HRClinton 2016. Because somebody needs to be the grown-up. [Emphasis in the original.]
The notion that Hillary is the “grown up” in this campaign is perhaps true, considering the competition. But what does it mean to be a “grown up”? I think we can all agree that Barack Obama is probably the best example of a “grown up” politician that we’ve seen in the past few years. And if we look at Obama’s actions around the time when Hillary’s campaign was flopping around like a gutted fish in 2008, after her moron advisors helped her lose the race, we can see what a “grown up” did.
He quietly let Hillary’s campaign burn out, and when she quit, he was gracious about it. We should expect the same from Hillary, and we should also expect Bernie to quit when he feels that it is bloody obvious to his supporters that he’s lost. We should also expect him to endorse Hillary wholeheartedly and without reservation.
At this point in 2008, I was concerned about Hillary’s campaign, but I assumed she would come around. In 2016, I feel the same about Bernie. Both of them, as well as their advisors and supporters, said some dumb things in the death throes of their campaigns. (And a lot of people were freaking out.) Those dumb things were forgotten by early Fall, 2008, and I’m sure the same will be true by Fall, 2016.
Speaking of “grown ups”, at this point in 2008, there were fewer “grown ups” in the Hillary camp than in the Sanders camp today:
One of the revealing nuggets of information from the recent NYT/CBS poll was that 72% of Bernie supporters say they plan to vote for Clinton against Trump. That compares to 60% of Hillary supporters who said the same thing about Obama in the same poll eight years ago. As we know, virtually all of Hillary’s supporters went on to vote for Obama. […]
I expect both Bernie and Hillary to be grown-ups and end this thing soon, and I expect Bernie’s supporters to back Hillary in the general. Apparently I’m in the minority here, but I don’t see more evidence of impending disaster than there was in 2008.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t think so.
Shana
http://nyti.ms/1XNqflm
Let’s see if this link works. It’s a link to a NYT oped on Bertie Wooster vs. Donald Trump.
WJS
She had pragmatic reasons to stop campaigning. Sanders has every reason to keep going–he isn’t going to be a player in the Democratic Party, he can create a new thing called “Brand New Congress,” and he can reap millions from the same people who have been giving him money. She wanted to have a future in electoral politics. He wants to build a fundraising scheme. Really, this isn’t hard to figure out.
Yutsano
Eh. The true Berners will still stay on their crosses even after Bernie stops. Hillary has the vast majority of the Obama coalition behind her and lots more Latino voters coming on board. She’s more or less ignoring him now.
dedc79
Yes, but Hillary’s supporters were almost all Democrats. Many of Sanders’ supporters are not.
schrodinger's cat
Sanders can go pound sand as far as I am concerned.
chopper
1. being the grown up in the room doesn’t mean you’re the most grown up person who has ever been in the room. however, compared to sanders she’s practically spock; she’s run a very nice campaign considering.
2. fuck sanders.
3. you can tell it’s really winding down now that sanders supporters are acting like hilz has to be super nice to their fee-fees, even though no matter what she does they’re going to call her an asshole over it.
4. fuck sanders.
i think there may be a 5., but IIRC it’s the same as 2. and 4.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
Not sure you’re in the minority — it could just be that the rest of us aren’t participating in the BernieBros vs. Hillarybots threads.
Although maybe it’s me, but they seem to be dying down a bit lately…?
ETA: Or maybe not.
Marc
@WJS: And, somehow, these cartoon villain tendencies of his were hidden during four decades of more or less peaceful co-existence with congressional Democrats; they’re contradicted by his own words; and they make no sense as an expression of his ideology.
But they do feed into a simplistic story that tells some people that anyone who opposes their favorite candidate is evil.
Clearly, door#2 is correct.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Shana: It took me to the NY Times front page. (Mobile site, but I’m using my phone, so that’s probably why.)
Cacti
Speaking of Bern, he’s recently decided to run as El Libertador de Puerto Rico, campaigning on freeing them from US colonial rule, even though Puerto Ricans have birthright US citizenship since 1917.
smh
Iowa Old Lady
Between Springsteen and Hamilton, there is a quote for every occasion.
eclare
@WJS: And he has already filed papers to run as an Independent in VT in 2018. He has no ties to the Democratic party whatsoever. ‘Nuff said.
Starfish
In fairness, a John McCain presidency with Sarah Palin as VP would not be as close to the apocalypse as a Trump presidency.
Omnes Omnibus
@Iowa Old Lady: Elvis Costello and The Clash.
Baud
No one knows for sure what Bernie will do after California. He may not know himself yet.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
If Sanders does the responsible thing and acts like a grown up leader, it will be his first time. He’s a petulant childish asshole who has lost the plot, if he ever had it.
Omnes Omnibus
@eclare: Not the case.
Betty Cracker
I sincerely hope you’re right and until very recently saw things the same way. Sanders’ criticism of the party and the nominating process is what I find worrisome. Kinda hard to walk back “I wuz robbed!”
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Omnes Omnibus: Spinal Tap.
Jeffro
@Starfish:
Only for as long as McCain’s ticker kept up the good work. After that sad day, we’d just be splitting hairs as to which administration – a Palin one or a Trump one – would be the last administration. I don’t know which would be worse, but I do think it’d be the end of this little experiment we call the U. S. of A.
dollared
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: and where would MM be without the Rolling Stones?
kindness
Meh. I figure most Bernie folk will end up supporting Hillary. But that percentage will vary with 1) what Bernie says when he pulls the plug and 2) the emotional stability of Bernie people who’ve just been (for lack of a better comparison) Tindr dumped. It’s gonna leave a mark for some of these people and it seems they like to tell everyone about it. Modern Social Media. Boon, Bane or Both?
Trollhattan
One of the downcard races just got a lot easier to call: Kamala Harris will replace Barbara Boxer in the senate. I don’t put a lot of stock in the impact of endorsements, but in California, Jerry’s means something tangible.
petesh
Food for thought (I mean it, maaan):
Do Sanders Supporters Favor His Policies?
I clicked through a couple of the exit polls, and confirmed that “Voted Sanders” and “Very Liberal” (self-estimation) are NOT completely overlapping. Indeed, in Pennsylvania Clinton beat Sanders in the “Very Liberal” although Sanders beat her handily among the young.
The authors’ argument (it’s a NYT Op-Ed but with links) is that politics is about identification more than actual policies. Essential, young folks are anti-establishment and Bernie is the anti-establishment candidate, but they are not particularly in favor of policies such as raising the minimum wage, raising taxes, or spending more government money on healthcare.
Of course, I’m just a cynical old hippie, but I have seen too many false dawns to have much hope in this one.
Amir Khalid
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
“And will our voices be heard, or will they break like the wind?”
dollared
@WJS: Really. Bernie Sanders is in it for the money?
Cacti
@dollared:
Since he won’t release his tax info, we don’t really know, do we?
Betty Cracker
@Trollhattan: From what I’ve read of her, that’s a good thing, no?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@dollared: why won’t he release his back tax returns? Because it will show he’s a multi millionaire who in the aggregate has given little to nothing to charity. Profiting of the working class tax payer while turning his back on the less fortunate, that’s some socialist. Marx is rolling over in his sarcophagus.
eclare
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for the correction. Easy to misinterpret, but I should have done more homework. Still would not surprise me at all if he does run as an I. But I will wait til he does file something.
MomSense
There are several differences between this election and 2008. First, I’m not persuaded that there is any benefit to a contested primary battle in a year when we are trying to keep the executive in the same party as a two-term pres.
The second difference, and the more significant IMHO, is that Sanders is running against the Democratic party, the record of the sitting president of the same party, and dancing around accusations of corruption against the party, the party leadership, and the front runner. This makes the situation very different from anything the Clinton campaign said or did in 2008 (infuriating as that was).
In O/T news, I’m cleared for actual, solid food and I’m really tempted to have a burger which would be the first in a loooooong time. I also no longer have to go to the hospital 3 times a week for IVs. Yay me. I plan to celebrate tonight and not think about the bill for all this.
Cacti
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
And as his day trip to Rome to stalk the Pope showed, Bernie and Jane have no problem with the high life.
Brachiator
I don’t think so. There was furious politicking over what might be sufficient to mollify Bill and Hillary and to make sure that Bill would campaign for Obama. The noise that Hillary should be Obama’s VP was loud and insistent, from Clinton surrogates as well as from voters.
The grown-up thing is OK, but I’m looking for a president who can govern and fight with the Republicans. Especially since I think that Trump is ignorant and incompetent. But he’s not a child. Nor is he a fool.
The Hillary as “grown-up” stuff sounds more like a stern grandparent or hall monitor, not a leader.
WarMunchkin
Sanders doesn’t really matter anymore – his supporters have enough of an epistemic closure loop to continue the hate cycle well after the primary. Many will go green. The issue is picking up a lot of the only partially engaged younger people who lightly lean Democrat more than than their disengaged peers, who are not going to vote. It’s not like the primary electorate is anything close to the size of the general electorate.
MomSense
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Trump isn’t releasing his tax returns because they will show he is not as rich as he says and Sanders won’t release them because they will show he is much richer than he lets on.
eclare
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Methinks would also not show Jane in a very good light.
JPL
@Starfish: True. Now if Sarah poisoned the president, then I might have to reconsider my answer.
Baud
@MomSense: I missed your illness. Hope you get better soon.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@MomSense: Yay you! :-) Enjoy your recovery.
Cheers,
Scott.
Corner Stone
@Brachiator: Jeebus Fucking Christ.
Miss Bianca
@MomSense: yay for your progress to solid food!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Cacti: for reelz. What kind of socialist takes $27 donations from desperate folks and uses them to rent a luxury jet and serve lobster hors-d’oeuvre.
There’s a scene in the movie “Reds” when John Reed encounters Socialist Alexander Kerensky only to find him living like an oligarch and Reed says in horror, “this is a socialist?!?”
Lamh36
So I’m still having this problem.
whenever I’m logged into my home wifi, I can’t seem to post over at BJ?
looks like its a problem with wordpress, I tried to post at another WP blog and had the same issue
right now I’m on my cell network, but when at home I mostly use home wifi so, this is a problem…anyone have any solutions I can do myself or is this the blog masters issue?
jl
I see hopeful signs. Unlike what I hear from the gasbags on the TV shows, at least in his stump speeches has shifted focus to Trump and beating GOP, I only listened to one stumper where he even bothered to put in a section attacking HRC, and it was a desultory list of ‘policy differences’. And in interviews his stated demands for acceptable Dem platform are getting vaguer and more flexible. I heard on the news that the DNC has given him 5 seats on the platform committee, and Sanders campaign said that was a good move towards getting a united effort going for the general election.
I don’t see how Sanders is acting much different than HRC did in 2008. Sanders’ pitch will have to be different, since his political revolution has had equal billing with his candidacy, and he is playing that up even more now that his campaign is winding down. I think will be more drama at the convention than in 2008, but for big protests, disruption and action in the streets, the GOP meeting shows more promise.
Lamh36
P.S. still on my cell network but I’ll check back for answers on my laptop
Cacti
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Pretty much every country on earth that has had a socialist ruling class.
Caviar for the politburo, bread lines for the proletariat.
Splitting Image
I haven’t been commenting much, but when I have, it’s been to say that Clinton is going to mop the floor with the short-fingered vulgarian. This involves certain premises, including the fact that I expect most of Sanders’ supporters will eventually vote for Clinton. Several prominent Clinton supporters from 2008, including the guy who ran the “Hillary is 44” website, loudly refused to vote for Obama and eventually joined the Republican party, but there were never enough of them to stop the Prez from getting elected and re-elected.
That said, “Bernie Bros” are mostly Ron Paul supporters parking their votes with Sanders in between the collapse of Rand Paul’s campaign and Donald Trump’s convention triumph. A certain percentage of young people will always be libertarian-curious, I suppose, but how many people the Democrats are actually risking losing by not nominating Sanders is hard to say. Hardcore “Bernie or Bust” voters seem to be the exact sort of (white male) people who don’t grow out of their libertarian phase and actually get worse as they get older. The Democratic Party is better served by finding votes elsewhere.
Brachiator
@Trollhattan:
I think there are 30 or more people running for this office. My only concern here is that voters might not be able to find Harris’ name on some ballots, and that some ballots might be invalidated because people mark the wrong boxes.
My Truth Hurts
There are no grown ups. Anyone over 35 should have already figured that out.
chopper
@Lamh36:
BWA HA HA
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Given the way that played out, people might want to think through the consequences of a revolution.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@eclare:
Jane’s comment on Fox about wanting the FBI to hurry up with their investigation of Hillary was quite the tell, considering she’s actually being investigated for bank fraud now by the Feds, and it doesn’t look good for her at all. It’s always projection with these people.
Cacti
@Lamh36:
I guess that means Sanders is on the bargaining stage of his Kubler-Ross progression.
Cacti
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Maybe Bernie ran for POTUS to try and save Baby Jane a trip to club fed.
jl
@Lamh36: I’ll be interested if i hear a quote from Sanders or someone close to him in his campaign. As I noted in my comment, what i have heard from gasbags on the news talkies doesn’t match what I hear from Sanders himself in his speeches and interviews since KY and OR.
cmorenc
@dollared:
Instead, Bernie’s mainly on a colossal narcissistic ego trip, brought on by his unexpectedly great success in becoming a seriously competitive candidate for the Democratic nomination, close enough that he is as taken as Gollum in LOTR was with “my precious”. His narcissistic ego trip is compounded by his savior complex – he sees himself engaged in a truly noble quest to save ordinary American people from a corrupt establishment. His parallel unexpected degree of success in raising money is a key enabler for that success, but Bernie isn’t in it for the money.
dmsilev
@jl:
And apparently one of his choices to sit on that committee was Cornel West.
Sigh.
Major Major Major Major
@Lamh36: The stupid, it burns.
Brachiator
@srv:
No, but neither does this make me want to fall for the “hostage crisis” metaphorical nonsense you reference.
jl
@dmsilev: Sad he wants to waste it that way. If it makes the old coot happy…we have to hope for the best.
A Ghost To Most
@dollared:
Maybe not before Tad Devine came onboard, but after that …
Betty Cracker
@Lamh36: Anne Laurie and I had a similar problem a while back. I had to get my ISP (Verizon) to reset something.
Slaughter
@Starfish: Indeed. That’s why I think most Bernie supporters, me included, will have no problem voting for Hillary when the time comes. McCain would not have been as disastrous as Bush was (at least I would hope note), and he would have been given the best medical care the planet could provide, given his successor. Trump as president likely would be worse than Palin would have. At least she would have quit after a couple of years.
Roger Moore
@Cacti:
And independence has never been popular when Puerto Rico has had a chance to vote on the issue. Unlike statehood, which has come close to winning a plurality in the past, independence has never managed to get more than about 5% of the vote in status referenda.
WarMunchkin
@Lamh36: I thought we learned in 2009 that you can’t pre-compromise with Teahadists.
Brachiator
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
This reminds me. Where are Bernie’s tax returns?
Cacti
@Roger Moore:
Bernie dreams of the day when Puerto Rico can have its own Fidel Castro.
lwestsd
@eclare:
I went to the FEC site linked in the DKOS article but followed their 2016 link on to this page
http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?&tabIndex=1&candidateCommitteeId=S4VT00033
The activity may be occurring in 2016 but it’s for the 2018 Senate campaign:
Name: SANDERS, BERNARD (I – INCUMBENT)
Office Sought: S – SENATE
Election Year: 2018
State: VT – VERMONT, District: 00
Party: INDEPENDENT
Hope that helps.
Egilsson
The concern I have is the nature of the Bernie Bros, and their ignorant, self-defeating, self righteousness. The Clinton people 8 years ago were unhappy, but they were democrats, and they handled the caucuses and convention with grace, by and large.
I think the Sanders crowd is different, and they are being fed victimization and lies from the Sanders team – so I believe they will be a nasty, disruptive force at the convention, they will hurt Clinton, but she may still win.
I have never seen a winning team behave as shitty as the Sanders crew did at the Maine caucus and convention. They treated every speaker who wasn’t on Team Sanders with contempt and heckled everyone – including a 75 year old Clinton supporter.
I was really bothered by the Sanders crowd. I think they are different; they may be a poison to the party.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: My friends on facebook assure me he’s already posted them, but Sanders isn’t the real issue, it’s all about
ethics in gaming journalismgetting money out of politics, and what does Jane and Burlington College have to do with anything, and besides Bernie doesn’t have anything to hide so why should he release his tax returns, and Hillary wants to blow up brown people.LABiker
It seems worse to me this time around. Maybe it’s because of Facebook. I have a friend who quit FB over a year ago, but now he’s back because we really needed was someone with the courage to use social media to speak the truth about Bernie’s purity and Hillary’s perfidy.
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major: I guess this is why I stay away from Facebook.
I’ve heard some Trump supporters also talk about how his tax returns are irrelevant, but the Clintons’ tax returns show how they are scam artists.
Lamh36
@Betty Cracker: ugh…this all started when I switched out my modem/router with my ISP.
I’ve had nothing but trouble with it since last Thursday. I’m done with that provider, I’ve already got a new provider installation scheduled this Wednesday.
Posted from my IPhone
debbie
Toward the end of this NPR report (no transcript available), the reporter cites an NBC/WSJ poll which found that less than 10% of Sanders supporters will not vote for Clinton.
So the bullying can be stopped already.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Brachiator:
Another “tell” was when Sanders was first asked about those tax returns, he quickly said Jane does them and she’s been busy. He couldn’t throw her under the bus fast enough, and the tax return issue has never been seriously raised again. I think everything is in her name, and I think she’s been hiding a lot of assets and/or income write offs. As a college president you get a lot of perks, and she was funneling $500K of college funds to her daughter’s **woodworking** school in the Caribbean. Not long after, she gets let go with a golden parachute under mysterious circumstances, then the college goes bankrupt. They haven’t been vetted at all, and if you think Bernie would do better v. Trump, you’d be really really wrong.
Josie
@MomSense:
I am glad you are getting better, but I didn’t know you were sick. Going for IV’s sounds serious. Hope your recovery continues nicely.
Betty Cracker
@Lamh36: Hopefully that’ll fix your problem. We need your sanity and cute photos of your niece around here!
Cacti
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Also unexplored is whether St. Bernie used his political influence to help grease the skids for Jane’s 8-figure liar loan for Burlington College.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: I have to disable notifications for every pro-Hillary post I put up, because the same 5-10 people spam them about how they can’t believe I’m supporting her and I “of all people should know better.” But I know people who won’t post pro-Hillary stuff at all because the slavering hordes ruin even the most benign thread. They send me private messages of all the stuff they want to share, instead.
Ruckus
@Lamh36:
It wasn’t an issue before the new WiFi so I’d bet the problem lies there. It may be simply that you have a new IP address now and WP is rejecting you rather than putting you in moderation. It may be that a port address is blocked by the security of the WiFi and that’s not letting you post or get a return from WP that would insure that you are who you say you are. This is from memory as to how it works and may have also changed with the new blog version which uses an HTTPS address for better security.
IOW I’d bet it’s the WiFi set up that is causing the problem. Someone far more current than me may be able to help.
Major Major Major Major
@Lamh36: Click through my nym and leave a comment somewhere and I can let you know if I see anything on my end.
Smiling Mortician
@Brachiator:
Only because that’s your image of Hillary. Obama as “the grown-up” has been the standard meme for years, and it never meant “stern grandparent or hall monitor.” It meant “leader.” There could be plenty of reasons why the application of the term “grown-up” to Hillary Clinton makes you think of scary women from your grade-school days, but one of those reasons is really jumping out at me right now.
Trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
She has the pedigree to be good and has done positive things as AG; hopefully she’ll become even higher profile as a senator. Fascinating background: born in Oakland her parents are from India and Jamaica. Mom’s a surgeon and dad teaches econ at Stanford. You know, typical.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I’m surprised Sanders named Cornell West to a convention committee. If he was going to waste his pick he should have gone big and named Susan Sarandon or Tim Robbins.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
christ, he’s as mad as a hatter. The same day he pisses on Obama with Cornel West, again, he starts making demands about Clinton’s cabinet .
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Cacti:
It’s a small town, and I’m sure St. Bernard’s popularity and status hovered over everything. Plus from what I can ascertain of Jane’s personality from her TV appearances, she’s forceful. The quotes I’ve read from some of the other trustees of the college indicated that they didn’t think that huge loan was a good idea but went along, admitting without the proper due diligence. As you can easily imagine. The problem now is, if the Feds don’t get her, there are a lot of pissed off alumni and parents of students out of tens of thousand of dollars, because of Jane Sanders and her grift.
Mnemosyne
@MomSense:
Yay to solid food! You may want to keep it simple for a few days so your tummy doesn’t rebel at getting what it thinks it wants (it’s like a 3-year-old that way) but you should be burger-ready by, say, Thursday.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@lwestsd: That page is for his fundraising committee called “Friends of Bernie Sanders”. It has had that name since 2006 or so. If you click on the link for Individual Contributions, you’ll see they go back to 2014.
The FEC fundraising filings have no impact on how he is listed on the ballot in 2018. The way he’s listed on the ballot will be determined by how he files in 2018 under Vermont law.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
(IOW, what OO said earlier.)
Omnes Omnibus
Interesting piece from the NYT.
Trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Haven’t seen a cattle call like this since the Gray Davis recall. IIUC it’s top-two finishers on to November ballot.
I keep getting flyers from “Duf Sundheim” and half believe they’re parody, right after wondering why they’re misspelling “Duff.” But hey, the mayor of Hercules is on board, so I continue to watch for the blimp and/or Duffman.
Just Some Fuckhead
@srv: You are killing.
JPL
@Mnemosyne: I’m glad that you mentioned that, because I was a tad hesitant.
Beef if hard to digest anyway. If I lived near her, I’d deliver a nice sole with rice.
That’s just the mom in me.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@srv: It’s true. He’s gained a lot of weight recently. That’s the downside of having a private chef on the French Rivera.
Ruckus
@cmorenc:
He may not be in it strictly for the money but never, ever underestimate the power of money. We all like it, we all spend it and we all would like to have more of it. We may not be as greedy as the 1% is seen as or think that having some makes us prettier, sexier, happier and we may not think we need a lot more but we all like money. It doesn’t matter that we’d just give most of it away or buy a nicer house in a better location or whatever, we all like money, we all need money to exist these days and I don’t think that’s wrong. Now talking about supporting vets and collecting 6 million for them while not actually coming close to that or being able to account for what any of the money was spent on isn’t what I mean here or saying you are worth 10 billion while actually worth less than a tenth of that. Or claiming to be just a local yokel with a measly pittance of a pay check while having a lot more because you are full of shit.
philadelphialawyer
@jl: One difference is that in 2008 the essence of HRC’s last ditch pitch was NOT “We wuz robbed!” Yes, there was some sniping about Michigan and Florida, and the caucus versus primary thing, but, in the main, her and her campaign’s notion at this point was that the race was very, very close and so the superdelegates could, perhaps, throw it to her as the more established, experienced, etc, candidate.
Whereas now it is all about the process being “rigged” against Bernie. Not just two contests (which actually were disregarded by the party), but EVERY contest he does not win is the source of some BS gripe. NY, MA, Nevada, Arizona. Every closed primary. The South. DWS. The debate schedule. Etc. And it is not just the so called “Bernie Bros,” rather the candidate himself stokes the conspiracy theories. Even in Nevada, his terrible “but…..” apology repeated the totally false claim about how unfair it was to bar the 58 Bernie delegates, even though they didn’t even bother to contest the ruling that they were ineligible.
Again, it is not necessarily such a big deal that some of his Dead End Kid supporters are entitled morons, almost parodies of themselves. But it is a Big Deal that Bernie is the nodal point of what has been called the “endless feedback loop of paranoia and conspiracy theories.” Because it is harder to walk that back than HRC’s ’08 claim that she should have been the candidate because she was more qualified.
Bernie re Nevada:
“The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.”
Four hundred of his State delegates did not show up! At all! And yet the chair (correctly) barring 58 non registered Democrat Sanders delegates (HRC had a few too, by the way), who could not be arsed to even claim that they WERE qualified, is why Bernie lost a couple of national delegates to Hillary (who, oh by the way, did actually win a majority of votes in the caucus back in February).
How does he now say “Never mind?” Never mind about how “unfair” the process under which he has been defeated has been. Never mind that he lost under rules that he characterizes as “wrong?”
WarMunchkin
@Egilsson: Josh Marshall had a post up talking about the structural differences between Clinton endorsing Obama and Sanders endorsing a Democrat. (He also put it in context with the same concerns involving the 2008 PUMA debacle, which, fine, totally fair).
And from that perspective, I agree, I think Sanders is going to kamikaze the convention pretty hard – because he has no incentive not to; it’s the cause of his life to call out the Democratic Party for perceived failures.
When HRC spoke in 2008, endorsing Obama, she also took some time to talk about some people who passed away during the year – Arkansas Democratic Party Chair Bill Gwatney and Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones. And the reason she could do that is that she actually took the time to get to know people and help them organize, had real respect for them. Sanders isn’t the same type of politician and doesn’t really have the same respect for his co-workers, so there’s no interpersonal incentive for him to do anything either.
Like JMM said, the dynamics are completely different.
BillinGlendaleCA
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Is Cornell West a Democrat, could be problems if he isn’t.
In other news, latest CA polling had the Hilbeast up over St. Bernie by 18.
Mnemosyne
@Splitting Image:
I am slightly worried that Bernie won’t come around, but unlike the people on my Facebook, I think he knows damn well that Trump would be a disaster and he’ll be willing to swallow some of his pride to prevent Trump from winning. You don’t stay in government for 40 years and then decide to burn it all down because your ego got bruised. He’s not Nader, a guy who never held political office.
There was a recent poll showing that the vast majority (like 70 percent) of Millenials prefer Bernie but will happily vote for Hillary, so I think the Bern-or-Busters will have the same effect as the PUMAs in 2008 — nil.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: As a US Senator, Bernie would have “Advice and Consent” WRT a President H. Clinton’s cabinet. Anything more than that, Fuck Him!
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: The EC does not look “challenging” for Trump. It looks like the environment Max von Sydow walked out into in Judge Dredd, for the “Long Walk”.
Corner Stone
Can someone please atomic wedgie Jeff Weaver for me? K, thanks bye.
rikyrah
@MomSense:
Not only that, but also that his tax rate is ridiculously low. That is assuming that he paid any taxes.
rikyrah
@Lamh36:
Phuck.outta.here
Andy
@srv: Check this out. ok-cleek.com/blogs/?page_id=19041
BillinGlendaleCA
@rikyrah: I think that the few Trump tax returns that have seen the light of day show he paid 0, zilch.
Mnemosyne
@Trollhattan:
I’m assuming the majority of them are conservatives trying to diffuse the Democratic vote so the November election is a Democrat vs a Republican and not the top two Democrats. If the “jungle primary” that CA conservatives begged for and got ends up with 2 Democrats, I will laugh my ass off.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@WarMunchkin:
He may have one incentive not to: he’s in line to become a powerful Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee.
The job has a lot of power. He can get a lot of things done. But in 26 years in the Senate and Congress he has never shown any interest in legislation. There’s no evidence that he wants the responsibility. He’s the kid sitting in the back of the class who gets off on throwing spitballs at the teacher and disrupting the class.
Baud
Booman
lwestsd
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Thanks! (And sorry to have added to the confusion.)
Mnemosyne
Also, too, assuming Bernie is not nuts, I fully expect him and Hillary to very publicly kiss and make up on the stage of the Democratic convention after each of them says very nice things about each other. I have a feeling that may not go over well with our local He-Man Hillary Haterz Club.
Iowa Old Lady
Breathe, people. It will be all right. Sanders will endorse Clinton (albeit after making us crazy) and she will defeat Trump. Pet the dogs and cats.
Doug R
@Corner Stone: It’s only the cursed earth voting for Drumpf. Mega-City 1 and 2 won’t.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Baud:
Wow. When you’ve lost off the rails Booman…..
Omnes Omnibus
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Hearings. He could hold hearings. John Kerry did do lot of legislating, but he used hearing well.
aimai
I think she wasn’t even referring to Bernie. Get a fucking clue: Bernie is not even in the race at this point. She was talking about Donald Trump. As for what Bernie’s fans do–fuck them if they failed to grasp the obvious lesson of 2008 and every other election: you don’t always get what you want, but if you try some time…etc..etc…etc… I am just so fucking sick of the whining and the temper tantrums. I didn’t like it when the Hillary dead enders did it and I don’t like it when the Sanders people do it and they have less excuse because its the god damned second time and he has far, far, far less of a chance than she did to take the nomination outright.
sparrow
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
I know elections bring out moron tribalists like nobody’s business, but this is not an accurate view of how Sanders has been as a politician at all.
Roger Moore
@My Truth Hurts:
This. We’re all just a bunch of kids pretending to be what we think grownups are supposed to be like and hoping nobody notices that we aren’t.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Patricia Kayden
@Starfish: Palin would have killed McCain right away so yes it would have been as apocalyptic as a Trump presidency. That woman is delusional.
@Iowa Old Lady: Amen to that.
NR
Trump is ahead of Hillary in the polling average now.
But by all means, keep jerking each other off about how horrible Bernie Sanders is.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Can’t be true, St. Ralph is pure!
Omnes Omnibus
@NR: You know that elections are done state by state, right?
ETA: Take a look at the NYT link I posted above.
aimai
@NR: Even if this were true, so what? I mean really, so what? If Trump is unstoppable why not lie back and just rearrange deck chairs on the titanic? what is your excuse for posting here? I mean–if we are wasting our time what are you doing?
Patricia Kayden
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, ain’t that a b….?
Iowa Old Lady
@NR: I assume that like the rest of us, you’re at the very least hoping the polls will change.
NR
@Omnes Omnibus: You know that the popular vote and the electoral vote almost never disagree, right?
BillinGlendaleCA
@aimai: Obviously, NR thinks the superdelegates should nominate Bernie(considering the polls in CA that might not be enough); he’s the only hope against Trump.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@sparrow: oh please. 26 years in the Senate and congress and he has passed only 1 bill. That’s it. 1 bill. A cola adjustment for vets. Yet during those 26 years he constantly runs to the nearest tee vee camera to denounce everyone for not producing more.
Punchy
Im quickly taking the “fuck it” approach. If a majority of Americans want to elect an enormous asshole with absolutely zero political and diplomatic experience over the candidate with those things in spades, then we’re good and fucked but whatevs. If a vast majority of Repubs are too partisan to vote for the welfare of the nation over tribal loyalties, they deserve to be front and center during the epic destruction of our nation.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
For that to work, they need to put up one plausible Republican candidate. When the person with the best name recognition and an (R) after his name is Ron Unz, you’re in very bad shape.
? Martin
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yeah, I’m surprised as well.
NR
@Iowa Old Lady: I hope they do, but I don’t see much reason to believe they will.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve been a veggie for a number of years now so I will definitely need to ease in to the solid food of the burger variety.
Thanks everyone for the well wishes. Had a complication and needed up really anemic. I’m fine now though.
BillinGlendaleCA
@NR: Polls in May? Presidents Mondale and Dukakis would like a word with you.
Ampersand
I supported Bernie for quite a while, but I think that he’s made some mistakes, and taken some things too far. (Not ideologically, but in terms of strategy.) Of the candidates that are realistically available to us, Hillary is the better general election candidate, so it’s time to move on. I’m ready to focus on beating Trump.
Baud
@Punchy:
As I found out the hard way, most Democrats don’t.
aimai
@Smiling Mortician: Beautifully put.
OT but not OT the Boston Globe had a stupid, stupid, little cartoon today that was meant, I suppose. to liven up a dull political season. It was a glum picture of Hillary surrounded by her “Cabinet” which was entirely composed of various celebrity figures who have endorsed her, among them Kim Kardashian and Snoop Dogg, and Lena Dunham. Next week they will “do trump” apparently and no doubt the larffs will be zesty. But what struck me dumb with rage was the fact that the Press simply can’t admit publicly how absurdly one sided the entire thing is. Hillary Clinton is going to appoint a cabinet filled with serious, grown up (!) leaders and public figures, academics, scholars, and etc… Trump is not. But if you put that out there right now the assumption is that the voting public doesn’t care, they’d rather be amused and gawk at a spectacle than consider the actual ramifications of electing Trump over Hillary.
jl
@philadelphialawyer: HRC was threatening delegate challenges in 2008. So, far this is all BS in the big scheme of things. If you want to obsess over it, that is your business. We;ll have to wait and see what Sanders does at the convention.
NR
@BillinGlendaleCA: Anyone but Hillary, really. I’d even take Biden at this point, and I was not a fan of what he said about needing to work with Republicans more. But stopping Trump is the most important thing.
aimai
@NR: That is not because the popular vote is produced by a random sample of all votes, lying evenly spread across all states. You do know that we vote by state, right? And that some states have very large populations and others very small populations?
Lamh36
Wow…bless him and his son for telling their story.
https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/status/734884905130295296
posted from my IPhone
BillinGlendaleCA
@NR: Anyone but Hillary, why?
NR
@BillinGlendaleCA: Because she is probably the only candidate in the whole country who could possibly lose to Trump.
eemom
what happened to my link/comment??
eta: nm. posted on the wrong thread.
BillinGlendaleCA
@NR: I could name a few others.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: Yay, you! Today is for celebrating! Can we also celebrate that you have health insurance? I don’t recall you thinking yours is the greatest, but it beats the hell out of what you had before. Thanks, Obama!
dr. bloor
@BillinGlendaleCA: If they make a movie about Nader, Johnny Depp is the shoo-in for the lead. Only an actor who mastered the Mad Hatter, Sweeney Todd, and Jack Sparrow would be fit for the part.
Omnes Omnibus
Dear god.
Smiling Mortician
@aimai: Back atcha.
Major Major Major Major
@Lamh36: Nice!
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: He is poised to make a positive contribution to the platform.
WaterGirl
@Lamh36:
Then your best bet is to live with the problem until then (sorry, I’m sure it’s frustrating) and see if you still have the problem with the new ISP.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Quite.
dr. bloor
@Omnes Omnibus: Cornel West has reduced himself to an SNL-lite version of his previous self. Raging narcissism, terminal drop, or both.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
It’s pretty darn fantastic to have insurance! My rates went down this year, too!
It turns out that with silver cost sharing I don’t have to pay the full co-insurance/deductible amount.
Thanks Obama!
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thank FSM only wonks pay attention to the platform.
Punchy
@NR: I love the circular logic here. “I wont support Hillary because she may lose to Trump, but if she loses to Trump it’s due to a lack of support”.
I heard Jill Stein needs peeps to do some GOTV….
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: No one pays attention to the platform, well, except the Republican opposition.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Maybe not, but there will be antics.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Capering too? Maybe even a frolic or two?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Punchy: Take two Bernies and call me in the morning.
(I’m not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once; I think, there may have been drinking involved.)
eclare
@Omnes Omnibus: He needs to be told to STFU. Now, in all caps.
rikyrah
@Lamh36:
Just dust in the eyes. Just dust.?
Omnes Omnibus
@eclare: HEY CORNEL! STFU! NOW!
There you go. I am not sure it will help.
NR
@Punchy: I never said I won’t support Hillary. I will vote for her, but it will be with the same sinking feeling that I had when I voted for Kerry in 2004.
Keith G
@Betty Cracker:
Depends on repetition, intensity, and duration.
Everyone in politics “was robbed” at one point or another. That is part of the way the “Hoomin” mind works.
If Hillary and her people are good, they got this. If she/they can’t think their way through this, than maybe she ought not be allowed to camp out in the Oval Office.
Bernie and any amount of the Disaffected are not the Death Star for friggin sakes. So even if Bernie does go bad, a competent operation can deal with this. Is team HRC competent? I bet so. Things just seem more wrought due to the
24 hour1440 minute Twitter-Blast News Cycle Rodeo.Frank Wilhoit
The “evidence of impending disaster” is not evidence. It is a gut feeling that Sen. Sanders(*) is going to become increasingly unhinged. Guts are not very respectable things, but sometimes they make safe predictions. Time will show.
(*) In this context, a metonymy for the bubble universe composed of the candidate, his minders, his followers, and a handful of provocateurs.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@eclare:
Yes, he should, by Bernie fucking Sanders, which Bernie fucking Sanders will never ever do because Bernie’s not a leader, he’s a shit stirring fraud and a coward who “calls for” all kinds of shit that he hopes other people will do. Which if they do what he calls for, he’ll criticize as not enough or that it’s accomplished the wrong way. Just ask Barney Frank. I just can’t wait til he’s a footnote in history.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: There will definitely be flouncing.
eclare
@Omnes Omnibus: Hahaha!!!!! Thanks!
Punchy
@NR: Kerry was a knucklehead, with zero personality and charisma. And yet he lost (or “lost”, depending on your stance) a single state by very little to lose to La Chimpo.
If a guy with that devoid of personality can get that close, I cannot see how Clinton wouldnt get those extra needed votes (from Latinos alone) to win.
My fear is that it will be close enough for Trump to sue every single swing stats’s voting counts, and with nearly all of them held by the GOP, the chance for theft and chicanery is high.
NR
@Punchy:
Hillary Clinton is a much worse candidate than Kerry. Compare their favorability ratings at this point in the election and it’s not even close.
Iowa Old Lady
@NR: What is it you want to have happen, NR? What are you advocating for here?
Egilsson
@WarMunchkin:
Exactly – a significant faction of the Sanders crew are basically the Tea Party of the left – in nature, tactics and disposition. They heckle lifetime progressives as “sell outs” and “losers ” or whores to wallstreet- even over marginal and debateable policy points. Disagreement is heresy and cannot be respectfully tolerated. They have as much contempt for democrats as republicans.
I think the democratic leadership would be wise to keep tight rein and not make concessions.
I think they could poison the democrats
Matt McIrvin
@Major Major Major Major: On Facebook right now, what I’m seeing is Sanders supporters admitting that Sanders isn’t going to take the nomination, or saying that Clinton would be in some ways an adequate nominee, and getting dogpiled by other Sanders supporters who berate them in long rants for their treason against the Bern.
Omnes Omnibus
@Iowa Old Lady: Nothing. Whatever is happening is wrong. The grass is greener on the other side. This impossible thing is what we must choose. NR has ever been thus.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
wow, he dug down deep and surpassed my minimum high regard for him. What a pathetic human being. And fuck that narcissistic megalomaniac Sanders for such (to stick somewhat to the topic) a childish gesture in nominating him to the platform committee
ETA: maybe if Clinton prints out a golden ticket to the inauguration platform, she’ll become “Sister Hillary”
NR
@Iowa Old Lady: People could wake up to the fact that we have serious problems that circlejerking over how awful Bernie Sanders is isn’t going to solve, for a start.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: Brother Cornel is a goddamned idiot.
aimai
@Omnes Omnibus: And this asshole is who Bernie asked to represent him at the DNC?
Omnes Omnibus
@aimai: That appears to be the case. My gob is well and truly smacked, but there it is.
J R in WV
@Lamh36:
For the mean-time, just get a cat-5 or cat-6 cable, and plug in with the wire.
I bought a new laptop, the wireless card won’t work with Linux, so I’m using a wire, and leaving it at home, plugged in. It’s a 50 foot cable, so it is mobile around the main part of the house….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@aimai: Bernie Sanders was very impressed with Cornel West’s stance on Bernie Sanders
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: He was down on Obama too, IIRC.
PsiFighter37
1) Fuck Bernie
2) Fuck Bernie for putting Cornel West on the DNC. That self-promoting asshole does not deserve to be writing the platform of the Democratic Party.
3) Fuck Bernie for saying he wants to have a say over the Cabinet. You know how you get a say? You become the president by winning the election (which he’s not), or by voting on confirmations in the Senate (which is what he’ll be back to doing soon enough).
4) Goddamn pretentious asshole
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: And very “Kill the Bill” on the ACA.
aimai
@Keith G: Oh for fuck’s sake I am so sick and tired of the bizarre assertions that anything that Bernie does is proof that Hillary shouldn’t be in the Oval Office. yes: Bernie and Trump can do tremendous damage to this country and no, HIllary may not be able to stop them, severally or singly. This isn’t proof that Hillary isn’t a good candidate, or not a nice person, or not a skilled politician. Its proof that the whole fucking country is stark staring mad and tons of voters are morons. All the skill in the world isn’t going to swing Bernie’s Idiots all the way behind Hillary Clinton anymore than she can skillfully mend the partisan divide with the Republicans. Obama couldn’t make the Republicans stop trying to repeal the ACA and yet we acknowledge he’s been a damned good President. I am just so tired of people on the internet making Hillary responsible to clean up Bernie’s broken wreckage of a campaign and make it ok for him to finally admit he’s been beaten.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: Never understood that. Bill’s an ok dude in my book.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Bernie is a petty narcissistic asshole who may be more temperamentally unsuitable for the presidency than Trump. The thought of these two tax dodging unaccomplished petty narcissistic fuckwits vying over which one can tear up Obama’s legacy by the roots makes me want to get a rocket launcher.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Jesus. Not Sacramento’s finest export.
Betty Cracker
@NR: WTF does that even mean? Good Christ, it’s a top 10,000 blog, not the DNC headquarters you’re besieging with your endless negativity, Stillwell Angel.
Baud
@aimai:
Brother Cornell aside, most minorities seem to have their head on straight. Maybe because they can’t afford to play games.
Patricia Kayden
@Splitting Image: Yep. I assume most of the Bernie or Bust folks were never going to vote for Clinton anyways so they may not be much of a loss. I suppose they will drift back to their Republican/Libertarian roots once Sanders concedes.
The Latino surge in voting registrations should more than make up for any Bernie or Bust holdouts.
dr. bloor
@Iowa Old Lady: Nothing. S/he’s a troll, possibly bought and paid for, maybe just an avocation. There’s no goal line for nihilists.
NR
@aimai: You’re absolutely right. Remember in 2008, when right after Obama won the nomination, he went back to Chicago for six months and said “Okay Hillary, it’s your job to put me in the White House. Go to it?” Those were good times.
NR
@Betty Cracker: But you’ll always be top 10,000 in my heart, Betty.
Jinchi
You maybe in the minority here, but you’re hardly alone. Everytime I read one of these threads, I wonder what election the rest have been watching. The Sanders/Clinton rivalry has been the most laid-back, genteel campaign I’ve ever seen.
Clinton will wrap up the nomination in about two weeks. She can afford to let it play out. Sanders’ voters will fall in behind her just about the same time that her most fervent supporters stop referring to them as ignorant, self-defeating, self righteousness, children.
hueyplong
In the upcoming nastiness, Sanders supporters who are even vaguely Democrats will vote for HRC if the polling is reasonably close. Those who go the other way in that circumstance would not be bought by polite flattery. Accordingly, I do not say “fk Bernie” because doing so would evince a level of concern/care that I do not possess.
Patricia Kayden
@NR: ??? Huh?
What makes you think Secretary Clinton won’t campaign hard during the general election season? She’s campaigning very hard now. Hence her win.
Roger Moore
@Patricia Kayden:
He’s deliberately misinterpreting what people are saying. DNFTMFT.
NR
@Patricia Kayden: I was speaking in response to a rather petulant comment saying that unity is Bernie’s responsibility.
It’s the winner’s job to unify the party. If Hillary can’t do that, it’s on her.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
This write up is a bit vague for my taste, I would have liked to see polling numbers on specific issues
but even as a Bernie! Revolution skeptic pretty mch from the start, this surprised me
on health care for instance, I thought polling showed younger people favored, or at least weren’t hostile to, greater government spending
Steeplejack
@Shana:
Yeah, no. Here’s the link to the Wooster vs. Trump piece.
Keith G
@aimai:
Someone might be asserting that. I am not.
You are certainly entitled to that belief. I feel differently.
joel hanes
@Iowa Old Lady:
What is it you want to have happen, NR?
Everybody to drop their petty conversatins and pay attention to NR.
Bob In Portland
That’s going to get me to vote for H. Clinton, telling me that because I support Sanders I’m not a grownup.
The Democratic Party is not the end in and of itself. The Democratic Party used to be the means for working class people to better their lives. Now that it doesn’t there is no reason to support it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
How can you even stand yourself? I wanted to really like Bernie at the beginning of this whole process, and then so many of his supporters turned out to be the most whiny privileged douchebros the world has ever seen. The more Bernie complained about how every loss was a conspiracy against him, the more the whiny entitled passive aggressive special snowflake sideline snipers all came to the yard to complain about being cheated out of their privileged entitlement. Obama played by the same rules as Sanders, won, and didn’t whine once. Sanders can’t shine PBO’s shoes, and Bernie and Cornel West know this. That’s all this is about – mediocre males acting out against Obama, and I assume that’s what’s fueling this with all of his dead enders like you.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Thank You.
dollared
@Keith G: This. And it will all turn out alright. With or without the world saving passion of the Balloon Juice Hillbots.
chopper
@Betty Cracker:
Decades from now, long after hilz’s two terms in the WH, these dudes will still be whining about “her likability ratings in May 2016”.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I got your back, guy.
dollared
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Maybe people aren’t persuaded by your dispassionate, logical analysis and elegant, thoughtful proofs with the mountains of well organized and presented evidence.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@dollared:
Sanders and his whiny supporters are beyond my contempt. It’s not an argument to make, it’s a fact.
chopper
@NR:
ain’t that the truth. sanders is going to cough up a crappy lukewarm endorsement, slouch back to vermont and drop out of the democratic party. it’s gonna be on everybody else to sweep up the goddamn mess.
BillinGlendaleCA
@NR: You can’t push a chain, it’s not all on Hillary. Hillary’s campaign can reach out and welcome Bernie’s supporters, that’s all she can do. The rest is for Bernie to follow her example 8 years ago.
trollhattan
@efgoldman:
Still say it’s a wingnut doing a passable purity troll impression. Theory the second: sock puppet for the long-name guy.
burnspbesq
@Betty Cracker:
I think so. I’m looking forward to voting for her, twice.
joel hanes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Capering too?
POZZO
He used to dance the farandole, the fling, the brawl, the jig, the fandango and even the hornpipe. He capered. For joy. Now that’s the best he can do. Do you know what he calls it?
ESTRAGON
The Scapegoat’s Agony.
VLADIMIR
The Hard Stool.
POZZO
The Net. He thinks he’s entangled in a net.
philadelphialawyer
@jl: Yeah, no, I’m not “obsessing” over it. I just think the situations are not the same. I can disagree with a comment without there being any OCD involved, but thanks anyway.
Hillary was (as she is this go around too) “the Establishment” candidate. There was never any chance that she was going to “burn it down.” Also, Hillary was young enough the last go ’round to care about not screwing up her chances in eight years. Bernie is not a Dem, this is his last presidential rodeo, and, despite any superficial similarities, as the total outsider (way more so than Obama, in terms of the Dem party), to Hillary ’08, he does have some possible motive for burning it all down. So, no, to me, just saying, “Well, Hillary threatened a credential challenge” in
08 does not make that equal to the endless Bernie ’16 “unfair process” shitstorm. But YMMV.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: First saw that as “I got your back, guv” and was intrigued, because people don’t use “guv’nor” enough in casual speech. I thought you were bucking a sorry trend, but now I see it’s just my wine-soaked eyeballs playing tricks. Too bad. You coulda been a trend-setter.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m going to have to make you my speechwriter.
chopper
@trollhattan:
whatever it is, it’s got the market cornered on preciousness.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Gin & Tonic: Baud is a trend-setter, well he does sit alot.
NR
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Actually there are lots of women who support Sanders, as well as men who like Obama, but hey, whatever makes you feel warm, fuzzy, and special, I guess.
divF
@Major Major Major Major:
When Florenz Ziegfeld was once asked about how his next show would differ from his earlier ones, he was supposed to have answered “more girls, more feathers, and more stairs”.
Can the Democratic platform have more feathers?
Racer X
@philadelphialawyer:
Where did the May 1st deadline come from? It is not in the Rules of the 2016 Nevada State Democratic Convention. All that document says: “All delegates and alternates to the state convention must be registered Democrats residing in the county for which they are representing at the convention.”
John Oliver said that the May 1st deadline was set after May 1st had already passed. Does anyone know?
I think it is an important detail.
NR
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: The only “fact” is how unhinged you sound. Everything else is your opinion of Sanders and his supporters, driven by the irrational hatred you have for him/them. And that’s your problem, no one else’s.
philadelphialawyer
@Keith G: Right. It is somehow on Hillary to walk back Bernie’s bullshit for him. Funny, cuz in 08 it was on her to walk back her own much less bullshitty bullshit. I guess it is always on her. Woman must be the peacemaker. No misogyny here, though.
amk
Dan Pfeiffer
NR
@chopper: I too think that the best time to count chickens is before they hatch.
jl
@philadelphialawyer: when I use the word ‘obsess’ I am not implying OCD or anything clinical. All healthy people obsess on something sometime in their lives, sooner or later.
I think chances of HRC win are good. Trump and GOP should be getting one of their biggest bounces now relative to Dems, and it is very small compared to 2008, when Obama spent some weeks straight out beaten in the polls. I have seen definite signs Sanders is winding it down, but understand that Sanders thinks it is best for the Democrats in the general election if he shakes things up a little. I think to some extent that is true. HRC should yell around that she is going to shake things up in some way to benefit of poor, working and middle class, in addition to preserving Obama accomplishments. But I am not sure Sanders will have, shall we say, delicate enough touch about it. We have to hope for the best.
If Sanders is telling the truth that he will campaign against GOP seven days a week during the general, that is good thing, and no one should give him an excuse not to. I hope he keeps his word. I think at least some reforms he wants for Dems are a good thing, not sure now is the best time to make a big fuss about it. Better to concentrate on winning the general and adding some rebelliousness to Hillary.
BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman: I think you’ve hanging with the grand-kid too much.
amk
@Keith G:
Yeah, just like Obama has to somehow deal with the recalcitrant and treasonous gop, right?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
How long will it take for Bernie to do the right thing – the thing that shows us he understands he’s got to take responsibility for landing this thing, and what’s at stake for anyone but him? You’re such a fan, when and how do you think he will demonstrate that he’s pivoting towards the team? After he loses California? After he loses NJ? Before he gets totally humiliated in DC? I’m sick of waiting for signs of leadership – he’s just been petulant.
dollared
@philadelphialawyer: Really? Hillary’s obligation to run her own election campaign successfully is – misogyny? Please explain. I kind of thought we hired a president to, you know, run things. Hopefully successfully.
A Ghost To Most
@NR:
Oh look! One-trick pony is performing its one trick again!
JPL
@NR: Not true.. My only comment for months was that I would support the democratic nominee. Sanders lack of transparency on his taxes and now his demand to help choose cabinet members, changes that. He’s gone from a guy with good ideas to an egotist.
Gin & Tonic
Apparent America-haters in Hanoi.
chopper
@A Ghost To Most:
but what if everything really is horrible? then eeyore here will get the last sob.
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m becoming increasingly curious about who actually wrote all those smart, perceptive books that were credited to Cornel West.
eclare
@Gin & Tonic: Saw that, can he please be prez for life?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Gin & Tonic:
Everywhere in the world he goes, the crowds are all full of smiles like that. He’s closing a loop on our history there, with soft power and hard power. He completely gets symbolism and respects the cultures he visits. Good grief, I can’t stand to see him go.
nellcote
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
West hates PBO. It’s clearly a big Fuck You to Obama.
joel hanes
@Omnes Omnibus:
capering
NICK
What’s the birds-eye lowdown on this caper? Whatever that means …
A Ghost To Most
@chopper:
NR is singularly obsessed with the Hillarbeast and her “unfavorables”. I think election day , when HRC crushes tRump, will be a critical mental health day for NR.
columbusqueen
@srv: Fuck you, Bernie.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@A Ghost To Most: Not really on topic, but Colbert’s first show after Obama’s reelection was one of my favorite bits of TeeVee ever.
A Ghost To Most
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Great man, great president. Tough act to follow.
JPL
@Gin & Tonic: I love that photo…
A Ghost To Most
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I iz unaware. Was it about denial on the part of the GOP math whizzes?
philadelphialawyer
@Racer X: Well, I don’t. The rules said you had to be a registered Democrat. May 1, for a May 14 convention, seems like an appropriate cutoff date. Especially considering that the caucus was in February. And I have seen nothing to indicate the rule was any different in prior conventions.
In any event, only eight of the sixty four disqualified delegates even bothered to contest the issue. So it is just speculation that the deadline was the key factor. And one of those later admitted online that he has switched his registration to “Independent” in protest after the NY primary (I guess because Bernie’s “home town” of Brooklyn, where he hasn’t lived for thirty years, purged its voters rolls. Never mind that Brooklyn went for Hillary anyway.) And had the gall to complain about it, and blame the party for wasting his precious snowflake time!
And, of course, all of this would have been moot if the 400 missing Sanders delegates had simply shown up.
So, no, the claim of unfairness is still ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is Sanders himself repeating it. And worst of all is him doing in the context of his “But” apology in a situation where death threats and so on were made.
Keith G
@philadelphialawyer:
More often than not, presidential candidates do not get the campaign that they dreamed of. Just as presidents do not usually get to have the presidential term that they dreamed they would lead..
Shit goes bad.
Political leaders who are considered the best of their generation find ways to succeed against the toughest trials.
I happen to be more confident about Hillary’s abilities then some here seem to be – even though they love tossing a fair amount of vitriol the other direction. Well, we all need a hobby, I guess.
Anyway, the next 8 weeks might be very challenging for the Hillary Team. I look forward to seeing how she shows us that she is capable of being the leader that I voted for.
Anyway, philadelphialawyer, you are going to have a ring-side seat. Cheers.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@A Ghost To Most:
This election is about solidifying that legacy. PBO has been not only FDR, but Kennedy. When I was a little girl in the 60s, my uncle who was a physicist at MIT traveled all over the world because he worked on particle accelerators, and brought us back coins and little dolls and things from the most exotic places. Wherever he went, he said, protected in a piece of clear plastic, was a picture of President Kennedy carefully taped or tacked on a shopkeeper’s wall. It was a symbol of hope to them. Obama is that guy again, and it’s hugely important that all that hard work and attention be continued, hence Hillary’s success with Democrats and Obama’s winning coalition.
patroclus
@Gin & Tonic: Wow – they look fairly pleased to see him!
Davebo
263 comments I haven’t read yet, I feel I already get the gist of the discussion! Total vote counts don’t count Caucus voters (or at least those in Caucus’ Sanders won). The fact that a delegate didn’t bother to show up for a state convention shouldn’t disqualify them from casting their vote! State’s that Sanders lost don’t really count anyway because of.. things. Super delegates are un-democratic unless they support the loser of the primary. Then some stuff about money laundering by folks who don’t understand the term, inevitable indictments, speech transcripts and corporate contributions. In other words, Hail Mary’s. Where’s Doug Flutie when you need him amirite?
Now for the opposite side. Well… Clinton is winning by an overwhelming margin that no reasonable person could possibly believe Bernie can overcome in a proportionally allocated primary system.
Save me an hour and let me know if I missed anything. Thanks! You’re all jewels each and every one!
Davebo
@Gin & Tonic: I’m seeing at least a 5 to 1 iPhone over Android advantage there.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Uncle Cosmo
@srv: I intend to ask the driver of the speeding bus that’s going to run over you to back up & make sure the job is done properly. IOW, FOAD.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I am a wolf. No, wait, shit, maybe that is the result of my latest spirit animal online quiz? Fuck if I know… Peridot?
gwangung
Meh. Sanders us a minor leaguer who’s lucked on to a nut he can chew on. And didn’t have the chops to take advantage of it.
It’s annoying and more than a little stupid now, but he’ll probably hang on to flail some more. Gotta put up with amateur hour for just a bit more.
Davebo
@efgoldman: So that would make you related to the Romulans right?
Uncle Cosmo
@Boob In Putinland: And yet another fucking arsehole heard from. Shame that runaway bus hasn’t gotten you in its crosshairs yet.
Joel
@NR: nope
Omnes Omnibus
@srv: Since no one takes you seriously, nope. Look, I get what you are doing. I admire your devotion to your art. The rest of us have to deal with life.
eemom
Things are getting out of hand.
Omnes Omnibus
@srv: You do shift work?
TriassicSands
Yes, we should and I am hopeful that Hillary will accept victory with graciousness. However, this is the kind of thing I always worry about with Clinton. She’ll blow the initial move and eventually get it right after unnecessary damage has been done.
Note: I caucused for Bernie back before his Daily News fiasco and some of his unfortunate behavior in the campaign. Today, I “voted” for Clinton in a semi-meaningless primary in Washington State. The delegates were allocated in the caucuses. Today’s Democratic primary was a beauty contest, and since I want Bernie to cool it, I went ahead and voted for HRC. Enthusiastically? Nope. Perhaps, if there are other voters who have become somewhat disillusioned with Sanders and they cast their votes for Clinton, it will send a message to Sanders. After all, he won the caucuses easily, but if the primary results were very close (or better if Clinton beat Sanders) it would say something about his continued candidacy. Since he can’t beat Clinton (legitimately), Sanders is no longer relevant to me, except in his willingness to help beat Trump, which is all that really matters at this point.
AnotherBruce
Ruh roh
Applejinx
@Omnes Omnibus: Trump. Donald TRUMP is an ‘authentic human being’? D:
Come the fuck on, Cornel. The brother’s on crack. I guess it’s about looking at the other people Bernie gets to name to the convention committee, because Cornel is purely a reminder of ‘this is how bad I can fuck with your system’, there as a provocation (and hopefully a rubber-stamp on whatever Bernie does seriously want to get done there). He’s Caligula’s horse, there is nothing useful he can bring if he’s all ‘Bernie and Trump are authentic human beings’.
yellowdog
@jl: He just said the convention is going to be ‘messy’. And that is after he got his people on the platform committee. No, he is definitely not coming around.
LanceThruster
Well…at least the accusations of the Sanders campaign merely being a bird dog for Hillary doesn’t hold up.
Hope Bernie pulls it out…for all our sake.
Brachiator
@srv:
Wow, that’s some serious stalker level post archaeology you’ve done there.
And all it demonstrates is the fact that primaries are often very contentious, but in the end, everybody calms the fuck down and comes up with accommodations and compromises.