We are serious people here, or at least serious political junkies, so it’s probably worth discussing the latest news about picking the Democratic party platform committee. (The rights to which are either “fools gold” if you believe Ed Kilgore, or “how Hillary and Bernie will make peace” if you listen to Jim Newell.) Here’s Politico‘s report:
… While DNC rules allow the chair to pick all 15 members of the national convention drafting committee, the organization struck a deal with the two campaigns so that Hillary Clinton will pick six members, Sanders will pick five, and DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz will appoint four, party officials confirmed…
Consultations between the DNC and the two campaigns were finalized last week and Wasserman Schultz began calling appointees over the weekend, a Democratic party official with knowledge of the process told POLITICO. The appointments to the drafting committee are being made from lists of about a dozen suggested by each campaign.
Rep. Elijah Cummings will serve as chairman of the committee and Andrew Grossman, former director of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, will serve as platform executive director, the convention committee said Monday.
Sanders’ picks for the committee were: Arab-American Institute President James Zogby; Cornel West; Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison; Deborah Parker, an activist on Native American rights; and Bill McKibben, an activist on environmental issues…
Clinton named Center for American Progress president Neera Tanden, former State Department official Wendy Sherman, Rep. Luis Gutierrez, former White House Energy and Climate Change Policy director Carol Browner, Ohio state Rep. Alicia Reece, and the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees union’s Paul Booth.
The committee also includes two non-voting members, one from each campaign. The Sanders team picked policy adviser Warren Gunnels alongside Maya Harris, who serves as senior policy adviser for Clinton.
Most of the discussion I’ve seen on my center-leftish rounds has concerned Cornel West, who is not one of President Obama’s biggest fans. (I think Rep. Cummings has more than enough experience with angry agitators to handle Dr. West.) It’s certainly an interesting and diverse bunch — a good showcase for both small- and big-D Democratic values.
Your thoughts?
The Blog Dahlia
Oh for crying out diddly.
Corner Stone
My thoughts are that they should crush their enemies, see them driven before them and hear the lamentation of their women.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
says a lot, to me, about Sanders’s “Revolution!” that he seems more interested in the platform committee– and being gratuitously obnoxious to Barack Obama– than in the Congress
benw
The Sanders team demands rewriting everything while the Hillary team refuses to make more than minor punctuation changes in the already existing platform. Eventually chairs are brandished until everyone finally decides to just chill out and let Obama write the thing.
amk
platform committee – the words 99.9999% of voters don’t give a fuck about.
germy
Anyone else here a fan of the Panda Cheese commercials? Whenever someone “says no” to Panda Cheese, an actual panda appears and creates mayhem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYz3sl0LEA4
somewhat relevant to the topic?
geg6
Fuck Cornel West and fuck Bernie Sanders for appointing him. Unfuckingbelievable.
The Thin Black Duke
Cornel West?
The guy who called Trump “authentic”?
Way to go, Bernie. He’s welcomed inside the big tent and he responds by unzipping his fly and taking a piss on the legs of his hosts.
Further evidence that Sanders would have been a lousy President. There is a nastiness in the man that is quite distasteful.
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: The soccer ball was perfect. As was the little kick at the overturned groceries.
germy
@Omnes Omnibus: The timing is exquisite. His little hesitation before disconnecting the patient’s IV.
And the obsessive way he adjusts the product just so at the end of every commercial.
dr. bloor
@geg6: My reaction was identical to Betty’s. Elijah Cummings has pieces of pikers like West in his stool every morning.
germy
@srv: Will Sarah Palin be speaking at the GOP convention?
I think she said she’s available for the VP slot.
O. Felix Culpa
@amk: Which is exactly why it’s a smart move to be generous to Bernie on platform committee picks. He chalks up a “win” which, in the real world, means nothing.
Renie
I guess at this point we are not going to see Sanders’s tax returns. Wonder what he is hiding that made him not want to release them. Or maybe Jane is still trying to download them from TurboTax.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@geg6:
Co-sign. Whiny Ass Titty Baby narcissists whose common purpose is resentment against President Obama, who showed them both up to be completely mediocre.
germy
Saw an interview with Trump. The lady who is syndicated by Sinclair Broadcasting. I can’t remember her name (she’s the one who claimed she was being hacked by the dems, but it turned out she had a sticky “enter” key?)
She asked Trump what advice he gives his kids. He replied “I tell them avoid drugs and alcohol.”
Trump himself doesn’t drink. But doesn’t he sell a brand of super premium vodka?
Frankensteinbeck
West is certainly an idiotic and offensive pick, but he’s one guy on a committee where Sanders’ whole group could be bomb throwers and totally outvoted, and… I guess I lost all my respect for Sanders after Nevada.
Cacti
Sanders chooses the only public figure to call the POTUS a n*gger.
Classy, Bern. Really.
Fair Economist
I think it’s telling that after running a campaign on single-payer healthcare and breaking up big banks, Bernie picked a grand total of zero health care experts and zero economic experts.
max
It’s certainly an interesting and diverse bunch — a good showcase for both small- and big-D Democratic values.
I doubt Cornel will be a big deal either way. It looks like a good group for hashing things out. Which is what they’re supposed to do.
max
[‘I like the diversity.’]
Mike J
@germy:
And it’s not actually kosher for passover.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: it was not super premium last time I saw it in… 2007? I was on acid when we drank it so I can’t really comment on the flavor.
germy
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/what-happened-at-burlington-college/482973/
redshirt
I’m bummed Susan Sarandon didn’t get the gig.
Aardvark Cheeselog
I was googling the various picks that I didn’t recognize, and noticed that 1) Deborah Parker has a GoFundMe page to finance her trip to the Convention, and 2) Paul Booth is a tattoo artist, or sax player, or something. The only info I could find on the AFSCME guy was this web page at what appears to be a conspiracy wiki, and which makes him seem like an OK guy to me.
Mike J
@redshirt:
He didn’t want any more icky girls.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
No one to represent unions.
The Blog Dahlia
@germy:
You’d figure with how she blew up Burlington College so completely she’d have an MBA from Liberty or Bob Jones or something.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@redshirt: She’s too busy redecorating her villa on the French Riviera. Plus it’s equestrian season.
Unabogie
@Fair Economist: Bernie doesn’t seem to place much stock in knowing what he’s talking about.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike J: He could have gone with Tim Robbins instead.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Fair Economist:
This. Like Trump, his campaign devolved into having nothing to do with policy, just ego. Interesting that both refuse to release their tax returns, because it would reveal the fraud.
hovercraft
Using Cornell West as a surrogate to the black community was one of BS’s biggest tactical errors. His hatred for BO meant that the candidate he was advocating for he alienated his audience. Good job Bernie.
And fuck BS and CW.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Fair Economist: Sanders has raised $207 million dollars and not one person was hired for any kind of policy (health care, economics, foreign, legal, etc.).
I saw an interview were he was asked for names of people he would consider appointing to the Supreme Court if became President and he had no idea – not a single name.
germy
@The Blog Dahlia: I googled Union Institute, and one of the google suggestions was “Union Institute Diploma Mill?”
I see Gary Null is an alumni.
germy
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Not releasing the tax returns: Is it because Trump is embarrassed that he has less money than he says, and Sanders is embarrassed because he has more money than he says?
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: How do trolls reproduce anyway? Wait, don’t answer that – I don’t want to know.
germy
@efgoldman: I can’t imagine Trump picking Palin. And Christie I think would be Attorney General. I’m guessing he’ll pick some retired military general?
Mike J
@efgoldman: srv was from his mother’s womb untimely ripped
germy
@efgoldman:
In a classy plastic bottle, so it doesn’t break if you drop it while drinking and driving.
Mike J
@germy: McCain probably won’t be doing anything after his primary. Would certainly make the media swoon.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Brain slugs.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike J: Any comparison between MacDuff and srv is a libel of the fictional dude.
Miss Bianca
@Mike J: I don’t see him as MacDuff, really. MacDuffer, perhaps.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike J: i hope Ann Kilpatrick has enough money to troll McCain’s primary like Claire McCaskill did
Unabogie
@hovercraft: West has said some truly hateful things about Obama.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Fair Economist: Oooh.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: I’m excited for my trip to the Brain Slug Planet for Memorial Day. The tourism bureau said not to bring any hats?
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: I am not sure how the biology works, but I won’t reject your theory out of hand.
@Major Major Major Major: How are they on earbuds?
The Thin Black Duke
@Unabogie: Thankfully, more white people listen to Cornel West than black people do.
Major Major Major Major
Something I saw on mcsweeney’s the other day.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: M4, you’re killing it, too! Why is everyone so damn funny tonight? Not that I’m complaining.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Also, shave your head beforehand!
Matt McIrvin
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Ellison and McKibben are not bad choices, though I don’t agree with McKibben about everything.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Memes.
divF
@Omnes Omnibus: Fission.
PhoenixRising
Ok so let me get this straight: This platform committee includes both Bill McKibben and Carol Browner, and all I’m hearing is about what a putz Cornel West is?
I’m out. Wake me when the Democrats have come to our senses.
WarMunchkin
@Cacti: Strictly speaking, Larry Wilmore.
Amir Khalid
Enlighten me, please: how important is the party platform, anyway? Will Hillary actually be campaigning on it? Or will Congressional, state and local candidates do so?
Matt McIrvin
It does occur to me that Sanders’ list has far more celebrity power than Clinton’s: I think I’ve heard of four of Sanders’ five choices and only one of Clinton’s (Browner).
But aside from West, Sanders’ picks don’t strike me as bad.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PhoenixRising: good point
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Jinx.
@PhoenixRising: Fair enough.
PhoenixRising
@The Thin Black Duke: Pretty sure no one listens to Dr* West anymore. I’m sometimes astonished or stunned or dumbfounded by him, but that’s not the same as ‘listening’ as such.
*I had the privilege of an internship that required me to interview him on incarceration policies toward immigrant youth…twice…and he was one of the smartest people I had ever met in 1994. My view is that he’s not getting good fluid pressure to the brain lately, not uncommon in folks his age.
The Thin Black Duke
@PhoenixRising: Maybe because this black Democrat is insulted by the choice. He’s a well-paid sock puppet who reinforces white people’s prejudices about Obama and that’s wrong.
Davebo
@Fair Economist:
Excellent point. Yet sadly, unsurprising.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@PhoenixRising:
White people… and Cornel West.
See the problem?
Matt McIrvin
@Amir Khalid: It’s usually completely unimportant.
redshirt
@Amir Khalid: It’s mostly meaningless, but slightly less meaningless than the Republican platform, since no doubt someone will try and hold the Democrats responsible for previous statements.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: MacDuff is my second favorite character in that play.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Major Major Major Major:
And one cohort finds that lifestyle noble, while the other finds it a cruel, pain-in-the-ass way to live.
JordanRules
@max: Yeah, I’m keeping an open mind with a nod to the diversity.
Cornel is full of crap but I don’t think his dynamic in this power grab is too damaging. I see worse with the career big D crappers all the time.
Could be too optimistic and missing some harrowing plot here though so we’ll see.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@germy:
Yes, in both instances, but in Bernie’s case, Jane has had her hand in the cookie jar for years and it’s catching up to her now after Burlington College. Same thing with Bernie’s FEC personal financial disclosures, which won’t be released until after the CA primary. Both Trump and Sanders are sketchy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): Pulp got it right.
hovercraft
@Unabogie:
Like I said dumb move considering BO’s approval rating with “the blacks”.
We don’t think he’s perfect but CW has been vile.
Mike J
@Matt McIrvin: And even though nobody really cares about the platform, some people will care very, very, very much. There will be a few issues about which people will hold positions very passionately, and will brook no compromise. And there are people who just as strongly, and just as honestly hold the exact opposite position. It will not mean that either side is evil or corrupt or wants to murder babies, but both sides will claim all of that and more about the other, and neither will want to agree to a watered down “this is a complicated issue” kind of statement, even though whatever is written will be forgotten immediately,
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m almost afraid to ask who your favorite is…Lady Macbeth? //
Mnemosyne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Keith Ellison is not white, despite being from Minnesota. The rest of Bernie’s picks aren’t bad, but “one of these things is not like the others” keeps echoing in my brain.
Fair Economist
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
I did not know that. That’s really awful. And even Trump could propose somebody for the Court (his sister, originally, and recently a list of nutcases courtesy of the Heritage Foundation).
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Mac himself. He made his choice and then he did what he had to do. I’ve got issues with Lady M.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: The only people that pay to party political platforms are the opposition party.
Major Major Major Major
I just finished a volunteer shift with the least pleasant Buddhist monk it has ever been my displeasure to meet.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Fascinating. Share more details!
eemom
It occurred to me today to compare Bernout’s followers to a Jonestown cult. Quite a propos, if I do say so myself.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: I figured it had to be Mac. “Issues” with Lady M, eh? Fascinating (you must imagine my best Spock voice).
Care to elaborate? ; ) (We’re doing King Lear right now, so I’m in raging Bardaholic mode. I’ve decided that I think Macbeth the superior tragedy, in many ways, tho’ I liked it less than “Lear” as a young’un.)
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mnemosyne:
Exactly. Cornel West is just a big fuck you to Obama. His other picks are legit.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: She pushed him to do it. Absent her push, he doesn’t do it. And then she couldn’t deal with the consequences. He could and did – including losing in the end.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: Speaker Gingrich.
Miss Bianca
@efgoldman: Now I’m imagining a Macbeth/Midsummer Night’s Dream mashup. Head done explode a bit. Altho’ in one of my Shakespeare classes as an undergrad, we did, for our final project, do a mash-up of the assassination scene from Julius Caesar with a scene from Merry Wives of Windsor – all I remember is Falstaff is humiliated someway – tossed in a basket or something – which we turned into a Hunting of the Stag sort of scene. It worked surprisingly well, as I recall.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Major Major Major Major: Secret Buddhist (photo)
burnspbesq
West’s role in the process is to throw bombs, obstruct, and leak. The objective is to throw jet fuel on the bonfire of Berniac butthurt on a daily basis.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
I can’t remember, have you read the Hamiltome? LMM has a funny bit in there about “Macbeth” and the line he originally wanted to use from it for “Take A Break.”
amk
Apparently, poor robert reich is feeling the bernbots’ bern.
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: The Shat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bobby Thomson: Good as camp, not good as music.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: H’mmm…I’d have to read the play again. I think I would make an argument that she doesn’t – couldn’t – push him into anything he wasn’t subconsciously prepared to do.
And would you have thought better of her if she *hadn’t* repented/gone to pieces? Would her character have seemed more estimable if she had shown obstinacy in adhering to evil – if her arc had been more like Macbeth’s? (who seems to go from squeamish to serial killer in frighteningly short order.)
Sloegin
I don’t know enough about past history and platform committee picks, is having lobbyists on the platform committee a regular thing?
pseudonymous in nc
@The Thin Black Duke:
That one tweet back in 2015 was part of some multi-tweet riffing about how “Trump is for real but not for right” with “nativistic hostility” and “unpatriotic complicity with the plutocratic corruption of our political system for over 30 yrs”. West was arguing that Trump was an authentic asshole.
I’m not a supporter of Sanders, and I don’t have much time for West, but context actually matters and re-contextualising things to fan flames doesn’t help things.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: It won’t be a retired general officer/flag officer. Or if it is it’ll be someone way, way off the reservation. But given the release, as news about a month or so ago, that GEN (ret) Keane has actually been an informal advisor to Secretary Clinton for over a decade tells me that even the most conservative politically and strategically forward leaning retired general officers/flag officers are comfortable with her. GEN Keane is a conservative/neo-Conservative. While this may give people pause about who Secretary Clinton takes defense/military advise from, if he’s comfortable providing it to her, then she’s probably okay with the flag ranks.
? Martin
Since nobody fucking cares about the platform, why should anyone fucking care about the people writing the platform that nobody fucking cares about?
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus:
I feel the same way about Grenada.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
President Obama Job Approval — Gallup — May 25, 2016
Approve…………….53%
Disapprove……….43%
———————————————————————-
George W. Bush Job Approval — Gallup — May 30, 2008
Approve…………….28%
Disapprove……….68%
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: I thought the Sharks would go to the finals. And from a Tampa perspective that may be good as the Bolts did not play well against the Blues this year.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: you mentioned something about that, and I remain quite wild to know what it was! My personal favorite line is about a character whose death is reported as having happened offstage, and someone wants to know, “how did he die” – and the messenger answers, “Nothing in his life became him like the leaving of it.” Gave me chills when I first got to read it out loud in 10th grade English, still gives me chills when I think about as a foreshadow for Macbeth’s end.
? Martin
@Adam L Silverman: I’m still holding out for Michele Fiore as VP pick. She seems perfect for Trump.
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: Joe Jackson makes a good entrance.
burnspbesq
@eemom:
It’s been done, about two weeks ago. You’ll find a link to ut in my FB timeline if you go far enough back.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m still a little nervous about Hillary and foreign policy, though she’ll be a damn sight better than Trump even if she starts 3 new wars. Though if I ever wanted to know how not to handle a war, I probably would want to talk to Kissinger, if only to do the opposite of everything he advises.
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: Its not really binding. And other than the most hard core folks, most people view it as aspirational or non-binding guidelines. Basically an idealized statement of what the party should stand for. I can say that a lot of the Tea Party types on the GOP side think that the platform is supposed to be completely binding and that’s why you will see interviews with both elected GOP officials who are affiliated with the Tea Party ideology or actual Tea Partiers complaining that the GOP isn’t following the platform and doing what it said it would do.
Short answer: its not like the party platforms in parliamentary systems.
burnspbesq
@amk:
They turned on Grampa Bob? The revolution is eating its old.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: just a total ass. Kept talking about how Tibetan monks are so rare in the west, he’s the only one I’ll ever meet. WAY better than those lame zen priests. And of course he’s a reformed drug addict and prostitute so he’s way better than me.
He must’ve come out of one of those Dharma Mills you hear about. Maybe he went to Trump Monastery.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: I wouldn’t argue with your premise. Mac was a very successful soldier in an age when that was the primary qualification for executive power. Without her push, he says probably says no. He may think about it, but the whole point of her arguments in the play is to convince him to ignore his better angels. He understands that if he does it, he becomes a tyrant. She wanted him to do it; she persuaded him to do it. Did she not understand what it meant? Didn’t she care?
The flip of the switch is simple. “In for a penny, in for a pound.”
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: It was good for your karma though!
danah gaz
I happen to like Cornel West.
Plus I’ll take him over Obama – he didn’t sell the Syrian Kurds in Rojava out to Erdogan for use of an airstrip, so yay for him.
And stuff.
Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)
@Mnemosyne:
Ellison’s district is 73.9% white and only 12.9% black. The district is D+22. Ellison has only had to really sell his message to white voters in the primaries in the past. Not sure he helps Sanders as a surrogate in poor, black-majority districts anywhere, especially since the GoTV efforts in those districts are built around Christian- many evangelical- churches. He’s more like West-lite, in that he’s a black person who white people are familiar with.
If Sanders was really trying to reach out to African-American voters, he’d be courting Tyler Perry for support.
Adam L Silverman
@? Martin: Like Florida’s AG, she’s put on too much weight as she’s aged. Trump women are never fat.
And before someone jumps on me, I do not think either woman looks unattractive at their current weights, nor am I arguing that one can’t be attractive if one is larger than a supermodel. I am simply positing my understanding of Trump’s view of women and what makes them attractive.
Omnes Omnibus
@danah gaz: Most people would disagree with you.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
I had to grab the book and my laptop (for easier typing). Here’s the note:
ETA: And for the historians, yes, the line is a reference to bear-baiting, a very unpleasant form of dogfighting.
BillinGlendaleCA
@burnspbesq: I guess they don’t like the vertically challenged.
hovercraft
@danah gaz:
Well I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Being president means making a lot of tough calls that not everyone agrees with. Purity ponies like West and Sanders get to make idealistic speeches about the choices they would make in a perfect world. When you are president you don’t get that privilege, and supporters like me get to criticize you. That’s America. So I’ll still take Obama, who on balance has done a lot more good than bad.
JordanRules
@danah gaz: What else has he done better than Obama for the world community within a particularly tricky political dynamic? Better than would-be President McCain?
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: That’s funny, because Shakespeare must have repeated it – for in King Lear, the old Duke of Gloucester says, “I am tied to the stake, and must stay the course” when Cornwall and Regan are interrogating them.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I’m not. I expect she’ll be more active than President Obama as that seems to be her natural inclination, but I fully expect that inclination to have been tempered by her experiences at State. So I think you’ll see a robust exercise of all Diplomatic, Information, and Economic power and Military power (the DIME) when she thinks its necessary. I think, based on her past positions as Secretary of State, that we would see a bit more intervention for humanitarian purposes than we have under President Obama, but that this would be closer to what Secretary Albright advocated for in the Clinton Administration rather than the Right to Protect (R2P) positions of Ambassador Power. I think that some of this difference is the result of what she observed as First Lady when her husband was faced with Rwanda and Kosovo. I’m not too worried.
And on top of all of this there are still constraints. We have policies and strategies in place that are baked into the cake. They’re vestiges of previous administrations and earlier eras. And we have domestic constraints on some things that also place hard limitations on what any President can or cannot do. Finally, she’s going to be constrained by the fact that Congress is broken and can’t produce appropriations bills. She doesn’t control the purse and this places a major constraint on what can be done even with contingency funding.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: I dont know – she’s a fascinating, fucked-up character, to be sure.
Adam L Silverman
@burnspbesq: I know Secretary Reich via correspondence. He is a class act. A gentleman, a scholar, and a clear thinker. He was very gracious with his time and input when I emailed him with an inquiry or two a long while ago.
Major Major Major Major
@danah gaz: that’s kind of a weird pick.
redshirt
@danah gaz: Heh. Welcome aboard! When do you think Sanders will wrap up the nomination?
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
Bear-baiting was very popular, so I’m not that surprised that he would use the metaphor more than once.
There’s always Bertie Wooster’s favorite Shakespeare line, a stage direction from “The Winter’s Tale”:
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: More info please! Was he Tibetan? Or not? If not, what? How old was he? Is he a real monk or a self-proclaimed monk? Details!
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: I have issues about this play due to my IB English class. My instructor saw Lady M as stronger than Mac. I have always disagreed. She broke; he didn’t.
Omnes Omnibus
@danah gaz: Aside from my disagreement, where have you been? It’s been years.
redshirt
@Mnemosyne: Bear baiting is still legal in Maine and in fact there was a vote on it in 2014 and that vote helped our idiot governor get re-elected.
I’ve broken down 3 bear baiting sites when I’ve found them in the woods, which I’m sure is actually illegal. It’s so cowardly.
Adam L Silverman
@danah gaz: He was never confronted with the decision. Its easy to argue the President sold them out if you didn’t have to make the decision. And if you were advising the President, and a key strategic component of the campaign plan for the theater was predicated on access to an airfield for Coalition air, what alternatives would you have given him to secure air access in the theater in order to protect this specific group of Kurds from Erdogan?
I’m not trying to dump on you, nor am I arguing here that the decision the President made was right. What I am suggesting is that it wasn’t easy. Every strategic decision changes the Operating Environment. Every alternative will change it in a different way. And many times it is unclear what those changes and effects will be when considering the choice to be made, the necessity of making it, and the likely outcomes.
I have served as an advisor from the tactical to the strategic level. My job has always been to tell the decision makers what they need to know, not what they want to hear. But at the end of the day, unless I’m the Staff Officer tasked with making the decision or I’m in a situation where I have to make a decision on the fly without recourse to higher authorities – and I’ve been a small team leader and had to do so – the job is to provide the input to the best of my ability and then once the decision is made to salute and move out sharply. And moving out sharply means maintaining visibility on the decision, its potential effects, and making sure that I have updates ready in case the decision has to be reconsidered.
At the end of the day, the President had to make a hard decision. He made it. It is easy to take pot shots at it from the gallery; especially if we don’t like the decision. But at the end of the day it wasn’t your or my decision to make.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: he was white and berobed. From SF and Anchorage, lives in SF. Uh, 35ish?
He named a monastery but seemed a bit dharma-challenged.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I don’t have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun you!
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Which is interesting given that he’s a retired Green Beret 3 star.
WarMunchkin
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
HAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
(deep breath)
AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
sigh
Major Major Major Major
Aw, I just accidentally had frozen yogurt with an ex. Time has been kind.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: To you, the ex, or the frozen yogurt?
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: The hug or not to hug thing….
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: A fraud? Did you check his monk credentials?
hovercraft
@WarMunchkin:
Wait what ? Is that for real ?
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Omnes, I found the New Yorker cartoon of your nightmares.
You’re welcome.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: I didn’t care enough to ask for his card or whatever.
@Adam L Silverman: The ex, he’s kyewwwt. I was *made* to age though, so me too! The yogurt melted.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Wasn’t him. He gave a sermon, while in Class As at a church that was caught on video when he was serving in the Bush 43 Administration. That’s what brought him the notoriety on the bible banging stuff.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Okay, well glad everyone looked fabulous and it wasn’t too awkward.
amk
bs bringing in the voters is true.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: poor froyo, though.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Is there really good froyo?
joel hanes
I’ve only read a quarter of the comments, but:
McKibben is interesting and serious and will engage.
Keith Elliison too. Good work Bernie.
Zogby : I don’t know enough to have an opinion
Cornel West : Dear ghod no. An utterly tone-deaf pick that shows why the national party had to make sure the Bernie was not the nominee.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Pinkberry.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: @Mnemosyne: that one’s good. I was at a local place by the volunteer spot that happened to be open. They all seem to be the same around here, but if it doesn’t have taro flavor I’ve noticed I like it less.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: @Major Major Major Major: I’ll take your words for it.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I also kinda like Menchie’s, but that may be because they’re within walking distance. Plus I’m pretty sure I saw Mark Maron (of “WTF” podcast fame) there.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Pinkberry is the chain that brought back tart frozen yogurt, which I vaguely remembered from the 1970s. It tastes like yogurt, not overly sweetened crap pretending to be ice cream.
ruemara
@danah gaz: Most people would invite you to explore yourself carnally.
Tripod
@Amir Khalid:
Not. It’s a relic of the mid-twentieth century party. It was a lot more ideologically diverse, and the party structure had a lot more power. So they had to hash conflict points out. The convention has long since morphed into a long form TV commercial, and even that in the modern media environment is increasingly anachronistic.
Having said that, Bernie Sanders is very much anchored in a mid-twentieth century view of party function and utility. So it’s an easy give.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s interesting now that you mention it – and no, I would never make that argument. I’ve been thinking about the personal/political dynamic between those two characters – and I think if I were casting it, I would go for a fairly large age difference between the two – either a very young Lady M and a middle-aged Mac, or vice versa. A woman, an ambitious woman with a taste for power, and quite possibly someone who hasn’t enough imagination or intestinal fortitude to think things thru’. I could see a very young woman just not having any idea of what this chain of action she’s demanding would actually entail – or an older, rather more embittered character who’s had no chance to seize power in her own right and sees a chance to get it at last, if she can drive her young husband into acting it out for her… that one might actually be the more interesting interpretation, if only because it would subvert the usual couple dynamic/dynamic couple age paradigm.
Oh dear. I just used the phrase “subvert the paradigm”.
Mike J
@Tripod:
He shows time and again how little he knows about how the Democratic party works, but he’s still convinced that it is corrupt from top to bottom.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: I think it’s probably the best stage direction ever.
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: Everybody knows that Macbeth is a burger-flipper trying to take over a restaurant, pursued by Christopher Walken.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Great gasbags! All I saw was the caption and it was enough to give me the hives!
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Heh. Indeed. Thank you for making this point. I think that’s the thing that’s making me feel so crazy dealing with certain friends of mine, now – I see them as naive and judgemental about the way the world works, and they see me as an advocate for hawkism (neoliberal, oh, noes!) for trying to say that I think it’s a big complicated world and honest to God I no longer feel certain what I would do or not do if I were suddenly thrust into a position of power.
Tripod
If it’s a retired flag officer, it will be a Stockdale type. i.e. old, and not all there.
My WAG is Christie, but hey, Pat Buchanan is saying lots of nice things about Trump.
Tripod
@Mike J:
Projection.
My take on the lack of tax returns is having to shield the Senator from whatever flim-flam was in the BC deal.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WarMunchkin: this is in response to a stunt on the Jimmy Kimmel show?
Socraticsilence
@WarMunchkin:
The funny part is that Trump’s just thin-skinned and reckless enough he may not back out. Can’t see Manafort letting it happen but Trump seems like the kind of guy who’d ignore good advice.
magurakurin
@? Martin: I agree. Clinton and the DNC signed off on West being on the committee. That’s good enough for me. I’m looking to hire Clinton as the top executive of this whole shitstorm…I’m going to trust her judgement on this. Maybe that’s a mistake, but if I don’t trust her to make this call…why would I trust her for the many more serious one’s she will have to make when she gets hired? Let it go everyone. It doesn’t mean shit.
magurakurin
@danah gaz:
Sending in two companies of Green Berets to train them and direct air support from American pilots to help them reclaim large portions of Northern Syria, up to and including Raqqa as it appear now….yeah, doesn’t real sound like a sell out. Have you heard much out of Turkey recently? As the Kurds continue marching west of the Euphrates. No, I didn’t think so.
Anne Laurie
@Miss Bianca: Too late for either of you to read this, probably, but I’d *love* to hear your opinions on Mary McCarthy’s Macbeth…
Anne Laurie
@efgoldman: One of the most memorable of my (not all that extensive) live theatre experiences was watching Cherry Jones as Major Barbara, at ART, back in the very early 1980s. Perfect character for an amazing actress!… even though she did kinda blow the other actors right off the stage by comparison (and they weren’t bad, just not in her league).
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@pseudonymous in nc:
+1 on context matters.
But…
The whole point of Twitter seems to be to throw up 140 characters that by design cannot have any context. If someone is trying to make a nuanced statement, doing it on Twitter is the perfect medium for failure. Especially when there’s no universally agreed emoji for sarcasm.
Cheers,
Scott.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mnemosyne: Read her 2002 Senate statement before the Iraq “war authorization” vote. You’ll probably be less concerned about her supposed uber hawkishness. There’s a lot of nuance there.
Yes, her vote was wrong, because she trusted W to not do something stupid. She was wrong there…
Cheers,
Scott.
Barbara
Maybe there will be another thread — but today’s NYT suggests that Sanders’ main purpose in choosing Ellison, West and Zogby is to fight over Israeli/Palestinian policy positions. As someone who is open to rethinking what really constitutes supporting Israel versus enabling slow motion self-destruction, I am still pondering what this says about Sanders. On the one hand, having spent the better part of a year talking about economic inequality and its attributes and possible salves, basically to the exclusion of foreign policy, it seems like a gadfly thing to do — on the other hand, it serves to highlight that there isn’t much more than a dime’s worth of difference between Sanders and Clinton on domestic issues, and so no real need for Sanders to worry about those.
Miss Bianca
@Anne Laurie: Way dead thread, but yeah…Cherry Jones acted in Chicago a lot – I think I saw her in a production of “The Good Person of Sezchuan” at the Goodman. Not a great production, but *she* was great.
liberal
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: More idiotic apologia. Anyone with half a fucking brain knows that a vote for the AUMF was a vote for war. Ergo, either she’s a drooling idiot, or she favored war with Iraq. (I guess there’s a third option: she’s a coward.)
But apologia based on the claim that she trusted Bush is ludicrous.
slag
Most far lefties I know get along better with Republicans than they do regular lefties. Which has led me to believe that their fealty to principle is significantly weaker than their fealty to crazy.
Ella in New Mexico
@PhoenixRising:
Shhhh! You’re disrupting their laser-like focus on the important stuff! ;-)
Ella in New Mexico
@Amir Khalid:
As a statement of mission and goal setting, I think it’s important enough.
But if I’m correct, one area they will be addressing at the Convention is one that we can all agree needs an overhaul: The Primary process, and reducing the number of caucuses vs. elections.