While wingnuts and the most idiotic BernieBros are waiting to see if the FBI indicts Hillary Clinton for not understanding how email works, the other presumptive nominee is an actual defendant in an ongoing civil suit. Dare we hope that the Trump University scam will start to garner media coverage equivalent to Emailghazi?
I’ve thought not since the Beltway media has thus far been complicit in normalizing outrageous behavior by Trump — what’s a civil suit for fraud between friends? But that was before Trump started whining about the Indiana-born “Mexican” judge who is handling the case:
A federal judge is ordering the release of Trump University internal documents in a class-action lawsuit against the now-defunct real estate school owned by presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump…
The Post reported that [U.S. District Judge Gonzalo] Curiel’s order to release an estimated 1,000 pages of documents cites heightened public interest in Trump and that he had “placed the integrity of these court proceedings at issue.”
We can safely assume Trump won’t draw the obvious lesson from the judge’s order, which is “shut your goddamned pie-hole.” And that’s okay; please proceed, bag of pumpkin-spiced dicks.
But will the DC press corps comb through the tawdry details of that document dump as methodically as they’ve parsed every boring-ass comment, report, speculation and excerpt pertaining to Secretary Clinton’s email? Here’s hoping.
Baud
Trump will probably appeal, which would delay the release.
Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter
Needs a “-gate” name… or a mean-spirited nickname (it is 2016, after all…)
Scamming Donny is being sued for fraud…
RandomMonster
You’re just awesome.
Baud
@Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter: Fraudgate.
Mike J
Apparently Clinton understood email better than the State department. Her server never got hacked, State’s was completely pwnd.
Kathleen
I’m not holding my breath about the media.
Unabogie
No. What have they done over the last ten years that says they’ll actually do they their jobs now?
amk
Both the rethugs and their media minions have been scamming like this for over 30 years without much blowback. So why would they change now?
Corner Stone
This private email server thing…it’s just too much for me. I wanted to just shrug it off but as more and more comes out on it, this seems really serious y’all. I know she said looking back it was a mistake but since she’s been literally running for president for just about forever can we really just handwave this away? I can not any longer. It’s too much.
I dismissed Whitewater and Filegate and Travelgate and Blowjobgate and the Rose Law Firm files and cattle trading and Vince Foster’s questionable passing. But this? It just rings true after the IG’s report and I.Am.Done.With.Her.
Greg Ferguson
Likely not, because they – the DC press corps – can’t be bothered to do even minimal homework or, if they did, stand up to the editors who would call “bias” on statements of fact, e.g., Trump is a lying mofo [well-documented] attempting to sway opinion in an ongoing case against himself. WTF will it take for the press to backbone it? Trump mobs at the courthouse door? Wouldn’t surprise me, and even that may not be enough – I despair.
Adam L Silverman
He actually start the “the Judge is a hater, hate, hate, hater” schtick at a rally last November. So while it certainly looks coincidental, the order releasing the documents in response to The Washington Post’s filing is likely unrelated. Though it is schadenfreudenly delicious. As I indicated in the comments to the late night thread last night, I read through all 181 or so pages of the deposition that burnespbesq posted. He answers questions in the same, talking to formulate an answer and convince everyone by using persuasion catchphrases to mentally hook them, in his deposition responses as we’ve seen him do everywhere else for the past year. And I’m pretty sure the plaintiffs attorneys have got him boxed in at about a half dozen places with their questions. These aren’t perjury traps, rather they’re going to slam him on the inconsistencies of what he says in public about how he does business – micromanaging a small team of rivals, but making all the decisions himself – versus what he answered in the depositions – completely hands off boss who is too busy running so many initiatives to ever be bothered interfering with his trusted subordinates who are all top people doing the right things so he doesn’t need to micromanage them.
Corner Stone
“Clinton losing election, or Trump winning it?”
An actual chyron on MSNBC just now. I think that should put paid to the speculation that the media will actually be any better.
Corner Stone
BTW, I have discovered the absolute perfect name. “Duck Mango”. I have no idea what I will use it for but it just screams awesome success in some undetermined field for the future.
liberal
Those with power [Trump] always get normalized.” Unless they’re left of center, of course.
Ruckus
@Unabogie:
First, it’s been longer than 10 yrs.
Second, they are doing their job. It’s just that you (and many, many others including me) think their job is one thing and the people who pay them expect something else. Pay wins. We blame the “journalists” but they are the symptom, not the disease.
Greg Ferguson
@Mike J:
Yup – doesn’t seem to have been an issue disturbing Colin Powell’s sleep, either.
Corner Stone
Also too, to pile on B Crack’s tomato bleg earlier, I have a whole bushel of habanero pepps and a half pot of assorted peppers like Jalapeno, chili, Thai chili, and others. Going to pickle some hot vegetables and also do a “hellish hash” pickled pepper relish.
Any other good pickling suggestions for hot peppers?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
A couple of summary sites about the two lawsuits against Trump University are here:
http://zhlaw.com/cases/trump-university/
http://www.trumpuniversitylitigation.com/
They don’t seem to have the absolute latest, but seem pretty comprehensive otherwise.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Corner Stone
@liberal: I like Billmon just fine but he has really hit the wall this primary season.
Emma
I am sick and tired of the media but I am even more sick and tired of liberals. Sick and tired of how many are willing to swallow the half-truths, and the veiled accusations. Sick and tired of the “even if it was done by every person in the Universe before her, only Hillary is automatically guilty” mindset. Sick and tired of their willingness to toss away the only credible chance we have to stop a disaster of Krakatoa proportions in this country. You’re done with Hillary? Fine. Go away. Write in Bernie or Stein or Gonzo the Muppet for all I care. Just get the hell out of the way and let us at least try.
liberal
@amk: it was certainly like this in the 80s.
Only difference is that the Rethuglicans are even further to the right now.
burnspbesq
@Baud:
I’m not a litigator, so I may be misremembering stuff from a very-long-ago Civ Pro class, but wouldn’t an interlocutory appeal of an order like this be at the discretion of the District Court? Is there an appeal as of right from a decision not to certify an interlocutory appeal? If yes, what’s the standard of review (my guess would be abuse of discretion)?
Which is a roundabout way of suggesting that Trump may be bleeding from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the foot, and Jeff Bezos may get the last laugh (recall that this all started with WaPo intervening in the case to request the unsealing of the docs).
Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter
@Ruckus: Don’t hate the playa…
Betty Cracker
@Adam L Silverman: If I’m reading the WaPo excerpt correctly, the judge himself cited the fact that Trump “placed the integrity of these court proceedings at issue” as a reason for releasing the documents. So whether in response to something Trump said last week or last year, Trump’s own big fat mouth played a role.
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
Four Secretaries of State did substantially the same thing over a 15-year period. The takeaway from the IG report should be that State’s IT infrastructre is FUBAR. Why are we not screaming at Congressional Republicans for not appropriating the $ to fix it?
Corner Stone
@Emma: It’s just too much. After all this smoke, surely there has to be fire somewhere? And with Obama’s hand-picked FBI Director Comey in charge of official leaking, shouldn’t we prepare ourselves for some choice damning information to come out?
I did not want to, but she made me. Her reckless disregard for societal norms and standard protocol have pushed me into contacting my state delegates to let them know they should support Bernie on the convention floor. At this point I will buy a ticket to Philly if I have to get that message across. Disagree if you like, but that just means you are objectively pro-President Trump.
liberal
@Corner Stone: BWAHAHAHAHA
IIRC you’ve liked Hill since long before the primary season, right?
D58826
There is still hope:
http://gizmodo.com/swarms-of-octopus-are-taking-over-the-world-s-oceans-1777790453
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: May I offer a bit of perspective on this? And if you don’t want it, please just ignore the rest. Here go’s: using a private email server was SOP for her immediate predecessors at State. I would not be surprised if, when she was doing the handoff from outgoing Secretary Rice this didn’t come up as “how we do this”. There are a few reason that Secretaries Powell and Rice did this. They include that the Secretary of State has to be reachable 24/7, and that includes by email. And US government unclassified email systems, even for remote access with a CAC card reader, are notoriously difficult and kludgey. So establishing a separate email system that just works and that only those working for you, and trusted outsiders have access to, makes a certain amount of sense because it makes one reachable 24/7, where the official ones don’t. US government tech initiatives are, because of the nature of the contracting and servicing requirements built in to ensure proper and fair competition, appropriate security safeguards, and because of the nature of governmental contracting, way, way behind the tech curve. So if you want access to 21st Century tech, you’re not going to get it within the US government. I’m not trying to dump on anyone working in those areas for the US government, but they know just how behind the eightball we are because of the realities of the budgeting cycle, contracting, and other protocols.
The IG report, just as the Justice Department has found, noted that the same issues, of retroactive classification due to review pending FOIA request release, have also been found with emails from and to Secretaries Powell, Rice, and their senior staffers. None of this stuff is particularly a new problem or issue. Nor is it really much of an issue at all. And had Secretary Clinton decided last year that she’d done more than she enough for the country and she was ready to spend the time just being Hillary Clinton, working on charitable and philanthropic initiatives, and being a grandmother none of this would have even been a blip. No one is going to indict Secretaries Powell or Rice or their senior staff and no one is going to do so with Secretary Clinton. This is only an issue because she’s running for president. Congressman McCarthy gave the game away last Autumn, which is part of the reason he’s not the Speaker of the House right now.
liberal
@D58826: hope? Trump (I.e., Cthulhu) is part octopus.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
Pepper spray. It will be helpful after the Trump-driven collapse of civilization.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: But they didn’t set up separate servers and that is where the discrepancy lies, is it not?
Adam L Silverman
@Betty Cracker: I’m sure it helped, but I’m not sure the timing really mattered. Trump, because he can’t help himself, has been publicly spouting off about this particular judge for the past six months. My guess is that the WaPo filing had dates, times, locations, and quotes of when he’s publicly brought it up during the campaign.
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
my guess would be abuse of discretion
I am about as far away from a lawyer as one can get but this sounds correct. And if I remember much that I’ve read, courts are not very inclined to take that discretion away from a judge unless he/she steps about 20 ft past the line or goes against much precedent and can not show a valid reasoning.
Barbara
@Baud: I am assuming these are documents that are part of some kind of record that were filed under seal. There is a huge presumption against sealing materials in federal litigation. If he tries to appeal, he will likely run into a kind of procedural wall, but again, if what the judge is doing is irregular, who knows. Also, something I have noticed, the Washington Post, from its columnists to its journalists to its editorial board to its owner all seem to “get” the difference between Trump and other politicians, and perceive him as much more of an existential threat than, say, the New York Times, and some of its resident dodo brains like Maureen Dowd. Others, like Gail Collins, are pretty clear about Trump. I expect it will be harder for columnists like Dowd to sit on the fence trying to hang onto power the way other elected Republican officials are doing. Basically, their guiding principle seems to be, “nothing is worse than losing power.” But they are still better than this guy, from an article in yesterday’s NYT who basically said he thought that even if Trump’s Nazi tendencies came to fruition it would give life more drama and interests. This was a guy in California who says he is a Sanders supporter. I am not blaming Sanders for this, but it does give you a little insight into the craziness of some of his fans.
Unabogie
@Corner Stone: Some of your better snark.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: Listen, I get the “Little Johnnie down the block did the same thing” defense and mentality. But is this really the kind of judgement and decision making we want in the WH?
Uncle Cosmo
@Emma:
Cosign. Va via, Coroner Stoned!
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Corner Stone: State Department background briefing on leaked IG report:
OMG!!!1 She didn’t leave 550 pounds of paper (110 reams at 5 pounds per ream) and three file cabinets (roughly 20,000 pages per cabinet) to dump hard copy printouts of her e-mails in a timely manner! We better elect Donnie!!11 Only he can save us from this Corruption™!!1
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
liberal
@Adam L Silverman: when I worked at a very prominent Federal research institute, we used Exchange, had PKI set up and working, etc. Didn’t seem way behind the times.
D58826
@Corner Stone: Yep the FBI director is really in the tank to cover up for hillary. Oh wait are we talking this James Comey?
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: I have been wanting to make the Homemade Hot Ciardiniera recipe since jefferyw posted it last year: The Pepper Relish recipe is one that TaMara posted recently, I think.
Homemade Hot Giardiniera
Pepper Relish
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Does anyone on the Morning Joe/Politico/Sunday Show axis of Derp ever express any curiosity about what might have been in Colin Powell’s emails as we stumbled and bumbled our way to Bagdad?
Emma
@Corner Stone: Your call. If you really think that Candidate Bernie can beat Candidate Trump I have a good bridge for sale, right over the Hudson, toll rights included. If you really think that Ignorant-of-Latin-America-and-friend-of leftist-dictatorships Bernie can turn out the Latino vote, you’re outright delusional. If you think African-Americans will turn out to vote for a man who has dismissed them and their interests, you have a reservation in the Arkham Assylum. But you do what you need to do.
Adam L Silverman
@burnspbesq: Its not just the dollars to fix it. Because of the acquisition cycle within government, and the sheer size and scope of what has to be done, combined with the contractor provisions, this stuff always takes forever and the final deliverables are always two or three generations behind where we should be by the time they are delivered. And even if everything goes right something usually doesn’t work. I remember when they transitioned everyone in the DOD to the new mail.mil enterprise email system. The two domestic US backbones wouldn’t talk to each other. My duty station had trouble off and on for months. Sometimes it could only be solved by getting a new CAC card with new authorizations. Sometimes that fixed one problem and created others. In my case I went through four CAC cards in under a month and untold hours of watching one of the tech guys try to fix things only to come back with: your certs aren’t working, you need a new CAC card. The next guy to work on it developed a work around that crashed with the next system update, necessitating another trip to the ID office. If I’m recalling correctly when the DOJ had their system updated in the 90s, it took over a decade to do it, had a huge cost overrun, and when the new system was finally delivered it was at least five years out of date and obsolete.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: They did. Both Secretaries Powell and Rice’s email was run through a separate server from the official State Department one. In fact all the Bush 43 Administration officials had separate email accounts through a separate server established under orders from Deputy Chief of Staff for Strategy Karl Rove.
ETA: As a Deputy Attorney General in the Bush 43 Administration, current FBI Director Comey would have most likely had one of these alternate email accounts too.
Corner Stone
@D58826:
“He was the United States Deputy Attorney General, serving in President George W. Bush’s administration.”
Good God. He was in the GWB administration!? Then why in the hell did Obama pick him to lead the FBI, for God’s sake?
liberal
@Corner Stone: Nah. We want the kind of judgement that leads one to conclude that voting for the Iraq AUMF was a good idea, or that overthrowing Qaddafi was a good idea, or that establishing no-fly zones in a Russian client state is a good idea.
That said…I’m a single issue voter.
D58826
@Adam L Silverman: Sure your not talking about the F-35?
Betty Cracker
@Unabogie: Yep. Had me going for all of one nano-second!
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman:
Sorry. I get you’re doing your best here but Alex Whitt on MSNBC just informed myself and everyone else that the difference in precedence between HRC and all other SOS’s is the fact that HRC ran her emails through a separate email server.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: I’ve laid out what happened and why. I’ve also explained why it would or could be perceived as a necessary work around to ensure communication fidelity 24/7. I’ve also explained here, repeatedly, that this was not against policy, let alone the law, prior to the end of 2012 as the rules changed shortly before Secretary Kerry became Secretary of State. If you want to be incensed and go to Philadelphia and try to make a scene, knock yourself out. Have a blast. Enjoy.
D58826
@Corner Stone: You prefer Trump? Or the guy who thought taking a honeymoon in Moscow at the height of the cold war while saying nice things about the Castros has good judgement?
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman:
This doesn’t make any sense. Surely she broke the law and is about to be indicted any day now?
Adam L Silverman
@liberal: Then you were very, very fortunate. I spent the better part of four years on my last mobilization assignment/term appointment fighting with email issues. As did many of my colleagues. We had constantly slow server issues. There would be multiple days in a row where the systems would just lock up and stay that way. We were, fortunately, authorized to telework, so while that meant we could go home and work where our computers wouldn’t freeze up every five minutes, it still meant you couldn’t access the work servers. And often our official emails too. Even when issued with an official laptop, the VPN back in didn’t work half the time. It was what it was.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@liberal: State is roughly a $66B a year agency with nearly 70,000 people (probably not counting contractors) according to Wikipedia. You don’t just throw an Exchange server in the basement for something that large and complex.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
smith
@liberal: When I worked for the VA we had those things, and it was slow and kludgy. It was particularly difficult to communicate with others outside the federal system. The VA suffered some data losses while I worked there, and became very strict about enforcing data security. One part of my job was to oversee compliance with data security policy for VA research, so I had to become familiar at a word-for-word level with the policy. Some aspects of it were literally (and I mean that literally) impossible to follow. Different departments have different approaches, so this varies somewhat across the federal system, but the barriers Adam cited above, combined with the complexity of the federal government and the number of employees it has, make strict adherence a challenge and often a moving target.
Corner Stone
@D58826: I’ve never been to Moscow but hear it’s crazy capitalism expensive. Is it nice there in the summer?
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: I believe you are being trolled by Corner Stone. I’m pretty sure Corner Stone has been in the bag for Hillary since the beginning of time.
shorter: Corner Stone is just fucking with you.
Corner Stone
@WaterGirl: I thought I was…but this email server thing…damn.
D58826
@Corner Stone: Well given that the state dept. server was hacked and Hillary’s apparently wasn’t maybe it was a smart move.
Many many years ago an aide to President Eisenhower accepted a vicuna coat as a gift. It was a major scandal, even in the pre-internet/cablenews world. Ike survive to finish his term and by some strange quirk of fate the country survived. Fifty years from now the e-mail server will be remembered like the vicuna coat – A trivia question.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Adam L Silverman: CS is stirring the pot. It’s hard to tell with him sometimes, but it’s pretty clear here…
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@D58826: At this point, from what I’ve seen of the Federal acquisitions and contracting process, its a multi-tool for an answer. You can apply it in a lot of places. Such as for the F-35, the Strategic Strike Paperweight!
SRW1
@Corner Stone:
Maybe the reason was the Gonzales/Ashcroft hospital episode:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/15/AR2007051500864.html
Caused quite a bit of stir at the time.
Groucho48
Reckless disregard? As the report shows, 90 high level staffers under 3 SoS occasionally or frequently used personal email accounts. And those email accounts presumably went to public email severs, like hotmail. Talk about insecure! Powell used personal email AND destroyed all of it. The Bush Administration blatantly used the RNC email system, which is actually contrary to the law, for White House emails and then destroyed them when it appeared they would be used against them.
It is not as if her choice was her own server or a secure, well-maintained, easy to use, consolidated system. The SD set-up was primitive, not very secure, hard to use and its protocol for backing up secure documents was to print them out and store them somewhere.
Oh, and let’s not forget all those Republican Governors who also used non-governmental email servers and then destroyed the emails after they left office. Romney. Perry, Walker, just to name a few.
As near as I can tell from skimming the report, she was criticized for two things. One is that she didn’t turn over official emails as she left office, as she was supposed to, and the other is that she didn’t have her computer inspected to see if it was secure enough for certain types of high level secret documents.
The IG report and the group responsible for collecting the emails indicate that her not turning them over right away was a no-no but a minor one as she did turn them over when asked. The lack of inspection is more troubling but it doesn’t mean her server wasn’t secure…It was Bill Clinton’s server first and it was set up to be secure and they say they kept the security measures updated. It also had 24 hour Secret Service protection. And, in reality, SD servers were hacked. Her’s weren’t.
For the folks who claim this is just beyond the pale, off the top of your head, how many SoS through history have turned over all their official correspondence as they left office? As a hint, I will mention that Kissinger kept all his and donated it specifically to ensure it wasn’t subject to FOIA requests. Also, how many of them have kept all their emails, letters, memos, etc., in secure areas at the State Department 24/7 for their entire term? I would suspect the answer is much, much closer to none of them than it is to all of them.
smith
@SRW1: And somehow no one was indicted…
D58826
@Corner Stone: Hot. you really want to do it in the winter. Go out side and wait for the non-existent cab service and you freeze to the curb in less than a minute. But The Donald is working with Putin to start cruse ship service to Murmansk in January.
Emma
@Corner Stone: You sob. Performance art at its finest. This’ll teach me not to post when I have a sinus headache and meds aren’t helping.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Groucho48: Nit: The 22M missing W e-mails were eventually found.
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@smith: When I went TDY to Ft. Hood to assist III Corps for more than a week they assigned me an office, because they wanted me to be able to access their systems. I couldn’t log in to the unclassified system. Turns out my authorizations only worked, unless specifically appended, on the Eastern US tech backbone because of where my home station was. So off to the G6/Comm Shop. After they figured it out, I had to have my CAC card redone to get the authorizations sorted. Fixed the problem. No one was quite sure if it would work when I got back to my home station. It wasn’t like I was logging in from Mars. My home station was in PA and Hood is in Texas. This type of stuff happens all the time. And I’ve got even better and more frustrating stories too!
D58826
@WaterGirl: well even if he is, he has gotten a few reply’s that give the rest of us a better understanding of how things work (or not) in Washington. And remember the nickname for the State Dept is Foggy Bottom.
Besides you are insulting my niece’s employer.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: @Corner Stone: I have come around to that way of thinking after his last two comments.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: You could pickle them Indian style. It involves a dry rub and oil. Or you could dry them in the oven or in the sun and grind it into pepper flakes as needed.
D58826
@Adam L Silverman: Spread them out over the next few weeks. To much overload for one day. Thank the FSM that the Nazi/Soviets were even more screwed up than us.
smith
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I hadn’t seen that! Those emails are going to be dynamite if/when they are ever made available to the public. Probably not in my lifetime, though.
D58826
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Conveniently after he left office..
Corner Stone
@schrodinger’s cat:
I’m intrigued. Tell me moar.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
I worked for a private company that had the exact same problems. And there were 90 employees. The problems of the government are due to size and organization as you state. But never underestimate shear stupidity either. For example I had to purchase a network system, 4 computers, routers, etc. Had to get a quote in Aug, budget approved in Sept, purchasing after Jan, system had to be up and running at end of Feb. In Jan the computers approved no longer existed, they had been replaced by cheaper more capable ones. I was not allowed to purchase the better replacements because those had not been approved months before they existed.
Shantanu Saha
@Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter: Trumpghazi.
Oldgold
This email bs reminds of the lame-ass Budhist Templegate scam the usual suspects ran against Gore.
That helped us get the disaster that was W.
Glidwrith
@liberal:
This isn’t directly a response to you, but more a general commentary on folks blaming Clinton for that vote. As I recall, Bush advisors were literally begging Bush to wait for Congressional authorization instead of invading purely on his own authority. I also recall the country in general wanting to skin alive anyone who dared naysay invading Iraq. Last, 82 Democrats in the House and a majority of Democratic Senators (29 for/21 against) voted for it as well. Clinton didn’t do it on her own and voting against it wouldn’t have stopped the horror that followed. I think a great deal of our inability to stop Bush and his torturing war criminal buddies has been transferred to Clinton’s shoulders. Why exactly is she bearing all of that burden? Why is the subtext of all the crap that Bush’s administration pulled never voiced and the blame placed squarely on the shoulders of the people who carried out those actions?
Barbara
@liberal: It depends on when it was set up, how much official correspondence there is and so on. For agencies like State, which go back to the dawn of creation and generate reams of official correspondence, email is very hard to deal with in terms of what needs to be archived, by whom and where and how, to create a permanent record. I mean, I no longer work for the government and occasionally I get heartburn about what I would do if I were required to go back and reconstruct matters for someone. This is why some people never delete anything, because they don’t know how to maintain an electronic record, and the paper file barely exists. We get all kinds of pressure from our IT people to purge, until finally someone told them to back off because so many people were “losing” things because of an insane autodestruction policy. We are not supposed to use personal PCs or servers, but some people do, especially when IT can’t seem to get its act together in providing reliable remote alternatives. If you are not dealing with these issues, good for you, but a lot of different businesses are.
ericblair
@liberal:
I used to work in the defense side of the federal government on mobile comms. In my recollection, you didn’t have a lot of options in DoD or DoS until about 2013, when Blackberry was certified for unclassified communications. For classified voice, there was a thing called a SME PED, which weighed a ton and used 2G networks. People used to complain about it pulling their pants down when they had it on their belts. Essentially unless you were the President or on one of the VIP aircraft the solutions were in practice almost unusable.
People at all levels did what they had to do to get the mission done, and you had to weigh the risk of interception against the impact of loss of communications. My understanding was that Clinton asked about a secure system like the Presidential services and got told no. Now there’s a program to implement iOS and Android for secure comms unclassified and classified, but it’s new and scaling up is slow.
Groucho48
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Ah! I did not know that.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: Not buying it!
edit: did you see the two pepper recipes I posted? (both from jefferyw) let me know if you make either of them, i have to wait until my pepper crop comes in before I can try them.
Librarian
@Corner Stone: Because Democrats always have to be nice and bipartisany, while Republicans can do whatever the fuck they want.
Helen
@WaterGirl: He be messing with us.
A Ghost To Most
@WaterGirl:
That’s the old BJ we know and love.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
Whitewater, Rose law firm, travelgate, cattle futures, Monica and her blue dress are all witch hunts, that involve no illegal activities, with the exception of lying about a blowjob. Find me anyone who doesn’t lie about sex and I’ll show you a liar.
Fast and furious, the whitey tape, male prostitution, IRS, Benghazi, and anything else that Darrel Issa ever dreamed up are just as valid scandals as those listed above. The GOP mo is to turn any questionable decision made by a democratic president into the greatest scandal of all time, and proof of their corruption.
The fact that the media is anxious to play along with the game does not make it anymore valid.
EDIT So my snark meter was off. Sorry.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: First you need to make a spice mix or an achar masala or lonchyacha masala.
Ingredients vary but typically you have ground mustard, asesfotida, cayenne, turmeric and sea salt (or kosher salt). You clean the ingredient you want to pickle and rub the masala all over it. In case of peppers, I would remove the stalks from all the peppers, process half and leave the other half whole.
Then you heat oil (preferably canola or peanut oil) just until its smoking pt. Let it cool come to room temp and then pour the oil on the peppers till they are completely covered by the oil. Store in glass jars away from direct sunlight. Shake the jar everyday, to avoid phase separation. It should be ready to eat in about a week.
I pickle cranberries this way and the pickle is awesome, tart and spicy and they keep forever without refrigeration. In India the most commonly used ingredient is green mango (kairi).
rikyrah
DA PHUQ??!?!?
Marco Rubio on Donald Trump’s White Nationalist Support: ‘It is What it Is’
9:40 am, May 29th, 2016
Florida Senator and former Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio granted a hot exclusive interview to CNN’s Jake Tapper, revealing on Sunday morning’s State of the Union that he would be releasing his delegates to the Republican convention, casting his tepid support for Donald Trump as a lesser evil than voting for Hillary Clinton, and reflecting on his own failed campaign. Tapper repeatedly pressed Rubio on some of the more disturbing aspects of Trump’s candidacy, including the vocal support he has garnered, and at times reciprocated, from white supremacists.
Rubio expressed the sort of displeasure you’d expect from someone who sat through the season two premier of Wayward Pines, but in the end, took a tautological view of Trump’s white nationalist backers:
“It is what it is”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Glidwrith: my hunch has always been that Clinton and others, probably including more than a few Republicans, thought Uncle Colin and Uncle Brent would pull Junior back from the brink after some concession from Saddam, giving them a free vote to look Tough on Terrorism. I don’t think it excuses the vote– I knew what he was by then, they should have, too.
Doug R
@Corner Stone: Will this make you feel better?
“The State department did a conference call when they released the IG report on Hillary’s emails and they clarify that Clinton did nothing illegal. Therefore, people really need to get a grip.”
https://www.facebook.com/PCTCBlog/posts/10156979932040084
A Ghost To Most
As to peppers, make poppers and freeze them.
Doug R
@Corner Stone: Rassmusen now has Hills leading.
rikyrah
Joy ReidVerified account
@JoyAnnReid
Pat Buchanan says losing the white male heroic narrative is literally causing death, and only Trump can save them:
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: Country before party!
I cannot think of a single republican that I could call a statesman at this point.
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
Distinction without a difference.
rikyrah
Pete Souza: photographing the real Barack Obama
…This is just one in a stream of vividly human and often funny photographs – released not just through White House press office, but on Flickr and Instagram – in which Souza has documented moments of the Obama administration that will never be forgotten. These photographs are precious historical documents. Critics from left and right blame the two-term presidency of this evidently intelligent and decent man for everything from the failure to close Guantánamo Bay (he’s still trying) to a continuing economic malaise that has fuelled what is shaping up to be the most extremist presidential election since 1860. Yet Souza’s photographs tell a different story – and the one that matters. Obama accomplished the impossible and made the White House an African American home for eight years…
…In a moving monochrome image, Souza showed three-year-old Clark Reynolds looking up in awe as Obama touches him on the cheek. The photograph is taken from child height and brilliantly captures a child’s-eye view of the president. We only see Obama’s hand caressing Clark’s face. Unlike the ones in all paintings and photographs of all previous presidents, it is not a white hand. How can anyone say that means nothing? Young Clark Reynolds evidently thinks it means something, and so does Souza, whose photography has perhaps become more lyrical, more poignant over Obama’s final year in office…
…In these pictures, he always seems both happy and modest in his office: a photograph of him fist-bumping a cleaner in a government building quietly captures his sense of the larger realities of inequality that will go on beyond his eight-year presidency.
Reports on Souza’s photographs tend to repeat over and over again that they show how “cool” this president is, but that word means nothing. These images tell the true story of a presidency that words have failed. After all the hate, anger, birther theories, leftist critiques, rightist critiques, and even the liberal white awe of a “cool” black dude vanishes into the babble of the past, Souza’s photographs will tell the story of a leader who was calm under fire, unfazed by office, unquenchably human, and who showed the way for all the kids who passed through his Oval Office, and millions more, to be good people, good Americans, and good citizens of the world. Will we miss the man in these pictures? Hell, yes.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: You can freeze the peppers too. Remove the stalks and put in zip lock bags.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: I forgot the simplest one of all. I freeze all unused peppers whole. Lay them out on a cookie sheet and pop into the freezer. After an hour or two, put them in freezer bags. Or better yet, use the vacuum seal bags. I pull mine out all winter long for chili and stir fry, etc.
Edit: do NOT thaw before using. I just pull the peppers out of the freezer, the seeds (if you don’t use them) come out very easily, then chop then and cook immediately.
A Ghost To Most
@rikyrah:
Not gittin in the KKKlown Hall boat!
WaterGirl
@schrodinger’s cat: Great minds! I don’t even remove the stalks. I just freeze the whole pepper.
Barbara
@burnspbesq: I alluded to this. It’s hard to get an appeal of a discovery order, ever, or a decision to unseal, as this most likely is. So yeah, almost impossible. There is a possibility of something called mandamus, where the court acknowledges that this is your only remedy because of the irrevocable nature of the decision and its collateral consequences, which cannot be rectified later on appeal. But this is really unlikely, and especially if, as the judge said, most of the material is already in the public record (posted by Politico earlier this year).
burnspbesq
@Adam L Silverman:
Trust me, as an alum of the Office of Chief Counsel at IRS, i get all of that–but without an appropriation, you don’t get to have any of that fun.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq:
That is the fucking richest reply to any comment I have ever seen on BJ. That is fucking amazeballs that you have actually typed this out and hit Submit.
Distinction without a difference. Holy fuck I am choking over here. You really typed that?
smith
@A Ghost To Most: LGM has a precis.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: Green chilli chutney
Blend peppers, ginger, garlic and cilantro, with enough water to make a thick paste. Will keep in glass jar in the fridge for at least a couple of weeks. If you have excess freeze it. You can use this in marinades and while cooking almost anything from veggies to meat.
* You can add mint to this mix for a slightly different flavor in addition to or instead of the cilantro.
A Ghost To Most
@WaterGirl:
Thanks, both, for this tip. Never knew you could do this.
schrodinger's cat
@WaterGirl: They keep better, usually the peppers start rotting from the stalk. Also the stalk dilutes the flavor.
? Martin
@Mike J: Did not expect that result. Brilliant strategy.
A Ghost To Most
@smith:
Ah, that’s better. Thanks. Off to read the rest.
redshirt
I haven’t read the thread but let me angrily correct long time BJ commentator Corner Stone…..
Villago Delenda Est
It’s “DC Press Corpse”.
And wipe them out. All of them.
WaterGirl
@schrodinger’s cat: Interesting! I have not had a problem with my stems rotting or even getting soft in the freezer. But say more, please, about the stalk diluting the flavor.
Or maybe you mean stalk as the stem plus the pepper insides? Still, would love to hear more about how it dilutes the flavor with freezing.
Bailey
@Adam L Silverman:
And yet the IG report has laid out facts contrary to what you are saying. In fact, the IG report states that Clinton did not adhere to the policies in place while she was SoS, not after. And clearly highlights the reason why she was in non-compliance.
It also says that while Colin Powell certainly used a private email account, he did not have the server at his sole discretion in his own house.
President Trump would be the worst thing imaginable, but I’m unclear as to why so many democrats want to wave their hands away at the fact that Hillary Clinton straight up lied in dozens of press interviews over the past year. There is no other word to call it other than a lie. She might have well as told me that she didn’t have sexual relations with that woman, the lie is so blatant. She definitely has my vote in November but it’s pretty clear that I’m now forced to vote for the second coming of President Nixon in order to avoid the human dumpster fire that is Trump.
Corner Stone
How in the hell does your 4 yr old fall into a gorilla area at the zoo?
The Lodger
@Corner Stone Baud!/Duck Mango 2016!
You’re welcome.
Corner Stone
@Bailey:
Thank you!
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
And you havent said a single thing to suggest that I’m wromg about that. Because you can’t. I’m right, and we both know if. So kindly fuck off.
Amaranthine RBG
Just curious here, if the FBI does decide to indict Clinton, what defense will the Clintonites advance? 1) previous SoS’s did it too?, 2) this is just a partisan witch hunt by the FBI?, 3) don’t matter none, still better than Bernie or Trump?
Corner Stone
@The Lodger: Thank you. I was really pretty sad that everyone just flat ignored my declaration of finding the greatest name ever. Duck Mango.
D58826
@Barbara: Not sure if this is a direct response but here goes.
One of the things I have found frustrating with the Clinton ‘scandals’ is if you ask for enough paper, email, financial records, paid traffic tickets etc, you are bound to find some missing. The reason why we know that it took two years to find the Rose law firm records is because of a succession of subpoenas. Does any one have any idea of how many documents are missing from John Ashcroft’s private practice. Or Condi’s days at the National security council/state? But since it’s a Clinton any mislaid document must be hiding something.
I’m a packrat for e-mails at the office. About 4 months ago I received a couple from the techies about upgrading my version of Adobe. It was free so I said yes. Turns out it added a couple of feature to outlook that would be useful for the rest of the team. When I went to look for the original e-mails I can’t find them. Stuff gets lost.
schrodinger's cat
@WaterGirl: Removing the stalks is my mother’s tip. The peppers I like are the tiny Thai peppers, which are super hot so you don’t end up using a whole lot. Stalks are not as hot, so if you are using them when you make chutneys etc, that’s going to dilute the flavor.
burnspbesq
@Bailey:
You explained it yourself. Are you too damn stupid to understand your own writing?
Mike J
@? Martin: A lot of luck too. Red Bull are actually fast on a short twisty course. Canada is going to be a different beast.
Bad pit for Ricardo, Hamilton lost 13 at the start due to his teammate. Equal share of bad luck, I was just happy with how it finally played out.
Major Major Major Major
@rikyrah: I love Souza. Thanks for the link.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: I’m wrong because, “distinction without a difference” ? If you, of all people at BJ, do not see the deliciousness of this specific response coming from you then I don’t know what else to do. All of the universe has died and we can only wait for the inevitable entropy to consume us all.
Chyron HR
@Bailey:
When Messiah repeatedly said that Clinton called him “quote unqualified unquote”, was that a lie, since it never happened?
D58826
@Corner Stone:
. Maybe to avoid a Senate fillibuster?
hovercraft
@Amaranthine RBG:
I’m not a lawyer but from what I’ve read there has to intent to make the classified information vulnerable. The fact that her server was attacked but never successfully hacked indicates that there were measures to protect the system. Plus no classified info at the time and states was hacked.
Emma
@Amaranthine RBG: If they decide to indict Clinton they will face some very skilled lawyers asking tons of very pointed questions about how it is possible for Hillary to commit a crime that wasn’t a crime. They will summon all relevant documents from Rice’s and Powell’s tenures in the State department. They won’t be able to get away with mealy mouthed little vague “she should have known better” bullshit.
Discovery’s going to be a blast.
Corner Stone
@D58826:
I guess that makes some sense. Comey was the most qualified person available at the time that could probably pass a Senate hearing?
WaterGirl
@schrodinger’s cat: Does stalk = stem? I would never eat the stem. still slightly confused…
Chyron HR
@Amaranthine RBG:
Just curious here, if the FBI doesn’t indict Clinton, to whom will you be texting death threats?
dp
@Baud: Alain, this site needs a like button!
D58826
@Emma: But to answer the political question – if there is an indictment then she has to step aside as the nominee. We saw the toll in time and distraction that the Star Court chamber investigation of Bill took on the WH. Hillary would not be able to campaign 100% of the time. The only story on the news would be the indictment. And if she was elected, the GOP would start the impeachment process on Jan 21st 2017.
Since Bernie was the runner up in the primary then he is the logical choice to step in. His supporters have certainly been pushing for an indictment.
schrodinger's cat
@WaterGirl: Yes stalk and stem are the same.
D58826
@Corner Stone: I don’t know who else was on the short list. According to the wiki article
And Benghazi would have been a kiss of death for that nominee
Major Major Major Major
@Chyron HR: I believe persona non grata of the week is Barney Frank.
Villago Delenda Est
@dp: Our gracious blog host LOATHES like buttons. I can see both sides of the argument here, but our gracious blog host has veto power over everything, as he is, after all, our gracious blog host!
Villago Delenda Est
@Major Major Major Major: Yes, Barney Frank is clearly in the tank for Wall Street. This is known.
WaterGirl
@schrodinger’s cat: Okay, I think I’ve got it at last! Not in a million years would iI have thought about eating the stem of a pepper. I freeze them whole and cut the stem off before using. Funny how assumptions (no one would ever eat the stem!) can confuse communication. thanks
Aqualad08
@Corner Stone:
Depends. Is the smoke coming from a fire or is it billowing out from bunch of idiots armed with an endless supply of extinguishers? Your concern trolling is appreciated, though… especially in regards to “Blowjobgate” which, and correct me if I’m wrong, Hillary Clinton wasn’t involved with in the slightest…
Bailey
@burnspbesq:
I am not so damned stupid to know that the Democratic nominee for President has been lying her ass off on television over the past year. Maybe as a voter that turns you on. Sure does nothing for me.
Emma
@D58826: Maybe we should stop being such delicate little flowers and push back the same way the Tea Partiers did when they took over the Republican party, and support our candidate to the max. Oh, wait, no. The finger wagging uncle is waiting on the sidelines to step in and save the day by ushering the great Trump presidency.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Very Sincere Concern Troll is Sincerely Concerned.
JMG
While in theory, indictments occur when prosecutors believe there is substantial evidence of a crime, in reality we all know that indictments usually occur when prosecutors are damn sure they can get a guilty verdict. I must believe this is true times 10 million in what would be the most politically charged criminal case in US history. President Trump + subsequent Clinton acquittal would be the end of the careers of every person on the prosecution side, starting with the FBI director himself.
Amaranthine RBG
@hovercraft: I’m not an expert either but I thought that one could be charged simply for making classified information unsecure or storing it in an unsecure location.
Again, just my understanding. But there could also be distinction in practice between what is charged and what is not charged depending on the level of harm.
schrodinger's cat
@WaterGirl: Commercial producers of cayenne, grind the whole pepper, stalk and all to increase the bulk.
Chyron HR
@Bailey:
B-b-but the great one says that he hasn’t lost yet. Why are you spreading vile disinformation about the bitch Hillary being the nominee?
? Martin
I would point out a major disparity between how we talk about public workers and private ones which needs to be broadly addressed.
In this situation we are discussing one individual’s performance without a comparable discussion of the institutional policies, their reasonableness, and the capability of execution. That doesn’t happen with private sector workers. In a comparable situation in the private sector, the discussion would be almost *entirely* about the institutional policies and their capability of execution. Only once that has been done and demonstrated to be adequate would attention turn to the individual.
Just to pick an example at random, which individual was responsible for the Deepwater Horizon disaster? Was that ever viewed as a personal failure or was it always an institutional one?
I don’t raise this to absolve Clinton, but we have an assumption here that our policies are reasonable and the institution is competent, and honestly, does anyone believe that’s true with respect to federal IT? I am a strong believer in government, but government IT (at all levels) is the hottest fucking mess imaginable. What bothers me about this witch hunt (which it is, even if Clinton did something wrong because there is no comparable outrage over her predecessors doing exactly the same thing, no calls for the FBI to investigate and charge them) is that all of this energy would be SO much better invested in improving the policies that surround this issue, and once those problems were addressed, then, with the basis of what proper email handling ought to have been, then you can evaluate the context in which Clinton made that decision and determine if its right or wrong.
So not only is there no proper energy being directed into how email should be handled (it’s a fucking mess by the way and I’m of the opinion that email is unfixable in a security context, and equally of the opinion that there is no market viable alternative to it) there is no baseline against which to measure Clinton’s behavior.
Nobody would ever approach a private sector failure in this way. We would always insist on establishing the baseline first, changing process, and then measuring wrongdoing.
Amaranthine RBG
@Chyron HR: Tell me some more about these death threats I’ve been making.
I mean you aren’t just attributing vile conduct to me without any facts to back it up are you?
Surely you are not that much of a looser, are you?
Are you?
Corner Stone
@JMG:
The SCOTUS already decided 5-4 for GWB and explicitly stated that decision was not to be used as precedent. What makes you think they won’t (Comey et al) do anything they possibly can to sabotage a D run at the presidency?
Major Major Major Major
@Amaranthine RBG: *loser
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I forget now, is this Steve the gun nut who leaves his shootin’ iron by the back door of his house in suburban Maryland in case he’s gotta kill dinner in the backyard– you know, when the Piggly Wiggly is out of chicken parts–, or Steve the highly successful small business job creator who runs his highly successful job creation business on his Discover Card ?
? Martin
@Amaranthine RBG:
The problem with email is that it’s impossible to secure in transit. If I write an email and any party determines it should be classified (even at a later date), then you’re fucked the minute you send it. Worse, there is no established secure communication system for classified information other than the ancient, slow-ass State developed centralized system, that would never, ever, ever be able to keep up in a fast moving situation like 9/11. Relying on it for all your communication would be an even greater act of malpractice.
Corner Stone
@Aqualad08:
I’m just tired of it all. There’s just too much there for her not to be balls deep in a real mess. Mainly of her own making, as far as I can see. At this point I can’t in good conscious vote for her knowing that one of these scandals is going to stick to her, and bring her presidential run down smoking around all our heads.
satby
@Emma: He’s kidding.
satby
@Adam L Silverman: you didn’t ever meet our buddy Corner Stone?
Major Major Major Major
@satby: Had me for a while, though.
Emma
@satby: I figured it out later and said so. But ye gods, I am still sick and tired of our cowardice.
D58826
@Corner Stone: If the FBI releases a 1000 page report that says Hillary is innocent at the top of every page, the only thing the GOP will pick up on (and the media must cover) is the sentence half way down page 399 that says Hillary forgot to turn the coffee maker off in the break room on Dec. 23rd 2010,
Amaranthine RBG
@Major Major Major Major: Are you trying to make me delete my twitter account?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Emma: apparently the NYT rounded up its usual suspects of Nervous Dems, aka the people who think they should be part of HRC’s inner councils and don’t get their phone calls returned.
Major Major Major Major
@Amaranthine RBG: Clearly. ?
Aqualad08
@Corner Stone:
Too much? What specifically? Because if you’re that swayed by innuendo and half-truths, the GOP is waiting for you with open arms. They’ve tried to discredit HRC for the better part of three decades just so you would feel this way and come back to their apartment for a night cap. You are their greatest conquest now. Congrats. And when they drop you off at home and promise to call you tomorrow but never do, don’t forget I tried to warn you.
Chyron HR
@Amaranthine RBG:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/us/politics/bernie-sanders-supporters-nevada.html?_r=0
In b4 “I DIDN’T DO THAT I JUST APPROVED OF IT”
D58826
@? Martin: What about these end to end encryption routines that are on iPhone? Can’t they be scaled up to a state dept. level system?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@? Martin: Good points, but…
You’re not familiar with Federal procurement rules and regulations I take it?
;-)
Especially in the DoD…
:-/
Fixing Federal IT is a cakewalk compared to that.
Cheers,
Scott.
gogol's wife
@RandomMonster:
Isn’t she? I started to quote this to my husband, but decided he’d blush.
Germy Shoemangler
“One simple trick to get your case thrown out of court! Judges hate it!”
Insult the judge, then claim the judge is biased because he feels insulted.
satby
@rikyrah: that was beautiful, thanks for posting!
gogol's wife
@Adam L Silverman:
Please to adjust snark meter. CS is a Hillbot.
Amaranthine RBG
@D58826: The bright spot in all of this is that the RWNJ’s have so overhyped this all that anything short of an felony indictment will be spun (accurately) as a victory for Clinton.
If they had slow-walked this whole thing – “Gosh, mishandling of classified information and not complying with State Department guidelines could certainly be a matter of concern” then they would be positioned to use whatever develops against her.
Instead, I have read any number of posts on other sites that “Clinton explicitly ordered her staff to strip off classified markings of documents and send them from a secure system to her insecure one.” I can’t imagine that Clinton would ever do that and, even if that is what she wanted, she would not be dumb enough to leave evidence of it.
Corner Stone
@Aqualad08: Oh, come on. Nobody has that kind of smudge tacked on to them, over and over again without being guilty of freaking something. She’s like the Teflon Don at this point. Guilty AF on probably at least a half dozen counts at this point but just staying afloat because everyone in power is scared to death of the Clinton Mafia and their retribution.
Look. You can keep caping for her and all that, and I am sure that will work out great for you. But in all good conscious I just can’t anymore. I somewhat intellectually lazily dismissed the prior scandals she’s been neck deep in but this email server thing…it’s just too damn much.
Major Major Major Major
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
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@D58826: There are numerous problems with expecting the government to be capable of running a good encryption program. I’m sure Adam could elaborate.
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Major Major Major Major
OK, I’ll admit, I just wanted to see if that would go through.
Emma
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I know the Democrats aren’t ruthless enough by half, but bloody hell, there’s a place and time for heads in a bag, and this is definitely it.
Germy Shoemangler
@Corner Stone: well, for one thing…. Scalia was smothered by a sex worker hired by the Clintons. The pillow, I believe, was embroidered by Hillary: “We’ve got this covered.”
So what I’m saying is, don’t worry.
Amaranthine RBG
@Chyron HR: Oh I see, some Bernie Supporters did something bad and since I have said good things about Bernie that means I am a Bernie supporter and I, too, must have done those things,.
Do you realize what a pathetic fool you are? How you come across as an illogical mouth-breather?
I really don’t have anything to post to rebut what you are saying since you are so patently idiotic that anyone reading your posts will recognize that without anyone pointing it out. So, please proceed ….
redshirt
@Corner Stone: Ha ha! Fake trolling! Or is that real trolling?
I eagerly await Aqualad08’s angry response.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: Is there such a thing as fake trolling? Does one not become a troll when one trolls? Can one become a troll and then un-become a troll? Can one cease to troll?
tybee
@? Martin:
ah, not so. it can be at least as secure as any other encrypted data over the intratubulars would be.
ETA: i see i’ve been beaten to that point.
satby
@Germy Shoemangler: dammit, now I’m going to see that story on a rwnj FB feed in a week.
Corner Stone
@Germy Shoemangler: Close, but if it had a telltale signal I think it would be this:
“Labor omnia vincit”
DMX, can I get a ruling?
satby
@Corner Stone: I still think you hit your personal best imitating the Word Press Nazi.
satby
@Corner Stone: ahh, I wasn’t sure if it was Hollandaise sauce or KG
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Some people are serious trolls, in that they are sincerely trolling. Corner Stone here is pretend trolling as some sort of masturbatory humor. He’ll break character soon enough or even interspersed in this thread, like his posts about peppers.
I get some humor but also frustration at watching how easily so many people fall for this. It’s 2016 and you’re on the internet, people? Get web savvy!
D58826
@Amaranthine RBG:
To take your point in a slightly different direction, the RWNJ have so overhyped everything that the Clintons have done since 1992 that a lot of folks on BJ, me included, suspect that the only smoke here is from the little man behind the curtain with a smoke generator. And the RWNJ’s don’t even believe their own witch hunters. Other than the blowjob Starr admired in congressional testimony that he had nothing. A half doz. committees, several with GOP majorities have found that while mistakes were made with regard to Benghazi, Hillary didnot order the attack, she didnot order a stand down and she did not watch it on real time drone video. My sister already believes that Obama will suppress the indictment so that he can blackmail Hillary into putting him on the Supreme Court.
Corner Stone
@D58826:
Your sister needs medical attention.
D58826
@Corner Stone: When the Vince Foster hit man catches up with you, where would you like the BJ community in fond memory of flowers sent?
Bob In Portland
@Chyron HR: That was reported in the press at the time. She didn’t say Sanders was unqualified outright. She kind of hinted wink wink in her Clintonian way. A little hissy over nothing.
You qualify for President if you get the most electoral votes. That’s what qualifies anyone for President.
Corner Stone
@D58826:
On that day I will finally be able to look the true love of my life in her eyes and say, “It’s always been you, Hilz. Thank y- ggggkkkccchhhh…”
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: @Corner Stone: Is your sister in California? That’s probably good enough to get her 51/50’d.
D58826
@Major Major Major Major: was just curious. I’m still more comfortable with my rotary dial phone and quill pen than I am with these new fangled gizmos
Dmbeaster
@burnspbesq: I am a trial lawyer with appellate experience, and the order is not appellable. You can seek a discretionary review which is rarely granted, and review would almost certainly be abuse of discretion. Plus secrecy in public litigation is largely against public policy, and I cannot think of a grounds that would support secrecy here. The most typical one is business trade secret or some other right to privacy that outweighs the default policy of open forums. None would seem to apply to a defunct business operation.
grumpy realist
@smith: When I was working at NASDA (Japanese space agency) in the early 90s we were still using PUNCH CARDS.
(I showed them how to access publicly available satellite data via telnet and they thought me a wizard.)
Bailey
@Chyron HR:
Okay, well, you can ignore the issue at hand by making snide off-hand arguments that I’m not making if you want. It doesn’t change the fact that HRC has been on a lying tear this past year.
Full disclosure: I voted for Sanders in the primary. He will not be the nominee. HRC, absent a lightning strike, will the Democratic nominee. And I would never think to call her a “bitch” and I’m seriously wondering why you have.
D58826
@Major Major Major Major: sad thing is she and her hubby are career military. He was a major flying CH46’s and she has a master degree in nursing and ran the San Diego CCU at one point. They both believe Rush walks on water.
Amaranthine RBG
@D58826: I am, for the time being, back in West by God Virginia about 150 miles south of the Cole compound … and, your sister would have fit in just fine at the memorial day barbecue I attended yesterday.
My favorite theory is that Trump/Clinton are “in cahoots”, that nobody is going to get a majority in the electoral college, Ryan will put the fix in the house, and Obama will use this as an excuse to declare Martial Law and stay in office. One person said that but there were plenty of nods around the table.
I haven’t spent much time here in the past few years – I live out in SF – and holy, moly it is a different world.
Corner Stone
“I’m bleeding out here, baby. Little help?”
scav
Need to come up with a list of all the Oddly Shady Deals from the Oddly Shaded One. I’m rather liking the phrase just another Con from Don. “Don! Don! What’s the Con? We can’t wait until you’re gone” is a little weak but works better as a march. Maybe the next bout of weeding will prove inspirational.
RSP
@Bailey:
It’s called snark cupcake. Do try to keep up.
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: It’s hard to do an end-to-end encryption scheme in private enterprise. If you want security equivalent to “somebody you know handing you a sealed paper document and speaking a passphrase”, which is literally the security level you sometimes need in these matters, it’s even harder. I can’t even imagine trying to do that somewhere as big as State and with congressional shenanigans and unions to deal with. Shudder
D58826
@Amaranthine RBG: sound like a bunch of Alex Jones fans
Corner Stone
@Bailey:
Fixed that for you.
Bailey
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ah yes. It’s that guy who pretty much only has this to say. No facts, no arguments, just constantly noting the level of concern trolling.
Meanwhile, HRC’s year long comments are in direct opposition to what the IG report showed. It clearly doesn’t concern you that the Democratic nominee has issues of such obsessive privacy and fear of enemies both known and unknown that she places herself above the rules and then lies, making sure that the cover up is even worse than the crime. You’ll like our new President Nixon, is my guess. Me? I’d hope for better.
Baud
@burnspbesq: @Barbara:
It’s possible permission to appeal will be denied, but since you can’t unrelease information, I think that they’ll delay release until appeals are finalized.
RSP
@Bailey:
He’s been a long time commenter who’s had to deal with idiotic concern trolling arguments like yours before. Who the hell are you. Never seen you around here before.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Ron Popeil bought a house on Block Island with the money he made off the cliché-o-metic.
karen marie
@Corner Stone: So you’re going to give them what they want? Apparently, for you, they’ve thrown enough shit at the wall. For me, there has to be a whole lot more. In fact, given their track record to date, I don’t even believe they’re throwing shit – more like a hail of sodden, used teabags.
lollipopguild
@Corner Stone: Beef Jerky, Dash Riprock, and Biff Hardtack were already taken.
Baud
@Bailey:
Can you provide an example?
JMG
@Corner Stone: Because the decision in this case would be by a jury, not a panel of judges.Not only that, but a jury of DC registered voters.
lollipopguild
@Amaranthine RBG: He still has to take everyone’s guns and his wife has to force everyone to eat a healthy meal.
Michael
@Baud: Mr. Trump probably can’t appeal this court order. In most cases of this sort, an appeal of a court order can only be made at the conclusion of the trial.
It would be interesting to see would happen if he simply refused to turn over the documents.
Corner Stone
@JMG:
The decision is irrelevant, only the charge or leaked info matters.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruckus: I am well aware. We are often our own worst enemies.
Corner Stone
@lollipopguild: I think Duck Mango still holds its own.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bailey: OIG Report, May 2016 (with link to 83 page .pdf):
p. 5:
OMG!!11 It’s just like Iran-Contra!11 She should be sent to Gitmo, amirite!!11
(roll-eyes)
See #39, also too.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
redshirt
@Bailey: Better like who?
hueyplong
Any chance the concern trolls might stroke out over the woeful failure of a single website’s readers to have a road to Damascus moment over posts about hrc’s emails? I’ll keep reading if there is a chance.
Baud
@Michael: I thought the documents had already been turned over.
It’s possible the judge could stay his decision until the case is over. That would prevent an immediate attempt to appeal.
Troublesome Carp fka Geeno
@Corner Stone: Dude, “Duck Mango” sounds F’ing delicious. I must now create Duck Mango.
Corner Stone
@karen marie:
Listen. This is fine for you if you want to keep burying your head in the sand. I get it. That is an impulse as old as mankind and society. But for me it just rings true that she has fucked up really badly this time, and charges are most likely coming down the pipeline. It’s like when I’m trying to light my charcoal grill. I put coals in the chimney tower and light the paper underneath. Smoke starts pouring out the top and I know that pretty soon flames are going to appear and get that coal red hot. It’s the same with HRC and this email shenanny. There’s freaking smoke everywhere. And I’m pretty sure flames are going to pop up pretty soon. Do we want to have a revisit of the John Edwards situation? And doom the D party to the dustbin of history? No. Take a good look at those red hot coals and decide to start feeling the bern.
lollipopguild
@Corner Stone: Dack Rambo may sue.
karen marie
@Corner Stone:
But Hillary is untrustworthy. Sure.
Troublesome Carp fka Geeno
@Corner Stone: As much as I love all of those – I don’t think they’d work in Duck Mango.
redshirt
@karen marie: Hey karen marie: You’re being trolled. Noted long time BJ poster Corner Stone doesn’t believe anything he’s saying and is in fact saying it just to get a rise out of people, AKA “Trolling”.
Amaranthine RBG
@D58826: Maybe. For the sake of my family members who have to live with these folks, I kept my mouth shut.
I will say though, that I talked with 6 or 7 guys who served Iraq and Afghanistan at this one barbecue and I think I’ve only met one person in SF who served recently in the past few years.
I’ve been reading for years about how there are two Americas and stuff like that, but it is truly startling to see it made manifest.
At one point after the food was gone and folks were gathered around the fire-pits, one guy stood up and offered a description of one of his buddies that got killed in Vietnam. Guys went around talking about fathers and brothers (literal and figurative) they’d lost from Korea to Iraq. Most people had little stories, but a couple of fellas stood up and couldn’t say anything more than somebody’s name – they were so torn up about it. It was the most goddamn moving thing I’ve ever seen in my life.
JMG
@Corner Stone: The decision may be irrelevant to the election, but it’ll be highly relevant to the careers of everyone who brought the charge. I have to think that’ll influence the decision-making process. “You helped throw an election on a bogus charge” would not be a resume-enhancer.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Corner Stone:
You know, Joan of Arc didn’t have any smoke pouring off of her until people more powerful than her felt threatened.
Just sayin’.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Corner Stone: Couldn’t stay away from concern trolling for long, I see.
Sometimes where there’s smoke there’s fire. And sometimes there’s a smoldering pile of bullshit.
Baud
@Corner Stone:
Or is it more like a pot party, where there is also a lot of smoke, but everyone is chillin’ and having a good time?
Adam L Silverman
@Bailey: First, who ever said I was a Democrat? Or that I’ve endorsed anyone on this or any other site? I’ve repeatedly indicated that I wasn’t endorsing anyone and the only thing I care about is that everyone who is eligible to vote does so. I would add to that they should suitably inform themselves so they can vote in an intelligent and thoughtful manner.
As to the substance of your comment, here’s a question an answer from the Official State Department Briefing on the IG’s report. The question is from a reporter – Brad Klapper from the AP and the answer is from one of the two State Department moderators:
Corner Stone
@JMG: Tell that to these guys.
Bailey
@redshirt:
Better no longer exists in 2016 but Democrats who cheer this kind of behavior on now are certainly going to have a long 4-8 years defending all sorts of inappropriate, above the law, behavior. I’m just not clear why being a Democrat means actually not acknowledging the wrongness of both the action but especially the lying in the cover up. We don’t get better candidates if we continue to defend the indefensible.
redshirt
I have truly become Cassandra.
Corner Stone
@Troublesome Carp fka Geeno:
Everything goes with Duck Mango.
Major Major Major Major
@Troublesome Carp fka Geeno: @Corner Stone: There’s a restaurant around here that does a mean duck confit taco with some sort of mango(?) salsa. It’s orange, I can tell you that much.
@Amaranthine RBG: Papito, tried it?
Baud
@Bailey:
Can you provide an example?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@redshirt: Sherrod Warren? Elizabeth Kucinich?
ETA: @Baud: also, the “cui malo”, with apologies in advance if DXM is lurking
Corner Stone
@karen marie: If you want to play by GWB admin rules then that’s fine for you. Personally I do not want to become the monster we’ve all identified and fought against. If HRC is our very own GWB then can you really justify voting for her and making this election be about the similarities between HRC and GWB, and how there’s nothing so wrong we can’t justify it? Really?
Betty Cracker
@Bailey: Here’s what I think happened: Like most people her age, Clinton doesn’t have a clue how this shit works. She told her peeps she wanted to use a single device, and they made it happen. The report says whomever set Clinton’s email up (most assuredly not Clinton herself) did not ask for permission to use an outside server and that if they had, the request would have been denied. But nobody asked.
When this email brouhaha exploded courtesy of the Benghazi witch hunt, Clinton probably questioned her State staff, who, covering their own asses, likely told her “no one said we couldn’t!” and “Colin Powell used one device too,” so that’s what she’s been saying in her own defense. It shows bad judgement, possibly — she’s admitted as much. But I don’t think it shows she was out there knowingly telling bald-faced lies, especially since she was aware that the matter was being investigated.
Bailey
@Adam L Silverman:
From the exchange:
Yeah, that’s an amazing answer that surely indicates the Clinton team were playing within the established rules.
I suppose I officially don’t care if you’re a democrat or not but you’re going to bat for Clinton in such a way as to completely exonerate her when the IG report did not.
Adam L Silverman
@Amaranthine RBG: 1) The FBI doesn’t indict anyone. The Justice Department, specifically a US Attorney would do so. 2) What would they indict for? Use of private email was not, as I just provided the answer from State itself in comment 237, a violation of policy, let alone law. There’s no classifications related illegality if, during a FOIA request, material that was unclassified is reclassified at a higher level. And if she was sent classified information from others, whether they knew they were sending classified information or not, its spillage, which no one is going to prosecute her for. Unless you or anyone else can produce the portion of the Federal Criminal Code where anything she did as Secretary of State is considered to be illegal, there’s nothing to indict her on. And that’s not me knocking on you. Its the one thing no one has yet to actually articulate in all of this: exactly what Federal Criminal Statute did she violate in real time. Until someone can actually do that, there’s no there here. And it would be really nice if a reporter would ask this of someone claiming she’s done something illegal.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
If she had, I bet it would improve her standing with the techie set.
Original Lee
OT, but the thread is long enough now. WTF is the deal with the wingnut outrage over Obama’s visit to Hiroshima? My FB feed is FULL of “we don’t apologize for Hiroshima because Pearl Harbor”. The Japanese have apologized for Pearl Harbor, haven’t they? And Obama didn’t apologize for dropping the bomb. I am sorely puzzled.
Patricia Kayden
@Corner Stone: Really? So you’re ok with a Trump presidency because Secretary Clinton used the wrong email server? Really? I can’t even be bothered to argue how ridiculous your position is. #I’m with her.
Adam L Silverman
@D58826: Most likely. I would have preferred, however, if he was going with a senior Republican DOJ official that he’d gone with Patrick Fitzgerald or the US Attorney that Rove ran out of his appointment in NM. Those guys were at least honest and had integrity.
redshirt
@Betty Cracker: This would be an absolute non-story if it was a Republican. If it were another Democrat besides Clinton it would be a story but not a big one. But because it’s Clinton in an election year, it’s never going away.
Hell, the entirety of the Benghazi BS was a preemptive strike by Republicans against Clinton’s presidential run.
Patricia Kayden
@Original Lee: Aren’t Wingnuts always upset about President Obama? Their outrage is endless.
Baud
@Original Lee:
Really?
Capri
@Aqualad08: Actually, I think the correct phrase is: “Where there’s smoke there’s mirrors.”
Let me suggest using the extra peppers to infuse vodka. Best bloody Mary’s evah.
redshirt
@Patricia Kayden: Hey Patricia, if you can read my words, then know that Corner Stone is trolling you and you’re falling for it. Don’t engage.
rikyrah
Trying to encourage the youth :Peanut wants to make her own frozen pops.
Ingredients?
Fruit punch gatorade , ginger ale, and honey for sweetener.
They are freezing now.
No, I could not tell her anything. She was determined.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Not the most qualified, but the one the Administration could sell to Senate Democrats because he stopped VP Cheney from steamrolling AG Ashcroft in the hospital. Which we know about, of course, because Comey himself leaked the story to show what a stand up guy he was. If President Obama had to go with a Republican former DOJ official it should have been Fitzgerald or David Iglesias.
Baud
@redshirt: Trolling or not, I’m finding his arguments persuasive.
Bailey
@Betty Cracker:
That is a nice and very generous summary.
Having said that, Nixon probably would have given the same defense of his own team, no?
And given that her responses SINCE the report have come out have not been any better, I’m not sure we can assume that it’s the whole story. She clearly didn’t want any personal information subject to FOIA. (And she wanted to make sure even official information was harder to get via FOIA as well, apparently.) It isn’t hard to imagine why should wouldn’t want Clinton Foundation communication subject to FOIA, but then again, that’s all the reason to keep her personal server personal and her work server through the .gov. And I’m certain, even if she were the most technically stupid person on the planet, someone on her team would have pointed this out to her.
I’ve been around long enough to witness how the Clintons deal with these accusations—most bullshit, but some not—and it’s the same playbook every single time. They both dig in and repeat the same line over and over and over again until it’s reveled to be either true or untrue. She got caught. Democrats should deal with that honestly, not try to make excuses for behavior that consistently shows that she thinks she’s above rules and regulations because of personal self-interest conflicts.
Dmbeaster
@D58826: The moniker “Foggy Bottom” refers to the location, which was its nickname before the State Dept was located there in 1947.
Patricia Kayden
@Bailey: In a choice between Secretary Clinton and Trump, I will choose Secretary Clinton. And I have zero qualms doing so. To hell with this email “scandal”.
Bailey
@Baud:
Besides the present one?
I’d say that Democrats twisted themselves into knots defending Bill Clinton and the Lewinsky scandal. Yes, mostly because the discovery was related to the bullshit Whitewater, but the President was fucking an intern and lying about it to the American public and Democrats of all stripes made excuses for this behavior.
Corner Stone
@Patricia Kayden:
No, of course not. Not the wrong server but an illegal one. One that was against the rules and also against the law while she was SOS. Look. This is going to bite us all right in the ass in a couple months. Why not act now, before it’s too late? This has got to stop. Thirty plus years of her reckless law breaking simply can’t be ignored any longer just for the sake of partisan gain. Yes, we may lose the PPACA and possibly have SS and Medicare cuts. But is that really worth the price of our soul? As a party and more importantly as a citizen of this great nation? I say no. A President Trump may try to work to the extremes but Leader McConnell has said that the system binds the president in some ways and he will do his best to curb the outer edge extremism of whatever President Trump may try.
I don’t know about you but I simply can’t stomach electing HRC at this point. It’s just too much and there has to be a reckoning for her flaunting the law for so long.
Bailey
@Patricia Kayden:
So will I. It doesn’t make the actions any less bone headed or her cover-up any less unseemly.
If we want better Democrats we need to push back and expect more from those we elect.
Major Major Major Major
Yesterday was too hot. Now it’s too cold. Boo.
Baud
@Bailey:
You haven’t provided an example to support your assertions with respect to the present situation.
Adam L Silverman
@gogol’s wife: I got it. I got it, several hours ago.
columbusqueen
@Corner Stone: Oh for god’s sake, take your delicate fee-fees & move to Canada. You really think Donald won’t turn the unvetted Bernie into mincemeat? Wake up.
Patricia Kayden
@redshirt: Ok. Good suggestion. We’re getting quite a few trolls now. Need to start putting some people on mute. Getting on my very last nerve.
redshirt
@Corner Stone: Will Patricia take the bait?
Tune in to find out!
Edit: Apparently not!
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Baud: Isn’t it obvious? I mean, isn’t it clear that if this continues it’s the end of the Republic? How can you sleep at night with this malfeasance and horrendous abuse of power is applauded?
(roll-eyes)
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Amaranthine RBG: One of the guys pushing those lines about stripping classification, etc is a former NSA staffer who is now a Title 10 faculty member at the Naval War College. He’s been suspended there and is under investigation, or was as I haven’t seen much new on it for a while, for sending pictures of his genitals to people via email that didn’t request pictures of his genitals. He’s part of something called the Committee of the 20 or something like that.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m still baffled by the notion he “had” to go with a former R person. Like at DoD? Like at DoT? Like Judd Gregg?
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: No. Join us.
redshirt
@columbusqueen: I’ve mentioned a half dozen times now that Corner Stone is trolling. Did you read those comments, and not believe them? Can you just not resist?
D58826
@Amaranthine RBG: I keep my mouth shut when I visit. But may have an ally – the new son-in-law and dad of the dotted on grandchild feels the bern.
That two America divide, as far as the military, really started with the end of the draft. Even with all of the ‘legal draft dodging’ in Vietnam a rich man’s son was still vulnerable to the draft. And a few went. John Kerry was one, not that you would have known it from the 2004 campaign.
redshirt
@Patricia Kayden: Corner Stone is more of an asshole than a troll, a long standing one, but today he’s decided to troll. It’s obviously ridiculously easy here for whatever reason.
Elizabelle
A new thread would be minty.
Baud
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Good Democrats accept accusations against Clinton without demanding evidence apparently.
I apologize for my heresy.
jsrtheta
@Corner Stone: Rather a silly position to take, since I have seen nothing truly serious in any of this.
Granted, the other “scandals” were pretty damned silly, too. But there’s nothing criminal alleged here, and certainly nothing indicating misuse of classified material, or dissemination of same.
This is what you’ll make your stand on?
Baud
@redshirt:
You ain’t kidding.
D58826
@Dmbeaster: I knew that it was both geographical and given that it is the State department rather appropriate.
redshirt
@jsrtheta: lol.
Is it that most people don’t read all the posts in a thread but just respond to one?
gogol's wife
@Bailey:
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCEPTION OF WHAT NIXON AND HIS TEAM DID? DO YOU? DO YOU? WERE YOU ALIVE THEN? If not, pick up a history book.
God.
redshirt
@Baud: Indeed. I think people are too nice and sincere here.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Hey, this isn’t Barcelona, where they probably have new threads on every street corner. This here’s a West Virginia blog.
Bailey
@Baud:
HRC has repeatedly said that the set up was in compliance (it wasn’t), that she did it for the convenience of not having to carry two phones (it was to keep her private email from discovery) and that it was permitted (it wasn’t, permission wasn’t obtained and would have been denied if it were.) When her use of the server/email was flagged, her team was told to never speak of it again. She has said that she had been cooperating with the review, but refused to be interviewed.
All of the statements that she has made contrary to the IG report are lies. Or untruths, if you will. I’m not going into the FBI portion of the investigation since I clearly have no knowledge of what was, or was not, designated as high security and when that designation was made.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Betty Cracker:
Almost.
The report says, in many places, that they cannot find records that someone asked or that the action was approved. Given the evident difficulty that State had in keeping track of many things, there might have been a request (or there might not), and approval might have been given (or it might not). They don’t know. There are some mentions in the IG report that “so and so was told not to ask about it again”. But we don’t know if that was just people talking or whether it was to prevent some official action that would have left a paper trail.
Paperwork like this is important, and State obviously needs a modern record-keeping system. But given what we do now know, like that private e-mail was permitted and her server wasn’t compromised, it seems like a “no harm/no foul” situation in the greater scheme of things.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@redshirt: Our Achilles heel.
gogol's wife
@redshirt:
I plead guilty to responding without reading the whole thread. Sometimes you just can’t help yourself! I know CS too well not to have realized what he was up to. But I will say, having people respond to him clarifies the issues and introduces valuable information into the thread. I don’t think it’s empty trolling like BiP or Charlotte Rampling Up.
The Thin Black Duke
@gogol’s wife: Baily has no goddamned idea how insulting it is to equate Clinton with Richard Nixon. Idiot.
Betty Cracker
@Bailey: My summary is as generous as yours is ungenerous, but in the end, both are speculation. We don’t know what she knew, but I think it’s unlikely she knowingly lied while two investigations were/are ongoing. That would be stupid, and while she may not be technically proficient, I don’t think Clinton is stupid. I do think the episode shows poor judgment, but nothing on a disqualifying scale. YMMV.
Baud
@Bailey:
Thanks. I can now investigate your claims. Since you don’t provide quotes, I’ll have to research it myself.
Adam L Silverman
@Bailey: I’m, because I actually understand how the classification system works and have used governmental email systems and can be bothered to look up when policies actually take effect, providing accurate information as answers to others people’s questions, comments, and concerns. That’s it. You still want to believe she’s a felon in waiting, knock yourself out. But if you’re going to make extraordinary claims you need extraordinary facts to validate them. I’ve provided the actual facts: 1) policy that prohibited using private email was not in place until after she left State; 2) any material that she received at the time that was unclassified, but is now being asserted to be classified because of the pre-release review resulting from the FOIA requests is not a violation of the laws pertaining to classification; it happens all the time; 3) if she received that info and it was actually supposed to be classified at the time, or was, supposedly, in the case of a newspaper report that she was sent that some part of the IG had apparently classified, but no one else knew about, this is spillage – an inadvertent accessing of classified information, which is not a crime; 4) please cite the Federal Criminal Statute’s that she has allegedly violated?
redshirt
@gogol’s wife: Corner Stone is just trolling for sport. BiP is sincere, that’s who he really is. Ramping Up or whatever his next name is 100% a troll and that’s all he’s here for. Corner Stone is just being an asshole, but that’s no surprise for him.
Adam L Silverman
@Original Lee: They think he double secret, born in Kenya, is a Muslim, apologized, but the new media won’t report on it. Also, they think he should have gone there and told the Japanese that they deserved to be nuked and it was the best thing we ever did for them because look at how well they turned out post World War II.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bailey:
You’re wrong.
Every next post in this thread from you gets more and more deranged.
Maybe you should quit digging?
Cheers,
Scott.
karen marie
@redshirt: Be that as it may, it’s useful to remind people of recent history/context.
divF
@Major Major Major Major:
80 yesterday, low 60’s today. I don’t think we’ll be getting much sympathy.
redshirt
@karen marie: In a sincere discussion, sure. But that’s not what Corner Stone is offering.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: I don’t think it was necessary, but I wasn’t advising him. Senator McConnell did move very quickly to close down his nominees for executive branch positions other than general officer appointments. There are still agencies and departments that don’t have directors almost eight years later. I think he and his team thought 1) it would signal bipartisanship and 2) it would make it through McConnell’s preemptive shut down of the nomination, advise, and consent process.
Bailey
@gogol’s wife:
Yes. Nixon’s plumbers broke into the offices of his opposition’s HQ–a pretty stupid move since Nixon was undoubtedly going to win against McGovern. Nixon did not (allegedly) authorize the break-in, but after learning of it, engaged in a cover up of his closest team. The course of this cover up included resisting requests to turn over tapes from the White House taping system (claiming executive privilege, to the degree that SCOTUS had to step in and overrule) but also it appeared that he and his team deleted some 18 minutes of conversation from the tapes. During the course of Watergate, he fired various independent investigators. Nixon later told Frost that the President couldn’t break the laws because he was above the laws. On tapes, it appears that Nixon was also probably something of an asshole, given his comments on Jews and African-Americans.
Nixon was motivated by excessive paranoia and secrecy.
I am not saying HRC is literally Nixon, but she certainly has some Nixon-like qualities. She, too, is motivated by excessive secrecy and often paranoia. She clearly feels that the rules in place were not applicable to her, probably because of that initial motivation of secrecy and paranoia given her relationship to the Clinton Foundation. She digs in and is relentless in the cover-up when clearly the best decision would be to admit that it was all a mistake and error in judgment, not hang it on the stupid idea that she just didn’t want to carry two phones. (She has assistants—she probably isn’t even carrying a single phone.) Nixon may have been Nixon because he felt like he’d been kicked around so much. Clinton has been kicked around, too. That doesn’t mean she makes good decisions; perhaps for herself but not for the country.
The Republic, Blah Blah Blah...
@Adam L Silverman: Ya know, your answer makes way too much sense and sound like ‘the truth’ about this particular subject matter…
Some of us get it… some are too f’in dumb to get it, and way too many are so busy hating Hillary that they’ll cling to any justification no matter how absurd, which is why Repubs continue to get so much mileage out of what appears to me, to be a non-issue…
I find it increasingly difficult to not hate Republican completely…
Amaranthine RBG
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks, I know all this.
The statute I’ve seen cited most is:
I suspect that you’re right – and that what happened here with the “classified” information is that it was classified only during the FOIA vetting process and had not been classified before that.
There is also a scienter requirement that I can’t imagine could be proven – esp. since Clinton said she explicitly instructed staff not to transmit classified information on the low side.
All that said, an indictment would not be clearly out of bounds given the discretion afforded in such circumstances.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: AL is working one up now, which is why I didn’t put one up. No need to bigfoot on a lazy Sunday afternoon. Though I am going to the gym around 5:30.
Tehanu
@Uncle Cosmo:
Me too. Sure, i’d love it if all Bernie’s ideas succeeded … but I prefer fantasy within the covers of novels.
Bailey
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Really? Which part of that do you want to debate? Oh, maybe that she wasn’t technically a White House intern any longer and moved over to Defense? I mean, clearly you’re not still trying to argue that he wasn’t fucking her, right? Or that he didn’t lie under oath? Or to the American public?
Adam L Silverman
@Amaranthine RBG: Its the knowingly bit. And its been established that the classification issues are the result of the FOIA review process. The DOJ will not establish a precedent of indicting candidates in the run up to an election. The minute it is done, even if its a Democratic Administration on a Democratic candidate, you’ve just created a political nuke and used it. In fact DOJ has rules against doing just that.
Groucho48
@Amaranthine RBG:
My understanding is that something like that happened but what folks “forget” to mention is that the documents involved were trivial, non-secret documents, but the headers or whatever had to be removed before the unclassified server could process them.
FlyingToaster
@Emma: That quote, of course, is from the son of the woman who brought the Pretender’s head to her husband in a shopping bag for Winterfair.
At this point, I’m thinking of calling my UK contacts to put in a wager on Trump dying of apoplexy before the election. Has anyone looked at that guy? He looks really fucking ill, and not in the “it’s the flu” kind of way.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh, I think we can dispel with the notion that s/he doesn’t know exactly what s/he’s doing
redshirt
So, to summarize, because of the troll Corner Stone, a thread about the looming Donald Trump legal case has instead 100% turned into a thread about Hillary’s emails, because that was the topic the troll chose.
There’s a lesson here if you choose to learn it.
Major Major Major Major
@divF: Fine!
I think I’ll get tacos.
Amaranthine RBG
@Adam L Silverman: Interesting. I see that pretty frequently on some other sites I visit that are frequented by current/former military.
It would be interesting to see a vector map of how these, um, theories spread …
divF
@FlyingToaster:
My theory about Scalia is that he stroked out, following a long period of multi-infarct dementia. Trump could be on such a trajectory.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bailey: Ah, you’re a graduate of the Humpty Dumpty Debate Institute, also too.
Enjoy!
Cheers,
Scott.
The Republic, Blah Blah Blah...
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, but idiots can still dream, can’t they?
As far as I can tell, Republicans are desperately trying to make even running for office as a Democrat a crime…
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
I would think it would be an ex post facto violation to charge someone based on a retroactive classification of documents.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@divF: IIRC, he had diabetes, an enlarged heart and a lot of arterial plaque? I wonder if he went to a doctor, or just got tired of being told to quit smoking (assuming he was still smoking) and to lose weight.
trnc
@Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter:
“Needs a “-gate” name…”
Trumpgate. Duh! Subsequent scandals by Don the Con will be named Trumpgate 2, Trumpgate 3, etc.
raven
I started building garden steps 2 hours before this thread began.
Baud
@Amaranthine RBG:
@Adam L Silverman:
Not sure, but this might be a problem also. Does this require a statute or executive order with respect to the documents at issue? My guess is yes.
Major Major Major Major
@raven: How’d that go?
I’ve been writing the whole time.
redshirt
@raven: Can you describe your process? I’ve built steps myself and am always interested to hear how other people do it.
Bailey
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Whatever that means. When you decide you’re actually going to refute any of my comments–particularly the one you made sure to block quote and call into question–I’ll respond. Until then, you seem mostly superfluous to the thread.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Joined. Dying for November to hurry on up and get here!
trnc
@Original Lee:
WTF is the deal with the wingnut outrage over Obama’s visit to Hiroshima?
Wingnut outrage needs no legitimate father. I heard a story about the visit on NPR a couple of days ago that had a statement from a guy who apparently knew there was no apology, but was STILL irritated about the visit said, “I don’t think we should be apologizing.”
Amir Khalid
I’m pretty sure that there will be something juicy in the Trump University documents. Something that will make it unmistakably plain that Trump was fleecing those students. It already seems all but established now that that’s really what he was doing all along.
The question for me is, will this something juicy be highlighted in the mainstream media coverage, or buried?
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Sounds like it would be.
divF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
IIRC the family didn’t request / permit an autopsy, and the cause of death was said to be “natural causes”*. My speculation was mostly snark, based on his increased irritability and the decline in the intellectual acuity of his public pronouncements over the last decade. OTOH, those may have just been a consequence of his being on the losing side of history.
* According to Wikipedia. If that is the case, the standards for death certificates in Texas must be much lower than in California. Madame Dr. divF tells stories of getting pushback from the coroner’s office for attempting to list “natural causes” for the death of 100+ y/o patients.
redshirt
@Amir Khalid: I wonder if it matters. Even if there’s something really bad in those documents, how bad would it hurt Trump at this point? Wouldn’t he still be guaranteed 40-45% of the vote regardless?
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid:
“Fuck those punks. Offer them a 10% discount if they want to withdraw in 4 hours or charge them 150% fees if they don’t reply. They are the idiots who signed up for this completely bogus course system. What else can we fuck them on?”
“And Donald Trump provided an historically fair policy that some students simply could not pay enough attention to abide to. Back to you, Chuck.”
Patricia Kayden
@Amir Khalid: Left media outlets will pounce on it so we’ll probably hear all about any juicy parts. Not sure about the MSM though.
Bailey
@Adam L Silverman:
For the record, I don’t expect there to be any criminal indictments following the FBI’s findings. I’m willing to be surprised, but I highly doubt it will come to that. Nor am I hoping that will happen.
But I am confused by some of your assertions, particularly regarding the fact that policies weren’t in place when Clinton was at state. The IG report specifically notes that while their security policies are always catching up, Clinton was in violation of even what was in place during her tenure. Every bit of reporting notes this. Beyond that, I’m pretty sure you know there’s a difference between just private email and a private server right? None of the previous SoS’s had their own server in their house so making that connection is disingenuous.)
Going further, I don’t think any of us are in the position to know, exactly, when and where all of the emails under question were tagged with “top security” clearance. Certainly some of them were classified after they were either sent or received by Clinton and that is to be expected but clearly the duration of the FBI investigation suggests that our assumptions may not tell the whole story. As I stated before, it is worth waiting to hear what they discover before pronouncing one way or the other.
Her violation of a Federal Statute is not in question here. (At least the facts as we know them; I have no idea if top secret communications were exchanged which may violate a statute.) Suggesting that a Federal Statute violation is the standard by which we must judge Clinton’s obvious violations of the “rules” (not statutes) and then dishonestly representing that violation is a misdirection in the controversy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/us/politics/state-department-hillary-clinton-emails.html
D58826
@Adam L Silverman: You answered my question. Aside from what seems to be the reasonable opinion that there is nothing to indict her for I’ve been wondering if the length of time the investigation is taking tells us anything. If this was May 2014 then the investigation takes as long as it takes, but this isn’t 2014. To hand down an indictment now would blow the Nov. election sky high. And since it will be impossible to keep a potential indictment a secret for long, even releasing it after the Nov. election will cause a political firestorm. If Hillary wins and there is probably cause for an indictment thew GOP will be in impeachment mode before the last vote is counted.
So it seems to me, in my non-lawyer way, that if there was anything there, the FBI and DOJ would have gone to the President long before this and he would have helped nudge Hillary into retirement.
raven
@redshirt: I used old 6×6 timbers that held up our old porch. This best describes it although I only went 2 ft wide on the timbers. If you don’t have a 1/2 drill driving those screws is a bitch. I drilled pilot holes and then used beeswax on the tips.
D58826
@Bailey:
I believe the lawyers refer to this as assuming fact not in evidence.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bailey: The Clenis hasn’t been spotted in the wild in nearly 20 years. Best of luck with the search!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Amaranthine RBG:
When I was in the navy I knew a sargent in the Marines, a squad leader in Vietnam. He could no longer deal with sending his people, who were also his friends up hills in the face of overwhelming machine gun fire, knowing it was a death sentence. He said this especially knowing that when enough people had died and they had taken the hill, it would be abandoned to move on to the next hill. But the north would just come back and start the entire mess all over and they would be back on the old hill to see more people die for a hill that would be abandoned as soon as enough more people died for it. Notice a pattern? Young men (at the time of course it was almost all men dying in Vietnam) die for absolutely nothing. They didn’t die for their country, they died for stupidity. It isn’t supposed to be this way. These guys died because someone above them was an idiot. And my friend was complicit in that, because he had no choice. But he sure as hell was not going to talk about that to anyone who might not understand. So he held it in. I lost track of him and have no idea what his life has become. I hope he at least had a life to live. But he will go to his grave with that knowledge and that pain.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: I love that she wanted the honey in there, because the fruit punch gatorade and the ginger ale just weren’t sweet enough! :-) That’s too funny. How old is she again?
Emma
@FlyingToaster: My favorite heroine. And absolutely on point about time and place.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: I think Colbert got it right. As soon as the report was released he said something like:
The report showed that Hillary violated rules and regulations by having her own email server, so the people who believe she did something wrong feel validated by the report.
The report also showed that several other secretaries of state before her also violated rules and regulations with email, so the people who think this is a nothing burger feel validated by the report.
End result: The report changed nothing.
Editorial comment by WaterGirl: People believe what they believe. Talking about the email server stuff is a total waste of time.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Provide a sourced quote from Hillary Clinton about the email server followed by a direct quote from the IG’s report that disproves her quote. Asserting that you “know” she lied with absolutely no sources or links means jack shit.
redshirt
@raven: Heh. I’ve been working in stone for so long it took me a moment to figure out what the wood was for.
raven
@Ruckus: Read this if you care to.
Bailey
@D58826:
I think I’ve been pretty clear in stating that 1.) None of my comments are in reference to any email that may or may not be classified as “Top Secret”. In fact, that whole discussion is beyond the scope of the IG report 2.) I doubt she’ll be indicted by the FBI’s forthcoming report. 3.) Reporting has suggested that some emails were re-classified after they had been either sent/received. I’m not saying anything that hasn’t been reported.
raven
@redshirt:The dumb thing is that we have TONS of granite all over that we have yet to relocate after our addition nightmare.
Ruckus
@Original Lee:
I got in a discussion about this yesterday. It boggles the mind the absolute stupidity of some people. How do they manage to dress and feed themselves? One particular idiot was asked by someone else when and in what branch he served. Just to try and bring the conversation back to some where near reality. He never answered in the entire post of about 100 comments. All the while the people who had served all kept telling him, first it was not Memorial Day, second the president did not apologize but none of it worked as it’s difficult to educate an adult moron, especially one who likes being a moron.
Original Lee
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Honestly, that’s what I thought would happen, too. Didn’t realize Cheney was calculating on using Blackwater to strip the GDP of several states from the federal government.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Bailey: Actually having the sever in her house made it MORE secure physically. The house has 24/7 Secret Service protection.
raven
@Amaranthine RBG: We have a local Vietnam Vets outfit here that I have been a member of for 30+ years. We have an annual Memorial Weekend Campout on a plot of land we bought. It’s pretty much a drinking weekend and, since I’ve been sober for years, I just go out for a few hours to touch base. Nearly everyone there is a right winger and a large percentage are Trumpers. They laugh at me because I’m a liberal and I laugh at them because they are a bunch of dopes. It’s great.
redshirt
@raven: I hope you get to it eventually. It’s too good a material to just let sit around. Unless it already adds to the look you’re going for.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/friday-must-reads-clinton-email-fallout-694118467903
There are a whole string of Clinton media appearances saying that the practice “was allowed.” It was not. I am not a reporter so I will not quote the IG report itself but instead the reporting of IG report. Really, that’s something that anyone should be doing.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-misstates-key-facts-in-email-server-case/
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Still waiting for your sourced quote from Clinton followed by a direct quote from the IG’s report.
Given that the New York Times is the outlet that ginned up this entire story in the first place and has already been caught misreporting it several times, just like they did with Whitewater and Wen Ho Lee, referring to their story on this matter as proof of your claims is like defending the invasion of Iraq by pointing to Judy Miller’s reporting about “Curveball.”
Bailey
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Stop.
The security of a server doesn’t depend on armed guards standing outside the door. Regardless, no where in the State department’s guidelines does it suggest it’s okay for the SoS to ignore regulations if her husband is a former president with Secret Service protection.
raven
@redshirt: We’ll get it. I bought 100 pickup loads from a neighbor that had it left from a big job. We built walls and walkways and they’ll be rebuilt when the princess figures out where it all goes.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Still waiting for your sourced quote from Clinton followed by a direct quote from the IG’s report.
You can hit Google just as well as I can. There is zero shortage or reporting out there saying the exact same thing. Believe what you want, I don’t care. But reporting has all pulled out pertinent parts of the report and shown how Clinton’s words do not match what the investigation found.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Wait, your trustworthy sources on this are the New York Times and Republican talk show host Joe Scarborough?
Jesus fuck, why not just save us all time and go straight to Limbaugh and the Washington Times so we know not to engage a conservative troll?
Goodbye, idiot.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Are you suggesting that the video clips contained from the MSNBC show are somehow NOT Hillary Clinton? Or that they are taking her statements out of context? You can ignore their commentary, I don’t care, but you wanted to see video evidence of her statements and they are there.
D58826
@Bailey:
That looks like a pretty straight forward declarative sentence.
Well it has been widely reported that they were classified as a result of the FOIA request. Are you saying that they were reclassified prior to that and at a time that they were on Clinton server and she had notice of that reclassification? . First I’ve heard that one. Any media source you can link to. I’m not sure if it makes any legal difference either way.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Sorry, I can’t pass this up:
AH-HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
Christ, what an asshole. It’s like Gene Lyons never even existed in your universe.
D58826
A small step forward for our side
The lede on huffingtron
satby
@Bailey: you stop. You’ve been corrected multiple times. We get it, you don’t like Hillary. Fine. But just stop about the emailgahzi. That horse is long dead. And until you’re just as outraged over Powell and Rice doing the same thing STFU.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Okay, in that case, every single mainstream news outlet is Gene Lyons. If you weren’t so afraid of Googling for yourself you’d see that the all the reporting is quite consistent.
If you don’t like the NYTimes of CBS already cited, here is NBC News:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/clinton-broke-federal-rules-email-server-audit-finds-n580131
Here is the AP Factcheck:
http://bigstory.ap.org/8aef31c43c364ac88975517da0e9c497
Bailey
@D58826:
No, I’ve been very clear in saying that I don’t know either way. How could I? I can only go by reporting which has said that classifications have changed. Whether ALL of them did as a result of FOIA–or any other reason–has not been comprehensively clarified. I suspect the FBI investigation will finalize that.
Either way, the FBI investigation into the top secret emails is wholly separate from the IG report.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Republican operatives taking Clinton’s statements out of context? Perish the thought! As we have all learned from 1992 forward, everything that conservative media outlets report about Democrats is always honest and aboveboard and they never, ever make shit up. That’s how we know John Kerry is a coward who wounded himself to get a fake Purple Heart and Barack Obama forged his long-form birth certificate to cover up the fact that he was born in Kenya.
I mean, it’s not like former US Representative Joe Scarborough, Republican, would have any motive to lie about Democrats, right?
I’m assuming that you’re a troll since it frightens me to think that there is anyone out there who actually thinks that JOE FUCKING SCARBOROUGH is a reliable source of anything other than how to leave dead interns in a campaign office.
Again, good day, sir.
redshirt
@raven: Impressive. That’s a lot of stone.
Baud
@Bailey: Thanks for the AP factcheck. I’m satisfied the concerns you raised about Clinton are overblown.
Bailey
@satby:
The horse is long dead? The report just came out this week. Sorry, but the horse is up and running. Deal with it. And if you haven’t understood by now that what Powell and Rice did was actually quite different, I can’t help you. Perhaps you aren’t at all technically savvy, I don’t know.
Original Lee
@Baud: Yes, really. There are so many other things to be outraged about, and many of the people posting about this are not the usual anti-Obama folks.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Corner Stone: Is corner stain trolling us now?
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
You asked to see Clinton’s actual quotes, on video. They are there. Those are her quotes from various media outlets on the record. Shoot the messenger, I don’t care, but those are things she said, out loud and unprompted, to the press.
Ruckus
@raven:
We’ve had this discussion before. You understand. I think I do.
Thanks.
Original Lee
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, that makes sense (the “they should be glad they were nuked” part). It hadn’t occurred to me that the Japanese were showing insufficient gratitude for being the first recipients of a deliberate nuclear bomb.
raven
@Ruckus: roger
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bailey: See #222 above. That answers your claim that it wasn’t “allowed”.
Relatedly, Chicago Tribune:
Rest your pretty little head now, OK? It’s all going to be Ok! There’s nothing to worry about!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
I don’t think that will sway the fears that this fine commentator has laid out so poorly.
Bailey
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
This tells me that you have conflated the IG Report (which is in regards to government protocol when setting up email communication and the “rules”, not laws, that govern that) with the forthcoming FBI report which is more interested in whether classified materials are mishandled.
The IG Report deals with protocol and regulations, not statutes.
Try to keep this all straight.
Original Lee
@Ruckus: I know. I cut one of these people a lot of slack because she literally had surgery to remove part of her brain that was damaged in a car accident, and her critical thinking skills have never been the same since. You can’t argue about what’s reported because EVERYBODY complains about what the media doesn’t report – it’s as if the news we know should be there has been sent to Area 51 for storage.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Bill Clinton got a blow job, it’s all about the Clenis!
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bailey: Um, #222 quotes the IG report (page 5 of the PDF). Do pay attention, please.
Cheers,
Scott.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
FIFY.
D58826
@Bailey: One more time. All of the reporting/commentary/opeds that I have seen say that the reclassification of the e-mails was prompted by the FOIA request. Before State could make the e-mails public they had to do a security review. Are you saying that there is reporting that says there was a security review of some or all of these documents independent of and prior to the FOIA. If so do you have a source a bit more specific than ‘there is reporting’. I’m not sure if it makes any difference as to Clinton’s legal liability. If the CIA was off classifying stuff at Langley and no one at Foggy Bottom knew about it then how is Clinton responsible. Did this reclassification occur while she was still S-o-S or after she left?
nutella
@Corner Stone:
OK, this is in the running for stupidest comment ever.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Bailey: You’re only paranoid if they’re not out to get you; read “The Hunting of the President”. They really are out to get her and have been for 35 years.
gogol's wife
@Mnemosyne:
Did you see the NYTimes story about the H cast playing softball in Central Park? I had it to link for you yesterday but you weren’t around. LMM doesn’t play, though.
Smiling Mortician
@Bailey:
Thanks for the diagnosis there, Doctor Frist.
redshirt
@nutella: It never ends, does it. Amazing.
Tilda Swinton's Bad Cap
I once knew a Labrador named Bailey. It would poop indoors sometimes.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Tilda Swinton’s Bad Cap: The Bailey I knew was a Springer Spaniel; sweet little thing but dumb. Got hit by a car. It was sad.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Bailey: Actually it does, the first rule of security is physical security(there are many more after that). This is why they have controlled entry on server rooms.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think it’s more likely that she thought it was going to be a success along the lines of GHWB’s war with Iraq, and anyone who voted against going in was going to get politically creamed after Mission Accomplished. Bill was just as positive about going in as she was–I recall he was involved in trying to get other world leaders on board.
I think it’s a genuine stain on Clinton’s record, and Obama’s opposition to the war was a major point in his favor in 2008. But Obama also seemed savvy and interested about foreign policy in general, and, in my opinion, Bernie Sanders does not. He uses Iraq like an isolated talisman against criticism on foreign policy, just as the word “superpredators” is somehow supposed to neutralize all of Hillary Clinton’s African-American support. Whether this is enough to support Clinton over Sanders–that is a judgment call that could legitimately go either way, I think. It goes without saying that Donald Trump and all the other Republican candidates are in a whole other universe of idiocy compared to either one.
Applejinx
Ah, this thread XD
Please don’t hurt each other? We need all of you very old people even if you’re a bit confused, to vote for Hillary and defeat Trump. I beg of you stop fighting!
You can’t vote for Hillary if you’re dead of outrage! (unless you are in Chicago, of course)
Applejinx +47 (years, not drinks)
? Martin
@D58826: You can’t end-to-end encrypt email because the addressing layer must be public because email cannot be directly routed. You an encrypt the body, but classified communication typically also requires ensuring that the parties are not acknowledged of having communicated at all.
Email is designed to be open – that’s why spam is even a thing. Now, you can have email-like internal communication systems that are encrypted but that layer needs to either be owned by the feds (see federal IT decision making & procurement) or it needs to be trusted through a 3rd party and there needs to be a gateway for people outside of the organization. Unlike many other government parties, the whole point of the state department is that they communicate extensively with people outside of the US government (that is their primary mission, in fact), and inviting them inside of the internal system isn’t acceptable.
Classifying state is just a fucking nightmare even in the best of circumstances, and with insufficient IT, even moreso. And to be clear, some of the government failing isn’t entirely in their control. RIM was a reasonably trusted secure communication partner, and they fucking imploded once the iPhone came along with no adequate substitute. The government doesn’t really have an option to fully lock down mobile devices now, and those devices are advancing so rapidly that staying on top of that need is nearly impossible. They would need to contract with Apple (as the only US company in the mobile space) to build a secure device in parallel to their traditional one. They may or may not be open to that, no matter how much money the feds would throw at them.
? Martin
@Mike J: I think Hamilton had it. The benefit of Monaco is that you can be significantly slower and still hold position, so jumping from wet to dry is feasible so long as you are quick enough, and he was obviously nursing those ultrasofts so that late in the race he could open a gap if need be. Just a perfectly managed race. Quite a good redemption from last year.
Mnemosyne
@Applejinx:
You’ve gotta admit, someone claiming that we know Hillary is a serial liar because she lied about Bill’s blowjob is kind of lacking in logic. And common sense. And an understanding of how human beings actually think and act.
Van Buren
@redshirt: there is no difference between the American media and the BJ crowd?
Jack the Second
@Bailey:
Like winning a major party nomination?
Jack the Second
@Matt McIrvin: If you need to come up with an excuse for Hillary Clinton’s Iraq vote, there is the whole “Bush et al lied” thing. You know, how GW Bush claimed on national TV to have proof that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction and would imminently obtain them if we did not intervene? And how, after we invaded them we found absolutely no evidence of this and later learned that it was just a willful fabrication on the part of the President?
I mean, it’s fine to be opposed to war in all cases, and Obama’s handling of Iran has shown that we can do things besides invade a country when we suspect them of developing nuclear weapons. But if GW Bush hadn’t lied and we had found weapons of massed destruction, or the makings of them, voting to invade Iraq would look a lot less foolish.
redshirt
@Van Buren: Not much, if you average it out.
SFAW
Bailey:
What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Is it your hope that
(A) Hillary will be shown to be a liar and has committed criminal acts, and she should therefore withdraw her name, and let Bernie have the nomination? Or
(B) that she should have a press conference, wherein she states “Mea maxima culpa, but I’m hoping you will still vote for me anyway”? Or
(C) that we all reach the same conclusion that you already have, that Hillary did “stuff that she shouldn’t have,” and we should all acknowledge how right you are, and then you’ll be happy?
I’m guessing it’s (A).
If it’s anything other than (A), then a person less patient than I might suggest that you give it a fucking rest — in this thread, and others. Not doing so would be indicative of trolling, or concern trolling, and that you have no real interest in anything other than trashing Hillary.
? Martin
@Jack the Second: Well, the UN was out there yelling that Iraq didn’t have those weapons, so I’m not willing to give Clinton that particular pass (and I’m a Clinton supporter).
She’s more hawkish than I would prefer – I think she embraces a slightly regressive view of America’s role in the world as compared to Obama. I do not think she is Kissinger-like, as many Sanders like to paint her. She’s not a neocon. She, like all politicians including Obama, is opportunistic, and I think the Iraq vote was one where she was inclined to be opportunistic (where Obama was not, but has been on other issues).
Understand that in politics its impossible to distinguish between a principled vote and an opportunistic vote when the vote is not close. Iraq was not close. It was too big of a vote to not be principled on, but for all we know Obama was opportunistic toward the dovish side of the party and Clinton was principled, or the reverse, or any combination of the two. She has spoken repeatedly about why Iraq was a disaster, so regardless of why that vote was cast, she’s clearly demonstrated that she knows why it should have been cast in a different way. That’s about the most you can hope for in politics.
J R in WV
@schrodinger’s cat:
A good friend of mine loves the hot, and grows habaneros which he dries and keeps crushed in a special grinder. Just a few specks will fire up any dish.
I love spicy and I have to be really careful with Steve’s pepper grinders!!
Michael
@Baud: The news articles make it sound as if the ‘Trump University’ documents have yet to be released. Could it be that the standing court order refers specifically to versions of them with the personal information of students redacted? It’s been mentioned that the deadline of June 2nd was set with the intention that the delay be used for such editing.
Mr. Trump’s remarks in this matter have come very close to justifying his being charged with contempt of court. I’m thinking that his sharp tongue and defiant attitude may be his undoing.
gocart mozart
@Corner Stone:
Some constructive criticism: you’ve been brainwashed by 24 years of relentless rightwing propaganda. “Where there’s smoke there’s fire!” Bullshit! The smoke is being blown up your ass. Get a grip on yourself boy or at the very least, stop whining, shut the hell up, and stop annoying the rest of the civilized world.
Gretchen
Bailey: you still haven’t explained what you think Clinton was lying about. And you also haven’t explained why it was better for Colin Powell to be doing State Department business on a hotmail account than for Clinton to be doing it on a private server that never got hacked. Please proceed.
SFAW
@Gretchen:
You’re assuming Bailey actually meant it when he/she said he/she will still vote for Hillary. I currently see three possibilities (see #403 above) as to why he/she has such a figurative hard-on about this — but those assume he/she is sincere. I’m coming to the conclusion that he/she is just a Hillary hater, and might be a Trumpbot.
And besides: you should be able to read his/her mind re: what, if anything, he/she thinks Hillary was lying about.
Matt McIrvin
@Jack the Second: Well, you know, I supported the invasion at the time as well, but people who didn’t assure me that it was completely obvious to them that Bush was lying, so it ought to have been obvious to me or to the Clintons as well. And this is, I think, a fair point, though I also actually rather liked something Michael Moore said at the time, that citizens shouldn’t need to perform this kind of analysis on their President.
No One You Know
@Corner Stone: Wishful thinking will not make that so. If you’re determined to believe that, neither evidence to the contrary, not reason, will move you; I find the plaintive insistence that things must be are as you want them to be inarguable. Belief requires no proof, and will not be persuaded.
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
Listen: next time you post stuff like what you’ve done here, can you please either append redshirt’s (pervasive) related comments to your comment, or provide a link to The Onion? Because we’re up to the proverbial metric fucktonne of commenters who are chastising you for being the functional equivalent of a Trumpbot. And redshirt can’t keep checking back to try to put people wise.
Either that, or fax us your credenza.
Steeplejack
Well, glad I missed this thread, for the most part. Although “Duck Mango” is genius!
@No One You Know:
(Inarguable means “certain or clearly true; not open to argument, doubt or question.” I think that is the opposite of what you meant. Maybe indefensible isn’t exactly what you want, but it seems better.)
After your lecture to aimai yesterday (and Uncle Cosmo’s), I’ve been reading the blog a little closer and thought I would help you tighten up your prose. As you said: “It’s not possible to ‘just skip’ in a column; the eye catches on [errors] anyway. It’s how scanning works.”
Even by the canons of the pedants’ guild you are coming across as excessively fussy. Stones, glass houses, etc.
SFAW
@Steeplejack:
There was no verb in that sentence.
Steeplejack (phone)
@SFAW:
LOL. Touché.
SFAW
@Steeplejack (phone):
For the record: I wasn’t trying to be a dick, just trying to adopt an overly-fussy-pedant persona. (Which you appeared to have figured out.)