Yes, you are right. What I read indicated that the college had not raised anywhere close to the amount required over the course of its entire existence. She is going to be in deep doodoo and will, at a minimum, probably be paying back some of that money from her personal assets.
Davis X. Machina
@Cacti: There’s a reason why the Socialist anthem is the ‘International’. Les ouvrieres n’ont pas de patrie, and all that.
Joel
@My Truth Hurts: “Many” is overstating it. A handful, maybe.
Midnight Marauder
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You are the absolute worst block quoter this site has ever seen, man. Just flat out abysmal.
eclare
@JPL: Open primary in my state, Hillary won 66-32. But of course this is a southern state, so by Bernie math those votes for Hillary, including mine, don’t count.
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I know, idiot–let’s get some people in the party! Oh, wait, there are people? And more of the people chose Hilary than Bernie? Well. I just don’t know what to do now.
Linnaeus
@Cacti:
I agree that that kind of accusation is silly. Not everyone who has some concerns about how globalization and trade structures are affecting workers in the US thinks that evil foreigners are looking to steal jobs.
FlipYrWhig
@aimai:
Well THAT’S because the natural and rightful state of things is love for and rejoicing in Bernie Sanders, and anything that exists that _isn’t_ that is an inexplicable aberration that cries out for correction. QED.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
I know. totes just as bad, if not worse, than the Jim Crow days. today’s democrats are just as bad on race as the ones from back then.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@les:
I was specifically talking about Boxer at the Nevada Convention. When a politician abuses their position expect blowback from those attending the Convention.
Since you want to grab everything in sight concerning Sanders supporters, how about that Clinton man beating up the Sanders woman. Or the Clinton backed DNC denying Sanders access to the voting lists or the debate scheduling.
When there’s a Great Recession/depression don’t be surprised when the Kids grow up and get angry at the process and don’t kiss their elders on that hand that’s been slapping them.
FlipYrWhig
@redshirt: See, first you vote for Bernie Sanders, then you show up outside Mitch McConnell’s office window with a sign that says racism is bad, and then Mitch McConnell feels bad and votes to end racism, and then it’s over. But Obama didn’t even try!
Davebo
@Bob In Portland:
Absolutely! He currently has approval ratings in the high sixties. Sadly, Gallup doesn’t track Bernie’s approval ratings because he’s never really done anything to approve or disapprove of in over 30 years of political life. That in and of itself isn’t a bad thing. It’s hard to get significant legislation through congress and signed into law. But the thing is, Bernie’s never even tried. You’ll have that when your game is standing on the sidelines screaming at the refs.
chopper
@eclare:
oh, they count. just a bit less. 3/5 to be exact.
Captain C
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
In general, people not affiliated with the party don’t get a say, yes, just like any other organization. Given how easy it is to affiliate in most places (and given that even in places like NY, all it takes is some foresight), if you’re not registered, it’s your own laziness or purity pony mentality. Not to mention that many of the primaries were in fact open.
Bernie should stop trying to burn down the party; if he wants to keep actually running on his issues through June, that would be fine. Also, if he thinks he’s going to get any appreciable Superdelegate support after essentially calling most of them corporate whores and corrupt sellouts, he’s delusional.
Bob In Portland
@chopper: The New Deal Democrats? So we should never have had social security? You’re playing both sides of the net. I thought incrementalism was your team’s motto?
D58826
getting into tbog range
different-church-lady
@redshirt:
Are you a fuckin’ genius or what? (478 is close enough)
MCA1
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: …and that it might even be a campaign that isn’t definitively beaten until April! Provided, of course, that the entirety of the rest of the field is cleared by the presumptive nominee before the race even starts, so that that person running a small donor campaign automatically consolidates every protest vote, every grump who doesn’t like the direction of the party, every crossover Republican in open primaries, every left winger and everyone who just has a hate on for the presumptive nominee. If Biden had run or O’Malley weren’t an animated corpse Sanders would have been polling about 20% and out the day after Super Tuesday. Not faulting him for running given the circumstances, or saying that the message that someone without big money backing can make a difference is a bad one, but similar vacuums aren’t likely to pop up often in the future.
FlipYrWhig
@chopper: Hey, I wonder how the Democrats who stuck up for “the working class” in those glory days felt about black people. Probably they were huge fans!
singfoom
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Still haven’t explained how Boxer abused her power.
You can say that she abused her power again.
You can call her an asshole again.
Still doesn’t back up your claim that she abused her power.
Try again.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@eclare:
Closed primary in my state, Hillary won ~75-25. But of course this a southern state, and it absolutely counts.
Miss Bianca
@Davebo: I say “followers” deliberately. Because these Sandernista delegates were acting like cult members who’ve been stirred up against the enemies of their leader. Because “delegates” are actually BOUND by convention AND party rules to show civility and respect, and, according to the same party rules, can be put out of the assembly for disruptive behavior. (Section V, on page 3).
And they should have been, in my humble opinion. If I blame the Nevada Democrats for anything, it’s not having the cops throw the bums out, but I can imagine they figured the optics on that – “HELP, HELP, I’m being OPPRESSED by The (Wo)Man!” was playing into their hands.
So, again, I ask the Sanders apologists in the crowd: what “asshole thing” did Barbara Boxer do to justify “bitch”, “cunt”, and disruptive behavior that these “delegates” should have been thrown out for? Anyone? Anyone at all?
Bob In Portland
@chopper: Hey, your team keeps rooting for incrementalism.
different-church-lady
@burnspbesq:
Isn’t there a famous quote that ends with, “…I just want to make him deny it.”
Linnaeus
@Betty Cracker:
Yes. I’m not disputing that. What I am disputing is the implication that certain classes of workers are particularly guilty of such gangsterism because they’re worried about their jobs or worried about being able to get one.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
that’s exactly what I said. hey everybody, look at the big brain on bob here!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@singfoom:
When you deride democratic voters who you don’t like and tell them their votes don’t matter, that’s a pretty shitty thing to do.
singfoom
@Miss Bianca:
As far as I can tell, she did the same thing that makes my toddler cry. She didn’t let the Sanders delegates do whatever the hell they wanted to do at the time. Which is an abuse of power, because reasons.
different-church-lady
@singfoom:
Or don’t. Don’t is also an option.
Davebo
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Are you referring to the 3 days Sanders’ camp was denied access to the DNC voter database? Why on earth did they do that??
Oh wait, there was a reason. What’s Josh Uretsky up to these days anyway?
singfoom
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
That’s just different words for “she abused her power”. Get fucking specific. How did she deride them? Is there tape of her saying “Hey Bernie delegates, you guys don’t matter.”
Try again.
chopper
@FlipYrWhig:
huge fans. the biggest, classiest. big friends of the blacks.
Bob In Portland
@Davebo: H. Clinton got two post offices renamed. And she voted for Bush’s war.
You may think you can dismiss Sanders with a wave of your hand, but Sanders supporters can piss on the clay feet of your statue of Hillary.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: I blame Betty.
different-church-lady
@chopper: Assumes brain not in evidence.
chopper
COME ON TBOGG
Dog Dawg Damn
Another TBogg.
Happy to help the fucking thing.
Dog Dawg Damn
Hodor!
Captain C
@Spacecakes: I’m guessing something along the lines of “anyone whose politics I don’t like but isn’t batshit crazy enough to be called ‘conservative.'”
eclare
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: I honestly do not understand your point.
chopper
AAAAAAAHHHHHHH
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Miss Bianca:
Why does everything revolve around sex?
Woman, Man…makes no difference.
FlipYrWhig
@Captain C: @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Jonathan, if 50 unfamiliar people showed up to a “Louisiana Socialist Network” gathering, would you let them take over the agenda? If so, could they vote you out of the group? If not, would you have RIGGED THE SYSTEM against them?
redshirt
FUCK!
les
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Yes, fucking idiot. At least Qixote could recognize a windmill if he saw it. You’ve demonstrated conclusively you wouldn’t know corruption if it bit you in the ass. Which, I suppose, is why you’re flailing away at 25 year old bullshit falsehoods.
? Martin
@singfoom:
But that is precisely my point. “care more about its citizens than non citizens in other nation states” manifests as greed. It’s a admission that we want more – and that is a larger economy, more power, more autonomy, more rights etc. That while recognizing that Chinese workers don’t have a comfortable life, we demand that US workers have an even more comfortable life and demand that the opportunities for the Chinese workers life to improve be cut off. That the arguments Democrats extend quite liberally across state lines, ethnic lines, gender lines do not cross national lines. That line is no less arbitrary and no less exceptional than the Republican that refuses to extend it across gender or race lines. That Chinese worker is no less human than an American worker.
What I’m saying is that so long as even Democrats insist on drawing a distinction between the benefits for US workers and those for everyone else, then you better fucking live up to the reality that the rest of the world will see us as greedy fucks and that our oversized military is the only thing standing between our 16% of global GDP and the 96% of humanity that stands outside our borders. If liberals really do care about greed and conflict, they need to move their positions quite far from where they are now. And I would argue that on issues like trade, Democrats are contributing far more to global inequity and conflict than Republicans are (and Sanders doing worse than Clinton here). The Democratic party has a real problem coming up of protecting labor in the manner that it is accustomed and promoting rights broadly. They are incompatible at many levels and this constant effort of forcing a harmony between them leads to some really unfortunate outcomes.
different-church-lady
@The Thin Black Duke:
Based on the track record being laid down, I’m going with “yes”.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
500.
YES!
Another Sanders thread reaches the threshold!
POW POW
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@? Martin:
WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS.
Fuck Fascism.
Davis X. Machina
@Dog Dawg Damn: TBogg!
Miss Bianca
@Barbara: Yeah, and imagine what “free tuition” would have done to that place! Driven it into the ground while Jane Sanders was still driving the bus.
FlipYrWhig
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Doesn’t Bernie Sanders believe that sexually repressed women give themselves cancer? (source)
Davebo
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
FTFY
Miss Bianca
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
“Ah, cunt, dick, what difference does it make? It’s all sex-organ-based insults, right?”
You haven’t answered the question because you can’t answer the question. In other words, Stulte: You Got Nothing.
I think I’m gonna have to call you “Stultissime”. You’re too dim to be plain “stultus”.
redshirt
To hell with fusion power. We simply need to harness the endless naivete of Sanders supporters for unlimited alternative energy.
FlipYrWhig
@les:
Actually, he couldn’t. But like Bernie Sanders, whenever Don Quixote lost a battle and humiliated himself, he blamed his failure on evil enchanters.
Bob In Portland
@chopper:
You said that there shouldn’t have been social security. What about same-sex marriage? No one should have been allowed to get married because gays just got it.
You know, chopper, I get you and some of the other bully boys here confused, but I’m pretty sure you’re one of the racist ones in the BJ village. You are an absolutist here when it comes to civil rights, which makes you essentially a racist. Yes, social security should have been for all from the start. Arguing the absolutist position that social security shouldn’t exist because blacks have been screwed is ridiculous. You know, cops shoot blacks. Should all police departments be banished? Blacks are still discriminated in the workplace. Should we destroy all workplaces?
If I may say this, and I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re a worthless fucking piece of shit.
different-church-lady
@Major Major Major Major:
And probably came nowhere close.
mak
@WarMunchkin: Thank you. That helps, ahem, soothe the bern, so to speak. Now for the penicillin.
les
@eclare:
Your assumption of a “point” may be unwarranted.
Bob In Portland
@Miss Bianca: While you talk about Sanders’ wife, I guess that means that we can open up Bill Clinton lying about that blowjob.
Linnaeus
@Barbara:
As do I, which is one reason why I have no use for folks like Donald Trump. He’s nothing but a con man, as he has been all of his adult life.
We need to focus on all of that. Are we willing to pay for it?
D58826
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Well we final found something that Bernie is good for. :-) and that is a joke not snark
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
no I didn’t, you fucking dumbshit.
Bob In Portland
@redshirt: You’re right. Here in the bubble we’ve learned that war and greed is unassailable because it’s human nature and cannot be controlled. Thanks for all the villagers for setting us straight.
les
@FlipYrWhig:
Dammit, that’s right. Old age sucks. Oh well, many name guy won’t figure it out.
A Ghost To Most
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Yes, you’re a fucking idiot, and already well on your way to the bit bucket. Grow the fuck up, and shut up and listen to people who aren’t lying to you. Your head is full of a lot of false ‘knowledge’
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Sanders supporters could be antagonized by clouds and puppies.
Davebo
@Bob In Portland: Absolutely! Open it up, all the way!
Keep digging Bob. What you’ll find is that now, as it was 20 years ago, the only people who cared much about Bill lying about a blow job are those who will never vote for any Democrat, and folks like you still hoping for your first blow job.
Bob In Portland
@chopper: You fucking dipshit worthless piece of trash, why do you think that social security initially cut out blacks? Because FDR and the New Dealers were racists? You get incoherent when you get beyond namecalling.
Bob In Portland
@Davebo: And the slander against Mrs. Sanders? Who cares about that? Let me guess.
A Ghost To Most
And while I am at it:
Fuck you, Boob in Putinland
Fuck you, one-trick pony whiNgeR
redshirt
@Bob In Portland:
lol. Classic.
Bob In Portland
@A Ghost To Most: Grow the fuck up.
This is the part of game where I start looking to find a book to read.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: I’m curious how you think Sanders will end racism – and war and greed, also too. Is there a set of policies he has to accomplish these remarkable achievements?
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Have you read “Listen, Liberal”?
petesh
@Bob In Portland:
Got a mirror handy?
Eric U.
@redshirt: obviously, by prosecuting wall street. Duh!
? Martin
@Linnaeus:
And I’m saying that’s a false choice. One problem I see from the left is the perpetuation of this notion that labor is necessary for basic survival (a very weak form of labor enslavement) and that as a result we are all deserving of labor. This is more than a safety net construct. The safety net notion has always assumed the above, but acknowledged that some people, and many people in some circumstances would fall through.
What I’m arguing is that the notion that labor is necessary for basic survival is now false. That as a society such as the US achieves adequate levels of advances industrialization, we can shed ourselves of the notion of labor as necessary to survival. We can outsource our jobs to robots and live off the profits. And the reality is that we’ve already done that. US GDP is $18T. There are 100M households, so we have a GDP of $180,000 per household. Median household income is $52K. Historically about 50% of GDP was dedicated to labor, but we’re now well below that. The gap is due to uncompensated productivity (automation). If you can extract that (which is now captured as profits) and use that to provide a minimum living wage, then you can see a path to break that necessary connection between labor and survival. Allow people to survive without forced labor, to volunteer, to do other things, and allow the labor pool to find a more natural equilibrium. GDP will continue to climb, minimum living wage will continue to go up, and people that want to work or want to do more can do so, and it won’t require the kinds of protectionism that Democrats keep demanding.
But Democrats historical allegiance to labor (not a bad thing) forces us to accept labor as necessary, and that is the assumption that must be broken and which we are strongly opposed to breaking because it means to effectively give up on the entire core argument of organized labor.
Miss Bianca
@Bob In Portland: You want to talk about that decades-old blow job, Bob, be my guest. You don’t mind if I call you “Blow Job Bob” for the duration while you do, do you? How about we say instead “if *you’re* going to hold Hillary Clinton responsible for NAFTA and the crime bill and a bunch of stuff that she wasn’t in office for (but Bernie was, but whatevs), then *we* get to talk about Jane Sanders’s little bit of malfeasance?”
Because of course, in terms of malfeasance, getting a blow job in the Oval Office and lying about it is *completely* equivalent to knowingly committing bank fraud and walking away with a golden parachute, leaving the institution you bankrupted to go out of business, stranding faculty, students, *and* stiffing the Catholic Church while you’re at it. Nice work for a Socialist, if you can get it. You have to be the right kind of socialist, tho’. You have to be connected to very special, outsidery-insider Socialists.
FlipYrWhig
@different-church-lady: As seen in this documentary footage.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
because keeping blacks and women out was the only way to get it anywhere close to a sufficient amount of democratic votes to pass. not that FDR was shedding too many tears over it, his attitude towards POC wasn’t exactly admirable by today’s standards.
thank god for all the years of that bullshit incrementalism you bernfeelers piss and moan about which gave us the much better system we have today, amirite?
oh, and go die in a fire, bob.
Bob In Portland
@redshirt:
What’s your eyeglass prescription? Didn’t see the post I was responding to? Of course not. You’re using the same superpowers that allows you to watch Hillary prance around (figuratively) in the jewels of the House of Saud and not get sick
When I repeat the obscenities that chopper and the rest around here say, you go all puritan. But that’s one of the bankrupt strategies of the village.
But, I must say, I learn something. Some folks think that FDR was a stone cold racist so social security shouldn’t exist. Some folks think that war and greed are human nature, so ignore the jewels (figuratively) around Hillary’s neck. The answer to the poor of the South is incrementalism because, well, because as Hillary says America is Great. Right now.
? Martin
@Cacti:
And yet Sanders is the most vocal advocate for that walled utopia. It’s remarkable.
D58826
@Davebo: And Jane is fair game only so far as
1. since she seems to be the keeper of the family finances and won’t release the tax returns
2. she seems to act as an offical spokesperson so what ever she says in that capacity is fair game
3. if she used her family relationships, i.e. Bernie, during her time as president of the college there might be something that should be looked into
4. to the extent that she, like many other political spouses has a career outside of the home and/or their spouses political career then she might get dragged into the campaign.
I seem to remember that the GOP questioned Michelle’s academic credentials and whither her career was advanced by her husbands political career. Its going to be more and more difficult to keep spouses out of the line of fire as they have their own career. We are not talking Mamie Eisenhower or Pat Nixon here. And Eleanor Roosevelt drew quite a bit of flack in the 1940’s.
different-church-lady
@? Martin:
“Look, we’re just going to crash the car a little bit. Just enough to get some insurance money. The car will be fine and we’ll have a few thousand bucks in our pockets! What could go wrong?”
singfoom
@Blowjob In Portland:
That’s not what we learned here Blowjob. We learned your reading comprehension is poor. Sure, it was a remedial lesson, but it was still learned.
My final words to you for this thread are this quote from a Fish Called Wanda. I hope you’ll identify with it.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
have you read “Listen, Liberal”? yet? there’s this dumbass piece of shit here on BJ named bob that keeps pimping it. you should check it out.
Davebo
@Bob In Portland: One can dismiss Bernie’s legislative accomplishments without wasting the energy of a wave of a hand. He has practically none.
What was the military survivor benefit when Clinton became a senator, and what is it now? How did that happen? Reservists now have much improved TRICARE benefits but I guess that doesn’t count because she accomplished that by working with Republicans. Bernie rarely worked with Democrats, much less Republicans which explains why he accomplished next to nothing over 30 years.
She strengthened the State Children’s Health Insurance Program which, by the way, she was instrumental in creating in the first place as First Lady back in 1997.
All while Bernie maintained his “Maverick” status (remind you of anyone) sitting on the sidelines maintaining his purity and accomplishing dick.
WarMunchkin
@Bob In Portland: I was curious about what you were replying to. The exchange was:
The claim was that the New Deal was a big improvement over what existed in the 1930s, but by today’s standards, it would have seemed woefully inadequate.
I don’t think that’s the same thing as saying that social security shouldn’t exist because it left out blacks and women.
FlipYrWhig
@D58826:
It’s a tiny college, OK, but I find it extremeley hard to believe that Jane O’Meara, if she had never married Bernie Sanders but had done everything else the same, would have been a viable candidate for its presidency.
Bob In Portland
@Miss Bianca: How about throwing out Glass-Steagall? How about we compare alleged bank fraud (which, I might note, does not pass the standard around here because she’s not currently indicted) writing and signing laws which caused the biggest banking scandal on the history of earth? Since nobody really got indicted over it.
Miss Bianca, do you think that greed and war are so inherent in human nature that Hillary couldn’t help voting to invade Iraq? It was natural? Great. What a wonderful picture of humanity you guys paint.
redshirt
@Bob In Portland: Oh Bob. I assume your heart is in the right place. I’m not sure what’s wrong with your head.
Davebo
@D58826: Jane is fair game because she’s a paid campaign consultant for Bernie, just has she was during his House campaigns.
D58826
@Bob In Portland: Which slander would that be?
chopper
@WarMunchkin:
exactly. imagine if the ACA deliberately left out women and POC.
Gelfling 545
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Would that this were true. You may have noted however that prosperous times for the working classes in the past were most notably of benefit to the workingman And then only if he were white.
jl
So, is this post about BS the Sanders campaign is doing, or BS written about the Sanders campaign?
I think Cole panics easily, and we have another case of that. And I think Marshall and Krugman have a touch of John G Cole in them.
I thank this blog for alerting me to the danger of the vile and fell Sanders. I listened to the speeches he has given since OR and KY. I heard no strong attacks on Clinton, only desultory listing to policy differences, many attacks on Trump and the GOP, and repeated promises that defeating the GOP is the main goal. I’d be interested in hearing about anything the Sanders people have actually done that contradicts what I heard in the speeches. I’m not interested in panicked pundits breathlessly connecting the dots of other excited pundits and steam vented by campaign operatives.
I think the suggestions by Marshall and Krugman and others that Sanders implicitly admit defeat and simply go through the motions of campaigning is just as dangerous to cause of keeping Sanders supporters on board, than what Sanders is doing now.
Also, from hearing the speeches, I think Sanders truly believes that what he is doing is the best thing for the Democratic party. Offensively patronizing BS from Krugman (similar to what he wrote about Obama in 2008), tut tutting at him about grandiosity, and ALL CAPS declarations that he is a LOSER, are not very helpful in furthering understanding of what is going on, IMHO.
FlipYrWhig
@WarMunchkin: What you haven’t quite taken into account is that Bob, because he amasses all kinds of information he doesn’t understand and thinks it makes him smart, is so exceptionally dull-witted that he will never, ever realize the depths of it.
Bob In Portland
@WarMunchkin: And I don’t disagree. It was chopper who was flinging around the poo.
Likewise, although ACA still allows Americans to go bankrupt in their attempts to remain alive, it is still better than nothing.
Patricia Kayden
@Cacti: Yep. Every Sanders’ loss is a scandal and suspect. All of his wins count and are beyond reproach while Clinton’s wins are invalid for some silly reason or the other (such as she wins in states which are red and won’t vote for the Democratic candidate in November). Also, the super delegates are bad but he’s demanding that they vote for him to give him the nomination that he has not won.
Senator Sanders hasn’t done the Democratic Party any favors by running after all. I was hoping that he would move Secretary Clinton to the left and then graciously bow out once he realized that there was no path to victory. But instead we’re witnessing a 70 + politician engaging in a temper tantrum.
If Trump wins, Sanders will just be another Nader.
FlipYrWhig
@jl:
Yeah, and that’s kind of the whole problem, what with the Democratic Party voting for the other person and Bernie Sanders refusing to acknowledge it because he’s just so sure he’s awesome.
Miss Bianca
@Bob In Portland: Have you been hitting the Thunderbird a little early this afternoon? Because you’re even more incoherent and non-sequitur-y than usual.
Davebo
@FlipYrWhig:
What’s incredibly hard to believe is that a college with around 200 students, really closer to 150 full time students, paid a $200,000 severance package to her while their entire endowment was only $150,000.
D58826
@Davebo: I think that would be covered in a slightly re-written point 2.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Bob In Portland: Says the guy banhammered for months for posting racist shit.
You are glory, Bob Dwelling In Putin’s Ass. Can’t wait til one of America’s JDAMs turns your Fearless Leader into hamburger, bleeding from the shredded remains of his lungs and asshole.
FlipYrWhig
@Davebo: They must have wanted her to go away very, very badly. I understand this feeling.
different-church-lady
@Iowa Old Lady: It probably read better in the original Russian.
WarMunchkin
@FlipYrWhig: I used to participate on online gaming forums in my slightly-younger years a decade or so ago. I frequently got suckered into arguments, and as we got more and more entrenched, I thought it was a “victory” when I was able to make people take ridiculous positions like admitting that they didn’t support public education.
I realized that uncareful argument doesn’t really help; it just entrenches people, so I do my best to engage people and assume that they operate in good faith, even when they come across as too aggressive. At least I try my best, anyway. I lapse just like anyone else.
In Bob’s case, I don’t really want to speak for whatever his situation is, because I have no idea who he is. I just saw what he was responding to and thought that they were arguing over something that they both agreed upon.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Once you’ve won the fight against Balloon Juice, which top-10,000 political blog will you be moving on to next?
Bob In Portland
@FlipYrWhig:
So please explain to me about the guys with the swastikas on their helmets and chests killing people in Ukraine. Thanks in advance for sharing your great knowledge.
You realize that, in fact, I do know things that you don’t know. Do you think you know everything that everyone else knows?
But that’s not the problem. It’s knowing where to look for knowledge as opposed to where you find yourself ignoring. You should by know what Sanders supporters want and why they don’t believe that Clinton won’t deliver. If it’s merely that we don’t understand, can’t you kindly explain? Or, if we don’t fit into your vision of the world, say that.
But you are using another common villager strategy, to decredentialize opposing thought. I claim to know things that you don’t know and you do. And I’m dull-witted so I can be dismissed.
So, explain to us poor waifs worshipping at the feet of Bernie why the guys that our State Department put into power in Ukraine dress surprisingly like Nazis in battle. Did I miss a style article in the New York Times?
Then again, all humans are greedy, so maybe you’re being greedy with your superior knowledge. But it looks like you’re stupid and fighting for cover. That’s what happens when you’re greedy with your superior knowledge.
Davebo
@Bob In Portland:
What slander are you referring to Bob? Or is your understanding of that term as obtuse as you grasp of the phrase money laundering and it’s meaning?
FlipYrWhig
@WarMunchkin: Bob gets confused a lot.
Davebo
@Bob In Portland:
Damn! You really ARE hammered tonight aren’t you Bob! You’re normally obtuse but at least coherent.
cleek
@Patricia Kayden:
even those where 40% of his voters said they’d vote for Trump over Sanders in the general.
oh irony…
http://www.thenation.com/article/not-one-vote/
Bob In Portland
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Says the guy banhammered for months for posting racist shit.
You are glory, Bob Dwelling In Putin’s Ass. Can’t wait til one of America’s JDAMs turns your Fearless Leader into hamburger, bleeding from the shredded remains of his lungs and asshole.
+++
Was that why I was banned? Could you post my “racist shit”, please? Or better, get Cole to post my racist shit and his thoughts on why it was necessary to protect the villagers from my racist shit.
Another tactic used here at Balloon Juice is to call anyone who doesn’t agree with your opinions racist, misogynist or having a sexual relationship with various world leaders. Sorry, produce it, and produce the whole thread of what I was responding to, or you’re just another liar. Thanking you in advance for your cooperation in this matter. By the way, are you planning to go to war against Putin or are you willing to let the poor die over there? Got a few kids to spare?
Linnaeus
@? Martin:
I understand this idea, and I’m in many ways sympathetic to it. But I have a hard time seeing this come to fruition anytime soon. It’s also not going to be much comfort to someone who is jobless, living in an economically depressed area, or working in a declining industry because they know that they still need a job to live. That’s one reason that I bristle at the notion that people in that situation who, as a result, have and express anxieties about their economic prospects (as you, I, or anyone else here would do in similar circumstances) is being greedy
This isn’t just something that Democrats or organized labor do, it’s something that’s deeply embedded in our culture. It’s foundational to our economic system – that’s what’s forcing us to accept labor as necessary.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You mean things like “poor people don’t vote” and “early southern primaries distort the process” and “those are just red states”? Stuff like that, you mean?
Bob In Portland
@Patricia Kayden:
I guess you’ve got your exit strategy. For half a year people have been saying that they don’t like or trust Clinton. A majority of polled Americans. So if she loses the election, especially since the polls have Sanders winning against Trump, I guess you have no responsibility for pushing a disliked, untrustworthy candidate.
I guess Hillary was just inevitable, like war and greed.
Thanks. Now I’m beginning to understand the villagers here in Balloon Juice Land.
Gelfling 545
While the pie filter is surely a grand, immortal idea, I’m holding out for a filter that allows you to click on the offending poster and produce a burst of virtual flames, leaving in the spot a gaping hole with burned edges.
chopper
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
eh, once you’ve nailed bob to the wall once or twice for being a grade-A moron he convinces himself that you’re a racist or a homophobe. even when you were pointing out other peoples’ racism. it helps him deal with the hurt fee-fees and that’s what matters.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: Hey Bob/Robert/Roberta? Listen, sorry to bother you again, especially when you asked me not to, which is TOTALLY something I don’t intend to do again in the future, but I just wanted to point out that this whole calling you ‘Blowjob in Portland’ thing is way over the line and I really just can’t support it at all, even if I do find it pretty darn funny.
Still thinking over the Bob/Robert/Roberta thing. It’s been harder to crack than I thought. I beginning to suspect I might have to learn new forms of math in order to figure it out. But I promise not to bother you again until I do.
Bob In Portland
@different-church-lady: Arizona. Georgia, Louisiana. Ohio. Just the latest states that Clinton is losing to Trump. What some of us said was that winning Georgia and Louisiana won’t matter in the general election because she’ll lose those states.
Oh wait, I wasn’t going to talk to you anymore.
J R in WV
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
No Johathan, Bernie should drop out because HE LOST ALREADY !!!!
It really is that simple, after you lose, you concede in a polite speech, and go home.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: Now I feel bad. I feel like I’ve forced you to do something you didn’t want to do. HELP ME HELP YOU, BOB!
les
@J R in WV:
So, you admit the deck is stacked against the Bern. Whatshisname, the idiot–he knew it all along.
Bob In Portland
@different-church-lady: I didn’t realize that oral sex was banned here in the Balloon Juice village. People who claim with their hands on their stock portfolios that they aren’t discriminatory against gays still manage to use homophobic slurs when decredentialing, uncontexting and other strategies don’t work. Why do you think that is, difficult church lady? Praying in the wrong pews? I look forward to you counseling the various homophobes here that in order support gays it doesn’t look good to accuse people with different opinions for being gay.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland: Bob… or is it Robert? I’m concerned about this. I feel as though I have weakened your resolve. Clearly you don’t wish to continue this exchange, yet I’ve drawn you in to it, in spite of my efforts to cease according to your wishes. I feel as though I am enabling you. I think intervention might be the best course of action.
singfoom
@Blowjob In Portland: Who said oral sex was banned here in the village? Is someone using oral sex as a slur? Who’s accusing people of being gay?
I’m just calling you that because you mentioned Bill Clinton getting a hummer back in the day.
FlipYrWhig
@Bob In Portland:
Of course when Bernie Sanders won Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, and Idaho, it was proof that he had “momentum.” It’s almost as though everything that happens is proof that Bernie Sanders is awesomegreat!
Feathers
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: How to antagonize Sanders supporters: be female while talking. The misogyny of all this is breathtaking.
chopper
@Feathers:
if boxer didn’t want to antagonize the bros she should never have gotten herself those lady parts. it’s clearly all her fault.
Bob In Portland
@J R in WV: You know, if it’s over why not talk about the Warriors? They’re a really awesome team, don’t you think?
Bob In Portland
@singfoom: And I was only bringing up the hummer because of all the talk about Bernie’s wife being the cause of the Wall Street crash. You Balloon Juicers keep changing the rules.
Bob In Portland
@FlipYrWhig: Well, since it’s over and Bernie won’t be running in the fall, I guess it doesn’t matter.
How about them Warriors?
Cacti
Boob and Trump both scold Bill Clinton’s wang on the same day.
Coincidence?
Gravenstone
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Bzzzt, try again little boy. A quick search of the text finds your blockquote comes from … Investors Business Daily (aka wingtard central). You’ve proven conclusively throughout this and previous threads that you’re a disingenuous ratfucker. Kindly find the nearest available conflagrations and cast yourself upon it.
DCF
In contrast to Cole’s ‘FU’ approach (of late) to the Sanders campaign, here’s a thoughtful (and fact-based) perspective on the Democratic Presidential primary situation: http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2016/5/18/123442/567
It’s Not All About Bernie Sanders
by BooMan
Wed May 18th, 2016 at 12:34:42 PM EST
Bob In Portland
@chopper:
Or warmongers or inch-deep liberals. No, chopper, this is for you. I tend you call you a homophobe when you try to insult people by suggesting they have homosexual sex. You see, you missed step one. If you didn’t use homophobic language I wouldn’t think that you’re a homophobe. I know, this is hard for you to grasp. Try to think of it as a math formula:
1. You say in a derogatory manner that I am performing blowjobs. It’s clearly got nothing to do with the topic, so using an insult that a homophobe would use must be a homophobic insult by you directed against me. Are you following me, phobe?
2. Because you behave like a homophobe I suspect that you are a homophobe.
Get it? I’ll gladly explain it to you as many times as you need. Just like difficult church lady calling me Roberta is a kind of lame, emasculating insult on her part. The standard of bullying set here diminishes yourselves. Granted, saying that there’s nothing anyone can do about war and greed pretty much diminishes you to Republicanism, although in Dem’s clothes, which pretty much explains why you support Clinton.
Miss Bianca
@Bob In Portland: “Bernie’s wife being responsible for the Wall Street crash”? Bob, that’s stretching even for you. What I, at least, was referring to is the fact is that she (allegedly, in deference to your sensibilities) lied to the bank about how much money Burlington College had on hand during the course of a major property acquisition by said college. That’s not holding her responsible for “the Wall Street crash” – that’s holding her responsible for bank fraud.
but hey – I guess if you can conflate HRC’s foreign policy and AUMF votes into a philosophy of endless war, you can imagining us exaggerating Dr. Sanders’s shenanigans too.
nastybrutishntall
@My Truth Hurts: “So what if you need a party to win. Fuck the party. Fuck winning. Winning is for losers. We fight to be heard! And then go back to whatever.”
Jack
There is nothing new under the sun. In 2008 the rabid Hillary supporters became PUMA’s (Party Unity My Ass) and swore they would not vote for Obama, invented the “Obama is a Muslim” meme, and originated birtherism.
5% of any group act like jerks. Managers spend 95% of their time with personnel actions involving that 5%. By November at least 95% of Bernie supporters will vote for Hillary. I know I will, even with her faults. No sane person would vote for Trump.
singfoom
@Blowjob In Portland:
Bob, I want to be clear about this so you don’t think I’m a homophobe. I’m not accusing you of having homosexual sex. I mean, if you want to, that’s fine, that’s cool. Anything that floats your boat.
Hell, get two wetsuits and go crazy, I don’t care about your preferences, nor am I insulting you based on those preferences.
I’m calling you a blowjob, because most of the time you’re auto-fellating. I wanted to clear that up so there’s no confusion. Let me know which villager strategy I’m using here so I can add it to the list.
The Blog Dahlia
@Bob In Portland:
I don’t know any of you guys or your history, but would you mind actually backing that up with a link? Is this one of those things where you got all het up cause someone said ‘get Vlad Putin’s cock out of your mouth’?
Cause the only person here that brought up bee-jays is you. For what reason god only knows, as is typical.
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland:
I’m confused, Bob. I thought the CIA put them into power.
Miss Bianca
@DCF:
Booman is conveniently glossing over the fact that these “frustrated progressive consciences” are NOT being “marginalized and frustrated” – they are marginalizing THEMSELVES and frustrating other Democrats by their boorish behavior at said conventions. By making up bullshit grievances. By learning the rules of conduct at conventions only to the extent that they can try to game the system for their man, and then yell and scream and waste time with “non-binding resolutions” that don’t address shit = because they don’t understand the process – booing and yelling at Democratic office-holders, hissing and shouting down Clinton supporters – and thinking that their frustrations entitle them to act like pigs. I saw this behavior myself at the CO state convention, and it convinced me that however lofty Senator Sanders’s stated goals might be, and however legitimate the frustrations of the “progressive” wing might be, I could never support a candidate who turns on the party that feeds him *and* encourages his supporters to act like their worst selves. Sorry. Too ingenuous by half, Mr. Booman.
chopper
@Bob In Portland:
if this is anything like your accusations of racism because i pointed out that social security originally left out black people, i’m going to assume that you’re, as usual, loopy on bus fumes.
chopper
@Gin & Tonic:
IT’S ALL PIPES, JERRY!
Poopyman
Good God! This thread survived my two-hour commute from hell!
Well, carry on. Oh, and @different-church-lady:? I called it here.
different-church-lady
@Poopyman: Only missed by six minutes. Not bad, not bad at all.
DCF
@Miss Bianca:
This is precisely the dismissive, denigrating and condescending response that characterizes (too) many HRC supporters. Facts don’t matter – only opinions and beliefs do, in this insular and compartmentalized sphere. You know – like Republicans’ approach to climate change data.
Neoliberalism is dying – slowly, mind you, but surely as the sun will rise tomorrow. The political left is evolving – away from the corporatist, pay-for-play and triangulation models that have dominated our politics since the early 1990s.
CNN (the Clinton News Network) and MSNBC (Media Say Nothing Bad Clinton) are owned by Time Warner and Comcast – both of which are in the ‘Top 10’ of HRC contributors. Try listening/watching to sources that may influence you to alter your paradigm(s): The Young Turks, Thom Hartmann, Booman Tribune, Democratic Underground, Common Dreams etc….
By way of example:
Democrats Claim Bernie Sanders Supporters Are Violent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLZy2SZr5QA
Nevada Democrats Screw Over Bernie Supporters (VIDEO)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=435x0dQ5Lzg
Good night – and good luck.
redshirt
@Poopyman: Like 300 comments after I did. But good effort!
different-church-lady
@DCF: Shorter DCF: Stop paying attention to mainstream media bullshit, and start paying attention to progressive blogosphere bullshit.
Miss Bianca
@DCF: You’re the one saying “facts don’t matter”. Who am i going to believe – you or my lying eyes? The behavior I witnessed is not a “fact”? It’s just my “belief and opinion” that delegates to a convention are supposed to be comporting themselves with some modicum of respect for their opponents? Oh, gee…it’s “condescending” of me to expect civility in political discourse. Are you saying that’s that too much to expect of such passionate, frustrated people? If that’s what you’re saying, *you’re* the condescending one. “Oh, they can’t help themselves – they’re so worked up! And it’s so dismissive and mean of you to expect them to behave like grown-ups! In fact, the word “grown-up” is so dismissive and mean! Die off now, neoliberal!”
Why do I bother: you’re too ridiculous to argue with.
singfoom
@DCF: Booman’s commentary is interesting and I don’t disagree with most of it. I’d quibble with the idea that his supporters are likely lifelong Democrats in the making.
Given what I’ve seen from the videos in Nevada, the most vocal Bernie supporters are not college students, but older Gen Xers and Boomers….and if they’re not already Democrats for life, then they’re independents….maybe they moved away from the party…
That said, the analysis about the 2002-2008 is pretty spot on. I think the party will get with the program and move in a way that a lot of people want it to move, including me.
Cheers
DCF
@singfoom:
First, thanks for your measured response to my posting. Unfortunately, it’s a rather uncommon event here….
Second…I believe many of his supporters could be lifelong Democrats-in-the-making if they are not treated like the freckled-faced, red-headed stepchildren of crazed crack addicts (ie., Miss Bianca’s take)…clearly, many ‘millenials’ (and others) are discomfited by the policies/approaches of both parties, and thus declare themselves ‘independents’….
LanceThruster
Bernie has numbers polled in the general that Hillary can only dream about.
Earlier on, I’d have argued for “BLUE no matter WHO,’ but noe I’m a ‘Bernie or Bust’ voter.
CA shall lead the way. He deserves the nom for his campaign financing integrity all by itself.
#NeverHillary
redshirt
@LanceThruster: Too late brah. Bring this hot take to the next Bernie thread please.
Keith G
It’s all gonna turn out okay. Most of the delegates in Philly are gonna to be feeling pretty good about the fight in the Fall. There will be some cranky pants with credentials, but I think most will not be interested in any violent, destructive, or otherwise illegal conduct. Some might be disruptive, but that is part of the circus that is a National Convention.
As far as what goes on outside….Fuck it. That is PPD and Homeland Security’s head ache.
There seems to be whole a lot of unnecessary knicker twisting going on.
May I suggest cleansing breaths?
Edit…
@LanceThruster: Get back to me in October and we will discuss.
#HowMuchDoYouReallyCareForThePoor
A Ghost To Most
:@LanceThruster:
Doug, is that you? Whatever dude, your timing suggests you just spent several weeks in a cave, undergoing a thorough regime of Bern-washing.
DCF
@LanceThruster:
Bernie has numbers polled in the general that Hillary can only dream about.
Earlier on, I’d have argued for “BLUE no matter WHO,’ but noe I’m a ‘Bernie or Bust’ voter.
LanceThruster
@A Ghost To Most: @A Ghost To Most:
No…it’s me the original LT. I held my nose when Gore picked Lieberman (he might have well as been Sarah Palin).
Hillary won’t lose to Trump…she’s gonna lose to Bernie.
Trimp or Clunton is no choice.
Bernie or Bust!
I’ll come by to serve/eat whatever crow there is.
This ain’t Right2Rise.
redshirt
@LanceThruster: Do you seriously think Sanders can still win this primary? If so, how?
LanceThruster
@Keith G:
#HowMuchDoYouCareAboutWhoHillaryWillKill
LanceThruster
@redshirt:
In a contested one. He’s getting stronger as she’s getting weaker. Superdelegates may actually save the party.
I’ll bet they never saw that comimg!
xD
They’ll be the ones choosing to burn it down.
Clinton backers cry about intractable Bernie backers, but if they really mean ‘BLUE no matter WHO’ themselves…Bernie is by far the smarter bet.
DCF
@LanceThruster:
Hillary won’t lose to Trump…she’s gonna lose to Bernie.
Here are a couple of on-point conversations about that topic:
Why Kentucky and Oregon Matter To Bernie Sanders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ShIJ2bu8Ec
Jimmy Dore: The Bernie Or Bust Debate – MR Live – 5/11/16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpOUyTEy3hk
LanceThruster
@DCF:
Thx. Tonight when I get home. I’m practically dark side of the moon on my train rpute.
LanceThruster
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/17/02/1c/17021c4e6cd5673033d6dd15eae000c3.jpg
Keith G
@LanceThruster: She actually might end up killing fewer than Obama, but at any rate, I do not mind Hawks.
I would rather have someone running the White House who is knowledgeable, experienced, and comfortable with using military force as well as diplomacy. That doesn’t mean they will “pull the trigger”, but it does imply that if they have to, there is a better chance for greater competence.
Obama had a bit of a learning curve, and it showed. I have no idea who is in Bernie’s Foreign and Defense policy shops and that is a problem for me. There is no doubt that Obama/Clinton have had some bad outcomes, but there has also been successes. I NEED to know what Sander’s concrete moves will be. I do not know his plans so I do not know if they are competent. I feel that an incompetent Dove can get more people killed than some one who is Hawkish, but highly experienced and competent.
I do not think that HRC will undertake military action lightly. We (and she) have learned quite a lot from our recent history PLUS the national will is at a very different spot now. But, we live in dangerous times and if shit does get real, I can think of few I would rather see at the point than Hillary.
In my heart of hearts, I feel if shit does get real, I think Sanders would be more than a bit struggling in the deep end.
That is a chance that I am not willing to take.
cleek
@DCF:
dream on.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
wow, “bernie” and “integrity” in the same sentence. damn.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
#ididntgiveashitaboutvincefostersowhystartnow
Vico
@inventor: Yeah, it’s pretty revealing what “news” sources he reads, isn’t it?
J R in WV
@Bob In Portland:
“So what?” So that’s assault, a criminal offense.
Jail time…
liberal
@? Martin:
No it’s not, you stupid fuck. It’s what nation states are about. Your whole rant is completely incoherent. By your argument, it’s immoral for Obamacare to extend to American citizens/residents only.
On a moral plane, it’s certainly wrong for us to go out of our way to screw others outside the US, but barring that our responsibility for them is limited precisely because we cannot enact laws to protect them. That’s in utter contrast to affairs within our own polity, where we fashion laws to mutually protect our rights and provide for the common welfare.
Of course, it’s entirely proper to take a different view towards countries like those in Central America, which have suffered politically and economically because of our intervening in their affairs. But the notion that we have no moral right to put up trade barriers against, say, China, is preposterous.
Not to mention that the reason we’re so prosperous now, as compared to the rest of the world, has little or nothing to do with current hegemony. It rather has everything to do with luck and history. The last war that really benefited us economically (admittedly, tremendously so) was WWII, which was a long, long time ago. As such, if you really think the playing field should be leveled, that means taking what really makes us better off—accumulated wealth, not ongoing crimes—and shipping it offshore.
And since you’re so high and mighty, you smug little prick, let’s see you go first and transfer your wealth. You could send it all, and by virtue of just residing here, you’d still be better off than much, perhaps most, of the world. Why aren’t you doing it, Martin?
LanceThruster
@chopper:
I’m talking Iraqis, Libyans, and Hondurans.
She’s willing to go to war with Iran for Israel with both our blood and treasure.
Her history of flip-flopping shows how gitless she is when it counts. Bernie’s fighting to the finish line.
Cast your vote as you see fit. That’s the fucking system,
liberal
@Keith G:
Huh? The major success has been the Iran deal, which AFAIK was a Kerry thing, not a Hillary thing. The major disaster was Libya, which Hillary had much responsibility for. Of course, a lot of commenters here are too stupid to understand that it was a disaster—WE PREVENTED GENOCIDE!!1!
liberal
@LanceThruster: Buh buh buh buh…she saved that city in Libya from GENOCIDE!!1! Ask FlipYrWhig! He’ll tell you all about it!
chopper
@LanceThruster:
dogg murder is murder. didn’t she off bill’s mother also or some shit according to the goofy-ass “murdering clintons” theories? something about smothering with a pillow?
man those clintons are scary.
redshirt
@liberal: Tell me how Libya was a disaster.
chopper
@liberal:
if it’s your belief that health care is a basic human right then yes, you should believe that obamacare is immoral for just that reason.
if you think that all workers deserve the same sort of rights etc, then the economic walls we put up around our country to try to keep our wages up versus the rest are in fact unfair.
PatrickG
@cleek:
Cleek, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the Pie Filter. In fact, I’d like to thank you from the bottom of my wallet, but I’m too arsed to find your donate link. See comments at your PF site. :)
/orgasm
P.S. For those who haven’t given in to the goodness of pie, that >> thing is for that rare scenario when I/you might actually want to read one of Bob in Portland’s comments. I’m absolutely certain I’ll never want to click it for Jonathan Holland Becnel.
Hob
@aimai: Don’t know if you’ll see this, but in reading your similar comment in the earlier thread about the kind of insecurity that goes along with posturing and threats, I was struck by something that came up again and again in those Rolling Stone and Gawker interviews with the death-threat dudes. They kept saying things like “I was imagining a character like the Joker … or someone from Anonymous … or the personification of all the angry Americans who have been mistreated … I wanted my target to hear what that would sound like, or what those people would say.” I mean, of course that’s a very handy way to rationalize how it was some kind of performance art or whatever and not an actual threat (I still can’t get over that one asshole who said it was a “social hack”)… but I also got the sense that these guys somehow can’t even imagine expressing their own anger and owning it. They don’t know how to tell someone off, or not in a way that they think would be convincing, they’ve got to make up some kind of larger-than-life super-righteous-asshole character to do it for them. So it’s no surprise when the result sounds creepy and inhuman in a way that a plain ordinary drunk dude trying to start a fight would not sound.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
When two commenters- one of whom seems quite a bit like myiq2xu, and the other a resident of Petersburg who’s operating out of a boiler room along the Neva- are directlyresponsible for 1/8 to 1/4 of the comments on a thread that’s gone over a T-bogg unit, those two are probably doing nothing more than attempting to create cognitive dissonance rather than offer honest argument. Drop the ban hammer, please.
Faux News
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You and Bernie and his soon to be arrested wife (fraud) should just eat a bag of salted dog dicks.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
But we’d never see another TBU in months! Think of the popcorn retailers, man!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
This. Hammer time.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
This thread is as deserving of the attention as the Magic Mike franchise is an Oscar.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Can’t touch this.
PatrickG
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again):
Quoting the whole damn thing for truth. I presume Cole wants people to read the comments without resorting to third-party add-ons. This is Vi*gra-level spam here.
LanceThruster
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: @chopper:
Fuck whatever tabloid scandals you might want to reference. I’m talking about her public history and statements on record (I’d like to hear her Wall Street speeches but she feels I don’t deserve or need to).
You want to talk mocking dopey bullshit? How about ‘landing under sniper fire’ in Bosnia?
I don’t care if she had a lesbian fling with Yoko Ono, or that Bill’s 26 rides on the pedophile jet might indicate something more unsavory than an active sex life.
In a world where chest thumping and indiscriminant exercising of raw military power get far too many innocent people killed with tactics that make us indistiguishable from the ‘bad guys,’ Killary is nothing more than a merchant of death.
Sheldon Adelson wanted to nuke Iran as a demonstration of might and resolve. Hillary’s fealty to Israel in regards to Iran is equally disturbing. She is anti-BDS, and Bernie showed some real human empathy towards Palestinians.
Just as Dems would get shellacked in some states because of Karl Rove’s wedge issues (god, guns, gays, and abortion), I think those issues have to take a back seat to innocent people dying.
Too many people on the left will not give her their vote, myself included. Bernie does not have that same baggage.
? Martin
@liberal:
Showing your usual reasoning skills.
Obamacare does not achieve its goals at the expense of the healthcare of others. It lifts up Americans without pushing down others. That’s fine.
Protectionist trade agreements don’t work that way though. They are explicitly designed to push down workers outside the country in the hope that it will lift up workers here. It doesn’t directly lift up workers here, not like a wage increase would, or better benefits, or employer day care. Protectionist trade agreements – the very rants against NAFTA and TPP – do precisely one thing – make foreign products less attractive by, effectively, devaluing the value of foreign labor by the amount of the tariff.
Pretty sure you’ve been in the ‘no war for oil’ camp for quite some time. So don’t give us your bullshit that our economic prosperity has no relationship to our projection of power. And WWII was not part of our projection of power? Did we destroy Hiroshima with overwhelming treatment of workers?
We can argue which wars were justified and which weren’t (and we’d probably largely agree) but lets not delude ourself into believing that our ability to wage and win war has no relationship to our economic prosperity. What is our rationale for doing this?
This is not us projecting power to protect our economic interests?
I’m not the one making the argument, the Bernie supporters are, and I’m calling them and you out for your hypocrisy. In your demands for labor wage standard and job opportunities, you’re demanding an unfair transfer of wage value from other nations and demanding the projection of US force to protect that, which you simultaneously decry. You don’t get to have it both ways. If you want the superior labor conditions, you’re going to pay for it through the Department of Defense and you’re going to have to live with the fact that your mechanism for demanding it will contribute to global poverty. You’re proposed a contradiction that you are unwilling to acknowledge let alone accept.
My view is that US workers are not benefitted by tariffs, they are purely punitive toward other workers. US workers need to adapt to a much more dynamic labor situation. I have also offered multiple times that the federal government should raid corporate profits that stem from excess productivity and return those to citizens in the form of a minimum living wage. Since the majority of my wealth stems from those profits, I’m offering up quite a bit here, thank you very much. And I’m realistic that the projection of US force is necessary. Now, I disagree with the scale and the misguided wars, but it has been incredibly beneficial to the prosperity and stability of the US economy. I’m not calling for a massive de-militarization like many here are.
LanceThruster
@Keith G:
I respectfully disagree. Her ‘experience’ is what concerns me.
Bernie has integrity and compassion. Hillary’s motivation seems centered on Hillary above all else.
The fact that Jill Stein is talking possible coalition building with Bernie is inspiring. I may not get what I want, but I’m not voting for what I don’t want.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
i’d love to, but that’s physically impossible.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
of course he doesn’t; clinton voters know what’s at stake this fall and will vote for the democrat no matter who it is. it’s the sanders supporters who would rather fuck over the entire country out of spite because they didn’t get a pony. i really don’t think the point you’re trying to make here makes you look better.
LanceThruster
@chopper:
Bernie gets the nomination and you’ll get a principled Dem elected.
Win-win, no?
Put up a shitty candidate and you can’t blame Bernie supporters for the loss.
The Blog Dahlia
@The Blog Dahlia:
So I guess, Bobbarino, the answer to this question is “I got nothin'”. Good to know, it seems to follow your typical schtick. As is usual, your association with measurable reality is, how can I put it charitably, tenuous.
LanceThruster
@chopper:
Oh, zing!
Guess I should just slink away now.
The Blog Dahlia
@LanceThruster:
So it’s like a protection scam; you’re trying to take advantage of the moral pragmatism of democratic voters by trying to push on them a guy who says that they are a bunch of corrupt assholes, and if they don’t accept it well, it’s a nice country you have here, it’d be a shame if something happened to it.
Yeah, politically that totally meets the definition of “win-win”. And you want to be our latex salesman.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
now? lol, no, that shit’s long overdue.
The Blog Dahlia
@LanceThruster:
If Bernie supporters deliberately fuck this election over, trust me on this, by the time 2018 comes around anybody left of whatever is going to spit on the ground you guys walk on. You think Nader voters caught hell after 2000? Lord n’ butter you have no goddamn idea, son.
LanceThruster
@The Blog Dahlia:
No, Hillary promoting herself as the ‘not-Trump’ is the protection scam. Bernie as the ‘not-Hillary’ is a just cause.
FlipYrWhig
@Hob:
This is because no one doing these things has actually been mistreated in any way. The entire “movement” is role-playing as defenders of imaginary downtrodden masses, _who they aren’t_. They’re either excitable kids or affluent people still harboring grudges from 2003 and 1996.
LanceThruster
@chopper:
I get it…you got nothing.
This must be what intense sniper fire is like.
FlipYrWhig
@LanceThruster: Considering that Bernie Sanders is neither principled nor a Democrat, I see some flaws in your scenario.
LanceThruster
@The Blog Dahlia:
Nader ran third party. Bernie can give the Dems a presidential win…Hillary likely cannot.
LanceThruster
@FlipYrWhig:
He has no corporated funded superpacs and he’s winning Democratic primaries without any of the advantages Hillary had/has stacked.
Yeah, I’d call that integrity and a doggedness that is comendable.
Hillary and her minions/supporters soured me on “BLUE no matter WHO.” I used to make that same argument.
I now see it as a farce.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@LanceThruster:
Sanders can’t do shit, and never has. He pulled fantasy numbers out of his ass to support proposals for free stuff that most people outside of the white dudebro bubble don’t need or want, especially for **those people*. His stated tax plan to fund it would require the highest tax increase in peace time history, that even his own cult members wouldn’t be willing to pay for, to increase the size and role of the government in everyone’s life to an unprecedented degree. Everyone would run screaming to Donald Trump, who would be tweeting like mad about Crazy Commie Bernie and Crooked Jane spending your tax money on a free college scam and trying to give away our country to those people. He went to the Soviet Union on his honeymoon and supported the Sandanistas.
Bernie has NOT been vetted. You’re delusional.
LanceThruster
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Then don’t give him your vote.
See? That was easy.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
this really smacks of doug trolling the blog. with the stilted ham-handed attempt at talking points and everything.
Bobby Thomson
Are we still talking about that dickhead? Everyone but the absolute dipshits are already heading for the exits on that campaign.
LanceThruster
@chopper:
Well…doug and I both know I’m not doug. Nothing ham-handed about declaring myself Bernie or bust. Your vote is your own to cast based on any number of factors you see as applicable.
I see a vote for Bernie as a line in the sand.
Love trumps hate.
LanceThruster
@Bobby Thomson:
So Hillary can’t even lock up the absolute dipshit vote.
I think Trump might.
Those wanting a future to believe in are voting Bernie.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
you know that’s a clinton slogan. yeah, you’re doug all right.
BillinGlendaleCA
@LanceThruster:
Nope, the Republicans will turn Bernie into greasy spot on the sidewalk.
Cleos
@different-church-lady:
Well, those vacation flights to Italy don’t pay for themselves.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
Who won?
Karen Bidwell
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: I agree with you Jonathan. Sanders’ commitment to staying in this primary until it is over is legitimate. There is a process and there are rules — neither of which say he has to bow out now just to appease the Clintons. Frankly, I’m quite tired of those two and will vote for Hillary only because Trump scares me more than the dismal prospect of Bill back in the white house running her economic team.
Berto
You need to make up your mind. Is my vote important, or isn’t it?
In the past, i wrote here that HRC gets my vote if she works for it (promises to not sign trade deals that are bad for the citizens, will treat corporate fraud like the felony it is, and promises not to sell me out for political expediency, etc). Without those promises, she doesn’t get my vote.
On this site, I was accused of being a unicorn-wishing, special snowflake, who thinks his vote is SOOOOO important.
So, I ask you to make up your damn mind. Either my vote is so important, that withholding it from HRC will allow Trump to ruin the world, or my vote isn’t important and HRC shouldn’t work to get it.
Carolyn Kay
@JMG: Some of them may actually be Roger Stone employees (http://bit.ly/224NZrM).
odessa
The conspiracy theories, the whining, the complaints of a rigged primary really need to stop! Bernie and Hillary both knew and agreed to the rules. Hillary is winning fair and square and will likely get the pledged delegates BEFORE the convention. If Bernie cared at all about the Democratic party, he would do the adult thing and bow out so Hillary can focus on Trump and WINNING the general election! He is hurting the Democratic Party by staying in. Hillary has 3 MILLION more votes and 280 more pledged delegates. Hillary and Barrack were so much closer (100 pledged delegates), and although Hllary would have been justified to fight it out at the convention, she did the right thing and conceded, endorsed Barrack, and got most of her supporters to do the same. Hillary is a LIFELONG DEMOCRAT. She has supported down-ticket Democrats, whereas Bernie has not. The fact that Bernie won’t denounce the people at the Nevada Caucus for their behavior (instead blaming the Democratic party) speaks volumes about his lack of judgement and leadership abilities. Now he is playing the victim card. He has really strayed off course. The attacks and negativity is just as bad as the neocons. And now he is demanding another debate…seriously?! Bernie has strayed off course. It is about his agenda. He is being a sore loser. There is no “path” to victory for him. He has stated that he will do whatever it takes to defeat Trump, but his actions say something entirely different.