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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: Speak Softly, Punch Hard

Open Thread: Speak Softly, Punch Hard

by Anne Laurie|  May 28, 20166:25 pm| 178 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Republican Stupidity, Warren for Senate 2012

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There's more enthusiasm for @realDonaldTrump among leaders of the KKK than leaders of the political party he now controls.

— Elizabeth Warren (@elizabethforma) May 4, 2016

If @realDonaldTrump actually believes every stupid lie he reads on the Internet, we’re in for a truckload of trouble if he’s President.

— Elizabeth Warren (@elizabethforma) May 25, 2016

NPR covers Trump calling Warren Pochahantas on if she is/benefitted from being Native American, not that he's using Pochahantas as a slur

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) May 27, 2016

As I may have said before, I {heart} my senior Senator! From that NPR interview:

… Because Warren is a woman who holds the press at arm’s length, it might have seemed a touch ironic when Democratic Leader Harry Reid chose her to be the messenger for the progressive wing of the party. Warren stepped into that leadership position barely two years into her first term.

Reid said Warren is simply strategic about when to speak.

“She’s an effective messenger because, No. 1, she doesn’t talk very much,” said Reid. “I find — maybe I’m being judgmental — but I think when people talk too much, their message is lost. She doesn’t talk very much. But when she talks, people listen.”

Reid says even during internal caucus meetings, Warren is very quiet. She speaks up with her colleagues only in deliberate moments.

“People think she’s a big talker. She isn’t,” said Reid. “In our caucus, I have some people who raise their hands all the time. They want to be recognized. But not Elizabeth.”

And her supporters say that strategic use of her influence has made her a powerful validator in the caucus — someone who can breathe new life into a cause simply by jumping on, whether it’s Wall Street reform, expanding Social Security or reducing student debt…

She doesn’t just launch issues. Democrats say she can also launch candidates. Warren is one of the top fundraisers in her caucus. During the 2014 midterms, she raked in more than $6 million for Democratic Senate, House and gubernatorial candidates and party committees.

This election cycle, Warren’s Leadership PAC has given away about a quarter-million dollars; her office says that amount represents just a small portion of her overall fundraising efforts so far, which include fundraising events, campaign appearances and — most important — emails…

Get your facts straight, @realDonaldTrump. I didn’t even go to Harvard – I’m a graduate of @UHouston and @RutgersU.

— Elizabeth Warren (@elizabethforma) May 26, 2016

Trump can't even get classic Elizabeth Warren insult right. It's "Fauxcahontas." Wordplay prob too complex for him. https://t.co/jGBb1RfUUk

— Yair Rosenberg (@Yair_Rosenberg) May 25, 2016

Elizabeth Warren turns up the anti-Donald Trump volume, hitting him as a tax-dodging scammer https://t.co/T7QN3vG647 pic.twitter.com/7S7Kf4jUvN

— Alan Rappeport (@arappeport) May 25, 2016

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Previous Post: « Long (Noir) Read: “I know who killed the Black Dahlia: my own father”
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Reader Interactions

178Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    May 28, 2016 at 6:33 pm

    Nothing can top her money grubber tweet. Hope she keeps a close watch behind her.

    ETA: Google tells me it was not a tweet. She said this in a speech and then tweeted about it.

  2. 2.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 28, 2016 at 6:33 pm

    Go Warren!

    S. Cat mentioned St. Bernard’s immigration record in the senate but I’m too busy watching GoT to look it up, what is it?

  3. 3.

    smith

    May 28, 2016 at 6:36 pm

    NPR covers Trump calling Warren Pochahantas on if she is/benefitted from being Native American, not that he’s using Pochahantas as a slur

    — Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) May 27, 2016

    I stopped listening to/supporting the Nice Polite Republicans in 2004 when they eagerly repeated Swiftboat slurs that had already been debunked. It’s amazing how well-informed you can stay about US news when you jump across the pond and read the Guardian and listen to BBC. Somehow the distance improves the view.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 6:43 pm

    I hope she goes all Crazy Horse on Trump’s Custer-colored ass.

  5. 5.

    jl

    May 28, 2016 at 6:51 pm

    I heard Trump’s own voice on the news say that he has a very excellent chance to win California in the general election.

    Donald Trump Promises California That ‘There Is No Drought’
    TPM blog
    “We’re going to solve your water problem. You have a water problem that is so insane. It is so ridiculous where they’re taking the water and shoving it out to sea,”
    [One could interpret that in a way that makes very good sense, and leads to some great infrastructure projects, but with Trump, who knows? Probably just wants to kill some fish.]

    “If I win, believe me, we’re going to start opening up the water so that you can have your farmers survive,”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-tells-california-there-is-no-drought

    Trump will ‘start opening up the water’, just like Moses, maybe?
    Thanks to BJ for post earlier today, explaining how this fool insists in running everything about his campaign, relying the voices inside his head. I guess that is good news.

  6. 6.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 6:52 pm

    @Baud: I read that as custard-colored ass, which also works.

  7. 7.

    dr. bloor

    May 28, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    @smith: I hadn’t listened for a long time until I caught a few minutes of their story on the IG’s report re: HRC’s server. The breathlessness of the correspondent and cartoonish voice inflections when she went through the main points was crazy.

    I also learned that “Moneywatch” is funded in part by the Kochs. Yet another reason to loathe Ky Ryssdal.

  8. 8.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 28, 2016 at 6:55 pm

    Drumpf has really screwed the pooch in his decision to pick on someone with twice his brains and vocabulary.

  9. 9.

    dr. bloor

    May 28, 2016 at 6:56 pm

    @opiejeanne: Custard has firmer consistency.

  10. 10.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 28, 2016 at 6:58 pm

    I, too, find I listen more to people who talk less.

  11. 11.

    debbie

    May 28, 2016 at 7:00 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Drumpf has really screwed the pooch in his decision to pick on someone with twice his brains and vocabulary.

    To Trump, there is no such person.

  12. 12.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 7:02 pm

    @jl: Water issues in CA are not just an infrastructure problem to be solved, and even if they wrote off the Delta Smelt as a waste of effort to save, there still wouldn’t be enough water to satisfy the farmers who want more and don’t want to conserve what they already get. Drive the length of the state on I-5 and you can see beautifully tended orchards alongside abandoned ones, and signs blaming Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, and one other Democrat (your choice) for the “dustbowl” that Congress has turned California into.
    Meanwhile, the Hetch-Hetchy and the American Canals are running pretty full, and Lake Shasta has finally filled up again, but there’s not enough snow pack in the Sierras to say the drought is over. The Sierra snow pack is really the Big Deal in California when it comes to droughts because that water is released slowly into the aquifer, recharging it.
    In the 90s I flew quite often between Oakland and Ontario, CA and when I looked down on that central valley it was like looking at a huge mirror as far as the eye could see, because they were flooding the orchards to water them.
    Less than 10% of the water in California goes to homes, supposedly 40% to farming/industry, and 50% to conservation efforts. I know that the first figure, the 10% is correct, but I question the rest of it.
    Aside from that, whiskey’s for drinkin’, water’s for fighting’.

    ETA: SoCal is a Mediterranean climate, or was. It will become a desert climate with global warming.

  13. 13.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    @dr. bloor: That may be true. Is this the straight dope from Ivana?

  14. 14.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 7:11 pm

    Evening BJ peeps.

    I’ve had a craving for some good ole soul food all week, but I’ve been pushing it off all week. But When you have a craving so you do something about it…

    Meal for the Week…NOLA Style Stuffed Bell Peppers, Baked Mac & Cheese, BBQ Chicken Breast

    I’ve got my lunch for the next 7-10 days!

    well guess I’ve got lunch for the rest of the week…

  15. 15.

    SFAW

    May 28, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Is this the straight dope from Ivana?

    If you’re referring to Trump, shouldn’t “Dope” be capitalized?

  16. 16.

    Suzanne

    May 28, 2016 at 7:13 pm

    God? How excellent is Elizabeth Warren at the graceful shiv? She slays without getting her hands dirty. So impressive.

  17. 17.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    May 28, 2016 at 7:14 pm

    @dr. bloor: Eh? You mean “Marketplace” or does Ryssdal have another show, also too?

    FAQs:

    Q: Don’t your funders try to influence the content of your program or the way in which you report stories?

    A: The answer is a flat no. None of our funders have ever tried (nor would they be permitted) to influence the content in any way. When there are stories critical of one of our underwriters or sponsors, we report them absolutely straight. And just to make it clear, we make sure to mention in our reports when a company or organization is a supporter of our shows.

    I can’t stand to listen to that show any more because of its relentless “OMG! Inflation is going to kill us in our beds!!” “2% GDP growth is great – who could want any more?”, “Unemployment? What’s that?” etc., type of reporting. Kai and the rest of the reporters have a relentlessly pro-conventional-GOP-slanted angle on most of their stories that I recall, but I don’t think it’s due to the Koch’s or anyone else underwriting them. It’s just a conventional business show that tries to be interesting and edgy, and that by defaults supports US business (at least those with connections).

    FWIW.

    What bothers me about APM/NPR/etc., public radio reporting these days is they treat the presidential campaign like it’s a big joke. There’s far too often a smirk or a chuckle or an outright laugh when they’re talking about Trump or Clinton. And they use constructions like “it wasn’t a good day for” when talking about current events. I’m not listening to her what something wasn’t, but what it was. And don’t get me started on Mara … :-/

    There are actual differences in the policy proposals between the parties and what they would actually do in office (based on their well-documented histories) that people should be informed about. There are actual real-life ramifications that will result from the choices that voters make in the fall. Based on history, many more people will die if the Republicans win than if the Democrats win. But, hey, Trump is rich and says outrageous things that we can’t repeat on the air, and nobody likes Hillary and what about her e-mails anyway, and her husband fooled around on the side and they were investigated for all sorts of scandals that you may remember, and …

    Unfortunately, TV is generally much worse.

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  18. 18.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 28, 2016 at 7:15 pm

    @debbie: Obviously, someone named Donald is not familiar with the writings of Sun Tzu.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 7:15 pm

    @dr. bloor:

    The breathlessness of the correspondent and cartoonish voice inflections when she went through the main points was crazy.

    Every single story I read or heard about this is exactly like this. I hope people get pissed off at the attempted manipulation.

  20. 20.

    Emma

    May 28, 2016 at 7:17 pm

    @lamh36: Holy God, that looks good. *scurries off to find her bbq crawfish recipe*

  21. 21.

    debbie

    May 28, 2016 at 7:18 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Ehh, he don’t read no stinkin’ foreigner!

  22. 22.

    WaterGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:18 pm

    @lamh36: Are those spaghetti noodles in your mac & cheese? Heretic!!! :-)

    Full disclosure: I don’t use elbow macaroni and I’ve tried a dozen or more different shapes in mac & cheese, but spaghetti? that’s just wrong!

    edit: should have mentioned the it all looks great! whispers :: except for the noodles ::

  23. 23.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    May 28, 2016 at 7:18 pm

    @opiejeanne: Until the next megaflood, anyway….

    A 43-day storm that began in December 1861 put central and southern California underwater for up to six months, and it could happen again

    And you thought earthquakes, fires, mudslides, droughts, and air pollution were the only things to worry about!

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  24. 24.

    SFAW

    May 28, 2016 at 7:19 pm

    And I second, third, fourth, fifth ad infinitum Anne Laurie’s sentiments re: our senior Senator. In a battle of wits (so to speak) with Deadbeat Donnie, she’d have to have half her brain tied behind her back for it to be anything approaching close, and it would be “close” in the same way that it would be “close” if I played LeBron 1-on-1. (In case that’s not clear enough: the only dribbling I can handle is when I miss my mouth with the whiskey glass.)

  25. 25.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    @WaterGirl: yep…it’s how we make em in my fam…lol.

    DEAL WITH IT…. :-p

  26. 26.

    SarahT

    May 28, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    @opiejeanne: He probably spray tans that too. Ugh, I just grossed myself out.

  27. 27.

    jl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    @opiejeanne: California couldn’t supply Central Valley agriculture demands for water even before the drought, it was being mined even before the drought. Deepening the wells even more is not working anymore in some places because they have hit very ancient water which is not suitable for irrigation or drinking. And it will be interesting to see how many Central Valley aquifers have been permanently destroyed, and how many will take thousands of years to replenish, rather than a few wet years or a few decades, depending on the soil structure. I heard a hydrologist say that no one really knows.

    I cannot believe how deep the wells are now on farms some of my family own in Central Valley. One thing that is limiting the damage is that after the wells reach a certain depth, it is expensive water just because of the electricity bill for lifting it. It is a mess. Quite a few farmers planting to avoid regular use of well water now. Too damn expensive to lift it to the surface. The guy who bought a cousin’s farm is trying to avoid using the deep well on the place entirely. Too expensive and too risky if price of crop not high enough.

    Much of California water system will have to be reconfigured over next century as global warming reduces average Sierra Nevada snow pack. Maybe less if predictions that Sierra will be snowless 4 out of ten years by 2100.

    Trump would be disaster, not sure whether he would be worse disaster than standard GOP BS, but still a disaster.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    @WaterGirl:
    @lamh36:

    The first pastafarian schism. It’s a real religion now.

  29. 29.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    Ugh. Is it November yet (not just election day, but my 40th bday too)

    Soooo over politics right now…

    So…my favorite subject then…movies…

    All these Kingsman announcements & all I care about is one: COLIN FIRTH!!!!

    Jeff Bridges joins ‘The Golden Circle’ http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/28/kingsman-2-golden-circle-jeff-bridges-casting

  30. 30.

    ThresherK

    May 28, 2016 at 7:23 pm

    Well, we sweated and pedaled the Walkway over the Hudson. On our bikes. (Yeah, “Walkway” is a misnomer.)

    Best bits: The slight coasting downhillness from the west side (Highland, where we’re staying) to Poughkeepsie. Also the elevator which took us from the waterfront on the east side back up 210 feet to the bridge. Oh, and on a day like today when you’re that high over that huge a waterway there is a constant, needed, breeze.

    Worst part: We left the camera in the hotel.

  31. 31.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 7:26 pm

    More pop culture movie news…

    Hmmm, I like Hiddles, but nah…dont’ see him as Bond…but guess it’s just me

    @TheMarySue
    Tom Hiddleston In Talks To Take Over as The New 007 #NextBond http://www.themarysue.com/the-name-is-bond-hiddlesbond/ …
    https://twitter.com/TheMarySue/status/736664607855501312

    Someone says he’s been campaigning for the roll…shrug…
    I was on the Idris as Bond train, but then I figured hell naw.
    Idris deserves his own action franchise…leave old dry Bond to the white dudes…bleh

  32. 32.

    The Dangerman

    May 28, 2016 at 7:27 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    ….there still wouldn’t be enough water to satisfy the farmers who want more….

    While it’s only empirical (from driving the Valley multiple times recently), Almond trees seem to be everywhere now; it makes sense from the Farmers perspective (Almonds are high $ crop) but also extremely water intensive. Dumb fuckers brought in on themselves.

  33. 33.

    JMG

    May 28, 2016 at 7:30 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Scott, if NPR told the truth, the Republicans in Congress would shut down the government until they could deny it funding. Mind you, NPR is stupid. The Republicans will kill it the first chance they get.

  34. 34.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    May 28, 2016 at 7:34 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Drumpf has really screwed the pooch in his decision to pick on someone with twice his brains and vocabulary.

    That’d be Trump versus pretty much anyone who’s allowed out of the house without a minder.

  35. 35.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 7:35 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Nah, I’m a native; those are just things we expected periodically when I lived there. We were mindful of all of these things whenever we bought a house anywhere in CA (7?, I’ve lost track), and yet we sat so close to catastrophe . We still own a cabin in the mountains near Arrowhead, and we know that it got a lucky break in 2003, when the Old Fire destroyed more than 1000 homes.
    They had to row the new governor out to the Capitol building in Sacramento for at least one inauguration, undoubtedly the one during the storm you mentioned since the building was new that year. Took several more years to complete.
    Side note: have you been in the Capitol building? The Newell posts on the stairs have carvings of grizzly bears.

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:36 pm

    @lamh36: Harump! I have made lasagna with spaghetti noodles, if that redeems me at all. Also, I grew up putting rice in chili and making thanksgiving stuffing with crackers not bread, so I do know that what we grow up with is the best.

  37. 37.

    Shell

    May 28, 2016 at 7:36 pm

    Elizabeth Warren, sometimes referred to as Pocahontas,

    Nice passive-aggresiveness there, Trump, since you’re the only one using that phrase.

  38. 38.

    MomSense

    May 28, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    @lamh36:

    Yum.

  39. 39.

    lollipopguild

    May 28, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    @The Dangerman: It will always be some one else’s fault and it will always be Big Govt/taxpayers job to fix. Rinse and repeat.

  40. 40.

    PurpleGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    @opiejeanne: IIRC, most of SoCal gets its water from the Colorado River which flows into Mexico. The water was apportioned based on water flow during an anomalous high water year in the 1920s. Since then the water flow of the Colorado has not reached as a high a level. And because of the foreign pact with Mexico they must honor that apportionment. California has a lot water problems.

  41. 41.

    WaterGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    @Baud: oh, my gosh, I did actually use the word heretic!

  42. 42.

    dr. bloor

    May 28, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    @debbie: Yep. Trump is Dunning-Kruger with a bad hair weave.

    Unfortunately, to steal a phrase, he’s also an unsuccessful person’s idea of what a successful person looks like.

  43. 43.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 28, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Just like guns his record on immigration is not all that liberal, its mixed. He is a restrictionist especially about skilled immigration and has worked closely with the Chuck Grassley to pass amendments to that effect. His opinion of immigrants is that they steal jobs, not unlike Trump. He is not against asylum seekers though.

    His record here

  44. 44.

    jl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    @The Dangerman: A lot of a recent almond expansion in Central Valley is from corporate investment operations. They have time horizons far less than the 25 or 30 years a small farmer would use, and tend to be worse water miners. CA nut crop export boom has deflated a bit due to slower growth in Asia. Some corporate plantings s in San Joaquin Valley have been put in, plants run to the max and then ripped out so quickly, people wonder whether there is some tax scam angle really driving the profits. Not run like standard farm operation.

  45. 45.

    WaterGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:42 pm

    @lamh36: I had never heard of Kingsman – I need to get out more! I checked netflix, but it’s only available by DVD. bummer

  46. 46.

    Eric U.

    May 28, 2016 at 7:42 pm

    @ThresherK: that bridge is amazing. It’s really too bad we don’t build more bridges that don’t allow cars, it’s so nice. I rode across it as part of a 600km ride which lasted only two days, so I didn’t get to enjoy it as much as I might like

  47. 47.

    The Dangerman

    May 28, 2016 at 7:44 pm

    Whew, I’m not going (too) crazy:

    And yet, during the 12 months ending in May 2014, an additional 48,000 acres of new almond orchards were planted across the state. “They’re planting almonds like crazy,” says Richard Howitt, an agricultural economist at the University of California, Davis.

    ….takes about 1 million gallons of water per acre per year, according to research by UC Davis agricultural engineer Blaine Hanson—enough to supply six average California households.

    Source.

  48. 48.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 7:44 pm

    Le sigh…dementia isn’t anything to make light of, but seriously, is something going on with Dole’s brain?

    @cnnbrk
    Bob Dole urges GOP to support Donald Trump, pushes Newt Gingrich as VP pick. http://cnn.it/1XFnHvx

  49. 49.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    May 28, 2016 at 7:45 pm

    @opiejeanne: I’m on the other side of the country in NoVA. I’ve been to LA, SD, and Monterery a few times for conferences, SF, Oakland, and Yosemite for tourist-type things, but have never been to Sacramento. If/when I get there, I’ll be sure to check it out! Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  50. 50.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    @WaterGirl: OMG…If you are as much of a Firth fan as much as I am, and a fan of a good fight scene (or two) then you will LOVE Kingsman.

    I’ll just say, Colin Firth in hipster glasses, dressed in tailor-made suits, kicking ass and taking names!!!!

    Yes!!!

  51. 51.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    May 28, 2016 at 7:48 pm

    @WaterGirl:
    Kingsman kinda bothered me. It’s a good action adventure flick. Like Bond but with better stunts and an even crazier evil villain. But there’s a political subtext: governments are helpless to stop real crime, and the world needs a secret league of unaccountable vigilantes in smart haberdashery to do the job. Bond was a member of MI6 and was accountable to a security service, and that makes a big difference.

  52. 52.

    The Dangerman

    May 28, 2016 at 7:50 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    ….but have never been to Sacramento.

    Other than the Capitol, you have missed …. nothing.

  53. 53.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 7:51 pm

    @jl: Oh, sorry I assumed you were unaware of the magnitude of Trump’s stupidity on this subject is, aside from there being this drought, and way down the block from what global warming is doing to the state.

    Somewhat off topic, In the winter of 1969 I was living in the dorms at Cal Poly Pomona. I did not have dry feet for more than an hour or so for six weeks that winter, it rained so much. Some smarty crawled out one night and hung over the side of the new Commons to paint a very believable crack in the cement above the culvert that ran under the building; inside, the dining room at the back looked out over a lake that lasted for two weeks; it was really just a creek that only had water when it rained. There was a mudslide in Glendora (not to be confused with Glendale) on Rainbow Ave that destroyed a number of houses and killed several people. Potted plants from a nursery were scattered along Foothill Blvd for miles. Local streets were impassable.
    I had a similar experience in the winter of 1993, in Castro Valley, and every other year after that until we moved back south. One year my husband got to tell the CHP to close Mission Blvd from Hayward to Fremont, and had a row of houses evacuated by the fire department. He was a Civil Engineer in Public Works for Hayward and the emergency personnel were so overwhelmed that he was called out in the storm to direct some of this stuff. Normally he just designed curbs and gutters, roads, airport runways, etc.

  54. 54.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 7:52 pm

    @SarahT: If the consistency of custard didn’t squick you out I’m surprised that did.

  55. 55.

    chopper

    May 28, 2016 at 7:53 pm

    @Shell:

    Elizabeth Warren, sometimes referred to as Pocahontas*

    *by assholes.

  56. 56.

    OzarkHillbilly

    May 28, 2016 at 7:55 pm

    That does it, I am now sending EW some more money.

  57. 57.

    jl

    May 28, 2016 at 7:57 pm

    @opiejeanne: I was snarking on Trump.

    The butt ignorance of the GOP, and some of the Dems in CA is scary. I heard about an idiot CA ballot initiative to stop the bullet train and use the money to build dams and gut environmental regulations. Running to the archives quick like a bunny for old plans for dams that were never built is a very bad idea in CA, because there are reservoir locations for snowmelt and reservoir locations for rain runoff. Not sure CA will get much of anything from the former anymore. So, thanks for making a fuss, it reminds me I have to go see what has become of that initiative. Haven’t heard about it for a while.

    Edit: and thanks for CA deluge stories. Thing about long range global warming forecasts I remember reading for CA, is that long term average reduction in water for state will not be as bad as will be for places like Texas. But longer droughts interrupted with more super storms like the one that turned Central Valley into a big lake and almost washed away Sacramento in the 1860s. Whole state water infrastructure will have to modified to take care of new conditions.

  58. 58.

    pseudonymous in nc

    May 28, 2016 at 7:58 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    It’s just a conventional business show that tries to be interesting and edgy, and that by defaults supports US business (at least those with connections).

    It’s what Thomas Frank called ‘market fundamentalism’ in One Market Under God: the idea that what’s good for Wall Street is good for America, and that everything must be seen through that filter, with CEOs and billionaires as hero-figures. The modern tech variant is even more corrosive, given how it elevates assholes like Peter Thiel and Marc Andreessen whose distinguishing talent was being in the right place at the right time, and subsequently having a lot of money to throw at the wall.

    And because it’s numbers journalism– X was up, Y was down, Z announced quarterly profits — it’s attractive to lazy journalists who’ll report the numbers but not really offer any decent analysis of why they’re reporting on those numbers.

  59. 59.

    EBT

    May 28, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    @SarahT: I bet it looks like a baby carrot.

  60. 60.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 8:03 pm

    @The Dangerman: We’ve been watching the plantings along I-5 change dramatically since 1992, going from mostly annual crops like cotton and onions to orchards. I was surprised to see several citrus groves being planted as far north as they were, near Patterson, but most are thriving. Some of the older orchards of plums and peaches are abandoned while others right next to them are being carefully tended. There are a lot of pistachio trees too that weren’t there in 1992.
    We have driven that road at least 8 times a year for the past 6, and more from 1992-2010. Just about where the 580 takes off for SF (and Castro Valley, which is not to be confused with Castroville) there used to be a Ferris wheel tucked in between the hills on the West side of the freeway. There was a small herd of oddly colored cows, black with a white band around their middle that we used to see there, just before heading into the Altamont Pass. (Gimme Shelter).

  61. 61.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    May 28, 2016 at 8:04 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc: Indeed. That’s a great distillation.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  62. 62.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    May 28, 2016 at 8:04 pm

    Speaking of what pisses us off on NPR, the following. Obama made a comment a few months ago that the media helped create Donald Trump and is partially responsible for his disruption of the GOP. NPR’s show On the Media reported that comment and immediately swung into their response. The response: Obama said his would be the most transparent Presidency ever. But he doesn’t have enough press conferences, and keeps the press at arm’s length. They went on to indict him for being opaque and unreachable. In response to his accusation that the press helped promote Trump by covering his antics. As if there was any possible connection. I was literally in disbelief. I’ve stopped listening to that program. And anyway, who wants to hear the press talk about the press?

  63. 63.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 8:05 pm

    @lamh36: I haven’t even looked and I’m already drooling. Darn it!

  64. 64.

    Anne Laurie

    May 28, 2016 at 8:07 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    Dumb fuckers brought in on themselves.

    Tragedy of the Commons. Maybe the single most universal human story — “Sure, being greedy now will ensure that my grandchildren starve, but what have those yet-to-be-born little bastids done for me lately?”

    Every culture I know of (and I’ve been a hobbyist there for decades) has at least one “Make sure to tell the kids this early & repeat it regularly” story about why short-term-thinking greed is a really bad idea that will inevitably bite the greedster. Because, I suspect, the cultures that didn’t teach incentives to altruism early didn’t survive to share their stories. The mottos won’t stick with every individual, of course, but “we” need to keep the greedheads as the exception, not the exemplar!

  65. 65.

    Gravenstone

    May 28, 2016 at 8:08 pm

    @lamh36: Well, he has been cast as the protagonist for the Black Tower movie.. Question is if the movie will be an attempt to condense the seven novels (plus hundreds of comics), or whether it will be the rumored sequel/continuation of the written properties.

  66. 66.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    May 28, 2016 at 8:10 pm

    @PurpleGirl: Southern CA gets it water from 4 sources: local water(wells and what comes from the local mountains), the CA water project that brings water from NorCal, LA gets it’s water from the eastern Sieria(think Chinatown), and the CO River. The proportions will vary by jurisdiction.

    ETA: Local water is a larger proportion that one might think in many jurisdictions.

  67. 67.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    May 28, 2016 at 8:11 pm

    @smith: I still support my NPR station because BBC Radio.

    @lamh36: Hiddleston also campaigned for the role of Thor. Then he saw Hemsworth at the casting call and decided he couldn’t compete with that.

    You know what I would like to see him do? Peter Wimsey.

  68. 68.

    EBT

    May 28, 2016 at 8:11 pm

    @efgoldman: I thought we were talking about Trump’s Schwartz

  69. 69.

    jl

    May 28, 2016 at 8:13 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc: @Ultraviolet Thunder: NPR economic and financial reporting is total and complete garbage. At least that is the opinion of this economist. I can barely stand to listen too it, and there is a constant battle when I go home and parents are listening to it. They think it is high minded liberal shit that makes sense, and informs them of the hard choices and interesting exquisite dilemmas that we all must ponder. I tell them it is innumerate shit and it just creates disinformation and confusion in their heads. So, I turn radio to standard news channel or sports, or some nice norteno music, and then they turn it back to NPR after awhile.

    They are addicted to that NPR junk.

    Edit: something weirdly dead about the NPR sound that irritates me too. I can’t figure out what it is. Has this weird dead overproduced sound. I hate hate hate NPR public affairs information news product

  70. 70.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    May 28, 2016 at 8:14 pm

    @opiejeanne: I’ve been to the Capitol twice, the first time was in 1975 and it was dark and kind of grubby. We stopped by about 3 years later and they had torn out the interior of the old building and were rebuilding it(sort of what they did with the White House in the late 40’s and early 50’s). My wife went a couple of years ago and her pictures look real nice.

  71. 71.

    Mike in NC

    May 28, 2016 at 8:15 pm

    @lamh36: Bob Dole; a name that has always rhymed with Ass Hole.

  72. 72.

    hovercraft

    May 28, 2016 at 8:16 pm

    The DNC shot down the latest hostage demand re. Malloy and Frank. I think that someone needs to explain the phrase “to the victor go the spoils”. In order to override the wishes of the establishment like Trump is doing, you have to actually win. Promising to continue your tantrum till you get your way will not win you any new fans. The fact that some of your die hard fans are promising retribution is fools gold, in the end the vast majority of them will come around in the end. Yelling loudly does not a majority make. 60% say they will support Hillary, and thats before ant attempt to unify.
    The media wants this to be a huge issue, so they exaggerate the extent of the rift.

  73. 73.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 8:17 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: You know, I’ve often wondered how this country might feel different – if there wouldn’t be such a pissed-off lunatic Sanders and Trump fringe – if we had as many “labor reports” as we had “business reports” in the media. If “business” in this country’s reporting didn’t always mean “capital”. Maybe now the time is riper for such things.

  74. 74.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    May 28, 2016 at 8:17 pm

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: I’m disappointed to hear that. I don’t get to listen to OTM much, but I’ve generally liked it.

    How Not to Normalize Trump from May 13:

    BOB GARFIELD: The man is a menace of historic proportions, so who the Chuck Todd cares about his tax proposals? It’s like asking Charles Manson about his driving record. But here comes the political press, going into standard general election mode and treating a demagogue as a legitimate standard bearer, as if the only thing he has to answer for is the latest blip in the news cycle.

    MALE CORRESPONDENT: Who will Donald Trump pick as his vice presidential running mate?

    MALE CORRESPONDENT: All right, just moments ago Donald Trump arrived in Washington. We saw his plane at Reagan National Airport. At this very moment, he is in an SUV. He’s on his way.

    BOB GARFIELD: Let’s just say that we institutionally were obliged, ‘til now, to report and thus give oxygen to Trump’s incendiary ravings because hate speech is news. It’s our role to expose it, even if the exposure serves him. It is not our role, however, to be co-conspirators in his revisionist imagery.

    […]

    BOB GARFIELD: For crying out loud, of course, he wants to be elevated. What’s sickening is who’s operating the elevator. With every oh, so decorous question about tax policy or the national debt, the media are not simply abetting him but normalizing him, in effect, accepting his grotesque path to the nomination.

    Look, by its nature, journalism subordinates old news to the latest development. But, in this case, being slave to the fresh angle is simple malpractice because every moment spent on Trump policy and process buries the lead. The lead is that a man who wants to build a wall, who wants to ban Muslims, who sees women only as potential vessels for his – “no problem there, I assure you” – could be the president of the United States. It was the lead in July. It is the lead now. It will be the lead in November.

    Excellent. And that’s pretty much what Obama was saying, too. But I’m sure they too get in a bit of a defensive crouch when general criticism comes from the POTUS rather than from themselves.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 8:17 pm

    @jl: I occasionally listen to the Planet Money podcasts. It’s ok, but it does have that sort of quality that you describe.

  76. 76.

    eclare

    May 28, 2016 at 8:18 pm

    @lamh36: He definitely deserves his own movie. But he will always be String to me.

  77. 77.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    May 28, 2016 at 8:18 pm

    @jl:
    I kinda follow these two blogs for general economics news and analysis.
    Bonddad Blog
    Economist’s View

    And I don’t believe anything I hear on the radio about economics.

  78. 78.

    jl

    May 28, 2016 at 8:18 pm

    @Mike in NC: But we can type and say Bobdole again!

    Trump and Lil’ Newtie would make quite a pair on campaign trail. Christie will probably tag along to, in order to absorb insults and humiliation, which seems to be his role in the campaign. Probably will need to reinforce the podium to support all that blubber and hot air safely.

  79. 79.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 8:19 pm

    @PurpleGirl: I know about those allotments, and also that other states like Nevada are now claiming their share, when in the past they did not. I’m not sure the Colorado is most of SoCal’s water but it’s certainly a lot. Both of those canals I mentioned come from Northern California, the Hetch-Hetchy delivers to San Francisco, and the San Fernando valley got its water from the eastern Sierras, from the Owens River up until the 80s or 90s . The northern end of Riverside gets its water from wells in San Bernardino due to some tomfoolery when the one county was split into two; the south end is Colorado water or MWD water (can’t remember which). What isn’t used or is reclaimed goes into the Santa Ana and is drunk in Orange County. The San Gabriel Valley has wells in the San Gabriel Mountains. There is reclaimed water that is pumped into the aquifer in El Segundo to keep seawater out… I don’t know all of the details of SoCal.

  80. 80.

    dr. bloor

    May 28, 2016 at 8:19 pm

    @jl:

    I hate hate hate NPR public affairs information news product

    News-Whiz!

    Or, possibly, Newzeeta.

  81. 81.

    WaterGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 8:19 pm

    @lamh36: @Ultraviolet Thunder: I will definitely watch it if I get the chance. When I am benevolent dictator of the world, every show I want to watch will be on Netflix.

    UV Thunder: i have the same sort of issue with some of the shows I watch. Watching the “good guys” bend the rules or have the wrong politics is frustrating. Even on NCIS (where I had no problem with *spoller* Gibbs killing the guy who murdered his family) they will threaten someone with Gitmo unless they spill the beans. Ugh. Mostly with TV I just try to ignore it. Except when I can’t.

  82. 82.

    jl

    May 28, 2016 at 8:20 pm

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Economists View is the go to blog for keeping up with interesting developments. I think most economists keep up with it.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 8:21 pm

    @WaterGirl: TV shows are pretty bad about that. Interestingly, NCIS, the original, is one of the better ones in that respect.

  84. 84.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    May 28, 2016 at 8:21 pm

    @jl: CA had a governor back in the late 70’s that wanted to build a peripheral canal to shunt water around the delta, he was call a fool. Wonder what happened to that guy.

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 28, 2016 at 8:22 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: When on deadly ground, flee.

  86. 86.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    May 28, 2016 at 8:23 pm

    @WaterGirl:
    I keep an eye peeled for cop shows that undermine the rule of law. Unfortunately that’s pretty much all of them since Joe Friday went off the air. Breaking the rules makes for exciting drama. But it supports the belief of a lot of people that the law coddles criminals and the best way to bring them to ‘justice’ is to break the law. I see that a lot these days. Amoral vigilante heroes. Don’t like it at all.

  87. 87.

    Anne Laurie

    May 28, 2016 at 8:25 pm

    @lamh36: Goddess knows Dole’s old enough & has been through enough that it might be creeping dementia. On the other hand, maybe it’s snark / despair at what “his” party has become. Remember those Dung Beetle Repubs who mocked him when he showed up to plead for passage of a law supporting disability rights?

    … “You know I believe Jeb is a man of integrity and honesty. I just hope he keeps his word when he said he would support the nominee,” Dole said. “I know Trump didn’t make it very easy for him, because of all the things he said about Jeb, but Jeb is bigger than that and I do hope to see him on board. It would mean a lot in states like Florida and Jeb has friends all over the country. So does his dad and brother and mother.”…

    I don’t remember Bob Dole being on the best terms with the Bush Crime family, maybe it’s just me.

    … “My view is that Donald Trump needs someone who understands Congress, who can help him work with Congress, who understands foreign policy, domestic policy, economic policy. You know someone like Newt Gingrich,” Dole said. “You know none of us are perfect, but Newt Gingrich is a good fit for Trump, because he can help him in all of those areas and Trump has to listen.”

    Dole added that Gingrich, who was a controversial House speaker during the 1990s, is someone Trump could trust and a man who would have the courage to tell the mogul when he’s made mistakes….

    I hear: “Donald couldn’t find his own arse using both hands; Newt will help by biting him there — early & often.”

  88. 88.

    ellie

    May 28, 2016 at 8:26 pm

    @lamh36: I love Idris Elba. He would make a great Bond but yeah, he needs his own franchise, like Luther for the big screen or something equally spectacular.

  89. 89.

    WaterGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 8:27 pm

    @Baud: Do you watch NCIS? What do you think of the two new characters they introduced in the last 2 episodes of the season?

  90. 90.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 28, 2016 at 8:27 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc: The motherfuckers wearing Adam Smith ties obviously have not read Smith.

  91. 91.

    debbie

    May 28, 2016 at 8:27 pm

    @Baud:

    I thought Planet Money did a very credible job explaining the housing crisis back when it started.

  92. 92.

    Millard Filmore

    May 28, 2016 at 8:28 pm

    “Elizabeth Warren turns up the anti-Donald Trump volume, hitting him as a tax-dodging scammer”

    According to Mitt Romney’s arithmetic, since Trump did not pay income tax way back when, Trump is one of those moochers and takers.

  93. 93.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 8:28 pm

    @WaterGirl: @WaterGirl: there is always something in most movies I watch where i have to suspend belief.

    If I let real world political politics bother me, I’d never really enjoy any of the mindless action movies I love

  94. 94.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 8:29 pm

    @WaterGirl: Yes. Too early to tell how’ll they’ll be on a permanent basis.

    @debbie: I didn’t hear that one. I’ve only caught a few episodes. It’s definitely not offensive like CNBC or anything.

  95. 95.

    msdc

    May 28, 2016 at 8:29 pm

    If @realDonaldTrump actually believes every stupid lie he reads on the Internet, we’re in for a truckload of trouble if he’s President.

    I’ve got to be honest with you, I did not initially read that as saying “truckload.”

    And that is the only way it could have been more awesome.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 8:30 pm

    @msdc: stupid autocorrect

  97. 97.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 8:30 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: It’s a grand old building, unless they’ve goofed it up in order to modernize it since the 90s. The last time I was there was in1994 with a bunch of elementary school kids. They rode the train, we drove and brought them home. They had a grand time, and the building had just been restored so it was a wonderful trip. We saw Willie Brown’s office when he was Speaker of the Assembly, and several other names on doors that I recognized from both parties and both ends of the state.

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 28, 2016 at 8:31 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I was thinking of something a bit more basic, like knowing yourself, but yes, that’s good advice, too, that Drumpf seems to be blissfully unaware of.

  99. 99.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 28, 2016 at 8:32 pm

    Ughhh I need to stop commenting on dumb people’s Facebook posts about Bernie.

    Mind you, I don’t mind when it’s intelligent people.

  100. 100.

    eclare

    May 28, 2016 at 8:32 pm

    @msdc: Hahaha, cackling here.

  101. 101.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 8:33 pm

    @The Dangerman: Pretty much. I have a cousin who lives there and despite being the capital of the state it’s kind of a small town. The suburbs are full of Russian immigrants for some reason, and who vote Republican.

  102. 102.

    WaterGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 8:33 pm

    @lamh36: That’s kind of how I am, too. Except occasionally with actors – if I find out someone is ultraconservative, sometimes I just can’t enjoy shows where they play a big part.

  103. 103.

    Really?

    May 28, 2016 at 8:35 pm

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: It’s amazing just how many cop shows there are. When I was captive for two weeks in Yuma, my gawd the shows (Madame President or some such) were awful beyond belief.

  104. 104.

    Mike J

    May 28, 2016 at 8:36 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Give them this:

    “About 10 years ago, or 12 years ago, at his request as a senior member of the House Financial Services Committee, I went to Burlington to speak at a fundraiser for him,” said Frank. “I hope, for the sake of his purity, that no bankers snuck into the room. And I hope he will release the list of the attendees from that fundraiser, just to make sure.”

  105. 105.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 28, 2016 at 8:37 pm

    @lamh36: Huh, I thought back in the nineties, when Dole was Majority Leader and Newton Leroy was Speaker, the word was Dole hated Newtie. But that was a long time ago, it was just gossip, and it may be that I just assume everybody hates Newtie.

  106. 106.

    NotMax

    May 28, 2016 at 8:37 pm

    Trump fatigue.

    For those with Netflix who might be interested in a good film with a deft and sly comedic slant about corruption and collusion in politics and the mass media, check out The Perfect Dictatorship.

  107. 107.

    SFAW

    May 28, 2016 at 8:37 pm

    @EBT:

    Isn’t there an Open Thread somewhere, where you can talk about every little thing? Some of us just had dinner, no desire to revisit it, if you know what I mean.

    [Glances at post’s title/header …]

    … uh, never mind.

  108. 108.

    lollipopguild

    May 28, 2016 at 8:39 pm

    @jl: That’s Bob Doles chair! Get out of Bob Doles chair!

  109. 109.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 8:41 pm

    @lamh36: Yeah, but…Tom Hiddleston? *Really?*

    You know, I’d like to see Idris Elba tackle that role…mostly for the joy of whitey head ‘splode – because you know he’d find some way to undercut or exaggerate that trope – to comment on it while he was embodying it – and that would be a joy to see.

    Plus, it would make him MEGA MOVIE STAR in Hollywood, and that would be pure awesome.

  110. 110.

    SarahT

    May 28, 2016 at 8:41 pm

    @EBT: I’m sure something on Der Drumpf looks like a baby carrot, but I doubt it’s his ass, if you know what I’m saying (and probably do)…

  111. 111.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 28, 2016 at 8:41 pm

    @Baud: @dr. bloor: The issue with this, aside from the fact that our political reporters are always looking for the sensational and making the mundane hyperbolic, is that understanding this requires a bit of actual knowledge about the system. As I’ve written here before what the IG has highlighted here is the same thing we’ve seen repeatedly highlighted: 1) there is a dispute, based on the National Security Archiving rules, over whether Secretary Clinton had to turn everything over and then the archivers would sort it out or whether what she did, having her lawyers review her email and then turn over what they, after reviewing the rules, determined to be worked related was sufficient. They turned over, if I am recalling correctly, everything but 3,000 emails that were deemed to be personal correspondence; 2) the Justice Department has been asked to adjudicate, as a result of FOIA requests (because Larry Klayman is just sure, sure, sure that the smoking gun that will allow him to successfully sue his mother this time or something is in them), the classification of materials prior to release that is being contested between State and the CIA. What is not in dispute, despite how its been spun (by the former NSA staffer suspended from his job at and under investigation by Naval War College for sending people pictures of his genitals), is that at the time that the emails were sent to Secretary Clinton or she forwarded them along, none of the materials was classified. The Intelligence Community (IC) is now arguing, as they often do when pre-release reviews of FOIA material are conducted, that there are a set number of emails that need to be retroactively reclassifed as Secret, Top Secret, and/or Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information, So this is a dispute between a) the IC and the State Department and b) between the IC and the potential next president – basically its turf marking and sending the message of who is really in charge. This happens all the time as part of the bureaucratic infighting within the Interagency; 3) We no know that every previous Secretary of State and some of their staff/senior staff had the exact same issues. It doesn’t excuse anything, but this is how the Department of State has been run since the inception of email usage up until the change of policy and rules that began when Secretary Kerry because Secretary of State. No one is going to indict Colin Powell or Condoleezza Rice or Madeline Albright over this, they aren’t going to indict Hillary Clinton over it; 4) Finally we now know as a result of all of this that the Department of State’s official unclassified servers and email system were incredibly vulnerable to cyber attack, were breached several times, and as a result of Secretary Clinton using her own server (regardless of the political optics of that) none of the email that she was handling directly was accessed when State’s servers were breached.

    Explaining this in a news report is highly unlikely. Having a correspondent that actually understands the classification issues is also highly unlikely. Having someone explain that US government unclassified official email systems are prone to crashing and not working thereby forcing personnel to resort to their personal email addresses is likely completely beyond the pale. The stories I could tell about having to use my personal email for work because the work email was down or some knucklehead cancelled my account as part of a large policy change for term appointments, but didn’t tell anyone and it took six weeks to resolve. And because I had frontline supervisory status of four senior officers, including two foreign partner country generals, and was quadruple hatted as a deputy director for my higher headquarters and as cultural advisor for a different command, meant that I used my personal email. This was all unclassified, routine work related stuff. But the work had to be done and no one was going to tell me to ignore it – I had to be reachable. 24/7. Even on vacation and religious holidays. So you do what you have to do.

  112. 112.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    May 28, 2016 at 8:42 pm

    Austerity policies do more harm than good, IMF study concludes

  113. 113.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 28, 2016 at 8:42 pm

    @Mike J: heh. I started the argument because they were slagging Frank. Shared :)

  114. 114.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    May 28, 2016 at 8:43 pm

    @SarahT: He does have short fingers.

  115. 115.

    NotMax

    May 28, 2016 at 8:43 pm

    @EBT

    Methinks you mean schvantz.

    /de yiiddische pedant   ;)

  116. 116.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Was that the Once and Future Govern, Jerry Brown?

  117. 117.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 28, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: That’s ironic considering IMF and World Bank have pushed these on the countries they give out loans to.

  118. 118.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    May 28, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    @jl:
    I’m way over my head with most of what Thoma posts, but I try. He covers Krugman frequently and him I understand.

  119. 119.

    SarahT

    May 28, 2016 at 8:47 pm

    @efgoldman: Yup. Barney Frank does not suffer fools. Remember when he told some teabagger that talking to her would be like arguing with a dining room table ? God I love that man.

  120. 120.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 28, 2016 at 8:47 pm

    @EBT: that’s schvantz. Unless you’re saying he’s got an African American stashed somewhere down the front of his trousers.

  121. 121.

    lamh36

    May 28, 2016 at 8:48 pm

    @WaterGirl: Right, I have that issue too, I can’t watch Gary Sinise, Patricia Heaton or James Wood much at all now a days.

    I know it’s not fair, but I rather I never heard anything political from my fav stars…lol

  122. 122.

    Baud

    May 28, 2016 at 8:48 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks. The other day, some news show was trying to make a big deal of the fact that there were attempted hacks of Clinton’s servers, implying that Clinton was lying when she said that her servers were not actually hacked.

    They don’t learn because they don’t want to learn.

  123. 123.

    SarahT

    May 28, 2016 at 8:49 pm

    @opiejeanne: Squick ! Second time ever I’ve heard that term and I love it !

  124. 124.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 8:50 pm

    @Really?: I hate Yuma. My BIL lives there so we are obliged to visit the godforsaken place periodically. And now that his health is failing I wish he’d move some place more temperate so it didn’t feel like entering Hell just to see him.

  125. 125.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    May 28, 2016 at 8:50 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Was that the Once and Future Govern, Jerry Brown?

    That is correct.

    Trivia note: When I was born, Edmond G. Brown was Governor; when I graduated from UCLA, Edmond G. Brown was Governor(and his signature in on my diploma); and currently Edmond G. Brown is Governor.

  126. 126.

    TriassicSands

    May 28, 2016 at 8:51 pm

    Trump doesn’t believe or not believe everything he reads and sees on the Internet. It’s obvious that truth has no meaning to Trump. All that matters is can he use whatever it is to further his own interests, or more often and more satisfyingly, damage someone else. This is a man who has no ethical standards at all. If telling a lie gets him a vote, earns him a buck, or gets him an inch of type or a video clip in the media, he’ll do it without a second thought. Thought? I’m not sure that what Trump does could be called thinking.

  127. 127.

    PurpleGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 8:52 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Thanks for the information. I haven’t really looked at the numbers in a few years, that’s why I used the IIRC.

  128. 128.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 8:53 pm

    @lollipopguild: You know, the funniest comment I ever heard about Bob Dole was that he sounded like the scary trees in The Wizard of Oz.

    Now I still occasionally crack up by imagining a Scary Tree snarling, “How would you like it if BobDole picked apples off you?“!

  129. 129.

    Really?

    May 28, 2016 at 8:56 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Lady-Bond. The meme was from Gillian Anderson but I could totally see Charlize Theron or Emily Blunt as a new Bond.

    That’s the thing about that new Ghostbusters movie. I want to see kick-ass ladies but they can only do so much with the crap script. You could use the original cast (save Harold Ramis) and it would still be garbage. The outrage should be that it’s just a (probably) lazy, garbage movie like recent superhero movies.

    Here’s one — Colonial Marines was crap from start to finish and it sounded like Michael Biehn (literally) phoned it in. Anyway.

  130. 130.

    Anne Laurie

    May 28, 2016 at 8:56 pm

    @EBT: Not Trump’s ‘schwartz’ (black) his schwantz.

    (My personal guess would be one of those little garlic knots served at chichi places… two lumps topped with a little golden knob )

  131. 131.

    SarahT

    May 28, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    @efgoldman:
    @EBT Think you mean “schvantz”, right ? Either way, may Trump’s schvantz/schwartz NOT be with you.

  132. 132.

    SarahT

    May 28, 2016 at 8:59 pm

    @Anne Laurie: hahahahaeeeeeeew

  133. 133.

    MomSense

    May 28, 2016 at 8:59 pm

    @jl:

    Well Newt Gingrich on the ticket would cancel out the Bill’s affairs attack line.

  134. 134.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 9:00 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: When I was born Earl Warren was the Governor; when Goodwin Knight was running for office he kissed me when I was a baby. I have a vague recollection of something unpleasant along those lines.

  135. 135.

    smith

    May 28, 2016 at 9:01 pm

    @MomSense: Shouldn’t Trump being on the ticket nullify the Bill’s affairs attack line? Doesn’t seem to have worked so far.

  136. 136.

    SarahT

    May 28, 2016 at 9:01 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Tiny little fingers. Vienna sausage-esque.

  137. 137.

    Really?

    May 28, 2016 at 9:02 pm

    @opiejeanne: Ah yes, during that period there was one day where it reached one hundred and fif-fucking-teen degrees. The next day the twenty-five year old A/C broke…

  138. 138.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 9:03 pm

    @MomSense: Why wouldn’t Trump’s affairs cancel it out?

  139. 139.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 9:04 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: OK, but now you’ve explained that to *us*, who don’t know jack shit about any of this stuff, and explained it so we could understand it. And we’re nobody in nowhere, really. We’re just lucky that a source like you is here.

    But here’s the thing that kills me: Isn’t a reporter’s – hell, a news agency’s – job to figure out who the hell *can* enlighten them on stuff like this? Don’t they have contacts? Known experts, not just “sources”, that they can consult? And then, once they know, why the hell wouldn’t or couldn’t they report it exactly as you did?

    And yes – I now the cheap and easy answer is “because it doesn’t pay” or, “it’s too much trouble” or something even more base and banal. But I find myself feeling maddened that shit like this becomes such a HUGE ISSUE, and the same bs gets repeated over and over, and nothing new comes out of it – no elucidation, no history, no context, nothing but the same old gas – which, for a media that calls itself “the news”, seems even more insulting.

  140. 140.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    May 28, 2016 at 9:05 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Goodwin Knight was running for office he kissed me when I was a baby.

    I haven’t heard that name in years. He was a relative of mine by marriage. My grandmother heard that he was and traced it. Her research was pretty sound so I’m inclined to believe.

  141. 141.

    D58826

    May 28, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Seems to be a simple rule
    1. if it’s a Clinton its the crime of the century
    2. if it’s Obama its the crime of the decade
    3. if its a GOOPER – – – – – -crickets

  142. 142.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    @Really?: I lived in Riverside for 23 years. It got above 105 with regularity every summer and above 110 for a few days usually in early fall. The hottest day would always be the day of the brown-out or blackout, but also that evening was the one that every skunk in the neighborhood was advertising their whereabouts so you couldn’t just open the windows, which was SOP after 7pm in the summer.
    And it was still a lot better than Yuma.

  143. 143.

    hovercraft

    May 28, 2016 at 9:08 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
    It doesn’t matter how many times this is shown to be the case, they will still believe that St. Ronnies economic theory is the only way to go. Every prediction they have made in opposition to Obamanomics (Keyes) has failed to materialize. Inflation, high oil prices, crashing dollar, etc. Look at the results of austerity and low taxes Greece, Italy, Kansas, Louisiana, Wisconsin. All conservative policy/ theory cannot fail, it simply is never a pure enough form of conservatism.

  144. 144.

    sacrablue

    May 28, 2016 at 9:09 pm

    @opiejeanne: So very true. I live in one of those suburbs. It is now approximately 25% Russian speaking (lots of Ukrainians and other Russian speakers, now second and third generation). We have Russian speaking employees at our supermarkets now as well as ESL instructors in the elementary schools. I can’t go out on my morning walk without saying hello to about a dozen babushka ladies every day.

  145. 145.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    May 28, 2016 at 9:09 pm

    @MomSense: You’d think that Trump’s own affairs would do that.

  146. 146.

    opiejeanne

    May 28, 2016 at 9:09 pm

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Can you imagine naming a baby that? Goodwin Knight, Good Night? It still makes me laugh.

  147. 147.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 9:11 pm

    @Really?: Have you seen The Fall? Gillian Anderson’s character in that would be the perfect warm-up for “Lady Bond” – a powerful, emotionally-controlled older woman who just expects the young man who’s caught her eye to fall into her bed – and there’s absolutely no repercussion on her professionally. She’s that good.

    I could go on and on about that show, just for her performance. Yes, “Lady Bond” would turn the trope on its head, for sure.

  148. 148.

    Really?

    May 28, 2016 at 9:11 pm

    @opiejeanne: As a northerner that prefers a cooler climate I was overjoyed when we could go back into the house and it’s cool, crisp 90 degrees.

  149. 149.

    PurpleGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 9:11 pm

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: I tend to watch a number of true crime shows these days. The scripted drama shows became too unbelievable.

  150. 150.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    May 28, 2016 at 9:14 pm

    @jl:

    Trump is arguing that the “drought” is all a liberal con game on poor white residents of the state – much like all of the climate change fight is pushed by liberals to punish the energy and automobile industries- and that all that’s needed is forcing the commie socialist liberal evildoers to bend to his will.

    It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. All that matters is the bashing of the dreaded Other – tree-hugging multicultural soy-growing hybrid-driving hippies – the true threat to American greatness.

  151. 151.

    Really?

    May 28, 2016 at 9:19 pm

    @Miss Bianca: The thing with Lady-Bond is like A Few Good Men. Any other movie and Tom @ Demi are an item but I love it because of that. It’s why I love Mad Max because it’s such a direct shot to those MRA crybabies.

  152. 152.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 9:22 pm

    @Really?:

    It’s why I love Mad Max because it’s such a direct shot to those MRA crybabies.

    Are you talking Furiosa? I tried watching the original Mad Max movie and really disliked it – couldn’t finish it. But people who know these things say I don’t need to have seen or appreciated that one to appreciate “Fury Road.”

  153. 153.

    Matt McIrvin

    May 28, 2016 at 9:23 pm

    @jl: Even ignoring all the other problems with Trump, this is Exhibit A for why this man should not be allowed anywhere near the White House. It’s the sin against reality, the flat denial of what is the case in favor of some more personally attractive version of the world. And reality will kick your ass.

  154. 154.

    Carl W

    May 28, 2016 at 9:24 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    It’s obvious that truth has no meaning to Trump. All that matters is can he use whatever it is to further his own interests, or more often and more satisfyingly, damage someone else. This is a man who has no ethical standards at all. If telling a lie gets him a vote, earns him a buck, or gets him an inch of type or a video clip in the media, he’ll do it without a second thought.

    I was shocked 8 years ago when Sarah Palin would say something on camera, and then two days later say “I never said that”. Are there other recent politicians, besides Palin and Trump, that don’t care enough about the truth to even tell consistent lies?

    Also: every story that quotes Trump should have a disclaimer: “These Trump quotes are presumably just a suggestion, and should in no way be considered to represent any views Trump may actually possess.”

  155. 155.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 28, 2016 at 9:24 pm

    @Miss Bianca: The short answer is no one cares. Or almost no one cares. Its not about reporting out the information correctly or getting the story right. Its about eyeballs on advertisement.

  156. 156.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 28, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Ever driven through rural Texas? Then you’ve seen both Mad Max and The Road Warrior.

  157. 157.

    smith

    May 28, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Its about eyeballs on advertisement.

    Which is why it’s so infuriating that NPR so often doesn’t bother to get it right. Or do those underwriters maybe have more influence than they claim?

  158. 158.

    Really?

    May 28, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Yeah, Charlize Theron and her crew just killed it. I cannot believe how one could go through life being threatened/terrified of women. That’s not even including Sigourney Weaver

  159. 159.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 28, 2016 at 9:33 pm

    @Carl W: Vice President wannabe Newt Gingrich has pulled that stunt, claiming that anyone who quoted him on something with tape of him saying it was lying.

  160. 160.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 9:33 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Then, woe for the republic.

    I try to tell myself that maybe 18th century newspapers were as bad or worse, and I can’t convince myself. But maybe they were. Maybe they stirred up the element that just wanted to fuck shit up, then as now – more into an excuse to tar and feather someone they don’t like, than weighing more complex issues like “representation.”. But I don’t think the Revolution could have succeeded without newspapers that gave as much weight to fact and argument, as to innuendo and scandal, when it printed.

  161. 161.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 28, 2016 at 9:33 pm

    @smith: Its that NPR isn’t really public anymore. The Bush 43 Administration did a number on how public broadcasting is funded. They need people to donate even more during pledge week and they need the very wealthy to keep making grants. So nothing that is going to upset anyone will be reported and balance must be achieved.

  162. 162.

    redshirt

    May 28, 2016 at 9:36 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Someone sent up the Mad Max alert?

    Yes, you can easily appreciate Fury Road without having watched any of the previous movies. And yes, Furiosa is a bad ass hero, the best female action hero since Weaver’s Ripley.

  163. 163.

    PurpleGirl

    May 28, 2016 at 9:36 pm

    @opiejeanne: IOKYAR. Before Reagan, supposedly a divorced man couldn’t become president.

  164. 164.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 9:38 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, yes and no. Because yes, I have driven through rural Texas, and no, because when i did (which took days), I drove mostly at night, and avoided contact with the locals, for the most part. So being menaced by crazed male biker types just didn’t enter it into it.

    Tho’ I *did* have the right vehicle for the role, had I managed to stumble into Mad Max Tejas-Stylee: ’67 Chevy Van, baby!

  165. 165.

    redshirt

    May 28, 2016 at 9:39 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Maybe the 18th and 19th century newspapers were worse, but none of them ever had the reach or the influence of today’s media.

  166. 166.

    Matt McIrvin

    May 28, 2016 at 9:42 pm

    @Miss Bianca: The first Mad Max is really in a different subgenre from the other movies–it’s more a brutal Seventies-style revenge/rogue-cop thriller along the lines of Death Wish or Dirty Harry, with a mildly futuristic-dystopian angle.

    The second one, Mad Max 2 aka The Road Warrior, is the one that really sets the tone and look of the series. At that point they become more Westerns, with the post-civilization outback in place of the Old West. They’re still very violent, but in some ways actually less nihilistic. The third one, Beyond Thunderdome (the one with Tina Turner), is less wall-to-wall action and more story. It seems to be the least well-regarded of the lot, but I kind of appreciate what it was trying to do on its own terms.

    You don’t need to see any of them to understand Fury Road, which is nominally a fourth movie in the series but really more like a soft reboot. It goes in the opposite direction from Thunderdome, strips down the story to the absolute bare bones and amps up the action to an intentionally ridiculous degree. And Charlize Theron’s character is the actual hero; Max is a decidedly secondary POV character.

  167. 167.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 28, 2016 at 9:48 pm

    @Miss Bianca: You were clearly doing it wrong then. Please go back immediately and try again. You will have one hour to complete this portion of the test. Make no stray marks in the test booklet.

  168. 168.

    Ruckus

    May 28, 2016 at 9:49 pm

    @opiejeanne:
    The only reason socal is/was a Mediterranean climate is because of the imported water. It already is a desert with out that water. It wasn’t as bad when there were 10.6 million people in the state (1950) but today with over 40 million water is and will always be an issue.

  169. 169.

    Really?

    May 28, 2016 at 9:50 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Goddammit. Mad Max: Fury Road is the best action move of the last decade as Company of Heroes is the greatest RTS before Valve screwed the pony.

  170. 170.

    Matt McIrvin

    May 28, 2016 at 10:01 pm

    @Really?: The movie has a special place in my heart just for the spiny high-speed combat backhoe.

  171. 171.

    ThresherK

    May 28, 2016 at 10:04 pm

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Oh, fck Brooke Gladstone.

    Someone needs to get rid of that show because it is taking up whatever air there is for a real media crit show on NPR. And a replacement would be almost better, merely by default.

  172. 172.

    Miss Bianca

    May 28, 2016 at 10:05 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: My dear sir, pray don’t take it amiss when I assure you that’s that’s a test I am *more* than happy to fail.

  173. 173.

    Ruckus

    May 28, 2016 at 10:09 pm

    @opiejeanne:
    Couldn’t remember that you lived in CA long ago.
    Yes that 69 storm was a doozy. Remember driving over one bridge near Glendora that normally had a trickle of water, maybe a foot in a normal storm. The water level was lapping the bottom of the bridge and I’d bet it was well over 15 feet deep, which considering the norm. Also all the settling basins in the San Gabriel valley were full and all the drainage washes were at flood stage as well as the LA river. Lot of water in a short time. Have been driving in TX when it rained like that. Couldn’t see more than about 10 ft it rained so hard.

  174. 174.

    Ruckus

    May 28, 2016 at 10:30 pm

    @opiejeanne:
    Lots and lots of places are better than Yuma. Even San Berdo.

  175. 175.

    Anne Laurie

    May 28, 2016 at 10:40 pm

    @PurpleGirl: I actually like medical dramas for the stories (even if they’re never 100% politics-free, they have such a range of possibilities). ER got me hooked — if you go back & watch the first couple seasons, you understand that George Clooney was destined to become a Big Star — not every season was perfect, but there were so many good actors with so many good scripts over 15 years…

    Right now they’ve just wrapped the first season of Dick Wolf’s CHICAGO MED, which will no doubt run forever, because Dick Wolf. Sub-arc on the last show was the hot ex-Navy doc with Afghanistan-related PTSD (Ethan Choi) accidentally ‘adopting’ a parrot with PTSD (recovered from a hoarder), at the advice of Oliver Platt’s wise emergency-center psychiatrist (who in a previous show covered the difficulties of acknowledging that he suffers from depression, when he tries tapering off his meds because of side effects… )

    CODE BLACK is even better, but it’s not as “safe” ratings-wise (although I was very cheered that CBS has picked it up for a second season, at least).

  176. 176.

    redshirt

    May 28, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: HYDRAULICS!!

  177. 177.

    Feathers

    May 28, 2016 at 11:08 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I am reminded of how Bruce Schneier’s truism that people won’t follow a security protocol that doesn’t let them get their job done.

    “We have to make people understand the risks,” he said. It seems to me that his co-workers understand the risks better than he does. They know what the real risks are at work, and that they all revolve around not getting the job done. Those risks are real and tangible, and employees feel them all the time. The risks of not following security procedures are much less real.

    I think the sentence at the end particularly applies to the Clinton situation:

    So whenever you see someone in a situation who you think doesn’t understand the risks, stop first and make sure you understand the risks. You might be surprised.

    Clinton was more worried about her personal emails falling into the hands of some internal wingnut “hero” in the State IT department than she was getting hacked by malicious foreign actors. And she hired someone more capable of protecting her emails than State hired to guard theirs. Although, TBQH, hardening one server is so much easier than handling ALL the servers to make that an unfair comparison.

    But it is the essence of the vast right wing conspiracy – take the sort of normal, completely human fuck up that will naturally occur in any large human endeavor, and blow it up until it is the most monstrous, horrible, evil thing that it could not have been accomplished by anything other than sheer, willful wickedness. While ignoring actual active wrongdoing, done with malice, but complicated to explain, things that Republican Presidents and Vice-Presidents do.

    I think the actual anger going on is – yes, there are things that you would be fired for doing that the CEO of your company does all the time. Somehow that is all projected onto the Clintons.

    The Schneier quotes are from: People Understand Risks — But Do Security Staff Understand People?

  178. 178.

    opiejeanne

    May 29, 2016 at 2:07 am

    @Ruckus: No, I don’t think that’s correct. The Mediterranean climate idea goes way back to before 1900, before water was brought down from the Owens River.

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